00:00:00 Speaker 1: Where the innovations in medical research have gone. And now how affordable that is for consumers, you know, like no different than how expensive it was to buy a PC in the eighties and now which you can buy Board's pretty crazy. I'm pumped about the medical research that's now going into this technology. You know, there were a lot of good a lot of shoulders that we stand on in terms of medical white papers and physicians and researchers of the past that paved the way for what we're able to pull from. But it's pretty incredible. Like you talk about the hunter that's going out, its being able to monitor your sleep, get an idea on things like sleep at you know, get an idea on your sleep cycles, so rem sleep, light sleep, deep sleep, things that you know a lot of folks may never even monitor before in their life. How passively that that can be the manage is pretty great. And then on top of that, you get a couple of more call it involved measurements like heart rate variability, which is just the timing between heartbeats. You're probably familiar with. The whole stress or is just about everybody in the market has some conversations address the primary parameter, if not the parameter's heart rate variability out. 00:01:10 Speaker 2: Here, the stakes are real. Effective preparation starts with fitness, but it requires so much more. This show explores the tools, knowledge, resilience, and skills needed to be ready when it matters the most. Join me Rich Browning as we apply the decades of wisdom I've gained through training and competition to hunting in the back country. This is In Pursuit, brought to you by Mouth Knocks in collaboration with Mayhem Hunt. In Pursuit Angelo to Chico, Jake Carreri nailed it only butchered it three times before that. 00:01:53 Speaker 3: Getting on here the pressure of the Cameron your official. 00:01:56 Speaker 2: Title CEO of Kayla Okayla. How long you been doing that? Oh? 00:02:00 Speaker 1: I took over not but two months ago? Actually, oh wow? 00:02:04 Speaker 2: Were you from originally back? 00:02:05 Speaker 1: Like Texas? We're in Texas, originally from Arlington. Family lives in Fort Worth now though, but Texas was Texas. Not born and raised military kid that was Air Force fighter pilot, so we were all about. I was born in South Korea, moved about a bunch and then ended up in Texas, and then I went to school up at Arkansas University, Arkansas Engineering Kansas was. 00:02:27 Speaker 3: Born in South Korea. I know he was his dad's station there for either he Yeah, I don't know if he's born there, but they lived there for a long time. 00:02:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, Soul Soul, Yeah, and to Soul Oncey're talking about going back next year. Yeah. Really, my wife's fun fact, my wife's favorite place. We've traveled, and we've traveled all over and she loved Korea for some reason. 00:02:46 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:02:46 Speaker 2: I don't know if he's like the first because I think that was my first overseas trip. 00:02:49 Speaker 4: Was really Yeah, so you back, we've been back ever were you just how old were. 00:02:55 Speaker 3: You when you moved away from there? 00:02:56 Speaker 1: Two know nothing about that. Yeah, been a lot of place places over there, you know, for different reasons, but not back to Salt. 00:03:03 Speaker 2: But you watch you liked it because the people, Yeah, it was it was clean, you know, for it was super clean. People are super nice, welcoming. 00:03:11 Speaker 1: You know it it's from my parents always said the said it was one of their favorite places. Yeah. Cool. 00:03:16 Speaker 2: All right, So Arkansas engineer what what uh? 00:03:20 Speaker 1: Lost your engineering but then got on the computer science side of it, so just kind of went in the whole tech arc of it. Yeah, but CrossFit, I said, basically, born and raised CrossFit. What you're twenty thirteen? Oh yeah, so then you. 00:03:35 Speaker 2: And Angela around the same time. 00:03:36 Speaker 3: That's about when I started. Yeah, I think November. 00:03:39 Speaker 4: Well everyone all right, yeah twenty yeah, yeah, that's a good time. He's here, thirty he was doing it for a decade with a lot of miles. 00:03:49 Speaker 2: Twenty six. 00:03:49 Speaker 1: He already got great going on. I know. 00:03:52 Speaker 3: I got grand the hair too, I got it everywhere. 00:03:54 Speaker 1: There you go, There you go. 00:03:55 Speaker 4: Stress, probably female induced. I've been on a team CrossFit team multiple years in a row, so a lot of close contact with females, talking to them every single day. 00:04:06 Speaker 3: And then uh not my wife. 00:04:08 Speaker 4: My wife is great, but like being in close contact with in close contact, I mean everyone probably gets it what I'm saying. 00:04:15 Speaker 3: So yes, no, no, and I'll just go ahead. I've been out of colin. 00:04:18 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. 00:04:19 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been there been a competition for several years in a row with women, So that's what I attested too. 00:04:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, there you go. 00:04:26 Speaker 3: So where'd you start CrossFit at? 00:04:29 Speaker 2: So? 00:04:29 Speaker 1: I started at CrossFit five forty Yeah, I'll tell you what you what was it called Uh, I think it was just the five forty workout or something. We did it like a little early days. 00:04:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was BSN when I was with BSN Supplement Company. I don't even know if they're around anymore, but they put us when we went a little tour and we went to CrossFit five forty in Arkansas. Yeah, well, year fourteen, you might have been you. 00:04:54 Speaker 1: I think you might have come just before I took because I ran. I ran an affilly down there, the south location of that gym. We had the north and the south, so I ran that for about three and a half years. Coach over there, and uh, I think you were just just shortly after it. But man, it was fun. 00:05:09 Speaker 2: It was a good time. Yeah, in the Wild West days for sure. 00:05:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, well it was great too. You know. I'm I was a little the little, little bitty regional level, but it was a heck of a way to travel as a young broke kid. Cause I said, dude, this is great. I get to go to competition in Oklahoma. You went it, get three hundred bucks hotel and was staying in some raunchy motels there. 00:05:33 Speaker 2: This night's in I think our count is traveling. 00:05:36 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, it does. 00:05:38 Speaker 2: Right off. Heck, yeah, man, I love it. 00:05:41 Speaker 3: So coach there for a while and then what where'd you go from there? 00:05:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, so coach there while I was finishing up school. So finished up, then launched my first company. Wanted to get in the tech side of things of CrossFit, a fitness of it was actually just pure tech at that point, I said, hey, this is interesting. So because my my whole background was fitness, it was a personal trainer before I coached CrossFit technic. Actually don't actually have my l one so technically never coached across fit. 00:06:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, but technicality I did. 00:06:12 Speaker 1: You know, when I was a young kid grew up, my mom was a fitness instructor, and uh so it was basically bred in the gym. I was ten and she said, hey, either you got to do summer school or you got to go with your older brother to football practice. I said, I'm just going to football practice. Yeah, so I just basically kind of hung around the gym and then it was always always about it. So then figured out personal training paid pretty well for a college kid, but then fell in love with CrossFit. You know, it just kind of became a thing. 00:06:42 Speaker 3: Watched some rich YouTube videos, said hey. 00:06:44 Speaker 1: I want to tell that. Yeah, no, those those are the good times started. But yeah, that was that was That was really it. And then you know a lot to basically my career to CrossFit and fitness world. So so you do tech? What just so then I got into tech? Yeah, you you you might have to check me on a few stories. 