00:00:00 Speaker 1: On case and I'm Tyl and you're listening to the Element Podcast. 00:00:03 Speaker 2: Finally, what's going on? Everybody? Welcome to the Element Podcast, brought to you by First Like Gear. We are doing some hunting and it is so good. And I want to apologize to you right now, it's been like two weeks probably since we've. 00:00:27 Speaker 3: Done a podcast. That's not gonna be how. 00:00:29 Speaker 2: It is, but we've just been super busy over the past couple of weeks. But that means we have a lot to talk about. So you're about to get just rut unindated. 00:00:40 Speaker 1: Inundated, inundated, h yeah, unindated. Actually we are going to undate them because we're going to go to talking about stuff that's pre rut. 00:00:47 Speaker 3: First. Well, I think it's no, it's probably overarching concepts of stuff we learned in the pre rut. 00:00:53 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's still could matter, it still could be something that translates for us. 00:00:58 Speaker 3: Inundated. 00:00:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sorry, kind of got that little mixed up there. It's the thing, Mark, can you like still laugh at me about what did I say the other day? 00:01:08 Speaker 3: What he said? 00:01:08 Speaker 1: It was supposed to be you said something and then I was like palatable and then he said palpable. He also corrected me last year on some sort of like diurnal period or something. 00:01:18 Speaker 2: I can't correct him on his width of his shoulders too. So it's fine, guys if you don't know. We do the Reugh Fresh radio podcast every week on the Wire and hunt Feed. Uh so, Uh, it's a pretty good spot to kind of get updated on what's going around the country. 00:01:33 Speaker 3: Uh not inundated. Yeah, Whereas over here on the. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: Other podcast, we're gonna talk about tips, tactics, and overarching concepts to help you kill bigger, better, more all the whitetail bucks. 00:01:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, this sounds like the hook line and sinker right there up in here. 00:01:50 Speaker 2: So the concept that we're gonna talk about is the difference in hunting pressured and unpressured the year and why it's a okay to do both, but you have to treat them a lot differently. And I would say that one of the big things to maybe understand is where your deer fall on that scale. It's kind of hard to do because I think everybody likes to believe they hunt the most pressure deer in the most And I would say. 00:02:21 Speaker 1: You mean, there's some comments on YouTube that say. You know, every time I was up there like twenty foot, they were saying. 00:02:29 Speaker 3: Me, Yeah, that's right. 00:02:31 Speaker 2: So I think that we could all take a step back and say, maybe the hunting pressure isn't as strong where we are as. 00:02:39 Speaker 3: We think it is. What nothing? What nothing? What'd you think? I was gonna say? This is funny. 00:02:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I am blessed to get to hunt in a lot of different places. 00:02:53 Speaker 3: Where I am currently, the hunting pressure is very low. That's very nice. Uh. 00:02:59 Speaker 2: Where I've been recently, hunting pressure is low and that's nice. And where it was before that, hunting pressure is pretty low and that's nice. It's like there's kind of a reoccurring theme here. If you want to kill some deer, finding some deer that are unpressure is a good thing. 00:03:14 Speaker 3: I have hunted. 00:03:16 Speaker 1: Ask you a couple of questions, Sure, why why do you keep hunting deer that are the hunting pressure is low? 00:03:26 Speaker 3: On? 00:03:27 Speaker 2: Because a couple of reasons. If the hunting pressure is low, trophy qualities used to higher. That's probably my motivating factor in all my deer hunts is trophy quality. 00:03:39 Speaker 1: So are you just just paying for big old premium access or how are you getting to obtain low pressured different ways. 00:03:47 Speaker 2: I'd say my number one way is mapping and looking at places and trying to understand figure. 00:03:54 Speaker 1: If you're just going on an awesome hunt, it's sometimes you're having to work really hard to get to that point. So the fact like earning a deer is not always in hunting the hardest deer to hunt. It's getting to the hardest deer to get to maybe. 00:04:06 Speaker 2: Maybe or getting to the deer that no one thinks about, or you know, there's there's a gambit of different reasons why deer might not be pressured. 00:04:16 Speaker 1: Or you could pay for it. Yeah, right, and in fact pay for some exclusive access. 00:04:19 Speaker 2: We pay for some access the other day and it was not easy hunt, No, itn't. 00:04:24 Speaker 1: In fact, you this is the most tiring hunting I've done h this year. And well there was one day in North Dakota. 