00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three eighty four, and today we are joined by the legendary white tail bow hunter Andre de Quisto for a follow up to our previous discussion this summer, and this time we're diving deep into the white tail rut. All right, welcome to the Wire Done podcast, brought to you by Onyx. Today we're joined again by Andre de Quisto. Now, Andre was a guest back on episode three sixties six, and it was a It was a pretty exciting thing having him on. He has not previously done podcast interviews up to that point, so it was interesting to get to hear from him. We talked for over two hours and we still weren't able to cover everything I wanted to though, and after hearing from many more of you saying you wanted to hear more as well, we had to make it happen. So if you didn't hear episode three sixty six, be sure and go back listen to that. Get the foundation of Andre's hunting style. Um, get all that figured out. We talked a lot about his scouting, talked about some of his aggressive tactics, talked about really a lot of what he does in October and preseason. But uh, really quick, if you're not familiar, Andrea is one of the foremost white tail hunters in the country. He's I think it's fair to say, kind of legendary within the do it yourself crowd. He revolution revolutionists, excuse me, the mobile hunting world. When he founded Lone Wolf tree stands back in the day, he popularized a series of aggressive hunting tactics that are now widely used and talked about. Uh. He's now the founder of Lone Wolf custom gear and a host of their white Tail Addictions TV show. So he's doing a lot of stuff. And he's also I mean, he's he's he's aggressive, he's confident, he's unique, and he's wildly successful. So he's someone to listen to, he's someone to learn from, and today different than the last time. Today, what we're gonna do is grill him on the white tail Rut. And that's because this episode is launching right now on the doorstep of the white tail Rut. That's it. The super Bowl of the white tail season. That the high point of our year, the grind, the marathon, the big show. This is it. This is happening now. So we're gonna dig into everything Andre thinks about during the rut. Why sometimes the rut is frustrating for him, how he still has success many times during the rut, what he does, how his perspective might be different than most other rut hunters. It's interesting stuff. But before we get into that, I do want to leave you with some of my thoughts. I want to kind of open with with some high level principles of hunting the rut, because, especially if you're new to deer hunting, um, I want to make sure you have these basic foundations covered as we go into this time of the year because now, like the last few days of October and the month of November, this is that breeding season for white tail deer, which is when kind of a lot of their caution gets thrown out of the wind or thrown out. I don't know what the saying as I can't think of it right now. Putting us thrown cautions, thrown to the wind, that's it. And uh, they let their guard down and they move a lot more, and it presents us as hunters new opportunities. But at the same time, it requires of us as hunters to put a level of time and dedication into the woods that's different than the rest of the year. If if this is what you really want to do, so let's cover off on a few of those basic principles. Whether you're new or you've been doing this forever, this is important stuff to just always keep in the back of your mind, These principles of run hunting success or something that I always come back to, And you've heard me talk about it before, but but hear me out because every year I find myself getting tangled up in the moment of how this hunt went, and how that went hunting, what this buck's doing, and what that siding told me, what this trail camera image is telling me, and what the wind is doing, what the weather is doing, and all these ingredients get tossed into a big pot and spun around, and then all of a sudden, I spend hours and hours up at night stressing about what I should do and why I should do it and what does this mean. Um, there's there's so many different ingredients here that you can get confused, you can get frustrated. Um, it's it's important, I've found, at least for me to remember that whenever I find myself in that place, to take a step back and look at the big picture again. So here's the big picture. Maybe this will help you in moments like that. The principles of run hunting success. Number one, think about two different types of hunting setups at this time that almost always your plans should fit into this to some degree, because this is really the simplest, most base level of how to find success. You want to be doing one of these two things. Number one, focusing on the dough on dope hot spots. Right at this time of the year, bucks are looking for a doll that's ready to breed, or they are on a dough that's ready to breed and trying to breed here. But either way, bucks are with or around does because they this is the time to mate, to procreate. That's all they have in their mind right now. So if you can know where the does are, that's where the bucks are gonna be. So this can be one or two things. This can be either dope feeding areas or this can be dope betting areas. In the morning's usually dope betting area is the place to be usually all through the rest of the middle of the day. That's the same case in the evenings doe feeding areas. Now, something that happens, excuse me, something that happens often is that these bucks will try to check multiple dope hot spots throughout the day, and to do that, they're usually gonna cruise along the down wind side of those dope hot spots. So, if you're trying to choose where to hunt, and you know you want to be hunting a dope hot spot in the morning, let's say a dope betting area, But when you're trying to pick the spot, hunt around the doll betting area. Usually a good place to start is on the down wind edge of them, because that's where the bucks are gonna cruise and your scent can be blowing away from that back behind it. So think about that. Number one, one of those general filters to pass your potential hunting spots through is is this a doll hotspot? Or Number two, is this a funnel or pinched one? Is this where some kind of feature, whether that be cover like how much how many trees and bushes there are or terrain like is there a saddle and a ridge or is there a lake and a pond over here in just one narrow bridge of landing between it. If there's some way that the natural habitat funnels deer movement into a narrow area, you've got a significantly higher chance of encountering one of these bucks as they travel from Doe hot spot to dol hot spot because they're moving more now than any other time of the year. So if you can find where these concentrations of movement are sit there, that's another great red spot. Best case scenario, you find a funnel like this in between a couple of dough hotspots, then every book that wants to get from point A to point B has to pass through this narrowed area where you can hunt. Again, try to think about wind, trying to make sure your downwind of that point they're going to be passing. But this is a high level concept that we always talk about when it comes to the rut simply because it works. So when you're confused, or when you're frustrated, or when you're bouncing around seven different stands side ideas for your next rut hunt. Look at these two principles of rut success. Does a fit idea one? Does it fit idea too? If it doesn't, maybe you're overthinking things. Now, that's about where to hunt. The next and maybe most important principle of rut hunting success, I think is the mental side of things, and we talked about this last week. We had this conversation with Ryan Holliday, all about these different ways to deal with adversity and perseverance and learning from fail and all that kind of stuff. And that's important to the entire hunting season, but never more so than during the rut, because at this time of year, at least for if you if you're like me, this is the case because if you're like me, you look at the rut as a two or three weeks where you've saved up your vacation days for this time. You're gonna put in all your eggs into this basket. This is when it's supposed to happen, right, This is when you know fireworks are supposed to be going off in the woods. You've got to be out there as much as possible. And there's a certain amount of pressure that goes with that too. And then if you want to hunt these days the way, you know, you should spend as many hours in the tree as you can, for as many days as you possibly can. That is a lot of work. It's a lot of three thirty a m. Wake up calls, and that's a lot of long walks to the tree stands, setting up stands or saddles or whatever, climbing up with your sticks. It's sitting in the tree for twelve or thirteen hours straight and it's freezing cold and rainy and windy, and you're you're tired, and you're exhausted, and you haven't ate enough and you haven't drank enough, and it sometimes it's boring, Sometimes it's exciting. Sometimes it's frustrating. Things go wrong, and then you get home that night and you have to, you know, do the tours around the house and put the kids to bed and get work done, and then your back up three hours later do it all over again. You've got ten more days of that. Um that can be a grind. Now, it's it's the best kind of grind, right. We love it. We live for this, We've dreamed about it. This is what we have looked forward to all year. But it's still it's still tough. It is not an easy thing. And so if you are dedicated to this thing and not saying you have to be, you can be a deer hunter and just go out there a few times here and there for a weekend and and that can be a fun release. That's totally fun. Go for it, have a good time. I'm glad you're doing it. But if you are kind of the nutty version of a white tail hunter like I am, and a lot of my buddies and a lot of you I know are, If this is your thing and you are dedicated to this goal, then this is the grind that you have to prepared to go through. And that channel engine that work, that is part of it. And so the for lack of a better turn, that the boys are separated from the man or the wheat, separate from the chief, whatever chaff, for whatever you wanna call it, this is where this is where the separation happens. Is that if you can just be a big talker about this or can you actually be a big walker and pushed through the grind, this is where this is where it happens. So can you persevere? Can you remember that, Yeah, it's been seven days and I haven't seen a shooter buck. But I know I have to keep going, and I know I need to stay positive because things can change when tough things happen, when you drop your bow, when you miss a deer, when you know when the neighbor shoots the buck you were after, when you've had ten days of not seeing any deer, when all these things happen, how are you going to handle it? This is this is what we talked about last week, right, It's it's how do you bounce back from something like that? Do you get so focused on the mistake or the karding thing that happened that you lose your momentum in your edge or do you say, Okay, yeah, that thing happened. The obstacles the way, right, So we talked about the obstacles away, this thing happened. Can I be frustrated, Yes, But the bad thing, the challenge, the bumping the road, that's not gonna break me. That's gonna be my next step, that's gonna lead me to the next level of growth, or that's gonna take me to be one step closer to achieving my goal. This this just happened to me the other day. So I'm kind of in the middle of my rut grind. I started last week hunting public land in Ohio, just dealt with a bunch of hunter pressure, hunting pressure, never got any good deer, just basically scouted for four days. It was frustrating, but that that just kind of is what it is. So that that happened. Then it came back and started hunting some of my local properties in Michigan that I've been saving for this time of year. Have been very excited to try to get after tram my number one buck, to other nice mature bucks in this area that I want to get after, So I've been hunting some edge off well. I got access to a little area that I haven't been able to hunt in the past, so I've been waiting for the