00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the whitetail woods, presented by first Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. 00:00:19 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm joined by Remy Warren to discuss logistics and tactics for planning a backcountry mountain whitetail hunt. All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light, and today we're continuing our adventure series, taking a look at different ways to bring adventure into your white tail hunting season. And we've got a heck of an idea here today and a heck of a guest. 00:00:53 Speaker 3: As I just. 00:00:53 Speaker 2: Mentioned, joining me is Remy Warren. He's a guy that I'm sure many of you are familiar with. He's a long time mountain hunting guide, expert, television host, podcaster, social media extraordinary, one of the absolute best resources when it comes to planning Western or big wild adventures hunting trips. But what a lot of folks probably don't realize that he is also kind of a closet whitetail Guru. The guy really enjoys going on whitetail hunts every single year, but doing it in a pretty unique way different then definitely different than your standard whitetail hunts. He is doing this in the backcountry and in the mountains. He's doing backpacking trips for white tails. He's trekking in deep into the wilderness for white tails. He's chasing them in very different kinds of terrain, big mountains, rough country, and he's killing great deer, having a lot of fun, having a great experience, and coming back with very unique stories to tell. So if that sounds appealing to you, if you are intrigued with the idea of backpacking for white tails, or going into the back country or up into the mountains for a whitetail hunt, even if you're just going to do day trips and camping down by the road, this is the podcast for you. Remy Warren is going to share his secrets, his tactics, his plans for pulling off this kind of hunt. We talk through everything from how to determine a region that should have white tails out west, where to find these deer on the mountains in a big wild forested landscape. We talk through planning logistics around your camping. Should you backpack in, should you car camp? What kind of gear do you need for this kind of hunt? What kind of conditions should you be prepared for. We discuss a lot around tactics, the different specific styles of hunting. He uses, the places he searches out deer, how long, how long he stays in a given region before moving to the next spot, uses calls and rattles, you know what time of year is best for a backcountry or whitetail hunt in the mountains. 00:03:08 Speaker 3: All sorts of stuff like that. 00:03:09 Speaker 2: If you want to try something new this year, this is going to be a podcast you definitely want to listen to. Remy is a heck of a resource, an expert in so many ways, and someone who I think has a lot to teach each and every one of us. So, without any further ado, I think we should get to my chat with mister Remy Warren. All right with me now? Is Remy Warren? 00:03:38 Speaker 3: Welcome to the show? Remy? Yeah, man, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. 00:03:42 Speaker 2: And you are someone who have wanted to have on the show for a while now. It's kind of crazy. This thing's been around for twelve years or something, and this is our first podcast, but it's it's perfect timing because we're doing this series of whitetail adventure ideas. And I have seen your whitetail hunts on YouTube for quite a few years now, but they're very different than just about any other white tail hunt out there. 00:04:11 Speaker 3: I've heard you describe it as. 00:04:13 Speaker 2: Big mountain white tail hunting. What do you what do you mean when you say that, Maybe paint a picture for us of what that looks like and what's the appeal. 00:04:23 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I mean the way that I kind of like like to hunt white tails is essentially mountain hunting white tails, and I think that you know, white tails kind of get lumped into the category of river bottom bucks and it's like an out West like, you know, no disrespect to white tail hunters, but like they get a bad rapp right, Like mealder is king. But you know, one of the things for me is like mealder hunting is tough and it's it's like also getting tags can be difficult, and I actually, I mean do I love chasing white tails, but I kind of like to do it on my terms, Like I like to hunt them where nobody else is hunting them or you know, where you kind of have a little bit of like a different style hunt. Like I mean, I just know my strength and the weaknesses. Not great at sitting for a long time. Like I think that like there's places I could go and be successful, but like it's just not my preferred method or style. And so I kind of like key in on white tailed deer that are in this like mountainous habitat I call it big mountain white tails are like oftentimes I'll be hunting late season. I'm like I target them. Well, I'll target during the archery as well, but primarily during the rut. And like I might be hunting in an area where the mountains go. Let's say, like the valley floors three thousand feet the tops are like eight thousand feet, and I'm hunting them around sixty five hundred feet, So like it's a pretty good climb. And like they're in places and pockets that you know most people might not think about. They're death only you know a kind of different habits and habitat of like they live in the big timber, they live in these big mountains. They're surviving and breeding and like doing their thing in these like backcountry areas and in even like you mentioned some of the videos on them. This is like a hunt that I do every year in multiple different states or different places, and it's kind of like one of my personal hunts every year. Like I film very few of them, which is I think it's partially because like I do hunt a lot of them, like in wilderness areas too, so I don't share those those hunts at all unless I can find like some good spots that are outside of wilderness, and then I kind of I kind of actually just do it as like a side thought, like oh maybe I'll go, like, yeah, bring my phone and do some filming, you know. And like I've had my butt kicked sometimes and I've come out on top sometimes. Like it's just I don't know, I love it, Like it's there's a certain challenge about it, but like it's just fun hunt. 00:07:00 Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun. 00:07:02 Speaker 2: I heard you say once that when you get up in a tree, all you want to do is climb back. 00:07:08 Speaker 3: Out of it. 00:07:10 Speaker 2: But for so many whitetail hunters, it's the opposite, right. The average white tailed guy just loves being up there. Loves sitting in that kind of prototypical white tail hotspot and seeing everything come alive around him. To that guy or girl who's grown up doing that, what would be the pitch if you had to give him, like the elevator pitch. You've got thirty seconds with him to convince them to leave Iola, or leave Illinois, or leave Ohio and try a mountain hunt once. 00:07:38 Speaker 3: What's that quick pitch. 00:07:42 Speaker 4: That's I mean to be honest, like it you just don't know what's going to happen, and it's like a big adventure. I feel like the adventure aspect of it is like kind of the rush of it. And if you like getting up in a tree like twenty feet, well you can get three thousand feet up in the mountains. So it's like making views, you know, Like, yeah, I think the other the other pitch is like one of the things that I, you know, like having guided a lot of hunters and I. 00:08:14 Speaker 3: You know, used to do a lot of like this big. 00:08:17 Speaker 4: Country white tail guiding too in a different area, and the thing was like a lot of these guys would that would come on these hunts, would like hunt twenty acres, ten acres, five acres, one hundred acre whatever, you know what I mean, And I'm like, dude, we don't even like blink that where you're hunting half a million acres, Like you just can go anywhere, and it's like a very freeing experience to be like I'm white tail hunting and I can go wherever I want, Like it's pretty cool. 00:08:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can see the appeal to that for sure. What's the if the best thing is the adventure, freedom to roam, great views, lots of unexpected surprises, what's maybe the flip side? What would you say might be the downside or the worst side of this kind of thing. 