00:00:01 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the modern white tail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and today in the show, we've got Adam Hayes, big buck Killer from Ohio, and we're running him through the what would you Do gauntlet, posing him some of the most difficult deer hunting scenarios and seeing how he'd handle it. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light, and today we are continuing our series of what would you Do episodes. Now you're probably familiar with this format. Now we started last summer, we did a handful last year, We've kicked off a few more this year, and now for the month of August, I want to do a four week run of these leading into opening Days for so many people because I think this format, in which we pose hypothetical scenarios to an expert deer hunter and then find out how they would deal with him, I think it gives us a different level of insight. It gives us a different view into how these people do what they do, and at least for myself, I'm finding particularly interesting and fun I'm hoping that's the case for you guys. And our guest today is someone who I think we all want a better view into because of the kind of unbelievable success he has. This is Adam Hayes. Of course, he's the host of Team two hundred TV. He's been on UH many other shows like white Tail Addictions. He is the UH he runs the moon Guide Company app product all that kind of stuff. He's been targeting big mature white tails for a long time now, and he's kind of made a name for himself by being one of the few people to really target the biggest of the big white tail. He has four two white tails to his name. And you know, whether or not you care about inches, I don't think it's something that anyone has to care about. But if that's your thing, that's cool. But I think regardless of two hundred or twenty inches, what Adam has done is he's found a way to find in target the hardest dear to kill in any given area. And that's something that can be applicable to you whether you're in Iowa Jason two internes deer or in Maine Jason ten inch deer um. We can learn something from Adam because the same things required to kill that tough buck in Iowa, similar things need to be applied to kill that old but smaller deer in Michigan or Pennsylvania or Georgia, whatever. So that's the kind of stuff I wanted to learn from Adam. Today, we're gonna give him a whole bunch of different questions, a whole bunch of different specific scenarios, and see how he would handle them. I also brought on a guest host today. I brought my guy, Tony Peterson onto the main show. Of course, he hosts the Foundations podcast on Tuesdays, which I hope you were listening to because they're really freaking good. But I also want to bring Tony on for some of these what would you do episodes because he's got, you know, all sorts of other crazy things going in his head that I'm not always thinking about that I thought would be great to throw at these guys and give just a little bit more diversity to the kinds of questions we're asking the things we're thinking about in the topics we cover. So today Tony and I are gasking Adam what he would do and some tough white tail scenarios. I think you're gonna enjoy this one. I hope you do. So let's get to it and find out what Adam Hayes would do. All right, back with me on the podcast. Today, we've got Adam Hayes. Adam, welcome back to the show. Good to be here, man, I appreciate the invite. How are things that wired to Hunt World headquarters this morning? They're good, they're good. Uh did some some bean field glassing last night. Uh. Got got a new bow coming in today I'll be shooting. So the white tail season is approaching quickly and I'm I'm getting excited. So this podcast is well timed to help scratch the itch that is very, very profound right now, how about you? Yeah? And summer, the summer is flown by. I don't know if it's because drug last year with the whole you know, COVID deal, and this one is just flying by. But I cannot believe it's August already. It's crazy. It's come fast, that's for sure. So here's here's something I want to do, Adam. This is gonna be a little bit unique compared to the past couple of podcasts we've done together. Uh. The idea here is what I'm calling that what would you do? Gauntlet? So instead of me asking you what do you think about scrapes or do you like grunt tubes? Instead, I'm gonna lay out a very specific scenario. Basically, I'm gonna tell you a story and ask you what you would do in that s situation, how you would handle this scenario, etcetera, etcetera. And these aren't gonna be softballs. These are gonna be mostly they won't be softballs. They're mostly gonna be tricky scenarios. And how many lifelines am I gonna get? Yeah, we'll let your phone a friend just one time, and I think it's gonna get us an interesting look into how you do this stuff, which you obviously do so well. And uh, and also with me to help with this as my buddy and co host and many of these Tony Peterson. So Tony is going to throw you some zingers as well. So are you ready for this gauntlet? Man? You got me nervous? Now I think you can handle. I guess I'm as ready as I'll ever be. Yeah, I trust you are, So Tony. I'm gonna lead off here, but feel free to jump in when you've got one. Um, here's my first scenario, Adam. And this is something that I know you're familiar with. You've you've dealt with this scenario, but I want to really get into the nitty gritty of of what you do. So imagine it is August one and you're down in Ohio, maybe like central Ohio, southern Ohio. You're driving the back roads. It's the evening, it's nice and warm, and you are just driving around your binoculars on the passenger seat next to you. And this is a new area. You've never been in this zone. For whatever reason, you just decided I don't gonna take a drive through a new spot and see what's out here. And while you're driving these back roads it's the last hour of daylight. You see that big old cage lift up in the back of the bean field and you slam on your brakes or you quietly touch on the brakes, slow down, pulp your binoculars, and you think, wow, that is uh, that is a buck I'm interested in, Like that's a potential two type deer or just a mega giant that definitely gets your heart beating really fast. You see it that night it's you know, at this point, I don't Let's say it's nine o'clock in the evening. What do you do next? That's as far as I'm getting you. You see the buck, What do you do in the next half hour? What do you do the next day? How do you proceed in this situation when you're in a brand new spot. You've just seen this two type buck, but you have you have no permission to access anywhere in the area. What are your next steps? Well, I mean that's excuse me, that's half the battle right there, is just finding a big deer like that to hunt because they're not on every farm. Um, so you know, being able to locate one or no, you know, the general area where one is at is like said, it's half the battle. So I mean the first thing, obviously I'm going to do is is, you know, try to get some landowner information and see, um, you know who owns the property and get a get a look at it, you know from an aerial standpoint, to see what the area looks like. Um, it's kind of a catch twenty two that time of the year. I mean, I know everybody's seeing the you know, the velvet giants in the batch of the groups in the summertime, and you know, the most most of those deer that have been doing the same thing, you know, all summer long in the same fields. Once you know, they shed their velvet, they're gonna be gone. You know. Sometimes they'll be close by, sometimes they're gonna be a couple of miles away. So that's a really difficult time to see one and then try to plan on, you know, if you can obtain permission, you know, hoping that that gear is going to be there once season rolls around is really a you know, a roll of the dice. You know, I'm a firm believer that you know, deer, especially mature gear, have their summer feeding patterns, and once that velvet comes off and they know, you know, they know what's coming there gone and they're vanished and they're back to their core areas, which you know could be close. You know, it could be on that same farm, or it could've relocated deer you know, over two miles away once they shed their velvet, when they've gone back to their core area. So it's really tricky situation. But I mean, being in an unknown area, you know, what more can you do other than you know, do a little homework, find out who the landowners are. Like I said, get a look at the aerial and see what the surrounding farms look like. See what the crop route, you know, crops look like. You know, because those big deer um that time of the year are going to be focused, at least in my part of the country, they're focused on you know, slavings that are still green. So um, that's a key place to look if you are able to get permission and to focus on. But you know, there's so many different things changed in that time of the year. Two with acorns are starting to drop, farmers are starting to harvest rops. So I mean, food sources can change on almost a daily basis at that time of the year or two. So, I mean there's a lot of variables to take into consideration. But I guess to try to answer your basic questions, first thing I'm gonna do is, you know, see who I need to talk to and see if I can get permission. What what's the like, how many pieces are you going to try to get permission on. Let's say, you know, there's there's the there's the piece that you saw the deer on, but then there's also you know, maybe several other adjacent farms that have got good cover and good food on them too, And like you said, there's probably gonna be some kind of shift. So when you see a buck like that, how wide of a net do you cast? Are you gonna go and try to get permission on every piece of property within a mile of it that you know has a good cover on it or something like that, Like, how how much do you try to put in your favoritehead of the season knowing that stuff is gonna change? Or is it? Man, I'm gonna get permission on one piece and that you know, take a fire and see what happens. Well, it seems like this days you're lucky if you can get one spot. I mean, obviously the more of the better, But I've always been a firm believer that I'd rather have the right five acres than the wrong five hundreds. So just because you've got access to you know, you know, two square miles of property doesn't mean that you're going to have that one key spot that you need. So, you know, I've I've always focused my efforts around, you know, sanctuaries where deer can get away from the majority of the hunting pressure and get age on them. And you know that's normally where you're gonna find a really big deer like that as close to some type of sanctuary, whether it's farm it's never been hunted, or you know, city limits where there's no hunting. But you know, that's always in the back of my mind as far as you know a specific area, you know, where where I would think a big buck could get away from uh hunting pressure. You know, if there's a sanctuary close by, that's probably gonna be one of the first things I'm going to look for. And you know, you start knocking on doors and you knock on that one door or where you know we've never let anybody hunt, you know, where