00:00:00 Speaker 1: I'm Casey and you're listening to the Element podcast on the road. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: What is going on, y'all? 00:00:15 Speaker 1: This is the only podcast we are on the road and going home, which feels kind of weird honestly because it's like good rout dates. But Tyler, we've been out of experiencing the good root dates already, so you gotta you gotta like come up forever every once in a while. And then, you know, sometimes when you hunt animals like a wild pig, you get to put five shells in your shotgun and it feels like a lot. But once you've expended those five shells, you have to reload. But then you've got five shells again. And so that's what we're about to do a little bit of. We're about to go home and do a little reloading. But it's because we have been doing some unloading, if you know what I'm saying. 00:00:58 Speaker 2: That's right, lad on them. 00:01:00 Speaker 1: We have, Man, it's been we've had a really really good road trip. Well need much needed line of success, you know, thanks to God for sending in some of our way. We're going to get into some tactics and some thoughts on that, but in general, guys, today we're going to talk a lot about this. 00:01:21 Speaker 2: I would call it the uphill stretch of the rut. 00:01:24 Speaker 1: Not uphill in the sense of like having to work hard for it, but more of like if you look at the rut like a bell curve. We're on the front side of that still. Yeah, and a lot of a lot of the country will be it's not pre rut. It's like Tyler says, early rut, right, Yeah, what does that in general? What's the early rut kind of mean? 00:01:40 Speaker 3: Tyler Man, I would say for a big portion of the country, there's probably about I don't know, two weeks twenty days that people consider kind of prime rut dates where it's like three days, yeah, but just where deer are likely chasing, cruising, fighting and that kind of thing. And the further north you go usually the kind of smaller that window is. And then you know, there's friends in the South that'll be experiencing this in January. So maybe we need to talk about that in January too, But for now, we were talking about earlierut because usually around Halloween is when everybody starts to get excited, and I don't know if that is like an American cultural thing where it's like, Ooh, Halloween's spooky and big bucks are spooky, so we want to shoot a big buck on Halloween or if that date is actually the date, and I feel like it's more the last four days of October. If there's some weather patterns that line up, some things can start to kick off and happen. 00:02:45 Speaker 2: That makes a deer more visible. At least I can get with you on that. We were in Iowa. Was it twenty nineteen? Yeah, we were in Iowa in twenty nineteen. 00:02:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it came as snow seface about the twenty seventh and all of a sudden, just do you run around everywhere? Yeah, yeah, like changed everything. We're having a real hard hunt. We went up there for that late October thing, and for like two or three days it was a terrible hard hunt. And then we left our sets hanging, walked in the next morning there was like three inches of snow on top of my seat pad, and after that it. 00:03:18 Speaker 2: Was just like but man, it was different. 00:03:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you know, we've we're heading home, like Casey said, and we've we've had a really successful trip. There's a couple of bucks and instances and things we want to talk about in regards to the early rut, and then a couple of that we might leave out and talk about on the next podcast, which we're gonna try to get out here pretty pretty quickly as well. So you know, with that in mind, case really kicked this thing off for us as far as success goes, Casey, you just I'm just gonna just say it. You killed two bucks in three days, is that right? That's right? 00:03:54 Speaker 2: Man? 00:03:55 Speaker 1: That was in two different states, a wild time, and and I'm not gonna say I could have done any faster. But the day in between there was a travel day, so you know what I mean, Like it was a it was a huge blessing. And quite honestly, just in those three days, the deer were kind of doing a different thing. And you know, I traveled north some for the second deer, so that might make a difference, too, right, I. 00:04:20 Speaker 2: Think I think it does. I think I think it. 00:04:23 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's a weather thing or not, you know, Like I guess what I'm saying is like if it was thanks to a weather pattern, or if it's a weather thing based off of the northern latitude, you know what I mean. 00:04:34 Speaker 1: Well, it's a thing that I think every year has a theme for me of something I'm learning about the rut and about deer hunting. And the theme this year for me, like the thing I'm interested in, maybe it's not really a theme, is uh frost and how the first frost affects what deer doing. 00:04:56 Speaker 2: And I think it's a big deal. I think that. 00:05:01 Speaker 1: Depending on what the frost is or when the frost hits, like the first hard frost, I think it changes deer patterns a whole lot about what they get to eat, where they get to live, all this stuff because the leaves go to falling, all the broad leaf stuff dies, and so they may really lean heavily on agriculture and it just changes things up a lot. And I think where I'm going with this is that I killed in Nebraska and I killed in South Dakota. Nebraska was the first one and it was pre heavy frost. We just I think, actually last night in Nebraska had their first at least where we were, their first heavy frost. 00:05:43 Speaker 3: The frosted before we left, before me and Cupcake left. 00:05:48 Speaker 2: Was it a heavy one? 00:05:50 Speaker 1: Okay, it seemed like there was still a decent amount of foliage on the. 00:05:54 Speaker 3: Trees, whereas when we went South Dakota it was like pouring off this morning. And when it warmed up, it also did that when it was twenty five about three or four days ago. 00:06:03 Speaker 2: Well went to South Dakota, it was like the lees are off the trees. 00:06:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was full on, like rut looking stuff out there, you know. 00:06:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, It's That's the thing that's kind of a sane is like you travel several hours north and all of a sudden, just because of that northern latitude this time of year, you're getting different temps. You're getting even maybe different especially you know when you talk about that I forty line that we mentioned in the ret Fresh podcast, like around there, you know, things can are still pretty hot right now, I think. So, you know, there's some weather patterns that will will these big pressure you know, low pressure systems and stuff that'll come through and that line will be you know, it will dip down and stuff in the Midwest and that kind of thing and go pretty low sometimes and then and then sometimes it'll it'll hold high. 00:06:55 Speaker 2: You know. 00:06:56 Speaker 1: So and in the Midwest right now, even in a lot of them are still experiencing warmer temps, which makes a big difference. It's just on the phone with a buddy there and they they feel like the hunting's a little bit slow because the temps aren't huh, super cool. But I think that, you know, there's a weather system moving through the country really slow right now, and on the backside of that is going to be some really good hunting. 00:07:22 Speaker 3: That's what I was wanting to talk about a little bit. I mean, I want you to talk about a couple of things in regards to and around that first buck you shot. You were hunting around a lot of scrapes, not necessarily the technique that killed the deer for you, but that you were definitely hunting around a bunch of scrapes. So talk a little bit about what the weather that you know could happen around there. And then hypothetically, like the weather that is happening in say Illinois right now, where they're getting a lot of rain. We've got a couple of buddies that have been talking about how much train they're getting. 00:07:58 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what. 00:08:00 Speaker 3: How does that affect scrapes that you were hunting versus. And also just overall, like rud activity and some of the techniques and tactics. 00:08:06 Speaker 2: That you can use to kill deer. 00:08:08 Speaker 1: I'm not sure it's proven, but there's a thing that us deer hunters like to think happens where a weather system moves through, like with precipitation, and that kind of messes the scrape up a little bit and it makes deer want to go scrape after the rain. I'm not one hundred percent sold on that's exactly what's going on. I think it kind of might be a thing you're talking about where it's somewhat coincidental with it's the time of year that they're going to be doing that anyway. But either way, scrapes in late October are a big deal, and even into early November a big deal. I mean, if you've listened to it on the podcast for a while, you know that Tyler and I from about September fifteenth, as soon as the scrape gets opened up until the end of dear season, we like hunting scrapes all through the year. You killed a deer on a scrape in the Midwest, like December twenty ninth or something like that, Yeah, towards the end of them, Yeah, it's a it's a good spot. And so what we did initially is I went and set up on a what looks like a traditional rout funnel, somewhat like where a bluff kind of moves down into a valley and kind of pinches deer down real tight, and saw zero deer. So that was the time to get up. That was on a morning hunt. It's time to get out of the stand early because it's just not happening where I'm at. I think that's kind of a key this time of year too, is like, man, get aggressive with your spots and go figure out where some deer are, because yeah, bumping deer is bad, but during the rut, like there's gonna be deer that come in and replace deer. 00:09:40 Speaker 2: If you blow some deer, there will be deer in that. That's a good point. 00:09:42 Speaker 3: There will be deer in that area in a week that haven't even been there maybe once all year, you know what I mean. 00:09:48 Speaker 1: And so we decided early in the morning this is actually pre time change, so nine thirty, which is like an eight thirty right now, we decided to go ahead and get down and do a walk about and try to learn something and. 00:10:03 Speaker 2: Figure out where the deer actually are. 00:10:06 Speaker 1: Well, all we have to do is find like a really old logging road or two track and walk it and suddenly it kind of comes into this clearing and then there are scrapes go lore along this clearing and it's actually a spot where we see an almost shooter scraping like sixty yards away, and we're like freak out mode, you know what I mean, and like just. 00:10:28 Speaker 2: Kind of shooter. 00:10:29 Speaker 3: He as in, if hate it come real close, you probably would have shot it. 00:10:32 Speaker 2: I might would have shot him if he came real close. You know. 00:10:34 Speaker 1: It was like, Okay, if this deer gives me a clean twenty yarder, I got it. Well, all I really had was like a fifty yard frontal and that's really not a it's. 00:10:42 Speaker 2: Not a high odds shot, shall we say, so didn't take the size of the buck. 00:10:48 Speaker 1: I mean, we're like to be real honest around here at the element he was not a fifty yard frontal type buck, you know. And I would advise that there are very few of those in this world, but there. 00:10:58 Speaker 2: Are a few. 00:11:00 Speaker 1: So but that was like a great sign, like this is this is where it's happening. It's going down and with just a tiny bit of boot scouting right there without stomping it up too bad. 00:11:11 Speaker 2: You know, you can. 00:11:12 Speaker 1: You can figure out a lot by just operating your Bino's and kind of scanning around. Sure enough, we can see like probably six scrapes that are at least the size of two feet sets put together, and a couple of them or like the big dogs, you know, the car hood type scrapes, and it's like, oh, this is it. 00:11:31 Speaker 2: They're definitely some deer spending some time in here. So we actually re hung. 00:11:36 Speaker 1: So backstory, this property has been hunted, not this year, but there's some guys that hunted this place the year before, and this is. 00:11:47 Speaker 2: An old food plot where all these scrapes are like kind of like one of them kill plot type things. I didn't know all this until after I talked to the guy who had the access on the place and we figured it all out. 00:11:58 Speaker 1: But there's no there's nothing playing it in there now. But there's some voluntary wild or not wild but voluntary cereal rye from the rock grass that was there before. And then there's like a couple of little Braskas every once in a while coming up in there. So it is a food source, especially on a drought year. But it doesn't really it doesn't look like a luscious food plot, you know, but it's enough to kind of have deer around. It's in a good deer travel area, and there's scrapes galore. We end up hanging in a tree right there. There's an old ladder stand there, not super old, you know, a couple of years old. 00:12:37 Speaker 2: And I start putting the. 00:12:39 Speaker 1: Pieces together, make sure the ladder stands kind of safe, and we climb up in there and then hang our gear and use that ladder stand to get in the tree. Well, it's a good spot. We decided to leave our stuff there and we're going. 00:12:49 Speaker 2: To come back for the evening. 