00:04:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, so. 00:04:33 Speaker 2: Speaking of you, that might been a higher pressure thing that where you were talking about there. So we have hunted some really high pressure stuff. And you can kill big deer in both places. You can have some terrible hunts in both places. But you you have to understand how your deer view their world. Do they view their world and have a concept of human hunters or do they view their world. And there's the general deer prey species, you know what I mean. 00:05:02 Speaker 3: There's a lot of deer. 00:05:04 Speaker 2: Let's take a state like Texas for instance. There are deer that live in what's called the Golden Triangle of Texas where it's down in southwest Texas. It's a super high deer density area, very luscious landscape, very monotonous landscape with a ton of variety. And you have deer that probably don't quite understand they're being hunted that often, but they still are wary. They're still white till deer. And then you go to say, like some of the wm a's in Texas that are very highly pressured I'm not gonna say better or worse or whatever than other states, but a very pressure wm A that doesn't have a lot of deer on it at all. The holy capacity is pretty low. Those deer they know what a human is. They are freaked out by them. They know to look up in the trees. They know that ground scent means to put your tail up and run. I mean here recently I've had deer like cross my ground scent they'll come to it and put their head up and then go. And that's that's nice, man, It's nice when you can. 00:06:13 Speaker 3: Get away with that. 00:06:14 Speaker 1: Well, my the buck that I was shot in Kansas last year, that video released what two weeks ago or whenever. That that buck when he's coming in, he crosses our ground scent, which I didn't think he was going to go the way he did, so I wasn't supposed I wasn't supposing that would happen. And he stopped and smelled it for a minute, and I thought, oh, he's going to turn around and go back to the way I'm going to shooting corner away at distance. And he worked his way through it. You know, it wasn't like he wasn't completely I mean he's it was a rut right November tenth. 00:06:43 Speaker 2: I mean, by the way, while we're talking about Kansas year, Kansas deer from last year is a giant. He is on YouTube now. My Kansas deer from last year looks like a moose. He's on YouTube now. So go over to the l might have been part moves, dude, I mean ranges overlaps. 00:06:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit in there. 00:07:00 Speaker 2: Maybe if you haven't go over the Element YouTube channel subscribed there and check out those videos. 00:07:06 Speaker 3: We'd really appreciate it. 00:07:06 Speaker 2: I mean those are kind of like you know, they're kind of like our masterpieces from last season. 00:07:11 Speaker 3: It feels like we actually have some more stuff coming. It's pretty good too. 00:07:14 Speaker 2: But i'd really appreciate you watching those and leaving a comment telling us what you think. But yeah, like the ground sent thing is a big deal. 00:07:22 Speaker 3: So I think. 00:07:24 Speaker 2: We're gonna kind of refer back to a place that we've hunted recently that was fairly low pressure. And you said it's because it's kind of October to your hunting. That was kind of the main reason. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: I mean, I think especially when you look at it in the short term, Yeah, that is a big part of it. Like it's because why what's the factors that make it a little ninety five degrees? For one, Like nobody else wanted to go out there, but it is. It was getting like mid late October or something like that, right, so like it's starting to get to where a couple of things are at play. Right, there may have been a frost. Actually, there certainly was a frost at some point around there, So I mean you could tell from the foliage, you know what I mean. And therefore the permons had turned and persimmons were a pretty big part of that that. You know, I would say the trip was successful. There's you know, we didn't kill one, but you know, we definitely have a chance to go back and maybe kill one in the near future hopefully. 00:08:28 Speaker 3: So that's the that's what I'm excited about. 00:08:31 Speaker 1: You got we got to learn something, see some deer, and maybe not make it a successful trip. But the reason that it's low pressure is because it's not the rut at the time. So you're getting out there and you're getting to hunt deer that are low pressure. They're still patternable because they haven't been knocked off of their patterns yet. And and they also the landscape has changed because of a frost at some point, even though it was ninety five, you know, one of the days we were there or whatever, or ninety one or whatever it was. 00:08:58 Speaker 2: You know, in those situations, I have found that observations and trail cameras are a big deal because those deer aren't pressured, they're not getting bumped around on a daily basis, and if there is any like interference, it's likely from something that they're used to. You know, maybe there's a a dairy farmer running around out there or something. You know that they're just like used to seeing his truck or something. You know. So, like in general, I guess what I'm saying is that in the low pressured situation, the patterns are recognizable, and maybe they change. 00:09:38 Speaker 3: Here's what I noticed. They might change. 00:09:41 Speaker 2: Where you have a different deer doing the same thing, but they're still the same pattern. 00:09:45 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:09:46 Speaker 1: Well, and here's the difference in like a low pressure situation a high pressure situation sometimes is in a low pressure situation you can you can figure out the patterns and rely on that. And a high pressure system for situation. 00:10:00 Speaker 3: You might not mind weather affixed to your head. 00:10:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, you might not be able to hunt those patterns because I mean, how many times, especially on Texas stuff, have we been like, dude, there might have been a dude in here yesterday and mess this whole thing, you know what I mean? Yeah, In fact, the guy you talking about, the guy walked in on us and got it stand after he killed a deer. I wanted to think about that, but something different, you know what I mean, Like that happened the night before we went in there. We thought it was gonna be Money's early or mid November. 