00:00:04 Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show, everybody. This week, we've got more news on America's most divisive issue, which is LiveScope. We've got only Finn's Katie in the studio. We've got a market report on panfish filets, as the Cajuns call them. We're going to cover Ted Cormorant Killer Cruz, Senator out of Texas. We're going to talk about how Phil loves video games. U.S. Senate candidate and Alaska native Mary Peltola joins us to talk fisheries. And more. But first, we're going to get into that LiveScope deal with the one and only Seth Morris. 00:00:40 Speaker 2: Yep. Hold on, Seth. I've got a new sound, and it's very important. Oh, Phil. This is the headliner, right? Take it away, Phil. 00:00:56 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell what he's saying. 00:00:58 Speaker 2: Meteater News Headliner. It's early, but you've got to stay. That's great. Love it. 00:01:03 Speaker 1: That's not good. Damn it. You think that's good? 00:01:09 Speaker 2: I think it's pretty good, Steve. It's early in the show, but you, the listener, you've got to stay. 00:01:13 Speaker 1: You've got to be. 00:01:14 Speaker 2: Here for the whole show. 00:01:16 Speaker 3: Oh. 00:01:17 Speaker 2: The audience is going to love it. All right. We're joined by Ryan Gary, who is the title black bass manager for the Maryland Department of Natural Resources. Welcome to the show, Ryan. 00:01:29 Speaker 1: I think that's good. Can you cut over to me real quick? Yeah. Just because of Randall. That's Carbon County, Montana, ladies and gentlemen. Come on. 00:01:40 Speaker 2: Anyway, back up. 00:01:40 Speaker 1: This guy's a very important figure in mine and my children's lives here. Thank you. No, not you, Randall. Cut back, Phil, because then Randall can quit campaigning. 00:01:50 Speaker 2: Thank you, Randall. 00:01:51 Speaker 1: Randall doesn't know who this guy is, but let's vote for him. Carbon County. 00:01:54 Speaker 2: Go ahead. 00:01:55 Speaker 1: That's good, Phil. Sorry. 00:01:56 Speaker 3: Sorry. 00:01:57 Speaker 1: I just had to get, I didn't want Randall to be there for hours. 00:01:59 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:02:00 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:02:01 Speaker 2: Like I said, Ryan Gary is here joining us today. He's titled black bass manager for the Maryland department, natural resources. And he ran, which I would consider the most legit live scope study that I've ever seen. So Ryan, can you please give us a rundown on this study? 00:02:21 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, thanks for having me and thanks for that compliment. So I think I heard a little bit on this show, you know, a year or so ago, but Major League Fishing, which if anybody's not familiar with, is one of the largest bass fishing organizations in the country, made a big change to one of their big tours, the Bass Pro Tour. And that was basically dividing up um, the period, the tournament periods into being able to use live scope and not use live scope. So there's three periods throughout the day. Um, and they restricted use of live scope to, uh, to one of those period out of the three. Uh, and so when I heard this news at the beginning of 2025, you know, as a scientist, as a biologist, um, you know, the first thing I thought was this is a perfect lineup, uh, for a scientific study of, you know, How does live scope or forward-facing sonar affect catch rates? 00:03:19 Speaker 4: Because we can compare. 00:03:20 Speaker 3: These periods where they're using it to the periods where they're not using it. And even more so, working with Major League Fishing has been awesome because they're really focused when using some of this data and how people like myself, biologists, scientists, can use this to further research. 00:03:40 Speaker 4: And further his management. 00:03:41 Speaker 3: So the Bass Pro Tour is a catch-weight release format, which differs from typical bass tournaments where you fish all day for your biggest five and you weigh those at the end of the day and whoever has the biggest five wins. The catch-weight release format basically is cumulative weight throughout the day. So these anglers catch a fish, they weigh it, they release it, and they keep fishing. And the total cumulative weight of all the fish they've caught throughout the day counts to their bag. And really important with that is because it's a professional tournament, the bottom line, each one of these anglers has. 00:04:17 Speaker 4: An on-boat officiant. 00:04:19 Speaker 3: So that on-boat officiant weighs that fish, leases it, and then of course, really important data points that are associated with it, not just fish weight, but also GPS locations of where it was caught, the lure that it was caught on, the depth of water that it was caught in, habitat. 00:04:35 Speaker 4: It was caught on. 00:04:36 Speaker 3: Riprap, it was caught on open water, it was caught on a brush pile. And so we were able to use this really in-depth data set to. 00:04:45 Speaker 4: Analyze the 2025 Bass Pro Tour. 00:04:47 Speaker 3: Which was eight different events spanning from Lake Conroe down in Texas all the way up to the Potomac River, which borders Maryland, Virginia, one of. 00:04:56 Speaker 4: The trees that I manage, and then all the way up to Saginaw Bay. 00:04:59 Speaker 3: So eight really diverse fisheries that And that accounted to 73 individual anglers that fished in these events that we could analyze their data. And over 12,000 fish caught during that time span that we can analyze. And so it's really comprehensive, the data set. It allows us to compare these fisheries. It allows us to compare the anglers' performance when they're using the technology versus when they're not using the technology, compare them to themselves, and then also you know, compare them throughout these systems. And overall, what we really found was that across these eight systems, generally forward-facing sonar or live scope increased your catch rate. So how many fish you caught per hour, but that varied across those different systems. 00:05:49 Speaker 4: So we had two systems that really stood out. 00:05:51 Speaker 3: That really forward-facing sonar really increased the catch rates. One of those increased the catch rate by 1.6 fish per hour. So if you're fishing across in an eight-hour day, you know, that's an increase of, you know, almost 12 fish throughout the day, which is pretty substantial. But only two of those lakes did not have any significant difference in the catch rate. So forward-facing sonar did not make a difference. But what's really important there is, is that, you know, at best, this technology through our analysis was a wash. So never was not using forward-facing sonar an advantage to using forward-facing sonar. The other thing we looked at was the average size of fish caught. What kind of surprised me doing that was that, you know, we didn't really see a large difference in the size of fish caught when using forward-facing sonar or. 00:06:43 Speaker 4: When not using forward-facing sonar. 00:06:45 Speaker 3: So across those eight systems, generally there was no difference in the size of fish you caught when you were using the technology versus not using the technology. And the last thing we did was we looked at those habitat factors that I talked about. So the depth of water that fish were caught in, you know, was it caught on a brush pile or riprap or open water? And what we found was that anglers were almost three times more likely to catch a fish using forward-facing sonar in deep water, so water that was deeper than 10 feet, and more open water. So what I kind of equate that to is, you know, having a set of binoculars when you're out hunting. So if you're hunting grouse, it's probably not going to be helpful in deep, thick woods to have binoculars. But if you're out in an open desert environment hunting elk, having binoculars or a spotting scope is going to be a big advantage. And that's kind of the results we found from that habitat analysis using LiveScope. So that's just kind of a quick, dirty dive into the analysis that we did on this tournament series. 00:07:51 Speaker 2: So what was the lake you saw the significant difference? difference in like higher catch rates? 00:07:58 Speaker 3: Uh, so we saw significant difference in increasing catch rates on six different lakes, but the one where we saw the largest difference was Lake Conroe down in Texas. 00:08:07 Speaker 4: Um, and that was. 00:08:08 Speaker 3: That 1.6 fish per hour increase when you were using the technology. 00:08:12 Speaker 2: Now, could that be from time of year? Um, just where the, the fish are setting up. Um, you know, I don't, I don't know Conroe. I've never fished it But like if it was a spring tournament, maybe they're, they're, they're just, it's like better fishing in the spring compared to a different time of the year. 00:08:33 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:08:34 Speaker 3: So we, we weren't able to compare, you know, these tournaments happen throughout the year from from February all the way to August. So we weren't really able to substantially say whether seasonality played a difference, but one of the things we kind of speculated on is that Lake Conroe has a lot of really good shallow habitat in the summer and good, aquatic vegetation. But the Lake Conroe tournament happened down in February. And typically that's a time of year down in Texas where we would see them in more deeper water, more open water. And Lake Conroe also has a lot of submerged timber. So while it is more open, there is some structure out there, but it's not incredibly complex. So that's kind of one of the things we speculated on that During that time of year, you know, when those fish typically tend to be a little bit deeper, you know, this is probably one of the reasons that may have contributed to that big increase in catch rate using the technology down at Lake Conroe. 00:09:32 Speaker 2: Gotcha. 00:09:32 Speaker 1: Let me kind of hit him with a clarifying question. Yeah. Were you saying that live scope is never a deficit? 00:09:42 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:09:43 Speaker 3: So in our analysis, you know, we looked at eight different lakes and we never saw that or that live scope negatively impacted catch rates at its worst. When you were using live scope, it was a wash. 00:09:58 Speaker 4: It was equal to using water. not having live scope. 00:10:05 Speaker 5: Interesting. 00:10:06 Speaker 1: A little bit makes sense. A guy pulling into a brush pile, he's going to fish it. He knows where to catch it. You know how to work it. Out in that big open water, Instead of being like, I'm going to cast a whole damn lake is what you'd have to do. Or it's like, no, I'm just going to cruise and find a fish. Yeah. 00:10:24 Speaker 2: Well, I think, I think once, when this technology came out, like it significantly changed the offshore fishing in, in these lakes that, you know, you couldn't like, like you said, you just, if you're offshore, you don't really know what you're casting to unless you like see, you can, obviously if you can read a map, like these days there's maps so you can tell if like you're on a hump or something. 00:10:47 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 00:10:49 Speaker 2: Offshore, it's tough to fish without it. 00:10:54 Speaker 1: Just needle and haystack. 00:10:55 Speaker 2: Needle and haystack. What you were saying, Ryan, fish that are set up in deeper water, it seems to be more effective, which makes total sense. Especially in lakes like you were saying, they were on Lake Murray, right? I think Lake Murray is a lake where there's a lot of suspended fish that aren't even around structure. They're just out there, which technology really helps for that. Ryan, when you looked at this study and were following these anglers, was there a angler that really stuck out as the premier live scoper? 00:11:38 Speaker 4: We didn't get really that far into the weeds on it. I mean, I had all these... I could obviously tell. 00:11:45 Speaker 3: what I had anglers names associated with catch rates and associated with fish caught. But, you know, we had it's such an immense, immense data set, you know, 12,000 fish, eight different events, you know, all throughout the day. 00:11:58 Speaker 4: And so I didn't narrow it down. 00:12:01 Speaker 3: I'm sure, you know, I could have looked into that and seen, you know, what anglers were better at using it, which were not as good as using it. But in general, I was just looking for these larger scale trends on you know, how is it affecting catch rates or fish size in some of these tournaments? 00:12:17 Speaker 2: Gotcha. I know it varies a lot from lake to lake, but in your opinion, is, is live scope something that we're going to be, do you think in 10 years, kind of like crystal ball, is it something that's going to be banned in areas and free to use in other areas? Is it going to be like a, state-to-state thing or a lake-to-lake thing? What's your thoughts on that? 00:12:44 Speaker 3: I think it really depends on the lake and the species. You know, one of the main reasons we did this study because we were hearing from our anglers that. 00:12:57 Speaker 4: Were concerned about, you know, is this having an effect on fisheries? 00:13:01 Speaker 3: And so I really see this as You know, if you have a shallow system that's really complex habitat, brush piles, submerged aquatic vegetation, you know, I'm not as concerned about it. But if I have a deeper lake, you know, where, you know, there might be a subsect of the population that's now available to be targeted because of this technology, I might be more concerned about it. You know, we looked at just black bass, you know, which is largely a catch and release fishery. So the only thing that we're really concerned about is, you know, angling mortality, you know, is that increasing as a result of increased catch rates and targeting these different subsects that weren't previously available. 00:13:43 Speaker 4: But I think if you look at other species, you know, like paddlefish, there's talk about it being banned. 00:13:50 Speaker 3: And I think it is banned in North Dakota or Montana using LiveScope because you can, clearly see these large animals, you know, 100 plus pounds. 00:14:02 Speaker 4: And it's, you know, it's not very ethical, at least in a lot of people's opinion. 