00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this episode number one and today the show, we are joined by Levi Morgan. Levi is one of the most accomplished archers and ball owners in the world, and in our conversation today we're gonna be discussing his keys to becoming a better archer and deer hunter, and we're going into some really interesting detail. All right, folks, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sick Gear, and today, as I just mentioned, I'm joined by Levi Morgen and Levi, if you're not familiar, it's quite possibly the most accomplished archer in the world today on the archery tournament circuit. The latest numbers i've seen show him being named the shooter of the year ten times. I think it was ten times in the row actually, and he's also won multiple world titles. And from a hunting standpoint, Levi has been all over the world hunting, including a lot of white tail states. He's got a lot of white tail experience and himself and his wife. They host the Bowlife TV show. So today my conversation with Levi is going to be split into two halves. First, we're gonna takes some time to talk about his two thousand seventeen hunting season and some of the different lessons he's learned from a deer hunting perspective, some different ideas from a tactic and strategy standpoint that might be helpful to everybody. And then secondly, we're gonna take some time to dive deep into archery, which is something that Levi is especially and uniquely UM I think prepared to talk about and help us better understand. So we'renna get his perspective on both setups and arrows and accessories, um, how to practice better, different drills to try, um different ways to improve accuracy, how to handle the mental aspects of bow hunting and shooting a bow, you know, handling the moment of truth, A lot of stuff along those lines. And trust me on this one, you're gonna enjoy it. I really enjoyed this conversation. And usually at this point this is where we would have our little pregame discussion between my co host Dan and myself but Dan couldn't make this episode, so we're just gonna have to put off our dad life conversation until next time. And uh, speaking of dad life, well, you know what, actually, I guess for those of you who don't follow Wired to Hunt on Instagram or Facebook, I'm just gonna I'm gonna make you guys waited out another week before we talk about anything related to um my life outside of hunting. We've got a little bit of news, but me and Dan will talk about it here next time. And I guess, speaking of that, I will use this as an opportunity for some shameless plugs here since we've got a little time, um speaking social media, if you're not following Wired to Hunt on social media, please go ahead and go do that. That is the best way to stay up to date on what I've got going on, new things coming out from Wired Hunt, interesting things going on in my hunting and outdoor ventures. So Facebook is a great place to find that you're in a Wired Hunt on Facebook page. Wired to Hunt on Instagram, that is one of my most active platforms, and lately I'm doing a lot of Instagram stories where I'm sharing um, especially right now in the off season I'm going back and looking back on some of my hunts and inventors in the past year, and I'm sharing kind of a little photo stories and that's kind of a neat way to recap some of these recaps and these things I've done. So be sure to check out my Instagram account and Twitter, UM you'll get all sorts of updates there as well. Speaking of plugs, if you wouldn't mind, if you've got the time, if you could leave a rating or review on iTunes, it would be incredibly appreciated, very very very helpful and does not take much time at all. You can do it in thirty seconds a minute. Just let us know what you think about the podcast us let other people know what you think about the podcast. UM. That can help us do better things and connect with the right people. So thank you in advance for doing that. So, with all that out of the way, let's take a very short break here for our sick of Gear story of the day, and then we're gonna get right into this very interesting conversation with Levi Morgan. For this week's Sicko story, we're joined by Darton Hardwick, who tells us about his hunt for a triple beam buck. So it was the second day of rifle season in Pennsylvania. I just came home from work and I went into the garage and talked to my grandpa a little bit, and I decided to since it was about an hour left before dark, I would go out for a little while. And I went to a spot where I know dear like across this ravine, and I just stood on the four wheeler path there and across the ravine there's a field, and the buck actually came out on the far side of that field where my stand from opening day was that because I was knew I was hunting his whole core area. But I settled in and I pulled the trigger and just dropped the buck right there in the field, and I was real pumped up on Darton Hunt. He was wearing sick Of Straatus system. If you'd like to create a sick Of story of your own, or to learn more about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit Sitka gear dot com. Alright, when the now on the line is Levi Morgan. Welcome to show Leva. Hey, Mark, thank you. I'm appreciate the opportunity to be on you. Yeah, absolutely and definitely appreciate you taking the time to do it. And before before we gave you a call, gave our listeners just a little bit of a background as to some of your accomplishments and what you're doing these days. But I'd love to hear about that from you before we go any further. Can you kind of give us the story of how you got to this point where you're you're hosting your own show. You're one of the top archers in the world. Um, and at at a darn young age, how did this all happen? Uh? You know, my dad was a big bow hunter. That's kind of where it all started. When I was five years old. Um, I started kind of tagging along with him, going to local three D shoots and uh, just slinging arrows and and started winning local tournaments. And then from there, I guess dad just saw something in me, and you know, I I wanted to kind of take that to the next level. So we when I was six, we went to a world championship in Flatwood, West Virginia, the Ideal World Championship, and I tied for first there and so it just kind of, you know, fell in love with the game of archery. I guess you know, Dad is a huge bow hunter, but I love competition in assence. Well, heck, I was five or six years old, so I fell in love with that part of it and then just won a lot of an amateur growing up. And um, when I turned eighteen, I um just decided to dive in headfirst and turn pro. And yeah, once Shot of the Year at nineteen, World Championship at nineteen, and just kind of went from there. But the passion that always drove it was was hunting, and so, um, I wanted to do something that because I was when I was one and Samantha we're just getting together. We had house payments and everything was riding on winds and I had to win to to pay our bills and it was pretty stressful, and so yeah, I wanted something that, you know, we could actually kind of have a budget and make a living still doing what we loved. And the support I had from that allowed us to kind of move into the TV side of things, which Lord's thinking that was a stable job was kind of funny now looking back, but we've been we've been very blessed and kind of here we are, you know, ten years or no, See, this is my twelve year of the pro this year, so the times flying by. Wow. If if you had if you had to pick one of the two, if someone put a gun to your head and said you could only be a professional termin archer or you could only be a bow hunter and a TV to make your living, if you had to choose one of those two, what do you think you'd have to questions? Yeah, bo hunt? Yeah, you know, I shoot tournaments and enjoy the competition, but I love the bohunt bohunt every day. It never gets old. I miss it as soon as the last day of the season comes around. So I would definitely choose bow hunting. That would be a really easy choice for me. I think that was That's a good answer. So how this How did this two thousand seventeen season go for you? It was awesome. We started UM up in Northwest Territories because I am chasing the Super Slam. When I won UM eight Shooter of the un a Row a few years ago and broke that record, it was kind of like a this record that had kind of hung over my head, and so when that was up, I was like, what am I gonna do now? You know? And so I decided I wanted to chase the super Slam and and so I started that track. And so I've been trying to do some injured hunts every year because I grew up a whitetail guy. That's all I've ever did. That's my favorite, you know, it's what I know, and and on the East Coast, that's just what we did growing up, and so it was cool getting to go out and you know, experience other parts of the world. So we started in Northwest Territory this year doing Yukon moose and mountain cariboo. UM shot a really good moose and a good cariboo there. So came home, went to Wyoming and newly antelope. Samantha killed the nice whitetail Woming and then we just started pounding whitetails and UM, I didn't kill anything giant or enormous this year, but we shot a lot of really good deer and a lot of old deer. So I've always been a quantity guy. You know, You've got guys like Lee and Mark Drury and shooting two hundreds all the time. I'm just trying to kill as many as I can, and not all of us can can break the two mark every year, that's for sure, right, no doubt. Maybe one day I'll be able to pass at one fifty, but not at the moment. So so I just went on my first caribou hunt this past year two and that was a pretty incredible experience. And now that you've been able to do more of these adventure hunts around the country of the world, Um, when you look at that compared to your bread and butter, if your white tail hunting your background, is white tail still still your absolute favorite? Or are these bigger adventures and wilder places starting to pull at you? You know, they're so different. I think white tail always be my favorite. But the adventure hunts is what I've been I tell people, you know, like sheep hunts and mountain goats and all that. It's fun when you get home and you look back on it. You know what. The whole process of white tail hunting I love, you know, the scouting and out smart in them and growing them and running trail cameras and it's just a really enjoyable fun process. She hunting is not that, you know, she hunting is work and and just being mentally tough, and or any adventure hunt that matter, you know, putting on foot in front of the other and really a lot of miserable moment. But when you look back on it, you go, man, that was really cool experiencing that, and that I stuck it out and I got it done, you know. And so that's just the difference, I think, and in those two