00:00:04 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome from another episode of The Hunting Collective. I'm Ben O'Brien and today I'm joined by a very special, really a very badass individual. His name is Brad and Brad was a part of um a bear attack on a falk Neck island. He is been willing to give us here at the unt Collective the exclusive story of this attack. It wasn't only just an attack, it was a maeling. He sustained some very minor but also some very serious injuries along the way of this attack. He was hunting elk with somebody's there and UM, just an amazing story unfolded. You'all be you'll you'll know a fog Neck Island from Dmitri podcast from From the Meat Eater with Steve Rinella, Remy Warren, Be Honest, Pitelis and others. A fog Neck Island has become a place where bare attacks in the news are are fairly frequent. I mean, if you don't know about a falk Kneck Island, it's It's in the Kodiak Island Archipelago on Coastal and Coastal Alaska. It's about twenty miles long and forty miles wide. There's just about thirty nine people that lived there. Who knows if that's even if that's even the right number. It's not a lot. Um. There's no roads, there's no stores. There's just herds of Roosevelt elk and hundreds of Kodiak brown bears, which are uh it's one of the largest bears in the world. They could be up to thirteen hundred pounds their giant um you know, on the elk, the out there Roosevelt elk, and they were they were transplanted from the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State and in the late nineteen twenties and a lot of guys love to go hunt them, as did Brad and his four friends, but one ensued. It was one of the craziest stories you'll ever hear. And it's exclusive to this podcast, so please listen, enjoy, and learn from Brad and his bear attack on the Brad. What's up? Man? As much? Man, Thanks for having me here, Thanks for having me Sunny, Sunny, Sunny, San Diego. You got it. Um, there's lots to talk about, obviously, but um, first things first, when you know, we get into situation where I need it, this is this is the story. People are coming for the story, right, They're coming for the bear attacks story, of course. But we're gonna make him wait a minute. We're gonna make him dispense, give him a little bit suspense. Um, you know, I want to talk about Kodiak and a fog neck islands. Um in the environment there first, because you spent some time around bears prior to been there for two and a half years now, So tell me about, um, your time in Kodiak and you know your experience of bears or what kind of place it is, sure sure well first and foremost like the bear populations insane there. So it's it's the common occurrence of seeing bears. There's nothing short from what I'm used to. You know, my drive to work, I see a bear like pretty much every day. So let's back that up. If I drive to work pretty much the bear pretty much. No. Uh So I live out and what's called the flats there's section Kodiak off and most people don't realize, but Kodiak is a huge island. It's actually second biggest in the US, I think, next to the big on Hawaii. But it's huge, but only like a ten percent of it. People actually live on. There's just the top right corner and that's where people live. And then that's it, and then there's like a few outlying a little like Port Towns type deal. But I think it's sixty seven miles of paved road. That's it. That's about as far as you can drive and go. I'm flowing over in the plains a couple of times and you're like, well, that's yeah, exactly so, and I know you're aware of this, but just for you know, for the people listening straight, it's section off basically to the main part of town. And then you've got the flats and everybody out there is called flat rats, and that makes me a flat rat. So there a little ways out in town. But you've got bears that they just get named by where they feed on the rivers down there, and there's just ample amounts of salmon the river, you know, going everywhere. But Sergeant's Creek is one of them where you just see people just line up on the side road taking pictures and uh causing traffic DRAMs kind of it's real pain. But uh no, so that between the busking Bear and Sergeant's Creek, it's like you're just seeing bears all the time. I've almost hit bears like I've hit deer back home, you know. So it's just it's a very common occurrence. And uh, ironically enough, I think it was like a week maybe a week and a half before the actual incident itself. There was a friend it was coming over to the house and uh, I lived in a guesthouse next to, you know, the main house, and we're all kind of gathered together in the main house and it was late at night, real real dark out, and I was just going back over to my house to grab some you know, food and drinks and bring back over. While I stepped out of the house and there's horses on the property. But I come out of the house and a lady that was over there, I had her pickup truck, you know, just kind of parked in the driveway, and I didn't think anything of it, and I you know, ran by and I heard some you know, kind of footsteps, and I just thought it was one of the horses. Well I just make it by the pickup truck and I just see this massive bear and it's just walking around like ship. You gotta be kidding me. And uh, fortunately, you know, it wasn't intact mood or anything startled it off. It was getting into some garbage and I actually shot it off the property. To that point, I had my my concealed carry on me and just just scared away, just kind of like, you know, shoe, get out of here. But uh, you know, it just goes to show like that if that bear wanted me, it was only ten yards away when I was just walking by, like pitts black, like there had been nothing that I could have done. There was some trash there for sure, like that's all it was interested in. And it's like, oh food and um uh right along those lines too, you know, after this whole thing has happened, and even before that, we've noticed real recently on Kodiak, uh, the bear kind of dynamic and what they're interested in. This past year has really changed, I think than the seasons prior. And I this is just a theory. I mean, Fish and Game could probably really dial it in, but the Reds didn't like run it all this year really just absence didn't happen. The salmon runs in general just started very very late. You know, even the Silvers when they finally came in, and it was a great season at the end, but I think the bears are really really hungry in the beginning and they're still kind of playing catch up because everywhere in town all we just see is just like bears pop and I'm getting into trash like way more than I've seen before in the past, and other guys that I know they've lived there for twenty plus years saying the same thing, like gathers it. Yeah, and and well, unfortunately that I haven't been aggressive, but just like I don't know, bold and like getting into people's trash like that, I mean just everywhere in the sea, like right by dogs and other people's houses, and like they don't care. And I would say that's the difference is their city bears, you know, it's the equivalent of a city bear versus you know, the rural uh tunder type bear that you're gonna see out like hunting and stuff. And uh but yeah, they've they've really really been bold lately. And it's it's nuts. Yeah, And there's a lot of companies that run bear tours and things on kodiaks. I'm sure you're well aware, right, And it's just it's it's the most interesting part about the dichotomy that exists there of like you live there, you see bears every day, like I see you know, maybe a deer every day or something like that. So the comparison of the two is is eerie to me, almost the same way that you know your daily your daily experience with a bears, like oh there's one, there's one, there's another one. That's that's unreal. H oh, it's it's it's wild. So I I grew up in Maine, so black bear, you know, it's huge up there. But even growing up there, I mean we lived out in the sticks, like small town six hunr people, and I could count on my hands the amount of times I've seen it bear. That's what I mean. I mean, like, and I grew up hunching my entire life. So to my father, and you know, he finally, you know, he got one, and he's been trying for years and years and years, but you just don't see him. The recluse, you know, just wild, but not that is oh salmon, Yeah, I'm just trash main Street. We don't care. Yeah, I mean that's you know, black bears are pretty much every state at this point, and um other than you know, Florida, is pretty famous for having a lot of black bear incidents. I mean, now new jerseys in the headlines around black bears. It's gonna shut the season down. Um. But but you don't. It's not something you know. I grew up in on the East Coast two and there were bears around, but I saw I think I can remember seeing one as a kid while hunting, and so I'm not sure there's many places on the planet Earth where you would see a bear every day on the tribute to work, it isn't. Um. So, how like when you when something like that happens, you come out, you see a bear in the trash can Is that something that ums talked about or is that a daily occurrence? Is that something that you know, bears that close to you know, the dwelling bears that close to you know. Yeah, And I think most pupils experiences just they all come from the city, you know, and like being in those type environments. And I think those bears specifically are just they're more skittish, you know, they don't they don't want anything to do with you for whatever reason, Like they're not trying to protect anything, even the garbage and stuff. They don't really like you know, have dominance over. I've never seen anything like that or her any incidents. I do think it's probably a matter of time, but it's definitely talked about, and of course, you know scares people, especially just seeing the size. Most people don't understand or really like they can't get the scale of it. You know, all you ever see is like TV and video and pictures and everything, and soon you see like a massive bear. It's like it's pretty big eye opening image. Especially uh, you know the differences between the lower forty eight kind of bear where people may have seen him before and then going to like Kodiak and I would think the same thing if I ever saw you know, polar bear like stepping it up in that realm too. It's like the more massively creature that more like yeah, really really like it's eye opening and funny enough, I've had that conversation with you know, differences and grizzlies and brown bears and you know the coastal are in then uh, and yeah, they just get huge off that salmon, you know obviously where the Kodiak brown bear gets his name. But yeah, I know people definitely talk about it, but for the most part, it's always just stories of like, oh, they come out and turn lights on or making noise and stuff like that, and bear just like runs off. That's what I was getting there. You know, you just don't it changes the first time somebody gets attacked in the front yard or somebody gets taking the garbage out and it gets you know, gets mauled, oh for sure. And it still worries me because we just see him around town. All I keep thinking is like, man, that one kid waiting at the school bus stop, you know that one time. And I grew up in the same thing as like in sticks and like nobody would ever know, you know, unless there was a bunch of other kids or something like that around. But they're so small and like kind of easy targets that that's what I worry about. Like if that bear is hungry enough and finally sees that, and I'd be like, I'm gonna capitalize on this, and there's you know, that's what's going to change everything, and yeah, then that would be gosh, that'd be terrible. But yeah, I mean it's it's just there's a different dynamic cohabitation. When you're cohabitating with a charismatic charismatic megafauna, giant fucking predator that could could could swipe you like that. I mean, it just is, you know, cohabitation with uncle, it's you're just you're helping manage that popular like the relationships a little bit easier to manage than when that's happening. But I have not you know, I know we both we have mutual friend Cole Cramer, Like I've talked to him a lot and hunting codyac with him a couple of years ago. It was in December, so we didn't see any bears, ye, thank god. Um, but just talking with him about that, I mean's a bear guide. Some of the stories that you know that he will tell. He's been on this podcast and if you go back and listen to UM, I think it's episode eighteen with with Cole, you'll hear some of these stories. But bears are killing machines and they're just important, Like there's their meat processing four legs. They're just yeah, and that's all they're thinking about. So, Um, the fact that you're living in this place, you know that you somehow, I mean you have to. There's no way that you're not getting used to habitually. You know, like habituated with bears, you are see him every day. Your your lens with which you see a bear is different than mine. Oh yeah, and I think, well one of the whole experiences definitely eye opening. And I don't think you ever really took it for granted. It definitely opened my eyes. But finally being you know, mauled and attacked really opened my eyes to me being a very big solo hunter and uh you know, just me and my bear spray. Yeah, not even that, It's like it was always having my my gun on me and uh yeah, I don't know. It's definitely opened my eyes and changed my my thought process on doing that from now on. But ironically, myself and the guy who ended up, you know, shooting the bear, both of us prior to the attack had gotten our deer. You know, I bagged our first year on the road system solo, like we by ourselves. Yeah, okay, mine was on opening day, got mine opening day. And uh, Cody acts like a jungle in the in the spring summertime like before that in opening days August first there and it is it's so the I mean the grass there and all and all the growth is over my head like there would be no question me being like quiet, doing the same thing, not having anybody else, Like I'm not making any noise that it could adjust as easily happened the same way. Like you know, speaking up on bear or something like that, like this guy, you know, like makes you think again, and I'm like, okay, you know, I thought I had this kind of dialed in, Like Nope, not so much. Yeah, I mean there just is, there is a general helplessness when it comes to proximity to bears. I mean, you can be prepared as you'd like, you know, like I said, you can have a side arm, you can have a rifle, you can have bear spray, and we'll get into your experience here in a minute. But you know, most not most times, but there are plenty of times where none of that matters. No matter how prepared you are, you're still helpful. You're still helpless because this is a giant killing machine for sure. You know, when you're out there, it's uh, you're not really in the food chamber. Doesn't make you the top of the food chaining, you know, like those things can do whatever they want. And I'm sure we get you know, machines that make us a little more capable than they are. But no, it's an extremely massive and powerful animal. It's you know, built to do a lot of dating ball of hair and muscle, or of sucking pussies, you know, really compared to the com Yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm I've been in a lot of wilderness situations where we're talking before we hit recording, like, I'm just lucky enough to have never I've had experience where I've seen bears and but just lucky enough never to really I've had to make any real decisions around Um, you know my proximity to to a bear. Um, but you know, I live in Montana. There's lots of people that that go hunting in Montana and Wyoming and all over Canada and Kodiak every year put themselves in a situation where the odds are low. They're very low, but there are odds. That's say, you're gonna run into a grizzly band, You're gonna have to make a decision. Um, And that's you know, doing doing that willingly is taking on an immense, immense risk. Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure, I know you're talking to you bro, No, No, I know it's I'm humbled by the experience for sure. And you know there's I got no ill will towards bears at all, Like I was just looking forward to getting back on the horse and unfortunately missing all the seasons now, But I don't know, Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't phaze me. I think like a lot of other people talk about it or think that you'll have some sort of like hate towards bears now, like kill all bears are all terrible things. He's like, no, no, not at all, Yeah, not at all. Yeah. So, and you grew up hunting, he said, with your dad's main for plenty of bears in Maine. Yep, plenty of bears. You know what what was your um? You know, how how did you come up? How did you grow up hunting? How did you get introduced to it? Like, you know, prior to living with Kody Ak, what was your so? Uh lived down in the sticks log having my father built. You know, I lived in the same house. You know, our entire lives and um prior to me, you know, going off to college, that's just all we did every fall and the hunting seasons they are very, very different and much more stringent. I guess than a lot of other states, as I came to find out. But you only get one one dear season, like that's it, white tail deer, and like boom, you're done. I think there might be some uh you might be able to get it, like a second one with some of the extended seasons there, but it makes you a hard hunter growing up in Maine and try to hunt. And I'm sure you know some of the other states are similar, but there is no warm hunting there. Like the coldest I've ever been in my life is, without a doubt, been times when I was hunting in Maine and just like sitting in the tree stand for five hours and like negative twenty and just freezing my sucking ass off. There's no way to give more. No, your blood's not moving, You're just sitting there. And that was the true test. And and the funny thing is is those are some of the best times I've ever had with my my pops, you know, growing up was just sitting in the tree stand like waiting or you know eventually we you know, split up and take a couple of different fields of fire there and uh yeah, just waiting for our gear. And it was a big deal, and that there's just no questions, like the more time you spend out, the more chance that you're gonna you know, see something or run into something. And I never grew up really doing stocking because the main woods it's it's it's it's almost impossible something at least in the areas that we were in. There's probably some more open open woods in different areas, but no, it's so thick they're and the time is season, everything's just snaps, it's crunchy, like you can't like it's it's almost some possible to actually like stock hunt deer there. The big, the big thing they're is just like sitting in the tree stand doing you're scouting and stuff in the preseason and find out where they're going to be and then just you know, waiting and setting up to their you know, your your dopist or whatever and accounting for the wind and have a different a couple of different sites. And father taught me everything for sure, but yeah, I started going with him well before I was able to hunt myself. And ten ten years old is the legal hunting age there. And uh, finally when I was ten, and this is one of my favorite stories actually, but uh. Uh. We had this place called Peas Farm and it was the uh and uh that was just a family that owned it, like back in the day. It's it's not there anymore, but huge tree stand at my pipe. My grandfather and his friends built up on this this huge back lot. Uh god, I don't even know how many years ago, and my father and I he wanted to take there's like okay, it's really big open spot and we're gonna go out, and ten years old and uh you know and not a stranger as the cold, but not really adept at it either. Finally go out and we're sitting there and of course, like I get cold within however, you know, an hour or two hours, because of course we're there before the sun rises. And it's like, okay, no ten year old has ever hunted nuts that I'm cold. Yeah, yeah, it's it's inevitable. And so it's like okay, it's like, well, do you remember your way back to the truck, and like yeah, it's like okay, we'll just go back to the truck and and turn the heat on and uh and you know, warm yourself up and then if you're ready to like come on back out. And so I go to the truck and um, I'm just sitting there and uh. The other funny part was is I was too nervous to turn the truck on because of the noise, and I was like, I didn't want to do it, so I just thought I could just turn the truck on and like the heat would come out, but of course that's just air blocking, so I didn't actually really get warm, you know. Just the kind of the walk made me get warm, I think. But I was sitting in the truck for a little while and my uh, Pops comes back open to the truck, is like zach Zac come out. He's like, there's a there's a deer, and he's like, okay, so I get my right. When we go out and we're kind of stalking. At this point, he remembered seeing the duck and it was a duck buck and uh, it was just a young buck. And finally we week he sees it kind of down this path and uh, we get up on it and I can't see it, and him like he's like, it's right, it's right here. And I'm kind of like looking and like, oh I see it. I'm trying to see it through the scope and it's on full powered. I just can't get on and like I don't see it. I don't see it, and he's like it's right there, and he's kind of cracking up laughing at the same time. Unfortunately, this we just had to win, just right in the bucks, like laying down and like very very fortunate. Man. I finally see it, like, oh yeah, I see I see it, and then uh yeah, I get get eyes on and take my shot. And it was laying down, didn't get up. It was just it was it was done, and I was just so excited and go over and get my first first deer kill. But it always just crapped me up. I'm like, it is just the worst deer kill that you could fussily imagine. I didn't do any work. Whoever out I tapped out, get out of the truck. You could have fallen over, like you were a safe. It was just about on pars what we call heat or hunting up there where people are just driving so you know, just you know, scouting glass in the fields, like what if anything is in the field after, you know, while I'm eating his donut. You know, my father hated that. He's like, no, those guys don't pay for it. No. One time I was in Saskatchewan hunt and they were like, here, what something call though? What's the thing called heater body suit? They were like, put this on. It was like negative twenty, like you're talking about. And I was like, okay, well you know what is it. It's like kind of like a sleeping bag. It's got heaters inside it, and so you sit there, you're totally comfortable. So I get up in this tree, stand, put on this little sleeping bag and turn it on, and I'm asleep in five minutes. Of course, I'm as sleep at five minutes. I mean I heated sleeping bag and I slept for like three hours working to get out of the tree. But but yes, I grew up much the same way. And so and the first year that I were killed, first year I was shot at fact, I just skinned her. I remember my my dad put shooting sticks on the ground. I put a rifle down. He's like, she's right there, she's fifty yards away. Like I don't I don't got it, man, I don't know what to do. I think I see the sky, but I'm not sure. And eventually popped a shot and skinner right shoulder. But yeah, I wish I had one laying down that great, yeah, exactly, Like it was easy killing there, but it was simpler that those times are simpler, you know, like that he weren't worried about how big it saidlers were or old spikeline. Yeah, I didn't need anything then you were just meat on the table. Yeah, first year kills the simplest form of hunting because it's just there's a deer, and I everything that goes into the actual killing of the deer is more important than the deer at that point, like getting your cross airs on it, exactly, hecty. I think the third line got was dough you know, the first time I got my my dope because you gotta get a permit to get dose up up there and yeah, well I got it. But you guys do a lot of venicity eating growing up. Yeah, Yeah, for sure. I'm always interested to ask, like how how it was cooked up, because there's always this like my dad cooked everything. Yeah no, no, I totally hear you. And it's funny because I've played around with like all kinds of different stuff and I really get into the cooking thing now, especially since all I do is eat game. Now. I don't even go to the grocery strud not for meat anyway, Like protein is halbot salmon, I'll go, dear, you know that's that's the freezer. You know, Phil it up and just changed it up every day. But no, I grew up with uh yeah, a lot of venison, um moose on a few occasions, caribou. My father went up to Canada and got some caribou at one point in time. Uh what else? We did have the black bear? When you got a black bearer at one time and eat, you know, country to belief, it's not that great eating, but you can't eat black bears like it's it's reasonable. And but his way was just straight up. It's like pan seared with butter, salt and pepper, and it's like that's it. And I was like, you know who put that cookbook out? Because it's not bad. I mean my like this last Thanksgiving, my dad tried up some tender learn I'm like, this tastes like my childhood and it's good. It's good. It's not good for you, but good. There must have been just a cookbook where somebody wrote like this is like three page cookbook and the first page said butter, the second page said salt, on the last page said pepper, and that was it. And seen it was like, that's what that's what my dad did. So I was wondering just being a couple of like generally East Coast kids, that that's what. Oh, that's that's that's definitely what it was. And I found my own ways of you know, what I prefer, and I don't mind it that way at all, but it always did crack gap saying no, that's all I want. And I'm like, well, it's kind of no wonder. My mom, you know, never really liked eating Man. She really didn't. She never liked it. She didn't like the gaming flavor. And I was like, well, that's because Pop's never prepared it any better way, like the kind of your flavorings. What if I put, uh differ kind of butter. Yeah, you know, get some fancy spices or some ball son like Connor, you know, marinate it, you know, yes, something. Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny that that generational change. I mean, it really is. It's something that I've experienced with my dad. My dad. I love my dad to death, and and um, there was just a different way, just a different way to treat treat the hunting and the meat, which I feel like the hunting parts almost more simple, you know, it's a simpler effort than some of the things we do today. But surely, um the meat still had reverence, but it just didn't have the same There wasn't you know, there's no fine point on how to on how to prepare it. It was for sure, what do you you want to stew or I'll pry it up. That's it. That's all we got. Yeah, it wasn't any other differences in no other way. And I think part of that was because my mom didn't need it, so he didn't really make it anything. He's like, I'm gonna I like it. So but you know, my uh my pops, you know, they're pretty poor grown up, especially when the kids. So the deer was just all about, you know, just getting food and meeting the freezer, feeding the kids. Like That's how it was. Even from my bay when he would uh go and get the deer, and he was all about eating like whatever extra parts and organs and everything else. Loved the heart. Heart was his favorite. Yeah, I still love the heart myself, and and liver as well, and even with the deer that I just killed a h on opening season and Kodiak like that was the first thing I did, is like all those organ meats and everything, and just like I stewed him up and now they're you know, they're frozen. I was waiting for, you know, the little colder because it was you know warm for Kodiac. It was like you know there, yeah, exactly, So in my mind I was just thinking, yeah, okay, too warm. Nope, I gotta wait for the nice cold, deep heart of winter and break that stuff out and yeah, delicious, you know it transporting back to the Cody Act across the world, basically across the country for sure. Yeah, yeah, as far as you can go. Time I've spent time in a coastal in a coastal Alaska environment, of any Prince of Wales comes to mind, you know, Kodiak comes to mind. Of course, the falcon that comes to mind. I always come away thinking this is a rich place, like this is game rich, wildlife rich. I mean, Prince of Wales is just jaw dropping with with what you see and experience there from wildlife perspective. But so is Kodiak. Um. But the second thing I think is what a harsh, harsh environment. Um, and that's you know, I would I would say the starkness of that relationship, and in most of the coastal Alaska is what draws me to it. I'm sure what draws you to it. I mean, you can have just amazing When we went to Kodiak with coal, I mean, it was bald eagles and blacktail deer and silver foxes, and I mean it's just it's it's a rich place. But then the river froze and we were struggling to get home, so turned a little harsh. Yeah. Um, has that been your experience kind of going through the seasons on Kodiak. Yeah, there's a lot of similarities to me. That's kind of what drove me there in in the first place. But Kodiak doesn't really have that that full fourth season kind of effect. It's more of winter and then summer. The shoulder seasons are just kind of mixed in, and the summer there isn't really warm. You know, it's just those long days because being close to the you know, the Arctic circling up north the poles, you get those really really long daylight hours and then they're really really long, uh well, dark hours, I guess lack of lack of daylight hours. And the harshness is definitely like the driving point and in me being there and really testing the limits. And it's even in May never grew I never really grew up with the the harsh range you get there. I say, the rain is like almost the worst. And I've never been at Washington Seattle like that kind of climate where you just hear about it raining all the time. But I swear to God, it will get below thirty two degrees in Kodiak and it will still be raining somehow. And it's the harshest thing that you ever have to deal with. Is especially like out hunting or doing anything in in the woods, is be on the kid through that because it's just like, how is this even possible? And you're just you can't stay dry, It's almost impossible. I've tried so many different types of clothing and gear and and and you know, that's what I really enjoy doing anyway, And man, is it wild being out there. And then you just get hit with these you know, maritime winds, and it's that really salty air and it's just corrods and and crushes everything. They don't even salt the roads, but your vehicle has got like a ticking time bomb. You know that salty air is gonna, you know, do its own damage. But it is. It's a very very unique place and the same that you see with a snowpack. There, um do a lot of snow work and travel, and uh, that maritime snowpack is just you might have like a a good day of powder when it's like initial and then it just turns the ice just this solid crust of ice and um and guys get their experience that even if they don't go out and hunt really quick as you're familiar with, and and flying in and out of coach because it's it's its own beasts and you're just you're gonna expect if you're there, you will get a delayed flight or canceled flight. Oh and bless the pilots that live on Codia. These are insane human beings. These people, Yeah, they're they're the most skilled. But also I've never met one that wasn't just I mean, i'mous crazy. Yeah, I gotta a few of them I met. I won't name a name, but one time they uh landed us in the lagoon drop us off on the beach, had to go hike up after blacktail deer. And we landed and kind of tax it up to the to the beach there and before we could even get our packs or anything out of the out of the plane are, our pilot was running up a hill with a pistol with like a ten mill chasing a black tail around on the beach. Of course he was he was like, hey, hold the line, hold the plane here, I gotta I'll be back. You think, run up there, like that's about far for this course. That sounds the screws are some of the screws are a little bit loose. Oh yeah, no, And that's that's exactly how you'll just see it happened. Like later on in the season. A lot of people who really enjoy the hunting and kind of the whole experience, you know, going out and trying to find a deer. Ah, we'll go out and just brave it and get through just the ship terrain that involves. And the terrain is hands down the worst part. You have the drain and the weather, and really only in Kodiak can you find such extremes to have the salt water right there coastline and then it just it just explodes up and it is extremely extremely steep alpine climates and yeah below the alpine climates are like hummocks that you can barely walk on when it can and uh as I we talked about earlier than my opening uh day hunt and the vegetation there's just like jungle like there's certain parts if you're not going to the right place, like it's impassable. It really is, especially getting a steep train and you can't even your body will not push any further, like through the uh salmon berries, you know, glorified uh thorn bushes you know up there that just like tear you up and getting through that's just insane. But the other uh ironic part there that most people aren't aware of is that unlike Colorado spent a lot of time there, the alpine there is usually like eleven thousand feet give or take, and in Codiac's eleven feet and that can be a blessing and a curse. Like it's a good thing. It's like, obviously you're not fighting altitude or anything like that high up, it's it doesn't it doesn't affect you. However, it's just just shows you that extreme either change that just happens in such a short amount of time where you're just going from sea level to eleven feet and you're just going to be in it like ridiculously high winds, like getting blown over. Yeah. I mean in general, that's not that far up, not at all. You know, you can do two thousand feet in some place in New Zealand and other places that it's not really you know, not really that harsh. Yeah, But on Kodiak it's different. It's it's insane and the So another funny story here. The the day that I showed up in Kodiak, you know, I kind of went right in. It got with you know, some friends that already dow they were there and I want to go out and spend some time overnight, uh in the field. And it was right around hunting time again, hunting season. I got it there in like late July and hunting season open on August one, and I was really really motivated and like, okay, I don't know this are at all. I was talking to some guys like okay, where do I go? So they're kind of pointing me in this direction, like hey, go go this right out and and I'd never experienced the same type of jungle ship show as I did uh in Kodiak, and I swear to god, I was going out the night before. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go out, bivvy out overnight and hunt the following morning, you know, break it down, like be upgrady to go. I had a good place in mind, like took my maps and everything, and of course I wasn't to wear bears at this time or either I knew sneer they were there and went out and I thought it was a prank. I thought the guys are just like they're pulling my chain. They have them and over on me, and I was just pissed the entire time. I'm like, how do you get through this? And like there's no way. They were saying, there's no way I can get all the way up there, and like in this it was just horrible. They call that, they call it the gar hole. I'm like, and they actually really meant it. But there was just like I really got a full appreciation of deer paths there and understanding it's like, Okay, there's definitely a level of suck that you're gonna have to put yourself through, but I was still experience gonna you know, or of the false presumption that I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go through and find a place that just like opens up and I can walk in like a origin line or something, and it's like it never did. They're like, no, this this dear path, like if you step one step sideways, like you're off it and you'll never find it again. And it's it's just one of those brutal quick learning experiences. Yes, yes, And I think maybe the Kodiak Island Tourism Board might not like this podcast. Yeah, it's true. Man, if you like, if you know, there's there's companies like companies like sick of Gear and other companies that that really rely on folks like coal and others that that live and hunt in that environment to test the gear, because again, it is one of the harpstist and harshest environments that you will come across in question anywhere in the world, I feel. And so I think that's a good setup to get into what happened to you. Um, and we also have to get into what you know, a falk Knack island. I think a falkneck island from a lot of folks listening to this and even for those who haven't heard the Themitre podcast, which is Steve Rinella um Remy Warren in a bunch of camera guys, they're filming the Mediator podcast of doing a Medior podcast filming for the Mediator TV show on a fog neck. Um. I think this would have been last year, and they were charged by a big old bear and uh an interesting story ensued. Luckily there no one was injured at all, rather than some um some mental hurdles to get over after the fact. But that's where I first heard about Falkneck, and I think that's probably where a lot of people first heard about a fog Neck because Kodiak is um a familiar name to those in the hunting industry and the fishing industry and even you know, just regular folks at large. But a fog Neck is just a different place, oh for sure, so uh for the people unaware. So everything is is a part of Kodiak, but it has so many outlying islands, and a fog Neck is kind of the northern big island just attached from Kodiak proper. There's about a bunch of other islands up there. Raspberries a really well known one for its elk and um and likewise with a fog neck, and there's also a marmot and spruce and all these other ones. But we were out on a fog neck specifically for the elk hunting, really really well known for its elk population out there, and these elk are ah incredible. First of all, we had done a hunt me and some of the other guys the prior year and just capitalized and it was awesome, had a great time and uh, these are just massive. They're not like the Colorado or Wyoming type elk w you have, you know, the massive racks, but they're just huge. One of the biggest body and uh and we had a fantastic time. And I got to go with another guy um the same year prior to that, and uh he he drew, so he had a draw and he actually did his on Raspberry and did win there. So I've had a couple of good elk hunts there and we wanted to repeat this year. So it just puts a lot of good meat and the freezer for everybody. And I think that answers the question of after I've heard Remy and Steve's story. You know, the question becomes why a fog mack? Knowing you know the inherent danger of the environment. I mean it's harsh, harsh environment, especially the times that you were there and when those guys are over there. So I mean it's rain, it suck, it's hard to move around, it takes you know, oh, we only have to get a mile that direction. Well that's gonna take us four hours. Um, so it's it's we'll get into you know, let you describe a little bit of your experience. Is there. But you know the question of why becomes it's close to where you live. It's a plane right away, and there's giant elk there that can give you a year's worth of meat. That's probably four pounds of meat, yes easily, you know you split it up, and it's it's incredible and uh yeah, I know the boys and I, uh so I go for an elk hunt and uh we took a boat over actually, um and got to our kind of hunting spot where we do how uh let's say like an hour and a half. That's not long. No, it's not it's not bad at all. Um, not from the main like Dog Harbor area, and Kodiak anywhere you launched from it. That's probably where most people launch from anyways, Dog Harbor, And it just kind of depends on, of course, the sea state and the tides because there's some passes that you can take to get there. Um, they can get through, otherwise you gonna go all the way around. They'll take a lot longer, but I think about an hour and a half that is what it was. And as a resident, is it pretty easy to grab a tag to go over there? Yeah? No, Um, the registration hunt opens. Um all on the kind of for lack of a better term, I guess, quota on on how the draw hunts go. So the ELK has really really highly regulated, and it was let's see two seasons prior to this one where none of us actually got to go. We were trying to make it work and get everybody organized, and they shut it down. So the way it works is the draw hunts all happen and then uh, I guess some years they might not even open it, but they'll open it on the same date. Uh remember what it it was this year. I think it's November or something like that. That sounds about right. Maybe, Oh, no, October would be October. Yeah, it had to be so October I think is when it opens for the public and you just go pick up your tag. It's free, and every day to call in find out if it's still open, and then as soon as you do get one, you're required to call it in I think within forty eight hours really the same day as oftenly what you want to do, um, just to let them know what the population is, and then whether whatever quota they set fishing game does then it's like closed down and unlike all you know, most other hunts you have like five days, it's like, okay, five days calling, but it's like the Elk is very very strict and um because it's all it's all herds there and um, I don't know where that's going on that. But yeah, October three, and we kind of switched out with some other guys on this hunt and sent some other guys over there first and then we swapped out with them and they didn't have any any luck whatsoever. And as you well know, and I know he has get some good experience over there. I've seen some of the shows and podcasts as well. But the weather is just also just as crazy over there, even probably more so, I think, um, because there is no roads, no really well taken past or trails. Like if you're gonna find something, your goal is to kind of get up the ridgeline and and then hopefully you can see but at the cloud cover is low enough, you're not gonna able to see anything, Like you just can't get anywhere. And uh, obviously come to find out, it's like the bear population there is is well aware of elk and and the people there, and they're not city bears. You know, they're very u well versed in in being the primal creature over there. Did you like when going into this this particular hunt and you hunt up before obviously, and um, going into this hunt, what's your you know, what's your mindset? You know if this would be a lot of questions in one but had you had any bear experiences on a fog neck prior and going into this hunt? What was your preparation as far as communication with the mainland um and medical supplies and and protection from bears? I mean, I know, like that's informed by just your general knowledge of wilderness or medicine and and what you've done in the past, but that's also informed by you know what you've seen over there, and UM, so yeah, me and the boys, Uh, it's always standard for us every time we're going out bringing a STAP phone. Um, we always have a SAP phone with us. At least one guys have that. We actually had multiple dorm in reaches with us. A fantastic yeah, and well it's funny enough. I've got to get a story on that when we when we get to it. UM in comparison, I guess, but uh, and then guys have gps is and cell phones as well that we use for gps is. All of us pretty much use the Guy app on our cell phones. It's it's it's great, but no, those are kind of our our primary like electronic devices that we use. UM. And then we always have a first aid kit that everybody has pretty much standard with them as well as turning kits. And then every guy's got one of those, UM, and then everybody's carrying with them. Some guys will have like a little bit more or less depending but you know, everybody, everybody's got one of those. The dorm injury which is I think we had at least two, and then at least like a plethora of rifles. You know, and and pistols combos thereof, so I think we pretty much covered our bases. And to be honest, like when this all went down, I still think it went down textbook like couldn't win anybody better under the circumstances, and uh, never had any better experiences over there before, and honestly before that had never even seen. Yeah, it was kind of kind of surprised even us. So the year prior to when we did the elk cunt um, we kind of came up with this system. We did it all in one go and got the elk scunum, brought all the meat away from the carcasses, and then built kind of a new site with a fire at it. And arthury is just you know, having the fire hopefully keep the air away or at least kind of determined for a little while. And then we just kind of did this uh shuffling uh short movements. Um, we just go a few hundred yards, make another fire, bring the meat over there, and then just cart back and forth and then just basically go fire to fire to fire to fire until we got back to the boats on the beach. And system really really worked good. Never saw any bear. Uh. The only thing we saw at that point was foxes. The foxes obviously he's like, who meat, you know, like on the on these islands. Oh for sure, we've done a buffalo hunt. Um. I think first year I was there down towards the south end of the island, and uh, that was the first thing that I saw pop up. As soon as our buffalo wing down, like that great fox came like right up to me. Didn't care all, he was just like, hey, what's up. It's like just nose in the air, like looking it's like, oh I smell smell meat and he was ready to go. But uh, it never really came up before. But that's another thing I think with the wildlife in Kodiak is there's no real predators. I think, uh, like other places, the bear, as much as I know that they can take down like deer, elk and buffalo, it's not really a normal occurrence. They rely on you know, meats or meats, berries and twigs that they're inland or if that's where they're going for and then mainly the salmon of course, and that that's always their main food consumption. So I think they'll take carcasses and stuff like that when it's when it's there and ready, and especially the more hungry they are. But I don't know, I think just probably a waste of energy for them, so they don't actually try taking them down. More scavengers, um, but yeah, no predators there. But anyway, uh yeah, back back to the fog neck and I would say, like as a um, you know, to make your point a little bit, you'll go to Kodiak Island and look at how many blacktailed deer there are. There's no way that that predation is that strong. What you look, the predation numbers can't be that high because they're deer every everywhere everywhere. Well I have to go on a tangent on this one now, but specifically with the deer, it wasn't. This year was great, phenomenal, fantastic deer everywhere. The deer looked really really healthy, a lot of fat on them. Both mine and the ones other guys that I work with killed like really really good, healthy deer, which is really great to see because the year prior was horrendous. Almost nobody got dear, very very scarce. And the reason for that, in my hypothesis and other guys that I've talked to, is all because of an kind of an early freeze, and it just killed off all of the salmon berries. There was no salmon berries, uh like on island at all. There was no season because a lot of people go out and harvest and pick them and you know, make stuff with them, pies and juices and whatever else, and completely killed them off. And therefore I think that, you know, the deer population really hurt, not probably just because of the salmon berries, but other things that that that frost could have killed as well, just to hurt the population so much. But the deer just thrived there. And from what I've been told is like the entire population of deer on Kodiak started with like seven deer on a separate island on Long Island, just off the coast there, and I think some down in the south then as well, and they just dropped them off. And the deer from Long Island, you know, they swam over and the ones in the south are like that, all just like populated, just like blew up, completely just thrived there, hearty creatures with the harsh conditions, but of course with no predators. That's that's what takes it down. It's it's it's the harsh conditions and the weather and event nevitally that's so it's not like they're dealing with coyoutes and wolves and you know, other predators to take them. Yeah. I mean with low predation generally low predation numbers, and winter kill being you know, winter kill and predation being kind of a habitat loss kind of being the three things that normally will drive population numbers down. There's not a whole lot of any of those things other than winter kill going on. But do you know I could just scratch the surface. Yeah, I mean the one time that I hunted blacktail deer and codyak. I mean you could look across the flats, look across the Hummack flats and it would be two deer and one. I mean, I have photos of two deer standing in one flat cheese over there. That's I'm swarm of secrets. You can't tell you where's right, I get it. But yeah, but but that's you know, that's my experience on one small part of the island. But for sure is in that harsh environment, to see those animals fry like that, that's that's um. It was always amazing to me. Yeah, you know they're like you said, hardy animals. Back to falkneck another tangent, all good tangents, but podcasts are about are all about tings. So so you had never you had quite the system for for getting your meat out, um, and never had any any bare experiences to this point, but still very prepared. I mean, you guys are all carrying side arms for not not everybody. Some guys that side arms, and uh, some guys had rifles and then some guys didn't have anything. At the point. It just kind of like because of the situation where we did, uh go for the elk, things had kind of changed over the course time. At first everybody everybody had a rifle on them, um, but our our goal had changed, like okay, we're only getting one elk, and uh that was really the deals, like okay, we're only getting one elk. This times like just bringing out because kind of setting up for that. Uh, the guys prior hadn't seen anything. The conditions were just horrible. They were just got awful, Like it was really really high winds, heavy rains, cold, and we just wanted to focus on normal conditions, normal normal conditions there and even the cloud cover was was low a lot of the