00:12:51 Speaker 1: And it wasn't like that weather change time, but it was a north wind, kind of cool front type deal where I guess you could call the weather rains, just didn't have the rain that I remember. 00:13:03 Speaker 2: But here's another thing too. 00:13:05 Speaker 1: Maybe it's the whole hunter's mindset type deal, but like on a windy day, I feel like junk falls down in them scrapes and stuff, and then deer like. 00:13:12 Speaker 2: To get in there and clear that stuff out too. You know. 00:13:15 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the case or not, but when there's leaves and stuff on the scrape, I feel like deer like to open that thing up. And maybe it's just the time of year. I don't know, but our thoughts were, there's a lot of deer using this. Let's go hunt it until we have a reason not to, because it's the best thing we got going go. 00:13:32 Speaker 2: Back in there. 00:13:32 Speaker 1: That evening, we had just talked to one Michael Hunsluger of Heartland bow Hunter on the Rough Fresh interview. He'd been hunting in Colorado, and I asked him a question about his. 00:13:43 Speaker 2: How many asia in that state? All of them? I asked him his tactic. That's a nice case. He's out there sure enough his dude. 00:13:53 Speaker 3: Sorry, hey, thank you, Michael Huntsucker, thank you for this that's fixing to happen. 00:13:57 Speaker 1: I asked him his tactic for rattling this time here, because he said he likes to rattling late October, and I myself enjoy some rattling as well, just because it's like cool to make deer do that. 00:14:07 Speaker 2: But you know, I have I'm sure some people have. Uh. 00:14:11 Speaker 1: In fact, Jared Mills kind of has an infamous one where he filmed like two two hundred inch bucks fighting to the death in late October one time. But I've never seen deer do a lot of fighting in late October. 00:14:24 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:14:24 Speaker 1: You know, usually it's kind of like a sparring if it's anything, and a lot of times it's younger bucks. So I was curious how he liked to rattle, and he said he usually does a couple of grunts and then does not like a tickle, but just like a half hearted type rattle. 00:14:41 Speaker 2: I got a question for it. Okay, go ahead. I know I'm kind of interrupting you a bunch. Sorry, I can go on for days if you don't interrupt. I don't like the word tickle, but everybody uses it. 00:14:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you can't believe all these he mans are using the word tickle. 00:14:57 Speaker 2: I'm who started the word tickle. I bet it's Larry Wasson. 00:15:02 Speaker 3: You think that's a pretty good guess. That has a good guess, Jimmy Christmas, probably, But I just I just like it's interesting to me that nobody's ever come up with a better word than tickle the horns together, you know, I just feel like all these manly men that you know are better hunting than we are just would come up with something. 00:15:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's interesting. I was talking. Are you challenging Michael's manliness here. No, I'm challenging your manliness. 00:15:30 Speaker 3: I'm challenging the hunting culture or or I guess the hunters out there to come up with a new word. 00:15:39 Speaker 2: That's what I'm challenging. Tinkle for sure. 00:15:42 Speaker 3: We I said that this morning. I was like, man, tinkle, and then we go on tile. 00:15:48 Speaker 1: So with that in mind, I decided I already had a plan. 00:15:54 Speaker 2: In mind for the evening. 00:15:55 Speaker 1: And so where this thing sets up is it works really good for a north or a northwest wind, and you have a kind of a really big heel almost bluff right behind you that the deer don't readily traverse. 00:16:10 Speaker 2: They'll go over it to whatever if they need to. There is a trail over it, but they like to stay in the bottom and the wind is perfect. 00:16:18 Speaker 1: It's also because that hill it gets dark down there early, and I like these kind of places where like the sunsets real early in the day, but it doesn't get dark for like an hour and a half, if that makes sense. 00:16:28 Speaker 2: I think that deer like to use those areas kind of as. 00:16:32 Speaker 1: Their stagingers, or maybe one of the first places they get up and kind of roam around because they just like that little extra bit of darkness. 00:16:38 Speaker 2: They don't like sun hit them too much. 00:16:41 Speaker 1: And so I already decided i'd like kind of done some math, and I was I think Sunset Official Sunset was like six forty five, six feety something like that. 00:16:54 Speaker 2: I don't know for sure. 00:16:55 Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, at five point fifteen, I'm gonna do the thing. I'm gonna do what Mike was talking about. We're a little bit of grunting. And then I'm just gonna kind of work the antlers. I'm not gonna tickle them, but I'm just gonna put them together and cucka, you know, but not like, not like I'm trying to break them. 00:17:12 Speaker 3: So tickle tickle would be the lightest. Yeah, work would be the mid Yeah. And then what dang, you don't like that gen Z term that I didn't. I've been liking that one lately. I'm learning a lot of them from our our new camera maan named Cupcake. 00:17:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then what's the what's the crash them to get. 00:17:31 Speaker 1: I'd say, trying to break each other's neck, That's what I used. That's a long get it out quick though. Again, So I was working the antlers some, but just not a lot of those loud cracks, you know, just like you can just kind of tell. 00:17:45 Speaker 3: That they're working two year olds getting after that exactly, yeah, yeah. 00:17:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then sure enough, Well then I had enough time to put the antlers down. 00:17:55 Speaker 3: How long are you rattling in a sequence? So that was like forty five seconds? 00:17:59 Speaker 2: Okay? Uh? 00:18:00 Speaker 1: I think as the rout press is on, I'm willing to rattle for a lot longer. Really, yeah, I think, Well, you say really because you didn't hear me rattle a lot longer than that the other day, because I was using your rattling antlers and they made me tired real fast. 00:18:15 Speaker 3: Well, but no, I say that because I feel like that when the big bucks get to fighting, the fights are over quick. 00:18:23 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:18:23 Speaker 1: I think that I have a grander scheme on calling that I could discuss right here, right quick, if you can get me back on point here in a second. 00:18:34 Speaker 2: I think that humans a lot of times are too concerned with realism as opposed to what kills deer, and I think that a three to five minute rattling sequence is unrealistic. But I think that especially in Texas and some of the you know, the high deer dynasty areas. I think that they hear it. 00:18:59 Speaker 1: And it keep going and going, and then it just gets them to where they have to come check it out. 00:19:04 Speaker 3: I don't want I don't like having to do this to you. But I disagree with the realism thing. I mean, I like realism. I think I think that people don't realistically rattle must really well. 00:19:16 Speaker 2: People have heard them fight about sound, though it's more about the sound, right, well, I think so. 00:19:24 Speaker 3: I think when I watch people rattle, a lot of times it does not sound like to me, they just go as many times as possible, right, But those deer pushing against each other, and there's times when it's just it's almost got like a scraping against the kind of take the work, you know, like make them sound like they're locked for a second. They got to work it out. Like that's how That's how I rattle, because I mean, I've been blessed to hang around some corn piles in my life in Kansas and watch and hear bucks fight and learn that. But I mean, I think a lot of people just rot around Ralph just one big long say the same saying. But maybe that's what it feels to your point. Maybe that's the that's the that's how it works, and maybe that's why I didn't route on nothing. 00:20:16 Speaker 2: You know what, I think my favorite sound if it's hot and heavy time. 00:20:20 Speaker 1: That's probably what I call it. Hot and heavy, and I'm talking about the most intense. I don't like to be able to if you can imagine, uh. 00:20:28 Speaker 2: Like twisting off a crawfish head, you know. 00:20:31 Speaker 1: What I'm saying to do, if you can imagine that motion, but fast and hard holding on the base handlers that like. I like to do that a lot because I imagine, I imagine, I imagine it's for sure a Southern things. 00:20:45 Speaker 3: That's I mean, that's that's that's what effect effective efficient speak. 00:20:50 Speaker 2: That's right. Imagine there's an apostrophe in there. I think. I imagine that you got two big old bucks and as they are pushing on one another like that, and then all of a sudden, one feels an open. It's like a fighter in the USC, right, he feels an opening, So he's gonna he's gonna change his technique right quick. 00:21:09 Speaker 1: And he goes and then just flips his neck around, you know, And that's a lot of force there. 00:21:14 Speaker 2: There ain't a lot stronger force than a deer. 00:21:16 Speaker 3: Moving his head from you because you saw a video recently of some. 00:21:22 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, yeah buddy, if you ever think you're gonna whoop a deer that weighs the same. 00:21:28 Speaker 2: As you know, you're not more. Yeah. 00:21:31 Speaker 1: So, uh, I think that it's not always about the realism. It's about the effect. Okay, So, and the effect is what what do you want the effect. 00:21:42 Speaker 2: To go to kill the deer? Okay? 00:21:44 Speaker 3: But what is the effect of the rattling that you need to get that done in your So. 00:21:48 Speaker 1: In that case it was more realistic, but. 00:21:53 Speaker 2: Because that's what's kind of going on that time of year. 00:21:55 Speaker 1: But when the testosterone is peeked or whatever is going on later in the rut, some times it's about just doing. 00:22:02 Speaker 3: The thing somewhere they can't help themselves. 00:22:06 Speaker 1: You know. It's kind of almost like this is this might be a little bit of a crude example, and I'll try to keep it PG, but like there are false indicators that women used to attract men, like uh, lipstick or plastic surgery on certain body parts and things like that that just don't even look natural, but for some reason it attracts men. You know what I'm saying, And so I think there's a little bit yeah then big old caterpillar things. 00:22:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, you go. 00:22:36 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, one of the greatest examples, I feel like is the wings on the eyeliner, you know, kind of go way out like that's very unnatural, Like there's nothing that really looks like that right on a human's face. But for some reason it became a popular thing to do or see. Some of the stuff is for girls to think that the other girls are cool. But either way, you get what I'm saying, Like those things aren't now, but they work to attract the opposite sex or just in the deer hunting case, the the maybe it's like Alabama rig yes, which may or may not be natural, or a spinner bait. They ain't a little like a spinner bait out there, you know what I mean. And so I think that, you know, three four five minute calling rattling sequences in the heat of the rut in a high deer dynasty area could work really well. And I have some other thoughts on other calling that we'll talk about here in a little bit. 00:23:32 Speaker 3: So go back. You asked me to get you back on track. Give me back you went into a mid sequence. Yeah for this deer uh huh as opposed to something that would be called hot and heavy. 00:23:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, and kind of had a very you know the result that you hope to happen. In about two to three minutes, a dough comes out into the clearing and she is a little bit antsy uh And that makes you feel good. And you see a doe kind of being a little bit weird and she's not weird because of you. That's a good thing, right. You can probably give a little insight to this, But like those for sure coming to rattling, just like those, did you rattle in this? 00:24:15 Speaker 2: So I was. 00:24:15 Speaker 3: I rattled a morning in a very remote on a very remote piece of private that we had permission to hunt as well, and I we rated. I can't remember how many rattled in. I would think like four or five. Potentially one might have been a group of two, but we rattled in two of them to ten yards at different times that morning, and so, I mean it was very interesting. I wonder if that's because it was I think it was Halloween, so I wonder if that was because it's still just like I here's my thoughts when the dose start getting really pestered, which is happening right now up there. They all of a sudden, I think, shut off a lot of their normal patterns and go into thicker cover. They don't hang out in the open as much unless they're in full estrus, or they might they might just be quick to go across openings or get to food or whatever. And I think that prior to being nosed around really hard. And what's really cool about what you and I get to do, man, this we get to we get to sit out for seven days and watch different phases of the rut. And we did this couple maybe a year or two ago, maybe on buck truck. 00:25:34 Speaker 2: We did it on buck truck. 