00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the modern white tail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this week on the show, I'm joined by the one and only Bill Winky to dive into how his approach to hunting the white tail rut has evolved in recent years. All right, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. Today, We've got a good one, ladies and gentlemen. We're talking the white tail rut and I'm joined by Bill Winky. Most of you, I would assume know who Bill Winky is. He was the founder and the host of Midwest white Tail, a little show that has been on the air for many a year now wildly successful. Um. Bill has made a living hunting, talking about, writing about filming big white tailed deer and teaching folks how to hunt them. And he's recently now kind of taking a step away from it. He's gotten away from the media side of things, and he's hunting new country in new ways, and all of that I think has led him, um kind of having a refreshed, new perspective on some certain things. And so what I wanted to do was dive in with Bill on a his general approach to the White Tail Rut. Everything from how he believes the rut evolves over the course of the year, to his favorite stand sites, to how he thinks about wind and access and exit and uh, different phases of the rut, how to kill deer right now in late October, all that kind of stuff. We we break down a lot of the essentials that you need to know to hunt this upcoming time of the year. But I also wanted to dive into how things have changed for him, how he views things differently maybe now than he used to, what he does differently now than he used to. There's some really interesting stuff in here that I think might surprise you, and I think will represent a new view on hunting the ruck compared to maybe some things you've heard from Bill in the past. So I'm excited for you to get to hear that, and I'm also excited just in general for what we've got ahead of us, because this is it, guys. This is what we've dreamed of for eleven months or however long it's been since the last time you saw running action. It's here. When this podcast comes out will be October twenty eight, which for most parts of the country is the kickoff. I mean, it's it's happening. I'm hoping you're spending a lot of time in the tree right now in the weeks to come. Um, I've had a crazy few weeks. I've got a crazy few weeks ahead of me. Um. I guess you know, since I don't get to do as many of those long BS sessions with Dan like we use two back in the early years, I haven't got to update all of you on what's actually happening in my personal hunting life. Let me give you a little uh teaser, I suppose on some of those things, because if you follow me on Instagram, you know what's going on. It's at wired to hunt, um. But if not, you might be in the dark. And it's worth noting there has been a lot going on, and I will be doing full podcasts on some of these trips that I've been going on, but I'm not going to run those until later in the year. I want to make sure we spend the hunting season period giving you guys helpful information, stuff that's gonna help you hunt. Right now, I don't think maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think you want to hear me John about a story when you're just trying to figure out how to kill a deer tomorrow or next week. So I want to try to stay focused on that how to stuff now and then once we get past the at least the heart of this season, then I'll feel you, guys and on all the details of how these trips went. But a couple headliners, I guess Number one, you might have heard that I was hunting in wash Shington, d C. We're hunting the suburbs of d C actually over in Virginia back in early October, and this is part of that series that I described. I think it was last week or two weeks ago I described, UM this new project I'm undertaking in which we're, you know, traveling the country, meeting with different experts in whitetail hunting with with very unique styles and approaches and then very different unique regions. And I'm going in there and I'm spending a day, day and a half with each of these people to learn about how they do what they do, following them around the woods, UM, watching how they approach hunting, talking through with their strategy, talking through the types of areas they look for, just basically trying to do a podcast but in person, breaking down everything they do. And then I'm tasked with trying to hunt in this area, using what I learned from them, and trying to get a deer killed. So that first trip was d C. I was with Taylor Chamberlain, the urban bowman. He's specialized in killing these deer in the suburbs, and I will tell you that was an incredibly challenging hunt. It was very tricky because you know, I had to spend that day in a half of Taylor trying to learn about what he does, and then I had to actually go out and try to get permission myself. So I went and knocked on doors on dozens of homes. That not dozens, I think thirteen homes is what I ended up knocking on. And these are like mega mansions outside of d C. So I had some very interesting interactions. I did get permission a couple of spots um and I will save most of what happened, but I will give you one teaser, which is amidst all of that. Amidst that hunt and everything that followed, I had the cops called on me. I was not doing anything illegal, we were, we were in the right, but just as an indication of how bizarre things are out there and how out of the norm hunting is and doing stuff out there, uh, hunting in neighborhoods. I had the cops on that one. So that's trip number one. Trip number two I went to Arkansas hunting in the National Forests, the Mountains of Arkansas, Big Woods Public Land, dear and I was visiting with my buddy Clay Newcomb. Clay Newcomb is the host of the Bear Grease podcast is part of the media team. So we went out there. We packed in on his mule, got back there several miles into the national forest, and I set up camp. Spend a morning with Clay walking around scouting, getting his whole approach that he has learned from his mentor, James Lawrence, who's a Big Woods mountain hunter that he kind of tutored underneath. And the interesting thing from that one, I'll give you the final outcome, which is pretty exciting, and I figure it's worth mentioning because it just happened recently. Is that after a really tough hunt in tough circumstances with a very few deer and not a lot of hope. I killed a buck I got in Arkansas deer uh about four miles back into National Forest, got one down, nice little light pointer, and you can see pictures of him on the Wired Hunt Instagram as well. So those were the two big trips I've had so far this year, other than that Idaho public land hunt that I did do a podcast on. Much more to come on both of these, but as I mentioned, will wait until we get later into the year. I've also got in I had a couple of hunts in Michigan, and then just now this week I get to hunt more in Michigan again, but I'll save what's happening there for a later time as well. So that's that's kind of the latest on me. I want to give you a quick, uh a quick update. Otherwise, today's show, the bill is a good one. I suppose I want to leave you with just a couple other thoughts because this is gonna be the last podcast you hear from me until November. Um, We've got an episode with Tony Peterson lined up again for next week, so you're not gonna hear from me at least until almost the middle of the month. So I want to leave you with some parting words, a few things to think about before we get into bills um, additional rot, honey, insight, I think the big the big thing I want to remind you all of. And this is something that we've talked a lot about over the years, But it's the fact that the rut is this wild roller coaster of emotion for a lot of people. Right there's the there's the excess of votes, excuse me. There's the xs and os for hunting the rut, which is what we're gonna talk about with Bill, which is knowing how to find the right places up your tree, standard your saddle, which is knowing the right time to hunt, which is knowing you know how to get in and out without spooking deer, how to play the win, all that kind of stuff. How do you use trail cameras a pattern deer, so on and so forth. That's obviously a part of this. But then there's this whole other part, which is can you keep your head in the game. Can you stick it out for thirteen hours or twelve hours on stand all day and stay positive and stay focused. Can you get up at three thirty or four am every day and still have the energy to roll out of bed and go do the thing. Can you hunt for seven days straight, finally get a shot at a buck and then miss him, and then somehow rastle up the energy and the tenacity to go back out there tomorrow and try again. Can you get out there, travel thirteen hours to Ohio or Kansas for this big trip you've dreamed about for three years and you get out there and you find out that the neighbors seven dogs have been running over the property every day you're out there, and keep on going through that, Like, there's so many different challenges, there's