um and so I really I think it's made me appreciate and enjoyed white til hunting not much more. You know, when I come off these mountains and it's time to go white kil hunt, and I'm just so ready to go sitting a tree all day, which sounds crazy to some people, but I love it. So yeah, No, I can a percent relate to that. I was having those same feelings after my September Alaska hunt and then did the Montana hunt, and then all I can think about is, man, I can't wait to get back to the Midwest and just sit in the quiet tree and kind of get back to that normalcy a little bit. But it's all it's all incredible. Um And I like your point about how a lot of those adventure hunts, it's it's what I like to call her. I've heard people call it type to fun, you know, Type one fun is like the stuff that's really nice and fun of time, like maybe I don't know, playing a basketball game or whatever it is that you'd like to do. It's easy and fun. And type two is the stuff that in the moment it's kind of miserable, but like you said, looking back on it, those are sometimes the very best memories because you're able to push through that stuff. So yeah, I mean, I've I've been on a couple of sheep hunts for I'm no, I don't know if I'm ever going to come back on one. You know, I don't know if I can do it again. It's just rough. So and then you get home and you start looking at pictures a month later and you're like, oh man, you forget how how tough it really was, and did you keep book another one? And so I'll just keep going. Of those types of hunts, what's been the most fulfilling or your your favorite species outside of white tails them? Um, you know, probably probably either a mountain, the mountain goat I shot up in Northern BC, or my my stone sheep, just because of what we had to go through to get it and and just the story behind the whole thing. I guess that they're all so cool in their own way. But those were the two most physically demanding hunts. And the Mountain go my brother, who runs camera for us a lot, hell, broke his arm the first day and it was just, you know, it was just an experience and it's like, I don't know if we're going to get it done. So when we did get it done, it was just an overwhelming relief. And so that one's the one that stands out, you know, a lot in my head. So, yeah, can you tell us that story. I'm kind of curious to hear how that all. Ye, So I went hunting with actually a couple of buddies of mine and BC, who are outfitters for Bear and moves Um but loved the Mountain got hunts himself, and so I got a tag or a giffing outfitter and went with those guys Marty and Darren Um with BC and Beyond adventures up there. And so we went and found a bunch of big ghosts. But it was like the Northern BC, a little town called Chetwind, British Columbia where we were at. So we went and we were three hours from no two hours in the truck three hours on a four wheeler, and then we hiked for another three hours to even get into the goats to glass and it's like ten degrees a foot of snow on the ground, literally the most treacherous stuff like you could imagine. I had no idea, you know. And Marty's like a little mountain goat himself. He's all over these rocks. I'm six ft four pounds, and so it was. It was interesting, and so we hunted all day, actually got in on some really really big goats and didn't get it done and just couldn't get close enough. So we were coming out in the dark um that night, I mean, were just forever to get back, and uh, we all wished we would have took a tent and just camped up there on top because we found this big like plateau. It would have been the most perfect spot to just camp and we could have hunted out of camp every day, but we did it. So we were hiking out and my brother's head lamp died and so he was trying to walk between me and darren Um so he would have light, and we were just coming out of this big rock outcropping and his feet fluff monament. He's carrying like a sixty seventy pound pack with camera gear and he tried to catch himself and his arm went between two big rocks and his body kept going and it just snashed his arm and it was nasty. And so we were still two or two hours from the four wheelers, and you know, five hours from any hospital and and so at least, and it was like jeez, you know, so we just gave him some ivy profen and wrapped his arm up in a schiffling and carried his stuff out. I mean, he was dry heaving, and it was an interesting night. So we got him out of the hospital and you know, kind of in infituated, and we all just took off back up the mountain the next day, and I was trying to teach my guide how to run a camera and and on day four ended up filming me shoot a goat. So it was it was interesting. Wo, that's that's the story, like the short version. Yeah, I think that I think that definitely qualifies as the type two event, no doubt about that one. Yeah. Yeah. And then we went and shot at Black Bear, four hours south of there, and my brother filmed it with his broke arm and it ended up being the largest black bear killed in British Columbia that year. It was a bow and it was just a crazy week, you know, it was you know, it was insane. So that's pretty impressive that he got back out there on the camera. Oh yeah, he was trying to go back up after goats. But I was like, ah, after that, I kind of fired him from mountain hunts because he just always gets hurt, you know, off the cliff on. Yeah, he fell off a cliff on my mountain lion hunt, and just he's also since he was a little kid, he just gets hurt everywhere he goes. So he's more of a white tie. I like him white though hunts, but I can't. He's my brother, so I'm constantly worried when we're on the mountain and something it happened. So a little bit of a liability. Yeah, So back to white tails then, Um, you said you you hunted all over the place. It looked like I've been kind of following and seeing that you hunted. If I can remember, I saw Ohio, Arkansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Uh, Pennsylvania. Um, was there anything across all these hunts? That stood out to you this year as as like a major lesson learned or maybe just something that was pounded home again for you. Did you come away from this season having any big aha, Yeah, I did, you know, I um, I feel like I learned stuff all the time, but I had, you know, being a white til hunter growing up, just trained myself with archery tackle. If if the deer's over thirty, you got any real low, you know they're going to turn inside out, they duck, they you know, you're always gonna hit the deer hunher where you're aiming. So this year, I mean, we were just everywhere we went. You know, it was hitting deer right right in the heart, which is a great problem. But normally, you know, I'm aiming the bottom of the heart heart and hitting them in the lungs because they're dropping on us. And we just kept hitting them low in the heart and heart. And I'm like, man, I'm flirting with disaster down here. And I think we were coming home from Oklahoma, um, because we did Ohio, UM, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Arkansas. I think it's how that went. But we were coming home from Oklahoma and I said man, we I want to go back through this footage this year and find out what's going online. I feel like I'm hitting everything low, lower the normal and and we just figured out that deer we're not reacting. Um. I knew that the new tracks, you know, the first year was shot at and I went to a lower profile vein um and four fletched it, which is a real quiet arrow, like in flight down range. Um. And Randy Olmer used to do that. He would do like a he may still do that, like a real small six fledge um vain. And it's because it's quiet and the deer don't hear the arrow, you know, buzzing through the air. So I went to a four fledged, smaller profile. Plus the tracks is the quietest bow I've ever shot. And we just figured out these deer were not reacting to the arrow until it had already went past them. Um. And so I had to retrain myself while to not aim high, like up in the mid body, but aim a little higher, you know, because well, I mean I've trained literally had to aim at the bottom belly line of some deer you know in the South, growing up in North Carolina, those deer wild and if there are forty yards an alert and you shoot it along as you're gonna miss them by a mile. So um, yeah, just having to retrain myself a little bit with that tracks to aim a little higher than I was used to. So so for people that maybe aren't familiar with this concept we're talking about, you know, compensating for the deer they're jumping the string. So so buck, here's that bow go off and then he he kind of loads up to run away and in that kind of he almost drops. And lots of times when people shoot high. Um, so are you saying that you you do this on every in the past. You did this all the time to to make sure you weren't having deer duck there. You were always going to drop her aim low even if they weren't alert. Yeah, even if they weren't alert, I would do that, like unless they're close, you know, under thirty yards, really the blos was fast enough where they couldn't react a lot. But um, past thirty I would always aim hard, you know, like bottom third and that way, if he doesn't duck, I got him. If he ducks, you know, I still hit top of the lungs. And so it was just I was hitting everything like, you know, three inches up in the crease bottom of the heart and the heart and I mean one little bobble at fifty sixty yards, and you know, I was just flirting with disaster down there shooting low and because I'm so used to them dropping, loading up to run and hitting six inches higher than where I'm aiming, you know, at fifty yards. So it was a little bit of a learning curve for me with that new bow. Um, just in a testament to that thing of how quiet it is too. And I was I was pretty shocked because we were shooting deer for twenty five years and I've always had daim low. Yeah, now that's interesting to hear that I just got my tracks and haven't used in the field yet. But that's gonna be interesting and something I'm gonna have to keep in mind too for this coming season. Um. And I'm glad you brought up to for for people that are shooting something else that's probably you know, a little a little louder. It's always a good reminder to be careful and to be kind of preparing for that strange jump and aiming at the bottom third seems to be something that more and more people are realizing they've got to do for those longer shots. It is yeah percent, and I mean it's still a great idea. Even if you think you both so quiet that they're not going to hear, you still don't want to aim mid body? I mean, I would, you know, I think the perfect spot is top of the heart. You know, if you can break, if you can be perfect, that's the perfect spot. You know, because most deer can't react enough to duck the arrow that would be going to hit him in the heart, you know, in that way, if