00:07:01 Speaker 2: I like going down the road, get it. You do a little trump weave? Yeah, that's right, it happens. Right, It's a good way to get out of a bad question. That's right, that's right. Weave it. 00:07:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So god in I said, hey, you know, I'm actually you know, what can we do with this? 00:07:16 Speaker 2: Tech? 00:07:16 Speaker 1: Is pretty cool air? You know, graduated university twenty sixteen, so it's a good time to do it. So stepped out for a bit, not long, as I'll tell you in my story here in a bit, but got into it. First company that I launched was just a little flop of an app. But then some members at my gym that I ran said hey at that time no longer ran, but they said, hey, you know what you built there, you might actually build for our businesses. So then just kind of went on and helped them out a little bit just as a consulting sort of deal, got some got my legs under me a bit and business, and then actually ended up getting connected with a fitness chain. It was a chain called Fitness One out in the Midwest, big forty thousand like Lifetime Fitness kind of facilities, and then took on as their chief technology officer, still underneath the first company that I started, but ended up building some pretty cool tech in that space. Got enough notice there that I started to speak on some panels and some conferences and stuff like that, and then one of those Nike director met me and said, hey, you know, after one of the times I spoke, he said, hey, let's chat. It slided me one of his cards, and then flew out to their headquarters and ended up working with their innovation team for seven years Nike Nike. Yeah, did a bunch of cool stuff out there, and then we had a great time. Yeah. Then anyway, so about two years ago, get a call up on the Kalo side that said, hey, we're wanting to pivot the business. We think we have an opportunity to bet on people's fingers for a decade plus, but we're really interested in this next era. You know, can you build it and say, yep, you can do it. So did that. About four months later, we launched our first smart ring, the Kalo Current Smart Ring, and that was January of last year. Then we launched our Gen two ring, the one that you and the team now have right launch that in September and then we've just been on a roller coaster since. So then I took over as see O the business of that December. It's just recent. 00:09:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I'd love to hear. So you know, obviously our our listeners are probably either hunting or getting into hunting for sure, so you know, the metrics and stuff some of them, you know, depends on the guy or girl what they're looking at. But like, what are some of the just baseline things you think are super important somebody that's just either getting into fitness or just trying to get healthy. What are some of the things that you know you track within the within the ring. 00:09:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, by the way, for somebody who's been asked so many questions, you got some good questions. Yeah, there you go. All right, couple, you should consider a career. So it's uh, you know, that's the fun part. About these the advancement in this technology, and I'll go down a little rabbit hole for a second full answer and take off. 00:09:53 Speaker 2: I think it's awesome. I'm gonna pull up the app too so I can look around on it what you're talking. 00:09:57 Speaker 1: And that where the innovations in medical research have gone. And now how affordable that is for consumers, you know, like no different than how expensive it was to buy a PC in the eighties and now which you can buy for is pretty great and what you get from it. I'm pumped about the medical research that's now going to this technology. You know, there were a lot of good, lot of shoulders that we stand on in terms of medical white papers and physicians and researchers of the past that paved the way for what we're able to pull from. But it's pretty incredible, Like you talk about the hunter that's going out, just being able to monitor your sleep, get an idea on things like sleep apnea, get an idea on your sleep cycles, so rem sleep, light sleep, deep sleep, things that you know a lot of folks may never even monitor before in their life. How passively that that can be a manage is pretty great. And then on top of that, you get a couple of more call it involved measurements like heart rate variability, which is just the timing between heartbeats. You probably familiar with the whole stress scores. Just about everybody in the market has some conversation stress stress. The primary parameter, if not the parameter, is heart rate variability. You know, you can also base it off your resting heart rate, but it's heart rate variability and that's a that's a very important metric for overall cardiovascular health. So it's pretty neat. My intention behind this product was to keep it affordable for the masses. No subscription priced ones. You pay for it, you good to go, and so you get a get a group of people that might not have otherwise really not been interested in it because you know, sometimes even I don't like wearing things on my wrists. But nice part about it is you don't have paid subscription. But it's also you know, especially fellas got to wear a ring of some sort and uh, you know that's where KLO are what we call legacy business of the silicone, which you'll see on mono. I'm obviously wearing one of our covers for the ring, right it it's it's just kind of tried and true to that. So you know, it's really sleep, heart variability, stress are the ones that you know that that folks picking it up for the first time would be most interested in and likely. 00:12:00 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you know, so I have wore whoop. We won't say that after this, but for years and I'm about I think three or four weeks of not wearing one, right yeah, And I was kind of like, it's kind of nice, and then put the ring back on it. It was this morning and I've already caught myself like, oh, you know, and it doesn't have any of my score yet because I didn't sleep in it. Now, is it similar to some of the others where you it it'll learn you as you Yeah, the longer you wear it, it kind of learns your tendencies, sleep averages, your average fitness that. 00:12:38 Speaker 1: So I call those algorithms far as I call your baseline algorithms. So it's basically like, for example, your skin temperature. What we do there is we have a baseline that after about four days, we have a good understanding of what your baseline skin temperature is. And uh, and these are the advancements that we're pushing on the research side this year. It will come out soon. Like fever detection basically that identify abnominalies especially in your too, but it needs a couple of days of training on your data to be able to do that. But that's absolutely right. Same thing with like heart rate variability. That's one of the ones that you know for the drinkers out there that you get. You know, I've had that morning where you know, you you you you feel a little woozy. Well, the metric that you'll notice after we've trained on your heart rate for a little while is, uh, it's gonna be your heart rate ariability. You'll see that show up as you know, a red zone will say hey, you know this is this is pretty low. 00:13:29 Speaker 3: It's crazy like one drink. 00:13:30 Speaker 2: One drink will do that too. 00:13:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't drank in almost three years. 00:13:33 Speaker 2: But when I you know, I would drink couple of times a year, three or four times, and I didn't do the the journal where I would put it in and you just see the next day it was crazy one drink whatever. 00:13:46 Speaker 1: Yep. But I think that's what surprises people about monitoring too. Yeah a second, that's it. Uh. 00:13:53 Speaker 4: It definitely having a fitness wearable has definitely made it made me not like more conscious of that and then like obviously I know I feel bad after I drink, but it even it exacerbated it even more, Like I just I don't want to drink if I know I have anything going on the next day. I don't even think about it, Like if I have to wake up for any reason, I'm like, I'm not having a drink. 00:14:13 Speaker 3: There's no way. Yeah, like it. 00:14:15 Speaker 4: And like you said, I drink like maybe three or four times a year, And even when I'm at like at a wedding and it's like like I'm there to have fun and party or whatever, I'm like, I don't even know if I want to drink now, Like I'm gonna feel awful tomorrow, Like I know that score is gonna be horrible, Like I just know, and it's and it's absolutely deterred me. 00:14:32 Speaker 3: So probably a good thing. 