00:00:04 Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show, everybody. This week, we've got bubbly Doug Duren on a Wisconsin David versus Goliath power line story. We've got Nantucket will seriously pay you to hunt deer. 00:00:17 Speaker 2: Seriously. 00:00:19 Speaker 1: We got the Trump administration is taking steps to increase access. So that's good. We got Spencer digs in. 00:00:25 Speaker 2: Nice. 00:00:27 Speaker 1: You already got it. Spencer digs in. 00:00:31 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:00:32 Speaker 1: On ginseng poachers. 00:00:34 Speaker 4: Good one, Steve. 00:00:36 Speaker 1: An interesting legal argument about elk tags has emerged in New Mexico. Randall and I signed our first doctor's note getting a kid out of school and more. Okay, I'm going to skip our news because what I was going to talk about in our news. No, I'm just going to talk about it right now. Phil, play the thing. This is a dumb one. This is a dumb one, but hear me out. The reason it's our news is because the other day I was driving down the road with my friend Jeremy Romero. And he brought up an issue that he found a solution toward. This is an issue that's always chapped my buns. And he found a solution for it. But I've got to give a little background. First off, Jeremy's from New Mexico. In New Mexico, they do not do a thing called bonus points. So just to step this back for a minute, if you imagine... You know, most of the country, like if you want to go deer hunting, you go to the gas station or the sporting goods store and you like buy a deer tag. There's no limit on how many deer tags are available. Anybody that wants one can get one. But when you get into certain things where you have more certain areas and certain wildlife species where you have more demand than supply, you need to create a system by which you award hunts, right? Like if everyone that wants to go hunt a bighorn in Montana went and shot a bighorn, They'd all be gone and we'd be in the hole a million bighorns. You got to have a system by which you hand these opportunities out. There's these things called tag draws. Let's say you live in... I don't know. 00:02:19 Speaker 3: You live in. 00:02:20 Speaker 1: Nevada? Wyoming. Arizona. 00:02:22 Speaker 4: Wyoming. 00:02:23 Speaker 1: You live in Wyoming. You want to hunt in Wyoming. Alaska? You want to hunt in Wyoming and in Wyoming they say, hey, there's 100 elk tags for this mountain range. and a couple thousand guys put in for them. So most of those people, let's just keep the numbers simple. There's a single tag available for a mountain range in Wyoming, one tag. 100 guys want it. 99 of those guys, they come up empty-handed. So what the state does to reward them, at least for their efforts, is they give them a thing called a bonus point. So then the next year, keeping it as simple as possible. The next year, those previous 99 guys, now their name is in the hat two times, right? This is how this whole preference bonus point thing generally works. What can happen to a fellow is you can play the game for so long. I've played this game for a very, very long time that you wind up with enormous amounts of bonus points. So you get where you have like, I have some, for some draws, I have 20 bonus points. And so you want to get the best, most premium hunt you can get because you've got so much invested in all these damn points. And now and then it'll happen that you realize you could go hunt elk in some other mountain range. And if you have five points, you're gonna draw it. It makes sense, you guys already know all this. But you'd be like, it only takes five bonus points to win that out permit. And then you wind up being like, well, I'm not going to do that because I have 20 bonus points. I'd be like, in your mind, psychologically, you're thinking, I'd be wasting. 00:04:08 Speaker 4: All this. 00:04:08 Speaker 5: So you want to keep your 15. 00:04:10 Speaker 1: And so you don't do shit. You don't do anything because you'd look at it like money. 00:04:15 Speaker 3: Some cost fallacy. 00:04:17 Speaker 1: But here's Romero's, the Romero proposal. He thinks states... If you work at a state wildlife agency, hear me out. He thinks it should be... Your bonus points should be like poker chips. When you're playing poker, you don't always take all your chips and slide them out. 00:04:38 Speaker 5: It seems to me like this... I'm not done laying the proposal out. I think I know where it's going. 00:04:43 Speaker 1: We'll just have a little patience. Instead of you needing to be, it's binary. It's like all your chips are in or none of your chips are in. He feels you should be able to have 20 bonus points. He feels you should be able to slide five out and make a bet. 00:05:05 Speaker 5: This seems like it'd be a very popular idea among people with 20 bonus points. 00:05:09 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:05:11 Speaker 1: That's why I'm talking about this. 00:05:13 Speaker 5: More and more premium opportunities go to fewer and fewer people. 00:05:16 Speaker 4: Yeah, what would this solve for? 00:05:17 Speaker 1: It would solve for a problem I'm having right now. Where? I'm eyeballing where I have a thing. It actually is Wyoming. I have a giant pile of poker chips. But there's a thing I want to go do that I would be effectively for once i have to slide all my poker chips in on a small bet and and like i'm so picture that the state is my opponent i'm sliding 20 out and he's like i'll put out five Do you follow me? 00:06:03 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:06:04 Speaker 1: It's called the Romero poll. 00:06:06 Speaker 4: So Jeremy came up with this just for you. And this is how you. 00:06:08 Speaker 5: Solve point creep. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: He plays the game. He plays the game. And he's like, this is what's chapping my buns. Like mine, our buns are chapped by the same thing. We want to be able to play a couple chips. 00:06:23 Speaker 5: Would it change your opinion on this if I told you that this would make things exponentially worse for your kids? 00:06:29 Speaker 1: No. 00:06:29 Speaker 4: I'm not sure that it would. 00:06:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would. 00:06:34 Speaker 4: I think we need a statistician in here to tell us if it actually would make it harder. 00:06:39 Speaker 5: It would definitely. I mean, I shouldn't say exponentially. 00:06:42 Speaker 1: Yes, because I'd draw that tag, and I'm still sitting on 15 points. Yeah, so he'd draw four premium tags in the next four years. If I like that hunt the next year, five more chips. 00:06:55 Speaker 5: Four points are never going to get, you know, like. 00:06:57 Speaker 3: If you look, I think you, the question could be answered by how many points are people dying with? Because that'd be the only way to like, like that would be the delta. 00:07:05 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where'd all those points go when you die? 00:07:07 Speaker 2: I don't know. 00:07:08 Speaker 3: We need a statistician to write in. 00:07:10 Speaker 1: In a little grave? 00:07:11 Speaker 5: I don't think we need a statistician to write info. 00:07:14 Speaker 1: I'm going to die with so many points. They're going to have to put a grave next to my grave to hold all my points. It's like, I'm going to have a headstone, and next to it is going to be his points. 00:07:24 Speaker 3: That could be etched into your kids. 00:07:27 Speaker 1: And family and stuff. 00:07:28 Speaker 5: I sort of see that as. 00:07:30 Speaker 3: How many points you died with. 00:07:32 Speaker 1: Instead of what year you died and were born and all that, it'll just be the points you've accumulated that you took to the grave. 00:07:39 Speaker 3: We'll get Brianna on that. 00:07:40 Speaker 2: And to be clear, while 20 points is a lot, there's a lot of Steves and Jermys out there who have 20 points to use somewhere. 00:07:47 Speaker 1: And we want to find a way to hoard even more. Yeah. We want to have our cake, and then we want to be able to eat it too. 00:07:54 Speaker 5: And a little bit of your cake. 00:07:56 Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind. Matter of fact, I'm just going to have some of your cake, I think. 00:08:02 Speaker 4: That's clever. 00:08:04 Speaker 1: The Romero proposal. I wish you guys hadn't shot it down, because I feel like I had a lot of state directors excited about implementing this, and then you guys started shooting holes in it. 00:08:13 Speaker 4: I had a, I don't know if it's quite at proposal stage yet, but I had an idea to help, you know how we're discussing what the proper age is for youth hunting, or like to be a mentored hunter? 00:08:27 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:08:28 Speaker 4: Because I was noticing that with my kids... the weight of the gun gets very heavy after a while. And I was thinking, well, I wonder if that could be a solid threshold because we also have this three-year-old that supposedly wielded a 12-gauge and thought it was shooting at a turkey, right? Well, the person should be able to display the ability to carry and handle said weapon. 00:09:00 Speaker 1: Man yanni's gonna have the ada yeah compliance people after him bad yeah i can't even imagine the mean things he's gonna be hearing about himself. 00:09:10 Speaker 4: Okay well just an idea it was not yet at the proposal stage to be clear. 00:09:13 Speaker 1: Yeah just an idea someone you know writing into their little boys got like only one arm something they're gonna be mad at yanni he needs a pistol brace well. 00:09:23 Speaker 4: There's there's always exceptions you know You get a special permit for that. 00:09:27 Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. So, yeah, you got to be like, hey, when you can carry that thing three miles up and down, come talk to me about hunting. Your news, Phil. 00:09:41 Speaker 3: That's right. 00:09:42 Speaker 1: Your news brought to you by Banish Suppressors. Holding my hot little hand. And we just, I didn't want to talk about this, but I nixed it. We just did the youth hunt. 00:09:50 Speaker 2: A lot of quiet rifle. 00:09:51 Speaker 1: Fire in that youth camp. 00:09:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think I heard heard another shot. 00:09:57 Speaker 1: In the old days you'd be like oh there's yanni ripping or yanni's kids are ripping but now you don't know nothing you gotta wait till you get back to camp because everybody shoots suppressed yeah everybody comes. 00:10:07 Speaker 4: Back no when you hear gunshots it's usually a volley and i think it's usually upland bird hunters. 00:10:15 Speaker 1: Um Here's what we're going to do. We got to, so one day it occurred to us. No, a guy wrote in, I think. 00:10:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:10:21 Speaker 1: Saying, well, you guys are doctors. Randall's a doctor. I have an honorary doctorate. Which is doctor. 00:10:28 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:10:28 Speaker 1: Which, you know, let's just cut the, just shorten that up. You know, abbreviate that to doctor. A guy wrote in, he's wondering if we could write him a doctor's note. 00:10:39 Speaker 3: Yeah. Episode 930, he wrote in. Uh, Steve said he'd happily give him a doctor's note or anyone else who needs time off for school or work. So a bunch of folks wrote in. Um, I was gone for a while, so we missed a bunch. I'm sorry for that. Hopefully you worked out with your boss. 00:10:53 Speaker 1: Nate had a baby. 00:10:54 Speaker 3: His wife had a baby. Yeah. Um, here's one from Jacob Flora. 00:10:59 Speaker 5: Okay. 00:11:01 Speaker 3: Steven Randall, you want to read his situation? Well, I'll read it and then you diagnose. 00:11:05 Speaker 1: Well, I like how he spelled my name off right off the bat. 00:11:07 Speaker 3: He spelled a lot of things. Interestingly, he said he spells everything wrong. Dear Mr. Rennell. On the most recent episode of the news show, you guys were talking about being open to writing doctor's notes for absences from school. Well, my school only allows five absences a year without a doctor's note. This season, I'm supposed to go on a black bear hunt in West Virginia, but I would still like to hunt the Ohio rut. I was wondering if you and Dr. Randall would be willing to sign one for me. 00:11:33 Speaker 5: It's a mistake many have made. 00:11:35 Speaker 3: The dates would be November 2nd to 5th. Thanks. 