00:00:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyan in this episode number two and fifty one, and today on the show, we are recapping my two thousand eighteen Michigan rut hunts and then we're joined by Michael Hunt, Sucker and Skyler Worsake of Hartland bow Hunter to chat through their rut success and lessons learned. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx and today to we kind of have like a two part podcast because we have our usual intro that me and Dan like to do, but I feel like it's gonna be a longer intro than usual because we got a lot to share. Um, we haven't talked about my hunts at all for the past couple of weeks. I want to spend a lot of time there and catch up a little bit with some stuff going on with Dan. But then we also do have guests on the show too, So Part one is Dan and Mark bs Extended version. Part two, we are joined by Michael Hunt, Sucker and Skyler Worzig from Heartland bow Hunter, and we're gonna talk about their recent rut hunting success, a couple amazing hunts they had, and kind of use those two stories to dive into their rut hunting tactics, some of the things they've learned, some of the things they recommend that we try as well as we continue on through the month of November and uh and the second half of the white tail ruts. So that is what we have in store. Um but Dan, part one, Part one is you and me. And the first thing I gotta know is are you still kind of soaking and basking in the glory of having filled Riowa tag? Are you on that high still? Are you back down to earth? Um? Well, it's kind of funny, right because tonight I got brought back down to earth hard right I was and here. So if you're the kind of person who hates uh hear the stories of my my life and my kids, you might as well just like fast forward a little bit. I was sitting here in my office right and I had to give my my youngest son and my my two my two boys of bath. Tonight reality came crashing down when the youngest one pooped in the bathtub. I tell you if you are like, he's in diapers R right, I mean he can't get he can't get out. He's like eighteen months I think, or no, eight September, so he's he's only fourteen months old, so he can't he can't say dad, I gotta go, I gotta dump. So he he ended up just going right in the bathroom. And for for any buddy out there who has kids whose kids have pooped to the bathtub, you know, like you know that it sucks cleaning up poop out of a bathroom because because there's two ways to do it right. One there's the stuff it down the drain, which you don't ever want to do, and the other one is you gotta pick it up right. You might and you don't really want to use a drinking cup to like scoop it in. I just go raw dog, pick it up, throwing the toilet, flush it down, wash the hands right. But then you gotta clean out the toilet, Then you gotta clean out then you got to clean out the bathtub. So vacation over came to a screeching stuff. Wow, yikes. I have not had to do anything like that. Quite yet. So, um, it's coming, Bud, It's coming. That's crazy, But I tell you, I'll tell you what though. Man Uh, I've been staring, not necessarily at the rack itself, but I've been staring at the part of the wall where he's gonna hang, and I'm just visualizing what he's gonna look like. That is a good feeling right there, knowing you'll be able to look up at that and and remember that moment. Yeah. Absolutely, So where is it's gonna be in your office? Or is it in like the kids playroom that used to be your man case? No way, dude, I got the okay from the wife to move all my mounts out into the living room. Whoa, yep, that's a big step. Yep. What have you been doing right? Nothing? I don't know. Like maybe she's cheating on me. That explains it, that's right. Oh dude, So you've been looking at the wall mount or we're you're gonna put them ount? Have you been looking at sheds at all? Oh? I'm glad you have smart Kenyan. So I'm sitting here recording one of the nine things your podcast right and I'm closing it down, and as the guys kind of giving his final spiel. I look up at my look up at my wall of sheds, right, I have this bob wire drilled into the into my wall, and then I hang all my sheds off of it. And I look up at this one little shed that I found, and it has the characteristics of the buck I just shot, so I and it's part of a matching set. I pulled it down and I look over next to it, and there's another shed that is from the same area. I like, I have this wall full of sheds, and I kind of keep them all separated, so like one part of the farms over here, one part of the farms over here, A completely different farms hanging over here. So I kind of keep it separated, so I know that everything comes from a specific area. And wouldn't you know when you and Mr Corey Fall came down on that shed hunt, I think it was like two thousand and fifteen. Yeah, me and him found a matching set in a cornfield right in like buffer strips, Right, wasn't the buffer strips of the field. Yep, there's some some taller grass like yeah, buffer strip, erosion strips, whatever you want to call him. He found one on a terrace. I found one in a buffer strip and he's like, you know what, dude, just keep this shed. Because we were split up, right, we didn't know who found it first. He just he gave me the match set and I was like, okay, you know, put it hanging on the wall. It's cool. Mat set. Next year I go out a couple of times, pull another a decent shed off of it, and then that would have been sixteen, and then seventeen, the year of the seventeen um, which would have been a shed hunting season. In March of eighteen, I found it his shed, So I have two. Let's see, I'm pretty sure this is how how it goes. I have his two year old match set. I have a right side from his three year old. I have a four year old. His the big side I found last year as a four year old, and then I killed him as a five year old. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's so. That doesn't happen very often have that many sheds off one tier, especially not where I hunt, because you know, there's so there's so much space for him to rome and they go they go somewhere else, typically h during the winter, like other farms. Have lots of food, food plots and whatnot. But it's kind of cool. This is the first deer that I've ever shot that I actually have shed anglers too. That's awesome. Yeah, man, So how what are you gonna do? Do you have some idea of how you're gonna Are you gonna somehow try to include the sheds with the mount or like place them nearby, or you're like on a table underneath or anything, or you're just gonna keep them up on your barbed wire. Yeah, I'm not percent sure. I would like to incorporate that into the mount somehow, And I think I need to, um go back to my taxi or miss and ask him, you know, if he's got any thoughts or ideas. But uh, yeah, I'd love to have maybe like some kind of cool braided rope or something hanging down off of the backside of the mount that I can slip at least the big one in the one I found from the year before. Um, but I don't know, It's it's just I don't know. I love shed hunting. Yeah, I'm right there with it. I was already. I can't remember what I was doing. I think I was just driving and I found myself daydreaming about shed hunting season, and you realize that you're in a weird place if it's the middle of the run and you're already daydreaming about hunting, right right, Yeah, Um, but no I did. I haven't. I haven't been out hunting since. Um. I'm gonna try it that my my wife wants to go uh shotgun hunting this year or take part in the shotguns season. So depending on what the weather's like and how busy we are, if we can find daycare, I think I'm gonna take her out. But other than that, man, just back to the grind and I sit back, and I always think, like, dude, hunting is hunting so much fun? Right? And and I love killing deer, especially when it comes you know, it comes to truish and a couple of days into your ruccation. I mean, I shot my dear. I shot my deer on Sunday and I found him on Tuesday, and he was in the taxi ter missed by what Tuesday? By Wednesday afternoon, and my season is over, right, especially for archery. So I love watching the rut unfold. And it's just one of those things where you I'm sitting back in a cubicle now wish and I I wasn't tagged out. It's crazy. This is why you need to start hunting out of state dude. Trust me, I know, I know. I couldn't even imagine what it would feel like fill your tag on November three or whatever it was, and then just be done for the year. That seems like appalling to me. Right, So part of that lack of preparation on my part, I I feel that next year I'm gonna have a backup planned so that if I do tag out early again, I'm gonna have someplace to go so or I have a Oh, like, I don't know whether it's gonna be out of state rut hunt or if it's gonna be like a mid to late October out of state hunt. Yeah, there's I mean, there's so many good states in your neck of the woods there you can get to relatively quickly. Um, it's not like I'm forcing you to go to Michigan and hang out with the peasants slip or something. Right. Oh, and I got one more thing for you before, and I definitely want to start hearing the story about your your rut. But Okay, So there's been reports, you know how I said all the big deer kind of disappeared this year. There's been reports that we have had a big h D outbreak in in the area. Now, typically, I've never personally had any of that on my farms that I hunt, like I've I've never gone out and found a ton of dead deer. So when farmers and other guys start talking about it this time of year, you know something's up right, because I'm hearing a lot of things where hey, I got I had some big deer not show up, and I've had our and or guys finding some dead heads already. So I'm just kind of curious what shed hunting is gonna bring, What what my trail cameras are gonna show after the rut is over, when I go back to check come again, you know, to see if some of the big deer actually did show up or if they didn't. So that's scary. Yeah, I know, I know. But let's hear about you, because I know that you're chasing a a really good mature buck in Michigan that you've been playing cat and mouse with for it seems it seems like it's the same story, right, You're it's just not holy Field. Yeah this uh yeah, it just seems to be what happens to me now is like getting in with these bucks and getting these interesting back and forth. But but yeah, man, I what's it is? The fifteen in November, It's been fourteen straight days I've been hunting, and then before that was a two day break for meetings that I had to go to, and then before that it was eight or nine days before that straight. So what's that? Eight plus fourteen is twenty two days out of the last twenty four I've been hunting, I think um or something like that. And I'm getting a little worn down, my friend, I'm wearing down, wearing thin um and some just some just crazy close calls. I I don't know, man, there have been some front very exciting moments with a very frustrating moments. So I guess let me, let me just give it to you, and you feel free to pry wherever you've got questions or thoughts as I kind of run through this, um but you know, having Nebraska hunt, great hunt out there, came back, and um, I knew that I had that hunt, and then I knew that I had to go to Montana for two days of meetings, right in my typical time frame that I'm starting my runt hunts. Um, I was gonna have to be gone on Halloween and November one, so I was kind of terrified about that. Um My plan had been to start hunting on Halloween for Holy Field. So get back from Nebraska. Decided to start hunting a couple of days right after that because I'm gonna miss Halloween November one, so I hunt. I think it was like the maybe or something like that, kind of uneventful hunts. Didn't see much Young Bucker two. Um, there's these two bucks that I have been talking about in the past, Um, Survivor. Do you remember were talking about Survivor in the past. He's this deer that I thought was a three year old last year, and so I was passing him and hoping he'd make it to be a four year old this year. But I started seeing him this year, and after getting a bunch of pictures and now a whole lot of sightings of him, I actually realized that I must have overestimated him last year. I'm pretty sure he must have just been a nice looking two year old last year, because this year, I just don't see any way he's any older than three. Um, so survivors a three year old this year, so he gets the pass again. And then there's this other buck um who I've started called Tran, who is also a really nice three year old. Um so those two bucks are on the past list. Uh So, coming in you know this time frame, I'm seeing these dear bunch still waiting on holy Field, hoping he's going to show up, hoping that yeah. Um, let me think about this. I've had them like right on the edge of shooting range, like if I not like a slam dunk shop. But I'm just sadly I don't want to shoot him, right, I'm kind of at the point where I it just a four year old is what gets me excited now in this area. So I would love to see these two deer make it. Um. But other than those two deer and a bunch of like other two year olds and year and a half olds and stuff, I hadn't been seeing anything mature at all. So I was coming into this rut thinking, man, if holy Field doesn't show up, I might be hunting but nothing. There might not be a single deer I'm interested in hunting. So I go to these meetings in Montana, and as I'm in Montana, I get a tip from someone who saw a really definitely a mature deer, a nice buck that was out on this property that could hunt. I get this tip and then I get a tip that they also saw this deer the next day too. So the two days that I'm gone, this new mature deer is on this farm I can hunt. So I'm finding this out and I'm like stressing, not like of course, like the one time I have to be gone on Halloween November one, a shooter buck shows up. I finally have a deer I could hunt. It's a nice deer and I'm not there and this is a deer that after I got to see him, turns out it's a deer. I know. This is a buck that in two thousand sixteen, I got one trial camera picture of him in December. He was a three and a half year old, nice ten pointer. In the following spring, I found his shed. This was that year I was looking for holy fields, looking for holy Field shed and I found this really nice one. Was my best Michigan shed ever. Um And it turns out though it wasn't holy Field. It was another buck. So that's that nice Michigan shed I found in spring of seventeen. And then in last December, this mystery buck shows up on the property I can hunt. One day in late December, ME and further are hunting and this buck goes running across the property and I see him, like, WHOA, that's a nice buck. Never seen that deer before. Um, I saw him