so many different things that can go wrong, and you've built up all of this excitement and anticipation and you have such expectations for the rut that those two things when they collide, when adversity and expectation collides, it can be It can be tough. It can be tough. And what I have learned over the years has has maybe could be distilled down to two big things, because you've heard me in the past kind of go on and on about these things in different episodes. Right, I think the two things that have helped me the most are this number one. As hard as this is to do, sometimes try to remember to enjoy and find your joy in the process, not the end result, because there's a whole lot of things that can happen that are outside of our control. That might be part of what determines if we actually fill a tag, if we actually kill it deer, if we actually kill that big giant buck, whatever it might be. That's not ultimately within our control. So if all of your fun enjoy for your trip or for your hunting season is wrapped up in that one thing, you're really setting yourself up for a lot of failure and misery. And you know, hunting should not be that. This thing is supposed to be fun. We do this because we love it. We do it because we're passionate about it. We do it because this is something that is supposed to be a net positive in our lives. If we only focus on the end result, it won't be. So you've got to remember to enjoy the present, enjoy each step along the way, enjoy those early mornings, and and try to have fun along the way. And if you lose that fun, if you're doing something and you get to the point you realize, you know what this isn't fun anymore. Well, then maybe you gotta take a step back. Maybe you do need a break, Maybe you need to rethink what you're doing or how you're doing it. Um At least for me, that's where I've ended up. It might be my phase of my life might be you know, some of the experiences I've had, but I'm at the point now we're feeling a tag and being miserable. Isn't worth it. This thing is supposed to be fun. Enjoy yourselves out there and do whatever you need to do to make sure it is still a good time. Now, that all said, if you are goal oriented and you really do want to kill that mature buck or whatever your personal goal is, you do need to be dedicated to it. You do need to know that this is going to be hard. And that's what the second part of my advice comes down to, which is dedicating yourself to execution. Right, there's so much that we know to do. You've heard me talk on this podcast, You've heard Tony talk on the Foundation's podcast. You've heard every week on fresh Radio one we talk about, well, you should do this idea, you should try this thing, you should sit in these kinds of spots. You look for scrapes at this time of year, and funnels at this time of year, intill betting years at this time of year, and you should take the long way around and not spooked deer out of the fields. So on and so on and so on. Most anyone listening to this podcast knows the things to do, but there's a much smaller portion of this audience who will actually do the thing, because so many of these things aren't easy, they aren't convenient, they're not simple, they require work, they required determination, And my my experience has been there's got to be this balancing act between making sure you stay fun, stay having fun, but then also kind of steal yourself for those tough times. Harden yourself to the fact that there will be adversity, there will be toughness, there will be some hard things you have to do if you want to achieve your goals, and be willing to look that hardship right in the hairy eyeball and take it on, because in the long run, that kind of thing is fun in its own way. Pushing through tough times is a whole lot of fun if you can do it, and you can get to the other side. So enjoy yourselves, find joy in the process, but be ready and prepared to handle the tough times, push through them, work hard, and execute on the stuff you know you gotta do. If you can do those two things, if you can balance those two sides of what the rut requires, you can achieve your goals and have a whole hell of a lot of fun along the way. And that is what I'm hoping for each and every one of you. I am hoping and wishing and crossing my fingers that you guys have an unbelievable white tail Rut. I know you've been working hard. I know you've been looking forward to this. I have to I am going to be spending the next few days here trying to feel a tag in Michigan that I'm off to Iowa, that I'm off to Nebraska, and uh hope I'll bring back some great stories and a few lessons learned along the way as well. So thank you all for tuning into the Wire Dunt podcast and let's go enjoy ourselves. And before that, though, let's learn from Bill Winky as he describes his evolving approach to hunting the white tail Rut. Enjoy all right here with me now is Bill Winky. Bill, thank you so much for making the time to jump back on the show with me. Yeah, my pleasure. Hopefully the audio comes off all right, I'm driving my truck heading up to my hunting spot, so there might be a little background sound. That's gonna be the wheels on the highway. That is okay. That that's actually the best possible scenario. Knowing that you're fully locked in and ready to go hunting. That's that's gonna make this conversation better than most I think. So you're you're feeling You've gotta be feeling pretty good. It's October twenty five, I think when we're recording this, it's uh, it's just about the best time of the year, wouldn't you agree? Yeah, I think so. And we've just had this pretty pretty strong front go through. We had thunderstorms, a bunch of rain, high wind um today right now and in central Iowa head and north it's forty two degrees, so you know, high let's say in the forties. Uh, I'm gonna be in a probably in a blind this afternoon. But this is really the official kickoffs. I think I was figured October is kind of when it all starts, and you can get the I buck on a daylight pattern before that. But you know, from here on out you should expect it to be you know, solid action pretty much. Whatever the temperatures are cool enough, catch the right dough in the right place, and you're gonna have a lot of you know, a lot of buck activities. So yeah, it's time to start. I haven't I haven't done any deer hunting yet. I spent some time up in British Columbia. Then since I got back, I've been moving blinds around, kind of taking care of a few things around the house, and you know, helping some far vers and stuff like that. But you know, it's just basically, you know, I don't like to get started too soon, just because I'm afraid that I'll educate the deer before they're actually moving well during the day, you know, unless I've got one on a day life pattern, I just wait until about this time. Can you can you give us a little context for your hunting situation these days, because for folks that are used to hearing from you over the last you know, ten fifteen years, you've traditionally been spending a lot of time on your home farm in southern Iowa. You've got a whole new kind of world around you. Now, can you give us the details on that, what your situation is now. We sold that back in the summer of two thous so it would have been the summer before this past one. Last year was my first year hunting someplace other than our farm for eighteen seasons. I think I hunted eighteen seasons on our farm in southern Iowa, and then, uh, last year was my first time kind of back out into the real world, so to speak. But it's still not the real world. I mean, I've I've got really good places to hunt, you know. I the area where I'm going to right now is where I hunted last year, and this is where I grew up, you know, and I'm fourth generation on both sides of my family in that area. So as far as knowing people, knowing places to hunt, uh, you know, I've got a good running start there. It's not it's not like I went out and you know, I have to start completely from scratch, but you know, you have to learn a new property. Uh. But that style of hunting up in northeast Iiwa and the Bluff Country is pretty straightforward. You know, people think that it's challenging, but it's really not because the you know, the deer utilize that terrain in a really predictable way. So as long as you know there's good, solid, mature bucks around, you can usually figure out pretty quick how they're moving through that country. So it's uh, you know, I hit the ground running, I guess. Uh, I don't feel I don't feel like I've got a lot of enough to do. In fact, I think this is actually easier then where I used to hunt down there in southern I wh where you at a little bit more random movement. So I know last year you at least correctly if I'm wrong on this, But as I understand it, you sold your farm and you were planning them buying new ground up in this new part of the state. But that didn't work out, so you least something. Are you still hunting that same lease or do you have new spots? What's that situation? Yeah, still hunting that least. It was a piece of ground I tried to buy. The fellow didn't want to sell it, and