00:25:35 Speaker 3: We went like November one was the first day we hunted, and we got to see the rut go from November one to November eighth or whatever, and that was a huge change. Yeah, it is. It's crazy. And then we saw it recently on November or October twenty ninth or so thirtieth whatever day that was twenty ninth I think was when we started, maybe, and then we see it go all the way to the fifth and there's a lot that's different. So I guess not to get crazy long winded here, but like on October thirty first, the does were interested in what in the world was going on down there. They hadn't heard that yet. 00:26:09 Speaker 1: Know, last year I was home with the guy I don't remember November second, he rattled in a dough. 00:26:17 Speaker 3: I almost wonder if a knockdown drag out on Halloween and a lot of places. Actually, there's a reason I had didn't ride Atlanta Buck, you know what I mean, Like, I just wonder if they're just like, man, I'm just not quite there. I don't really want to go over there. I don't know, it's weird. I'm sure there's a lot of people that send us a message and be like, oh, I rattled this one out. 00:26:42 Speaker 2: I'd love to kind of get more opinion on this from people. 00:26:46 Speaker 1: If you want to send us a messages kind of short and sweet, maybe what state you're in and what you see with rattling. That would be kind of an interesting polling Dada, and maybe we can share that later. So that dough came out and was acting a little bit anxious. 00:27:03 Speaker 2: She was feeding, but her head was up. 00:27:05 Speaker 1: She'd look around and then she'd like really focus on her right, not at us, you know, like at ninety or like one hundred and ten degrees from straight front of her. 00:27:15 Speaker 2: And that always again another telltale sign. You need to learn to. 00:27:18 Speaker 1: Read deer if you if you don't know, like Tyler is the best at it. 00:27:24 Speaker 2: He can look at a. 00:27:25 Speaker 1: Deer and be like that DearS looking at another deer, and he's right every time. Okay, Like it's crazy. I've learned it some too, And that was what she was doing, and I was like, she's for sure? 00:27:36 Speaker 2: And then we hear. 00:27:39 Speaker 1: And there it's the sound of a buck work and a scrape. He's got his answers. Yeah, that's cool. How far from me? 00:27:46 Speaker 2: It sounded like sixty yards? And I'm pretty sure it's about what it was? 00:27:50 Speaker 3: Was she was she coming to the rattling or was she being pushed by that deer? What do you what do you think actually was going on there? She kind of like bounded out there and then was she coming to eat? 00:28:00 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that maybe he was. Here's what I think happens. Okay. I think that. 00:28:08 Speaker 1: Bucks oftentimes, especially like mid range age bucks like say three and a half four and a half year old bucks will find them a dough and almost play the lottery and be like, I'm locking down on her early, and I'm gonna get to breed her for sure if I stick around for. 00:28:23 Speaker 2: A few days. And I think that's what's going on. 00:28:26 Speaker 1: I think he's with her because he's thinking, Okay, I got me one. She's she's starting to smell pretty pretty sweet. I'm gonna stick it. 00:28:36 Speaker 2: Out with her. And I think that's what was going on. 00:28:39 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but it's kind of one of them hypotheses that hypothesis hypotheses would be plural, I need to use the plural. Yeah, probably one of those Yeah, those would imply plural yeah, hypotheses that I'm not sure. 00:28:55 Speaker 2: Even helps a lot. 00:28:56 Speaker 1: But it's just like one of those things that is kind of need to But I think that's what was going He was with her, I believe, because she it would be strange for her to be by herself at that point in the year. And I hear that, and then it's like, Okay, I'm gonna slowly get my bow because. 00:29:14 Speaker 2: There's a decent chance that this is a year that I'm interested in. And sure enough, he does that. 00:29:21 Speaker 1: And the way that this opening sets up is it's kind of like a kidney bean, and it kind of has that bend in the middle a little bit, so he has to come to the other end of it to see who was down there messing around aka me giving him the med antlers. And he just kind of strolls down, kind of puffed up like he's the boss, and I was like, brother, that ain't what you get to do round here. 00:29:43 Speaker 2: You saw him puff up a little bit. 00:29:46 Speaker 1: He wasn't like bug eyed, you know, but he was just like he had that that kind of lope. 00:29:53 Speaker 2: Thing to his walk, you know what I mean, Like Connor McGregor. Yeah, Like, I'm not I ain't worried about y'all. I'm gonna go down to see what's going on. 00:30:00 Speaker 1: And when I first saw him, he was about forty yards and he had his head down and I could tell that his beams went out and wrapped back in pretty good, and he had pretty decent time. 00:30:11 Speaker 2: Length, and I'm like, oh, I'm shooting this deer for sure. And then he just comes like right bias and gives me a perfect broadside fifteen And man, when you see that pocket open up, it's real. It's hard not to shoot. 00:30:28 Speaker 3: I see it on those all the time, and I'm like, oh, why can't I just shoot this thing? 00:30:33 Speaker 2: And so I drew back and I expected, so I always expect deer to stop when I draw. I think it's just years of hunting. 00:30:41 Speaker 1: Texas public land, where like they're going to freak out when you do that, you know. But honestly, he didn't stop at all. And I macked him once kind of soft, and you just kind of slowed down his walk, didn't look up at me, and then that kind of gave him a little bit more a mac kind of thing, and he finally stops, but still doesn't look up at me. 00:30:59 Speaker 2: And I I. 00:31:01 Speaker 1: Squo was the trigger, squazed baby, and ripped him and he ran like ten yards, stopped and looked around, and then blood started coming out that hole pretty good. And then he went another like walked another twenty yards and fell over and very lay soaked him. 00:31:20 Speaker 3: And the shot I want to talk about a little bit, Okay, if I was to draw his spot on the deer when he stopped, you know that, you know, like a lot of guys will post like a grid and be like. 00:31:31 Speaker 2: What where are you at? People be like a seven or whatever. 00:31:34 Speaker 3: You know, if I was to pick a pick a little, you know, two inch square, yeah, one inch square. I mean then it was on the spot. It was as money as I could have picked a place to aim. 00:31:48 Speaker 2: I felt like, what did you hit? 00:31:51 Speaker 1: So I always, if given the opportunity, do a. 00:31:57 Speaker 2: What crops is it a neck? Cropsies? That's word? 00:32:00 Speaker 1: I think, So the I don't want to see what's going on in there, right, So I'm going to tell you I shot him with a three three blade fixed blade, a. 00:32:10 Speaker 2: Highly regarded tough fixed blade. I like it a lot. I still will use it because it it's it's smoked them. But I ended up hitting. 00:32:23 Speaker 1: The rear lobe of both lungs and really took care of the liver really well. And so it's a double lung with also liver because but no heart. No heart deer people, I think, and I'm learning this stuff too. We try to think about deer on a two dimensional plane with their vitals, and that's not how it works. Stuff tucks up in there in between stuff, and so like you can have weird stuff where you hit lungs and stomach and things like that. And and oh, by the way, there's a whole esophagus that runs through there too, So like sometimes you'll have something weird where it's like a heart shot, you know, effectively really more of an artery shot, but then you've got some stomach matter on there and as well it's just because the deer has some food, you know, in his gullet or whatever, and it could get weird. But I guess what I'm saying is that, like, uh, the vitals are more complex. 00:33:19 Speaker 2: Than what people like to make them sometimes. So here here's I'll also say this real quick. 00:33:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have preferred to hit him further forward than I did. 00:33:29 Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, I feel like you were so close to that elbow. Mmmm. 00:33:34 Speaker 3: We need to post a picture of the whole at some point, like just like I got one of the middle like right after. 00:33:41 Speaker 2: You hit right. 00:33:41 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would love to. I would love for people's thoughts on that, but I got so many big buck pictures on my phone right now. 00:33:49 Speaker 2: It's a good thing. I got to figure out which one it is. It's a good thing. 00:33:55 Speaker 3: I feel like it just blows my mind that you missed the heart. 00:33:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:33:59 Speaker 3: Did the exit come out further back than the entry entry? I feel like a little bit, I mean just barely. 00:34:08 Speaker 1: I mean the exit is far and a forward that it didn't get any stomach. 00:34:14 Speaker 3: But it felt like the entry was right behind the elbow. I mean, it felt like like it almost looks like where I hit that fifty yard shot that everybody has. 00:34:21 Speaker 2: Been the see. 00:34:23 Speaker 1: I think maybe you're remembering a little bit more. Maybe it's just it's such a it's not bad. I mean, it's not a it's not what I would call a twelve ring. But it's absolutely like you're fist pumping as soon as the deer runs off. 00:34:36 Speaker 3: And so you didn't you didn't put a hole in the lungs. You just hit them on the edge. Is that what you're saying. 00:34:43 Speaker 1: It's good enough to where if it was just the lungs and not the liver, he would have died, but not so good that he had blood coming out. 00:34:51 Speaker 3: I mean, like, I guess what I'm saying, is there there wasn't margin on all sides of the hole, or was it was there on one of them in the lungs and on one of them the near side? 00:35:00 Speaker 2: Probably? 00:35:00 Speaker 3: Okay, that's interesting to me. Yeah, So, and the deer, it took a once he laid down, it took a little bit. 00:35:06 Speaker 2: It took a little while. 00:35:07 Speaker 1: It was Uh, you know, I think this happens a lot in deer hunting, but a lot of times they run off and die in the woods and we don't really know, you know, the you're supposed to give every deer thirty minutes, right, it's kind of the way we do things. And it took him every bit of that to stop wheedling. Yeah, it's kind of a I mean, for the captive audience here, it was a little unnerving to see. I mean, I thought about shooting him again a couple times, just to try to make it happen faster, but I didn't have a clear shot at where he was. 00:35:34 Speaker 2: He was like forty five yards away when he when he expired, and. 00:35:39 Speaker 1: I would have had to like get down, and I was worried that if I got down, he was gonna like freak out. 00:35:44 Speaker 2: You know, how deer could they? You know, we talk about it, or y'all. 00:35:49 Speaker 1: Do I should say in waterfowl, you know, they catching a second wind to recoup or whatever, you know, And like I didn't want him to like get a shot of adrenaline, because he had no adrenaline when I shot him. 00:36:00 Speaker 2: No clue what happened. He just walked off like, oh, I kind of feel weird and then got real weird. Would you. 00:36:07 Speaker 3: If you had to make an assumption here, would it have been a different result if you had a mechanical. 00:36:14 Speaker 1: No, maybe just a little quicker to die, But that's just about how big. 00:36:20 Speaker 2: The Do you think his reaction would have been different potentially? 00:36:22 Speaker 1: Actually, that's a good question because I think that mechanicals slap a lot of times, especially on a fast bow at close range. I think it's a pow, you know, especially if you're shooting a front opener. I think it's a big deal, and even some rear openers a lot of times, like say like a very popular broadhead like a rage. 00:36:39 Speaker 2: You're not cutting on impacts, You're poking. 00:36:42 Speaker 1: And I can promise you the difference in getting sliced with the razor or getting poked with a cactus needle. I mean you can think about, like which one of those hurts worse? 00:36:50 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 00:36:51 Speaker 1: And so like I do think I learned this a long time ago from Chris b. I watched him shoot a deer in Michigan, a dink you know it. Crispy usually shoots I'm kidding. 00:37:03 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, but uh he's a Dinkerman. 00:37:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's him. No, he's he's a friend. So sorry, guys, I'm not trying to throw shade there. He he shot this deer with a fixed p big deer. He does a big deer. He doesn't really care what I say. 00:37:21 Speaker 1: And so he shot a deer with a fixed blade at close range like fifteen yards and the exact same result, like the deer like took one bound and then's just like what happened and then fell over dead. 00:37:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, which I think is really cool. I shot the one I shot in Iowa. You're talking about the Iowa trip, you know, I went back or whatever. Shot a deer with a two blade fixed blade is really sharp. In fact, I cut myself like three times that year on and I cut myself getting these brought heads out of the package. Yeah, yeah, a couple. 00:37:53 Speaker 2: Well I shot. 00:37:54 Speaker 3: I shot that deer kind of on a quarter or two through the shoulder blade and he ran twenty yards. 00:38:00 Speaker 2: Was like, what what's going on here? In the sleep and just and he went down quit. He mean he expired quickly. 