00:09:00 Speaker 4: Kicks your butt, like mentally and physically the way that I do it, Like, you know, there's not you aren't gonna if you're used to sitting in a tree standing and seeing you know, hundreds of dear or whatever, it's not gonna happen. Like there's days where you will see no deer. There's days where you see dose and you're like, I'm on, I'm in the zone. And then there's days where you see like a buck or whatever. And then there's days where you shoot like one hundred and fifty hundred and sixty inch buck, so like it's it's all over the place, right, Like there's times where you don't even like come close to that age class, and then there's times where you like just turn up giants like it can happen and it's cool. 00:09:45 Speaker 2: What kind of expectation then, would you say it's fair to have? 00:09:49 Speaker 3: Like is it? 00:09:50 Speaker 2: And I know you've founded a bunch of different areas out west for white tails and it varies from place to place, but you know, coming into a hunt like this for someone new, should they expect like a safe assumption is like lower deer densities and that should be like how they go into it or what do you think they should be viewing as a success. 00:10:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like you expect lower deer densities. Finding like a mature type buck is like a pretty good feat in a lot of these areas. You have to realize too, like the densities are low, the tags are generally like over the counter kind of thing, and you know, like the the country's big. So like I've been on like I'm trying to think, you know, just past hunts and there's somewhere it was like it maybe hunted. I might be hunted seven days saw four bucks and ended up shooting a buck, you know, and it was like and you're like, you're you're pumped, and it's probably like a one type buck. You're like, that's a heck of a deer for that kind of hunt, Right, Sometimes the challenge just like finding buck and then other times too, like you see quite a few, like you kind of get in them and you've got your like your zone. But I think like the challenge is just like kind of finding deer in in some ways, like within that kind of terrain. 00:11:13 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's that's the thing is I feel like so many times when when you go from traditional whitetail country to a big mountain landscape out west, it the landscape is so different, the scale is so different. 00:11:28 Speaker 3: You know. 00:11:28 Speaker 2: It's one thing to go out there and be like, Okay, this is the kind of country that elk live in. And there's so much talk about, you know, the kind of things that elk gravitate towards, where the kinds of habitat that mule deer gravitate towards. But there's not a lot of discussion around where white tails fit into that mix, just because, like you said, they're kind of looked down on out there now as many people care about them. 00:11:48 Speaker 3: So how do you go about just. 00:11:50 Speaker 2: Narrowing in and drilling in on. 00:11:52 Speaker 3: What would be a productive region? 00:11:54 Speaker 2: How do you get to a spot where it's like, oh, yeah, this is whitetail country versus elk versus mule deer versus anything else. 00:12:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. 00:12:02 Speaker 4: So, like there's a couple of like habitat things that I key in on and I and I do. Like the one thing I could say is like, it takes time, and that's that's the hard part, is like you know, I'll go into it. You know, I've hunted a lot of new areas doing this, and it's like it takes time to kind of be like, well, where's the concentration a deer. I've utilized a lot of scouting in the past, like off season, and I try to time the hunt like for a certain kind of tactic. 00:12:35 Speaker 3: I guess, like it's the tactic. 00:12:37 Speaker 4: My tactic is, well, a couple of things, right, Like I could go into an area and I could go hunt that like traditional white tail country and there's probably white tails there. So if you have that kind of habit if you're in an area where there are white tails and it's like that traditional white tail type country. There's there's bucks and there's deer, maybe it's private whatever. Then the surrounding areas there's probably like a population of white tails that do not exist in that they exist in that mountain terrain. A couple of the features that like, you know, white tailers like they like that thicker stuff, those like in earlier season, those like north bass like a lot of cover, a lot of brush, a lot of other stuff. And let's say you've got one deer in five square miles, right, that's not that's not the conducive way to hunt that country. So what I do is I then find like that that habitat, you know, I do look for like these I kind of like focus on that top third of the mountain and then these like bench features that roll into south facing areas, and then within those zones, I look for areas with some kind of visibility clearing burn clear cut open grass like meadow something similar. You look for for like elk feeding areas. And I'm not necessarily utilizing that for like that being good habitat, but I'm utilizing it for the time of year that I'm hunting I'm catching, I'm like coning in on their behavior of deer that are cruising and then they're inevitably going to cross those openings and that allows me like that advantage. So it's deer that you can never find any other time of year. They're looking for does, and so I try to target pockets of doughs, areas where there's visibility, and then like you know, and then timing of the rut to catch deer that'll be moving because you have a higher likelihood of like actually spotting them. 00:14:41 Speaker 2: Is there any kind of Is there any kind of separation between where you're gonna find mule deer versus where you're gonna find white tailed deer? Because I know there's obviously some overlap, But when someone is looking and they're thinking, well, maybe I'm gonna hunt Montana, maybe Colorado, maybe Idaho, maybe Wyoming, maybe wherever, and they're looking at all this country and they're trying to think, all right, I can get a white tail tag. You know, how do I discern between where these two species might be? Is it gonna be one the same? And I'm just gonna have to go out there and make sure I'm I'm paying attention to what kind of deer's cruising across that opening. I'm just wondering, as they're trying to like narrow this down a little bit more, is there any way to discern between the two? 00:15:26 Speaker 4: There is, like some of it you can't discern necessarily like on a map all the time. But like the mule of your habitat is often more open, and the white tail habitat that I'm hunting is very closed in, like really thick. It's got more like not they won't find meal here in that country. But like the places that I often go where I'm like consistently successful getting white tails, like I heart. I mean, maybe I've seen a meal deer two, you know, but it's like it's it's like the white tails run the show there. And you will find places like that, you know, how to discern that can be a little difficult, And some of these places, like, dude, I have a state that I hunt in and I originally went there to hunt mule deer and like got into a pocket of white tails. It was like, shit, I don't think anybody's hunting white tails here. And then like have killed some of my best bucks in there because it was just like for some reason, it's you know, white tail habitat, Like there's good bottoms like you think of like traditional white tail habitat that you'd find anywhere like those those draws, those like crick bottoms, like willows, like all the like thicker type terrain like good brows, whereas like Mealer want more open, rocky like see and run kind of terrains where it's like you've got your white tail habitat like good brows for white tails, and like Mealer more in that sage a mahogany kind of like open stuff. 00:16:57 Speaker 3: And then also like the meal. 00:16:59 Speaker 4: Deer will gravitate toward those larger open areas, whereas like the the white tails are more in that like thick fringe. So I look for like pretty well timbered areas to be honest, like, and I wouldn't necessarily go target that from meal there. 00:17:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned that your tactics typically apply to that cruising phase. 00:17:21 Speaker 3: I think from a lot of. 00:17:22 Speaker 2: Folks I've talked to in the past, the white tail rot might be a little bit different out there by you guys than it is back here in the east. What's your window out there when you see that best running activity for white tails, but like date range. 