uh, you know, I figured if I leased it, then uh, you know, at least I'd still have a chipped in the game in case he changed his mind. But you know, I don't see him change in his mind. I've worked on him pretty hard and and he's pretty he's a he's a pretty definite no. But it's good hunting. It's a it's a really pretty area. And it's an area that I hunted when I was a kid, you know, so that kind of you're going back full circle. It is pretty fun for me, you know, going back to hunt spots that I hunted thirty years ago. And uh, you know, the land ownership has changed almost universally. There's almost none of the same people owning the same properties in that neighborhood because it was thirty years ago. But there's still people that I know, they're just different people. Yeah. And in in that situation with the least, do you have the ability to make any land improvements? Have you done food pluts? Or is this the kind of hands off just hunt and don't mess with the with the farmer's crops. What's that? Yeah, that's kind of it. And I'm sure that you know, if I wanted to spend the time and the money, the landowner wouldn't say don't do it. It's just you know, there's a limit to uh, you know, what a guy can spend on on the least dround. But I like it if he actually put the food plots in. Um, that's you know, that's uh, that's that's neither here nor there. But there's still enough crop in there and you know, left over from the combining, and you know that food is not really the issue. Being able to concentrate the deer isn't even really the issue either, because like I said, the train is so predictable. Um, if I owned it, I would set it up a little bit differently and it would be probably even easier yet to hunt. But it's, uh, it's pretty straightforward. I'm not saying that I'm gonna go in there knock over a great big John Buck right away. That's not necessarily the case. But as far as like figure out how to set up and and what these they are going to be doing, I don't have any real you don't have any problems there because again, like I said, I grew up doing this, and this this is kind of in my you know, in my history. Yeah, I want to dive into how you do that, Like why why this seems so relatively straightforward and what your approach is going to be in that habitat. But but but real quick, I want to circle back to something you brought up at the beginning, which is the fact that October it's kind of your kickoff and you're viewing from here on out, is you know, the the rise of the rut and all that activity is going to you know, begin here and continue on through November. I've heard you talk a lot about kind of the way you view the process of the rut and the timing of when different things happen and how you evolve your approach throughout that you know, three to four week period whatever it might be. Um, can you just walk us through the timeline that you kind of how you place the rut on the timeline if it kicks off around October? Could just walk us through what how things change when you see them changing, and what that means to you as a hunter as we go from now till whenever you view the end being. Yeah, so I think that the rut, in my opinion is roughly October through November seven somewhere in there. So it's aboutom month and the very best thinking of the whole season can be this last week of October, if it's pulled, if we get a cold front come through, and like I said, we've got you know, a pretty pretty decent conditions right now. Um, you know, I wish it was just a little bit brisker, but it's still pretty good for October. You know, that's that's sort of the best case scenario because you're always trying to catch that buck when the first dove in his range, you're even closer to his core when she comes into Astris, because there's gonna be sort of a reckless abandon that takes place at that time. And then after the first dough or two, you know, then they sort of settle into the business of the run and then it becomes a lot tougher. You don't get nearly as much daylight movement as you as you really sink into the middle of the rut. Nobody thinks that the middle of the run is when the action is at that. I really feel like the action is that the front is. You know, before those bucks get a whole out of breeding under their belt, they're a little bit you know, a little bit perkier, a little bit more active. They're covering ground they might be they'd be uh sibly you're trying to find that next dough. Uh So, I feel like right now you want to hunt as close to the areas where you've been getting pictures of a buck. You're coming into this time frame as you can, you know, without because he's not going to be traveling a lot. Like I said, it's kind of best case scenario. The ruggets got him fired up, but he's he's not really uh leaving his core. We're gonna find him where you expect to find him. Uh So, I like this time. You know, I feel like I killed a nice buck last year and the of October, and the year before that, two thousand nineteen, I killed a really nice one on October. You know, I was a little bit earlier in my start that year. Uh you know, like I said, I gotta a definite favoritism toward this last week of October. Then the first maybe ten to twelve days of November, you're hunting the dose because they're still using their their more traditional areas. You know, they're feeding still for the most part, in the places where they've been feeding all fall, and they're betting in the places where they've been betting all fall, and then you hit a certain point in the run where everything kind of falls apart, and that's sometime after the twelve I call it the lull of the run. You know. It's just a time when it seems like most of the doughes that most of the dose, but the highest number of dose are an estris, you know, so the box have really settled into into the business of breeding. It's not this fever paste like you've got early in the run. They're just taking care of business, and they do most of that at night. They're not active really pursuing doughs during the day. They're not covering a lot of ground. They don't have to because so many of them are an esters um and the doughs themselves have been badgered enough that they're not really used in their normal areas anymore. So it gets a lot tougher I feel like during that part of the run, and sometimes I'll take a few days off there just get away from that, you know. But that's uh, that's the hardest part. I feel like to to hunt. All you're doing I think they're in that part of the run is just being out there and hoping that the hot dough comes by. Because if you get a hot dough to come through, so usually have a buck or two behind her. It's not like like the early in the run when there might be five or six bucks chasing after her, but you should have something trailing behind her and uh, you know, trying to catch up. So you're typically hunting a little bit further away from the open areas back in the in the heavier cover those doors, are trying to get away from being badgered by every single buck out there. Uh. That that time frame, I feel like takes takes this up until about roughly of November. And in a lot of states, your your past the bow season, you know, so you're not really hunting natural movement patterns anymore. You're hunting, you know, more of the forced movement that comes with the firearms season. But in the states that I've been hunting, mostly like Iowa, Kansas, you're still during the bow season, which is my preference. Of course, I'd like to be able to hunt the rut the hole. The November was my bow. So if you're in one of those places that you'll see after about the November as you'll see the does and going back to food, but you'll see that little burst of extra movement said by the older aged last bucks trying to pick off that last you know, hot dough. That's's on the kail end of the of the bell curve. So if you think of you know, the number of those in Estrius as the in the bell shape, you know, early in the rut there's not very many. Then in the middle of the rout, which is roughly about November fift in most parts of the country, that's when the highest number are in Estris, and then the bell starts sweeping back downward. Then you get to, you know, with the lower end of that, and that's somewhere around of November where the you come to the end of the bell. So when you have less, does you know the bucks haven't quite completely lost interest in the run yet at least the older one seven and you'll still see them, just maybe a second wave of of natural movements during that last part of the rut, and that's mostly around food. You can still do well in the mornings, you're getting around bedding areas, you know, but it seems like the bulk of the action is in the last part of November is back around food again in the in the evenings, um so hopefully I didn't throw too much at you. But that's I've just seen that. I guess I've hunted every day of the run for thirty some years, um, like the whole month of November, the last week of October, for that five weeks, for thirty years, uh, in some pretty good areas. And that's just what I've seen, you know, the accumulation of