00:14:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet it's. You know, and you're still a little bit young too. You don't want to add to it. I know. 00:14:38 Speaker 3: I know. 00:14:41 Speaker 4: One thing that I wanted to add, which is I think actually a huge sell for what you're talking about, for I just fitness wearables in general, about having something that tracks tracks all the metrics you're naming. So my wife, I don't know how it comes on, but she has Graves disease. She didn't a year ago or she was. 00:15:01 Speaker 3: It's like it's. 00:15:02 Speaker 4: Hyper thyroid hyperthyroidism. 00:15:05 Speaker 2: I don't know. 00:15:06 Speaker 3: Hyperthyroid instead of hypo is slow. Yeah, I forget what it's called. Yeah. 00:15:11 Speaker 4: Anyways, ye, her what she was wearing at the time started to track it and she didn't feel any different, and she's like, this isn't right, Like I'm always waking up. My sleep scores so low. She's like, I don't understand. She and then she started to feel worse, and then her her resting her. 00:15:27 Speaker 3: It was like jacked up, like all night. She was like at one hundred or higher. 00:15:31 Speaker 4: She was obviously not right, and she went to the doctor and got tested and realized she either had Graves disease and didn't know it or developed it along the way, and she would have not known. She would have probably just like kind of she's honestly felt kind of crazy. She's like, I don't like what's happening, Like why am I messed up? Had she not had that information, it could have like continued because she went into a thyroid storm. I can't really explain what that is. It happened twice. I had to take her to the er, and it could have been worse had she not have had that. Uh So, if that's not the if that's not a way to get you to have something to track your heart rate of anything, your sleep score, all that stuff, like, it's just so important to have an idea where those metrics are at, because she would have. She basically just like, I think I'm being crazy. I don't know, but this thing's saying I'm messed up. 00:16:16 Speaker 1: So that's right, and it's just going to get better and better too. Because we even had at the Consumer Electronics Show earlier this year, FDA came out there. One of the big pushes is you know RFK has been he's been big about, uh, let's get ORFKA Junior. We've been big about let's get wearables on wrists and wearables on fingers, which has been awesome. So at a basically service that, FDA came out and said, hey, you know, you'll push it. Still don't claim medical device if it's not gone through FDA, but push the envelope, especially with AI and options here for the exact comments that you're making there just give consumers an indication that this is something you just could something you should go one hundred percent. So they basically said, hey, carp Planch, go innovate. You'll still find that line, but it's previously. You know, we do balance a fine line today between what is wellness advice and what's a medical suggestion. Yeah, and it is. It's it was. It was a pretty big barrier before. But our hope is that especially with that you the market overall too, you'll you'll be able to see many more stories just like that for your wife and finding it out early on big time. 00:17:22 Speaker 2: So it is one of your big markers HRV. Is that probably one of the Is it HRV is big heavy into the algorithm? 00:17:30 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, HIV is a big one. You know, heart rate restling, heart rate restling hard of course, you know the one stress is a basically a derivative of heart rate variability. It's one of those more what I call just kind of a higher level of attraction algorithm. 00:17:44 Speaker 2: Is HRV more personalized or fitness or is it a mix of both? 00:17:48 Speaker 1: So heart rate variability you can't like you can compare a person to person within the same age range for heart rate variability. Now, what we do is we take your learnings of your heart a variability and then judge it against your baseline. So that's when you'll start to see like red yellow greens we call optimal zones. But you can, like the two of you, well, I guess you kind of we could probably you're a little younger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we could say, hey, my heart variabilities at this my basically we so. 00:18:16 Speaker 2: It's more age based than fitness based heart veriability. But resting heart rate though, resting heart rates fitness based that's going to get you. It's just kind of been a weird it's come on in the last probably ten or fifteen years. It wasn't like, you know, when I was twenty years ago, when I was in school for exercise science wasn't a thing. No, just resting heart rate is right, And so I'm kind of late to that party there, and I've never really geeked out on it. 00:18:39 Speaker 1: It's a ton So it's pretty great though, because it's it's like, for example, after not drinking, your resting heart rate might still be within line of your baseline, might still be fine, but your HRV is what's going to be the most notable noticeable difference. So just to simply explain that, it's the time between heart beats, You've got obviously your heart rate, but then it's basically that time between heartbeats. And there are two primary ways that you can basically calculate heart rate variability. But the reason that I mentioned it that way is it's it's such an interesting predictor of overall health for you and you versus general population, and for stress, because your resting heart rate might look good, but in fact you're still not feeling well, and you'll actually notice the periods while wearing the ring too that period of the day. Heck, perhaps even this conversation, I could check mine where stress then goes up because your heart rate variability has ticked in that direction. Yeah, it's it's it's one of those to the point that you're making about relatively new again, the white paper of this stuff was written in the nineties, but it takes that long to come down out. 00:19:46 Speaker 2: It was not something that was taught when I was doing my degree. No, that's right, So it was something kind of new, I guess when I would say, kind of started that. Yeah, and then what was the what's the other. 00:19:57 Speaker 1: They've done such a good job too. What I really apreciate about the industy as a whole because there are a couple of couple of companies that push the envelope on research, but that's really where the rise and tide lifts all boats, because we're all in the game of hey, let's how do we how do we get a healthier, longer living population. Right, how can we improve the base lifeline? Especially for folks with undiagnosed sleep apnea, that'll completely change You're talking about diroid and everything in between. You know, especially especially when I was a personal trainer. You even coaching personal trainer, you know, you get a little bit more involved in the health of a person because they're willing to share that with you. Yeah, you know, coaching a class eight hundred things you're going on, You're like, I can't talk to that person. Yeah yeah, but you know, you frequently get cases like that, we say, hey, actually, you know you might have undiagnosed X Y Z or just kind of go recommend talking to a doctor. That's where the market's headed towards, and so heart rate variability. You're right, they've did a great job just bringing that to the surface. For example, one of the algorithms developed even before them being around stress. Using heart variability as a parameter to create a stress style score was just such a great way to communicate that to consumers, because consumer is going to say, uh, the everyday person rather, it's just going to say, how do I need to he because HRV? But stress? Care about my stress? Stress? 00:21:10 Speaker 2: What kills you? 00:21:11 Speaker 3: HRV is measured in milliseconds? Okay, and higher is better? 00:21:16 Speaker 2: Right? 00:21:17 Speaker 1: Uh? HRV hire better? Is going to uh, yeah, you're right on that. 00:21:25 Speaker 2: Your age. 00:21:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, because we have a friend, his is normally just naturally high. Aj his is naturally really high. And is that measuring? Sorry, people try to I try to explain it, and I don't know how to. 00:21:41 Speaker 3: So I'm interested. 00:21:42 Speaker 2: How do you measure the time between your heartbeats? If you're resting? Heart rates the same? Wouldn't it technically be the same between. 00:21:49 Speaker 4: You know, it's not like because is it measuring the difference between. 00:21:55 Speaker 3: Because I always thought it was like that. 00:21:57 Speaker 4: It's measuring the time between this one and this one, pose to this one and this one, so like this one to that one, maybe two hundred milliseconds this one may be one hundred milliseconds, so my hr. 00:22:06 Speaker 1: V is one hundred? 