00:17:34 Speaker 4: I like the first like first part of November, okay if I can, if I had like my druthers, but you know, I end up hunting like a lot later just because of like schedule ized, like I normally hunt like around Thanksgiving. And I still you'll still catch them, but you have to know where like the pockets, like where does live because they start to like get locked in. Once they've like once they've locked down with a dough, you're done, Like that's it. I like the cruising phase though, because I utilize I utilize calling a lot, like and maybe that's not something that everybody does everywhere, but like I rattle and I call, and so like that cruising phase, like bucks are really honed into that, and you can kind of catch those like big bucks moving because there's like I said, you're you're in an area. 00:18:23 Speaker 3: That maybe maybe you're hunting a canyon that's like. 00:18:25 Speaker 4: Ten miles long, and there's you know, I don't know, ten fifteen does in there whatever, and there's maybe a couple buck whatever I don't remembering twenty does I don't know, and there's maybe two or three bucks that are like in and out of that and they're just doing hot lapse like looking for does and so like that visual queue you know, I know work, but that sound can travel. And I do like a lot of rattling, a lot of calling, a lot of grunting, like dough bleeding, and I don't like no such thing as over calling it for me, like I hammer on those things. Like my strategy is get to places where I can glass, and I'm always calling, like rattling, calling right and calling, stopping moving. I kind of treat it like almost like a l hunt, like in a in a weird way, like and like people that have never done that, you know, they're like calling doesn't work, and like it works here because these dough like these bucks might not find a deer this year, and if they can hear one, they will come in hot and and it's fun, like that's it's it's a lot of fun, Like that's my favorite part about it. 00:19:31 Speaker 2: You say, like you're calling all the time, Like give me, like how many times in an hour. 00:19:36 Speaker 3: Are you calling constantly? 00:19:39 Speaker 4: Like if I'm sitting in glassing, like dude, I hit the rattle and then I do like grind, grunt, grunt, and like dough bleats, estris calls, you know, and then I'll sit for like a few minutes, five minutes whatever glass hit the calls again, whether it's a rattle or grunt or whatever, you know, because like they're probably moving and the deer that like I've sat in areas where you know, i'll sit, I'll go, I'll pick a spot. I'm like, okay, this is a guy like a little bit of an open and it's an area where I know, like I know i've seen does I know does live here? 00:20:16 Speaker 1: You know? 00:20:16 Speaker 4: If I had more patients, I probably, but i just like don't have a patien So I'm like, okay, let's pull them out. And sometimes it's just enough to get them to step out where you can see them. It's not necessarily like trying to get him to come in. The younger deer come in. But then again, like we've killed bucks that you know are just like big old bucks, right it up, ready to fight. So I'll do that, like I'll do a call sequence. Maybe I'm gonna glass this area for thirty minutes an hour, I don't know, maybe it's maybe longer, and I'll sit there, set up ready, like I've had deer walk into five yards, you know, and then I'll do that, Like I actually I bought climber stand because there's a couple of places that I'm like, dude, it would probably be convenient to like do that while I'm there, but I haven't utilized it yet, but uh yeah, So I'll do that, and then I'll like continue hiking, get to the next vantage hall and sometimes like it's just to like get those deer. 00:21:16 Speaker 3: To to do a different route. 00:21:19 Speaker 4: There's a lot of little tricks to this, like finding these bucks and getting these bucks to do what you want that you don't employ other places. Like one of the strategies that I use is like, if I know, let's say there's a bunch of deer tracks on this one heel and there's like one opening, I always get like a cross from it. Sometimes what I'll do is like I'll go over there if there's like a lot of snow, and I'll walk the edge of the the cover and then in the middle, I walk across, and then I walk back down to myself and I'll sit there and I'll watch that because those deer will those those deer will stay in the cover and then they hit your trail and then they'll follow that trail and they'll come out in the open. 00:22:01 Speaker 3: And they will shoot them. 00:22:03 Speaker 4: You know, Like there's a lot of crazy strategy that people don't utilize other places because it's just like the path of least resistance, like in the snow, you know. And that's like one of the strategies that I use, you know, like little tricks like that you probably don't use on white tails anywhere else. Yeah, a lot of calling, a lot of like weird stuff like that. 00:22:34 Speaker 2: What about wind when you're when you're setting up in these kind of glass slash calling ambush locations, are you thinking about wind in that. 00:22:45 Speaker 3: You know set up? How's that? 00:22:47 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm definitely like the wind's big. But you know, I think most of the time, like you're I'm across like I'm across canyon glassing. If I'm rifle hunting, archery hunting, like you'd have to, it's like a whole nother that's a whole another beast, right, And I do that, and we do that in September, and we're targeting like summer range bachelor bucks in a way like alpine bucks, which is a whole completely different game, but like late season mostly rifle hunting or like bow hunting, but like you know, utilizing the calling to bring them in. And yeah, it's it's mostly getting a cross canyon and then like generally your wind, like you're working into the wind as you're still hunting to like working into the wind. The whole game is built on working into the wind. And then if you know, the nice thing about having all that room is like if the wind's not great, you can move and so like continually like where I think the deer might be, just making sure that that wins right, but I kind of just start that hiking walking into the wind. And then yeah, I mean another strategy that like it utilized a lot that's very successful in this kind of country is like fresh snow and tracking deer, and I utilize that a lot, like you know, and sometimes you end up a long ways away, but that's how we how I actually kind of find good areas is like covering a lot of country in fresh snows, I mean track like it's a dead giveaway of like this is a this is a concentration of deer here. 00:24:19 Speaker 2: So so imagining that situation kind of going a little further. If you're if you're new to an area, I guess, and you don't know this spot yet there's snow on the ground. Is that maybe the starting point other than I'm sure scouting picking out likely areas, but then just cover a lot of ground fine tracks. Are you walking? Is it just walk ridge lines? Or are you walk walking draws or you know, how do you cover ground the best? When it comes to white tails? 00:24:45 Speaker 4: Mostly like yeah, like walking ridge lines, it was like walking in the bottom You'll you'll see deer, but it's loud and it's like hard to walk in often, but yeah, I'm looking for that sign. Sometimes I will walk the bottoms because I know that they reason they're in and you know, make moves, you know, so I'll walk those bottoms, I mean, and it it might be like a weird tactic as well, like there's a lot of stuff that probably doesn't line up with any other white tail anty. But like if there's an area that I'm like, this is a thick area that like looks like good white tail habitat, like you know you'll get you'll get into this like spot. Its like there's a little bench and there's like water in it, there's like tall grass, there's I don't know you know, like different kind of like you'll be in pines and it's got like willows or something else, you know, something like that. You're like, oh, this looks this looks like a good spot, and you see you start to see sign or whatever. Maybe you don't even see sign, Like I'll walk through that area and knowing like, yeah, I'm still hunting. But if I blow a deer out, it's actually not a bad thing because I kind of will we'll learn something about that area and those deer of like, okay, there's deer in here. 00:25:54 Speaker 3: I bumped them. 00:25:56 Speaker 4: A lot of these deer I have never seen people, so it's like cool, they're just like they run off and stop. And I have the call handy too, so like if I bump a deer, I just hit that call immediately and then and then knowing like okay, now I know that this is like a hole, this is an area where deer living. I can then kind of extrapolate other strategies of like getting up on the ridge glassing into here. But like step one, find the deer and that could take sometimes days sometimes immediately like where are these deer pockets at? And this step two is like strategizing and like actually employing tactics to like be able to kill the deer. So, like bumping deer is not bad. It's just because you got to find them, like and you just if you're worried about blowing something out all the time, you're never going to find them. 00:26:46 Speaker 2: To be honest, you said that some of these deer maybe never seen people. Yeah, that kind of ties into one of the things I've been curious about, which is, I know that white tails don't get nearly the attention out there by you as they do back here. By may not as much pressure for white tails, but there are a lot of guys out there chasing elk, chasing mule deer, et cetera. Do white tails simply exist in places where everybody else is ignoring and so you just don't have mule deer and elk hunters spending any time there. So does that lead to these deer just not being pressured or are there elk hunters and mule deer hunters all around too and everything's getting pressured? 