we feed the deer. You know, you know it's a safe spot. Even if you can't get permission for that spot, you know, chances are that's going to be a good bet for deer in that area to you know, funnel to once the pressure is on. So just knowing a spot like that and where it's at and maybe having permission adjacent to it or close to it, you know, Um, that's a that's always been a key with me, is finding those little sanctuaries where the deer can get away from the hunting pressure, because it takes four or five six years for a deer to get that big in most places, and they've got to have they got to have a safe spot. So that would probably be the key for me to focus on, is you know, compared to trying to have you know as much permission as I possibly could. I really want, you know, the one key spot, and that would be my first go to what's your what's your angle or I don't know if angles the right word, but like when you walk up to someone's door cold and you knock on that door and they answer, and they look at you, like, what are you doing here? What do you say to these people? Like? How how do you present yourself? How do you how do you how do you have this conversation? Bo? If we all had to answer to that one, it would be a game changer. With the right way to do that. It's not easy, you know, that's getting to be the hardest part of the game anymore. And I've actually kind of laid off of that whole going up and knocking on the door thing. I mean, if I do, you know, try to look look an act presentable, which for me can be a challenged on any given day, but you know, not not look the part, you know, and I'm more than happy to share you know that I'm you know, actually filming, which over the years has helped me. But I think people have kind of called onto that whole thing. But to let people know that I'm just not out there too, you know, kill something, I'm actually out there filming. It has helped um. But like I said, I've kind of gotten away from that whole thing with knocking on doors, and I start off with a letter, you know, handwritten letter to the land owner introducing myself and who I am and where I'm from and what I'm doing, and you know, try to find out if um, you know, they would be interested in having a conversation about hunting. And I've even gone as far as just to ask for permission to photograph first, you know, to get to meet the landowners so that it's it's tough for somebody, you know, I'm a I'm a landowner myself now and somebody comes to knocking on my door, you know, I'm even though I am a hunter and I'm not gonna let anybody hunt here. You just never know the person to do the research. Yeah, and you just people. People want to know who they're dealing with, and that's pretty hard to do the first time, you know, they meet you when you're knocking on their door in the evening during the week as they're eating dinner. So I think the biggest thing is to try to get to know the landowners so they can get to know you a little bit before you start asking for, you know, permission to run all over their farm and shoot their deer. Yeah. Uh, And have you found that that letter works betterly? Do you have a better yes rate now that you're doing the letter versus walk up to the door first thing? Yeah, but it's probably because I'm a little more picky on the spots that I'm trying to get permission then I used to be, you know, So it has hope. So Adam, you've been kind of you're you're pretty known for that strategy of you know, spot a big one, research the landowners and get in there and try to get permission. And you've been doing that a long time. Like how much harder is it now? Like what what's the ratio of nose to yes is these days versus when you started doing this, oh ten, the one. I mean, when I got started, you could get permission anywhere. I mean, it's just not the same game anymore. That's a it's a lot harder now. That's probably conservative, is this could be? Do you? Uh? I'm always curious when I hear I hear somebody like you're talking about, you know, finding these big bucks and seeing them, you know, taking a drive in the evening in August or whenever you see them, and how ever you see them. I mean, are there are there any secrets left when you when you bump into one of those bucks that you're like, I've got to get after this, dear. I just always envisioned that deer being known by so many people because there's so many trail cameras and so much of this information is out there. Do you ever find one that's just a secret? Sure doesn't seem like it, you know, And you're right, there's just so much pressure that probably has a lot to do with, you know, the landowner stuff that we were just talking about as well, because you know, twenty years ago, you know, in Ohio it was you know, it was nothing to drive around in the fields and the evenings of being fields and seed deer out everywhere, and you just can't do that anymore because there's so many people doing it and the pressure is just it's just tenfold what it used to be. So it makes things, it makes things definitely tougher. But I think, and you know, on the flip side of that, it's created a scenario where I think we have a lot more mature, dear, because everybody's doing the most with their property. They're you know, they're letting younger deer grow and managing for trophy, dear. So it's a two edged sword. Yeah, So let me jump in like kind of payback off of that, and let's play out this hypothetical scenario a little bit further into the year than given this new challenge of increased pressure at least increased number of people that are pretty serious about this stuff. So let's say you you saw this giant, you you sent some letters, you had a farmer two where they gave you a yes. Let's say that. Let's say one property give you a yes, and you're excited about it, and you come back and you start your process. And at least from past conversations we've had and past things I've seen you do. A big part of your process is observing these deer from afar, kind of narrowing down what they do when they're gonna do it, And then you wait. You wait for the right time, tim the right moon, the right weather, the right day of the month, and let's say late October arrives and you get the red moon and you've watched this buck coming and out of a bean field, then you move in to kill him. Like if if we're gonna oversimplify and say that that's your usual process, tell me what you would do in the situation where you start doing that. You start observing, You've got some cameras out, and he's there, He's on the property you have permission on, and he's pretty frequently he's in the area, and you're thinking, Okay, he's killable. I just need to wait for the right moment. But then just as you're realizing this, you get winto the fact that there are two other guys who also now have access to the property and they also know about the same buck. How does your approach change with that knowledge, now that there's two other guys going after him in the same place, what do you do different? You know, I think most of the deer, you know that I've been hunting in the last ten year, as I have that scenario pretty much. I don't know where I've been where I was the only person hunting a specific deer, you know, where there was no other pressure around. I mean, it's pretty much a constant, especially here in Ohio. So I've just kind of always been been that guy that would allow other guys to pressure dear and to push him into my area. But I guess if I'm on the same farm with other guys, it really doesn't matter, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna let those guys um make the mistakes and and push the deer, and I want to, you know, stack the deck in my favor as far as the best time to go in and make a move on a deer, you know. You know, if you know there's a big deer on a farm and it's hunting season, I think most guys feel like they have to be hunting. And I'm never gonna advocate for somebody not to be hunting. But there's a difference between hunting scouting observing. You know, if if I've done my homework and I think I know where I need to be to kill a deer. I've done my scouting, maybe I've seen him make a mistake. Now I've I've found that right tree where I need to be. I want to stack the deck in my favor so that the first time I go in. I think everybody would agree, the first time you understand the best time you hunt it. But I want to stack the deck in my favor so that when I go in there, everything is in my favor for that deer to be up and moving. And I think the more times you go into a farm and don't kill that deer, it gets tougher each time. You know, whether we want to admit it or not, that deer is probably either seeing us, smelling us, hearing us. And each time we go in that deer, that deer is getting smarter and smarter just like we think we are, you know, trying to figure them out. So I want to minimize that and maybe let other guys come in, get their routine, let a big deer pattern them, and stay out of my spot until I know everything's perfect, you know. And like I said, I'm gonna scout ten times more than a hunt because I want to do all the legwork to know exactly where I need to be. You know, my scouting is going to tell me where I need to be to kill a big deer. It's the other factors that I pay attention to that let me know when the prime time is to go in and try to kill him. You know, maybe let the other guys burn their spots out, push the deer out of the spots that they're hunting, and hopefully push them in, you know, to my farm. And that's something that happens every year. You know, I'll stay out in my spots until all my factors that I'm looking for a lineup, and let other guys pressure and pushes deer into into my spot, and then when everything's right, slide in and try to kill him. And more times than not, if you if you've got the patience and the persistence to stay out of those spots until everything everything lines up. Most of the time, um, at least for me, it's worked, and I've been able to kill this big deer by doing that. But I think we might have talked about it before, but I think you know, the toughest part of hunting big deer is actually not hunting them until everything's lined up. And then going back to what I said earlier, I'm not going to advocate somebody not hunt, But that doesn't mean that you're not out there in a tree stand observing. Maybe you're not in your kill spot. Maybe you're not in the stand where you think you're gonna kill him, but maybe you're in a tree stand three or four hundred yards away with a spotting scipe watching that area developer, trying to pick up on another little piece of the puzzle. Or maybe you're, you know, on a completely different farm, trying to pick up on a deer or find you get a look at a buck that's spanished. I mean, I'm I'm not gonna be sitting at home on the couch because it's not a good own day or because the weather is not right. I'm always going to be out there at least scouting and observing, but I'm not going to go in and put all that effort into the finding those spots and for're gonna pick buck out and I'm not gonna go in there and try to kill them until everything's in my favor. So I think that's the biggest difference between me and other guys. Let the other guys burn up their spots and push the deer out and let the deer, you know, pick up on what they're doing and pattern them and you know, also wide