00:00:00 Speaker 1: I'm case and you're listening to the Elephant Podcast. What is going on? 00:00:13 Speaker 2: Everybody's welcome to the podcast brought to you by First Like year, we are man, I'm gonna be honest with you, we are behind. I'm sorry, guys, crazy crazy busy. So I think we might have missed a week on getting out some quality information. The last that we left you with was that Nick Gonzalez himself was on the podcast and he killed a big giant Kansas buck. Well, we tease the fact that the Element boys, Tyler and k C killed big giant Kansas bucks too, or we may be referenced that that could have happened. And today you're gonna get the load down on that. And in fact, if you care to go check it out on the YouTube's the Element it has some footage of some big giant bucks from Kansas. Tyler put out a rough cuts thing. It's like just like the first what was it, first evening, kind of like just like a vlog type deal or whatever. First morning, first morning, just kind of just like some hunt where he has a big giant buck on the ground really close. And if you care to do any of that spot and stock style hunting, it's a good thing to go watch and see maybe some of the things he did wrong, did right, or everything in between. Sometimes, you know what, you can do everything right and the deer still wins, and that's okay. But it has been sixteen days since we put out a podcast. Good That means the people are waiting. They're waiting, they are ready for it. 00:01:42 Speaker 3: So on that note, See, it's become a thing where you want to say it and then you can't help. But you know, poke the joke. But I think that it's just you'd poke the joke so that you don't say something that is cliche. 00:02:01 Speaker 1: I poked the toe? What is this morning? A little sticker I just got out of my sock? Want to just lay that on the table there, Yeah, a little sock sticker finger so Tyler, yes, sir. 00:02:20 Speaker 2: This year we spent a good bit of time hunting some ground and kind of selling out to try to kill some big deer, and it kind of changed the way we were approaching our season a little bit. 00:02:34 Speaker 1: Y'all know us. 00:02:36 Speaker 2: You've probably watched some Buck Truck, You've watched some Element other videos, and we do a lot of hopping around, a lot of checking out new stuff a lot of five days here, six days there, but we found some bucks on a property we have access to that really got us excited, and we spent a lot of time hunting the So I don't know, and to me, impossible to tell this story completely for one reason because it's been a while. Uh yeah, And the other thing is going to be you're just gonna have to watch the video of how this stuff goes down. 00:03:17 Speaker 1: Because Tyler and I are both there. 00:03:19 Speaker 2: We have these intertwining stories, but at the same time we have moments when we're apart and we're chasing bucks and all that. 00:03:26 Speaker 1: So I don't know if there's a way for us to start with a. 00:03:31 Speaker 2: Here's what Here was Tyler's buck, and then here's Casey's buck, and the story of those two. 00:03:36 Speaker 1: So let's do like first trip, second trip. Yeah you do that? Yeah, okay, So I really. 00:03:44 Speaker 3: I may have even already told first trip stuff so so long ago, I don't think. 00:03:50 Speaker 1: So. 00:03:50 Speaker 2: I think we really just limited it to like some late rock tactics and then how Nick killed his buck. 00:03:57 Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about before that. Oh, I don't know. I don't know either, maybe not. 00:04:02 Speaker 2: But on the first trip to Kansas, Tyler and I spent a lot of time glassing, We did some tree hanging, we did something I spent around lot of time glass. 00:04:16 Speaker 3: I mean I spent some time glassing, but I spent a lot more time chasing deer than I did glassing. 00:04:21 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:04:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was on that buck every day. Well that's at the beginning of this hunt. So we need to talk about this buck that we're talking that that you're referencing. First day, we had a like crazy windy day that made the deer get weird, and they like kind of almost did a lockdown thin kind of early. They got with some doze and just stayed in spot. And I actually had spotted that deer and we were this is like one of the weirdest deer that anybody at the Element has ever hunted, because he has a weird body. And John Trunk camera pictures of him prior to this tree giant antlers too, and so we like kind of spent a couple months debating as to what this deer was. If he's young, if he's old, if he's sick, we can't figure it out. He's like on trail camera fairly often, but never really gives you anything. That's indicative of either three of those situations. There's he does have one thing going on. We ran trail cameras with some video on it, and whenever he would come in, other deer would like acknowledge him and kind of move out of the way, and that does kind of just tend to point that maybe he's older, more mature. 00:05:42 Speaker 1: But he's like, what's he look like? 00:05:45 Speaker 3: I mean, we call him the weird eight, but he's actually a made frame ten. 00:05:49 Speaker 1: He couldn't tell that he had the crabs on the end. 00:05:51 Speaker 3: He had some weird stuff going on, and he looks really extremely wide, massive, big brow times. He has velvet hanging on on both antlers still, and he's a super like long legged, skinny looking deer, skinny neck. Can see his ribs on truck camera. And he's kind of a reddish color. 00:06:20 Speaker 2: It doesn't have like that real kind of gray complexion like some deer do. So I had really decided that this deer was young, and I was like, we just need to if this deer is this big at this age, we need to let him go. Or maybe I thought he might be sick, but I never thought that maybe he was old. It just never seemed like that was the case, and you really in towards that maybe he's old. And so I found him and another really pig buck that we were real familiar with that didn't score very high. He was just a big six point with a drop time. And then another nice younger eight point, uh callose Nates or Yates, depending on what you want, And they were all locked down with those that morning, and I was like, well, that's all I'm finding over here. 00:07:10 Speaker 1: I'm gonna looking a different place. 00:07:11 Speaker 2: And I think about that time, that's when year you were like, I want to go look at that deer too, since we can get eyes on him. 00:07:16 Speaker 3: It wasn't that morning wasn't the same for me, Like I didn't I didn't have lockdown deer. I had deer cruising morning that you had that video of the video yep, yep. So I mean it was just I think we had as a tail of two different hunts. I mean, yeah, you know, you kind of felt a little bit like when's this hunt going to get going? And I was like, when's this hunting the end? You know, it was just a little bit, you know, I mean it's it's it's wide open country, so there is glassing. But every morning I would pick up what I or every evening even I would pick up what I needed to pick up very quickly, it seemed like, and then just walk miles a lot of times. But that particular morning I chased that deer. I chased a deer which we think you might have chased later on. 00:08:07 Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a lot to this. 00:08:09 Speaker 2: But after talking to Tyler about that experience, there may have been two bucks that are like almost identical, but one's a little older than the other, and you had a really good encounter with a younger one. 00:08:23 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean I guess younger. I don't know. 00:08:25 Speaker 3: I'm subordinate probably, But the deer is a dag him quarter horse. I think he's a mainframe of eleven. But I was chasing the deer that you were after on this trip you'll talk about later on. And he was down at the bottom with some doze, and I'm hauling down in there like running part of the time, and we run into this draw and run into this other buck at twenty yards that I thought was the buck that was down the bottom. But looking back, they're hard to decide not to. We decided he wasn't the same which I didn't even might even look at the antler's the other duck buck. I just tell he's a buck and Hanland frames are very similar. Yeah, I mean it's not like I was like trying to decide if I was going to shoot this deeer. I mean I was gonna get closer anyway running the running too the deer. Long story short, you'll have to watch the video. And then so it's weird because the first morning, I'm chasing a deer that you end up shooting, and spoiler you you had found the deer that I end up shooting. 