00:22:07 Speaker 3: Is that right? Does that make any sense? Does anyone understand what I'm saying? 00:22:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the two it's kind of been there's been too popularized ways of calculating. Uh, basically basically the deviation between al right, that and the one that we go with. So it's called r M s s D is the acronym for it. So basically, uh, White papers for this written kind of the nineties and uh about that time. I think it's one of the first ones. But we may actually be able to pull it up here if that's a part of the flow. 00:22:38 Speaker 2: I love love pulling up rock for it to. 00:22:40 Speaker 1: Do a better explanation there. And uh r M and r M SSD Yeah. Yeah. 00:22:47 Speaker 4: For HRV yep, root means square of successive differences. Those are three words for me. Is a primary time to main measure of heart rate variability used to assess short term pair a sympathetic nervous system vaguel activity and calculates the square root of the mean and squared of squared differences between adjacent normal heartbeats. 00:23:10 Speaker 2: Takes the average and then. 00:23:12 Speaker 3: It calculates the square. Yeah, it calculates the square root of the mean of squared differences between adjacent Okay, so yeah, we don't really need to get into it. 00:23:22 Speaker 4: Right, That's that's where you're the actual. 00:23:26 Speaker 1: Formula behind it. Yeah, yeah, you know, a little bit of a quadratic equation. 00:23:30 Speaker 3: A lot harder than what I thought it was. 00:23:32 Speaker 1: Correct, it's not. It's not as something you can That's why. 00:23:36 Speaker 3: That's why it goes on behind the app and I don't have to mess with it. 00:23:39 Speaker 1: That's right, correct, it's a little it's a little bit harder too. 00:23:44 Speaker 2: They didn't teach you that at paramedics. 00:23:46 Speaker 1: That'd be some impressive math of the fat Yeah, that's basically so was was that as it became again popularized really in the last fifteen years or so. But that's been you know from the exercise science background, is that the field of I can't remember where I heard this, but I loved it. It was years ago. Basically, guy said, you know, our population is taking health seriously when the big schools start to support exercise science physiology style degrees. Yeah, kind of basically if you said, if all of a sudden, they might By the way, I don't know this, I haven't checked the curriculum the last five years. But if if John Hopkins said, hey, we've got a nutrition program, right, yeah, and they might folks may check us on that, But at least at that time when we said that's that's exactly right. And I hope the seriousness of the science is just for informing folks of what might be. 00:24:38 Speaker 2: Almost preemptive instead of reactive. 00:24:40 Speaker 1: You know. 00:24:41 Speaker 2: That's I think the big thing that's what we try to push is like, hey, let's try to get ahead of that problem before you it becomes a problem. Yeah. 00:24:47 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, that's the whole thing with I mean CrossFit is it should all be like it should all be like Domino's. Like if you show up and you work out. I mean you guys understand, you show up to the gym. Let's just say you' showing up to the hour day. Then that bleeds into other parts of your life. You're like, well, I mean I don't like to eat a nutrition Yeah, I don't want to eat a cookie before I go work out. I feel like crap when I do that, like I might have something a little better and then like, oh, after I work out, for sure. This is something my wife said, She's like Basically, she doesn't want to waste to work out. She's like, if I'm gonna work out, I'm not gonna go eat a piece of cake, Like I'm gonna go eat something healthy because I don't want to. 00:25:21 Speaker 2: Shocked opposite of what I do. 00:25:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we just pushed the envelope so much and we're like, oh yeah, I earned it. 00:25:27 Speaker 1: You know you you mentioned something fun there though, and that's where and again you kind of got to skirt this line of what you call it, but basically you get into glucose insights. Yeah, blood sugar insights, and well that's gonna be that's one that you'll probably see over the next eighteen months two years really start to come out. And the consumer population is pretty cool because again basically what the FDA allowed us to be able to do is along those lines saying, hey, you know, if you want you all want to go innovate, go bring this glucose levels, which, again to the the average average person, they're not gonna care too much about glucose levels. But like I found out, like I had naturally low blood sugar because I was on the back of a Southwest plain. The fella sitting next to me and my wife had a dog that was trained because he had diabetes. He had a dog that was trained to identify whether or not his blood shirt was getting low. So the dog was really friendly me. He said, hey, uh, that's that's not supposed to actually hellow blood sugar. And sure enough, so after that's crazy. So but but things like that, those day to day insights, Yeah, you're gonna see even more of those come out. Assume where we're talking about HRV and stress. 00:26:34 Speaker 2: Well, and they're not going to maybe not cause them acute problem, but over a long yeah, several years, it could could show a problem. 00:26:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, trend, a trend in the wrong direction, or hopefully a trend in the right direction. Yeah, that's that's that's great. The same thing as like we were saying about like, well, I know that my score is gonna be low in the morning if I drink so then you're like, well, I know based on my glucose levels, like if I eat such and such, I'm gonna you know, my my workout's not as good. Yes, exactly, r And it just like slowly deters you from doing that, and yeah, make small changes. 00:27:05 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. From athlete perspective, you put that into your into your routine, and all of a sudden you got a whole different Analysisah, you keep track all. 00:27:13 Speaker 2: I think athlete and even general population. You know, you see you can see those things on that I mean, if you can see what your blood sugar does when you drink that coke or when you eat that piece of cake, you're like, oh, maybe you know it. It does deter you a little bit because you're looking at it. Yeah, but same with you know, this thing is like, oh, I can see the measurable what's going on with my heart rate? My you know, even if I can see my fitness is changing because my heart rate's not getting in so high in X workout and my heart rate will drop off faster because I'm fitter, and you know, those types of things and you can see it on an app from wearing. 00:27:46 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's all it all is any more, data basically is always is for the most part good. Yeah, it can be good, can be good. And just like slowly, yeah, slowly coerce you into thinks like being cogn scent of those things or normally you just wouldn't where you wouldn't think or you wouldn't know, you know, you wouldn't know how it changed you. 00:28:06 Speaker 3: You just would know. 00:28:07 Speaker 4: Some days you walk in and you work out and it sucks, and then some other days you walk in, you work out and it feels great, and you're like, I don't if you're if you're just coming to like a normal class workout every single day, you don't, You're not. Maybe the athletes are tracking that stuff, you know, to the degree of this food before workout, that food after workout, but somebody who may not be that serious about it, this is showing them that data. We're like, oh, okay, that makes sense now now that I can you know, attest those to the things that I'm doing before or after my workout to make the next workout better. 