right wind to get in there. And I knew that it was gonna be great because there's a there's a standing corn field there that had just been cut and still is in the process of being cut. So I know this is the absolute best, hottest food source right on the edges from the very best betting that I know my target buck lives in. You want to be there, you want to be in between it, right right in the edge of that betting, in between the betting and the cover. So I finally had the right wind for this last night, I slip in super duper quiet. There's a light drizzle, so I was able to get in there quietly. I took a really long route awround to get in there, to make sure my wind didn't blow anything out. I scouted my way in through the edge and saw more fresh sign than anywhere I've seen all year. I mean probably ten to fifteen fresh scrapes, big, like brand new fresh, no leaves in them, scrapes that were made all around this spot. I wanted to hunt big rubs, the biggest rubs I've seen in the area yet this year. I mean, this is where he's at, and I'm I'm jacked. This is what I've been dreaming of. So I slowly ease my way in considering the wind, trying to be conservative to make sure I'm not going to blow into that bedding air, but at the same time put myself in a position that I can get a shot in the areas. I think he's going to travel down this inside edge between this thick grassy cover and the trees and then the corn. Finally find a tree, Get all set up, get up there. I'm feeling great, feeling confident, texting my buddies, saying, man, this could happen tonight, etcetera, etcetera. Then the wind dies more than it was supposed to, and then the winds shifts different than it was supposed to, and instead of a southwest, it starts edging to straight west, and I'm getting concerned. I'm tossing milk weed up. I'm like, oh no, please, no, oh no. And then it shifts more and it starts going northwest, right towards that betting air. I'm thinking, oh no, please, no, don't let this be the case. And as this happened, the rains coming down. It's been raining. It went from a drizzle to more of a steady rain, so it's hard to hear things. Um, I'm throwing milk weed and looking at this, and then I'm thinking, you know what I think? I think I had to get out of here. It's down to two hours left a daylight. I mean, the best spot I've been an all year. This is the spot to kill the buck I've been dreaming of for three years. I've been following this deer, studying this deer hunting this deer plank cat and mouse in this buck for three years and finally in the best spot I could possibly be, and I think for right now in late October, and the freaking wind changes from what I was supposed to be, and it is now blowing to the worst place, or close to the worst place. I need to get out. And then right at that moment, as I'm coming to the realization that I have to bail on my most highly anticipated hunt, I hear what wow, And I jump out of my saddle. Basically, and and to give us a little more context, I'm hunting inside the timber from a just cut cornfield. I'm probably thirty yards into the timber. And then the bedding, kind of thick stuff, is another like four of yards further inside from where I am, and this crop field is on a different neighbor's land. Right, so, I hear his cow. I don't know how to make the sound, but basically it sounds like a bow going off, and I jump out of my seat and I turned, I look out into that field, and I looked down another fence row, and there sixty yards away. Unbeknownst to me this whole time is a neighbor hunting shot a deer basically right out from behind me. And this guy is not practicing any kind of sent control. This guy does not have any of the things that I obsessed over trying to make sure that deer aren't winding me. Um. He's just out there and whatever. Um. So he shoots a deer, the deer goes running off, crashing off, deer blowing everywhere, and then the wind continues to be bad. I'm sitting here realizing, Okay, I've got this thing happening. He's blown into everything. For sure. I was on the edge of the stuff. And what do you do? I mean, I know, I don't know that he's gonna be blowing his scent into this thing the entire night. He's gonna be tracking around the entire night. So basically this spot is blown up for the evening. So I ended up saying, Okay, this spot's blown the haunts of bust, I might as well not blow up another place too. So I sat it out till the end of the night, went and share with my neighbor, helped him look for his era, etcetera, etcetera. Um. But the point being, I went from the highest of highest thinking I'm in the spot to kill my buck. Finally everything's coming together. I went from that too. Now instead having two people's wind blowing into an area I didn't really want to be blowing a guy walking all over the place. Uh, you know, every kind of commotion you can imagine is happening now, not what I expect and not what I wanted. I could be frustrated. I was frustrated, very frustrated. I was still frustrated this morning. I could stay that way. At the same time, I realized that nothing good is going to come from letting that continue. I can't let that take me out of the game. So now out today, I gotta shake it off. I gotta keep at it. I gotta stay positive, and I gotta remember they can all change in the second. They could change tomorrow, it could change tonight. And after three hours hunting tonight, it's down a half hour left, it's down to ten minutes left, it's down to four minutes left. It could change in a second. Right then, that is the rut. That's what you gotta be thinking about, and that's what I've encouraged all of you to do this season. So with that out of the way, let's hear from Andrew to Quisto. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you have some incredible hunts in these coming days and good luck. All right, back with me for part two of our discussion from earlier this year is Andre to Quisto. Andre, thank you for making time to come back. Hey, how are you doing that? I'm good, I'm good, and I'm glad we can be having this conversation because back in August when we chatted last time, we cover a lot of interesting things, got a ton of feedback from people. People really enjoyed it, but they wanted more. So you gotta give the people they want, right right. I don't realized that far away. I guess still, Yeah, time flies right that that period of the year can go really quick. Um So, so yeah, that's that's what I want to do, Andres. I want to try to cover some of the things we never got to last time, and then maybe go deeper into a few things that people had foul up questions on. Um So, if that all sounds good to you, I do think that a good place to start might be in your real life right now, which is how you season is going. Are you? Are you willing to share this how that season has gone so far? Yeah, what what's the story? Well, it's been an absolute nightmare. So this is probably the first time I ever started all season will not being able to even walk in the woods look at anything at any time at all to scout or prepare. I'm still ordering sox and still ordering broadheads, and um so I'm lipping by the little all my old equipment. I'm still hunting out of my original one point because I still can't get one for myself, uh, because we've been so busy. Um but other than that, for the hour and a half a couple of hours that I get to jump on early morning evenings, um, I mean I could have filled my take probably ten times over already, but not locating the caliber there yet that I want to hunt. So I was hoping this this would be my big week, and it turns out that it's gonna be the busiest week for all our products coming in and shipping out. So I will become a rough hunter this year probably, And that's a present. And that's something that traditionally you usually don't care for it too much, right, No, I don't. I mean not that I don't care for it. I mean, um, but seeing I don't have a target buck to go after right now anyhow, I guess it's irrelevant. Um. Um, hopefully there's something out there, you know, I said, I lost standing corner around or something out there that will pique my curiosity or um, maybe we take care of some of these big, big, ugly apes that are running around on his property. I'm not trying to get rid of for years. So so what do you do in a situation like that though, where you just aren't finding the bucket you want? How are you searching him out? Is it just you're running a ton of cameras? Are you observing every night? What's what's that? A bunch of cameras out there? Um getting little business and pieces of stuff that Cody has posted online asking asking neighbors and other farmers if they've seen anything anything good, you know, just your traditional short little leads that you could get. Um, because I really haven't. I did. I didn't have a chance to take a walk the other day and and located what I what I like to look at is just a massive rubs um reopen. So that tells me there are some obviously it's a big mature dominant deer there, but it doesn't tell me that, bro, they are so um all the things I've had a pictures of so far just um, you know it's some decent deer, but nothing nothing news shattering. So yeah, so then you're becoming a right hunter. Well I will be. I can't yeah, get it done here. Well, I guess that's a good point. Then let's let's tell me what you're gonna do over this next week. Then, so the last handful days in October? What's that going to look like for you? This year? So? How wash? So I jumped on posts uh the other day. I decided to do it as a pretty big eight duck could be taken out, and I probably should have been there a day earlier. Checked out of the cameras and and there was a primary scrape there that about four bucks we're battling over. I got all kinds of view on the camera and stuff and and um, so I went to set up on that and I had to two bucks come down when work is great, but not the not the big ones. So I'm concentrating on right and um scrapes. Would be nice to know the caliber deer that's on him so, um, this deer will probably push one seven years and eight. And there's a couple other ones that are in that caliber. But uh, and these are traditionally the type of deer that will keep the ones you want off your property because they they take up space, um pretty aggressive. But the times that I'll get on early in for evening and mornings. Now obviously if I'd love to be able to sit later right now on some midday stuff um or later mornings, so I'll just um keep bumping around, keep checking cameras and in between work, it stands out, coordinate things with the business. And and I think we're gonna be all caught up by around November one, so that'll give me some time to get out and spend a little more um time you go. Now, these late October hunts you mentioned focusing on those primary scrapes. Um, can you describe a little more and a little more detail what you mean by that. There's there's a lot of different people that use that term, but I've found that everyone kind of envisions something a little bit different. What are these scrapes look like, where are they located? These are active scrapes. There's a lot of their scrapes everywhere. Everywhere you look, everywhere you walk up and down, log and rolls, um, there's scrapes. And a lot of those are like half hearted scrapes where a deal just to shrug a donalog and roll running to where some dolls went through and and lay with down. These are traditionally scrapes. They are there every year. Um, even in the spring. It looks like there's you know, there's nothing work in it, but it looks like there's a scrape there because they're just every year, the same same trees, um, same areas are usually the biggest dominant dealers running running off that, and other ones will we'll work at the same branch. So um, you got another note to one of my one of the best ones on his property. It was just the farmer trimmed his if I mentioned that last time, but he trimmed the lanes along the fields and he cut he cut the best primary. I don't know property branch off, So I don't know if I was gonna try and do a lot of these guys do them and put some new branches in there and make it work. But I just just kind of let it go and um it with a tragedy. But so that's what I'll be concentrating on. Bold scrapes. Again, I got a picture of something that is probably the biggest that I've seen. So um, and then we'll just stuff starting to move. Now