00:00:00 Speaker 1: I'm Tyler and I'm and you're listening to V on the podcast What's going on on my woods People case. Smith is in the house. He he's actually in the truck and I'm in the truck driving. This is the Element podcast, brought to you by Firstla Year. And we are driving down the road. It is six forty six. It's been dark for a minute, and I am tired. Got tyre Jones actually tied Jones. You still got a little bit energy. 00:00:42 Speaker 2: I know, I keep you just kind of like sipping it. 00:00:44 Speaker 1: But I also don't want to get too caffeined out before you know bed. 00:00:47 Speaker 2: But we're doe a little more sleep. I think I am too. You can always pop a Bennie, you know. 00:00:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's for sure. That's a Michael word, that is it. Yeah, that's funny. 00:01:02 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:01:02 Speaker 1: We're we're heading, uh you know, on the road, heading down the road, trying to get to a city to take a little nap for a little bit tonight and get back up and get after it again. And it's uh, we were just talking about this off air case. But there's a lot of logistics and I tell people there is a lot that I actually solve problems for eleven. 00:01:24 Speaker 2: I don't hunt for eleven. 00:01:27 Speaker 1: And people may not quite understand this, because I think there's even some people that we're pretty closely associated with and work with quite often that don't fully understand the amount of logistics that go into kind of what we do. And I guess we talk about that just real briefly before we go into actual good stuff. But I mean there's a lot of things to consider. 00:01:49 Speaker 3: Speaking of the good stuff, we're coming back real heavy from where we've been. That's right in case y'all want to know what the good stuff is. Yeah, we got some real good stuff. We don't have enough coolers. Goodness, the most hamburgered do you have ever seen somebody? 00:02:02 Speaker 2: Maybe that is bad. It's scary, Yeah, it is. 00:02:08 Speaker 3: Radiator some of the slow down about five mile out of Okay. So logistics, yeah, I mean the things that we consider when we're on a trip is what tags do we have? 00:02:20 Speaker 1: How much have we spent on those tags? How much does it costs to go where we're maybe needing to go or wanting to go. Next, our truck cameras fully batteried up, do they need to be moved? 00:02:34 Speaker 2: Is there corn to put out? Somewhere. 00:02:36 Speaker 1: Is there a feeder to move somewhere? Are there things that are moving in front of those cameras or at those feeders? Is the rout happening here or is it happening there? What's the weather up there? What's the weather here? What's the weather over there? What do our wives want us to do right now? What do our wives want us to do? But what do we need to do? Actually, because it's time of year to make Hey, there's just a million things think? 00:02:59 Speaker 2: Where do uh? You know? 00:03:01 Speaker 1: How do we go pick up a deer from the processor that way you put in there a couple of days ago, because we still had a tag in the area. 00:03:09 Speaker 2: How do we pay for it? Do you have a credit card? 00:03:11 Speaker 4: Case? 00:03:11 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:03:11 Speaker 1: Yeah, I got one? Okay, did you get a receipt? No, let me go in there and grab that. There's just a million things go. 00:03:18 Speaker 2: You know, where are employees at right now? What? 00:03:20 Speaker 3: What do they need to be working on in the passenger seat while we're driving? 00:03:25 Speaker 2: Where? 00:03:26 Speaker 3: What's their status physically? Are they super tired? Do we need to give them a break? Do we need to give them some accommodations? Do? 00:03:33 Speaker 2: Where are they add emotionally? 00:03:34 Speaker 3: Are they missing home, are they you know, they having a family situation, how are they doing financially? And these are all things that we care about, not only on a business level, on a personal level, because there's a there's like this glaring flaw of Tyler and I that we become really good friends with the people that were around and so like. 00:03:51 Speaker 2: We're we kind of like are trying. 00:03:53 Speaker 3: To be a part of their lives, you know, I think maybe not triesn't even the right word, but just end up being being in that, you know, and it's it's like a big deal. And then beyond that, it's like what we're talking about while to go where Okay, we have effectively filled eighty five percent of our tags, Tyler and Case now are going to go on a little journey without part of our crew. And what can we do with the next seventy two hours that is the most beneficial to us and our families and our audience. 00:04:28 Speaker 2: And our core memories? Yeah, because you know, core memories matter, you know. 00:04:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can go sit in a tree stand in Nebraska and not see a deer for several days hardly, or we can go home, see our families and then go to another place to actually dear moving. 00:04:45 Speaker 2: Now here's the deal, y'all. 00:04:48 Speaker 3: Some of y'all and maybe your dads or granddads have shared this sentiment about outdoor TV, and the phrasing usually goes like this, Oh, them guys get hunt the best places in the world. Yeah, but it's nice. Most often that is not us. We do hunt a couple good places. I still don't think I've hunted the best place in the world yet. I would love to, you know, And I'm not trying to throw shade at anybody, Like, dude, when Wadelle and them guys go up to the reservation and smoke, John Elk gets sick. I love watching that stuff, you know, so like, I'm cool with it, but I just want you all to know that. 00:05:28 Speaker 2: It's kind of sometimes it's kind of tough for us. We ohut here. Yeah. 00:05:32 Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm not looking for your sympathy because I know it's a huge blessing how much we get to hunt and do stuff. 00:05:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do. 00:05:38 Speaker 1: We get to hunt a lot, but we also have these things that are really difficult to pull off while we're trying to hunt, too that if we don't do them, then we don't get to hunt. So there's a lot of insight to our business for logistics, and so. 00:05:57 Speaker 3: We are currently doing some logistication at the moment because of some gratification. 00:06:06 Speaker 2: Sanctification, satify, satisfaction. 00:06:08 Speaker 3: Or whatever you want to callification that has recently occurred. 00:06:14 Speaker 2: So if you listen to our last episode, you got to hear me talk very uh longly to speak like dj. 00:06:23 Speaker 3: T about a couple of deer that I shot, big Lee talking and uh and that was a lot of fun. So thank y'all for bearing with me through that. But now the turn tables, Uh. 00:06:40 Speaker 2: Tyler Jones, I mean, let me just set the stage. 00:06:43 Speaker 1: Okay thisyer, you don't have to You're not obligated to do this. 00:06:48 Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not gonna go crazy. 00:06:50 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna get you into where, uh, you can speak for yourself. 00:06:54 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:06:54 Speaker 3: I shot a deer in Nebraska, headed to South Dakota and shot a deer there again. 00:07:00 Speaker 2: And there's this term that the kids are saying now today. It's called fomo. 00:07:05 Speaker 3: And we've been discussing fomo a little bit whilst I was in one state and Tyler was in the other. And then I shot a deer and I told Tyler, Honestly, man, I can't find the fomo off for you anymore. 00:07:18 Speaker 2: You're probably gonna have it pretty bad after this. And then then what happened. 00:07:22 Speaker 1: Talker, Oh, I went into a deep dark circle. Now I I did. I did have the fomo you know, man, To speak candidly, it was really hard to go hunting. Let's see one, Uh, have I been on three y tail trips, one with you, two without you? 00:07:47 Speaker 2: Is that right? 00:07:50 Speaker 3: Well, it depends on where your cut off is, because prior to this trip we went. Prior to like this big trip, Yeah, we went on one trip together. 00:07:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I had two before that, yes, And and those two were fairly long trips. And I had not killed a white tail deer that I know of on those trips. And here we are. It is November one. KC has killed two deer in the last three days, and I have not killed a white tail yet. And on my I'm I'm on my fourth state. 00:08:27 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:08:28 Speaker 3: And by the way, you've worked your tail off and still hadn't killed Yeah. And I'm not saying like, oh, you getn't killed it, you know, but just like uh in Nebraska, Honestly, I didn't have to work that hard. Yeah, it just it was one of those blessings where the deer walked out and I shot it South Dakota. I had to work pretty hard, but it was just one day. You were probably on like day eighteen of deer hunting. 00:08:49 Speaker 1: If you had if you had watched, if you had watched, if you watched North Dakota, you know probably some of the things I've dealt with that were extremely me not fun early this early season or whatever, and how hard we were working. And I would say that by November one, it has been five years since I have not tagged a deer before November one. Twenty nineteen was the last year that I didn't tag a deer before November one, Right, Yeah, I tagged the first year I shot That year was number fourth, I believe. No, uhh, No, it would have been November seventh that year. 00:09:31 Speaker 2: Are you sure? Nineteen? I believe so. I thought it was like November fourteenth. No. 00:09:36 Speaker 1: I shot a Texas public land buck on the seventh, Oh okay, and then I shot an Illinois public land buck on the twenty first, I think. 00:09:47 Speaker 2: So. 00:09:48 Speaker 1: Anyway, it has been since then that I didn't tag a pre November Buck. So I started feeling pretty pretty lowly. Like I said, we've you've heard me on the podcast talk about it, but we've had some hard times in the last couple of months. Family member passed and some different things that you know, we've dealt with h both me and Casey, and you know, going through a whole two month pre season pre rut season four trips, fourth trip, and I hadn't killed a deer yet. I started getting the fomo. I started feeling like what am I doing? Like, how do you how do you? You know? How come I can't figure it out? You know, I mean there's just not many people that hunt for you know, four weeks without shooting a deer probably, So it starts to it starts to feel a little, you know, you're a little strangled, feeling kind of and and definitely the fomo. So I don't know, I go into let's see, I go into you killed on the first. 00:10:58 Speaker 2: I go. 00:11:02 Speaker 1: Into that next day the second with a mentality that, man, it's been really tough in Nebraska. I don't feel like we're really in a great spot. We had a couple of private lamp pieces we can hunt. One is super hard. Access got to drive an hour to get out of the truck, and then you got to walk forever because your truck's truck's hiding in wide open country behind the hill, so you got to walk three quarters of a mile. 00:11:25 Speaker 2: To get anywhere. And then. 00:11:30 Speaker 1: You know set up and all this, and that's taken forever to get in the morning and all this. I mean, I'm I'm working hard, and I just don't know that we were in the best spots. 00:11:41 Speaker 2: Can I I'm kind of an interrupter or something. 00:11:45 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have I have a lot of these theories, all right, You'll probably heard some of these in the podcast recently. 00:11:54 Speaker 2: I have a theory a lot about. 00:11:57 Speaker 3: How we have of deer vitals mixed up and we try to make them kind of black and white a little bit with how shots work, and it's just a lot more complex than that. And I think that this is another thing like that. I think that the rut specific dates and the way that deer even act within those dates and the way we perceive rut activity is very different on almost you could say a county to county basis around the country. Counties aren't really drawn around like microbiomes very often. But I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes the rut can be popping, and then you go one kind of major drainage northeast, south or west, and things are a lot different. Yeah, And I think that we were experiencing a little bit of that this week, for sure. I don't think it was nearly even some of the later stuff that we saw in Nebraska wasn't nearly as intense as what was going on elsewhere we were. 00:13:00 Speaker 1: And we were hunting. You know, we're hunting on a river, and I'm hunting one side of the river, not seeing anything, And every time that I rattled near the river, I would see something on the other side come out and at least look at a buck. And I mean, so like even even just like that's a fairly micro, you know, idea of what's going on, and I'm seeing that property across the river has way more action. And I saw even this morning, I saw some deer doing I mean, I saw two mature bucks fight in over a dough. So just we weren't on the best property, I don't think. And that's just what happens sometimes when you're trying to just get get some permission and go hunting on your own trying to figure it out, you know. And anyway, so I go into November second and knowing, hey, this isn't feeling like there's a whole lot going on here. There's these awesome scrapes here, but those probably were opened up two weeks ago or whatever, and who knows how often they're getting checked. And if they're getting checked, it seems like it's at night because I'm not seeing any daylight movement when I'm there. So with that in mind of going to that next morning, I think I saw two doughs and that was it, and I was just like, man, this is this stinks. So Casey said, you know, he told me not to have fomo and then he went and you know, created the rut in South Dakota. So I was like, man, I'm gonna take I'm gonna take off. So we we got out early. I was I mean, it was cold, didn't see nothing, so I'm like, it should have been something. We're blitzing out of here. I just got the fomo. So we took off and kind of, you know, showed up later than I wanted to, but got into a place and y'all you Greg came and met us thankfully he was kind enough to drive out meet us so that you could come rattle for me. 00:14:55 Speaker 3: Well, we had orchestrated a plan pre trip where we were like, hey, there's a lot of ground to cover and there's a chance that we can go force the issue. Essentially, we were thinking about a lot of these thick habitat pockets that we know of and that we were gonna just work through them and do some rattle and do some real aggressive stuff and see what happens. 