00:00:12 Speaker 1: And we're back to another episode of Cutting the Distance Podcast. I'm Dirk Durham, and today's show I have Chris Cabral. You guys might remember Chris from a show earlier this spring. We talked about bear baiting and Chad Antler hunting. Chris runs Russell Pond Outfitters in North Idaho, and I just want to say welcome to the show, Chris. 00:00:34 Speaker 2: Hi. How's it going, dude? 00:00:36 Speaker 1: Good? Good? Good? How much now that bear season's over and you finally get a break? How many bears did you guys get this spring? 00:00:44 Speaker 2: I think we ended up with thirty seven spring bears total, not counting wounded our mess those just kills. 00:00:51 Speaker 1: Okay, that's pretty impressive. That's a lot of bears. 00:00:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. We do pretty good on bears in the spring. 00:00:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, that's got to help the elk. 00:01:01 Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. There's no question. You can just tell when you bring those big bores in in June which ones are the elk caveaters. Every time we got one, we open up the stomachs and you can tell which ones I've been calving. 00:01:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, he got some pretty good ones too. This spring seems like. 00:01:16 Speaker 2: Some Yeah, on average, we killed a lot over six foot, which is a really good spring. Oh, almost every single one was bores, maybe a couple soles. Was all total wow. 00:01:29 Speaker 1: Wow. Well then it looked like you're you got done hunting and you start putting up some hay. That's always fun. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, straight from bear season to the hayfield. But I thought i'd get so forth to dry off, but that didn't happen this year. 00:01:42 Speaker 1: Man's been so dry. 00:01:44 Speaker 2: I was worried that, hey, we're gonna get burnt. 00:01:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's always funny the fourth of July, it's like everybody haze and it's like it's always kind of a crapshoot because it seems like there's always a little storm that sneaks in and about the time you get your hay on the ground, my dad, farmers are going to get their hay washed this time and dang it, but it looks like you lucked out. 00:02:10 Speaker 2: Huh yeah, I did a little bird. 00:02:15 Speaker 1: Now. Some of our listeners may ask why do you Interviete Why do you interview guides and outfitters, And I think it's a pretty simple answer. These guys do this for a living. They hunt they're in the woods probably more than anybody. You know, they're up there with loggers as far as spending time in woods every day, but they spend a lot of time in the woods, and I arguably think it'd be hard to find somebody else that that has this much time in the woods and hunting experience. So, you know, I I like to get outfitters and guides on here just to pick your brains on. You know, what, what what you're doing, what are your what's your little secrets letter? How do you do it? And you know, I've been doing this a long time, but I'm I'm I'm a student of elk hunting. I'm always I'm always looking for for more information and I feel like about the time I think I got it figured out, than the elk proved me wrong. So anyway, that's uh, that's why I get I bring these outfitters and guides on because I just really like to hear here what what they're doing and how they do it. You run a pretty strong camera game trail cams. Is there anything that stands out monitoring elk for all these years? Have you noticed like some some little cool things, some little nuances that maybe kind of surprised you before you really start kind of keying in on your. 00:03:40 Speaker 2: Cameras, you know, not really, you know, I try to are where I hunt. It seems pretty consistent every year as far as where the elk are moving and the you know, the walls I put my cameras on. In the game trails, what we have seen is a lot less ridge top running than we used to see because of predators. We go so many wolves and cats in areas now. Elk don't like to be on the ridge tops anymore, hang on the ridgetops as much as they used to. When they come over the top, it seems like they you know, go back down into where they can you know, have poorly winds and really keep a track of the predator. They definitely don't bed You find way less beds on the ridge stops now than he used to. And I've noticed that, so a lot of your ridgetop cameras aren't producing like they used to, you know. Fifteen twenty Yuvo. 00:04:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's that's an excellent point. What do you think about like meadows too, like meadowy areas are do you think they're elker avoiding those two? 00:04:38 Speaker 2: I do? I do I think it depends on the size of meta. Of course, I can't really say so much meadows as burns. We have a lot of prescribed burns where I hunt, and man, the wolves really run the burns are as soon as those blowdowns are cleaned up by fire, the windfalls are cleaned up. They don't want to be out there because the wolves can catch them out there. You know, they're they're using the blowdowns and the brush, which they've always use the brush for protection, but now they use the windfalls to stay away from the predators and really noticeable where I hut. 00:05:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you're saying these things. These are the same thing kind of things I'm kind of noticing too. Like you say, the ridgetops, like the old trails that were there. Man, you'd almost say there hadn't been an elk there in twenty years. You know, there's no there's no sign, there's no there's no scat, there's no elk tracks. But like you say, you get off on the sides. You know, a lot of the places I find elk seems like, you know, especially if the road system's on top, you know, and and and maybe it don't matter where the road system is, but that bottom one third of the the drainage, that that halfway down to bottom one third, it seemed like the elk. I'm really finding elk in those kind of places. Yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry, I gonna say. I think it's back to your point of like using the winds and the swirling winds and stuff like, like elk can really take advantage of those predators running those ridge tops. 00:05:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they really use the water where we are. They say that bottom third on the on the river bank to the creek beds and then they can just shoot across, run down the kirk, do whatever they need to do to get you know, fortible to lose their trail, you know. And I think and I think honestly fishermen too, uh you know, they're out there all summer fifth in these rivers. I think the elk hang out down by the fishermen because there's that maney less woolves, the old the lot of the fishermen. And we've seen a lot of that way where in the last few years. 00:06:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I've you know, it seems like a lot of area, especially north central Idaho, North Idaho you're starting to see more and more elk close to town. Yeah, like like right out of right out of city limits and just right out, you know, the first five to ten miles out of town. Then elker seemed to be hanging around because I think they feel safe from predators there. 00:06:52 Speaker 2: Yeah. I definitely notice it with the fishermen later, because you got all the five fishermen out of staters with their dogs bark and and just came mp and along the river. I mean those elk are hanging right down there by both people, for sure, There's no doubt about it. 00:07:06 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you ever get bulls on your cam that just kind of appear out of nowhere and you're like, where the heck did that guy come from? I've never seen him before. 