where it was a short short movement, these there are starting to travel more and work more scrapes. And then, um, so you're gonna get some stuff that you probably haven't seen, some stuff spilling off the neighbors or it might have been on the border property starting to work you know where somebody's uh, scrapes that are on the property. So when you're setting up, when you're setting up on a scrape like that, are you setting up to be within shooting range of the scrape or are you you trying to set up on like a down wind access route? How do you how do you think through that? No, yeah, you never want to do that. The old down win series of days gone past, where deer will scent check a scrape, That's that's all bullshit, because I've I'd sit down the wind of a scrape and I'd have a deer coming from the tour opposite direction work to scrape and lead would helping him a get shots. So you want to be able to shoot that scrape, but you gotta have your A game on. And right now you'll see in your cameras are are just most of it was after dark. Now they're starting to get right after dark. And this next week now they're going to get just a little earlier and early enough um where they'll be there, you know, in daylight hours. So this is the week to capitalize on it. Um. And like I said last night, I had when I could have one of these smaller bucks that was working that area came in and worked one of the scrapes off of that big one, um, which I also could from the next tree. So I might even give that. Now we just got a fresh stoll uh he didn't show last night. I might get that one more, one more shot here, um before I start heading to some stuff, wander into some stuff a little closer to food sources. Now we got snow on the ground, a little nastier weather. So yeah, so when do you switch to more of a you know, when you move away from the scrapes and focus on core rutt stuff. Is that like November one on the dot? Or is something else? Last year it ended up around that that time usually, um, you just get a feel for what's going on on the property with the activity of the deer. Um Like now you're deer feed and heavy are still in the corn fields and all that, and these deer are out searching and putting down other scrapes for um for groups of deer that are in different areas, so they're traveling more. So now you can you can be on some of those scrapes or on field edges where the or where a lot of the dolls are starting to um or are feeding, and then some of them bucks will start coming out, and it seems like they move earlier and earlier, and all of a sudden they're up and they're moving and they don't stop moving. So UM, I was hoping last night, and I thought it was gonna happen, because one of the bucks that that came in down there obviously got booted out off the mountaintop there from another dear and he come running through like a scared little a little b and uh, and I thought for sure that thing would come down to work that's scrape, but it never did. And I was hoping another buck would come in and get on that scrape where he would see that then get get a gander up and come on down, but never never came off the the mountain sol Um. Now they'll start moving out and moving earlier, and and they'll be a little tougher to pin him on the actual one scrape, you know. So yeah, so once November does hit and it's it's feeling like the ruts on um. And now I know you say that the rut has been frustrating for you in the past, as you like to be after one specific buck. But in this kind of case where you don't have the one specific buck that your heart set on, which is a situation that a lot of people listening are in right, they just want to kill any good buck. Um, what's it? Then? Yeah, so what do you what are you doing once the rut hits? What does your day and your setups look like? So I still scout during that that time because certain areas and spots that are the farm will will heat up. But their traditional stand set ups or locations that you know from time tested or you read the sign, you want to be set up in those spots proper with the wind and the whole goal is that anything that comes through there, um, you are able to kill. So let's say you set up on a spot like that and you get a bunch of deer come through and nothing that you want to shoot. As long as everything that came through could have got an arrow on it, and you could have been successful until the tag it was successful set you just had to you know. Um And and the biggest thing, the highest thing for me, is to make a last minute decision because we've got a lot of rack bocks around here, in big rack bocks of it's the one you want, and that's very very hard to do on the fly. So it's really nice to identify something with a camera before. And you know, you know, when you see that deer, you know, you get yourself in gold mode and you're, um, you're you're ready when it comes through. Otherwise you're just you know, right to the last minute, you're gonna make it. Have to make a split decision whether you want to harvest that deer or not. You know, so um and guys make the mistakes. So it matter of fact of just the buddy of mine just all happened real quick, and he's got a deer in the ground that's nice, but not all that big that he wished you would have, you know, wish you would have took a second look or had an opportunity to figure it out. But it's just it's more than what he wanted, you know. So um, and that happens a lot. So you mentioned that you're still scouting at this point looking for sign. What's the sign that matters for you during the rut? Because we covered a lot about what matters to you in October? But is that different at all now? So there's obviously it's it's been raining here, like I think we had six inches in the last few days. There's mud everywhere. You can read sign. Her blind man could read sign right now. Um, I'm gonna concentrate on groups of dolls now where all the dolls are feeding, where they're at for in a little bit they're probably going to height and mode. But wherever those wherever those dolls are now and feeding now, there's gonna be a lot of bucks round around, poking around, even though the dolls aren't ready. Um, So I'm gonna concentrate on spots like that that are heating up, especially picked corn fuel. Over here. Your alfelfa is dying ao, but now our clover are still kicking in pretty good. Um. So they're they're feeding a lot in that you know, clover field. Uh, and then we got some turnips and radishes in those will start kicking in so um. You know, you start getting a lot of dolls feeding on that, you're gonna want to be hunting basically those spots even though you're not hunting the dolls them bucks will be there and it will be you know, out in the fields sniffing around and stragging them. So and that's mostly for evenings on those food sources or even will you be close to that even for those mornings evenings you could be on those spots even depending upon your moon faces in the mornings, but traditionally off of those spots in the morning where they're coming back to bed, yeah not be Let's say you're back in the timber. You know, those deer out there all feeding and they're gonna be trickling back in um to bed in the morning. And and and now they're starting to especially when the corn starts coming down or starting to have a little bit longer of a a run back to betting instead of betting right, But where they're at a lot of them, dear, been just living in that corn. Mostly you're you know, just parking it. They're eating and and milling around. So do you do anything different once that corn comes down to that flip any switches for you? Because I know across a lot of parts of the country that's happening right now. It's happening for me in a proper DWN hunt. It's it's nice because you know, well the outside is most of my corns out and all my neighbors stilling, which is a very bad thing. So once all the corn comes down, that cuts your more than half your cover that those deer can be in is gone. So that's just it just makes it an easier, easier hunt. Um, if you've got corn and all year you can have bucks living in that corn most of all, you know, then those could be out in there and it's just a little tougher tougher to get to them. So yeah, So those those the food sources you mentioned, like a recently cut corn field or a turnip field or elf helfa or whatever um you mentioned, usually gonna hunt those in the evenings. Can you walk me through how you would specifically set up a stand to be hunting one of those food sources, because some people might hear you say that and think that you're just randomly on the edge of the field. I'm guessing, I don't know, are you thinking about certain things with how dear getting down into the food source or areas where you can find a wind safe position wherever you're ambush So it is you're just you're going to make sure your your wind is it's right for that. I'm I'm on I'm on one of my favorite foodstre spots. Uh quarantine left to me over field to the right, I'm on a hedgerow in a pine eight feet off the ground that's just stark naked, that strategically located where I can even get some on the right wind with the right speed, I can get the wind literally growing blown over the top of deer. They're coming down onto me and up, and it's just it's phenomenal. I'm not even in the timber, I'm I'm kind of out on the edges of it um. And that's what's really nice about that is you can get a glimpse at something that you wouldn't normally see if you're just inside the woods. All of a sudden you see, you know, big old buck pop out way at the end of the clover field, chase a few dolls around and jump back again. Um, that's some great until to have the slide over the next day and and make a move on it. Where if you're a lot of guys like to stay back in the timber a little bit catch from coming out, you don't see half of what. Um um, you know what you're learning on on pole so that I don't know if a lot of guys know that. But years ago I was a big, big field edge hunter. I mean I spent every evening was on a a field edge and never even really went back into the timber and stuff. And so you get a chance to learn a lot from that and um um, some exciting hunting. Yeah, now what we kind of talked about this in August, but I want to just bring it up again and really specifically focus on during the rut, and that is the snare you just described there where you're sitting somewhere and you see a buck pop out and he chases a dough off the food plot or the field and he's back in the timber. So you saw a buck you want to shoot, and you saw him do something. So in a lot of cases i'd say, are right, go there and hunt there the next day. But in this case rut. Yeah right, So tell me now, now you're just something chasing a dell. It could be random, right would you would you move over there? Yeah? If it's small bucks shagging around, you can kind of tell when. Um, but that might be a just an area that dead deer is coming to frequent dead feel to see what's on it and then popping off. Um, those dolls. If you can identify or or see a group of dolls where dolls coming into heat, it's like having live bait for you. So traditionally that doll will not get bread for four days. You'll have the stink where the buckle know it's getting close. Um. And those deer are not like the rut where they change their their patterns. They still go to their bedding and they're feeding. So you can kind of if you know that section of your area of woods and you know them, then deer traditionally comes to that field and go back on that corner. You know, there could be four other groups of deer coming that go off totally different ways to bed and coming from different ways. So now you know that buck is concentrating on those dolls. So you go over there and you you put yourself in that corridor. Um, you've got a portable stand. You go over there. You see what you know, which what trails are really heavy. You know, you get get down one the bums to twich you're spot your hunt them. Um, so okay, this is this is important. I think you're basically saying that, well, you might not be able to usually pattern a buck during the rut, you can pattern the dos. And when you know that a group of does or one of them within a family group is either in heat or shuret seems like it's close, and you know where those doughes spend the time, focus on that spot for the next few days, and you you you kind of pattern a buck by doing