00:15:23 Speaker 2: As they see. 00:15:26 Speaker 3: And so this was like the initiation of that, and it was kind of. 00:15:35 Speaker 2: Instantaneous, like it happened quick. 00:15:37 Speaker 3: We went from like we're hunting a different place to Okay, you're coming up, you're gonna do this thing. I'm gonna go join you. I don't know if I can make it there in time. And then you're like, no, well wait on you. So we flew out there to meet. 00:15:47 Speaker 1: You well and wait yeah, and it was you know, yeah, it was I'm just glad that Greg was able to drive and help that help out there and let you meet us, and you know in a place where we still had some time to try to, you know, get something done. So we we essentially meet up, get our camo back on, and go hauling off into this place. And it's very thick where we're going. Uh, we kind of assume that it's just uh, I mean that there's gonna be some open more kind of some more open stuff in within these thickets that we can get some shots off, you know. But I mean, if you've ever been in thicket type country, like there's there's different, you know, stem count there's different. 00:16:39 Speaker 2: It's like a high lowland wetland top stuff. 00:16:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and like it's the same like you could go walking through plumb thickets or whatever, right and you're you're there's gonna be places that you can get shots in some of those thickets and around the edges of them, and some that you won't. So you kind of trying to we're trying to make set up a setup, you know, work for us at some point through this stuff and we bail off in there. We finally get, you know, in through the thick, nasty my bow is hanging on everything. 00:17:08 Speaker 3: I mean, uh, there's a success successional growth. 00:17:13 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:17:13 Speaker 3: I think it's successional, like, uh, things succeed other things. 00:17:18 Speaker 2: Uh so is the is the imp implied turn there? 00:17:21 Speaker 3: So like you can imagine, uh, what it's they call it like edge feathering kind of is the same kind of thing where you know, the unnatural is a hard edge where you have an ag field meets big timber. The more natural thing to happen is there's some big trees and there's some smaller trees, and then there's some new trees, and then there's some bushes, and then there's some tall grass and then you get what I'm saying, and so like you almost have to penetrate some of that front stuff to. 00:17:47 Speaker 2: Make it work. 00:17:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, So and that that the you know, if you think about big trees and then all the way down feathered down to grass, the stem count gets higher and higher. Right, so stuff to penetrate it, like he's saying, is gonna grab your bow and make it tough on you. We finally get up in there, it's kind of warmed up a little bit. We had kind of a we had a lot of cloud cover and I think it was holding a lot of earths were warmth in and uh, it increased the daily high just a little bit like. 00:18:17 Speaker 3: Those days though I would take I don't know what the ratio is or like the kind of the percentage. But I would take a little bit warmer temperatures with overcast, then a little bit cooler temperatures with sunshine. Yeah, not a really cold sunshine is fine, but. 00:18:33 Speaker 2: You get what I'm saying. 00:18:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, the we go bailing off in there. 00:18:39 Speaker 2: The plan is this. 00:18:40 Speaker 1: The plan is we're gonna we're gonna rattle through this stuff and hopes that we find a thicket that it did is you know, good enough for a deer a buck to be betted by, and he comes running into something that's a little less thick and I can get a shot into. And there were times when my longest shot was probably ten yards, which is scary, and you don't feel like you don't feel like success is gonna happen, and that's yeah, pretty much. And then there was times when I know I could have shot one hundred yard shot if I wanted to, right, and so, but the plan is that we're going to rattle through this stuff. 00:19:17 Speaker 2: It's windy. 00:19:18 Speaker 1: So this is key, I think because in that high stem count in those thickets, the wind helps kind of cover your noise as you walk to your next rattle spot. And when you have three guys a camera guy and a rattler and a shooter. You can make a lot of noise going through there, especially when you're talking about a place where you know there's dead fall and you know six and gonna pop and all this and that. Well, we end up, you know, starting to rattle our way through this stuff. And there's some there's some more open stuff than I even thought there would be. And so the idea was basically this, it's windy, so we're gonna do we kind of we kind of had to work into this, right, Like we're you and I are constantly talking in this stuff, Like we'll do a rattle on sequence and then you'll come up to me and be like, Okay, here's my thoughts, and you'd be like, blah blah blah. 00:20:08 Speaker 2: This is actually the. 00:20:09 Speaker 1: Way I'm thinking about it now, and now that we've seen it, now that you know I'm thinking about this, now that the wind is doing this whatever. 00:20:16 Speaker 2: Right, It's kind of weird, but it works. 00:20:19 Speaker 3: Where if you've deer hunting and rattled very much, you know that you're not successful more often than you are. 00:20:25 Speaker 2: But every time I like to do. 00:20:27 Speaker 3: This thought exercise where I try to figure out why we didn't rattle a bucke in right there, not just like oh there wasn't one there, you know, it's like what can we do better. 00:20:34 Speaker 2: On the setup? And why is the question? Man? Why is the question? Like people? 00:20:37 Speaker 1: I don't think people ask why enough a lot of times? And this is this is it? 00:20:41 Speaker 2: Man? Like if you catch a fish, you can sit there and be like. 00:20:45 Speaker 1: That was awesome. Man, Oh that's so cool. Man, I'm gonna keep throwing this bait. Or you can get more detailed and you can say, why did I catch that fish? Well, because I'm using this bait, but was it just the bait? 00:20:57 Speaker 2: Why? Why? 00:20:59 Speaker 1: Like where do I catch that fish? And why was that fish there? Yeah, it's the shady side of the stump. Oh okay, you know what I mean? 00:21:06 Speaker 3: Like yes, and honestly, uh And you could probably roll this analogy into the deer hunt. 00:21:12 Speaker 2: But the bait matters less and the technique matters more, for sure. I mean there's so many more. 00:21:16 Speaker 3: You can throw a jig in the same place you throw a crank bait, but if you throw it in the right spot. 00:21:21 Speaker 2: You're going to catch the fish. Yeah, and those if you know much about fish, and those two baits are a lot different. 00:21:26 Speaker 1: If the fish isn't there, it does not matter what bait that's going, So that's really worth The same thing applies to what we were doing with the rattling, Like it mattered a lot more about what we were rattling at than it did that we were rattling for sure. So as you and of course you know when you're it's like elk hunting, right Like, when you're working through this stuff, there's a lot of country that you actually end up having to kind of cover and call to that is not actually yeah, uh that great, but you're just like, well give it a shot, because we got it. Once we get it in the next three quarters a mile, it's something different. 00:21:59 Speaker 3: You know, they're like a lota ability zones almost where it's like, uh, the probability there's a bucking here is lower than some of the other stuff. 00:22:05 Speaker 2: But we can't just walk by it right exactly, So you have to like work out your pace of like how long you're going to give each. 00:22:10 Speaker 3: Spot, how long you're going to rattle for, and and then like how the setup works within that, and those are all things we had to work out. 00:22:18 Speaker 2: We were trying to give it. 00:22:20 Speaker 1: We're trying to give it ten minutes starting out, so we would this sounds ridiculous, but we have. We had a lot of country and not a whole lot of time. So and then the investment, like physically to get into the spot was tough enough that you like. 00:22:36 Speaker 2: You almost didn't. 00:22:37 Speaker 1: You didn't want to just be like, oh, we'll come back and get the rest of this tomorrow. You wanted to be like, Okay, we're in here. We're going to be aggressive, you know, we're going to try to get it all. And so we're working through the stuff and we're figuring out. We were like, let's let's give it ten minutes or whatever. 00:22:50 Speaker 2: So we rattle. I wait, you know, ten minutes. So look at my watch. 00:22:55 Speaker 1: It's been five and I'm like, oh, this is terrible, you know what I mean, because it's windy and you don't feel like your sound carrying that great right, that's all this stuff is moving. 00:23:02 Speaker 2: And that's another thing that we kind of adjusted along the way. 00:23:04 Speaker 3: I think that at first we were covering a little more ground, like we would walk further between each rattle spot, and I think we kind of shortened ed this just as long as we kept going. And then also that mattered that we started getting into stuff that we felt a little better about. 00:23:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, and once you start getting over a half mile back, you start to feel even better about there being big gearback. 00:23:27 Speaker 2: Well. 00:23:28 Speaker 3: I think one of the things that happens too is we're sitting there rattling and you kind of like absorb the place that you're in and you think about it, you consider it, and you're sitting there for five or six, seven, eight, nine, ten minutes whatever your internal clock tells you is. I had a my internal clock was like spot on. About eight minutes and thirty seconds in. 00:23:46 Speaker 2: I'd be kind of like looking at you, just like this is kind of feeling it, you know. 00:23:49 Speaker 1: Like I I was struggling probably probably that foamodel. 00:23:53 Speaker 3: Well I always you probably I don't know if you remember or not, but about five minutes in I'd like grown a few times just to kind of try to if there's one out there hung up or whatever bringing in. But back to what I was saying with the like absorbing the atmosphere, you kind of get this feeling for how far you can hear and see. 00:24:13 Speaker 2: Stuff going on. You know, when it's a little bit windy. 