00:14:07 Speaker 3: So I think it really depends on the species and the fishery. You know, what I really recommended to a lot of, you know, biologists or fisheries managers in this research is that, you know, if you have one of these fisheries that's more conducive to increased catch rates with, This technology, you know, a deep in more open water system, you know, maybe if you start to see concerning trends in your fisheries population, you know, investigate, you know, what is the prevalence of forward facing sonar and, you know, how effective are they being in that fishery? I don't necessarily see it banned except in, you know, some of those certain cases like paddlefish. 00:14:49 Speaker 4: But I do really see. 00:14:51 Speaker 3: Fisheries managers and state agencies reacting to the efficiency of the technology. And we've seen that in some situations where there have been lakes throughout the country that have reduced their bag limits on certain species as a result of the increased prevalence of forward-facing sonar. 00:15:08 Speaker 1: Ryan, you don't need to comment on this, but you know, one of the things I think you're going to, there's going to be a reckoning sooner than later is on gator hunting. Me and Seth were just down gator hunting, live scope gator hunting. Oh my gosh. 00:15:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's effective. 00:15:27 Speaker 4: I don't think I'll have to reckon with that. We don't, we don't have any gators up there. 00:15:31 Speaker 1: Live scope gator hunting is a whole deal, man. 00:15:34 Speaker 3: But I can, there's, there's no bounds at which the, uh, the forward facing sonar hasn't reached. 00:15:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:15:40 Speaker 1: Be like, Oh, that one's nine feet, four inches right there. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Thinking he's all hiding at the bottom. Yeah. 00:15:51 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:15:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, man. 00:15:54 Speaker 2: Well, cool. Ryan, man, that that's, like I said, I think this is the, the most in-depth, uh, study we've seen on it. And, um, you got a lot of good info there and I don't know. I'm curious to see where the future with the future holds for forward facing sonar, but yeah. 00:16:13 Speaker 1: Only fins Katie. Have you ever fished? Have you ever seen this? Oh yeah. 00:16:16 Speaker 7: I've seen it online for sure. I've seen videos. 00:16:18 Speaker 1: You haven't fished it. No, no, no, no, no. 00:16:22 Speaker 7: Um, I can only comment so much being so removed from a lot of sports fishing, but to me, I mean, I think it makes sense in a lot of instances. I was actually talking to Corey about it yesterday where I was like, dude, if you're a guide and you're having people pay to like catch and kind of your professions on the line, Totally makes sense there. Style of fishing I'm doing, I'm like, I think there's a difference between getting better at fishing and getting better at finding the fish. I feel like there's so much personal reward when you can do that on your own in a way. But dude, I mean, totally makes sense. There's a time and place for this technology. It's super interesting and fascinating to me. 00:17:08 Speaker 2: What's cool these days is like these pro-level... tours like the elite series or the best pro tour, they're splitting it. So like, like what Ryan was saying, they have three periods during the day. One of the periods they're allowed to use it to the periods or not. And like the elite series, you can, they do a coin flip. So you can like 50% of the, the places where they fish, you can use it. Um, 50% you can't. So it's, it seems like these organizations are, are noticing that it's like, it's a, it's a thing. And so they're kind of going back to the old days of not using it. But they're still using it. So they're just splitting it up. That's the biggest question. And I like that. 00:17:53 Speaker 1: Oh, sorry, go ahead. 00:17:54 Speaker 7: No, sorry. That's the biggest question I've had is just, like, how people feel about it being used in tournaments. Because I feel like that just, like, drastically has changed what it means to be involved in sports fishing. Yeah, man. 00:18:06 Speaker 2: It's... That's one of those things where we could sit here for hours and talk about it. 00:18:10 Speaker 1: In fact, we have. 00:18:14 Speaker 2: I mean, there's thousands and thousands of podcast hours you could listen to on different opinions. Some people love it. Some people hate it. That's kind of all I can give you. It's pretty split, in my opinion. What you say, so Ryan, in your experience. 00:18:32 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely pretty split. 00:18:33 Speaker 3: There's a lot of guys that, you know, feel like it takes some of the skill out of it, and there's a lot of guys who feel like, you know, this is the new wave and it's coming, so hop. 00:18:41 Speaker 4: On the train. 00:18:42 Speaker 2: Yep. Yep. I hear that a lot. Hop on the train or get run over. 00:18:46 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Hate the game, not the player. 00:18:49 Speaker 2: Yep. 00:18:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, whatever. Thanks, man. 00:18:53 Speaker 2: Thanks, Ryan. 00:18:54 Speaker 4: I appreciate you guys having me on. 00:18:56 Speaker 2: Thank you. 00:18:57 Speaker 1: All right, take it easy. All right, Phil, hit it. 00:19:02 Speaker 8: Yeah. 00:19:05 Speaker 1: Dang. 00:19:08 Speaker 2: Steve, why don't you make me like a bullet point list of things that you would like to see or hear here in a drop? Oh, you want to know? 00:19:14 Speaker 1: You want to know? 00:19:14 Speaker 2: Yeah. Specific sounds. 00:19:16 Speaker 1: The viewer can't tell. The viewer can't tell this is a problem. 00:19:18 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:19:19 Speaker 1: The cardboard. Oh my God. 00:19:22 Speaker 2: Well, now they know. 00:19:24 Speaker 1: We repaint this whole damn room. Nate restains this table. Beautiful. And then you come in and put all this cardboard around. 00:19:34 Speaker 2: Audience, write in if you can see any of the cardboard. 00:19:37 Speaker 1: No, he hides it from him. He hides it from him. Here's the deal. As I've said before, I don't traffic in emojis whatsoever. But, except with my daughter. I'll put emojis in there because it's just a running joke between us. However, I was like, if there was, I was like, there is an emoji I want, and the only emoji I want doesn't exist, which is a tough titty emoji. That's the only one I would ever use. If there was an emoji, people are like, thumbs up, people. If I had an emoji for communicating with my kids, I would be able to save most of my text messages and send them a tough titty emoji, which made me be like, what would a tough titty emoji look like? It's got stitches. I think it's like a random, stimpy, like it's a hog. It's a hog. Teat. Stitches. A pierced nipple. No. No, I'm thinking like a hog teat with calluses. Like a real Ren and Stimpy kind of thing. 00:20:40 Speaker 2: You can't go into super detail, though, because these emojis are small. 00:20:44 Speaker 1: Well, I know, but here's the deal. I was talking to one of, I was talking to Logan Dove. I was like, man, we should have, you can get, we should design a package of emojis. They call them stickers when you do this. I didn't know that. Design a package of downloadable emojis that would be appropriate for The tough titty will be like an add-on. It'll be like appropriate emojis for people that hunt and fish and stuff. 00:21:09 Speaker 5: Like dead deer. 00:21:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, like a big buck dad emoji. Bucks with like, you know, drop to, I don't know. So he says that's easy to do. But what we need is people to write in with what emojis they feel they're missing. Like their arsenal of emojis is short on. 00:21:29 Speaker 1: Like what is the emoji if you had, like for me, the tough titty emoji, what emoji do you wish you had to facilitate quicker communication with your peers? 00:21:38 Speaker 2: I haven't thought about that. 00:21:41 Speaker 1: So if you have ideas, we could do 10, we could do 20, and we'll create a package of emojis that you could download and put on your phone. And it will include, once you figure out what it needs to look like, it'll include a tough titty emoji. So if someone's complaining to you, you send them that. So right into like, I really don't understand what's going on with this meeting later. You'd be like, don't even need to reply, dude. I mean, you reply, but. 00:22:08 Speaker 9: Never in my life did I imagine that I would be involved in even creating a distance and creating a pack of emojis. 00:22:18 Speaker 1: I might become a user. If I found, if I found a collection of emojis that helped me, I would switch and begin using them. Hmm. Where should they send these, Nate? We need to work up like a dozen. Yeah. A dozen emojis. 00:22:33 Speaker 10: The Meteor Podcast at TheMeteor.com. Subject line emoji dash whatever you want. 00:22:39 Speaker 1: Like emoji idea. 00:22:40 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:22:41 Speaker 1: You'll figure it out. 00:22:41 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:22:42 Speaker 1: Don't put an emoji in there. 00:22:43 Speaker 6: A light bulb? 00:22:46 Speaker 10: Yeah, because if you put an emoji in there, you're communicating. You wouldn't need our emojis. 00:22:51 Speaker 1: Are you demonstrating that you already have, you already facilitated an emoji communication? 00:22:55 Speaker 7: Mm-hmm. 00:22:58 Speaker 1: Okay, Way of the Hunter. 00:23:02 Speaker 2: Steve, that's right. Moving on to more things that I've been doing that you probably have a problem with. First of all, I just want to say, I thought you'd appreciate the Steve Miller band. You didn't like that? 00:23:11 Speaker 1: Man, you know what? 00:23:13 Speaker 2: He didn't even know it. 00:23:14 Speaker 1: I hate the Steve Miller band. 00:23:17 Speaker 2: You know, that doesn't really surprise me, but I just thought that the 70s rock would. 00:23:21 Speaker 1: You know... It would be endearing. I hate, hate, hate. Really? The Steve Miller band. 00:23:28 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:23:28 Speaker 1: Is he alive? That'd be a good one for Dead or Alive. 00:23:30 Speaker 2: I don't think he is. I don't think he is. 00:23:32 Speaker 8: They're just too chill for you. Too laid back. 00:23:35 Speaker 1: I just, it's, no, I've never, I could never stand Steve Miller. The only thing good about, well. Yep. 00:23:41 Speaker 2: 83 years old. Corey Googled Steve Miller Band guy and it pops up Steve Miller. 00:23:51 Speaker 1: You gotta assume his name is Steve Miller. What's his name? Steve Miller Band. You know, the main. 00:23:58 Speaker 2: Guy. 00:23:59 Speaker 1: You know what I want to do? I keep trying to get Spencer to do this. It's a game called Dead or Alive 3-Pack. Because everybody knows Dead or Alive. But a Dead or Alive 3-Pack is you take three dudes named Steve. 00:24:12 Speaker 2: So he's alive. 00:24:14 Speaker 1: So Steve Miller, Steve Buscemi, Steve... Jobs. Jobs. And then you got to go alive, alive, dead. It's a dead or alive three-pack, but he won't do it. 00:24:30 Speaker 8: Doesn't work with our trivia show. 00:24:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Spencer's right. 00:24:33 Speaker 1: On that one. You can do a dead or alive six-pack. 00:24:37 Speaker 8: You can do 20 of them. 00:24:39 Speaker 1: That'd be hard. You're not going to think of 20 dudes named Steve. 00:24:46 Speaker 2: Bob. 00:24:46 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan. Bob Dole. Bob Seger. That'd be a BD3 pack. Anyways, Way of the Hunter. 00:24:54 Speaker 2: Steve, I've been playing a game. It's called Way of the Hunter 2. It came out in September on PC, PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series consoles. It's a hunting game. You kind of have to suspend your disbelief here because you sort of are the overseer of this reserve and you're in charge of kind of restoring it, rebuilding tree stands and managing the wildlife. 00:25:18 Speaker 1: So you- My kid plays this game. 00:25:20 Speaker 2: Really? 00:25:20 Speaker 11: Yeah. 00:25:22 Speaker 2: Randall, you've been playing the game as well. What are your thoughts? Because I invited Randall to play because I do not have the context of a real-life hunter, a lifetime of hunting exploits to compare this to. 00:25:33 Speaker 1: Phil's like, so this is what it's like. Yeah. 00:25:36 Speaker 2: I know all about it now. Ask me anything. 00:25:38 Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, I haven't been playing video games seriously since I was 20, 21 maybe, 22. 00:25:43 Speaker 5: Got laid off from a construction job. 00:25:50 Speaker 9: And bought a bathrobe and an Xbox 360 and just. 00:25:53 Speaker 5: Got after it. 00:25:54 Speaker 9: So when Phil invited me to play this game with him, I was thrilled. I've been coming to the office more so that we can play this game. I've found perhaps what was most rewarding was the ability to make a ton of mistakes in the game that perhaps then I could avoid in this fall. But yeah, it's. 00:26:17 Speaker 5: Been a blast. It's been a real blast. 00:26:20 Speaker 1: Phil, what would you like me to add here? This is footage of you two playing this? Yeah, yeah. 00:26:22 Speaker 8: You guys look great in there. 00:26:24 Speaker 1: You got a dog. 00:26:24 Speaker 9: Yeah, what I told Phil was when I last played video games, it was before the era when people filmed themselves playing video games. 00:26:32 Speaker 1: You can get this dog. You can pet the dog. You can call the dog. 00:26:36 Speaker 5: It has all these different commands. 00:26:38 Speaker 2: The dog's a new feature in this one, the sequel to the first one. It tracks blood. It can look for tracks for you. It's very, very helpful. So you kind of oversee this reserve in a North American... landscape called New Laurentia. 00:26:53 Speaker 1: I jump a lot. 00:26:54 Speaker 2: This is Randall actually hunting. 00:26:55 Speaker 9: I jump a lot more in the game than I do when I'm ordinarily hunting. 00:27:00 Speaker 1: I fell to my death several times, too. 00:27:03 Speaker 2: There's all kinds of wildlife you can hunt. You got white-tailed mules. Little turks. Oh, yeah, you got turks. 