00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey y'all, I'm Casey and and this is the Elk Hunting series from the Element podcast. If you want to get on ELK, it helps to hang with dudes that no elk and that ain't us. But luckily the dudes that no elk have cell phones and we call them up. So, whether you're a veteran of September or you're just cutting your eyvories and the Elk wood said, you're gonna hear something here that will help you get the full draw of this fall. If you find this podcast helpful, pop that subscribe button and go check out our Elk Hunting playlist on YouTube. Now let's rock and roll, Hey guys, real quick, do we get to this chat with Spencer? Him and I were actually talking after the interview, and he decided that he wanted to give the Element Faithful an opportunity to have it a little discount on some backcountry meals from off grid Food. So for the next month you can go use the code Element fifteen, that's Capital E Element fifteen, and you can go get you a fifteen percent discount on anything on the off a website. So let's get to chat alright, guys. To day the show we have got Spencer trip with Off Grid Food Company. Dude, what's happening in your neck of the woods man? Not much. We've actually got a little rain for once, which is not totally uncommon for northwest Washington. But it's been pretty nice and hot, so it's a good little change. What is hot, sir, Let's see here, not where I mean it was. It got nine five here the other day. Yeah, that's pretty warm. Um so you know, for being five miles south of Canada, that's pretty damn Yeah, it's it's pretty co yeah, for sure. So before we got on air, well we go, we're discussing your last name because it's uh, I mean, it's one of those names that you say it how it looks like you should say it, but some people get kind of weird. And I said that anybody ever said treat us, uh, you know, like Mexican souper whatever, and have you got something like that before? Uh? Like he was saying, yeah, for sure, we've gotten gotten at all. Uh. Yeah, I used to get tripe a lot in Texas, just I don't know if it was because the menudo is commonly common Sunday hangover dish and the Great state of Texas. But I think that had something to do with it. Yeah, we live That's one thing I do miss. It might be a good meal, Like we were talking about if we freeze dried for those pop I don't know. We're talking about tripe with beef stomach and uh, menudo is a classic delicious stew comprised of that, and we were joking about freeze drying that, which might be really good, might not. Um, but I was saying, yeah, man, we used to live in West Texas and our oldest son was born in in uh the great thriving metropolis of Midland. Oh man, yeah, baby, And uh so yeah we used to eat We used to get menudo quite a bit. Yeah, on those slow moving Sunday mornings. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And all about a jet field baby, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I do know about the Texas heat as well. Um, spending a couple of years down there, and it is not the same as up here. However, we do have quite a bit more humidity, so here it's pretty pretty hot. And then I was gonna say, you guys, and then again I believe are in East Texas just like a big, big giant dog breathing on the back of your neck all day. Wow, that's dad. There's never been a better analogy for it, actually, So we're just gonna roll with Alan from I had an old there's an old surveyor I used to work with when we were living down there, and he's from Austin, and that's how that's how he described Houston to me once. And that's just I just kept it alive ever since it's Austin. He's a percent rot man. Houston is like the humidity from the Gulf, just like the rest of East Texas, but then you get the extra five degrees added on to the normal temperatures because all the conquer and it's just like I worked southa Houston for a few years and and believe me, you would get carried away about mosquitoes until you sweated enough that they just couldn't get through the water. That's a good place, you know. That's true. Man, That's true unless you're a fig person though, because figs don't like the humanity that's a whole Yeah, they like the drying this, but that's a whole another thing. You've been all over the country, man, doing stuff. I'm just finding out you know, like we were talking a couple of weeks back, and apparently you've you've done a decent amount of elk guiding, which I assume means you have to live in in the Mountain West. You live in northwest Washington now apparently lived in Texas. What has carried you all over the country. Yeah, yeah, good question, And know it's definitely have hopped around quite a bit. Um. I grew up in northern Michigan, UM, doing a lot of upland bird hunting and water foul hunting and whitetail stuff. Um, and always kind of just wanted to move out west. We grew up skiing and both my uh parents went to college out in Gunnison, Colorado, and so I moved out to Washington actually right after high school. Um. I grew up on the water, and you know, we're Bellingham, Washington, and it's right on the right on the ocean, right on the coast and well technically Puget Sound, but then you've kind of got oceans, rivers, mountains all right here and kind of the same little area. So it's kind of a special, you know, special part of the country in that regard that there's just you know, so much outdoor access and a variety of that. UM. And then yeah, we my wife and I met her out here, and then we moved to Colorado and I finished school there in Gunnison, uh, and that's kind of where I cut my teeth big game hunting. UM. Did a little packing and scouting around there while I was going to school and kind of got thrown right into kind of some of the more you know, heavy backcountry stuff, not really knowing what I was doing, and just kind of fell in love with it. Man. So I don't know if you guys ever spent any time around there, but it's a beautiful part of the country. And yeah, it's uh, it's it's super special. And then we moved down to Texas for a couple of years for work stuff, and then back up to Colorado and I had a couple of kids in between there and been back in Washington for about five years now. And get you some souvenirs along the way. It's good man. Yeah, I got some souvenirs along the way. And then yeah, he said, did a little I've done some waterfowl guiding and a couple of different states and some big game stuff out here in Washington for just the season right when we moved back, and uh yeah, that kind of got this whole food idea concept going and started. So yeah, that's cool. Man. Well, you know you asked, well, we're gonna talk about the food here in a second, but you asked if we had ever too much time in the gunn Of scenario. That's my son's middle name. If that tells you anything about how I feel about that part of the country, we talked about that. I was a load of question. Yeah yeah, yeah, so I didn't know if we talked about that or not in the past, but it's it. Absolutely Yeah. So if you're listening to this, don't ever go there because it's too crowded as it is. But um, just take our word for it's a really cool place find your own, um exactly. Yeah, it's acts are hard to draw. Oh man, you ain't lyning a No, it's not. It's it's not man apparently. Uh. Especially it's world renown and we've had you know, we actually talked about the guns and basin basin quite a bit. Um all right on a couple of podcasts to go with with my buddy who's from up there in that area. But uh, anyways, UM, I don't know if we're gonna end up there this fall, but um definitely try to make it there every summer because it's just uh, you know, people think about like Grand Junction or of course Denver, that area is like the hubs for um Colorado Recreation, but man, Gunnison is a great place to kind of like you know, spread out from and go and visit and do stuff because you've just got big mountains all of place and just nice rivers within an hour almost every direction. You know, It's it's pretty hard to beat. Yeah, you got a little bit of it all too. You know. That's kind of like, you know, that's I think that's what gravitated us there in Colorado's you know, you got mountains, you've got rivers, you got you know Blue Mesa, which is the biggest body of fresh water in Colorado right there, Uh, pretty red spot. Go go there and go go. You know, the fishing there is just I'm godly insane and beautiful. So yeah, you know, we did a black gag thing once, and but I really want to do is kitch cocony. I don't know if it's word like, if it's real cool but it seemed cool. Did you do any of that? It's fun. Yeah, it's fun, man. I mean it's kind of you know, it's weird, catching like a little landlocked salmon in the middle of the rocky mountain. But it's you know, they've kind of got their own little deal going there with it now. And yeah, you know, it's if we were there right now, I would be like the it would be the jam to take the kids out and go do because yeah, it's pretty when it's on, it's pretty fun. That's cool. Don't they like run all the way from Blue Masa like up to Taylors War, Like they can make that big long track that. Yeah, they go up there. I don't know if they go past They've got that hatchery you know there that's you know, I guess it would be north of Gunnison, south of Almont, but I don't know. Yeah, I know, I would assume they'd go up past that. I just don't know how. I don't know how far. Yeah, we used to fish him down there at that stretch from you know town down to Blue Mesa. Yeah, there was a lot of fun. That's pretty cool, man. I I love where I went to school. But now looking back, I'm like, m I'm gonna encourage my son to broaden his horizons one day whenever he decides, if he decides to go to college. You know, it's like, man, you know where you're named after something exactly he might make fun of there. I don't know though, you know what I mean, It's like, uh, you know, it's it's might have to go by the middle, yeah exactly, Gunney yeah or that Yeah. So, um, I want to definitely talk about some elk stuff because that's kind of why we have you on the podcast. But you've kind of carved out a really neat um I guess sector of can we called the industry? I don't want to call the industry, just of of outdoor stuff right to where, um, you've kind of got into the food thing, the freeze drive or yours dehydrated meals? Is that right? We do full freeze dread Okay, full freeze drive, got you? Yeah, And that's with off Grid Food Company, which I guess you started how many years back? That would have been a spring of seventeen is kind of when it all came together. You do you have a culinary background or like, how did you get into that. Yeah, I I do, not like a formal one. I didn't go to culinary score or anything, but I grew up in kitchens um throughout high