00:24:16 Speaker 3: Maybe you just there's like this perception thing of like, oh I can kind of hear those leaves on that oak tree over there rattling around at like one hundred yards, or I can't. And so you know like, oh, on a quiet day, deer quarter ma would be hearing me. I mean I can remember earlier where were we. Oh it was on our one of our earlier trips. I rattled like six hundred and seventy yards from you. I measured it, and You're like, hey, did you just rattle? You texted and like yeah, So, like I think it's probably quite a bit different depending on the conditions of how far your. 00:24:51 Speaker 1: Rattles care and like what again, Like, what's what's going on with the wind. It's not the wind necessarily those deer. 00:24:57 Speaker 2: You know. 00:24:58 Speaker 1: If you know anything about like a microphone that goes on top of a camera, they put this fuzzy stuff on it. It's to keep the wind from just blowing the mic out. Well, deer have that in their ears. Casey told me that one time. I was like, man, that is that's true. Like in the wind, you think you can just talk in the deer stand, but that deer doesn't even hear the wind. Probably most of the time, but he's here, you know, the cottonwood leaves above him more the you know, little grat like like I don't know, it might be like cane, Like, could be cattails right blowing in the wind. It's making the whole time that makes it tough to hear, you know. So that's the actual stuff that you have to kind of keep in mind. Like Casey said, like can I hear those those oak tree leaves at one hundred yards or you know, rattling around or not, because that'll give me a good idea of, you know, what I. 00:25:45 Speaker 2: Should do here. So it also matter on the intensity of the rut too. 00:25:49 Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, there could be deer that can hear you get three hundred yards away, but if it's still kind of like on the early stages of rut, they might not be excited to come check it out. I think Elker a lot like that too, And I think I take a lot of my I've talked about this for a long time, and I think it really does ring true that you need to be able to if you do hunt different species in different ways, you need to be able to kind of like have some crossover and technique and things that you learn from one thing and apply it to other things, and it's kind of a creative process, right, And I've noticed this with elk in Turkey's for sure, where like if you're within a bubble, even an elk that's like not fired up. If you come in there and like pop off a kind of aggressive bugle on a bowl, sometimes he can't help it. He has to just turn around and just try to fight you, even when he wasn't even thinking about it. And so like there's this constant bubble thing that you're working with, and that's like really a constant in calling in general. No matter what you're doing, there's like this there's these different radiuses or radii if we're working on our plurals here of like the effectiveness of a call, yeah, for sure. 00:27:04 Speaker 1: You know it's it's kind of like you think about you think about like electronic calls and the snow goose field. It's like, man, you could sit there and do everything you can with one handheld call all day and you can't get those birds in and then suddenly you get electronic call and it's like you're creating some sort of hype there, you know what I mean, Like and it's and you got to think about the way you're calling, what you're you know, what you're talking to, and what they like, you know. But I do think that like what we were doing was we we started to realize we kind of came to this realization where like ten minutes is what we're gonna give it, because we talked about maybe fifteen or whatever. Well then it was like, okay, ten minutes is too much because I just don't think that. We start thinking, you know, you constantly thinking, right like I said, and you go from well, you know, a deer might come in and hang up and or work slow towards this whatever, and then sudden you're like, you know what, if it's a deer that we're in here to shoot, that's that's in a hard place to get to, that's really far back or whatever. I'm probably not shooting a dink. So we need we're looking for a deer that is going to come in here and try to whoop some tail. So actually I don't really care to see like a thin horn two or three year old come walking in kind of like spooky, you know what I mean, Like we need to see one rush in. That's like I'm fixing a whoop whatever's in here. And so all of a sudden it starts more like we're like, we're in that six to seven minute range before we get out, and we're working further from the back in there, and we're also walking shorter distances. It's getting the covers getting thicker, so we're getting less big timber and more you know, cattails and some of that, you know, other higher stem count stuff, grasses and all that kind of stuff, like things that kind of like take over the groundsel category, you know what I mean, Like those, yeah, like that kind of bushy type stuff, some whippets. Yeah. 00:29:01 Speaker 2: And so. 00:29:04 Speaker 1: We as we're in that, we're also thinking, well, sound's gonna travel a little less, it's gonna eat those you know, those bushes are gonna eat up some of the sound. So instead of walking fast two hundred yards and then walking slow fifty and then calling, we're now walking fast eighty to one hundred, walking slow thirty forty fifty and calling. 00:29:23 Speaker 2: Okay, let's slow that down and explain that just a little bit more. 00:29:27 Speaker 1: So, especially in the big timber, there's lots of leaves in the ground. It's kind of and any dead fall makes it very loud. Right, there's three of us walking, so we're walking fast to cover ground because we know that that first one hundred yards, if we were heard by deer, that's the target deer, then it would have come in. And if it didn't, since it didn't, we know that we can pretty much just blast through that first one hundred yards or so, and then then you kind of see the habitat, you see what you're working with, and you go, Okay, it's probably deer here, might not could have hurt us, So let's slow down. And then you slow down and then you make a call once you get to a spot that you feel like you've got some shots and you're also calling a good cover. And that was the idea is like there's things where there's times when it's like, I have no shots. It's so thick right here. There could be a buck right next to us, but I have no shots. I got to get to that next opening thirty yards away or whatever. So anyway, that's kind of how we would cover. Can you explain our set up a little bit when we did stop? Yeah, So the whole idea for us. Most of the time we tried to set up this way, we would have the caller would be upwind of the shooter, So we put KC upwind of me at least not necessarily dead upwind. I mean that would be a good thing probably, but like somewhat up wind right. 00:30:50 Speaker 3: Well, actually dead up wind would put you behind me in the direction we were working in this situation kind of, so oftentimes you're at like a sixty degree from me, like kind of like a like you were running point pretty much like flanking, Like you're off my left shoulder most of the time, which would make if a deer is going to circle down wind of the rattling, which they almost always do. You know, the biggest of bucks will even do that, right, They want to they want to know who that is. 00:31:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're seen with their nose for sure. And so the thought is. 00:31:28 Speaker 3: There's again back to some bubble talk here, but there's like a bubble that a buck's going to walk around that to smell it. And you cut that distance in half, hopefully with a reasonable shot distance. 00:31:38 Speaker 1: And if you're if you're if you have a decoy, it might be different. Like once that deer visualizes what's going on there, he might just kind of walk to it. 00:31:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about this before. 00:31:47 Speaker 3: It's it's an interesting concept how how deers swapt back and forth from their primary senses because I think that, uh, deer want to use their eyes as their primary sense, but their nose is the most trustworthy. 00:31:59 Speaker 2: Is that if that makes sense? Do you agree with what I'm saying? You know, for sure they want to smell things, but if they can see it, they feel real good about it. 00:32:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I think that I think that that's that's one hundred percent right man. And they can just go back and forth. But we're not going to use a we're not gonna be rattling with the decoy on public and thick. 00:32:17 Speaker 2: It's a good way to get cross booth. So yeah, for sure. 00:32:21 Speaker 1: But anyway, so working through this stuff, working through this stuff, and it's starting to get a little bit darker, Like you can see, it's a cloudy day, so it's getting dark kind of early, you know whatever, and uh, you know, I'll go up to k C and I'm like, hey, what's your exit strategy here? Because we're starting to get pretty far from the truck And I was like, man, some of this thick stuff is so like if you never walked in really thick stuff like if you never walked through a cattail marsh that maybe you might hear Dan Mfault talk about in Wisconsin or whatever. With a headlamp on at night. Dude, you can't see two foot in front of you because everything in front of you is blinding, you know what I mean. And so it's an exposure issue, it is. And so yeah, and you can't see through to that stuff that's a little bit darker. So I'm kind of asking him, like, what are your thoughts because I have some thoughts, but I wanted to see what his thoughts were. And Uh, in typical case fashion, he's he's down for anything, and he kind of doesn't really hadn't really thought about it much because he's just like, yeah, I'll just figure it out later and yeah, if it stinks then and whatever. I'm just gonna keep optous. 00:33:25 Speaker 3: Stratitude that that gets us in trouble sometimes. You if you've listened to episode two of the Element podcast Burning Brownie Points, you'll see where excess strategies aren't always my my forte. But I was just under the assumption we're going to kill something, and that was just gonna be the EXTS strategy. Yeah, well that's the that's the confidence. 00:33:46 Speaker 2: I have on things I feel. I mean, we had a good plan. 00:33:48 Speaker 1: I felt good about it too, but I also was like, we got we got an hour and a half or whatever to think about this before. 00:33:56 Speaker 3: It's at the point where we were like, okay, we haven't rattled in a dinker or nothing. Yeah, and we had spoked like four days. Maybe maybe this isn't gonna work. Maybe we do need to just start being sensible about things. 00:34:08 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:34:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think there's a couple of things why we didn't rattle in a dinker. I think, for one, he's gonna come in slower, especially when you go to doing the hot and heavy that you talk about rattling sequence. And then two maybe you might not even he might not even come into a hot and heavy rattling sequence. It sounds like two four year olds are, you know, going at it. Yeah, and so there's probably a little bit of that. But we hadn't we hadn't rattled anything in We've been doing this for a little bit and we're pretty getting pretty far back in there. We we talked about playing. I'm like, dude, it's gonna be it's gonna be terrible. Case said, no, let's just do this whatever. So we're kind of just like we as we usually do sometimes, and before we can think so we can think about it somewhere, we just kind of like leave it at like, well, you're kind of thinking this, and I'm kind of thinking of this, and we'll try to figure it out. We've still got time, so we start to work ahead again and we're fixing it, you know, trying to find a place to call. It starts getting thick, and I look over at Kse and I'm like, this looks good. I said it kind of quiet or whatever. He kind of caught what I was saying lip reading, you know. 00:35:08 Speaker 3: And we had been seeing a few scrapes along, but that was about it. 00:35:13 Speaker 2: And there's decent. 00:35:14 Speaker 3: Trails through there, and and I have a little bit of a theory here. I think that those deer in that country are having a roam to find. 00:35:21 Speaker 2: Food, but they have some fairly specific betting. 00:35:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that that scrape, those scrapes are very much especially when they're sporadic and they're not like destination. I think that those are very much not time signed. Yeah, And I think that's what we were seeing. But it was enough to get us excited. 00:35:39 Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. 00:35:40 Speaker 1: I mean, you know some bucks are around, right yeah, and uh and then there are a lot of them were open and worked, you know, recently. But I hadn't seen a ton of rubs. Well we're getting this thick stuff. And I'm like, man, I think we saw a little wispy rub or something and it's sort of getting thick. 00:35:55 Speaker 2: And it was. 00:35:55 Speaker 1: It was really what really made me tell k C this stuff looks good. 00:36:00 Speaker 2: Wasn't that. I'm just like, oh, we're in the brush. It's thick. 00:36:03 Speaker 1: It was like, there's really thick stuff right here. And it's I've heard people call it like the softball method, where like as far as you can throw softball, there's another just really thick clump of something. But it was even it wasn't even like that. It was even thicker, but there it was patches of cover, and there would be like some super tall like I don't know, not this, but like Alamo grass type stuff or whatever, like real thick switch grass stuff. And then over here is that you know, whatever lowland grounds a little like bush type stuff, and there'd be a few of those around and then there is like a transition edge and some willows over here, and then there'd be like a big willow, and then there'd be a couple of cottonwoods, and then there'd be and it was like very diverse, right, and lots of just patches of things. And that was what really got me excited, because it was like, man, the thing is like, there is a way through here, there's a transition line, there's an edge here for deer to travel, and there's also at any moment you look over and five ten yards from you is another place that a deer could bed and be in some really thick stuff and then also get out real quick and run. And so I said that, and I bet we didn't walk twenty yards. And there's two mega rubs that are very fresh, fresh right next to each other, kind of point in the same direction, which is the direction we're going. And I was like, oh, this looks awesome. Also, right before that, I think you found a buck bed. 00:37:29 Speaker 3: I'm not a buckbed guy, but I would call this a buck bed. It was a single really big, I mean absolutely a deer bed, and it was by itself. 00:37:39 Speaker 2: And I thought it was neat because it was at. 00:37:41 Speaker 3: The base of one of the bigger trees in the area, and it was on the north northwest side of this tree, which, if you know how the sun works, it's usually like just a little bit south of where we are because where we sit in relation to the equator. 