00:27:07 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:27:10 Speaker 2: The biggest thing that I like about the game, which is, which I think is the most interesting is the herd management. So each animal has kind of like a fitness levels. You can kind of determine the health of the animal and the age of the animal and the, the herd size and, and sort of health will change depending on what kind of animals that you kill and you harvest. And certain animals will grow throughout the years of, of, of playing in the years are condensed into sort of smaller time, time periods, but you'll see like the landscape and the herd sizes and herd health change depending on, on how you're hunting and, If you're only shooting trophy bucks, it'll look a lot different than if you're shooting the younger animals or stuff like that. 00:27:43 Speaker 1: This dude wheeled in the red dot shotgun. He's hunting Turks. 00:27:47 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's me. You can see my shot placement there. 00:27:52 Speaker 2: This is the bullet cam. 00:27:53 Speaker 1: Not ideal. 00:27:55 Speaker 2: It shows you all the internal organs of the animal and where your shot placement was. 00:27:59 Speaker 1: You totally missed his head. Is that a rope dragger? I can't see his beard. 00:28:06 Speaker 5: I don't know. 00:28:07 Speaker 8: It says it was 100% flesh. 00:28:09 Speaker 2: No spurs. 00:28:10 Speaker 1: There's female. 00:28:12 Speaker 8: Oh, poacher. 00:28:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, but. 00:28:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really gorgeous landscape. The one thing I liked about it as a sound guy is the sound design. There's sort of different biomes depending on where you are in the area. So the swampy area sounds a lot different than sort of like the alpine hunting and stuff like that. But I've been having a lot of fun. 00:28:31 Speaker 9: You can hear in your headphones the direction of the animal. So if you hear something break, like a twig break. 00:28:38 Speaker 1: Who's that guy? 00:28:39 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:28:40 Speaker 2: Phil introduced me. 00:28:41 Speaker 5: To all these characters. I was less interested in them. 00:28:46 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been great. And all due respect to Giannis, hearing a far-off bugle in this game sounds a lot better than Giannis' far-off bugle sound. 00:28:57 Speaker 1: Was that a grizzly bear? It was. 00:28:58 Speaker 5: Did you just shoot it? 00:29:01 Speaker 9: I shot that one a bunch of times. 00:29:03 Speaker 2: So we're, for those of you who are only listening, we're watching a video of Randall and I playing the game and you can watch the whole 15 minute video on the media. 00:29:12 Speaker 5: I fall to death. 00:29:15 Speaker 1: Do you guys, cause you guys are big buck hunter fans. Is this more fun than big buck hunter? I mean, it's gotta be, it's, it's way more absorbing, way more immersive. 00:29:24 Speaker 2: You got a truck. Oh, okay. 00:29:26 Speaker 5: No, the truck was fun. 00:29:27 Speaker 1: Can you hit the animals? 00:29:30 Speaker 5: I crashed the truck. I did a lot of things in this game that I don't do in real life. 00:29:37 Speaker 8: Phil, why is the camera quality so dang good there? It's better than we have in the studio. 00:29:41 Speaker 2: Shout out to developer Nine Rocks Games. It's great. 00:29:44 Speaker 1: Why do Phil and Randall look so good? 00:29:45 Speaker 8: Yeah, they're like triple HD. 00:29:48 Speaker 2: That's in my office. Film that in my office. Here's Randall driving the truck into... He's. 00:29:54 Speaker 1: Running that snorkel deal on his truck like he's from New Zealand. 00:29:58 Speaker 9: What I really enjoyed the most about this is getting up in the morning and drinking my coffee and Sidney asking me what I had to do today. And I said, Phil and I have this side project going on. We need to make this video. 00:30:13 Speaker 7: And. 00:30:15 Speaker 1: That's Phil celebrating a lot. 00:30:17 Speaker 5: Phil's way better at video games than I am. 00:30:19 Speaker 1: Phil's trophy room is going to be incredible. Get him again, Phil. Get him again, Phil. Phil's really good at this game. That was stressful. 00:30:41 Speaker 2: If you want to see the entire journey of Randall and I playing. And guess what? There's going to be two more videos. So there's a North American area in this game. There's also a whole African biome with a bunch of different African animals as well. 00:30:52 Speaker 5: Yeah, Phil's taking me to Africa. 00:30:54 Speaker 2: That's right. So check out the Meteor Clips channel if you want to see us in New Laurentia in Way of the Hunter 2. And then next month you'll see us in their African biome. 00:31:03 Speaker 8: I noticed Phil heart shoot a big whitetail there and it even did a big death kick. 00:31:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, had that hump up you want to see. It's good stuff. A couple of corrections real quick. 00:31:13 Speaker 8: Your news. 00:31:14 Speaker 1: Is this your news? Yeah. Sorry, Phil. Play your little dude. 00:31:17 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You know what? We'll just skip it today. How about that? 00:31:20 Speaker 1: No, play it. 00:31:20 Speaker 2: Let's skip it. 00:31:21 Speaker 1: No, I insist. 00:31:22 Speaker 4: Okay. 00:31:23 Speaker 1: Okay. Guy wrote in. So we did a meat eater sheds episode on our family fish shack up in Alaska. And a guy wrote in that I had some, and I feel like I looked this up online. I'm wrong or he's wrong? 00:31:42 Speaker 2: You're wrong. 00:31:42 Speaker 1: Okay. 00:31:43 Speaker 10: Well, we got to have sex as the camera guy, but. 00:31:45 Speaker 1: But either way, there's a scene where there's a couple of American flags put up in our outhouse. And I want to, like, I found those weirdly. I found those floating in the ocean. 00:31:58 Speaker 10: Oh. 00:31:58 Speaker 1: I slacked in that picture. And rescued them. And then looked up how I'm supposed to put them to hang them that way. And I screwed it up. 00:32:06 Speaker 7: Hmm. 00:32:07 Speaker 1: So how are they supposed to be? And this isn't something where the camera's like... That's what I got to ask. 00:32:12 Speaker 10: So if there's a picture. 00:32:13 Speaker 1: Seth will be able to answer that. I don't know. 00:32:15 Speaker 10: A guy writes in, Logan Hanson. 00:32:17 Speaker 1: No, because the hand sanitizer is where it belongs. 00:32:22 Speaker 10: And he said, I noticed something I couldn't brush past. I even went back to make sure I saw it correctly. In the outhouse of the Fish Shack episode of Meteor Sheds, the American flags are hanging with the Union portion, the stars, to the viewer's right-hand side. If this is due to camera flip process, then I stand corrected. But if not, we need to correct this detail. 00:32:41 Speaker 5: No, the slope of the hill makes it seem like it's definitely. 00:32:44 Speaker 1: No, that's right. 00:32:44 Speaker 2: I'm wrong. 00:32:45 Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I'm going to fix that pronto. See, we looked it up. Unless there's some problem with the other side of those. No, there's not. 00:32:50 Speaker 10: Flag code states, the U.S. flag code, when displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right. That is the observer's left. 00:33:03 Speaker 5: Good. 00:33:04 Speaker 2: So you got to flip a book. 00:33:05 Speaker 1: Well, no, I apologize to America and I'm going to, and thanks to this guy for pointing that out and I'll be fixing those quick. And I'm trying to get like points, points, redemption points by pointing out, I rescued those from the ocean. 00:33:17 Speaker 2: I have a flag in my office right now. It's hung just like that. So I'm going to flip that around. 00:33:22 Speaker 1: Oh, geez. 00:33:23 Speaker 8: Easy way to remember now, just be red, right? The red side goes on the right. 00:33:26 Speaker 10: Yeah. 00:33:27 Speaker 1: You can remember that from Marine navigation, red, right? 00:33:29 Speaker 5: Returning. 00:33:30 Speaker 1: Yeah. Red, right flag. 00:33:31 Speaker 5: So that's the first correction. 00:33:32 Speaker 2: Second one. 00:33:33 Speaker 10: Over the last few months, we've mentioned that we were unaware of the right to hunt and fish being used in legit legal proceedings. In episode nine, Nicholas Rodriguez writes in episode 943, Steve mentioned Rhode Island as one of the states where he suspected a more radical animal rights agenda would be tested as opposed to Colorado or somewhere else. I want to share a little context about my state. Rhode Island and California are the only two states whose constitutions explicitly protect the right to fish, but not the right to hunt. In 2008, a commercial fisherman challenged Rhode Island's fishing license restrictions, arguing they violated his constitutional rights. 00:34:10 Speaker 1: This is Riley versus Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management. 00:34:13 Speaker 10: Our Supreme Court upheld the restrictions, reasoning that the constitutional right belongs to the public collectively, rather than granting individual commercial fishermen unrestricted access. The court also emphasized the state's authority and responsibility to conserve fisheries. 00:34:28 Speaker 2: Signed, Nick. 00:34:30 Speaker 10: Behind enemy lines in Rhode Island. 00:34:32 Speaker 1: Hmm. 00:34:33 Speaker 10: So that's just interesting. We thought North Carolina's deal this year was kind of one of the first ones. 00:34:39 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:34:39 Speaker 5: Rhode Island. 00:34:41 Speaker 1: But point out that in this case, someone... I want to very quickly frame up what we're talking about. Roughly half of the states in the country have a constitutional right to hunt and fish. Apparently there's two with a constitutional right to fish. And I was questioning, when is that right ever leveraged... legally to affect change. He's got an example, but in some ways it's a non-example, because here's an individual trying to use it unsuccessfully. I'm interested in a situation where a piece of legislation comes up that would infringe on one's right to hunt and fish, And then some lawyer, some attorney would point out, Hey, this violates my constitutional right to hunt and fish. Therefore, I would like to see this corrected and have that be, or that a piece of legislation proposed legislation would be dismissed as unconstitutional because it infringed on one's constitutional right to hunt and fish still. Thanks for sending. 00:35:47 Speaker 5: Yeah, this is an example. 00:35:49 Speaker 9: The, the analog would be some guy yelled fire in a crowded theater. And then the court said, actually, that's not protected speech. 00:35:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. Good job, though, Rhode Island dude. 00:36:04 Speaker 10: Finally, our third correction. Last week, we were talking with Melanie Thornton from TRCP about the Colorado River, and we mentioned how Las Vegas recycles water and gets rid of grass. So Tor Leonard, T-O-R-R, just kind of wondering about the origin of that name. He writes in, When Steve asked about whether removing grass in Las Vegas was required by law, the guest said she thought it was voluntary. But Nevada passed a law in 2021 requiring businesses, apartments, complexes, apartment complexes, HOAs, other properties to remove decorative grass that serves no practical purpose by the end of 2026. Homeowners' private lawns are generally exempt. 00:36:42 Speaker 5: Just a clarification. Remove the grass that serves no purpose. I like it. 00:36:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just wonder how you go like, well, no, mine does. Yeah. I don't want to do a whole show on that, but I wonder about that. What that means exactly. If you go like, no, no, no. 00:37:01 Speaker 5: Producing oxygen. 00:37:01 Speaker 1: I go out there and I lay down on it. It serves a purpose. I'll just be curious more. We don't need to follow up on it. 00:37:10 Speaker 7: Okay. 00:37:11 Speaker 1: It will just become one of those things on this show, one of the many things on this show that never dies. 00:37:15 Speaker 2: Peter out. 00:37:16 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:37:19 Speaker 2: We'll send out. 00:37:20 Speaker 10: We got to vote on the best one. Setting out a Moultrie camera, whoever's the best. 00:37:24 Speaker 1: Flags. 100%. I'm flags. 00:37:27 Speaker 10: What are you voting for, Katie? 00:37:32 Speaker 1: Flags, Rhode Island. 00:37:33 Speaker 7: My vote matters here? 00:37:35 Speaker 1: Anybody in the room, even Phil votes. 00:37:39 Speaker 7: Yeah, the flags. 00:37:40 Speaker 10: Alright, the flags have it. 00:37:43 Speaker 2: Thanks, Logan. 00:37:46 Speaker 1: We good? Okay, jumping over. This is not one of Phil's things, Katie. You like that one? 00:37:56 Speaker 2: One of the better. Okay. Thanks, Katie. 00:37:59 Speaker 1: Only, only, only, only Finn's Katie. Do you know, can I tell you how I know about you and why you're here? 00:38:03 Speaker 7: I'm so curious. 00:38:04 Speaker 1: Yes. You want to know how I know about you and why you're here? Yes. Not why you're here, but why? Yeah. How I know about you. My, I've had the same literary litter. I can't even say the word. I've had the same literary agent for over 20 years. he brought you to my attention. He thinks you're a very good writer. 00:38:24 Speaker 7: Love to hear it. 00:38:25 Speaker 1: And he sort of wanted me to, he sort of wanted me to like, he didn't say this, but he kind of wanted me to suss you out. Okay. Cause he thinks you're really, he thinks you're a great writer. 00:38:36 Speaker 7: I appreciate that so much. 00:38:37 Speaker 1: But you make, but you're, you tell, tell people about your Instagram page. 00:38:43 Speaker 3: All right. 00:38:43 Speaker 7: Instagram page only fins, Katie. Um, I love a good pun. Um, I essentially started this Instagram page now 63 days ago or so under the guise of fishing every day until I can quit my job and get paid to fish. It started as just kind of holding myself accountable to get out and fish every day and learn how to fish. I had not fished really until maybe I'll say like February of this year. I went up in Kern and Sequoia and Fell in love with trout fishing, got super addicted. I was just using a Zebco push button rod and reel combo. 00:39:26 Speaker 1: Randall knows what those are called. 00:39:28 Speaker 5: Spin cast. 00:39:29 Speaker 6: There you go. 00:39:29 Speaker 1: Spin cast. 00:39:30 Speaker 7: The spin cast. 00:39:31 Speaker 1: There you go. 00:39:31 Speaker 7: Anyways, fell in love with it. My current day job, you're staring at a screen all day, every day. I've always loved nature, hiking, camping. Fishing was just another thing to add to the outdoors arsenal. 