00:11:37 Speaker 1: No problem. So I'm sitting here on our new form. 00:11:40 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 00:11:42 Speaker 1: Steve Rinella, honorary D, and Randall Williams, PhD, meat eater, occupational health. To whom it may concern, this letter is to certify that. What's this kid's name? 00:11:55 Speaker 2: Spell it wrong. 00:11:56 Speaker 3: Jacob Flora. 00:11:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to do him dirty just back again. Oh, this is the pen you gave me? 00:12:02 Speaker 4: Oh, no. 00:12:03 Speaker 3: Oh, it's got a cap on it. 00:12:04 Speaker 1: It isn't like a pen. 00:12:05 Speaker 3: It's new. That's brand fresh new pen. You know how they do that? 00:12:09 Speaker 1: No, I've never seen that before. 00:12:11 Speaker 3: When they're signing something fancy. 00:12:12 Speaker 1: His nose is going to look like shit. 00:12:15 Speaker 5: According to AI, simply lying about being a doctor in casual everyday conversation is not a crime. However, the moment an impersonation crosses into advertising services diagnosing illnesses. 00:12:29 Speaker 3: It's very clear on this form. 00:12:31 Speaker 1: This letter is to certify that Jacob Flora was obsessed by our offices on... What's today's date? 00:12:40 Speaker 3: 21st of October. 00:12:40 Speaker 1: 10, 21, 26. Diagnosis. Cervid fixation syndrome. 00:12:51 Speaker 3: Acute. 00:12:53 Speaker 1: Barometric sensitivity pre-funnel. 00:12:56 Speaker 4: Are you checking these or are you just reading them off? 00:12:58 Speaker 1: No, I'm just trying to think. Photo period related loss of indoor tolerance. 00:13:02 Speaker 2: What did that last one mean? 00:13:04 Speaker 1: Barometric. The barometers. 00:13:06 Speaker 2: Just good weather? 00:13:06 Speaker 1: He knows there's good fishing weather coming up. Okay. Cold water onset fever. Dietary wild protein deficiency. Unsuccessful prior season unresolved. Pre-seasonal hyperarousal. Seasonal migratory restlessness. Salmonid emergence response. Adverse weather waterfowl dependency. Fluorescent light intolerance occupational. Under harvest chronic. Stage three. Oh, that's tough. What would this guy? 00:13:43 Speaker 3: I think he's got cervid fixation. 00:13:46 Speaker 1: Pre-seasonal hyper arousal. 00:13:48 Speaker 5: Can we fill in some sort of split personality thing? 00:13:52 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's got a couple. 00:13:53 Speaker 1: There's no other on here. 00:13:54 Speaker 4: He could certainly have multiple diagnoses. 00:13:59 Speaker 1: But I think pre-seasonal, because this is all coming up, pre-seasonal hyper-arousal. 00:14:05 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:14:05 Speaker 3: Clearly. 00:14:06 Speaker 4: Well, photoperiod-related loss of indoor tolerance certainly. 00:14:09 Speaker 1: He's got some of that. I'm going to put him in there, and he's got a little trace of that pre-seasonal hyper-arousal. You good with that? That gives him two things. Yeah, I concur. 00:14:18 Speaker 4: I like his dates. He needs to be excused from school. I like his dates that he's picking. 00:14:21 Speaker 1: He needs to be excused from school for the period of. 00:14:24 Speaker 3: Second to the fifth. 00:14:25 Speaker 1: November 2 to 5. 00:14:28 Speaker 4: And, man, now you can see the long-range forecast. It looks like November 2 through 5 in the Midwest is going to be pretty good. 00:14:35 Speaker 1: This guy right here, honorary doctorate of forestry and conservation. I'll sign that. And then a Randall doctorate of history. I don't think he's going to be having any problems down there at the schoolhouse. No. 00:14:46 Speaker 3: Nope. 00:14:47 Speaker 5: You should also tell your school. 00:14:49 Speaker 1: Listen, man, I'll tell you. Listen to me, Jacob. Whatever class is spelling, do they still have... If they got spelling class, you might want to visit them on lunch break a couple times. 00:15:00 Speaker 5: I would tell your school that this seems like an unusually conservative absence policy. And had we had such a policy in my... school growing up, I never would have graduated. 00:15:14 Speaker 1: That's a strict school, man. You'd think a school that strict, that kid would be spelling like a madman, don't you? I mean, he does spell it. He would be spelling like a... You know what I'm trying to do. Oh, check this out. Let's hit the news, Phil. 00:15:27 Speaker 7: Oh, yeah. 00:15:28 Speaker 1: There you go. So you know how we have Meat Eaters Land Access Initiative? Well, Trump stole that idea. 00:15:36 Speaker 4: Son of a gun. 00:15:37 Speaker 1: Some people are mad about Iran. Some people are mad about diesel prices. Some people are mad about Kimberly Guilfoyle. Some people are mad about peddling influence. I'm mad that he stole our LAI idea. In all seriousness, we recently covered Trump's executive orders on hunting and fishing. And here is where one of those, this is an interesting email floating around, where one of those is where the rubber, you know, the old term, where the rubber has met the road. In that analogy, the rubber would be Scrap that analogy. Okay. Here's a first little emergence of public emergence of those executive orders coming into play. And check this out. So this is an email floating around. Someone forwarded it to me. The email reads, In September, President Trump signed Executive Order 14429, titled, Reinvigorating America's Hunting Heritage. directing federal land management agencies to, quote, improve public access to difficult-to-access federal lands and waters by prioritizing practical access opportunities. So, the letter goes on to explain. I'm jumping between paraphrasing and reading. In line with this, the Bureau of Land Management is currently seeking land and water conservation fund acquisition projects. including easements that open up Dingle Act-nominated lands and other landlocked public parcels to more hunting and fishing opportunities. I'm going to step away from the reading and just explain this from this point forward. This letter is going out to folks like us, folks like you, seeking out Parcels that you're aware of, landlocked parcels or difficult to access parcels you're aware of, where you might have identified, and they point out this has to be the case, where you may have identified a willing seller. So let's say there's a lake, there's no public access on the lake, right? Or let's say there's a chunk of state land, there's no way to get on it without trespassing. It's asking people, if you know a willing seller, a property owner, who might be interested in an easement, or who might be interested in an outside sale, they are actively looking for those opportunities to take land and water access fund money, which comes from offshore oil leases, to take that money and secure those parcels to open up access. We've solicited these, when I joked about them stealing our idea, we've solicited these We've looked for these tips before. We're not the only ones. Us, other organizations, have looked for tips like this before. Like, hey, if you ever find some little 40-acre chunk or a 10-acre chunk or a 5-acre chunk, that if it was turned into an access point, an easement, it would get you onto a lake. It would get you onto a river. It would get you onto public land. Let us know because we raise funds and have funds that could help purchase those parcels. But here, the administration, through the BLM, is actively seeking out these chunks of land. So if you have one of these spots... What's new about this? That they're actively soliciting it. 00:19:22 Speaker 5: But the Dingell Act is 2019. 00:19:27 Speaker 1: I'm aware. 00:19:28 Speaker 5: And that's part of the Dingell Act. 00:19:29 Speaker 4: I know. 00:19:30 Speaker 5: It's the act of solicitation. 00:19:32 Speaker 1: But the executive order points out to prioritize it. And upon that executive order, here is emails going out. 00:19:41 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:19:42 Speaker 1: Actively hunting for such opportunities. Part of the thing we brought up when the, part of the thing we brought up when the executive orders came out is the, a lot of the stuff sounds great but what do you do right you know with language like prioritize right or you know consider prioritize so one might ask well what does all that really mean in the end to prioritize or consider so it's an ongoing thing but it's just I found it interesting and that there's active solicitation to the public trying to hunt down opportunities. These kind of things have always happened. It's not like there's this new mechanism, but it's saying we have direction to get serious about this. Do you have potential opportunities in mind? But in keeping, like all through that executive order was a lot of stuff like no big government, no big government. So it's funny is in this, there's this flyer. In this flyer, it says, if they are not a willing seller, it basically says, if the person you're looking at is not a willing seller, stop now, leave them alone. It's like in all caps. 00:20:53 Speaker 3: It's like a. 00:20:56 Speaker 1: Trump true social post where he uses all caps. It says, find a landowner, step two. Find a landowner that is willing to sell BLM, Bureau of Land Management, legal rights for public access. This is direction to the public. If the landowner is not willing to sell land and or water or interest therein, then all uppercase stop. The BLM cannot proceed without a willing seller. 00:21:26 Speaker 5: It makes it look like an acronym because every other all caps in this is BLM. 00:21:31 Speaker 1: It's an acronym. L-W-C-F. S-T-O-P. 00:21:35 Speaker 6: No. 00:21:36 Speaker 1: Steve tops out. 00:21:41 Speaker 2: Besant. 00:21:41 Speaker 1: Pipe. 00:21:45 Speaker 3: I'll call the merch. 00:21:45 Speaker 1: I don't do that. 00:21:46 Speaker 3: Merch people now. 00:21:51 Speaker 1: So there it is. Dig in, man. Here's your, you know, here's your call to action. Find those parcels. You don't even need to tell us about them. Tell damn government about them. 00:22:02 Speaker 2: Are other agencies besides BLM in on this? 00:22:05 Speaker 1: I don't know. This is just the only one I've seen where it's like floating around, where they're like taking an active step to seek this out and also to educate people about this being a thing. 00:22:16 Speaker 3: We want to throw out the contact that they have on here? 00:22:18 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:22:19 Speaker 1: Yeah. Because maybe you own the spot. 00:22:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:22:22 Speaker 1: Maybe you own a spot that you're like. And you're willing to sell. And you're willing to sell. Because if you're not, listen, I'm not here to pressure you. I know when to stop. 00:22:31 Speaker 5: It's also not, it's not just sales. 00:22:32 Speaker 1: Who do they reach out to? 00:22:33 Speaker 5: It's access, not to like oversimplify it, but like access easements. 00:22:37 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:22:37 Speaker 3: Robert Wandel, Wandel, R Wandel at BLM.gov. 00:22:43 Speaker 1: He's the public land access program manager and LWCF lead. R W A N D E L at BLM.gov. Over to you, Spencer. 00:22:57 Speaker 2: The National Park Service announced a few weeks ago that rangers in Great Smoky Mountains National Park confiscated 700 ginseng roots from two poachers. We've got a picture there of the stack of roots that they took. They piled them up like how you'd see some officers show you the incredible drug busts that they had, where it's just like an overwhelming mountain of roots. 00:23:23 Speaker 1: For you people that aren't watching and are only listening, If this wasn't, this looks remarkably similar to the crown of thorns. 00:23:34 Speaker 3: What's that creature in Harry Potter? 00:23:36 Speaker 1: Sorry? 00:23:37 Speaker 4: Mandrake? 00:23:37 Speaker 3: Yep, that's what I was thinking. Thanks, Bill. 00:23:40 Speaker 2: The roots of ginseng, which are sometimes referred to as green gold, currently sells for about $ 800 per pound, and it takes about 200 roots to make a pound. So these poachers had roughly $ 3, 000 worth of ginseng Most of it was likely headed overseas. Officials estimate that 85% of North America's ginseng harvest goes to Asian markets. China is specifically the world's leading consumer of the plant. They use it in teas, soups, alcohol, cosmetics, supplements, and more. The list of supposed benefits include increased energy, immunity support, heating and cooling effects, sharpened focus, lowered blood sugar, reduced inflammation, and... It's supposed to solve erectile dysfunction. Here is a picture of one of these pills. 