00:09:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, we did a little swifty swap. Yeah. 00:09:27 Speaker 2: And then so in my story, I was kind of disappointed because I was not picking up any new deer, and in the whole first trip, I felt like I didn't have a deer to hunt because our goal was to go find big Bucks Mature Bucks, and this is a property that we think we're going to have access to for quite a while, so we kind of have a management mindset on it. It's a lot different than when we're hunting public land, right. I mean, it's I just have I can do both things exclusive. 00:10:04 Speaker 1: Or through Christ who strengthens me that's right. 00:10:07 Speaker 2: As us exclusively the right word. I can separate both things and enjoy them both very much. I can go shoot a one to fifteen three year old. If I saw one hundred and fifteen years three year old tonight where we're at, I would lose my mind. I couldn't even draw my boy nowhere, and I mean I would just be so excited. And then there's also a side of me that I can definitely uh sign up for the long haul to try to shoot a big giant buck, you know, And I like both of those. 00:10:38 Speaker 1: They're both very much fun. 00:10:41 Speaker 2: So on this place we are in the on the long haul, there's a it would be potentially the biggest scoring buck I ever shot. 00:10:52 Speaker 1: That's a three year old on this place. 00:10:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I even stalked him one night because I couldn't believe it was him. 00:10:58 Speaker 1: I thought it was a bigger buck. 00:11:01 Speaker 2: And uh, once I stalked that deer, we got footage of him, looked at the footage, and we decided it was the three year old. 00:11:09 Speaker 1: I was just like, well, okay, I guess I'm not going. 00:11:13 Speaker 3: To shoot because there was another deer that was really mature eleven point or something, and I had. I had seen him one morning, up up, silhouetted against the sky, and I was like, dude, a fat deer. You know, we've got video of it. I was like, dude, a fat deer. It wasn't broken. He's a monster. 00:11:30 Speaker 1: Yeah we know him. 00:11:31 Speaker 3: Well, yeah we at first, you weren't so sure you ended up seeing him later on. 00:11:35 Speaker 2: You're we stalked into this that deer real close. We're trying to kill him. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: You know. 00:11:39 Speaker 2: We saw a big, giant, mature buck going to a thicket and we're like, let's go find him. And then sure enough it was that one. He's like sheared off all of his times on his left side, and then we got really good footage of him a different knight. We run in some open countries, so it sounds like we're seeing a million deer and we were, but like some of. 00:11:56 Speaker 1: Them are a mile away. 00:11:57 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, so like for sure, it's it's actually super low deer density country. It's just you can see a lot and there's some food around and stuff that kind of helps with that. 00:12:08 Speaker 3: It's interesting because there was crop food and then there was corn piles, and they weren't using the stuff we put out at all. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, the corn was tough. 00:12:17 Speaker 3: I mean, if they were going to food, it was crop fields, and the bucks were just in Here's what people would call it lockdown, But really what was happening is the deer. We're just not interested in anything by dose. And so, like if you'd have been sitting in a tree. Another friend that was up there at the same time that first hunt, and he was like, I just feel like it's lockdown. 00:12:41 Speaker 1: I just feel like it's locked down. I'm like, dude, I don't know. 00:12:43 Speaker 3: We're seeing deer cruising everywhere, and you feel like it's lockdown because he's sitting at a feeder and he's not seeing any bucks. And I'm like, you should see our cameras. We've got four cameras over food and there's nothing right. So, I mean we're out there having to chase them. Yeah, while they're doing. 00:13:02 Speaker 2: I can't tell you how far the deer were from trees that I was seeing. They were nowhere near a tree. You could not set up in an ambush and expect to kill deer. Yeah, and that whole time I was hunting the ghost deer. There's a deer we had on camera. He's a big mature ten point called him the Big ten. 00:13:18 Speaker 4: Uh. 00:13:18 Speaker 2: We haven't got very creative with our names. We have done a lot of deer naming, and we had multiple years. 00:13:24 Speaker 3: It might be a little different, but you kind of like don't know if the dear is going to be there, that's you know what I mean. 00:13:28 Speaker 2: So we were just we don't know what deer around or whatever, you know. So we have the Weird eight in the Big ten and ten and the Young ten. 00:13:35 Speaker 3: That's right names Big eight, Oh, drop six, Drop six and drop eight and drop drop nine. 00:13:42 Speaker 1: Was he a drop nine? That's right? Yeah, but he almost killed that deer. He wasn't on camera very often. 00:13:47 Speaker 3: No, he was big though. He was a close encounter close like I was like I was in boat range, but I was definitely getting close. 00:13:56 Speaker 2: He's on he's on our page, on our Instagram page. Yeah, there's a real of that deer. He's also on our YouTube shorts. How about that big dog. So I'm hunting the Ghost ten, which is the Big ten. He we have a couple of pictures of him in mid October and then nothing, So I don't know if he's dead or what. That's kind of sad, but he's like one of those deer I think of like the word regal when I think of it, deer, just like a very big body, like fully mature, but no downhill at all. 00:14:25 Speaker 1: He's like six. 00:14:27 Speaker 3: Year old, big brow. 00:14:29 Speaker 1: Times, just everything that you wanted hear. 00:14:31 Speaker 2: And I just start hunting the area that I believe he would be living. 00:14:37 Speaker 1: In, and I don't see much at all. 00:14:39 Speaker 2: And so that's I feel as if my trip is going to end that way. I'm hanging in a tree. I'm not seeing a lot of deer. There's some young deer pushing doze around at the same time. It's that whole thing where like if we were on public and I had this three year old a point chase doze underneath my stand, I'd be freaking out right. 00:14:54 Speaker 1: But it's just different. 