00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. 00:00:19 Speaker 2: Welcome to the. 00:00:20 Speaker 3: Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm joined by Benji Backer and Ben Cassidy of the newly formed nonprofit Nature Is non Partisan, and we're discussing the importance of in the methods for making nature nonpartisan once again. All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light and their Camo for Conservation initiative, and today we are continuing our Conservation Month series. 00:00:53 Speaker 2: We've talked white tales, We've. 00:00:55 Speaker 3: Talked public lands, and today we are taking things in what I think is a really exciting direction, and I think it's a really important direction, because this is a conversation about bringing the environmental movement and conservation and public lands advocacy and all of these things, taking them out of the partisan football bickering, name calling our team versus your team kind of world in which they have lived for a long time, and instead looking for ways to bring this stuff back into the middle as a non partisan or bipartisan set of issues that all of us can engage in, whether you feel like you're on the blue side or the red side, or somewhere in between, regardless of who's in office. What can we all gather around and move forward on. That is the broad set of ideas and topics that we're discussing today. And we're discussing it with a couple folks who are doing something very excited, relate, or very exciting related to all this, and that is Benji Back and Ben Cassidy. Both of them are here from a brand new organization that is actually publicly launching today when this podcast drops on March twentieth, twenty twenty five, and Benji is the founder of Nature as Nonpartisan and Ben is the chief policy officer for the new organization, and we're going to have them on here on the show in a moment to talk about a whole bunch of different things that I think are very relevant to people who hunt, or fish, or care about wildlife or open lands, public lands, the ability to hike, fish, camp, hunt, any of those things. This is stuff that is very pertinent to us that has a direct impact on our ability to do those things and have healthy wildlife and healthy wild places to do them in. So let me give you a little bit interesting background about these guys and why I wanted to have them on the show to have this conversation. So Benji, Benji has an interesting background in story that led to him, as a pretty young person starting a conservation organization, conservation organization called the American Conservation Coalition, and this was I think one of the very first right of center organizations focused on tackling environmental and climate related issues and looking at it through a lens of maybe more conservative values or ideas. And he started that and was wildly successful, you know, given maybe certain headwinds within that side of the aisle when it comes to those issues, he was able to gather tens of thousands of members to be involved in this organization and get focus in Congress and with our various parts of our elected officials to engage on these issues in certain ways. So he has this very interesting background there. Ben Cassidy came from another set of interesting ideals, ideas and backgrounds, and that he is a hunter himself. He is war worked as an executive vice president with the Safari Club. He also worked in the Department of the Interior during the first Trump administration, so he worked you back during that period, you know, within the government and saw what was done and how it was done and why things got done. Now, given those two perspectives that the both of them have, they saw that there were many things that were getting caught up in the partisan b yes my words, not theirs. But they saw issues and places and causes that they both cared about related to the environment and the natural world that got pushed one way or the other because Democrats were traditionally behind it, or because Republicans were traditionally behind it, or because the two parties couldn't get together and just have a conversation about this stuff. And so Benji decided to start an organization that would try to open this discourse, to bring these sides together, to find, as they call it, the Coalition of the Willing, that eighty percent in the middle who just care about these things and want to find ways to move them forward, regardless of you know, if it's a deal or r in the office. And so they started Nature as nonpartisan. The idea of it is something I'm really excited about. If you've been a longtime listener to this podcast, if you've been following me and in my career and my books and the different things I work on, you know that I strongly believe in this idea that we can achieve so much more when we put the partisan labels and bs aside and instead focus on our shared values and having open conversations about the things we care about and getting creative about solutions. Nothing gets done when we name call and finger point and get behind, you know, get behind enemy lines, or get behind our own party lines and point fingers at the other side and blame everything at them. You know, Calling Republicans evil demagogues who are going to destroy the world and then not engaging them with them on anything isn't getting anything done. Calling democrats crazy snowflakes and libtards or whatever kind of thing you want to call them, and saying we're never going to work with them because they're ruining the world, that's not going to help either. If we can instead remember that we are all just humans. We are all people that come from different perspectives. Our lives have been informed by different experiences and different stories that we've kind of learned about how the world works. We all have this different lens that we're looking at the world through. It doesn't mean we're evil, doesn't mean that we're bad. It just means we see things differently. If we can talk about it and be open to these different ways of seeing the world, we can probably find some common ground. We can probably find some ways to help achieve all sorts of different priorities. And that's I think what a lot of this comes down to when it comes to the politics of the environment and public lands and wildlife and clean air and clean water, all that kind of stuff, right, because we all have different perspectives, we all have different priorities, and the only way that we're ever going to get something done is not by demeaning and attacking people simply because they come from a worldview or from a background that has different sets of priorities, but instead by talking about it, by working together, by doing the hard work of tackling issues that aren't necessarily easy but that can be overcome by people talking, people working, people compromising, people getting to understand where we're all coming from. That's how most good things in our country have gotten done over the years. And unfortunately, when it comes to the environment. That's not happened a whole lot. Sometimes it does, but a lot of the stuff's got pulled into one side or the other. And nature's nonpartisan. I'm very excited about this mission that they have is to really change that and to find ways to move the ball forward to get positive things done for the environment, no matter what parties in office. So they are going to work with Democrats, they are going to work with Republicans. If the Biden administration was around, they'd be working with them right now. The Trump administration is in right now, so they're going to work with the Trump administration. And interestingly, and what I think is a strong signal. 00:08:13 Speaker 2: Of the. 00:08:15 Speaker 3: Of what these guys are trying to do. They have a staff and leadership and board of directors and group of advisors that are split between more conservative conservative people and liberal people. So they are being directed, they are being informed, and they are building their plans from this bipartisan perspective. They have people with conservative ideas and liberal ideas. They've got people in the middle and all points in between. And I think that's a great idea. I think that's something that can lead to this thing actually working. And because of all that you know, I've volunteered my perspectives and ideas as a strategic. 00:08:52 Speaker 2: Advisor to their organizations. 00:08:53 Speaker 3: So I'm going to be stepping in and helping and hopefully being a voice for hunters and anglers within this organization, making sure that our interests are well voiced and that we can be doing good things for fish and wildlife and hunting and fishing and the natural world and all those other things that we care so much about. So that is a long winded way of giving you the background on how all this came to be, Why I'm excited about having this conversation, why I'm excited about you guys hearing this one today, because I think it will, hopefully, you know, not only introduce you to this organization, but also inspire you to think about things a little bit differently, to think about ways that we can engage no matter who our elective officials are, no matter who your neighbors are, no matter who the people are down the road. With a different flag flying, right, I've got some flags in my neighborhood that say nasty things about the past president. I've got some flags flying in my neighborhood that say nasty things about. 00:09:48 Speaker 2: The current president. 00:09:50 Speaker 3: I'm going to engage with any in all of them because I care a lot about these things that we're here to talk about today, hunting, fishing, fish, wildlife, public lands, the natural and I'm going to do anything I can, and I would hope that a lot of you listening would do to help those causes, regardless of whatever political situation we're in. That's what we're going to discuss today. And as I promised last week during our podcast with Kel, that discussion with me and Ryan was all about defense. How do we play defense for public lands and the environment, again, regardless of who's in office. 