then. And then fast forward to January. See this buck once more. Um on a different property, neighboring property out there feeding in a bean field, missing one of the sides, so he shed. So then this spring I went over to that property at permission to shed hunt and I shed hunted the scoured at trying to find this deer's antlers couldn't find him this year. But never really expected to actually be a hunt this deer. He only she was on the I saw him once during the London season last year once, got pictures of him once the year before that. Um, never a deer that's consistently on the farm I can hunt, But now here he is on October thirty one. In November one, my wife decided to call this buck Frankenstein because the fact, he was first sighted on Halloween, so I'm calling Frank. Call him Frank, Big Frank for short, or Frank for short Big Frank if you want to give his full name. Uh So, Halloween he's seen, November one, he's seen. I get home, I fly like a red eye. I get home at like, God, what time is it, I don't know. I think I got to bet at like one thirty or two am when I got home. That would be at the morning November two. And then I'm back up at five am or four third am to go get in the tree. That morning, I hunt up in the area of this property where he had been seen that day November two, but I don't see him at all. I think I saw a survivor, and I saw a bunch of other young bucks and does but nothing. So my assumption was well, kind of like what I expected. This buck probably just got on a hot dough, came over from whatever farm he usually lives on, happened to spend two days with this dough locked on the proper diamond, and then he booker back to his home range. I missed my opportunity back to square one. Still don't have pictures of Holy Field those segings of holy Field. I think by this day, like November two, I might shared on Instagram that I kind of mentally turned the page and the fact that I just don't think that Holy Fields around anymore. Um yeah, I mean at this point I should have had something. I should have seen him, I should have had a picture. Um. I know there's still a chance, but I think it's a very very slim chance, given he used to be such a home body and so visible and always on cameras and now nothing I've had dear that just like what you described, they went away for a year, came back. Yeah, so don't ever count them out until you know, yeah, that's true. And so I'm holding on to hope. But at least seems like this year it's not happening. Um. And then that has continued to be the case since that point. So November two, nothing great happens. But UM, I kind of decide, all right, I'm basically going to be hunting for a random buck unless this frank deer happens to show up again. Um, or maybe I'm just gonna start hunting does here earlier because because I just don't want to shoot in these three year olds Well, November three, I'm hunting back in one of the main betting years. It's gonna hunt. Nothing happened. So for the evening I decided to move up to the front of the property again to that same area where Frank had been seen, to just try one more time. And about an hour and a half before dark, a dope pops out into the food plot, and with the wind direction I had, I couldn't hunt this front. You've heard me talking about a thousand times before. It's the same little front food plot section where hunted. Holy feel a bunch um and that just historically it's it's been a pretty good spot for having Bucks followed does out. It's one of the main spots that does come out in two and this time you hear this. Bucks sometimes chase him out there. So I couldn't hunt right in the plot and get shots into the plot because of the wind. I kind of had a hunt the very southern tier of it, or the southern edge of the timber just beneath it, so I could at least see into there, but I didn't want to blow my wind and tell us all this betting. So about an hour before dark, like I said, dope pops out, and then I just see times come out of tall grass and it's frank and he's a nice buck. And um, I watched him go out into the food plot following this dough. He walks right in front of my tree stand and my bail blind that I have set up on this thing. I'm just sitting like, oh gosh, how far how far is he from you? At this point? Probably eighty yards? Um? And he's he gets to within five yards of my bail blind, and he probably is like fifty yards from the tree stand. Um. But I just I could not have hunted either one of those spots because of the wind. It was blowing straight from them into the bedding where I assumed that if this buck was here, he'd be back in there, and I knew I could hunt it. So long story this is, I'm watching follow the dough. I'm thinking my head, Okay, he's out of range. I could try calling, but I just kind of see what he's gonna do where this dough is gonna take him. And if it gets to the point where I know he's not gonna come my way, then maybe I'll throw a hell Mary like challenge him with a snort, weeze or something. I don't I didn't have very high high hopes of pulling him off the dough. But sometimes maybe you get him a storm over forty yards and stare you down, and maybe I get a shot. So I watched him for a long time. He's locked on this dough. I actually watched him breed this dough right in the middle of my food plot, um, right in front of my blind and I'm wanting sitting, you know, sitting in the saddle yards away watching that. So that's the first time I've ever seen I think that might be the only time I've ever seen a buck brad of dough. Definitely the only time I've seen him mature buck like this bred of dough. UM. So very very cool to get to see that. I mean, just like an incredible encounter. Um. But the the story ends sadly and that she finally takes him away, takes him off into the thick stuff. I tried snort reason at him. He looked at me. He took a few steps, puffed up. I mean he looked like he he looks like that kind of buck that beat you up. Um. But he did not end up coming my way. And he just filed the dough went up into this thick, brushy grassy junk that um that he'd been seen in in the past. So the next morning, my thought process was, all right, he's been in this thicket the last two mornings, I think, or something like that. Last two days he was in the thicket with a dough. I thought, all right, there's a good chance he's gonna be over there again. And if that dough transitions back through here, maybe if she'll stop in the food plot in her way back to the bedding cover. So with the wind direction I had, I had to take a really big, long roundabout way around the whole north side of the property and sneaking from behind, crossed the creek and then to get up into this bail blind. And while crossing the creek, it was it been raining in the past. I don't know if if when was this. I guess this is November four or something. Been raining a lot in the days before. So the creek was really high. I wore hip hip waiters in and it still went over my boot. It kind of slipped and it filled my boot so soaked my socks and leg. Before the hunt, so I get into the bail blund. Yeah, it wasn't a good start getting the bail blund. I'm wet. I just take off my ak, I take off my boot. It's a disaster. But I still feel like he might be up in the sticket. If he's up in the stick, and he might come by. And I was really excited about that. So I can't remember half an hour hour after daylight something like that. Um, I see this dough in the tall brushy thicket stuff working our way back towards the cover, back towards me, and I'm just watching behind or watching behind or watching behind, and then bam, there he is. They're back in there again. So they start coming down. But I see that they instead of coming back on the north side, which is where I was, now, they they're coming back on the south side, which is where I was the night before. Now, the wind that I had is what made me think I should go to the north side and stead of sitting in the sand spot I was act So I kept having to make these adjustments because of the changing wind directions. I wanted to be in this little area but just make sure I wasn't gonna get winded. So unfortunately, he switched sides on me. And while this is happening, I'm watching the dough and watching the He's maybe a hundred yards way now, just they're taking their sweet time, kind of just slowly. She's kind of feeding on maple leaves and stuff. He's just standing behind her, occasionally rubbing on a tree and stuff. Um. At this point, I'm going to share a story, Dan, that that you will never hear Marjuri share. You will never hear John Eberhart share a story like this. You will never hear Don Kisski or Steve Ronnella or anyone respectable in the hunting world. They will not share this story. I'm gonna I'm gonna share this story because I know that people need laughter in their lives, and I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna ask you all to reserve judgment. Don't don't judge me. Fast forward if you want to, if you want to continue thinking of me as a respectable adult. Um, because what happened in the next moment is the most catastrophic moment of my entire hunting career. Dan, Okay, I'm watching this big mature buck following a dole kind of slowly making their way towards me, but not quite. And I have the most devastating rumbling stomach, like bad, and are you in the You're in the blind. I'm in the blind. Okay, good, I'm in the blind. And I have a bad situation coming together. And I know this, and I'm thinking like, Okay, hold together, you are not gonna have an emergency while this buck is coming towards you. Hold together, Hold together, Hold together. And my body keeps telling me Mark, this is happening, This is happening, this is happening. And I keep on trying to think. I'm like, I mean, this is full blown, like contorting my body in any way I possibly can to try to maintain control of what's happening. But eventually I realized I have lost control of the situation. This is an hour never moment you. This is fight or flight, adrenalinism pumping. Every part of my body is on edge. I'm trying to figure out how do I handle this situation without scaring away this deer that's walking near you. So, in a moment of pure panic and sheer, I don't know. I found my hands off. I dug a hole in the bottom of the blind with my hands while tearing off my jacket. I ripped off my bibs so fast that I broke the buckle of the bibbs, and I was in a backwards crab position over a hole inside of my bail behind while watching the mature buck out the window and dealing with my situation in what I now call the poop blind. Yes, yes, I'm glad. I'm glad you did that. I know because I would have got mad at you if you went outside and spooked the deer. Oh no, I would have done the exact same thing, Mark, So no hate, no judgment. But yeah, man, you got you can't spook the deer. I mean, I'm notorious for sky dumping, so it's not like I'm gonna like judge a guy who poops in in his own blind. Yeah. Man, we're now, We're now two peas in a pod. That's right. So I took care of my business. I buried that stuff, put my chair back over top of it. I'm hunting again. So you have to cut a sleeve off the shirt? Oh no, fortunately have. I always keep TP in my backpack just in case the situation like this arises. But I was down. I wasn't down one bib buckle because of it. Um. And then I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, I sure hope nothing comes down winto me, because even though it's buried, you know, I just didn't know what the situation was going to be. And like, did I just burn out this blind for the rest of the season. I just didn't know. And I'm texted. I text my buddies afterwards, and they're just dying. And but I kept eyes on the buck. I kept eyes on the buck the whole time. He didn't spook, he didn't hear anything, and didn't smell anything. Um. I kept all the movement below the windows. So it was really about as stealthy and as on point with white Tail best practices as you can get when you have to make an emergency in the blind movement. UM. So I handled that situation. But unfortunately the dough led him away from me, kind of went near the trio's hunting in the night before, so that gave me a hernia um seeing him go so close to where I was at again. Um, but passes passes through heads into the east. And now I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna leave the poop blind because I don't necessarily like the idea of being in that any longer than I have to be, and he went. They transitioned into the bedding on the south side. So I now have this wind direction that does allow me to hunt the bail blind, which I hunt in the morning, or could go to the tree which is in the middle of the system, which allows shots to the north and the south. So my thought process was, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave the poop blind. I'm gonna move to the middle tree stand for the evening because that gives me shots to the north and south. And based off where this dough took him, there's a chance, here's a I thought a better chance that he might be on the south side of the bedding versus the north um. So I'd like to have the options there and the wind would allow it. So move to that stand, gets set up, I see some does some young bucks, blah blah. The evening progresses, it gets towards last light. I still hadn't seen Frank or the dough yet. But last light I see this dough pop out right along the creek, and right behind the dough is Frank and they go walking right by the stupid poop blind, and I can't shoot him. He goes on the north side of the poop blind this time goes directly down wind of the poop blind and never flinches, never stops, never bothered by it at all. So I thought to myself, Man, I I keep my scent control program even in effect when going number two in the blind. So it's proud of myself for that, um. But that was frustrating to see him walk right by where I was hunting the morning before that morning, So I now I had seen him the night before, I saw him the morning, and I saw him in that evening. So I looked back then that that night, I get back to the house, I'm thinking through what am I gonna tomorrow? What's the wind doing? What do I do? And I kept on thinking about every almost every morning though past like five days. He had been sighted in this thicket up at the front. He'd had a dough. And now it's been like five days since he was first seen, and he'd been in this area like four of the last five days. And I didn't think he'd be with the same dough, but he kept on being in this one spot in the morning. So I thought I need to try to get tighter to that spot. I'm gonna I'm gonna operate off the assumption that he's back in there again. And if he's back in there again, three out of the four times he was there, he transitioned back to the member. This thin little strip of timber. He transitioned back through that like he did that