he doesn't move, he still got him. But it's just where I was aiming. I was flirting with shooting too low. So yeah, so so speaking of flirting with a disaster. Um, at least for me, every year, I make a handful of mistakes that I look back on and cringe a little bit. Did you make any mistakes this year that you that like stand out and you're saying that that was a doozy and you can learn from it. Oh gosh, I'm trying to think. I though I make a lot of mistakes, you know, maybe not shooting wise, but um, hunting wise, I did, for sure, But I do it all the time. I have a problem being way too aggressive white to hunt. And uh, you know, I think I get it, dear figured out I moved right in on him. And so the main reason is as I normally chow up at the least or something, I got seven days, you know, and so um, this year in Illinois kind of paid off. I didn't really, I didn't really I think learning my lesson. Maybe it's either in the aggressiveness, but I normally learned a lot of lessons by being too aggressive. This year it seemed like every time I did that, I killed a deer. So it's probably gonna hurt me next year. Um, but that's probably my biggest thing. I have to try to reel myself in when I'm deer hunting, to scout more than a hunt and you know, hang observation, stands and watch instead of going on I got these deer picked, I'm going to move right in on them, you know, because uh, that's bit me in the butt several times on real real big deer in the past, I get real anxious and get too aggressive on him. So so, so what is your typical process then for tackling one of these quick you know? Seven day huns on a property that you know, maybe out of state, that you're not able to be on a whole lot. Um, how do you go about doing that? How do you balance that scouting and hunting? When do you strike? I'm curious about that. Well, it's you know, most of these places we have hunted for years um and have history with and we run cameras on pretty much year round. So the first thing we do when we get there is is find out, you know what cameras we can get to with whatever the wind is, and let the least intrusive as possible and pull cards and kind of see what what's going on where. Um. That paired with you know past history of the place. Um. And you know we already we go hang sets in the summer and try to have all that done. You know, a major pinch points and a lot of times we're still running and gunning and hanging in the rut anyway if we see something two or three times um. But you know that's kind of the way it is. We we'd really try to, you know, let our cameras do most of the scouting force um and and just move in when the when the wind and the you know, the weather is right, um, or just when you got seven days you kind of got to go in anyway, And you know what we would do is is pool cards and if there's nothing really solids that we can lock in on, we'll go sit somewhere where we can see a long way to see a lot of you know, where the does are at, if it's the rud or you know, you know, it just depends. It's every situation seems to be so different early season, you know, it depends on it the acorns are falling and and and where, and if they're hitting beans or if they're dried up and they're already all in standing corn. And the white tail. I think that's why I've fell in love with them so much, is that it is never ending. What you know, battles and situations are faced with to try and find a big mature buck. You know, yeah, no, no doubt about that. I saw, um, that you had a situation. I think it was in Pennsylvania, Correct me if I'm wrong, But I saw that you had a target buck that you were hunting in Pennsylvania. I think you call him boswell and um, and then someone else ended up shooting that buck and it kinda I could relate to that because the last three years I've been hunting one buck here in Michigan and it looks like he probably got killed by another guy. So how did you How did that story with Boswell go for you? And how did you kind of process the fact that someone else got him that hunt was done for you? Well, it was um, you know t a. I hadn't really hunted a whole lot when we moved here. We bought you know, a house in twenty five acres and shot hunted one evening behind my house four years ago and shot a nice you know in nine point and I just really have a hunted Pennsylvania. Since I just kind of watched and didn't have it here, I wanted to go after and so I met a guy in this local area that owned a lot of ground, um and he didn't really hunt a lot, just a couple of days in riffle season, and super nice guy UM gave me permission to hunt one of his farms. And it was kind of the first time I had really fintured out since we moved here to try and find a bucks to hunt this year, the main reason being Samantha was pregnant and do in October. Urgency was do November eight. So I knew I was going to be home and prime Whitehill that time, and I wanted, yeah, it's perfect, right, So I wanted to be I wanted to be you know, kind of set up and have a deer to go after those last few weeks October leading into November where I knew I was going to have to be home and so um he had you know a little ninety acre track that was really good, and it was like ten minutes from my house. So I kind of went and keyed in on that and and literally the second year I got a picture of it was a deer we ended up naming Boswell and he was just an incredible deer, um twenty four inches inside hundred and sixty inch, you know, eight point clean eight, just a giant and had like ten inch brows. And I named him Boswell because with Steeler fans and his is um brow times looked like huge field goal posts and bosswels to field goal picker for the Steelers. That's how we got that name. But yeah, so I knew right then I was going I was going to spend my entire you know, late October November on that that buck, and we we passed a lot of good news there um and never laid eyes on him. Um. I saw. I had him on cameras so many times, you know, and I had him coming into this big greenfield every evening and like ten minutes till dark to ten minutes after dark. And it was really hard to get in there without boiling a bunch of deer out. And the main thing was after the hunt was over, if I didn't get him killed, I would have to blow the field out to get out. So I didn't even go in there. I was waiting on perfect weather, perfect conditions, and I was gonna go in and I would have one or two chances to kill him on that spot before I blew it. And I remember October, Um, me and Mike got up when we went to a stand probably two or three hundred yards office greenfield, just try to catch him going back into the bed area, um, because we had started getting some daylight, real random daylights of him. And didn't kill in that morning. But the temperature was dropping and it was the first cold front of the year, really, and it was gonna be like a high forty five that day. And I looked at Mike and I said, ever been to kill bos Well tonight? And I was just knew it. I was so confident he was going to be in that bringfield away before dark. And got out to the truck, my phone rings Samantha was going into labor, and so literally rushed home, went to the hospital. We had Jackson, uh like two weeks early, come home three days later, go pull cars and he was all over an hour before dark every morning, every evening, he was everywhere, and the daylight by this time it was hot again. He's back to his right at dark pattern and and so I hunted him hard until November six, and then we ended up leaving to go to Illinois. Hunted there for a few days, and when I came home, season was closed. I think it closed on the evn't here n p A this year, and so I knew. I was like, well, I'm gonna, you know, late season, when it gets cold. I'll try to key in and tell him. And so rifle season comes in like I don't know what's that right after Thanksgiving, and Boteo of course has been everywhere on the farm daylight. But the season closed for archery, and we couldn't hunt him, and it was kind of brutal. But so rifle season in and jason landowner um Is is hunting a little bit in riffle season, and so it kind of called me a little discouraged. Um about two days into rifle season said, man, I haven't seen a buck. I've not seen anything, you know. I just don't feel like there's any bucks on the farm. And so I was like, I'll go run, run a few cameras and see what's there. And and uh, we're out there. And man, I had him. He was coming every day, and I just wasn't gun hunting and so and I was because I was afraid if I went in there and tried to kill him. A gun season p A is like Michigan, there's so many hunters is that if you were to push him to a neighbor, he's dead that day, you know. So I was like, I'm not going in there and gun seas and I'm not doing it. So I just kind of slipped and pulled a couple of cards for Jason and he was all over it. In the daylight. I called him at probably twelve thirty one and said, hey, man, I said, there's a giant and he's you know, he's coming out and back into this greenfield every night, you know. And so he rushed home, jumped up in a box line and shot him right before dark and called me, you know, and and uh, I was so pumped for him. He's he's very unselfish guy to let me hunt his farm all year, and so I definitely wasn't gonna keep info from him, you know. And and uh so I was happy for him that he got him. And it was cool he called me and let me come out and we kind of helped in the recovery, and it was cool to hold him, you know, after hunting him all year long. So wow, that's the story of Boswell. Heck of a story. Gotta be a little bitter sweet, I know that feeling, But like you said, it was. I mean, obviously you put so much energy into it there, and I could have killed him several times, just didn't. You know. He's zigged and zag the right way and just was meant to be. That's what keeps us coming back for him, though, right The fact that's so darn frustrating and tricky sometimes and a few times it does come together makes it all worthwhile. So oh, I know it. And he was killable man. I mean he made mistakes. I just wasn't there when he did it. So, so you've hunted everywhere from Pennsylvania where there's tons and tons of hunting pressure, to places out in Kansas or Oklahoma where maybe there's not as much pressure. You've been north and south, all over the place in white tail country. Um. If there were any big picture, maybe one or two overarching like principles that you could take and show to a guy or girl who wants to take that step from becoming like an average deer hunter to becoming you know, consistent, you know killer, a mature bucks, someone who wants to take that next step. What would be the one or two big things you would say that you know, might Bill help him do that? Well? I think, um, pressure is the main thing, is um, because those big bucks will pattern You're just like your patterning them. And access is access and pressure It's what I've learned