00:38:07 Speaker 1: But I mean this deer that I shot was I mean absolutely smoked. I mean there was uh, you know, blood pouring at both sides. It just took a while, and they're tough, and this time of year they're even tougher sometimes because they are just rutted up and they just have a will to live like humans don't even understand. 00:38:25 Speaker 2: Sometimes, No we don't, dude. 00:38:27 Speaker 1: I mean, dude, if you shot me through the vitals of the broadhead, I'm not making it three seconds. 00:38:32 Speaker 2: Just open the good Lord welcomes me this open arms. I was the deer last year and I cut myself. 00:38:42 Speaker 3: I was on the verge of dying. I cut my finger on this one. I didn't need to get you that super good. 00:38:48 Speaker 2: That's all. It's all done now these it's not too bad. 00:38:52 Speaker 1: By the end of the year, all have cuts all over my fingers between hanging sets and cleaning deer. 00:38:57 Speaker 2: Hanging sets is just hard on the knuckles. I got. I got a pretty give one right there on my right knuckle. Yeah that I can feel pretty good. 00:39:04 Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's the story out there. He's a great Buck's super pump. To shoot him, I think he's probably three and a half, which is totally cool with me, you know, I'll say tell you for sure. I aspired to shoot bigger deer than him, but I was super stoked. 00:39:18 Speaker 2: Susan Sam was like, that's a shooter. 00:39:20 Speaker 1: Uh, And I'm thankful to shot him too, because I got a little bit of a lark, a late start, a lark a lot. 00:39:30 Speaker 2: Just naturally doing it. 00:39:31 Speaker 1: That's right, dude, I'm a little bit of a late start to my season because I had to set out kind of some of the first things because me and my wife had a child, and I was happy to do that. 00:39:41 Speaker 2: But now it's time to make up for lost ground. 00:39:44 Speaker 1: And you know, when you do that kind of stuff, the first good looking buck comes by, it is in real big. 00:39:49 Speaker 3: Danger and tee dude, Well that's good, that's awesome. It's congrats on that. 00:39:54 Speaker 2: Thank you. I would say, what do you think the effects. 00:39:57 Speaker 3: Of you guys going down there, getting them out in the dark near near quote unquote food plot right had on that area? 00:40:07 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know because we weren't there very long, so I don't know what was going on there beforehand, but we. 00:40:13 Speaker 2: Know what was going on there after. 00:40:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, I encourage you to go down there and hunt too, because of how much sign there was and it seemed to be a good amount of bucks around, and you did see some bucks, but I think maybe it did take a. 00:40:29 Speaker 2: Day for it to kind of cool, to kind of chill out. 00:40:32 Speaker 1: But you never really saw anything that was in the shooter category. 00:40:36 Speaker 3: And I passed one kind of tough pass. Yeah, probably another three year old nine point kind of thin antlered had split had extras on both G two's and maybe he had an extra on a brow tye or something like that too, And real nice buck came work to scrape, like legit, I arranged it this morning. He would have been he would have been straight yard, straight line, six yards from my face where I was sitting very close to us, and it was really cool. We got cool footage of it too. But outside of that, deer denk city down there, and I only saw at most maybe three deer on any set, and including the last the last three sets were two doughs. Then I saw in the next set one dough and then I saw this morning zero deer from my tree stand. 00:41:31 Speaker 1: Well, now here's the thing that you end up with down there, too, is that the winds kind of swirl around a little bit, so I think sometimes you might be doing more damage than you think you are. Yeah, you know, I kind of had a little bit of a first time end kind of thing when I killed that deer. Yeah, and then also you could have deer getting by you because you can't see everything. And then I think the the biggest point, if I can remember it is is I think you get a lot of Yeah, you get a lot of dinks on those scrapes. I feel like it's the part of the root that they really get to participate in. 00:42:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's kind of no harm, no foul. 00:42:11 Speaker 1: It's like them little dudes in the gym that you know, like a buck fifty five but rips, they got abs, you know, and it's like. 00:42:18 Speaker 2: We'll go around talking a bunch of noise, but they like to flex. 00:42:21 Speaker 1: In the in the mirror and all that kind of stuff, you know, and so or you know, if you're a buck fifty five, no offense, Okay, I mean it's great weight, good for you. 00:42:29 Speaker 2: Well, Casey Knight's abuck sixty. He is. And I wouldn't call him a flexer. No, No, he's flexible, but no, it's about it. He is. 00:42:39 Speaker 3: It's about it, and he's he actually told me this morning he doesn't believe in the muscle. 00:42:44 Speaker 2: It's ridiculously actually, I put the words in his mouth, but he thought it was awesome. That's yeah. 00:42:50 Speaker 3: So anyway, Casey, we we you killed another deer. Yes, do we need to tell another podcast on that one. There's a lot of tactics around there this one. 00:43:00 Speaker 1: Let's just make this a big party and then we'll have another podcast where we talk some tactics about an actual giant. 00:43:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, you were whatever you were. You were, you were being chef boy r D for a little bit on this trip. I appreciate it was a time. 00:43:16 Speaker 2: It's a big help to Uh, it's a big help. 00:43:19 Speaker 3: When I mean we have a lean crew this year guys, and uh, we're we love the guys that we've been hunting with on this trip. And but you know, for us to to with all the tags we had and we're trying to fill, there hadn't been a whole lot of editing or podcasting going on as you've seen. So, you know, with with all the things that we do in the evening that have have you know that in regards to footage, especially right pictures, editing all these different things, we you know, we it's hard to get food cooked for you, so it was nice for yourself. So it was nice to have you having hot stuff ready. Man, that was a huge help. And I was really tired because I was working hard. There was the property that I was telling you about. I was rattling us. I was hunting up there quite a bit early on in our trip. And uh, it's an hour from the time you leave the little cabin we were staying in. It is it is almost exactly an hour before you get out and start to start walking. And then you got to walk in this to this place is not very good access and uh, hang a stand potentially, which I did the first day. We just saw deer in the ditch. Was his head completely severed in the middle of a town like town somebody took that buck's head in the middle of a town. 00:44:37 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:44:37 Speaker 3: Uh anyway, so anyway that that that was a big help. 00:44:42 Speaker 2: But you a side not on this. 00:44:46 Speaker 1: It is a game changer if you can just even have a kitchen head instead of a motel room. 00:44:52 Speaker 3: And I just think people don't like to eat like you do. I think I'm not no, no, I'm saying like you like you know, the whole foods and no seedles, all that stuff. I think there's a bunch of people that love just going to Dagum. 00:45:06 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure they do. 00:45:07 Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, dude, a mixed chicken is tasty. I didn't have one, probably in four years, but I don't know if I've ever had one. They're good. I know it's not the best. But you don't actually hate me Donalds because it tastes bad. 00:45:21 Speaker 2: You just do. 00:45:23 Speaker 3: Probably the worst burger there is is the worst burger of fast food. 00:45:27 Speaker 2: You might be right, But. 00:45:30 Speaker 1: Indicator, Yeah, they're indicators there that like there's something tasty. The fries are good, you know, like YadA YadA. But the point I want to make is that if you do that for five days straight, you're gonna feel terrible. And having a kitchen net where you can make some burritos or you know, cook up some eggs and bacon or whatever, or even just bringing in one of them little hot plate deals or whatever, you know, just a to do a little bit of cooking. Eating a Dagum avocado will make you feel so much better than friends fries. 00:46:00 Speaker 2: At the Miller Gas Station Pizza, we got a crew of green eaters right now. We don greeters, but. 00:46:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, uh ushers h so uh. That was my side note to what you're trying to get to. You're trying to get to something was getting to another the next year. So for one day I played chef boy r D and did some cooking. Tyler and I don't like to do this too much, but sometimes it's what's the most efficient thing for us to split up when we're on the road. 00:46:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you just can't be missing too many rout days, you know. 00:46:34 Speaker 1: So, uh, we decided to be good for me to head up to South Dakota and try to do some hunting there, maybe get some scouting done in preparation for h Tyler to kill a Nebraska and come on up. Well, uh, don't get there really in time the first evening to do too awful much. We we did kind of do some scouting, didn't find a whole lot that we were super pumped about, and so we decide that we're gonna go into this place it's way back in the middle of. 00:47:07 Speaker 2: Nowhere for the next day. 00:47:09 Speaker 1: Just assume there's no pressure back there, and it's almost like, let's get that out of the way so that we can go focus on these other things. 00:47:17 Speaker 3: You assume there's no pressure, why use how hard it. 00:47:22 Speaker 2: Is to get to. 00:47:23 Speaker 1: For a couple of reasons, it's hard to get to, it doesn't look great on the map, and in general, there's not a lot of people deer hunting right now. It's bird season in South Dakota, so there's a lot of pheasant and all that stuff going on. 00:47:37 Speaker 2: So it's just. 00:47:38 Speaker 1: It's just not really south if you know South Dakota, it's not really a deer hunting state too much, you know. 00:47:43 Speaker 2: I mean the definitely is some deer house kind of there's kind of a cap. 00:47:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, like those deer they have harsh winters, so once they get to four or five, I don't know, I just feel like there's they kind of get short timed up there. A lot of them are two, so they just doret and so like they just one of the things we notice in general is that, you know, for body sized to antler size, that a lot of these deer were kind of I don't know, it's kind of like elk. You know, they'll have decent main beams and their times will be short liver and it's like a drought year. 00:48:12 Speaker 1: And I think that was kind of a thing. Yeah, well, uh, we decided to go off from this place. It's way back. We're gonna like try to get it out of the way before you show up, and you and I can just do a pow wow. And we kind of had a strategy for the thing we're gonna do. We're gonna do some scrape hunting and do some really ruddy type things, which we'll get to in another podcast. Y'all should be excited about that. But so I'm hunting with Greg. You know, Greg, Greg's filming me. And Greg is great on these type of hunts because he's he's a good hunter and he he thinks things through health strategy. Yeah, he's super stealthy and uh stealthy Greg. I think that's a good nigga. 00:48:56 Speaker 2: Is that it? Yeah, that's pretty good stealthy Greg. And uh so we decided to go back into this spot way back. I bring like half a liter of water. 00:49:07 Speaker 1: I don't even like speaking in those terms, but a bottle was a leader bottle. 00:49:11 Speaker 2: So I know deer out there is deer out there. I sill. I thought I saw a turkey eating that pivot eating the pivot. Wow. We saw a deer make a scrape on a pivot nozzle one time. It's pretty cool. So, uh, I bring a. 00:49:25 Speaker 1: Half liter of water and two peanut butter and jellies, and that's about enough to get me through nine am. 00:49:35 Speaker 2: I can tell you the mistake you made was beef and jeeps? Is it? 00:49:39 Speaker 3: Because as you know, after this week, you can't just eat one at its like, once you eat the first one, it is so good that you have to have another one. 00:49:48 Speaker 2: There's a great tactic that you can use on peeb and jeeves to. 00:49:53 Speaker 1: Maybe like do a placebo effect on yourself where you tell you know you're gonna want a lot of them, so you go make you a hazy and eat it half and then jelly on the half. But then you eat it and you say, oh, I want another one bad, And then you're only eating one whole sandwich, probably. 00:50:11 Speaker 2: Because you're filling that first one. Pretty hate Yeah, yeah, I mean. 00:50:14 Speaker 3: You got quite I got quite a bit of jelly. 00:50:16 Speaker 2: On it list. 00:50:17 Speaker 1: And by the way, everyone strawberry jelly is the elite jelly for peanut butter and jelly. 00:50:22 Speaker 2: Pretty good, Yeah, I say so. I would say so. Grape is kind of the o g but strawberry is better. 