and when time is right, in the right spot and kill them. Yeah. Now, in our past conversations, we spend a lot of time talking about like what you think those right conditions are that you wait for. But for the sake of those people that maybe didn't hear those, can you just give me the really click quick, like one minute overview of the key things that you're waiting for that they're going to tell you, like, Okay, now is the time to leave the long distance observation stand and going for the kill? Well, yeah, I mean it's the battle is is trying to figure out what a big deer is gonna do before he does it. You know, there are scouting and stand placement and all that. It's, you know, playing that chess match, trying to figure out where you need to be the killing. But before I go in, there's a few things that that I want to have in my favor. And you know, any of these factors can get a big deer up and moving during daylight. You know, everybody, everybody think everybody will agree you know, the weather is probably the most important thing. You know, a great weather pattern, parametric pressure, high pressure, cold front, it's probably you know, you know, the key to everything. Um, a perfect wind direction for the deer you're hunting. You know, that was one of the big things for me to change my success drastically, was when I quit hunting winds that were good for me and I started hunting winds that were good for the deer. I was after. You want to give a mature deer the wind to his advantage so that he feels offerable enough to get up and move before dark. Because nine times out of ten, a big deer that's been around five or six years, he ain't gonna move before dark anyway most of the time. But on those nights that he's gonna move a little bit early, it's usually because a couple of these factors line up, and one of them in particular, is going to be a wind to his you know, to his advantage. So the wind, the weather, and the moon. Um, I've just followed the moon for way too long to disregard it. It's it's a factor that affects the animals, and you know, everybody knows fishermen serious fishermen have followed the moon forever. I've done my own research for the last twenty years, you know, paying attention to it and watching deer, and it affects all dear, and it really affects mature dear because those deer just an't look here in daylight that often. But when I've seen the move, it's happened too many times. They're there, are moving on this red moon. And like I said, any of those three factors can trigger an animal to move during daylight. What I'm looking for is when you get those evenings where two or three of those factors line up, that's when stuff starts getting bloody. You know, when you line up multiple factors, you've got a perfect wind for that deer to feel comfortable enough to get up and move before dark. You throw a great weather pattern on where you've got a cooler temperatures, you've got high bear metric pressure, maybe you had a storm comes through or just blow out. You know, some weather pattern it's gonna increase activity. And then you combine one or two of those on top of one of the evenings where that red moon and the gravitational pool is naturally pushing those deer to get up and feed when they want to normally feed anyway. I mean, that's that's what I'm looking for, and that's what I'm talking about when I'm saying I'm trying to stack the deck in my favor. I want everything, every natural factor to influence that gear to get up a move just a little bit early. Mm hmm. Yes, that kind of drones strike approach. You you put all the pieces together, you narrow down your field of view until you know the best possible to place, and then you wait till the targets right there or at least the absolute best chances of it with all those conditions, and then you take that one surgical strike. Um. I love it when those things line up that way too. Now, Tony, what what do you what do you think? And do you want to press more on this or do you want to pivot to another hypothetical on your end? Because I'm curious what's going on in your head right now? I wanna I want to revisit, go back to the wind direction being right for them, because this is this is something we get asked about a lot too. And I know you know Adam mentioned that when you figured that out, kind of changed his perspective on everything, and I can't. I had a light bulb moment like that years ago with Bucks on on a specific spot on a ridge where the wind there there was one spot to set up, but there's a little juke in the ridge with a kind of a ravine wash out there that just had to take them just outside of like the real comfort zone for traveling with the wind. And that was like the spot on the spot. And I realized when I would see Big Bucks there, it was because the wind was so good for them they were confident to move. But I had one little spot that I could get into a tree where it was also really good for me blowing out over this valley. And I think this is this is kind of a confusing topic for people because if you say the winds perfect for the deer, they think, well, I can't play it then, Like, obviously the advantages there, but this is kind of like a little current seam in a smalley river or something where there might be one little spot somewhere where the wind doesn't give them the advantage. And I kind of want Adam to break that down a little bit more because I think this is such an important thing for deer hunters to really understand. Yeah, it is, and that that that little spot you're talking about, as I call a weak spot. You know, it's a spot where you can actually get within bow range of a deer on his normal travel pattern while he's using the wind to his advantage, but he can't win jo. I mean, most of my spots, you know, my kill spots, if you want to call him Matt, are spots where you know you're virtually splitting hairs with the wind. You know that that wind goes off track, you know, ten or twenty yards one way or the other could be game over. You know, I'm constantly splitting hairs because it's not an easy thing to do or to find where you can get, you know, within bow range of Buckwick when he's actually using that wind. I mean they're masters at that, and it's you know, it really is splitting hairs. And you know, I was Onyx has completely changed the game for me too, because you know, when every time you're going out and looking for those killer win scenarios where you know that Buck is using the wind to his advantage and you know, just ten yards one weather, he could pick you off. You know, you gotta do everything you can do eliminate your scent. And if God, I honestly believe that, if guys aren't taking advantage of what's available out there, especially with those onyx these days, you're missing the boat because it's it was a game changer for me. I I thought it was a gimmick at first. And I mean, I'm carrying enough stuff into the woods between my hunting gear and filming and cameras and camera arms because I filmed myself most of the time, I'm not going to carry something else into the woods. But I don't have to. And if I don't believe that it works, you know, I just don't need to carry something else out with me. And you know, when you're constantly in those situations where you're splitting here is on wind direction, you've gotta you've got to use something like that because you might only get one chance at it. And now throw throw into the equation the other dear that you're going to see before something like that happens. You know, the does and the immature box and everything else, the other animals that you've got to beat before that big one moves um as well. I mean, you just gotta like it goes back to the same thing. You gotta stack the deck in your favor with every possible thing that you can, and that's just another piece of the puzzle. Yeah, yeah, you know you bring up one of my biggest challenges on some of my local Michigan properties where there's a very high deer density, is that I can find these spots where I think the buckham after is going to come through, and where I think I've got that weak spot where the wind will be, you know, right enough for both of us. But there's so many damn does that are going every which way that there's there's almost nowhere I can get to ever where there won't be does going down wind of me. And so it's this, it's it's constantly trying to find some way to avoid that problem where you know, if you get one dough to blow, that's set for the night usually or in many cases, so how have you dealt with that? Meant that makes finding those um those weak spots that much more important, you know, like Coney was talking about, he's found that one little spot where you know, it's it's the winds good for the deer, but they can't win him and you know, you find I find it in some of the weirdest places. I'll never forget. I'd know this older gentleman that's you know, been hunting longer than I've been alive, and he told me one time, he said, Adam, if you've gone more than a hundred yards from your truck, you probably went too far. And that has proven right every year. And you know, with with big deer, they find these out of the way spots that you just wouldn't think about. And sometimes it's you know, it's close to buildings, are close to a road, or just just different spots that most guys wouldn't pay attention to. But it creates scenarios where you can use you know, I can't tell you how many times I walked right down the road and then just jumped right into a tree right off the road. You know, you know, obviously paying attention to how far you've got to be off the road when you're hunting, but spots that you're able to access without tipping off any any of the you know, deer in the area, and then having the wind, your wind blowing out into a spot that deer just can't get down wind of you. I mean, you really sometimes you really got to put some thought and effort into finding those spots. But you gotta find those spots where you know, they just they can't get your wind. They just can't no matter what they do. And especially in a high dear tonsit area like you're talking about, you know, back yourself up to a cliff or a road or freeway or housing development. I mean, I just got to think outside the box. I'm kind of to find those spots, but they're out there. They are not easy to find. But you know, it happens a lot of times where a deer has gotta make a turn in his travel route or in an area that he's forced to go through. You know, maybe it's some type of spot where there's a you know, down fence or where a fence stops, or you know deep ravines, um deep water. I mean, just anything that's going to force a deer through an area where he might have to drop his guard briefly, you know. And I've I've found those spots where you you can't beat the spot and you can't beat the wind. But by the time that buck is into my wind, he should already have an are you know, he's blowing directly at the spot where I know I need to kill him. So you know, by the time he gets my wind which directly down winded me, it should be too late. I should already have a hero in him. So it's I've taken it to that extreme before, just because there was no other way around it. Yeah, and then just hoping pray that it's not the two year old buck that shows up and walks through their first and blows everything up right. M hm, So so what about this? Then let's let's