on big white tails is the only way to kill him. Um. You have to watch how you get in and out, um to your stands, and you have to really limit the pressure on his core area. UM. I mean, if he's living on your farm or if you think you know right where this fuck is bedding and feeding, you literally don't want to hunt him until it's perfect. And I like to hunt edges and real real I like to hunt edges when I have time, like and and not go straight and blow in there like I was talking about earlier. But when you have five or six seven as to hunt, you kind of have to get in there and hunt. And that's where I was saying, I've made a lot of mistakes and getting way too aggressive. So I think if you're hunting the phone that you was gonna hunt all year, you live and it's your home state, I think, like I did with Boso this year, I played it really perfect. I think as far as I didn't pressure him, I didn't go in there and blow him, I was bed arry. He was so comfortable even in the middle of rifle season because we had we had not pressured him at all. We didn't never jumped, and never went into his bedroom. So um, I think that's that was key. We just weren't there when he came out in the daylight, you know, and so almost probably wasn't aggressive enough with him. But I think, um, pressure and access you gotta have a way in and out without blowing the deer out. And and that's that's the same no matter where a hunt, everywhere we go, if we don't have good access, we can hunderstand one or two times and it's no good anymore, you know. And it takes two weeks for that stand to be back even close to normal again with deer activity. So yeah, yeah, So when it comes to choosing the right times to to go in there after him, choosing the right times to put that pressure on. I've talked to so many different people and everyone has different things that they key in on. Some guys are all about the temperature. Some guys are all about the moon. Some some people it's some combination of all the above and bear much of pressure and all sorts of other things. Um, what are the things that you key on the most? To tell you that now is the time strike, I think time of year and obviously, um, you know, weather is huge for me. At the moon. I've killed so many deer on a full moon, so many big deer that I just I love hunting a full moon. Um, I will literally you, I think you get real random hours of deer movement on a full moon. It could be daylight, it could be a tin, it could be at one. You just never know when he's gonna come out. But um, I think the time of year, um and weather and weather is going to pretty much trump everything else in my opinion. You know, I like high pressure, sunny days, and and you know, obviously November the eighth, you know, obviously, I mean that's an ideal, but I mean, yeah, I would say whether and the time of year would be the two most important factors of that for me determined and how aggressive I'm going to be. And and obviously you know, cameras. You know, if the deer has done the same thing every day for weeks, and I don't have a problem of going in there at all, you know, and being aggressive no matter what temperature, weather or anything. How do you how do you sometimes you just get deer that that I want to die I'd like to find Yeah, me too. How do you how do you go about using those cameras and checking those cameras without putting too much pressure on those deer? I feel like that's always really delicate balancing act. How do you how do you do that? Yeah? I will, you know, we will run cameras you know deep in some some bed areas, but we don't ever check them, you know. Um, we check them literally if we go in and hunt and have perfect conditions, we'll pull a card and get out of there, um and just see. But we run most of our cameras on food, um, just to kind of get an inventory where they're feeding. And uh, we try to run them on off like if we have a field or a you know, on a destination field, we'll run them on you know, fence where the fence is down or or um, you know, trails in and out of that field. Um, where we can get in there in the middle of the day and there's not deer feeding in the field normally and pull those cards and get out. And the best way to do that is on some kind of equipment, whether it be a you know, a Pilaris ranger or a tractor or a truck you know, because the deer don't really associate those with with danger for some reason. But if they see you on foot, oh that's a different story. UM. So we try to do everything far as pulling cards right out of the truck or a tractor or something if possible, and ride right up to the camera and the deer even if they're bed at forty yards in there, I don't seem to really pay it much attention, especially in the Midwest. So yeah, I've definitely definitely seen the same things, and I think that that applies to access as well. Um, would you agree, Like I know a lot of guys, and I've found success with this recently too. Sometimes in a situation like that greenfield example you shared earlier, where if you hunted right in the edge, you'd blow all the deer out. I've had some situations like that where I was on a field edge had to be there, so I'd have someone come pick me up in a four wheel or something and blow the door off the field rather than you on your feet doing that. Pent I've sat in a tree for an hour after dark, maybe longer, waiting on somebody to get there in a truck. If I had a big deer I was hunting to come in, you know. And so all right, that's you know, always better because those ye will be right back out there the next night. Where if they watch you climb down out of a tree, that's not to be the case. Yeah, you can't. You can't get away with that too many times. No, No, all right, Well, we are gonna switch gears here in a second, but before we do that, let's take a quick minute here to thank our partners at white Tail Properties. And here with our white Tail segment of the day from white Tail Properties is Spencer new Hearth. This week with white Tail Properties, we were joined by Andrew Schultz, a land specialist out of Illinois. And Andrew is going to be telling us about how shopping for land in the winter is different than other times of year. You know, there's lots of differences, but the main difference is the foliage that's um out on these properties. So with the lack of foliage, it's great for being able to walk around that property, um see deer sign from the past season, really get an idea for what trees are on the property, uh, what types of species of plant life and animals are using the property. And so that's gonna be the best reason for looking at ground in the wintertime versus the summer spring, when there's uh, leaves on all the trees, it's hard to see, it's hot, there's mosquitoes, there's ticks. Might not be quite as enjoyable of an experience Um, if it's me, I'm picking the cold weather and I'm learning everything I can about that property after most of the hunting seasons are over and you can see a lot of the property. Um, that's my favorite time to walk a farm, to really and truly learn a lot about it, and do so fairly easily. If you'd like to learn more and to see the properties that Andrew currently has listed for sale, visit white Tail properties dot com. Backslash Schultz. That's s h U L t Z. So what about this, LEVI Do you think that bow hunting makes you a better tournament archer or that tournament archery makes you more of a boat better bow hunter? So which of those is more true? Which is a better only a tournament archer? Tournament archer makes you a better bow hunter? For sure? Was that? Well? Because when we're out there shooting, we have to learn how to you know, we shoot under pressure all the time. Um, and so you learned what you do wrong under pressure, and you learn how to shoot through the pressure. You can't ever get rid of it, but you learn how to shoot through it. And so I think with bow hunting you don't feel that near as much. You know, you may hunt you know, a month a month and a half before you feel that buck fever kick in because that that target buck is coming in and so you that's the first time your heart's been pounding through your chest, you know, all seasons where in tournaments we feel that every week, and we feel that constantly, and we're shooting that constantly, and you just can't get away from it. So you learn how, you learn what you do wrong in those situations, and you learn how to shoot really well, um when your hearts beating out of your chest and your pin shaking a little bit, you know. So I think it has definitely helped me um bow hunting percent you know, in those high pressure moments where you know it's you know, this is it, this is maybe the last day, and this is the biggest buck you've ever seen, and to you get one shot, you know, and that's a lot of pressure. And for people that don't ever feel they don't know, you know, how they're going to react in that situation, they don't know how they shoot in that situation, and and so you know, it could end up being a really really big deal. You know, where a tournament archer feels that all the time, you know, so definitely helped me be a better bow hunter. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Can you can you talk about what that process has been like for you, you know, as you've gone through your tournament archery career as far as the mental side of handling that pressure. Mean, were you always just ice cold and it never bothered you? Or did you have some challenges with this and you've had to work through it And if so, how how have you been able to handle them mental pressure of of these moments? Right? Yeah? No, I think in the beginning, you know, um, I didn't have too much expectation, so my nerves never really got to me. Um. I was just trying to hang, you know, and so, um I want a few tournaments literally, kind of like the saying ignorance is bliss. I didn't even know how important they were, you know, in the beginning, because I was just having fun and uh, I really had no expectations. But then when you start winning a couple of tournaments, the most pressure I I experienced, really and it was kind of in the middle of my career up to this point. Um I started winning, and then people started expecting me to win, and then I started expecting to win, and expectation creates so much pressure. Um, when you go to a tournament and you know everybody's watching every air you shoot and you start thinking about it. Um, that was tough for me to deal with. You know, I did it, and I fought through it. Man had some challenges mentally, UM, just holding it together a few times because of that, you know cloud that kind of follows you around when you win. UM. And so I think now you get to a point where you feel like you don't have anything to prove really, and so I kind of broke through that, and I feel like I've won enough that I don't you know, I can have a bad day and and nobody thinks my career is over, you