school. I've got some family members. My aunt owned catering business and a couple of restaurants, so I have a lot of kind of commercial cooking experience. Um from that realm um. It's always been kind of a big, big passion of mine and kind of combining that with the hunting is is kind of what I really enjoy about, you know, both of those things. Cooking and hunting is a big part of both of those, um. And so yeah, I kind of getting to combine that into you know, making good quality food for what we love to do is Yeah, it's super It's been super fun and exciting and difficult all at the same time. But it's been a yeah, yeah, that's cool man. I know that last year, UM, I had some I think it's like the blueberry oatmeal or something like that. Is that right? Is that thing? Yeah? Yeah? So yeah, beyond the freeze dried stuff, we do like a line of oat meals and a couple of trail mixes, and then we've got a partner that makes beef turkey for us as well. Oh yeah, I had a little bit of that too, Yeah I remember, and then lack of trail makes or something like that. But it's good, good tasty stuff. Man. So um, this is how we're gonna get into the elk hunting stuff? Is this is the segway or sago is. I have a friend who calls it, um so um. Why is it important to have like nutritious good meals when you're doing that country stuff? Great question? Um, it's always you know, I feel like a lot of guys kind of look at the I think there's like two ways guys kind of look at their hunting trips. There's the guys that look at it that go out and like starve themselves because they think it's going to be their way to like diet for ten days kind of drop ten fifteen pounds, like I've no guys like god, no, I'll be all right. I'm like I'm fine. And then there's the guys that, you know, the other spectrum that users kind of like a cheat week or whatever because they're out there grinding and working hard and you know, burning a lot of calories. So hey, I remember, I can get you kind of eat get away with eat whatever. One of the other mindsets and kind of where we came in was, you know, a lot of the backpacking type food that's out there doesn't really have the focus on it we thought it should be, which is kind of like the performance based aspect of those foods and kind of changing that mindset to you know, we're out there hike and and climbing and glass and every day and kind of working your tail off just to even get into some of these spots. Why wouldn't you want to treat your body like it's a very valuable piece of equipment and take care of it. Um And a lot of this stuff out there just didn't do that, or maybe it did that on some level, but wasn't really designed or specified to be going in for like a ten day hunt and with the goal of you know, packing an elk out for whatever five eight miles, you know. Um, So we kind of felt a lot of that a lot of those products just weren't really meant for or were they not that they weren't meant for it, but weren't designed specifically for the demands of kind of like the backcountry hunter or really the kind of extreme backcountry hunter or just backcountry outdoor enthusiast in general. Um and just the people that want to kind of put a little more care and thought into what they're eating as well. So we really try to go at things with that kind of like performance based nutrition and everything's all good, clean, whole food ingredients. You know, we really try to not we don't put any funky preservatives in there. Um And and that's also two parts, like we're worth small enough where we do think we can do things in a pretty craft manner um and keep the quality really high. So that's kind of our whole you know, m O. And basis is, you know when you're when you're out there for you know, a weekend or two days, you can probably get away with you know, not proper properly feeling yourself. But if you're going you're going with the intent of staying out there for five days a week or ten days. If you've ever done that, nutrition starts to become really important really fast. You know, at that like day five mark where if you haven't been high rating or eating right, you're gonna really start to feel it. UM. So you know, in my opinion, it can really make or break, you know, the both the enjoyment and the outcome of your time back there. If you eat right, if you take care of yourself, you know, if you kind of take some you know, put some basic guidelines to what you're doing, you can really extend your time and enjoyment factor out there. So that's really why you should kind of pay attention to that, And that's really at the end of the day, why we kind of kind of developed products that we did. Yeah, so you're pretty much talking about you know, high output activities where you're hiking around doing a lot of stuff, loads on your back, you know, high elevation a lot of times, you know, many miles um. And what I found when I'm doing that kind of stuff, like around here around home, I have the top metabolism where I have to watch what I eat just so I can maintain weight. You know, some people aren't that way. I am. I'll get fast in so uh, you know, I have to make sure and eat looking at it and me too. And it's not the desserts, you know, It's like I just like volumes of good food, you know, it's not like the sweets. Yeah, I feel I'm the same way mashed potatoes, man, give them to me. But when I go to the mountains, it's a lot different. Right, But like if I'm at home, I have to make sure and eat healthy. Well, it sounds like you have a healthy meal. Um, how are you balancing like the health factor with also trying to pack the amount of calories, amount of carbohydrates, you know, the macronutrients it requires to actually go and do high output activities. It just seems like the healthier you get to actually it's harder to to ruin on rabbit food, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure? And that, um really ties into you know what I said earlier when you asked if we're the hydrated to freeze dried kind of why we went freeze dried, Um, it's just because I think you can look, it's not hard to put good clean food into a product and get good clean results out of it. It's it's difficult to scale that in a manner and and keep that quality up. Um. But that's really why we went freeze dried is a lot of it is it allows us to do a whole lot more fats and dairies and kind of those type of macro nutrients that can really up the calorie count, up, the protein count, up the fat count that you really can't do in a hydrator, or that you could do in a hydrator. But it's not gonna it's not gonna keep as well, it's not gonna last as long. It's not gonna hydrate as you know, it's different, like a big difference in dehydrated. And yeah, so the hydrator is basically there. It's just drying it. It's drying it by moving constant, constant air over the product, and some of them have a you know, dehumidifying aspect to them as well. But basically you're just kind of slow, slow dry, slow air drying it in a manner where you're kind of doing it warm enough to prevent bacterial growth, but low and slow enough to where it's not like overcooking it or whatever. So you're just kind of like air drying. It's a I guess it would be like a like a more scientific air drying, which works really good. Um, And for guys that want to do stuff at home or interested in like doing their own meals, that is the way to start. I mean, you can get a you can get a pretty good to hydrator for a couple of hundred bucks, or you can spend up to like thousand for a small you know, really nicely built kind of commercial style one. But those work really good if you're doing small batches for yourself or if you just want to experiment, you know, you can do a lot of really good stuff and a hydrator um, and a lot of it turns out really well. Um. So the biggest difference with the freeze dryer is scientifically. The freeze dryer will you put it into the same kind of chamber, but it's got a big locking door. It deep freezes it. You know. Our machine takes the food product on a tray to negative nineties celsius and it puts it under a deep vacuum pressure. Once it's frozen temperature in Kansas, by the way, that's cold man. Yeah. Um. And then so you've got you've got this deep frozen product in there on these trays, and the shelves that the products are sitting on start to slowly warm up. And because it's and then there's a condenser coil on the bottom that runs really cold fluid through it. So it's under pressure, it's frozen, and as it starts to thaw, instead of going from the ice crystals in that food that's deep frozen, instead of going from a solid to a liquid to a gas, it goes straight from a solid to a gas and then collects back as a solid on the condenser coil. So it gets cold enough and it gets under pressure enough that the ice particles and the food actually sublimate out of there and don't damage it. You know, the color and the shape kind of gets retained a whole lot better. Um. And the at the end of the day, the flavor retention is is better than a the hydrator. UM. So that's really the main reasons why we went freeze dried. You can do do you do more stuff like that? Um? And also it's you know, like I kind of said, you know, not everyone it's very easy for people to go get a home to hydrator and make the same product that we were. If we had a to hydrator. It's a lot more difficult for people to go buy, you know, in a small freeze driver is a couple of thousand bucks, you know, and not everyone's gonna either be hunting enough or have you know, the expendable income to people to go drop a couple of grand on you know, a freeze, you know, a toy that they use for you know, two weeks out of the season when they're backpack hunting. So we tried to kind of yeah, yeah, exactly, So we kind of tried to differentiate ourselves and in that realm and kind of make uh, you know, a standout product both comparatively to what's available in the market and then also you know, something that people can't just recreate at home. Um, so that you know, the option of going and buying something is something different than what they're gonna get. And at the end of the day, I think it's higher quality than what you're going to get out of a tiger. Yeah. So not to get too far into signs, I really like sign stuff. That's what I started majoring in, was in biology in college, but just for a visual for people. So it's kind of like your machine freezes stuff and then it's like dry ice melting, but it's actually realized pretty much in there, right, Like it's exactly yeah, basically turns that real ice into dry ice and you know, evaporates as a gas instead of a liquid, you know, going to a liquid first. That's exactly what it does. I've had people. Uh, you know, because um, there's a standard in the back country meals. We'll just go ahead and say brands if you're cool, they're