times and of course affected visibility. So first we were gung ho and I think we were there for two days and hadn't seen anything. We didn't even see any deer, like we're just talking about the deer population. Didn't see any deer, didn't see any elk and see any bear, didn't see anything, no fox. That's like, I didn't see anything living practically, and it's like, you gotta be kidding me. It's like nothing, and we're like, okay, that was a little disheartening, and the other guys with the same way and like, okay, well, it's definitely it's a relatively big island. When you're on foot and having to work, like you've mentioned before, it's like it takes you hours to go anywhere, so you gotta kind of set yourself up, and not knowing where the actual like population of elk is like can really hurt you. Did you guys bring any like bear fencing or when you camped every night or did you just no just camping yep, just asses out and hope nothing bad happens. Talk about that a lot, because we spent a lot of days out in the field, like sleeping overnight, and uh, spent a lot of nights out in the field in a biddy and just this you know, small like rainproof sack and just call a bear burrito because it's gonna be a bad day if that bear decides that you just fell really good and decides to take you open there. Yeah, exactly, And nope, that's all we had is just our shelters, and we were down more towards the coast, and because of the numbers, we weren't. We've never really had issues Before's as soon as you have the meat and all that, I think that's when it changes everything. They're willing to you know, they're willing to inch a little bit further in because of the reward, rather than you know, how many guys you have in your in your univeing myself, yea five people. That's a good determ for a better But when there's the the encouragement to come and check that meat out, it's probably a little bit more. I think the I don't know, people have different theories and their own stories, and I think fire always helped to do so. It's like when you have a base game, you know, having that fire, it's kind of like Okay, I think I don't know if you're cooking something that's going to change stuff, But as soon as you have a fire in the smoke, I would think that, you know, the bears don't really like that, but then again, maybe they do. There's some theories on the gunshots and Kodiak being like dinner bells. You hear that all the time, and it's like, Okay, that's the time that you have to be most aware, like bear aware, as they saying, because is like as soon as that happens, like you're just waiting. Did you guys ever consider bear spray as as something you would do? Would you do? You know? Like, and I know I got a lot of guys use it. I'm not a huge proponent of it. Um. I still prefer, you know, a side arm if I'm gonna carry something and not carry a full rifle. Otherwise I always try to carry a full rifle with me. Um. I don't know. The bear spray supposedly works, but as we talked about with the the guy that was just uh just got mauld in Montana, you know, hit twice by that sow and she obviously ran straight through the bear spray. And I've heard other accounts of that, and I think with the bears that are there, if they want you, if they want what you have, they're gonna get it. It's only for Yeah, I think that kind of bear that's kind of curious. That makes you feel more uneasy, like in all honestly, like with with a bunch of guys around, like you're probably gonna scare the bear off. The bears probably not gonna like have any interest and eventually go away. He might get close, that might scare you, but like you're probably pull out the bear spray. I think in fear. And that's why I think a lot of times like you hear about the you know, the false charges and people shooting bear and it does kind of suck. It's like, yeah, of course you can't protect yourself and others, but when a bear is just kind of like, hey, you're in my area and just kind of like yeah, the charges, that's a confused. It's hard and you know, I know other hunters have have had those experiences plenty of times before, including Coal, as we discussed before. I love the guy and you know what's up Coal, But when when he actually hitting up path event event when he found out and he gave me like, hey, assholes, supposed to be me to get to Like I'm the bear guy, Like this is supposed to happen to me first, not you. So he gave me plenty of ship. But yeah, I know it's a very real thing. And the bear spray if if you're gonna if that's all you got, awesome, you know that that's all you got. But definitely strength numbers and you guys always stick together when you're when you're in a place, and that was, you know, the part of the thing. But um, again, we were just focused on the elk then, you know, not seeing anything else. The last thing any of us were expecting to run into is bear, um in those conditions, and well let's let's get into it. Yeah. So so you guys had a hunted a couple of days not seeing hot nor hair. Yeah, nothing, I think it was and I take that back. I think it was the end of the second day, just as the sun was going down, where another guy was with me, he spotted them. Finally, we're like, we're just trying to find different spots, like going through the spruce and uh and and finding open areas where you can kind of glass and see whatever we can see. And finally high up on a ridge line, I saw like two to four of them, I think, well now three four, like four alcayop on the bridge line. Way, thank god, Okay, it's like we finally saw something. We know that they're they're awesome. Immediately, like all right, let's break down, let's head back, let's see where we can get the boats in like with you know, with the surf and the wind that the way they were, we want to make sure. And I kind of make this plan of attack to get up to where they were the following morning. So always scolpted it out, looked on some maps, just kind of glass the area, and uh found this bridge line that we decided to take, and um made our plan and you know, set up following morning, got up early, early before the sun and started hiking up and certainly no easy going there. You know, it took us, took us a little while, but we made it up, and I think the line was still the best that we could have taken. And finally got up on the ridge line and hadn't seen anything, and conditions were still terrible. I think the weather predicted that, you know, it was supposed to be better. Of course it was not the opposite. It was actually more rainy, and uh I didn't seem at first, and we had our suspicions because if people aren't aware, you know, elka very no mac they're not like deer would say, oh sun goes down, like they're gonna graze a little bit, maybe bed down, like they'll probably be there, and then moving the elk and move like really great distances like off in the night. And so of course we get out there are like, shit, my gosh, damn it, like where are they? And I started walking the ridge lines more and finally saw them, but it wasn't for as the whole herd, and I hadn't seen a full herd of elk yet. Um no, well in Kodiak anyway, like I've heard it like okay, there's always you know, big herds of them, but we've always just seen like one of twos and that's what we hunted, and honestly that's kind of better just because you don't have so many eyes on you. But finding the herd was like really really nice to were like, oh, we were just extent, you know, really really excited finally finding them. So we're at the top of the ridge line there at the bottom of the valley, and then it was kind of like great, but now what do we do? And of course we're just sitting there for a while looking around and how far below you are they at this point, I don't know what elevation we were at. We were pretty high, we had we were definitely above alpine, so I don't think we're at the top elevation feet or so, and then they were almost probably at sea level, yeah, not not very much higher. So um, there was very little cover getting down to them. A lot of older but not really like good spruce where you're gonna get a shot anyway. So that was really the talk is like, Okay, how do we get down to these elk um within range, get a shot, and then of course getting him out else or out afterwards. And we figured probably just take the valley out, but uh, we decided like, hey, there's five of us, let's split up, three go on one side of the herd and to stay on the other side of the herd, and we basically just kind of trying to make our way down and pray that they don't just find out we're there. And then jet on the other side of the alley. Hopefully they'll just kind of like either move one way or the other. Because they weren't really moving too much. They were they seemed a little weird, little off. We couldn't really tell what it was. And so we're just like, okay, let's just split them, get down. Then whoever can take a shot. We'll hear the shot and like cool, that's it, and then go to the other guys. And uh so we started moving, and myself and two other guys with the three man group and I started moving to to one side of them, making our way across the ridge line then eventually down and then of course we run into three other hunters and as it seems, oh my god, I couldn't believe it. We were just just in awe. One we'd already been there two days. Like it was definitely like a piste off moment. And they were below us. They never saw us, um far far down below it. They were just glassing and it's like, okay, rightfully, so however they got there, you know, they got there. They were clear, they're in front of us. But it piste us off because no tact whatsoever right out in the open, moving straight towards the alkin like okay, no, one of the elk are kind of like weird, you know, their eyes are up all on the hills. Were like, well, there we go. It's like these you know whatever, gentleman exactly, yeah, gentlemen. I don't know who they were, but it was like, yeah, definitely annoying. They're probably just they wanted to be fair chase yea yeah, right, and uh, you know, they were doing their thing and whatever. Maybe it worked out for all I don't know, but obviously it ticked us off and like, okay, well rightfully, so these guys are lower and to get them sort of like the right away, but like we're not gonna end here, like all right. The three of us decided like, hey, let's book it back to the other side, kind of kind of climb back up the bridge line, make your way over, trying to spook the elk, and then get back with the other two guys. We're like, okay, from there, we're just gonna try to make our way down and uh get on the other side. So it's like, hey, if if we get down low enough we take a shot first, then so be it. Or if they take a shot. Hopefully they'll kind of like push them drive them towards us, so we're kind of be ready. So I kind of took the lead, running, sprinting my ass off to link up with the other two guys, and um, the two that were with me were behind me, and we're just kind of moving across the bridge line. I start making my way across and then eventually down and I'm just kind of starting to break down out of alpine into the order of the thick brush there, and I saw the hats sticking out of the order of one of the other guys, so that was kind of my eye. And uh, one of the guys that was with me, he got my attention. He's like, hey, he's like, we want to take another line down. And we were separated, you know, a good distance at this point. So I started my waking making my way up towards him. And this is a really really steep hill and a matter of fact, there's a there was a cliff kind of separating us. Um, not huge or anything, but it's probably you know, thirty wide, maybe like tall, just enough that it's like he's not gonna like jump down over it. It's like he's going to be above it with the other guy, and I'm below it, and we're kind of converging at that cliff and then paralleling at that point. So I'm kind of just coming up towards the cliff, kind of kind of back up the hill at this point, and I step over this rock, kind of climb over like terrain feature, so to speak. And as soon as I do, I stand up and turn and right down the older five yards away there she is. And immediately, like, you know, just stop frozen and at this like what's she doing? She looking at you, she looking away. So so that was it was like when I saw it was just just a big ball for like, no features, no anything. I just see is this big thing of fur, and you know, I just I just stopped him, like I couldn't really make out anything. And of course everything immediately like slows down. And the way I really have related the story with other people that I've told is kind of like the state of flow, where I'm like, okay, everything immediately went slow motion. I got like no concept of time from this point on, like everything we slowed down, making all the decisions in my head, and um so for me, I'm just say you know, the gears are turning, and the first instinct I didn't know, you know, I just big thing of fur. Okay, what is it? You know? My mind's like okay, processing, processing, because I'm not even think about Bear. I'm thinking about Elk, and I'm like, okay, that's not the right color. And the color was actually like grayer. It wasn't really brown like even brown Bear and Elk, and I'm like okay, processing. But of course, no time whatsoever. I just I just stand up there. And as soon as I did, I took a step back, and because it kind of dawned at me, finally, okay, this, whatever it is, it's not good. I know I know better, and took one step back, and whether it was the point where she finally heard me or finally smelled me and caught wind of me, she just turned her head and charged like immediately, and and as soon as I took the step back, I knew that was going to be the case. Anyway, Like I said, with my experiences as the Bear, it's like everything's good, fine and dandy, because you don't surprise them like you never surprised at Bear, Like they know you're there well before you do otherwise, like you're hunting it from like hundreds of yards yards away, you know you're glassing them, but like if you're that close, like no way they know you're there. And so as soon as I did him, like there was no doubt in my mind, like this is gonna happen, Like there's there's no getting out of it. You don't feel like she was processed anything she smelled it was instinct, like there was instinctual like there's danger, something's not right. I have to address this issue. There was no and and be five yards, but I don't have to exaggerate the distance where or I know I know five yards very well. And for people unaware, you know that talk about running away from bears and stuff, bears running thirty plus, Like that's that's a leap, you know, a way that the bears can just they're insane. That's like somebody fast. You'd be in five yards from the hood of a car and somebody flooring it. You're thinking you're gonna jump out of the way. They could cover a let's see, five yards and in a millisecond really well a top speed. So yeah, it took a little bit longer than that. But in real time, Like that's a second really, and how long I mean you're when you're processing you see the bear, you're processing it, it's moments until it charges you. I mean no, no, it was almost instantaneous. Like I said, I stood up, and and I did take a step back because it once it immediately clicked, which is you know, probably a millisecond. She probably as soon as I stood up, probably smelled me or whatever, and it took her probably a millisecond to just a turn. So I don't really know that the time wise there, but I just knew there was no she didn't she wasn't standing up. There was no like snore, there was no like you know, kind of bluffing beefing up. It was just like like it startled her, you know, scared, and she's like what is this that just really snuck up behind me because just by her head turn she was facing downhill and and my suspicion as well these other guys she's probably hunting the same elk. We were like I wanted, you know, something to do with whether she was going to hunt them or like you know, capitalize on something else. She was there for a reason, like right near the elk, and she was just hunkered down and the older either sneaking weight making her way through or just like waiting. And so when I came up behind her was sheer surprise. So of course instinctively, I immediately yelled out there and instinctively was pulling my rifle up. I ripped the scope cover off and started presenting, you know, my rifle, and I knew. I'm like, this isn't gonna happen, and this is the first time and I've I've shot it a few times now, But I got a new uh a new rifles six five creed More, and I was really excited about it because it was insanely like my goal is I really like guns, and I huge prom like I just love shooting in general. But I built this specifically to be extremely light, like the lightest rifle I have. The whole thing with five rounds is less than six pounds, so it's like a toothpick, you know, you're holding it. So it's so great, you know, great's gonna be great for goats and future out kinds and everything else. But of course it's not gonna take down to bear, never in