00:28:39 Speaker 1: That's right, it's all you know. Habit changed. Yeah, and that was when someone I ran, uh, when I ran that gym. One of the things, you know, the deal folks come up to all the times say hey, what's the nutrition advice? Yeah, yep, and I just started off. I keep it simple and say, you know, say no to three things a day. Let's just start there. That's the diet for the next couple of weeks. Let's get habitually consistent with no to the large coke, no to this, that and the other. But it's that micro commitment to have it change. You prove yourself for a thirty day period you can commit to it. Just providing information on the flip side, because all of a sudden you cut out that large diet or say it's die coke. In the mornings you drive by Sonic to pick up things change for you and you start to see that material change. You say, okay, great, okay, I get how this is. Actually I feel better. I can also see. 00:29:25 Speaker 2: See I can see it better. I will say. The one thing I have not missed not tracking in the last couple of weeks, it's sleep. Yeah, because yeah, because if that score isn't telling me I slept bad, if I feel all right, I'm okay, you know. But there's days where I'm like, maybe I didn't sleep so good, but I don't have that score. That's like, ah, you didn't do that bad or you did bad, and it doesn't mess with me as much. Like and I didn't plan my training around my score or my strain or anything like that. 00:29:53 Speaker 3: Which is what you're supposed to do naturally, but it. 00:29:55 Speaker 2: Did creep into your mind every once in a while when you're like, man, especially on a competition day, you look and see red, You're like, oh, man, how do I feel today? You know? 00:30:03 Speaker 3: So there is that, like, yeah, there is that part of it. 00:30:06 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I actually I have a pretty decent I had a pretty decent story with that. I can't remember. I would one day, I did not sleep whatsoever. I used to be a firefighter, Like, I didn't sleep at all that night. And then I and then I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to train today whatever, Like I'm just gonna train normal. And I had probably one of the best training days I had ever had that day. So then that basically that one day was enough to consider convince myself. 00:30:37 Speaker 2: That body was probably in survival. 00:30:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I man, like, well, I have heard this is from Andrew Huberman. The body is meant to handle some amount of stress, like you should be able to have a good amount of stress and continue to good stress yet no any stress, like a large amount of stress and be able to like you should be able to sleep three hours a night and probably functioned exactly the same as you should that next day. Now we're two to two or three days in a row, probably not. But yeah, So, like the body is meant to handle stress, so any little inkling of stress doesn't mean you don't you just like cower in the corner and sleep all day. It's you have to like you have to take the good with the bad. Like you're like, Okay, it's I've got a bad score today, I'm gonna still try to work out today. 00:31:22 Speaker 3: It may not be the best. And then on second day in a row. 00:31:25 Speaker 4: Okay, maybe we take it easy, but like try I've always tried to. If there's one score that comes up bad, I'm like, I'm probably gonna try to push it here. 00:31:33 Speaker 3: But then two three in a row, I'm gonna try to be smart. 00:31:36 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:31:37 Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean I think the body is meant to handle some stress, and you're supposed to put it through some stress. And then there's there's obviously times where you should relax, but putting it through stress is good. 00:31:47 Speaker 2: So you guys are you've got the ring? Yep, that's you said kind of legacy. You guys have been on fingers or Kayla has been on fingers for ye. 00:31:55 Speaker 1: A long time. 00:31:59 Speaker 2: I remember the game to us at the Games and they were sponsored the Games that's when I started winning rubber ring. So what do you guys think the difference is? Obviously you know there's more optimal places for heart rate monitors. I mean chest strap would probably be the number one and most accurate. Then you go risking. 00:32:20 Speaker 1: Too, is that chest basically take pulse here, strap, crutch chest here is core body temperature and this is one we're actually exploring. So generally with wearables primarily measure skin temperature, which is kind of a safe way as saying, let's use this for baseline not absolute values, so you compared to you versus saying it's ninety six point seven degrees whatnot, that's where you're at. Core body temperature is better for that because with heart rate devices, your body temperature does actually matter. So for example, if you go right into a workout not warmed up, it's going to take most trackers a little bit of time to catch out further they are from your chest. There's there's there's some interesting insights there. 00:33:04 Speaker 2: But anyway, so is there much difference between the wrists and the finger? And then also the big push with us was that we were supposed to wear it on our index finger and I cannot bring myself to wear two rings. 00:33:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, well you're good on that. I wear mine. 00:33:20 Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure because when I saw you wearing it, I was like, okay, I don't because you're good. Yeah. Bella was trying to push us to put She's like, you gotta size your index finger blah blah blah, and I said I won't do it. She said, well, they that's where they want you to. And I'm like, I won't. Wait. Do you want it to be authentic and you want me to wear it, I'm gonna put on my ring fingers wearing two rings. I'm just not. I'm not a two ring guy. If you are, or power to you, I'm just not. 00:33:44 Speaker 1: You get a little jeweled up there, that's right. Well I used to be all went through a face where I had to just wear it all kinds of a dazzle jewelry. There you go anymore? 00:33:51 Speaker 2: And then I met my wife. 00:33:52 Speaker 1: She said, no, get ready of your ripped jeans. Yeah, have it done? Uh so the four factor ring verse or finger versus wrists. You know, like you said with heart rate heart rate, if you want most accurate tracking during activity, it's gonna be that chest strap. But the reality is you get day to day recovery style metrics. Ring or your finger's great for that. The form fact of the wrist, which can be great too, and we're exploring some options there, which of course we'll talk about hand in a little second. Is primarily because you have a larger surface area to measure, so during activity it's more consistent, whereas fingers, like if we went and did a kettlebell workout, because we're going to be restricting blood flow, it's gonna be a little harder or be consistent. I'm measuring for the fingers, but generally the blood vessels and your fingers are pretty good for that. The recommended finger is non dominant index primarily because you use that hand less, so the more your hand's at rest, if you just had your hand flat all day, we're gonna get perfect measurements from your hand. But since that's dynamic, moving moving, that's exactly right. Blood flow is restricting. That's where you can adjust it. So when I'm working out, I'll actually switch it over if I'm doing a run or something sort just for more consistency, and you can actually know while you're tracking that live you might be you might be a good place. But it really fit matters most. Yeah, so if it fits well there, you're gonna be a good place. If it's a little loose and like for me, my index is a little thicker, so it actually fits really well. 00:35:16 Speaker 2: Here my ring fingers skinny, way smaller than all my other fingers. 00:35:21 Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, but that's that's a big thing, is getting on how often it's moving. 00:35:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense that it doesn't really matter where it is. As long as it's there all the time or a lot of the time, then it's going to start to get trends like it doesn't. 00:35:37 Speaker 3: There's no consistency. Yeah, the consistency of wearing it matters more than where you're wearing it, how it's wearing it. 00:35:43 Speaker 2: You can't how often or what's the battery life on these things, you'll get slimmering. 00:35:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, So since you have control of like if you go into your ring. 00:35:51 Speaker 2: Set, I turned on the beta uh on activity because I'm not going on my phone to turn on an activity exactly. 00:35:58 Speaker 1: You turn that on, you'll get slimmering. You'll about five six days off of that. You turn that off. I want to take the charge power. 00:36:06 Speaker 2: So that was The nice thing about the other brand that we will not name is you just slid the charger on so it never came off. Yeah, which is a good thing and a bad thing. My wrists they're just now starting to recover that they were burnt. And I sweat so much, and I would, you know, forget to switch it for a day or two, and then I'd start to like it eat away at my skin just from like the constant use. 00:36:26 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:36:26 Speaker 4: Well he also doesn't shower, but once a week. You know, I showered too much, I guess because it would just get wet when I sweat. 