like Mountain House is kind of like the thing that people have done for forever. And oh yeah, I mean they're you know, kind of started all exactly and they make some pretty good stuff and I eat it, you know, Um, but it's always so high in sodium. And uh, I've heard people say that you need that because you're gonna be sweat it out or whatever. Um, and I hear that are but at the same time, you know, you really need like your sixty percent every daily value at a one meal, you know, like well, yeah, yeah. And I would also argue, like where is that sodium content coming from. Is it coming from sodium benzoate's as a preservative because it has to go down your massive manufacturing line and you're required to have some sort of safety aspect because it's exposed, or is it coming from you know, sea salt. Yeah, I think there's a big difference. And when you talk about sodium content and your sodium intake, um, you also definitely have to consider where that sodium content is coming from, because they're not all created equal. Oh yeah, that's a good point, man, And I actually haven't really thought about that too much because, like you said, sodium benzoate U monosodium glutamates another thing. It's flavor enhancer that you're gonna get call it's delicious too, not good for you. But I mean not to get out too much of a rabbit hole here, but you would be surprised how many really nice steakhouses sprinkled straight MSG flakes on their steaks. Yeah, I believe it. It's a very high percentage, if not most of most of them. It tastes good, but also swell you up like a balloon, so you can't untie your boots at night. It's not not good, right. You know, there's you know, there's a time and place for a little sprinkle of MSG. The back country is not my preferred environment, so we want to get into some hunt and stuff. But um, your meals are kind of on the pricesier side of things, you know that compared and they're not like super expensive, right, but they're a little bit more than like what your standard think you're gonna buy at Academy for us or bass part or whatever. Yeah, I mean I'll straight up, they're probably the most expensive ones on the market. Yeah, and that they are. If you're willing to tag on something, there's gotta be a reason, right, So you know, why why are they? Why are they prosser like that? They are simply price here like that, UM just based off of what goes into them. We really try to source local produce UM as often as we can UM, and all of our meat is super high quality. So it kind of just goes back to the quality and quality out kind of concept with things UM are raw ingredients cost a whole lot and their price the way they are, which doesn't really allow for us to do a whole lot of wholesale retail stuff with them. Otherwise they'd cost twenty five dollars and no one would probably, So you know, I would argue, yeah, we do have you know, I would argue the highest quality, best tasting meals out there, UM. But at the same time, yeah, they are the most expensive UM. And they're also right now the hardest to get because we can't make a whole lot of them on your website until like a certain day and then you restalk and everybody bos it is that kind of that's the business model rat Yeah, that's kind of how we've had to do it is you know, it really kind of blew up in our faces last summer and we were kind of in test mode and we're going to release some small batches. This is before we had the big commercial freeze dry and we just had a small army of the small ones, and that test phase kind of turned into extreme demand phase and it's it's good and bad. Um. You know, we've made a whole lot of gains in that aspect since last summer and we've got this new big commercial freeze dryer and it's been a whole lot smoother and we've had a whole lot more meals and people's hands this year than last year. Um. But that's you know, our biggest crutches production capacity. So I mean we're going to have to at some point find a way to scale that up and get more of these machines. Um. But we've also kind of done everything on a super you know, grassroots basis, and you know don't have you know, an investor group behind us to you know, fund that kind of growth right off the bat, so you know, we're really kind of just trying to manage and focus growing that from that kind of direct consumer model, and you know, yeah, that's kind of been making a weekly drop or two of the meals just kind of as we get them done and packaged up and they kind of get out this get out the door as fast as we can make them. So yeah, that's our you know. The next thing is, you know, kind of figure out, all right, we've got you know, we've got what seems to be a likable and desired product. How do we you know, get this to a point where we you can you know, make more of them and just get it more people's hands. So so if you're having to kind of you know, get things out the door as fast as possible, it sounds like you may be limited on your time during the season. How does that affect your hunting? Yeah, it's definitely affected um that, But you know, it's it would be a lot different if we were still if I was if I was still staying living in Michigan or somewhere where it's not as easy for me to sneak out for an afternoon or a quick overnight or a weekend. You know. So that's definitely definitely hacked into my hunting time, which will hopefully someday lead into a you know, plethora of hunting time. Yeah. No, so it's definitely, you know, I would love to hit the woods more than I do. But you know, you're seeing some sweet videos from on top of the mountain just past weekend. I think you're up looking for bears. Yeah, yeah, we were, Like I said, it's nice that, you know, we can get out and sneak out for an evening or afternoon or an overnight er um, kind of do those quick little bond's eye trips. But yeah, we had some someboddies up in town and one of the guys from bar Text was up in town with a friend of ours. So yeah, I took him up into our into our bear spots see what we could see. And what we saw was the berries needed another two weeks or so. Really yeah, but now there's a couple of bears up moving around there. But it'll be it'll be super nice here in a couple of weeks when you know, those berries are all all ripe up in the high country and get those get those bears moving up out of the timber, and they'll just be out there feet and all day and you can actually be hunting. Are you're gonna be harsh and berries for your free bad meals? Yeah? Yeah, it's always you know, kind of a bull all right, the baggies out loads berries up. I wish we could. I wish we could use those mountain berries because they are there's something special. They're super delicious. Is that wild blueberries? Is that what the what you're eating? You got wild blueberries up there? Um, and we get you know, there's kind of good on the timber lion. There's a good abount of huckleberries, um, which can be super good too. But yeah, those high mountain, high mountain blueberries that those bears just get out in munch on all day when they're right or yeah, awesome, Hang, that's gonna stain your teeth fairly quickly, sitting there glass on the hillside, sitting in staying your teeth and your pants will stand up, and you know, blueberry stands all over the perfect your pants, you know, that's the whole hillside's purple. Then you're there. That's right. I go find you a field of columbines and laying it and you're gonna go. You know, some people just make their soa that's right, there's all sorts of camo these days. Oh no, man, it's nuts. You you did some, Guiden. And that's something that I think is an interesting world, man, because it seems like there are two types of gods. There are guys who have done it for forty five years, and there's guys who did it do it for two or three years and they're out. Um. And not that one is bad and one is good or anything, but it's it seems like it was like just kind of a part of your career path and you did it for a while and learned some stuff, and then you decided to kind of go elsewhere. Um. Is there definitely like some good and bad sides to being a guy? Yeah? Absolutely, Um, And yeah, I kind of you know, that's always been It was always something I wanted to do as a kid. You know, I had helped out a lot at a peasant club in Michigan when I was young. Um, and that always kind of always kind of just kind of was something I felt like I wanted to do. And then you know, we kind of we spent some we spent some time in Florida, well just get back of the state, hopping thing around, and then did in the military or what's going on. No, No, not in the military. It's very undecisive. No, you know, I was gonna try and do a guy thing down there. Actually got my captain's license for a little while to work on boats down there, like I said, kind of bounced around and did some did some waterfowl stuff here and there. It's just kind of like side gigs and helping people out that I had met along the way. Um. And then yeah, I always kind of wanted to do big game stuff and you know, like I said, did a little scouting and and pack work and college there on Gunnison, um. And yeah, so I had you know, like a little bit of a little bit of experience that at least to kind of get my foot in the door. And it's kind of jumped right in and it was you know, it's it's Washington State, so it's you know, it's not the it's not the Yukon or it's not Alaska or anything. But yeah, it's been a whole season out in the woods and pretty much living in my farm saw tooth or a waltz h and it was, yeah, it was a lot of fun. Man learned a whole lot and it was kind of a I mean I learned a whole lot. I mean a whole lot turned up. We ended up all the guys that end up suity out for everybody in the season because he wasn't paying anybody. So there's a kind of different you know what you hear unfortunately, you trying to hear about a lot in that industry. And I think like, if I wanted to do it and go back and kind of do it long term, I would have definitely wanted to go do it somewhere up north where you know, the guys live it, breathe it, we're born in essentially, and that's what they do and it's not something that some guy tries to do with like a side hustle during the fall out here. That's what I noticed. I was up, uh and I did. I went to British Columbia and back to back years um as a video guy on a couple of hunts, and dude, like you're ride those dudes like they know no other thing or way or whatever than just like being a part of this like back country landscape, you know, like it's it's incredible, dude, Like they literally it's it's like the dude crawls out of a tent when it's like five degrees and the snows. You know, literally you can't see his tent because there's so much snow. And just like he's up and he's making coffee and yeah, and his blue jeans tinning to horses, you know, and