00:24:30 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, the man root. Ginseng Power X. 00:24:33 Speaker 2: This is the ginseng male enhancement pill that the FDA put out a PSA for in 2016, advising Americans, do not buy this. It's a giant yellow pill that the label says is, quote, for your ultimate sexual pleasure, powerful libido, natural vigor, and effective enhancement. And then here's the really alarming one. Lasting five days, it says. 00:24:58 Speaker 5: Wow. 00:24:59 Speaker 1: Have you ever tried it? 00:25:00 Speaker 4: Has anybody here tried it? 00:25:02 Speaker 2: I've not tried it. But in high school, you know, we'd buy horny goat weed from the gas station bathroom that they would sell in the thing there. It didn't seem to have any effect on, you know, like a thriving 17-year-old. 00:25:12 Speaker 1: But here's the thing I don't understand about this. 00:25:14 Speaker 2: Do you want to keep going? 00:25:16 Speaker 1: Can I ask you my questions? 00:25:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, go for it. I got a lot more, but we can pause. 00:25:21 Speaker 1: Let me write them. Okay, let me just wedge one in here. Yeah, please. Why would someone want to want something more than they do? If someone was selling a pill that says, this pill will make you want a nicer car. You'd be like, I'm not going to take that pill. Like, I don't want to want a nicer car. 00:25:46 Speaker 2: Maybe it's like. 00:25:47 Speaker 1: Like, why would you want to want something more? 00:25:50 Speaker 2: Maybe it's like, that's an enjoyable thing. So like, this pill will make you want to cook really good meals. 00:25:56 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:25:57 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:25:58 Speaker 2: I think I'd have that pill. 00:25:59 Speaker 1: But, yeah, that's interesting. Because if it was a pill, this pill will make you want to cook. You'd have to be like, do I wish I wanted to cook more? 00:26:08 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:26:08 Speaker 2: This will make you go to the gym and run. That's what this pill will do. I think it's, I imagine it's like that. 00:26:14 Speaker 3: Like pre-workout. 00:26:15 Speaker 1: Well, no, no. You're not, I can't explain it. 00:26:18 Speaker 2: So this is the ginseng male enhancement pill. We're looking at a picture of it right now. 00:26:21 Speaker 4: An FDA lab analysis. Do you understand what I'm saying, Randall? 00:26:23 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I understand what you're saying. 00:26:24 Speaker 1: Okay. 00:26:25 Speaker 5: I understand what you're saying. 00:26:25 Speaker 2: You're, you're, It's a pretty strong market, though. 00:26:29 Speaker 1: It is, but I don't understand why... I'll say it one more time, the same way I said it before. I don't understand wanting to want something more. 00:26:39 Speaker 4: Where are you getting that from that label? 00:26:43 Speaker 1: I think. 00:26:44 Speaker 2: He's saying you don't want to have sex. Why would you take a pill that makes you want to have sex? 00:26:50 Speaker 1: It's like to have a powerful.... 00:26:53 Speaker 5: Maybe it's causing an issue in your personal life. 00:26:56 Speaker 2: Maybe your wife wants to buy a new car. 00:26:58 Speaker 3: Because I just. 00:26:58 Speaker 5: Can't picture your wife is going to leave you if you don't buy a new car. 00:27:03 Speaker 1: I wish I chased my wife around the house even more. 00:27:08 Speaker 5: Your wife is going to have someone else buy a new car for her. 00:27:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, your current car just ain't cutting it. 00:27:15 Speaker 1: You know what I wish? 00:27:17 Speaker 3: Anyways, now the FDA. 00:27:18 Speaker 2: They did a lab analysis on this pill and they said structurally very similar to Viagra So that's like a minor endorsement But it also contained a pile of undeclared ingredients that can lower blood pressure to dangerous levels. So don't don't eat that pill Insane power acts now this relationship between North American ginseng pickers and Asian consumers is an old one frontiersmen such as Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett both supplemented their income with ginseng harvest and with their route boarding ships that were bound for China. One Daniel Boone story tells of the time that he was headed up the Ohio River with 12 large barrels of ginseng. It said that he hired Sangers, which are ginseng diggers, to gather a large supply for him, which he then planned to sell to merchant ships in Philadelphia. But disaster struck near Point Pleasant, West Virginia, when his boat capsized. Boone did manage to recover most of his roots, but they were no longer dry. And because of the water damage, he only received about half of the market value for them. The location for where that happened is somewhat disputed, but some say it was on, it. 00:28:28 Speaker 1: Was that point. 00:28:29 Speaker 5: The Mothman might've had something to do with it. 00:28:31 Speaker 1: Maybe. 00:28:33 Speaker 2: Steve has a question he wrote down. 00:28:34 Speaker 3: Do you want to? 00:28:35 Speaker 2: You wanna ask it? 00:28:36 Speaker 1: This is for later. 00:28:36 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:28:37 Speaker 1: I don't wanna derail you. 00:28:38 Speaker 2: Ginseng is of course native to North America with its historic range being basically everything east of the Mississippi River. Where it really thrives is in the Ozarks and Appalachian regions. Those dense forests have the perfect ginseng growing conditions with mild temps and above average rainfall. Now, the reason that it's so valuable is because of its scarcity. And it's so scarce because it takes about 10 years for a ginseng plant to reach maturity. and they can live to be 75 years old. Their greatest threats are poachers, habitat loss, invasive species, climate change, and get this one, white-tailed deer. Ginseng leaves are a preferred food source among white-tails, and because deer populations in the east are about twice the size they were pre-European contact, white-tails require more food than ever, so they get some of the blame for disappearing ginseng populations. Now back to our Great Smoky Mountains poachers. This sort of headline is surprisingly common there, and it's not just a matter of the National Park Service being overly protective. Just in the state of North Carolina, this year alone, officers have charged 71 people for illegal ginseng harvest, leading to more than 6,400 plant seizures. Residents are allowed to pick it, but just like game and fish, it is heavily regulated. You can only harvest ginseng from September 1 to December 31. making their ginseng season shorter than their deer season. As for those- Is there a daily bag limit? I didn't see one on that. Their rules, it's basically like, you can only pick between here and here. You have to have landowner written permission. And then it seems like everything else is a suggestion. It's like, don't take it from plants that are immature. Don't take it from this kind of landscape. So I didn't see anything about a daily limit. I'm getting to the end here. As for those confiscated roots, rangers will attempt to replant them It's estimated that about one third of them will survive. No news yet on what specific charges or penalties the Great Smoky Mountain ginseng poachers will face. What do you got, Steve? 00:30:41 Speaker 1: Who exactly are they selling these to? Did they release that? 00:30:44 Speaker 2: No, they haven't even said the names of these folks. This news out of the Great Smoky Mountains was from September 30th. They haven't even said what charges they'll face yet. So it's not clear to me what the market is to get it from Some, you know, blue jean shorts wearing fella in Great Smoky Mountains to the Chinese market. 00:31:04 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:31:04 Speaker 1: Well, I have an idea. First, I want to clarify. This is embarrassing to say. I have never looked down on the ground in all my life and said, oh, there's a ginseng plant. 00:31:18 Speaker 2: We lived in the wrong areas. 00:31:19 Speaker 5: I know. 00:31:20 Speaker 1: Yeah. But I've hung out all over. I've never been with a buddy of mine like a Kevin Murphy type who damn sure knows ginseng. 00:31:27 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:31:27 Speaker 1: He's never said, oh, hey, look. 00:31:29 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 00:31:30 Speaker 1: So on my life's to-do list, I'm like a travel for this. 00:31:33 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:31:34 Speaker 1: I would like someone to someday go, hey, that's a ginseng plant. 00:31:39 Speaker 2: I'm with you. 00:31:39 Speaker 4: It's a real blind spot for me. That might point to his rarity. 00:31:42 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 00:31:43 Speaker 1: Now, if you, like in trapper magazines. Okay. When you get to the back of a Trapper magazine, there's always a lot of ads. Often, you will see ginseng buyers. 00:31:52 Speaker 2: Really? 00:31:53 Speaker 1: But what I'm guessing is. 00:31:54 Speaker 2: I think you answered your question. 00:31:55 Speaker 1: These poachers... Well, I'm saying it's probably that... It's probably very seamless. It's like you collect it in a legal spot. But it's probably very simple. Once you leave. 00:32:11 Speaker 1: And you're on the road, I wonder if you're just fine. Yeah, possessions. Because you'd be like, you know, it's not that you can't have it, you can't have it from there. So when you go sell it, you just like, you know, if you're selling elk sheds, you're not going to say to the buyer like, oh, hey, and by the way, I stole those off some guy's plates. You're just gonna sell them like you sell everything. 00:32:33 Speaker 2: And while it's heavily regulated to gather them from the wild, you can legally grow these things and sell them on your own. And there is like a whole industry around that, but the value is so much less. I think it's like $ 30 a pound compared to $ 800 a pound for the roots. So just the market in general is not interesting. 00:32:50 Speaker 5: It makes you less lustful. 00:32:52 Speaker 2: It must. 00:32:54 Speaker 1: If you wish you wanted something that you don't want, but you just wish you wanted a teensy bit more, you might consider domestic ginseng. If you just wish you wanted a little teeny bit more. Here's my question for you. This is an interview question. I'm interviewing you. I love it that you do. Why do you like poaching stories? 00:33:19 Speaker 2: This one was given to me. 00:33:22 Speaker 1: But you like a poaching story. 00:33:24 Speaker 2: Well, this one hits a lot of... This one checks a lot of boxes. I think the poachers are interesting. Just generally, you like poachers. I'm interested in them. Foraging. I like foraging. I like national parks. So that's like three things that I'm like, hmm. 00:33:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a Spencer story. 00:33:41 Speaker 4: History? 00:33:42 Speaker 1: You were doing a poaching story the other day that did not involve a national park. 00:33:45 Speaker 2: No, but endangered species. I really like endangered species. I share any sensibilities it talks about. like the protection or the, the not protection in the case of poachers of endangered species. 00:33:57 Speaker 1: Do you ever think in the back of your head, you're not like thinking in the back of your head, like, man, I wish I had, speaking of wishing you had things you don't, that you're like, I wish I had the gumption to go be a poacher. 00:34:08 Speaker 2: No, I'm too nervous for it. I get, I get, I'm just too nervous to, to be that guy. 00:34:14 Speaker 1: You like everything above, you like everything on the up and up. 00:34:16 Speaker 3: Oh man. 00:34:17 Speaker 1: That was me too. 00:34:17 Speaker 5: Oh, go ahead. 00:34:18 Speaker 3: Oh, no, go ahead. 00:34:21 Speaker 4: I was going to say, I jumped a couple fences back in my day following friends, and boy, I couldn't handle it. 00:34:26 Speaker 1: It just takes all the fun out of it. 00:34:28 Speaker 2: You still lose your sleep over it. 00:34:30 Speaker 3: No. I sleep great now. 00:34:32 Speaker 1: I find the older you get, the less you like looking over your shoulder. Considering what he just said and what I said, we have a guest coming up. You should see if he wants to come and hang out. 00:34:47 Speaker 4: That sounds good. 00:34:48 Speaker 2: We should go ginseng foraging, too. I've never seen this stuff. 