00:14:56 Speaker 2: And so towards the end of that trip, I say, I have to go back and put glass on an area that we don't we aren't spend a lot of time on and just try to I kind of had this thing this year. I'd been telling Greg, we just got to go root one out and sit that in a couple of different places. Sometimes you just got to root it deer out, you know, like if you aren't finding one, you gotta go in root one out somewhere, that's right, And so that's what we did, and sure enough we're in huge country, right. I mean, you can see as far as your opets will let you. And we on a morning glass a really big buck at like a mile and a half who is being satellited by a another pretty good buck that is like a big tall eight point. You can't really tell what it is, but he's kind of tall, and this other deer is really really wide. 00:16:00 Speaker 1: I can tell that from a mile and a half. 00:16:02 Speaker 2: And I was like, that's a big buck and he's he's on three does he has a harem? And that's a That's any interesting thing I've seen is that, like when it's pre lockdown, but a buck is mature, a lot of times he'll just shadow this dough group until one's ready, and he just kind of establishes that's his girls. And we see those deer kind of come down the hill into a valley that sets up well for the wind. And one of the neat things about being in that big country like that is that you just gotta watch where they go, and almost always you can make a move on a deer. There's never like a all He's betted perfectly for the wind. I can't get to it. This has never happened. It's weird. But long story short, we make a big loop around. We can drive the truck like way around and come in from a different direction, drop into where we think this deer is. We think you bet it in some really tall, like big blue stem, and he there's nowhere to really be found. So we're just gonna have to rem ount again. You know, we can't put glass on him again with those dos. So I go to glass and then walk in the winds real stiff, and I'm like, oh, I can see his antlers in the grass right there. Me and Greg are both looking at it. We're like sixty yards away, but it's real windy. So we're like, okay, I'm just gonna have to slowly work up there. And I even told I told Greg to kind of hold back as I snuck up there. And I get closer and closer, and i'd see his antler move just a little bit, but it's not you know, pointing to me or anything. And I get a little bit closer and I put my glass up and it's not an antler at all. It's just grass. 00:17:48 Speaker 1: I mean, I was one hundred percent sure. 00:17:50 Speaker 4: It was him. 00:18:11 Speaker 1: So the stalk was on again. 00:18:13 Speaker 2: We were looking for deer, and just as deer do, usually they find you before you find them. Actually know what happened there was that there was another deer down the bottom that was blowing out a coyote and three does in that buck stand up at one hundred and twenty yards and they crest the hill. So now we have a position on them, and so once they clear, we run up the hill try to get eyes on them. Can't get eyes on them, so we start working the draws in the bottoms and the does catch us. They're on their feet, we're on our feet, and they run up the hill and he's behind them. Oh no, you know, we bumped them whatever. But he doesn't know what happened. He just knows that his doze left, so he's following him. He's one hundred and ten yards away. I Uh decide to get aggressive because it's like close. It's the day before we're supposed to leave, and I'm thinking, man, I need to get this deer killed. 00:19:14 Speaker 1: What can I do. We're on the ground in the middle of nowhere in the open. 00:19:18 Speaker 5: And man, I'm a believer in calling sorry, it's smell dude all that. 00:19:33 Speaker 1: Should we just tell people what's going on? 00:19:35 Speaker 2: Should we get this dollar text in the middle of this to our our group, and I'm thinking there's something going on, like, hey, guys, don't need to be ready with a camera because someone soys pulling up. 00:19:46 Speaker 6: But no, he just texts and says, put your bag in front of it to Cup and says, Cup, did you boop? I can smell it? 00:19:59 Speaker 2: Oh my go in this anyways, Now that I got that out, the buck is up the hill up this draw about one hundred and fifteen yards and we're looking aim through grass like he's not even he can't tell that we're there. And uh, I give him the lot of snort wheels I know how to make. And sure enough, here's what I've learned about deer. When you snort wheeze them. If they turn their head and don't look directly at you, it's a good sign. They have this thing. I don't know what it is, but it's kind of like a If they look right at you, there's a chance that they're gonna spook. But if they look away kind of but they turn their head and they do just like this little posture thing or whatever. They're like making up their mind about what they're gonna do about situation. Well, sure enough, he doesn't wint eighty and just starts trotting down the hill at us, and it's freak out mode. 00:20:48 Speaker 1: Put an arrow on, you know. 00:20:50 Speaker 2: I go to get ready to shoot him in the bottom, and then Greg's like, hey, you might come over with the tops two, which is a good idea. 00:20:55 Speaker 1: We need to be ready for that. 00:20:57 Speaker 2: And so we don't know which direction he's gonna come from, and we do then see him at the bottom at like twenty five and I go to draw my bow. He catches me, and I have a split second to where I could have shot, and I decide to not take the shot because I was not anchored. I didn't have everything where it needed to be. He wheels out, it goes over the hill and is gone, And that just kind of hurt my heart because I didn't know if I was going to see that deer ever again, because this is the first time i'd seen him. He was really big. I thought he was like a two twenty and so he's not quite that big, but I have learned one thing about myself. I overestimate the size of deer. And I think a lot of hunters do that, you know, they just deer a big sometimes, and big deer gets you excited. And I think that there's like a middle ground there on him where it's good to get excited about a deer, but you also don't want to get to the point where like you're shooting a deer that you didn't want to shoot, you know, and you have like this disappointment thing after you do shoot a deer. So that was pretty much my trip. I did, however, the next morning, go out and do a little rattling trying to find that deer again. And I rattled in the big, younger deer that you were just talking about earlier, the one that you stalked on the ground. He's not young, but he's just younger than the deer that I had seen the day before. I rattled that deer into like fifty and he had broken a time at that point in time, and I had I saw him pretty quick and decided I didn't want to shoot him because he he broke his G three I think, and it was like pretty uh substantial break you know, you'd like to losing quite a bit off of him. So that kind of wrapped my first trip. What were you doing while that was going on? 00:22:50 Speaker 3: Oh Man, for the sake of time here, because we are in the middle of a hunt. I essentially chased that deer that you decided not to go after, the weird eight the big wide dear for the whole first trip, and I had multiple encounters within bow range, including a time I snuck up on a windy day to eighteen before he saw me. I was actually at twenty five and he stood up out of his bed, couldn't get a shot because too much rushot about that, and then he sat back down, and then I was like, well, I got to do something. And also it just so happened on that stalk that my rangefinder battery died, so I had to either go at it like I was wanting to go back up and around and get a better angle on him so I could shoot downhill into the brush, and I couldn't do that because my range finder is dead, So I just had to go right at him, and I got to eighteen and he heard me in a thirty mile an hour windshow. 