00:39:46 Speaker 12: That I love. 00:39:48 Speaker 7: Anyways, started this account, started with me just like learning in front of the public how to fish, putting myself out there, engaging. I don't have anyone within my family or friend group that fishes. I didn't have anyone to go to to like guide me on how to fish. 00:40:05 Speaker 1: And you live in L.A. 00:40:06 Speaker 7: I do live in L.A. Best place to fish. Best place to learn how to fish. 00:40:11 Speaker 2: Right. 00:40:13 Speaker 1: But how did fishing come on your radar? 00:40:16 Speaker 7: Uh, camping. So Kern County Kern river is this beautiful, beautiful river that runs through Sequoia. I like to liken it to the better version of Tahoe or the less explored version of Tahoe. People hate when I say that, but, um, very undiscovered pristine rainbow trout fishing there. Um, I was just like, why not? 00:40:38 Speaker 1: Why not? 00:40:38 Speaker 7: I love camping already. Let me just buy a cheap $ 30. Zebco and try my hand at fishing. fell in love with it it was awesome uh caught a bunch of rainbow trout did a catch and cook um probably went back again maybe like two weeks later and then again like the month after that and then i was like okay there's something that i love here um let me upgrade from the zebco um let me explore the ocean i mean i'm from la and the ocean's been there at my fingertips for forever but had never even tried saltwater fishing. So then I was like, I need to get my hands on a saltwater set up and get out there. 00:41:18 Speaker 2: Oh my God. 00:41:18 Speaker 7: Surf casting is, is no joke. I swear. The people who surf cast know they're never going to catch anything, but whatever. 00:41:25 Speaker 1: Yeah. Cause you fish a lot of, um, I don't want to be mean about it. It's not me. You fish a lot of not great fishing spots. I, Because part of your deal is like, you're just going to fish. Exactly. 00:41:39 Speaker 2: And you're in LA. 00:41:40 Speaker 1: And if it's a drainage canal, if it's a crazy park pond, it's like, if it's water, you're going to fish it. 00:41:48 Speaker 7: 100%. I mean, there's only so much. I mean, yes, the ocean is there. I live in East Los Angeles. Getting to the ocean can take two hours plus. I have a day job. After work, there's only so many places I can go to fish. So, yes, unfortunately, sometimes it is a drainage ditch. A lot of the times it is the L.A. River, which so many people will talk shit on and say like, oh, it's so disgusting. You're fishing in there like you're going to get a disease. 00:42:15 Speaker 1: But you catch a but you catch like an enormous variety. 00:42:21 Speaker 7: Oh, yeah, it's insane. That's one of the things that people have loved to see is like, wow, that's all the fish that you can find in the L.A. River or whatever weird ditch I'm in. Like there's no like a. 00:42:30 Speaker 1: Lot of kind of fish. Yeah, you catch fish I've never heard of. 00:42:34 Speaker 7: It's, it's almost every fish I catch now at this point. Now I know a decent amount of what's local in the area, but, uh, that was such a discovery to me too, just like every fish I was catching was new to me. So getting to learn about all the different species was awesome, but yeah. Oh yes. 00:42:53 Speaker 1: You caught a first scorpion fish and landed in the emergency room. Oh man. 00:42:57 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:42:57 Speaker 7: That was a good time. That was a good learning experience in front of the internet. Yeah, I did. I was going after spotted bay bass and ended up reeling in a California scorpionfish, also commonly known as a sculpin. I thought it was just a normal rockfish. And this was day seven of fishing every day. And went to unhook it. And this is me being ignorant, touched the fish right on the dorsal fin and several other places. It stung me like I think it was like five times in my finger. And I was alone fishing. I didn't know what was happening. I was just like, oh, it was a spine, whatever. My finger hurts. Kept fishing. And then I was like, oh, shit. Something's traveling up my elbow. Something's traveling up my entire arm. What's going on? Went on the internet and was like, oh, my God, that was a venomous fish. 00:43:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:43:51 Speaker 7: Didn't, I was alone, didn't know what to do. Went to urgent care. They didn't know what to do with me. They were like, we don't know what you're supposed to do with this. So they sent me to the ER, which was just kind of hilarious. 00:44:02 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:44:03 Speaker 7: They had to take x-rays of my finger because there were like spines still within my finger. I honestly think there's still one in. 00:44:09 Speaker 1: My, it doesn't act right yet. Yeah. 00:44:11 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:44:12 Speaker 7: Um, she was like, you could have permanent nerve damage. Who knows? Um, anyways, um, Amazing learning experience and lesson for me to obviously do your research before you touch any fish. 00:44:28 Speaker 1: What's the biggest fish you caught so far? You catch a lot of, with all due respect, you catch a lot of like interesting little small fish out of, right? But have you caught some hogs out there? 00:44:38 Speaker 7: Oh my God. What I would consider a hog is probably nothing to all of you guys. Yeah. I think the biggest fish I've caught at this point was within the LA Aqueduct, which is another not-so-pretty destination to be fishing. But I caught a channel cat that was 11 pounds. 00:44:58 Speaker 1: Oh, nice. Okay, that's a good channel cat. 00:45:02 Speaker 7: But yeah, my audience affectionately calls me the queen of the dinks, and I have come to be more than okay with that, and that's okay. 00:45:13 Speaker 1: When you say that, what in your mind does it mean to make a living fishing? 00:45:21 Speaker 7: So when I started this account, I had no idea because I was like, dude, you see these people catching actual hogs and they're real anglers. I knew I would never be that. I'm like, dude, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, how am I going to make a living fishing every day? It was just kind of a joke of like, I just want to stop looking at my computer screen all the time. And then the channels kind of evolved and this kind of circles back to like original just question of like writing and everything. But as the channel evolved, like if you start on day one and go to the most recent video that I posted for me, Fishing Montana, the other day, it's just content wise has drastically changed to where. I've kind of found myself where I can fit within the fishing community. And it is just a lot of humility, a lot of learning. But also, it's turned into almost like this philosophical travel history science channel disguised as a fishing channel. I'm using fishing as... the entry point into culture, history, a lot of pop culture references that I just love to inject in there too, just because it's something that's so easy for people to relate to. But it's almost turned into this like very mini educational platform, which I love. 00:46:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, you get into space exploration, gentrification, different videos, gentrification, like existential issues. Mm-hmm. uh, the impending doom of artificial intelligence all tied into like 90 second fishing videos. 00:47:05 Speaker 7: Oh my God. 00:47:06 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:47:06 Speaker 1: I think that's why my agent thinks you're a good writer. You have a good line too. You talked about that. It was a really gloomy day and you caught a bluegill and he said he had all the colors he could get his fins on and like good lines. 00:47:19 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:47:19 Speaker 7: I mean, I've always, I love reading. I love writing. Um, Originally, when I was in, like, high school, I thought I was going to be a journalist. Okay. Have always had a strong passion. And then my actual nine-to-five job is within the creative industry, not writing. But it's just, like, a skill set that I've always loved, but I've never had any sort of, like, reason to express or utilize so much. And then this account just, like, slowly started to evolve into that. And I was like, wow, I love this. This is turning into, like, everything that I truly love into like this little, little perfect, perfectly packaged thing. It's like the fishing, the outdoors, science, history, writing, um, and being creative. It's been awesome. 00:48:10 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people watching cause you're in some crowded spaces. 00:48:13 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:48:14 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. What's, what's your tackle shop? Like you throw to your tackle shop now and then. 00:48:18 Speaker 7: Um, yes, I have to do it. I have to shout him out. Martin. He's, um, Martin's Fishing and Tackle in East LA. Funny enough, the only reason I found out about his tackle shop is I was like in Marina del Rey pulling up to a harbor and I was like, can I even fish this harbor? And he pulled up and I saw maybe he had like 50 rods in his van. And I was like, I got to pick this guy's brain. Like, what's up with this fishing spot? 00:48:44 Speaker 1: Like he must get a discount on rods. It wasn't. 00:48:48 Speaker 7: I just wanted to know about the fishing spot, man. Um, and then he was just like, Oh yeah, dude, you got to hit up my spot. Like I'm right in East LA. He had no idea who I was. Um, and at the time I think I was maybe on like day 10 of fishing every day and, uh, went to his shop and just, he's such a, he's such a homie, um, gave me so much info at the time. This was actually before this was day six. I know this because day seven is when I got stung by the scorpionfish. I was really on the hunt for a spotted bay bass. I'd heard so much about how the fight is awesome. They get massive in parts of Marina del Rey, which is close to my office. So it was easy to jet over there after work. Had been on the hunt for one. Couldn't land one. They kept taking me under the rocks. I was like, dude, what am I doing wrong? Like, what is going on? So I was telling him about my journey to catch a spotted bay bass, and he gave me all these tips. He's like, bro, you're using the wrong bait. You need to be using these jig heads. What are you doing? He set it up. He set me up. I went back to that spot, got stung by the scorpion fish because I caught the scorpion fish on his setup, went to the hospital, and immediately after getting in the ER, went back to the fishing spot. 00:50:02 Speaker 1: You got a baby. 00:50:02 Speaker 7: I'm literally, like, fishing with my little hospital band on. And, yes, I land a. 00:50:06 Speaker 2: Spotty, dude. 00:50:07 Speaker 7: And it was big for me. I think it's big for that area, too. Please, someone say that I'm right and say that I actually caught a big fish. It was, yeah, it was awesome. And now I, like. 00:50:20 Speaker 7: Dude, now the spotties I can slay up and they're, they're so fun to catch. They're awesome. 00:50:25 Speaker 1: One of the, one of the first, one of your pieces I watched, what made me laugh is, you know, like the term like fighting a fish. So when you reel a fish, you dub in the sound of gunfire. 00:50:35 Speaker 3: I do. 00:50:36 Speaker 1: To make, to kind of like amplify the fight. 00:50:38 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:50:39 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:50:39 Speaker 7: Some people hate it so much. 00:50:41 Speaker 1: Like machine gun fire and stuff. 00:50:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. 00:50:43 Speaker 7: It's a fight. You gotta, yeah. It's a battle. You're battling the fish. 00:50:48 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you're good about reporting on what tackle you're using. Yes. 00:50:51 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:50:52 Speaker 7: Um, I feel like if I'm learning and other people want to know and want to learn with me, I gotta give the free, free information. 00:51:01 Speaker 1: Um, you know, you don't, so you don't cat, you don't cook these fish up ever. 00:51:08 Speaker 7: I've done a catch and cook once on my channel. 00:51:11 Speaker 1: This is when I was, I just mean like never even mind making a video. Like, just at home for dinner. You don't cook fish. 00:51:18 Speaker 7: Oh no, I love fish. But dude, eating fish out of LA is a little gnarly. 00:51:22 Speaker 1: I'm not about to eat an LA river fish. So like the bluegill, for instance, you just thought, I'm not going to eat a bluegill out of that water hole. No, no, no. 00:51:28 Speaker 7: If you were to actually see that little lake, that beautiful lake, no shade to this lake, but it's pretty dirty. You don't want to be eating there. Even like the ocean water within the LA area. One of the things I love about fishing is so much that I've learned, but In the 70s, a bunch of DDT barrels were dumped in between Catalina Island and Palos Verdes, and they still to this day are leaking out chemicals, and the fish that get tested there just have gnarly amounts of it within them, and there's fishing, eating, what do you call it? 00:52:02 Speaker 1: Guides. 00:52:02 Speaker 2: Consumption advisories? 00:52:03 Speaker 1: Yes. All around the area. Seth pays attention to those. He's the only guy that pays any attention to those things. 00:52:09 Speaker 3: You and him. 00:52:09 Speaker 7: It'll say you can have one yellowfin croaker a week technically like, and it didn't do it. I have no shade, like tons of people, 90% of the time I'm out fishing in the ocean. A lot of people are bringing them home and eating them. Um, I, I want to say that eventually I will, I think it's just maybe in the ocean specifically, I haven't felt like I've caught something worthy of like taking home and eating. Like it'll be some, you know, queen of the dinks. I'm catching small guys that I'm like, okay, yeah, technically I could bring this home and eat it, but it's not that much meat. Let me send you off to get bigger and hopefully you're waiting for me when you're bigger. 00:52:49 Speaker 1: So someday you might catch the queen mother of all eaten fish and cook it up. Totally. 