00:36:31 Speaker 1: So yeah, that might be the conversation. 00:36:36 Speaker 2: It's good now, but uh, you know, having options like you're saying, yeah, you know with maybe something coming out for the wrist or the chest would be nice. Man. I got to you know, where I was wearing war whoop. I think for six years straight, I think without a break. Yeah, minus like one of our hunting trips. I think we were out for like seven eight days and sids. Yeah we lost service. It was it just didn't retro two or three the days. But anyway, but then so I got out of the habit started swimming again, and I even bought like a garment, nice garment because we're gonna do an iron Man triathlon and I just don't even put it on. I'm like, oh, do it when I run so I can look at my paces on the run. But even on the swim, I'm like, namn good. Yeah, I can look at the clock. Yeah, you know, so I do like that. I don't even have a forethought to this. It's just there other than it's silver right now, and I'm used to not seeing silver, so it is catching me. Uh, it's usually just black or gray ring. 00:37:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard of they hurt the team. You're the only silver, so everybody else. 00:37:34 Speaker 4: I would do silver too. Yeah, yeah, old guy, that's what I mean. Silver is when I is my wedding band. I just got the tat, so I don't have the tat. Yeah, Dre, did you meet Dre frosted tips? Maybe it wasn't there when you came by frost You can't. Yeah, you couldn't possibly if you were if you were back there. Well, he tattooed it on me. I showed it to my wife. 00:37:55 Speaker 2: You did I did not? 00:37:56 Speaker 3: Oh you didn't know that Dre did this? 00:37:58 Speaker 4: Yeah, my wife and the gem I said, I guess I'm gonna show you, and she's like, what, that's a tattoo. 00:38:06 Speaker 3: I actually got that tattooed on me. She she likes it, but she didn't. 00:38:09 Speaker 1: You didn't brief her on this. You just said, Hey, you just got it. 00:38:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, we just did it at lunch one day. 00:38:14 Speaker 1: She was good with that. 00:38:16 Speaker 2: I was gonna I was gonna do it, and my wife flipped her lip. Yeah. 00:38:19 Speaker 3: I didn't give her a chance. 00:38:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, my wife would have just called me. She's Australion, so she did. She would call me a couple of colorful words, but an idiot, let's just say that. Yeah. 00:38:30 Speaker 4: She she did not like the fact that Dre did it with his tattoo gun off Amazon. 00:38:34 Speaker 2: But the one that tattooed bends butt. 00:38:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, tattooed Ben's butt and his finger and anything else the tattoo, anything else, just your button, your finger? 00:38:43 Speaker 1: Did you was that unprompted? You committed to that, Ben? But then did you have interest in a butt tattoo? 00:38:50 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:38:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ben doesn't have any. 00:38:52 Speaker 3: But Ben got his bun. Oh maybe he does. 00:38:57 Speaker 2: Have a Yeah, Ben and Dre this is kind of the early days of the wild West, and Dre bought a tattoo gun off of Amazon and. 00:39:05 Speaker 4: Started tattooing himself, which he did a horrible job. He tattooed his finger and it bled through so like the ink just is so you can't read it. 00:39:14 Speaker 3: It's so squatchy. 00:39:16 Speaker 1: A tattoo gun off of Amazon. Yeah, this was just his hobby of the weekend. 00:39:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. That's yeah. 00:39:22 Speaker 1: You met Dre, that's him. 00:39:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very just flighty and changes his maybe six months he's doing something different. 00:39:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, like he's I feel like, hey. 00:39:30 Speaker 2: We won the games. He won the Games on a team. He did individual for several years. Team went to being a like endurance runner. 00:39:38 Speaker 4: Drive ran that twenty four forty he ran that race on the treasurill jiu jitsu. 00:39:43 Speaker 2: Got into jiu jitsu, then was a like an mm a like real MMA fighter for a little while local and got back into cross fit. And now you guys are doing up. They're doing yeah really, Yeah. 00:39:56 Speaker 3: His life is so interesting. 00:39:58 Speaker 4: And yes he has frost is you just frosted tips, right, So what he has. 00:40:05 Speaker 2: He's got some blonde and have a Filipino and so he just he and then now was just letting it grow. So it looks he looks looks like his hair is on fire. He looks like that suits jet black and then just these like inch. 00:40:19 Speaker 3: Of of bleach. 00:40:20 Speaker 1: I'm assuming he's a single dude, married two kids. 00:40:23 Speaker 2: Two kids. 00:40:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, you would assume that her. 00:40:29 Speaker 2: Then together since they were like sophomore. 00:40:32 Speaker 1: Oh man, that's great. How did you meet your wife? Uh? 00:40:36 Speaker 3: It is a it's complicated. 00:40:38 Speaker 4: I remember when I try to tell you the story, I was who asked Darren asked before the wedding, and he's like, forget it. 00:40:44 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:40:46 Speaker 4: Her step mom was my gym teacher and we Facebook kept in contact on Facebook a little bit, like I went and coached, like when I was doing cross and I would go and like do some of the gym classes, like put them through across the workout stay. Friends that are on Facebook saw a picture of her stepdaughter, like, hey, she's pretty hot. 00:41:06 Speaker 3: It's twenty twenty one, so I sent her slender d MS. 00:41:09 Speaker 1: Okay, so did you so you coached her for a period. 00:41:12 Speaker 3: No, she did, cause. 00:41:15 Speaker 4: Our webs intertwined like a dozen different times. Yeah, she did come to my cross of the class for a few times. Her turner stepmom and her brother came and that had not we had. 00:41:24 Speaker 3: I talked to her. She left four years later. I sent her DM on Instagram and. 00:41:28 Speaker 4: Then we just yeah, there you go. It was it's crazy. Those the story is crazy. It's too long. It's way too long. Everyone will these guys will freak out if I started talking. 00:41:40 Speaker 1: That's an interesting story. Ben's butt tattoo might be the next come back. 00:41:44 Speaker 2: There's nothing really. 00:41:45 Speaker 3: Does there's nothing to say. 00:41:46 Speaker 2: It's just a smiley face with some x's on it. 00:41:49 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what's crazy that there is nothing to say that should tell you who these guys are. 00:41:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, and who that was. 00:41:56 Speaker 1: Just an afternoon I got a little bit of background on that. I was asking a question. Good team though, yeah, good team, great team. 00:42:01 Speaker 3: All right, So where you at on the your other wearables then? 00:42:05 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got we've got some fun plans this year, basically the the mo os. It's kind of what I was talking about earlier that our motus operandi is we want to bring reliable, tracking, accurate, durable, of course just to the k lob brand, affordable, as we talked about, no subscription, keep that dollar amount to something that's actually reasonable, insecure. You know, all, we're an American brand. All data is US based. Our servers are in New Jersey. I'm pretty tired about that, but it's still it's basically, you know, how do we continue to allow that performance, How do we continue to allow that twenty four to seven reability to work? What form factors should we explore? But my big push is is what can we do on the medical research side? Too? Early on we went with the second generation ring, we already got into women's health. Great team of medical advisors that aided in getting that feature out there, and that was a big push And it would be kind of a strange push too, coming from a silicone in company, but I made it. I made it important for us as a business because fundamentally, if you're if you're, if you've been as we were, your origin stories, commitment to love, commitment of partnership. You know, Kayla the pioneer in the silicon ring space. At one point we had eighty percent market share. Like you're saying, cross up sponsorship and whatnot game sponsorship? Then what does this era look like for us and and for for me and the company. It's commitment to longevity. So how do we bring that consistency across different forms? And you know, I won't show exactly what I got, You've saw what I was wearing earlier, but you know I'll give some, give some a little teasered a part of it, and uh, it's it's pretty exciting because it puts us in a space where we can, you know, best best support our audience and our customer and who's who's who's come have become tried and true to the brand over the last decade plus. We just want to make it something that you know, you can go hunting in, you can go, you can go weld and in you can you can trust it during you know, most intense events, whether it be you say, come from the firefighter side of things, whether you know you're you're responding to a call, or let's say it's just game time you know you're on the athlete side of it, or your mom taking care of your kids. You know, that's whole part of it that you still need to monitor those. 