00:34:51 Speaker 1: I'd like to do it, and I'd like to eat some. 00:34:52 Speaker 3: We have another guest, Tiger Lady. That'd be another good one. 00:34:57 Speaker 1: You might like that, too. 00:34:58 Speaker 2: Once it gets outside in North America. 00:35:00 Speaker 3: Oh, that's true. 00:35:01 Speaker 1: The other one's very North America. 00:35:02 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:35:03 Speaker 1: You'll like it. 00:35:03 Speaker 3: Count me in. 00:35:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, I need a little bit of that. Cook it up. 00:35:09 Speaker 2: Real blind spot for me. 00:35:11 Speaker 1: Have you ever laid eyes on a plant? 00:35:13 Speaker 3: No. It's embarrassing. No. 00:35:15 Speaker 2: No, you look at the range map and it's just like, you know. 00:35:17 Speaker 1: Not our zone. Like I said, yeah. 00:35:19 Speaker 2: Everything east. 00:35:20 Speaker 1: Not our zone. Not in Florida, I noticed. 00:35:22 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 00:35:23 Speaker 1: That's my zone. Over to you, Yanni. Colorado. 00:35:27 Speaker 4: In Colorado, a group of people masquerading as hunters and anglers oppose Amendment 83, the ballot measure which aims to make hunting and fishing a constitutional right in the state. A group called Colorado Hunters and Anglers for Sensible Wildlife Conservation is spending big bucks to fight Amendment 83. The majority of the funding for the group comes from Wayne Pacelli's Center for a Humane Economy. Pacelli, am I pronouncing that right? 00:35:55 Speaker 1: Man, I don't know. 00:35:56 Speaker 4: All right, never mind. 00:35:57 Speaker 1: Sounds good. 00:35:58 Speaker 3: Pacelli. 00:35:59 Speaker 2: You say it with confidence. 00:36:00 Speaker 4: Pacelli served as president. 00:36:02 Speaker 1: I bet he's Pacelli. 00:36:03 Speaker 4: Of the HSUS. 00:36:05 Speaker 1: I can tell. I just do not like this guy, and he don't like me. 00:36:08 Speaker 3: Which is the. 00:36:10 Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys would be good for a debate. 00:36:13 Speaker 2: Long drive. 00:36:14 Speaker 4: He was the president of the Humane Society of the United States for 14 years as an outright anti-hunter. 00:36:20 Speaker 1: Can we clear up that that does not mean he likes dogs. 00:36:23 Speaker 4: That is true. 00:36:23 Speaker 1: The Humane Society is an anti-hunting organization. H-S-U-S. 00:36:28 Speaker 4: H-S-U-S. That's right. 00:36:29 Speaker 3: They raise a lot of money. 00:36:30 Speaker 4: It's not the same thing as the Humane Society in your neighborhood. 00:36:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, they raise a lot of money from people thinking they're doing a solid for dogs. But then they turn and use it for animal rights activism. 00:36:44 Speaker 2: Are they like cousins or anything, those two organizations? 00:36:46 Speaker 4: No, there's a split. 00:36:47 Speaker 1: So your local humane society shelters are no longer HSUS. 00:36:54 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:36:54 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:36:57 Speaker 4: He's an outright anti-hunter having helped ban dove hunting in Michigan. The Center for a Humane Economy was also one of the largest donors to the 2024 group Cats Aren't Trophies that tried and failed to pass Proposition 127 in Colorado, which would have banned bobcat mountain lion hunting in the state. Now, the group's main argument against Amendment 83 is that it would, under the wording Traditional Methods, allow for the reinstitution of hunting practices banned in Colorado, such as the use of steel-jawed leg-hold traps, spring bear hunting, baited bear hunting, and wildlife killing contests. This is far from the truth. To make these activities legal would require the voters to vote at a 55% threshold in favor of. 00:37:46 Speaker 1: But I wish they were... I gotta butt in. I wish they were right. 00:37:49 Speaker 4: Please do. 00:37:51 Speaker 1: If you told me that passing this amendment would provide an avenue to undo those bans, that would make me like it more. 00:38:00 Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting because when I had that long chat, I think I told you guys, I sent out that text to my family group and friends in Colorado. And then on the heels of that, I had about a 90-minute conversation with my aunt who wanted to know how I felt about 83. 00:38:14 Speaker 2: And. 00:38:18 Speaker 4: In there, we had to discuss a lot about like, I think I told you this about like what she thinks poaching is, right? I said, well, no, not what poaching is. 00:38:27 Speaker 1: Trophy hunting. 00:38:28 Speaker 4: Trophy hunting, right? And she's like, well, that's just when people just take the head and take it home, put it on the wall and just leave the meat. And I said, well, that's illegal, you know? 00:38:34 Speaker 1: You gotta get stuffed first. 00:38:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's poaching. And so then we got to talking about how she's seen that the people that are anti-83 are saying that it's gonna bring back all these other things. that she doesn't like. And so then I got into a, why don't you like hound hunting? Why don't you like spring bear hunting? And then, so I had to go through and explain that actually when you're, or let's say beta bear hunting, it's a better way to preserve more cubs lives. Cause the, the anti say that beta bear hunting and in the spring, when you, you're going to end up killing mom and you have orphaned cubs that then just, you know, famished. Um, because you can watch these animals. You can see if it's a sow or if it's a boar, you can see if there's cubs or not, et cetera. Same thing with hunting bears with dogs, right? They're in a tree. You can assess the situation. You don't have to make a... So, anyways, a lot of misinformation, a lot of propaganda out there. 00:39:31 Speaker 1: But I need now, before you proceed, I need to now clarify. But it is correct. 00:39:39 Speaker 3: It is. 00:39:41 Speaker 1: Passing 83 does not undo any of these ballot initiatives. I'm just pointing out that I wish it did, but it's an empty wish because there's no legal avenue for it to undo that. 00:39:54 Speaker 3: No. 00:39:56 Speaker 4: Interestingly, though, there is a legal avenue to undo all those things. But because it's so implausible that it would pass, no one has tried to do it. But right now, if we wanted to start a group that would try to push for the re-legalization of spring bear hunting in Colorado, there is a process to do it. And then you'd have to get the voters to vote for it. But people don't see that as a plausible outcome, so no one has tried it. 83 would not make that any easier or change any of that. You'd still have to go through the exact same process if you want to try to... re-legalize these things. Let's see. So the use of the term traditional methods, which is what the people against 83 are saying is the big problem. That wording is in the amendment to preserve the methods that are currently available to hunters and anglers and to prevent further erosion of opportunities. The wording traditional methods has been used in 14 other states with constitutional rights to hunt and fish. Um, I've said it before. It won't be long until they say it's not ethical to have your lab flush a pheasant. Right now they take away, um, spring bear hunting. They will come for your pheasant flushing lab. 00:41:17 Speaker 1: Um, but there's been, there's been bills proposed in the past that would remove dogs from that, that using dogs for hunting is unethical. 00:41:25 Speaker 4: For upland birds? 00:41:26 Speaker 1: I mean, it's been pitched. It hasn't been passed anywhere. But there's been attempts to just bucket all dog activities. 00:41:31 Speaker 4: They've been proposed? 00:41:32 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:41:32 Speaker 4: Okay. I hadn't seen that. So I'll leave you with this. Ask yourself, why would a group with hunters and anglers in their name take funds from one of the largest anti-hunting organizations in the country? 00:41:52 Speaker 1: There is a dude, you'll see his name pop up in a lot of this. They kind of have this, they have like a stooge who has a hunting, fishing background. And you'll often see this guy, his last name is Washburn. He's attached to this. He was attached to the cats aren't trophies thing. And he's this guy that runs around being like, oh, no, no, hunting means all this. He's real important to me. But he somehow, over the decades, has become a animal rights activist and anti-hunter, but he still kind of carries the torch as a hunter. He still likes to identify as a hunter to give his perspective some merit. So Washburn is in bed with these people. What's problematic about this individual is you'll often see, this is where it's personal for me, you'll often see that he'll be identified as one of the founders of Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. Now, apparently, he clarifies at times, he clarifies that's not true, other people do that. But this guy, TRCP was founded by a guy named Jim Range. That's the founder of TRCP. When you see this dude described as some kind of 20-year-ago founder at TRCP, he most certainly was not. 00:43:24 Speaker 2: What is his connection? Anything? 00:43:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a connection set on the board at a time. But when people talk about the founder of TRCP, the founder of TRCP is a man named Jim Range. It is not a split. There's not like, oh, and other people. It's Jim Range. Whatever his adjacency was to Range, I've been with that organization as a board member for a great many years, and I've been there. I have listened to a hundred stories about the founding of TRCP and Jim Range, and this cat's name has never come up in any of those things. He somehow has drifted to the point where he aligns himself with these active anti-hunting orgs. And one of his things to say is, like, one of his gripes with Amendment 83 is it says that it applies the word management technique to certain wildlife species. And he's pointing out, well, maybe it's not best to manage them through hunting. Meaning, like, you shouldn't be able to hunt bears. You shouldn't be able to do this. You shouldn't be able to do that. And so that's his gripe. But he often tries to establish, like, some teensy level of hunting bona fides that he doesn't have. This dude is in bed with. 00:44:46 Speaker 1: The animal rights movement. Same thing with this cat. We used to report on a lot. Samantha Miller, you know, I'm a hunter. It's like kind of now and then under very, very specific sets of circumstances in order that you can go to these meetings and say that if. 00:45:02 Speaker 5: You were an animal rights person and you wanted to boost your profile and gain a lot of credibility and like shape your professional trajectory upwards the best thing you could do is go out there and shoot a duck yeah or a pheasant one and then and then build yourself as a hunter yeah. 00:45:18 Speaker 1: I think that they like to do that pheasant move because it's kind of like they're like well it's not native it probably is brought up in a box yeah you know you do that like and then all of a sudden you're like hey i'm a hunter yeah you like you go get a pheasant some guy let go out of a box And then you tell your wife, like, your wife's like, I can't believe you did that. They're like, well, it's kind of like a chicken. I mean, it was raised in a box. 00:45:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, so Colorado. 00:45:45 Speaker 1: If you're in Colorado, don't be fooled by that crap. 00:45:47 Speaker 5: And get out there and vote. 00:45:48 Speaker 4: Yeah, Colorado hunters and anglers for sensible wildlife conservation. Be very skeptical of what you see from them. 00:45:56 Speaker 1: Just think about it like this. Why would a group of Colorado hunters and anglers oppose. 00:46:04 Speaker 1: Codifying the right to hunt and fish in Colorado. I was going to make some analogies, but I don't think you need one. 00:46:17 Speaker 2: This is from Eric. 00:46:17 Speaker 1: They'd be like weed smokers against legalizing weed, which I could see because you like hiding in the bushes. You like hiding in the bushes and stuff like that. Yeah, I could see that. 00:46:29 Speaker 2: This is from Eric's bio on ColoradoHuntersAndAnglers.com. 00:46:34 Speaker 1: Does he say founder? 