00:27:26 Speaker 3: You know? 00:27:26 Speaker 4: It's it's it depends where you are. But a lot of the places it's like real bad el cabitat because it's so thick and be like it's hard to hunt. It's not like conducive for killing out there's not really any meal deer, and so there's not really a reason that people go to some of those places, and like a lot of people that might not even like realize that there's white tails there or really be like keen on diving in and hunting them. 00:27:54 Speaker 3: I guess. 00:27:55 Speaker 4: So that's one of the reasons that like I'll target those areas where I find that there's going to be fewer people, and I also try to find those seasons. Like the cool thing about a lot of white tail hunts, and this is probably across the country, but like there's kind of more liberal seasons when it comes to white tail hunting. So like the elk season might be a week, like the oliar season might be a week, the white tail season could be like a month, And so you can get into the mountains like when there's no one else hunting another animal. And oftentimes because there are a lot of like state wide general tags and stuff like that, all target areas where white tail seasons open, nothing else is, and you really limit like the amount of people in those particular areas. 00:28:37 Speaker 3: So it's like not a great area for that stuff. 00:28:39 Speaker 4: Anyways, there's white tails and there's no one else out there, and that makes a big difference. 00:28:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Do So I've done a little bit of elk hunting. I've you know, one of the big things I learned out there hunting elk in the mountains was that there was this kind of predictable pattern with elk going kind of up and down elevation based on time of day. 00:29:00 Speaker 3: What's going on? Do white tales do that out there? 00:29:02 Speaker 2: Do you see an up and down movement or do they kind of have an elevation they stick at and that you said, they've got a hole and they stay in that hole quote unquote. What have you seen from that kind of standpoint? 00:29:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, like the does don't often move much, and the bucks move an incredible amount. I've seen like over the years, like I've I've actually which is surprising because like it's hard to figure out their pattern in a way, and I just like I've randomly found the same deer in like certain areas. So they'll like they'll be up on the top over here. Like let's say it's a i don't know, like a valley. There's like say there's a valley with a crick in the bottom, and then there's a bunch of like a big area think of like I don't know, fifteen miles across or something like that, and then there's like multiple drainages, and then you've got like, you know, different habitat types, and you've got like pocketed doze up in here and near this clear cut and then pocket a doe whatever. And the bucks will be like up in that high kind of mid elevation and they'll cruise, they'll drop down, they'll cross valley, and then they'll kind of like they move kind of fairly quickly up into that other elevation and then they kind of cruise that you know, trying to hit every single pocket is like looking for dose. And I do think that they kind of make like in the wind circuits that are real big like I've seen. And this is just like random coincidence, I think, because I had a buddy hunting and I found like a a weird and it was like a deformed buck. It's like one horn and then the other horn was like really like, there's no way that there's two deer that look like this, And I saw it in one particular spot and later that day he saw it in another spot. And we kind of always assumed that like these deer kind of make these just based off like tracks and stuff. 00:30:53 Speaker 3: Where these these bucks would. 00:30:54 Speaker 4: Be going, and then you know it end up being like a long ways away and seeing that same buck, and like the other thing is like the where the does will be is a hundred like so consistent. Like once you find those dough pockets, they are very tight, like they don't they don't move a lot. They'll move down the mountain and up the mountain, but within like the same drainage, but the bucks will go like freaking miles, Like it would be cool to caller one of these kind of deer and just see the like hot laps that we call them that they do. But then they can be pretty consistent, like I've killed a deer a year after I saw it within like the same two days a year later, checking the same dough pockets. So like they have huge like the bucks have huge patterns and the does have like micro patterns. And then as the rut like as weather changes, where those doughs congregate within their zone changes. But I think like they couldn't survive any other way, like I just think that they're they're they're they would vanish off that landscape because I think that they just get too spread out. So the way that they survived is like the does hold and the bucks move, and that allows like the bucks to cover all that country and find the few doughs. But kind of knowing those pockets is key, and that's like the you can if you've got like a couple good live baits as I like to call them, like, you're you're gonna find bucks eventually. 00:32:21 Speaker 2: Well, what's kind of cool about what you're saying is it's actually exactly the same as hunting here, except like the scale is just increased ten x. You know, like right here you might have deer that live in a square mile. But you know what all the research has shown during the rut is that, you know, there's these dough hot spots. And people like to say that you can't pattern a buck during the rut, but actually collared studies out here have found that, you know, they have a handful of hot spots that they return to, they cycle back to over and over again during the rut looking for those does, and it's just happening in a much tighter area because these deer don't need to travel very far because there's food, cover, security, and dose, you know, every one hundred acres here, while with you same thing, you're just stretching it out to ten square miles maybe you're a ten mile long canyon. So it's it's interesting how deer in certain ways deer. 00:33:15 Speaker 3: Deer are deer. 00:33:16 Speaker 2: Just the habitat is a little bit different, and I imagine there's you know, I'm imagining there's pinch points and funnels out there by you just like here, it just looked different, right, I'm sure like saddles and stuff are the probably the name of the game for you on that kind of thing. 00:33:29 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like saddles are big, like those like benches and then the benches above like multiple draws places where the wind kind of comes up from, like the dough pockets. Yeah, Like I've got a couple of places that it's thick, and it's like we I find a lot of like my intel based off of like when it snows, and then you just have to remember like these these these places that you find because you can kind of like learn a lot from following these deer, which is a cool thing about this kind of thing is you can follow deer and see what they do. I mean, there's been a lot. Two years ago I found I was hunting there. It was like snowing all night, stopped right at sun sun up, you know, cut a fresh track followed it. I think I hiked like seven or eight miles, but I knew like where a dough pocket was and that buck was going right to it, and so like through pass like being like okay, I bet you he's bedded up here. And sure enough, Like I was with a buddy and he's like, dude, we've been hiking for seven miles on it, and I was like, I know he's gonna be on this bench, like this is where they bed because I've done this like same route, like the same path, the same thing like years before, and like it's it's cool to see where it's like, okay, they're how they move. It's like they run the ridges they you know then like those those shorter bowls and stuff. They like they kind of crossed through that, but you know it's like okay, it's because the wind you know, falls that way or whatever. And then they get into these pockets where it's like okay, this ridge this little bump is a little thicker, he's going to betted up here. And you know, it's like just a larger scale, but they have very specific habits that are I'm sure like universal. 