I'm like, please turn that propane heater up, you know what I mean, get it hot in here. So it's just crazy. What's what's the like, what's probably one of the best things you learned about killing an elk? Why you got it? Man down? So down where we were, you know, western coastal Washington. So it's it's thick, it's deep, short and thick. So it's not that's not like Colorado where you've got these big, deep valleys and kind of rolling you know, parked out meadows at the bottom of these little basins. It's thick from the top to the bottom. It's a lot of logging country. Um and so I can of came in from, you know, having hunted and halted out on a bunch of stuff and in Colorado to kind of a whole new, whole new environment of of l hunting and chasing these rosies. Um and yeah, It's just it's really completely different whether you're not you're on the rocky side of things, around the Roosevelt side of things. But I mean, as far as as chasing those rosies is, you know a lot of it. They don't they don't blow, you know, they don't you blow her to elk out of a big open canyon in Colorado, like they're running a ridge or two over and you're gonna watch them. You know, you're gonna watch those asses wave you goodbye when they go over the ribs line because you know, you did something stupid and blue, you know, busted one cow and then she picked the whole herd up out of their beds on the hillside or whatever, and they're they're busting out over the ridge. You know, that happens all the time and Rosie country too. But these elk have food, water and cover pretty much within fifteen yards of wherever they're standing, unless they're out in the middle of a clear cut, which you know, they don't do a whole lot unless they're bumped through it or it's you know that first half an hour of the day or evening or whatever. Um they'll get bumped out of their spots and they'll go move, they'll do a circle, and they'll come right back to it a lot of the times, and that took me a while to kind of like figure out, like, Okay, well we blew the alk out of this drainage, and to get over the mindset like, oh, they're gone, like they're the next county over. Well they're not, Like they can't. A lot of times these roses can't, you know, they can't. I think a lot of times they're going off of stuff that they hear and then they're just spooking. It's a lot of times, yes they'll catch your wind, and yes they'll see you, you know, quite often too. But a lot of times it's super thick and you'll have your wind right and you know they don't see you, you know, they don't smell you, and it's so thick you can't be super quiet it, so you're kind of trudging through there. At some point it's like, you know, you know, screw it, let's go full sin because we're not gonna be quiet anyways. And nine times out of ten you'll end up bumping them out of there. But that one time you go in there super aggressive and kind of play there advantage to their disadvantage and realize that they can't really you know, they're disadvantaged too in there because it's so thick, and a lot of times they get curious, especially when you start calling them. They can't see until they're five yards away either, you know, So figuring out how to use that terrain to your advantage when it kind of seems like a disadvantage and knowing that, yeah, those might just bump up and make a big loop throughout today and they might come back here in this evening. So let's just play this smart and trying either figure out where they're gonna loop around through here, go try and intercept him again, or you know, realize, let's go, let's go the next thingge over, trying to find another herd and come back you know tomorrow. Yeah, So when people talk about elk hunting, what would you say, like ninety nine percent of people are talking about rockies, you know, like it's Roosevelt's just kind of really don't get a lot of pub and they're kind of particular, right, they don't live in a lot of the country. Um, but you've kind of gotted both hunted both. Uh. I got a couple of questions on that deal. But I guess first like, is is that something that guys should be paying attention to and trying to go hunt Roosevelt out because it's different and cool? Yeah, I mean I would my honest opinion on that. I think there there's a lot of you know, between Washington Oregon, there's some good opportunities. UM. I would also say, you know you're gonna run into less people, like you said, it is kind of like the niche I don't know, you know, the less heard of elk hunting, just because it is kind of limited so much by you know, geography, Like they're not now, they're not in nine Western states, they're in you know to UM plus you know BC, but you know they're also it's gonna be I think I think the details of it are a lot harder to figure out if you're going in blind, if that makes sense, Like if I was a guy out of the East trying to plan my first elk hunt, doing it d I Y style, I'm gonna want to go somewhere where the terrain and weather is way more inviting and friendly then coastal Washington. And I'm not just saying that to try and get guys and not come to coastal Washington and hunt like by all means do it. There's a lot of country, there's a lot of elk, and it's super fun and cool there. The elk are really aggressive, um. And it's totally different than hunting there, but it's also much more of kind of it's just different. You know, we've had like last season during archery, we had not we have a pretty limited season. It's only like twelve days compared to most of the western US where it's the whole month of September. And we do get a late season, like you get two and a half three weeks in December and end in November and after rifle season to go hunt again archery, but it's a short season and if you get bad weather for a week, which can very easily happen out here, it can just be a torrential down for you know, days on end, you can kind of you know run out a run out of options real fast. Um. And so it's definitely I would say it's more intimitty. I don't I wouldn't say it's like harder um because the country it's like I said, it's not you're not at elevation. Um, you're not climbing three thousand feet to get into your spot. Um. You can do that in some spots, and you know the cascades and hunt the cascade Roosevelt's but if you're talking true Roosevelt elk, you're talking west of I five in the you know, in the kind of low country or in the you know, Olympic range. Um, and it's fit. And then you're right on the coast, and that weather can change fast and get wet and miserable, and you know it can shut down real fast. Um, and you've got a short season, so you know, if I yeah, it's super cool if you if you want to come do it, hit me up and I'm definitely happy to talk about it and whatever. But yeah, it's it's definitely different game. Um. There's certain guys that like that too, that like just going out and struggling through the jungle and like getting wet and cold, which is fun, you know. Um, but you got a lot of guys yet you got kind of know what you know, what you're getting into as well. It's just totally different. Man. I like dry weather. I like dry weather as well. Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, last year during archery, we had like and we said, it's not like a backgrountry deal like we we've got. We've kind of smartened up to it down there and set up a nice, big, comfy base camp, because a lot of times you get twelve hours of rain and I'm not talking like a little sprinkle, it's coming down and gallant buckets and like sheets of rain like it's western Washington. It comes down and he'll just get stoked to the bone in like half an hour. And they e'lk kind of do the same thing. They'll go hunker down and wait for it to mellow out and do their thing when it's not super nasty, and they'll go sit under whatever little hell hole they're hiding it and you're never gonna find them. So you know, you can get I can get that real quick. But yeah, there's pros and cons. It's just yeah, it's just different, sounds kind of nuts and I don't know when you start talking about the terrain and what what it's like there, it reminds me more of wait tail hunting than elk hunting. I mean, I guess you can always do the the calling side of it. Then that elk or elk. But do you have guys that do a lot of tree stand stuff, a lot of trail hunting, that sort of thing, you know, ambush style. Yeah, there is, and we we did that quite a bit when I was guiding down there with either older clients or guys that just didn't want to you know, I mean, you're you're still you still put kind twelve fifteen miles, you know, and in a day kind of beating up those logging roads and you know a lot of it's just kind of running through the ranks and trying to find one that's gonna talk back to you. Um, and just you know, putting boots on the ground. Um. So a lot of times, you know, what we do is you know, you know, find those areas or those easier to get to areas where we know they're kind of crossing through regularly. And yeah, tree stands or ground blinds can be super effective for roosevelts for sure. Um. A lot of a lot of the old old timer guys you know we run into and talk to down there. Um. You know, I'm seeing this guy a couple of times and he sits in the same spot every year, and he should stare every freaking day the entire muzzleloader season, and he kills an elk every year, so it's gotta be three pointer better and every year. I think last year he said he was going on near like nine or ten in a row and fifties, you know, sixty years old, and just he goes and yeah, he plays it back in the white tail, you know, yeah, and goes in there and sits in his spot, and you might put some bait down or whatever, just kind of you know, tickle their fancy. Um. So it gets really like wait until at that point allowed debate farm out what you can bait on public land in Washington? Really? Wow? What do you bait elk with? Carrots? Right? Apple? Lot of apples? You know? I know there's guys that do some sort of seed mixes too, but a lot of you know, a lot of like salts um. He remember the actual technical mountain limitations limitations are five gallon. I think it's I think it's like five gallons out of site and you can't have more than excites and they have to be x amount of distance apart or whatever. I can't believe a state like that. I've never really, I've never really gotten into that side of it. Yeah, it's crazy. I just think of that's what I'm doing when I come up there, that I'm bringing on the back and I got some spot. That's cool. So what have you learned from hunting rosies that you would go back and hunt rockies differently? Probably the you know, we used to play things pretty pretty cautious, um when I was hunting Colorado a lot, and you know, i'd be you know, we just kind of take things way more spot and stock, you know, try