00:10:30 Speaker 3: Whatever. 00:10:31 Speaker 2: Well, we had it somewhere this morning that got some pressure. We saw camera camera and then we went in today and you know that truck camera. 00:10:42 Speaker 1: That's like a week ago when the people were there, but we went in today. It had daylight those at the time. 00:10:47 Speaker 2: Right, Being a Sunday means that on a Saturday. By the way, I just feel like I need to say this. 00:10:56 Speaker 3: I missed my church family on Sundays. I like being there. 00:10:59 Speaker 2: It's it's that's what we do this time of year. We travel a lot, so I encourage you to go church on Sundays. But we were out hunting. And if you would like to go hunting a couple of Sundays this fall, I think you should be fine as long as you are reading enough scripture to overcome that. 00:11:13 Speaker 3: And I'm just kidding you can't earn it. Boys. But anyways, are you insinuating no girls listening to this podcast. 00:11:21 Speaker 2: I'm just insinuating that the boys should convey that message via leadership to their women, the good Christian leadership. Anyways, Saturday, highly likely that there was human pressure in there, and that's why we saw zero dear. 00:11:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you have a pressure the way you hunt a pressure property is different than the way you hunt a low pressure property because the low pressure property has pot patterns. You lock on to them, you try to figure them out. This is why if you hear big big dogs in the industry, right, the guys that kill big deer, they always are like, oh, I love hunting pre rut because they usually hunt a low pressure and property that's private and they can pat it here. 00:12:00 Speaker 2: I mean our friend Jared Mills, Yeah, absolutely, great guy. 00:12:05 Speaker 3: From what I know. 00:12:06 Speaker 2: We're not like close friends, you know, but if we were in the same time, we'd hang out. 00:12:10 Speaker 3: Uh So Jared Mills. 00:12:14 Speaker 2: Hunts giants kills him in daylight in mornings in late October or mid October even it's because he's hunting places he's the only human that goes. 00:12:23 Speaker 3: In, and he's hunting smart and he's figuring out the patterns. Right. 00:12:26 Speaker 1: So that's that's whay how you can do that sometimes. But when you don't have that situation, it's not that well, just hands in the air, I'm not gonna kill one. It's how those deer we act to pressure. Okay, Well, here's the pressure. It goes in from this parking lot, so it drives deer to this side of the property, and there's a pinch point on this side of the property. And it's Saturday, so there's probably gonna be some dude walking around with his aerowonnoct around this property, and that deer is gonna fight flight through that that point. Right, So you almost hunt like a rut, right, you hunt in a funnel where dere's gonna be pushed out and move three. 00:13:00 Speaker 2: So it's different, but it's and there's the nine thirty or ten thirty, depending on what time of year it is. You know, we just get at the in the standard daylight period where it gets darker earlier and brighter earlier. So like there's on public land, I call it the nine thirty shuffle. Everybody kind of climbs down around that time. Well, the deer're gonna move around because they're getting bumped around by dudes leaving, and so there's like this whole like new movement of deer at a weird time of day. 00:13:26 Speaker 3: Because of that. 00:13:27 Speaker 2: Our friend Nick Knock, Nick Knock is here hunting with us this week, and. 00:13:35 Speaker 1: That's how you say his name. Yeah, it's kind of like those African tribes, you know. 00:13:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, Tic Nick, Nick Knock. 00:13:40 Speaker 2: He's got a lot of names. We You've had a lot of nicknames around here. Nick Gonzalez, he's he's a friend of ours locally in these Texas and you'll probably see him on our channel some pretty soon. But anyways, Nick's doing some hunting with us, and I've noticed because Nick is local to us and it's done a lot of public land hunting. He hunts like he's thinking about pressure deer all the time, and he puts emphasis on a few things, and maybe we could have him. 00:14:06 Speaker 3: He also runs into on a big buck. 00:14:08 Speaker 2: He does, and that's what I'm getting at. He we might should have him talk a little bit about this stuff soon. But he like puts a high value on mid day scouting and looking for fresh sign. And I can see that being a high pressure situation. Fresh sign tells you that deer have been there very recently. Yeah, and so you feel good about sitting up and honestly, high pressure deer might be a little bit used to hunters being somewhere mid day or you know, getting messed around a little bit, what you know, and so it might be less. 00:14:41 Speaker 1: Impactful and this time of year, that mid day scouting it could be as even on a low pressure property could be very valuable because it's changing every day right now, right like, things are happening different. 00:14:54 Speaker 3: There's more does coming in every day. There's bucks that are fired up right now and they're. 00:14:58 Speaker 2: Liable to just whoop the tar out of a buk and you're like, oh, man, lord, some dude that works for a while after that could have happened. 