00:10:25 Speaker 2: How do we make. 00:10:26 Speaker 3: Sure that our elected officials are held accountable for potentially concerning or bad decisions when it comes to our environment or public lands. Now, today we're going to take the opposite approach, which is how do we go on the offensive. This is something that thinks really cool about what Benji and Benn are doing. They're going to find ways they can move the ball forward. What are the wins that we can find rather than raising red flags, rather than raising concerns which are important, again, no matter who's in office, they are important. And other organizations and individuals can do that. But Nature's non partisan is to take the approach of Okay, let's figure out what can get done and let's move that forward, no matter who we have to work with, let's get something good done. So that's we discuss. We dive into some specific opportunities, some specific places and ways that you know, the natural world and the environment and maybe public lands and wildlife can can get some wins over the next few years if we all do our job and inform our elected officials of what our priorities are and how these can help the administration achieve theirs. That's we discussed. So this is going to be a positive, optimistic, forward thinking conversation about how we can get good stuff done these next four years, and then no matter who wins the next election, we're going to keep the ball moving forward. And we're going to do that by bringing conservatives and liberals and independence altogether on the things we can agree on and the things we can move forward to make sure that we have fish, that we have wildlife, that we have clean air, clean water, open public lands and everything we all we need to keep this incredible set of traditions that. 00:12:04 Speaker 2: We have thriving and available for all. 00:12:07 Speaker 3: Of us into the future, as well as a healthy planet for all of us and our kids to live on too. 00:12:12 Speaker 2: Is that that much to ask for? I think not so. 00:12:16 Speaker 3: Without any further ado, I like to introduce you to Benji Backer and Ben Cassidy of Nature is Nonpartisan. All right with me on the line, We've got Benji Backer and Ben Cassidy. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. 00:12:38 Speaker 4: It's great to be here. Yeah, thanks for having us. Mark. 00:12:41 Speaker 3: I'm excited about this one because, as both of you had to hear from at one point on the phone, as I rattled on about my thoughts around this topic, I have long wanted there to be a more bipartisan movement or nonpartisan movement around the natural world, the environment, hunting, fishing, public lands, all that kind of stuff. And it just seems like it's been too long since that's been the case. So I will open by saying thank you, I'm excited, and then to you, why why now? Why In this moment when the world seems more polarized than ever, the news, the social media, everything seems like a constant fire alarm. There are a lot of legitimate things going on that are caused for questions and debate and discussion and all that stuff. But it's a moment where maybe some people might think, why in the world would you try to launch something of this right now? So that's my question to you, I guess to start Benji's is why this right now? 00:13:52 Speaker 5: Well, I think the why is more important than ever before. I feel like, you know, the division that we're seeing, the polarization that we're seeing, is the exact reason why we need this organization. I mean, you go back to history, you look at the environment, and it was not caught up in culture wars. You know, it transcended that. We always use the statistic, but seventy eight percent of Americans self identified as environmentalists in nineteen ninety seventy eight percent, and today it's less than forty percent, and it's decreasing. And that's because the issue is being caught up in partisanship for far too long. And the reality is when you have that ping pong back and forth of like extreme right versus extreme left on any issue, but especially the environment, you don't get good results. Either get radical results that are undone by the next you know, governor or president or Congress, or you just don't get any action whatsoever. And our environment deserves better than partisan politics. Our environment deserves better than culture wars. Our environment deserves better than being ineffective every time that a preferred candidate wins or loses an election. And the reality is is that, like you know, we're in this moment of extreme division. No one thinks that it's possible for us to come together on any issue, let alone the environment. But this is an issue where we can do it. We're going to prove all those people wrong, and we're going to show maybe you know, politicians and others, that there's an incentive in doing the right thing. What we're going to do with Nature is nonpartisan. Is build the largest non partisan environmental organization that America has ever seen. We are going to evenly split everything that we do conservative to liberals. So for every conservative we have involved, we'll have a liberal person involved. Our grassroots based that we recruit will be similar to that, because when you have a evenly split, truly nonpartisan group, you can actually forge the change you want. You can actually get realistic solutions, and you don't leave people off the table. You know, for so long on this issue, conservatives have felt targeted by top down government regulation and like coastal elites telling them what to do. For far too long, liberals have felt left behind by conservatives not even being at the table whatsoever, and basically just trying to undo everything that the left has done, like neither side is being productive. We're wanting to change that incentive structure, and we're gonna make nature a nonpartisan issue again. And that includes environment, that includes conservation, that includes all these adjacent issues that have been unnecessarily wrapped up in this And the time couldn't be more perfect for this because of how polarizing it is. 00:16:26 Speaker 4: That's why we're starting this. 00:16:27 Speaker 5: The last thing I'll say on this is, you know, I don't need to start a nonprofit. I've already started one which we can get into Like that's I didn't have a dream of starting a second nonprofit. This is this is truly to fill avoid that exists. This is the this is the necessary time. It probably should have been started five or ten years ago, but we need to move fast to make this issue nonpartisan. And someone's got to do it. And why not the team of Ben, Benji Mark and everyone else that's involved. 00:16:54 Speaker 3: Well what about you, Ben, what's your take on this? Because you came from you know, previous successful positions as well. You didn't have to get yourself all tangled up and try to somehow balance the thoughts and ideas and voices of liberals and conservatives and you know, everyone in between. That doesn't seem like an easy way to spend your days as a father, no. 00:17:14 Speaker 5: But I mean it matters with the father right for the next generation and kind of just build off of what Benji was saying and being in Washington, d C. I've traveled all over the country. I mean there is an extreme disconnect I would say between you know, what people are saying and thinking and decisions that are being made in d C. I think that right now, a lot of the dialogue or environments kind of held hostage by a vocal minority. I think it ends up working to the detriment of the environment and just seeing you know, since the last you know, since the start of the year, getting involved with nature, conpartisan, joining the team, just seeing from people how excited they are to have a place to land, a place where you know, the conversation can have. I feel like this, you know, right now, there's a there's a cultural movement where people want to roll up their sleeves. They don't mind the hard work. They'll have those conversations to find a path forward. And that was really you know, my drive for this is I love being able to facilitate that wide spectrum of folks that care about something right to a level where it's they'll put differences aside and they'll work towards it. I mean my background comes the thing, you know, sportsman, and I always say it as a jug, would mean it's seriously too. It's like nobody can love the land, nobody loves wildlife more than a sportsman. You can love it as much as we do, but you can't love it more. And with that though, I have those conversations and like Betty said, like the team we have is made up of the full like political backgrounds. Right, I'm a conservative, we have folks on the team that are liberal. And it's been just amazing to just have just the daily interactions talking about what you know, ties us to nature, what inspires us, and then to just have in the like the culture of our team and just like this clear eyed vis you know this needs to be done and we will lead by example on it. And I really just command Benji for you know, really really taking the mantle with this, and it's inspiring to see, you know, what it's building in terms of support. 00:19:13 Speaker 4: So I would say, you know, there's never been a better time. 00:19:16 Speaker 5: Or or onto that bend like it's this is not easy, like even internally, you know, then we can admit, like it's not always easy having these conversations. It's actually very uncomfortable. But that doesn't happen anymore, right, Like we used to debate solutions and actually come to some sort of uh, compromise, such a bad word these days, so I you know, whatever synonym that is, but we used to come to some sort of compromise. I know, I wish, I wish compromise was not a dirty word. But we used to be able to do that and strike some sort of balance. We're doing that every single day on our team. Our board, like we have former Trump cabinet members and Obama Biden people on the same board. Uh, Sierra Club and Trump on the same board. Like it's it's from people on the same board. It's it's but people like, how does that work? It must be just absolutely nuts, I mean that must be. It was so funny on our last board call. You know, we had the former you know, Conservative leaders and the Sierra Club you know, former Sierra Club CEO all agreeing on something on the same call. And it's just like these sorts of things are, aren't. People don't realize how possible they are. But even when they're not, it's not some kumbay a bridge building thing for the sake of like building good relationships with each other because we want to be happy. It's like, no, this is to get things done. It's uncomfortable. There's some really tough conversations we've got to have. But if we're going to protect all of America, which includes