know. And so for a while it was like you hadn't one enough to really prove yourself. So don't let people think. It's a flute kind of mentality, you know. And so now I feel like I don't have that. But you know, there's always a cloud of expectation, and I make myself way more nervous now than anybody else could, just because I demand perfection out of myself at tournaments and you just can't be perfect when it comes to shooting a bow, and so I'm constantly pressure myself to be better and better. But I think that's what drives all of us, you know, and tournament archery or in any competition. If you get satisfied, you start going backwards real quick, because there's some nineteen year old kid that wants it as bad as I did when I was when I was at age right now. So yeah, so is there anything that you that you figured out during that time period that you learned or someone told you, hey, think about this, or was there a a practice or anything that helped you develop that mental toughness or the ability to handle those moments. I mean, for for people listening, I'm curious, you know, how can we become better from this mental aspect? Right? Yeah, The main thing that I had to learn was, you know, and it goes for bow hunting or tournaments. As you focus on the process, don't focus on the end result, don't focus on what it means. You know to this erro means don't focus on you know how big this buck is and and don't choke and and you know how important to terminate you just focus on the process. So you need a system, um and so what I always said was, no matter what's your goal is, you know, you can't just keep looking at that goal and that, you know, putting your pressure on yourself to to reach that goal. You have to look at all the steps it's going to take to get there, and then break that down into little baby steps and you accomplish one small goal and then move on to the next step, okay, and the next step and the next step. And if you focus on the process, it takes so much pressure off of you. Um in the longer run, and when the smoke settles, you'll wake up and and you've reached your goal, you know. And so a lot of times and sometimes not, but that's just the nature of competition, and that's going to be the nature of bow hunting. It doesn't always work perfectly, but if you focus on the process, it takes a ton of pressure off of you to perform. And and so you're more focused on doing that one little task right then how important this overall picture is. And so when that big bucks coming in, if all you're thinking about is don't screw this up, and you're naturally going to screw it up. So you have to take a system of steps you know whether that's all right. Let's okay, get my grip right, you know I was pulled back, and make sure my bubble's level and put the pen here and be aggressive and pull you know, fluent. Just have a system of steps in your head um that takes your mind away from those negative thoughts. And that's kind of been the big thing for me mentally, its is to focus on the process instead of you know how important that's WoT is? Yeah, well and maybe maybe you just told us this, but could you walk us through your exact shot process when it comes to in the field there's a deer coming in, what exactly are you is going through your mind and what exactly are you doing all the way from that beginning to the end. Right, So you know my mind is when a deer is coming in, it's you know, it's kind of situational. But like I'll just take this last you know, deer I shot down in akin soft for example. Okay, so it's late and we got one night left in the season and literally five minutes a light leve. So when I see a deer coming and literally the first thing in my hand is my range finders, and so to keep my mind hand off of anything. I'm constantly clicking stuff in front of this deer and and keeping my mind on how far he is, how far he is, how far he is, and literally that. But you can do that. That takes your mind off of everything else if you're focused on how far that deer is. And that's been a big thing for me, is just keeping my mind focused on every step he takes, trying to click him again and click him again, and so or and if he's walking down a trail, I'll go in front of him. When it's almost time for the shot, I'll follow that down, click something close to where he's gonna be, and then I'm constantly focused on how far he is. So if he's a yard on the other side, two yards on the other side of that tree, that's all I'm thinking about. And then when I come to full draw. This goes for tournament or hunting, all I focus on is aiming, and I tell myself that I just aim, just aim, just aiming, And so in practice you have to really do some drills to focus on just aiming and the release. Honestly, you'll just are if you shoot enough, you should never be thinking about firing that release or firing the boat, you should literally focus on aiming. And that's just a subconscious movement because you know, coaches and Olympic coaches and all these smart people will tell you that you can only consciously think about one thing at a time. You can't consciously think about more than one thing, but you're subconscious. Is pretty amazing how many things you can do subconsciously. So when I'm shooting the boat, all I am thinking about is aiming, and everything else just kind of happens. And that's what you've got to get to UM to be, you know, kind of reach your full potential as an archer or anything for that matter. When you come to full draw, you should never think about anything except keeping that pin on on target m I UM. I recently this past year kind of came to terms of the fact that I have had some tendencies and I never used to label it this way, but I've kind of came to the realization that it probably is some form of target panic UM. So this summer I started trying to change the way I shot my boat so that I was using more of a back tension type pull through UM process versus just you know, punching with an index finger. Um, so that's something I'm kind of still learning and trying to figure out and get better at. Can you walk us through how someone can deal with that issue, deal with that target panic or that trigger punching, and and what the proper way is to to really do what you just said there, you know, focus on just aiming and having the boat go off almost without even thinking about it. How do you actually go from Okay, yeah, yeah, this is what I should be doing. How does someone actually go through the process of developing that habit and system? Right, So, there's really mainly two drills and I was actually doing one of them here that before you called. But um, the two main drills that would focus on, no matter if you have target panic or not, is blank biling and then just an aiming drill. So but I feel like the best drill anybody's ever could do has target panic because, um, what I was doing earlier and I don't have target panic, but I literally it helps you no matter where you're at an archery, you know, bow hunting. So what I do is I was at twenty yards and I pulled back and I would literally just I'd put my thumb on the trigger because I shoot a thumb button and I'll blame my thumb on is bigger, and just aim and try to hold that pen so still in the middle until my shot started to break down and shake, and then I would let up and so I would take a breath, take a few minutes, pull back to do it again, and just doing that over and over without firing the arrow. So what you're doing is telling yourself, hey, I'm in complete control here. I don't have to fire this shot as soon as my pen gets to the middle. UM. So you're easing that your mind and that anxiety of firing that shot as soon as the pin touches what you wanted to hit um, which is target panic, you know. So it just it really does is relax you. And why you're doing that. You're building your stamina and how long you can name in the middle. And so the longer the more you do that, you start being able to aim there longer before your shot breaks down. And so that is probably the best drill in archery is to never fire an arrow and just do that over and over. And if you have target panels, I would say to anybody that has started paining, do that in the off season for two or three weeks and never fire shot, lay your finger on the trigger and aim where you want to hit, and lay down when your stote starts to break down, and just keep doing it over and over every day however long you would practice. And then you're gonna be pretty amazed when you go back out there to shoot, how relaxed you are you pull back and aim and you're gonna be able to lay your thing on the trigger to make a good clean shot. UM. And so the other drill I would pair with that is called blank belling, and most people probably heard of that, but it's where you walk up to a target, you know, two or three yards, pull back, put the pin on it where you can't miss, close your eyes, and then just picture your dot being or your pen being in the middle, and slowly apply pressure to your release t fire. It's just good fluent pressure, not super super slow, but just steady pressure each shot over and over to so you feel with that perfect release, that surprise release feels like UM. And then if you pair those two drills together, UM, when you combine them and go out to shoot, you're going to be amazed at how much more comfortable and how much more fluent, and your timing and everything is gonna be so much better with your shot. So those are two of the best drills that you can do as an archer. Yeah, it's funny mentioned those. I think the guys that have been helping me deal with my issues must be listening to a lot of what you say, because those are exactly the things that I've been I've been working on myself. Um, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Your message is getting out there and it's it makes a lot of sense. Um, is there any are there any other things when it comes to how we practice? Are there any other things you would recommend or other drills or other um things that you think about or do while practicing. You know a lot of guys I think you know, go out late summer start flinging a few arrows at twenty yards and they kind of call it good And obviously that's not ideal. Um. Can you can you walk us through some better practice habits? Yeah? I think you need to set goals in practice, just like anything else. I mean, I think if you go out and shoot at the same four or five inches circle every day or dot every day, then you're never gonna get any better, you know. I mean you can say, yeah, I'm both sided in time to go hunting, you know, and and that may be true, but if you really want to be the best you can be, you need to set goals and practice as well. And one thing that you know you can do is either move back. Is what you know? I think is the is the best way is to practice shooting at distances way further than you're going to be shooting hunting, because that shows all