00:38:02 Speaker 5: So that bed is a shady spot, like one of the only like shadier spots down there, because it was like at the base of this tree that recently had leaves on it, and that deer would get afternoon shade right there. 00:38:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so what case is saying is there's a chance this deer found a shady spot on a sunny day a couple of days prior, or day prior and sat there all day. But this isn't necessarily like an habitual buck bed that is used in and out every day. It wasn't bare dirt or nothing like that. So anyway, he finds that we find the two rubs and it's thick and it's great, and we're just like, okay, all we got to do is add some shooting lanes, you know what I mean. So we're like walk a couple probably you know, I don't know, another twenty thirty forty yards or whatever. 00:38:49 Speaker 2: We can see it start to open up. 00:38:51 Speaker 1: Casey's kind of like, hey, why don't you go up there and I'll call right here at the back of this kind of like opening. So we get into some bigger timber, which is what causes the opening. The shade from the bigger trees a lot of times is blocking out some of the sunlight so that the undergrowth isn't super thick, and it's still pretty thick, but like not like it. You know, you can get some shots. So this so happens that my best shooting lanes because there's a really good trail coming right at case on one side, and it's the upwind side. So I'm a little bit like, man, the deer's going to charge right down the trail and I'm not gonna be able to shoot it because it's just kind of sketchy to shoot kind. 00:39:33 Speaker 2: Of towards them. 00:39:34 Speaker 3: For it's a little bit of a safety fact. Yeah, I very much trust you. If you needed to shoot a deer, it's two yards for me, I wouldn't care at all. But like in general, especially when you're filming, it probably doesn't. 00:39:42 Speaker 1: Look very good, you know what I mean, Like I'm just there, it's just not worth even risking you know, like a ricochet off a rib bone or something weird. So I'm just not going to do it. So instead, I'm just gonna cut you off. Make sure that if that deer comes to the trail down the trail at you, that I shoot him at ten yards. 00:39:57 Speaker 3: And here's another thing that we're always thinking about and considering on the stuff. As a caller, I can do this, but really, Tyler is the hunter never needs to backtrack because you've put ground sent down where you're standing, so you need to be constantly thinking about what's in front of you or parallel to you that you can set up on. I think maybe once or twice we backtracked just a few yards, but like you never want to be like, oh, I need to move back thirty yards because that's the better hiding. 00:40:26 Speaker 1: It would be better to think for thirty or forty seconds about what's ahead of you and lose that for your day of calling and stuff, then to leave round scent. And that's a really good point. And so I work up in front of him. But the whole thing is I am cutting him off on that lane. But I'm also for sure because we've been setting up the whole time, right The whole idea is the deer is probably going to end up down wind, so I have to make sure I have shots down wind, and not only that, but to the transition line, which is where I figure most of the deer if they do come in from ahead of us, they're gonna be working down that transition line, or you know, upwind towards me maybe, But like the transition line is a line between big trees and more open understory and very thick stuff that you cannot really run through as a deer. 00:41:19 Speaker 2: You could walk and pick your way through. 00:41:22 Speaker 1: So if a deer was running in, he probably is just gonna be walking down that line, right, So I do have a shot to it. And what I would do when I would set up, I would almost always I would knock an arrow, put my bow down, and I would range all my spots so I range ahead of me. Well, actually that didn't range ahead of me on the trail we're on, but I range a spot in the middle of this opening, and then I range my spot to the down wind side because that's the most important one, and I get forty three yards. But it's a bunch of willow type stuff, like bushy type stuff, and I'm like, you know, there's some discrepancy between what the actual range. I think I got like forty one and forty three a couple of times. So I just told myself, you know, forty three, And you know, you don't want to mark a ton of spots, but you want to mark the main spots that you have and to keep those yardages in your mind. 00:42:13 Speaker 3: So I always am looking for like a landmark that I can recognize quickly in like an intense moment. 00:42:21 Speaker 1: I use trees most of the times, but like, the problem is that transition line didn't have any big trees on it, buddy, And so I'm just like, okay, the wall of willows is forty three yards. So the next thing I would do is I would pick up my bow and I when I would give KC a thumbs up, he would start rattling. And when he started rattling, I would I would start kicking leaves out. Because what I really was doing was I mean, I'm making it sound like two bucks are fine dragging her feet around whatever, you know, and doing some stuff. But what I really the idea of what I'm doing is I'm in a big old dirt spot. Because you might have to shift your feet. You know, you got to do your shot starts with where your feet are. And so like if a deer comes in straightforward down the trail that's coming towards KC, you know, I would need to be ninety degrees different than I'm shooting down wind, So I need to I want to be able to do that without making a sound, so that the deer is looking at k C instead of me ideally, right, Yeah. 00:43:24 Speaker 3: So I thought that was next level too. That's good stuff, I get. Yes, thanks man. You know, it's one of the first things my dad ever taught me growing up deer hunting was you walk up to the tree and then you rake all the leaves out off the ground and you sit down right there, Yeah, where you rake those leaves out. And I think he might have said it was because sometimes the copper heads underneath the lee probably for the noise thing too. 00:43:48 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, I mean, and that's so that was what I was doing every time. And so I do that, and I'm kind of and I'm also kind of making a scene, like I'm smashing some sticks early on and stuff, you know, like you don't want to be up there dancing around when guy rattling has been doing it for thirty seconds forty five seconds, right, you want to do it in the first fifteen seconds or so, because you start dancing around looking at sticks on the ground trying to see which ones you can break, and something runs in right to you, you know. So I do that stuff early, get my spot dug out, and then if I wanted to make some more noise, I would kind of kick some leaves around and stuff, but I would try to do it with my eyes up. And so I'm sitting there and it's been maybe fifteen seconds or something. I turn around to Casey Knight, who's running our camera, and I say, hey, turn that gop on, because I had it hung behind me. 00:44:37 Speaker 2: I saw you do that. Then I was like, he's feeling good. 00:44:41 Speaker 1: I was feeling pretty good, you know, And I thought, you know what, we'll get a little b roll or whatever. 00:44:46 Speaker 2: But this is a good spot. 00:44:47 Speaker 1: So I haven't turned that camera on, and I don't know, it didn't seem like very long at all after that, maybe fifteen seconds, and you know, I start kicking some leaves and I look up, or I mean I'm looking up, but I start kicking some leaves and something catches my eye down the transition line, probably like I don't know, seventy yards up in there, and it's the only thing I can see, really is just a big old high main beam flash through this gap and this stuff stick, you know, flashes through. I turn around immediately and there's a bunch of thick stuff that he's gone behind, and he was running and I turned around to KC. I'm losing my mind now. I watched it on video and like, dude, it wasn't a second. I don't think it felt like five seconds easy when it was happening, because I look back at KSE and he's like looking off to the left, kind of the down wind side, just kind of like rattling, kind of in the zone, you know, not really thinking, probably a whole lot other than here's how I'm rattling. 00:45:45 Speaker 2: Here's what I'm trying to do. Dude. 00:45:46 Speaker 3: It's it's real dumb, But like I put a lot of thought into my rattling. 00:45:51 Speaker 2: Like I am in the I am the two bucks, you know what I mean. 00:45:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, I'm trying to look and listen and then do that paying a lot of attention to you. 00:46:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so and you're what are you think? You're twenty yards behind. 00:46:04 Speaker 2: Twenty yards behind you almost right on the dot. 00:46:06 Speaker 1: And and dude, he's not paying attention for a full three quarters of a second. I'm telling you, it felt like I heard you obayah, that's how loud. 00:46:15 Speaker 2: Because I had to. 00:46:16 Speaker 1: I had, like, I feel like I had to get your attention because this year is at seventy running, you know what I mean. 00:46:21 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm losing. I'm flapping my hands like I don't know. It looked like my. 00:46:25 Speaker 1: Sister when she was a little toddler, like losing her mind, you know, And I'm just like, finally he looked, dude, finally he looks. 00:46:33 Speaker 2: After point seven to seven seconds. 00:46:35 Speaker 3: You know, the GoPro of this is gold and y'all gonna love it so much. 00:46:40 Speaker 2: Just it's the same thing. 00:46:42 Speaker 3: Y'all might remember this one time that Tyler and I were hunting some public in Texas and uh, he said, buck right here, don't move, do not move. 00:46:54 Speaker 2: I got you. You know, I won't move, I promise, you know. But it's just because his intensity that's intense. 00:47:00 Speaker 1: It's because my camera, guys, that's what it is. Like you can I'm telling you can say, hey, don't move. They think, like after fifteen seconds, they think you've forgotten to tell them to move, so they're just gonna move. And I'm like, no, I will tell you please don't move. So instead I just go do not move, as in this yeer is right here and looking at it order. 00:47:20 Speaker 3: So yeah, but anyway, that was the intensity that you had, Oh for sure, you know, I'm like losing it. 00:47:28 Speaker 1: And finally like, I guess you heard me turn around. And here's why I'm really glad that I did the clearing of the leaves, because I turn from I turned almost a one eighty I bet you I turn one hundred and twenty degrees or one hundred and fifty to forty degrees to get your attention, because I'm going from all the way facing forward to all the way facing backwards towards you to try to get your attention and so and then shift my feet all the way back around. And I can do it all quietly because I don't have any And so when I turn back around, I don't see the deer for a second, and then I see him and he runs up to this my shooting window that's on the down wind side and stops behind a big log and I can I can only see like his legs. And I'm telling Casey not I'm telling him who we call Cupcakes. So if you hear me say cupcake, cup yeah, our cuppy. It's easier to say that than it is to say Casey, because I'm used, so you're saying case and both of them probably feel like I'm saying their name. So I tell Cuppy, I say, I say, don't move, and I probably said do not move too, you know, But I'm like, you know, telling him don't move because the deer is staring right and you just never know when a camera guy looks down to mess with his dumb settings, you know or whatever, because he wasn't prepared and uh, and then he's he looks up and is trying to find the deer and is moving and stuff, and this deer is staring right at him. At forty something years he was prepared. He was prepared. He was actually running the camera when all this happened. Uh, and it was it was this is all recorded on two different cameras and so anyway, I tell him don't move, Well he doesn't move. 00:49:10 Speaker 2: There's enough wind to help us out. 00:49:11 Speaker 1: That's a good thing, right, And that dear stairs is for quite a little second. I mean, I'm sure it's one of those things where it's like four seconds, but it felt like, you know, fifteen or whatever. 00:49:22 Speaker 2: And whenever you. 00:49:25 Speaker 3: Got my attention, I stopped rattling yes, and I wanted you to do if that was the right move or not. But I felt like I saw that buck for a second when you said that, and I I could tell that he was coming in hot, and I was like, Okay, he's curious enough to where like if I stop, he's still. 00:49:45 Speaker 1: Going, Yeah, he's gonna make it right. You don't need to like convince him anymore. It's like when you got a group of mallards that are working and they cup. You don't just keep calling to them, you know what I mean. You just let them. Let them do the thing. Not always right, but most of the time, when you got birds coming at you, that's when you don't really want to call to it. 00:50:01 Speaker 3: It's kind of like that thing that you uh, you said that your college coach used to tell you. It's just like be right, yeah, you know, you don't know if the if you need to break left right or whatever, but just do. 00:50:11 Speaker 2: The right one. 00:50:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like I think that once you spend a lot of time in the woods, you have to get good at that that instinct thing of just like do the right thing. 