00:44:20 Speaker 2: So now it's just something I thought of, but I don't even really think about it until just now. If you're wearing both, do they talk to each other? Do they is it more reliable? Can you do one without the other? Can you both ways both way. It's gonna make it. There's an interoperability to do it all. 00:44:34 Speaker 1: It's cool. Cool to be able to swap take off like I'm I'll wear one and not the other during workouts and kind of switch back and forth depending on what I'm doing. You know, it's a little especially with ring, Like ring muscle ups are a little difficult to do with the ring early early product testing out a couple of scars from making it possible. But then other areas it works pretty well. You know, a lot of a lot of long distance training, cycling whatnot. Work works pretty well. 00:44:57 Speaker 2: So I'd like not having anything on my wrist when I'm swimming. I don't know why, but. 00:45:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something to it. So keep it, keep it clean. But we've got it's going to be a fun year, and it's it's fun for our people and and just our core customer to the reception of it. But one of my big initiais for for k Loo at the brand level is returning the brand to it soul how we talk and how we serve our core customer and and meet them where they're at. And uh, you know, we have the opportunity to do that with with this product and to do it in a way that you know, some part of our brand ethosis is UH is UH enabling you to keep going with the things you love and UH. The origin story of that was, you know, partnership commitment at the game time events like you mentioned the games, but continuing that and with health and longevity, saying hey, how can we support you know, for our folks and you're going hunting and never monitor your sleep. Might be pretty dang surprised by it the first couple of months awaring it. So we'll see how many lives we can help. 00:45:54 Speaker 2: With that, you know. Obviously that's our our target here with this this podcast is outdoors of you. You hunt at all, you get out there and you're gonna have to go on one and tech product test some stuff with us. 00:46:04 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's just bad happened with it. But you know, be in Texas and Arkanas, everybody, just about everybody around me went hunting. Yeah, and some good buddies spots some photos that send pictures from there, you know, trips to poland. 00:46:15 Speaker 2: Go for it. 00:46:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, somebodies that got into it. Yeah, So it was it was one thing, always adjacent shooting with them. But never really got big into into it. Yeah, but yeah, I. 00:46:27 Speaker 2: Think he'd liked the Western style of stuff, you know. I think that that was my my route into it was I was always round it growing up, but never really in it. Yeah, and then when I went out west, that's when it clicked for me, just because of the physical aspect of it. So I think sounds like that would click with you a little bit more. So we'll have to. I'll if you go out west, let us product test some stuff and let it, you know, use it in the backwoods and see. 00:46:51 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're both we're both late bloomers in the hunting space too. So like so we yeah, we knew nothing for I knew nothing for twenty years of my life. You knew nothing for twenty Yeah. So yeah, so we're definitely not hunting snobs by any by any means. We just barely know we're doing how finally, Yeah. 00:47:12 Speaker 2: But we have a lot of knowledge in the fitness side. Yeah, I think, you know, I don't think you'd have to be a hunter to understand how you have to be a fitness guy. You don't understand how this could help your you know, recovery or your training or preparation to go on a hunt. 00:47:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think, yeah, I think it's I mean, I think anyone would benefit from tracking those the things that we've been talking about. 00:47:34 Speaker 3: I mean, even for a. 00:47:35 Speaker 2: Short amount of time, you know, yeah, for a couple of months, and you kind of have an idea of what happens. Yep, if you know, if it's something that you don't, you know, get into and look at every single day or every well you need to on a regular basis to start, and then you can kind of get an idea from there. Yeah, that's exactly right, exactly, that's what it's intended to be. Something you can wear, get the gist of it, understand your baseline, and then you know, check it every couple of days. 00:47:57 Speaker 1: Great, it's still working. So yeah, it's that's what you got going on. That's right. We're not we're not about giving you more homework on your body. But if your wife's pushing it, says, hey, you know, honey, you gotta start mind this is. Yeah, you gotta start checking this, this is this is. 00:48:09 Speaker 4: It is an easy way to do it. Yeah, I mean, there's there's the way you're explaining it. There's literally no excuse if like you do have possibly an issue or something that you feel like might be an issue. 00:48:20 Speaker 3: Like if you don't description, you literally just buy it and then. 00:48:22 Speaker 2: Don't like going to doctors, don't like waiting rooms. It's a good way to and you're not going to substitute for a doctor or true medical. 00:48:28 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you can say, but you can still. 00:48:30 Speaker 2: Look at some stuff and be like, oh yeah, my heart rate is, oh it is. You know, there is some stuff going on my sleep. There is some ap now, there is whatever. So that's right, and it's like all right, yeah, maybe I should take this serious. 00:48:40 Speaker 1: Yea undiagnosed sleep appne is a big one. Crazy and of course you all you know how that trickles down to overall cardiovascular Yeah for sure, big big bag. Yeah yeah that changed it. 00:48:51 Speaker 2: Well, it's crazy too. You know, people like my mom have sleep apnea and she's not overweight by any means super active. 00:48:57 Speaker 4: And just like just like it is what it is the windpipe or something right the or in the nose, yeah, whatever it is, she had the nose or the f I don't know which one she wears honestly, because I know people that the nose want it does sound rough? Yeah, you ever try to sleep with those No sounds tough. 00:49:13 Speaker 1: No, No, I've just just tried the nasal strips the other side and that was hard enough. 00:49:18 Speaker 2: Strips, aren't. I wore them for a little while. Our buddy Todd has some and they're great, but I just after a while, i'd like, in the middle of the night, i'd be like, I'm taking this thing off. But it does open you up. 00:49:28 Speaker 4: It does, which is like I don't know, but it just felt weird. I can't stop feeling it on my nose. Yeah, I can't stop looking at it, and I can't stop feeling it. It's like someone, you know, when someone has a finger right there. I can't. I can't stop feeling it. I'd like to wear because it sounds great, but I just can't do it. 00:49:46 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, then I found out I don't even know if that's how they work, but apparently the strips are for levels. I thought they were just for the no sizes. Yeah you're supposed to go, yeah, you're supposed to yeah, but whatever they had level four of it. 00:49:57 Speaker 2: Absolutely no flat. 00:50:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just flat across your face. 00:50:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can't deny it does feel better when it opens up. 00:50:06 Speaker 1: You're like, breath you feel great. I tried to just I did a couple of workouts then with an. 00:50:11 Speaker 2: Nazel breathing easy. 00:50:14 Speaker 1: You can't do it because I was at a Victis, not when I competed, but just kind of casually just kind of showing up. 00:50:20 Speaker 2: In the super sciency there. 