a million years. Every it's for people who don't know. It's just a little little, teeny tiny round like it's it's goes shoot fast and straight and it's gonna take a lot of shot placement, but it's it doesn't have a lot of power, and especially for a bear, and I knew it. My note, I'm like, okay, if I get the hip shot, if anything off, it's just gonna piss off. It's not gonna take you down. Then I'm gonna take five pounds to the face and the body and just I'll end up like one of those stories. And all of this is just turning my mind. And I knew it. Started raising it, threw it down, and then I just Superman down the hill. And of course when I say that, it's like, yeah, it's a little bit of a drop, but I'm not really going anywhere, and uh, I just kind of jumped in the alders and covered up my head and neck as best I could, and again no concept of time, but it felt like I didn't even hit the ground, and she was already on me. She had a bite in the back of my leg, high up on my right leg, just just below my ass, and she picked me up just by that and just threw me threw me over that same like rock like kind of terrain features that I was kind of falling down. I I fall on my head. She's just kind of like just throwing me around like a rag doll. She picks me up and as I'm falling, she's trying to rebite me, and she she bites me in the nuts and I'm kind of like head down, face down. I just feel top two canines like going into the taint and like that's not good, like fall and she's just bite me in the leg like traveling on the leg. Bites me real hard, almost like kind of behind the knee at this point. Unfortunately, like the guys were Johnny on the spot, of course, this is just like second stances are happening and the guy do you remember screaming or yeah I did on the first one. But it's it's funny, you know, training dogs. I think I had a lot to do it. And when you train dogs like for for bite working stuff, uh, it drives them. Just like when they say of the animals, like the whole playing dead thing, it actually has a lot of truth behind it because it is it's just kind of like this instinctual prey that when you do bite or when they bite, like when you scream, it just drives them even more to buy the hardest theff first when I yelled out, and I'm like, like that was obviously making things way worse than like, okay, this is it. It's like this is gonna suck, like it's gonna be really really bad. And even when I dove, like I knew that, like there's no protecting myself, is fully relying on everybody else around me to take over this point, I'm like, okay, here's trusting the boys, like I know they know their ship, like this is it. Yeah, Yeah, I'm just I never let go like just head, you know, our hands behind the head and neck and uh you know, I kind of got a ash in my eye from just getting thrown into some alder or something at some point, but I'm like, yeah, I'm not letting go like this is you know, this is all I got like to to hold onto. And um, right when she was stolen the legs, she uh the guy above me took a shot, you know, and uh you know, as he tells it too, obviously we all collected her own stories after the event, and uh he he didn't hear what I said. None of them did, Like they're all like somewhat close by, but they just they couldn't make out what I said, Like I was yelling bear, but I just said at once and then I was, you know, mauled, and they just heard the scream and then they heard all the growling and then then you know, immediately immediately new So all I did is get up over the cliff and he peered down. He had to kind of make a judgment call at that point because I couldn't see me, like the bears just like engulfed on me, like couldn't see him at all. Made a judgment call and putting you know, hiring her back. And wherever that bullet ended up, I don't know, but for actually it didn't end up me, and and you know I would have done the same thing, Like I'm thankful he did it and I didn't kill her. You know, it just kind of piste her off and not a fear and anger. She beat me again, like kind of clawed on my back at this point, and backpack definitely stone. I even told calls like hey man, like I know you know that all those guys like let him know I was like definitely saved my ass um, and I got a few claw marks on my back, but no, it definitely took some took some heavies and uh save me. But she you know kind of got uh to the side and then sunk one into my arm pretty good, and uh then the second shot went out just she just reloaded really quick quick put another one in or had a little bit better shot then and that one dropped her, you know, kind of at that point heard her enough. I heard a very distinct moan, kind of that killed shot type type deal, and she fell kind of on top of me, but a little bit of the side to not really in off of me. And ironically it was I was a little more nervous at that point, even not being bit, because she was right there. I was more nervous about my my the back of my head and neck because I couldn't see her at all. I'm kind of on my left side, you know, with my hands behind my head and neck and looking up the hill with the two other guys that were with me, um when we split up, and uh, all I could see was or all I could just feel is just her and like I could hear the breath I feel the firm, like, oh god, I'm like, just don't bite me, like that's all I kept think. I was like, all right, I'm hoping that bite doesn't come like on my head or something. Unfortunately, she started kind of crawling away. She was obviously really hurting at that point and uh barely kind of stumbling crawling away. I couldn't see her. I was just still faced uphill. But the other guy that was um with me and the other one when we split up, he ran down the hill and he had a glock uh twenty on him with a ten mill, and uh, he just kind of got to me, pulled out the clock, ran by me and just dumped a mag you know, just magat and finished rock make sure she'd be gonna come after us anymore. And um, immediately at that point is when I just started taking the backpack off on, zipping clothing like trying to get things. Couldn't move my leg at all at this point. It was just I knew that was the worst of it. And a little side note on this one, Unfortunately I was completely unaware of what I found out afterwards. Is when they took that first shot, is uh, you know, put when her in her in her back, they saw a cub out of the alder So of course, like I've told everybody, was like not having the experience that I do with bears, which is pales and compared to some to some people of course, but they're not aggressive that they're not nasty. It's like a been around Stiles and Cause before and just keep your distance. But with the conditions the way they were, with the heavy rains and the winds, like a come up on her and definitely surprised her. She was probably hunting territorial and she had a cub. It's like, there's no no, I mean, it's perfect, that's the perfect storm lack of a better term, and her height and protective instincts any surprised she knows the cub and it sounds the covers below her probably yeah, so yeah you were you know, so you it was you her and the cub. Yeah. I never saw the cup at all. You know, it was completely out of my sight and out of my mind. But ootionally, when people folks think about bear attacks, they're thinking about this situation. So cub, yeah it is. It's definitely you know, the worst Mama MoMA Baron and cubs, like that's what you don't want to mess with. And it's that's that's the most precarious when you're getting around that type of situation and say, Okay, this isn't just a bear like with some fish and like you know, it's like you've gotta be more cautious and definitely make it aware that you don't want anything to do with them. How long do you think the the attack lasted? No idea like only seconds, Like I would say, probably still under a minute. Um for sure that the whole ordeal is probably still only like a minute. And that's that's hard to say too. It's a totally different world. Um. In plenty of kind of flow type states. In my life, we've been under a lot of stress and uh, and I don't know. People always ask me too, is like did you pass out? Might not? I didn't pass out, And I think the adrenaline took over in a lot of ways that I wasn't in a lot of pain initially either. A lot of it was just like a really really heightened sense of what was going on. It wasn't the sense where I was like, Okay, I didn't know what was gonna you know what I was doing or anything. I just knew that my best situation for survival was just being extremely keen on everything going on, and like, even as the bites are happy, I'm kind of thinking to myself like, Okay, I know what those wounds could be, like the worst case scenario, like what it is, Like, Okay, here that's what I'm gonna have to do afterwards the treaty. You're thinking practically, yeah, I wasn't thinking. I'm like, oh, this is it, this is the end that you weren't thinking about your friends, your family, Like yeah, it really wasn't. I was just thinking, like this situation as it is just really really in the moment, and as everything was going on so naturally. Again, as soon as that the other guy that had the pistol like ran by me. That's initially it was my first thought was like, okay, the the you know, the battles over, it's it's it's one, it's done, it's taken care of. Now it's like, okay, we gotta we gotta treat this. Um everything that's going on with me, and I knew the other guys had the same process, like they're figuring everything out, and um, did you you know, during during the attack, do you remember any distinctive sounds or smells or things that that paying your memory back to that. I certainly remember the growling and everything the bear was making. Um, that's unquestionable. Um. Fortunately, there was no like gnarly bone breaks training that I had to endure or hear, or crunching or anything like that. It was just her and I remember kind of the snorts and the breathing and the smells. No, I you know, I know that sounds kind of funny because I know smells are some of the biggest It's it's the number one cent that recalls memory. And no, I don't really have a lot of smells, probably because there wasn't a whole lot besides moisture in the air, you know for me to smell um, given the conditions and the winds, and probably the same reason why she didn't smell me either. And that's all I can think of. But yeah, I hadn't really thought about the smells too much. But but they heard the impact of her teeth and yeah, no, it certainly felt it and um and and new. But it was, you know, definitely kind of surreal and it's it's weird because whenever I think back upon it, too, is kind of different visions of the same thing. Not necessarily PTSD or anything, but I definitely, uh think back on it and different points of view of being in the first person and also in third person just like experienced the same thing. So it's kind of unique, but um yeah, quite quite the experience there. The the treatment portion in itself was, um pretty funny too. One of the um so the other two after everything happening, you know, they finished, Yes, yes, return to the timeline. I definitely had to get to it because it is kind of funny. And I got a really good bunch of group group of guys with me, and one of them has some pretty good medical experience he's had in his past, and um, he came over and everybody's kind of getting their ducts in a row, so to speak, and delegating stuff out and uh, guys are reloading because they're also we're also thinking, Hey, the cub or multiple cubs could still be around, Like, doesn't mean they can't come back, Like cub can mess you up just as well as you know, MoMA bear could, especially when it might be you know, ticked off them protective of mom embarrass The guys were, you know, very weary of that as well, but fortunately never never saw the cub and uh, they immediately just start breaking out the UM SATH phone. Dorman reaches and getting on those and UH Dorman reached, they activated the S O S beacon was on it, and UM, guys are getting on the SAT phone making phone calls. So as this was happening, you know, as I said, I'm kicking off my clothing, it was a kid just like unzipping stuff and then trying to get stuff out. And I had my AID kit and I'm telling them where that is, and and they were using their own aid kits as well. And the guy that was working on me, he's, you know, starts to get his shears out and he's cutting all the clothing off on me and uh and trying to get out the wounds. And immediately when he came up to me, I told him like, hey, I need to trying to get on my right leg. Um, just practice that we've done before, because I knew that the leg took the worst and I was nervous about any type of like heavy artery damage it could be. And UM, certainly where the wounds were Fortunately that wasn't the case, but it still could have been under the circumstances, especially couldn't move my legs. So was there a lot of blood? I mean there was significant, but really there wasn't um certainly not enough to put me in the shock or anything. Just you know a fair bit of blood just from you know, the trauma. But but of course I'm like wearing you know, uh ones that of pants and then rain pants and then gators and then boots, so everything is kind covering everything so you can't really see these sides. Just a bunch of puncture wounds everywhere, like holes in the clothing. So once he starts cutting everything off, he's kind of sees him rolls me over and he's like, okay, we can take the turniquet off because like it was good. We're just gonna pack this. The blood is not that bad. And uh, I was like, and the only thing going through my head is because I've had some training with tourniquets and stuff before, Like, Okay, we're gonna go real slow because I don't I want to lose my leg because it's happened before where guys have taken tourniquets off too fast and that rush of blood back into the appendage. Well, just that's how you lose one. So a little nervous on that point. But we're kind of we're going through and he's looking at the wounds like, Okay, they're not that bad, and I'm trying to point out other wounds. But I knew that the leg was the worst. But as soon as you kind of get through it, I'm like, hey, I'm like, but I need you to I need you to look at my taint. I'm like, I'm like, I know because I remember that. And I was like, ok yeah, no, no, I was laughing. I was just saying I'm telling you, like I'll have to show you pictures afterwards. But I was going through the moment of it and I'm like, okay, no, homo here, but I really needs you to check my taint and he's like, okay. It's like, you know, you know, un does it pulls up my you know, underwear, but it's kind of underneath and looks and he's like, no, you're good, but my okay, but I knew something was wrong, like it doesn't feel right, and he you know, kind of goes back, uh, you know, through looking, you know, cutting off other pieces of clothing and uh, I might no, man, like something's not right. I needs you to I need to really. So he cuts off the pants, like to my underwear at least this point, and like lift up the underwear and even before you can see the underwear or just a whole in it with just blood everywhere, and like, damn it. So it lifts it up and like yep, I'm like just looking down like just as you know, looking underneath minder where I'm like, yep, there it is. There's my testicle hanging out like great, and uh you know he sees it. Two It's like okay, and uh you know, I just reached down like I gotta put that back in, pretending like that that happened dude. And uh so then of course that's all that was on the mine. I'm my gosh, damn it. I'm like, you gotta be shipping me. And I'm also like still wear. I'm like, okay, I know my arm in my back is kind of messed up. I'm like, okay, here's one here, and I'm like I tell him he cuts it off. He's like, yeah, okay, I see it, and you know, they're packing those wounds as well, and but it's still in my min. I'm like, hey, does anybody have any like a sock or something I can sub down there like top out again. I was still attached though. Oh it was you know, like little nunchucks, you know, hanging out. Baby's still down. There's still good. But so you felt like it's attached. Yeah, It's like it's gotta be still good. And there's just been like a you know, like the bubble is burst. Yeah, And I'm like, man, I know guys have like bisectovies and stuff, but like it doesn't come out. They just like reached in there and you know, make a little snip snip and it's good. You know, cut the little whatever it is down there, vas difference whatever it is. And uh, I'm like, oh man, you gotta be kidding me. And so of course it was on my mind. I'm like nervous about it coming back out, and so I'm like I was asking that he didn't get it like a sock. I I just didn't wanted to pop out like what I'm getting moved around and stuff. I'm like, gosh, damn it, bandana or yeah, exactly something. It's like yeah, it's like it's it's in the underwear, like it's good, like not gonna focus on it, but of course I'm focused on it. And uh, the jokes just start coming out immediately, like guys like, don't worry about him, man, you