rural communities and urban communities, which includes national parks and private lands, which includes state parks and wildlife corridors, which includes farmers and ranchers and people living in downtown New York City, if we're going to you know, protect all those places, conserve all those places, all those different people have to be represented in the environmental dialogue that hasn't happened in so long. So let's get uncomfortable, let's be a little bit out of our element. Let's put unlikely people together because it might not be easy, but we're going to be able to actually get some things done and put other issues aside to find a common goal. 00:21:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I guess I refer to it as a radically practical mindset where you need to set aside maybe labels or identity or political party or whatever other identifier you want and simply look at, hey, what's going to move the ball forward? What's going to get us closer to the goal line? And to your point, oftentimes it means a little bit of give and take, open communication, recognize and what our shared values are. 00:21:43 Speaker 2: And oftentimes if. 00:21:44 Speaker 3: You just push away and push aside all of these other preconceived notions. I'm sure you guys are seeing this within your own organization. You start to realize, oh, hey, we might not be able to do everything we all want to do, but we could probably move forward on seventy five percent of it and we'll get the faster more effectively together. But you know, you bring up one of the major questions that I had for you, which is, given all of that, given that that is all what we all three at least believe to be true, the how is you know, the devil's in the details, right, So internally, how are you guys negotiating and navigating some of the specifics around Hey, are we going to support this thing or this thing? You know, do we want to be against this thing and against that thing? Or like, how are you handling how? What I guess what I'm getting at is help us all learn to better work with folks that are different from us. What have you guys learned about that? 00:22:40 Speaker 4: Well? 00:22:41 Speaker 5: I think first of all, it's setting the intent. It's a really important question. And if we practice code, we'd be billionaires. And you know, teaching people how to work with each other and solving people's marriages and you know Thanksgiving dinners that they can't count their families at. 00:22:53 Speaker 4: Like, so we haven't. 00:22:54 Speaker 5: Figured you know, fully figured it out. But what I will say is that one thing that going to differentiate us that people are going to notice is that we are explicitly going to be four things. That is, that is what nature is. Nonpartisan is meant to be. There's enough groups pushing back, there's legal entities, there's litigation, there's you know, tac ads, all that stuff. It's easier to raise money for that stuff. Believe me, I could easily raise more money for a nonprofit if we did that we are going to be four things because it's easier to bring people together and get historic change done when you're working for something rather than against something, and you can actually build constituencies that way, and over the long. 00:23:33 Speaker 4: Haul, it actually gets more done. 00:23:34 Speaker 5: I understand that there are bad things that happen, right Benji, why would you why would you not at least oppose some of the most horrific things possible. Well, the reality is if we constantly are opposing things, it's distracting us from the time that we could spend being four things. And it's also burning bridges in the short term and in the long term rather than building bridges for the long term. And so that's that's a huge differentiator. The other differentiator is that we're not trying to aim for some big, like one goal, right, Like we're not saying we need a green new deal or we need to you know, undo that a green new deal. Right It's like, we don't have like one specific policy goal. We're saying, Okay, it's twenty twenty five, it's it's March. You know, what is the best opportunity for us to make the most impact on a policy level? Right now that we can advocate for that Americans agree on that will be that will look different in two years than it does right now, depending on who's president, depending on who's in Congress, and depending on who's the governor. Right, So, let's take the current moment we're in and try to maximize the amount of outcome that we can get. So you the good example of this at the federal level. You know, you've got a president who invested in national parks his last term, who talks about clean air and clean water, who talks about the importance of you know, outdoor recreation, and talks about the importance of farmers. 00:24:56 Speaker 4: Right, take take some of that. 00:24:58 Speaker 5: You look at you've got Republicans in congres, risks with slim majorities. 00:25:01 Speaker 4: Take that. 00:25:03 Speaker 5: Now, within those realities, what could you get done on a bipartisan basis That will be different if you know, you know, Kamala would have won in twenty twenty four and Republicans have the Senate and Democrats at the House or something. So trying to maximize the moment you're in, no matter who's in office, and being four things has been a huge unifier for our team because it allows us to say, you know, we can disagree on X, Y or Z, but eighty percent of Americans want action on protecting national parks and restoring you know, parklands. We as a team believe that too. Let's go and fight for that. So that's that's the sort of a. 00:25:42 Speaker 2: Proach of the app that makes a lot of sense. Then would you add anything there? 00:25:57 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would just say, you know, from like, I would lean on my past experience in working with you know, different groups to find common ground to work towards. 00:26:07 Speaker 4: And it goes a lot to to what Benji is saying. 00:26:09 Speaker 5: But you know, I previously worked at Department of the Interior, right, and I pretty quickly saw that you're gonna have to have full like buy in from conspectum. You're not gonna get full buy in, but you have to have it reflective of just like the American people and the variety of opinions there. And you know, I approached it with the baseline of hey, like baseline, we all agree that we want healthier environment, we all want more abundant. 00:26:34 Speaker 4: Wildlife, we want restored ecosystems. 00:26:37 Speaker 5: And then I would kind of speed date with a lot of you know, these large legacy NGOs and say, okay, speed date. You know, I want to meet with everybody top five priorities, you know, lay them out and I kind of like cross reference them and see where the common ground was, you know, and a lot of that would lead to good legacy wins that people you know that you wouldn't expect to be celebrating together were celebrating together. I talk about, you know, like a great American outdoors act or you know one that I'm super fond of his migration corridors, right, I mean, there's very different approach. There's a very different approach to migration corridors though. 00:27:08 Speaker 3: Right. 00:27:09 Speaker 5: You could have a land designation, or you could have states kind of lead and you know, private landowners and state authorities and all the different federal agencies working together. And we got to a place where Secretary Order of thirty three sixty two was signed that everybody was signing. 00:27:24 Speaker 4: Was it perfect for both sides? 00:27:26 Speaker 6: No? 00:27:26 Speaker 4: I mean they're sure. 00:27:27 Speaker 5: There were cattlemen that we're seeing black helicopters on it, but not trusting as seeing it as a land grab. There were folks saying this ought to be a land grab. It's not a land grab, you know, But at the middle and the actual majority was saying like, wow, this is awesome, and it was really cool. You know, when when Biden came into office and he put out his Executive Order on America the Beautiful, that was one item that carried over, you know, it was celebrated in there. It was a Trump initiative that then became, you know, a Biden initiative, and I you know, we see Congressman Ryan zing Key introducing legislation on and trying to codify and put more money into it. So it's wins like that, and like where those start though, are in the conversations across the board, not just with your friends, but also folks that you know, you normally don't talk to. They kind of just try to suss out where the common ground is. 00:28:16 Speaker 3: Yeah, in something you mentioned, Benji, I think is is really important back to kind of the practicality of a lot of this, and that being the fact that when certain initiatives get pushed through, especially by executive action, in if they are far to one side or the other, they tend to have this pendulum swing where something gets put in place and then a year later or two years later, it's gone, and then a new administration comes in and then something else is put in place, and then nothing really happens because it's just yo yoing back and forth. But you know, when you find things like that example right there, Ben that has support on both sides, it can be enduring and that's where real change actually happens. And I mean, you know, from all sides, there's some ideas that I wish got introduced and stuck around. I'll be bummed at some things disappear, and then there's other things like, hey, this is a great idea, and there's always going to be some of that no matter what. 00:29:11 Speaker 2: But all it's said. 00:29:13 Speaker 3: The next I think natural question then is because this idea sounds great in practice, the perspective, the aim, the approach makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. But I'm curious about how this actually happens. How do we influence folks, elected officials or whoever else we need to be talking to to get some of these things done. What is the nature is nonpartisan playbook? And I'm not looking for the specific opportunities right now, like I don't want to talk about this particular bill or that particular proposal, But what's like in your toolbox to influence whether it's the Trump administration right now, or if it's someone new four years from now or ten years from now, whoever it is, whatever party, what's the toolbock box that you guys are bringing to the table. 00:30:02 Speaker 4: It's a really good question. 