00:35:09 Speaker 3: To white tails. 00:35:10 Speaker 4: It's just like a different elevation game doing it. 00:35:13 Speaker 1: You know. 00:35:15 Speaker 2: So you said that you like to find advantage. Call call call, move to another vantage, call call call. 00:35:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:35:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you said like thirty minutes to an hour. But I just want to make sure, like what's your typical amount of time you'll give a spot, and like how much time will you give a drainage maybe, Like it sounds like maybe you'll move a couple of times within a drainage, But how often where you move to a totally new. 00:35:38 Speaker 3: Area and try something brand new? Oh a lot. 00:35:42 Speaker 4: So it's like as I get more information about an area, that depends on how long I'm going to stay or commit to it. Like there's some places where I go, okay, like I know the time of year, like I've planted this certain spot before. I know like this is the you know, eventually a big Buck's going to come through here and I'm might sit there all day. And then there's places where it's like I don't know the area. I'm trying to find that pocket, that right pocket, and I might move constantly, you know, when I get into a place where I'm like, oh, this is buckier, like when you get to those like oh this is. 00:36:16 Speaker 3: A travel this is a corridor. 00:36:18 Speaker 4: Like this has everything I need, Like it's got good habitat on both sides. Here's a good pinch point. I might sit there for a lot longer until I kind of feel like I've covered the area. And for me, mostly it's like, to be honest, sometimes it's like I'm cold and bored. 00:36:34 Speaker 3: Now I'm gonna walk and looks not a great strategy, but it is. Yeah, it's like a you know, you just don't know. 00:36:40 Speaker 4: Like some days, I'm like I'm gonna sit and I've got buddies that like they've got they'll bring those like heat your body suit things and they'll go like they've got the patience to be like, Okay, we found a good spot. 00:36:51 Speaker 3: I'm gonna sit it. 00:36:52 Speaker 4: I'm like, good on you, dude, And they kill good bucks that way, and I'm like, well, I'm gonna go bust through here and try to do the same thing. But you know, I'm successful doing it. Like so I think both people, but you know, it just depends to like if if I'm in an area and I'm like calling and I'm getting like good response or seeing dos, like if I see deer, if I if I'm in an area that I know hows does it's the right time of year, like okay, it's really thick, and I'm like, okay, I'm seeing does every once in a while. Man, I might sit there until I feel like a buck that's cruising would you. 00:37:27 Speaker 3: Know, have popped out? 00:37:28 Speaker 4: And then I'll move if I'm not seeing anything, if I don't have sign if I'm like, I'll just keep moving until I find the deer though, because like, you really need to focus on where deer are, otherwise you're just gonna spend your like, spend all your time wasted where there's no deer. 00:37:43 Speaker 3: Yeah that makes that make like, Yeah. 00:37:46 Speaker 2: Now what about the scenario where you're sitting there and you keep seeing does, but a whole day goes by, you don't see a buck. You got back out there the next day seeing a bunch of doughs, still don't see a buck? 00:37:57 Speaker 3: Will you? 00:37:58 Speaker 2: Will you stick to a place that you know has does even if you're not seeing it a shooter buck yet, just because you know eventually one will cruise through or is there you have to see antlers to stick around. 00:38:09 Speaker 4: I think I have to see the right kind of does. So one of the things that like I just I disregard pretty much all does with fawns. They are like they doesn't from what I've found, Like you'll find like those nursery pockets where it's like a bunch of does with fawns in that like cruising phase and it doesn't hold the bus. But then you find those like Fawndless does, and they tend to stick around those areas more. Maybe it's like they're I'm gonna come in de Striss sooner, I'm not sure, but like it depends on the stage of the rut too later in the season, and then I will focus on those like pockets with more doze and fawns. But if I'm in an area where I think like they're they're cruising, it's early in the season, and like I see doze but no bucks, I would probably continue to use that time to like find more pockets and then I check pocket to pocket to pocket. So like as those bucks are making circuits. I'm kind of making circuits as well, because like what I will find as well is like once I hit where bucks are, you're gonna find other bucks. Because what will happen is like whether this snow or not, it doesn't matter, like those bucks smell those bucks, and then they like get on those trails and then they follow those same routes. So like, once you've got the zone, then I focus in. Like if I got an area where it's like, oh, there was a there's some does and I've seen bucks, there's gonna be more bucks. If I just find a pocket with does and like no bucks, then sometimes until later on there might not be any. 00:39:44 Speaker 3: With the. 00:39:46 Speaker 2: Okay, we're in this scenario, we're seeing doz, we've seen some bucks come through, you're shifting around doing the calling. What about like the specific sequences of call. You said you're grunning a lot, you're rattling a lot. What does that actually look like? Like what's your what kind of grunning do you do? How long of a sequence? Same thing for rattling? I'm curious about the details there. 00:40:10 Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I'm trying to think, like so often I probably start out with like grint, grint, grin, grint, grint, and then rattle and then heat or or like sometimes I'll start off with like a dobe eat like something where if there's something close by, it might just draw them out before I go crash antlers. Yeah, you know, because sometimes like when I rattle to I'm not really rattling for the small bucks, but they still often are the most like interested in it no matter. 00:40:45 Speaker 3: What you do. 00:40:47 Speaker 4: But uh yeah, so it would be like I don't know, maybe I'll like grunt fifteen ten times fifteen times now, yeah, and then I probably I probably do it a few times. And then I always throw. 00:41:01 Speaker 2: In like a hard to do you know what I mean, not bad. 00:41:08 Speaker 3: Okay, And then I'll probably do a couple of those and wait and then it's like I use these. 00:41:16 Speaker 4: I've used everything, but there there's like a pack rack or something like it's like a two little thing I found like all the plastic crap though when it gets cold, like a lot of times are real cold, and that's probably why I don't sit too long, but like they break when it gets cold. 00:41:32 Speaker 3: But I'll use that like it. 00:41:33 Speaker 4: Seems like it carries good noise, something that you like. I try to also find like I do the same thing I do with el hunting with bugling, where your sound travels. So if I got an area where I can hear it echoing across the canyon, I know that like I'm covering the area more. If I if it's like soaked up by vegetation, then I know that I have to sit longer. So depending on those areas, when I can hear it like broadcasting across there, I know that it's traveling and I know that it's going to be more receptive, and I kind of feel like if anything's within earshot, I often see them within that like fifteen minute range, you know, like the like it does depend on the timing of the rut and how like deer receptive they've been. That's I'll do that like grunt, grunt, bleat, blead, rattle, rattle for mm hmm, like bucks fighting for a while, you know, Like I don't know, like it's hard the I for minutes. Yeah, yeah, you know, it just depends, like you know, it'd be like I'll hit it like back and forth, you know, Like like I try to kind of think of like two deer fighting and like how long are they doing this for? 00:42:45 Speaker 3: Wait? 00:42:45 Speaker 4: Do it again, because the strategy isn't like necessarily to be like a realistic deer, is to just catch the attention of something that's like looking for any deer. And so I'll do that. Then I'll go back to grunting, probably like three minutes later, I'll do another set of calling wait again three to five minutes and then as I kind of like get closer to maybe potentially leaving, like it depends on like how that sounds traveling too, Like if the rattling is traveling, no, well, I'll do a lot more rattling and the other thing that I've noticed too, for like I mean, on these hunts, I'm actually like targeting pretty mature deer, and so I do like if I bring antlers, they're often like heavy. I actually use like meal their antlers a lot. On that big initial smack, like I do that rout loud like crash smack, Like I want it to be loud, and I want it to be fairly aggressive. I don't kind of like mediocre do it like I getn't get after it because that's the one like if you want the big bucks to run in, it needs to sound pretty pretty heavy. 