and find them and make a move on of them and just kind of creep in or catch them in their beds. Whereas you know, now you're going back. You know, I haven't done I haven't done out of state hunt since I guide it here. Um, But I would definitely take a lot more of the aggressive tactics back with me, um and kind of just combined the two and get in there and glass and watch herds go into their timber and just find the best way to get in at them and you know, shake them up out of their beds, which you know it's pretty common now, but you know, seven eight years ago, when I was you know, living there and hunting, you know that wasn't a we didn't have YouTube and Instagram and all this cool stuff, like you find all this information at the drop of a dime, which is which doing me wrong is awesome. Um. But yeah, like if that was you know, if I could watch you know, a lot of those videos. You know, angry spike guys that are you know, the Roosevelt o g s out here have been doing it for a long time and they're really good at it. You know, Shannon Mobs and Corey Ford, um. You know those guys do that back when they go out of state, and they're super effective with you know, they're aggressive Roosevelt tactics. Um. And you might want to be you know, I'd probably be a little more calculated about it than I am. Out here. You know, it's like here, you get up here, you get a bugle on the top of the logging road and it's like, nopeus asks, we're diving down to the bottom. But the bottoms only maybe a thousand feet down, maybe like you're talking a couple of hundred feet of elevation. Game it might be straight up and down and be full of deadfall and Devil's Club and blackberries and all sorts. Of ship. The Devil's club mixed with that deadfall that sounds Devil's club is a big old briar, right, and then what you're talking about like a big old sticker old club out here. It's kind of got like a big it's kind of like a big maple looking type leaf, but it's got these kind of big six stocks on them, and they've got spined all up and down them and they sticking yet Chester and itch and my least descriptions break yeah, break off when you try to pull them out, and then they faster in there, does sound? Yeah, Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's what I You know, if I was taking some of the Roosevelt tactics back towards you say, Colorado for example, you know, i'd probably take you know, some of that those aggressive calling tactics with me and just be a little smarter about playing the wind and not so just you know, gung ho dive off the top of the ridge, because out there you're gonna have you know, the consequences of dropping off the ridge to the bottom might be three thousand feet not not eight hundred or five hundred, so you know, and you're not at elevation, so five feet climbing you know, on all fours here at sea level essentially is a lot different than you know, dropping five hundred feet you know when you're talking you know, eight to twelve thou feet in Colorado now where you're at Washington here. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, Yeah, So you know I would, I would definitely take the aggression back with me, but you do, you know, on that note, got to be a little more a little more cautious, um or I would be a little more cautious at least a little more tactical about my approach and try to you know, really maximize every every stock or opportunity so you're not you know, burning yourself out every day, blow an elk out, having to go at reset, you know, reset and h find a new basin or or just you know, get back to back to looking sure, So I was I kind of have always been under the impression that, like the rosy stuff is it's hard to get them to talk, and like that calling is supposed to be sparsely done and this kind of thing that you're kind of talking about a little more aggressive approach to this, right, Yeah, that's you know, I guess when I was doing that was kind of like when you know, the Born Raise guys were got super popular with their videos, and like I said, the Angry Spike guys have been around for a long time, but there's stuff kind of got super popular, you know, the last handful of years, um, and that was kind of the same time as that, And you know, I just kind of the same. I heard a lot of the same you know, preminations like oh Rosie, don't talk, and don't talk, you know, leave her bugle tube in the car, young and you know what kind of stuff like from the outfitter I was working for. And I just found it to be extremely different. Like you might not get the early morning activity you'll get in some of these other Western states where you're sitting up on a ridge and you hear ten or twelve bulls crack off, you know, throughout that base. And but if you're you know, just on their own doing their own rutting and stuff. I mean, you'll hear in bugle out here on their own, but it's not as common. And if you do get one to respond to you bugle and atam or calipoun at them, they're much If they do answer, they're pretty fired up. Most of the time. Obviously not all the time, but you know it's like out here, if if you rip a bugle off and and a bowl down the bottom immediately fires back off, It's like, okay, let's figure out how to go kill this bowl because he's got hot cow down there, or you know, he there's hot cows somewhere and he's fired up trying to you know, stake his claim, round up his hair and kind of get to business. September baby, you know. Okay, So so when you get them to fire back, it's usually like you're gonna have a pretty decent opportunity in front of you, you know, with a hundred different ways to s screw it up. So have you done much guiding outside of September or much hunting? Either way, I've done more guiding than hunting, um as far as like the Roosevelt thing goes um And then uh, yeah, I did you know when I was guy down here, did yeah everything archery, muzzleloader, rifle, deer out bears and kind of tried to fill fill the gay apps in between, and did a couple of hunts in Oregon. Um. So it was yeah, I did kind of all of it, all of it for that season, and then yeah, definitely for my own personal hunting stuff mostly mostly all archery for the elk stuff. Um. And then I think this, ye're doing rifle meal. You've got to actually purchase my tag. So I gotta make a gotta make a game time decision here whether I want to go archery tag and try and stick a big Lowland blacktail with some buddies that have some property, or do the uh do the back country thing on the east side and try and cheer a nice meally with a rifle. Yeah, dude, you've got some options up there, and that's pretty cool. Uh. Yeah, you know, I've all I've ever done is elk hunt in September um, and it's a lot of fun and there's a really good chance you're gonna get shot at a bull if you get a shot of elk um. But something that really kind of gets glass over or whatever may be glazed over might be the route word. I don't know, but people don't pay as much attention to is like some of the later season opportunities to elk hunt. And of course you can always heal a big bull any season, but like it's really if you're a guy who's really into elk meat, Like it makes sense to maybe pick up a rifle tag or a muzzle or tag if that's the later season or whatever. Um is, Like, how does it change, you know, from season to season on on what you're trying to look for to to kill an elk? And now I'm really asking because I don't know on this deal. I never riffle hunted for elk. You know, I never done the October or even November seasons, So you know, what's what's the guy need to look for think about if he wants to come do something like that. Yeah, you I guess I kind of want to. Um My, I guess my rundown from a rosy standpoint or kind of either either or Yeah, I don't And I don't know what the seasons were, Like they're in Washington, you know, but Colorado is gonna have you know, uh second third fourth riffle season for elk that runs into mid November, And yeah, I'm sure different, it's different, it's kind of generally the same. So I'm gonna do it from here because they I guess they kind of match back and forth and kind of type both from them. But so yeah, I was here. You know we've got you know, early archery September usually typically muzzle loader is usually the first or second week of October, and then our main rifle elk season is usually sometime two weeks span in the middle of November. So you kind of got post rut way post rot Yeah. UM, so kind of same, you know when you're looking at Colorado or somewhere where you know you've got the early early archery opportunities. UM, it's kind of same same typical layout out here as you would like Colorado, Like you're probably gonna have more generous and more opportunity with an archery tag then you do with a rifle tag, both in the area and time. UM. And then yeah, it kind of goes down from there muzzleloader. Um, it's kind of definitely more on the lines of rifle season. UM. And then you know you got your modern modern rifle stuff. UM, and out here you know you can be obviously, I would say out here if you're an archery guy, obviously the archery is the season you're gonna want to kind of stick to no matter where you're at. UM. If you're a you know, multi multi weapon hunter, UM, you know, I think you really could play it pretty smart based on you know, what you're trying to do. Um. Obviously, I think if you're trying to go kill a big bull again, kind of September is gonna be your obviously you kind of go to for either of those. Um. Then again, out here, I think the muzzleloader seasons are pretty pretty sleeper season. And I might get beat up even a little bit for saying that muzzleloader hunt out here, and you know that's typically pretty short after archery season and a lot of the times those bowls are still pretty fired up. Um. I mean I've hunted, hunted, as you know, helping her guiding a handful of seasons here during muzzloader season now and I would argue as many or more collins than during regular archery seasons. Now the weather is a little iffier, and you know, again that kind of depends to like what do you want to do and what's your goal out coming out here and hunting the muzzloader season before last year when they changed to where you could use you know, the clothes, you know, the closed primer caps or whatever, remember the technical pur I'm not a muzzloder hunter guy, but you know, you used to have used. Now you can use the sealed taps. But before that, like when I was guiding out here during muzzloder season, I had we had a couple of we had got to get really six. I was kind of bounced around with a handful of clients and we had four opportunities at bowls and every one of those caps or powder or something got wet click click instead of boom, and it's just like, oh, you know, like I gut wrenching feeling. Um. So you know, now it's a little