00:50:27 Speaker 3: I like all jellies, but strawberry is probably just the best. 00:50:32 Speaker 1: Okay, So we go back into this spot and there's a glass and knob. 00:50:37 Speaker 2: It's it's kind of a weird deal. The wind doesn't set up great for it. 00:50:41 Speaker 1: So I picked this one glass knob to where my wind's not blowing at a great or a terrible place, but it's still going to kind of have deer work through it. 00:50:48 Speaker 2: Potentially well. 00:50:50 Speaker 1: Ends up the wind is whipping, which is what happens in plain states, which is good in this situation. I end up having wind just blow right over deer and we get sitting down right at legal shooting line, which is kind of perfect for a glass and day. You know, like if you're gonna go in there and hang you want to be back hung up. 00:51:09 Speaker 2: Todd wants to be hung up three days before it's actually hunt in time. But I didn't do a good job of that on this trip. That's all right, man, you didn't need to well, I mean the place I didn't kill on. 00:51:19 Speaker 1: Hey, it gets real hard on a morning hunt to get somewhere in time when there's a lot of logistics involved, gates and all this kind of stuff, and like a long walk, like it's super difficult to get to a place and time to hang. So anyways, that's not what we're doing that morning. So we went in there, sat down as soon as sit down and see a dough in a fawn and oh dear, and uh, I was like, I think. 00:51:42 Speaker 2: It's a buck. 00:51:43 Speaker 1: Well because it had its tail out doing the half ze tail thing. 00:51:46 Speaker 2: Well that wasn't the case. It was a dough. 00:51:49 Speaker 1: But we proceed to kind of have a slower morning until the sun's sun starts poking up and then sure enough deer start kind of crawling, and uh, we count it probably, I don't know, thirty dos and six bucks totally, you know, and and two or three of those are kind of dinkers, but we saw a couple of real nice bucks and on public. M yeah, I was only counting deer towards my account that stepped on public. 00:52:15 Speaker 2: Really. Yeah, so thirty six deer on public probably. Wow. The dog groups are real big. I mean, there'd be really dog groups of five or six or seven. Yeah, so you start having dough groups like that. There's a lot of twins back there. 00:52:31 Speaker 3: Okay, So is that because do you think that dog groups will get smaller or have gotten smaller even since then? 00:52:37 Speaker 2: I think that the bucks will break them up, for sure. I don't think it's intentional. 00:52:40 Speaker 1: But I think that they a lot of times them doughs go to run for their lives around about. 00:52:45 Speaker 2: This time, hear and tee. I saw them this morning. 00:52:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, they they uh, they do get receptive sooner or later, but they aren't near as in the mood as the boys are sometimes. 00:52:55 Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, I know you don't say that's a married man. I can't imagine they what was where was it going with that? Sorry, you're seeing thirty six dos. 00:53:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, deer and some of the bucks were very interesting, and we weren't really in position to do a whole lot of like direct hunting. We're like my bow is laying on the ground over here next to me, you know, like I'm just not gonna get a shot from where we're sitting. So I'm not really serious about the deer. I'm kind of more tracking where they go and what they do. And uh, we see like a really nice three or four year old to eight point probably four go into a pocket of timber and he has like a dinker with him, and so like there's this thing I'm constantly judging the temperature of the rut and the bucks are together pretty much. We see those two and then they kind of join up with another one or two like two year olds, and they're like hanging out and probably just down there kind of scraping and doing a little bit of pre rut type stuff, but they're just very much chill. And then my attention gets directed kind of one hundred and eighty degrees in a different dough group because I kind of lose sight of them, And we decide that there's a section is property we can't see from where we're sitting, so we're gonna get up and go check that out and see what's over there. Well, as soon as we get up, there's a saddle behind us, like a topography saddle, and we stand up. There's a yearland that we bump out of that saddle, and she goes run down the hill. But yearlands are real stupid. If you don't know this already, like you can get away with so much. She didn't have a clue what happened. She didn't smell us. She's ran downhill, and she attracted a lot of attention. All of a sudden, deer starts standing up down here. A couple of dose run down out of this drainage to meet her, see what's happening. A two year old buck stands up from kind of a hettie hole that we didn't even know was there. 00:54:56 Speaker 2: I love that phrase. 00:54:58 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's good stuff many and then a three or four year old nine point that's like pretty wide with white antlers and pretty tall times on a couple of them stands up, and I'm like, I kind of get serious. So all of a sudden, I'm like, man, that is a pretty nice buck. I might would shoot that deer. You know, they're kind of far. They're probably like two fifty, so I don't I don't have a really great bearing for how big he is, but I can just tell he's real white, and uh, I kind of get excited. 00:55:26 Speaker 2: We kind of get down and just observe what the deer doing. 00:55:30 Speaker 1: And then it gets even more interesting because a heavy ten point with shorter times comes down out of the hills and he's acting ruddy. He's acting like, okay, what are you bucks doing standing up over here? 00:55:46 Speaker 2: And he puts them on the road. 00:55:47 Speaker 1: The deer that I was kind of excited thinking about shooting goes with another two year old and two dinks and they go around. 00:55:54 Speaker 2: The corner, so subordinate point. And why is that? Do you think? I think a couple reasons. For one, he's probably four or older. You know, deer that you don't know. It's just real hard to tell the older how old they are. But he's for sure bigger body than them, Yes he did. 00:56:15 Speaker 1: He is for sure not to likely not three, likely four, possibly five plus, because at that point in time, if you don't know him, it's kind of hard to tell, right. 00:56:25 Speaker 2: It's like looking at a person. 00:56:26 Speaker 1: You can tell that I'm not twenty, but you can't tell if I'm thirty or forty two. 00:56:32 Speaker 3: And we got some friends that you can't tell for fifty five or twenty five. 00:56:35 Speaker 1: Depends on if I had my hat on or not, honestly, but that's that's how this deer was, and I was. I was kind of interested him too. But where he he corralled a dough and brought her back up into the hill into a drainage where I couldn't see, and where they were just absolutely did not set up good for any kind of a stalk. 00:56:56 Speaker 2: And so I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna let them be. I know where they are at maybe later today or later in the trip, I can I can make a play on that buck, you know, just kind of like taking notes pretty much. It was just I was very. 00:57:12 Speaker 1: Uh what's the word here, nonchalant about everything. 00:57:17 Speaker 2: It was just taking it all in. Really. 00:57:18 Speaker 1: It was just an exciting time to be in the woods, you know, pretty good nonchalant. 00:57:23 Speaker 3: You think, well, I was thinking, I mean, yeah, and the deer I was thinking more just like taking it all in in the deer woods. 00:57:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, you do that pretty often. Yeah, sometimes I missed the bigger point. 00:57:33 Speaker 3: But it's maybe the more serious point, but maybe not the bigger point. 00:57:37 Speaker 1: Oh well, it's a good point. 00:57:41 Speaker 2: So there's a part of this property that I really want. 00:57:43 Speaker 1: To see that I decided that we should where initially we were headed to before we bump that year land. 00:57:52 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:57:52 Speaker 1: And it's probably I don't know, three quarters of a mile walk to get there through some train, but it's worth going to look at. 00:57:59 Speaker 2: We go there and. 00:58:02 Speaker 1: It's like a glassing point that you can look down into a creek and I find a couple of deer bedded We reposition to make sure. 00:58:08 Speaker 2: That they're just doze, and sure enough it's just some doe. 00:58:11 Speaker 1: We see like four does down in there, and we stay there for about an hour and no no bucks ever show up. We see a big giant rub, so you know there's some around, so it kind of makes you think, man, I should stick around and see if one stands up to use the bathroom or to kind of check his doze or whatever. Never happens. I look at greg and said, hey, Gregor, I got to eat my last peanut butter and jelly. 00:58:29 Speaker 2: This is number four. Yeah, this is number two, and this is at like eleven forty. Yeah. Remember you texted me throughout the day on this study. 00:58:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, and one of the first things you said was I didn't bring enough sandwiches. 00:58:40 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. 00:58:42 Speaker 1: Well, I'm actually being real conservative with my water, and it's neat because like, once it gets cooler, you don't have to drink as much water. I mean, it's probably good for you, but like as far as like I'm dying of thirst, you don't have that feeling as much, you know. So there's a little buck right there, sure enough, little Bucky by the road. 00:59:01 Speaker 2: Hey, Tyler's got a tag boy buck get out here telling you but ditches are public land, right Yeah? 00:59:09 Speaker 1: And uh, I look at Greg and s Greg, I'm sorry, but I gotta go ahead and eat my second sandwich, and he says, I ate my second one about an hour and a half. 00:59:16 Speaker 2: Ago, Greg, Greg, he just look a sandwich. 00:59:20 Speaker 1: I don't even know sure we're officially out of food after I eat that sandwich. 00:59:25 Speaker 2: You know another thing he did that was real stealthy. What's that He stepped on one of our cameras and broke it? He did? Yeah, Oh, Papa Leg Greg over here, man, it's needle Greg. He's had all the nicknames. 00:59:37 Speaker 1: We are a nickname. He kind of plays around here. So, Uh, Anyways, we decide that we're gonna go trying to make a play on that first nine point because where he went was something that we could do kind of a low odds but low impact play where instead of trying to stalk up and shoot him a bed because we don't really know where he's better, we just know what finger he's in, We're going to work our way around the end of the hill and call up into that finger, uh Cooley, whatever you want to call it. That well, I think about fingers as being like a thing on a cove and a lake. 01:00:17 Speaker 2: So I don't know if it makes is that what you call him, like the secondary things inside of it. 01:00:23 Speaker 3: When people say that, I understand it, but I don't. I don't think I call him. 01:00:26 Speaker 1: When I say a finger, that's what I think of. And I want to make sure I'm conveying the right thing to people. So you know, it's like a pocket, it's a draw. It I call it a draw. 01:00:37 Speaker 2: Uh, will be the best way to look at this type of ground up in here. So we go around the end of the hill. It's a it's a really sneaky situation. 01:00:44 Speaker 1: You know, the the wind's blowing pretty good, but there's some real dry stuff because of the drought. So uh, we sneak around the end of this hill real slow, like glassing around. We actually pop over the hill a little bit just to kind of glass and see if we can get eyes on the deer. 01:00:58 Speaker 2: Can't see him. Go back down, go all the way around the end and set up in these little whisty trees. 01:01:04 Speaker 1: And decide that we're gonna do a little grunting and rattling from there. And this is we start doing a little bit of that old Michael Hunsucker mid rattling with some grunts involved, and I do like probably forty five seconds of it put the antlers down, and not a whole lot has happened. I look up the hill and I am up in the thicket. I see a dough and she's looking down in our direction. She can't really see us, but the rattling has apparently gotten the attention of a deer, which is the intent. So I'm glad it's happened, but we have to be very still because this dough is looking around. And a lot of times, if you let deer just do their own thing, they'll kind of like. 01:01:51 Speaker 2: Self perpetuate a situation, you know what I'm talking about, Like if you initiate something, all of a sudden a dog gets curious, and then another doe sees her curious, and she gets up, and then all of a sudden they start just doing this thing. Yeah, and that's kind of what happened because she. 01:02:05 Speaker 3: Usually if a buck's in the mix, like he'll kind of like distract them sometimes and then it'll all bust loose. 01:02:11 Speaker 1: It's about two thirty when this is going on, too, so it's real early in the day. But I think they kind of like to get up around that time and stretch, use the bathroom and maybe reposition or whatever. Well, this dough is still looking around, and actually she may have came down the hill or went back or something. 01:02:27 Speaker 2: I can't remember for sure, but well, all looking at her, Grig says, there's a dough right here behind a cedar tree, right in front of us, and I'm looking. I can't find her. I can't find her. 01:02:36 Speaker 1: Well, the most ambiguous term in deer hunting is right here, because to me, right here is a distance between twenty five and in. 01:02:45 Speaker 2: But the point of it is, you don't understand, is be still. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I don't know if you know this, but I was already very still. 01:02:53 Speaker 3: So but you never know when you're gonna not be still, especially if I'm saying that to a Camera's. 01:02:59 Speaker 2: What I eat. Situation. 