00:52:52 Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, I've done. 00:52:53 Speaker 1: I don't really care. It doesn't matter to me. 00:52:55 Speaker 7: No, I've done up in further north in like Morro Bay area. It's called Moss Landing. I caught two beautiful, beautiful turkeys. chunky, uh, black surf perch. And I did a catch and cook with those guys. Cause that water is a bit cleaner. Um, and then when I've done the fishing in the Kern river for the rainbow trout, I've everything that I catch there. 00:53:17 Speaker 1: I eat. Okay. 00:53:18 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:53:18 Speaker 1: I got a question. It's going to, you're going to roll your eyes. I got to ask when you're running around LA, like at night in weird ass places, are you having, um, and I know you bring someone with you, but Are you having like crazy run-ins? I mean, do you ever feel like, man, I'm going to wind up getting like, like, uh, accosted, abducted, like some shit's going to happen to me if I keep doing this? 00:53:47 Speaker 7: Um, it's been, yeah, that's like so many people are concerned for my, like my audience. 00:53:50 Speaker 1: That's why, that's why I said you're going to roll your eyes when I ask. 00:53:52 Speaker 7: Just like, I'm like, you know, I swear I didn't roll my eyes. Um, LA has a very valid stereotype of being sketchy for sure. 00:54:03 Speaker 1: Um, Yeah, but you're going, it's not just, you're going to where, if I was a sketchy dude, I'd be like, I'm going to set up shop down along this canal. 00:54:12 Speaker 2: Dude, yeah, no, I mean. 00:54:14 Speaker 7: It's, it's, you head on a swivel. You gotta, you gotta be super aware of your surroundings. Um, specifically like parts of the most, I think people get really concerned when I'm in the LA river under freeways fishing at night. 00:54:26 Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Valid. 00:54:28 Speaker 7: But dude, honestly, like, uh, the first time I fished under the freeway at the LA river, um, a homeless guy, was fishing there next to me, and he was going for carp all he had. He just had the fishing line and hooks. We actually exchanged tackle. 00:54:43 Speaker 2: He was hand lining. 00:54:44 Speaker 7: He was hand lining. We exchanged tackle. 00:54:46 Speaker 2: That's cool. 00:54:49 Speaker 7: He was giving me all his carp tips. I was giving him hooks. 00:54:53 Speaker 1: Okay. So you guys have a little camaraderie. 00:54:56 Speaker 7: We have a little camaraderie. There have definitely been times where it'll be, it just starts, you just get a vibe and you're like, it's time. 00:55:04 Speaker 2: To wrap up. 00:55:05 Speaker 1: It's time to go to a new fishing spot. 00:55:06 Speaker 7: Or just, it's time to go home. Like it's 2 a.m. What are you doing under this freeway? 00:55:12 Speaker 1: So I'm not crazy to bring it up, but you don't, you haven't yet had a, like it was a scorpion fish that put you in the emergency room, not another canal. Not another human being. Not yet. 00:55:25 Speaker 7: Fingers crossed that doesn't happen. I try to be, yes, I know I'm fishing some sketchy areas, but Um, dude, you just gotta, I mean, that's like anywhere you are, like be aware of your surroundings. 00:55:36 Speaker 1: Do you ever have this last, this is the last like angle I'm going to take into this subject. Yeah. Are there spots, like let's take night fishing. Are there spots where you'd say, I'd love to night fish that, but no way. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. Yes. 00:55:51 Speaker 11: Yeah. 00:55:51 Speaker 1: That's what I should have asked in the first place. So there are spots you'd like to hit, but you would need a security detail. 00:55:57 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:55:58 Speaker 1: To then go hit it. Um. 00:56:00 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:56:01 Speaker 7: I don't know if anyone's heard of MacArthur Park. 00:56:05 Speaker 2: That's the under the bridge park. That's the heroin park. It's made famous by Red Hot Chili. 00:56:10 Speaker 1: There's good water in there. 00:56:12 Speaker 7: I see videos of people fishing it during the day, though. Catching massive carp in there. And I'm like, bro, I gotta hit that up. But it is definitely sketchy. Their city is trying to do their part to clean it up. 00:56:25 Speaker 1: But you don't even want to day fish it. 00:56:27 Speaker 7: I don't know. 00:56:30 Speaker 2: It's on my list. A carp's not worth a heroin deal. 00:56:32 Speaker 1: But you wouldn't... You'd day fish it, but you wouldn't night fish it. 00:56:37 Speaker 7: Yes. I really want to. I want to day fish it pretty badly, but. 00:56:43 Speaker 2: I gotta. 00:56:43 Speaker 7: Yeah. 00:56:44 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:56:44 Speaker 7: I want to. 00:56:45 Speaker 1: Okay. 00:56:46 Speaker 7: It's a little sketchy. 00:56:47 Speaker 1: What's the thing you think, like... What's the most surprising thing you've learned about fishing and fishermen? 00:56:53 Speaker 7: Surprising? 00:56:53 Speaker 1: Fishing and or fishermen. Um.... 00:56:59 Speaker 7: Dude, it's not even surprising. I never thought that fishing was easy, but it's fucking hard. The amount of resilience, maybe this is just LA fishing, but resilience you have to have to just find the spot that's not super pressured because there's only so many freshwater spots within the city. It's just like, Maybe that's the most surprising thing is just like finding a spot that's going to be like a honey hole and juicy and not overfished and not super pressured. That's been hard and surprising. But at the same time, the other side of the coin is what's also been surprising in a good way is like there actually are a lot of places to fish in LA. I feel like I'm rediscovering the city. I'm born and raised in LA, but I feel like I'm rediscovering the city. And this completely different lens. And it's turned into like, like my account, I feel like for all the LA content has turned into kind of this like love letter to the city in a way. It's like so cool that I'm like, dude, why would I ever have been under the 405 freeway in this ditch? 00:58:10 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:58:11 Speaker 7: Why would you ever have that reason? 00:58:12 Speaker 2: But here I am. 00:58:13 Speaker 7: And now I'm like learning about the LA river and like how important it actually is. And like, there's actually 200 different bird species that live. and this weird little ditch and however many different fish and this thriving ecosystem and learning the history about why it is now this concrete channel that it is now. But I guess that's this other surprising thing is just rediscovering the city and getting to explore these areas that even maybe I had been before, but rediscovering it within the fishing lens has been so cool. I mean, dude, the Santa Monica Pier, have been there maybe like four times in my life, even though I've been in LA and have always had like a very bad connotation with it. Cause it's just like hell. No, now, I mean, it's an awesome fishing spot. It's also hell because of how many people are there, but, uh, it's a vibe. 00:59:02 Speaker 1: It's a vibe. 00:59:03 Speaker 7: Um, I don't know if I need to fish there more than a couple times a year because of what you have to go through to get to the end of the pier. But yeah, it's been awesome just like rediscovering all these places. 00:59:15 Speaker 1: Do you have a day count at which if you're not making a living fishing, you quit? No, I'm so stubborn. Would you hit day 4,000? 00:59:28 Speaker 7: I mean, fingers crossed that doesn't have to happen, but, uh, dude, I want to say I'm so stubborn. I want to say that like, no. And if anything, like fishing is so, I'm saying this from someone who has not been doing it that often, but it's so ingrained in my life now that I'm like, I don't do like, it's just, it's, I'm going to be fishing forever. It's so addicting. 00:59:49 Speaker 1: What did you, was it like, if you had to rate just the whole experience of fishing with Corey? On a sliding scale of 1 to 10. Just the whole package. 01:00:02 Speaker 6: It's like a Disney movie, how perfect it was. 01:00:05 Speaker 7: Dude, it honestly was. 01:00:07 Speaker 2: It was a 10, dude. 01:00:08 Speaker 1: The experience of Corey. 01:00:10 Speaker 7: Corey is a 10. 01:00:11 Speaker 2: A 10? 01:00:11 Speaker 1: Dude, you should have. 01:00:13 Speaker 9: Been there for the first time in his life. 01:00:16 Speaker 12: Dude, listen, listen. 01:00:17 Speaker 1: No, I have to say it. 01:00:19 Speaker 7: When we first talked about where we were going to be fishing, Corey's like, we're like trying to brainstorm what's going to make sense. Cause he's, we're like, dude, the content is like, you're fishing in all these urban weird spots. That's not Montana. And he's like, but maybe there's a spot, there's a spot under a bridge. So it's kind of this urban feel. 01:00:35 Speaker 1: We'll try. Not just any bridge. I mean, it's like a bridge that, that bridge connects Seattle and Chicago. 01:00:40 Speaker 7: I didn't, I haven't had my chance to do my research on where we were fishing, dude. 01:00:44 Speaker 1: It's the I-90 corridor. 01:00:45 Speaker 3: All right. 01:00:46 Speaker 1: All right. 01:00:46 Speaker 2: All right. 01:00:47 Speaker 7: Um, We were there, yeah, we were there, and I started with my spinning setup, and I don't know, it was like my, maybe my fifth cast or something caught a whitey, and I was just like, bro, yeah. 01:01:00 Speaker 1: On a spinning rod? Yeah. What was you using? 01:01:04 Speaker 7: I was using a salamander Panther Martin spinner. 01:01:07 Speaker 1: Oh, that was all her. 01:01:10 Speaker 5: Her decision on the lure. 01:01:11 Speaker 2: Good choice. 01:01:12 Speaker 1: Wow. 01:01:12 Speaker 10: Yeah. 01:01:12 Speaker 7: Well, and the day, so when I arrived, I've got, I got here on Friday and Saturday, Sunday, I didn't have Corey to help me. I just went out and fish Saturday and Sunday freezing, by the way, I'm going from like 90 degree weather in LA to like 30 degree weather over the weekend, have never fished in snow or any weather below maybe like 50 degrees or something. But, um, Had my waders for the first time. Got into the lower Madison, fished that, and then fished the Gallatin. And I caught a brown trout. I was happy. I was, hell yeah. And you got to watch the video, dude. 01:01:47 Speaker 1: It's up. 01:01:50 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:01:50 Speaker 7: Caught a little brown trout. Was getting some bites in the lower Madison, but couldn't land anything. And then switched over to the Gallatin because it was just like, I don't know, this spot just. 01:01:59 Speaker 1: But you were freezing your ass too. 01:02:01 Speaker 7: Oh God. 01:02:01 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:02:02 Speaker 7: But I was fishing. I fished until I think like 7 PM both nights. 01:02:05 Speaker 1: Huh? 01:02:06 Speaker 7: I was, my feet were numb. I was scared. 01:02:08 Speaker 1: And then, and then how many fish did you guys catch yesterday? How many whitefish? 01:02:13 Speaker 5: You lost count. 01:02:14 Speaker 7: Uh, I did lose count, but did he get. 01:02:16 Speaker 1: You on the fly pole at all? Dude? 01:02:18 Speaker 7: Yeah, he did. 01:02:19 Speaker 3: He did. 01:02:19 Speaker 7: I started with the spinner and then the spinning rod. And once I caught with a spinning rod, I was like, I've accomplished that. 01:02:24 Speaker 10: Fine. 01:02:24 Speaker 7: We'll fly fish. 01:02:25 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:02:27 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:02:27 Speaker 1: You picked it up super fast. He's a professional. Did he tell you that? 01:02:31 Speaker 2: I've taught a lot of people how. 01:02:32 Speaker 6: To fly fish, but you were roll casting like a pro. 01:02:35 Speaker 2: He's just saying that. 01:02:36 Speaker 7: It's fucking hard, dude. Compared to just coming from like... Yeah, having to get out of the motion of... You just cast totally different. It's hard to snap out of how you'd normally cast a spinning rod. 01:02:49 Speaker 1: Any dudes camping under that bridge? Nope. 01:02:53 Speaker 2: A lot of graffiti. 01:02:53 Speaker 1: A lot of positive graffiti. Tell me about that. Real quick. 01:03:00 Speaker 6: I didn't see what you guys went and saw. 01:03:02 Speaker 2: Was there a Pokemon? 01:03:02 Speaker 7: Oh no, we were just cracking up. There was like a Pokemon graffiti thing and it's just within my content. Whenever I catch a new fish, I'm like, add it to the Pokedex. It's just like a thing, you know? 01:03:13 Speaker 1: Yeah. I love it. 01:03:16 Speaker 11: All right. 01:03:17 Speaker 1: That's good though. He's going to smoke these white fish up. They're smoking right now. Yeah. 01:03:22 Speaker 2: As we sit here. 01:03:23 Speaker 6: They should be ready for lunch after this. 01:03:25 Speaker 7: I think we caught six. 01:03:26 Speaker 1: That's a good smoked fish. That's a very good smoked fish. 01:03:28 Speaker 7: Oh, I'm so excited. Yeah, this was my first time catching a white. I got to add it to the Pokedex. 01:03:33 Speaker 1: That's a good native fish, too. Yeah. Browns, rainbows. Those are fish out of a barrel. Those aren't native fish. They're not from here. 01:03:42 Speaker 7: Yeah, I was reading. They're introduced by Europe. 01:03:46 Speaker 1: Suckers. Whitefish is a good native fish. Speaking of fish, over to Spencer Newhart's market report on panfish. 01:03:55 Speaker 8: Here's how Katie can try to make a living fishing. 01:03:58 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. The commercial sales angle. 01:04:00 Speaker 3: Yep. 01:04:01 Speaker 1: Genuine walleye canal flays or something. You know, your own little business. 01:04:05 Speaker 2: I bet they're good. All right. 01:04:07 Speaker 8: For this week's market report, we are looking at panfish prices, specifically the big three panfish, bluegill, crappie, and perch. We'll start with bluegill. Bluegill are one of the most farmed fish in America, but very few of those farmed bluegill are raised for their meat. at least for human consumption. The USDA estimates that 98% of commercial bluegill revenue comes from selling juvenile fish that are used to stock private ponds, both as a forage fish and a game fish. So there's a lot of bluegill raised here by folks, but very few of them get eaten by humans. It is uncommon for them to be raised for direct human consumption because they are expensive to feed and don't grow as fast as other farmed fish. 01:04:49 Speaker 7: Hmm. 01:04:50 Speaker 8: The wild caught bluegill. 