00:15:06 Speaker 3: Inside joke there. Sorry, y'all, you had a few of those on the Olive podcast. 00:15:11 Speaker 2: But I guess what I'm saying is that looking at what a high pressure hunter does, the fresh sign thing means a whole lot more maybe than patterns or you know, trail camera photos or whatever, because you can't control what's going on fifty yards from your trail camera. There might be a guy over there, you know, smoking cigarettes from his deerstand or something, you know what I mean. So like things are constantly changing. So the it's kind of that Mark Jurie mri I thing. 00:15:41 Speaker 1: What I was thinking earlier, where like you're just trying to find like the most recent thing that you know has happened here and go with that and Mark's using that in the sense that I'm talking about it a lot of times, right like where it's really a season change you or they did that thing called thirteen or something like that was it where they had like thirteen different times in the season. 00:16:01 Speaker 2: That thinks that's pretty interesting. Yeah, I don't know how much truth there is to it. I like what they do, so I think it's kind of neat. I just in general like the concept of trying to really figure out what deer doing and I. 00:16:14 Speaker 3: Feel like that's what that is for sure. They're working on that. 00:16:17 Speaker 1: And I think that that that goes right in hand in hand with the MRI that he's trying to harvest. I guess you'd say the one that you know, we might be trying to harvest would be one of like or Nick would be trying to find. It's like, Okay, somebody walked the steer, you know, walked into the steer in the middle of the day and when he was betted, and now he's probably not gonna bed there for the next three weeks, you know what I. 00:16:39 Speaker 2: Mean, Which is interesting because Greg is also hunting, y'all know. Greg. Let me just say, Tyler and I aren't hunting right now. If that tells you, y'all might be in for some interesting stuff pretty soon. Greg's hunting right now. And Greg hunts extremely low pressure deer in Texas on his family property. But his property, for the in the grand scheme of property sizes, is fairly small. It's like one hundred fifty acres or something like that, you know, which is a lot of ground. But at the same time, those deer can leave his property easily. So he has a very conservative nature. And that's actually kind of the low pressure deer thing you can do if you if you have time and you play your cards right, there's a real good chance you're gonna kill a deer because you're not doing something to interfere with the pattern that you know already exists. 00:17:28 Speaker 3: Yep. 00:17:29 Speaker 1: And you know, uh, Greg's Greg's kind of mentality and his just personality. It plays well into like so Greg is just like a key example of listening to other people, learning from experiences like following us around camera or whatever. He learns from the things we do. He really pays attention to what's going on and we talk about stuff. We also respect what he has to say about deer. He's a good dear on hundred hundred deer he is, and then he takes all that and then makes his own method right, and his method he really he's he's tough as nails. So to walk in three miles to kill a deer is no big deal for him. So like if if he thinks he can walk three miles and find deer that are low pressured, he's going to do that over trying to figure out a pressure deer. Next up picking you know what I mean? 00:18:17 Speaker 2: Back to YouTube. Greg has a hunt on YouTube where he did exactly that. It's like probably the fourth video down on our channel, or whether he killed a big public land ten point in Texas. 00:18:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, big, just stealing my dreams, you know what I mean. But yeah, that's how he is, man, is he? 00:18:35 Speaker 3: He? You know? 00:18:36 Speaker 1: It's that's the thing is like, if you don't want to walk, then you may have to just figure him out. And some guys, I frankly love the challenge of like trying to figure out deer that are pressured. I also like hunting low pressure deer, like maybe we get yesterday, you know, the day four or the day four. But and I'll do that every once in a while. Right, But throughout the season, if you're trying to walk that distance over and over again, it can get kind of a beat down. So I kind of like like I did in Iowa nineteen shooting a deer eighty yards from the road. I mean, it's kind of cool to figure stuff like that out because the mental side of things is a lot of work too. I mean, like, how many times during deer season do you sit on on X before you go to sleep on your phone? 00:19:23 Speaker 3: Every day? Right? Yeah? 00:19:24 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's just trying. That's trying right on Hicks weather app, truck rap, Yeah, you know, trying to figure them out. And that's I think the mental thing is one one that a lot of people don't quite put as much stock into. They would rather go into the woods and do the woodsmanship thing, and that's fun. I love doing it, and people, you know, old timers will tell you how that's the only way to do it and all that. But like it's cool to take a map, an aerial map, and figure out a deer after working really hard on that map to really see when something sticks out to you all of a sudden, and then you go in there and kill a deer. There's like hardly a better feeling. Dude, you know, you know there's there is a thing to that though. 