00:50:20 Speaker 2: And I can't tell you what's going to be the right thing, and certain that you got to you. 00:50:22 Speaker 1: Gotta do the right And it was exactly what I want to. I was thinking the same thing. I was like, he's coming, just be quiet and he will make his way in here. 00:50:30 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:50:51 Speaker 1: And so he stops and he's probably I'm guessing he's probably fifty maybe maybe fifty and and so I thought, he's gonna sit here and stare for a second. 00:51:03 Speaker 2: He's got a big old log in the way. I can only see his. 00:51:06 Speaker 1: Uh, his feet, And I started going, you know what I'm gonna. I'm gonna arrange those that that transition line again just to make sure, because I know he's going down and I just wanted to make sure. So I like, it's right here on my chest. I reach down and slowly pull it up, keeping an eye on and then I ride up the willows boom, I get forty three again confidence builder, and uh, I put it down and he starts. Hey, he kind of takes off kind of jogging again, and it's going through my gap and I mack him twice with increasing volume, and he does not stop. 00:51:40 Speaker 2: And I have to. 00:51:40 Speaker 1: I mean, the wind's getting it pretty good. I have to bound here, yell and mac at him. And he stops on the on the very edge of my window kind of and uh, I put you know, I had drawn back already as soon as he took off running. I draw back and then mac. So that's something that I think a lot of guys sometimes don't understand, is you'd like to make it full draw if possible. And so I do get him to stop on that third one, and he looks back at me. First time he's even heard a sound from where I'm standing. And I'll be honest, as I'm waiting on him to stop and macking him, I'm not even looking through my peep, So I have to like really focus to pull my peep in. This all happens in a split second, right, but like it takes a second for me to like pull my peep into my face. And I see that that's the first thing I do. And then I put the pin on him and I take the extra second because I messed up last time I was in South Dakota and we talked about on the podcast. Messed up a very easy shot. So I've been talking to myself a lot since then and telling myself, hey, take the extra second, Just take the extra second. Don't be a full don't be you know, ridiculous, and it'll be such a better celebration and such a better night if you do that. So I take the extra second. I settle my pen, and I have to. Actually there's some brush in between me and him that's not fully enveloved, like not fully high enough to like cover his all his vitals, but it goes about halfway up his body at forty yards shooting a five hundred grand earrow or so, I felt pretty confident in putting the pen in the brush low enough in his vitals, you know, knowing that I am essentially dropping it over. And I don't suggest this unless you I'm not trying to like put myself on a. 00:53:33 Speaker 2: Pestle at all. 00:53:34 Speaker 1: But I shoot a lot, and I think I actually do a lot of testing in my yard of like how far is the drop if I shoot my thirty yard pen at forty like if for whatever reason. Say, my forty breaks on the planes and I and I that night, i'm, you know, shooting a twenty and a thirty, and a deer comes in at forty and I have to make a split decision. Do I know if that oh it drops nine inches or whatever, you know, Like I know stuff like that occasionally, and I put myself into situations like that in the yard. So I shoot with my pen in the brush and it looks the arrow's flying so good man, and it I mean, it looks like just money. The arrow's flying like. I don't feel like it had any like warp or anything to the arrow. The fletchings just felt like they were just spending, like a perfect spiral. 00:54:25 Speaker 2: Dude. 00:54:27 Speaker 1: And it hits, and it looked low at first, but. 00:54:35 Speaker 2: It looked good. 00:54:36 Speaker 1: It just looked a little low maybe, And I thought, maybe that's got to be a hard shot still, and the deer takes off. The sound that it made was awesome when it hit. I thought that sounded good. Yeah, it sounded like a watermelon getting shot with an arrow and then echoing. 00:54:51 Speaker 2: You know, it was awesome. Well, I. 00:54:55 Speaker 1: Turn around just in disbelieve f right in case he's like you know he's he's pumped, but he's not like losing it. 00:55:02 Speaker 2: And can I tell my perspective? Yeah, yeah, tell me. 00:55:08 Speaker 3: I don't mean to interrupt you much, but I was there too on this one, so like, I have a different thing going on a little bit. I only saw the flash of that deer for about you know what, was literally probably half a second. And that was at the same time, right after Tyler had told me there's a buck, you know, whenever he kind of freaked out. I don't have enough time to get perspective on this deer to know what's actually going on. 00:55:32 Speaker 2: And I just see him flashby. 00:55:37 Speaker 3: I see he kind of has a tall rack, and I thought he was a younger deer just from my just initial and I think I'm kind of expecting younger deer just to come to rattling because there's just more of those out there. And then also I don't know, I just like I just didn't feel like it was a deer you're going to try to shoot and then I see you I lose him as soon as like when you couldn't see him the first time, I couldn't see him at all, and I never saw him again. I didn't know what he was doing. I was just kind of like watching you pretty much because I couldn't see anything over that direction. There's a layd down over there, I think, or something I couldn't see through, and I'm seeing you like lock in, be real serious. And then I see you draw, and my first instinct was like, oh, I guess he's just drawing in case like something like he doesn't shoot this deer there's another deer or what. I didn't know what. And then when your poe went off it, I was so surprised. I was so surprised that you were shooting and kind of thought I shot it. 00:56:40 Speaker 2: Two year old. 00:56:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought you shot it two year old. I was like, oh, I guess he was excited to shoot that, you know. And I was happy for you, yeah, but I was just I was kind of in disbelief. And then the first thing you tell me is like it might be a little bit low or something like that. 00:56:54 Speaker 2: So I'm instead of like, I don't ever want to over celebrate the situation. 00:56:59 Speaker 3: Yet at last year in South Dakota, I did over celebrate, and I felt really bad about it, mostly because Tyler. 00:57:07 Speaker 2: Called you out on it. But I think. 00:57:13 Speaker 3: I'm joking, but like, uh, in that situation, it's kind of like we had a thing we'll go we'll tell you more about in a different podcast. But there's like this initial establish what happened and then problem solved, you know, and so so Tyler establishes it might be a little bit low. 00:57:28 Speaker 2: So we start. 00:57:29 Speaker 3: Thinking about, like we go right into what do we hear? You know, what, what did you see? 00:57:33 Speaker 2: What's there? 00:57:34 Speaker 1: Before we even got together, Case's over there and I'm watching him because I'm not sure what kind of al genetics you have, but dude, you can hear stuff. 00:57:45 Speaker 2: Dude, like he's over here. 00:57:48 Speaker 1: I mean he kind of the deer disappears, and I think Case gets a look again, see I didn't see. He kind of gives me like a half saw him, you know, and then he gives it. He kind of puts the hand by the ear like I can hear him, and he's like, I'm just looking at Case and I'm just getting. 00:58:03 Speaker 2: The report, you know from him. 00:58:04 Speaker 3: I think it's silly, but when you cup your hand by your ear, you can hear more. It's more directional too, So if you know where that deer went, you can cup it towards. 00:58:11 Speaker 2: That well, he was like, I don't know. 00:58:14 Speaker 1: The first thing he said was like maybe crashing or something like that, and then you said something like I think I heard him cough, and then you were like, I think I heard a piece of blood fall to the ground. And I was just like, hey, I like all these lads, man, that's cool anyway. 00:58:29 Speaker 2: I think. 00:58:30 Speaker 1: I was like just listening to him, and he's like, I'm like, man, I mean I felt like I hit him good, maybe a little low, and it sounded great, you know, and I can't believe that happened. Well that was crazy, man, And I'm like, I'm telling k C. I'm like, I think this year is like four at least, man. I mean, because because here's what I saw whenever he came through the gap was gigantic neck. And I was just like, man, this is a mature deer, right, That's what at least I thought I saw when he was coming through. And so I'm like, I think he's like four whatever. Well, you know, case I could tell he was kind of hesitant to like agree with that, you know, and I was like, man, I don't think I messed up. 00:59:10 Speaker 2: I think this is a big deer. 00:59:11 Speaker 1: And then I start worrying because I was like, I'm sorry, Well, I started worrying because I was like, man, I don't think he had both sides. 00:59:18 Speaker 2: Of his rack. 00:59:18 Speaker 1: I never saw the other side of his rack. And so then that's when I was like, I asked you. It was like, I don't did he not have both sides of his rack? Because I could tell you a little bit hesitant and you're like, no, he had both sides. I was like, oh, that's a relief, you know, not that it would have been, you know, the end of the world or nothing, but I do like to shoot full of rack deer, you know. 00:59:37 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:59:38 Speaker 3: And in fact, if you go back to uh the season playlist in twenty eighteen, you can see. 00:59:43 Speaker 2: A time where Tyler passes a half eighteen mab he was eighteen and. 00:59:50 Speaker 3: He passes a half rack, so he could shoot a full rack and probably on my suggestion to then we end up with no deer. 00:59:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll happen, it'll have That's all right. 01:00:01 Speaker 1: But yeah, So anyway, so we're we're kind of going back and forth, and was there something you wanted to add? 01:00:06 Speaker 2: I kind of stole the story. 01:00:07 Speaker 3: I just wanted to give my perspective on how I couldn't see in what I heard. 01:00:11 Speaker 1: Yeah, So we were like, hey, it's getting a little bit darker. We got, you know, only so much time left here to figure things out in the in the daylight. So let's, you know, let's go over there. And Case he was like, you want to find the arrow? And I was like, yeah, let's do that. I was like, you can. 01:00:27 Speaker 2: Tell a lot from an era, yeah, for sure, like that, and. 01:00:31 Speaker 3: Usually you're pretty safe even on like a marginal hit to go to the era. 01:00:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, unless it's like super marginal and you're thinking about getting a dog, then just get out. Yeah, you know. 01:00:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, So we went, we went over towards we you know, we kind of gather ourselves, talked about it, whatever, went over there towards the arrow, and we kind of get there and I don't know, you know, it's very thick in there. So I'm trying to figure exactly where he was. And about that time, Case he's like, hey, I see blood. I don't see the arrow, but it looks good. I look over at it and it's like it's like frothy, and there's some other stuff there and there's kind of like some like a little bit darker and a little bit lighter blood, and I'm like, oh, this is good. And so we started getting hype, you know, but I'm like, I still want to find this arrow or whatever. So we're looking around and I kind of getting back in that thick stuff that I had ranged at forty three. By the way, I shot my forty yard pen just you know where I thought it should be. 01:01:25 Speaker 2: You just held it dead on. I'd held it exactly where I thought it should be. Yep, you didn't name low I aimed. 01:01:31 Speaker 1: I tried to aim, you know, bottom third what I thought, But I also couldn't see his brisket exactly. 01:01:40 Speaker 3: While we're talking about aiming this, I'm going to ask you some questions a little bit because you have a little bit different aiming philosophy than I do. And I'm actually trying to adjust mind just to touch. But you tend to aim for the jump, the string jump, yes, And so I want to know if you calculated in your mind, I'll hold my forty dead on forty three will be just a little bit lower than that, or if you were just like forty's. 01:02:04 Speaker 2: Gonna be good enough. I'm gonna just put it where it needs to be. 01:02:06 Speaker 1: That's that was more. My philosophy is forty is gonna be good enough. And I also I could see I could see most of him, but I couldn't see his briskets. So but my right now, my like from thirty out, my bow shoot's just to touch low my side tape's not exactly dead on. So anyway, I I go to looking for that arrow and I find it finally and it's it's you know, passed right through where he was standing. And I find it, and I use, I've got white fletching. I like, I kind of like white fletchings. They're not super they don't have a lot of pizzazz, and they don't say a whole lot about you, and they don't look that cool, but they give you a really good idea of what blood you're actually done. 01:03:01 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:03:01 Speaker 3: I used to shoot white fletchings a lot, and this year on one set of arrows, the ones I shot this trip, they're orange, and I think those look cool and you look sick. 01:03:10 Speaker 2: You can see them. 01:03:11 Speaker 3: Good in footage actually, like better than white, I think, because there's a lot of especially when you're and when I say see them good at footage, are not saying so that the audience has a better experience. 