your mistakes, everything is magnified. You know, we practiced a ton and a hundred yards because if you make the tiniest mistake at a hundred, you missed by a foot. And so whenever I shoot a lot of a hundred yards um and get where I'm shooting really good at a hundred and I move back up to forty, it's like you feel like you can't miss, you know, you feel like this is the easiest shot of all time. And so what I like to tell people that, okay, what's your max distance hunting? Like, well, I won't shoot a deer over thirty yards and I want shoot a deer over forty yards um. I said, Okay, Well, then why don't you practice at sixty or seventy yards. There's nothing unethical about shooting in a bag target at sixty yards, you know, So just keep shooting and shooting until you you're starting to get some decent groups of sixty yards and so then you move back to forty and and that used to be your max distance. And so most people will only practice up to where their max distances. They're going to shoot an animal. But if you do that, it's always gonna be a hard scot. It's always gonna seem hard because it's your max distance. So if you practice, will you know, double your max distance and get pretty good. Then you go in the woods and the buck walks out at forty You're gonna be like, I can't screw this up. You know, this is this is a piece of cake, you know. So it really changes your mental game as well as makes you fine tune your mistakes and tighten your groups up. So i'd say, practice um further than what you're comfortable, make yourself a little uncomfortable in practice, and and it'll help you in the long run. Yeah, yeah, good, definitely good ideas. Now what about the actual shot um or sorry, actual form? This is another thing. A lot of people maybe develop bad habits as far as how they hold their bow or how they anchor different things on those lines. And I've seen a number of videos you've done and some different things you've put out there about you know, specifically how you're approaching some of these different things. Can you walk us through a little bit about proper archery form, what we need to be thinking about all the different pieces of that. Yeah, Honestly, form is it's pretty tough because there's really no right or wrong forms in archery. Um, there's there's ways to shoot a bow easier. But what I have experienced and learned over the years is that if you can do the same thing over and over and over again, then it's right and is when it comes to form, if you can repeat it over and over and over, then it's right. You know, I get beat by guys that have horrible form. If you were to say, draw up the most perfect archery form and you draw that out, they don't look anything like that, And then they, you know, are some of the best archers in the world. So they are the best because they can repeat that form over and over and over. So I would tell you to find what's comfortable and if you're just starting, yeah, let's get somebody that it knows what proper form is and that and if I had to say what is perfect form, it's it's straight line. If you drew, you want to work with straight lines, So shoulder with apart, your feet, shoulder with apart, draw a straight line up. Your body should run straight through your head. No leaning, no you know, tilting or anything like that. And then your bow arms shouldn't be bent at all. It shouldn't be um or shouldn't be bent, and it shouldn't be hyper extent, extended some some kind of middle ground there um um, and just a real relaxed straight arm, that's what we'd like to call it. But then your release hand, you want to draw a line down the air shaft at full draw hits your release through your hand and out your elbow and be on the black same plane. Looks like one line from the side. Um, not your elbow down, not your elbow up in the air. You know all that um, and that would be considered perfect form. Relaxed grip. There's so many things that kind of go into form. But if you can find a system, form, anchor any of that, that you can do the same every single shot from one shot to the next and the next, then it's right. And I don't tell anybody your form drawn. If they're struggling with their shot, maybe try to find something that's easier for them to repeat. But um, yeah, that's the main thing. Archie is all about. Repetition's being able to repeat the little things over and over. So I feel like there's really no no answer, no right or wrong answer to that. That said, though, are there any any form mistakes of any sort that that do consistently pop up that like mess up shots? I mean one thing, like an obvious thing that people talk about a lot, is you know, uh over gripping your bow and talking shots a lot? Is there anything else like that? Any other little things that stand out? Yea, I just don't want to Yeah, if you grip your Yeah, my buddy dropped his bow on the floor anyway, that suck you don't You don't want to drop your bow? That can cause inconsistencies. No, Yeah, grip is obviously, um you know, if you do it the same every time, great, But you want to hute relaxed grip. And so what I like to do is tell people with the grip is you know, fellm up in the air like you're giving a thumbs up, turn your thumb to two o'clock straight back, and you put it right on the grip of the bow. And that's kind of the most repeatable grip that I've found, UM. But the biggest thing I see it with form flaws is draw links. People have too long a draws and it creates bad habits. And I see that more than anything trying to get speed out of a bow, UM and their drawings is way too long, and so that creates target then because you're uncomfortable, tons of tons of issues. So if I was to say one thing that's the most important is having somebody fit you with the perfect drawings. And to be honest, that's gonna fix almost all your form flaws if you're both fits you perfect because you have to be in a straight line if you anchor the right way, and your drawings fits you. So that's the most important thing I can think of, UM when it comes to form, is having a bow that fits you absolutely perfect. Yeah. I went through that this year as well, trying to refigure out if my draw length was if I was having the exact same problem. I did some works trying to adjust the draw length to try to get that better fit, and I think that definitely does help. So speaking of draw length and things on those lines, let's talk about gear a little bit. Um, how about let's just start with the biggest piece of the picture here, which is your bow. What are some things that people should be looking at or paying attention to when it comes to buying a new bow, because I think a lot of stuff sometimes and in the marketing we see maybe pushes us in one direction or another, and we just hop on that because of the hype. Um, I don't know what you know, the different specificities that might be. But what are the real things that matter when a guy or girl is going to pick a new bow? What should they be looking at? That is most important? You know, most of the bows anymore are so good that you know, the top end bows are. But I think, you know, I don't know that people are going to look at the same things I would a cat, because I work on them every day. But I'm looking at lamp pockets, UM and axles and cams, and because that's that's where you get movement out of both um, you know, and how those lamp pockets are built, and how those cams are based and build, and so I'll look in to design on a limp pocket. And and because I've struggled in the past years with with you know, that being where the movement was and you know, but honestly, I haven't had a bow that I have looked at in the last couple of years that I see there's issues with with any of that stuff. People are figuring that out, manufacturers are figuring that out. So I think the most important thing for anybody going to buy a bow is feel. I think you need to shoot them and you need to feel what it's like and feel. Um, but the draw cycles like you know, how it anchors, how it hits into the back wall, because everybody likes a distance feel. You know, some people like high let off with a hard back wall. Some people like spiral cams and you know, low let off in a spongey wall. Um, it helps them aim better. So I think you've got to figure out, you know, shoot all the bows that that pro shop will let you shoot, and and pick one that feels the best to you. And and because honest to God, nowadays all the top end bow manufacturers are making really really solid products and and so, um, you gotta you gotta figure out what what you like the best and what feel you're looking for. How about actual accuracy with a bow or forgiveness, which some people will say is something that will allow you to be more accurate? Um, there's a number of different factors related to bow as that people typically say, if you get this is going to make this bow more forgiving. But if other people argue some of these, can you talk us through what a forgiving bow actually means? And if that's you know, what are the things we should be looking for, if that's the kind of thing we're looking to achieve with our bow? Right? Yeah? I mean if you shoot, if you've got a thirty one inch draw and your shoot, you know, a thirty inch bow with the five inch brace hide that eighty pounds and three feet a second is probably not a real forgiving bow, you know, but you know you want, you know it, And brace heights is all relative, you know, brace sites is always the number. You know, that's what you know. You can decide an axle back. So that's how forgiving the bow is. But to be honest, actual the axl has really nothing to do with forgiveness anymore. I think um brace heights is is still pretty relevant, but it's all do or, It's all based on your drawing. So forgiveness of a bow to me is being you know, you're take into consideration you have a perfectly tuned bow, and which is everything, and forgiveness is having a perfectly tuned boat. But then you start looking at the actual design of the bow. What makes it forgiving? Well, for me, I have a thirty and a half inch draw, so the brace height is how long that's that arrows on that stream from the time I release it to the time it leaves the string. So there's a gap there where that stream is driving that arrow after you've released the shot, before it actually leaves the string. So braceyde the longer your braceype is, the shorter that span is that the arrows are on the string after you releases. So you're this the less movement, the last time you have to move off target, the less time anything you know has to go wrong. So that's kind of in the idea behind That's why I brace the bigger brace sythe is more forgiving. But if you have a bow or inch draw in a five inch brace hyde. That's still way more forgiven than having a thirty one inch drawing an eight inch bray s type, you know. So it's um, that's all braceype means is and that's why people say a longer brace hyde is more