that's a little more attractive, you know for a muzzleloader muzzleloading kind of guy. Um, because you can use those sealed whatever the two O nine primers I think they're called. Probably gonna screw that up to it's not right. But now you can use the sealed primer caps and they're supposed to be a lot more water resistant. But yeah, you can have some really good opportunity out here during muzzloader season. I know, it's kind of the same in Colorado. You know, in other places which kind of use coloradoes our general general western state, you know, you might have a little less opportunity for like over the counter tags. Um. The season is not going to be as long long as you know your archery season, but you might have better hunting conditions as far as the rut goes um. You know, it's gonna be shorter than your archery season, but you've got a muzzleloader which gives you may or may not give you more range than you know your average bow hunter. Start as like shot distance goes um, and then a lot of them, you know, a lot of those. I think a lot of guys can be really successful, which is those general rifle tags, especially in the Western States where you've got more of a defined migration um from high country down to wintering grounds. Um, if you're willing to get in there and get back in there and go where other people aren't during those times of the year in November, and you know in the Rockies, there's a lot of people that don't like doing that. You know, like going back to the negative ninety and a Kansas tree stand, thing like it sounds all fun and games and easy until you're you know, still at even that time of year, nine thousand feet going up and down, you know, super steep canyons trying to find these elk on their way down to their wintering grounds, which can be you know, you can catch them out in the open and the stage brush and all that kind of stuff. But you also got to be willing. I'm prepared to deal with you know, kind of more full winter winter climate. Um. All that goes along with that and gear and preparation and you know equipment. Um. But and then out here we've got a lot of you know, late season opportunities and I know a lot of other states do too, for you know, late season cow tags. You know, guys that want to go out and just like fill the freezer and you know, get me. There's a lot of opportunity for late season cow tags that you know can have pretty generous season dates and can be some some pretty good hunting too. So yeah, like you said, there's there's a lot of options out there, you know, for for kind of talking for guys from you know, the Midwest, or he's trying to kind of look to go out west for an elk hunt. Um. You know, it's really just kind of what type of what type of experience are you going for and how do you want to how do you want to get it done? You know, you want to go for you want to you know, go for a bull and have something to bring back with you and put on the wall and brag your buddies about or whatever. Or you're just trying to like get some milkbeat and have you know the experience of being in the mountains and having a hunt out there and doing it yourself for you know, doing it with an outfit you know, don't forget those options too. There's a lot of reasonable outfitters that will you know, you know, do drop camp type of stuff, you know, and it's gonna you know, it's gonna cost you more than doing a d I Y trip. But you know another thing there in that front is you gotta consider all the time and effort you know these guys put into the areas they're in um and what you know, energy wise, dear wise, and time wise, using a guy with a horse and a pat crew can save you make your hunt better for you know, probably find some guy with horses to bring in for a reasonable price and took you up. You know, if you get a back phone or you know, an in reach, we can send him a message, hey we got something down, can you help us out? Um. That would be another big, big tip I'd give people kind of having done some of that. On the working side of it is, yeah, don't be afraid. Like if you're going to book hunt out west, call all those outfitters out there, call the meat packers, call the you know, butcher shops, and ask like, Hey, is there anyone around here that like can help us pack something out if we get something down further in then where we want to be. Um, you know, I'm just kind of kind of get all your options accounted for and figure out what makes it. You know, I'm all about having fun out there, you know, as well as I like the type too, fun of like pushing it and going for the suffer fest, Like I enjoyed that too, but I also like, I also like enjoy I want to enjoy my time out there when I'm like class and you know, if there's little things I can do, especially you know, coming from somewhere else. And that's even from my perspective of being out west, Like if I'm going to a new state or a new spot, or you know, we're talking about trying to do some d I Y last stuff soon, you know, it's like I'm definitely going to be trying to utilize some of those resources. That not everyone might look into. Kind of figure out how I can make it more enjoyable for myself and more effective, you know, and more successful at the same time. Yeah. So, um, you're talking about like the drop camp stuff. That's something I've always kind of been interested in and I even considered last year on a hunt that we were doing. Um, but I always kind of wondered, like, if you're not paying a guy like his full you know, god fee and he's just dropping you, are you guaranteed a list B top spot or like you know kind of you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that, and there's like with everything, like there's always a caveats, Like you definitely want to bet out the people that you're gonna be doing that with, like taught like ask them for references of people they've done that with before, you know, look through their Facebook page, to look through their Instagram, find people that look like they've you know, done business with them or utilize their services before, and call those people and ask them, Like, you know, the worst thing that's gonna happen is we're gonna like you know, they're not going to answer the phone. Yeah, It's like they might give you a quick like oh yeah, it was awesome, or oh yeah, don't call that guy, and that thirty second phone call can be you know, of having someone's reference can make or break your trip. You know, we've had that. We've actually we've had that on a fishing trip where like, yeah, we definitely should have vetted out where our help was coming from a little further in advance, because it was like all of a sudden, you know, we're in Alaska and dropped in between like four different camps. Yeah, you know, you definitely want to like that out that out the service you're gonna use before you just go drop you know, a thousand bucks or between the group of you or whatever it is for that packout service or dropped in um, whatever it may be. Just do you do your research for sure. Luckily nowadays we actually live in the time or you can do that stuff. You know, we had a similar situation on the Gulf Coast and two thousand and one or two or something like that. I was in middle school, but you know, like we wanted to go to the fishing, you know, off the coast, so like we just called a marina and got a number for a guy and went, well, you know, it's just just like some rich kid and his buddy who on the boat. You know. It's like they weren't like really guides, you know. I guess they had their license or whatever, but like there was no way to tail like if they were decent at what they did or not, and they weren't, you know, so really found out pretty quickly. Yeah, you know, after a day of fishing with them, like, oh yeah, I guess we won't ever do that again. You know. But like you know, nowadays there's so many resources. I think, even like Drew tagging into Mexico last year, I think you could get the names of the guys who hunted the unit, you know, and and get on at least in some sense or something like that. You know, like either way, there's like all kinds of way. For instance, I got on rock Slide and figured out how many who had hunted the unit in the past, you know, and like reached out to people and stuff, and it's like it's crazy the world we live in where things are so interconnected, and uh, I don't know, there's definitely some negatives about it. You know, there's no such thing as a secret spot anymore, and YadA YadA, you know, like it's just I don't everybody's gonna map in their pocket. Yeah, I get all that, but like, man, you can take those things and make them for a positive for yourself, you know, Oh for sure. You know, if you can sort through the you know bs or all the fluff information that's out there, there's a whole, like you said, rock Slide like that is a very very valuable place to get blaster hunting information from. You can sign up for free and scan that forum all day and there's a lot of really good conversations on there, and guys dropped quite a bit of knowledge on there, you know, if you're paying attention a lot, Yeah, because guys a lot say something and then like seting guys are like, oh well you ruined that spot for everybody. Yeah, here's that. There's that too. But even there's a little like just little tips and tidbits that aren't like you know, go to this ridgeline like spot blown kind of thing that you can pick up from, you know, reading a lot of those articles um and rock Slide especially, like there's a lot of the new new stuff that has a lot of like great information on it. But yeah, if you're looking for like firsthand experienced stuff like rocks, Like the guys that run rock Slide Ryan and Robbie are the real freaking deal. It's hard to pull them out of the back country animal killing giant killing machines, um and everyone that's you know, the majority of people that are on that site are real deal type of dudes, um so, and they're all super nice. You know. You can get on there and send guys messages and they'll respond to you. You know. It's kind of like that cool back country hunting community where you guys like, oh well, if you if you approach it right, I don't just go ask guys for their spot, like ask them some you know, very blatant question that's gonna like kind of turn them off and want to like help you like do some research on your front end. You know, like go into asking a guy if you know he's hunted the spot, say like, hey, man, like I know you've drawn this tag. I drew it to this year. You know, I've been kind of looking at blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, Like if you know he's hunted it before, like give him, give him a little something to get a little something back, you know, Um, it'll be super nice about it, and you'd be surprised how much info you know, you can get from