01:03:01 Speaker 1: Once we've established the right here, yeah, we need to have a She's sixty yards out, ok, but we got there. Uh, he said, she's right on the edge of the shadow. So that that made a lot more sense, he said, shadow. No, I can't right on the edge of the shadow shade. Maybe I'm the only one that does the a thing. 01:03:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit, but I'm just fo Yeah. No, that is funny. I'm in mazone right now, and I'm just I'm speaking. This is my real accent when you're trying to up here and there. No, it's good hand. Well, you know, I'm speaking at nine hundred words a minute, so sometimes you got to slow down a little bit. And so all of a sudden, this no, she's got us maid. 01:03:45 Speaker 1: I mean, she doesn't know where humans, but she knows there's something over there and she's got to figure it out. So she then walks to about thirty five and then goes to stomping, and I'm thinking, girl, you better be so thankful that we are so far back in here and that I'm not trying to kill a buck right now, because you're the exact kind of dough I would like to just rip the square. 01:04:09 Speaker 2: Yes, she was. She was fully mature. 01:04:13 Speaker 1: And so she stopping and goes to kind of being weird, and I'm like, okay, and here's. 01:04:18 Speaker 2: The thing that I'm experimenting with. Guys. 01:04:21 Speaker 1: I have decided that I'm an aggressive deer hunter. Not always, but if I'm on the ground, I'm absolutely going to be an aggressive dinner deer hunter. 01:04:31 Speaker 2: Deer hunting decision maker. 01:04:33 Speaker 1: That's me and whenever you're halfway made, you ain't got nothing to lose. 01:04:40 Speaker 2: I mean, once that dough is like, this is weird. 01:04:42 Speaker 1: If you just conker down sooner later, she's gonna get weird and it's gonna get bad. So if you remember, back in buck Truck, I rattled in a buck an awesome wide deer, one of my most favorite deer I ever shot to like thirty five yards. 01:04:56 Speaker 2: He hangs up behind this h bush and I give. 01:05:01 Speaker 1: Him just a real soft snort wheeze, and it like kind of calms him down to the point where he has to come take another look. And that was what punched his ticket, was because he cleared his vitals and I could shoot him. And I wasn't gonna shoot this dough. But I'm like, you know what, I just did this rattling. I did this a little bit of grunting. I'm gonna make sure that I'm gonna just sell it hard that I'm a deer. 01:05:25 Speaker 2: I mean, I know that anything you want these days, I try. Man. I know that they don't. 01:05:30 Speaker 1: I don't really look like a deer over here, but they're expecting a deer after all the rattling and all. 01:05:35 Speaker 2: That I'm just gonna make it. I'm just gonna make it like I'm a deer. 01:05:37 Speaker 1: And I've heard those do this where if there's a buck and he's kind of doing a bucky thing, they'll like blow at him. And as soon as she blew, I went to snort wheeze and back at her. And I know y'all gonna think I'm crazy, like it's a weird thing to do. I probably throughout the course of this, just to speed it up a little bit. I bet I snort weeze thirty five times. It's y'all will make fun of me until you see. 01:06:03 Speaker 2: That made funny you in the in the Most Bug video. Yeah they will. 01:06:09 Speaker 1: And uh that's okay because I have did deer on the ground and that sounds kind of cocky. 01:06:15 Speaker 3: No sorry, I know what you're saying. It's like, well it worked, it worked, and that's what. 01:06:19 Speaker 2: I'm It goes back to the thing I was talking about earlier, realism versus what kills deer. That's a good good cap on that point, right, you're trying. 01:06:28 Speaker 1: To kill a deer, O cap dog, You're trying to kill a deer, Okay, And so uh, I'm start we'sing back at her. She's snorting, and uh, we're about to get gymmed done. 01:06:40 Speaker 3: You can't just make decisions last second and expect everybody to move out. 01:06:44 Speaker 2: People. 01:06:45 Speaker 3: There's a reason you're supposed to when you drive eighteen wheelers of guys, If you're an eighteen millier driver, you should keep your head on a swivel, you know what I mean. Yeah, brother, you're kind of responsible for not killing people. 01:06:54 Speaker 1: So this dough takes a couple of girls with her and rolls out to ninety and they're kind of like out in the valley and I look up the hill and that little dose still up there. But then I see a glistening and glistening is always a good thing. 01:07:10 Speaker 2: Like that Bush song listening. Oh, I thought you were talking. Now watch me hit this drive. Watch out for this alligator in the world is I thought it was a baby car. It is. It's a dagga may teen. Some weird stuff going on right now. 01:07:26 Speaker 3: That's a man that you would take your entire front end of yours. So I see that glistening up quick whoa and then loads everywhere, man wide, loads all over the place. 01:07:43 Speaker 2: Great. I know. I'm sorry y'all. 01:07:45 Speaker 1: Aighty h t is thick around here. I see, I can see the deer's body. I put my bino's up, can see his body. This is I'm gonna go ahead and just give a plug. Okay, we get some some really neat free stuff. We're not really rich, guys, but we got some stuff because people give. 01:08:03 Speaker 2: Us stuff free, and it's actually very nice. And I have these sig what's it called something? Yeah, Zulu six, but what's that? What's the function called? 01:08:13 Speaker 1: Uh, stabilizing bino's And in these intense moments when you're like kind of breathing hard and you're at a position kind of holding up one hand like they are money in that stuff, And so I put those up, and I can see the shadow of his antler on his body, and I realize he's a big enough buck, just like I'm oh, I'm serious about this deer. 01:08:36 Speaker 2: And so I I now these dos are out at ninety. 01:08:39 Speaker 1: I grab my antlers and I just go to whipping the tar out of this bush right beside me and just making it, just making it rain, okay, And sure enough I can see him he moves after I snort with heze again, and I'm thinking, Okay, it either went bad or good, So I'm just gonna keep on doing what I'm doing and either we don't see him again or we do. 01:08:59 Speaker 2: And sure enough, he pops out at like ninety and he's a wide ten point and I'm like, oh, baby, that's a nice deer and should you just let it fly? Yeah? Right there, Just just crank that thing down on your side until you feel. 01:09:12 Speaker 1: Resistant clear and that's another reason to shoot fur fletch you get more clearance. But ends up he's the same deer that we saw earlier that was kind of the bully, and he's got a harem of seven dos. 01:09:27 Speaker 2: On November first, he is like the dog. 01:09:30 Speaker 1: Now, I will say this, I think that what would happen is that around November sixth or seventh, he will get kicked out of that harem by maybe somebody even bigger. Maybe not, but I think that I think that does happen from time to time. But he'll probably would get to breed some dose in between there. 01:09:49 Speaker 3: So he's the baddest dude in the area for now. Yeah, and that that gets me excited when he's the baddest dude. And that happened on like a November one in Kansas and buck Truck, I think, or maybe it was the year before that big wide deer that you chaste. 01:10:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the year before. 01:10:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, that deer was out of ham too, and he was also probably the baddest dude the whole season. But yeah, so out here in the Prairie States, I think they act like elk a little bit more. You know, they kind of have the hair and maybe they do that. 01:10:27 Speaker 2: And so. 01:10:29 Speaker 1: Anyways, he is definitely interested in what we got going on. I grun at him. He's like, he's just I'm steadily ramping it up. 01:10:38 Speaker 2: And I have a good amount of experienced elk hunting, especially calling at elk in September, and I was thinking this whole time, is like, I'm gonna just gonna treat this exactly like an elk hunt. I'm gonna call this deer. 01:10:48 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make so much noise and sound so much like a deer that he isn't gonna have any other option but to think I'm another deer, Like there's no way a human would be down there because this is making so many deer noises and so, like I said, it's a constant snortwheedze, grunt back and forth with this buck. I only heard him grunting or like grunt, and I only hear him once, but I bet he's doing it back at me more often. I heard him do a grunt, snortwheeze combo. Have you ever heard that before? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's weird. 01:11:27 Speaker 2: Uh. It's kind of hard to replicate as a human, but I'm not sure you have to. And this is another thing, and that realistic thing that people get so caught up on the realistic thing and trying to make all these crazy noises. I think about it with Elk all the time. 01:11:40 Speaker 1: Like with Elkie, literally need to know how to do like three things and then you need to know how to put a motion behind those things, and you're gonna be a good Elk caller. 01:11:50 Speaker 2: And I think deer hunts a lot like that. It's not I mean, uh, yeah, that's anywhere. 01:11:56 Speaker 3: You've been practicing that snort with you so much that you've gotten pretty good at it. 01:12:00 Speaker 2: Uh, thank you. You know, when we were rattling together, we won't talk too much about. 01:12:06 Speaker 3: It, but I looked at you at one point when you hit a storm where he's and I was pointed at you from. 01:12:12 Speaker 2: It had a little bit of that. Yeah, you know, I got this. There's like a technique to it. It is. 01:12:17 Speaker 1: I started you like kind of blow some air from your bottom lip up into your top lip. 01:12:22 Speaker 2: It's almost like making that monster truck noise when you were a kid, you know about that thing. 01:12:28 Speaker 3: They don't they don't always have that, but there are times I've heard where they have that little monster truck thing in there. 01:12:34 Speaker 1: And uh, And I think that all deer are gonna have different voices like humans do. Maybe not to the extent of the variety that we have where you have little mousey people and then you know I'm talking about, and. 01:12:47 Speaker 2: You got some some boisterous you know, like Jodny Cash kind of guys or whatever. 01:12:51 Speaker 1: But I think that you're allowed some variety in there so much so that I'm not afraid to go out a deer and and him think it's actually a gro and not use a grunt tube. 01:13:01 Speaker 2: I didn't do that. I was using a grunt tube something then. 01:13:03 Speaker 1: But either way, I hear him do that when we can't see him, and I can hear him whipping the tar out of a stick over the knob. He'd come down till now he'd come down the hill, so I'm guessing he is at like sixty and I can hear this. He's just breaking a stick, just absolutely wearing out a little tree. And then it stops and I'm thinking, the old baby, here he comes. He's gonna come right around this corner the bottom of this hill. I'm gonna rip him. 01:13:30 Speaker 2: In like twenty five. I'm like, you know, knocked on with. 01:13:32 Speaker 1: A little bit of pressure on my d loop, you know what I mean, Like it's on, brother, and we're just waiting and it seems like a long time. 01:13:39 Speaker 2: It's probably thirty seconds, and all of a sudden, I see motion in my left and I look up the hill and this buck is walking right at us over the top of the hill at like fifteen yards. As bowed up as a buck gets, he comes up ready to whoop my tail. And it's like a little intimidating, not that is, but it was like, oh, baby, this is what I live for. It's like whenever you if you play middle linebacker ever, and you see you get that key on that fullback where they're just gonna run into a gap, and you're like, oh, bring it on, you know, like I'm about to knock the tar out of you. And that's how it felt. It was like, oh, I'm getting excited, right and tell him this, you know, And I was. I couldn't turn and draw. 01:14:20 Speaker 1: He already was on us, right, So we're just kind of here and he comes up over the hill and he is like bug eyed, turning his head kind of sideways. 01:14:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know you're there, brother, And we have we have essentially ramped this deer up to as fired up as he can be, or so I thought. He comes over the hill started the rest of South Dakota, does his posture, and he doesn't see the buck. 01:14:48 Speaker 1: We're there, like in practically in the open, but he doesn't recognize us as a deer, and he's so mad that he is only thinking about one thing, and that's another buck. 01:14:58 Speaker 2: I think if I had put my antlers up in my head, he mighta would have came down there tried to fight us. Yeah, how sick would that be? Be scared? For sure? That's time to get scared, for sure. Yeah. 01:15:06 Speaker 1: He probably weighs two hundred and thirty pounds, so maybe it's a little more than me. 01:15:11 Speaker 2: Currently. Can't wait till this brother give me Azza four weeks here, and he did a weird thing. I've never seen it, dear Do. He came up over the hill that deer wasn't there. He stayed bowed up, turned his head kind of sideways, and slowly slinked backwards walked exactly like in reverse to where I couldn't see him anymore. And it was like, that was strange. 01:15:35 Speaker 1: And then all these dos during this time are within sixty to forty yards of us, and one of them blows gets weird and runs up the hill. And actually they came back and kind of calmed down and then ran up the hill like they accepted that we were not a threat or something. 