01:03:19 Speaker 2: It's for like reviewing the shot. 01:03:21 Speaker 3: And so I like the orange because there's not a lot of orange out there, at least compared to like white, because there's a decent amount of whites in the woods. But I'm with you having white on your Like I almost would like to at least have a white rap or something, or. 01:03:36 Speaker 1: Even like an odd fletching if you're shooting three fletchs or whatever. Pretty pretty snazzy. Yeah. So but I think that, you know, that's a good thing. And that said, I'm shooting white fletchings. I pull the arrow up and it it is the pink that you want. 01:03:52 Speaker 2: That's right, you know what I mean? And Case like. 01:03:55 Speaker 1: Starts like, I mean, before I can even say anything, He's like, that's good. He's like, he's like, we're fixing to find this deer real quick, you know, dude. 01:04:03 Speaker 3: It feels so good, dude, be like, oh, we're about to find it. It's the best, dude, And so we h we grab that. I put it in my in my quiver. 01:04:11 Speaker 1: Actually took a couple of pictures because we decided to actually spend a few minutes just giving him a little bit extra time. 01:04:18 Speaker 3: Part of that probably is because of my Nebraska experience where I smoked it deer, yep, and it still took him a little while to die. And I think that the unless you see him fall and expire, the thirty minute rule was good. 01:04:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's kind of what we were doing. 01:04:31 Speaker 1: So I told Cuppy to take some pictures of me and k C, which you may or may not have seen on Instagram. 01:04:38 Speaker 2: They're just you know, bro pictures of us. 01:04:40 Speaker 1: Holding the arrow and some rattling horns or whatever, you know, just some of my favorite pictures we got already, i mean since since we've been started hanging out and anyway, So we're taking those pictures and we're kind of just like standing there talking a little bit about what happened and everything, and then we're looking kind of looking ahead without like walk and seeing if there's any blood. And there was blood. That blood was actually within like three yards of where I shot him. So that's another really good feeling, right, which is a really I mean, you have your struggles every once in a while when you shoot playing bee spots with the mechanical big mechanicals, but that's a good reason to shoot a mechanical because there was a mondo hole and blood immediately right, So we start finally, we kind of give ourselves a little bit of time. It's starting to get darker and we start to track, and I kind of like, it's so thick in there. I'm kind of losing blood right, Like, it's on all different levels of vegetation. 01:05:41 Speaker 2: That's the thing. It makes it tough. 01:05:42 Speaker 3: If he was bleeding on a white carpet, you would think, oh my gosh. But whenever it's hitting, you know, from three feet down, there's arbitrary number three hundred pieces of junk for the blood to get on. 01:05:55 Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to follow every once more for sure. 01:05:58 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of like, I'm kind of worried, and I'm I'm the leader, so I'm staying on the blood. Right, you don't wanna you don't want to walk ahead unless you see blood. 01:06:05 Speaker 2: Well, of course, sorry I'm interrupting. 01:06:09 Speaker 3: If you have blood tracking with a buddy and it's his deer, let him take the lead. 01:06:14 Speaker 2: Don't hopscotch you, Mike. 01:06:16 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not a guy who has too much hostility in the woods as I like you for it to be a fun, friendly thing. But there's honestly not many things that will make me not want to hunt with you again. Then if you like go stomping up the place I'm trying to blood trail, Yep, it makes me. 01:06:32 Speaker 2: Mad, I know, I'm telling you. 01:06:34 Speaker 1: And uh, we've had we've you've had a you've lost a deer because of that before. 01:06:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, I shot a deer liver and and a guy will just say, uh, decided to just go walking off even though we said we're gonna hold off, and he bumped the deer and we didn't find it. 01:06:47 Speaker 1: Yep, he bumped it like one hundred yards ahead of us and we didn't even see it, and he saw it, and yeah, not good. But anyway, so we're we're walking, you know, and uh, you know the there's a guy holding the camera behind me and then a guy that has the most elive anybody I've ever met, and and we walked, you know, we're trying to I'm trying to blotche the say. I'm kind of worried because I'm like, man, all of a sudden, it's like not a bunch of blood after like fifteen yards, you know, walking Like what's going on in case he's like, ah, he's just he's just you know, in between heartbeats or whatever, you know, and all of a sudden he's like Tyler. And then Casey starts losing it, like like I can't believe that the deer that we're looking at is the deer that I shot. It's all of a sudden, it's not a two year old anymore, you know what I mean. It's like grown two years in a matter of you know, fifteen minutes or whatever. And he this deer didn't run thirty yards probably, I mean we're quite thirty yards. 01:07:49 Speaker 3: I mean when I saw the flash, it might have been his dying leap. 01:07:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he like he leaped over this thing we found at one point, this big you know, bush bushy thing and this layover or whatever. He like leaps over it. And then I bet he wasn't ten yards from there, you know what I mean. And it just like dead on his feet, you know, dead on his feet is basically what he was. I mean, he just fell over, straight over. It wouldn't nothing to it, no bed and it wouldn't bed it nothing like that, you know, And it was just like wild, dude. But like I when I saw him and got an actually good look at what it was. Because I knew he had like the typical eight point rack on the on the left side. I didn't know if he had was anything different or even if he had another side at the time. I shot him right, and I knew he had a decent looking beam and it was. But the main thing I saw when when I first saw him was that that beam was high off his head and that's what made me know he was a shooter. That along with his neck size, that's what I mean. I saw those two things, and then it was just I was dial on his shoulder from there pretty much, you know. Yeah, And when we got to him, I kind of lost it. 01:08:57 Speaker 2: Man. I was like, I was like the boy came in here for yeah, buddy, swamp monster. It was awesome. You know. 01:09:04 Speaker 3: We don't get the opportunity to weigh a lot of our deer on the hoof, hardly any of them actually, well not on the hoof because that mean they're still live. 01:09:12 Speaker 2: But you get what I'm saying, live weight. I would love to. 01:09:15 Speaker 3: Know what this deer actually weighs because of inestimation stuff, you know, but he's probably fifteen percent bigger body size than the deer I shot like he's a mando. 01:09:26 Speaker 1: I took a picture of laying beside him. He's bigger than I am. I wait, easy way to twelve right now? You know he's I mean, he's he's like you know how they say big bass is shaped like a football. They don't normally say that about deer. This deer was shaped like a football. I mean he was like huge belly. His belly was so big, dude, I mean, I don't think I've ever shot a deer with a belly this big. I can almost guarantee you I haven't. 01:09:54 Speaker 2: It was awesome. 01:09:55 Speaker 3: Their body conditions really good too, because it's early rut ye and so like they're just at and he's just down there pretty they don't got that broken up or anything, you know, like tell us more about. 01:10:07 Speaker 2: What kind of rackets year. 01:10:08 Speaker 1: I mean, and this is you know, the diversity down there in that plant life that we're talking about is a big part of why this deer probably is so healthy, right, like just eating whatever he wants. He's got to pick off anything he wants to eat down in there, and he's essentially would you say, at two hundred and fifty pound deer probably. 01:10:29 Speaker 2: Two hundred and fifty plus. 01:10:30 Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard to say I'm better at judging wade of pigs than i am deer. Yeah, because I've shot a variety of weights of hogs. But you know, in Texas growing up, all the deer were smaller bodies, you know, and then you start going north, You're like, wow, those are a big body. 01:10:45 Speaker 2: Then you go even further north, You're like, wow, that's a huge Yeah. 01:10:48 Speaker 3: But I mean he's he's one of the two biggest deer I've ever seen. I think I think the my Oklahoma buck truck deer was insanely huge, uh, especially for where we were at the country, being that far south. 01:11:00 Speaker 2: He was just you I think you've. 01:11:02 Speaker 3: Described him as like a Shaquille O'Neil type, just genetic freak, you know. And then this deer is just a full bodied, healthy, mature South Dakota buck and they're i mean every bit. 01:11:12 Speaker 2: Of two fifty. Oh. Yeah. 01:11:13 Speaker 1: I mean he was huge and his rack is basically which I think this is why Ksey didn't know what he was at first, but he's he's at most fifteen inches wide, maybe not very wide, it's probably fourteen something and something some change wide deer, and I think case got a head on look at him, and he's but his main beams like go out to the tip of his nose, long beams, and he's got you know, probably ten inch G two's. I know one of his G three's is nine just because I have, like from my left hand, which is my hand that's not got a broken pinky, I can stretch almost exactly nine inches from pinky to thumb. So he's uh, he's a got a nine inch G three And then I think it's his Uh his right side has a hook on the base of it, right. 01:12:14 Speaker 2: I can't remember. 01:12:15 Speaker 1: He's got a I got two inch hunk or whatever on one of his bases. His bases are awesome. He's got just decent brows. It's not like crazy good. It's not small. 01:12:24 Speaker 3: Uh. 01:12:24 Speaker 1: And he's got a small like probably one one and a half inch G four on one side too, And. 01:12:31 Speaker 2: Uh, it's so cool. 01:12:33 Speaker 1: But his I mean for a for a November second deer or whatever, his rack like has these spots where in the crook of the main beam where it goes right where it goes from going up to turning forward and then like around some of his bases in certain spots, he's got these rub spots. You can tell he's just putting in work on trees and it probably is what created those two rubs that were, you know, not far from us at the time. And he also died right next to a rub as well. Yeah, that was cool, which is probably when he made as well, you know, potentially, but he had definitely been rubbing some stuff, like his those inside crooks were like white compared to the rest of his antlers because of how much he had rubbed already at you know, on November second. So anyway, I just it was so awesome, dude, didn't like I started thinking about it. Its very thankful for my friends, man, Like I get to recoup some of that and relive some of that through video because of Cupcake, and I get to I get to shoot the deer because Casey's you know, willing to go way back in some nasty stuff and Ron for me. 01:13:37 Speaker 3: Dude, I was like worried I was gonna miss it. 01:13:41 Speaker 2: But I appreciate that, man, I mean, especially since. 01:13:46 Speaker 3: I was already tagged out that I couldn't imagine a better thing to be doing right then, dude, It's November. 01:13:51 Speaker 2: Dude. It was tiring to pack him out there, it was. 01:13:53 Speaker 3: And that was two of three in three days. I don't know, that's all I'm gonna say. 01:14:01 Speaker 2: The historic So I don't though. It's just you know, it's one of the coolest experiences of had in the deer woods. Yeah. Uh. 01:14:10 Speaker 1: And also just a beast of a deer like the whole time before we started really working on him. The whole time, I'm like, I don't really need another shoulder mount, but this is a mando and the way it happened, and the memories when I look at that buck that I'll have probably are worth it, you know what I mean. 01:14:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pretty slick. 01:14:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you don't want a shoulder mount him, I'll use him frat landlers for sure, because. 01:14:37 Speaker 2: He's got his handlers set up real good for that. Yeah. They keep them times out of your fingers, you know. So a couple of things I want to ask you some questions about. 01:14:48 Speaker 3: Is that strategy something that you would use around the country in different scenarios or different uh, you know, habitat types. 