guys that we'll save you a whole lot of time and effort. And you know they're not gonna give you like their GPS spot and like tell you exactly what to go do to get it. Uh, even if they did, most people still probably wouldn't be able to go do it. You know the end of the day, it's years of experience that a lot of the guys on that site have that it's just you know, invaluable, um at the end of the day. And a lot of those guys those forums, you know, a lot of them are kind of junk now, but a lot of those forms, like the rock Side ones, really kept its quality. It's a lot of like the guys that were around before, like Instagram and Facebook and all this stuff. You know, she's getting like it's like a it's a you know, it's a real hardcore group of dudes. Um. So yeah, those websites are awesome to pull information from and connect with people. You know. Yeah, absolutely, man, And it's cool. That's what I learned last year. I had a heli tag. And you know when you when you draw a decent tag, people are willing to help you out, you know, especially if it's something like or you know, one of the hot point units in Colorado. Like guys are only gonna hut that like once or twice in their life. They're not. They're willing to share information. So for sure, you know, the day I draw like a super high end tag, which my local be never the day that happens, everyone's gonna hate me because I'm gonna call everyone that's ever drawn that tag. I'm gonna post on Offreade Food Instagram page. I drew this tag, Please DM me with information, you know, because it's like those you know be you know, play it to what you're doing to that. Guys aren't gonna give you a lot of info to the unit that they hunt every year, Yeah, exactly, you know, but a lot of guys are gonna give info for a tag that you might only draw once every ten years or it's a once in a lifetime type of deal. You know, there's gonna be a lot of information you can find about those really good tags. That's pretty easy. Well, if you draw a HELI tag, man, I'll take a lifetime supply of the Boston Chilia think it is that you have no you know. Something else that's cool about that, um, you know kind of community aspect is to not talk about this a lot. And it's not just in the hunt and stuff, but like, man, any time that we're in the back country, we run up on people like there's this strange thing that everybody kind of gets that that guy might need to save my life in five minutes, you know what I mean. So like there's like this really neat deal where you kinda or put in these situations like for instance, we were in the Black Canyon for a couple of days, you know, fishing and not that it's like in miles very bad country, but like if you've ever been down in there, it's it's pretty rough, pretty tough to get to, yeah, you know. And uh so like, um, yeah, you get down there and like you you have a couple of people who are also staying on the same beach as year or whatever. Um, for a couple of days, you're like best buds and you're like kind of watching out for each other, offering each other snacks or whatever. And then you never see him again, you know, And it's just like this really weird dynamic that's that you have in the bad country stuff, you know, and it's just I don't know, it's just kind of cool to to put yourself in those scenarios, in those situations. Yeah, definitely, you know, like we you know, we ran into a couple of different groups of people when I was you know, sending you those videos from up here, you know, last weekend or whatever, and yeah, it's just you know, hey, man, let's go doll. You know, you guys see anything or you know, telling like, oh, we haven't seen much, Like what do you guys been seeing? You know, guys, you know there's some berries on top of the hill that we're looking like they were starting to get right. But it's you know, it's like it's a lot more enjoyable when everybody's friendly out there and you know, not all cut throat. You know. Yeah, you know they were glass in the same bowl as we were, so if we saw a bear, you know, I was getting there first. Yeah, you know, on the trail, you be friendly and nice and that's yeah, it's awesome and kind of like you know, yeah, yeah, it makes the whole makes the whole being on the mountain. Things better when everyone's you know, friendly about it. That's the public land whitetail game that we deal with. Man, it's like it's gonna throw this thing again. And well, of course we're slightly in the public eye and but either way, we try to be as good as humans as we can. Um. But man, there's some folks out there that are just you know, knocked down your tree stands, do your trail cameras, that whole thing. You know, it's just it's not the way to be an outdoorsman. You know, it's just it's just not a good deal. It's not a good little yeah, yeah, you know, I'd rather yea be you know, friendly about it. And we've definitely had some you know people that people looking for where we're at and looking for our trucks when we're outcotting and stuff. So we kind of you know, Google and then they'll run that arrow across there and then you see, like you can tell what trucks are at trail hits. If you ever noticed that, you gotta watch that stuff. Man, I don't know, it's never really happened to me, but like, I don't know what you do if like it somehow did give away something, you know, because your truck was there every year. Yeah, we kind of we figured that out. You know. We had a guy that was like every time we left a spot l hunting last year, his truck was also at the parking spot we were at sneaking. Just like, dude, it's been like four days. Your truck has been parked behind mine every day. That's all it said, see him again. That's funny. Sometimes it's like I like, you know, yeah, some boundaries about it, you know. Yeah, So tell me this as we kind of wrap up. If you're packing your your pack for a couple of day trip to the back country, you know, say you're making like a you have enough for four days of food before you make it back to the truck. You're making a pretty decent sized leap or whatever. Um, don't tell me every ottum of food you're gonna bring, but like on a day, what's a good nutritious amount of food for like an average sized guy who's gonna you know, maybe hike five day eight miles in a day hunting. Yeah, so it's kind of a quick rundown of how I kind of packed my stuff. I'm a pretty stout dude. Um So, I kind of I'll really base it off of what I'm planning on doing to like if I know, if I'm going bear hunting, I know, like out here, a lot of the hikes in or you know, fairly fairly short but very steep, you know, three miles and three thousand feet elevation game like that spot I sent you videos of last week, super steep, super not very not very long, but it's like a set of stairs the whole way up the side of the mountain. Um So, I'll, you know, I'll kind of adjust my food stuff not necessarily caloriewise, just kind of shoot for three thousand to thirty five hundred calories if I'm going to be in the back country kind of you know, ready to be cruising around and mobile and if I need to do. But a lot of times I'll just kind of what I'm eating based on what I'm doing when so Ali, you know, more fats or sugars on the days that I'm like hiking in or you know, moving around, like I kind of keep my food kit kind of mobile and that, or you know, I'll eat more. I kind of had the backgrounds, I'll eat more high cards stuff. You know, like if I'm packing in or moving camps or days that you know we've done quite a bit of chasing around or whatever. You know, I'll eat more carbs on days we're just like sitting there glass and all, you know, kind of shuffle some stuff around in my food kit and eat you know, more protein type stuff for more stuff that's got like higher fats to kind of like recover and get some of that protein back and save some of those you know, well shots of energy carbon type stuff for once you know, go time. Yeah, so I'll kind of you know, kind of base my calories and I kind of like have a good kind of good idea of you know, what I kind of do per day. Um, But yeah, you know, I'll usually take one of our oat meals, a bag of trail mix, a bag of jerky a dinner, and that mix of ours will probably get you like probably two hundred calories calories, so they're kind of like full day's worth of products from off grid can probably cover a whole lot of people. And then you know, I'll do that and then supplement with like a bunch of you know, other stuff that I like, you know a little snacky soner like those Bobos bars um water down the wrong pipe there, and you know, like those Justin's almond butter packets, um, you know, the honey Stinger waffles. You know, I try to grab some stuff that like I like to eat too. What about Snicker I'm not a you know, I'm I will. I'm not opposed to you know, gold classic Snickers here and there of them. You know, that kind of goes back to the whole thing like if you're going to be out there, you gotta kind of like smartly feel yourself. So I don't know about a whole box worth the snaze and the backpack, but they're really yeah, you freeze dry them. They really like, Oh, that's to be trying that not I no, I don't know. I think I posted it on our Instagram story a couple of weeks ago. But I had some friends, high school friends that from Michigan that live in Portland, came up for the weekend and did some floating on the river and they we freeze dry some stuff. I was like, yeah, sure, So they ran down to the gas station and got a whole bunch of candy and like Choco tacos and ice cream sandwiches. Put it in one of our little test freeze dryers, and uh fred Chaco tacos. Pretty good. That sounds like skittles and peanut butter cups and Coverman patties. They did all sorts of crazy stuff. Free skittle, Like, what's what's it doing? It turns it into like a pard and ball of sugar. Okay, like not showy. It just crumbles in your mouth. Yeah yeah, but um no, back onto the back of the food thing. I kind of you know, I'll shuffle my stuff around and like our baseline of products that if you went with one of everything from each line of our products, you're probably like, you know, between two thousand calories depending on what you're what variety you're picking, um. And then from there, yeah, I kind of like i'll yeah, like I said, plug stuff in with other little snacky stuff. You know, I like a lot of like I rest a lot of my own almonds with like weird whatever flavor I want, you know, um, just have a little baggies and almonds or whatever, um, and kind of yeah, just supplement with that until I get to that you know, three thousand hundred a day calorie mark and like I said, I might front load you know, the hike and day with like thirty five and then if I know I'm gonna be asking for two days, I might you know, have those two days be more like three thousand calories. You