01:15:52 Speaker 2: I don't know. 01:15:53 Speaker 1: It was such a strange thing, but I've been in these situations before where you just do some crazy stuff so much so that they are just like, oh, that's another deer or something. I don't know what that is, but it's not a threat in the sense of my life is in danger. So they kind of go back up the hill where they were betted, and he goes up and like goes to the spot where that dough that kind of pinned us the first time. Was he kind of follows them up the hill and I snort wheez him again. He stops, turns around. Actually we had while we couldn't see him, we repositioned up the hill just a little bit and it was like the move and Greg's just suggested this. I want to give him some credit here. We moved up the hill like you know, straight line distance it would be nothing, but you know, we climbed like fifteen feet. 01:16:39 Speaker 3: You know, they give me Greg one day, man, one day. You got to give me in some time. Had that guy only on that Texas public land hunt last year? 01:16:46 Speaker 2: Oh that's true, that's true, and you killed. So we're saying, get him. So we go up to this ceedar tree. We got a little bit more cover. 01:16:57 Speaker 1: We're kind of in the shade and where like in close together, so we probably look somewhat like a deer because it's just like a big body, you know too humans. 01:17:07 Speaker 2: And I start raking that seat or real hard. 01:17:10 Speaker 1: That deer turns around, kind of comes down the hill a couple of steps and he goes to pawing the ground like you ever seen that Bugs Bunny cartoon where he's a conquista door, not a conkeys door, a mat a door and what it is called. He like familiar, you know, he has the red thing or whatever it's called. And he that bull is losing his mind pawing the ground. That's what this deer is doing, pawing the ground. I'm start with He's and back and forth with him. 01:17:38 Speaker 2: He's quartering to I range him. 01:17:42 Speaker 1: It's within my comfortable range, but barely, and I'm thinking, you know this is going to be this is the shot. 01:17:49 Speaker 2: I mean, you're out here in the open country. You don't get them close often. 01:17:53 Speaker 1: And so I practice make sure i'm effective out to you know what most people will consider it ethical, and then I practice beyond that just in case you need to follow up one real far. All I have to say is I'm comfortable with the situation, especially on solid ground standing up, and I'm only gonna take a shot if the deer is in a favoral position for a shot, and also I feel. 01:18:17 Speaker 2: Good about it. 01:18:17 Speaker 1: So he starts pawing the ground, I snort wheeze at him, and he just goes to pin all over his legs and just absolutely losing his mind. Over there, He's like just snorting and licking his nose. You can see slobbery coming down out of his face, of his mouth. I mean, it is insane. He is just the most fired up of every single white tail deer. And finally he like faces us right on, like come and get me guy, and I snort wheeze at him again, and he goes to pawing the ground again, and then I kind of went quiet for just a little bit. And within all this I have drawn my bow four different or this is three times I've drawn and let down because I think he's gonna turn out and I'm gonna get my perfect broadside shot. And I'm kind of like got a little mental clock going, and I make sure they don't leave my bow drawn more than thirty seconds, because that's kind of around the fatigue point. I mean, I can hold for quite a long time, Tyler, see me hold for some ridiculous amount of times, but it doesn't usually end well, you know, So, like thirty seconds is like a good amount of time to be able to hold your bow and pull off a good shot. And then as soon as he will Paul, I'll let down again. Well, finally he turns out like I wanted him to. I draw and he's like kinda gonna slow step up. I gave him a just like a little half snort wheeze, and he stopped. He freezes and goes to pawn. 01:19:41 Speaker 2: I level my bubble, take the extra second, like we've been talking about. I put my pen where I think I want it, and I say it's a little bit too low. He's you know, he gets out there a little bit. 01:19:53 Speaker 1: Your margin for air is a little bit less, So I bring it up into kind of dead center, all right, which isn't bad. You know, you're definitely still gonna hit a lot of good stuff. But it's not like aiming for the heart. And that's okay, man, because you you hit him in the in the lungs, they're they're dead meat, right, and everything feels perfect. The deer is still I know, he's not gonna really move at all because he's so fired up he's not gonna jump. He's also far enough away and it's windy that he's not gonna do anything. I released the arrow and I just watched this thing drop right in and smoke him. I mean, it's a little higher than midline, but I'm thinking, okay, it looks pretty good, and he like does this like weird bound thing because I hit him. 01:20:37 Speaker 2: I think I didn't get a full pass through. I think it punched in the opposite shoulder, so he kind of was like stove up and he did like the opposite of a mule kick, where he did like a big horn sheep like billy goat type thing. 01:20:49 Speaker 1: And as he's doing that, it's like somebody punched a hole in the you know, bag of juice or something. I mean is, yeah, blood goes to pooring and I just I didn't even remember saying it, but I said something with the inflection of it looks pretty good. And yeah, he ran up the hill, which was weird, but all the deer pour out the other side of the thicket and we just hear crashing. I see him flash across the hole and then I hear crashing and we know pretty much right away he's toast and he died within like five seconds. It was sick, so fun. Yeah, dude, that was a long story, so I'm sorry. I'll it was very exciting, so I wanted to tell it. I wanted to give those thoughts of the of how calling can work and like how you can be aggressive and this and that you didn't watch him fall though, right he. 01:21:39 Speaker 2: May have been fallen when I saw him flash through that opening, But so were you able to how how quick from the time you decided to go track him did you see him? We can you say that again? 01:21:51 Speaker 3: Understand what time you started going to track him? How long did it take to see him? 01:21:58 Speaker 2: So we went over to where I shot because I wanted to see like where he was pawing. It's it's just a cool experience. I wanted to just soak it up, you know what I mean. And so we get on blood right there right away, and within two minutes we had him found. Uh. He probably ran a total of like sixty yards, so you but. 01:22:20 Speaker 3: You couldn't you had I mean it was it was thick enough that you had to get pretty fairly close. 01:22:24 Speaker 1: To him to see he was up in some cedars. Yeah, yeah, I mean it was like I had to be ten yards from him before I found him. 01:22:29 Speaker 2: And what did you do? Did you get to do any neck crops either? Did I did? 01:22:34 Speaker 1: I hit both lungs at the top of the lungs, and I also cut the a order, which is just if you ever cut the air order on deer, it's their toast host. I mean, it's just the it's the largest uh I guess that would be a a artery, right, It runs the length of spine. It's also the top of the heart, and then it turns into the uh well, it splits and goes into the for more rolls, which are also super deadly. But I mean, a order on a deer is probably as big around as your pinky. So that's why the blood was instant, you know, And that's why you could even see when he took off. The blood was in like three yard increments, which is pretty cool. But yeah, he was a he's a big ten point kind of shorter times, but good masks and and just absolute bully and just a deer that I was stoked to shoot. 01:23:25 Speaker 2: He was just he's a beautiful buck, big old white throat patch. 01:23:28 Speaker 1: The footage, I can't wait for y'all to see it, man, It's just it's one of my it's the top five deer in counter of in my life. You want to go see the deer's he's on Instagram, both of these deer are ye and uh, the videos will be out pretty soon. 01:23:44 Speaker 2: For sure, to congrats on everything. Man. 01:23:46 Speaker 3: It's like, uh, it was it was, you know, a killer way to start man the season for you and to get the Element crew going. There are lots of other arrows that have been flung, so we'll talk more about that in the future. I I have something that I quickly will ask you here in a second, but I wanted to see if you had any other parting thoughts about this deer, these experiences or whatever. 01:24:13 Speaker 2: I think that. 01:24:18 Speaker 1: Messing around with deer and being all up in the mix is one of the coolest things there is. Like, y'all, if you've been with the Element for a long time. 01:24:27 Speaker 2: But you're about nearby ilogists, don't feel dude. 01:24:29 Speaker 3: I'll say that this is my parting where not my parting words, because I've got one more thing, Uh, you are. There's there is nobody that compares to what I've seen you do on the ground, And there's some there's some great ground hunters out there, and there's probably guys that are better than you that we don't even know about. Right as far as just watching you get out there on the ground, uh, and then watching other things that I've seen in like YouTube or whatever. I mean, there's some guys on YouTube that can do it, no doubt, and that are good at it. But the things that you do, the way that you think quick down your feet, which people can tell but they listen to a podcast how fast you can think on your feet. That stuff like translates into the deer woods and you come up with these wild, creative things that like work man, and you also you also really care about like biology, I guess would be the best way to say it. But like everything flora and fauna, like it impresses you and it intrigues you, and so like I just I truly I don't want to like not inspire people while you're trying to inspire people, but to pull off what you do. 01:25:41 Speaker 2: Is crazy. 01:25:43 Speaker 3: And like what you do and why you can pull it off is because you know the name of that grass species that you're stepping on while you're out there, and you know the name of you know, the white eyed vieo that sings in the spring that comes through you know, and you know, you know what all these different like I don't know what you'd call it exactly, but these different like areas that certain organisms fit into and categorically speaking, like within the landscape and these things like you just you you are intrigued by stuff. You know, this stuff and it all all that comes together for you to know. Like also just like your brilliant mind to just like creatively flip on a switch and go boom, snortweedze when I'm drawing back or when I'm about to draw back, and just that they'll see that, you know. And the thing is, it's like it's like a card player almost like the card player doesn't know for sure that that guy has an ace, but he has a pretty good feeling about it, and when he decides to fold, it's the best decision most of the time, right, And so it's just like that with you. It's like you don't know that that that buck you know you're you're kind of calling is you know, like bluff. You know, I actually think that you are really hyped up from the rut. And if I do a snort weeeze right now, you'll take three extra steps, give me a shot and your toast, and like most of the time it works out, and I would say that like every once in a while it doesn't. But the more you do it, the more experience you have, the more things you learn, the more you Casey Smith get better at it and have higher success rates. It's like it's it's impressive day. Thank you impressed. Very humbling thing for you to say it. I mean, I appreciate that. 01:27:21 Speaker 2: I mean, I just. 01:27:25 Speaker 3: I feel like now I have to have an. 01:27:29 Speaker 1: Area, have like an Oscar acceptance speech for all the nice things you just said it. I mean, no, dude, but I'll say this about kind of kind of in rebuttal to what you said. I am a faith motivated guy. By everything that I do, I try to be at least by everything that I do. 01:27:48 Speaker 2: And I think that. 01:27:51 Speaker 1: We all have specific roles in God's ultimate plan, and I think one of mine is that I want to acknowledge his creation to the best of my ability. 01:28:08 Speaker 2: And the way I do that is to try to understand his processes to the extreme. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's kind of like you said this. 01:28:23 Speaker 3: I don't know if there's you said this, maybe on Mark's podcasts when you're on there or fresh, but like be fruitful and multiply. 01:28:30 Speaker 2: Yeah it doesn't. Yeah, because like it's so cool. 01:28:34 Speaker 1: It's like God's first command to creation was be fruitful and multiply to Adam and even then to all these critters, and we are right now taking that command and using it through our uh specific command to humans to have dominion over those other criators so that we can shoot a deer and eat it and also have a sick encounter and and be able to then point to God say, man, uh, the reason that you can call me creative is you're acknowledging that it's still a subordinate level to the Creator. 