01:04:51 Speaker 1: I'm learning so much, dude. 01:04:52 Speaker 2: This is good. 01:04:53 Speaker 8: We got a lot. The wild caught bluegill that do hit the market are largely coming from the Great Lakes, specifically Lake Erie. from anglers. That's my hand, actually. Way back in my hatchery days. If you go to Wikipedia and look at bluegill, it's not like an 8-inch bluegill. If you go to Wikipedia and look at bluegill, you'll see my picture on there. That's my hand. 01:05:22 Speaker 1: Really? Did you do that? 01:05:24 Speaker 8: No, it's because I worked for the U S fish and wildlife service. And so all my photos I would take when I worked for them were owned by them. And when they're owned by the U S fish and wildlife service, their public domain. So they end up all over Wikipedia. Um, so I have like, I don't know, dozens of fishing pictures on, on Wikipedia, this being one of them. Uh, so a lot of the wild caught bluegill that hit the market come from Lake Erie. Uh, it's from anglers from both sides of the border. The American South also has a small wild-caught bluegill market, but it seems like those fish largely come from private ponds. The commercial licenses for Lake Erie are pretty affordable for most Great Lakes states. It's less than a couple hundred dollars to legally net and sell fish. And in some places, the bluegill can be one of those fish. As for the prices, I break all these fish down into two groups. One is your local markets. Those are like farmer's markets, local grocery stores, Craigslist. And then there's your online retail. These are the large seafood distributors who ship frozen meat to your front door. They're the same places that will sell you crayfish and tilapia and catfish and crabs. So for local market prices right now in the United States, you're looking at about $ 18 per pound. For online retail, it's significant. 01:06:37 Speaker 1: For fillets. 01:06:38 Speaker 8: For fillets, yes. Online retail, $ 35 per pound. 01:06:43 Speaker 1: What? 01:06:43 Speaker 8: Here's an example. Oceanside Seafood. sells wild-caught bluegill fillets that are skin on and bones off for $ 40 per pound. 01:06:52 Speaker 1: That is an expensive fish fillet, man. 01:06:54 Speaker 8: Very expensive. They say it takes 15 to 20 fillets to make a pound, so that's about $ 2. 25 per fillet. They have 53 reviews for an average of 4.3 stars, so people are generally pretty satisfied. 01:07:08 Speaker 1: Do you mind if I read a quick little bit of that description? 01:07:11 Speaker 8: I'm going to finish here my bluegill thought, and then it's on you. Prices are now about double what they were 15 years ago. The price increase has outpaced most high-end seafood. One online vendor labels them as, quote, a seasonal and nostalgic luxury item. So that's how the sellers view Bluegill. It's a seasonal and nostalgic luxury item. 01:07:33 Speaker 1: $ 40 a pound. 01:07:33 Speaker 8: $ 40 a pound, and that's bones off, skin on. What do you got from the description? 01:07:38 Speaker 1: Well, I just was noticing they call it with a mild, slightly sweet flavor and tender texture. That says it all. 40 bucks a pound. 01:07:47 Speaker 8: $ 40 a pound. 01:07:49 Speaker 5: Phil, could you click over to the... This is a screen grab. 01:07:53 Speaker 8: What were you wondering? 01:07:54 Speaker 5: I wanted to see the dish that they made. I just wanted to get a better look at it. 01:07:58 Speaker 1: Fried bluegill. I wanted to get a better look at it. 01:08:01 Speaker 5: I understand. 01:08:03 Speaker 1: Can I say it one more time? 40 bucks a pound. All right. 01:08:07 Speaker 8: Next, let's look at crappie. Similar to bluegill, most crappie sold as food are wild caught. According to the USDA records that I found, there are 65 registered crappie ponds in the USA, crappie farms in the USA. Most of them are in northern states, which surprised me. In my head, that'd be like, oh, yeah, Alabama, Texas, Georgia, they got crappie ponds. It's actually like New York, Minnesota, Wisconsin. 01:08:32 Speaker 1: Yankees, man. Yankees in there catching all them crappies. 01:08:34 Speaker 8: So of the 65 crappie farms, only seven of them raise them to be food size. All the rest, just like the bluegills, they're solely sold as juveniles to stock private ponds. The source of those wild caught crappie has recently fluctuated. Up until this year, anglers on Lake Champlain in Vermont could sell the crappie that they'd catch with a rod and a reel. And these crappie made up the majority of the wild caught fish from American waters. But Vermont recently changed their regulations to outlaw this practice. Now, if you want to read about America's crappie market and how it used to be on Lake Champlain, go read Pat Durkin's article on the media.com called Cash for crappie. So previous to this year, though, there were a lot of crappie coming out of Lake Champlain that were largely sold in Vermont and New York. Now, most of our wild caught crappie market is made up of fish from the Canada side of the Great Lakes and tribal waters in the United States. All right, here's the price breakdown. Local markets, you're looking at $ 22 per pound. And online retail is $ 34 per pound. So the local markets are slightly more expensive than Bluegill because it's harder to find local fish. And the online markets are cheaper than Bluegill because Canadian anglers can satisfy the market. 01:09:57 Speaker 1: This is from Walleye Direct. 01:09:59 Speaker 8: Walleye Direct sells wild caught Canadian crappie in five pound batches for $ 169, which is $ 34 per pound. They say you get nine to 16 fillets per pound which comes out to about $ 2. 60 per filet. Their crappie listing has 31 reviews for an average of 4.7 stars. What do you think of that dish, Randall? 01:10:24 Speaker 1: I like it. 01:10:25 Speaker 5: I was about to say that's a nice-sized dish photo. 01:10:29 Speaker 1: Interesting to me. I'm glad to see it because I agree. Interesting to see that the crappie filets are less expensive than bluegill filets. My gripe with crappie filets being that they're too delicate. They are. And they have a structure that absorbs too much oil, I find. 01:10:50 Speaker 8: Now, online retailers, again, remember, these are largely coming from Canadian waters. Online retailers really lean into the Canada aspect for marketing, advertising that their crappies come from the cold, clear northern waters, so they have less of a muddy taste than our disgusting American crappies. 01:11:07 Speaker 1: I would tell that to the Kentuckians, man. 01:11:09 Speaker 5: Under how it tastes, tastes like it just came out of the lake, period. 01:11:15 Speaker 1: And then they also, they also describe it quite similar to bluegills, but this is, this, this is the best, this is your finest work. I got to point out, but, um, um, $ 40 a. 01:11:28 Speaker 8: Pound, $ 40 a pound for bluegills. Last one. Let's talk about yellow perch. Unlike bluegill and crappie, the perch market is heavily subsidized with farmed fish of the USDA registered 83 perch farms and Half of them raise the fish to be food size. This is a result of them being a greater demand for perch fillets than bluegill or crappie. So remember with the crappie, it was seven of 60 something. This one is like 40 out of 83 of the perch farms are selling their perch for food. The wild caught market is dominated by the Great Lakes, specifically the Canadian side of Lake Erie. And the buyers are located close by. It's estimated that 70% of all yellow perch sales in the United States occur within 50 miles of a Great Lake. This is from a study I found back in the late 90s, I believe. Those would be places like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Toledo, Green Bay, Grand Rapids, Rochester, Akron, South Bend, Duluth, and Erie. Those cities are basically the whole perch economy. And I think it's something we now need to refer to as the perch belt. of america that's great that's 70 of our perch are being sold uh the perch belt one seafood distributor estimates that the perch belt eats about 70 million pounds of perch annually uh perch is just the quintessential fish fry fish in that region for our southern listeners it'd be like a catfish to them is a perch to folks in that part of. 01:13:02 Speaker 1: The it's like it's like it's a fish that It was just made to be consumed in large numbers. 01:13:10 Speaker 12: Yeah. 01:13:10 Speaker 8: If you were to go to a cafe and they had fried fish on the menu, you'd expect it to be perch in that area. 01:13:16 Speaker 1: If someone invited you over for a perch. It would be smelt or perch. 01:13:18 Speaker 11: Yeah. 01:13:19 Speaker 1: Like if there was a bar that had fish fry Friday night, it's going to be smelt or perch. 01:13:23 Speaker 8: If you lived in that area and someone invited you over for a fish fry, you would almost certainly have perch there. 01:13:28 Speaker 10: Yeah. 01:13:28 Speaker 1: All right. 01:13:29 Speaker 8: So price-wise, local markets around the Great Lakes region, you're looking at about $ 20 per pound. Online retail- is $ 35 per pound. Farm Fresh Express sells them for $ 30 per pound. All of their perch come from Lake Erie. They say you get six to nine fillets per pound. So that comes out to be about $ 4 per fillet. 01:13:54 Speaker 1: God, you can't afford not to fish. 01:13:56 Speaker 8: Here's a summary for you. For the listeners who are trying to justify gas money and bait and new gear, according to the market, Pan fish per pound are more valuable than walleye, king salmon, and dungeness crabs. Taking average current prices into account, the keeper bluegill is worth about $ 4. 50, a keeper crappie is worth $ 5. 20, and a keeper perch is worth $ 8. And if you were to have a 25 pan fish limit, a mix of these three, you're looking at about $ 150 for the fish. It's just some fine dining. 01:14:30 Speaker 1: I have photos where there's $ 2, 400 where the perch piled up on the ice. 01:14:37 Speaker 8: The market is strong right now. 01:14:42 Speaker 3: Wow. 01:14:43 Speaker 5: That was a finely crafted segment. 01:14:45 Speaker 6: Did you make that graphic? 01:14:48 Speaker 1: I asked. 01:14:49 Speaker 5: The screenshot of the journal? 01:14:51 Speaker 2: It looks very similar to your Spencer's Orchard graphic. 01:14:54 Speaker 1: Unbelievable quality of the content. 01:14:57 Speaker 8: So $ 5 a bluegill, $ 5 a crappie, $ 8 a perch. That's where you're looking at today's prices. 01:15:02 Speaker 1: Unbelievable segment. 01:15:03 Speaker 5: Thank you. 01:15:05 Speaker 1: Too bad the Academy Awards or something. 01:15:09 Speaker 9: I'm wishing I could go back and prepare better for a video game segment. 01:15:15 Speaker 5: We take another swing at that? 01:15:17 Speaker 1: In a month. Unbelievably good segment. Thank you. Let me tell you what I liked about it. Here's what I liked about it. This is something that like this is close to my heart. So panfish. So to learn all this new stuff about something I already know. Well, it'd be like, if you did a report on my wife and you're like telling me stuff, I'm like, I didn't know that. 01:15:37 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:15:38 Speaker 8: Her favorite food is. 01:15:39 Speaker 11: Yeah. 01:15:39 Speaker 1: It'd be like, I was like, man, I didn't know all that about her. That'd be a great report. 01:15:43 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:15:43 Speaker 1: What would have you guessed? That report was like that. 01:15:45 Speaker 8: I would, I would have get, I would have put these prices like half of what For a segment like that? No, no, no, no. Like the price of a keeper perch. What would you guess that would have cost? 01:15:54 Speaker 2: Oh, at least half of that, I would say. 01:15:56 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:15:56 Speaker 1: If you said, hey, what's this perch worth on the market? I would have said, I probably would have come in at like, maybe it's a buck. Yeah. 01:16:04 Speaker 5: A pound of bluegill. 01:16:06 Speaker 7: Yeah. 01:16:06 Speaker 1: I would have guessed $ 15 a pound. 01:16:07 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:16:08 Speaker 8: Now those prices per fish, that's uncleaned also, which I think is part of the market value. Like to pay somebody to clean a hundred bluegill- That's a, you know, someone's spending a lot of time doing that. I don't think there's a machine pumping that out for them. 01:16:21 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I was just forced to clean them. 01:16:23 Speaker 7: Yeah. 01:16:23 Speaker 1: I didn't get paid to clean them. You come home from school and had to flay fish. It's terrible. 01:16:28 Speaker 2: Aren't there, I think there are fish flay machines though that could do those. 01:16:32 Speaker 1: There's a, there's a machine that does Great Lakes whitefish beautifully. There's probably a perch machine. 01:16:36 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:16:37 Speaker 1: There's a machine you run that flay through, flays it, pin bones it, skins it. 01:16:42 Speaker 7: Yeah. 01:16:43 Speaker 8: You're right, Seth. There's got to be a machine doing this for this. Otherwise it's, I would assume the price was baked into that, though. Like, when I see that price, I'm like, that's because some poor. 01:16:51 Speaker 2: Soul is cleaning hundreds of bluegills. 01:16:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe. 01:16:54 Speaker 8: Okay. 01:16:56 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz. Senator Ted Cruz on Cormorants. This might be the first. I don't follow Ted Cruz too carefully. I don't think of him as a wildlife guy. 01:17:04 Speaker 2: Well, think again. 01:17:05 Speaker 6: It's going to be hard to follow up Spencer here. 01:17:09 Speaker 1: Did you have any, like, interesting graphics? No, dude. 01:17:14 Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot of time. 01:17:14 Speaker 6: We've been fishing. 01:17:15 Speaker 1: No, I understand. 01:17:16 Speaker 2: Wasn't Ted Cruz the guy that said Texas is 2% public land and it's 2% too much? 01:17:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not a big public land guy whatsoever. I just don't think of him as, I feel him, he's not an outdoorsman. Yeah. I just was surprised to see him weigh in on wildlife, but when he weighed in on wildlife, it was to like 2%. Kill a bunch of it. Right. You know, which is whatever. Let's hear the segment. 