morning. I just described, so I sorry, I'm gonna do a hanging hunt. I'm gonna get in there like an hour and a half before daylight, hang a new set tight to the thicket. But because of the wind, again, I couldn't go straight to it from the road because that would walk right past where I think he is with the dough. So I went to the far south side of the property, went way down the road to a different access point of this property, way in the south, walked the far southern border now in a big circle to circle around down wind and out, and about came in from behind, snuck in from the back side. Now slipped in there, hung a new set, got into my saddle, and I'm thinking, man, I'm I'm in it. I'm in this area. If he's here, he's gonna come by me with her. If he's at the dough. So first light arrives, I'm pretty excited. I feel like I'm in the right spot. And I look up in like seventy five yards away, there's a tree just getting shook, and here is this son of a gun buck in there again, and he starts walking right towards him. He's like eighty yards and he's a seventy five yards, he's a seventy yards, and I'm like, holy smokes, this is I actually did it. I'm gonna pull off this running guns set more, you know, in the dark, got set up in this spot. I thought I could get aggressive and moving tight to the thicket. Here he is coming right in my way on a string. He's ripped. He stopped, starts ripping up another tree. Grass is like flinging up into his antlers and over on his back. He's like trailing all these long grass strands through his antlers and his ears and stuff. Was really cool. I'm grabbing my bow. I'm kind of swung into position, waiting for him, and then just you know, as he's kind of entering that next I don't know, I don't know how this is for you, but I feel like when you see a deer at like, you know, yards, like he's close, but he's kind of out there. But then you get within like sixty and then all of a sudden, like he's in the zone. So I felt like he was hearts really going. So he's just about to enter the zone and I'm right about to like this is happening mode, And then this dang doll pops out of thicket next to him and goes running off to the north, and he turns and he follows her off that way, and I had to watch this dough and that stupid buck go walking right by the poop blind again at five yards, he stands in front of that blind, munching on brassicas, and she's there and they go back and forth, back and forth, and several times she angles like she's gonna come my way, and I get excited again, and she goes back the other way and and it's gone, and he does it again, and then he goes back and it's very stressful, high intensity, um, but frustrating because eventually she takes him back into the cover and they disappear, and and that was it for that morning. Um. So that was November five or six. I can't remember which day it was, and I hunt that night, Um, don't see them. And now this is where my memory is getting fuzzy. Basically, that is my last encounter with him as I'd seen him four days in a row or three days in a row, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, had the poop blind. Here he is again, goes by the bail blind twice. I'm not there. Then I hunt the bail blind and he doesn't show up, and then I have to leave, which is really painful for me. But I had to leave because I had this meat eater hunt that um, you know, I couldn't get out of. So I kind of happened to me like this meat eat or thing is actually causing you more harm than good at this point, at least for the hunt for this buck. Kind of timing for everything was really bad. Um, but after looking at cameras, maybe it wasn't so bad. But the long story that is that I was hunting with Steve on this new West Michigan property that I permission and I've talked about. Um, Steve was coming down with the crew when we're gonna film it for the show, So I had to that. So we go to this property. I I the main thing I'll share from that whole. That was like five or six days we were hunting there, and it was relatively slow for a lot of the hunt. Um, things just didn't go the way I wanted. There was more activity, and I thought there was gonna be you know, we had we had Steven a cameraman in one spot, we had me and a cameraman in another spot. Uh, Janice was hunting in another spot. And then they had a fourth guy who was filming b roll from another spot. So it was just like people all over the place. And that was kind of hard for me, being a guy that really likes to keep impact low and I'm seeing like four spots getting blown up every morning, every evening for five six days, and in my head, I'm just thinking, oh gosh, this is a disaster. UM. So it just it did not panning out. Me and Steve neither one of us killed a deer. UM. We each did have one close call with a nice buck. He had a really big one UM come into ten yards, but he couldn't get a shot because of um some tree limbs. And then I had um an encounter the heck of an encounter. We were sitting all day. It was about twelve thirty, and um, we've been seeing some bucks chasing dose and stuff that morning, so I was feeling pretty good about it. Was We're deep in this timber along this ridge system. There's kind of a bench that connected to big ridges and bedding, and I assumed it would be bucks cruising this ridge system. And twelve thirty I see a buck cruising, pull up my binos. I'm like, man, that might be that might be a good one. Like we hadn't seen a single mature buck yet, and I'm like thinking, like that looks better than everything we've seen so far. And he comes over the next rise and I look at him again. I'm like, oh, man, yeah, that's a shooter. So I'm like telling my caram like, I'm shooting this buck. And he starts coming in on a string. So I'm excited. Do you remember the picture that I shared earlier this year of that one buck with a huge brow time really just one one big one, yeah, one side, really really tall, a twelve inch brow t r. Yeah, that's this buck. He's the biggest buck that out on camera. And here he is coming right in. Now I need to rewind the clock thirty minutes or so, because it was a really cold morning and I had brought an extra vest with me in my backpack in case I got cold. So around noon, I was like, all right, I'm cold. I need this extra vest on. But it's not an outer layer, it's like an iter layer. So I had to take off my harness. I had to take off my outer jacket. I take off my release, and I put on my vest and I put all that stuff again. No, Now this buck's coming in thirty mins layer the bucks coming in. He's approaching, he's approaching. He pops over the rise and now he's in the zone. He's like forty yards and I'm like, okay, this has happening. He's coming right in. This is the moment where I grabbed my bow, and at this point I usually clip on, right, you clip on your bow and get ready. So I go to clip on and I can't. I reached from my release on my hand and there's no release. I don't have my release on. When I had changed all my gear, I put my release in my pocket while I was putting on the jackets, and then I never put back on. Now I've got this giant deer at forty yards walking right into me, and I don't have a release, so I panic, and the editor, the TV editor is going to have a fun line edit out because in this moment, I say, uh, I don't even know if I whispered. I think I almost like said it. I'm like, oh, I beeped up. I just said it, like, oh I beeped up. And so I've scrambled trying find release. I find out my pocket, I grab it and I don't even know how it did this. I must have been holding onto the ball with my left hand and like somehow, like I don't even know how I did it, now that I think about it, but somehow, I'm trying to get this release onto my right hand and I cannot get it on, like I can't get the strap through the buck I'm like starting to shake because I'm so like it was. It wasn't freaking out about the buck it was like this buck's gonna walk right through in front of me, and I can't get a shot because I can't get my release on. So I'm freaking out. I can't get the buckle through the belt or the strap through the buckle, and I just remember thinking Okay, Mark, slow it down, like, just focus on, just like I can't. I don't know how to describe to you why this is so tough. But it was really difficult in the moment to get this release on. But I got it on, and I was so worried that when I looked up that buck would be gone. But I looked up and there he is at twenty yards broadside, right there, but branches all over the place, like not a single hole anywhere, like nowhere I could thread it through. And he's he's there. He's huge. I mean, this is the best Michigan buck this if I would if I were to have killed this buck, he would be my biggest Michigan buck by far. Okay, Um, you know, he's definitely mature, five and a half years old, probably pushing like one fifty, which is a mega giant in Michigan. And he's right there twenty yards. I've never been that close to a Michigan buck that big, and there's nowhere I can get a shot. But ten yards ahead of him, I see an opening. So I positioned myself, Alright, fine, this is great. I'm ready. I'm clipped on. He's just gotta go ten more yards and he starts walking that way. I'm about to drawback, and then he hits a wall of scent. Wind had shifted back just a little angle, and he hit that thing like he ran into a concrete wall. And he just spun around and bounced off and that was it. And then I like melted down after that. I was like shaking like a leaf that at that point. So here's the question I have for you. Did you have any shot at him before he was broadside at twenty yards let's say, if you did have your release on. Yeah, that was the big question. And so after the encounter I looked and looked on like could I have shot if I had my release and I was prepared, could I have shot him? And there was zero opportunities, not a single place I could have shot him until he got past the wind um. Unfortunately, this that this is the one spot, like this is the down wind side of the stand, that it was the one spot we don't want dear to go. And so we you know, hadn't cleared anything there in retrospect, should have had something, but everything was in a rush. Nothing had been cleared that we had shots everwhere else, but not to that spot, and so I felt better about the scenario because of that. If if he had if I could have had shots and I missed on those shots because of the release, I would have wanted to jump out of the tree. UM. So I felt a little bit better about that. The only thing that maybe I would have done different if I had had my release on and I wasn't scrambling for five or ten seconds to do that. Maybe what I could have done is if I've been thinking about it and in the moment, maybe I would have thought, oh, wow, he's approaching where our down one side is I need to try to turn him. Maybe I could have done a light grunt pointing the other direction and maybe could have convinced him to change his angle of travel a little bit, maybe and pulled him in the other way. UM. I don't know if that would have worked or not, But that's the only other thing I guess I could have done differently if I hadn't had the release debacle. Um. But more than likely probably would have just continued on the path he wanted to be on and they would have still winted us UM. But that was that was the closest call I've had with the buck like that in Michigan. So to have it be right there after, you know, at that point, I've been like ten or eleven days straight of hunting and all these close calls of Frank and so afterwards I was shaken, and all it was like adrenaline. I kept like I was just like I kept saying, gosh, dang it for suwhere I kept like gosh, dang it, Gosh dang it, And the cameraman must have thought I sounded a complete idiot. And then he looks at me. He's like, he's like, are you shaking because of the cold or what's going on? And I'm like, no, man, do you realize that just happened, Like that's my one opportunity of the year. I'm not going to have another opportunity dear like that this year. And it's gone. And it was there and gone. It was so close, like to have that deer at twenty yards and not be able to get a shop. Oh and and that was basically it. You know. I had a few more days to hunt, saw some young bucks, um nothing came together, went back to the home property to play place closer to where I live. I have been hunting the past few days, no more signs of Frank Um, no sightings. Yeah, and now the Orange Army comes out, right, the Orange Army came out today. Uh yeah, And I haunted today. I usually don't hunt here during guns season, but I did just because it's hoping maybe this deer you know, might be around. Still didn't see him, but a lot of gun shots. Every gun shot I heard, I'm just thinking my head, Oh no, he's dead. He's dead. That was it. Um, But you just don't know. So um Man, it's been fourteen or fifteen days straight. I'm tired. Um, I got brownie. The Brownie points, amazingly are still in effect. Like, my wife has been total champ. She's she's gotten to a new level this here. Man, I don't even understand. I don't deserve it. Um. She like when I got back from Nebraska, was gone for like six or seven days in Nebraska, you know, on that hunt. And when I came home, she went and bought a bunch of groceries for my rut hunts, like for my all day sits and everything. So she had like all my like rut hunting snack and stuff I'll prepared for me. Um. She made a bunch of like frozen breakfast burritos, so that each morning I could wake up and pop one of those in the in the microwave and have a nice breakfast each morning for our head out for the all day sit. Um. You know she's she's constantly keeping tabs on like she's able. You know, she drives by and see some of the properties that can hunt, just kind of checking them out, seeing if there's a deer out in the field. Let me know what's happening. Um. She Today she went there's this website called Michigan buck Pool UM. It's basically a Facebook page where they share like everyone's buck pictures from Michigan and UM. Today I went to a local buck pool, UM, and like a meat market here, there are a bunch of people show up. I don't they don't do buck poles and I would do that. No. So for those who don't know, it's a thing that I think it's like in the Upper Great Lakes region. This is a thing where people like gas stations or butcher shops or um. Even at your deer camp and stuff, you have like a buck pool where you ever, but he brings their bucks and you hang them up and then you see them and people mill around and talk about them, and there's big buck contests and different things like that. So there's a local um butcher shop here that does us has a great big buck pole deal, and so I went there tonight and we're there scolpting it out, trying to see if Frank had been shot by someone else. We didn't see him. And as I'm driving home, my wife