00:23:47 Speaker 1: I have no clue how. 00:23:48 Speaker 3: I mean, I was in the grass, going as slow as you could go, So that was kind of There was a couple of instances where I had really close calls with him. I had him again at eighty one time, slightly ordered away. Is this the trip that you were doing a bunch of decoy into. I mean, yes, I did some decoying, yeah, but I mean I carried that decoy around with me the whole time, both trips pretty much, because you know it's so open, I wanted just to cover myself more than anything. But yeah, I mean I just I was. I was, but every morning and every evening, almost every morning and every evening I saw the deer and had and put a stalk or something on this deer or got between him where I thought he was gonna go. I mean I just had encounters with him every morning and every evening for a week straight, pretty much. Eitherre was like one evening or something that I didn't didn't see him. He is so hard to kill, uh because, come to find out, after having some close calls with them and debating still even at eighteen yards, you know that deer, I was still like wondering if he was young or old because he's so skinny, but he turns out he has a really long nose, which is a characteristic. And then also his ribs showed, which was that was the dead kid. Giveaway from me was when I started to realize his ribs are showing, but none of these two year old bucks ribs are showing. Then I was like, Okay, this year is old, you know. And so anyway, that was he was. 00:25:18 Speaker 1: He was an old deer. 00:25:20 Speaker 3: And I think that people can kind of personify deer a little more than they should probably, but this deer truly had you know, this property has been hunted and so this year hasn't been killed. Potentially nine to fifteen years old. Right, we don't have a clue, but he's been hunted before and hasn't been killed. So whatever, it's more of a characteristic trait than it is about a deer learning from humans. I feel like a lot of times, not that he doesn't learn some things from humans, but I think more than anything, they're a deer that when the rut comes around, they are you know, let me think of who it might be. You know, whoever your favorite UFC fighter is, that's that deer, Right, I can beat up anybody my next more swollen years and I'll patty of the batty. Uh you know, but that's that's a deer. And then there's deer that are you know, have a lot less testosterone, I guess, is what you'd say or whatever it might be. Like a very meek, cautious person say, okay, let's say this, not not that he has less testosterone, but he's a cautious uh well thought individual, but elon, right, Like the guy may not go beat anybody up, but like mentally he's going to find a way to do something that's very advantageous for him. 00:26:44 Speaker 1: Right, I might just crush your head with his mind. Sure. 00:26:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, So like you've got deer that are different, right, And I think that this deer in particular was tough. I realized this when he was feeding crosswind into an agfield before you do one night and I'm watching him go out of my dreams, you know, straight away from me, out in the sagfield, wide open cut corn. And every time he would feed, he would loop right into the wind and he would face in the wind. And then when he'd go across wind, he would he would walk a few steps and then he'd turn and feed right into the wind. So everything he did was wind based. Everything he did was win based, so it was very difficult to kill because of the wind. That's always being mindful to the wind and then just betting in advantageous spots in the wide open country for that to be the case, I guess, yeah. 00:27:30 Speaker 2: I think that I like what you're onto here with the way he survives. It's not that deer are like humans and they go kindergarten through twelfth grade and learn a bunch of stuff, right, it's they are just kind of apt to do certain things within their personality, and some deer get killed, as one point five is because of that, and some deer live for a very long time because it's just the way they are. Yeah, And I think that he's probably one of those. It's like a plinko. I've used the plinko example on some a few things. 00:28:05 Speaker 1: But like. 00:28:07 Speaker 2: A lot of deer when they're dropped are gonna go and fall right in the middle of the bell curve, where you know, they're kind of fairly easy to kill in the grand scheme of deer hunting. 00:28:17 Speaker 1: And then some are gonna go and they're gonna. 00:28:19 Speaker 2: Fall way out here on the edges where like they just do some things they're just out of their natural habits. It's just like, man, this is tough, you know, Like you hear about the nocturnal bucks or whatever, you know, and I kind of go back and forth on the whole nocturnal thing. But there probably are some deer that for sure really just move it now. And it might just be because they like to sleep more than the other dear. 00:28:42 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we know there's some people in our camp that like that. 00:28:46 Speaker 2: You know, we got a we got a very diurnal coupy around here. 00:28:51 Speaker 3: You wouldn't even say that sixteen hours that. 00:28:56 Speaker 2: I'm saying he likes the peak of the day ten and two. 00:29:01 Speaker 1: So I think that that he's a good guy, though, is he? Yeah? Good guy? Yeah, that's good. 00:29:08 Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty uh, pretty good observation on that deer that he's just is just good at it. And one of the things you can do if you can learn a habit about a deer like that, you can then not use it against him, but just make sure you're not hunting in a way that favors the thing he's good at. Like that deer, for sure, from what I saw what you did spotting and stalking and was way better you. 00:29:34 Speaker 1: Had to do. 00:29:35 Speaker 3: And another thing I forgot to mention is that he also was old enough that he really wasn't that interested in dose. I think when you first saw him he was with the dough batted. I saw him one time kind of bump three dos and then immediately give up. 00:29:50 Speaker 1: That's your last morning thing when oh did you have this deer like eight yards? Oh yeah, I did it. 00:29:55 Speaker 3: That's the last morning the first trip. Yeah, yeah, and he was that was the last morning. 00:29:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:29:59 Speaker 3: He was bumping those around for just a second and then he just gave up, went downhill, betted. Well, the does were still on their feet. They come right through his bed later on and bump him out, and all of a sudden, it's just like chaos, you know. And yeah, long story short, you'll have to see it. But cup, he did a really good job of filming on that trip, and he got some really pretty insane footage of a very close encounter after that. So it was like the third bow range encounter I had with that deer on that trip. But the next trip we kind of went back and like quickly, I think it was like a few days. 00:30:37 Speaker 1: It was like three days we coach went home to kiss your wife and kids. Yeah, come back. 00:30:41 Speaker 3: And so the first evening I was like we had seen were in a few days. He was getting back onto is weird. But like even that old deer wasn't that wasn't super interested in those was still just kind of like lazily cruising around like he knew what he's supposed to do that time of year. And within a few days he was back on corn and I was like, Okay, I can kill this deer. And I didn't realize that he was. I mean, he was bedding close and he was bedding with the wind has advantage. It's a long story short on this. He wasn't actually killed one corner. 00:31:15 Speaker 1: Ye. Come to find out, he was just on it a lot in daylight, you know what I mean. 00:31:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, now there's a whole new tactic that you know, it might be kind of for some folks, they might be turning their nose up at it, but other people can relate a lot to where to put your corn. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of people, especially in the South and even some of the Midwest that are hunting over bait or hunting around it or whatever. And you could apply this to food plots too. You know, however you want to put it. But if you put your bait too close to good deer cover, you've got a problem. All of a sudden, it's hard to access. They're going to bed right next to it, and they have everything. I mean that deer especially Yeah, I think right there next to the creek too. So liked everything he needed. He didn't And deer they aren't like us. They aren't like, oh I. 00:32:06 Speaker 1: Need to go to the movies this Friday or whatever. 00:32:08 Speaker 2: You know, he's like, especially at his age, he's more than happy to just live out the rest of his days in a comfortable place. 00:32:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. And he I mean, you know, he was doing that. And I think this is the reason he got old. I think the dudes that hunted before were hunting corn, and he was not gonna be killed at corn, I don't think. And so just because of the way he went very cautious. Anyway, we go in that first day, it's windy, and we're gonna go in and sit. 00:32:34 Speaker 2: He also lives in that area that you get really weird drafts and winds and wind switches because of the way the bluffs and everything working there. 00:32:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we go in. 00:32:46 Speaker 3: We're gonna go in this little like cravos and we're gonna go down in this one. And all of a sudden we get down to the bottom of this thing, and we're about to pop out and hang a stand and hunt over near this corn dude. I get to the bottom of the crevass and all of a sudden the doe comes running at us and then stops at like twenty yards and she didn't have a clue we're there, right, And then we're standing there. Wind's blowing pretty good. This little dough comes out and seize us, and she takes off, running back the other way around the corner. Well, the big dough doesn't know what's going on. She thinks, oh, I'm gonna get out of here too. I'm gonna go right up this crevass right into our lapse, and at like seven yards she seizes and losing and she like takes off, you know, ducks around the corner real quick. So I was like, okay, well, good, now we know there's nothing in there. So we take off. We walk twenty steps and I hear something and I look and the widest deer i've ever. 00:33:45 Speaker 1: Seen is running away. He looks forty inches wide from behind. 00:33:48 Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was bedded in a cedar tree right there and takes off, goes over this hill. 00:33:54 Speaker 1: So we like haul over there to the hill. 00:33:56 Speaker 3: Once he goes over the top, and I find him and he beds like d yards from there, and I'm just like, no, way. 00:34:02 Speaker 1: He's betted. 00:34:03 Speaker 3: It's windy, he's betted in these plumbs. I can get to this next little hill and I may be in range. Long story short, we get there and we're probably forty yards from where he betted, and I pretty much watched him bed So that was another thing. I was very very confident he was right there in this plump ticket. Well, I don't know. It's twenty thirty minutes later. I see a rack in there moving around and I'm like, oh, here he comes. He walks to like thirty. I rains this one decent sized hackberry in the middle of him thirty two, and he walks like thirty and I'm like, I cannot get a shot. He doesn't have a clue or there. He's just feeding around and then all of a sudden, like few minutes later, he walks off and then he walks back the same direction. I thought we were fixing it to shoot him down heeling around or whatever. Right, he walks back the same direction, comes back to the same spot, and then he like feeds around for several minutes. And then there's one gap right next to that big tree. So I know, like thirty is the deal. I think the tree is thirty two. And he walks out in that gap. Well, I'm thinking, you know, hopefully he just stops gets me a broadside. No, when he gets into the little gap, he for some reason just keeps walking looking back at it. I think he might've been going to rub that hackberry or something, because there's a big rub there and he's facing it. But I stopped him. And I stood up when I saw that, because I was making sure I had a good hole in there. Right stood up and I stopped him, and I have to mac pretty loud in the wind. He turns, he looks right back at me, quartered away thirty two. It's kind of some weird shadows in there or thirty yards or whatever. And put my thirty on him, focus in shoot and it hits him. But I don't know exactly where because when it hits him. It hits in a shadow spot, and so I lose the arrow when it goes into the tunnel of plumbs pretty much, but I can hear it hit and he takes off, and he's kind of acting weird, like his head's kind of down a little bit, like kind of lower, and I'm thinking, all he's fixing to go down. 00:35:58 Speaker 1: Never goes down. We chase for forever whatever. We come back. 00:36:02 Speaker 3: Finally, after chasing him and trying to find where he's gonna bed down or whatever where he goes, we lose him anyway, come back, and I think I'm n one hundred percent because this has been such a turn and burn season that I haven't even reviewed footage hardly, I have any I don't know what any of my shots look like on footage. I haven't even had chance to like look at all the cool footage, you know what I mean, because we've just been going, going going. 00:36:26 Speaker 1: Anyway. 00:36:26 Speaker 3: I think I hit a stick because there was one right in the spot where I would have aimed, right next to that tree, looking back at it, and it was broken smooth off, and I was like, man, anyway, we were able to see that the arrow hit him in the neck, like, I mean, it's I don't know for sure. Again, I haven't watched it in slow motion close enough, so I don't want to make excuses, but there's a high chance at a quarter away angle when he he if he ducked the arrow, being that he was watching me, And you made a good point, you said you think he saw the bogof off And obviously the speed of light moves faster than the speed of sound, right, So for him to like be looking right at me after I'm mac him standing up like a squatch on the hill and shooting him, it makes a lot of sense that he could have seen that in flinch, right, But if he would duck the arrow, it would have been you know, in the neck, is what it would have been. So anyway, I found out that I hit him in the neck, so you know, I end up, uh really feeling the need to get it done on this dude. He's kind of yeah, it was like a deer you wanted to shoot. 00:37:28 Speaker 2: And then after that it's like, okay, well, so I have to finish what I started with this thing, Yeah, which is tough. I mean, that's like whenever you're hunting that deer pre wounding right, it's if the if a one a walks by, you're like, oh, I'm shooting that deer instead. 00:37:48 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. But once you do that, you're like, man, this is the this is my buck. It's the one. Yeah, it's the one I had to chase. Yeah. 00:37:55 Speaker 3: So anyway, I spend the next couple of days, uh, chasing this deer and he got even like closer to corn, like you spent a lot of time there, and really I killed the deer, I'll tell you that, and make a great shot, But I think the rest of it you have to watch on video because it's pretty insane. There's some pretty crazy encounters over the next couple of days, and there's lots of lots of tactic and us game planning, you know, but I kill I end up killing the deer, and it's he is humongous. I put him his rack next to the rack of the buck I killed last year, which is one of the biggest year I've killed, and it's like in a different class. I mean, the mass on the times and out on the beams makes the deer I killed last year look. 00:38:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, honestly, this year isn't as small body as what he seemed it's his rack was like so ridiculous. 