00:46:35 Speaker 2: He co-founded and led the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. That's the second sentence of his bio. 00:46:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay. So we know where that comes from. Apparently, he's trying to create a little distance between himself and that descriptor. 00:46:52 Speaker 4: If you want the real dope, go to SaveTheHuntColorado.com. All right. 00:47:01 Speaker 1: New Mexico outfitter tags over to Yanni. And then we're going to get into Nantucket deer. Do we want to go out of order to make it like west, east, west, east? 00:47:09 Speaker 4: Randall, why don't you take New Mexico outfitter tags? 00:47:11 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:47:12 Speaker 3: Sorry. Oh, yeah. Oh. 00:47:15 Speaker 1: Oh, you're done. You did your story. 00:47:17 Speaker 5: Johnny's done. 00:47:18 Speaker 1: Over and out. I want to go out of order. Because New Mexico and Colorado, you know how they touch each other? I want to jump over to Nantucket. 00:47:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:47:27 Speaker 1: And I reminded Nate of that famous limerick. There was a man from Nantucket. Go ahead, Nate. 00:47:33 Speaker 3: Mansions falling into the seas. Alpha gal syndrome spreading like wildfire. Native plants on the edge of extinction. What's the common denominator? Whitetail deer running rampant in Nantucket. Got it. Did you write that? I did. 00:47:52 Speaker 1: That's great. 00:47:53 Speaker 3: And now, you can get paid $ 150 for every whitetail deer you kill and donate on one of the ritziest islands in America. 00:48:03 Speaker 1: This is incredible. 00:48:04 Speaker 2: I always got to pay to do that. 00:48:05 Speaker 1: I know. Now you can be like Daniel Boone. Now I'm not talking about digging ginseng. Commercial deer hunter. 00:48:12 Speaker 3: There are many nuances to this. We will try to hit all of them. This story, James Smith from the email inbox wrote in to alert us. And a few things, there's a lot of elements. So to keep in mind, I just kind of want to bracket this. First off, the Nantucket deer problem is nuts. It's a 48-mile square mile island with more than 125 deer per square mile. 00:48:36 Speaker 1: That is unbelievable. 00:48:38 Speaker 3: Whoa. 00:48:38 Speaker 1: Can I get just some perspective? 30 is a lot. 00:48:41 Speaker 3: 30 is a lot. Most land managers, like 20. Most land managers would be like, 20? 00:48:46 Speaker 1: 30 is like, damn. 00:48:49 Speaker 4: And is that 125 deer for every one of those 48 square miles? 00:48:53 Speaker 3: Some go up to 150. And there's like, there's the suburban thing. There's like, it's, there are, you can think of it, there are a ton of deer. 00:49:03 Speaker 1: There's tons of concern. Many tons of deer. 00:49:04 Speaker 3: Many tons of deer. Thank you. Tons of concern over alpha gal, lime, and also environmental degradation, not just like, you know, begonias or whatever. The second thing is, This island is developing a holistic approach encompassing Massachusetts wildlife, local nonprofits, landowners, alternative funding programs. They've all banded together to provide cash incentives for venison donations, unlimited antlerless tags, earn many more buck tags, private land access. 00:49:37 Speaker 1: Earn a bunch of bucks. 00:49:38 Speaker 3: Earn a bunch of bucks. And other hunter incentives. Finally, the thing to keep in mind is it's actually increasing deer harvest. The venison stays on the island and feeds the local population. And wealthy non-hunters that come to Nantuck in the summer are increasingly supportive of these hunters. And in this situation, there's natural barriers that can curb the concern about market hunting, which is kind of top of mind for all of us. So for anyone who lives probably not in Massachusetts, you're asking, what is Nantucket? It's, as I mentioned, a 48 square mile island, about 30 miles off the Massachusetts coast. Phil's got a picture he's going to run for us real quick. Just a Google Maps screenshot. You can see in that job, Phil. They're in the Atlantic. 00:50:26 Speaker 1: You notice Phil's hovering his cursor. 00:50:28 Speaker 4: What a guy. 00:50:29 Speaker 1: Over the area of interest. 00:50:30 Speaker 3: Technology these days. You can see Philly down in the bottom left. 00:50:34 Speaker 1: That's the hardest Phil's worked all week, hovering that cursor over that. 00:50:37 Speaker 4: That was rude. 00:50:39 Speaker 1: He's breaking a sweat. 00:50:41 Speaker 3: Maine's up there in the top right. You can see Lake Ontario top left and then Nantucket in the bottom right. Approximately 50% of that island is protected open space. The other 50% is pretty developed. And most of that is huntable in some form. There's archaeological evidence of deer. They were gone by European contact. And in some way, they were reintroduced in the early 1900s. 00:51:03 Speaker 1: Wow, that's nuts. At the time of European contact, if you landed on Nantucket, there were no deer there. 00:51:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some interesting... It's not super clear, but there's some interesting articles that... And there's some genetic testing that... There's legend that one deer was brought over. He was swimming and some fishermen picked him up. Brought him and then they thought he was lonely and two dudes or people from Michigan brought two does from Michigan and That has created the stock on the entire to be kidding. It's kind of true. It's interesting it more genetic bottleneck Yeah, yeah, man, but they're doing pretty dang. 00:51:36 Speaker 2: You know that so Nantucket Historical Association says that they were there but natives drove them to be extirpated from. 00:51:43 Speaker 1: The I. 00:51:46 Speaker 3: So there's between 6,000 and 8,000 deer, 100 to 150 per square mile. Like we said, 20 is a lot. And then the demographics of the island itself, the median home price is $ 3. 5 million. The year-round population of the island, think of it as like the working population. 00:52:03 Speaker 1: The townies. 00:52:04 Speaker 3: The townies, about 15,000, and then it spikes to 60,000 in the summer. And there's this huge disparity between the two groups, economically, lifestyle, probably culturally and politically different. But there's, there are two different groups of folks. The players that are involved in this, this situation, there's, there's four that you need to know. Martin Feehan. He is the Massachusetts state biologist. He managed the herds, managed the extra tags that earn, earn many more bucks. He oversees the hunters share the harvest program, which is a state run venison donation program. He's generally a great dude. Talk to him. He's awesome. The second one, Nantucket Conservation Foundation. This is a nonprofit private organization focused on the ecological health of Nantucket. They're the ones running the pilot program that reimburses you $ 150 per deer for every deer you donate to the Hunters Share the Harvest program. They also are the largest landowner on the island, and they own approximately 8,000 acres, largely open, like 7,000 of those are open to hunting. Hmm. There's a map. 00:53:07 Speaker 1: Are you going to cover whether there's some giants on this island or not? 00:53:11 Speaker 3: Dude, there's some big bucks on this island. I look forward to that part. Yeah, so this is a map of their properties. The red is closed. The green is open. So it's pretty significant. The third player, and just to reiterate, that is a nonprofit funded by private dollars. The third player, the Nantucket Land Bank. This organization manages the deer processing facility that turns your donated deer into edible meat. Um, distributes the processed venison to the Nantucket food pantry and nourish Nantucket. And they own about 3,500 acres with hunting access. 00:53:44 Speaker 1: They own this land too. 00:53:45 Speaker 3: They are different entity that owns the land. They are funded by a tax on real estate transactions with, and those dollars specifically go to, uh, environmental projects and conservation. It's like similar to the weed tax we have in Montana. So Phil, if you'll go to that next one, it's similar map. And this is the land bank properties open and closed to hunting. The dark brown, I think that's brown, is that red? Whatever the darker color is that's closed, the lighter color is open. And then fourth is ACT Deer. And that is a group of landowners that reimburses ferry costs, provides private access, and recruits other landowners to allow hunting on their properties. Okay. 00:54:25 Speaker 1: God, these dudes are serious about getting some deer. 00:54:27 Speaker 4: They are. 00:54:28 Speaker 3: And so the problem, if we go back is 7,500 deer, they're spreading alpha gallon lime. They're crushing native vegetation and they're actually increasing erosion. Like you, there's all these articles about Martha's vineyard, Nantucket houses falling in when those deer walk across. And this is from the biologists. Isn't just like some crackpot when they walk across those, the edges, they'll create these points like, like a deer trail. And that's where the erosion will, will generally happen. Um, There there's 7,500 deer. 1,500 is the theoretical target population. That's like 30 deer per square mile, basically 20 and 30. Um, that's very unlikely they get there just cause the suburban nature and whatnot. Um, they historically kill $ 900 deer year. And to start moving that number from 7,500 down to 1,500, they need to kill 2000. So they need to double their harvest per year per year. Um, and that's just to start moving in the right direction. Uh, they've tried a ton of things and, and the, The incentives that they've tried and that they found is kind of the magic sauce here, is they have $ 30, 000 in private money or 200 deer at 150 bucks a pop for every donation. The Hunter's Share the Harvest program is free. It's paid for by those tax dollars. And all that food stays on the island and feeds food insecure folks. If you donate two deer, you earn an additional any sex tag. So your tag, your license comes with two bucks. You can buy an additional doe tag for $ 10. When you donate two deer to this program, you get an additional buck tag, basically. 00:56:01 Speaker 1: Every time. 00:56:01 Speaker 3: Every time. And you can just get, you can get doe tags. You can get antlerless tags, pretty much as many as you want on the island. There's unlimited antlers on the island that's been since like 1998. The seasons have doubled. It goes now from September 21st to February 14th. There's a ferry reimbursement up to 500 bucks. There's bumper stickers that if you participate, the state sends you a bumper sticker. There's custom hats that the island pays for that you get a custom hat if you participate in the program. 00:56:29 Speaker 4: And then... Just gets better and better. 00:56:32 Speaker 3: Okay, now I'm going, dude. Fee hand... He, he, because it's a state run, um, deer donation program, he manages, not only can he issue more tags for donations, he manages your contributions and he sends you a report of how many meals you provided to the community from all the deer you donated. 00:56:47 Speaker 1: I kind of want to go out here now. 00:56:48 Speaker 3: It's dude. 00:56:49 Speaker 1: I'm on X right now. 00:56:51 Speaker 3: Sounds like a blast. 00:56:52 Speaker 1: Dude, I'm sure we can get some ends, man. Let's cut this segment out of the podcast. People always talk about spot burning. Spot burning Nantucket, man. 00:56:59 Speaker 3: So I'll get to that. There was a man. 00:57:01 Speaker 1: In Nantucket, hauled his meat to town in a bucket. Hauled his hunting gear in a bucket. 00:57:07 Speaker 4: Seems like a pain in the ass to get to. 00:57:09 Speaker 3: Oh, buddy, it is. 00:57:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, but they pay you 500 bucks back. 00:57:11 Speaker 3: You know how much a ferry round trip with a truck is? No. 00:57:14 Speaker 7: 600. 00:57:14 Speaker 1: Okay, so 100 bucks. 00:57:17 Speaker 3: No camping on the island. 00:57:19 Speaker 2: Ooh, I'll find the right landowner. 