need one, like you still have kids, like really like lighthearted guys. And I'm just laughing. Honestly, I was in really good spirits to the whole thing, like he wasn't gonna die. I knew nothing bad was gonna happen. I'm laughing too, and we're cracking jokes and really, you know, barely made it out. You know, it's made bare jokes as you can make immediately, and it just started sation hairy situation, and uh it was great. But I know they found some like little scary strip type things and put that on there. And of course, you know, if you have any type of organs are about, you're never supposed to put him back in. So that was also kind of a thing like no, I'm gonna that's okay, I'll put him back in, Like I don't want that thing just hanging around willy nilly, I'm putting that back. It's going in against the medical advice. I'm putting it back in Alright, there's there's no just yeah, I hope. I was like, I never want anybody to experience that because that's not a fun feeling just seeing it, like hanging out as a podcast host speechless, right, yeah, continue, I have nothing to add to the conversation. There's nothing I can say, so, uh is at this point I'm kind of patched up and the guys are getting out there, you know, puff Jacketson's leading Jacketson trying to cover me back up because I'm essentially kind of naked on one half of my body and giving the conditions, it was pretty brutal, and I gotta say with the whole experience, that was certainly the worst part was just in during the cold. And I'm certainly no stranger to cold living up there, being from Maine before that and doing a lot of type of outdoor training UM and having experiences I know, the cold, but that one I was just Jackhamer. It was it was hard going UM waiting on the coach guard which we had gotten in contact with UM via the satphone, So how quickly, how quickly to the wounds are dressed as well as they could the test goles back in its place. Everything is is you guys feel like stable at this point? How quickly did that happen until you were making those calls and expecting the rescue. So um, we were on the bird. We had no idea what to expect with them as time wise and how soon that they would get there. Um getting spun up. It's it's not a long flight like it's only like I want to say, minutes for them to fly um from the base to a to a fog neck. As we talked about before. It's a scary thing just because the weather you don't know, it changed so quickly exactly, and there the cloud cover had kind of lifted. It wasn't as low as it had been earlier in the day, so that was certainly a blessing, but it still wasn't great conditions by any means either, And of course they still had to find us. But we were walking them on. Guys were joining on the spot with grid coordinates, UM, passing them like Latin long whenever they needed to in and got them to cordings and walked him on there. But I did want to touch out on on one piece because you mentioned earlier and that was a learning point for us. Is the dorm in reach, so the in reach SUS button reactivated it nobody is what like the dolrum in reach is a it's a GPS slash, you know, GPS communicator that you can text on. I use it to text my wife still staying good graces when I'm on. And on the side of it, there's an s OS button. You can peel back this this plastic you know, rubber covering and push this SS button that's supposed to send a signal out a beacon and um, something happened bad, come get me exactly. That's it. And you know, we use it for the primary reason just like you said, texting is one of the biggest things. When we're off there, we can't text any other means and we're not gonna waste minutes in time on the SAT phone. So it's been great for that. However, we never really knew what the SUS going to do, you know, like most of the around for somebody comes save me, know, save our souls. You know, that's literally what it is. And we activated unfortunately had the SAT or the SAT phone with us, but when we activated it, come to find out afterwards, the State troopers got it first. Um talked to State trooper when I was in the hospital and he's like, yeah, it's like they got the call first, but by the time they got the call didn't really know what it was. They just knew was some sort of emergency beacon no idea this situation. I think it gives him uh GPS coordinate and it just tells him something bad has happened. That's pretty much it. And probably the user name, I think whatever his information is it because it wasn't my my dorm and she's somebody else's mind was just bright exactly. And so that went out and by the time they had any inclination of what was going on what it was, coast guards already spent up on our way. So saw like they were really you know, quick to react like that they were because we had him on the SAT without a phone. Then it would have been like, okay, they would have had to call the coast guard. The coast guard would have had no idea what was going on. They would have had reached out on the dolorum, you know, And and I don't know if that's by a text how that would go down or or what, but it would have been a little bit different, maybe even longer. And uh so as this was going down, Um, I'm just knna, you know, sitting there waiting at this point, there's nothing else to do. The guys that weren't on the comms piece, we're just kind of cutting branches because we knew, you know, getting a burden, they're gonna come lift me out. And uh so they're just kind of cutting down branches in the area, trying to clear you know, pave away couldn't really move. Um I think, you know, given different circumstances, I didn't have another bunch of guys around me, and if I was, so, it would have been just a hoilacious straight like who knows would have what or could have happened, you know, But fortunately that was not the case. The other two guys and other two guys are hunting parties still don't know this is going on, or you know, they were with us. The other two that were separate, they heard all the commotion, they came up. Yeah it was it was that guy or one of the two that actually he came up and he was one of treating my wounds all together. Yeah, everybody's everybody pitched in and it was the other guy from the other party that he uh, um was on the sat phone and he was doing that piece. So kind of everybody's you know, finding a job doing something at this point, like I said, really really text but couldn't went down any every any better. What's far But he's doing, you know, a job or looking for something to do, and uh yeah, at that point in time, it was just sit and wait and they're talking to him on the bird and bird comes in and um, you know, hoist the guy down first. And he kind of comes and assesses me and ask me questions and I'm completely coherent, answering them good spirits, YadA, YadA YadA, checking everything over. They come up with a plan of action to get the litter down and then put me on the litter and then uh and hoist me up. Um. The whole process definitely took longer than I would have liked. I think it U did it? Ever, I don't I know. The incident happened right around one ten. I think it's in The attack happened, and I didn't have a chance to check my watch and everything. The hospital they took it all off, but it was like roughly from what I heard about two and a half hours later that I was actually at the hospital. So blessing going out to the coast guards. Still save my ass but that definitely if it was a fatal wound, like you know, there's no question there's been a fatal wounded. The well out of the golden hour like one hour period, we're like, okay, you know my life might have been safe. So still save my ass. Um wasn't too happy about their their hoist camera that they have so on there, Uh they're they're helicopter they have they have a hoist camera like going right down the cable like where it's lefting me up and immediately immediately as soon as it went down, like they had that camera footage of hoisting me up, you know, off the ground and posted on Facebook like social media. So I love the coach guys still saying my ask that they immediately posted that so for what a reason, I don't know, for their own reason, like hey, you know, save the hiker you know hunter or whatever you know, uh from from and again like I give it to him percent. It's like, hey, you know I would absolutely give them you know, the save the rescue and good for them, but I was kind of like, man, to post it immediately, it made me and other guys more upset because I had other guys you know that I know, and they were out in the field and or you know, outside of of work, and they found out through Facebook before they found out from guys like phone calls like hey, you know, uh, guy just got mauled, you know whatever else, like through any anything else. And uh, fortunately my my folks didn't find out that way. You know, I called and when I got to the the hospital. But I'm kind of like, that's that's pretty much. That's pretty messed up to do it, you know, so so soon. And I'm like, yeah, it didn't make me happy, and I do want to give him the rescue everything, but I was like, man, that's pretty unprofessional. As far as I would agree with that wholeheartedly, it's like marketing their bill of the Yeah, and again I'm not against them doing they do a lot of things. They're like they are the biggest base you know, is in Kodiak for the coach guard, and rightfully so, they save a lot a lot of I know, like you're saying that, yeah, all props for the life saving efforts. But come on, ye, streamline, come on streamline that social process. Ye. But yeah, it's was there moments in the waiting because you know, we talked about like sounds and smells of the attack, right, but are there are moments in the waiting to be rescued? Um in air quotes? I guess where things started to settle in your mind as to what happened or was it still a tactical you know, I gotta get out of here. I need to stay alive. I need to get you know what. You you obviously weren't given any duties. You had to you know, lay there or be warm and be stable. That's pretty much it. So during that time, do you remember your mind drifting to any particular things other than you know, I was pretty focused in a moment still, Um No, I never. I don't know. I'm a very determined, focused kind of individual, and guys that know me know the same thing that I definitely don't let anybody tell me how things are gonna go or how I'm gonna live my life, or how things is gonna turn out or odds or anything like that really kind of drives me and forces me to work even harder so the only thoughts going through my mind is like, okay, cool, well, I wonder how long this is gonna take before him back to doing the same old things I'm gonna be doing. Like nothing in my mind was like, oh I'm limp biscuit now. Besides like the jokes of like, hm, I wonder if I can have kids, but I'm single, Like I don't have a girlfriend, you know, no wife, no kids, anybody else. It's like it's like, you know what, if I'm gonna approved this, I'm gonna prove it. You know, however many years down the road, like if that's even gonna happen. So uh yeah, the only thing going through my mind is like, all right, I wonder how long it's gonna take me out of the picture, you know. Just yeah, I'm just kind of like, okay, what's next. Like I survived like none whatsoever, and I was just I was really really proud, I guess of the guys that were with me and thankful. It was like, hey, it's like kind of got me thinking, and um, you know, I know we briefly touched on her earlier, uh when we talked about like guns and like everybody having side arms and uh uh when certain guys like decided like, okay, we're only going after the one elk, not everybody's gonna get shoot, and some guys decided like, okay, just leave the rifles behind. Because we all knew when we made our planet, like we already had a base camp set up, that this hunt was going to be like Okay, we know where there are, this is gonna be super light, just bringing the absolute minimum so we can carry it the most amount of meat like all in the goes that we can and with the amount of guys, like we figured five guys, we can definitely haul a whole thing out in one go. Like everybody takes like a quarter and then you know whatever organ meats and like backstraps and turnalains and all that kind of stuff and then the uh, the rack. But we're like, yeah, we can do this in one go, so everybody's light lightening the load and um definitely kind of eye opening, especially even me, Like I said, I was really excited about having the six five creem more. But now that I think about Mike, Okay, well, I'm not so much of a you know, an asset. If there is a bear in the area or something like that that would have happened. And all of us have talked in the past, you know what we're doing with the bear charges, and a lot of us spend a lot of time with the range, a lot of time shooting, and um, very savvy, I would say, but all of us kind of know too. Is like, especially in this situation, just as mine, no time to take a shot, Like if you have a pistol or anything like, maybe you get a couple of shots off. You never know, But we always say that, like that that pistol or that rightfley you have on you, it's not for you, it's for the other guy. Like you're always carrying it. So if somebody else is the one that gets attacked, you're Johnny on the spot to go and and take that thing down immediately. So, yes, you're there to defend yourself, but the probability is less that you're gonna be able to do that. It's in defense of you know, somebody else. So um, huge proponent of that and thinking that way, But it also got me thinking like, okay, well, yeah, maybe I shouldn't be carrying that really really light rifle because of you know said cases. And so I think that's kind of changed, um, some of our standards, you know, for what we're gonna do later on. And and for me, I think one of the big lessons after as I said, with the cold, were like, Okay, as much as we spend time in survival and we're tough bunch of guys and very versed in the area, is like from now on, carrying those little space blankets, throwing in the first aid get like along with everything, ounce and like yeah, okay, a little bit like another extra ounce or something and ounces to equal pounds. But it's like that would would have been a night and day difference for you know, kind of keeping me from just jackhammering. Yeah, And I think that's you know, things like this, like you know, this isn't for me, hearing this story from you is not entertaining. Of course, I'm you know, like I can barely struggle even to know what to say to you hearing that. But but I think for folks listening these that that type of insight is what's valuable here, is to hear your story and to everybody got holes in their game, and in this case, those holes can lead to death or life. And your case, had you not had tourniquets. Had you not had a sat phone, you know, had you not add four other buddies with you, things could could win a lot different, totally different. Yeah, the lessons are always you know, learning blood and he saw the hard ones. People are stubborn, don't want to change. It's like until something serious happens, that's when it kind of such things in perspective and you forge out there listening to this and you're hunting in bear country. I mean, these are things that you need to you know, you need to think about. You need to think very hard about how you prepare and in what holes are in your game, and if something should happen, what the contingencies are, because this is I mean, this is this is exactly what everyone figures absolutely well. Just you know, when you ask me to talk about it, I've got no qualms telling the story. I love telling the stories other people. I've said, it's just practiced for the grandkids, you know, somedays you know, really good to tell all about it. And but I did think about them, like, okay, it is good perspective and by no means any type of expert on the matter now, just because you know I went through this experience, But I think it does kind of open some eyes and doors to what you can tell people because so often it's like you just hear people talk, you know, it's like, oh, what do you do this type of experience, but really don't have any experiences. You know, their experiences ended, you know, with a bluff charge that they had once and you use what you got. And yes, there's a lot of common sense that comes into as as a factor for what you're gonna do out there. But uh, you know, definitely being through the process, I know it won't always go down the same never go down exactly that way ever again you know somebody else, but um, it is kind of lesson you know, people that I work with and talk to and see now it's like okay, now I can kind of touch on those things and know what's gonna work and probably Okay, this isn't the smart thing to be. Yeah, solo hunting and bear country exactly. There is a risk, man, It's a hard risk for sure. What the story that always comes up and I laugh about all the time is, uh, Leonardo Dicapri and the Revenant. Everyone brings out up all the time. So I've got a great little picture with the meme on it says Leo can suck it as he's getting attacked by