take that and apply it to a situation that Tony and I actually were looking at and talking about this spring when we were out doing some scouting in Iowa. And and let's say you have got a buck you want to shoot, and we're in I don't know, late October, and you have watched him, You've caught sight of him a couple of times, finally stepping out in the back corner of this field. It's October, and then for whatever reason he couldn't hunt the next day or watching it, he does it again. But as you look at the a spot through your bindose, and you've looked at the map, this back corner of the field is basically like the inside corner of the beginning of like a deep cut almost there's steep ridges that blow up that come up on either side. So it's basically at the bottom of a valley, and there's this risk of swirling winds and and and everything that could come with being at the bottom of a narrow ravine of sorts. What do you do in that situation when you go in there and you're facing what many people would assume would be a dangerous wind situation. Do you say, he was moving here two days in a row in daylight, I gotta just take a swing for the fences and try. Or do you go in there and you realize, like, Okay, there's no way this will work with my wind. I'm not gonna hunt it because it's not worth risking him winding me. What do you do in that situation? Or what are you thinking about? Is you try to find a solution. I'll tell you what, man, things things change so frequently during season that I think there's a point in time where you just got to be aggressive, you know, And I think I probably learned that from you know, the most aggressive hunter I've ever met in my life, Andre Dquisto, that the guy didn't have been a lone wolf tree stands. He's the most aggressive hunting guy that I've ever met. And now I learned a lot from the time I spent with with him hunting and filming. And you know, I don't consider myself to be an aggressive hunter, but there's certain situations. You know, you see it. They're making a mistake once, you know, shame on him. You watch him do it twice, Shame on you. Now you've got there's a point in time where you gotta put a stand on your back and dive in and try to get it done. And I've I killed one of my biggest dear ever doing that exact same thing. You know, that was a back corner of the field. Um, I watched and come out. You know, the night before I knew I had to be in there. I didn't have the perfect wind direction. I actually had to walk in there with the wind at my back, but my wind was blowing straight down um the fence line that he was gonna be crossing, instead of blowing back into the back into the CRP. And you know, hung a stand and watch that deer get up at right before dark, at eighty yards away and you know, killed a two hundred and eight engineer that night, and didn't really know anything about the property other than the fact that that buck came out of there the night before, and I knew I had to be there the next night. But that corn had just come down and he was pushing a couple of goas around. I knew I had to be in there. So, I mean, you're talking about a situation was swirling winds. You know, I'm I'm gonna do everything I can to be as sent free as possible. You know, I think using the nose onics in that situation is going to help tremendously. I had kind of that same sence scenario I found myself in a couple of years ago on an elk hunt. You know, we were hearing this bull scream in the afternoon, and we kept getting closer and closer and closer, and he was up on this ridge and closer we got, we got right to the edge of where you know, two hills came down into this field and we were right up against it, and I just felt like it was one of those deals where my wind was swirling, and even though I was where I thought I needed to be, I knew if if that bull came down through there, that chances are he is going to pick us off. So we just backed up a hundred yards towards you know, the wind wasn't swirling as much, and ended up shooting that bull later that evening, you know, because he came out into that pasture and started chasing cows around. And if if if I would have stayed right there, it was a wild because we right where we were standing, right where all the cow showed up, and they milled around those trees where we were at for half hour, and there's no way that they would not have picked us off right there if we just stayed right there. But I just knew it was not I was not in a good situation and backed up hunder yards and ended up working out. Maybe that's the scenario, is you know where he's coming out at. Do you know where he's going? You know, is he's just gonna come out in the middle of that field and feed. Is there a water source he's heading to? Maybe backing up a little bit to where you think that deer might be going or what direction instead of being right on top of him where you're sawing, Maybe you need to back up a little bit and think in your head, where's that deer gonna end up going? Or maybe you back up a little bit and you stick a decoy out to try to get him out of that corner where the winds, you know, swirling and not in your in your benefit. I mean, you know, sometimes you got do stuff on the cuff, you know, and and and react to a situation. And you know, it's great to be mobile and have the opportunity to bounce around a little bit ter go in and do a hanging hunt and pick a tree. But just because you see a big deer do something one specific area is I mean, you have to be right in that spot to kill him. And you know, if you've got a bad win situation, there's only so many things you can do to control your scent, and maybe you just need to think a couple of steps beyond that. You know, like I said, where that deer is gonna end up, where he's gonna go, what you could do to pull him in a different direction. Yeah, that's a great point. That's a really good point. Uh, Tony. The next pitch is yours? Where do you want to take it? Oh? Man, um, I have a hard time moving on from some of this stuff. But if you really want me to, I will if you want to. If you want to, if you want to keep drilling in on this scenario, you can. Um I want you to take take us wherever your whims are pointing to me. Well, so with with Adam, with what you just said there, I kind of want to expand on that, because it's there. There is all these different strategies, and you've talked about, you know, being mobile, observing a ton, waiting for the right conditions, and then also bringing up Andre and moving in quick on him. But what you're what you're really kind of saying, I think with a lot of this stuff, is that scenario you just describe there. You know, you see one night, you see the your target buck. He gets up, he hops offense, he goes in the field here, and you go tomorrow, I've got to be there. But then you you qualify that by saying, well, but if the wind is right and the conditions are right, and you've got to think about what he's doing. And I think I think that's where we we kind of lose ourselves a lot of times as we get sort of star struck we see this buck do something. We go he walked right by that tree, I have to be there, and we force it without thinking about where did he come from, where's he going, and and trying to just factor in as much of the data as we can to make a decision and go, Okay, if I can't be there, what's what's the next best scenario instead of just kind of talking ourselves into hunting the wrong spot. I mean, I think I hear from hunters who who kind of fall for that a lot, and it's really important to have that extra information. Anything you can get to do that back up a hundred yards or move down here, or get on that pond he's going to. It's it's a it's a thin line between being aggressive and you know, being smart and trying to you know, sometimes you're just rolling the dice, you know, um And one thing is for sure when it comes to hunting big gear, nothing has ever you know, definite. I mean, it's just things are just changing constantly and you've got to be able to adapt to that situation and make make your best call. So you know, if the winds bad, do you do you roll the dice? Do you stay out of the area, Maybe observe it and see what he's doing. I mean, you know, it depends on what the you know, what the situation is. Are you early October where that deer is still going to be on a strict feeding pattern for you know, two or three more weeks or is it, you know, the first week in November, and chances are you know, he's gonna be on the dough in the next few days and you're not gonna see him again. I mean, there's just so many things you've got to take into consideration. And yeah, I think that the one thing that a lot of guys need to do more of in that situation is really just step back and use your brain and think about it. You know, think about all the factors, and you know, at the end of the day, you got to make a calculated guests on what you're gonna do. So I mean, I don't think there's any right or wrong answer, but I just like to try to gather as much information because I can about it, try to make an educated guests and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But a lot of that, a lot of that comes from you know, spending forty years Jason Dear. You know, yeah, there's there's a big confidence factor there as far as you know, trust in your gut on whether to move in or stay out. What about this? What about a situation We've talked a bunch of here about what happens when you see a buck and you see him do something, and then you're gonna make a play on him based on what you saw. What about the situation where you can't see him. So let's say you had a buck that you know, identified on a property that you were interested in targeting, and then he shows up a time or two on trail camera. You know, in September, so you know that he's still in the still alive, and still somewhere in the general area. But now you know it's it's early October. You still have a strong idea of where he is or what he's doing. It's mid October. I still don't know where he really is. It's not obvious where his core areas. He just shows up every once in a while, randomly on a camera here, a camera there. Now it's late October, it's the last ten days of October. It's your favorite time of year to kill a specific buck, and this is the buck you want. You still can't pin him down, and you've glassed from the road, You've said observation stands, and it's just this occasional random picture here, occasional random picture there. And now it's almost the rut. And when the rut hits, of course, the deck gets reshuffled again too. What do you do now to try to zero in on this deer? It's it's it's October and of October and it's about to get crazy. What are you gonna do to try to find this buck? Or or do you just say, hey, this is a buck that's not living on me. I'm going to move on to something else. I think the worst thing you can do is spen too much time in the wrong area. You know, if you know he's if you know of a big deer and you can't find him, you gotta find him, you know. That was that That was another thing I learned, you know, spending time with Andre is you've got to be on the freshest sign and find those deer because if if you're in the wrong spot, you're not doing yourself any favors. And sometimes it's a matter of putting a stand on and sticks on your back and burning a little shoe leather and and go and