that, because you really can't you really can't pattern a buck at that time, or they just are I think I mentioned that and somebody else's podcast over they don't know what they're doing the next day. That could be, you know, once that ship starts sitting a fan. That's ah, it's pretty chaotic, and it's weird that you you know, you got these deers there pattern they're in certain areas, these books, and as they start branching out and traveling more, they're just men are off on tangents, you know, and they don't know what they're gonna run into. And um, so you're kind of like I said, right now, a good is a good time to um. They're still still working those scrapes. But once it gets to the point where you just don't start coming a little bit, those scrapes are really hit or miss, and I don't like to um burn up a lot of time on them, you know, unless they're writing a corridor where the deer are traveling. Um, then obviously the bucks coming through, he'll he'll work it. But um, yeah, you can pattern pattern in dolls, patternet spot, get that spot and then just just hunt it. That's uh. Now is that more of what it was done? Is that more of a thing that just works at the very beginning of the run. I'm wondering if once you're in November ten and a percent of the dos or heat, it probably isn't as effective because because everything's lit up, right, So then then what you want to do is now you're gonna look. Now you're on located adult that's literally in heat, and the bucks are dogging her. She could be bread. In a couple of days, you're gonna have not one buck on her. You're gonna have a shiploadle bucks and that and that little I don't know if you ever experienced the turn the ruck. You'll be on a wherever you're actually least your property, and all of a sudden, for two or three days, four days, the thing just it's just ice cool. It's like a ghost town. Um. It was like on fire for a minute, and then just pull all those bucks might be on one doll that's going on to heat and just trailing her and telling her and wherever the hell she's at or traveling too, that's where they're at. So you have to have the werewold all to go find that, um situation. It's pretty it's pretty easy with scouting and I do the old bumping dumb at that time, you'll you'll jump a bunch of bucks in a drawer in a certain spot. Uh. And if there's a bunch of them there and someone may even moving or running off, you kind of know that you're in the right draw so you could, um, you know, you can step up and hunt hunt that spot and if you're not, if you're on the other side of the farm, you'll you'll burn up to three days and not literally not see you see a thing. And I don't know if you've experienced it, but I've had his menus. You know, ten twelve bucks all in one draw, um, trying to get ahold of one dough that's that's coming in, you know. Yeah, And this is one of those things that I want to dive deeper into because you mentioned this real lightly last time, But talk to me a little bit about the scenario where you would do this. So I know you said, Okay, during the rut and it's cold and cold by like you're not seeing a lot of activities. So is there a certain window like dates is it? Is this a thing that from no feeling okay, yeah, you'll be sitting in it's like Jesus Christ, you know, this is this is insane. You're sitting here. It's just uh you're thinking, you're all you're in your traditional good spots, uh, and it's just it's just stuff just goals just goes cold on you and you just, um, you gotta find out where the action is happening, you know, and it's and it's happening somewhere and sadly, if you've got a small piece, it could be happening on somebody else's deal and you're you're stuff just waiting for um, waiting for it to happen. So are there any specific kinds of places that you are going when you're trying to find where this rut fest is happening? Is it? Are you gonna walk right away or hit each betting area or what I know? Um like on this property? You know, and and with experience of hunting us a spot you should over over years you should learn those. We have an area here that there's a long drawn out, really sick nasty cedars grass is an old pastor area that literally comes to a law ms rowing on the point and ends up going nowhere. It comes to all open fields and at that time of the year, them those just they all everything puts down into that type point. It's like really thick where they can kind of height and try and say for them dolls, and it just it just lights up like you wouldn't believe in that corner and you will just see big buck after big buck just heading down into that corner shopping for somethone heading back out you know, looking if they're if they're in there, if they're stacked in or and I have a numerous, numerous big deer um in that spot and now I already have now I have stands set for where they come in and out of there. So it's it's a really nice set. Um. I got a buddy coming out this year. I'm gonna put him on that spot. And hell, that was stuff a good time, so um kind of a it's thick, but it's grassy. It's thick with mixed pines. So where you're sitting you can see a lot, if that makes sense. You know, you're not real high in the stand, but you get a chance to see all the action and uh. And some of the spots are where you're you're so thick at the pint. It really sucks because it's it just happens all of a sudden boom. There's you know, there's a hundred and sixty bucks sitting right there, and you didn't even have time to react or get ready, and you know you got about whose seconds to make a move or it's or it's gone type of things. So I hate those spots. But there are some that are that are really good that a guy just has to sit, you know. Let's say then we we are searching for a place like that. Let's say you know, I went out, it's been a lousy two days of red hunting, and I'm thinking to myself, Okay, there must be something going on somewhere else. I'm gonna try to find it. I'm getting aggressive, so I'm walking around like you're describing. I'm checking out some of these nasty, grassy, thick spots and I find it. I get in there, and all of a sudden, two bucks go running off, and I see a doe squired out, and I'm thinking, okay, this might be what we're talking about. Can you tell me how you set up in that spot? Like, because do you want to walk through it all and see it? Do you stop right then? You're you're there? Actually found them other load. Now you just you know, you look for the beat trail or a sign that that's that's good with the with the wind there, and you get on that. Uh you get on that that trail and you set up and you you sit tight. I've had a lot of times where I'd be setting up a stand and uh um. Sometimes I'll run and grab a stand and and and bring one back in and set up on that. And I've had a lot of times right how to stand with me? And as I'm setting up, lo and behold a freaking deer come piling right back in through. And um you got you got a buck standing there watching you set up your stand too. So um, that's why I traditionally like to stay kind of low and um, kind of out of the way. But yeah, when you find those little uh louting honey hooles, I've done a lot of times. I've pushed them all out of there, got my stand, and boom, they all come just you know, toward evening, even if they went and bed and a little further, just come come piling out of there. Um, those bucks all tuntings and stuff. Soon. How long will you give a spot like that? Will you hunt it for two more days? Will you sit on it for a while? A spot like that, you're gonna you'll capitalize on it right away. You're in, you're in the ship. It's gonna happen right then that night you're on red hot sign. Um. If it's if it takes two days, those they're they're not there. They they had an offer who knows what the hell happened. You know, mighty ran across the road, you might chase to cross across the road or something back in there, and some other big guy got onto it and they're battling over there. But traditionally, um, when it does, when they're kind of that doll, they're gonna they don't give a ship what you are as long as you're not bumping and spooking the dough. And a lot of times they don't the dolls I even't seem to care. I've almost had the assumption that some of them dos literally bring them bucks by you, hoping the freaking that you can get the hell that that thing off their aft, you can punted back, you know, so help me out. But it's, uh, yeah, it's weird. It's and they don't give a ship. They got a hot goal. They can see you, they can um. They ain't leaving her side. Wherever she's going, she's they're following. What about What about a situation like you personally might find yourself in where you go and you find one of these hotspots you're hunting and you're in the middle of it, there's a dough run around, there's seven bucks all over the place, but none of them are the buck you want, so you're not gonna hang around just in case a big one. Absolutely. So like early season this year, I'm I'm sitting observation post. Nothing's going on yet, everything's uh. I go into certain fields that I got food plots, hel Delfa, and I sit back and I watch, and let's say I got five seven bucks off the field feeding a bunch of dolls out there. None of them are acknowledging each other, They're just on the feed. It's it's second week October. I basically know that what I've seen that night there is what that place has to offer. And I I just get down and I go look at the next spot. And then I, uh so I went to another spot that well, it was actually spot three, and that's where I located three monstrous eight points right off one of our food plots. Just um, and you'll see some of the stuff on white peledictions this year. I got on video, but um, you know, it's pretty excited. I've seen some nice cages coming out and shoot and um and they're all freaking eggs, big disavates. Uh So I kind of know that that's what that spot has to offer. So I kept bouncing a little bit of time that I had. Uh a matter of fact, I think that one spot I had to come back to one time because I got a call a truck was coming. I had to get down at a half hour before dark and go onload the truck, which um just about killed me. But that last half hour could have been where maybe a magna would have came out and I had a glimpse of them, So I didn't get the until that I really wanted there. But normally, like I said, you your weed through it. Most guys are they an't leaving that you know they're parking her grass or seeing them here, that's they're not leaving that spot. And um, and also the stand that will have a shipload of one fifties come through and I'll get done and I won't come back because there's just not what I'm looking for in that spot. So ma'am, yeah, well you know what you want and I gotta go find it. I get that. What about uh the next scenario in here where you found this pocket of excitement and you do see a buck you want, but he's locked on that dough hard and you know they're not they're not coming your way. Do you walk me through what you are you gonna throw the throw the book at him with every call and rattling sequence you got chasing down. I've done a little of that stuff, but all the call and adela and you want and taking that buck off that door, you're gonna have to. So let's say maybe it's a doll that you know, Maybe it's a dough you've seen before and you can identify and you know her travel routes, or we're you know, you're just try and get on that corridor. Um. A good calling card for you to key in on is when when a big dominant deer, if he's got other bucks harass and trying to get to her, they will leave some aggressive, aggressive rubs on those trails that that dough is using. And that's when you find that just you sit that trail because you're you're gonna get your crack the next day that doesn't come through there and he's gonna be on ear and of seeing that just dozens of times over the years. So um, you can get some good until that way, it's still a little still a little bit of scouting. Um, I've already grabbed the stand, freaking ran around almost think I was outcometing, and tried to set up um where there was more of a pinch point, thinking that doll was heading that direction. She go through, and I just I'd just be awf a little too far and the head through and hit up somewhere else. So, um, but I don't know how you could call a buck off a doll that's in heed, he's got why would he want to