all those experiences. And you'd have a hard time convincing me that that that's not the way it goes down. That's that's super helpful. I want to rewind now, So if we ended there at the end of November, let's rewind back to the end of October, which is where we are right now. You mentioned that last year you killed one on the twenty nine, and the year before you killed it on there. Tonight you're heading in You're probably gonna kill one tonight. So and when this, when this podcast drops, will be the so people listening on the day it comes out, you know, we're right at the tail end of October. So I think it's worth expanding a little bit on this just because people will be, you know, ready to put this into action right away. Can you just dive in a little bit more specifically those last days of October. Maybe there's an anecdote from last year's hunt or the year before that would illustrate it. Maybe not, but just a few more of those next level things to be thinking about. I know you mentioned that these bucks are still you know, pattern or bull, They're still in their home range, but they're feeling a little more frisky. Uh. What are those next level things that you've been able to do to to actually take advantage of those behavioral things that can help you this time year, but some people aren't able to. I think, you know, there's there's not a a big difference in the way that you hunt the last week of October versus the first week of November. You might just be a little bit more aggressive once you get into November. But I still go up on the on the ridges and the mornings, and you know, hunt near the betting areas. I might not, like I said, dive quite as deep is what I would a week later, because I always feel like, you know, push comes to shove on an average year, normal conditions, normal weather, Nomember seventh is pretty hard to beat. So I'm always trying to, you know, sort of build up to that that time frame. So I want to make sure that I don't hunt all of my best spots too hard, too soon, because I want to make sure I've got some places to fall back on, you know, during that time when I think, you know, a lot of the bucks are going to be on their feet, you know that that last hard push before the majority of the does or a high percentage of the does are in the asterisk. Uh. So I'm still in late October. I'm hunting around the food in the evenings. I think you can't go wrong there, and I'm hunting closer to the betting areas. And you don't have to know exactly where the buck is betting. Uh. I mean, I'm sure it would beneficial. But right now he's covering from the ground. I mean, he's not getting back, and he may not even go back to his betting area. He may have five different betting areas, you know. I mean, they're not that predictable. So it's not as if you know you're programming at a computer, you're gonna come up with the same answer every time. Uh. They do a lot of stuff that's still a little bit unpredictable. Even once you know where they live. So just be back in there in places that makes sense from a hunt ability standpoint, in places where you're not gonna bump anything on the way in and out. You know, the wind is completely in your favor while you're on stand don't take any real risks the last week of October and just rely on the fact that they're feeling their oats a little bit and they're gonna they're gonna be moving more. You don't have to go to dam as much as you have to be in their core someplace that you know that's favorable to you. Uh. But you would hunt the buck's core born. You know, as you get into November, you might spread out a little bit more and hunt, you know, do concentration areas. But if you know where there's a buck living, you'll hunt around that spot. Uh. And I guess that's the main thing I would say for October is you know he's still around there someplace he hasn't He hasn't you're kind of giving up his his early fall patterns yet, Yeah, it would it. Well, let me throw you my strange situation. And I'm just curious. I think I know what you'll say, but I'm curious if you've got any different thoughts than what I have. I have a set of trips coming up that are gonna send me out of state for almost the entire month of November. So that leaves me just this week, so the last week of October, to try to kill one of my target bucks on my local spots. Um, So if you only had this last week of October, is the entirety of your rut related hunts in your Let's say this, you know a spot that you're a hunt, a bunch of the spot that you would you would like to hunt a bunch of typically, Uh, would you do anything different than what you just described other than just being more aggressive? Yeah, be more aggressive. I would get to where you think he's living quicker. Um, you know, I'm gonna ease in like this evening. I'm gonna be on the bridge tomorrow morning. I'll probably what I'll probably do this evening is I'll go into one of my redneck blinds. I moved some trailer blinds around a few days ago. I'll probably go into one of them this evening and then just take my sleeping bag and sleep in there tonight tomorrow. That way, I don't have to bump any deer leaving. Um, I don't have anybody to drive in and run the deer off from the spot run rather to be hunting. So I don't want to walk out of there, you know, even climb down and get onto a four wheeler and spook those deer back in that area. Um. But he could come out there. I mean, it's it's basically on the edge of a cornfield right below the ridge where I think this deer mostly live. Um, So he could be there tonight, and I certainly don't want to run the risk of of educating any deer on the way out. So I'll sleep in the blind tonight, hunt it tomorrow morning, even though it's not an ideal morning spot. And then uh, I may do the same thing for a couple more days in other parts of that same cornfield below that ridge, just kind of bounce around a little bit on the fringe, not really getting in there. But then, you know, towards the end of this week, I'm gonna be up on that ridge where I think he's living, and uh, I may go. I may go in there for an you know, an afternoon hunt set to stand up. But I've got a little system I brought with me. I don't know if it's gonna work or not yet. I haven't haven't quite decided, but I've got a warm sleeping bag and a little bitty stack. It's basically, you know, a super lightweight bag that goes over the top of my sleeping bag. I'm just gonna carry that in for the afternoon hunt and then, uh, you know, at the end of legal shooting, tip just climbed down to the ground and sleep at the base of the tree and once again. Yeah, so I mean we'll see. Like I said, in theory, it all sounds good. But if it's twenty five degrees and I'm you know, thrilled up at the base of the tree, that might not be very much fun. But the idea, of course, has not spooked this deer coming and go. So if you're gonna be aggressive, you have to be cautiously aggressive, if that if that makes sense, and that means that you can't take risks with your entry and exit, but you can go in there where that deer lives if he doesn't know you're coming and going. Uh So that's what I would say, is, you know, just be aggressive and go to where you think he's living as long as you can get away with it. But if you don't think you could get away with it, then it's not worth it. It's not worth a foolish risk, uh at any point of the season. But you know, uh kind of a well considered you know, I'm playing the risk reward game here and it seems to follow my way. Uh. I'd say you'd be aggressive then because you don't have you don't have to save it for you know, November seven, you can you can play all your cards right away. Yep, no downside other than using up those six seven days I have and then wait till next year. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's too bad that you can't say. Well, I mean, I'm sure you've got some fun hunt Una. It's too bad you can't put it all together on on your local spot there for longer. Yeah, it's gonna be a different kind of year. I mean, I'm used to getting some quality time chasing some of these these dare I know well, so hopefully can pull it off early, but if not, it will make for a good, longer story that continues into next year and learn some stuff. Um, you mentioned that you're gonna sleep in your blind, your red neck blind maybe tonight, and you mentioned sleeping at the base of a tree once you get later into the week. I mean that's some hardcore. You know, you're really dedicated to these access and exit kind of situations and making sure you're not spooking these deer. I was gonna ask if you get more lax with your access during the rut. It sounds like that's not the case. Can you can you speak to just in general, how you feel about entry and exit during the rut and how you think about differently. Are there things you do different this time of year? Do you allow yourself to cut some corners or be a little bit riskier with it because you know it's the rut and you have to try things. What's what's your take on all that? I think you can you can be more aggressive if you're hunting peer travel rouse, you know, if you're hunting