00:38:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, that a smaller like thinner body looked small. 00:38:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't think he took pictures well, like for whatever reason, maybe he just looked old and not good or whatever. But like people, I don't think people understand how big this deeer is. 00:39:06 Speaker 2: If he if he would have had a two hundred and thirty pound body, yeah, been freaking in the. 00:39:10 Speaker 1: Big old neck. 00:39:11 Speaker 3: People would have. People would have It's it's just weird. It's just weird to photograph very well, sixty pounds less than you should. Yeah, I think I think he's just old. I mean, you made a good point that he could have had h EHD this summer too, which maybe why he has some of the leather still left on his antlers, you know. But yeah, super cool luck. I'm very glad to close the story. But it was as an odd thing that you also verbalized really well prior to me shooting this year. 00:39:39 Speaker 2: I must have had more sleep back then. You said a word, you said, I've made some good points. 00:39:42 Speaker 1: It made one of those. In a while you said, thanks man. 00:39:45 Speaker 3: You said a phrase, I'm out of emotions. At one point on this trip and I thought the same exact thing. I felt the exact same way with that deer. So it was it was a very you know, because we can talk about the stuff on a podcast. 00:40:02 Speaker 1: I just did. 00:40:02 Speaker 3: I was I was in desperation mode to kill this deer and kind of put him out of his misery which I created, you know what I mean. So I didn't stuff super great about the whole thing. But yeah, why why were you saying you're out of emotions? 00:40:13 Speaker 2: Well, the story of the deer I killed was why I was out of emotions. I So I kind of told y'all earlier. 00:40:20 Speaker 1: That I uh. 00:40:22 Speaker 2: And by the way, I'm gonna make this shorter than what I usually would because I talk a lot because we need to get we gotta go hunting today because we're trying to kill deer. 00:40:31 Speaker 1: But I'd spent. 00:40:35 Speaker 2: I don't know, eleven days without a deer to really hunt pretty much on day like six or seven, but I think his day seven was the day I had that encounter with that buck. So and then I felt like I wasn't ever gonna see him again because I glassed for a few more days and hadn't found him. Uh, And it just he was just spending some of his days on our was the deal. And finally, on like the eleventh day of hunting, I pick him up again and I know it's him, like just without optics at like a mile and a half. I mean, it was like I just knew it right away when I saw this deer, I saw his body, I saw him chasing He's he was a gigantic body deer, and I mean gigantic like bone structure. In fact, by the time that I'm having the second encounter, he'd already lost quite a bit of weight, but his bone structure was just out of this world. And where his his neck meets his head is ridiculous. He's got one of the biggest He's got one of the biggest skulls of any deer I've ever seen. 00:41:45 Speaker 1: His head is gigantic. 00:41:48 Speaker 3: Another reason it's hard to fully appreciate that deer too. 00:41:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:41:52 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And he has a weird characteristic to his rack where it's almost like his left side tried to grow too mean beings, but one just was a browtie and the other comes right out of the pedicle and like droops down. You know how the brown ton is usually just on the main beam the main beam comes off of the browtyn and down it up and around. 00:42:09 Speaker 1: So he's a big nine point is what he is. 00:42:13 Speaker 2: But his browte's like nine nine and a half inches long, really really big on that side. And I could just tell it's him from from a mile a half away. Put the glass one him. Sure enough, he's with one dough and he's running her so hard. I mean they are like they cover probably two miles a ground within, you know, just a ten acre area kind of thing, you know, and it's in the middle of the wide open And finally he gets her bedded down after fending off some younger bucks and beds in a thicket on the back side of a hill that I just know where he's gonna be. So we make a big o stalk. You get done with your what you were doing that morning. I think you were trying to chase that deer and lost him or something. In a set told you, hey, come over here where I am. I'm gonna show you where this deer is bedded and you can maybe film us make a stalk. So we do put that plan into action. It's like eleven thirty year high noon or something like that. We we uh had brought some snack bars with us or something, and maybe y'all brought us lunch. I don't remember you did. You did a really great job on this trip of making sure I had food whenever I was in the I was unequally prepared. 00:43:27 Speaker 3: It was it wasn't super convenient to go get food the middle of the day lout of we're in the middle of nowhere. I mean, you would, you would try to find you would end up finding a deer late, That's what Yeah, that's what I was doing with the glass. And you're not actually hunting deer at like magic hour. You're hunting deer like when they're bedding. A lot of times, especially on those cold mornings, it's like ten am, you know. So we, uh, we get this deer beted down. We have a really good idea where he's at. 00:43:57 Speaker 2: We didn't actually see him lay down, but almost, and we make a stall. Get the wind right. It's a pretty stiff wind. By the time we get there. It's you know, kind of really late in the morning, or it's actually midday, and we're being very cautious. Sneak up over this hill. Sure enough, I see an antler sticking up from the ground. But it's a real one this time, not a fake one, not a bit, not a blade of grass. This buck is laying over a sleep, zonked out, just antlers on the ground, and this antler's just sticking up above the brush. 00:44:55 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm gonna shoot him right here. He was twenty two yards away. 00:44:59 Speaker 2: Well, uh, there's a big yuka right in the middle of his body. 00:45:06 Speaker 1: Can't get a shot. I can see head, nick and high quarters. That's it. So I tell Greg's like, all right, I'm gonna draw, and I'm gonna try. 00:45:15 Speaker 2: I'll just like kind of do like a little semicircle to just get where I have an angle at this year's vitals. I take about four steps at full draw, and you know, I'm already It's not like last time. I didn't have to draw right and I'm already like in position, I have my anchor points. Everything's good. I forgot about his dough, like I got in the moment. 00:45:36 Speaker 3: Forgot about his dough. His dough blows, dude, And I almost texted you. I think I told you this, but like I was, I was gonna text you when you're headed over there, just to be like, you know, make sure you know where his dough is. 00:45:48 Speaker 1: And I was like, man, he's gonna get annoyed if I text him that. So I was like, but it would have been good to have the reminder. The same time, I literally was thinking it. Dude. 00:45:56 Speaker 2: I was like, it went fine, but it's the second time that I've done the thing like this where you blow the dough out and all of a sudden you have to like really make a shot fast. But I felt good about it, Like I really work to not take shots that I don't feel good about anymore, you know, like if I'm shooting my bow out of dear, I'm gonna make sure. 00:46:18 Speaker 1: I feel good about the shot. 00:46:20 Speaker 2: I do feel good often, and I sometimes don't make the best shot because of myself or other circumstances you can't help. 00:46:30 Speaker 1: I'll tell some more on that in a little bit. But this deer stands up. 00:46:35 Speaker 2: He's groggy, and he's just standing here, and I'm like, oh, I've got it. 00:46:39 Speaker 1: Everything feels awesome. I mean, he's quartering away. 00:46:44 Speaker 2: I'm locked in on his armpit and I'm about to smoke him in the heart at point black range. And as I'm pulling the trigger, this is where it gets weird, right, because like sometimes you can't take it back on your trigger. Right as I'm pulling the trigger, he wheels, and not because of me, but he sees his dough taking off down the hill. He's like, I gotta chase her. So he wheels out and instead of hitting him right in the pocket, my broadhead slices his shoulder. And that's a terrible feeling. Because I could tell right away that he was hit, I didn't know to what extent. Here's here's my question. Okay, you process things really fast. What are the chances that he actually didn't wheel until after there? 