do anything? But um, hey, litter, you also what he wanted. So you would you go back in there as soon as you possibly could and get set up on that corridor somehow that's gonna be. So let's say, like I said, it's let's say it's a four day window. Let's say he's on two day two. You have to get on you have to be on that trail um that that doll is using, and he will be following up not far behind. So uh and if you miss that, you miss it. If he breeds her, then he's off running somewhere else and he's not on that spot, and he just that's the rut is just a it's a it's a total luck and and percentage game and it really is. And in the favor of a guy the hunter, you know. Mostly that's why most of these guys don't the rut because you can you can get out there and get a crack every day bucks that are traveling, there's not you know, I'm just more tuned the one that I want. But if I had to feed my family or just get a deer, um, I think I mentioned me many times of a buff that will get up and I'll go buy you know, ten or six different seven different different sets on the property and one night where before you can get it. You can get them to go by one. Yeah, as all spots. So it's really um best for if you want to fill tag and harvest um. And it's probably your best bet for the buck of your life too because at that time of year, some of them deer that you know, how the big deer are there. Um, they don't move a lot. They're they're hung up in their own area. There's solitary you don't make a lot of you know. And now they're up playing and getting stupid and doing stuffy shouldn't be doing so their their their guards. They're leaving herself wide open, you know, So it would be your it'd be into your advantage to be in the woods every freaking minute you could at that time of year. And and is that what it looks like for you? I think I remember hearing something at some point that you don't like to hunt all day, or you're used to, but don't anymore. Is that right? I can't hunt all day? That's just too long about you know. It's it's one thing if you go on a hunt. Here's the big dilemma. With all my own farm here and run a business and half farming. If I was away for a week and just hunting, I could sit the whole day, but I'd never sit in the same stand a whole day. I would sit in three three different spots throughout the day to break it up. Um, but a lot of time, you know, those spots to these all day hunts. I could tell you that the two or three hour window you're gonna see your damn deer on that whole day sit. And I used to tell him about it at all the time, as you know, he's he said, all freaking day, I see my action and then uh early and late, and he see just one set of action too during the day. So um, but this rut time, those they are they get up and they're moving. Even when the doose are better, they're searching, they're they're just they're just traveling a lot more so it's it really is to your advantage to um to be in there. And I get down way too early, and a lot of that. A lot of times some bucks will let those dogs go back to bed everything, let us settle down, and that's when they get up and start shagging and running big, you know, big miles and putting some miles on to look for for dolls, going to heat if they haven't got one already, you know. Yeah. So do you ever hunt midday anymore? Is that something you ever tried keying on somewhere? Yeah? When I do? And oh it's good that I lost the point of that is that when you're hunting out of your own home, you know how it is, there's something always comes up. You're trying to do something a little bit before you. I just think we are right now, we're trying to get this podcast on. So we both get in the woods right then. I gotta run their shop. I gotta do was some you know, see what they're doing there and making sure they're building the right stuff. And then um, you just get you're you're not really hunting full full scale. Your you're juggling stuff where if you're out on a hunt or um just strictly they're hunting what's in somebody's peace, and you're you're spending your whole time doing that. You got a lot more effective. But to get to that point, if the moon face says activity at twelve thirty in the afternoon, like when I used in October, I'd said I'd be taking corn out or my crops out, um, and you know I'd have to unload trucks at primetime in the evening, or you do want to get going right away in the morning. I could dive out for an hour and a half in midday and get a get a little sit in or something like that. So, um, it's just a long that's a long day. In one stand, I've never been real patient. Um, you'll be able to doing that. I always thought it was more beneficial to get down and look around them. It was to sit. Um, scout scout scout hunt. You know, so you've mentioned the moon phase. This is something that I know you've You've put a lot of weight behind over the years. We didn't really touch on it in our previous conversation. Can you can you walk me through what it is you're king in on when it comes to the moon phase or times, um, and how that changes your strategy the general. UM, So I don't ever let it be an excuse for not getting the woods, and I probably use it for an excuse to stay a little longer or you know. So so if I hunt and I traditionally get down at nine thirty or ten earlier in October and it says that you know there's gonna be activity at ten thirty, I'll sit the extra hour, um and watch it. But traditionally you're, um, you're deeral move and they move a little later every day, a little later every day, so you can kind of follow that around, and it's, uh, you know, you're you're back, you're doing your fireman and you're seeing dear mid day because that's the time they're up in moving mid day. But you're doing what you're doing. You know, you only got time to hunt in the morning. So it's, um, it's a little frustrating that I almost wish I didn't know about that, because it's like dam I wasted my time here today or I should I, um, you know, do that or sleep in and go out a little bit later. And just the day you do that, it ends up costing you big. So um hunt as budget you can, as often as you can. You can't kill him from you know. Yeah, I'm a tractor in the hall. So true. And and the moon when you said when the moon times tells you to you know, stay a little later or something, am I right in that? The moon information you're paying attention to. You look at the red moon days right, the dial that just follow So before even the moon charts, I got animal his dials that I've been following. Um uh that all that Murray studies they did. And traditionally what I found before even that is the closer to full moon, the later to deer move when it gets full moon. They just moved late, and they're they're coming out after dark. But traditionally on that then your mornings are better late morning. So in the morning when you get in and go hunt right at the sun up, a lot of those they are betted and they're not up there moving yet. And everybody that's fun it has seen that you'll go in sometimes I can go in. I go in to the center of my property because it's the only way I can go in through a bunch of fields. And I could travel this whole property and not see a deer up on its feet anywhere near the corn any of the fields, get into my stand and it ship won't happen fill nine o'clock, you know, it just it just is not. And then there's other times that you'll go and you'll blow forty deer on the land because they're they are up feeding at that time early in the morning, right at sun up and then heading back in. So you can kind of you can kind of use that as a guideline too when the most activity is that maybe hot to get in a little different or use it to whatever advantage you can. You know you can, um, you can use it too. So UM, but one thing is that's usually on feeding and you've gotta be also smart about it that. Um the rut and big deer activity is totally different from this has nothing to do with feeding patterns. It's got nothing to do with anything but checking order and ruts. So, uh, you still have that information. But uh, some of these deer is big deer out moving around because not because the moon face says they should be on feeding. It's because they're going checking scrapes or making scrapes, you know, early October and maintaining a scrape line or things of that nature too. So, um, you gotta take that all into count you know. Yeah. So basically, once you get to this part of the year and into November, there's there's bigger forces at play. It's kind of what you're saying, yeah, yeah, so um yeah you wanna um E said that bucks are up and they're moving. They're moving just about all data. They're still bedding somewhere here or that, but they're so um they can come through anywhere at any time. So so here's a very specific scenario for you that I actually encountered recently and I'm just kind of curious how you would think about it. Um. Basically, there's a I spotted a buck that I think it was a very brief sighting, um, just a flash, but I think it was a target buck. But he was doing something that I wouldn't expect him to do. He was heading kind of into a little, tiny, little little betting pocket, like a quarter acre little pocket, um where it was next to a dirt field that got disked under. It's not where the really good stuff is, So we went. He dove into this little tiny pocket on an evening hunt. While I would have thought that if he was going anywhere, he'd be going to another part of the property that I could also see where they're cutting the corn right now. So this there I'm looking at is okay. I know that with the corn being cut right now, that most every day is gonna be flocking to that cut corn field. So you would think that the best place would be would be somewhere near that. But you just had this sighting of a buck year after on the other side, UM going into a random place that you wouldn't have thought to hunt except for the fact that you just saw him there. Would you hunt the random spout where you just saw him, or would you say, and that was probably a fluke, I should focus on the spot where probably he'll be absolutely And I always go with what what my eyes have seen and told me, and not what preconceived perfect scenarios and conditions are. I've found so many huge books that hundreds of years ago um in Wisconsin, and spots just like that, heavy plowed fields you could barely walk across them in a bucket. Go better than spots, and nobody's just to walk to that little stick of the brush out there. You'd break your ankles trying to get to there. Uh. Now, if do you think he was diving in there too, bed that he was just gonna go in there and that's where he was gonna lay low? Or did you think he was just traveling from playing to point B or I mean, that's that's the thing is. It's hard to say because he was leaving where I thought his traditional betting or would be, and he was and this is in the this is like an hour more than an hour before dark in the evening, and so he's leaving the main betting area and was going into this little tiny kind of secondary dough betting area. So my thought was that if if that was actually him, like I think it was, maybe he was just checking out one of these little tiny dough pockets and then circling down the next day. I would have been ant set up in that little low thicket for him maybe to do that same thing. Maybe that's the route he's taken from, maybe that's not his territory. Other way, all that prime shouldn't he has to go to that little plot across another plowed field into another whole area. Was where his travel is going out at night that way, um, and that's a little stepping stone to get there. So um, if you thought he was betting there, you can actually just go blow him out of there too in the middle of day and see if feels he was betting an earn held up or and then a spot like that too. Sometimes you don't want to hunt him where at. You want hunt where you're going. So um, you know, maybe you leave. That's not gonna be a good deal for you to go across that ploid field and there's not enough in there a set of stand If you've seen where he came out, you get on the edge of that and you wait for him to make that move and had that direction again, and you can go over on a plouid field where you've seen him come out, go over there and take a look and see the tracks he left behind. If there's three or four sets of him going that way, he's doing that pretty damn