00:20:00 Speaker 2: I think that you're you're kind of alluding to to those I like, I think you and I talked about it to Greg and I talked about it recently. When we go on these deer hunting trips outside of a weather event, you're hunting. Every hunt, there's no like, oh it's a bad win. I'm just gonna sit it out. And it makes you get creative and it makes you learn new things, Whereas like you're talking about, if you're sitting there and you're making all these decisions, working on your wisdomship, and you're like, well, if it's on the east southeast at eighteen miles an hour, I can't go in there because you know he's gonna hear me walking at forty six yards versus you know, you get what I'm saying, Like, there's this creativity it comes from making something work no matter what. That I think is super valuable, especially if you're trying to hunt, you know, like the pressure stay. 00:20:46 Speaker 1: I agree, man, you anytime. Because I hunted the ranch buck and I think I think I found him on the twelfth was when I discovered him in November, and I shot him on the thirtieth. And out of those eighteen days, I might have missed like one maybe two days of hunting, and probably one of those is on a Sunday or something, you know what I mean. But like, we probably had southeast winds almost every day. That's not the best for that the worst wind actually, so like, and when we had the Indian summer thing going on that year, I'm like, how do how do I hunt him? I got to find a way. It's a good song. sEH, which one is it? 00:21:24 Speaker 3: Brook? I mean not Garth Brooks, Brooks A done. 00:21:27 Speaker 1: Oh it's pretty stuff. I mean hardly anybody except for Casey doesn't. Coupcake doesn't. He doesn't know any of that stuff, you know, But no, I agree with you one hundred percent, man like you gotta and and and I talked about this in a video I did towards the end of the summer again, you know, if you want to watch it, it's on YouTube. There's a video I did desktop videos probably you know, less eight eight videos down or something maybe where I talk about how creativity, like increased creativity can be had. You can you can. It's like working out and building your muscles. You know, if you want to, if you want your biceps look good because you're a single young man, then you can either take some you know, HG H and cheap be stuff to lift. 00:22:17 Speaker 2: So still have to theoids on. They haven taken them, been around them. Don't think they're that bad of a thing. If you don't do the work, you're not gonna be. 00:22:26 Speaker 3: Still not going to do right. 00:22:27 Speaker 1: It just it just increases the speed at which that grows. So you know you're gonna have to work one way or the other. So it's the same thing with creativity, being around creative people coming up with creative ideas, challenging each other to think. Fasten on your feet, that stuff happens out. Oh that's exactly right. Don't get on that phone at night and look through Instagram for an hour and a half before you go to sleep. Instead, be on X for an hour and the weather app and the multi app. 00:22:54 Speaker 2: Do do something silly, Do something like put yourself in a state you'd never go to and be like, where would I for sure, for sure. 00:23:01 Speaker 1: Dude, that stuff that pays off. Yeah, I mean for sure, that stuff. 00:23:05 Speaker 2: Pays Okay, so back to the point of the podcast, though, Say you're scouting in Vermont. Say she'll never go to hunt deer. Likely, I don't know. You have a goal hunting of killing deer in every stage. 00:23:18 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do, but Bernie won't let me. 00:23:21 Speaker 1: I would rather I'd rather kill big deer than kill a deer and everything. And I made a good joke the other day Bernie Sanders. 00:23:32 Speaker 3: So if you're doing this creative exercise. 00:23:38 Speaker 2: And you're looking at a map like that, tell me the difference in the pressure and the unpressured deer when you're looking at doing a situation like that, like you if you look at a w MA, don't think about maybe I ver Months a bad example. Let's do Midwest that way. It's kind of a little bit more like in our wheelhouse. You're in Midwest state that has a lot of pressure, so you know that he has a lot of pressure. Know it has a lot of pressure. And you're looking at a map. What are you trying to where are you trying to put your imaginary saddle? 00:24:14 Speaker 1: Can I can I give a pretty detailed answer about a state in particular. 00:24:19 Speaker 3: Well, let's say Missouri, because there's a lot exactly what I was. 00:24:22 Speaker 1: There's a lot of pressure is the one I was gonna do. Okay, I mean I can get pretty detailed with this. People might hate me. Well, I wouldn't give away the place that you know in the place, but I'm just saying, like an area I would stay away. 00:24:34 Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of hunters that that are probably hunting Missouri and they'd like to know how Tyler jonesould kill big dealer. 