01:14:55 Speaker 2: For sure, dude, for sure. 01:14:57 Speaker 1: I mean I'm probably not going to use that strategy wide open country as much. I would would I would use the strategy, but I would have the rattle the guy that's rattling way further behind me, Yeah, I would. I mean I would probably put that guy seventy or eighty yards behind me instead of twenty. I think that that's that's the idea. Is the thicker the cover, the further the rattler probably needs to be from you. Yeah, And then the thick you mean closer, the closer yeah he needs to be so yeah, I mean I mean not necessarily, but like I do think in thick cover, there's a high chance that dear's just coming too the you know, shortly to the down wind side of that guy that's rattling. I mean he would have been he would have ended up coming down wind of view, probably at like thirty five forty ish if he kept coming. 01:15:45 Speaker 3: He looked pretty far from me when I got that flash of him. That's why I couldn't really tell what he was, because he's probably like seventy five but his but that that line of transition was not far from I mean the same time, I don't know if I would have ever had a shot back over there, maybe. 01:15:57 Speaker 1: Right, But I'm just I'm just saying. I'm just saying that was the trajectory that it was on. So if you were sitting, you know, twenty five yards from you on the down wind side, he would have come right to your lap. 01:16:10 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess my My point is it's good to have the hunter in front and potentially down wind with better shot angles. Like it's not important for me to be able to even see him too much. Yes, it's it's really important for me to be able to call him and you set up where you can shoot. 01:16:27 Speaker 1: I think there's I think there's some some discussion that we could have done to better prepare before. I think the handing hands signal stuff, and also just like uh and maybe in the same same breath here, you know, if a deer's running in, are you gonna you do you want me to stop rattling? 01:16:46 Speaker 2: Or do you want me to keep ratling? You know? 01:16:48 Speaker 3: You know, I think that we did a thing and we got away with something there where, and it's really just God's blessing. But sometimes you know this as playing a dbege Like yeah, you might not be playing a passing offense, but if you just slack up just a little bit, one will smoke you, right, And we kind of slacked up just a little bit there, Like you were saying you were surprised to see a deer come in. We didn't make our set up perfect where you were actually truly kind of downwind of me. 01:17:22 Speaker 2: You were just kind of in front of me or whatever, and so like we were getting lulled a little bit. 01:17:26 Speaker 3: It's probably like the twelfth time, maybe tenth time that we've done a rattling sequence, you know, so like there's a little bit of this fatigue thing, and I think that we do our best to be on point and be sharp, but you know, I think that's just a good constant reminder to make sure if you're doing something it's worth doing right for sure, you know, like don't just just halfway do a rattling sequence or whatever and be like, ah, whatever, it's. 01:17:49 Speaker 2: Not worth doing. 01:17:51 Speaker 3: So another question, are you surprised or you have anything to say about how much cover you need, like concealment wise in the situation like that, or how much movement you can get away with. 01:18:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, I. 01:18:28 Speaker 1: Liked to set up when we would rattle in those situations down in that stuff. I liked to set up right next to a tree, and when we rattled him in because of overhanging limbs and stuff, I couldn't really get right next to the tree that I wanted to be by. I bet you I was three or four yards off of it, at least you were from my vision. My vision, you were out in the open while we were standing. 01:18:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, but that was where I needed to be to get my shots. That's it. End covers all well and good. If you can't shoot it, you might as well be at home. 01:19:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean. And I kind of learned that from you talking about elk hunting and stuff. Yeah, like, uh, don't don't you know, don't stand behind the tree and try to pop out around it. Stand in front of it and just be still, you know, and so and know when you can move right, Like I knew I could move as soon as that deer went behind a big wall of bushes and get your attention to let you know one was coming. And then whenever he stopped, and you know, I could see that there was enough space that I could barely move. I mean, you've got to keep everything in on your core, right in line with your head because he's stopping, because he's trying to see you. 01:19:41 Speaker 2: He's looking, he's trying to figure out where that is. 01:19:43 Speaker 1: You can't move if you can't if you can't see him, then you can't move outside of the line of sight, right, So don't be flapping your arms around. Don't be like adjusting your side out here or whatever like you you know, unless you really know as you can get away with it. I think people misjudge. Here's something you've talked about. You and I have talked about a lot, but you kind of make a funny out of it sometimes. But like, just because you can't see that dear, doesn't mean he can't see you. In other words, when he's standing right behind a seater not moving, huh, you can't see him. Yeah, but guess what, there's a gap in that seater. He's looking right at you, dude, you know what I mean? Or that seater's thin, right, it's not really that thick because it sits underneath tree. 01:20:27 Speaker 3: You have to realize, Oh, Tyler Jones of the Element standing over there, he sees all your movie is like, whoa, that was weird. 01:20:33 Speaker 2: I'm out. Yeah, So you know, I mean I just think that, like. 01:20:39 Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely you know, kept everything in line right there and was able to move and then also knowing like once he takes off, it's time to draw. And I think that the big key to all of it is we almost would not be able to pull that off if there wasn't at least a ten mile an hour wind. Yeah, you know, I mean fifteen is and we probably had fifteen or twenty. You know, that was way better when we were walking through there, though. You noted something about where we were walking. 01:21:04 Speaker 2: Do you remember what it was in regards to wind deer trails that they're going. 01:21:14 Speaker 3: No, it's a sound thing, you said, oh yeah, the yeah, the so we you know, if you wanted to walk on the deer trail then, or if you if you wanted to walk quietly, you walked on the deer trail same amount of leaves as anywhere else, but they have just pashed down. They've padded the leaves down, got off the crunch out of them already. Yeah, it was like probably three times quieter. 01:21:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like I dreaded having to walk, Like there would be a limb that's at like four foot and you're like, I pretty much got to walk around that. I got a backpack on and I can't do it, and you walk around. I kind of dreaded having to walk the two steps around it because it's just like and then you get back on the trail and it's just like you know, and you're like I told Casey, I said, no, wonder you can't hear deer when they're coming in they're walking on trails, you know. 01:21:59 Speaker 3: Yep, A couple I think to keep in mind just for if people are thinking about trying a strategy like this. Well maybe for one, it's all public land or not. It all isn't, but you know, the stuff that is public land is public, so it's your right to do that stuff. I think there's a courtesy thing and just a friendly kindness thing of like, if you know there are other hunters around that maybe aren't doing this kind of stuff, you don't want to push through where guys are. I don't, at least I feel like you're ruining somebody's day and that's not a nice thing to do. But all that men said, if you're gonna do some stuff like this, there's some things to be prepared with, having plenty of food and energy because you're expending energy. 01:22:37 Speaker 2: A lot when you're doing this, Like as soon as Tyler shot that deer. 01:22:40 Speaker 3: This sounds silly, okay, But as soon as he shot the deer, I got out a nutri grain bar or something and ate it because I was like, okay, we're about to do a pack out. I need to get a little bit of something like some fast calories in my body. And I think it helped me. I mean, I think I felt better because I had a little something like that. 01:22:55 Speaker 2: Water. 01:22:55 Speaker 1: Of course, water, lots of water because washing your hands off after and everything. 01:23:00 Speaker 2: Having trash bags or game bags. 01:23:02 Speaker 3: We didn't have game bags because they were wet from my dear the day before, and so that's why I didn't bring them. But I had game bags, and I like them better because you can the difference in trash bag and a game bag outside of like a trash bag holds moisture in and long term there's some negative effects there. Short term, trash bags are fine, but a game bag you can pick up the bag. You don't have to have a hold of the meat or the bone, whereas a trash bag, if you try to pick up the bag, a lot of times it's gonna rip, so you have to like kind of grab the whole thing, and so I like game bags a lot for that reason. 01:23:34 Speaker 2: Also, a triple. 01:23:38 Speaker 3: Check on knives is a big deal because Tom and I were both talking about knives before we I mean, we were going in to kill brother. 01:23:45 Speaker 2: It was going down okay, I I felt great. 01:23:47 Speaker 1: It was one of them times when like you just about are gonna put on some ac DC. 01:23:52 Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Yeah, for sure, And so we're talking about knives and all this, and ends up we only have two of the raised blade type knives, which we made it work fine. I mean, I think we did just find but a stiff shank knife is nice for whenever you're doing some heavy duty stuff. 01:24:11 Speaker 2: And and on that too. 01:24:13 Speaker 3: We don't have a video on it because YouTube's kind of weird about stuff, but I think Randy Newberg does and maybe some others. But gutless method is real handy when you know you're gonna have to quarter up a deer anyways, So look up some videos on how to do a gutless method. 01:24:29 Speaker 2: That's what we did on this deer. Sort of. 01:24:34 Speaker 3: Tyler caped him, so it made it a little different. It wasn't that big of a deal, but then also I wanted to harvest as much harvest as stupid word. I wanted to get as much of the deer fat off of him as I could, and I appreciate y'all letting me do that because it took a little longer. But between Tyler's deer and my deer, we're gonna make a bunch of deer tallow like skin on him and stuff. Stuff you can use to cook with and uh, all kinds of stuff like you can make candles and soaps and make Christmas gifts. 01:25:03 Speaker 2: I think it's kind of cool. 01:25:05 Speaker 1: So I uh, I was just fixing and say, you know Christmas is coming up. 01:25:09 Speaker 2: You know that's right. I'll take some soap. Been kind of tight, you know, So like these gifts that you can make are kind of cool. Guarantee man, hopefully that economy will change though, just my brother. 01:25:20 Speaker 3: But back to like the pack out SPS type stuff, having a good knife, being prepared for success. 01:25:26 Speaker 1: Also, I wanted to say, not just a couple of trash bags, like because what Casey said, they rip right. So ideally if you put a ham in a trash bag, you don't put anything else in there, probably you know what I mean. So think about having we probably had seven or eight of them, you know. 01:25:40 Speaker 3: And think about your distribution of your weight and who all has to do what, and uh, these are good times to not bring excess with you, like in fact, I had too many clothes. 01:25:50 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I never. 01:25:51 Speaker 3: Put on more than a week hoodie the whole time we're down in there, because it was just kind of warm, and you're walking in you're active. 01:25:57 Speaker 2: It's a lot different than sitting in a tree stand. 01:25:59 Speaker 3: But when you're thinking about hams and shoulders and roasts and this and that and the other, you got to think about how you're gonna distribute this between how many guys. 01:26:12 Speaker 2: You have a lot of people. 01:26:13 Speaker 3: If you're doing this, you're gonna have two people, excuse me, instead of three because you're not filming your stuff, by the way, it suggest not, but it just makes things harder sometimes, although it is funda the more people you can involve the better because it's a fun experience. But one hind quarter kind of equals to front shoulders in most cases. And then there'll be a h so that's one, two, three bags right there of meat. So quarter hind quarter, hind quarter shoulders bag, and then the roast bag is about the same amount of weight again, so there's kind of four separate things, and then you have a head and a cape and that's usually just the the hunter's extra burden to bear is kind of how it's you kind of like the unsung or not unsung but like unsaid thing. Right, Like you killed him, You're gonna tote the head out because it's just like a cool thing or whatever, you know, But just something to keep in mind when you're thinking about butchering your deer in the field, like what that looks like, how you should divide things up and be able to tote it out because getting that deer out in one trip was such a big deal. Oh for for a lot of reasons actually, and we talked about this too. You putting a just knocked down shot on this thing, dude, you're such a good shot. 01:27:30 Speaker 2: High envy it sometimes but not in October. 