consistently, and you know that you've you've found something that nobody else is gonna even think. You got the honey hole. Man, he just got you know, um there it's it's been keyed up for you already to go do it. So yeah, yeah, I'm gonna that that that's that happened last night. So I'm I'm going out there tonight and uh and gonna gonna go over to that spot where I saw him, because, like you said, even though it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, it seems like you shouldn't you should here's the worst what's the way worse? Nay, And you sit on the field edge he comes out again, and that's not worst case. It's probably best cage and you kill it the damn thing going out. You sit there and you don't see him come out that way tonight, and then you get down, or before you go, I would even look around and check them tracks. You get it pretty excited if you see that there's a trail actually started on the beginning of that beat PLoud Field and he's said in that way, and now you know you've got him coming that way. Now you're just gonna be concerned that he gets out there early enough where I think it's getting to where they're moving a little worse right now. By if I recall, Um, it's like getting later and later. But uh, you know, you learn something, you sit it, and you take a shot at it. That's a worth kill one. So would you rather be sitting there at a chance at that or on a busy field with a shipload of dolls and small box and um having a good old time looking at all that action or yeah, or getting out to where you want what you want sit or look you know, Yeah, Yeah, that's that seems to be the thing to do. So it seems like it's either going to be one of those sits where I see nothing or I see the one I want and and I guess when you're after a buck like that, that's what you gotta do. Yeah, And there's nothing wrong with see a day or somethhere you learn something new. Or yeah, I want to I want to rewind the tape just a little bit back to a foul up question I had when it comes to the buck locked on a dough situation, because this is this is something I want to make sure recovered. You talked about the fact that when you see that, you should move right in there into that whatever that most likely travel corridors for that dough and be there to hopefully intercept them coming back or forth, um again the next day. But how long will you how long would you give us about like that? Would you say just the next day or would you give it a couple of days because it might be two or three days there together. That's ah. Um. If it's like I said to rub on a trail, that's a I mean, it's happening right then and there. It's you know, you're you're doing that, You're you're setting up, you're hunting right you know. It's almost like there isn't a delayed time to us. So there you're like that, you're not getting um times of the essence. You know. Once once he breathes that dough and it's he'll take her out somewhere that um, nobody's getting to an other bucks and other people and a breeder. It's and it's over. So you just you capitalize on sign as quick as you can, just like you did there. You're seeing something, you move on it now tonight. Then you see something else from there, you move on. You don't you don't backpedal, and you don't wait. Um uh. You want to be on a red hot sign, purchase it you'll you'll be in the game, UM like you've never been before. You your opportunities and your chances are just gonna start going up for you. UM, I'm seeing it on a page do I'm reading stories from guys Deppen him hauling around for ten years, six years. They got mobile, they got aggressive, they went in and they got a freaking done. Um. You know what's your level of aggression. It's it's hunting and you know, go hunt them down. And UM, you're literally like a world hunting them down. And your stand is your set up at the point that you're gonna you're you're gonna try and ambush. I mean, also stick with the hot sign and keep keep going. You're good percentages will be away in your favor than just now. Are guys that got there old. You know, I sit back and wait until the ship hits the fans that I go on that you know that's fine for you if that's what works for you, um, or you know you got um whatever scenario would be. You know you got this perfect stand. You need this perfect wind to hunt the spot. So the spot's red hunting red hot, and you're not getting the perfect wind, why not take a portable and going to manipulate that spot right now it's red hot, instead of waiting for the ship to peter out and missed the boat. It doesn't make any never made any sense to me from from day one. Soul Um. You know I heard you. I can't remember where I saw this, but you were talking about this idea of finding a red hot spot like that. But you mentioned that a mistake a lot of people make is that they're afraid to over hunt a spot like that. So the hunted a day and then they think, oh, well, the first hunt's done. Uh, I should go somewhere else, But you said that, no, Um, you need to keep pounding it because if you leave, it's gonna fizzle out. Um, you hunt it while it's hot. That's so, that's traditionally October hunts earlier. You know, your best time in is your first crack. Uh. Then you've kind of polluted a little bit, you kind of Um, Um, I got a deer to one one up. But when you start getting more towards the rock and all that, and you get this, you get a spot that's like a freaking zoo. None of them dear to give a shot anymore. They're gonna. They're just they're running. And it's where you would watch those I would check trails up and up in Wisconsin and Nicola, I had open hardwoods i'd hunted, and there's a faint trail that would go around the edge of the swamp on the edge of the um the hardwoods and where the traditional betting was. And I remember every year I would just be anxious. I always go over and look at that trail, and I go over there and look at that trail. And then one day I go over look in that trail and overnight the thing is just beat the freaking mud. It looks like a all of them deer running that trail. It's the same amount of deer running that trail and they're just running back and forth up and pretty rough before that rock where and they're just it's it's red hot. Everything's happening. Time to sit that trail. But get on there and and stay on it because it's um you know. Like I said, I've gone on bump bucks that seeing me bump them and came right back. They don't give a shoot. So hunt it well. It's hot, and when it fizzles out, then then move them. We'll find the next hot spot. Um, and so when all the time, yeah, you know you're gonna you're gonna capitalize. So when you say fizzle out, basically you mean don't stop hunting that spot until you stop seeing the deer you're interested in. If you're sitting there, and if it's been three days, they keep seeing it, still using it, you hunt it and all of a sudden, now you know, the next day comes around and the deer don't show and they move or whatever, then then you get done and start poking around again, go go after a middle Yeah, now what about We kind of talked about some specific situations related to hunting the rut with lockdown doors or hunting those evening sits by food sources. But what about mornings Because for a lot of people, mornings are what people think of is like your us to run opportunity that because late morning movement and cruising and chasing, and where are the spots you're focusing on for the first part of the day during these November hunts. So if it's uh that time of year, and like I mentioned, you have traditional spots that are good that you've so, um, if I mind my farm here everywhere I got stand set in these certain areas. It's in the perfect spot for certain wins, um, sometimes for multiple wins. But if there's a deer traveling through there, you can get them shot there. Um. So you're gonna start now, you're gonna start, just start balancing around. You're gonna hope if it's still a deer that you're looking to get, you're gonna hope it's gonna be luck that he just happens to come through there. Now that spot that day, um, for whatever reason it is, it's not pattern, but you have a spot that you know it's good that you know you can get ship killed. It's a good set clean um, a good opportunity it comes through there. And if it doesn't, you could try and sit that again. It's like rolling the dice or you jump to the next spot that's really good um and hot and you go you go sit and you said that, and you just start bounce around and you see something you like and if you see something you can slide over the portable or um, what are these what are these spots? Though? Yeah, because you're saying that you're hunting a traditionally good spot that is safe from a win perspective. It kind of makes me think, like you're saying like therese are pinch points or you know, so let me tell you what I think about pinch points. Dear, no pinch points there live there and know it's a pinch point that there there's a So when I hunt those most spots, I kind of like to sit out where I can cover anything getting through a pinch point, cause sometimes geographically they have to go through the spots, and I don't think do you really like to do that? Um? I think the guard gets up on that. So and let's just the rock. It's deer that never been through there before, don't know the area, good flying, But um, I'm more hunting, you know, specific early it don't then start your tough got an open gate that the deer can walk right through, and then the big buck just jumps the fence forty down froment and cuts it short and doesn't go through it. You know, I just, um, not a big fan. But the g you know, I got areas here that are big draws on both sides that or maybe a hundred yard to cross. If a deer is coming through there, it's got to come through from one room wall to the other. Um, and I have those spots where over the years I watch and I see how the deer moved through them, and somebody's bucks will climb up a mountain like you won't believe, cross the bottom and climb up another mountain on the other side. But over the years you'll notice that all the biggest deer seem to do the same thing in that area. So you you set up a stand for that spot, and if a big buck is traveling through there that day, whatever big bucket is you're set up from, you know, you get your crack at them. Um, how about this uh situation like that. Let's say we we've found a spot like this, it's and we've we've we've never hunted in there, but we've seen this big I don't know, big oak that's in the middle of what's obviously a betting area. And over the years you've you've seen big bucks past this tree over and over and for whatever reason, you never hunted there. But well, let's say the reason why you never hunted there is because it's like smack dab in the middle of the bedding and there's no doesn't sound like a very good Yeah, it sounds't gonna get one good hunt of that, and then the jinx is gonna be up and every freaking deer that comes through here's gonna all um So that was so would you just never hunted or do you know if if I've seen a big deer going by there, I would go take my one crack at it right and um uh. And it could be a spot that throwing the rut dear travel through that. There might be every week or every day. It could be a different buck going through there. That's you're getting a fresh ambush on them. What trisially happens to spot like that when you hunt them early, then big alpha dos we'll learn that that's a tree that's being hunt out of it, and they will really be um cautious on coming through. I had it this morning. I'm gonna this is the most phenomenal little spot where they trickled through and by to go to bedding, and the deer kind of no. I dropped my hat, I believe it or not. And I always carry an extra hat, so climbing alway on a tree, I put another one on. But these big alpha dolls where they would have traditionally just came through, I'm hunting on the right wind. I'm really careful about what I do there. Um, I don't have anybody else not all spots they get through and go about their business. Bucks will follow through. But now because there's a freaking hat land there and they're getting a little sent from down although as you know, they stop start looking around, looking up in the tree at you, and just um and all of a sudden, you know, they learned that that's an ambush spot in that big Mama's in a show. Every other doll coming through