00:24:39 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if if I was going to go to Missouri from now through the end of the month, good ton to be there. There's a good ton to be there. There's a high chance I'm actually not going up there by Iowa, Yeah, because I think that's where everybody goes. And I've had I had a friend who asked me some questions about hunting Missouri and at some point was thinking about going up there a couple of years ago, and I sent him up that direction and he got a shot at a deer and said there was a billion people, and then it might have gone back the next year and didn't have the same success, but saw a billion people. And so I was like, man, I think if I was going up there, I would go in early October, not really, but before November. Right, everybody's gonna be taken off that first week, but there's a whole bunch of the rest of the state. So I would think the way that I would look at it is, if I'm going up there, I'm looking at food sources that are in mid to late October, that might be something to think about. Is the corn coming out. If the corn's coming out, then I probably want to be hunting your corn. If the corn's not coming out, I may not want to be hunting their corn, because hunting their standing corn is just about as tough as things get. I think sometimes if it was late late October or early November, I'm probably staying. I'm probably doing to try to find less pressure deer. I'm probably trying to find a big chunk of public and get way back on it. But at the same time, you never know when you see something on the way in it's fifty yards in parking lot, that could change mine. 00:26:10 Speaker 2: You made a point we're talking about to see guys, what we do is we actually talk about stuff like this off podcast and we're like, hey, we should podcast. 00:26:17 Speaker 3: You made a point the. 00:26:18 Speaker 2: Other day, maybe yesterday or today, about you can go five miles back, but if you're in a bad spot. 00:26:25 Speaker 3: You're still in a bad spot for sure. Yeah, sure it was today. What is that? Yeah, while we were seeing no deer? Was that? What was that? Yeah? 00:26:51 Speaker 1: So one thing you can do is and you don't need to do is go find a big chunk of public and just say I'm gonna go way back and there're gonna do there, because that does not something the way it works. If you were to go into southern Ohio and just walk into some big National forest grot ground that might or might not be there three miles, there's there's still a very high chance you don't see a deer because there's I mean, if you're that if you're having to walk that far in, there ain't a whole lot of crops around probably unless you know you go or able to get to the towards the edge. But at the same time, one thing you do, one thing you can get into you know, kind of trouble with is walking way back into some public and actually being really close to where a guy comes in from private and messes things up to right, or you could be just in a bad spot. You have to have the things that deer need so food, water, shelter, and this time of ear does so, I mean those are the things. So how do you how do you find dose? Well, they have to have food they're going. If you want dose around, there's gonna be there have to be some decent food around, right, So you know what does that look like. The farther north you are in November, the less uh natural food there probably is on the landscape. Right, So if you're in mid to southern Missouri right now, uh, there's probably some natural foods out. There's probably a lot of percentmins actually still potentially on the ground. I don't know for sure. I hadn't been to Missouri this time of year really, but there's a bunch of Texas. 00:28:17 Speaker 3: There's acrons. 00:28:18 Speaker 1: You know, there's probably still some green broad leaves and stuff like that for them to browse. So you just got to kind of think about stuff like that. 00:28:24 Speaker 2: So let's let's flip this and say the state to the north has the least amount of pressure public a private Iowa. Because you have to draw it as it's like the probably the least amount of hunting pressure in the country for white tail deer. Also, it's the biggest white tailt deer funny other works. Yeah, how would you go about picking a spot on a map in that. 00:28:45 Speaker 3: State in Iowa and for a least like a low pressure situation. 00:28:49 Speaker 1: To try to find low pressure deer, but just just assuming they're pressure pressure, I'm one hundred percent. I'm not one hundred percent, but I'm I'm almost disregarding county road roads of any any sort really, especially in November, right I the circles, like the radius that you might draw around a homestead or something like that becomes very small, and that gives you a lot of options, which is kind of like a Mexican food restaurant. You're like, there's ninety nine options here, and they all have taco meat. 00:29:28 Speaker 3: I like, go into that. The whole wall is me. That's right. People. 00:29:33 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that don't get that reference. But there's some Mexican food places that literally I've been to one that's had has over one hundred options. 00:29:39 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:29:39 Speaker 2: Man, then there's numbers for those. Yeah, it's like I'll take a one thirty six twelve point that's right, that's right. So you know, but that can that can be the thing. So really, what a lot of this stuff boils down to is eliminating grounds. So how do you eliminate ground when your circles are starting to get smaller? Uh Well, food deserts so uh on, like if beans have come out early or something like that might be kind of a food desert. I may be speaking wrong there, but I think the machines, the combines are really effective these days. So there's you know, some potential there, but like as much as anything, like you're hunting, if you're hunting up there and it's mostly hackberry elms and you're in early November, there's probably not a whole lot of leaves that they're really wanting to eat there. I mean, they're gonna browse and if they come through, but if it's a hackberry flat in elms, like there's probably just if they're passing through that. There's a ratio in like heavy egg country of like how much brows versus agriculture food the deer eating. 