calls me. She says, I looked all through Michigan buck Poole, looked at all the pictures. I don't see Frank on there, like she was scouring to see if Frank got killed by someone else on Facebook. I mean, um, she's really Uh, she's one of the kind. I got lucky. So I got back from my rutcation and my wife left town. Joke. She was just she was done with it. Yep, She's like, okay, I'm out of here and went went it's all one of her friends in a different town, and uh came back refreshed. That's good. I'm glad she's back on on even ground and everything's everything's good in the Johnson household, right right, as good as it could be can be, because it can be. Yeah. At least you get a short roccation. Yeah, well, I mean kind of you know, it's a good and it's bad all at the same time. Yeah, well, it is what it is. Is what it is, man, and that's and that's kind of the story of my Michigan season too, Man, it is what it is. I kind of feel like my opportunities are waning. There's always a chance for late season buck, but this, Frank, Dear, I don't. I don't think he lives on the property can hunt. So I think that he was in the area for that spell. Chasing does and locked Onto does, and he's probably back to wherever his home turf is again and I might not see him again. I'm holding out a little bit of hope. You know. He spent more time than I would have expected, so who knows. Maybe he'll swing back through during late season again, like he has been there once a year the last two years, So maybe he'll hang out a little bit late season and I'll have a chance. But if not, if not, there's no bucks for me to hunt at all on that property at least um, So I'll probably earned a dope patrol soon and hopefully get back to the West Michigan property a little bit because there are bucks to hunt there. Um, and that's going to be kind of the story of my season. It was it kind of put all my eggs for the Rut into Michigan, into the Michigan basket. I usually don't do that, right, I usually go to Ohio or iiO or something, and um, this is the first year and like ten years I think that I just hunted Michigan during the rut and um didn't come together. But I did have close calls with two with two mature bucks, which is which is pretty good for this state. So I can't complain too much. I've been kind of bumming about it. I've been kind of hard on myself because it was like, felt so close and it didn't happen. Um, And now you know, I'd say it probably won't happen now the gun seasons here. But I'm trying to trying to focus on the silver line that I had some really really cool counters that most people probably don't have, so UM, trying to trying to stay positive. It is what it is. Yeah, So that's it. That's my long Michigan story. Um, And that's our part one of this episode. I suppose unless you have anything else you want to add. Nope, it's uh. I can hear my kids starting to fall apart in the other room, so that's my sign anyway, all right, good good timing. Then then that we're gonna we're gonna hit pause for part one. We're gonna then shift to part two with Mike and Skyler from Hartland bow Hunter and we're gonna talk about their rud hunts after this quick break. And we want to thank our partners now at White Tailed Properties for the support of this podcast. And I want to give a quick plug for one of their recent videos over on the White Tailed Properties YouTube channel, and this is a quick one they did about how to score a buck. And you know, this is something we've talked about a lot in the past, me and Dan on the podcast that sometimes the scores of deer's antlers gets overblown. We we spend too much time and attention on it, um, glorifying the antlers too much above everything else. And and that's something I think we don't want to do, right, There's so much more to a deer than his antlers. But I do think as long as it's something you're not you know, at least for me personally. I'm not gonna say what you should do, but for me personally, as long as I'm not focusing too much on it, it still can be kind of a fun thing to see, just to help you kind of get perspective about how this deer might match up to others. You know, how to quantify, you know, how unique or interesting or or or or special these antlers might be. YadA, YadA, YadA. I'd like to score on my bucks sometimes just for me to see. And that's why this video is helpful if you want to score your deer and see how they actually do measure up. This video very quickly and easily walks you through how to do that. So it's over on the white Tail Properties YouTube channel. The title is simply how to score a buck and they do a very nice job of explaining it and easy to follow fashion, so check that one out. UM. Like I said, antlers score is definitely not everything, but it can be a fun little of the pie that you even take a look at, and um helps kind of flesh out the story of your dear So check that on and if you want to learn more about white Tail Properties, you can also visit white Tail Properties dot com. All right, and here on the line with me, I've got Mike Hunn Sucker and Skylar worst Sake from Heartland bow Hunter. Guys, thanks for hopping on the podcast with me. Thanks, thanks for having us. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. And I wanted to get you guys on here. Mike, it's been a couple of years since you've been on the show, and I don't think Skyler, we've ever been able to pull you on, so so I'm glad to do it finally. And um, I know that you guys have had some exciting hunts here recently. I've been seeing what's happened on Instagram. I kind of wanted to get the full store and that, and I thought since it happened here during the rut, we might have a good excuse to to dive into the house and the what's and the wives and use those stories you guys have to share as far as your rut success here recently. So that's kind of where I wanted to go with chat today. But but before that, I want to throw kind of a high level theory or observation that I'm getting from a lot of people right now, and I want to see if you guys are seeing the same thing. I've heard from a lot of folks that the last week or so, when we're typically thinking that the ruts gonna be popping, that it's gonna be really great. A lot of people I've been chatting with and getting messages from have been saying that has been one of the slowest rutting peak of typical rutting activity that they can remember, and that instead of it being so great right now, they were seeing the best running activity in late October. Is that something you guys have seen or have you had the lights out rutting and chasing and seeking that you expect over the last seven to ten days or so. I mean, it's I think it's been pretty pretty good overall. Um. I think it's interesting because you always have people saying, oh, yeah, like oh it's on or oh it's lockdown, or you know, day to day changes, and um, honestly, for for you know, for me personally, I feel like it's you know, did you pick the right spot? Are you in you in the right spot at the right time, like you know, yeah, one day, yeah, you might have a buck lockdown on the door, or they might be you know, locked down, but like you know, you go to a different farm the next day, different area and see some completely different. So I think it all depends on obviously the area, the region that you're hunting in, or even even farm the farm. So um. I always I always laugh when people like, oh, yeah it's lockdown, like it's lockdown across the country. Every buck's lockdown the door, like you know, I think it just really depends on on on where you're at and and uh, there you're hunting. Yeah, that's that's very true, Skyler. Have you see anything different? Yeah, I couldn't agree more than what Mike just said there. Like for me personally this year, it's been super slow, like abnormally slow. That's just my personal observation. But I've had people that have been right in them, you know, and it's chaos and it's buck after buck chasing dough and doing loops and round to all kinds of stuff. But but for me, what I saw personally, it was it was real slow. But I know better. I mean it could be one ridge over and and one hillside over and not be in them, and that's where they're at, one property over, one farm over, just like Mike just said, so you know you're in them or you're not. That's kind of what I feel about it. Yeah. Now, now I know you just said Mike that. Of course you can't say it's one phase happening right now where we're at and it's gonna be the same thing everywhere else. But if you had to kind of this is the typical time frame that most people think that we're entering quote unquote lockdown. Do you feel like are you seeing anything like that where you're at yet? Are you are you seeing Bucks locked on? Does is it starting to slow down? Let people typically think of at that time period? Um? Yeah, I mean I think I think so. I'm sure you know, we're near in kind of the peak of the rut and I'm actually out in like northwest Kansas right now, which is an area that, um, not super high density but really open. Until you get a lot, you can really see a lot and you get to see a lot of what's going on. Um, you know between the several groups of people that we have in camp, Um, I mean people are seeing Bucks, Um, several are lockdown with those But like I saw big mature buck tonight um kind of by himself and all by himself and he didn't have a dough and um, he wasn't able to get him get him in bow range. But um, you know we're seeing a little bit of everything. So uh, it's it's so situational and so you know, you know, farm to farm and just just you never know. But um, you know Sean, like Sean's been hunting and uh, past couple of days and he's been hunting this specific area. It's like tight to a betting area and he's having a crazy intense right action, like he's rut on the edge of the betting area. They're they're moving all day. I mean they're not you know, they're not hardly slowing down at all. But if you know, if you're off that betting areaf you're hunting you know, further away by food sources or um just further away from the core you know, core areas, and you're not gonna see an expert that kind of redactivity. So um, but yeah, I mean I think, you know, yeah, it's definitely the time when than when most of the bucks you know that most of those are in heat and they they tend to get with them. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think more of them going to be locked down right now this time you're just like you said Martha started off with, but there's no way all of them are locked down, and so you better still be out there trying if you can. But but certainly that's probably why it is a little slower right now because of that. But we gotta keep trying if you can. Do you guys, do anything different during quote unquote or if again, we can't just say this is lockdown, but mid November when it's kind of peak of breeding, more bucks are gonna be locked than aren't. Um, Do you change at all what you're doing from a hunting perspective any different than what you might have been doing seven days ago or tend to go ten days ago when we're kind of assuming that most of the bucks are cruising around chasing trying to find that first though, Are you sitting anywhere different or thinking through anything different? Skyler? Uh? For me, not any different. I try to focus on the just the rut funnels, you know, where they got to get around a certain terrain to get by your stand or kind of on the edge of a betting area that's real thick or even maybe even right in it and kind of kind of dive in there and get pretty aggressive because I think Bucks potentially could have been locked down, you know with the first dose, even just a couple of weeks ago. So um, not really changing anything this week versus last week. I'm still try trying to focus on those those betting areas and those thick areas where they're going to push them into or be cruising through some funnels to get for me to be So, yeah, Mike, same thing for you, or do you have anything different twists you throw on there? Well? Yeah, I mean I think I think you know, when when the Bucks do get locked down, you know, there's stick contact to these areas and they're not letting the doe leave. And so I think being closer to you know, some of the some of the better betting areas or even like this time of year can be it's really weird with with some areas we hunt that have like higher deer numbers. It's crazy to where you'll see these big Bucks isolate these dose. They'll literally get them away and these really weird spots try to get them far far away from all the other deer because they're tired of fighting off little bucks and try tired of getting harass and and they wanted to keep her you know, to themselves until they'll run them up into these weirdest little areas and so um, you know, it's the time of year when you can kind of key on some some non traditional areas where um you know that maybe off like in Kansas where we're at now, it's it's it's really open train and like a lot of the deer just run the creeks in the in the in the river system and then the draws. But there's little fingers that come off fee of these draws, and like this time of year, it's when those bucks will get that dough and they'll get her far away as possible from the creek and from the river system just to keep her out of the out of the high traffic areas. And so um, if we're seeing some of that, will definitely like move in a hand some sets um you know, closer to that area. So yeah, that's seen. And thing actually just recently, earlier this month, I had a buck that was locked on a dough and he was taking her up until this little tiny finger timmer that led out towards the road kind of and then there were some tall kind of CRP type native grasses, and there's there's never buck activity there typically. Um. But for four days in a row, I think every morning he was in there with a dough and moving in and out of there in the evenings, and so I just kept on Kenana. Every day I was all right, I'm gonna assume he's back in there again, and every day he just about was. Um. So that as if you if you see that kind of activity, it does make a lot of sense to to assume there's gonna be some consistency and try to get tight to it. It. It didn't worry out for me, but almost did. Um. But speaking of speaking of going in tight though to to like betting areas and things like that, Mike, Um, I just know a tiny bit about your hunt that came together for you. I don't know, it's about a week he goo maybe in Missouri, and I know I had to do a little bit with you making a move tight to some cover. So I kind of want to hear the story of this buck that you call bovis right, he's at six and a half year old, ZERI is that right? Yeah? Yeah, I come to find out six and a half year old. It's kind of funny. We um we thought maybe this is all estimation, of course, but