00:50:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, but the nasal breathing was we did. We did NAZL breathing warm ups in the camp class. Remember those, man, those are those sucked. 00:50:30 Speaker 3: I can't do it. I've never once tried. I never once even tried. 00:50:35 Speaker 1: I don't think. 00:50:35 Speaker 2: I think. I'm like, oh, yep, you can't. 00:50:39 Speaker 1: You spend you like you do you just run around, uh you know, do like a little four hundred meters lap or something. You can't. I be just couldn't breathe by the end of it. You've got so much stuff coming at you. Man, I'm happy to just clean up. 00:50:52 Speaker 2: More power to people that can do it. I just don't have the I don't have the discipline to do it. 00:50:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's too easy. It's it's too easy to just open my mouth and breathing, like. 00:51:01 Speaker 2: There's so much more oxygen. Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, but it's not going and you're not using And I'm like. 00:51:05 Speaker 1: Cool, you know, yeah, yeah, that's right. Those come out. And my wife's got me on this red light therapy hat. Yeah all right, she got me on a hat. So we've been looking at it. Well, you know, she says, all right, what's Klin saying? 00:51:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's my dad saying? 00:51:24 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, that's a we're looking into it. 00:51:27 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:51:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty. It's it's something pretty. 00:51:29 Speaker 3: I do think it's interesting. It's uh. I haven't done a ton of research in red light therapy, but I mean there is. It is backed. 00:51:35 Speaker 4: I mean it literally is. That's what's from the sun. That's what's helping you recover from the sun. Obviously the sun that nothing can replace that, but uh, but the red light therapy is like kind of an it's a good second option if you can't just be outside all day. 00:51:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:51:50 Speaker 4: I was making fun of Jake this morning. Yeah, the lights off. It was like eight o'clock in the morning, and uh, like, Jake, your circadian rhythm is going to be all jacked. 00:51:58 Speaker 3: What are you doing. 00:51:58 Speaker 4: You're here in a dark room, it's eight o'clock in the morning. Get out there and get some sun. It's like a hermit in his office. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think the data with red light therapy will be interesting. I don't know, I don't know enough about it, but it would be cool to track that. 00:52:13 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's always you know, it's always fun when those come out, you know, the exercise science side of it. Speaking to earlier, it's just like even the rate of perceived exertion scales that they used to push ye went from one to ten, and then Bores' scale came out, went from six to twenty. But did you ever teach group fitness? Could you went? 00:52:31 Speaker 2: Well group fitnessing at a corporate wellness center? Yeah? Yeah, and they were glorified CrossFit, you know, people come back in. You'd do three or four movements and be like, all right, go find a machine, get on it for three minutes, and then they'd come back in and it was just a boot camp. 00:52:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. I taught one. It was called Core Chaos. Was at an RP sign. But behind everybody, I say, okay, if you ever need to look at that scale, I have a bunch of smiley Yeah. 00:53:00 Speaker 3: I always saying, jess. 00:53:01 Speaker 1: A, you know who's going to take the time looking to me like, well, okay, well let me fourteen fifteen. Yeah, it's it's it was funny and a half. That actually comes in the UAST though today with one of the algorithms we're working on is called a train and load algorithm basically just tells to scale and said kind of, uh, based off of that, based off your baseline, here's how we're tying that together. So there, I'm I'm pumped. Where exercise science and physiology is meeting medicine, it's great. 00:53:31 Speaker 2: Well, you know, garment, it'll when you do a run, it'll be like, you know, give us a score. But then like five it says hard, and I'm like five is not hard to me? Like seven, eight, were approaching hard, right, and. 00:53:42 Speaker 3: Then you need yeah, and then you need like so much rest. 00:53:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, battery. But yeah, I've only worn mine, I think twice. I just and so that's just run. 00:53:51 Speaker 3: I just use it for paces. 00:53:52 Speaker 2: That's one of the things. That's the only reason I wear is That's the one thing I do like about the Slimmer. I won't give away too much of your products, yeah, but like that I like because it doesn't get in the way with everything that we do. The one thing is it would be nice to look down and see what time it was and what my heart rate was, you know, like that's. 00:54:10 Speaker 1: The two things that it would be if you're about to come on here and just innovate some products. 00:54:14 Speaker 2: That's the two things I want to see. Yeah, that's only That's all I want to see is the time and what my heart rate's at right there. Yeah, that's it. And maybe a maybe you could switch between the actual time or a timer, you know, like that's it. That's all I need to know. 00:54:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, mix it up. Well those are you know. It's I've I've been pumped even in the early days when we launched the customer stories here because some of the best times in my life were coaching CrossFit and folks that came into that gym. I always told my coaches too, I said, hey, you never know somebody's story coming into the gym. They might have sat in that parking line. We had a couple of memory. I'll have the same here too, that'll sit in the parking lot during eleven AM class for like two weeks, be where they must cur him in there. But man, when they get in there and you just watched the transformation angely touched on this earlier. It just kind of somebody from day one to you know, a year later, he's incredible. Yeah, I have one guy who's won't tell the whole story. We probably don't have time for it. But man, he just he he was a hidden tank, just strong as an ox. You never knew it. Ye never trained, came in. We trained for two years back squad of five hundred pounds. 00:55:17 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 00:55:18 Speaker 1: But you like the confidence that you get, oh yeah, speak from my story for Fish a CrossFit too, is like you approach the rest of the world different when you get squat five. Yeah, but his whole life change from that confidence. Had he had something under him. 00:55:31 Speaker 3: That's yeah, that is so true. 00:55:33 Speaker 4: Yeah, And like and you even think about like an older person who's of course, you know, the overhead squad probably didn't really even exist when they were a kid, and then you have like a fifty or six year old person like learn how to do an overhead squat, Like same thing. Like it may not be a ton of weight, but like the confidence you get from being able to do something that seems so difficult, and like. 00:55:54 Speaker 2: You're in the probably the top one percent people that can even do it. 00:55:58 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's probably yeah, one percent of the world can even do that. 00:56:01 Speaker 4: And uh yeah, so that's like even the simplest transformations is super cool to watch. 00:56:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. It and you know that's always been the beauty CrossFit. Yeah, even with all going on in the in the world of it, it's still you know, CrossFit is the community and there was it was it was a homie beacon for folks. So you know, we my intention with Kayler is that we we end up equipment folks, you know, whether it be whether be hunting or cross fitting, with the data that that makes you to get some of that confidence. 00:56:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, both for us. 00:56:32 Speaker 2: Yeah cool man. Well appreciate it, man, and thank you. 00:56:35 Speaker 1: Thank you. 00:56:35 Speaker 2: Listen, just go on to hunt and test some of the stuff out. So what does your stress level? 00:56:38 Speaker 1: All right, Changelo, fun conversations. Thanks gentlemen. 00:56:42 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you,