00:30:41 Speaker 3: And they're still eating a ton of brows. 00:30:43 Speaker 2: But deer are selective browsers, so they're going to destinate at the ag food sources and they're going to browse all day and all nights. But it's hard to target a specific brows when you're doing that if there's. 00:30:57 Speaker 3: Some good aggasu food sources around. 00:30:58 Speaker 2: So don't disregard the that don't say they're not I'm not telling you, but the audience. 00:31:03 Speaker 3: Don't think that the deer aren't browsing. 00:31:05 Speaker 2: But they You can't be like, oh, there's a patch of sumac, I'm gonna hunt that because that's where they're going to eat. 00:31:13 Speaker 3: That's not works. 00:31:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you might do that late season or something when there's like nothing right, but like the way that here's here's a common misconception. I think people tell you all the time hunt a funnel, and they also call them pinch points. And during the rut, well, I mean I can sit I can you know, a creek goes under a bridge on I thirty and I can sit right there and not see a deer for days on end right, So it's not really just sitting in a pinch point. Like the pinch point, what matters is what's on the outside of motivation to go to each Yeah, and so to me, it still revolves around food because in the early season it's bed to food, so you shoot a buck between that and then the rut season, the dose are going to that to be gravity hating towards food. So if you want to kill a buck, I am way more of a dough betting hunter than I am a buck betting hunter. 00:32:09 Speaker 3: I'm with you for sure. 00:32:10 Speaker 2: I think there's certain situations where I can I don't ever find buck betting. I assume buck betting, and yeah, hunt according to that a little bit, but not often. But I think you think about bed to food all the time. And I'm not saying you're wrong in that. Yeah, I mean, how are you thinking about it differently? I think during the rut, I'm thinking more about do betting to dough betting. 00:32:35 Speaker 3: Yeah. Bucks. 00:32:37 Speaker 2: Now, some places we hunt, you throw all this out the window just because it's wide open country and you just find a deer honting. 00:32:46 Speaker 3: You take them. 00:32:47 Speaker 1: You just do the Indian thing and just chase, run them down, shoot them if that will get an arrow there. 00:32:55 Speaker 3: Sometimes you just have to tell yourself your wheel is more than the deer. S like that for sure, flinging it out there, man, dude, look at. 00:33:03 Speaker 1: Them all the paintings where they're just shooting buffalo in the rear end and all kinds of stuff. Man. 00:33:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever it takes to get them down. Yeah, right, man, that's right. So I'm not sure if people are gonna love me. 00:33:15 Speaker 2: Saying that, but yeah, they got to understand the facetiousness that we have. But what is he even saying? Oh, this time of year, and I've noticed it on this hunt that I think for daytime movement on bucks, I'm not as worried about where the deer are eating. I like knowing it, don't get me wrong, but I like knowing that there's a big concentration of doze over there, and then eleven hundred yards over here is another big concentration of doze. Where am I at in between there? And in fact, we had some pretty good success in a place kind of like that last night. 00:33:56 Speaker 3: We'll talk more about that at a later date. 00:33:58 Speaker 2: But you can see these big habitat pockets that you know, there's quite a bit of dearien and there'll be a transition area kind of like a pinch point in between there, and sometimes it is just a pinch, right, We're looking at this morning one of these places where there's like this willow thicket and then they'll be like a creek and on the other side of that is a bunch of like kind of thicker hardwoods, and it's like, Okay, those are going to be two pockets that a buck is going to try to figure out on a south wind, where where do you need to set up? That is the best pinch between us two places. I like thinking about that for the rut, which is kind of what we're in right now. I mean especially I feel like this is we're recording this on the third in November. Yeah, right, today's the third. I feel like for a lot of the country, the next four days there's gonna be bucks on their feet looking for those doughs. And in fact, I'm seeing it more this year than I ever really had. I think I'm trying to pay more attention to it and trying to treat the rut differently like day to day as opposed to just being like, oh, first two weeks in November, it's rock and rolling, let's go. You know, well that deerre doing a lot different things on the first than they are in the sixth, and so I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's a good time to find deer on their feet in daylight. But I still think kind of back to where you like to think about stuff. You need to be in the cover for that stuff. I don't think that this time of year you're not going to see Chris B one eighty seven walking around and just in the open middays off Zoby. 00:35:36 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know there's. 00:35:38 Speaker 2: Gonna be bucks up in the cover trying to root them a dough out, find some stuff. 00:35:42 Speaker 3: But they're they're not out. 00:35:44 Speaker 2: They have no reason to go into weird spots because they know that they're going to find a dough in the good stuff, if that makes sense. 