00:43:57 Speaker 3: Yeah, And then like so yeah, I guess it's say, like I don't. 00:44:01 Speaker 4: Know time wise, like you know, grunting for a minute, rattling, and then sometimes I'll set a time or something like, you know, three to five minutes and then hit it again something like that. 00:44:23 Speaker 2: So so you said you're you know, trying to target mature bucks. 00:44:27 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:44:28 Speaker 2: One of the things you hear about so much when hunting out west, especially if you're trying to get a you know, mature mule deer elk or really any elk, is you got to get way off the road, get to these hard to reach places. 00:44:38 Speaker 3: Right? 00:44:39 Speaker 2: Does that apply to white tails out there? Or can you you know, are you trekking in really deep to find these deer spots or are you doing this close to a car camp? 00:44:49 Speaker 3: You know what's that look like? Oh? It just depends to be honest. 00:44:52 Speaker 4: Like the thing is like they do move a lot, and also like that density of timber and the low density of deer, you could kill these deer anywhere. Like there's places that I've hunted and you're literally like walking, you know, like moving spots, vehicle, getting out, doing some calling, doing some glassing whatever, moving And there's other places where it's like I'll be in a wilderness situation and like shit, you can backpack on it, you know, like covering country and keep everything on your back and like following try especially if there's like snow, you might I may be ten miles away from here tonight, I'm just gonna camp where I'm at and find these areas. So it just depends, like sometimes honestly, like I make my hunt plan based on the weather too, because like it'll be twenty below and you're just like it's nice to go back to your camp. And then so like when I'm not packing in, you probably do more hiking than when you're packing in, to be honest, Like you might hike in five miles like and then hike back out five miles or something like that. Or more like my wife's first white tail buck, we didn't camp because it was like terribly cold, but like we climbed I think it was like we did I don't know, forty almost five thousand feet of elevation game that day to kill her buck, like you know what I mean, Like that's gnarly, like in the Unique Doe and like, yeah, dude, we spotted the buck like probably three miles away and well, we spotted a deer walking across the top of this opening and then went up there. 00:46:30 Speaker 3: It was a dough and like that's I know this zone. Let's get in there. Got in there. 00:46:36 Speaker 4: We're like laying down and watching that trail where that dough was, and sure enough a buck comes out of the timber and like kind of that same thing where I's stling, Like they follow those trails pretty good. So if you see where ones crossed, like it's a good indication that so you know, it's like snowing. And we just had climbed like just that last climb was three thousand feet not including to like get into there, and it was like it was awesome, Like it was a tiny little it was our first year. I think it was our first it was our first white tail, and so like I don't know where I'm going with that, but like, uh, you it can be it can be as far and deep as you want, or it could be somewhere it's just like you know, easy to access to it, Like it doesn't have to be way back there. But I mean, like my theory is this, like I like to like all I'm not I don't know, I don't know the best way to say it, Like I kind of hunt for the area in some ways, but also like I really like if I've got the time, like to look for good bucks, and like I consider a good buck like like a like a good mountain buck, like a six year old one thirty to one forty and then like we'll we'll get into those like one fifty plus year and and to be honest, like dude, that you think about a one fifty type year that lives in the mountains has never seen agriculture, Like that's a hell of a deer, and like they do exist, like but you have to be in an area where there's like decent genetics, but they just get age right like anywhere, like think about you know anything. It's like that's why targeting those places where there's fewer people, fewer deer, you kind of have that like higher likelihood of finding that that next level buck. And like i'd say, every year I find one buck within that like big rate like the one forty plus range. Oftentimes I screw it up or someone I'm with is screwed it up, you know, Like I take a lot of people and like you, I've seen some giant year get missed or something stupid happen. But yeah, it's like one of those things where you know, I try to target those deer because that's fun for me. And then and sometimes too it's like, well this year I haven't like it's been struggling. I find like a one to twenty type buck and it's like it's a heck of a deer for this particular unit for this like whatever's going on where I'm at, Like I'm way deep, like didn't even know there was deer back here, found this cool spot, and like I turned up a good deer. So I think, like, but targeting those bigger deer, I have to go to those places where I'm like, that's that potential's there. 00:49:24 Speaker 3: I guess that makes sense. 00:49:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I love the I love two things about this. I like the idea of finding that old deer that just isn't around people. That's so unique, at least in the white tail world, right, I mean, most of the white tails that we hunt are deer that are around people all the time. So the idea of going somewhere where you're chasing a deer that maybe has never seen a person or very rarely with that, there's something special about that, but then also just the the the allure of being able to if you want to backpack in for a white tail, that's just so different. Yeah, that seems like a really cool twist on the traditional thing when you're doing that. I know you said you've done both, but when you do the packing in to whitetail hunt, can you walk me through a little bit of how the logistics might be different. Like one thing right at the gate I'd be curious about would be, you know, where should you set up your camp in relation to where you're gonna hunt? Like that was always a thing we're thinking about when we were elk hunting, But I don't know how much that would be different when you're white tail hunting. How do you think about that? And then any other logistics when it comes to you know, packing in and operating out of the back country. 00:50:37 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I mean two times a year, you'd do it like a September time frame, much more pleasant, like gets nice and places that you know do that. It's actually more prone to do it early season because you're hunting the deer before they drop. Like I guess think about like mountain bucks. The reason I call mountain bucks because they like live and die on the mountain, and they do these like seasonal things of like they're up at that top third of the mountain. Like I've found white tails up at ten thousand feet in the summertime, we're like eighty five hundred feet just in like the little summer range. And then I've also found them down in the bottoms of three thousand feet. But most of time I'm like targeting that like higher maybe not like out like might not be above timberline, but like that higher top third in the mountain, and it's conducive to like camping and everything. Then and then there's like late season, which is that November time frame, and mountains in November it can get super cold and like unpredictable weather. And it's not like we don't backpack hunt elk at the same time, So like, you know, late season, you just have so much more gear. You've got I bring like a four season tent, you know, zero sub zero degree sleeping bag, lyner, probably a lot of handwarmers, like dude, just freaking ten pounds of warmers, warmers, all of it, you know, stove generally like just melting snow for the water. 