endpoints, you know where the deer kind of pool up, like I say, a betting areas, an endpoint, in a feeding area, in an endpoint, but there are spots in between, like maybe there's a ditch funnel, you know, where the deer go up around a ditch when they're walking. You know, just cruising back and forth between betting areas, or they're going from a betting area to a feeding area or whatever, those kind of spots, because the deer aren't necessarily going to be there when you're going in and out. Uh. In theory, at least, you know you're going in before they traveled through, and you're going out after they've traveled through on the on an afternoon hunt and vice verst on the morning. Um, you know you can come and go a little bit more freely, but when you're hunting near those endpoints, and again I'm talking feeding areas and betting areas, uh, you have to be super careful because if you educate the deer in those places, then the whole the whole system breaks down, um, because then they're more cautious and they're not moving naturally anymore, and you're not gonna have nearly as much daylight activity in those areas. So that's kind of my sense. I don't I don't get riskier during the run. Uh, I don't take more chances. I hunt super cautious through the whole season. Um. I'm just being a little bit more hardcore now because I don't have a cameraman there's nobody that's gonna these laying there saying, you know, how come we're out here again? You know, what was you? What were you? What were you thinking when you said we were going to sleep at the face of this tree? Remind me of that again, you know, So you can be a little bit more hardcore when it's just you. But I don't think i'd subject to cameraman to two you know what I'm gonna go through. Uh. The other thing is we never really did this kind of stuff because we had to produce those daily up as notes all the time. But there was really no way to do that. Can't hunt like this, Yeah, but we also had we also had people around that could come and you know, blow the field, and you know, there were ways, there were ways to get out of a feeding area the evening. It's harder to get out of a betting area, you know, in the that it is to get out of a feeding area, because you know, you can't just drive in there with a four wheeler and mount the deer off like you get a feeding area. Yeah. This this is just a quick aside. But people watching from the outside, I'm sure watched you hunting your home farm for years and years and producing Midwest white tail and killing all these big deer and all that kind of stuff. Um, And now they might look at you and say, oh, he's just hunting a farm. He can't do anything special to it. He doesn't even own it. He has to get in here hard and sleep on the ground, and he doesn't have a show. And there aren't people do menting everything, and they might think that, oh, man, Bill must be missing what he used to have. But I'm curious listening to you. I'm wondering. I'm thinking, maybe is this unbelievably liberating? Is this incredible if we get to go back to this, or or what is your thought on this new phase of your hunting life you find yourself in. And I haven't been too secretive about you know what I did. I like helping people get better at deer hunting. I liked producing Midwest white til. It was a good business. You know. I got to do it on my own terms, on my own land. I didn't have to travel. I could watch my kids grow up, you know, I could. I could be around so I got the best of really a lot of world there. Now. You know, if I don't feel like going hunting. Sometimes I just won't do I'll go see mom and dad, or I'll go watch the high school football game or whatever, you know, and and uh or maybe I'll go sit on a piece of public land just because it's a beautiful view of the Mississippi River or something like that, you know where. You know, back in the day, everything had there was an agenda attached to every hunt. You know, we had to get viewership. We had to maintain you know, our storylines. We had to uh, you know, react to the audience. We had to you know, produce something. We had to create value, and uh aren't have to create any value just go deer hunting. So from that standpoint, it's it's a lot more liberating. I mean, I I missed uh opponent land. I mean there's a lot of headaches to go with that too, as you know, um, you know, it's not it's not just this perfect world where you wake up and you go, oh, this is awesome. I've got a farm, you know, there's Cole's getting out, and there's all kinds of stuff. You gotta deal with it, you know, if you're just leasing it or hunting on provision, or hunting public land or something like that. You don't have all those issues. Uh, but what you do have when you own it is the ability to set it up so that it's very productive. Uh. And uh I do. I do miss that, and I do miss uh spitting a tree and looking around and saying, well, you know, if I cut down, you know, these twelve trees over here in this corner, I have another, you know, brushy spot for the deer to bed in or whatever. You you're always thinking when you're hunting about your management projects. Um, but I don't do that now because I'm not on land that I have any control. Yeah. Overall, I'd say it's way more relaxing, uh, now that it's been for quite a while. Yeah, yeah, imagine that's great. So back to back to how to kill deer. Now that we know how to kill deer and have a little more fun, Um, back to the house of the hunting part. You know, you have been writing about hunting the rut and talking about hunting the rut uh longer than almost anyone these days. I feel like I've been doing it for a lifetime, and I have been out nearly as long as I have. I been doing as you have. So what I'm curious about is this there's these two major pillars of rut hunting strategy. I guess you could say, right, it's the It's kind of like scripture. It's recited over and over every year. Every single article about the RUT is going to include this. Every you know, it's it's the basics that everybody knows. It's hunt the does, and it's hunt pinch points or funnels, right, I mean, those two things are kind of tried and true concrete. This is the the two foundational principles of hunting the RUT. I'm curious what are we missing or what has been oversimplified, or what are we getting wrong? If you were to review conventional wisdom and all the things you've said over the years and other people have said in in this line of business, now that you've seen it all, you've read it all, you've wrote it all, is there anything that we're missing on those two fronts? What would you add? I think that every situation it is different, and we try to stereotype because we want to help people. We have to generalize certain things. You know, we have to say, you know, this is the trend or this is how you know, kind of things usually go, but every situation is a little bit different. And you know, the art of hunting, I think is playing that risk versus reward game where risk is how much impact that you're making, what your chances are of educating the deer that you're hunting, and then the reward is, you know, what of them, the likelihood of one of the bucks I would like to shoot walking through during daylight? You know. So I think that's the that's the part that you know, maybe, like I said, every situation is unique. Uh. You know, if you're hunting public plan, it's a way different way, different setups. If you're hunting on permission and there's two or three other guys there, or you're hunting you know, acres versus hundred acres, that that formula changes, you know, every single place that you go. And there's a perfect way to hunt. It may not be perfect from the standpoint of this you're gonna kill, but there is a best way to hunt, uh, in each one of those situations. So, you know, I think maybe we overlook the heart of deer hunting a little bit and and uh, but no, you can't go wrong hunting, does I mean, that's that's the underlying principle of I think you know the pitch points. Uh, you know that's that can work really well too, But you know it's still in the in the context of hunting goes and hunting around does Uh. You know, there's there's there's The run isn't very complicated. Um, you know, there's not a whole lot that you have to do really well, but you know you can't let them even know that you're hunting them, and you gotta hunt ideally, you know, close to doms. So I don't know. I think sometimes we're trying to make it more complicated because we have to sell articles and we have to try to try to get people so interested in in some new philosophy. You know, there's been a whole lot of discussion of buck betting areas all this stuff, and I'm like, well, maybe, you know, I guess I don't know. I mean, I've hunted a long time and I've never really felt like I had to know where they bet. You know, I need to know which part of the property that I'm hunting they live in. But you know, I feel like they've got options, so they might have two or three different places where they bet. I just need to know, you know, how I can hunt their general area without them knowing that I'm there. That's the heart. Is there