00:30:04 Speaker 5: I think I would start out by saying, we want to make it cool in American politics to work across the isle on this stuff. You know, we want to show politicians that they will be rewarded by working across the aisle. We want to celebrate bipartisan wins. We want to have cool celebrities and influencers that people look up to engage. We want to have really amazing content and kind of a brand that people want to identify with, an optimistic, forward looking, truly you know, a brand that people in America are proud to identify with that they care about the environment. And just show politicians because right now they're incentive is to divide, right, their incentives to go on social media and say these great new deal radicals are coming for your land, or you know, these people are trying to drill on national parks and you know, take away all all of the environment that we have right like that, that's really those are the two messages that are incentivized. Right now, let's create a third incentive and incentive to get things. 00:31:00 Speaker 4: It's done. 00:31:00 Speaker 5: So we want to make it cool to be pro environment from a nonpartisan way it used to be. And I think that it's partially a branding thing. The other thing that I think, you know, the tactic we're going to use is really be a proxy for the entire conservation and environmental community. We have a goal by the end of this year to be the main driver of connecting people to other NGOs that are doing the on the ground work that people want to get involved with. You know, I think about my peer group of you know, millennial gen z, I'm kind of a sillennial or whatever they say. You know, people are really interested in getting involved on this issue. They have zero idea where to start. If you search local conservation group on Google, you're going to have eighty five different options. So we're going to build out a system software where people can very easily get tailored to a nonprofit that is relevant for their geography, for whatever interest they have, whatever politically they have, whatever you know, topic whatever. That that will be really helpful because a will be able to be a proxy for all these other NGOs that are doing great work, largely at the local level, but some of the national level too. But we'll also be able to maximize people's impact if they're interested in being involved. You know, you look at these like Nature Conservancy or Zero Club or these traditional NGOs, they have millions of members, but they don't actually do anything about it. And so our goal is to make it super easy for people to be active in the environmental community. So we want to make it cool, and we also want to make it easy to be active. And you know, at the end of the day, politicians react to fear and incentives, and we're not going to play the fear game, but we do want to show them that there's you know, by the end of this year, we said a million Americans we want in our network. Whether that's a million, ten million, you know, or all you know, a few hundred million that live in this country. We want people to in Congress to realize that there is a huge constituency out there that will support them. But the other thing is most people don't even know when something good happens, right Like most people out maybe the people listening to this to but the great American Outdoors Act. Most people have no idea that that happened. Most people have no idea that President Biden worked with Republicans on a pro nuclear policy last you know, last year. Like, those ideas don't sell, So in while we're building out our organization, we're also going to sell these big bipartisan wins so that people can actually hear about them and and be the sounding board for good news on the environment, not just for the sake of selling good news, but for the sake of rewarding people who deserve to be rewarded for doing the right thing. 00:33:42 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you mentioned this earlier, and I think right there it's worth bringing up again the fact that you know, there is this need for celebrating wins and for celebrating the potential and the opportunities. And there's also a need for accountability. 00:33:57 Speaker 5: Right. 00:33:57 Speaker 3: You need the other side. You need folks to play defense or call a beta s babe. I think it's important for the general public to do both, right. I think as an individual citizen, at least I personally feel a responsibility to talk to whoever my lawmakers are and say yes, I love this, no, don't love that so much. I think that's important, But from an organizational standpoint, I think it makes a lot of sense seeing that there's this opportunity, there's this vacuum where there's not a lot of people, you know, incentivizing doing the right thing. There's just a lot of the fear based thing which you mentioned, and that that's kind of covered. We've got organizations that are doing that on both sides in their own different way. So I'm glad that there's someone here who can fill that void. Now to you, ben as a follow up to what Benji was just discussing, to this toolbox, what levers are you guys gonna pull? What tools do you have at your disposal? I'm curious about that. And then also a little bit more around your maybe around like a theory of influence. Because you worked within the previous administration, You've seen this from the inside, and I'm curious about what you guys can do now given your experience and what you've seen, and also having people on your board who have you know, worked with both nonprofits and previous administrations and different things like that, how do you become the most influential, you know, conservation organization in this kind of way? 00:35:17 Speaker 2: What actually creates change. 00:35:22 Speaker 6: Ah, that's a great, great, great question. 00:35:24 Speaker 5: UH would say, you know, I think that the opportunity that lays in front of us is showing folks that when a president comes in, regardless who the president is, it doesn't mean that for a certain segment of population that the switch is on or off. There's always opportunity that there's willing folks and organizations that are out there right now that are always going to have the approach to be constructive and not obstructive. They're going to look for avenues to work through whatever the political makeup is to get our issues across. I think that the onus is on us to show that this is the winning issue. But I have all the faith in the world that it is just based off of again, where people stand on the issues and the coalition that we have in place. You know, first say like this current administration. You know, I make the point all the time, it's not mincing its words. They'll say what their number one priority is and they'll say energy dominance. That could be argued about elsewhere. But I also point out that you know, this isn't new. It was also the top priority during the first term, right. But what I point out is even if that being a top priority, it kind of plays out in the multiple use sort of fashion where you end up having a lot of conservation wins happen at the same time. So I challenge folks that care about you know, nature and the environment and conserving it for future generations to really take the opportunity. 00:36:54 Speaker 6: To express their voice and finding ways to be able to secure those wins during this period of time because it's happened before and we can do it even better this time around. 00:37:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it just seems why throw your hands up and say, ah, you know, these next four years are gonna suck no matter who whatever, no matter what team you're on, right whether you know you're happy with this administration or not, it does not seem particularly productive in my view to say, well, everything's gonna go to hell. 00:37:26 Speaker 4: I hadn't just add to that for a sacon Like. 00:37:28 Speaker 5: I was on a call today with the potential funder and they were like, well, the first two months proved that nothing is possible over the next four years. And you know, that sort of thinking is so broken in American politics. That's like saying, Mark, because you had a bad morning today, you're gonna have a bad afternoon as well. Yeah, you know, like, just because you don't like something that someone did today doesn't mean that you can't get them to do something that you want them to do tomorrow. And it doesn't mean that you still can't call out the thing that you didn't like today. I think, like, yeah, you know, a really good example from from one of my travels recently was I was in Florida speaking at an event with one of the most far left members of the state legislature, and she goes, I hate Ron DeSantis on everything except for resiliency and conservation. I hate him on the other stuff, and and even within his own issue, you could dislike, you know, some of the stuff of it. But but you don't need to like write everything off because you didn't like something that somebody did, especially the first month or two of an administration. And I and that's true for conservatives too. They do the same thing when Democrats are in office. And you know, those two things are are not mutually exclusive. 