01:27:34 Speaker 3: Well you know, it happens, which is such a cliche thing to say, but cliches are the reason. 01:27:40 Speaker 2: They're true for a reason. 01:27:41 Speaker 3: But like overall, man, you pull off some clutch shots, your decision making ability in those situations is impeccable. But because you smoked him, we didn't have to leave him overnight, and that was absolutely essential because that night it rained, and the road that goes into that place is real muddy, and if you hadn't smoked him, we had to leave him all the night. We couldn't have gotten back in there the next day without getting stuck. I it's like I done that, Holy rots and is wasted or gets eaten, who knows what? Right so like or maybe like somebody else from the element shoots. 01:28:24 Speaker 2: A deer the next day. Yeah, that's right. I mean that that very will might happen. Will might have happened. But overall, men, congrats on that. I know that deer meant a lot to you. Sorry I didn't freak out soon, but I mean it's kind of nice to kind of spread that out a little bit, you know, I was. 01:28:42 Speaker 1: I actually would have rather, I think, had you freak out when we came up to the deer. 01:28:46 Speaker 2: You know what I freaked out more about. I lost my mind almost fell on the deer's raggedde I. 01:28:50 Speaker 3: Was freaking out about his body size. When I freaked out, I saw his rack and I was like, that's a big rag. But then I saw his body and I was like, this is unbelievable. 01:29:00 Speaker 2: He was huge. 01:29:01 Speaker 1: I do you're that was what you were freaking out about because it looked like a football. His belly was just hanging out, you know, like. 01:29:08 Speaker 2: Just it looked like a mules would look like. 01:29:10 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, that's what they're built like mules, just like round and curvy and just strout that. 01:29:18 Speaker 2: So there's so cool, such cool animals. Man, I'm gonna have some good necroes off that guy actorid t you. 01:29:23 Speaker 3: Yeah, look that up to figure out how to take necroes off, because I can tell you when this is because they're Texas deer probably, but then they're not as big. But still I grew up and you just stopped at the end of the backstrap, you know, right there above the shoulder, and there is ten to fifteen to twenty pounds of meat on a deer's neck and the rut that is just some of the most delicious food there is. 01:29:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. 01:29:49 Speaker 1: It's a very good slow cooked And then there's a couple of those roads that Casey knows about that are he says, are maybe worth doing over a backstrap. 01:30:00 Speaker 3: Yeah, well they work like that at least, I mean they're like steak nick loins is what I call them. They're kind of like right there. They almost are like the hang down part of the neck. It's what they much. Yeah, And they're kind of like what makes a buck's neck look big in the in the rut, I think. And if you cut those things, you know, they kind of have a bigger grain. But if you cut them into medallions and you know, kind of just see them on both sides, or pound them out and make chicken fry of them, they're just hard to be. 01:30:33 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, why. 01:30:37 Speaker 1: Does the deers Does a deer's neck actually do the muscles actually grow or is there something else going on there and blood flow or something? 01:30:50 Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know that much about it. It's such a weird thing. I think it has to be growth. 01:30:57 Speaker 3: And here's why I think it's growth is because humans don't have as Our hormone cycle is different than a deer. A human male goes through a twenty four hour hormone cycle and a human female goes through a twenty eight day hormone cycle. Because of the way we reproduce, there are boys and there are girls. Let's establish that right and deer are different. They now supposedly they're capable of. 01:31:28 Speaker 2: Doing it. 01:31:29 Speaker 3: Let's just say that all year long, if like that opportunity presented itself. However, the testosterone thing ramps up in the fall, and that's when you start to see him go from thinncks slick coats to big beefy necks and you know, shed velvet. 01:31:50 Speaker 1: It's just say that, like because like I mean, I barely work out, especially this time of year. I want to work out more, but I had you know, well anyway, I barely work out anymore and I still have pecks. Yeah, how come the deer just goes back to a dagon pencil neck in the summer. 01:32:09 Speaker 3: I think, well, because your testosterone, your free testosterone. This is stuff that I actually have researched quite a bit because for a large persse of my life I considered you getting on steroids. That's a whole other topic. But your free testosterone. As an adult human male, a healthy guy is gonna have somewhere between four hundred and eight hundred and free testosterone. 01:32:31 Speaker 2: Testosterone. 01:32:32 Speaker 3: Low levels of testosterone are a crisis in our country that's not talked about enough. And honestly, I'd like to do an off season podcast completely about this stuff at some point in time. But your levels are going to relatively maintain the same, probably within a variance. 01:32:46 Speaker 2: Of like fifty in these I don't daily you're saying, yeah, yeah, and it's. 01:32:52 Speaker 3: It depends on and maybe even some weekly variants between stress and sleep. Cortisol is terrible for your testosterone, which is the stress hormone. 01:33:00 Speaker 2: Excuse me, by grade my tea must be extremely low then yeah, but so h. 01:33:06 Speaker 3: But your variance is is still kind of like small compared to what a deer is going through. Like a white tailed buck is a beta male for like March through August, and then all of a sudden he's he like gets on a heavy trend cycle or something, you know, whenever he goes into the rut. So I think if you if you've ever seen a guy who's uh, and this is gonna sound a little bit uh what's the right word taboo here for me to say this, But I'm just gonna talk how I talk. If you ever seen a guy do a steroid cycle, right, he will experience some rapid growth and uh in his muscular form. Okay, And so like a guy who does a good cycle should put on like five to seven percent more muscle through that. And so so I would imagine that a deer's cycle that they're going through that testosterone ramps up really increases their muscular volume in relation to the work they're doing. And that's how steroids work, which is I should say, that's how testosterone works, which is the growth hormone that also has some side effects of aggression and some other things that you see in deer. There's more than one form of testosterone too, So I'm gonna start speaking beyond what I actually know in my scope of knowledge. 01:34:29 Speaker 2: So so Brent ran it back in. 01:34:31 Speaker 3: But the deer is getting the testosterone boose at the same time that he's you know how you said he had his antlers all rubbed off. 01:34:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that's his neck muscle. That's what he's using to do that. So I was gonna ask, so he's built. He truly is building his neck muscle. It's not just growing as like a biological thing that happens every year or whatever. 01:34:49 Speaker 3: But testosterone just takes whatever you are and makes you a better version of it. So even if he didn't rub he would have a little bit of added volume probably to his muscles. But between the fighting and the rubbing, he really beefs up. And also protein intake is a huge part of that. And it just so happens that in the fall you get a lot of protein rich stuff out in the world, you know, with like your your forbes kind of come into full development in the in the late summer, you know, so you get like stuff like you know, giant ragweek which is high protein, or maybe some gold. 01:35:32 Speaker 2: Rod, you know, any of these broadery stuff clovers. 01:35:35 Speaker 3: And then not to mention, soybeans, you know, a huge source of protein for I mean, that's why Midwestern deer are the biggest, you know, and just some general environmental quality, but we all know the grain basket, the corn and soybean rotation is what makes giant. 01:35:54 Speaker 2: Bucks it is, man I like, anyways, I just kind of I took it. That's great. Final thoughts about your your experience there, man man I would say that. 01:36:11 Speaker 1: While it was extremely exciting and fun to do, it's also extremely exciting and fun to watch a deer walk in that doesn't have a clue you're there and try to shoot him out of a tree. He stands so much so that at seventeen yards you can just watch the shot. So I would just say that I still would like to kill one out of a tree this year, so hopefully I can't pull that off. But as far as just this whole experience went, man, I mean, you know we I think. I think when we sit around and talking the summer about deer hunting, you know, you you do stuff like this where you're like, man, we should that'd be cool if we did this right. And then when you finally get to put stuff like that plan into action and it works out, man, it's like that's why you dream, man, That's why you dream in the summer and you talk about stuff like that because every once in a while, the all the variables line up so that it makes sense to actually go do that thing. And then you go do it and it's exactly what you thought it was going to be. 01:37:19 Speaker 2: It's it's awesome. 01:37:20 Speaker 1: So uh and just I don't know, having good friends that will help pack out deer with you with your just I was thinking about the whole time. Was walking back. I was like, there's no way I do this without other guys. There's no way I would do this. There's no way I'm going in there. So trying to rattle in a deer. 01:37:37 Speaker 2: You know, I bet you. 01:37:39 Speaker 1: We walked a mile and a half on the way back to get back to the truck. We did a couple of circles up the past up, and I. 01:37:48 Speaker 2: Was like, there's just no way I'm doing this. I'm not I'm at this age. 01:37:52 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do a double pack on a deer that's a mile and a half in somewhere, uh, and be out till midnight. 01:38:02 Speaker 2: Trying to do to hang up a hang up a couple of hams or something. 01:38:09 Speaker 5: That. 01:38:09 Speaker 2: No, it's really I mean, dude, you start. I mean, we were. 01:38:13 Speaker 1: We were out there, man, we were, and it's thick, and it's remote. And then and there was several times when so like this, this this particular the trails that we were on, they run a particular direction, and then every once in a while they bail perpendicularly off and go out of all this brush and stuff right out into some open and so I would be would be walking down these trails and all of a sudden, I'd be like the winds hit me in the face, which means we're not going the right way anymore. And I just did that over and over and again, because these trailers were just all of a sudden kind of peel like gradually, you know, out of there or whatever. It's just dark and whatever. So I just think I was just thinking about that. I was thinking about, Uh, doing this pre on X is not something I would probably do either. I'd go in there with a paper map, but I would be out of there before it got dark, I think. 01:39:05 Speaker 2: And I don't know. It's just like there's there's a lot of particular things that one of these days I'll tell the story. 01:39:12 Speaker 3: Maybe my dad needs to be on the podcast about us doing stuff pretty on X because we had a couple of really late nights. 01:39:19 Speaker 2: Where we were lost and it's a fun story. 01:39:21 Speaker 3: But yeah, this podcast has been long enough, so we won't go into that now. But just so y'all know, this trip and the podcast Realm released is not over. 01:39:33 Speaker 2: That's right. There's there's a lot of cool things, a lot more podcasting to happen. 01:39:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh, I'm pretty excited about it, honestly, Like I said, maybe earlier, maybe it was the last time we did a podcast, but we're you know, we're laying to mean and getting stuff editing edited right now is very tough. On us, and so I know everybody's excited to see this video. I've seen on social there's been a lot of people that are like, can't wait to see the video. 01:40:00 Speaker 2: Whatever. 01:40:02 Speaker 1: I'm hoping to get this thing out in some sort of decent fashion. But I mean, we've got lots of deer videos that are still either edited and coming out or being edited and coming out, So we're gonna do our best. 01:40:17 Speaker 2: Guys. There's just know this. 01:40:19 Speaker 1: If you subscribe to the Element channel, the Element YouTube channel, you're going to see awesome deer hunting videos. It may just not be you know, a day after we produced the video, you know, or produce or go on the hunt. So keep that in mind. But yeah, that's about all I gotta say, man Case, thanks for the help on that, on that deer man Man just from from just the camaraderie, which is huge as a big part of why even left and went up there to this the final you know, uh, grabbing the you know, grabbing the meat and putting it in an ice chests and that kind of thing. 01:40:58 Speaker 2: So pretty fun. But now it's about time for dinner, yep, it is. I'm starving. Actually, it's kind of getting late, so y'all remember to eat before it's too late. To remember this as you yell live in it.