anything when it comes to that art that you have had to change in recent years? Is there any way that you're thinking or or approach to that side of things has evolved recently because you've had a lot of time to fine tune this. I gotta believe, even though you've been killing deer for decades now successfully, that you must be better now than you were obviously. Yeah, youliminate, you eliminate all risks, you know. I mean, let's say you've got fifty tree stands down. Let's just say for the sake of argument, and there's only six of them that are no brainers. That's set up really well, those are the only six I hunt down. I've got forty four tree stands sitting there that I don't hunt anymore. That's what's changed. Uh. I don't take any risk with educating deer. And again that kind of goes back to the places that I hunt. If I was hunting more places where there was competition with other hunters, I would probably have to be more aggressive. But you know you've got the spot, know you've got one. Maybe you've got five of them. Like, man, I just love hunt there, but I know that when I go in there, I'm gonna bust solfing coming out. But I just can't help myself. I'm gonna go in there anyway. Don't hunt that spot, you know, find it, find a different way, a different creative way to hunt it. Put a blind in there and sleep in the blind. Do do something else, but don't both close deer. You know, you think that it doesn't create that much damage, but it does. M That's that's the reason that we aren't consistently successful is because the deer know that we're hunting them. It's not because they're smart. Uh, they really aren't smart. They're just really good at knowing when you're there and when you've been there. And then they're nocturnal, and with the bow hunting natural movement, you know, a nocturnal buck is your enemy, you know. So it's that's what I think it really Maybe that's what's happened to be over the past ten years, that that I wouldn't have thought about earlier, because I would have hunted all fifty of those spots and just taken my lumps. Now, the amount of sanctuary in the properties that I hunt is fast. You know, Let's say I'm hunting a five acre area you know I might be I'd never go into just because there's no easy way to hunt it without bumping something. So what do you it's more of the more extreme, more extreme. I'm curious what do you do when one of your bulletproof sets ends up not being bulletproof? Though? So you've got to one of these places that you've got figured out, and then maybe your target buck surprises you and goes down wind and wins you, or a family group of dose does something like that and blows for half an hour at last light. Uh, what do you do when they figure you out? And and now you have to react to that? Well, it was probably never bulletproof to begin with. Then, Um, there's there's not very many really really perfect stand locations. Um, you might find a dozen of them in your lifetime, maybe more. If you own land, you can create them. You know, I know how to create some of those kind of spots. Basically, you have to have a safe wind. You have to have a direction where the wind can blow, where you know that they aren't gonna get down wind view. Uh, that's what makes the bulletproof. And then you use that for your entry and exit because for whatever reason, maybe it's a lake, maybe it's a river, whatever it is, there's something that prevents them from getting down wind. Well, that's your entry at eggit ground whatever that you know, whatever that thing is, that trade feature, that's that's how you're getting get it out. That's how you get a bullet throop. Stand Um. The other thing I've done a lot more up your recently. You know, I get criticized for hunting these red neck blinds all the time because people would rather see me in a tree. Well now they can't see me doing anything, so nobody criticizes me anymore. But if you if you close up the doors and windows on those things, uh, the deer don't smell you. And and uh, you gotta have some of the more recent blind Some of the stuff that they made, you know, six or eight years ago didn't have as many hinges, you know, and and the gaskets weren't quite as good, and they weren't air tight. The current batch of blinds are almost air tighting. I mean, towards the end of filming for Midwest might tell that was what we were doing and we were never getting busted. We'd have two people in those things, and I was sitting there until the very last second with the windows closed and then just speak, open the window real quick and then take my shot out and that would be uh, that's his cloth as the bulletproof that you can get in in, uh, especially getting around small feeding areas. You know, it's hard to hunt a ridge top, you know, with a bunch of cover out of the blind. But if you're in a feeding area or a small opening, natural opening or whatever, the spot where the wind is really tough to play, just stay in the blind with the windows closed and open it right at the last second to get your shot and you're not gonna spook any deer. But that's that's the other extreme, is uh, you know, finding ways to completely eliminate the chance of getting winded. So speaking of these, you know, potentially bulletproof sets, it brings to mind for me, Um at least when you're when you're talking through this, I'm starting to envision different places like that that I've seen, or I'm starting to kind of draw up ideal scenarios in my head, which makes me want to hear from you could you could you maybe either think up imagine a couple of these ideal sets, or could you describe a handful of these that you have yourself hunted in detail? Like I'm talking a perfect rut hunting stands. I'd love to hear what the terrain and habitat features around it that make it so good. I'd love to hear about how you have the access planned and makes it so good. I'd love to hear about what the wind situation that makes a bulletproof, um, how high in the tree, what kind of true whatever it is like that. I'd really be interested if you can think of two or three examples like this, I think would really help people to visualize and put something like this into action themselves. Do you have anything that comes to mind? Yeah, oh yeah, a bunch of of them. So the I can give you a terrain related one. I used to hunt a spot when I was a kid. I haven't hunted their sins, but it was on the up edge of a rock barry and some of this bluff country. You know, there's limestone in the in the bedrock, and they'll eat away at it from the bottom, you know, and create these these you know, big I don't know what you called. You know, craters in the side of the ridge where they taken out the stone and grounded up they travel out of it. Well, that's a sharp drop off, that's like a cliff that that creates a funnel for one thing. You know now that here that are traveling that side of the slope, they have to go up around that quarry because they can't they can't go through the quarry because of just the sheer drop off, so they go up around it. Well, that creates a funnel at the top of the wary edge. And then if you hunt it with the wind coming to safe from the the ridge towards the quarry, so it's blowing across the top of the ridge, taking your stand out over their quarry, and you've got your tree stands that maybe twenty yards or fifteen yards and wary edge. Uh, there's no way you're ever going to get sented. So now the trick is how do you get in and out of there? You know with how think any deer? Well, they're not going that side hill because the quarry is there. So you park at the quarry and then you walk up along the edge. You know, like the cliff edge, you know, from the bottom of the valley up you work your way up around the cliff edge and get in your tree. Well, they're never gonna smell where you walked. Um, that's a no brainer. I did a spot like back quite a bit when I was a kid. Um I'd just spotted in Kansas. There was another no brainer. There was all of the cover was on the on one side of this creek, and the creek was fairly deep. You had to have waiters in order to cross this creek. And on the one side of the creek where I park was all winter wheat. On the other side of the creek was this like maybe area of habitat. It was just the spot that didn't get farmed. It was too rough for something. I can't remember why. But I would just park, you know, back on the opposite side, on the away from the you know, back side of the winter weed, away from the creek. Walk across the winter week field. Usually I try to follow a tree line or something, a fence line, something where I'm not just walking right across the middle of the field, get into the creek, walk the creek up to the base of your tree, stands, climb up the creek bank and get into your tree. So you hunt that with the wind blowing from the habitat on the other side of the creek across the creek out into the winter wheat. And granted you could get the odds deer that would come into that winter wheat on the other side of the creek, but there's no habitat on that side, and it's really hard to cross that creek. You know, it's about waist deeper. So and the deer don't really mess