uh, you know, we had we had estimated him to be five and a half, um, you know, based on the cheff hand photos in the history we had with him. And then once I got to dig it into like old photos from the first year that we had our our property, I end up finding some photos of him from when he was uh look what we thought was too So we we uh we kind of underestimated his age and actually passed him up last year, the five and a half year old. So but he did get a little bit bigger. But um, yeah, I mean I Sean and I were having a discussion talking about how, you know, with Missouri, with you know, with with the rival season being right in the middle of of the rut, and this year was a little bit earlier. I think it was the twelve. It was last Saturday when I've opened, and um, you know, we always try to be cautious on how we hunt and how we approach things, and um, you know, we don't want to blow deer out, we don't want to run them off, you know, off our property. And having the shot with a gun and so you know, we're always pretty cautious, but I felt like, you know, I'm talking to Sean, I'm like, man, I feel like we are a little bit too cautious, Like we need some a little more aggressive you know sets that that are sets that we're only gonna hunt, you know, once twice, three times a year, maybe this time of year. And uh so, you know, we we kind of started like keying in on on looking at the on the maps and kind of finding where, you know, areas where we thought would be would be good and based on prior like ship hunting one and stuff like that, and um, you know, we've been we we've been seeing this deer for for years. We kind of knew his core area, and uh so I I kind of I basically hung a new set specifically for for this deer or one other deer there's too too. You know, mature deer are kind of in this area. And it's a timber you know timber set, and it's in tight on the betting area and it's it's it's a big draw that the bucks just kind of cruise and they check all these little these little coves in this in this draw, and um, I basically just wanted to get somewhere where we were, you know, in tight close to a betting area, that we had pretty good visibility and that we could actually you know, call to the year. Like where we put the stand. It wasn't a stand that like, yeah, we have deer walk by and bow range, but it's it's we're off the edge a little bit to where we could really observe it and if we see the buck to call to him and and make the move. So that's what we kind of did, and um, and that panned out. It worked worked like a charm, I guess. So so rewind a little bit for me though you you saw this buck for four years or five years wherever was what kind of encounters were you having him in these past years? Were paying attention to them early on or was it kind of a deer that maybe last year or the year before year kind of like oh wow, this is a funky, cool buck. You know, tell me a little bit more about the history that led up to this and if you know any that helped you get the kind of final pieces together now yeah, oh yeah, it's um, it's amazing that that the way that we start logging our trail camp photos and keeping track of all our photos like and Skyler can touch on this too with his buck here and in a little bit. But it's amazing to see the patterns year after year and and and in the areas that they spend time in October versus the area they spend time in in November and um. Yeah, So we have been watching this bucket for years and had several encounters with them, actually this year in particular. Um, we had a couple of encounters with him early season on a clover plot in October. UM, and then a few days before I shot him, Shawn's dad had a close call with him, Um, just off that clover plot. He was coming to the uh this this corn mode corn plot that check you know, check for dose. And so we had a lot of encounters with them, we you know, over the years and kind of put the pieces of the pubble together, and it's it's interesting to see, you know, what cameras he's on year after year and what camera heat cameras he isn't on, and you can really quickly narrowed down his his core area and uh, he was you know, had a fairly small core area. I mean I would say, you know, three hundred acres ish um, and so you know, we we we knew that he was using that area, fruining that area, and during the rut, you know, that's we have a lot of those, a lot of high deer density, and so they don't really have to leave and and chase and run around too much to to find those. So we need he'd be in that in that area pretty tight. How how are you hunting differently before the rut? You you mentioned you're pretty conservatives. Is it mostly field edge, food plot, food source type of things? And then right about in the last you know, ten twelve days or so, you start diving to the cover. Is that typically how you approach things or do you have a different way to go about them? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I would say, yeah, September October, we're hunting, you know, mainly evenings hunting. You know, food plots, field edges. I'm not really getting under the timber much. It's just it's tough, you know, our on our on our particular property. You know a lot of oak trees, a lot of acorns and so um. You know, if they're just scattered, they're they're not really concentrated and it's tough to hunt in the morning without blowing deer out, and so um, we we would like to be conservative, and they get they get pretty regular, you know, in the evenings on the food sources and so um, that's typically what we're doing until you know, mid three week of October UM, and then we'll start hunting some mornings in Noptember um and and getting a little little more aggressive. So so in this situation, you said, Um, you had Shawn's dad had a close call a couple of days beforehand, you decide that you want to sneak in here is tighter. No, did I remember Did they remember this right that you hung a new set like just before the day you hunted it, or was this back in the summer when you hung that set specifically for this year? Then no, no, yeah, we hung Yeah, we hung the set the day before I kill him. Um. So we went in midday and on the set it was it was I knew it was gonna be ah all right, anticipated at being in more of a morning set. Um, but we decided we're gonna hang it and just hunted that evening, leave all our stuff in the tree and come back in the morning. We're gonna have the right wind, you know, both times, and um, you know, wanted to be pretty stealthy in the morning and as you know, for you know, just the filming side of things. I mean, we got a lot of crap in the tree takes every set up and cloud and and so uh it's there's nothing better than literally leaving everything the three like my I left my bow in the tree. Everything. They're like in the morning, climb right up and it's like I was like, oh, I remember what this is. Like. This was like when I first started hunting, Like you just climb up with your bow on your back and you're ready to go. H But yeah, so we hung the stand. We hunted that evening and actually had a pretty slow set, which I kind of expected. H it was a little bit warmer, and um, you know we saw a few deer you know later in the evening and then in the buck chasing a dough. But um, that next morning, uh it cool off quite a bit and um was perfect. Really we got in there. We we did bump. You know, I was afraid of bumping deer because it's a more aggressive stand. Like I said, you gotta eat it. A little bit of walk several hundred yards kind of through Withtember, and it's loud, you know, all oak leaves are all over the ground, and uh so I was like, yeah, I'm sure we're gonna bump deer, like you gotta just expect that and and and be okay with that. And it's hard for me to be okay with that ever, but uh you know, we we we we pushed in. We bumped one or two deer maybe on the way in, and got climbed in and had deer on us, you know, right away. First light had a little fun come by, and then actually it was probably a little bit of a lull, probably thirty forty five minutes, which is what I was hoping. I was hoping the deer weren't gonna be in there very much, you know, until later in the morning, and later in the morning here like commonly start kind of filtering through. And we had a had a pretty steady morning from about you know, probably an hour after our thirty minutes after sunrise until until I shot him, which was actually like I believe so so the situation you just describe there, that loud waking I just had this morning myself, I was heading into a stand and it was it was like fourteen degrees this morning. Everything was frozen and crunchy and there was no wind. As I got I walked across into the timber and it's like that first step in there, I was like, oh God, like this is going to be a disaster. And so I'm always faced with this dilemma in that situation where I'm thinking of my head. Do I just so slowly creep along and try to minimize the sound and make and just take forever to get to my stand and try to be a little more quiet even though it's not that quiet, or do you say, screw it, I'm gonna make noise. I might as well just get to the stand as quickly as possible and get in it so that the length of time and making noise is shorter. Yeah, So I never know what to do. I bounced in between the two. It seems like, what do you do? Do you think that either one of those is better? Get it over? That morning getting Yeah, yeah, the morning that the morning I shot Bob, Joel and I were like creeping. We just creeped in. I was like, yeah, it's kind of loud, but I was like, what kind of sound? Like raccoons or whatever, and like the year like ran off in blue and I was like, come on, and I was like it was up pointing. I was like, you didn't sell us. We could have just been raccoons. Like you're not blowing it us no way, But yeah, I know what you're saying. It was the same thing this morning here in Kansa's like dead calm. It was literally I said the brand and I go, yeah, I go, uh, if there's any deer in the vicinity, like they're gone. So we're just gonna get in the stand and hope that bucks come cruising. Like it's it seems it seems it's so contradictory to what we normally do. But it's is that time of year where it's like you gotta, you gotta, you gotta try stuff and you gotta do it and you gotta get into the right spots. So it's just I don't know, you just you kind of risk it and hope, I hope you don't bump the right deer. Yeah yeah, I feel like I feel you. After today, I might be moving to the just get in there and get over it. Because it was just so painfully slow. And then I still spo deer, and it just felt like it was a waste of time. Um, I might be in your boat, Skyler. I think I like that idea. That's the right call for sure. Um give me anxiety every every step, like I just get I'm so anxious. I'm like, this is so loud. I hate it. And then you hear that bounding away or a dear blow, and just like your soul starts to slowly crumble away. It's the worst feeling in the world. And you're like, well, maybe it was a high pitch. It was a high pitch blow. It must in the door. Or you hear like a really deep blow and you're like, oh great, it was a big buck. That was That was the only buck around here. A good hunt. Whole hunts ruined. What am I doing walking in there? Anyways? Now, yeah, I know that feeling too well, the unknown, the unknown killed you. But you know it's full of the deals you'll never know. So yeah, So this this set you were and you said it was a draw, that there was a lot of dear bedded in. Can you describe though, like how you actually placed the stand within the draw, like where you up high on the ridge or right down near the bottom or and how is the wind and all that I'm kind of curious about, like the real details of that set up. Um. Yeah, so it was it was up top like uh basically where it was an old logging road that ran down the top of this ridge and went all the way down to where the basically of the ridge ran out. And um, the ridge basically shot straight northwest, so we hung it for a northwest wind, north wind, west wind, you know, any any northwest wind, and uh, it kind of the draw ran out, and so we're kind of overlooking the main draw and like it's it's it's a big deep cut into like the deer. It's like you got these little fingers and coves and like the deer, I've seen them to do it, you know, over and over and over, and all the trails you can just see when you shut hunt and uh you see all that. They they they kind of just circle the down one side of all these these draws and they kind of just basically run, you know, run these these little coves, and so, um, I wanted to be up high to where you know we kind of see, you know, be at a pretty good vantage point. Um. But also be entied enough to where you know, we'd be able to to get a shot off or call and have the deer deer come to us. So, um, we were up high, like we were kind of the tree was kind of off the ridge and so the set is probably really really high set because of the ridge is a little bit above us. But um, but it's a really good vantage point and um, and kind of see what's going on all across there. And so then did you end up seeing the buck and calling him in or were you doing blind calling and then he came into that? How did that all work? So, yeah, we have too much deer. I actually like we're above this huge like off to our north or our right side, there's this huge bowl um that drops off below the tree. And so it's a big, big, thick kind of you know the area where it's kind of overgrown. We've done some timber stand improvement and then we've done a lot of prescribed fires in the area, so a lot of under undergrowth and thick and you know, the deer better than quite a bit. And I had seen some deer back that way and I was I was giving Joel trouble. I was like, hey, you know I spot a deer a couple of times back. I'm like, hey, that's your side of the tree. You gotta keep an eye over there, man. And uh, I look back and there's like this one. I just one like lane where I could see for like a hunt a couple of hundred, like a hundred and twenty yards hunt, thirty yards probably, And I see a glimpse of a deer go through there. I threw my bonos up on him, and I see it's a good buck. I have no idea what buck it is, or it's the you know, I'm sure buck whatever. I just saw the solid buck and he just vanishes, and I'm like, look, look, look, look, and don't ever get another shot at him. Like well, I'm gonna call could be straight up wind of us. I was like, I'm gonna come, gonna do some grunning and and see. So I grunt ground a few times, and I'm scanning, scanning, scanning, looking over the area, looking over the area, and nothing. I was like, dag it, man, I was like, I know that deer, like I know it was a good deer. I don't know what which one it was. And so I'm gonna do a little some quick rattle. So I've other antlers