00:57:21 Speaker 3: We'll figure it out. I'm just saying for the, for the average guy, like the, the, the obvious critique and, and what, what listeners highlighted is like, Hey, is this allowed? Are we going to like whack all these deer? What's going to happen? You, you cannot make money off this. The pro what the program's doing. Cause in the fall, most of the hotels shut down because it's summer Island. Then you're stuck with expensive Airbnbs, which if there is a hotel open, you probably can't man and mess with your deer there. You can't camp, so you can't take your truck camper. They, like, explicitly ban truck top campers, stuff like that. What? And so you're looking. 00:57:51 Speaker 1: Oh, they ban truck top campers? 00:57:52 Speaker 3: You're looking at $ 1, 000 a night. to stay there and hang out, basically. 00:57:58 Speaker 1: But why can't you camp at one of your landowners' places? 00:57:59 Speaker 3: You could camp at a landowner if you had a landowner hookup. But for the masses, this isn't going to be some giant draw. There are significant barriers to entry. 00:58:07 Speaker 1: Who shot this big stack of bucks in this photo? 00:58:09 Speaker 3: So I'll get there. Look at that. Okay, well, let's hit the big stack of bucks. The way most deer are killed is the shotgun season in early December. where they do like 50-person drives. The biologist was saying, he said he grew up in Wisconsin. 00:58:24 Speaker 1: 50-person drives. 00:58:25 Speaker 3: You've never seen drives like this. 00:58:27 Speaker 1: Drive the whole island. 00:58:27 Speaker 3: You'll drive. And so there's like these big grassland, these kind of savannas that they maintain. It's a little artificial because it's to recreate the goats that used to run there, and now they mow them and whatnot. And then there's all the scrub oak that they hang out in. And so you just have dudes push this. And you will stack deer. I mean, there's pictures like this all over. 00:58:44 Speaker 1: If we could all get out there and have a place to stay. 00:58:46 Speaker 3: Man, it'd be so fun. 00:58:47 Speaker 1: Like, take advanced deer drive strategies. 00:58:51 Speaker 5: If you're a Nantucket landowner, take that monocle out of your eye. Put down your money bags and give. 00:58:57 Speaker 3: Us a call. 00:58:57 Speaker 1: Let's plan a drive, man. So. I think we should bring Doug Dern as like the drive master. 00:59:03 Speaker 3: Yeah. Coordinator. 00:59:05 Speaker 1: Drive coordinator. Because he would want to make it more of a mooch. 00:59:09 Speaker 3: Hmm. Nah, a drive a mooch I understand I've got a lot of buckshot. 00:59:15 Speaker 1: Yeah my house this would be the most fun thing in the world I wanted to do then all that money we'd make I want. 00:59:21 Speaker 3: Some of the I want some of the contributors that spoke to most of the people at these orgs and they're awesome they're all they all like get it they all care Um, I think we would do a follow-up at the end of the season and see like, what are the results? How did it happen? Is the trend increasing? Are we getting to that 2000? 00:59:34 Speaker 1: Um, that 900 is going to go up. 00:59:38 Speaker 3: Yep. 00:59:38 Speaker 1: I don't know that it'll hit 2000 unless we can get this mooch to be loose. 00:59:42 Speaker 3: So the, the, you know, they have, they have funds for, for 200 deer, basically. The residents have already expressed that they want, they have a desire to fund this more because they're seeing it as so successful. Um, but also one thing that Mr. Feehan Martin, uh, that he highlighted is all these trends were, were going, most of these incentives existed before the financial incentive that was, is piloting this, this year. So we're like three weeks old on the financial side. Um, he was like, the trends were already going up. All these other incentives were working. So it's not just the dollars. The results so far last year was a record harvest. Um, over half the deer killed on the Island are being donated and eaten by folks on the Island. Um, Right now, for 2026, they're already above trend for the first few weeks in just archery. They're forecasting another record year. And like I said, deer drives is when you're going to make your money. That's when you're going to stack them up. 01:00:33 Speaker 1: You know how much is sitting right there in bounty money? 01:00:36 Speaker 3: Tell me. 01:00:37 Speaker 1: I imagine they really don't want to. 01:00:40 Speaker 3: Use the word bounty. You donate a thing and they will reimburse you. It's all donation based. 01:00:46 Speaker 1: They're not liking the word bounty. What's the take here? 01:00:48 Speaker 3: Well, that's. 01:00:53 Speaker 1: That's $ 3, 600 in bounty. 01:00:55 Speaker 3: Money right there. That's the way to do it. Cover three nights on the island. 01:00:59 Speaker 1: Shooting Randall's ammo. 01:01:01 Speaker 4: Where are these big mega giants you were talking about? 01:01:04 Speaker 1: He didn't say mega giants. 01:01:07 Speaker 4: He said something similar. 01:01:09 Speaker 3: There's two that are big. We'll get to it. If I can finish real quick. The things that matter. Actually, Randall, if you'll pull up a big old giant and send it to Phil. This matters because it's bucking a lot of the trends of issues we're having with whitetail overpopulation. Non-hunter acceptance is increasing. They didn't hire sharpshooters to come in. They're leveraging the hunters that already exist. The private dollars are what's funding these financial incentives. You can imagine it's generally a wealthy donor who probably doesn't live there in the fall. And those are benefiting the working class that do live there year round. The state managed venison donation program is significantly more effective than nonprofit versions. Not because nonprofits are bad or anything, It's because the state has the ability to leverage additional tags and additional resources that a nonprofit wouldn't. And then the alternative funding method, which we always love to highlight through the tax on real estate sales is what's allowing the meat to be donated and then eventually eaten by folks on the island. And I think the coolest thing to kind of highlight is that venison is becoming and has become a primary protein source for year-round residents in one of the richest places in the U.S. You know, like, Most people on the island are eating venison in one way or another in a place you would not expect to be eating venison. And so the real question is like, can this be replicated? Is this a tool we can adopt for CWD? Is this just like a weird thing that can happen on Nantucket? I don't know. 01:02:34 Speaker 1: It'll be interesting. Not that it can't. I'm skeptical that it would become any widespread model because I think here you have an exceptionally wealthy population of people that are dealing with a very acute crisis where their grandkids, their children, whatever, are reluctant to go outside because Lyme is so prevalent. They're getting alpha-gal syndrome. The tick stuff's out of control. It's very, very nimby. And I think that there's a lot of areas in the country where you could point and say, hey, we have a real problem with CWD, for instance. And they would say, how's that my problem? Show me the problem. It doesn't resonate with them. But I think here on Nantucket, it's resonating with them. The actual residents are feeling the effects of insane deer densities. So I think that it's personal for them and they are people of means, right? And you have these organizations that own this land that can be opened up to hunt. And that's not always the case. So I would say, I would say, cool idea, I don't, and maybe in here and there, maybe on Martha's Vineyard, which has a similar problem, sure. But generally, no. 01:04:06 Speaker 3: Martha's Vineyard is, they actually, they created this idea, and there's a similar model, and then Tech has taken it. I just, what I thought. 01:04:17 Speaker 1: Do you have an ear tag? 01:04:18 Speaker 3: I don't know. 01:04:19 Speaker 5: I was just going through Photos, and I didn't notice that. But that was, this buck was spotted just swimming off the coast of Nantucket. It's a lot of cool pictures of white-tailed deer with the ocean in the background. 01:04:34 Speaker 3: My takeaway, to respond to your comment, my takeaway is CW, I think to make this effective across more jurisdictions, CWD would have to jump to a person, and then people would start caring about it. And nobody wants that. 01:04:46 Speaker 1: Well, then they would just say, I'm not going to eat deer meat. 01:04:51 Speaker 3: Well, then you'd have to change the donation. It would get all squirrely. But until that, I just don't think there's an impetus. 01:04:57 Speaker 1: For it to exist. No, I think it would work on really rich islands. Fire Island. Yeah, I can sit and name them. I'm kind of running out of islands, but yeah. 01:05:08 Speaker 5: It's a good island play. 01:05:09 Speaker 3: It would be maybe. 01:05:10 Speaker 1: It's a good island move. 01:05:11 Speaker 2: These deer should pat themselves on the back. It's rare that they become such a problem that they can get an entire community to agree that, like, we got to get rid of these things. 01:05:21 Speaker 5: If it gets bad enough there, maybe they'll allow Spencer and his truck camper to show up. 01:05:26 Speaker 1: They really brought the town together. 01:05:27 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:05:30 Speaker 1: But, man, that big buck drive, dude, if you could drive the whole island. 01:05:33 Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. 01:05:35 Speaker 1: You'd want to bring in some of them dudes that fought on, like, Okinawa and whatnot. 01:05:39 Speaker 5: Snapshooters? 01:05:40 Speaker 1: Just to be like, hey, man, how do you run, like, something like this? 01:05:45 Speaker 3: Amphibious assault. 01:05:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you run, like, just really getting in there on an island? 01:05:49 Speaker 3: You know, we need some Marines. 01:05:51 Speaker 1: Some Zodiacs. Yeah, we need some Marines. 01:05:54 Speaker 3: Not calling the Army this time. Phil, did you get that picture I just sent you? That's this one that's about to pop up. It's Martha's Vineyard Buck. 01:06:05 Speaker 2: That is. 01:06:06 Speaker 4: I don't get it. 01:06:07 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Okay, because the ear tag buck, I don't know what I'm looking at. 01:06:12 Speaker 3: That's a buck. That's a big dog. 01:06:13 Speaker 1: That's Martha's Vineyard. 01:06:14 Speaker 3: Yep. 01:06:15 Speaker 4: Good job, young fella, using a real bow. 01:06:19 Speaker 1: Stand-up bow. What do they call them bows? 01:06:20 Speaker 3: Vertical. 01:06:21 Speaker 2: Compound. 01:06:22 Speaker 1: Look at that young guy. That's a nice buck, man. 01:06:27 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 01:06:29 Speaker 1: And he's got $ 150 lying in his pocket now. No, because he might not be from the pay place. 01:06:34 Speaker 3: No, Nantucket has $ 100 for a buck and $ 150 for a duck. 01:06:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what's interesting, the last point I have about this that didn't really click with me, should you go to Nantucket and shoot a deer and say, I'm going to eat this one myself, you're out. No one's giving you $ 150. 01:06:48 Speaker 2: Nope. 01:06:49 Speaker 1: You've got to donate it to get the money. 01:06:53 Speaker 3: But especially on those drives, I think you are– there's a guy already. I didn't have a chance to talk to him. I'm hoping to get him on next time. A guy's already killed– donated eight. 01:07:04 Speaker 4: Steve, this might be a case where you could have your cake and eat it too. 01:07:08 Speaker 1: But I think that they should also be– I don't think they should be discriminating against deer meat eaters. I think it should be, Hey man, donate it or bring us like it's ear. Yeah. It's left ear. It's tail. And we'll give you 150 bucks. So that'll help them avoid the bounty. 01:07:24 Speaker 3: Yes. 01:07:25 Speaker 5: Allegations. 01:07:28 Speaker 1: If you bring us a scalp, we'll give you $ 150. 01:07:30 Speaker 3: The precursor for this was a private citizen who was doing it. She had similar program, but she said your third deer and on, she would give a hundred bucks per deer. And he just didn't move the needle. Um, I think dudes who are whacking all these deer, they're eating their deer and they're donating. 01:07:48 Speaker 1: You can only eat so many deer. 01:07:49 Speaker 3: Right. 01:07:50 Speaker 1: If you're like a single guy, I'm kind of out of touch on this issue because we have a family of five. If you're a single guy, how many deer can you eat? If you eat at home every night, how many deer are you going through? 