find them. And you know, Andre made a career out of doing that and and bumping big deer out of their beds and killing them, you know, the very next day, because you know he would he would always have the wind in his face so that a big deer, if he did bump a big deer, it wouldn't smell him. He didn't necessarily care for a big deer sawing, but he didn't want a big deer smelling. And he'd bump a big gear out of his bed, he'd have to stand on his back and immediately hang that stand. Because his whole theory was he would want to be there the very next time that deer came back into his bed. Most guys jump a big deer there, I'm gonna necessary cool off for a few days, come back and hang a stand and let it cool off for a few more days, and they end up hunting a week or two later, and by then that dear has come back smelled that you were there, and chances are he's never going to be back. Andre wanted to be there the very first time that dere came back, whether it was the next day or the second or third day, he'd sit there and wait for the deer to come back and be there the very first time that buck came back to bed in that area and killed a lot of giant deer doing that. And you know it, a big deer is leaving signed behind at that time of the year, especially with scrapes and giant rubs, And that's the first that's probably the first thing that I'm going to look for. If I can't find a deer on afters I'm gonna be looking for those giant rubs because they're leaving signed behind somewhere. You know, you might you might want to start on the field edges. I mean, the betting areas is probably gonna be the last place I'm gonna look. You know, look, because I really don't want to bust a big deer out of his bed. But you know what's the worst thing that can happen. You find him and jump him out of his bed. Well, you didn't know where it was to begin with, you know, so the least you know where he was and get an idea of what he's doing. I mean, I just I'm not one of those guys that's just gonna sit there and just wait and hope that that big deer eventually shows up. You gotta get out there and find it. Dear, I mean, season only lasts for so long and wants the rut rolls around. He never know what they're gonna be doing, and you know who's hunting them, and if they're they end up getting shot. I mean, you gotta you gotta do everything you can to find those deer at that time of the year. And if you don't know where he's at, you better find him because body else is probably going to. So when you're doing that specific thing which you just described, which is you've got to stand on your back and your burn boot leather until you find something that tells you, oh yeah, this could be it. You mentioned big rubs and scrapes. What's like the threshold for you to say, oh yeah, this is it versus oh yeah, this is a random big rub. You know, if you you find that first big rub and scrape and some good cover, do you say, Okay, that's enough or do you need to see one, two, three, four, five of these all tight together next to really great cover and it's steaming and there's piss still in the scrape, Like what level of hot big buck sign do you need to see to tell yourself that this is this is it, this is where he is. I'm looking for multiple big rubs. I mean when you start walking trails and field edges and you start finding rubs and scrapes, and you're starting to find trees as big as your leg that you know, every you know forward your fifty yards that are rubbed, you know, and you know there's a big one you know working, you know, working that trail. I mean, that's really what I'm looking for. You know, it's always great to find a big rub, but when you're finding multiple rubs, or you get into a uh, you know, a bedding area situation where there's a bunch of big rubs and small rubs in an area that looks like a big deer spending a bunch of time, you know, you're probably pretty close to his core area, you know, and you just start reading the sign. I mean, you find a trail that's got giant rubs on it. I mean, you can tell what direction that deer is walking when he made those rubs, and if he's making those rubs going back into his bedding area in the morning or making him in the evenings, coming from his bedding area. I mean, it's just really about reading that sign and trying to figure out, you know, what he's doing. But when I'm finding multiple, you know, big rubs in a in an area like that, that's really what I'm looking for. Okay, Now, how in this again, this scenario of late October, your target bucks a ghost and very random, and you're trying to tighten in on where he's at specifically, how do trail cameras, if at all, play into this now? I mean we've talked about observing and scouting on foot. Are you doing anything unique with your cameras at this point to try to pick him up? To I use a lot of cellular cameras just so I'm not going in and out of these spots to check them, especially during season. I mean, the information you can get from a cell camera during season is worth its weight in gold. So I yeah, I actually run more cellular cameras during season than I do regular cameras, just so that I can get that real time information, you know. And if if I find an area that I think a big deer is using, I'm gonna have a cell camera on that road line or scrape line to you know, to get that information instantly instead of waiting a week and going back and checking it. I want to know right now, if that's where that deer is at, what kind of places are you placing putting those cameras? Is this? Is it random at first? And then you take one of those he shows up once, and then do you grab all of them and then zero them in on that area or do you keep it widely dispersed. Your camera's widely dispersed to observe like all the different places is going. I'm just curious if you if you adjust and slowly get tighter and tighter and tighter in him or or not. I'll tell you what, man, I think these big deer these days are picking up on these cameras and men, it seems like every week I talked to somebody else that's got a story about how they got to pick one picture of a big deer and then they never got it again. Or they've set up multiple cameras, you know, a camera on another camera to see how the deer are reacting to it and watching these big gears skirt these cameras and walking around them, or get their picture once and then then they never go by that camera again. So it's one thing to set a camera up on a scrape or a red line and you know something that's gonna stop that deer in its tracks and get a good picture of him. It's another thing to set a camera up, you know, on video mode, to cover a little bit of a wider area, maybe because you don't know what's coming through there, exactly where is it coming through, just to pick up on the action that you know that um, you might not know exactly what they're doing. So it just depends on the situation. But I'm gonna I'm gonna usually put four or five cameras in the spot if I think there's a big deer moving through there and I'm trying to figure out what try to figure out what he's doing. All very rarely just having one camera for a specific deer. Okay, all right, all right, Uh here's here's a strong pivot, hard pivot from like picking the right location or locating a deer to actually a scenario of what you would do in a tree. So let's say we are now into November and you've been trying to find this buck out but I haven't killed him yet. You're up there you finally see him. You're in this tree November one and you're hunting, I don't know, back near a dough betting area and this buck shows up. First time. You finally are in a tree and you see this buck you've been trying to kill all year long. But he is out of range. He's cruising across at about sixty yards, and he's not walking away from you. He's not walking towards you. He's kind of walking parallel to you. And at the moment, he's not down wind. But if he continues on his current trajectory, and if he gets another hundred yards or so, he will hit your wind. What do you do in that situation? Do you call to a buck like that and the situation? Do you do nothing and just waiting, wait and see what's gonna happen. Hope becomes closer and I won't kick your wind or would you say he's heading in my wind. I don't want to grunt and have him go closer to down wind. I need to take the shot now at sixty What do you what do you do then? M I killed him at sixty yards. I practice, I practice, I practice out to seventy yards all summer long, mainly for l cutting. But I've killed two or three deer at sixty plus yards. And yeah, with with the equipment and the technology available to hunters these days, if you're not able to kill a deer sixty yards, that you've got nobody to blame but yourself. Honestly, I mean, I'm probably the worst shot of anybody that I know. I got the akiest hands in the world. If I can kill a six deer or sixty yards anybody, it's just a matter of practice and knowing your equipment and you know, getting dialed in and and you know, practice, practice, practice. But the thing about it, think about shooting distances. It's great to be able to shoot something at sixty or seventy yards, and you know, I'm sure one of these days I won't be able to do it anymore. But as long as I can do it accurately, I'm gonna keep doing it. But practice in at sixty and seventy yards every night makes your close shots a no brainer. I mean, I don't even think twice about my twenty thirty forty yards shots anymore. I mean, it's it's I hate to say chip shot and knock on wood right now. But it really makes your closer shots just second nature. You know, when you practice at those distances, it just changes the game for you with with your closer shots. I really believe that it's that's what it's done it from. Are there any situations in which you wouldn't take the sixty yard shot? Like, if it it was raining, would you take the sixty yard shot? If it was wind would you take the sixty If that buck was on edge because he kind of knew something was going on, would you still take that shot? What about those edge situations and the winds probably the big one. I mean, least they want to do is make a bad shot and a big animal. So normally when it's it's that, Wendy, I'm not gonna be taking any any long distance shots. But a couple of the deer that I've shot at that distance, you know, I've had to grunt to stop those animals because you definitely don't want to shoot a moving target at that distance. So those animals have been on alert because they heard something because I stopped them. And I think when you're a little further away like that, m h, I think maybe the reaction might be a little bit slower than if you're right on top of them. So I just haven't seen deer react to my bow at that distance like I have, you know, being closer to him. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so, just because there the sound isn't reaching in the same so quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it might be a little less apt to you know, immediately jump the string because you're a little further than that the sound. You know, the sound isn't right on top of him. So usually aim just a little bit lower on a far shot like that anyway, to allow for a little bit of a reaction from a deer. But yeah, I want to be prepared to take a six year, seventy year a shot at a deer if the situation presents itself. I wanna I'm gonna play this scenario out in a worst case way, which I know you're gonna practice and you're gonna do everything you possibly can so that the worst case scenario doesn't happen. But as at least as my history is indicated, and I think most ever, once in a while, worst case scenarios do pop up, and I'm curious to hear how you handle that kind of situation. And I I know you've been in this situation. I know you had this exact same thing happened, So I'd love to understand how you would handle it today. And this situation is this. Let's say you have that buck at sixty yards. It seems perfect, it seems ideal. You take the shot, but that buck moves or something happens and you hit him and you never find him. What do you do? Well? How do you handle that mentally? How do you handle it practically? Like do you do you need to take a couple of days off and get your head right or do you go back out the very next morning hunting again? Uh? What goes through your mind and your heart and your soul and your process to recover from that situation? Who? Man, failure is part of bow hunting. I mean, you bow hunt long enough, It's going to happen sooner or later. It's just part of the game. And I'm I believe a hundred percent that you know, in life it is ten percent stuff that happens to you and how you deal with it. And that that might be my age talking, you know, but I think I've I've learned anything. You know, just about everything in life is a mental game, you know, and it's how you deal with it. And you know, I watched a good friend of mine two seasons ago in Kansas said to the world class dear he was hunting, you know, hundred deer, and within a matter of two weeks, both of those deer lost half the racks. How many guys is that can happen to two world class animals? You lose them both in two weeks and in October, most guys are just gonna be in the corner in the fetal position, crying about it. But I mean, you know, he kept running his cameras and kept playing the game, and you know, in less than two weeks, the biggest deer of his life that he'd never seen before shows up on camera and he ended up killing that deer. Um end of the season and his best season ever. You know, the dealing with the highs and lows of bohneam and you go from one extreme to the next in a matter of hours or days. But one thing is for sure. You know, if you experience a little failure, you you hit a buck and lose them, or the deer you've been watching for five years it gets killed by the neighbor. You know, it doesn't matter what the scenario is, but one thing is for sure. If you quit and give up, nothing positive is going to happen from it. You know, if you don't go hunt and nothing positive is gonna happen, happened, You've got you just got to realize that it's part of the game. You gotta roll with the punches and and know that you know, things could change in a matter of hours. So I mean, you just it's just all about being positive and just knowing. You know from the get gode that you know, if you both want long enough, it's gonna happen. And there's there's a lot of people that talk about success being built on failure, and you know, the more more you try something and the more you fail out fail at it, it's just you're that much closer to achieving your goaling being successful. So yeah, I guess you gotta put it in a perspective and just realize that, you know, at the end of the day, just about any type of success you're gonna have, is it going to be built on multiple failures. So yeah, you basically got three options. You know, you can you can quit if you fail, you can keep going and keep doing the same things and not learn from the experience and probably keep getting the same results. Or you can you know, think about what happened, adapt to it, change it and try it in. Yeah, it's truly, that's simple. Yeah, that's simple. And and that hard though too, right. It's it's one of those things that is easy to say, yeah, yeah, oh, and it's that's tough when you Yeah, we all put so much effort into hunting and you know, chasing these deer and scouting and practice. So I means for most guys it's you know, year round three and m sixty five days, and then you add the emotion into it and how tore up we all get about it. And then you know, to have the rug pulled out from underneath you and lose a dear, you know, the e h D or another hunter. Just it can take the wind out of your sales, that's for sure. But he said, man, it's it's the highs and lows of bow hunting. I think that's why we all love it so much, you know, because you just never know what's going to happen, and you know, any amount of failures it just makes that those successes that much sweeter. There's just nothing else like it. So yeah, yeah, stick with it, man, just gotta stick with it. Yes, that's uh, that's the name of the game. That's that's for certain. So it's Tony. I want you to take take the wheel here. Paint a doozy of a scenario for Adam. Take us, Take us somewhere else, because I don't want to linger on the real downer of deer hunting right now. Take us somewhere better. I've I've got a good one for this. I think you know so. Way earlier in the conversation, Adam, you mentioned using, you know, maybe hunters on the neighboring farm or the neighboring properties to your advantage and waiting for those folks to put some pressure on the deer and position them for you. But let's say just let's let's say it's October tenth, October twelve, something like that. You've you've had this buck scouted out. You know, he lives in a certain property, and everything lines up, the moon lines up, the wind lines up. You're like, I'm going in there, this is the night I kill him. As you're walking in, you see a trail camera that's not yours. You get a little farther down the fence line, you look and there's a there's a brand new ladder stand there. And so you text the landowner and he says, oh, yeah, by the way, I let my nephew hunting there. He likes to bow hunt a little bit. How does that change your plans? What? What's your next steps there? You guys aren't gonna give me any softball here area, Nope. So I got a new hunter to deal with all my property. That's a that's a tough one, tough one because you never know what's what another guy is thinking. I mean, and I've had that exact same thing happened to me, you know, sitting in a tree stand and here comes, here comes three hunters across the farm that I've had permission by myself for the last, you know, so many years to hunt, and landowner decided to give his buddies at church and their grandson permission to hunt. And all of a sudden, I've gone to having a you know, three acre farm AULTI myself too. Now there's four of us, you know, and they're walking in put the wind at their back, and you know, brand new ladder stand hanging fifty yards from my hang on. And I mean, you talk about a hunter's worst nightmare, especially when you're on a big deer and you've been scouting all year long, and that's enough to ruin your day. M hmm. But I think it kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier, you know, letting, letting other guys make the mistakes and pressure the deer and focusing on, you know, the few factors that are really going to get deer up and moving. I mean, there's only so much you know, we can do as hunters, you know, specially in a situation like that. I mean, what, you know, what really can you do other than to just keep hunting smart and hard. And you know, if I've learned anything over the years, you never want to put all your eggs in one basket because you know you can have that situation happen where you could you know, that deer that you're chasing gets whacked by a car, you know, and he's laying out on the road when you pull up to the farm. I mean, so many different things that can happen. You put all your eggs in one basket. You've got to have them. You know, a plan being a plan. See, I like to have at least two or three different deer every season that I'm focusing on and you know, I want a hunt. It's not always the case, but um, you know, from year to year hunting specific deer. You know, out of the ten things that could happen, nine of them are bad, and you have to plan for that. Just like anything else, you gotta you gotta plan for the good and and for the bad. So it always helps to have a backup plan and back up farms and back up dear And yeah, like I said, there's only there's only so many things that we can do, so you know, try to focus on focus on what you know. And you know, if you've got other guys hunting your farm, when aren't they hunting? You know, are these guys that are only hunting on the weekends. Are the guys that are only hunting in the evenings. You know, a lot of guys don't have the ability that I have, you know, to hunt pretty much every day of the week. So maybe you got to focus on your morning hunts because they're not pressuring the deer of the mornings. You know, if you've got a guy you know, it's only hunting on the weekends or the evenings. You gotta hunt when he's not there, YEA, figure out what he's doing. And because I guarantee if there's a mature deer, he's probably mature deer on the farm. And the guy's not hunting smart the buck they're after, he's probably figuring out what this guy is doing and patterning him. So you gotta take all that into consideration and adjust accordingly. So so in that situation, do you try to get to know as much about those other hunters as you can so you can use that to your advantage. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, you got to get to know them, just like the deer that you're hunting, because chances are when I'm hunting a farm and somebody else moves in, they don't know what I know. They're not doing what I'm doing. They haven't spent the time scouting that I have. You know, I got a really good idea of what the deer is doing and where I need to be. And yeah, it's more intel that you can get from, you know, the the guy that's hunting the farm now and what he's doing and how that's gonna affect the deer that you're after. I think a lot of guys think, you know, spook a deer, That deer is gonna leave the county, you know, go completely nocturnal, never see him again nine times out of end. That's just not the case. A deer is just gonna just his behavior accordingly, and you have to do the same. What about during the rut? We talked a lot of here in October, We've talked about like late October, we've talked about these different ways that you're trans zero in on a deer and adjust to other hunters pressure and figure out how these deer reacting to that and what they're doing. But when you throw in the variable of of hot does it kind of reshuffles everything? And with you being someone who's typically focused on on a buck or two bucks or whatever. Uh, I gotta believe that the rut can be maybe frustrating at least in certain ways because they become slightly less predictable. Um So, so let's drill down one more time on how you would adjust to that variable with one target buck here after and we've had all these things happen, Let's let's add all of these things up. Let's say you you you had this situation where you spotted him, you try to kill him in late October. There was other hunters in there with their tree stands. You try to go in, and there was this tough wind situation on another night when you saw him and you couldn't kill him there, and you you set up down when the ways of the decoy and