00:07:15 Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, way more often than you think. And it'll you know, sometimes it's five to ten years before you'll get another picture of that same bull. But I save everything, I keep track of it. You out label everything, so I really pay attention to bulls over a ten year period, not just a couple of year period. You know, you really got to pay attention to the old picks to keep track of them, because you know, it is where we are they don't change drastically. A lot of times with the mature bulls, you know, they might have a picker here there that throws you off, and it makes you think of the different bowl, and you really got to look for signs. Like I have certain bulls I keep track of because they have a ripped ready or a knock on their left ear, and a lot of times you pay attention to that stuff too, and then you know I've had I have bulls for a fact, I know for a fact that are over twenty on camera. Hole lot of them, a lot of them, but there's a few that I know over twenty years old. 00:08:04 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you see them things regressing after a certain point, like they used to be a giant and then they just start like not growing a big a rack. 00:08:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, we see that a lot. But what's crazy is it can just be a hard winter that regresses. They'll drop twenty inches that year, then have an easy winner into right back up to three thirty or something like that. So you see it, you think that you're loving them. One year you're like, oh no, no, you know, he doesn't score anything, and then the next year you have an easy winner and they have a lot of you know, good feed, and he's back up to the size he was the year before. So it's kind of deceiving. They go up and down a lot where depending on the winter. 00:08:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of that seems like that North Country maybe it seems like you those bulls don't start hitting their potential till they get pretty damn old, like they're eight ten years old. You know, it's just my opinion. I don't have anything to back it up, but man, they started getting that eight ten years old. It looks they look like a freaking bulldozer right there. Their bodies just keep getting bigger and bigger, their racks get like now they're starting to grow some friacking handlers. 00:09:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, when you know their neck and head, when they look like they're nine hundred pounds, you know, a thousand pounds their neck and their head, you know, compared to a you know, immature six point it's a totally different animal. It's on the bodies, we get what. 00:09:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing. Do you do you have some cams that, like, all summer long, you've got cows on them, and then you got your cut your your cams that have bachelor balls all summer and then like August fifth, or eighth or tenth, somewhere in that first part of August, those bulls shed their velvet. You see a couple shed, and then you don't see another bull on that camera for months, you know, a couple of months, and then they show up with the cows. 00:09:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like they do. They take a walk, you see the end of August, August twenty seventh to September. Second, they'll take a walk and then you'll catch them on a different camera with a cow or so. And then you'll catch them ten miles away on a different camera back by themselves. The next thing, though, they got a hair them right back where they started here. 00:10:10 Speaker 1: I go, wow, that's that's so crazy. How much how much ground they can they can cover. I know guys that are like down in you know, not just North Idaho, like Southeast Idaho. You know, one guy I know was had a giant on his camera for a few years and that thing would always disappear and he's just like, man, where's that thing going. Well, he got talking to some guy from Utah. He's like, yeah, you have been getting this big bullet or a camera and like they're like twenty miles away from each other air miles and he's like, that's the one that's been disappearing in Idaho. On me, he's like, nothing's changing states. 00:10:45 Speaker 2: So all right, I'm on the Montana border. So I deal with that all the time. A lot of my big ones go over to Montana for rut and don't see him till after season. Again, there were vice versa Montana bulb will show up, you know, the new ones you've never seen, and then go back after. 00:11:01 Speaker 1: That's crazy. So you have some pretty big, nasty country. How are you locating bulls and then targeting them in September out? I have an idea, but let's let's kind of break that down for our listeners, Like, you know, where do you even start? Like what what's your thought process there? 00:11:19 Speaker 2: So for me early season especially, I do a lot more glass and obviously than bugle and to locate, and I do a lot of glasses in August early mornings and Rick before dark, and I try to have you know, most of the patterns of them, you know, late August where to hang. I try to keep track of that, and I do a lot of glassing room season, and I just try to get in close autumn and I'm not calling like crazy. I like that first week of September. Obviously, that's the only time I get the hunts that I'm guiding the rest of the season. But I always like it. I like to be the first person to call it a bowl. I think, you know, with any big mature bull, like I'm trying to haunt, you know, you kind of only had one mess up early season and they win you or something doesn't go right, and I feel like a lot of times those twelve the you know, eighteen year old bulls are educated for the season. After that, I feel like you get that one good chance stuff first week of September, and if you can make that happens bulls. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think that bulls are getting more call shy every year? 00:12:22 Speaker 2: I did. I mean I have dealt with call shy oak my whole life since I started because of wolves. I do think we're you know, certain other units that are more pressured. Yes, they're definitely getting more call shy, but I think where I am, it's more predator thing than it. There's people, honestly. 00:12:39 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah you're pretty remote. 00:12:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're uh, you know, they're they're tight lipped. But once you're in closed, they're not crazy call shy. You know, they're not used to people like. 00:12:49 Speaker 1: A lot of units, right do you do? You So basically sometimes you'll be across the drange and you'll bugle and they're like, no, I'm not answering. But you walk across that draine and you get on, you know, mix it up. You know, you walk within a hundred two hundred yards of them, they'll crack off and then you can play him from there. 00:13:09 Speaker 2: Yeah. I really know where their betting ground is. Obviously. It all comes to just scouting and in the same area for years and years, and I just I don't go in there betting, you know, and blow him out. I just get on the outskirts of it. And you know, that's where I do my calling. If if I'm going to work a bowler, you know, I know he he's uh, you know, the the chance of calling him man, I try to get just close man and my you know, I practiced call him my all life. I think I'm a decent caller, but I think every all of my success is kind of attributed to my setup, you know, making sure the winds good and having the customer in the right position as everything. You know, they're not like us at the elk kind of their whole life. I know where to be and when to be there, so I you know, I try to get my hunter in position, my shooter and position, and then I run around him essentially, you know, to make it work. 00:13:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's super important. I think a lot of our a lot of our listeners, well from a lot of folks I talk to every year, they're like, you know, I get bulls bugling really good. They come in, they hang up, and then just I never can't go from there, get them, get them past there. So, man, with a having a hunter, especially maybe a not experienced elk hunter, you know, set up coming in, you know, waiting for a bull to come in, that's got to be tough. So kind of what are some of those things you're looking for when you set set your hunter up, and what do you tell them? What? What? What's the conversation? 