01:17:39 Speaker 2: Well, just you wait here. 01:17:40 Speaker 8: Just this last September, U.S. 01:17:42 Speaker 6: Senators Ted Cruz of Texas and Katie Britt of Alabama introduced the Responsible Cormorant Management and Control Act of 2026. A companion bill, H.R. 1, I'm sorry, 8195, was introduced in the House earlier this year by Representative Tim Wahlberg of Michigan, and that was advanced by the House Natural Resource Committee Committee. That legislation would require the U.S. Department of the Interior to develop regional management plans for double-crested cormorants. So why are these elected officials so worried about cormorants? 01:18:14 Speaker 1: Same reason he was just talking about. 01:18:17 Speaker 2: Because they're getting pressure from commercial fishermen. 01:18:19 Speaker 6: They're not as worried about the cormorants. They're more worried about the aquaculture, agriculture operations, particularly the catfish industry, as well as recreational fisher folk. and fisheries biologists and how the rebounded population of double-crested cormorants are and have been wreaking havoc on the fish and their fish farms. A recent study, a 2021 study, so not that recent, out of Mississippi State University found that in the Mississippi Delta region, one cormorant can eat approximately one pound of fish per day. 01:18:52 Speaker 1: Wow. Commercial catfish. How much does his ass weigh? 01:18:55 Speaker 6: They're pretty big birds. 01:18:57 Speaker 2: I don't know. 01:18:57 Speaker 1: That's a good question. 01:18:58 Speaker 5: They're giant. 01:18:58 Speaker 1: They're way bigger than you think. 12 pounds. That's my guess. 01:19:01 Speaker 2: But go on. 01:19:01 Speaker 8: Oh, I bet they're less than that. I bet an eagle is like 12 pounds. 01:19:05 Speaker 6: Is a pound of fish in his neck? It's hard to say. Commercial catfish make up 33% of a cormorant's diet in the Mississippi Delta region. And during the winters of 1617 and 1718, cormorants consumed 1.2 to 1.6 million pounds of catfish, or about 10.3 and 12 million catfish, respectively. Cormorant depredation on commercial catfish farms industry-wide results in a loss estimated at the range of 25.8 to 65.4 million dollars annually. 01:19:38 Speaker 1: Them suckers are... Can you edit out my earlier guess, Bill? Yeah. Or dub in me going 2.6 to 5.5 pounds. Yeah, I'll take the time. So he's eating a pound of catfish. 01:19:53 Speaker 8: This says a double-crested cormorant is 3 to 6 pounds. A bald eagle, for comparison, is 6.5 to 14. 01:20:02 Speaker 3: Go. 01:20:03 Speaker 5: Big wingspan. 01:20:03 Speaker 1: Big neck. 01:20:05 Speaker 6: I dove pretty deep and watched a lot of videos of cormorants eating fish. 01:20:08 Speaker 1: It's pretty wild. I mean, they're swallowing huge fish. Just sucking them down. 01:20:13 Speaker 8: Ninja bird. 01:20:14 Speaker 5: Boy, what a fun pairing between the two stories. 01:20:16 Speaker 6: I know, they're very similar. Here's a brief North American double-crested cormorant timeline. 01:20:21 Speaker 1: Oh, please. This is great. Is there a graphic? No, I got nothing. 01:20:27 Speaker 6: Starting in the early settlement days in the 1800s, early European explorers like Samuel de Champlain and naturalists like John James Audubon noted large native cormorant colonies along North America's regional coasts. As westward settlement expanded, humans frequently shot the birds, viewing them as dirty, gluttonous, and a threat to their fish stocks. In the late 19th to early 20th centuries, intense hunting and local persecution drove steep population declines. The birds were completely extirpated from certain areas, such as parts of Massachusetts, by the late 1800s. 01:21:00 Speaker 1: Hmm. 01:21:02 Speaker 6: In the mid-20th century, populations suffered another major crash in the 50s and 60s with widespread use of DDT, which caused eggshell thinning and breeding failures alongside losses from oil spills and other water contaminants. But since the 70s, particularly 1972, double-crested cormorants have been protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. Populations have grown roughly 2.6% per year between 66% and 2019, doubling in some regions like the Great Lakes. 01:21:34 Speaker 1: And today, the U.S. 01:21:35 Speaker 6: Fish and Wildlife Service estimates there's between 870,000 to over 1 million double-crested cormorants within the United States and Canada. So that's potentially a million pounds of fish per day. 01:21:47 Speaker 5: Got it. 01:21:48 Speaker 1: Got it. 01:21:50 Speaker 6: The Responsible Cormorant Management and Control Act of 2026, if passed in both the House and Senate, would readdress that 1972 amendment. The bill still has a way to go before becoming to law, but for now it represents a step towards science-based regional management of the double-crested cormorant, while still requiring cormorant populations to remain at sustainable levels. The hope here is this would better protect the fish resources that support commercial fisheries, America's catfish industry, as well as recreational anglers. 01:22:22 Speaker 1: This ties in to the new executive order. on priorities around fishing, where it talks about taking a greater look at predation of fish, that wasn't addressing aquaculture facilities, but just wild fish. I actually, I like this. I like this. I don't think you want to knock them back to 1972 levels by any stretch, but I don't, I'm not opposed at all to, to lowering cormorant numbers in order to increase fisheries output. 01:22:56 Speaker 12: Yeah. 01:22:57 Speaker 8: At all. 01:22:58 Speaker 6: I'm hoping soon we might have a new Pardon My Plate episode with a cormorant. 01:23:03 Speaker 8: They kill them in Canada. 01:23:04 Speaker 1: Yeah. And they already got egg crushing programs on islands and stuff. But I think it's real case by case. 01:23:11 Speaker 8: They can't possibly taste good. 01:23:13 Speaker 12: No. 01:23:13 Speaker 8: That's got to taste like eating a minnow out of the minnow bucket. 01:23:16 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:23:16 Speaker 6: There's a lot of hilarious recipes out there where you say like put the bird on a brick, light the brick on fire, you throw the bird away, eat the brick. 01:23:24 Speaker 1: That's the oldest joke I've ever heard. 01:23:26 Speaker 10: Yeah. 01:23:26 Speaker 2: I don't know. 01:23:26 Speaker 1: I'd be curious, though. So what more? That's about it. 01:23:31 Speaker 6: I have this really funny recipe from this cookbook in 1965, but we can move on. 01:23:37 Speaker 1: When zebra mussels came into the Great Lakes, what kind of gave away the ending? 01:23:47 Speaker 2: Zebra mussels. 01:23:49 Speaker 1: This ties into both y'all's segments. There was a yellow perch... in the Northern Great Lakes in the 90s. I mean, just yellow perch stocks just plummeted. And a lot of people were assigning blame and a lot of the blame was assigned to cormorants. And I had some close friends that were involved in this prolonged predation study where they went out and netted thousands of yellow perch and put a little micro tag next to their dorsal fin. And then you wait a while and they would go to all of the cormorant rookeries looking for their little tags to see how many of these yellow perch were getting digested and excreted out in cormorant rookeries. And the verdict was already out among them. fishermen in this area they knew what the problem was the problem was cormorants and that was like a joke for a long time like god cormorants you know people hated cormorants i i i might be wrong but i think they found a tag a tag So in that case, in that area, blame was put on the double-breasted cormorant. But that was when things were really tipping and the ecosystem was getting so upset by zebra mussels. And it threw the whole system out of whack. Changed fish distribution, changed bottom structure, changed everything. Food, water clarity. But again, it was like people look and they see a thing and it's visible. And they had attribute it to it. But you can't argue with the numbers. 01:25:46 Speaker 2: Right. 01:25:47 Speaker 1: You know, it's like people say with wolves, like, I don't know. They eat seven pounds of meat a day. It's got to come from somewhere. 01:25:52 Speaker 2: You know, we should make sure it says ban cormorants, not live scope. 01:26:01 Speaker 1: That's a good idea for sure. Put that new in emoji. 01:26:05 Speaker 6: The big cormorant just sitting above. 01:26:08 Speaker 1: They're wild looking. Good. 01:26:19 Speaker 10: Mary Peltola. 01:26:20 Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to jump over to... Speaking of fisheries, this is a very well-constructed episode. Wow. Speaking of all that, declining fisheries, we're going to step over and speak with Alaska native and Senate candidate Mary Peltola from the state of Alaska. okay, everybody, we got a, we got a super interesting segment right now because we're, we're joined here with Mary Peltola from Alaska, who is running for the United States Senate. Um, Peltola has held a U S congressional seat, but is, is looking to, to come into the U S Senate. Should she, should voters send her to the Senate on November 3rd? Um, I would argue that she would be probably the least conventional, most unconventional senator to ever enter that chamber. In that, she grew up in coastal Alaska, surrounded with subsistence fishing, commercial fishing, just a very unusual background. And Mary, thanks for taking a couple minutes to talk to us. I know it's a super busy time of year from, for you, uh, you, you political folks. So thank you very much. 01:27:42 Speaker 12: Thank you, Steve. It's good to be here. 01:27:44 Speaker 1: Can you tell people a little bit about your, you know, I want, I want to stick to fish here as we discussed, but can you tell people a little bit about your childhood relationship to salmon and some of the activities you were brought up around some of the activities you were brought up doing? 01:28:04 Speaker 11: So I'm from the Kuskokwim River. The Kuskokwim is in the southwest portion of Alaska. We're above Bristol Bay and right below the Yukon River. 01:28:13 Speaker 12: We're huge. And we have historically had. 01:28:16 Speaker 11: Millions and millions of salmon returning every year, all five species. The tributary that I'm from, that my mom is from, is called Gwihluk. 01:28:25 Speaker 12: It means bad river or muddy river. 01:28:28 Speaker 11: And even that tributary had millions and millions of chum salmon returning historically, millions of Chinook salmon, silvers. In recent history, like the last 80, 90 years, we've also seen the in-migration of sockeye salmon, reds. And it was really interesting growing up with my mom's first cousin, Robert, he would talk about when they first saw reds show up and they were, what is this? 01:28:56 Speaker 12: What is the species? 01:28:57 Speaker 11: And In Bristol Bay, they have historic massive runs of sockeye. So we use their word for red, saillite. And now you're seeing them migrating even more to the north, which is really good for reds. Reds are one of the salmon that do really well with ocean temperature rise, with their one or two degree temperature rise. 01:29:23 Speaker 1: Huh, okay. 01:29:24 Speaker 12: Yeah, the reds. 01:29:25 Speaker 11: Salmon that do the worst under those conditions are Chinook salmon. And that's why I think statewide, every single tributary in Alaska, we've seen a massive decline in the number of Chinook salmon returning. But when I was growing up, we grew up, I grew up commercial fishing. My dad had a commercial fishing permit and my sister and I would take turns being his helper. And so when I started, I was six, she was nine. He wouldn't bring us both at the same time because he found that we were either playing or fighting and not being good helpers. So we would each take turns going out every opener. And I just, you know, one of my earliest memories as a six-year-old was commercial fishing with my dad. And 4th of July is the peak of our chum run. And my dad was borrowing a really small wooden homemade skiff, really, you know, small, short sideboards. 01:30:23 Speaker 12: And the runs were so huge. 01:30:25 Speaker 11: The returns of salmon were so tremendous that a couple long drifts, you know, I grew up commercial drift net, gill net fishing. And at that point, we could use a full shackle. So 50 fathom net, just a few drifts, you could practically, you could swamp your boat. You could just catch so many. You know, all of us kind of have these stories of setting your net around the 4th of July, hoping to catch like six chums. And by the time you've got the full length out, it's sinking and you're panicking. 01:30:58 Speaker 12: And it's like, get this in as soon as you can. 01:31:01 Speaker 11: Don't even bother picking the fish because your net is literally sinking. And, you know, you're pulling them in kind of like grapes, you know, like clusters of fish. And, you know, when I was in college, I worked for our state department of fish and game. And during this time, I remember in my sleep, I would see these tangled up chums and chums are spinners. They get in the gill net and they spin around and they circle back and they get in these real tangled pockets. So even in my sleep, I would see this mess of chums that you'd have to try to untangle to get out. But this was kind of the abundance that we grew up with. So many salmon, it would swamp your boat. So many salmon, you're kind of having nightmarish dreams about picking your net. 01:31:53 Speaker 12: There's just so many. 01:31:55 Speaker 11: And then fast forward to around 2009, 2010, 2011, and it was shocking. My husband and I, the scenario had always been when we were going to check our set net, we were really worried that we would catch too many, so many that we wouldn't be able to harvest them in one day, like 80 or 90 at a time with these really short set nets. 01:32:20 Speaker 12: But then we were showing up and there'd be, you know, 20. And then one year we. 01:32:25 Speaker 11: Were checking our set net and it was single digit numbers. And, you know, that's when we all have to kind of stand back and pause and say, what is going wrong here? What are we collectively doing wrong to create a situation where there is just so few fish now? 01:32:42 Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit about the. The decline in fisheries that you're talking about, some of the things that might be contributing to that. But also it's just been interesting, within that answer, if you can touch on this, it's been interesting that as people are looking ahead to the election and really anticipating, is the Senate going to flip? And Alaska is one of those states where there's a lot of attention being paid due to that question. But at the same time, one of the key issues is, one of the key political issues in Alaska are fisheries. And so we're in this really weird situation that might seem very strange to people in the lower 48, or as you guys would say, the people on the outside, is we're in this strange situation where fisheries are at a level of heightened national significance right now because they're so important to the race in Alaska and because the race in Alaska is so important to control of the Senate. So just again, to remind you, like it's a two-part question. What are some of the things happening to deplete fisheries in Alaska? And how has this turned into a political issue? 