with it because I've got plenty of food on the side that you know has the habitat. Uh. That was a no brainer. Uh. Anything that has to do with rivers or lakes, you can always find a spot where the deer can't get down window you. And you know, whether you need a little boat or sometimes you can get by with waiters, but you access it from that direction, there's not gonna be are there because the train features they prevent the deer from from going there to begin with. Another one that you run into quite a bit is in pasture country. You'll get areas where the cattle have access to a field and and they've they've eaten it right down to the ground basically, but on the edge of that there's a wood lot and the cows are fenced out of the wood lot, or maybe it's on the neighboring property. Whatever. Well, the deer don't really go across that old pasture. There's really nothing there for them. So you might get the odd one that goes across if there's something to know that on the other side of it that they're trying to get to, like a standing cornfield or another wood lot or something like that. But normally they don't travel across these wide open pastures. They stick to the fence lines and they stick to the cover. Well, now you've got a spot where the deer aren't going to be downwind of view. You know, you can use maybe a little low spot in the pasture or whatever, you know, anything you can do to hide. You slip in there, step in a little ways into that into that wood lot, you know, twenty ars or so in set your tree stand out with the wind blowing out into the pasture. Um, you know, your odds of you're messing that up are pretty low. Uh, it's even better yet if it's a travel area, you know, over the deer going from you know, point A to point B and passing through that spot. I mean, if you start, if you start thinking about it, just come up with tons of spots like that. Another one that works really well too, really quick is you know, if you get high enough on a ridge similar to like like I said, talking about the edge of that quarry, but if the land drops away from you fairly quickly on the downwind side, uh, the deer passing on that side of you are going to be below your senstory and you want to be up close to the top. So because someways you get swirling, you know, where the wind comes over the top of the ridge, then it starts to swirl dropping into that valley. So if you're above that swirl point, uh, your sense is going to stay above the deer in the entire valley down the downward side of you. Um. That's kind of how I set up in betting areas. I tried to get situations like that on these ridgetop betting areas because then I can approach it into the wind, get into my tree on the downwind edge of the ridge, and then any deer that travels, you know, through there, even if they're you know a little bit down windom me, Um, they're not going to pick up I sent. So those are just a few, uh but you know, you study an area long enounce and you'll figure out, you know, how to turn sponsor we're a little bit tougher to hunt into no brainers by just tweaking them a little bit. On that example, that last one related to ridges, I think this is a good time to dig a little bit more into that specific terrain feature because so many places across the country have some version of a ridge that deer use in relatively predictable ways. And I know that you mentioned in this new area hunting and that's kind of the name of the game, and you described it as pretty straightforward. Can you elaborate a little bit more on how you're setting up like eight number one, how do you believe these deer are using those ridges? And then be maybe a little more detail on how you're choosing whearing the ridge you want to set up. I understand that you're getting up there, uh down on the down wind side, blowing your wind into the valley, but more detail on that would be helpful. Well, then I'll start with that first. Whenever possible, we'll try to find there's a like a little uh, I guess it's a little valley or a little hollow or draw leading up the ridge, leading up the side of the ridge. We'll go around the tops of those little draws. So if you have an erosion, bitch, let's say, for example, that comes down off of off a ridge. Uh, that's a that's a prime example of of a train feature that they're going to go around. But it can be more subtle than that. It can be just that you know, five ft six foot deep dip, you know, where the the terrain kind of you know, it's kind of hard to I'm showing you on a topo map, but you can probably envision it. It's not Most bridges aren't just perfect. They've got play them, you know, going on either side. So all you to go up the draw and then set up at the top of that draw, because then you get a little bit of a bottleneck the fact at the top, because the deer are gonna, like you said, tend to follow that contour around, and then you get to keep a little bit more out of sight coming and going because you're down in that little draw. In places where you don't have those draws, really what you're doing is playing a trade off of how far out towards the end of the point that you want to go, because the density of betting seems to get higher the further towards the end of the ridge that you get, like the point. And you know, sometimes you don't have bridges I guess that don't have points. Uh, you know, they're just like long ridges that run along the side of a creek or something like that. But normally they go out to a point. You know, it's because there their valley that joins you know, the one that that overlooks you know that the that the ridge overlooks normally to go out to a point, and that's where the the key betting area is. The deer will bet, will bet all along the ridge. But they really do like to favor that very in because then they can see in every direction. They don't really have stuff that sneaks up on them. They can smell what's behind them, and they can see everything that's out in front of them. Um so, so naturally they like to get out on those points. So I don't like to set up right out on the point because I feel like it's hard to get out of a morning stand of the deer betting close to you, and if you're gon try to hunt that spot at the afternoon for whatever reason, it's gonna be super hard to get in there because the deer are gonna be there, you know, are anyone you're trying to sneak in. So that's the other thing I would look at is trying to anticipate where the deer are actually going to be vetted. And uh, I don't want to set up right on top of where they're going to be vetted. I would rather be a little ways off and let the move but you know, let the run in the in the activity that takes place in those in those areas, you know, move a buck within bow range rather than runt of the risk of being right on top of the deer that are betting there. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, when when thinking about a situation like this, like hunting a ridgeline or you know, the head of a ditch that kind of funnels deer along as they cruise along that ridge or any other terrain, pinch point funnel, etcetera. A lot of times we envision those types of setups as being as being a spot where you wait for you know, opportunity, you wait for any buck that's gonna come through there, or what any buck of your age, target rain or whatever it is. It's not the kind of thing that you typically think about when trying to kill a specific buck. And really I think that applies a lot of the time to the rut in general. Right when people think about the rut, folks claim that, yeah, you can't pattern one. I'm curious if you if you have a thought on approaching the rut with a specific deer in mind, you know, do you do anything different? Can you pattern a deer in any kind of way during the rut or is it kind of hoping and praying? So I think you can. I think that they they may not be quite as predictable, but they're still gonna be staying somewhere near there their typical core, you know, like wherever you found them in the middle of October, they're gonna be in that general area. Some of them will just take off, think you know, their on the odd box. They will leave and go file away or whatever two miles away. Do you hear those stories all the time, But that's not been really my experience. In general. The bucks usually don't just take off and leave. Um. They may, they may expand their range a little bit, but more than anything, they're just tied up with does and they're breeding does and they're not really moving. Um. So I don't feel like you can't kill them in in their in their normal rages. They're normal, you know, on near their normal core, in the spot where they spend most of their time in October. It's still the spot where you should be able to find them, uh during the run, just not quite as consistently because they're not there every day. That's the that's prime to the difference, because you know, there might be on one end of their range for two days breeding a dough and then on the other end of their range for two days breeding a dough, whereas in October they might have been in their core or near their core every single day. But you can still kill them, you know, on purpose during the bun. You don't have to abandon the hope of of you know, trying to kill a specific buck. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen the same thing in a lot of places too. And I know that some studies have even shown when radio coloring or GPS coloring these bucks that you know they do have those core key places that they keep returning to, like those dope beetting ears or a doe feeding ear, and they they cycle through often. So I do think that's one of those things that's gotten overblown, is that people think these deer throw all caution and reason to the wind and they just run around willy nilly. But they still have a goal in mind. Of course, when they get on a dough, then it does become kind of wild. But when they're seeking a dough trying to find those doughs, there's there's a handful places where they usually will be in any given spot, and those bucks know it. So we'd be wise to do the same thing, right, Yeah, I think so, you know, it's just unfortunate that that's the run only has a few really good days, you know, like you're saying, people think it's willy newly, you know, wide open from the beginning to the end, but it's not because they just don't move really really well very often. Uh And and I think a hot dough is one of the triggers. And sometimes it has to do with the weather, and sometimes it's just stuff. I don't know why, but you'll have days during the rotten where you'll see you know, ten bucks and you think, oh man, things are busting loose, this is gonna be awesome. Then the next day you don't see any and you're hunting, you know, basically the same areas. So it's not like it's an end to end action packed time. Uh. You know, you still have to be there, you know, as often as you can, you know, put your time in so that you're there during those five or six days when it's really good, you know. And they're not five or six contiguous days either. They're just five or six days, and sometimes you can predict them and sometimes you can't. It's it's a yeah, it's it's an interesting game. I've learned. I learned that the hard way too, that it's not it's not good all the time. So curious about the upcoming conditions. Speaking of days that are better than some across at least a lot of like the Upper Grade Lakes, the Midwest, central parts of the country, we've got a lot of rain pushing through and you know, a lot of wind as these fronts are moving across the country. Uh. As far as that rainy days or just after big rainy days and then windy days with the fronts pushing through. What's your take on on how dear activity, your buck activity in this time of year is impacted by that. I mean, I don't think they move very well when it's raining hard. Um, A light rain doesn't seem to impact them that much. And people think that they don't like to move when it's windy, but that's not been my experience either. You know. I feel like windy days can be really really good. Some of my very best hunts have been on pretty windy days, So don't let the in throw you. In fact, I've had a lot better success on windy days than I have on still days. Um. I don't know if the deer they just kind of get a little bit edgier on those still days. I think it's because they can hear everything, and so they just stand there listening. You know, like they'll hear vehicle on a gravel road two miles away and they'll stop to listen, you know, where if the window was blown fifteen miles an hour, they wouldn't hear that truck und yards away because of the leaves, you know, the leaves rattling in the trees. So I feel like they're they're hyper sensitive on still days and they don't travel as well as they do on windy days. Yeah, it's a it's just the opposite of what some people think they're Yeah, well, I'd say that's good news for for folks across across a lot of the country this week at least, because that seems to be in the forecast. Yeah. I know, you've got to run here pretty quick because you you've got a big hunter head of you, and I know, um, I know that you've got high hopes for it. I do too, So I to just wrap it up with one last kind of thought here. Question. I've always thought that a lot of rut hunting success. Of course, that the excess knows matter and spending out time out there that matters a ton, of course. But there's this other side of the rut that is happening between our ears. There's this whole mental side of you know, hunting, this this high pressure like this is we build up the rut so much all year, right, we were eat, sleeping, and breathing just to get to this period. This is the super bowl of our season. And then it gets here and it's the million different things that are possible during the rut UM, I'm curious for you, Bill, what do you view as maybe the greatest mental challenges we typically face during the rut and how have you learned to overcome them? Or when I bring this topic up of the mental challenges of the rut, what comes to mind do you? And how have things evolved for you? I think the biggest challenge that we have is we treat it like a sprint and not a marathon. Um. You know, we we get into it and we're so excited, and we go to our best spots and we burn them out, and then we go to our next best spots and we burn them out. And you know, we need to treat the rut, especially if you have enough days to hunt, you know, where you don't have to go for broke right away. You need to treat it as a marathon and not a sprint, um, because you have better success, you know, over the long haul by being patient and working your way in on the stuff that makes sense rather than just diving in on top of it right from the start. Um. But other than that, you know, you can get worn down. But you know, as hunters, we love this stuff, so it's not like when you get worn down It's not the same as if you're you know, going out and running five miles a day and you're like, I need a break from this. It's more of a you know, it's a different kind of worn down. It's not the kind of worn down that you're hoping to get away from. It's it's the kind of worn down that you love. Um, So I don't look at that and say, well, I've gotten burned out. I never get burned out on hunting the run. Um, it's just you just have to be patient and and and not get too uh, you know, too crazy right off the bat, because you can ruin your season by being impatient. And Uh, that's just what I would caution people. It's you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Wise wise words, Bill, Well, I know you've got to get out there and hit the woods. Since I want to. I want to let you get that get after it. Uh. Is there anything you want folks to keep an eye out from you? Or is there any place people can still keep in touch with you or stay abreast of what you're up to these days that you want to share. I'll probably get back into media a little bit more again at some point I'm taking a break, kind of hitting the reset button. But I mean I do have the bill Winky dot com website going. I haven't got a whole lot of content on there. Um, you know, I'm trying to, you know, pop into it's a while and answer questions that people might have and and that sort of thing. But um, you know, for the most part, I'm just kind of flying under the radar, hitting the reset and then kind of seeing you know where I you know where I come back to the surface again. Uh. You know, it just thirty some years of going as hard as I could go, It's time to take a little break and reassess, you know, everything about it, not only just the business part of it, but even my own motivation and you know what, what about it that fires me up? Um. So, so I'm not really doing a whole lot, which is fine with me right now, but I do have to get back to work, so it's not like I can go on forever like this. Yeah. Well, it sounds like a much a well deserved rest, and I'm glad that you're enjoying it. I don't know if it's deserved, but it sure is nice. I bet I'm jealous of all the trout fishing you've been doing. In particular, I've seen that. Yeah, I've been see. That was something I did growing up as a kid too. I was a big time trout fisherman. Not awesome at it, but I went all the time, you know. And just getting back to that, you know, and having fun, you know, getting that little tug on the end of the line is because uh, that's been that's been good for me too. Yes. Well, if you're ever swinging through eastern Idaho or western Wyoming, you're welcome to go fishing me at my cabin out there any summer. You just let me know. Well, we might have to hit the h Henry spork at some point then, oh man, the heater spork is right, it's in my backyard. Well, let's go. We'll plan on it. It'll be you tell me when it's best and I'll be there. All right, Let's let's talk soon. Bill. Good luck tonight and the rest of your rut. Yeah sounds good to you too. Thank you. All right, that's it. I hope you enjoyed this one. Thank you for tuning in. We'll keep this short and sweet. Get out there, get your button a tree or a ground blind or a patch of weeds, whatever it is, get outside, chase those dear and have a good time. Execute, but have a good time, and until next time, stay wired, don't m hm.