00:47:32 Speaker 1: I was going, well, I mean, because that's all so simultaneous. 00:47:38 Speaker 3: I know, I feel like that if it hit him, that it hit him pretty good. If it hit him that good, I feel like the era would have had to have been on its way already. Maybe, Like I feel like you looking back, You're like you almost won't like. 00:47:52 Speaker 1: You, I think. 00:47:54 Speaker 2: I mean, I think I saw him potentially in motion as I'm shooting, but not like do two awful much, right, But I think that he was. My fletchings were about in line with my sight housing when I think he started to actually kind. 00:48:10 Speaker 1: Of move yeah, I mean I would. 00:48:11 Speaker 3: I would say it was it would potentially be later than what you're saying, uh, not to make you. I hope that makes you feel better, maybe you know what I mean, because I. 00:48:20 Speaker 2: Mean I would take the shot again. Absolutely, I would take the shot again. Yeah, we're not here to make you kill. 00:48:26 Speaker 1: This dude on this on this shot. Yeah dead, Oh for sure. 00:48:29 Speaker 3: I mean if you if a deer can get out of the way, but with you, like after that the sound of the bow goes off, then I would think he would have had to have been turned into actually while the era was basically quite you know, yeah, it could have been for sure, but he may have been flinching or like I said, or whatever. But still I think like the main part of the turn, you know, couldn't have been uh anticipated, you know what I mean? 00:48:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I mean I didn't for sure, I didn't anticipate it. And sure enough it slices his shoulder open, not like a foot and a half nasty gash, but I can tell he's hit, and I don't know to what extent, and he just takes off, chasing Studdy down the hill. He's not concerned at all about that cut he's just himming her up. And then when he gets down there and she stops, he goes to licking on it a little bit. So that's kind of how I knew it was like, oh, okay, he's he's hit. Like it wasn't just like uh, you know, grazing or whatever. Right, And but he's fine. He chases her some more. 00:49:32 Speaker 1: They go over this little noll down into this thick, thick bottom. Uh. 00:49:36 Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, I know I hit this deer. Let's go to try and finish him off. I mean the same same thing as you like at that point in times, like I gotta getting killed, you know. And he's big too, so I'm like very excited about it. You know. It's not like, oh no, I hit the wrong deer or whatever, you know, like this is the deer I'm here for. 00:49:54 Speaker 1: In fact, that's the case. I went up there to try to find him. 00:49:57 Speaker 4: Uh. 00:49:57 Speaker 2: And and so we go down the hill snoop it sneak down kind of get to where we can see the bottom, can't find him looking around, and then I look parallel to me on kind of the slope that I'm on, and there he is one hundred and fifty yards away, betted down, looking about one hundred and ten degrees away from me, Like, I can see his eyeball and that's not where you want to be on it. 00:50:22 Speaker 1: If you can see it his eye, it is not. 00:50:23 Speaker 2: Good, right, And so it's just like, oh, everybody be still hunkered down and then do the backwards turtle out of here. But I have a location on him, and before I left I hunkered down. I looked at the thickets, I looked at my phone on the map, and I was like, Okay, where is he gonna be? 00:50:39 Speaker 1: Right there? 00:50:40 Speaker 2: I got a range, which makes a huge difference if you ever are talking a deer, figure out how far away. 00:50:45 Speaker 1: He is, and then you can triangulate a little bit and sure enough back out. 00:50:49 Speaker 2: We get down in this ravine and we walk around crest again and I can get to forty five like very easily, which is a shot. But when you're hunting white tails on the ground in the middle of open country, forty five feels like you are staying out. 00:51:05 Speaker 1: That's pretty good. 00:51:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, And I feel very comfortable with that range. I am shooting well at this moment or at this point in the season. Practice some and so like, this is great, forty five, I'll take it. 00:51:18 Speaker 1: It's not that windy. I'm just gonna do the exact opsite the last time. 00:51:23 Speaker 2: Instead of like getting up there forcing it, you know, and trying to shoot him in his bed, I'm just gonna let him stand up. We're gonna sit here until he stands up, and I get in a really comfortable position to where like, you know, how it is, you've done this before. In fact you're Kansas buck. In fact your buck that you did that really awesome fifty AARs shot on was like the exact kind of situation, right, except you hadn't shot at him yet, but he was with a dope betted down kind of midday almost and you just gotten a you know, in a spot where you're gonna be able to very confidently shoot at him. And that's what I did. I kind of got where he was like at like my ten o'clock. You know, it's a real good angle for you, and just waited and I think it probably took almost an hour, and it was because it was like the rut fits was going on around there, and there was some cows moving around, and then also a three or four year old eight point kind of cruised by at like ninety and sure enough it was enough to make him stand up. And then he stands up and his doe stands up and they're looking away. I'm excited, but I'm like very in the moment chill, I drawback. 00:52:45 Speaker 1: He doesn't have a clue. 00:52:46 Speaker 2: I'm there, AM dialed to forty five, you know, because I just know his exact range, and I anchor up. I put my pen where I wanted to go. I released my arrow. It's flying great, everything is awesome, and I hammer him right where I wanted to hit him, and he takes off like a scalded banchie. I mean, he was just he was out of there, and I'm kind of like really excited. I've learned though that like, unless you see him fall, it's not like over right. So y'all can kind of tell where this is going at this point in time. Well, I kind of talk about some stuff with Greg and then off camera, Greg's like, hey, when you look at this, because I'm not sure it's as good as you think it is. 00:53:34 Speaker 1: And I was like, there's no way I hit him exactly where I wanted it to. 00:53:37 Speaker 2: We look at the video and sure enough, I just don't get great penetration at the deer's quartern away. And to kind of make this a long story short thing, I hit a bunch of ribs on the way in. I hit three ribs, and you can also you told me it was a little touch higher than you wanted it to be. Maybe remember that, but you said it's you said it's good, you know what I mean. So I mean, I'm sure it was, but I just remember was but it was it was still like in body cavity, no problem, but it was like left and right. 