and like not real hard or aggressive, but like because you know, he the deal wasn't very far. So I just you know, rattled lightly and um, you know, not too long by thirty seconds and then set the antler down, and glass and glass and local looks and is expecting him to come and nothing, and so I look, dang man. I was like, I don't know, I don't know what to do. That was whatever, and just sitting there and it's probably I would say like probably two minutes went by, maybe and uh, maybe three minutes, and all of a sudden, I looked down below us in this bowl, and it's kind of funny because we're so high. We're like up and this bowl drops way down, so it's like we're probably like fifty six above this deer. And I looked down and there he is. He's like forty five yards but just way down low, and he's coming. He's just coming, and he's just like not like not like when you rattle in a bucket's mad and hot and like coming in like charging, but he's just like zig zagging through all this brush and coming. And I put my bottles on him. I instantly recognized you know who it was. He just as heavy and as the flyer off as you do. And and uh he's kind of exact him through this brush, like not on a trail at all. If I come and right to our treat. And so I knew he had he was coming to the call. And uh, so I turned around, got my boat, you know, and everything I'm and I'm he's coming on the back side of the tree. And so I'm like, man, we hung this set. It was it was a hanging hunt kind of deal. You know. We didn't want to trim too much. It wanna be too loud, and so we didn't trim a ton on the backside down when of course, and uh, here he comes up the hill and and I see this a little a little clearing like forty yards that range and draw back, and he steps into it. And and when he steps into I see there's there's some branches and there no way on my shooting. So but he's still coming up the up the valley and he's getting closer to where our wind is blown. Someone getting got nervous. I had to spin all the way around the tree, and so I let down spin all the way around the tree and he's coming closer. He gets real close to the tree, and uh, I draw back again. There's like some branches and treating the way, of course, and so I had to get down to kneel down. And so he's like twenty yards and I'm like, I'm like, not kneeling down, but squatting down twenty yards, you know, on these branches. And I asked Joel. I'm like, Joel, are you on him? And He's like, no, I'm not on him. There's the tree in the way, and so I was like, oh gosh. And so like I was like, all right, I look kind of look ahead of the trail where he's walking and he's gonna clear that he's going to clear the brush and about ten more yards or whatever. And he gets about halfway there and he smells the trail where we walked in, and he's like put his nose on some branches, starts like smelling around how they do. And I was like, oh no. And then he all of a sudden just looks our way and looks right up at us in the tree, and I'm a full yer all and I'm like, oh man, I was like this is over. Like he was dead dead the right at at like twenty yards and I was like it's done, and you're you know, you're full draw and you're kind of squatting done too and stuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm squatting at full draw and just like yeah, just like this is this is done and so over, and you know, you just know when it was a big deer, it was an old mature deer, like they just don't they just they just have the six sense about him and whatever reason. He just like looks at us for like twenty seconds and just turns and keeps on walking. I was like, no way, and like he takes about five or six more steps, and at this point we crossed our trail. We walked in and he's like I gotta be like three or four steps from being down win and he finally cleared the branches. I stopped him and joeld on him and I released, and like he stops, I settle in and like he starts to walk in, which I don't see because I'm like honed into the peep and everything, and he takes a step as I as as I'm releasing, which so I hit him a little further back. But it's still this perfect shot high, you know, high double long, and uh, he took off and I knew instantly the blood just started, you know, shooting out. And I knew instantly we we'd got him. But it was just I was a wreck, man. It was just it was it cooled awful bunch that morning. I was underdressed because it was like super Wendy. So I was just like I lost that. I was shaking so bad, and and just the adrenaline rush and all that you kind of hitting me, hitting me at once, but and if getting drawn back like its stakes to face stare down like it was just a u. I was like literally fall out the tree, shaking up heads. It was pretty pretty cool. Oh man, it sounds like that would take a year off my life. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I got gray hair, gray hair my beard now. Man. Yeah. That's uh, just about everything that could possibly happen in like a close encounter like that that makes it stressful, all happen in one for you. That's that's insane. Um. Yeah, I mean, you know, you you get you only get so many chances, you know, And like I was talking to to Joel, literally I think like right before this thought was like, you know, like the the difference between having like and a great year, like your best year ever and a bad year is literally capitalizing on the opportunities. You know, you only get we hunt you know, we get to hunt a ton. You know, we're really fortunately get out, you know, more than more than most people. But like at the end of the day, you only get a handful of opportunities. And so you know, if you miss you know, two of those four opportunities, that's the difference between you know, a great year and in a slower year. And so, um, I just I just saw that opportunity like slipping between my fingertips. Whenever he like stared us down, I was like, no, it's over, you know. And uh, but luckily it worked out the right place right time, Like I said, it's nice when it does all come together. Um, back to your calling and you're rattling there. Um, you said you kind of rattled for thirty seconds maybe a short rattling sequence. Is that your typical rattling or what does your like usual rattling or calling kind of deal usually work or look at during the run? Um, yeah, I mean that that particular time I rattled pretty short and concisually that he was close. I didn't want to be caught moving. That's fine, that's fine. Number one worst fear is like being caught like rattling. Um, but like you don't normally I'll rattle for a little while longer, um, and I like to I usually like to rattle and then stop for a little bit and listen, you know, for a few seconds, and then rattles some more. Kind of deal because like if you know you have a deer coming in and charging in on you, Um, you don't want to be caught moving. So UM. I love I love calling. I love rattle. I love being a in in a you know, a position to where you can see dear and observe their behavior and call to him. Like that's the best obviously. Um, when you can you can kind of judge their their body language and the base you're calling off that. But um, but yeah, I mean it's it's been you know, rattling. It's it's really hit or miss. You know, it's not like turkeys and decoys and you know, just catching them in the right move at the right time, and um, you know it's kind of hit or miss. But but I mean it's it's it's a fun way to do it, and it's it's the best time of year for it. Yeah, So what about with the grunning and calling? Do you do you usually start with like a light grunt and then get more aggressive or do you like to be aggressive all the time, or what kind of calls do you typically throw at him? I usually don't like blind grunt really, Like I feel like, you know, like a deer has to be pretty close to hear you grunting, and unless he was just like standing still and happened to hear. But so I usually don't you know, brought blunt or all right, grunt blindly. Um. But but yeah, like I said, it's it's like tonight, I was like the buck that we saw. I had a decoy out tonight and so I saw you got guys got eyes on the buck and saw him, and uh, I was trying to, you know, see what he was doing. I was kind of observing his behavior see if he seen the decoy yet, and he hadn't, and so I was trying to get an attention until like I'm grunting, grunting, and he's like a hundred fifty yards wouldn't that Wendy like pretty calm and uh, I'm gonna have my my vine. I was up with my right hand and the grunt tabe of my left hand like because I I have to like just see him when I when I do ground and see he hears me. I grounded, grunted, grounded, grounded, and he like didn't hear anything. I like, okay, I'm gonna have to wait till he like stops speeding and wrestling around so he doesn't grind and he finally heard me. So I stopped see if he saw the decoy. And so I think the key to a lot of the key to calling a lot of times it's like it's watching the behavior of the deer and seeing how they react. Um, because you don't want to overcall, you know what I mean. It depends obviously what you know areas you're hunting in f the dear pressured him and called to a lot and um and all that, but you have observing the behavior and being able to adapt, I think is the is the key for for calling in the dear. Yeah, I agree with that. I feel like for me so many times it's if if you want to see them show sign that they heard it right. You want to know at least they heard the grunt, and then that's like step one. If they know that there's something going on, and then maybe I'll give him like one more chance. And if they don't, if they show a negative reaction and it's not if it's not the reaction I'm looking for, at that point, I usually just cann't. But I do find sometimes where you get you get their attention, maybe with a basic grunt and they're looking and they're kind of interested, maybe take a step or two towards you, but then stop and then turn back and maybe make a scrape or just keep standing and look in the other direction. Though that's when I might throw like a more aggressive snort weez or something. If it's a mature buck, then I think might respond to that. Um. But but yeah, the body language reading that, I mean, that's that's the whole game right there. I think more than more important than the noises you're making is just knowing when to make them and whatnot to. I think, yeah, yeah, and all it all depends. Like I said, it's literally the mood like the buck tonight. You know, I called to him, he heard it, he looked. I felt like he should have been able to see the decoy, but he must not have been able to and he just didn't care. I watched him flick his tail looked either way, kind of start feed off, and like in my head, I was like, man like, all right, I'm just I'm done. I'm gonna let him walk. Uh, this is the this is my first day today, uh where I'm at in Kansas. So like, you know, I don't want to get a grass and I don't want to educate him. I don't want to you know, push it. So I just let him walk and I said, well, you know, we'll make an adjustment moving on him tomorrow when the wind switches and and try something different. So um, you know, all depend on the situation. But I'm trying to think if I've ever had a time where I got real desperate and like like called a bunch like more than you probably should have and at work, And I don't think I've had that ever happened. So yeah, I definitely I've definitely had sometimes where I call it too much because I was desperate and had it not worked though, Oh yeah, yeah, that yeah, that's exactly that'sought A few circumstances or that has happened. But it's easy to do that though too, Like you so badly want that buck to come in, like you can see him, he's right there, Like the opportunity feels like it's so close, and you're like, well, maybe just one more we'll do it and he'll be right here and I'll know when dreams will come true. But it usually doesn't go that way. Yeah, yeah, you never know. Never, you never know you miss it, you miss it. How the percent of the shots that you don't take mark that that's true? That is true? You so with with that kind of sage wisdom, Like when you're when you're looking back at this hunt for both of vice, is there anything that stood out to you? I don't know if you've had any time to reflect on it yet to think through the hunt in all the years even hunting him, But is there anything that stands out like as the moment or as like you know, this thing I did or this decision I made was really like the crux of it that really was the key to it all coming together. Is there anything that stands out is like your big aha moment or or something you could point to you like that. Yeah, I mean it was. It was literally just quit being so cautious and and and it's make a move and do it. And um, it's hard. It's hard because, like like I said, we just I just I hate the thought of bumping deer, spooking the deer. I hate the thought of you know, messing stuff up. When we can sit back, you know, hunt smart, play the wind, do everything right and be successful. Um, but during the rut, like it's just it's it's it's there's so much it's out of your control. Like the deer are on a pattern. They're not regularly that you know, they may be in a certain area, but like they literally if they don't have a dough they're just cruising, just looking and so like you know, it's it's it's weird because everything it's not with it's not within your control like it is early mate season. It's literally there you have to be lucky. Like early late season, you can just be good and understand how deer move and understand what they're doing, and you can kill deer in the rut, it doesn't matter. You have to be lucky. You have to be in the right spot at the right time. And so it's easy for people to get frustrated. And you and I talked about that not too long ago, and then just all of us, you know, we were Scott and I were talking about the other day like it's it's it's a grind. It's it's the rut grind. Like we're not sleeping much, we're you know, living in a tree, spending time out there. And it's great. You know, it's exciting, it's a fun time of year, but it can you can get so frustrating because it's just like, man, like you just you know, you're doing everything you can and you just have to get lucky. So I don't like, I don't like relying on luck. Yeah, but you're happy, yeah, and just putting yourself in a position to get lucky, right, just putting in the time and being in those places where it might just happen to work out. And that is the name of the game at this time of year. So yeah, man, Skyler, you uh, I don't know if it's luck or not, but whatever you had going for you, something certainly went right for you recently too. Um. Holy shit, that was that is a buck. That was Skylar's. That was Skylar's first in the true Buck siding of