00:35:52 Speaker 1: What what's an what's a what's another thing that you can you can kind of a line to find the less pressure deer? Any any other things that we've missed or we haven't talked about. Drawing a tag is good. I think we kind of talked about that a little bit works in the Elk woods too, Yeah, it does for sure. 00:36:15 Speaker 3: Man. I'm trying to I'm trying to think and not give away. 00:36:19 Speaker 2: I feel I don't want to give away my best secret either, So okay, I'll let me throw. 00:36:23 Speaker 3: Something out there. 00:36:24 Speaker 2: I'm kidding. Well, I'm not kidding actually, but I think that here's what I think. I think if you're a committed element listener, you'll pick up on our better secrets, but we give them away little bits. 00:36:37 Speaker 3: At a time. I think that another way to find this. I have a great one. Get away from the big trees. Mm hmm. 00:36:45 Speaker 2: That's that is good. That's a big one. Maybe I shouldn't have given that one away. 00:36:51 Speaker 3: I don't know. But being willing to hunt from the ground. 00:36:54 Speaker 1: Or just getting a witch small trees, yeah yeah, I mean, dude, oh you know, it gets us go, both of us. 00:37:00 Speaker 2: You get in a willow tree eight foot up and it's about as big around as your shin. 00:37:04 Speaker 3: I will make a scrape in that tree. 00:37:06 Speaker 2: It makes me pumped. I killed a big deer and buck truck out of a tree like that. I mean yeah, literally, I don't think I used a stick to get to my platform. It was like four foot off the ground or something like that, you know, and I was able to step up in a little bit of the wy. 00:37:19 Speaker 3: The tree we were hunting. You know. 00:37:21 Speaker 1: We'll talk about this little bit later. But we hunted Nebraska recently, and I had plenty of sets that were below seven foot maybe eight. Man, I had most of my sets were below that. Here's something that people don't talk about which is kind of aweso. 00:37:36 Speaker 3: So that's good. 00:37:37 Speaker 1: A lot of people like to kind of they can't believe that I hunt so low all the time. Well, when you're going into a place that you've never been to the tree and you just got to show up. And here's another thing you can't If you can't trim the tree, things get real interesting. 00:37:51 Speaker 3: Right, The higher up you are, the less shot. Yet that's exactly right. We've talked about it before on this podcast. 00:37:57 Speaker 1: But sometimes you got to sit at six foot platform so that you can shoot under limbs, because if you're getting higher than that, you got you have a fifteen yard shot and a seven yards shot on the other side. 00:38:08 Speaker 3: Yep. 00:38:08 Speaker 2: Okay, so we need to put a rap on this. Yeah, but you said, how, what's another tip? I'd say, get away from the big trees. And like the broader version of that is get away from the people. And people will like to hang in big trees. So I would say look for the stuff that just kind of this thick, kind of hard to hunt and figure out, and hop off in there and and make your best inference in hunt it, and then when you're there you'll see something that will help you understand it a little bit better. 00:38:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, uh, I think just a little parting advice here, but keep keep the keep the optimism. 00:38:46 Speaker 3: It's early, it's right. 00:38:47 Speaker 1: Don't let you don't let November seventh pass by and all of a sudden you're freaking out, because I promise you. 00:38:52 Speaker 2: I will have a little bit of that and so for sure, but we all have to tell that's right. 00:38:57 Speaker 1: Okay, you got Yeah, that's why good partners is critical. When did you rattle? What date do you think you rattled that deer in on the lace last year? 00:39:10 Speaker 3: Like the tenth of December. 00:39:14 Speaker 1: Thirty four days or wait after some people would say the run is over. 00:39:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was. He came in as fired up as any buck you'll ever see. Yeah, he was ready to fight. He was running, yeah, full speed, and he wasn't. He never checked up like, hey, I better, I better watch myself. He just checked up, like where's that deer at? I'm going to see what's going there? For sure, for sure it was time to rock a Yeah. 00:39:41 Speaker 1: I just think just making sure you're optimistic because this time can be kind of tough, right, Like if a deer finds a hot dough right now, then you're not going to see him for a couple days probably, you know, And that's okay. Just stay in the woods, stay after it, keep going because the less pressure that are, you know, the less pressure a deer you can find, and the more apt they are to just be out there doing wild things. 00:40:03 Speaker 2: Right now, with that that buck might find that dough Well, don't put super high expectations or like lofty goals for like what size. 00:40:12 Speaker 3: Of the deer you want to shoot? What kind of do you want to shoot? 00:40:14 Speaker 2: You find a deer that makes you excited and shooting big eights are off, that's right, man, Big. 00:40:18 Speaker 3: Eights are sick. You know. 00:40:19 Speaker 2: The Boot and Crockett number of one seventy is very difficult to get. That's why they put that number there. Be happy with one smaller than that. I am for sure. 00:40:29 Speaker 3: I may tell you may them. Actually I'm fine with them. The smaller good advice. 00:40:33 Speaker 1: Hey, keep the optimism, that's right, and then go watch your moose buck video and that'll hype you up. And then also remember this is your element, live in it.