try to get him come your way. That didn't happen. All this stuff hasn't worked out. Now it's November. You are out there and there are hot doors and there are bucks chasing, and you're thinking yourself, what am I going to do to zero in this book now? Because he's not doing anything at all like what he was doing previously. Do you have any ways that you try to zero in on them other than just seeing or getting pictures of them? Or at this point do you say, Okay, I'm not going to obsess over his pattern because he didn't have one. I'm instead just gonna hunt the does like any other rut hunt, and just wait until the one buck I like comes through and does the thing? What what? Then? You know I kind of changed my approach to the rut probably ten fifteen years ago, you know, obviously, I'm trying to focus on specific dear you know, every year, and I've been doing that for decades, and you know, November is the worst time of the year to do that because they're the least predictable. They're not on any kind of pattern in November. You never know where they are, what they're gonna be doing, and how in the world do you know, you know, unless you're out there every day, you know what what the phase of the rud is. You know, are they chasing, they seeking? They locked down the pre rut post rut. I mean, when I just throw all that stuff out the window, it quit trying to figure all that stuff out and just focused on daylight activity, you know, because at the end of the day, you're not going to kill a big deer unless he's up moving during daylight. And I'm a firm believer that there are certain times every day when deer are going to be more active, and that doesn't matter if it's October or November. But I will pay more attention to those activity times in November during the day. You know. Obviously, if I'm hunting earlier late season, when dear on a street feeding pattern, I'm going to focus on you know, there's mornings and evenings when that uh pull of the moon on top of the weather and wind is affecting animals to move a little bit earlier, a little bit later. Been in November, there are certain days where you've got your peak activity times are going to be hitting during the middle of the day. And whenever that peak activity time hits during the day, that's when I want to be in the woods. There's there's days in November that all completely abandoned my typical morning and evening sets and just hunt from ten to two, or maybe sit all day, or go in in the morning and hunt until two or three in the afternoon, and then maybe get out and and change my location. But just really focusing on daylight activity and when I think this deer are going to be up and moving during day, the daylight and the just where I'm hunting accordingly. I mean, if you're hunting mid day in November, you don't necessarily want to be out on the edge of a food source. You know, you want to be back in the timber, you know, down window the betting areas, or in a funnel or corridor in between betting areas catching bucks. Traveling, but really just completely threw everything out the window that I'd ever learned or read about the rut and just strictly focusing on daylight activity because if the doose are up moving, the bucks are going to be up moving, and you know, dear have got to be up moving in order for you for you to kill him. So what what that's my approach? What situation would you prefer? Would you prefer? If you had to pick, I'm gonna give you two options, and you're only allowed to pick one of these days in the rut. One is November one, November six on November and this isn't gonna be quite right because of how the moon works, but just humor me where I'm staying. One of these days, you're gonna get a cold front. It's nice and cold, it's November, and you've got that like twenty degree crisp morning. You can hunt that day. But the moon is not right at all. It's not a red moon. It's it's whatever the opposite of the red moon is, whatever you wanna call that. It's it's the worst moon position for daylight buck activity. That's option A. Option B is there's another day in November. You can hunt, and you're gonna have a red moon. You're gonna have that over overhead moon in the day, in the daylight towards the edge, and it should be dynamite from that perspective. It's November, but we're in the middle of a warm front and there's like sixty degrees seventy degrees on that day where you have the good moon. Would you rather take the hot day with a good moon or the bad moon with the nice cold temperatures? Which dare you can hunt? It's a good question. I'll give you another scenario. So I'm in Kansas. I'm hunting at two plus inch deer. I scheduled my trip to coincide with the red Moon. I know that the red moon is gonna hit towards the end of the week, so it's gonna get better and better and better each day of the week. But when I get there, it's even hotter than predicted. You know, it's degrees all week, first week in November. Not good conditions for dear to be moving during daylight. Dear aren't moving during daylight pretty much. I killed the biggest deer of my life on the red moon in the evening when it was eighty degrees that day, and I knew that if I was gonna get a chance to kill that dear, it was gonna be towards the end of the week. So I focused, just focused, mainly on the evenings around the water sources, and she ended up shooting that dear hour and a half before dark, when it's eighty degrees out. No no rhyme or reason to why that big, mature dear should be up moving in that heat. I don't know how else to explain it other than the fact that you know, the red moon hit, you know, at the end of the week, sat there for eight or nine days and hard to sell anything moving at all, And that deer got up almost two hours before dark. It was up moving, trolling for does and that heat and just no other explanation for it. So I'm not I'm not a I'm not gonna sit here and say that you should be hunting warmer weather, But I mean when you've got good conditions. Because additions that I'm looking for a perfect wind, perfect moon, and maybe you know the weather is not optimal. But I've got two of the three factors that I'm looking for. I'm going to be there regardless if it's seventy or eighty five degrees, And like I said, he killed the biggest deer of my life. But if you want to know what what conditions I think are perfect and that I've had my best luck in November, if I wanted to create the best scenario as far as all that stuff goes, when you have a overhead or underfoot moon peeking after daylight in the morning, say it's getting daylight at seven o'clock in the morning and that moon is peaking at eight nine ten o'clock, I've seen more big deer movement and killed more big deer in November on those late morning hunts, because when that moon peaks after daylight, those deer are going to be moving a little bit later in the morning, you know, in the rut if they're with the dough, following those dose back into the bedding areas or searching for that next dough coming into heat. It seems like those cooler mornings, when you've got a moon peeking after daylight, you've got better activity the lasting later in the morning just hands down. If I was going to pick a time I would want, that's what I would be looking for as a as a moon that peaks late morning, it seems like the activity lasts longer in the morning, seems to you know, be prolonged out through midday. Two. You need to get into your stand before daylight and just plan on sitting, you know, till two or three in the afternoon. But that's when I've seen the most big buck activity in November. You know, it's not your typical red moon evening edge of the food sources. Those mornings when the moon's peaking late, hands down been my best best days in November. You know, it sounds like a good time to being the tree. It's got me November. Uh, Tony, do you have any final scenario you want to play out here because you've got your last last question here and then I want to move to the rapid fire round of this situation. Yeah, I just I have just one thing I'm curious about. So Adam, everything that you've you've kind of said in this so far, and everything you're you're known for, is you know, finding a target buck, locking onto that sucker and just seeing what you can do, and even more like finding three of them so you have those backup dear, Is there ever a scenario in any given fall where you just go into the woods somewhere and you hunt, not knowing what's in there, and just decided to sit in a tree and a spot you think is good, hope something comes by, or is that never happened for you? You know, it's for me, the whole thing in the fall is hunting a specific animal and playing the game with that deer and trying to figure him out. I mean, if somebody said, you know, you go climbing this tree and at eight o'clock, you know this giant deer is going to come from this direction, you have a thirty yard shot, and just put me on the deer. I mean, that just doesn't do anything for me, And it doesn't do anything for me personally to just go and sit in the woods and just hope something strolls by. I mean, I just I guess it probably comes from you know, chasing specific gear for over thirty years. That that's really what it's all about for me, And that's what I get the most enjoyment of it, from his trying to figure out a big deer and what he's doing and that cat and mouse game. So yeah, yeah, there's occasion where I'll go and climbing a tree stand out behind my house and just enjoy it. But it's just not the same for me if I'm not after a specific animal. So yeah, I enjoy the woods as much as the next guy. But if I'm not after a specific buck and trying to figure them out, just that's not what it's about for me anymore. So I just don't enjoy that just going out and sitting and hoping a big deer comes by. It just seems like a waste of time for me. You know, seasons so short and to come and go and get your really get to appreciate, you know, the opportunity more and more the older I get, and I want to I want to be um, you know, I want to be in the game with a big deer and really the whole one on one. So it's not saying that's for everybody and not saying, you know, guys that aren't into that, it's wrong, and I'm right, it's just that's that's what it's all about me. So all right, I can't I can't not get in it. Yeah, yeah, I'm just curious. There's something about that one on one thing I can certainly relate to that no doubt about that. So nothing like figuring out a big deer, and it just really isn't there. Just you're really an amazing animal. And when you can beat an animal like that at his game on his turf, I mean, they're just so rewarding to do that, and you know, trying to figure out what they're gonna do before they ever do it. That's just what it's all about. It's pretty cool thing. So the next phase here, Adam, the final wrap up here is we're gonna have a series of kind of rapid fire questions that I'm gonna give them to you fast, and you've just got one word answer. You just you can't explain it. You just have to give me the one one option yes or no or this or that. We basically asked the same questions to everyone, so I kind of already know you're answered a few of these, but we're still going to run you through it. Anyways. We'll get through this real quick and then we'll wrap things up, all right. Mhm. All right, and Tony, I'm I'm just gonna steal