the bear, and uh, I was. I was aware of the hue Glass story well before the movie, before the event, and uh and knew it well. And that guy's for sure badass. And the movie didn't quite do adjice on how it really went down. You know, um no, and it doesn't in the real story. You know, he didn't he didn't kill it or anything. They finished off like with twenty plus dudies or whatever, just you know, unloading on it with with guns and he got some knife strikes in. But you can see how beat up he gotten. That's a lot of the things that we're going through. My mind is like as badass as the story could have been. And probably everybody wants to hear me about me like you know, pulling out my knife and you know, stabbing the bear and like fighting it off. I'm like, this is a five pound animal, seven foot bear that it's just born bread and knows how to just crush and kill and do everything auntsen. It's like, yeah, it would be a great strug, but that's not that's not reality. That's the movies for you, you know. And and if I was by myself shore like that, we're probably would have changed everything and what I had to do. And and who knows if it would have left left me alone or if I would have had to fight it, and if I had to fight it. Man be hard to think about, like who certainly in this situation, it's not man versus bear because there's nothing. It's you're not facing off with this bear. And and and for point of fact, you know you guys killed this bear and you were telling me afterwards, this is seven and a half foot giant, giant giant bear ya um. And the weight, the the impact of of that animal, it's not something that you can fight back. No, I just can't, not at all. And the of course I'm fascinating the subject wasn't even before being around bears all the time. But you see the mallings and the stories and and most people don't survive the mallings. And they do happen, um if they're like actually mauled and not just like you know shot, um when it happens, they're just if they got anything in the front of you, like people's just face faces are never the same again, like they ripping out organs everything else, and and I knew that. And again, like I said, there's no bravado here, Like my bravado was thinking about like if I die, I'm no good to anybody. It's like, and then everybody else is gonna be the force to deal with that. It's like, I know, it's like I don't need to fight back here. I've got four other guys that are ready to like there'll be Johnny us. But that's a lot of like I said, a lot of it was just trust and the guys that were with me that I'm like, Okay, all you do here is last, Like how am I going to last through this? To be able to give those guys enough kind of awareness and know what's going on and be able to get to me in time to do this? Like how can I you know, opens up the best? Like yeah, of course it's very limited in what I could do, but I you know, yelling Albert, hey, at least let somebody know or like not that they heard it. They just figured it out through everything else, all the other commotion is going on. But uh, and then protecting myself because it's it's literally all that I could do. There is you know, there's no like, oh, I'm gonna block this bear, know, do this? And I've got a great photo that somebody sent me and it's Um actually said just a cold too, and he's like, guess I've got that and I've seen that one and it's bare jiu jitsu and it's got all these different pictures of like doing these movies bears. But it's like one through eight and it's like, you know, you know, bear naked joke, you know, like all that's thrown in there, and then the very real last one is like, realize that you messed up at you know, number two and you died. It's like you're not gonna fly thing. Yeah, he's not gonna happen. How do you I mean, how do you feel now as we sit here? Sometime has passed. Um, I can know the answer to this, but I asked it anyway. How do you feel about that bear? How do you feel about that soal like she's dead, you're alive and you guys got in a tussle. Yeah, Um, how do you how do you feel emotionally about what happened like that bear and and her death and the experience? Sure? Sure so Um, beaten before I get to the all, I tap on this too, because this probably kind of helps I think a little bit. But so as we found out after it was taking a fishing game and everything, which is by law actually but the initial estimate, but she was like nineteen years old, and and later on the guy asked me, he's like thought maybe four. They only lived to like five. So this is a very old like angry hags out and you mentioned the grayish color, and so I've never seen a bear that all Like every bear that I've seen is usually the young uns because they're the ones that are more ignorant for lack of a better word, that's hanging around the town. Um just like old bucks. But um so, knowing that, you know, she probably didn't have a lot of time left anyway, and you know she's seen a lot and had a lot of of cubs before that. And the cubs, from what the guy said, we're older. They will hopefully be fine. But going through my mind, I I certainly don't um. I don't agree with the people that get all butt hurt and be like, oh the poor bear and like everything else, and Mike, that kind of gets annoying. It was like, you know, I just got bald. You know, like I don't feel bad for the bear at all. What I do feel bad for it's like, okay, yeah, the bear could have produced more bears and like and and made it for better hunters because, in all honesty, the opening season for bear was about to open up. Uh. Actually it happened on October six, and I I want to say, it was like that day actually bear sheason open. It was really it's right around that time. I can't quite remember off the top of my head, but it opens right up. So I was like, I was looking forward to actually going out bear hunting and doing the same thing. So she kind of took me away from that. But no, I definitely don't. I don't you know, feel bad about it or anything besides the fact that it's like, hey, it wasn't in the right time, like you know, it didn't have my tag or anything to get a bear. You know, it definitely was in defense and uh you know, it wasn't the bear that you're really seeking. And um, a lot of people don't like hunting, but as I say, with as many bears are on there, it's like it's good control of the bear population. And it's a huge thing. That's what I know you talked about a lot, but with the real meaning of hunting, especially with an animal, you don't you know, you're not gathering meat from um. But uh, yeah, it was unfortunate because I know that for her just as much survival in sync with me, just she's a more primal creature than I am. And you know, there's no communicating, that is communicating. And she was just like yeah, it's like, yeah, there's no there's no getting out of it. So I know this that there was the perfect storm and definitely unfortunate circumstances. But no, I definitely don't feel bad about it. You know, I'm still living, breathing human being and I'm still alive and and thank god. Yeah, I mean if you talk to your your buddy then took the shots and like, what's the as a group, you know, postmortem, what's like, what's the feeling? Yeah, And and no, I mean guys are all on the same page, like they're ecstatic about it. One just I'm alive. And it was very surreal for everybody. And in the moment, more so going through his mind was like, God, I hope he's alive. And uh, the guy who shot the bear first of the rifle, he was more nervous when I stopped talking as I said, I said, oh, I can't make any more noise, no more scream out or anything in pain or agony. I gotta keep my mouth shut. That's gonna get worse. And when he took the shot, it was like right after that too, and he was he was nervous. It's like he didn't know if I was still alive from the bear killing me or from him killing me from a shot. So that was running through his mind too, and of course it made it nervous. But I was fully aware, awake and like talking and everything else afterwards, and I think that was kind of a relief to him. And judgment call and even afterwards he we've had our discussions and I certainly owned my life, and uh, he said the same thing that he knows that but it done the same thing and been there for him, and um, that's absolutely the case. But I know the consensus in the group are still the same thing. But so many guys were just kind of surreal and and some of the guys hadn't really been through experiences like that for really stressful and kind of for them even it was kind of like they weren't getting attacked, but it was very like real all of a sudden and kind of like holy sh it, like this isn't this isn't you know, funning games anymore. This just turned really really real? Is real? Yeah? I think that's you know, all hunters, all people that spend time in wild places, like these things happen, you fall, you get attacked like they happened and frequently, hopefully for most of us, but but their realities. And that's why people love to read books about um animal attacks. They love to read, you know, survival stories. And I'm sure we'll love to listen to your story here because you know, like I would say, you beat the odds. I would say, the odds kind of screwge you when you walked up on a bear, but after, during and after the attack, you beat the odds. I mean, there's so many ways it could have turned out um with your death, but it didn't. Absolutely. I mean even now, it's just making full recovery. And as you can see him, I'm walking around your healing and you be signs some you know, mier things in a much tighter Nutsack now you know, yeah, surgeons of me, they say, you know, some guys pay for this, right, I guess they get older and things start sigging, They're like, some guys pay for this year. It's like you're gonna be getting good to go. Uh so that'll be the advertisement for the people to listen to this. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's let's I mean, you know, we're when you came in and we're talking, um, you're saying, I still have open wounds. You know, two months later, ish a month and a half, two months later and you still have open wounds. Your recovery is obviously still ongoing. I mean there's probably been a lot of rehab, a lot of pain. You know. UM, just take you know, briefly, take everyone through what that feels like. Because I feel like you have the adrenaline, you've got your determination to survive UM and you always hear that about life threatening situations. But then when you're in a hospital bed or you know, you're waking up every morning and pain, I mean I feel like that's where the suffering, you know, it really kicks in and where you know where the next the next level of of you know, difficulties you have to overcome begins when you've got to get up out of the bed and like you said, get back to your normal life. Yeah. So by the time I got the hospital, you know, it was going to uh pretty much immediately go into the operating room. They were asking a lot of questions wanted to really concern with more like food and water because before operating, it's gonna make sure I'm pretty much like you aim of all that kind of stuff. But uh, um uh sorry, And there's another one I get to hit on on the ride over. It just kind of cracked me up. But I talked about being cold before and this just made me think of it again. But um, in the bird the helicopter, they were trying to you know, put uh you know, I v S and me like get some needles in me at first, and just couldn't do it. Just so cold, like we won't be able to draw anything. Even when I got to the hospital, like I couldn't draw anything. The lady was there and she's like, you just have a really tough time. Finally eventually got one in my hand that she could get some blood flowd was just so cold though, and made it happen, But it was just kind of one of those things. And I get to the hospital and they're just taking everything else off me and I found the guy to the point I'm like I need a warm blank, Like I love you guys, thanks for taking care of me. But I'm like I'm at the point where I'm like, okay, I am freezing my nuts off here and I seriously need a blank or something like cover me back up. I'm like I'm really really cold. And so finally that definitely toned things down and made stuff better, and I was kind of more of a happy place then. But I was like, yeah, cold does a lot of things to to people. And uh, I was kind of had one of those snappy crack moments where I'm just like, Okay, I'm cold. I'm like, stop taking clothes off, need more calls on me? And I feel like there's like, yeah, like the frustration level has got to be because you're you at that point. Well really, as the attack begins, you have no control really at that point, hands and and no, And I wasn't. I wasn't trying to be stubborn into the I'm like okay, let people take care of me. I wasn't being like one of those guys and um, and it was good, and I did getting uh into the room, just kind of waiting and finally made a phone call to my folks and let them know everything was good. You know, guy brought it in a phone for me, and so things are good. Let them know, and they're all concerned. But even after the operating room and I kind of got through a lot of the medical testing and guys asking questions and fixing me up, I'm very much a proponent of just the kind of positive attitude and healing and and uh, just keeping the smile going. And I whenever you in those situations, all you can do. And I hate negativity. Like the last thing, I really really hate pity, and I don't, you know, for the same reason, like I don't take pity on really anybody else either. It's and I don't I don't think people need that. I think you can. I'm probably less empathetic than most people either. It's you know, probably something I should work on. But at the same time, like even for myself, like I don't want that, like anybody who's gonna like come in there, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like no, like fun that It's like if you're gonna be like have biddy to be like a soft story of me to get the hell out like I don't neither, I don't want it, like I'm alive. I got shipped to do so. And that was kind of my my thought process even in the days in the hospital. It's like, yeah, I certainly wasn't feeling good and had me on a liquid diet, you know, starting out that sucked um because especially I was already hungry, you know, being in in the field, like for the first few days anyway, as you well know, like you do a lot of that hiking into that truf drain, you get hungry and like hadn't really drank anything, hadn't really eat any anything, and quite some time, and I was definitely hungry and like just drinking on bone broth and water for for a time or two, is uh not my cup of tea. And so that took some time. But my one of the biggest driving motivators, given the circumstances of what was going when I was going going through is I talked to you about this before, but I had this puppy and hadn't got it yet. But I had made plans to get this puppy that I finally, you know, kind of cave down. I was like I saw a litter up north and I really wanted it, and uh I bought it, made the arrangements. I'm like, okay, great, Like this puppy is gonna get shipped on Monday. Well this incident happened on Friday, and like okay, making sure everything's in a row, and uh again things going through my mind. Was just thinking on this and like okay, I gotta to get this puppy, like I don't care if Friday and like what they're saying, like hollong when I keep me in my I have this puppy coming in. I had to have to be there. I don't want somebody else to do it, like the first kind of contact and like I want to be her for it. So definitely my driving motivator. But the other thing on that story is again kind of going back to the whole you know self pity thing um the lady who had the breed, the litter um who gave me the puppy, like you know, shipped me the puppy. As this all is happening, I told her what had happened, what was going on that things were still gonna be you know, all right, I still wanted the puppy. We'll come to find out her husband, Um was just climbing the ladder. I don't know if he was. I think he was working on a roof with his brother or something like that and fell and you know one of the biggest you know, cause of accidents in the US, always like falls and stuff. And sure enough, like he fell off the roof or fell off the ladder and hit his head like internal hemorrhaging and like emergency er and didn't know if he's gonna make it. Like all this like terrible things, and I'm like I'm going through this and I'm like, yeah, of course. I'm just saying to myself, like there's always somebody else where that's got it worse, that's like so much worse than you are. Like the last thing that you need is just like this will be like oh, like pour me, like why me? You know, like all this is like no, just life happens. Ship happens. You know, you play with the bully, You're gonna get the horns, my father, you do anything long enough, and like something's going to happen along those lines and again, like looking back is why I don't regret anything when doing anything different. It's just an