00:14:33 Speaker 2: Number one thing obviously is to never try to draw while they're you know, looking at you. That's the number one thing I got to tell my people. And not hold back too long either, always waiting till the bull gets the twenty broadside staring looking for me, you know, before they're trying to draw. That's a big thing. Obviously, stay out of the sunshine. You see these guys all the time. They go to the one open jackpne wide open wood sunshine, and you know, and the bull's coming out of the shade, you know, definitely, you know they are out of the sunlight. The bet you can, you can get away with so much more. I'm fortunate now I have enough repeat clients. You know, they're helped with me a couple of years. They learned kind of the system and they you know, we kind of will do hand signals. You know, we get a little better, you know, getting them, you know, to cut the distance and be in their clothes. But a lot of guys, I think too, they try to get to where they're in too much cover. And they came and picked their bow up with limb, you know, the limbs are moving and then both see that a lot of time too, So I try to make sure that they you know, can pick their bow up without moving brush and everything else too. Brush is the hard part where I am, you know, just getting a tunnel to couture. A lot of times you use the old thing you got. 00:15:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got. I got a ten yard shooting line here and it's pretty crappy, and I got a five yard and he's gonna have to step on me if I'm gonna shoot this pole. 00:15:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I'll tell a lot of my customers when they're booking a hot this is not wide open like New Mexico. You know, there are times where you just got to take a chance, you know. There it's hard to get that perfect quartered away broadside, no brush, no you know anything, And I just oh. 00:16:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah. Do you do you find that the elk that those they're call shy in the predator country? Do you you find that they'll sometimes answer maybe a little maybe at a distance, but it's like quieter, or maybe they're as you start talking to them, they're like real quiet, and then as you work them, you know, they kind of open up. 00:16:30 Speaker 2: But yeah, I agree that I do think that's a big A lot of times you'll just get that that girl, you know, and a lot of times it's the same as a really her heavy pressure pressured hunting units too. They kind of do the same thing to them, you know, they just let out that little girl at the end or just a little peep and then but way, Yeah, once you get in on them and you get them up and the other pushing, they'll get a lot more vocal. 00:16:54 Speaker 1: Nice. Now, if you work a bowl one day and you don't spook him, but you've what some calling pressure on him, how soon do you go back after that bowl? Let's say he's a pretty nice and you're like, man, I don't really want to get that bull. How soon you go back on that bull? 00:17:07 Speaker 2: Man? Immediately, I've really said, don't wait, because they're not going to be there tomorrow. You know, a lot of where I hunt, you go into an area, say you got a bull, be you going he's screaming? You don't. You don't get an opportunity at him that day. A lot of times you go in the next day both screaming in the same spot. That's not the same elk. A lot of times that bull's got his coys. He's three ridges away doing their big old circle like they do, and uh, it's another you know, another bowl in that same spot. That just seems like a lot of times that's what we see. 00:17:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So don't give them too much breathing room. Do you try to mix things up. Do you try to sound like a different elk the next time you go at them? You're like, I'm gonna take a different tube or different some different reads or something. 00:17:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, I owner, you know, I take it all or use it all. But uh, yeah I do. I do try to change it up. I try to definitely change up the way I do my sequences, you know, I try not to go at them with the same krow calls starting and stuff like that. Well, you know, they're they they're smart. It's tough tough to be about their own game. 00:18:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. I kind of agree. I definitely agree with what you said earlier about you want to be the first you wanted the first crack at that bowl. Like every time you haven't encounter with that bowl, man, your odds to me that your success go way down. Like the first time he's learning you, and then the second time's like, oh man, this is tough. 00:18:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the problem that I have where I hunt as I've hounted there for twenty something years, so they're all like, oh, that's Chris over there again. You know, he just grab this down. They're like, well, last year he didn't chase near this ridge, So I'm gonna go here and anger. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think they know me very well. 00:18:47 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's it. Yeah yeah the way he chuckles. Yeah, that's good. 00:18:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, September, it's August thirtieth. It's wrapped it again. 00:18:55 Speaker 1: Yeah. How much cow calling do you do? 00:19:11 Speaker 2: Quite a bit. I would say I have more success with bugling and chuckling and imitating bulls. But I mean I got a you know, probably a three to twenty both for a customer last year, and that was strictly three cow calls. I had called him in and he only gave us a front shout at ten yards. The hunter didn't shoot. We let him go over the hill. I gave him like probably an hour break, made sure the wind was good, and then I snuck right into his bedroom where he was down and bugling with his cows, and we just sat We had warm opening to make it happen. We sat down on a rock, just took our time. I read out three soft calls and we just sat there, and within twenty minutes he come with his note to the ground. I had no idea we were in americ couldn't worked out and butter. 00:19:55 Speaker 1: Man, that's awesome. You find that kind of just planting that seed. Sometimes may you do may not get a response right away, but those elk are hearing your calls, and if you give it some time to work, you find that that, like, eventually they'll show up a lot of times. 00:20:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, well a lot of times they come from so much further away than you expect. You're working the one below you, but it's across the cane, the three you weren't paying attention to. That sneak in on the end. Obviously, Patients is key. It's it's tough. I got better with age to be a little more patient, you know, but I'm pretty bad about just you know, grabbing my bow and be going trucking again. But you know, you run into them a lot of turns. Mm hmm. 00:20:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've man, I you sound just like me. The older I get. Yeah, I'm giving, I'm getting more patient. I'm like the least patient person ever. And man, I've I've learned. I've learned over the years and and especially as I think it's like, you know, the physicality of getting old too, it's like, oh yeah, I'm not as I'm not that as much of a stud as it used to be. I'm not a stud at all, but you know, honest have to slow down, take a little more time. And man, I had a bowl here a couple of years ago. I started on him in the morning, and you know, he bugled pretty decent. Then he went to bed super early, like at eight am, and I got up there, crawled in there, and I was probably sixty seventy yards from him most of the day in hiss betting area, and I'd call to him a little bit and he'd just kind of growl at me, and he didn't want to come over and check me out. But luckily I had the wind good all day, and finally in the evening shadow started getting long, he got up, started being more active, started calling, and a bowl from about as far away as you could hear. I could just be like, man, I think I heard a bugle, And then a little bit later, oh yeah, I do, hear a bugle over that way, and pressing that bolt starts coming. I mean, this thing's coming from a mile away, right, And he's bugling a lot more than the guy I'm with, right, And I'm trying to call to him, and he ain't taken my bait. He just kind of given those those mony bugles. Well, this other bowl he comes from a mile away, gets up there, he gets to about one hundred fifty yards from this bull I've been messing with all day. The bull I was with, you know, I'm you know, he's got just a wimpy bowl. Everybody'd be like, oh, I think at the five point he gives this Jurassic Park blood curdling I'm going to kill you scream at that bowl. Once he gets close now, and he charges off the hill and chases that bulk, screaming at him the whole way out of the drainage, up and over the up and over the ridge and completely gone. Like I was right between him. I thought, man, this could be a I didn't. I didn't even get to see either one during that whole show. You know, It's like, dang it, I thought for sure, doesn't kill that sucker. And he just chased out of the bull, completely out of here. He must have knew him. He's like, I don't. Yeah, I know. You get the hell out of here, you sucker. 