a couple of your questions you added to my list too, all right, all right, So Adam, here we go with the rapid fire and this first one, man, you better get this one right. Does the moon matter to dear movement? Yes? Or no? Yes? Would you take a fifty yard shot at a white tail with your bow? Yes? If you could only have one of these tools for the rest of your hunts, would you choose a set of rattling anislers or grunt tube as expandable or fixed blade broadheads. Let's explade. Should you stop a buck with a sound before shooting? Yes or no? Yes? If you could only pick one season to scout one of these three seasons, which would you pick? Winter, summer or in season winter? Which state has the better hunters Michigan, Ohio or Minnesota? Of course? Uh in in Michigan, we don't say Io. After that we say two different letters, but uh uh So, okay, you passed the rapid fire. Got one final doozy for you. And here's the situation, Adam. Let's say that I am the all powerful ruler of the world, and I have control over your right to hunt. And I'm gonna tell you, Adam, that you cannot hunt at all for the next ten years. You're done, no hunting license, no ability to hunt for ten years unless unless you kill a six year old buck this year. You have to kill a six year old just mega giant buck this year, and you only have one day to do it. You get to pick one day, and you only get to hunt one location. So what I want to know is, with this very high stakes on this hunt, what's the one date of the year you're gonna pick. Tell me the date you're gonna pick, and then describe to me in as much detail as you possibly can, this one best possible location you can think of to kill a six year old mega giant that your next ten years depends on. How do you guys come up with the stuff? Just too much time on my hands at him? Uh huh. You guys had a little meeting last night on how to stump out that's all I've been doing for weeks. Yeah, so I need to pick one day and you said I need to pick a location or yeah, yeah, Like you like to tell me the tree, like describe your hypothetical tree, like it could be actually literally a tree you know of in a spot you know of, or you could paint the picture of the perfect hypothetical scenario that in a perfect world you could find. Um, so give me the date and describe the place you would sit and hunt to kill this kind of buck that would give you the absolute best chance. All right, well, I'm gonna have to pick um a day last week of October, so I have to pick one of those. I'd say, haween. I killed most of my biggest deer last ten days of October. I think that's probably the best week of the year. And against If you're going to pick a day that last week, why not go with thought with the Halloween, so that would be my day. The perfect scenario would be on a big rub line, you know, right on the edge of a food source like a red noon and being within earshot of his betting area, you know, a couple hundred yards from where he's betting. Um what and from other information? Are you looking for here? Any anything else you want? This is your hypothetical scenario. So if there's any other factors you want lined up, you can line them up. I'm giving you whatever odds you want to stack in your favor on this one, I'll give it to you. Or if that's if, if that's if that's your scenario, we can let the dice no, I mean, yeah, obviously, or you know, red moon evening when the when the moon's perfect, you know, with a with a wind blowing back into the bedding area from the food source, so that deer feels super comfortable to get up and move with the wind in his favor towards um, towards his food source, you know. And then to have you know, you know, high pressure day, high bear metric pressure, making dear more active, you know, a little cooler temperatures. I really really like an evening where it rains in the afternoon and then clears off in the sun comes out, because it seems like deer just come out of the woodwork on those evenings. I think when everything has a little bit of water on it, it's just it's almost like having salad dressing on your salad. You know, you would rather either dry salad or something that's got you know, some moisture. And especially at that time of the year when deer still eating beans and get a little bit of water on the beans or you know, clover or whatever they're eating. Just I don't know what it is about these evenings after rain when the sun comes out, but good Career says are great evenings for the deer to move. So yeah, there's three or four factors. Last week of October? What's your perfect tree look like? Adam, I'm not as hung up on on, you know, being as high in a tree as I used to be. I'm more concerned about cover. So obviously, you know, fifteen twenty ft off the ground, with plenty of cover and a big tree to break up your you know, your outline, your silhouette. I love you know that question you asked me antlers or a grunt call. I just when I'm after a specific deer, when I'm hunting the evenings, specially at that last week of October, I of to do a little light rattling, you know, if I know I'm set up with an ear shot of where Buck's betting, and I'm on his travel pattern, hunting close to his rub line or maybe his scrape line. And you know, when I rattle, I just want to make enough noise that a deer knows where I'm at. And I'm trying to imitate a couple of younger bucks, you know, in in a dominant bucks area, because that's gonna just piss him off and he's gonna one up. Want to get up and you know, show everybody who's boss. And if he thinks there's a couple of younger bucks messing around in his area, it seems like it's almost too much for them not to get up. So you're doing some light tickling with an ear shot of his bed. He's got the win in his favor to get up. I mean, that's just I think it's a deadly combination, especially if you rattle before you think that deer is up in because I think once a deer is up and moving, it's hard to get him turned to come your way. But if he can routle to a big deer in his bed, I think you got more of a chance of him getting up and heading in your direction than if he's already up pet in an opposite addresstion. So I'd probably be doing a little light rattling right about sunset, just before I think you're gonna be up moving, when they're just laying there thinking about what they're gonna do. I like that. That would be my that would be my perfect evening. All right, Well, I like to set up. I have confidence in your ability. I think you would get the buck killed and you'll be able to keep on hunting. So that's a that's what I think. So so, Adam, before we shut this down, can you just give us an update on where we can learn more about everything you've got going on, whether it's the moon Guide or the show or any other projects you want us to know about. Well, the Team two shows still running on the Pursuit channel. All this was our eighth season Tuesday nights at eight pm for Big Buck Tuesdays. All of our old seasons are available through Waypoint TV, which if anybody is not aware of Waypoint, it's UH free app you can get on your phone. They got hundreds of great shows on there. You can get the app on your phone for free or watch it through what Waypoint tv dot com and then they're actually available on just about every h smart TV these days. Digitally. UH did start a new YouTube channel, moon Guides Team two hundred um, which has got a lot of our lot of our old episodes on it and some new stuff we're working on moon Guide dot com for the moon Guide app or the dial Um. We did just rebuild the app. It's got parcel data including it now and some other pretty cool features. Completely rebuilt this year on a rock solid platform, so some pretty cool stuff in there, and UM, as always, anybody that wants to reach out to me, you can reach me through social media. UM team two hundred, moon guide dot com info at moon Guide for the email on that. I'm a fairly easy guy to get a hold of, and I answer every email or request I get, So that's amazing. Somebody's got any questions about how you know the moon works, what I think about it, you know, um, really anything in general. I'm an open book more than happy to talk about deer hunting, trying to help guys out. So well, we certainly appreciate you doing that with us here today at him It was it was fun. And I guess my last question is do you have the one picked out for this year yet? Do you have a buck that's gonna check all the boxes that you're gonna be targeting? May I have three deer in Ohio that we're all like right at that you know, mid sixties mark last year, and I've only seen one of them so far, and I think he's probably you know, probably past the one seventy mark this year. He didn't make as big of a jump as I thought, but he's super heavy, massive ten point with a couple of extra kickers. So it's going to be interesting if these other two bucks show up what kind of jumps they made. So I'm not sure that I'm got anything north of two Ohio this year. Got one in Illinois that still waiting to get pictures of that could definitely crack two inches. Um big non typical that you know was right at that or four and half five year old mark last year that could just could be a be a world class animal this year. So I can't wait to see, you know that deer made it, just waiting to seem show up on camera. And then I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they're going to keep the border open for Canada this year because it was going to be able to hunt a world class dear there last year, and obviously I couldn't get up there with the border being shut down. And if that deer made it this year, who knows what that thing is gonna look like the biggest typical frame deer I've ever seen in my life. So well, yeah, well we who wish you the best of luck, and uh, let's chat again after you kill a couple of those big guys and find out how you did it. So sounds a good man. Well, appreciate you guys having me on. Hopefully I didn't make a fool of myself. Now you passed the test. Hopefully there's something in there that somebody picked up on that will help him out to fall. But yeah, I appreciate you guys having me on. Good luck this fall and be safe. Thank you same same, right back at you. And that's a rap. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate it. Uh, just a little plug here, if you're not already signed up for the Wired to Hunt weekly newsletter, get on that. That's where we're sharing all of our new stuff every week, all the new articles from the wire Nut website, all the new videos from the wire hunt YouTube channel, uh, these new podcasts. It all gets sent out every week along with a note for myself with updates on what I'm doing or different little tips and tricks things like that. So you can sign up by going to the meat eater dot com slash wired and get a little pop up bubble that shows you the option to sign up for that newsletter. So highly recommend that and check out all that stuff because Tony and I and Spencer and the whole old crew of folks that are doing wired hunting stuff. Now we're busting our tails to put out a lot of new white tail content for people that eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff people like you, So I hope you're able to check it out, hope you enjoy it, and uh find value in it. So that's all I got. Thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you. Until next time, stay wired to Hunt.