00:54:11 Speaker 1: It was. It was where I wanted to do and it was a touch hard. 00:54:14 Speaker 2: And he was downhill, so that I think that might make a difference on that. You know, it might've been kind of one of the kind of deals. But uh, I mean he was on the money as far as I considered. And you know, uh, since I know the end of this story, I can tell you I hit three ribs and it just absolutely drained every bit of uh the punch and power in my era. Had I shot him with a big mechanical because if you've listened to the Ament podcast, you know that I've kind of gone on a journey with broadheads and I've kind of I've gone all over and had about decided that a big mechanical is the best way to go, uh, for all of its flaws and for all of its positivetives. It's probably my favorite and still very well maybe at this moment, I don't know, but in that instance, and that's right, and and and and I'll just go ahead and jump forward. In that instance, I liked it a lot. And we tracked the deer. Can't find him. Find a ton of blood, but by penetration isn't good, So trying to figure out what's going on. 00:55:23 Speaker 1: Find the arrow. 00:55:24 Speaker 2: I've got blood quite a ways up the arrow, but it's hard to tell where how far it went in, you know, YadA YadA whatever. I'm thinking that I went through, punched the opposite shoulder and it immediately bounced back. I call a dog guy because I'm like, hey, I don't know, I don't know what's going on for sure. 00:55:42 Speaker 1: And uh. 00:55:43 Speaker 2: He's real supportive of the people that I talked to you that were you know, in the uh the deer tracking community. 00:55:50 Speaker 1: We're all like really cool about this stuff. So that was cool. 00:55:53 Speaker 2: And there he had texted a bunch of his buddies, and they were all confirming what they saw in the footage and what I told them, and they had all decided it was a single lung and that the deer's probably he said, ninety percent still alive. 00:56:07 Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, I just I'm. 00:56:11 Speaker 2: Not going to say I disagree, but I just can't hardly believe what y'all are saying. But because him and all of his friends, who have had thousands of track jobs between them, all agreed on the same thing, it's like, Okay, well I'm going I'm gonna trust the experts, and we go out the next morning to glass. Sure enough, I see him slowly head down, walk from one drainage to another, and I think he was getting out of the out of the sun to go get in the shade, and. 00:56:39 Speaker 1: It's like, oh my gosh, he is still alive. And it was like literally. 00:56:44 Speaker 2: One of those you know, God things, where he covered maybe ninety yards where he would have been in view from me from three quarters a mile away, and it lasted maybe forty five seconds. 00:56:55 Speaker 1: And I saw him do it. I could not believe it. 00:56:59 Speaker 2: So we have a location on the deer that I wounded that had a ridiculous amount of blood the night before and has now been shot twice. Some of y'all hopefully love me, but I know some people think that because every once in a while it takes, it doesn't go perfect, that it's your bad hunter or whatever, and maybe I am. But man, I'm telling you, if you do this enough, and we do it a lot, you're gonna have some situations like this. And that's what the dog guy said, And this is what the point I wanted to make. 00:57:33 Speaker 1: I asked him. I was like, Man, is this because I shot a mechanical? 00:57:35 Speaker 2: And you said, Man, I've been on like three hundred fifty track jobs and I can't tell you which one's better, because it's always something where you know, if you would have shot him with a mechanical instead of a fix, we would have found him because it makes a bigger hole. Or if you would have shot him with a fix instead of a mechanical, you would have punched through there. 00:57:56 Speaker 3: And he said it just there's no rhyme or reason. You know what the great broadhead debate it is about. He goes it well, essentially what it boils down to. But yeah, it's it's about justifying why you weren't good enough. That's what it is for every I think everybody wants to blame and switch broadheads because they didn't make a good enough shot. And like you said, you remembered that shot differently than Greg saw it on footage. So not it happens fast. The arrow's moving, you know, two hundred and sixty feet per second. So and I didn't even see my impact on mine, you know what I mean. So I didn't even know. I just think that that the arrows six inches off of where you think it hits all the time, and I think that that happens for people. And then they go this broadhead's junk blah blah blah, didn't deploy whatever. Now it hit three ribs and just didn't get a lot of penetration or whatever. You know, Like there's just a million different things, and I think you just what you gotta do is you got to decide, like here's a broadhead that's pretty well trusted, been around a long time and has killed a lot of deer, and that's the one I like the best. 00:59:00 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna sure. 00:59:01 Speaker 2: I mean what I where I'm at is I still go back and forth, Uh, from when I enjoy that, but. 00:59:08 Speaker 1: There's just certain scenarios where one's better than the other. 00:59:10 Speaker 2: And like if I'm in the thick stuff like this morning, or we've been doing some t bridalin, sometimes I'll put a fixed blade on and sometimes I'll put a mechanical on. If we're in the thin stuff and I think I'm gonna want to shoot a little further, then I'm gonna choose use the mechanicals. 00:59:24 Speaker 1: For sure. 00:59:24 Speaker 2: If I'm in the thick stuff and there's a chance that there's a vine that I can't even see single bevel, baby, no, none of those. But uh, anyways, back to the oh, back to the dog guy though. Uh, if you don't follow some of these pages on Facebook that shows like deer recovery and where the deer we're hit and the deer that are still alive, it's like, for sure interesting I would I would say, go do it because there's some deer that are hit like full pass through holes on both sides, exactly where you want to hit a d and they have him ontreil camera three days later. And that's what this guy, this this guy was telling me too. He's like, man, sometimes it's unexplainable. You wouldn't believe some of the good shots I see on deer that the deer they have like they. 01:00:13 Speaker 1: Call it like a proof of. 01:00:15 Speaker 2: Life or something like that, where you know, they get him on trail camera and see him again or something. And that was one of the things that gave me some confidence this deer was still alive. So I went out there sure enough, saw the deer, saw where he went to, thought he was bedded, and we start making some stalks and I ended up killing him and like you did, we'll go, we'll uh, we'll just leave the rest for the video. But I was thankful that God put me in the right places to be able to to kill the deer, and that even though it wasn't how I would have drawn it up, at the end of it, I was able. 01:00:47 Speaker 1: To shoot a very big, very mature buck on the ground. Very cool. So pretty thankful for it. Man. And just so y'all know these videos will be out. I can't. I don't know if I can tell you when because we're so busy hunting and doing stuff. This might be, you know, next summer, it might be the spring. I don't know. If you have some thoughts on when you'd like to see some really good. 01:01:06 Speaker 2: Deer tomorrow, tomorrow, not before to your season's over, let us know, but man, congratulate the big buck, can you too? 01:01:15 Speaker 1: Thanks? Man five? 01:01:17 Speaker 2: All right, guys, remember to congratulate your friends, and remember this is your element.