01:34:00 Speaker 11: Well, and honestly, as an Alaskan, as an Alaskan who depends on our seafood resources, our salmon industry, our, you know, just a healthy ecosystem up here, I am so thankful that this is a marquee issue in Alaska, that it's a marquee issue in the lower 48, because for so long we have felt like this is the best kept secret in Alaska and the best kept secret in. 01:34:25 Speaker 12: The lower 48. 01:34:26 Speaker 11: So I'm really thankful that this is the topic. In Alaska, we recognize that there have been so many changes in the last 20 years in terms of You know, farm fish has taken up such a huge market. 01:34:42 Speaker 12: Share for our commercial fishermen, and that's a huge concern. 01:34:47 Speaker 11: I think as Alaskans, as commercial, as the commercial industry realizes that's one of the biggest threats is the farm fish. The other big threat is ocean temperature rise, and I mentioned it at the beginning. The winners in an ocean, one or two degree ocean temperature rise are sockeye salmon, and that helps Bristol Bay grow. But for those of us in every other river system who really depend on Chinook salmon, that's one of the biggest losers. And, you know, we had five snowless winters in the early teens. And because of that, like by the fifth summer of a snowless winter, we had chum salmon floating down the river, completely unmolested, like nothing. There were no gillnet marks or there was nothing that outwardly killed the salmon. And then they find out that they're actually having heart attacks or having heat strokes because the river is 70 something degrees, um, above zero and it's, you know, 90 degrees, um, in the, in the shade. Um, so that those are all, you know, very, very damaging and challenging on salmon. Um, we know that, um, Ocean acidification is also a problem. One of the biggest food sources for salmon is zooplankton, and zooplankton needs a certain level, you know, a certain pH. And when we have a really acidic ocean, that just really impacts the salmon's food. 01:36:18 Speaker 12: But on top of that. 01:36:20 Speaker 11: You know, for so many decades, it has just felt like statewide candidates have just kind of brushed the fisheries issues aside and said, oh, it's too complicated. 01:36:30 Speaker 12: I can't understand that. And that's just silly. 01:36:32 Speaker 11: It is not that complicated. Yes, there are a lot of complicating factors, but the one issue that we are really seeing a movement on, because it's hard to impact acidification and ocean temperature rise at the state level, at the federal level. So one of the easiest things that we can do is get our arms around the trawl fleet. And this is industrial factory trawling. And we're talking about metric tons of forage fish being harvested and then metric tons of bycatch. And every fisherman knows that bycatch is inevitable, but chucking over metric tons of juvenile halibut, salmon, and crab, it's got to have a cumulative effect. And there really is a movement across Alaska and it's So nonpartisan, this is not a partisan issue. Food and food security and taking care of our environment and not being wasteful, that is not a partisan issue. And so across Alaska, seafood and salmon and fish, whether it's herring, halibut, crab, salmon, all of these things are part of our cultural identity. And this is how we really see ourselves. And so when we're seeing this really wasteful industry that does so much environmental damage and yeah, you know, and, and I can see why they would feel like it is not just us and we're not saying it is just that, but this is the one thing that is easy to get our arms around. This is a practice that is not tolerated in most parts of the world. Most fisheries have said no to industrial factory trawling and the fact that it happens in Alaska legally on our own shores by our own government. And so much of the um, economic benefit does not impact Alaska. We've got these industrial factory trawlers, not only are they usurping and really, um, taking so much of the resource, but they're also processing it offshore. So where our small communities aren't even benefiting from the processing of it. Um, and then they don't have to, um, be taxed at the rate they would be if they were processing onshore. So there are some cascading effects, but all of this is such an affront to Alaskan values of not wasting and then being better at sharing. 01:39:05 Speaker 1: What do you feel could happen on the federal level to address this? let's say the one issue that you said that can be addressed, like the commercial trawl industry, what could happen at the federal level that would start to address it or, like you said, get your arms around the issue? Because that does seem to me, you know, coming in and battling ocean acidification or battling the warming of the oceans seems, you know, like brings to mind like the Don Quixote, but the trawl thing seems more solvable, but what would it take at the federal level to start getting a handle on that industry? 01:39:52 Speaker 11: Well, the political will, and honestly, that comes from the outside. We need voters to really move the dial on that. So much of what happens in the Senate and the House and at the legislative level, people imagine that the legislator's are the thermostat. 01:40:10 Speaker 12: It's really the public. The public is demanding this change. 01:40:14 Speaker 11: And I think that the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council, we really need to look at the composition of that management body. When you're looking at the composition of the board, what dictates that is the Magnuson-Stevens Act. And Ted Stevens is one of our most revered senators. And he is one of the co-authors of that legislation. And it dictates who sits on the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council. We have a member from Washington. We have a member from Oregon. We have agency staff. And then it is primarily the industry. So it's the fox watching. 01:40:57 Speaker 12: The hen house. 01:40:57 Speaker 11: And in my opinion, we really need that body to really reflect Alaska more. There has been a movement for years to have tribal members sit on the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council. They wouldn't have a majority. They would be such a mini minority. I don't know what the threat is of just having members who are more reflective of Alaska. We don't have enough people who are not industry folks or agency folks who really live off the land and depend on those resources. They've really kind of been aced out of the conversation. I know there are a few members on the AP. It's one of their committees, but not enough to make a dent, not enough. 01:41:41 Speaker 12: To really move the dial. 01:41:43 Speaker 11: The few individuals who get on there from the public, it's just like you say, it's Don Quixote. 01:41:49 Speaker 12: You know, you're just so alone. 01:41:53 Speaker 11: And it's so easy for these industry folks to just kind of gaslight and gaslight the situation. And we just want a body that is reflective of the user groups and not just the industry. And if you're somebody who lives on the Kuskokwim River, it just feels like legal corruption. And it really is our most present example of corporate greed, where we have these huge corporations coming in and just usurping all the resource, taking all that money and leaving the state And, you know, we don't even have scraps left. We're fighting over crumbs here. And on our rivers, like the Yukon River, they have been told they are not allowed to fish for salmon for seven years running. This has just had such damaging effects. And then on top of that, you've got the war in Iran and the exorbitant fuel prices now. 01:42:56 Speaker 12: Shung Naks paying $ 26. 01:42:57 Speaker 2: 82 a gallon. 01:43:00 Speaker 11: Most rural communities are paying around $ 10 a. 01:43:02 Speaker 12: Gallon for gas. 01:43:04 Speaker 11: And on top of not having that, just, you know, we really became one of the most foundational parts of our culture in Western Alaska is the reliance on salmon. And we are accustomed to being able to harvest hundreds of salmon a year for each family. And that really is the foundation of all of our nutrients, it is so expensive. So it's just insult to injury. And we're not having conversations with people about this around the state. And I think that's another reason it's such an emotional and one of the reasons we're so fired up about this is because folks in these rural places are feeling starved out and feeling like no one is even coming to talk to them about these issues. 01:43:58 Speaker 1: My last question for you, and it's as much an observation as a question, is that you've spent your life in fisheries, and you know that oftentimes when there's a sort of resource argument, you find that recreational fishermen will feel like they're pitted against subsistence fishermen, and subsistence fishermen will feel like they're pitted against recreational and commercial, and the recreational guys are blaming the commercial guys and vice versa. It seems to me that the the situation with the salmon fishery and halibut fisheries in Alaska is becoming more of a unifier right now. And then I think that there's, I I'm feeling like a lot of different kinds of fishermen, meaning, you know, recreational tourism, people that come up subsistence, people like how you were brought up commercial people, um, that they're all coming together and realizing that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. And it seems like it's moving beyond just blaming each other for it. Is that your feeling from when you're out talking to people in communities in Alaska? 01:45:09 Speaker 12: It really is. 01:45:10 Speaker 11: And we've all gone through the phase of blaming each other. We've gone through, I liken it to the stages of grief. And you go into these management meetings and you can see where different people are. And, and a lot of times you're, you're just kind of sliding up and down, you know, the, um, range of emotions in these meetings, but, um, no, we are, it is really impacting every sector, whether it's commercial, like you say, or sport or, or, um, those of us who are living off the land, um, And it is galvanizing. And this is such a nonpartisan issue. 01:45:48 Speaker 12: And it's a movement. 01:45:49 Speaker 11: And I know I often get the credit or the blame for elevating this. It is not me elevating this alone. 01:45:56 Speaker 12: This is a movement. 01:45:58 Speaker 11: I am one of tens of thousands of Alaskans who have just had it on this. 01:46:04 Speaker 12: And people have been. 01:46:06 Speaker 11: Going to the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council for years now saying the same thing. You get I think two whole minutes, if you're a member of the public to try to encapsulate, um, how damaging, how impactful this is to our families. Um, and I think folks, you know, we're so thankful that this issue has been elevated to the level that it is being elevated to. We're so thankful that this campaign is about Alaskan issues and issues that really resonate here with people on a day-to-day basis. Um, is so often in national races and in election cycles, these discussions seem to be about really abstract things, things happening in faraway places, and nothing is more personal to Alaskans than the way we eat and how we hunt and fish and our access to hunting and fishing and our rights to hunting and fishing and being able to pass on those traditions and the values inherent in those traditions. You know, I can't teach my kids how to be Alaskan or how to be Yupik unless we're actually hunting and fishing. I can't teach them from a book or with words or pictures. The only way to do it is to be actually doing it, to be out on the land, teaching your kids how to read the weather, how to respect your catch, how to make sure you're sharing your harvest with other people, maintaining that balance and coming to hunting and fishing with. 01:47:37 Speaker 12: The right attitude. just the, the tiny rules that we have to live by. 01:47:41 Speaker 11: I mean, you'll, this'll resonate with you, Steve, just the basic rule of when you're outdoors camping and fishing, you don't complain. You don't talk about being hungry or cold or tired. Um, that's off the table. Um, you, you, those are not things that you learn unless you're really out there doing it. Um, so, and you know, one of my favorite values is like, you know, when you're processing fish, when you're, um, interacting with your game, you have to be in the right mindset. You cannot be in a bad mood. You have to be grateful. You have to be calm. And what a great value to teach people. You cannot say disparaging things or things that might disrespect. 01:48:27 Speaker 12: Your harvest, your catch. 01:48:30 Speaker 11: Just everything about living off the land teaches you such important values and skills that are transferable to everything. So, and As Alaskans, this is not a partisan issue. 01:48:41 Speaker 12: This is just who we are. 01:48:44 Speaker 1: Well, Mary Peltola, thank you for coming on and talking about the issues. And we'll be watching. I'll be waking up on November 4th, very curious about what happens up there. So thank you very much for coming on. 01:48:57 Speaker 7: Thank you. 01:48:57 Speaker 11: And it might take a few weeks for all of our ballots to come in. So it might be around Thanksgiving by the time we know how this race turns out. But it's neck and neck. So I'm going to need every vote I can get. 01:49:08 Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. Thanks again. Thanks, Steve.