00:38:39 Speaker 2: Yah. 00:38:39 Speaker 4: Can I just piggyback on that real quick too? 00:38:41 Speaker 5: I Mean, like, one thing that that I've learned, you know, having worked in and outside of government, is not to follow the assumption that an administration is a monolith and it all speaks with just one voice. I'll say, like, during my time an interior I have some of the most rewarding but difficult debates. I'm talking about bare knuckle brawls with other people that were also in the administration over policy issues, over land use issues. They're not all just agreed on and resolved, right. These things are dynamic, They're happening in real time, and you know, they need to be reflective of what people want because they're serving us. But yeah, a lot of folks would just think that it's just yeah, black or white, you. 00:39:20 Speaker 4: Know, red or blue. 00:39:22 Speaker 5: But a lot a lot of thought and fight goes into it, and it's the onus is on us is the community to have that voice at the table. If you're not sitting at the table, you're served on the table, right Yeah. 00:39:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, So with that beautiful framing in mind, then with us wanting to be sitting at the table and not on the plate, let's talk about opportunities. Let's talk about what is possible right now, because because yeah, I mean there's a lot of people who think what you just said, Benji is true, which is man, nothing great's going to happen for the environment right now because of the heavy prioritization on development and energy in the economy and stuff like that, which of course is all is all important. Other people can debate that and the details there, but. 00:40:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been. 00:40:08 Speaker 3: Examples and various things proposed that seem concerning from environmental perspective. But there's certainly our opportunities to give me some good news, give me some some places where we can have wins if we do our jobs, if you guys do what you're gonna do, how do we turn frowns upside down? What are the places where we can get those wins? 00:40:28 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's a really good question because I mean, since since the election was over, you know, we've been putting our heads together with unlikely stakeholders to figure out what the opportunities really are. And you know, it's no secret that you know, and it's probably not popular for me to say this, but it definitely fits the bill of the non partisan nature of our organization. I haven't really enjoyed the last three elections and our options for president, and yet when the election was over, we were like, Okay, what can we make happen? Even though we haven't launched yet. Even though we aren't organization. We had I think one or two full time staff at the time. We barely he created the legal entity, and so we started meeting with Democrats in the Senate, in the House, Republicans in the Senate, in the House, and the Trump administration to figure out what those opportunities are. And there's actually a significant amount there now, you know, again kind of ignoring everything that's already happened and all the noise and all the rhetoric, President Trump did sign into law the last administration the largest investment international parks in recent history. He did block Bristol Bay from being developed from a mining perspective. He had a lot of you know, involvement in Everglades restoration and other conservation. He want, he and his team want to build on that legacy. And of course you can argue that he hasn't built on it during those first couple months of this year, you could argue that. But we are seeing substantial interest from the administration on buying into a historic investment and wildlife protection, in eco system restoration, in supporting farmers with sustainable agriculture, in you know, cleaning our air, in our water. Obviously it's part of his messaging in supporting rural and urban communities in terms of having more you know, supported green space and barriers against extreme storms, infrastructure for water. I mean, these are like big things that that need action, right and so climate people are going to be like, oh, that's not good enough, and you know we're not you know, setting aside enough land and we're not you know, scaling clean energy enough or whatever. And people on the right are when this hopefully happens, which I think it will soon in terms of him unveiling this agenda, and I believe that this will turn the discourse around as well. Whether the discourse has been fair or not is up to you know, up to debate, probably on a case by case basis. But like you know, this kind of he's tearing down everything for the environment I think will change once we have you know, this very positive progress made. But I mean, these are these are real issues that need to be so. I mean, our biodiversity is at risk increasingly more and more every single day. Our public lands are undermanaged and undervalued from a funding perspective, but they also are probably overmanaged from a red tape perspective. For lack of better term, we call it green tape to be able to actually go and manage those places and make sure that forest fires don't happen. I mean, all these are big ideas that need attention that the President is willing to work on that. We've seen so much interest on it, and it's genuine interest. It's not like, you know, a facade. They actually want to get this done. 00:43:36 Speaker 4: Now. I'm not going to applaud that until. 00:43:39 Speaker 5: It gets done, but I do want to just say, and I hope that this is true once, once it happens, If it happens. We've had so much interest from Democrat leaning organizations who say, look, I'm really upset with what's going on on this issue and others, but we will be there to support that if that can happen, and so many conserv who are like, thank goodness, we are so excited about having something to be for. People are excited about this, and you know, we're calling it make America Beautiful again. To also meet the moment and meet people where they're at. And the people who matter in this situation are the Republicans in leadership, and there's a real opportunity to kind of change the discourse. And if President Trump invested in this historic investment in all those different issues that I just outlined, I think it would make a huge meaningful change in changing the narrative nationally that this issue has to be partisan, because in so many people's minds, he is the least likely to do it. I would argue that there's a lot of proof that he is willing to engage on this stuff. But even if you think that or not, him acting on this with some Democrats, even just a few, would make a huge difference in changing the discourse of this for decades to come. 00:44:52 Speaker 3: I think yeah, And I think and you would hope that if this happens that you would see that celebration from the other side too, right, because look, we were talking earlier. At least I'll speak for myself as an individual, I think it's important to call a spade a spade when you're not happy with an elected official about something, regardless of if it's a deer r but vice versa. So hey, you know, if all of a sudden, we're going to see the person that we don't think is going to do something good for clean air, water or the public plans or whatever. If they do Heck, yeah, I don't care who does it. I don't care if you're wearing a rhetoric. I just want the thing. I just want the thing to get done. I think approaching these things from an issue by issue perspective is so much it makes a whole lot more sense than me to me, then this, uh, you know, is my team in the lead or your team in the lead. I don't think that's helping anyone that said the devil is in the details on this kind of stuff. So ben can you speak in any more detail on some of the specifics here, Like like Benji just said, Hey, we're getting interest from the current administration on doing good things for wildlife or doing things for clean air and clean water, et cetera. Can you you know you are you in a position to speak to any specific you know, bills that might be getting some extra support if they were to go forward on this or is there any you know, any proposal or executive order or or anything tangible that you guys are pushing for right now that you think has a pathway to success in the near future. 00:46:25 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I just backtracked to what Benji is saying too, and about meeting the moment, I would say, you know, one thing that's going to happen during the next four years is the is the the two hundred and fiftieth birthday. I think like what that is going to do for the country has really raised the conversation around patriotism, what it means to be American, and I think a lot of people forget and it's a great time to re educate or educate folks on it is. You know, stewardship is American. It was a revolutionary what we did in this country when you go back to Teddy Roosevelt's legacy, you know, in creating the National Park, to some wildlife refuges, just the North American model of conservation. These are some of our greatest exports. 00:47:06 Speaker 7: You know. 00:47:06 Speaker 5: I've traveled all over the world and talked to wildlife management authorities and you know, they look to us as being that gold standard. And I really think it's a chance to you know, give the current state of things a silver eyed view of where issues need to be addressed and then work towards solutions towards them. So in terms of like specifics on policy, I'm not going to dictate them, you know, from our perch but we're going to find that common ground policies to move forward on. I would say, you know, starting points though, would be building off of successes that we saw in the in the last administration that carried through this administration. I would also look at, you know, natural solutions to a lot of the crisis that we face. Now you know where nature turns on us in a way, you know, in a superpower sort of sense, is dangerous talking about like wildfires. You know, we saw if you want to have specific legislation, like in the House, the Fixer Forest Act, you know, one of the first bills that was even voted on. I think that it came one vote short of being able to pass on suspension out of the House, and it would have had you know a number of Democrat members not been back in their districts, you know, dealing with the aftermath of of the buyers. We'll see that move over to the Senate. Now imagine you know, in their own you know fashion, they'll they'll get it out of there and over to the President's desk. You know, there's unfinished business from the last term. If you look at like trillion trees, there's an executive order on that workout of e p A on on A on Ocean plastics, Great American Outdoors Act that's up for reauthorization. You know, there's going to be a sober look at it, right. I mean, I don't know if the math change or or or what went into it, but the Deferman's backlog is doubled since it was passed, and that was really what it was meant to address, or a big portion of it. So how can we direct those funds more effectively? I don't think that the list of opportunities. 