November. Right, I'm pretty sure this season, the whole season, maybe it's it's been pretty bad man. So so what was your what what was the plan and thought process then? As the rut was kicking off for you? If if you've been struggling that much not seeing mature deer, what were things like leading up to this hunt? Well, yeah, we'd hunted so hard since basically just right there prior to Halloween. A few days we had some nice cooler weather and just still never saw any mature bucks on their feet. Love trying to get one early like that, whenever you get to weather, fronts come in and I just didn't see it happen. And then November one rolls around and Clayton and I were playing on hitting it pretty hard between Kansas and Missouri. We tried Kansas first for a few days and it just wasn't happening. We were seeing deer, but never the right one. UM. A couple of three year olds um that we were wanting to pass. Never even had a chance to pass them. They weren't bow range but off in the distance, and even tried some calling and just like you guys touched on they they kind of and interested, and I wasn't going to throw the kitchen sink at them anyway because I didn't want to shoot him. But um, we ended up having like a three day window where we want to switch things up headed northern Missouri and drive a few hours and get up there. And we had north winds, which is which are the best winds for the two spots that we have up there, And really was just planning on sitting in this one funnel in particular, have this place for about teen years now and have to stand there about seven years now, I think, um, and just know that it's it's just a good rut funnel. There's a north and south ditch. It's super deep, and the deer do not want to cross it like it would it's terrible. They want to go around it. And we're sitting at the top of a ridge, um, and then looking across another. Then down at the bottom is where they kind of crossed and get around it. So it's forty yards down to the bottom and bow range whether or not they just decided to go north and south, but if they crossed it and kind of go east and west movement, then they're coming by the stand pretty close and so UM, we ended up just kind of going off of you know where it's the rut. Let's just put our time into this funnel and see what happens. The first morning, we saw one dough in the stand, the same stand I end up killing out of just two days later saw one dough. That evening we tried another farm and saw nothing. So we're sitting there and saw one deer. Uh you know, first week in November, and just like that's I mean, come on seriously. And so the next day, UM, we sat in the stand I ended up killing in. UM. The morning and the evening we saw some decent rut activities from small box chasing. Does We actually kind of got into some It was felt kind of good and uh. And then that evening we only saw I think one small buck in the dough and so it was kind of slow that evening and we debating about going home because we're kind of have like a Northeast twin and we had a couple of spots down in Kansas. We were just going to drive a couple of hours and possibly hunt in Kansas. UM, just one more day before I had to go to family deer camp in Missouri, and I was like, man, we're already up here in we're in the tree. It's getting dark because we're gonna leave our stuff in the tree and hunt the next morning. We're trying to make a call, and uh, we're already up here. Let's try one more time tomorrow morning. And you know, we gave it our best shot. So we ended up leaving our stuff in the tree. And then later that night I was going through trail camera photos and I had done this prior UM and I knew based on last year, that every couple of days in November there was a sheer buck in the daylight um sometimes more often than that even and so I was like, man, if we can just get in there, and so this would be our third straight morning in that set, and I would think within that time frame we would see a shooter, maybe not get a shot, but at least see one across the ridge and call or something. And uh, so we go back in the next morning. But I skipped this part. I should mention it. That night I was looking at it UM and I saw pictures of this year that the number one buck up there that I had in he was there the morning of November eight, and that would be one year to the day the next morning, and I checked these guys on the HB group text and said, like, I gotta I gotta breakfast reservation with have a long tomorrow morning. And so just kind of joking, of course, what they odds. He does it again. And so we get into that same stand and we had some decent movement and saw a couple of small cruisers go bias with the bow range right off the bat. So I'm like feeling good. And then two different groups of those filtered through maybe within thirty forty minutes of each other, and then it got pretty quiet and went from the deer I'm guessing maybe at least an hour, maybe in an hour and a half. I was getting late in the morning. We were talking about going home and how depressed we were going to be because it's November eight. We found an eight days straight and haven't seen the shooter buck, and I said, we gotta go by ten. It's ninety five, and I look up and I catch a flash across the ridge like eye level, like kind of a miracle even saw it really just caught my eye and put the buyos up on him. And to see this rack, you know, pick his rack up, and I knew it was him right away, and just from that point on I and I knew right where he was. He was coming down this trail that was going to come down to the bottom or sides head earlier. So I immediately reached from my bow and a minute or two ended up passing. After I got my bow, I couldn't find him again, and I started thinking maybe he left and turned around and went the other way or something. But then I finally caught a glimpse of him. As soon as he gets down to the bottom, he'd say he's probably fifty or sixty. He's not quite down to the bottom. I I get the full draw because I know this is a really big buck, and I'm going to get the first chance to add him, like the first shot opportunity. I'm gonna shoot. I'm I'm comfortable shooting, you know, forty plus if I have to. And so I'm at full drags, and and he's coming down to the bottom. He stops before he's down there, maybe fifty, kind of looks around, licks, licks his nose, trying to decide which way he goes, comes five yards closer, does it all again, but this time like if he goes right, I'm kind of in jail, and I'm looking ahead. Some does have gone that way, Like if he decides to go that way, I'm gonna thread the needle. Um. And then about that time he decided to just pick his head up and he gets down to the bottom. This time he's the wide wide open, and he just flipped a switch and starts at a full jog and starts coming up the trail that's gonna come ten yards by the stand towards the top of the ridge where we're at, And I ended up stopping at thirteen yards. And uh, at this point it was exactly ninety seconds at full draw, which I think was a blessing in the end, because I wasn't focused on his rack at all, just a hundred percent of the shot um and looking back and seeing the video now, it's he's he almost looks fake. It's it's crazy. Yeah. If I hadn't drawn so early, I think I maybe would have lost it, and uh, it might not have ended out so well. But at thirteen yards I got him real good and and ended up seeing him go down in sight, and it was just pretty much madness. After that, I knew it was the biggest buck I've ever shot, and so we were celebrating, and I called my papa all right after that, maybe maybe not even a minute two after I shot him. I just he shot a deer years ago when I was a kid in the one sevenies, and I always dreamed of shoot one like that ever since. And uh I dialed the line and got him on there and shared that moment with him. And I'm looking back at Clayton and I've been known to cry one time when I called my dad after I shot a buck, and he is literally bawling in the stand behind the camera, and uh, I wish I had a camera on him. I'll never forget it. It it's making me get, you know, super emotional. And so it was a cool moment to share with with my papa Al and then Clayton, you know, getting so worked up over it, and then eventually walking up to him, Uh, I could hardly believe my eyes. He's he is a whopper of an eight poinyer. So yeah, that's crazy. Like it's like we like Scott has had pictures of him, had you know, had pictures of them last year and this year, like we all knew, you know, you can see in the pictures like it's a big deer, but you never it was weird. He's a weird deer. Like it's like he looks almost cartoon and it's it's like, you know, he looked like he had a you know, really nice rack and a tiny body, but in reality he had a big body and a giant rack. Like it's just really proportionate, and like the mass, the time, length, the beams, it's really all proportionate. And so it's like one of those deals where it's just like you you just you can't really appreciate it until you see it kind of in person. Instance. M Lou Yeah, I mean you see like a ten point or eleven or twelve point Boon and Crockett ba can those things have huge frames on them, but then you put those kind of inches on an eight point frame and I just I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. I mean, just does the frame of this steers dwarf anything else you guys have seen before? Uh? Yeah, yeah. I had a buddy over last night who saw it for the first time, and then we had a fish for I actually with our taxidermists Bruce and and he saw it too, and just he had school plated it for me and we had it there at his house and just eyeball on it and just the people that see it for the first time can hardly believe their eyes that it really is. Like I had to use that line before to Mike, just like a cartoon character, like you drew them up and it's like this fake out of this world deer like it's really bizarre. It still hardly feels real, Like he's just a monster frame with this time length and mass that carries alway to the end of his times. It's and you don't get any credit for that in the score, which uh, I've never really cared too much about. But um man, he's he's special. He's one of the kind of once in a lifetime for sure. Yeah, what was what was the score? I missed that. What the growth score was? Um I got a gross score around one three, and then my buddy last got one a D two, so we were within one inch of each other, a little less than an inch when you consider the eighth I haven't had anyone like of officially score, and I've been in the talks with the guy about that he's going to do that soon, just just a rough score because there's a sixty day drying period. But I think I'm pretty close, especially since my buddy, who's pretty good about it. Uh, we got within an inch of each other, so he he definitely grosses over. I can say that confidently. And then the net scores decently less. He's got a couple of kickers that are really cool kickers actually below his brawd times UM that add up to be five inches, which really hurts his net score UM, which is flirting with around one seventy one seventies. And uh but a book, you know, and and that and net booner eight pointers almost unheard of, so um to me, to me, so I can't hardly believe that the same like yeah, yeah, no, Its like I think we're all on the same page, like like we don't nobody really cares that much about the score of a the year, so to speak. But it just kind of helps put things into perspective, and like it's unreal, like I mean that that's a giant, Like I mean, I don't even know if you looked up like like we we were looking at like eight point record, like the the biggest eight points in the world. And then I think they're all gun kills. I don't even know what the biggest bok kill eight pointer is, so it could be the biggest. It could be the biggest Bok point in the in the books. Man. I just I just imagined my my vision of what the tree stay it looked like after that shot was just you and Clinton screaming at the top of your lungs back and forth to together do when you're here we go thing, here we go, just doing that over and over. That's funny. Hey, you know, it's America. It's a miracle that Scott I was in the stand past nine, say that is that right? Yeah? Yeah? I usually get back in front of computer and get work done from home, so yeah, you know, yeah, I was struggle. It was it was our last last sit of the trip. Like we were literally just soon there, like this trip home is gonna be the worst, Like eight days and no shooters on this trip in Kansas or Missouri and like not even all see either, like it. And we put in the time in October and I kind an out of state trip in North Dakota, like come on, what's going on? And then just like that, I mean and we talked about it too in our group text like you can't you can't get too down and discourage because it could change in the matter seconds. And you know the right though to come by Either you're in in him or you're not. It's chaos or it's not. We just we're hanging our hats on that and just be in the right funnel and putting our time in and hoping it would pay off. And he he came by all by himself, just just cruising. I never called, I never never did anything, just you know, just got lucky and stay a little later than normal. Like Mike said, I'm glad that worked out. Um. I thought it was really interesting though that he was there exactly one year to the day beforehand. Um, exactly that annual that annual pattern. It's something that so many people I talked to now point to is something that they're seeing more and more and keying in on that and knowing, like if I got a picture of this buck in this area on November eighth last year, I'm specifically going to be in that area again the seventh, eighth, ninth, somewhere around there, if the conditions are right. Is that something you guys have seen in other instances, I've I've heard the same thing. Um actually watching the Jury show, they've touched on that and stuff. And I started kind of painting a little more attention to it afterwards, and even just this year, like I was like, man, we got that north win for three days. Let's go up there and setting those two funnels, like and I remember going through the folder. Mike was up there. He was with me in January. We pulled the card last year because I didn't even hunt the farm last year, like I put him up in July. We pulled. We shot a dough in January. Mike and I out there and we're looking at the pictures on the drive home, like, um, there was just incredible movement in that area in November, and let's just try it. And sure enough one year to the day this in particular that you know, I would have shot other deer, of course, but he did it again. I'm glad he did. Mike. Have you seen any of those annual patterns? Yeah, absolutely, it's crazy, like, uh, probably not as much, like