00:22:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that before too. Where up the bowl ruins You're hot by chasing the smaller bull you were calling. 00:22:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so, but the but I feel like sometimes you don't even you don't even hear those bulls like a long distance until you know. I'm typically pretty quick, you know, I'll do in a matter of five minutes. When I'm locating, I'll do three bugles, a few cow calls, and listen. I'm like, all right, I don't hear nothing five minutes, let's go hike over to the next spot and call. Well, man, it seems like lately I've been kind of given, especially if I haven't heard no bulls, I'll just get I'll sit down for thirty minutes, and man, pretty soon, like way off in the distance, you'll hear one, and then they'll get closer and closer. So it's just like, man, sometimes I think they're a lot further away than you think they're going to be, and you just kind of let them get into ear shot, you know, for us, you know, I don't think we hear nearly like an auctoz. 00:23:39 Speaker 2: But yeah, there's no question about that. And they you know, a lot of times they get there past too. They could be there far away but only take some five minutes to get to where you didn't even hear them. But I've noticed since I've been a lot more patient the last several years, you definitely run into where the silent ones come in a lot more, you know, come all the way and a lot of times the silent one of the footers, you know. Like I said, that's the same reason I like that early feed. And I when I'm running for myself, I don't even hunt wear a guide because I don't want to screw up all those oak for where I'm giving. So you know, I try to say I got my spots, and then I got my guidepop, and I try to lead. 00:24:17 Speaker 1: Those alone for the client. Yeah, that's smart. Keep them fresh, keep them fresh for the clients. I can't. I mean, that's that's a that's a great tip for success there. I mean, that's good. Not to be selfish. So h here's a question. I hear this a lot from from hunters or you know, some will say, never call like a big bull. Always call like a squeaker bul. Some guys say, no, no, you want to call it a big bull. What's your take, man? 00:24:45 Speaker 2: I I don't know. I'm just thinking about this there day while watching you guys as uh in the salmon last last year. I might I think I do more small bulls than I do streaming streaming bowls. I think I'm not not like spike squeaks or any thing, but I'm not always getting rasty with everyone of them. One of the reasons is, you know, I hud an area where they're not always that fired up. You know, they're not always fighting with other bulls. They only have a couple of cows themselves, you know. So I think I always try to kind of sound the medium too small, you know, more than anything cool. But I found myself going to New Mexico and bowling as hard as I can. So it just earned different pactics for different places. 00:25:26 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, okay, here's here's a question, and we kind of I kind of talked about that a second ago. Can you judge a bu bul by his bugle? 00:25:40 Speaker 2: No, not a chance. And honestly, an Idaho where I hunt, I feel like anything with a growl is always the herd ball and immature. But I went down to New Mexico and I got rude awakening really quick day one because I was going after the growlers and rastiness every time and every I'd get in there and to be a four by four or four by five I got dupe. The big bulls weren't talking, you know, it didn't even make a peep, and a lot of the smaller ones were screamers. So I think where I hunt, you know, where I guide, I'm a lot better at judging by their bagle than I am. Other points about that. 00:26:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I I think I think you're right. That's been my experience too with New Mexico and in north Side hosts. Like some of that north Side host stuff, you're like, you hear a bowl that's just like they got that sound like, okay, that's an old bowl. Like there's I mean, there's some some pretty pissed off five points that can sound pretty pretty tough and pretty raspy. But man, some of those old suckers, it's like, oh yeah, that's definitely an old bowl. 00:26:40 Speaker 2: Almost of the time in North Side, I know there's only one of those in that area. You know, it's right right Mexico, and there's several you know, yep. 00:26:54 Speaker 1: So would you say, and you kind of hit on this a little bit, are you more aggressive or more of a passive elk hunter? As in, do you do you dive in it right after him? Or do you kind of let the situation develop over time, or maybe you kind of do both. 00:27:11 Speaker 2: I would say a little bit of bowl, but man, I'm done it so long and I'm not the same area. The bulls are kind of consistent. Uh. If you ever talk to my best friend Aaron, he'll tell you he's like, anytime you know, a bowl of beatles across the canyon, like that one's killable. I don't know what it is that tells me that, what makes me think that it's just years of experience or what you know, a lot of times I'm right, it's just the way they're talking, you know, the way they've an area down, the way they're acting around the cows, the way they're acting around other elks. Like I said, I think the number one thing is just getting in close and not trying until you're you're in their bedroom. They're a lot more uh you know, they feel a lot more comfortable coming in that last I've been trying to call them from. 00:27:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm the same. Like I think a lot of a lot of hunters kind of they get kind of I call it the wallflower syndrome. So they finally get a bold a bugle and they're like, oh man, a bowl, and then they kind of like hesitate, they hang back and they're like, oh man, what do I do? And and a lot of times, but I think, you know, you have to get within a certain distance of elk to like really have an impact where okay, we can elevate this conversation with hisself to where he wants to come in. 00:28:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, and let me touch base on two where we hunt is really brushy and everything is loud. If you were trying to tippy toe and walk the blow downs, they know you're not a bowoak, you know what I mean. I mean, I'm jumping on the boat out. I'm crashing through my buddy Aaron, who I'm calling for. He's he's held back, he hesitant. You know, we're in our run route past him, and then he gets behind me, and then I get into that range and you know, Aaron back out in front of me. But I think people are too quiet at times for the country. I like to make noise all its's of the time. I can't tell you how many times they come into the noise you're making more than you're calling, you know, Yeah, yeah, I mean they come in as sometime as the best of me as you know, as I am to them. 00:29:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's this one spot. Every time I've been there in September, there's there's bulls down this big debt, big deep, nasty hole. And it don't matter what way you go into it. 00:29:19 Speaker 2: The wind is. 00:29:20 Speaker 1: Always screwy, right, And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try this way, I'm gonna try that way. But i mean every time, you know, and this place is this right off of a road, you know, but it's this, you know, fifteen hundred vertical feet dropped down into this crap hole and there's always bulls down there. And they know this because there's a pull out there. Everybody pulls over and bugles from this pull out, right, so they're just like, all right, here's another dude up there. So they're all right, everybody take your places. Get ready to smell them. 00:29:46 Speaker 2: Man. 00:29:46 Speaker 1: I've tried everything, Like I'll stop in one spot and bugle, and by the end of season, like if you bugle from the turnout, they won't answer. But if you walk over the hill and cut around three hundred