00:52:06 Speaker 3: That time you're. 00:52:09 Speaker 4: And then uh, Like for camping, I don't really get too bogged down in it. Like it depends on what's on the ground. Like if there's snow on the ground, I'm probably like finding tracks, finding pockets, and then I've got other pockets that i want to like check. But I'm generally like getting into an area that's hard to get into and then hunting that air. Like like I said, if I'm day hunting, I'm covering probably more ground than if I'm backcountry hunting. But I often it depends, like I might set up a base camp, Like let's say there's an opening, whether it's burn or whatever that I'm hunting, Like i piked in four or five miles and I've like got a camp. I just set it like downwind off kind of away from where I think that I'm gonna be hunting, and I'll be probably fairly close to like pop up on a glassing ridge and then and then glass that, and in those scenarios often I'm actually really like sitting and watching those areas a lot longer than I might be if I'm moving all over, because like once you're invested into a zone, you kind of have to be a little more careful about how you hunt it. If you're going different places like where you can access from day hunting, you aren't as careful because you can go somewhere else. When you've like pop committed to a certain canyon, you know, you kind of go in with that, like I don't I don't get too bogged down, and like where I'm camping to Bedred percent like I can't fairly close to where I'm at, but where it's like obviously not gonna spook the deer that I'm thinking, If that makes sense. Yeah, Yeah, we used to, like my buddy used to like pack in a like a ground blind and like just like long ways and like sit in it, you know, in a heater, like just sitting. I think it was like his tent and his grind blind and you would just sit and watch and he'd like the guy had killed some giant bucks over the years. Yeah, but uh, for the most part, you're just like, you know, kind of camping near you're going to go. And then the way that I like to do it, if I had my druthers, like often I'll like if I'm not seeing what i want, then it's like everything's on my back, I'm hopefully cutting tracks going to a new spot. Maybe I'll hunt with all that stuff on my back until I get to a spot where this is where I'm gonna hunt. Or I kill a deer and then camp there, or find deer and then relocate and then like reset up camp. But it depends on the weather. Like the weather plays a huge factory in like the logistical aspects of it. 00:54:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, for the sake of you know, let's let's assume someone's hearing this and they have not done an elk hunt before, They've not mulder hunter, they've they've never done a back country hunt. Give me the quick rundown on what somebody should be thinking about if they're going to try to pick a pack for this, just quick, like a white tail back country white tail hunt, going to backpack in given what you just describe, time of year, uh kind of factors, what should they be looking for when choosing that super important piece of kid? 00:55:02 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you want a large A large pack I go with like the I use this stone glacier, and I like internal frame. I would say like a minimum of like a sixty five hundred cubic inches Like yeah, I mean I've got some pictures because it's like there's a place where I kill the buck. It's like a pretty good buck a few years back, and you got to realize, like you've got all your crap, plus you've got a buck, and to be one hundred percent honest, like probably where you're killing these bucks, there's a ton of deadfall, and like it's not somewhere you like when you're there, you're like I got here, but you don't want to make two trips, and so like an entire boned out dear, plus all your gear gets like a lot of stuff and you just want to get it out. So I go with like where I can have my gear and like late season year takes up so much room, So I do that, and then some kind of like even think about like an external like later something where you can stuff extra gear and like expand that pack is key. Like I'll bring like a load shelf kind of thing where I can like pull the bag away from the load shelf, put my gear in that or the meat in that, and like really. 00:56:16 Speaker 3: Expand it. So you so you've got a lot of room. 00:56:18 Speaker 4: I wouldn't go on like a late season back country hunt with like a light pack, and even when I'm day hunting, I generally want to be able to like carry the whole dear plus like you've got extra gear, You've got extra clothes, you're carrying something to rattle with, you got like spotting scope, tripod. Still sometimes I'll just use Actually one of the things that I have kind of switched to is I'll do like I don't know if you use Vortech stuff, but they've got like that I called the baby razor, like the small spotterer. Yeah, And then I'll do like big binos, depend like depending on the country, because I might need to like verify something, but I try to keep like the pack light, so I might just even have like binos on my chest and then like a pair of eighteens or like eighteen power binoculars in my in my backpack so I can cover those open areas and still get like a good gauge on the bucks and the dyear round, and like kind of keep it a little bit lighter and faster. 00:57:16 Speaker 2: You said a little bit of gil that you're usually using a four season tenth, But do you ever do like the hot tent style like TPE and a little ultra light you know, titanium stove or anything like that for these late season hunts. 00:57:27 Speaker 4: Probably should, but I don't, like, I don't know, it's just like another thing. I don't know why. Uh, you know a lot of people have asked that, and I've like been on hunts with him, Like, yeah, these are great. I'm not opposed to it, you know, I've used them before. But honestly, like I just kind of like, I just like keeping it simple. I don't know, like I just it's just nice to have. 00:57:50 Speaker 3: Like I know. 00:57:51 Speaker 4: The other thing too, is like I've been in some like real harsh like you get a lot of harsh winds or snow and stuff, and I don't know, the hot tent thing just seems like a kind of an extra pain in the butt sometimes. I don't know that maybe it's just maybe one day I'll switch to it. 00:58:07 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:58:07 Speaker 4: I'm not I'm like back and forth on that kind of stuff. But I just kind of you just go with what you've always done. I think in some ways, you know, so what's. 00:58:15 Speaker 2: So so that said that, what's one thing that it like, what's a weird thing that is worth taking? Like if if you like to stick with it what you usually do and you don't want to bring extra stuff. There's got to be one thing that most people don't think of that you always have to have with you on a hunt like this that either makes life a little easier, a little bit more comfortable. 00:58:35 Speaker 3: Or just comes in hand. Yeah, what would that be. I always have a glassing pad, like something to sit on. 00:58:41 Speaker 4: Yeah, it is huge because like like I said, I'm not great at sitting forever. And you get pretty cold too, because like you're you're moving, you're sweating, you're going up these mountains. That's the other factor of like it's hard to it's hard to sit. So I do I bring like something to sit on because there's often like there's very few times that have killed white tails where there's not snow on the ground, So there's often snow and then you know like that sitting and waiting and rattling and calling, like it's nice to sit on something. I also like puffer pants, and you know, like a real warm layer is key. And then like I said, the handwarmers, like I'll throw in toe warmers. My feet don't get hot, so some people are feed are always hot, but I'll throw those in late season. And then I always have like body warmer handwarmer things, and I use those as my sleeping bag too, like religiously, so I'll bring like enough where it's like I got two per day or something. 00:59:36 Speaker 3: I don't mind carrying the extra weight of those. 00:59:39 Speaker 2: So, so you mentioned puffer pants, What's what's the. 00:59:44 Speaker 3: We both wear? First light? 00:59:45 Speaker 2: Can you walk me through the basic kit that works best for you for this kind of hunt because it would seem kind of tricky because you've got very high exertion. 00:59:54 Speaker 3: For parts of these hunts and then a. 00:59:56 Speaker 2: Lot of sit and wait, what's what's ended up on you these trips. 