I don't know, like in November and stuff, like it's funny, like we have deer that that every year, like will show up on our property like around October or like like like Deptember, like they said their raiment kind of deal. They move and almost to the day. Like we had a deer pretty like a really cool deer. Were called flat Top because the first time I ever got pictures of him, it was like the middle of October. He showed up, was I think he was like a three year old maybe, and showed up and had nothing of the main beams, like his G two and three were broke off on both sides of an eight wire. The next year showed up and think he was the main frame ten and had like half of his times broke off on the left side and all of them on his right side. Like he must have like a calcium deficiency or something. But we called him flat Top because he was just always busted up and and uh we had him every year and it was within three or four days that he would show up on our property and uh for for three three to four different years. So um, it's funny how they just like they just know when the time of year that the you know, the the amount of daylight changes and stuff gets shifting around. They just they know and they move around and go to the different areas, and then you have bucks that are you know, they're all different personalities. You've got the bucks that are like homebodies that are living a tiny core area and they don't really leave there all year long, and so it's it's really interesting to see, um, you know, how different deer move and and and then shift around differently during that throughout the year. I'm glad. I'm glad you said that Mike like this buck in particular. I had pictures of him last year for the first time in late October, and when you know October, I think October it was like the first time you shoot up this year. Maybe maybe they anywhere, you know, late October, within a few days of each other. And we've talked about that too, Like we know, I've had numerous Bucks, and I know numerous people who have had the same scenario where the deer shows up within the same week time time frame, like basically every year. And so he was already kind of reading the script from last year, which led me to believe if we could get a few days in the stand, we might see him, you know. So I think there's a lot to that for sure. Yeah, So would you point to, well, would you point to this whole idea, that this being taking advantage of annual patterns or something else if you had to, kind of to the point that I asked, I asked Mike about his hunt, if you could point to any element of this hunt or this season, or some decision you made or something that was was the most important thing that led to this all coming together for you? What would you point to? I'd say two things. Number One that looking back into seeing the movement through a particular area based on your cameras and even observations when you hint them there. Um, I was definitely leaning on that when we made the trip before even you know, that was one of the deciding factors, Like we've got north winds for three days, let's go up there and put in the time. And even though we didn't see but one year the first day, and then pretty decent of the second day and then the third day, it all came together. Um. And then the fact that just in general the first eight days and then even before that in October with some cold fronts, like we just had not seen a shooter and let alone in bow range, like just nothing, and so um, just trying your best not to get discouraged and just to put in the time when you can, because it's it could all change in the matter of seconds. We talked about it in our group text. I know I already said this, but like, it can all change so quickly. It's just a matter of having the right jo in your area. And the next thing you know, you've got a a parade of bucks. You know, you've got ten bucks coming through there in an hour or two time frame, like because they caught her scent. And it's just chaos all of a sudden right in front of you. So either you're in them or not. And we were not in them for a week straight and then bam, you know, a buck of a lifetime shows up. So yeah, yeah, I agree with that, and I'm always trying to remind myself of that too. It's it's more than anything else this time of year. I feel it's almost just the mental side of things. You know, Can you just just mentally tough a out? Yeah, it's it's it's you definitely play play mental games. I mean you just I mean you sit You're sitting in a stand I doll like for hours and hours and hours on end, and you get exhausted, you're your mentally physically lost, you're tired. Um. You know, contrary to what everybody thinks, none of us hunt for a living necessarily. You know, we all still have obligations outside of hunting. So um, you know, it's it's just the stress of everything kind of coming down in So it's easy to get down and and and discourage and worn out and um. But literally you look over your shoulders one minute and the next minute you look over and here comes a big buck. So you just never know. Yeah, I'm hoping for some of that because I've had a tough run and coming market coming buddy. Tomorrow, Tomorrow I'll be my fifteenth day in a row without getting my running buck yet, So hoping it's gonna happen. You're even, You're even in the playing field, right, Yes, that's true. Tomorrow I will be extending my range by a significant market. So yeah, that's a big difference to there. That will help you. Yeah. Usually I usually I stick to the sticking stream, but today or this year, I'm screw it. I need something's gotta hit the Yeah, so smart will be interesting. Um, I got one final question. I was just gonna say, I guarantee if you shoot one tomorrow with you gun, you'll be just as pumped as you would be if you shot out with the bow. Yeah, I'll be after all the time you put it, I will be a happy camper, that's for sure. Um. So I got one final question for you guys. You're one best piece of advice for hunting the second half of November, because I feel like a lot of people when they think about the rut, they're thinking just the first couple of weeks, but there is a whole lot going on in the second half. Um, some people they'll start to fizzle out. They get tired out, worn out, or holidays and different things like that. Um, what would what would your words of encouragement or advice be? Uh? I guess, Mike, if you want to kick it off first for these next couple of weeks, Uh, my piece of advice would be to go to Texas because that's what I'm doing. I'm getting I really, I really am. But uh no, Yeah, it's tough because like, yeah, especially as states like Missouri, Nebraska states to have their gun season in the middle of November, and man, it makes it tough. Like you know, the ruts should be really really strong on the on the tail end when you know, when there's less does and heat and there's more competition again and uh, in Missouri it's just so subdued because the deer are just so pressured, you know, from the gun season and so um, it can be difficult. But I've definitely had some good hunts, uh, you know past you know, the middle of November, the third week in November and so um. But like you said, I think a lot of it touches on people being worn out and you know mentally, and it's hard to get get into it. And um, but back to the whole the whole rough thing is like you just gotta put in your time and and eventually it's gonna work out. So um, I just you know, you just got to be in the right place at the right time because it's the right buck cruising for a dough or the right buck on a hot dough, and that that happens and the compass should be getting you know, picking back up after the after the peak. What would you say, Scotling, I'd say a couple of things. Um, definitely don't overlook that. The end of November. I like it just as as much, or maybe even better. I think they start to get desperate at that time. There's only a few doughs maybe left, and they're walking in the daylight more and more trying to find them. And uh, you know, I'm fortunate to be able to hunt Kansas and the gun season hasn't started yet, so there's not quite that pressure that Mike just touched on in Missouri, and so we get a lot of activity in our show cameras and have had some good luck in late November. So don't get too discouraged and maybe even save some days right now when it's brutally cold cold out like it is right now. We're hunting in the single temp digits in the fields like with the windshield, and it's just it's just brutal out there. Like I've questioned our sanity. Um, you know, just just maybe we shouldn't hunt now and try a little harder a couple of days next week that we weren't planning on trying that sort of thing. So definitely don't overlook the end of the month. I it's it could be really good. And then I actually like hunting a little more back on the food plots almost like it's early season or late season, like the does tend to go there. They're trying to refuel from everything that's gone out with the rut, and uh, they're gonna come in there and check the dose out they're eating or even fill up themselves from everything that's that's been going on. So we've had some good luck over back over cover plots or the turnip plants and stuff. So um, that's what I would say, Well, you guys have You've revitalized me by hearing about out two guys who did get it done. I feel like I now have like some good vibes back on my side, So I appreciate it much. It was much needed. I've been pretty warned out. So yeah, discut between the two of us, I think we found it. Basically every day, I'm November and we've had two opportunities, three opportunities, three opportunities totals, So they just you know, they don't. It doesn't happen every day. I just gotta right, I wait for the right Now. I'm with my dad in Kansas right now filming him, and it's been a rough couple of days. I mean pretty pretty slow actually, just kind of right back to it. I I's gonna attack that. But the guys is like, well, back back to the rock grind, you know, same, all same, I'll not have any luck. And Sean's like, dude, be quiet, you shot a world class buck and I'm like, I know, but so like, uh, I know this feeling all too much. So anyway, yeah, well, I, UM, I want to make sure that folks listening know where they can go to see some of you guys stuff. Um, what would you guys point to as far as where folks can watch some of your your episodes, whether it be online or on TV. We're uh, we're everywhere man. Uh Facebook, Hartland bow Hunter, Instagram, Hartland bow Hunter. Uh, that's where you know. We post a lot of this as it happens kind of stuff. And um, right now we're filming for kind of Hard to Believe It film for our twelve the twelfth season of our show. So the new season will be coming out um July of next year, and uh so that will be one of all of our stuff that we're filming now. We will air on Outdoor channel and um, we're releasing right now content on Behind the Draw on our YouTube channel, which is our mini series just uh, just basically short abbreviated versions of uh of the TV episodes or different content though deer hunting stuff and big game stuff. So we're releasing those weekly on our YouTube channel. So um or we're trying to get it as much much content out there as possible everywhere we can. And um, definitely though I think you know, if you want to follow, you know, in the field type stuff, um, you know, follow our on our Instagram pages and uh, we're always trying to update that and keep keep as much information out there as possible. So yeah, what about your Do you share your personal instagrams to the world or is that trick? I feel like you love stories? Yeah, so I mean yeah, actually, um, we do more stories on our personal pages than we do on the on the HP page, um, on Instagram, So mind that. Michael Hunsucker, I think, and uh, Scott is HB Skillet nicknames Scott got Scotta got involved in the Instagram game like a couple of years later than everybody else, and so he's like, I gotta come up with a really good name. And I don't even know how skill it came about, uh, but oh I know, but know how Okay, well, let's let's hear it. Oh Joel, remember Joel and the group text He had a little something, a little a little extra drink or two and he couldn't type Skyler. He typed skillet. And that's funny because like my Yeah, so my nickname in our in our group texes Moke instead of Mike because yeah, he he fat fingered Mike and then said moke one time and then it's stuck. I guess, so that should I'm gonna change my my Instagram handle that h B Moke. There you go, get with the get with the times. It's all about the HP then your nickname. Yeah, yeah, but anyway, Yeah, we're all you know, all of our guys you know, are on the on Instagram, and yeah, we do a lot more stories on our on our personal Instagram stuff, and um, it's cool. It's fun to you know, kind of do the behind the scenes type stuff. So yeah, I always enjoy getting to see that stuff. So you guys have been putting out some of the very best content in the hunting world for a long time now, Like you said, it's kind of crazy. It's been twelve years, um, and you continue to do it. So I can't I cannot recommend to anyone listening. I can't recommend enough checking out what what Mike and Skyler and Sean the whole crew are doing over HB. You guys are top notch. So thank you for spending some time with you to night. Yeah man, good good to get caught up in the best of luck to you, uh close out the season, buddy. Thanks man, I'm gonna do my best. Good luck to you guys too. Thank you so much, thanks for having so much And that is a rap, but real quick before I shut this thing down, and want to let everybody know that for the first time in like six months, we have Wired to Hunt merchandise back and available for sale. We've got the wired to Hunt uh flex fit hats. We've got Wired Hunt trucker cats with the Wired Dunt logo on the front, kind of a camo front of that hat. We have two different Wired Hunt t shirts available and you can get these if you go to the Meat Eater dot Com go to the shop page, and then within that you're see Wired Hunt gear is going to be there in the apparel section. There's also a Wired Hunt collection. You can see it all in that spot too. So make sure check out hats and shirts are available. I had a lot of people asking questions about where those went. UM took a little bit of time to get things back up and running since we made the transition over to the meat Eater, but it is there now, so heading over to the meat eater dot com shop. I really appreciate your support. Thanks for wearing that swag, and otherwise, best of luck in the woods. I hope you guys have been having a great rut so far, but there's still good stuff to come in the future, so be out there in the tree having a good time, shoot straight, and stay wired to hunt. Atta