yards, they'll screw their head off at you. It's funny. They get really conditioned, as you know, so, but it don't matter how how what side of this, it's a big drange what side of the drainage. I'll get him talking. I'm like, all right, let's get out of here. Let's go circle around, go over, drop in on them, and man as quite as you think you are, Like, all right, when we get down in there and you pop a few sticks. Man, them suckers every time they hear me coming and they're like, oh, there's a bowl, you know. They come over and they catch me. I'm like, oh go, I'll be on the other side of the drainage from where I heard the bugles, and I'll start coming down. Well, I make some pop brush pops. Pretty soon you get down towards the bottom of the drainage there, that sucker is wins me every time, and man like back to your point. Just like man, they they hear that and they think, oh, yeah, that's another elk. A. I have a hunting buddy that used to hunt with a lot and he's like, oh, you're making too much noise. They know we're not elk. I'm like, dude, they think we're elk. Let's make let's make lots of noise. He's like, no, no, that bull hurt you. He he thought you were a person, Like, no, he didn't. 00:31:06 Speaker 2: There I should see some of my hunter's looks that I get. When I'll grab a stick and just be raking it down the breast, you make more noise, like I'm moral, and I mean a lot of times it really works. Le's see where I am. And like I said, with their kind of call sye over wolves, they come to the sound of brush breaking. It's unreal, you know, And I imagine they you know, when just just when their moose are walking and then they're full. Were a guarantee that come to moose walking through the woods, even just because. 00:31:36 Speaker 1: Do you ever this is off topic elk, Well not really, but kind of do you ever? As you're hunting for elk, you're bugling, bugling. Pretty soon you start hearing Oh and here comes a moose, a bull moose. He's like, yeah, he don't like your bugling around here. I've had him come in, like, you know, to chase me out of there. They don't. They don't want that bull elk bugling around there or something. I guess. I don't know you ever had that. 00:31:59 Speaker 2: I have, Yeah, And one time there was actually snow on the ground, and I thought I was calling in an elk, but I'm like, this does not sound right, And that's exactly what happened. The bull came in trying to push me out, and I mean there was aggress that they ran uside of the woods pretty much. Yeah, yeah, late, so you're in it snowed. So the bull just went quiet and the yeah a mood. Look what I called in. 00:32:20 Speaker 1: My brother in law. He was sitting in a tree stand and doing a little bit of calling, and this big, big bull moose come up and started walking around his stand, and the thing would just rub and rub, you know, drake's horns. And finally it's getting dark. He's like, I gotta get out of here. So he climbs down. Well, he's packing a pistol. He starts walking up this trail back to He's got about a mile and a half hike back to his pickup. This moose is following him. He sees it like he sees a dude walking. That moose just follows him. Every time he'd stop and turn around, it would stop and just stare at him and go over and rub a tree or whatever. He's like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to kill this moose. So he's got his pistol cocked and ready to go in case he's gonna try, and it's fallen from like twenty yards away. It follows him all the way back to his pickup, and he's like, I'm freaked out. I gotta get the hell out of here. So he took off, and then I met him later that night and he's telling me the story. I'm like, eh, the freaking moose and you didn't have a moose follow you that far. We get to his camper and this is no shit. There were moose rubs all around his camper. That thing stood around his camper, just destroying these little trees. I'm like, holy cow, I can't believe that thing. He's like, man, he's like, it wasn't a little one. It's like a trophy moose. He's like, man, if a guy had a moose tag, he'd be able to kill that thing. But we didn't see no guys with moose tags. 00:33:37 Speaker 2: But yeah, I sell all my customers when they're worried about bears, cats and wolves. I'm like, y'all, I think in our wood you need to worry about the Syris Moose. Thank you. 00:33:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that. So you talked about New Mexico, Well, how much different is hunting New Mexico to hunt North Idaho? I know the answer from my perspective. 00:34:02 Speaker 2: Uh, to be honest with So, the first couple of years I went down, we had really good luck calling the bulls, and you know, I was calling them and left and right. My problem was not being picky enough, and I was shooting too early on the hunt. Uh. And then the last time I went down that was on the heel, and I got humbled drastically. We couldn't call in anything. Those bulls were just I mean they had bugle, they asked, but they were running away the entire time, you know. And there's just got to the point where you just drop your backpack, carry your bow, release and arrows and just a romb and gun. The easiest I noticed by the end I was it's easier to cut them off and try chasing them, try to get in front of them is definitely the way to hunt those out. 00:34:40 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, do you did you find that? At least for where I was at New Mexico. You hear boths bugle are like, oh yeah, there is right over there, and you go set up, you know, like and then you hear them bugle again, and they're like way further away than you ever thought. Like the sound travels so much differently. 00:34:58 Speaker 2: Yeah that and they moved so fast. And what I've really and not even at a run, just walking away from you, it is impossible to give up the better health out your own. And what I noticed here or there is when you think they're coming closer, they get louder. That's only because they went through the canyon in front of you and they're coming up the other side, so they're one le mountain aware. So every time they get wilder, you're like, oh, he's coming, He's coming. You get ready. Nope, that was just increesting the you know ridge to go over the next one. 00:35:25 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, uh yeah, it's it's it's a different play. New Mexico is definitely different. And I've heard all sorts of advice. There's some guys never bugle, do now ever, bugled only cow call. I tried that and they the bulls wouldn't even answer my cow call. And they okay, only use a open read cow call, you know, like you know they'll bite and blow style. Okay, I'm blue on that, Like, yeah, I didn't really seem to trip their trigger and then I'd bugle out the boom they'd answer. So but it almost kind of depend on the day too, like not every day was the same. You know, you chase them for a day or two and like you do bugles in the next day, then it was it was a lot different. 00:36:08 Speaker 2: I've hunted a couple of different units, and one thing I will say is they've never seen the same bowl twice in New Mexico. Oh you know, even going into the same area after a big whatever three fifty boll we saw, I've never seen the same bowlt toy. And all my times upon the balry, it just seems like they're on a big circle, you know, and who knows where they are the next day. 00:36:29 Speaker 1: From my experience, yeah, I saw that too. They're always on a big circuit. And the last place I hunted New Mexico is close to an Indian reservation. I was hunting the edge of that, and every day there was less and less bugles on my side of the fence and more of them on their side of the fence. Is like, man, I better get this done, or there's all the elker going to be over on the other side where I can't hunt. 00:36:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, yeah, yeah. 00:36:58 Speaker 1: You could just hear the chaos on the on the on the res side, just they would go in behind a ridge and you couldn't see what was going on, but man, it sounded like there was forty bulls back there just screaming all day long. And you're like, man, I wish I could just see it. Didn't you have a drawn or nothing. 