that stay away from that tree, slide over here, and then you're ruining a you're ruining a really good spot. And also, um, you gotta be careful on not scenarios like that. So yeah, So if you had let's say a week let's say we're in a weeklong rut vacation and you've got an area like this where you know there's a spot in the middle that's amazing, but you also know what you just described. If you go in there, a lot of deer gonna wind you. Um. So if you've got a seven day run hunt, would you hunt the edges of the downward edges of the area and and just wait until the last day or something. I was still up for a good set. I wouldn't go all that because you know, you screw up the doll that's coming through first, and and the money loads what's after her. So you you still got to be able to have a good clean set where deer can get through there. Would I'll be a molested not knowing they're being hunted to get your crack at a um. You know that big deer. If you start educating every doll that's in there that you're in that tree and they start staying away from it or creating all kinds of havoc, it's not a good deal, soul Um. Some of them spots are just not vulnerable, brother, or they're just there's not the timber there. But traditionally I'll get in some pretty small little trees, reggae trees on the edge of that. And and you've heard the term. I think I've heard. I know I read that before it was Bill Winky wrote an article about hunting the fringe. You don't whatever really want to be in the midst of the pot. You want to be in all the chast that goes on. It's even though they're traveling like a main trail. Just think all of the interactions and the walking off to the right as rail and the left the trail on the bullshits it goes on. You want to kind of be on a on the fringe of that where you can get the job done but not not really mess it up, you know. Um, Like, I had a uh, some guys that told about a good spot once and there was like three trails that branched off and they were sitting in the in the middle trail. They set up on him, like, what the frick are you doing? There's there's never gonna be a scenario that that's gonna be good. There's gonna be something down when you off the side. Every time get off the side, way off the side of one or three, and the ones that are on the fire trail you you don't get. But everything coming through a trail one and two you get. And then the opposite you know, when you go on the other side and you hunt it, you're parking a fricki permanence stand the middle of that. You just probably ruined that spot for antibody else for the future. Um, you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense. So I think allot of it's this common sense with yeah, well, it's easy to get stuck in overthinking these things sometimes and and yeah, you just gotta focused on the basics and that'll usually do it for you. You you mentioned the funnel thing. I want to dive a little bit more into that. You said that you feel like sometimes he's deer feel uncomfortable being in these funnels. I just I don't know, I just never really liked so is there So if that's the case, then my question is is there any type of funnel that you do still like to hunt? Is there something I like him? But I don't sit smack dab in the middle of that. I'm off where it widens out and the opportunity is. So let's say you get an opportunity at the deer before it gets to be unfocused, or you get the opportunity at the deer after he's made it through the Leary's own and he thinks he's home free, so you're kind of again on a fringe instead a right smack dab in the middle of Tell's gate, you know, just so, not at the narrowest point, more at the top of the kind of situation. And you'll notice someone in them dear. You know, they crawl up on some goofy I ship that you you know, they take it wide or they take it so um, but it's so Yeah. It's interesting how sometimes you find the sweet spot the wind's right and everything it's in right area, and it's just just like taking cane from a baby. And other spots they are spot they're just um, not honible, and you really can't learn a lot of them until you get in there, and you, especially on a new set, you do all education you can and what you've known about thermals and about wind direction and everything, and it almost it takes a sit to learn. I mean, I've said it and I thought, man, it should work, and it's like, man, there's just no way you can ever get away with nothing here. It's I love to be here. I'd love to park it here and have a permanent here, but UM's just not in the cards, you know. That's that's gotta takes some discipline though, to inexperience, of course, but to be in a spot that looks great and feels great, but then you see, oh, ship, it's not It's not what I was hoping it would be. A lot of people would just stick with it and think, well, maybe I've just gotten lucky. Maybe it'll be better next time. So that's set the other day for the scrape. That's right in the right in the bottom. So and this is so here, just thick of this. You're you're in a colosseum and you're in the bottom of it, and all the deer are better than a rim. I mean, that's some crazy ship to be watching. You go to your ship. So I take the creet bottom and I take the lay at the land, and there I get gets set and I know what the wind does. No matter what the wind does direction wise, it doesn't matter when it gets into these draws, even though it might be a north If it hits the draw that's running a little bit one direction, and the winds coming down the draw. So I got a flank trail that's gonna be my bad trail. That's gonna if something comes up. I'm screwed with the wind. But I see there's another big valley off to the left, and I can't even see what my wind bottle. But I know from experience there's an to be a flow of air coming down that draw, and the wind coming down the draw to my right, it's gonna hit that flow of air and lo and behold, I had the one buck that I got all the video on working the scrape come down that and I'm like, the sun of a bitch is gonna you know, is he gonna get me? And he did not have a fricking clue, and the wind was going right right at him, but I think it was hitting that that wall of win directually. I worked perfect. And then I knew the wind was gonna die down and I'm on a creek edge where I'm on the ledge of it and all the therminals are going to just fall into the creek bottom and flow away, And I mean I could have killed the deer um and everything worked out perfect. So now I know a spot that's hot. It's a red hot spot. If a big deer is there next year, it will be a good spot. And I have a tree I know that works for a certain wind northeast, and I'm goals. You know, I might go down there on the northwest and something might be a little different. Um. So it's it's you know that kind of your's a trial and error that you learn stuff like that. So he's speaking the thermal and weird little wind things like that. But you mentioned how your thermals would drove to the creek and then just follow the creek out. Um, do you see that happening just in a location like where you were at there, where you're in the bottom of a big you know draw or will that even happen in flat country? If I'm in flat country and I'm next to a creek in the evening, life fades. So if if the creeks running cricks, obviously it's it's gotta be running there, so I gotta be some great to it for it to be running downhill. So in a perfect scenario on a creek setting, you want to be on the down current side because that's where let's say everything goes just dead com for your setup. If you're up that creek, your sense gonna slowly fall to the ground, and it's gonna slowly fall the direction that the water is running. So uh. In the thermals, it's a powerful blob of air that just moves a little bit of a gust here, a little bit of a gust there. It doesn't do shipped to that massive movement of air moving that way. So you're any and I hunt these field edges that are all everything is coming down no matter what happens. I can't get on the opposite of the field because even when the wind is right for that towards dusk, it's all heading across the field. So now I'm sitting on the opposite side where you think the wind was wrong, and I'm playing that thermal against the wind and the thermals beating the ship out the wind, and I'm getting a with murder. Nobody in the right mind is gonna think I'm going to sitting on that side right now because the winds blowing into the field. It's really not the wind is blowing through the field, but the massive air is going the opposite way, and as it bumps and it grabs that, it slowly goes the right. Then again, did not get I've been getting really good at they should for the last Year's almost surprising myself sometimes with what if you can get them spots figured out for it win direction of thermal and stuff. You're gold man, you can. You don't need anything else, but just don't let any of that air mass hit them there, and you're you should be good to go. And that just comes with experience probably or keep traling error. And I've had spots that you go three ft higher in a tree stand and the winds going in opposite direction you go a little bit lower. Um it's it's I don't select set some engineers, it's about the errors to do what it's gonna do, and it's you don't know what the hell is hitting on the way through all those um draws and rocks and timber and stuff. So some trial and error. But yeah, I guess that's all you can do is get out there, try things, learn from learn from it, and keep trying. So to think about it, always think of this, where would I want my cent to go? In a perfect scenario, where would I like the scent to go? The other night, I want I'd love this scent just so I come off the flat and I'm a little bit of a hill toward the creek, so my sense starts settling. It's not settling on the flat, it's it's on that angle going down, and I want that scent just to slowly pour down to the creek and then just flow that direction with all the other air masks that's going there. And it just it worked out perfect that's exactly what it what it did once once the wind stopped blowing, and then then thermals all tooked over. Um. It was like I said, it's it's an excellent spot. Now now the morning hunt will be a whole another animal. You know, it's um. Now it's a totally different deal there. So uh again, I'd have to probably hunt that, and I probably set up different note on the more. Anyhow, I would get up on a rim and get up a little higher what it's carrying out. So so let's jump a little bit back from the wind thing and back to just standard hunting the rut in November. We we we talked a little bit about what you're thinking when food sources. We talked a little about what you're thinking about for those morning hunts, pinch points, um, We've talked some about betting areas. Does this change at all as the month of November progresses? Is there something different you're doing mid November versus the very first few days versus the last week. Yeah. So let's say the ruts pretty much cooked. A lot of those are bread and then you have these I think traditionally a big run hunters say that that's really your chance that your biggest deer that they'll these big bucks are all welling up and there they're gonna go start. Now they're gonna travel big, vast amounts of distance looking for sub scribblers that they can get. Um. Now, you got a deer that's coming through a property that's not on all the little intricate as raw as this, where that we got big big ravines or big crick bottoms that come up with with the cliffs on both sides. For that week, you'll get deer that coming from who knows where two miles away, and they'll just come and they'll run that hole. There's actually an old logging road that goes up the whole thing, and they just get on that thing and they run through the whole freaking properly, just traveling looking for some little you know, stragger going to heat or whatever. So that's a that's a big travel um. So you'll set her stands for some of the intricate action coming off of those, but you'll include that travel quarter toward which is normally not as great in your in your package. I mean, maybe you'll slide your standover so you get a little of that and you get the normal movement from side to side or um. Are you a spot hog or do you like to sit one solid trail and just get the wind good for that and hunt that wound piece or you try