experience. And unfortunately I'm still here. God's gonna plan for me like that. I'm gonna keep going and doing something because I'm still here kicking. Yeah, So like it didn't really like it just enhance your perspective. It didn't like change, It didn't at all, Like no negativity towards it whatsoever, doing downfall that I'm experienced. He right now is not be able to get on the horse soon enough to go back out hunting because all the seasons are like ending. You want to get back. I have no time, and my plan is to go right back out and go skiing and ice climb, like as soon as after the holidays ends. That's been my my next goal. Because I did bring my my puppy here with me, and I did get out of the hospital on Monday to go get them, despite them kind of wanting me, you know, to stay a little longer. But yeah, it's been kind of a crawl walk run starting out. Couldn't I didn't even leave the hospital bed for the first couple of days. Really couldn't. And uh, I don't know if there's a second or third day. I eventually just got up to like stand up. Definitely not fun amount of pain. The blood finally just rushed back into the leg again. The leg was certainly the worst part. And who yeah, that was yeah, that was that was a little pain. And uh, they like no surgeries other than just something like no major surgery. Right, yeah, I just see me back up and with with animal wounds like that, we had talked on it. But for the everybody else listening, you never have an animal winning train dogs and had animal bites and stuff before. And when you go through that, you're trying to keep the wound open for risky and infection and for it to heal inside out. You know, want some you know cave hole inside of you just like festering. So they put some stitches on some of the bigger wounds just to close them up a little bit because they were so big, and uh, the after I don't know, like a couple of weeks or so, they cut them off and like let them go back to healing open and uh, and that's kind of what I'm going through now. But yeah, there was eight major punctures on my leg. H two on my arms, some superficial like scratches, bite marks wherever they were on my back, and then down lower on the leg they were like not like full punctures, just kind of like still like superficial, but deep enough to like warrants some bandages. Um, I think just the clothing alone, probably on the lower leg was like the combination of like one pair of like soft shell pants, some rain pants, uh gators, and boots. Yeah, like just enough that it like she squeezed the hell out of it, because I've still got nerve damage where I can't feel half of my my foot and leg well not really leg but lower like heal and achilles, uh calf, that kind of area, but did enough to like mess with an her of a little bit, not like completely severed or anything, but yeah, she she did some damage. Didn't take much of that that type of beast. Well, I mean, like you said that she still has a little bit to rip through, like she could still rip and tear at the clothes without really ripping impairing at you. And then I'm sure that stone glacier pack you know. For I know those guys over there pretty well, they're all good folks and they make a nice pack. But I'm sure that impact saved you a lot, big, big time. And again that went through my mind a lot. And she was a little focus on the legs at first, I think, which I don't know good or bad. Maybe that's because what you know, like you're moving, maybe kicking. Well, it was definitely was just the first thing that came to her. And the same with my experiences with dogs and like like protective, they're gonna go for the first thing, whatever it is is like closest out there. To them, it's just convenience. That's what they're gonna bite first. And for her it was just that was the leg that was there. Again, I dove kind of downhill, so she was coming behind me at this point rather than like a head on charge, and she just grabbed that for that first leg and that she she picked me up and just threw me. Um so constantly going for the closest thing there and um, but the thing with the backpack, it did kind of get me thinking. And I know bears are very very smart creatures and and um just very keen on everything. And I don't think eventually she obviously did you know, scratched me in the back and get to the to my arm and and the stone glacier back didn't really take much damage. And it got me thinking about it too, And I had to think that she probably knows that feeling, like she knew when she put her paws on me and her teeth in me, that like she probably knew what flash kind of like feels like, tastes like, all that kind of stuff. That like she didn't want anything to do it and that's all she was trying to do is just kind of brush that out of the side. So again it was like all linked together and nothing actually happened to the back, which was awesome, But um, if I didn't have that there, yeah, I mean fortunately, like just the flat back itself doesn't really have features to really you know, grab ahold of it. Who knows, maybe she wouldn't have either she could have gotten like side or something else. Um yeah, and I and and that's gone through my mind. But I had to think, I'm like, yeah, you know what, like they probably knows exactly what flesh and everything like feels like, tastes like. And that's where she was going for. She was just moving that ship right out of the way. Yeah, I mean it's hard you can't put your you can't put your mind to what he's going through a bear's mind, and that such what she can't I mean, it's impossible, and it's such. It was instinctual for you, instinctual for her. Like the whole interaction seemed to be just this like man versus nature and that's ye. You you know, at this this particular time, you ended up ended up bumping heads and and um, you came out on the better end. But for sure, it's such a eyes wonder about that, Like if that were ever to happened to me, how it would change me? Like you're way tougher than I am. Like you seem like you have a way better perspective, you have a way better perspective on on these types of things. But I've heard from you know, jhannest tell Us and even a little bit from Steven Ella media crew they weren't even attacked there. They were charged and all came away, you know, fairly unscathed. That it did change a little bit about how they felt about one in the wilderness. Like they have you know, they have kids, they have wives, like they you know, they feel like you know, everybody has loved ones family and friends that care about them like it. I think it did change them a little bit as far as how they think about it. Are they not going to go They're going, um, just like you are. But you know, I think it probably had to change something for you for sure. I don't know. Everybody's got their own ways of going through life and living and doing their own thing. But it life is all about experiences. And you always hear about people talking to about being in the moment and all that, but I do agree with it. And one they always named about it like you're never the same person as you were yesterday. Yeah, I constantly like a lot of people just don't have those really huge moments I opening experience that they think that they do, and like they're just those munday tash and everything. But like no matter what, like you're getting lessons learning experiences every day, Like they're just not as big as as some of the other ones. And um, mine was obviously very big, and you can take away from that. But uh, ironically, um, I was getting some tattoos done and I just had an audible book that I was listening to, the Rise of Superman and it's all about like the state of flow. And I kind of talked about the flow before that, and I've read other books spot on and and uh looked into the topic and and extremely extremely interesting um for people that like look into the subject or not, but um, always seeking out those moments where like you learn the most because to bump into flow like takes like some people have like you know, serious like I don't know meditation that they want to do. It takes like hours and hours and hours and hours. But then you hear about these uh very ad ent you're seeking individuals like doing extreme skydiving and free diving and all these other adventure type sports and that's where they fine and seek flow and big wave riders and mountain bikers and all those things. And I love all those things as well. And a lot of people think of them as adrenaline junkies and it's definitely not the same whatsoever because they didn't have any adrenaline during the incident. But I also know that the state of flow is definitely definitely going there. Um Yeah, it seems like that that that's probably my read on it is that's impact you as much as anything, and hearing you describe it is having that state of flow I mean, you may achieve it while climbing, you may achieve it while surfing, but you know, while there's some inherent danger there, um, there's some inherent joy there as well what you're doing. Um. But in this in this case, you achieve that state of flow just in a different mental environment where you knew there wasn't any good outcome of what was going to happen, and then when it was happening. So it seems to me like that, you know, having that state of flow and knowing what that feels like and moments of extreme stresses is informed you in a lot of ways absolutely, Like that's that's really where I find that you you really learn the most um about yourself and and and other things in life, um, is being in those those moments where you just learned so much so quick. It's very very eye opening. That's why people always seek that, you know, it's not for that. It's not the adrenaline rush is like people say, yeah, there's definitely adrenaline drunkies. But that's where I find it's those individuals are much more short lived than than others that just eat that, because then they eventually end up just doing something stupid um and not well thought out versus other people that have to be they're just kind of pushed in those moments, um. And there's nothing wrong with like seeking other ways, with whether it is like a two and a half hour session of yoga or meditation or something and done that before too. But yeah, being in that in that moment was extraordinary eye opening. And I don't know I can come out positive from the experience because one everything went down textbook nothing really all that bad happened. And whether you believe in like a higher power wherever, um, you know, whether it's God just told me just hey, take take a chill pill, like slow down for a little bit, you know, like take some time. Yeah, exactly, like whatever it is, Like I don't know's you know, things happen for a reason. Is some people say, I don't know about that, but everything always works out in my suppos It's like yeah, it's like it's like maybe not the way that you planned or wanted to and like, you know, it always happens very very unexpectedly. But yeah, no, no, it's been a really really good experience. And you know, I'm sure there was fear, but like describe it, you know, the types of fear that you felt while you were there. I mean, there's fear for your life, there's feel for your you know, for your friends, there's there's all types of soul. It's funny. I've had that conversation before, people talked about it and this isn't like a form of bravado or like you know, manly is um when I when I say this, but I don't really think there was fear. And I think that was just experience that I've had before and having a clear head, because I think fear is very, very irrational. It's something that's concocted in your heads, um, like sharks in the water that you can't see, like that kind of dealing, like people to have a fear of that or fear of heights. And I'm sure there can be chemical imbalances with some people that like cause them to have irrational fears that, yeah, it takes a lot to get over. But when this is going down, I don't think it was fear as much as like a difference between fear and danger. And I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was a while ago that I heard Uli Steck talking about something similar. A while ago and if people aren't familiar with Steck, he did pass away, but he's very well known speed climber um, very well known for doing a lot of solo crazy stuff and eventually that did uh make him pass So you can think about them however you want. But he was talking about the different is between you know, danger and fear, and when you have fear, you're just it's just in your head, like there's no reasoning for it doesn't help you out, it doesn't do anything. But understanding that when there's dangers is very very real. And when that, when that initially happened, of course, everything going through you is very instinctiable when you have things that you do, and you know, the parasympic UH and sympathetic nervous system and fight or flight and freezing like all these other different things going on. And I know those things obviously happened, but as far as just going through my head, I don't think it was like, oh my god, I'm gonna die. It's like again, what am I gonna do? Like how do I control this situation? What control do I have? Do I have any control? You know? What are the things that I can control? And those were the things going through mind because I knew that fear in danger. But but yeah, I think it was just very um again, it's all a surreal experience, but just knowing that it's what you can and can't control and being in that situation to be like understanding is really is what it wasn't. It wasn't necessarily like oh my god fear like I'll stop what I'm you know, like I'm dead kind of deal. Yeah, I don't know me Like you just exerted some positivity into the and like, you know, it's not like you were like things are great. Yeah, well this is sprinkles, that's for sure, but like exerted some positive force into what was happening, like not like I can't believe I'm so stupid? Why did I hunt on a fogneck? Why am I getting mauled right now? More of just uh, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing I can do? What's the next thing that I can um express to my friends to help me get to the next to the point I have to get to live and be fine. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with to where we are today. But I guess we can close it out by saying, everything's fine. Everything's he's good. You look good, man, I mean everything looks fine to me. Heal and getting better. Everything downstairs going fine. Yeah, that's gonna be as far know, it's it's it's good. Uh, wounds are almost deal. I'm hoping on Tuesday will be like, okay, everything is close enough to the surface to take advantages off and let them do their things. Started physical therapy already and kind of got the range of motion back, you know, no more canes or walkers or anything. You know, I'm getting around and uh yeah, you should make it full recovery. Back to skiing, nice climbing, doing fun things. Hunting next season, Hunting next season. Well, I'm gonna look forward to those updates. But it's admirable the way that you approach this. Um. Like I said, this is this is everyone's worst nightmare in a lot of ways. UM, So I admire the way you approach it. I'm glad you're sitting here. Yeah, thanks many thanks. That's it. That's all another episode in the books Hunting Collective. Um. What I'll say about this story and Brad is that I was amazed by I was it was interested in every facet of it, and I'm very thankful that he uh shows us or was willing to tell that story on the air here with me the hunt Collective. I think it's one of the more useful stories and educational stories you can hear about how he survived, why he survived, and why it was the folks he chose to have with him that were um key to his survival. So thank you, thank you, thank you to Brad. Glad you're live, bro, and you're glad, you're feeling good. So get back to it, get back to ice climb and get back to ski and get back to hunting, get back to life. Appreciate you. What else? What else? Into the next thing? We you know, we um. We've got a lot of stuff at the meat Eator dot com store. Just check that all out. Christmas is coming gone, I believe, but there's still lots of reasons to buy for yourself and your friends and family. So go there. Check out hats, shirts, hoodies, yetie, tumblers, all the things with um uh the Hunting Collective the logo on them or some kind of awesome pro nuance anti bullshit. We've got some other things going up the Broadside ELK T shirt, which was a quote quote from Ryan Callahan on the podcast. A lot of awesome stuff there, man, So go check it out. And while you're there, click subscribe. When the the Meat Eater newsletter, we need you to subscribe. We loved, like millions of people to get our information every week in their inbox. Hopefully you can be one of them. But that's all I've got for this time. Thank you for everything, all of you. I appreciate you, and I'm happy this podcast is growing and and everyone is enjoying our efforts because we're trying our best. So right in tell us what we're doing, good or bad. We look to hear it all. And until next time, take her easy, all right,