00:37:15 Speaker 2: I kind of a funny story hunting that same Indian reservation line that you were. I called I had we spotted the three forty five three fifty bowl right on the edge with thirty eight cows standing right all the fence on and I just messed with my buddy and I said, I bet you money, I can call that bull over here to you. I was already tagged out, so I didn't have a bowl or tag and he's like, no, you can't, and I'm like and I really didn't think I could. But I was just you know, talks and playing with it, and Carl went a wild me and it sounded like the old Primos team behind them, you know, getting treated break that bull. Left all thirty eight cows and jump part fence and came right to our side, and he tried a frontal shot on it, and I watched them whirl around and basically look at us the whole way. He was walking back and I was like, that's not good. Jump the fence back to his cows and the the DNR or whatever. The Indian drove us around for two days looking for that bowl. And you should see the trophies we got to see that are on the other side of the fence. 00:38:15 Speaker 1: Oh god, it was like a tour. 00:38:17 Speaker 2: It was the funnest thing I've ever done. I mean, there was giants everywhere. 00:38:21 Speaker 1: Dang it. That's cool to be able to see behind the curtain. 00:38:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. 00:38:27 Speaker 1: Sorry your buddy didn't get his bull though. What's your take on frontal shots, man? 00:38:32 Speaker 2: I you know, I tried to. I try to tell them all my customers to not even chant it. Have I killed several that way myself? Yeah? I have. I definitely think it's a legal shot if you hit him in the right spot. I think, my buddy, that one was two quartered and I think you hit him in the front and it came out behind the shoulder and missed the viral completely. There really wasn't much of a blood trail at all, and I mean it was false. It was like nine air eleven yards or something like that. Waited losing that ome. Yeah, I'm kind of I go both ways on you know, I don't recommend it, but at the same time, I'll payk one. 00:39:06 Speaker 1: Right, right. I think. I think hunters, you know, just have to be honest with themselves in the moment, you know. And I feel like every bowl that comes into me, I I'm not ic in my veins every time. I'm not and I'm not like jacked up every time too. It's like every time it's a little different. And there's been times where I've been pretty excited when it out comes in. It's like there'd be no way in hell I'd be able to execute a good frontal shot. And other times it'd be like, oh, yeah, this is good. Like I shot a bowl frontal ones, I had my bow drawn back, I could see his horns coming, and he popped out of the brush and he literally walked his chest right into my pin. I'm like, all right, he's eighteen yards. It's just perfectly shot. And he ran over there tipped over dead in forty seconds. You know. It was like, holy cow, I can't believe it. But then I get over there. I thought he was perfectly straight frontal. Well, I get over there, and my arrow, you know, it didn't penetrate very far. I'm like, what the heck. Well, I'd hit his like corroded artery juggler whatever it is, there in the neck. I'd hit him there instead of down the pipe, down the hole, you know, the thracic opening there. And uh, he wasn't quite as straight on as I thought, And I was just aiming in the wrong spot, but luckily I got him. But but still, like you, it's it's a it's a can of worms to to try to do. I don't know. I did kind of a quartering shot on a really big bull up in North Idaho one year, called him into like five yards, like oh, I watched Jason Phelps shoot a ball on YouTube just like this in the same in the same spot. I'm gonna go ahead and shoot him right there. And I didn't hit the right spot and it didn't penetrate good. It like hit the tip of a shoulder or something, shoulder bone or something, and uh, he ran off and I tracked him for like, oh a mile and a half and never get in. The blood dried up well. The next day I was in there looking at I hear him bugle. He had a really distinct bugle back to those. He didn't have any high pitch due he his bugle at all. It's just like, oh, yeah, that's him, that's him again. So I answer him at bugle at him never I'd never heard another word of him. He's probably like, that's a son of a bitch that shot me. 00:41:17 Speaker 2: Uh. I agree with that. I think a lot of people don't really pay attention exactly how the body is standing when they come in frontal. They always think it's facing straight on. So many times it's quartered hard. You see him in the chest, and then it comes up with shouldery you know, and missus the behind the shouldered and misses the vitals completely. I definitely think more you need to pay attention exactly how that don't good standing. I think that is a problem with people losing frontos a lot. 00:41:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you had to pick one call to use all season, and if you said, okay, this is all you get, are you going to pick a cow call or a bugle perceptible. Okay, yeah, me too. I mean I use a cal call a lot. You know, I cal call pretty heavy, but I google more than a cal caol. But it's almost like, I'm like, all right, there's cows over here. I want to give you a reason to come over and fight. Like, sure, you want to fight, you know, if you can get them to fight without any cow calls or whatever. But I want them to think there's a good reason there to come over and fight and beat this bowl. There's cows here, there's something to win over. 00:42:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do it all. I do. Think I would say if I, you know, added up, you know what works the best throughout a season for me. I I really do chuckle in a lot of them, you know what I mean? A lot of times it's copying what they're doing or imitating them, but I I really do call in a lot of elk with chuckles. A lot of people don't like it or you know, say it doesn't work for them. But I think if you're you know, you're good, and you practice a lot, and I just think there's not a lot of people out there that can chuckle great. And then I just don't you know, if you're hunting a pressured area. They'll come to chuckle before google can alcohol a lot of times. Yeah, and that's my opinion obviously. 00:43:08 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I agree with you. You know, there's there's some there's some information out there nowadays. You know, there's a there's a guy, he's a good friend of mine, and he's like, never chuckle at a bowl, you know, never ever chuckle the ball. Always just do like he calls it a bull calling cow's bugle. He does a scream, kind of a short scream, which does work too, but he's like, never chuckle a bull. But man, I just like you. I've chuckled in so many bulls with chuckling only and then bugling and chuckling. Seems like some bulls just chuckle a lot, and they like it when you chuckle at him, like there they you know, they get mad when you chuckle back at him, where some bulls don't chuckle a lot. I kind of just go with what the bull's doing. 00:43:53 Speaker 2: Percent I do that exact same thing, and I really do try to copy him and you know, imitate it on those much as possible, and they just they get irritated. They don't like that. 00:44:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I try not to get I don't try to take my aggression or my vibe any higher than theirs. I try to like keep it at the same, if not a little less, especially if it's early in the conversation or early in the argument, whatever you want to say. My son, he was trying to tell his wife about, you know, what elk calling is all about, and she's like, I don't get it. He's like, well, you're basically arguing with an elkie, you know, until you get him mad enough to come fight. He's She's like, okay, you're you're having an argument with a wild animal. Oh okay, Like I never thought of that before. I was like, that's funny, you know for me, Yeah, from people who are who aren't elk hunters or callers, like, it's a it's a funny perspective. But yeah, that's that's pretty accurate. But anyway, Yeah, I like to try to match their their their intensity, you know, I don't and I like I like to let them kind of like escalate first before I escalate. 00:45:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I probably should have said that earlier when you asked me if I'm a big bull bugler kind of a smaller I kind of do what they do more than anything, you know, I kind of I should have said that, you know, leave it up to the bowl. I'm kind of you know, you know, imitate and like we were talking about. 