00:49:09 Speaker 4: Is short at all. 00:49:10 Speaker 5: It's a matter of again coalescing folks that are representing millions of hunters, anglers, conservationists, outdoor enthusiasts and finding those solutions to push forward. And really, you know, a lot of with Benji's put together, here is that chorus that's going to celebrate and to remind folks in DC that this is the voice of the people, this is what we expect. We want a government to work for us. And I think, you know, the key first step to unlocking a lot of this because a lot of a lot of these ideas are being proposed in bipartisan policies. People don't realize it and as a C three. We can't like lobby for those, but you know, telling the public that they're out there. There's a lot of bipartisan bills on this stuff. They often don't get through because it's not as big of a priority as flamming the other side or you know, playing in the partisan sandbox on other issues. Our goal is to have the President gave a mandate to not a mandate to that's from him to dictate all the environmental action, but to say, hey, Congress, we want you to act on these core subjects, some of the ones that I talked about earlier. You know, Hey, Cabinet secretaries, we want you to act on this, so that he's basically setting the precedent that he wants this to be a priority during the next two and four years. That's kind of the first step. So that mandate, you know, is something that we're seeing a lot of interest on just because it sets a vision, right, It allows everything to be packaged underneath the same sort of vision, and it allows people to work within it, and it sets some goals and parameters that are a little bit more broad like I talked about earlier, but only anything's off the table, really, like we're seeing a lot of interest. There's a laundry list of ideas. There's a lot of great mngos that have put together great ideas. We're basically giving the administration, Hey, here are a lot of great ideas, and you know, we don't need you to buy into every single one of them or like every one of them, but which ones do you like? And so we'll have a little bit more clarity on that in the next few weeks. You know, we've got some clarity that we probably shouldn't speak on. But like there's before, it's actually you know, permanent. But I think people who care about conservation and the environment will be very happy with the types of ideas that we're talking about. And they're not just like little crumbs to support public lands or just for wildlife or whatever. These are big steps, like historic achievements that could be celebrated by all And that's the goal that we have and and honestly, we want it to be a four year project that to Ben's common earlier about one item the Wildlife Quarters that went from Trump to Biden, that becomes a decade long project of you know, presidents making this a priority every time they go into office saying that they're going to work across the aisle to do it. And so this isn't just a twenty twenty five thing. This is a multi decade long thing. And so whenever we get done this year, we can build on next year and just keep making this a priority going forward. 00:52:10 Speaker 3: How do you guys think about getting mental space within the administration and other folks right now? Given everything else in the air, given all the other priorities, given you know, a clear mandate to cut costs. A lot of the things that folks that are interesting conservation wins are asking for is funding for the National Park Service backlog, or for grants to support habitat management, or for a million different things. Right a lot of this stuff costs money. And right now, you know, for all sorts of reasons, there is cutting of staff, cutting of budgets, et cetera. 00:52:49 Speaker 2: How do we. 00:52:50 Speaker 3: Move the ball forward given that climate, like the political climate we're in around that, you know, I could see that being particularly challenging, and. 00:53:00 Speaker 4: It hasn't been easy. 00:53:03 Speaker 5: I think in any first couple months of any administration it would be easy. Obviously, President Trump has come in, you know, for better or for worse, depending on how you look at it, like just with a huge amount of work that he's unloading on to different agencies and different people, and so it's it is a clouded room right now. Obviously, I think it really speaks to our model though of showing the incentive of doing something on this. So you know, we we are offering the ability for the President and Democrats and Republicans to achieve a historic win that is a legacy for all of them, right, that has celebrities and influencers that they look up to affiliated with it, that has America celebrating it, that has really good visuals, and just like you know, a moment in time that they'll look back on and be proud of. And that's the sort of incentive that we're giving, right We're giving them the grassroots, we're giving them the cultural and we're giving them kind of like the personal legacy aspect. We're not going to them and saying if you don't do this, you know, the world's going to burn, if you don't do this, we're going to come after you or whatever. We're providing a very positive incentive. And yes, we haven't gotten through fully in the first two months to the point where I could tell you that we've already had all these accomplishments, but we made a ton of progress in two months with that more positive approach with not just the Trump administration. I keep hammering on this, but like also Democrats as well and Republicans who are like so excited about this more incentive based approach to do the right thing. And so that's how you got I mean, I think over time that just compounds and it allows you to build momentum because every time, like we're providing value to legislators to do the right thing right, they will be rewarded for doing the right thing. 00:54:53 Speaker 4: So they want to do it. 00:54:54 Speaker 5: They want to have their picture taken, you know, celebrating a massive success, so that they can tell their can situents and so that they can reach a new demographic of Americans. So this is this is this is kind of our model at work right away. Uh, you know, we're launching you know, you know this spring, but we don't we We've already had this body of work that proves the model out even in the first few months of this year. And I would just say that the other thing that people need to realize is that you know, in addition to to sort of this incentive based approach, the President and his team, again like it or not, are burning things down to try to you know, balance the fiscal budget and kind of reset the government and all that stuff. They're they're not gonna do that forever. They're they're gonna want to build back with better and more efficient ways to do things. And that's a great opportunity for people who care about the environment to go and say, Okay, this is how we rebuild conservation and make it more efficient, and make it more effective, and make it more you know, balance between private landowners and public landowners and ranchers and hunters and farmers and anglers and hikers and like like, there's a way to kind of you know, through the dust, have it settle to a better outcome. Because this is this isn't just like going to be dusty for the next four years. We are going to get through it and then we're going to rebuild. And you know, we're in a really good spot to be doing that, and fairly shortly, fairly shortly. 00:56:20 Speaker 3: One of the kind of tenants, I guess you could call it of your of the approach I think you guys are taking I've seen it listed on you know, some documentation or your website somewhere. But this idea of utilizing and in fostering big civic engagement, I'm curious if if you could speak a little bit more about that, what that means and what that can mean at an individual level. So by that, I mean for somebody listening right now, how can they act in such a way that they can be involved in big civic engagement? That actually makes a difference because I think a lot of people that care about these things that are hunters or anglers or client or bikers or whatever, and they love wild places and wildlife. 00:57:03 Speaker 2: And clean air and clean water all those things. 00:57:06 Speaker 3: A lot of the decisions made about that seems so outside of their influence and so beyond them that you can have this kind of throw your hands up in the air feelings sometimes because you don't seem like you have any agency. How do we reclaim that with big civic engagement? And I guess benjiel lets you kick that one off, But I want to hear your thoughts too, Ben. 00:57:27 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'll let it go over to Ben too, because I've been talking a lot. But yeah, I would just say, like hyper specific is better. Like, you think about all the different issues that we have in this country environmentally, and they're all I think the environmental movement has been kind of difficult to make an impact with because they're so broad. It's like, you know, we want climate action, Okay, well what does that actually look like? 00:57:51 Speaker 4: You know? Or we want we want public lands to be protected. 00:57:54 Speaker 5: Okay, what does that actually look like? Because each case by case example is different. Right, if you're talking about a land in Georgia, the different need from a policy perspective than the deserts of Arizona where I live, Right, So, like, let's let's have advocacy around issues that people care about in a hyper specific way. If you care about wildlife corridors, you know, have have your legislator hear you on that. If you care about a national park being created in Georgia, which I was just reading about, you know, instead of having it be a mind like advocate about that, like, be as specific as possible about what you're for, because it allows your legislator to actually do something about it. 00:58:36 Speaker 4: Like, all, we want you to care about the environment. 00:58:38 Speaker 5: Okay, well you know that that kind of like they still hear it and they still care to hear it, but they don't really know what to do about that. And you know, the more that people can hear about specific indiatives, the better. So I think that that's where, you know, we're going to try to really build out our model for people is allow people to advocate for specific issues that they care about. Some people care about climate change, some people care about clean energy, some people care about hunting and fishing, and some people care about ecosystem restoration, and some people care about none of those things. Right, So trying to make it as easy as possible because everyone's why for carrying out the environment is somewhat different, and advocating for something that you personally care about rather than trying to do some broad push A will get more people involved, but B will make it a lot more effective. 