forgiven. But you you know, it's all relative to drawing. So I shoot a six inch braceyde and and love it, you know, with a thirty and a half inch draw It's just it's speed. There's so many things in archery that's that's a hard question to answer because speed also gets plays into that because that's how long and how fast that you know, releases to how big of a span you have before that arrow leaves a string. So if you're shooting a real slow bow with a real short brace hide, it's going to be less forgiving than a fast bow with a long brace hide. So yeah, there's a whole lot of different things that you can give or take and pick your poison. Um. Now, what about this that if you had to choose which one of these um qualities of a bow would you view as the very most important from a bow hunting aspect, Would you rather have a fast bow, a forgiving bow, or quiet bow? Which of those would be the absolute most important. I realized you'd like them all. But if you had to pick just one forgiving, because we're not perfect and uh, you know speed, I mean dependent on household. But if it was just an average bow speed speed wise, it would be either speed or or forgiveness because, um, you don't need quietness if your bow is fast enough. Yeah, fair enough, UF, you know, and so um, but forgive forgiveness is the most important to those three I think are accuracy. It is the most important of those three. Yeah, so you mentioned a few minutes ago that the most important thing for forgiveness is a well tuned bow. Can you walk us through, Um, maybe a couple of things people can do to better tune their bows, or if there's a few tuning mistakes you see a lot? Um, can you give us a few thoughts on tuning? Yeah, I think there's I think you know, most people don't know how to tune their bows properly, and most people on TV don't know how to tune their bow properly. And they shouldn't shoot lighted knocks because I get so frustrated watching hunting shows in their arrows. You see this lighted knock. It looks like somebody's using a sparkler down through the woods that is going in circles. Because and that is how you create a very unforgiving set up, make it really hard on yourself, you know. I think you know, proper tune bow, you start literally from the ground up, and I mean it would take hours to go through it, but just real quick, you know, like paper tuning would be a basic thing somebody should learn how to do. Um. You know YouTube video I've done on how to paper tune UM which gets your arrow coming out of that bow perfect, your arrow flight's perfect. You're shooting an arrow through a piece of paper and seeing if it's kicking at all coming out of that bow. And so we'd go to the extent of doing that with no veins on the arrow. So we're getting the actual reaction of that arrow with no guidance and getting one tiny arrow hole through paper. Then we put veins on it stabilize it down range, you know. And so we're creating a set up that through a machine would never miss. And so then all you have to worry about yourself. Um. So I think if you add into play human error and your bow shooting groups the size of a pipe play. You're pretty much doomed at that point. So but there is you could take any I could take any bow you know that's been built in the last five years and make it a really forgiving setup. Um, just by how you tune it, how you balance it. Um. So many things go into it, but you can literally build a very forgiving set up out of almost anything. So a big part of of achieving a lot of this, I think is that arrow set up too. I imagine, um, and this is this is something that I again, I think I need to do a better job of myself. I I fell into the trap early on in getting an arrow, and it worked for me, and I just never messed with I was like, well that works or seemed to work fine, and so I never really questioned or thought through, you know, why am I shooting this spine or this length or this or that. Can you walk us through what we need to be thinking about to properly match up our arrow with our bow set up in our goals? Yeah? I mean, like I mean, the spines, you know, the most important, and a shoot gold tip and I shoot either a two fifty or three hundred spine for everything. I'm thirty one inches seventy pounds almost all the time. So, um, what that is is you know how weak or stiff that arrow is. So and like Samantha is draw sixty pounds, she shoots a five hundred spine arrow, so you know, and I mean you can look on the spine charts of all the arrows that find out kind of where you need to be. But you know, the more I kind of give you an idea what effects that. So like you can take a four I can take a three hundred spinario and make it shoot like a four hundred spine arrow if I put you know, three grain point in front of it, because it weakens that that spine up. You know. So the heavier and arrow is on the heavier point you put in it, the weaker the spine gets um. And the longer you cut it or the longer you leave it, the weaker it is. So if you want to stiffen an arrow up and so through paper, a week tear is a high hair. So if you're get in a high tear and you can't get it out, you probably have a weak arrow. So what you can need to do is cut some off of the arrow or put a lighter point in it, or last case or worst case scenario, get a stiffer spine um and vice versa. If you shoot through and your knock low a lot of times, that's a stiff arrow and you're gonna want to, you know, put more weight in front of it, you know, cut it longer, or get a weaker spine arrow, you know. And that was definitely affect tune. UM. If if I had to say, we've wanted with more forgiving, if you couldn't get it perfect, I would want a little bit of a weaker arrow than as too stiff um for your spine. Like if you're a little too weak, it's better than being having an arrow that's too stiff. But obviously you want to get it perfect. Now, what about diameter arrows. There's been a recent movement a lot of people are shooting those much smaller diameter um. Now, what are your thoughts on that? Wise that maybe a good thing to look cat or not. Yeah, it is. I like small diameter its like the you know pierce platinums and and just the tiny hunt arrows for penetration and they're tough and and all that. I went back to shooting um kind of a velocity which is a standard diameter. This past season, I just have a lot of confidence in that arrow. It's just a solid all around arrow. And I'm not a huge fan of outsuits. Um. You know, which is the sleeve that goes on the outside of the arrow, and then you gotta screw your arrow or your broad head into that, and just a lot of things, a lot of components that have to go to together, um, and it's hard to get them perfect. All the arrows the same. So I went back to shooting like a two four six point two four six diameter, which is like the pro hunter velocity, just kind of your standard hunting arrow and running inserts because I like the less things that can go wrong the better. But I killed you know, several animals with those pierce platinums last year, and they're a great arrow. I just, you know, figured less is more when it comes to that stuff. So I went to back to shooting the velocity year this year. Um. The Valkyrie is actually the one I hunted with and it was It's probably my favorite hunter I've ever heard with. It comes pre fledged four flashed with the low profiles like I was talking about before, So gotch alright. Before we move on to the next question, I want to take our final break of the day and think our partners at Maven Optics, and you may have seen this across Facebook or social media, but Maybe has just announced that they're launching a new category of products for the brand this year, and that is rifle scopes. And Maybe has been making binoculars and spotting scopes now for a while, but now with rifle scopes, they've got a really appealing new option. This scope has two point five to fifteen next zoom has two different radical options and has super high end e D glass, which is extra low dispersion glass. And what this means is that it prevents or minimizes chromatic aberration, and in layman's terms, that just simply means that you get a cleaner and brighter image and of course terrific performance in low light conditions, the kind of stuff that you want when you're hunting with a high end rifle scope. So if you'd like to learn more about the new Maven r S one scope, you can visit Maven built dot com and the scope is available now for pre order. The products won't begin shipping until May and f y I. If you order during this pre order time period, they're currently offering a two d dollar off promo, so check it out at maven built dot com. Speaking of speaking of less is more than um, how about broadheads? Are you h a simple keep it simple with a fixed blade type broadhead or do you like mechanicals or what are your thoughts on the right broadhead? Now, I'm a huge mechanical fan, and I wasn't for years. I grew up shooting, you know, the Muzzy's, and probably because they were the cheapest second finder the wasps at Walmart, you know, because me Dad going there and by a pack of six and replacement blades, and we were good to go, you know. But through the years of pulling our hair out trying to get those tune and shoot the same, you know, I would literally have to write on my veins. I remember being a little and right on my veins, you know, six inches left or you know, three inches low, and I would literally right where they hid at a certain distance so I would look at better. And so oh, I got to aim at the right because those broadheads are playing so bad. So when I was introduced to Swacker, probably about nine years ago. I literally fell in love with those mechanicals UM, And the main thing is they're the only ones that when they go into the cavity of a deer, they open up after they go through the first rib cage, so you're cutting vitals with brand new blades. And that was the biggest selling point for me, because I would literally shoot deer with a fixed blade or an open on contact UM mechanical, and I hit it in the lungs or hit it perfect, and one time it would bleed really good and run fifty yards and the next time it would run three with jars and I find mary and there was broke blades or you know whatever. So with most broadheads, you gotta cut through that first layer of fur and fat and then bone before you ever get to the vitals, and you're dulling your blades and you're breaking your blades off before you ever get to the good stuff. So when I started shooting Swacker, that's what I loved so much about the design was that it went in and opened up right as it went through that first ribcage, So the first thing it cut was vitals with brand new razor sharp blades, And man, I've just been in love with him for nine years and so I have not shot another another thing since. So, Um, I'm total, total mechanical or really just a total swacker fanatic to be honest, because I love the design and you