and hog a bunch of three or four trails. Yeah, it's a it's an interesting question. That's something I've been kind of changing on. I used to I used to try to be trying to get as many things going firm as possible, but recently I've tried to switch more towards what do I think is the absolute most likely option and then just be perfect for that one best option. What do you think? It is very tough to manage it all, and as I mentioned, the worst the worst spot in the world is where you freaking you can't watch everything out in front of you. There could be some ship behind the right or left or that is an ugly situation. And I'd like to say that I could I can handle those and manage them, but it's uh, isn't it nice to just be down When I ought to sell of a beat the ship spot where you're just focused and you can sit tight and manage. So there's a little both for that UM going on. I'm curious how many other guys are I like to be the spot hog. She'd like them the more I'm a spot hog, which I still kind like to get as much trampling through, but I don't get as done as much as if you're just a set shot. You know, you know, yeah, here it comes, twenty of your yards will be twenty yards shot coming through when it's perfect, you know, no scenarios and um, yeah, got nice to have that role to but yeah, yeah, which which you know, when it comes to betting area is another rut thing that we've briefly touched on. This kind of goes back to what we talked about a little earlier when it comes to do you want to be right in the middle of them or on the fringes? Yeah, right in the middle would be where the most activity is. There's stuff coming from all over the place. But if you if you can't, if you can't hunt it without deer know when you're there, then it's worthless. So and again, you know, again, a big buckles in there and starts shaking the dose around. Just I don't know if you can look at it and the snow sometimes or just watch it's like they cover every freaking inch that whole area anyhow, So it's at some point in time they're gonna we're gonna get within range where you can shoot them. So let them cut their own throp by. You know, how are you possibly going to sit in the middle of that with them? Do you're running up, down, all around backwards? You know? And what a damn dole is gonna catch her or gonna go this stor um? Yeah, then the jig's up and I would sit. I would sit more of that that fringe it out hunt, the hunt, the down wind fringe. Right? Yeah? Is there is there anything else andre when it comes to the rut that you're doing that that has helped you. That's that's different than most folks or that you that you kind of view as your secret sauce. And again, I know this isn't your favorite time, but I know you've also killed a lot of slammers during November. Um anything any other tricks up your sleeve that we haven't touched on. Uh No, it's just basically at that time, you're even you know, being out there and being the most Um, I know that a lot of slammers is h I almost didn't get or didn't get the because I just just the guy who can't sit late enough. And I do know that I get down and I leave some of the best hunting on the table. But it's just just the way I've been hunting all my life, and it's it's kind of hard to change. I know, when I hunted Illinois, I had never got out there early enough. I always got out there when I don't know how many times I come to my stand there's a monster standing right under it was on its way through that just just late to the dance, you know. So um, some of those spots you almost gotta be there for your evening hunt at like noon, you get in a good setting. I just just not accustomed to that, you know, So, so put your time in right. So it's it's yeah, you gotta put so most guys are, I think are. But again, you can get caught up into spending too much time and not being in the right spot, which is I think a bigger tragedy than um not being in there early enough. You know, so you're you're burned in a spot just you know, you're you're putting hours in it somewhere does not not the hot sign or um you know, or just over the hill. If you looked around a little bit to you definitely pick that spot, you know, Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. That's a tricky thing with a rut in, especially if you're hunting a travel corridor, a pinch point type area where maybe there's not a lot of maybe it's not high deer density, but you know that eventually a good one should come through. That's something I've struggled in certain places. You're not going to see a lot of deer. But half you says, all right, I should move because I'm not seeing much at all. The other half of me says, well, you know, if you you could sit this thing three days straight and the buck you're after might not be in the area at all, but on day three he will come through if you just stick it out. And that's that's a tough one to know if you're wasting your time or biding your time. Um, and at that time of year, like you said, that's it's it could happen. I made us and now is a million times that I could sit on the strict and telephone poll out here in the road during a rug and if I sat there long enough, I could shoot a good deer I actualting off my porch, probably during a rug, but I just don't know if I got to wear it all to climb up a spot, that's just not I'm not feeling it, you know. And just wait for that. I guess That's what I'm saying is I'm not a very lucky guy, so I like to make my own luck, and just the roll advice on that, it's just not, you know. And then for it's the deer that I don't know, it's it doesn't make a lot of sense for me. So I still rather go, you know, why not get down, run a round during a run. You can wear a murder during a rug. You're not messing anything up, you know where you got a little little touchure in October and that. So yeah, and and so tell me just a little bit more. Let's wrap it up with this, because this is something that I used to be me personally a lot of guys, especially in higher pressure areas where there's more hunters. Um, I used to be all year round, just obsessed where making sure no deer ever knows I'm there, and really beating myself up if if a deer did win to me or something went wrong. Um, even during the run. But it seems like sometimes we can get away with being a little more aggressive or getting away with a few bumps here there during November because, like you just said, their mind is elsewhere. UM, would you agree with that? You're talking about this scenario of the day you hunt. But if you think that a deer that when you go to a stand and you hunt it and you leave it and you got away with it that night, if you think them deer in the middle of the night and your travels don't know that something that's been there, I haven't crossed it, you're always going to have UM. So in all the chaos of it, um, you know, I call it the Virgin said, you can mess everything up, and then in that area there is a spot that you didn't mess up where the sign all reads good. And you you work at that point and you hunt that spot. You take a shot. It's your best shot, it's your first time in. You read sign, it's red hot. You can't get any better than that. Then you get down and go find another spot like that the next day, or another spot the next day, or you know, and you keep on the moving it. You know, UM, you have these spots that are just prime and you get down and you go to the next one. That's I mean, I think we got a huntred hundred sets on this property that are all, you know, in good spots if something were to be there, and maybe thirty of them are really active good areas yet to this day that haven't changed. But um, still wonder one of those good spots, you know. Yeah, I mean them those looked up at me. They knew something was up on that tree. But I got the old head massed down and just played played it good and they didn't really get to win. And then they'll be back through there again. It's just one of those spots. I know. They just they just traveled through there and they just um, it's really good consistent spots. So um, some point being seek them out, hunt them down sometimes. But if you're a the right place, um, it's you can get away with a little more if if you know you're the right place. Yeah, And like we go, I mentioned about this property in the middle of it, I have to get it out of here, and I ain't walking, you know, walking three a mile and three quarters back every freaking day in and out of there. So these deer are accustomed to like the farmers, they're accustomed to them. Bikes ripping through there, they're accustomed to sometimes if you're too careful with it. Now it's a different scenario. You're going out there to hunt, and now it's not a norm to them to see the chaos. That might be a worse scenario than you know that been bedding back in there and here and you drive through on your bike, that you're out there again, that's you know, I don't I've never really I shouldn't say that. Years ago I probably felt a victim for that. But what all of scouting and the and the stuff that I do is um that I've learned over the here is I just it does not bother me a bit too even jump a deer on the way in, or um jumped the deer I'm after on the way in, or or have him no one I'm hunting them. I just I just don't let it bother me. So just keep keep moving on him and a man, it's he's only one way that you can avoid it is to get the hell out of this property. Leave and a big deer is there ain't no way I'm getting out of the cell for this property. Leave and I own this property, I live here, and I'm staying too. So so let's you know, let's do the dance. Let's play that, play the game, and then so who comes down on the top? You know, yeah, there you go. Well, I guess if if there's any kind of theme to this conversation, then it's probably go just like all of your hunting. It seems like really the moral of the story to killing bucks or in the rut for you is to find them, hunt them down, and then put in enough time, keep on adjusting, and eventually good things can happen. It's not rocket science. It's simply being smart and hunting hard and hunt where you're at. You gotta be you where they're at if you know they are what they are, and if you're not, um, you might as well be a million miles away if you're you know, if you're ten acres off. So um, alright, Andrea, let's hope some let's some slammer from like three miles away, it comes over and starts to running some bulls in here here, and we'll be I'll be happy if I get a glimpse of one. So I hope so, well, I know you want to get in the stands. So I want to I want to let you go so you can wrap up your other work and go find that slammer. So Andrew, thank you for making the time to do this and and real quick before we do shut it down. Do you have any updates for folks as far as anything with custom gear or YouTube or any other content you want folks to check out? Yeah, so check out a page Mobile Hunters United. Uh see what some of the stories and guys are success stories. Um, you can learn learn a lot from that. After this week, we should have all orders fulfilled that are in the system, and we now should have a little stock for you to these items. And so if a guy gets the bug just before UM, so I guess we're on time. When everybody for the rut. Now for the next it's what guys will be hunting. UM, you should be able to pick up just a bot every one of our models here in the next. Um, we can have two weeks. We should have some stock. UM, so you can order that and and let's sit it hard man send photos. I'd love to hear the stories and and see some of them photos too big and small, UM, so perfect and let me know what Let me know what happens to you this next when you go in there. Now, yeah, I want to I want to get a call. All right, I'm gonna do my best to uh stick an arrow in midnight and I'll send you a picture. All right, sounds good, brother, all right? Thanks, get under all right by and that's a wrap. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Like I mentioned the end of my introduction, good luck in the woods. Have a blast, pushed through the tough times, grind it out, but ultimately, always remember to have fun. This is what we've looked forward to all years. So don't get so stressed out, don't work so hard that it's not fun anymore. As well, you've got to balance those things. Enjoy yourself at the best hunting season in your life, and until next time, stay wired to hunt. H