01:00:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, So most of the time I'm wearing like more of a late season pant. That's it's just like like aligned threeh eight pant I've been using a lot lately, so I'll use that, and like I actually probably won't have thermals underneath because I like to be able to just dump the heat. Depends on how cold it is, Like if it's sub zero, I'll probably have thermals and those on in a walk and be fine. But I'll often have like the lined pant thermals so I can dump the heat. I'll have like the puffer pants from when I stop, and I generally keep those super accessible, but like. 01:00:38 Speaker 3: In a waterproof bag or something like that depends. 01:00:42 Speaker 4: And then I always have my rain gear as well as like an added element of protection and warmth. And then on my top I'm probably wearing like a wick or not, like a kiln hoodie. And then you know, it depends, like I've been using that unk foundry jack it a lot too, But like when I'm hiking, even if it's cold, I probably don't even have a jacket on. I'm just like, you know, it depends like how cold it is. Sometimes I've got that and I've just got everything opened up. The key is don't sweat like I mean you will sweat, but like you want it to evaporate, like you don't get your stuff wet. And then I'll have I don't know, like a depends like either this right now like a brooks down or like a chamber, like a bigger down, or like there's what's the new on the white cloud? 01:01:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you prob use. 01:01:32 Speaker 4: That one more because a little bit lighter and a little more warm their weight ratio. But yeah, and so it's like that's my I'm sitting down. I'm glass and I'm in camp. I'm sleeping in it. Whatever it is. Yeah, another little fun thing that I do. Take on those late season back country instans, those like slippers there's like down. 01:01:53 Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people say they like that. 01:01:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll put I mean, I'll put toe warmers in and then put those in and in my like I've done last couple of years. I've probably camped thirty days and temperatures like zero to negative twenty. 01:02:10 Speaker 3: It's dude, it's freaking cold. Like you. 01:02:15 Speaker 4: Zip your you're like this much of your face is out, like everything's frozen around you. And you gotta remember to vent your tent because otherwise you just get like ice condensation in there. 01:02:24 Speaker 3: Like is it worth it? But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, Like that's why it's nice. 01:02:31 Speaker 4: Like if you can, you know, you like pull a trailer or you know, have like a base camp or even just like sleeping in your truck where you can have like more warm stuff. 01:02:40 Speaker 3: But honestly, like it's not that bad. Like you you kind of warm. 01:02:43 Speaker 4: Up in your tent and you find little tricks like all like boil water, put it in my water bottle, you know, throat my tent or my sleeping bag. The handwarmer trick is pretty solid. I don't know, like different stuff, you know, like sometimes like it's real cold, I'll use my stove, but I'll actually bring like a little carbon monoxide thing too, because I know people have had problems with that, so I'll have a little thing. I won't run it, but i'll like, you know, just to get the chill off a little bit, crack it in there and make sure it's spent it and then turn it off and set the canister outside. 01:03:19 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:03:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it sounds with the conditions that can be out there, it can sound obviously brutal. But at the same time, there's also a certain appeal to the whole thing, a little bit of that suffer fest type two fun can sometimes be special in its own way. So this whole thing is super intriguing to me, just taking something that I know I love. But sometimes you can fall into a rut, I think with whitetail hunting, sometimes it can become at least traditionally, how white tail hunting isn't what I do A lot of time is kind of the same old, same old that for a while, and I love it. 01:03:55 Speaker 3: I love it. But the idea of. 01:03:57 Speaker 2: Taking this loved thing in a a very familiar setting and tossing it into a very unfamiliar instead of circumstances is so appealing. To be able to have that adventure while also chasing the critter that you know fascinates you more than anything else. I mean, that's a super super interesting idea. So this is this is high on my to do list, maybe maybe even this year. 01:04:22 Speaker 3: So uh sweet, yeah, yeah, Well I think you'll love it. 01:04:25 Speaker 4: Like and I think guys that like hunt a lot of white tails, you just feel like it's probably the same, right, Like you can you could draw so many similarities. It's just like a very large scale. And then I also think like in a way you can get away with a little bit more in some in some aspects like with this, like you just have to know, like if you've got a smaller area that you cover, right like exponentially increase that. Not like you're gonna have to cover a lot of ground to kind of like make up for that that density kind of thing. But man, you can get in areas and like see a lot a deer and have like some phenomenal hunts and and you can honestly find some deer that are like great box like you know, for wherever you know there's like really good opportunity too. 01:05:12 Speaker 3: Yeah sounds like, well, I know that. 01:05:14 Speaker 2: I know you've got a hard stop here, so I want to be respectful of your time. But but real quick, Remy, can you give folks listening a rundown of of where they can see some of your films and shows connect with you, get your content? Like where should they what should they be checking out? 01:05:29 Speaker 3: Yeah? 01:05:29 Speaker 4: For sure, man, they you know at Remy Warren at pretty much any social media R E M I W A R R E N. And then I've got my YouTube channel where you're released. You know, quite a few videos now on that Remy Warren YouTube channel. And then I've got my podcast Live Wild podcasts pretty much everywhere podcasts are available. 01:05:49 Speaker 3: So awesome. 01:05:51 Speaker 2: Man, you're doing great stuff. You've been doing great stuff for a long time and a lot of us have have benefited from it. So thank you for all that, and thanks for this been a lot of fun. 01:06:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate it, man, Thanks for having me on. 01:06:02 Speaker 2: It's always yeah, hopefully picking your brain about maybe Elkermeal there next as I continue to expand the boundaries and borders of of what we do here. 01:06:13 Speaker 3: Perfect. Yeah, we'll keep me posted. 01:06:15 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you need any any uh pointers in the right direction for the old backcountry white. 01:06:20 Speaker 3: Tails, I definitely will take you up on that. 01:06:23 Speaker 4: Sure, I'll be interested to hear you got to connect with me afterwards, and I want to hear kind of your recap of of what you thought and like, yeah, you know, don't be afraid to use some like crazy tactics because you know, do a lot of calling. If you think you're overcalling, just keep calling. You'll be fine, Like you aren't going to scare them away. 01:06:42 Speaker 2: I love like the sense of freedom that gives me to just like be crazy on the horns and make a lot of racket like that sounds a lot of fun. 01:06:49 Speaker 3: So yeah, that's what I like. 01:06:50 Speaker 4: Tell me about it, like make some noise, like it's not what's going to happen, like just you probably aren't going to spook them out, right, so you're either going to call them in or not. New It's like it's not like you're dedicated at one spot. So it's fun. 01:07:03 Speaker 3: I think you'll enjoy it, all right, I'm in for it. Cool, all right, and that's a wrap. 01:07:12 Speaker 2: I hope you guys enjoyed that one as much as I did. I appreciate you being here with me. I hope that these last couple podcasts have given you something new to think about, something new, to put a pep in your step this year and try something different. Whitetail hunting is so rich and so diverse if we're willing to step outside of the usual. There's nothing wrong with the usual. I love going on hunting on the back Ford it just as much as the next guy. But sometimes you need to change a pace. Sometimes you need to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. That's what this series is all about, and that's what our podcast today was all about, and I hope it's something you will give some thought. So until next time, thank you all for being here, and stay wired. 01:08:00 Speaker 4: A hon