00:45:19 Speaker 1: Right, I found some of those really big old growler bowls. If I try to bugle wimpy at them, they're just like, yeah, I'm not really interested. But I start bringing the same heat, the same intensity as they're giving. They're like, Okay, yeah, this guy's a possible rival here. I'm going to tell him to shut his mouth. 00:45:38 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's different everywhere you hunt. Like I said, I wearn a lot. I learn every day, same thing as you said, we get to learn. I mean, you learn every single day you're out there. But I definitely think I'm better at honey elk in my ear than I have other dates. 00:45:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh I agree, Yeah, I'm the same, same, same. There are some some cool places to hunt out that that are similar, Like Wyoming. It's you know, a lot of the elk there like to fight. At least the places I've gone they like to. They want to fight. Montana some of the place I've been in Montana. Man, it's tough. It's tough. Well, just finding bulls, it'll bugle the haven't just been molested, you know, by the general public. It's tough, so you know, finding those little pockets and bulls that want to fight, it's it's a lot tougher, well for at least for me. I think once a guy cracks that code and kind of gets his spot dialed in and knows, you know, has elk that like to fight, and then they haven't been pressured a lot, I think it could be really, really good, But I just haven't found that spot yet. 00:46:34 Speaker 2: I kind of have a little bit of an advantage owning mules. So what I like to do is hit all the roadsides stuff early and the easy stuff that I know that everyone's going to come in and massacre. I try to be the first one and all that stuff, you know, and and then I go to the back country and mules later in the season, so I can kind of get away from people or the pressured elk anyway, maybe not people get away from the call. So kind of a kind of cheating a little bit, But mules are a blessing. 00:47:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, if I said I wasn't jealous, I'd be lying, Yeah, that's that's awesome. I wish. I wish my legs would be able to take me to those places. 00:47:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's kind of funny. I don't really use them to help for myself. I'm pretty hard hit. It'll usually walk anywhere. But once you're guid and you know, the clients can't go as good, so you gotta use them as much as. 00:47:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to keep them in the game. You don't want to burn them out the first day or two. Yeah, So let's talk about October a little bit. October tenth in your country is the opener, isn't it. 00:47:36 Speaker 2: Yep? That's opay. 00:47:38 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you guys get any bugles that first week season? 00:47:42 Speaker 2: Yes, it all depends on the weather. A lot of times we'll get a snow between October first and tenth when the season's closed, and that shuts everything right down where I if you got beautiful weather sixty seventies, they'll still be talking a little bit. Uh Am, I gonna run around trying to call him in every day. No, I've prayer at them for the full month beforehand, so I try to just use the locate, you know, and then set up cross bridges, you know, and shoot across at them. But those big bulls. Typically by the end for me, the big bulls have already left their cows. You got some of the smaller six points of five points running all the cows around. Usually you get on a big one, you'll find them by themselves that time of the year in my area. So hey, it just depends on how picky the hunter is, whether you know, we'll try to stay with the cows if you just want to shoot a decent bull, or if we're trophy hunting. You know, I'm looking for those single bowls that are off on their own, trying to hit the real back country, getting like from the roads. 00:48:37 Speaker 1: And so yeah, yeah, I've kind of had that same experience. It seems like that that that big shitty weather or snow that that happens between September and October tenth really does some some something for that calling like usually always bad. It'll be going good and then it just shuts them down. 00:49:00 Speaker 2: I'd see those hunts on TV where her streaming in the snow. I guess they're jealous because I've never seen that they don't. Maybe one time ever I had a good three twenty three thirty bulls streaming in the snow. But most of the time they shut right down, and where I am, they'll actually migrate out too. You get too much snow, you know. Ever since the ninety five ninety six winter, they don't mess around with snow. They got it in their heads. Now. No, it starts to fly, they start walking out. But then you got to hunt a whole different area guiding, you know, we got to go down down in elevation. 00:49:30 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had bulls the opening week bugling like crazy. At one time, I had a little snow come in and they were cracking off a little bit. My son and I we were following them around and this bull was bugling every little bit and just never could catch him. It's like, oh, and then he kind of started doing money bugles from one spot for a while. All right, they're bedding down right here, so let's just sit down and wait them out. Let's wait till you know, this evening, afternoon whatever they start getting active again. Maybe well, you know, the sun was coming out and the snow was dripping out of the trees, like okay, you only had a skiff, you know, So we sat down and pretty soon it's like, ah, my son, you know, he was I don't know, fifteen or something at the time, and he lays down. Pretty soon he's sleeping. I'm like, I might kick back and take a little nap too. It's pretty early morning, and we got up. So I'm sleeping and I'm rudely awoken by hoof beats and I look up just to see this freaking dandy like three hundred inch bowl just running by. I'm like, oh God, So I shake him like well, I grabbed my bolt, my bugle right away and just scream and I shake Austin awake. I'm like, get up, get up, there's a bull. So I get him stud up and and I kind of seen where the bull went, and I got him by the shoulders, like you know, driving my son right to where okay, stand right here. Pretty soon he raised his rifle and puts it raised his rifle and puts it raisy rifle, boom shoots. I'm like, I couldn't see the bull. I'm like, did you get in my Oh yeah, but I didn't hear no flopping around or nothing. I'm like, it was just silent, huh. And all of a sudden, that bull just takes off running. So we give a little bed I'm like, where did you shoot? He's like in the neck. I'm like, were you steady? He's like, f no, I wasn't wasn't steady. You just woke me up. So I go over there. I start following tracks, and there's not a bit of blood. He completely missed him this deep shot at like, I know, ten fifteen yards, so that's a pretty tough shot anyway. I think you probably see hair in the scope and you just jerk the trigger. But I start following tracks and follow he just plowing, you know, down the hill and then hit the crick and went up the other side. And yeah, there's no blood. I'm like, well, that opportunity was gone. But like we'd like set there for two hours and hadn't made a peep in two hours. But what that bull did, for my best calculations is he put his girls to bed, and then he'd be like, you know, I heard that other bowl over there, I heard some cow calls, I'm gonna go check that out, and you just come over there quiet, you know, walked right up on us and stared as sleeping. So that's one other reason why I kind of, you know, back to that point of like give it things some time and be patient. 00:52:12 Speaker 2: Man. 00:52:13 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can just be patient and they'll just come back to you. 00:52:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. That reminds me of the time a couple of years ago I had a rifle hunter. He shot at this bullet six hundred yards on the dot. It shot fifteen times. I never even had that many bullets with him. This birrel stayed eating under being down to like fire. I think we got to five hundred and thirty two yards and literally on shot fifteen was the only time it even picked up a legger's head. And I'm like, you might have hit him on the last shot. So we're like, Rob, we'll give it two or three hours to die. We're kind of in a big bowl. And we sat there two hours later. That bowl had done a whole loop around the bowl. We're just sitting there about dozing off, deciding what time we're going to go look for blood. And I heard hood's an antler crashing below us, you know, on our side of the canyon. Ye, what was that? And I said, I'm pretty sure that was your bowl, and that bowl just yeah, he fed all the way around the canyon. We never touched him at five hundred. From six hundred to five hundred and thirty yards. That guy missed every shot with a He had a three hundred, but he only had a three by Erne and scope and it was not enought. 