01:29:11 Speaker 2: You know. That's where we get the word creative. Yeah, from creation and the Creator. Right, so creature too. By the way, whenever you hear all these scientists say the word creature, they don't know it, but they are giving a nod to the fact that it's created stuff, which just makes me feel real good. But gotcha. Yeah, thank you man, that's some that's some nice things to say. That's good man. And I just I'm thankful to get to get out and mess around in that and to you know, I'm thankful coloring firsthand from you. Man. The conservation is a word that's really flown thrown around flippantly and. 01:29:51 Speaker 1: For good reason because it's pretty ambiguous, which means like you can use it for a lot of different things. 01:29:56 Speaker 2: You know, you can call shooting a pig conservation, you can call collecting wildflower seeds. Conservation. You know, you can call uh. I mean maybe if you really wanted to, you can call windmills. 01:30:10 Speaker 3: You know, conservations a legislative process, you could call conservation. 01:30:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, some of them are stretches, and depends on who you are, it's a relative term, right, But like, uh, it's not preservation. And I feel like part of conservation is getting a good understanding of what we're dealing with here, you know, Like I'm out there and I look at guys like Lewis and Clark. Okay, I'm not a big like savant of Lewis and Clark. I haven't read their book. I have the Journal, and i've i've you know, watched some documentaries and this and that and the other. 01:30:41 Speaker 2: But I think about them, James j Audubon. 01:30:45 Speaker 1: Those are all guys who are monumental in the study of species and stuff, and and they're all out there taking field samples, which means killing stuff and bringing it back and examining it. 01:30:55 Speaker 2: And then I think about guys like g Record Mendel. 01:30:57 Speaker 1: Like when I talk about a spiritual uh, like, I guess you'd say example that I really like Gregor Mendel is a monk, and he's the father of genetics. Gregor Mendel is a monk who tended a garden and figured out that if he crossed a pink flower with a white flower, he would throw a pink flower. But if he crossed a white flower with a white flower, he would throw a white flower. And you've crossed the pink flower with pink flower, you then could still throw a white flower. 01:31:24 Speaker 2: And so like he came up. That's what we call pundit squares now, which is a whole. 01:31:29 Speaker 1: This is sorry, we're not doing a biologize, but I guess my example is that like this guy changed what we know of as biology forever, and it was because he recognized that God had processes that he created so that we could point to him as a creator and say, look at how complex this is. This has the hand of God on It is not something that came from muck and a lightning strike, you know what I mean. 01:31:57 Speaker 2: And so I think that when whenever I. 01:32:02 Speaker 1: Like, that wasn't an emotional like boohoo moment like I have had we have had. It was it was like a high, you know, like adrenaline, dog like just this was insane. And I think that no matter what the moment is, I need to work on and be better. But still I think I try to point towards God in those moments. Back, Man, this was awesome. Thank you for the blessing. You know, it's poured out in that situation. But that's my I think that's my overall take. Can I add one thing to the end of that. 01:32:33 Speaker 3: Let's hear I made a post about this this week because I sent it in a really pretty pretty location. I took a picture of it, posted it. This isn't the easiest thing to hear, guys, but having, you know, throwing a nod to creation and the Creator is awesome. But it's enough to condemn you. So you have to be saved from the things that you the mistakes that you make right, the things that you have made mistakes on uh sins would call them. So you gotta you have to have a savior somewhere, right, so you know, to to sit out in the tree stand, not go to church and understand uh more about Jesus, the Savior who came into the world to save it, not condemn it. Right as he said in his own words, you have you can't just sit out there and go man, there's a creator, and this is my church, right, we gotta we have to live together in communion because that's what we're designed for. Relationships are the the the fundamental of our existence pretty much. So anyway, I just kind of wanted to cap that with, like, man, it's awesome to to but your perspective and I'm saying I'm saying this because I know Casey's perspective and and that he knows that, oh sure. 01:33:53 Speaker 2: What you're in. 01:33:54 Speaker 3: So anyway, the last thing that I wanted to ask you, we are doing this on elect should not and so when this comes out, it will be post election. 01:34:05 Speaker 2: Uh but just slightly. 01:34:07 Speaker 3: I think I think it depends on hands. Got how late our young twenty year old wants to stay up. I need a I need a prediction. I need a prediction. 01:34:20 Speaker 2: Oh man, you're gonna put me on spot because people. 01:34:22 Speaker 3: Are going to know if you're wrong or right. And I need a percentage. Man, Uh, you can, you certainly can. We usually do on the element for the most part, but you could definitely offend some people. 01:34:35 Speaker 2: So, uh, this is there's no I. 01:34:45 Speaker 1: Believe election fraud exists, and I am not the most fervent of Trump supporters, but I think he is the current man for the job, and I want him to win, and I want to to win badly, mostly for two reasons, the economic impact of a Trump presidency and also I am a pro lifer. That is my number one voting motivation, followed closely by the right to bear arms, because I feel like if I have the right to bear arms, then freedom of speech falls in line with that, because you can't make me shut up if I have arms. And that's why I also put pro life in front of arms, because I really, if y'all know me very well, I am very libertarian in my views, and that means I care about people's personal rights. And there's no one that has more rights infringed on than the innocent unborn, and so. 01:35:53 Speaker 2: I care a lot about that. Well said, But anyways, I gotta kind of recover from that motion. But yeah, but it's good man. I don't know that. I don't know Trump's heart, but I know what he will surround himself with. 01:36:14 Speaker 1: I know that currently conservatism conservativism aligns the closest with my personal beliefs, and that's where I'm going to vote. And I also feel like America is tired of the junk, and so I think that we could see potentially a landslide bigger than twenty sixteen. 01:36:37 Speaker 2: But I think we have to outvote the cheat. And that's me speaking what I truly think is the case. 01:36:44 Speaker 1: And I might look like a fool because this will come out after, but this is pre results of I'm saying this stuff. 01:36:50 Speaker 3: No, you can look like a fool like that, for sure, but so I didn't mean to make you look like a full of fats case. 01:36:56 Speaker 2: No, I don't care. But I'm the guy who's where he's thirty five times, y know, I I. 01:37:03 Speaker 3: You know, were very similar people man as far as the way we think about things and believe a lot of times and uh, i'd say you you pretty much nailed it. Now I need the prediction. It's just like retfresh, where you actually have to give a number. 01:37:17 Speaker 1: I think that Trump's gonna have over three hundred electoral votes, yeah, Lee, Yeah, which I think he? 01:37:25 Speaker 2: I think he had three oh five, three o nine and twenty sixteen. I can't remember. Sure, I might be wrong about that, but I think you have over three hundred electoral votes. 01:37:33 Speaker 3: Man, It sure would seem that way, And I we drive around the country a lot. Yeah, and I know most of what I see is at home, right, and it's Texas, and it's the rural East Texas. It's it's different than other places. And there's some big old city places that things are different. But I'll say this, I have not seen one Harris flag yet. 01:37:57 Speaker 2: No, and I have seen it. I've seen a couple, but they are in the suspected locations. 01:38:04 Speaker 3: Yeah, but the ain't nobody flying flags. I hadn't seen any of them, No, not one. Yeah, So I think hoping so too. Because economic impact also is something you and I as we drive around the country deal with quite a bit. 01:38:17 Speaker 1: Man. I was this tugged at my heart shrinks so bad. I was in a the tiniest of towns if you know where we're from. I was in a town the size of Point, which is smaller than Memory and uh, you know, probably eight hundred folks something like that. And there's a little grocery store in this town and you go in, there's deer heads in there, and it's actually fairly well equipped. 01:38:41 Speaker 2: I mean I was. 01:38:42 Speaker 1: I was impressed by this little, tiny grocery store because they kind of have to have a grocery store there because it's you know, a long way from other towns. 01:38:49 Speaker 2: It's just what happens when you're out in deer country, which is cool. 01:38:52 Speaker 1: And I you know, going around and there's some things that aren't great, Like the produce isn't the best. You know, they're all they really have for ashes, some potatoes, and there's some like overripe bananas, and I mean it's it's it's very much like not great on that front, you know. But there's some other stuff. You know, you had some some like kind of hippie brands of some a couple of things. It's like this is kind of cool. Well, long story short. I get my groceries that I need to kind of make it through a couple of days here at deer Camp, and I go to the cash register and the guy who's checking me out is by about my age, and we start kind of chit chatting, you know, and uh, I tell him there deer hunting, and I ask if he hunts, is like, oh, yeah, I love deer hunting. 01:39:37 Speaker 2: Man. 01:39:37 Speaker 1: You don't get to go as much as I used to because they've got a family and this and that I love talking about families now it's just like, you know, it's a it's a thing you do once you got kids, you know, and ends up this guy has almost the exact same spread of age on kids that I do. 01:39:50 Speaker 2: He's got three kids as youngest as a girl though, where I have all boys. And we are. 01:39:59 Speaker 1: Just motorcycle with no tail, Like, oh that ain't good. Yeah, we're having a you know, a nice moment. We're we're connecting and talking about life and stuff, you know. And he tells me, he kind of opens up a little bit and he's like, Man, I'm to be honest with you. I just now got to order my first truck, meaning getting supplies for the store, and over a month because times have been so tough, I haven't had the revenue that I can order more groceries. And I mean, I don't know if y'all know too much about economics, but you have to have a product to sell if you're in the business of selling. And so like it hit me hard, man, and I told him, and this was my chance to maybe minister a little bit. I was like, man, I will pray for you in that, you know, kind of sincerely like telling him, because it's just tough to hear. You got a guy who you know is me but just in a different part of the country and figuring out a way. A small business owner trying to do things right. I mean, he owns the store, and he's in there working at the store. You know, just a cool dude, likes to hunt this and that, and he he's worried they'd own the store for you know, three years, and he's worried he's going have to close his doors because things are tough. 01:41:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, man, that is it's it is a red blooded American thing to do. 01:41:19 Speaker 1: And I'm not the most patriotic guy, but I mean, I do believe in the freedoms that we have and I love the place that we get to live. And it hurts my heart to know that the business decisions that are not business decisions, but like the. 01:41:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, the economic decisions on the. 01:41:34 Speaker 1: Federal level that are made where it's printing money, sending money overseas, all this junk is having an effect where like a good dude who is from here can't make it, yeah, and doing a business that traditionally makes it, you know, and that's got to change. 01:41:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, people up there and need food. 01:41:54 Speaker 3: But Here's the thing is, at some point, when groceries get so high, people really start to worry about, well, am I going to spend fifty dollars more by going there? Or could I spend you know, twenty five bucks in gas and get you know, going to Walmart or whatever? 01:42:13 Speaker 2: But I got to drive an hour or whatever. 01:42:15 Speaker 3: You know, that's the kind of decisions people have to start making because things are so expensive, you know. And I'm with you on that, man. It's it's hard to see. There's a lot of things that need fixing. And I'm hoping that whoever is the the winter after this night, I hope whoever that is that truly truly tries to fix some of the problems that we have going on instead of just you know, being a political liar like a lot of people are. 01:42:45 Speaker 1: So Yeah, and I could go into a lot deeper political ideologies and stuff, but you know, I think that I've expressed myself enough on some things. But yeah, I do believe that the current Republican ticket is is our best answer at the helm. 01:43:02 Speaker 3: Yeah, well that sounds like an endorsement to me. But brother, they're gonna come out in time then to help. But I appreciate the the h that I get to run a business with you man, and that absolutely due I get to learn about these deer from you. 01:43:21 Speaker 2: Catch you all kinds of stuff we're about to get to learn about. Tyler Jones is killing ability on the next one, So y'all remember to listen to the next one and remember this is your element live