know. I kind of just adjusted to what I think I'm going to be doing. Yeah, and then typically add a couple more things because I'm about get at hard and I like to eat food, So I usually like eat my snacks fart, you know, faster than I should. I'm a fat hard and a fat kid in person. So yeah, So yeah, Tyler and are in starvation mode kind of getting ready for ELK season. You know. Yeah, I'm doing the same thing. It's just like people don't understand that at listen. No, I'll eat in September and October really fine, speaking of that. Um, you know, I know this is kind of an ILK podcast, but we got to talk about this a little bit. Um. You know, white Tail is three months plus of what we do, and a lot of it is public land stuff where we're eating on the go. It's not really bad country. And I've never camped, uh like permitive camp for white Tail ever, you know, but like at least lunch and sometimes even dinner will be on a stove, you know, like um, you know a freeze right thing or whatever. U. But like if you're sitting a tree stand, like you're not burning a ton of calories by physical activity, but you know you have the cold weather thing. So what always ends up happening is throughout the year, like we gain weight. It's just the way it goes, right, Yeah, but it's impossible to like adapting to the cold, yeah, exactly, Like you gotta eat to stay warm, right, So, like how do you adjust your diet and do it in a healthy way to where like you can still feel like you're eating the right amount eating you know, hardy meals when when the temperatures drop, but also not like pack on the calories when you don't really need them or use them. Yeah, well, you take those fourteen Snickers spires that you have, you take thirteen of them out. You don't eat fourteen sneakers barks when you're sitting. I'm just gonna pretend like that didn't happen, and I'm gonna actually cut that out of the podcast. I'm just kidding. But yeah, you know, I don't know, I'm not you know, I'm not a nutritionist or anything like that, so you know, I just kind of, you know, as far as act like, you know, it's cheesy, that sounds like if you're trying to dial it in like take notes as you know, stupid as it sounds like I want to take that tim eating my snack or whatever. But you know, or just take like a mental end of the day note, like if you're out there and it's like super cold that day and whatever, you know, find just kind of find what find what works for you. You know, obviously if it's like super cold weather and you're just sitting there, like I said, when I do when I'm kind of glass and like I would assume the same thing kind of you know, transfers over like I'm gonna eat more shatty type stuff like almonds or whatever. Um that's gonna you know, still give me some energy be you know, calorie pack. But you know it's not like a you know, bar where I'm gonna take down physically four ounces of food or whatever, you know, where I could eat like an ounce of almonds and get as much protein and fat content from it. So I think you know where the food coming. Sometimes you gotta work in like legal serving sizes, which made for the lollipop gang came up with that, But that's funny for a child. Where do you get, Like, here's something that I've always wanted, Like I like all kinds of almonds, peanuts, you know, pistachios, like a lot of that stuff, but they're expensive. Man, Like, is there a place to buy like those in bulk and then just mix them together and make you some nut mixes? I mean, I would just check like here, you know, most of the nicer grocery stores now have a good bulk section. It's probably gonna be your best bet besides buying like a twenty five pound case from like a whole sale suppuyer. I would do that, you know obviously, Now like when I'm making my own little like mixes and stuff, I'm spoiled because we have you know, giant boxes of it at the shopper. But you know I would go, you know, I still I still go hit the ball aisle and get like dried mangoes, dried bananas, you know some of the fruit stuff that I like to bring. You know, we didn't touch on that, but like bring dried fruits. Um, I'll to hydrate a bunch of stuff and fruit stuff and my hydrator. So I still you know, still use it the hydrator quite a bit. Um super good for the snacky stuff. But yeah, you know, the ball coiles at the grocery stores are good spot to do that. And you can kind of like you know, make your own blends or whatever and kind of create your own you know, and those are gonna be the best price rather than buying. Like you know, I get in the bad habit of like you know, we're like running late or whatever. I'm like, I any more snacks, so like you know, grab them like you know, whatever they are, the snickers, like Samby sauce, like almond little tubes. It's like you could buy a half pound you know, almonds from the store if you weren't for crafts Nader like me, and like did it. Yeah, you know, take some pre planning and like doing ahead of time. Yeah, which I have a problem of concept. I can't understand. Yeah, that's why you'll have everything sold out on the website and you just drop it at once, right. Yeah. So I got two questions for you and then we're gonna let you roll out. So one, what is the thing that y'all have laying around it off grid that you normally mix in stuff that you go go buy and grab a whole handful of the one thing and eat it all the time, because you know how like in some trail mixes there's like that one thing that's the most delicious thing, but they very put any of it in there. Oh I see it, so like yeah, yeah, like if we're if we're like sneaking raw ingredients, yes exactly. I mean the white chocolate and the blueberry trail mix is pretty good. That is some good stuff. I always hope that like you're just gonna send us back into that stuff, you know or whatever. It's just like messed up, you know, it's just there work out a halty, high batch of high chocolate content's right, that's right, right, Yeah, No, that's so super good. You know, we get the chocolate from a local company here. They the dark chocolate we get in the almond trail mix is a blend that they do in house. And then the white chocolates and the blueberry was just like a super nice Italian white chocolate is super good. That's cool, man, And I like the kind of the artisan side of stuff. It's neat. So on that note, what is um like the entree or whatever that you've made that will never hit the shell? Is it still is like your favorite that is something that you've done, you know, freeze dried or whatever. Oh man huh um that that we haven't sold ye? Or is there? I think it's like surely you like missed around with like some top you know, uh fraud halibit or something you know, something there. It's kind of funny, like there's a lot of stuff you think that would be really good. And even with a freeze dryer like we're talking about, you can do more dairies and stuff like that, Like you still kind of have to have some still, like some basic parameters of what you can and can't freeze dry and and more or less, you can freeze dry pretty much anything. You can't rehydrate everything. So like some stuff just you know, if if it's like men to have a texture like a piece of pride halibet, for example, you want you don't want a soggy piece of fried halibet, because that's what you're gonna get if it's freeze dry and pour water back on it. So there's some stuff that like you know, we try to keep you know, it's hard to like mess around with super like weirder exotic type stuff like that because it's a lot of it's just not going to freeze dry, right, But I don't know if we've had anything. Well, yeah, the pad tie was we did a pad tie for a while and it was really good, but for some reason, the sauce didn't freeze dry as good as we would have hoped. So, like it was really good, but it didn't didn't have the didn't have the ship There was a lot of like there's a lot of oil content and it so it didn't have the didn't dry as much as some of the other ones that wouldn't have had the same shelf life, but we'renen at risk of spoiling much faster. That was super good, but we don't do that one anymore. But there hasn't really been one that if it was like really good that we haven't tried to sell it or make it available. Got you, got you? Yeah, Well I don't blame you. You're trying you're trying to sell product, right, so if it's good, put it in. Well, like I said, you kind of have like there's a reason why we have a lot of like pasta dishes and rice dishes and stuff that's like it would be pretty easy if you just like put it all in a bowl and mix it up anyways, you know, the base base recipes and stuff that like you wouldn't want to keep separate on the plate. It's kind of because the other day it all kind of becomes up. No matter how well you treat it before it gets freeze dried, it all kind of gets mushed together at some level. Like you're never gonna, like I'm out with a new technology, You're never gonna be able to like, you know, perfectly rehydrate. It is exactly how it was. Yeah, it's all sup. Once you eat it at the around the campfire, you know it's being Yeah, exactly. Yeah cool man. Well, if people want to u you know, get some of your hot quality meals and whatnot, where are we seen them? Yeah? Best place, um is the website. Uh, except we're mostly direct consumer and that's just www dot off grid food dot co. And we're off grid food Co. On Instagram and Facebook and that's kind of where we put all the updates when we do the meal releases or drop a batch we'll kind of post it up there before we do it and then uh yeah, I feel free to get ahold of us there or you know, our numbers are on the website. Um yeah, we love love chatting hunting food, So if anyone's got any questions, give us a call and get you get your set up the best we can. Before you know, the season's higher off two of my favorites hunting in food. Man. Well good. We look forward to the sevich that you're gonna come out with here pretty soon, the Texas edition you know some tikata guyo and in gelata. Um, I heard that it's coming out soon, so OF's a lot of baby. I'm just joking, man, but uh yeah, good stuff. Man, Thanks so much for for hanging out with us and talking with us and uh really talking the gamut of all things outdoors. Um, but we really appreciate it, Spencer, and have a good night man. Yeah, no, thank you guys. That was that was fun man. Um yeah, I appreciate. I appreciate you guys taking the town out of your data chat food and whatnot. So yeah, I really appreciate it. And guys, remember you can use that code element fifteen to get that fiftcent discount from off Good Foods on all their delicious, tasty meals. And let me tell you real quick, my favorite is the blueberry oatmeal. Now that was some killer info. Don't forget to subscribe in A five star review means a ton to us. Remember this is your element living in