01:08:01 Speaker 3: Two? 01:08:01 Speaker 2: Three? 01:08:01 Speaker 3: If you're a single dude? Annually? 01:08:03 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:08:03 Speaker 4: Way more than two or three, I would think. I don't know what the number is. 01:08:08 Speaker 3: I would love if you're a single dude hunting on Nantucket, whacking deer, right in. 01:08:12 Speaker 1: Tell us how many deer you're eating. When we were rich in deer meat as single guys, our mantra was like burgers for lunch, steaks for dinner. Two meals a day, not just one meal a day. Living the dream. That was a great report, man. 01:08:28 Speaker 3: Thank you. 01:08:29 Speaker 1: Real good report. 01:08:30 Speaker 3: Big shout out to all those organizations. Listen back if you want to hear their names. 01:08:37 Speaker 1: Doing that deer drive. 01:08:38 Speaker 3: Kentucky Conservation Foundation. 01:08:40 Speaker 1: Shooting windows out of those sweet houses on accident. I'm not saying that should happen. I'm just saying that's a problem I could imagine. 01:08:47 Speaker 3: You remember how we covered Massachusetts, the changes in the laws, the Sunday hunting, and the 250-foot standoff? 01:08:53 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:08:54 Speaker 3: There's pretty significant impact for this island if that goes through. Talking to the biologists. It would shut the harvest down. No, it would increase it remarkably. 01:09:02 Speaker 1: Oh, you mean getting rid of it. 01:09:04 Speaker 3: No, because right now the laws being proposed is it would open up Sunday hunting and it would reduce the standoff from 500 feet to 250. Got it. Huge impact on these two islands. Open up a lot more opportunities. You think of a weekend warrior who's going to go there Friday to Monday or whatever. He can't hunt Sunday. There's no point. Martin Feehan, Nantucket Conservation Foundation, Nantucket Land Bank, and Act Deer. 01:09:27 Speaker 1: I'm just going to leave it be there. Because I feel that it's so limited, I'm not going to get into the doom and gloom about incentivizing about making a market dynamic for deer meat. I'm not even going to get into it. What I'm doing right now is an apophysis. I'm bringing something up by saying I won't bring it up. So I'm not even going to bring that up. I'm not going to bring up what this would mean for wildlife management in America if you were monetarily incentivized to go out and harvest wild game. I don't even want to get into it. I'm not bringing that up. 01:10:09 Speaker 3: Got it. 01:10:10 Speaker 1: But think about it. 01:10:15 Speaker 3: To New Mexico? 01:10:17 Speaker 1: Yes, please. 01:10:19 Speaker 5: All right. So a couple, I guess it was maybe two months ago, I covered a court case in New Mexico that had to do with fraudulent tag applications. And as part of that discussion, I talked about how exceptional, in a bad way, New Mexico is among Western states for fraud. resident hunter and tag allocation because they have an outfitter set aside they also have uh landowner transferable landowner tags um and in that discussion i sort of hinted that this thing was coming uh but the the headline this week is uh i guess it was last week the attorney general of new mexico raul torres released his attorney general opinion that the 10 set aside of hunting tags in new mexico for outfitters is unconstitutional so he has issued the league it's the legal opinion of the state's chief lawyer it's not a binding policy change or anything but he has looked at the law and he's looked at the constitution and there's a big long opinion that you can read but they don't course correct you can sue them that's right um and so this is i i spoke with the ag's office this morning and they they pointed out this is not like a They have an ongoing process where lawmakers can point out things that the state's doing and ask for the AG's opinion. So this was part of a process. It wasn't like a special investigation that they did, right? But it's a part of their state governance process. And lawmakers on April 29th of this year sought an attorney general opinion on two questions about tag allocation. And they observed that One, there's this 10% set aside of tags for outfitters. And this is controversial because, especially among state residents, because they believe it's a carve out to wealthy non-resident hunters. 01:12:18 Speaker 1: And- Like earlier when I was talking about that supply and demand issue. Here you have New Mexicans, people from New Mexico, all those trying to get tags coming up empty handed. But meanwhile, they're, Yeah, and this is... Outfitters are getting the tags. 01:12:34 Speaker 5: And this is something, when I spoke to the Attorney General's office, they actually said, you know, the Attorney General wanted to get his son out elk hunting and couldn't get him a tag. And so this is something that had actually affected him personally. You know, like, it's not an unfamiliar scenario for hunters in New Mexico to think of tags they want and that other people are getting because of these programs that they have. So the questions that these lawmakers asked, and... Nathan Small, Representative Nathan Small, was was one of those lawmakers who asked for the attorney general's opinion. They asked about the license, the 10 percent set aside. And then there's also a thing that New Mexico Department of Wildlife does where they combine units for bighorn sheep licenses in order to create essentially more places where you can pull 10 percent from. create more pools where you can pull 10% from. And they asked about these questions individually and together, what are the constitutional implications in relation to a provision in the New Mexico state constitution that it's called the anti-donation clause. And this bans the state from making gifts or donations to private persons, associations, or corporations. So The Attorney General's opinion is, it's 13 pages, and in brief, he finds that the anti-donation clause, quote, conveys exclusive access to a public resource without constitutionally adequate considerations. And then he, that's looking at the outfitter's suicide, and then the bighorn hunt lumping is, quote, infected by anti-donation clause issues. And eventually, The opinion concludes, a state program that transfers the exclusive right to broker access to a public resource without genuine consideration and at the expense of the residents that resource belongs to bears the character of a donation in substance and effect. The New Mexico Constitution prohibits it. And he's quoted in the paper or in a statement, Um, he says hunting hasn't just been a sport in New Mexico. It's a way of life that tradition is being sold out from under working New Mexicans right now, a broken system lets wealthy out of staters by their way to the front of the line while our own families wait year after year for a tag. Um, so as I said previously, it's, it's, it's an opinion of the state's chief lawyer. It's not binding, but the legislature will convene on January 19th. and the Attorney General's office is hopeful that they will address this legislatively through statute. Nathan Small is one of the lawmakers who asked the Attorney General to review this issue. He said that they plan to address this. It's still given the election season. They're not really putting draft legislation out there yet, but it seems like everyone in New Mexico that I talked to is expecting that the legislature will take this up. And the Outfitters set aside, it seems, really would require statute to change that. The Bighorn unit lumping, the department could maybe address through administrative rulemaking, but they really need the legislature to step up and address this issue. Or else, yeah, litigation either from the Attorney General or private parties could sue and say my rights under the Constitution are being violated. So this is, I mean, there's a lot of numbers to run through here. And I don't know that that's going to help clarify things. But I think that the takeaways are, this is really good news that lawmakers and the attorney general are taking action against this unfair tag allocation. 01:16:46 Speaker 1: You're going to opine on this. This is not just the facts. 01:16:49 Speaker 5: No, I think, I mean, I'm prepared to opine on it. 01:16:51 Speaker 6: Okay. 01:16:53 Speaker 5: You know, one of the interesting questions when I talked to Jeremy Romero, he was saying, you know, even if they do away with this 10% allocation, it's like, okay, well now you have this additional 10% of tags. Do they, do you split those between residents and non-residents? Do you just dump all those into the non-resident pool? I mean, those are all things that'll, that'll be determined. 01:17:15 Speaker 1: Somehow I thought, and I don't even know why I thought this, I thought it was six, four. It could be, but. 01:17:22 Speaker 5: It's not necessarily. I made that up. I believe that's what they're anticipating it will be, but it's not in any draft. 01:17:31 Speaker 1: So a 6% increase if they did it that way. Yeah. A 6% increase in tags available to residents, a 4% increase of elk tags available to non-residents. 01:17:42 Speaker 5: And what's appealing about that scenario is, so right now there's a 6% non-resident carve-out And then on top of that, there's this 10% of outfitter tags. And then the remainder is resident. Or I should say the remainder is divided into other pools, right? Like the landowner tags and all that. But if you were to divide it 6-4 and add that 4% to the pre-existing 6%, it would bring it to 90-10, which is a pretty standard ratio for big game games. 01:18:17 Speaker 1: Across the West. And there's some squirreliness with this program that I wasn't aware of. If you, I believe that you only need to use the Outfitter services for a capped period of time, two or three days. 01:18:31 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 01:18:33 Speaker 1: So when you apply and get the Outfitter. 01:18:35 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:18:37 Speaker 1: If you apply and get the Outfitter tag. Yeah. If the Outfitter like packs you in somewhere and hangs out for a day or two. you then hunt on your own. 01:18:48 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:18:49 Speaker 1: It's two or three day cap. So you could make a two week, whatever, 10 day hunt, whatever. You're not even with the outfitter. You're not paying for the outfitter the whole time. You're paying for the outfitter for a couple of days. 01:19:00 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:19:01 Speaker 1: Squirrely little detail. 01:19:02 Speaker 5: And, and one of the things that the attorney general pointed out in the, in the opinion is that, the outfitters are paying fees to be licensed or registered, and they're essentially paying collectively $ 150, 000 in outfitter fees as a whole. I think it's $ 500 to register for an individual outfitter. And then the benefit that they're getting from the state in terms of the value of those tags is $ 15 million. 01:19:32 Speaker 3: Wow. 01:19:33 Speaker 5: So it's essentially saying, How can this not be considered a gift or a donation in violation of the constitution? If they're paying in a dollar for every hundred dollars they're getting back from the state. 01:19:46 Speaker 1: That's interesting. 01:19:48 Speaker 5: I will point out too, because I also talked to folks who are deeply invested in just the broader landscape of this non-resident resident issue in New Mexico. And, you know, the vast majority of those privatized tags are, not from the outfitter pool. Like the out, like if you got away, if you did away with all the outfitter tags tomorrow, New Mexico is still like grossly in, uh, it's still like this, this huge exception. When you look across Western States at the number of transferable tags that are given out to private entities. 01:20:25 Speaker 1: Well, that's why that's when I, that's what I'm going to crystal ball for you. My, this is my, this is my, this is my hypothesis that this is a, an initial play. Right. And what will come up for discussion next is that in New Mexico, they have these transferable open unit elk tags. 01:20:54 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:20:55 Speaker 1: Where a rancher, if he owns a specified acreage, he gets handed elk tags by the state and he can sell those elk tags to But when someone buys that elk tag from that rancher, they can hunt anywhere in the unit. I've bought these. Yeah. 01:21:10 Speaker 3: Bought one of these. 