00:53:25 Speaker 1: Old Kentucky wind. Did you I guess? 00:53:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, I roote down. It is gone. And the first thing that came out of my mouth was, oh, no, we're gonna miss. 00:53:36 Speaker 1: That's hilarious. So once the bugling's over once, once you can't hear bugles anymore during October, what are you doing? Are you just glassing? Is it a glass? 00:53:49 Speaker 2: Yeah? That point, Yeah, a lot of glass. And where I'm at in the north Sideaho, there's a lot of meadows and glades that they especially when the weather changes. Hopefully not the snow. A lot of times we'll get rain right after that, and I like the stormier wetter days. It's usually always foggy, so that's you're contending with the fog. But once the fog clears, a lot of glasses in those meadows, they look gae I say meadows, they look like meadows. Most of them are brush fields. You have to be shooting from one side to the neck, you know. But I try to find them in those older fields, you know, And m stuff like that. I don't do too much calling after the first week of bright well. 00:54:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I had a question. What was it. So once the do you find like, once you get a lot of the leaves off that brush to it makes it a lot easier spot them. 00:54:43 Speaker 2: Oh it's night and day. 00:54:44 Speaker 1: Man. 00:54:44 Speaker 2: The years that we have real warm weather, it cuts my success in half. Honestly with the leaves being on. The worst for me is when all the leaves turn yellow, because everything looks you know, it really does. It cuts my success right in half. You know, knows those leaves fall off, I can see so much more. 00:55:01 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so typically that by the time, you know, end of October, by the the last week or so, then you're like, man, you know you can usually count on some of them leaves being gone. 00:55:13 Speaker 2: Yeah. It seems like if you get a snow or like I said, that real cold, late season rain, they'll leave the leave a lot that you know, they call up a lot quickly. 00:55:23 Speaker 1: So a lot of people that have a hunted country like that, they don't understand that that rain in North Idaho rain like how long are you dry from the time you step out of the tent so you step into the brush like. 00:55:39 Speaker 2: So for me, it's we started saddling our mules at two fifty am, so usually about three o'clock I've already got a couple of mules saddled. I'm soaked from that point all I don't even try to go change back in different angers. It's like, you know, I just we as long as they stay were all day, it's fine. You know. Once I'm wet, I'm wet. It suck to get wet at first, but there, just do it in the dark. Can suffer all there. 00:56:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, keep moving, keep warm. Do you find like on those downpour days, like once it finally does like quit and the sun comes out a little bit, man, the elk just pop out. 00:56:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like for sure they move right after the storm is the best for us. The worst is when you get that bluebird days for seven days straight, you know, when it's seventy degrees there, nothing moves like, you don't even see no clear dose at that time. You know, it's crazy how the wood just shuts down. 00:56:31 Speaker 1: Everything turns into a vampire at that point. 00:56:33 Speaker 2: Yeah. And the other thing I really haven't said much about, like for rif Fonton in my country, and you said earlier about bulls going to bed early at eight o'clock. It's like for me, I have that last forty five minutes before dark and I only have an hour in the morning. A lot of times in rifle season, it's really tough. They did not move all day like some states, you know, it's different, and they bed out so early whom it almost doesn't give you a chance A lot of times. 00:56:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially on those blue bird days, like like you say, you're just like, you're just nothing. You'd there's not a living creature out here that Those are frustrating days. Man, You're like, man, why can't I even turn up with your dough? 00:57:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's it's uh, you know, it's bittersweet because you love having a nice weather. You're not getting snowed and rain now, but you've seen nothing. Yeah, it's just really slow and that actually that's what happened to us the first week last year, and then second week the weather rolled in. We smacked some nice bowler up about. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. 00:57:33 Speaker 1: So do you have any cool hunts lighting up this fall? Are you getting the old home turf there? 00:57:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. I am just hunting elk and Idaho, and I'll probably do hunt and I'm Plahoma, but that's pretty much it. Uh oh. I got a guy in two weeks, well, kind of three weeks. One of my best friends with me every year, but I take him hunting, so pretty much hunt by myself for one week, hunt with my best friend one week, and then huh uh, and then guide the rest of the sea. 00:58:00 Speaker 1: So oh yeah. 00:58:01 Speaker 2: It seems like every year I get a little less time because I get these repeat customers that want to keep coming back, and it's so hard to tell them no, I'm using my days of elk. 00:58:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, are you a one man band or do you have other guides that help you? 00:58:17 Speaker 2: Now I have other guides. I'll usually run three elk guides and then there'll be a bear guide in camp at the same time. In the fall, we do our Archeril cunts at the same time as fall bear, so it's just two weeks of four Archeril hunters and two weeks of four fall bear hunters at the same time. 00:58:33 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I was going to ask you about your fall bear. If you guys run any fall fall bear. 00:58:37 Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, not many, just a yeah. That's all over bit and Uh. It makes a nice having the bear guide in camp at the same time too, because it gives you one more person to help you pack out and ELK. If you get one in an l you know, yeah, just more hands to help it'll go. 00:58:55 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well that's awesome. Well, man, I appreciate you coming on today. Is there anything else you can think of you want to talk about on on? 00:59:04 Speaker 2: Uh? 00:59:04 Speaker 1: Hunting ELK and calling ELK? 00:59:06 Speaker 2: No, I think I I think I did pretty good. I didn't forget as much of what I did last time. 00:59:14 Speaker 1: I know how it is. You get out into a conversation or you get in a podcast and talk about something, then an hour later you're like, man, I should have talked about this or that. 00:59:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, after our last month a lot, but it came to mind. But I think I did a little better this time. 00:59:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he did great. He did good both times. But well, where can people find you? If they want to look you up? 00:59:34 Speaker 2: Okay, on Facebook you can look up Rustle Pond and dbar c Outfitters, or on Instagram, and then we have a website well www. Dot russell Pond dot com. Or if you just want to see the stuff that I'm going you can follow me Chris cabral on Facebook or Instagram. 00:59:53 Speaker 1: Yeah cool cool, Well, thanks man, appreciate you having on having you on the show and look forward to seeing your success. 01:00:00 Speaker 2: Is Faul that happened? Thanks, Thanks a lot, It's always good talking to you, dude. 01:00:05 Speaker 1: Heck yeah yeah, we'll catch everybody on the flip flock m m m m hm 01:00:22 Speaker 2: H