00:59:20 Speaker 4: Ben Yeah, I think you put it really well, Benji. 00:59:25 Speaker 5: But I love that idea of big citizenship, and I think you know, I think it is originally kind of coined as like a counter a foil to like big government. But when I talk about like big citizenship just in the last couple of months, I guess it goes back a few more months. 00:59:39 Speaker 4: In a couple of months, but like we've talked. 00:59:40 Speaker 5: To like Senator Martin Heinrich, also talk to you know, Vice President JD. Vance that really espouse the importance of it and sees tremendous value in it. I saw Secretary Burgham a few weeks back and he made a comment about nobody loves the habitat or the wildlife of North Dakota more than you know, the management authorities. 01:00:01 Speaker 4: There in North Dakota. 01:00:02 Speaker 5: You know, all these folks can come, folks can come and visit, but they don't have that and that appreciation. 01:00:08 Speaker 4: So what what that means to say is, you know, people. 01:00:11 Speaker 5: Love their backyards more more than anybody else. And there's real untapped potential there. And we're looking at you know, the administration has a stance today where it's really you know, considering the role of government and what it plays and you know, how it should be deployed, and they're really looking towards empowering states, empowering local communities. 01:00:30 Speaker 4: What does that mean? 01:00:31 Speaker 5: How do we how do we you know, have policies that really allow for folks to be more front and center in direct hands on stewardship, you know, like gets merit and law and and how that's implemented. So I think that that's a that's a really big one where we have a huge opportunity you know, and talking you know with folks that are working on the celebration, the two hundred and fiftieth birthday celebration. It's going to be one of the core pillars of it is it is volunteerism, is service. I think that you know, for for our needs on our public lands, on our private lands, in our environment, I think that plays a direct role where we can really step up and fill in. 01:01:11 Speaker 4: I mean, just just quickly. 01:01:12 Speaker 5: I'm like, let's just take forest management for example. The need for civic leadership is obviously critical to like make force management and better care of our forces happen from a policy standpoint, But what Ben was just talking about for the for the government to empower local communities to help take care of those forests, right for states to be involved. 01:01:35 Speaker 4: It's not for states to go clear cut it. 01:01:37 Speaker 5: I think that's like the misnomer, like there's a there's a middle ground between like selling off public land, which is not what we're raavigating for, and like letting local stakeholders have more of a stake in it, right, have more of a voice. So that sort of like involvement from like everything for the environmental community has seemed like it's come from d C and been told by d C to as a directive to the people. And what I think we can do with this more like civic leadership, big civic leadership idea is trying to make environmentalism and conservation a truly all American thing again, something that we all share and are all involved with, whether that be because you're involved with your local gardening club or because you're a local forest forest firefighter, or you are a duck hunter who's helped restoring a habitat in coastal Louisiana, or you're a trash picker upper at a beach in Florida. That sort of leadership is what actually makes changes for the environment rather than like trying to rely all on DC. And I think the more that we can involve all Americans in this the better. 01:02:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, And man that on the ground, local work not only makes you know, not only does it make a difference to the specific cause that you're working on, but it also does a whole lot for your peace of mind, your state of mind, your sense of agency. The feeling that, Okay, I actually can do something. I was just this past weekend down in Kentucky volunteering on the Daniel Boone National Forest. We planted one three hundred trees on the National Forest, and I felt a whole lot more effective on that one day that I felt in weeks making phone calls or sending emails. So a little bit of on the groundwork is just very good therapy, let alone just tangibly good too. Now that said, the phone calls, the emails needing both exactly. So, Ben you worked in the Department of the Interior, you were involved with the previous administration. For people who want to be more effective at communicating with their elected officials or folks, what makes effective communication? What makes for a public comment or a phone call or whatever communication method we're talking about, how do you actually get through and make a difference? Ben Benji mentioned a few things earlier, but I'm curious from you know, giving your experience there, if we want to either advocate foreign issue or against a particular thing, how do we be more effective as individuals in doing that? 01:04:09 Speaker 7: Okay, So my take on it is government is huge, right, It's massive, So it doesn't have the ability sometimes to get down to the level of just a single individual person. 01:04:21 Speaker 4: So I believe that there's always power in numbers. 01:04:23 Speaker 5: I don't want to be a total like salesman for like n G O s, but I've experienced it firsthand when people cobble together, you know, as a group and and have like thoughtful comments and send them over that they're they're better received, you know. So I think you like it depends on you know, what you care about right in terms of issues, But there's always a group out there that you can trust, you know, that that that that tells it like it is, you know, and going with them to get your to get your comments through. And I think that's a really big piece of like what we're building with nature nonpartisan, is that large mass of people that we're going to tell them, you know, like it is where the opportunities are and be able to interface with government, letting them know where you know, a massive folks stand. 01:05:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, I could agree more. And I think like. 01:05:15 Speaker 5: You need a vehicle, whether it be a local group or a national group to help kind of with the power numbers thing. I've talked to members of Congress especially who and I think state legislators it's very similar who hate being called out specifically on social media, like they read everything, and so I think, like I would actually flip that and say, how about I mean people as an organization, we are going. 01:05:41 Speaker 4: To be four things like we talked about earlier. 01:05:43 Speaker 5: But I mean, if you can reward people too for doing the right thing on social media, provide an echo chamber of support when they do the right thing, it's even more powerful. Sometimes if you're on the other side, you say, hey, I didn't vote for you, but I really appreciate that you did this, like even just that sort of thing, and obviously if it's from your own side, it's great too. So I think it's it's it's a mixture of not just like pushing against people, but pushing for people and joining, like, you know, organizations that can represent your values. And that's actually kind of full circle of why Nature's on artisan exists, which is that there is really no organization that I believe someone could join. And I'm not trying to throw my NGO friends under the bus here, but like that advocates for the environment in a way that actually represents the whole of America. Like I can't think of anybody. And again it's not a knock, but it also used to exist, so it can exist. It's proof that it can exist, and we are going to do and Ben just described to try to make sure that everyone's represented at the table and that we make it easy, right, Like people don't enough time to go and advocate like you and I might because it's partially our job, but it's one hundred percent my job, So it's you know, but it's it's our job as an organization to represent the people that are part of our network. And so if people have sixty hour work weeks and kids at home, that they can be part of Nature's non Partisan, but we can help represent them if they don't have the time to advocate for themselves. 01:07:09 Speaker 4: So I think it's a mixture of both. 01:07:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, So tell me this over the next twelve months or so, you know, today when this podcast drops, it will be the launch date of the organization, the public launch day of the organization. So over the next twelve months, what does involvement with nature Is Nonpartisan look like for an individual, So someone listening right now, if they were to head over to your website and you know, pop in their email address, sign the pledge, whatever, what would their engagement with your organization look like over this next year. What are you going to ask of them and or provide them and or have them be aware of over this next year. 01:07:51 Speaker 5: Well it's a really good question, and we're going to build this out a lot over the next couple months. But there's two clear, two clear reasons to join us from a logistical standpoint, and then also from one from a mission standpoint, which is already clear. So from the logistical standpoint, we are going to do two things. One, we are going to have a really easy to use advocacy hub that allows people to advocate for the issues that they specifically care about two elected officials, and make it super seamless, not a lot of steps, and again. 01:08:19 Speaker 4: Tailored to their issues that they care about. 01:08:22 Speaker 5: Second, we also are going to connect them with aligned center left, center and center right nonprofits that are tailored to them as well. If they if they choose, you know, they don't need to be connected to another nonprofit if if they don't want to be, but if you have, if there's a local group in your area that's doing amazing work and is truly living up to the nonpartisan ethos, and actually doing that on the ground work, and you want to work with them, we're going to help you find them. 01:08:46 Speaker 4: So that's that's kind of like, those are the two things. 