don't have any issues with family to open or anything like that that you here with a lot of mechanicals. That hasn't been an issue for HU. No, I've never had an issue. And I mean I've shot everything for muscos to Buffalo moves elks, I mean everything with them and no issues at all. Just kill stuff super quick. That's what you want, That's right, Yeah, I mean that's the goal. So moving moving down the line of gear. Then, Um, you talked to a few minutes a while ago actually about the fact that you use a thumb button release. Um, can you talk a little bit about different releases and what styles can help with different issues or different things. Are goals that we're trying to achieve? Yeah, for sure, I mean I I UM, I think we all probably grew up shooting you know, the risk trap release or the you know, the trigger releases we call it with the index finger. Um. And so then you've got your thumb button release, and then you've got what we call a back tension or a hinge, which requires you to rotate or pull through with pressure to fire it. And so the goal with release execution is always to have of um, that surprise release. You don't anticipating when it's going off. You're not timing it, you're not forcing it to go off. You're aiming and just applying a steady pressure to fire it. But sometimes with with like a thumb trigger or something with that hard wall, that's either it's cocked or it's fired and there's nothing in between. That's why hinge has been so good for people because it has that little bit of movement which is kind of a comfort thing. They can aim and just keep pulling until it fires. Um. We kind of look at it like, okay, if you're standing, you know, on top of a you know, a shed or a building, and you know twelve foot to the ground, you either got to jump or you stay. There's no in between. There's no easy way to get down there. You've got to jump off the leg, you know. So with a hinge, it's kind of like putting a slide there from the top to the bottom. It's easy. You just get on and you just slide down in the gradual motion and you know you're there. And so that's kind of why a lot of people will train with a hand And I do the same thing. When I start feeling like I'm timing that thumb button, I'll go back to my hand and I'll just start pulling and concentrating on aim and then I can go back to my button and shoot it really well. But I think you need some kind of training device that's constantly, you know, reminding you what that's supposed to feel like that surprise release of just steady pressure until it fires. So, do you have a specific model that you would recommend as far as a hinge and then an actual in the field release, especially for someone like you know, selfishly, someone like me who's trying to build this better habit of achieving that surprise release. Um, is there a specific one or two you'd recommend. Yeah, honestly, the the new True fire Seer that just came out last year, it's s e A. The True fire Seer is a hand release and it allows you to to set it's the most customizable hand release in the world, and so you can set different link clicks. You can really customize it to what you like, and or you can say no click at all and a click and a hinge is so you don't pre fire it, so you pull and then when you hear that click, you know, okay, let's he's up. It's getting ready to fire, you know, if you're drawing back or something. So I think the truth our seer is the best one if I shooting tournaments and I hunt with the seers um. And then the new one that I helped design. The thumb button I'm shooting is actually a prototype. It will be out. The spring is called the snaps um and it is an unbelievable thumb button. And thumb buttons are really sketchy anymore like you get And it's all to do with the inside of them and how they're built as far as pre firing on you, um and um. After you know, a hundred shots, he'll start every once in a while, you just be pulling back and they'll fire one down range. And that's why I quit shooting them in tournaments, you know, several years ago. So we really went through a lot of testing on you know, strength of steel and different parts and why that was half in and built this new synapse trooth. I hasn't. Man, I've shot thousands of shots through it and it's just incredible. So I think it's gonna be something that's going to hit the market and be pretty hot here in the next couple of months. Awesome. So we would you say then that for someone that's that's getting pretty serious about archery and or bow hunting, that it really is worth upgrading to some kind of either thumb button or hinge or something on those lines and getting away from the wrist strap, you know, not necessarily, I think, you know, again, a lot of the top guys are still shooting wrist chafts. But I think you need to have a release that you go to that's different. And I think it's either a different uh you know setting where it's harder or lighter than the morning you shoot most of the time, so you get a different field because what you do is you start timing that release, if you start getting a little sloppy with that release and anticipating when it's gonna fire, and that causes target hanging. So you want to have another release that you can pull out and literally shoot for a week or two and then go back to your you know, your trusty release. You know, because then you kind of forgot the timing and you can just focus on aiming and all that. So it really doesn't matter, you know, if you're shooting a wrist trap with um button a hinge, whatever. But I think you need to have a couple of different releases that you can go back and forth with and uh, it kind of keeps you on and so to speak, keeps you focused on what you're supposed to be focusing on, and that's aiming. Yeah, that's that's good advice and a good idea to switch those things up. Keeps you from getting too used to it. Um. I like that. So is there anything that we have not touched on when it comes to archery? Is there do you have like a pet peeve or like a thing that you just want everyone in the world to to know that you gotta work on this or don't make this mistake or learn this one lesson. Is there anything that is just so important that we haven't touched on yet that you want to make sure we we Uh, you know, I think the most important thing is that we've talked about is making yourself uncomfortable you know, in practice and and pushing the limits in practice. UM, and it makes those tough shots in the fields seem easy. And that's the most important thing I think I've learned in archery is is practicing making it really tough on myself and not practicing to to stroke my ego, you know, and to tell myself how good I am. Really practiced to push push the limits, and I think that's the biggest thing anybody can do, and it makes you better in the process. So I think that's the biggest key really probably in life, you know, and not just archery, is to push yourself and and make yourself uncomfortable and and uh and it makes you better, um, whenever you're faced with a tough situation and or you know what you've worked for all year. Yeah, that's very very wise words there, and I think that's probably a good way to end this one out. So for people that want to see what you're doing, whether it be online or on TV, can you can you point us in the right direction to see everything that's going on with you and bowlife. Yeah. On on Instagram it's um Bowlife Levi. UM on the web side is um bowlife dot com and you can pretty much see everything there and then on as far as a show we are on the Sportsmens channel. UM Wednesday nights at seven thirty is our best slot UM or the best time there. We are three or four times a week, depending on the week. And so that's a Bowlfe TV on the Sportsmen's Channel, And that's pretty much you know. On Facebook, it's just Bowlife TV. So that's pretty much everything that we've gotten you on YouTube, same things that we're kind of all over the place, and you search Bowlife you'll find us awesome. Well, I'll make sure to include some links to those things. And I'd like those, uh those YouTube videos you've been putting up this year covering the different both set up tips and things like that. You did a nice job with that. So if if anyone listening wants to learn more about a few of these things we've talked about, definitely check out those YouTube videos. Leave I does a nice job of going into more detail and demonstrating a few of these ideas. So, man, I can't I can't tell you how much I appreciate your your time today. Thank you, Yeah, no, thank you, Mark. I appreciate being on here and I look forward to doing it again. Absolutely, good luck this season. Thank you and that's wrap, folks. But I want to take a quick second here to just reiterate something that I say on every episode at this point in the show. But UM, I say it kind of quickly and I say at the very end, and I don't know how many people actually hear it and and really process it. And it's the fact that I appreciate you, UM, I really sincerely, uh from the from the bottom of my heart, as cheesy as that sounds, I appreciate you, every one of you who takes the time who gives me, uh the privilege of your attention and time to listen to what I have to say, to listen what I guests have to say. Uh. It means the world. Means the world to me. Uh, And I just I couldn't do what I'm doing now without you. It means a lot. And I just want you to know that, UM, that I'm mindful of that, and I want to continue to do the very best job possible to serve you all, to give you the information you need to entertain at times to maybe help you, um, maybe live vicariously. There's some things that I might be doing or to to laugh at the stupid things I'm doing UM, I want to be able to make sure at the Wired Hunt podcast and everything I'm doing here's something that really brings value and uh an entertainment and information your way. Hopefully that's what we've been doing. I get some exciting things coming down the road here that hopefully are going to allow us to do that to an even better and uh and higher degree. I'm excited for all that. I'm excited to share all sorts of new exciting things for two thousand eighteen with you. And UM, I'm rambling as I often do, but the point being is that you guys the best, So thank you for all that. Speaking of the best, I do of course want to thank our partners who also are a big part of the reason why I'm able to do this. So I want to thank those people, those companies. So thanks to sit to Gear, Yetie Cooler's, Matthews Archery, Maven Optics, the White Tail Institute of North America, Trophy Ridge and Hunt Terror Maps. And with all of that said, UM, and I wonder if any of you guys are still doing that drinking game when I say all that said, if so, UM, it's been a little light today, but there you go. There's a couple here at the end. So with all that said, thanks again for your support and until next time, stay wired to Hunt.