01:08:48 Speaker 5: Our advocacy hub and helping connect you to other groups as well that are more on the ground than us as a national group, so that both of those I don't think really exists. Advocacy is really hard right now. It's kind of difficult to even find a way to do it in your own authentic way. We're going to fix that. And then it's also really hard to find other groups too, and we're going to fix that. But the other thing that sets us apart is that we are the only national group that's working on this stuff that is truly trying to do this from a non partisan standpoint. Everything we do will be evenly split conservatives of liberal. 01:09:19 Speaker 4: There's no other organization that has that intention. 01:09:22 Speaker 5: And so if you want to join an organization to advocate, to learn, to celebrate wins, to get things done, all the things that we're going to do, and you and you want to know for sure that they are actively balancing the political spectrum to get just good results. That's how you get good results is when you have a collaboration of ideas, this is your home. And if you don't want that, if you want to play partisan politics, this is not your place. And you know, we don't want radical right and radical left people who are part of the problem. We want the eighty percent of America. They can be conservative, they can be liberal, they can be proud Republicans and proud Democrats, but on this issue, they're willing to understand that we have a common goal and to get to the common goal, we have to work with each other. And that doesn't mean compromising your values. It means coming to a solution that works for everybody to the best of its ability. And that's something that will set us apart from everyone else. In addition to those kind of like nuts and bolts advocacy things. 01:10:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, would you add anything to that, Ben. 01:10:21 Speaker 5: No, just having a hub too, to just show you know where where the issues lie and where the solutions are being provided. And again it's telling people how they can engage right, how they can do something proactive and be a part of the solution. 01:10:39 Speaker 4: Because again, yeah, it's. 01:10:40 Speaker 5: Like depending on where you are on inspectrum, Like some people are just saying, you know, I want to sit out. I feel like my voice doesn't matter, you know. So this is creating a space where no, we found the common ground. We found an item that you can push and make great progress on it, and it'll. 01:10:55 Speaker 6: Make a difference to feeling that you'll feel at home. 01:10:58 Speaker 3: Yeah, so imagine this. Imagine we are a little bit less than four years in the future. The next election is coming around, people are debating everything all over again, and you know, you know how it goes. I'm wondering if you can imagine that time period in a world in which nature is nonpartisan, has been a wild success, in which you have achieved your goals as much as you possibly could in three and you know, half years or so, and you are sitting there looking back on what you accomplished from now until then, what would have gotten done? 01:11:39 Speaker 2: What would that. 01:11:40 Speaker 3: Future look like if that were to actually play out? And I'll let I'll let ben you lead with that one, and then Benji you can have the final word. 01:11:51 Speaker 5: Yeah, a successful four years is having folks that can look back and know that they were apart and achieving restored and thriving ecosystems, resilient, healthy, abundant wildlife, that they were an active participate participant in democracy, in seeing greater protections happen and in a better future for our wild places and our wild things. And then from there saying we're not gonna stop. We're gonna get our friends to join as well. We're going to get Dee to make the difference, no matter who sits in the White House, no matter who's in Congress, and it will completely change the way the environment has talked about and approached, the whole shift in the dialogue. Yeah, and to build on that, I think, you know, we'd love to see historic bipartisan achievements, things that you could look back on, like you could look back on the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, in Diinjured Species Act. Obviously those were long lasting and they do need some amendment, I think, but like they've lasted fifty ish years because they were bipartisan, right so, and they were massive landmark achievements. 01:12:59 Speaker 4: I think he could accomplish a few of those, and I would really like to see that happen. 01:13:03 Speaker 5: I'd also love to be able to ask the average person on the street do you see the environment as a partisan issue in America right now? And have them say no, because right now it would be an absolute yes, and that is something that we all know, and it's trackable just by the fact that we all know it, and I think we unanimously should be able to say that that's not true any longer by the end of the next four years. And then I would also just say that this becomes the norm in policy, right Like you know, I think back to when I went to Richard Nixon's library to speak about my book about a year ago, and one of his old campaign team members, one of his young ades was Who's still Alive, was there and he was showing me the campaign booklet where the environment was listed last in the campaign booklet, and I asked him, you know why is this listed last? You guys had some of the biggest environmental achievements in American history. And he said, because it was an expectation that Americans had for us to lead on it. We didn't need to campaign on it as our top issue because people knew that we would, that we would work on it either way, and that if we didn't, we'd be hell accountable and if we did, we'd be rewarded. That needs to be the norm very soon, and not to say that we don't debate it. Not to say it's not a priority, because it absolutely needs to be. But in twenty twenty eight, could Nature's nonpartisan host a presidential debate about the environment and conservation and they're debating the solutions like they used to. That would be an awesome norm to have, and I think it's it's very reasonable to get there in that short amount of time. 01:14:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would love I would love for that to be the case. I would love to see both sides legitimately debating solutions, with creative and innovative solutions on both sides, and we can we can find what the middle ground is, but everyone at the table on that. That would be tremendous. And I think, as we've all been discussing here, a big part of making that happen is from us as individuals and organizations showing our life that this matters that much, that it should be a priority, that it should be discussed and prioritized, that it's not just some you know, backwater issue, but something that is, you know, something you can get elected on. And we've got to show them that with whether it be the stick or the carrot, whatever approach you want to take in your guys' approach the carrot is a very effective approach and uh, man, I'm excited about it. So if people listening to this are also excited about it, can you can you walk me through, Benji where they can learn more about you guys, how they can get involved and uh and what to expect in the short term. 01:15:34 Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate that a lot. 01:15:36 Speaker 5: In me. I don't think that we meet the goals that you just outlined, are the goals that then I outlined with have nature is on partisan existing. This will be a movement for every every American and not just you know, a select few, And I think that that's it. I kind of wish I would have, you know, started this five or ten years ago or someone else had. But we you know, we're going to make this happen very quickly, and so we we need but we need people. We need Americans to be part of our movement. And so, you know, and each and visual is going to be critical for this because each part of the country has a different need in terms of action, like we talked about earlier, so to get involved. You know, we're going to keep building out our model over the next few months. But currently we've got our pledge signed online, the Nature's non Partisan Pledge. That's kind of the initial interest form of like you want to be involved with Nature as non partisans. We're building out the rest of the more robust tools that can be found on natures Nonpartisan dot org more on social media. If you search Nature as non Partisan on all the platforms and really just stay in touch because we're gonna have a lot coming out over the next three to six months and you're not gonna want to miss it. It will be really helpful if you care about this stuff, and no matter which side of the aisle you come at it from or what topic you come at it from, and you know, stick with us as we build I think the most effective environmental movement. 01:16:52 Speaker 4: We'll ever see. And you know it's going to take all of us to do that. 01:16:55 Speaker 5: It's not just going to be Ben or I or you Mark, It's going to be all of us, and collectively, we're gonna get this thing done. 01:17:00 Speaker 4: So we need people. 01:17:02 Speaker 5: We need individuals who care about this, who want to put partisan politics aside and actually find solutions. And we're starting now and we need you now. 01:17:12 Speaker 3: Well, I'm certainly appreciative of you guys doing this leading the charge. I'm excited about it, and I think a lot of other folks will be too, So thank. 01:17:21 Speaker 4: You, Thank you, Mark. Thanks Mark. 01:17:28 Speaker 3: All Right, and that's a wrap for our show today. Hope you guys enjoyed this one and left a little bit better informed on how we can move the ball forward for the natural resources and wildlife and wild places that we care about right now, how we can find some wins, how we can you know, encourage our elected officials to do the right thing, and how we can find those areas of shared values between you know, the left side and the right side and get something done. It's not always going to be perfect, it's not always going to be everything we want, but let's get some wins, let's find some silver linings. Let's make sure that we are getting good things done for the wild life, the wild places, and the wild experiences that so many of us care about. So until next time, thank you for being here, and stay wired tongue