01:21:11 Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, you could be like, hey, I hate the game, not the play or whatever. I've bought these. It is, it's a squirrely system. And it just is. 01:21:23 Speaker 5: But that's the system. 01:21:24 Speaker 1: But that's the system. I heard, I don't know if it's true. Like, you know, the Vermejo Ranch, Ted Turner's Vermejo Ranch, New Mexico. My understanding is they, is that they are given a hundred landowner elk tags. 01:21:41 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:21:42 Speaker 5: It's New Mexico issues just under three quarters of all transferable private landowner tags in the West. 01:21:51 Speaker 1: Seriously. 01:21:51 Speaker 6: Yeah. 01:21:52 Speaker 3: Can I give you the split from. 01:21:53 Speaker 5: And one, one more point on this. Um, You know, the other, when you talk about the two in conversation, the outfitter tags and the landowner tags, I mean, the big difference is there is that the outfitters and guides are promoted primarily like working class, New Mexicans, business owners. When you get into the landowner thing, you're talking about some of the wealthiest, like you bring up Ted Turner, some of the wealthiest entities in the state who have a lot more pull at the legislative level. So this is definitely the, the easier of the two hurdles. 01:22:30 Speaker 1: It's interesting that they would have said, which of these do we bring up first? 01:22:35 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:22:35 Speaker 1: And again, it's just my hypothesis that that's going to be the next discussion is what do we do about this huge pool of transferable open unit tags? 01:22:43 Speaker 5: And I, I asked if I asked, um, I asked whether or not the same argument could be made about landowner tags. And, uh, the attorney general's office basically said that's, That's not how this works. We were asked to look into two different questions relating to these specific programs. And so they can't really, very different. They can't crystal ball it. 01:23:07 Speaker 3: Right. 01:23:07 Speaker 1: Very different, very, very different things. 01:23:11 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:23:11 Speaker 5: Very different setups. And they, they derive from different statutes. It's all very complicated, but for people in New Mexico that want an elk tag that want to hunt elk in their home state, it's the same. It's, it's kind of sticks in your craw the same way. 01:23:27 Speaker 3: Yeah. new mexico wildlife federation 40 of all elk licenses in new mexico are allocated to private landowners of those 75 approximately go to non-residents and 20 of those are unit-wide tags oh which means they can run right away only 20 of those i didn't know that still big big chunk okay okay. 01:23:52 Speaker 5: Hmm so yeah i mean it's obviously this is big news and it's It's interesting to see an attorney general's office talking about fairness in tag allocation. 01:24:03 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:24:04 Speaker 1: It's encouraging to see that be taken seriously. Yeah. 01:24:07 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:24:08 Speaker 1: Hmm. I wasn't going to opine on it, but you opined on it. That's cool. 01:24:13 Speaker 3: Op-ed. 01:24:14 Speaker 6: Yeah, man. 01:24:14 Speaker 1: Stepping in there, getting all controversial. Onto that power line. Now this is one, this is one of those ones where, um, This is a news story where I might not look at it and be like, well, that's big enough for the news show. You know? 01:24:33 Speaker 3: Right? 01:24:34 Speaker 1: I might look at it and be like, that seems like almost too local. But a lot of guys, either there's a lot of listeners in the Driftless area of Wisconsin, or it just is a huge issue. Where a lot of guys are writing in about this big ass power line. They're fixing to cut through Wisconsin's Driftless area. The lovely and beautiful Phil is going to pull up, if you're watching, he's going to pull up a photo. 01:25:05 Speaker 4: This is the first I'm hearing about this, Steve. 01:25:08 Speaker 3: Give me one second here. 01:25:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, Nate really shit the bed on this particular segment. 01:25:12 Speaker 3: It's right there. 01:25:14 Speaker 1: Can you pull it up? I thought you were just amused by how he introduced you. I wanted a graphic that shows dudes stacked up. You know, like if you're showing how big a mammoth is, you got like two dudes standing there. 01:25:24 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:25:25 Speaker 1: It would show dudes all stacked up showing how high these things are. This is a huge power line. 01:25:33 Speaker 3: Huge. 01:25:33 Speaker 1: I don't see the image. 01:25:34 Speaker 4: All right. 01:25:35 Speaker 1: Regardless. 01:25:37 Speaker 3: I'll move on. I'll get it up eventually. Nate, can you just send it to me, please? 01:25:40 Speaker 5: Imagine, if you will, a power line. 01:25:42 Speaker 1: Of enormous dimensions. 01:25:44 Speaker 3: Okay. 01:25:45 Speaker 1: So it's one of those giant, giant power lines. 200 foot tall towers. The right-of-way strip is just under 100 yards wide. So now picture this sucker coming in through your zone, 100 yards wide. The contested portion of this thing is about 140 miles. It runs from Marion, Minnesota, near Rochester, to Bell Center, Wisconsin, and Crawford County. In Wisconsin, it goes through Vernon and Crawford counties, crosses the Mississippi River near Genoa, and everybody's arguing about the route this is going to take. Now, this thing is so big. This thing won't be cranking electricity until 2034. Look at that guy's house. Imagine being that sucker. It's like that power line, if it was animated, that tower would reach down and pick that dude's house up. picture it as a monster, which it's shaped like, would pick that dude's house up and throw it if it were animated. Part of the problem with this power line, why is that funny? 01:27:04 Speaker 5: I just like that you had to couch that. 01:27:07 Speaker 3: Of course, if they were to come to life. 01:27:10 Speaker 1: Just clarifying for listeners, as currently... configured it is not capable of picking a house up and throwing it has kaiju energy the other type. 01:27:19 Speaker 5: Of transformer. 01:27:21 Speaker 1: Part of what is burning wisconsinites asses on this whole thing is this moving power across the region not to the region so wisconsinites reasonably are like hey what's in it for me man this is bringing power from one set of people to another set of people mowing through all our area and it's not even doing us any good And a lot of opponents are pointing out that Wisconsin's electric demand has been flat for about 20 years, so they're just having a hard time picturing why life needs to now be upended by this power line through an area where it's going to cross Beaucoup cold water trout streams, including the Kickapoo watershed, and it's in the Mississippi Flyway, which if you're a duck and goose guy, the Mississippi Flyway is not looking for more problems. bird flight obstructions. Here to tell us a little more about it, because he's been on the ground, is the most civically minded individual that I hang out with. Doug Duren from Driftless Area, Wisconsin. Doug goes to meetings about stuff. When there's a meeting about deer management, Doug goes. When there's a meeting about big power lines, Doug goes. Very civically engaged. And Doug's going to give us a little local flavor about what exactly is going on and how people are receiving this. Doug, thanks for coming on. 01:28:49 Speaker 7: Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, this is kind of interesting. There's the two segments. There's the BECI line that you're talking about. and then the continuation of that, which actually would go through Richland, Sauk, Vernon, and Monroe County. It's sort of all tied together. And the issue that we're having at this point is that at the end of the July, first part of August, landowners found out about it. And they got letters that said, you know, we're going to be coming through your area, and there are all these proposed lines. And then suddenly it's going to be approved by the PSC early in 2027. So as you can imagine, there are a lot and a lot of questions about it all. It's one of those things where you don't want to be that guy who says, not in my backyard, but I would say a couple of things about it. One of them is that, first of all, there's several power lines that are already going through the Driftless that are transmission lines taking power to other parts of the country. And this is a part of the, of the Midwest, the MISO, the Mid-Continent Independent System Operator grid. So this is a big grid issue, right? And where they're wanting to put it is really a big part of the problem. There's a hierarchy in the state of what you're supposed to be considering when you're doing this. The first one is to use the existing utility corridors. The second is to use. 01:30:25 Speaker 7: Like interstate highways and state highway corridors. The third is railroad corridors, which there are, you know, that are being used, but then also that are decommissioned. And then the fourth one is a new route. Well, when this was proposed and the information came out to the landowners, it was like they skipped all the first three and went right to number four. And it feels like there's a steamroller coming through the driftless. Like we're going to do this. This is how it's going to, how it's going to happen. And it's been a, interestingly, it's been a really uniting thing in the Driftless area. You know, there's a lot of divergent ideas about everything in the Driftless area, politics and such, but this is something that people of all political and other stripes have gotten together and are behind, like, not even the, There's a faction that says, no way, no how, we've already done our share. We've already got lines going through that are for this transmission grid. There's that faction. And there's others that are saying, let's slow down. Let's take some time to look at this and have a thoughtful plan if this is going to happen. And it just doesn't feel like that's the interest. I had a state senator stop by the other day to an event that i was at and i talked to her about it she said i found out about it the same day that landowners found out about. 01:32:00 Speaker 1: It doug why did they skip the one two and three if if you'd be like if you're going to do a power line do it where you already have a power line or do it along the side of a highway or do it along the side of a set of railroad tracks why did they skip all that and just decide that they want to just cut it through a bunch of farm ground. 01:32:19 Speaker 7: I wish I knew the answer to that, Steve, and that's why we're asking, that's why the folks at, especially at know765. org are saying, let's take a step back, let's think about this process a little bit more. And that's one of the questions that hasn't been answered, along with some others that might need, like, you said earlier that, I mean, this isn't for people of the driftless area. This is going through the driftless area. This isn't for us. It's through us. 01:32:50 Speaker 2: Right. 01:32:50 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:32:51 Speaker 7: Uh, and that's a problem. You know, I think that you, you would, you know enough about the driftless to know that there's some pretty generous people here and we're willing to help out, but it feels like we've helped out with these other lines and now they just want to do this, um, again, without really much of a deliberative process. Um, And there's big money behind it and all of that. I mean, you know, the other question that I have is why can't they bury this lane? Turns out they could. 01:33:19 Speaker 3: Oh, really? 01:33:20 Speaker 7: Yeah. And well, it's done all over the world and in some places of the United States. This is a big chunk of power going through there. But they could do that. And there just doesn't seem to be any, or if there has been any consideration to that, it's not one that's been made clear to the public or our elected officials. Like I said, my state senator was here and she's like, I didn't really have any more information than anybody else. So there's a lot of, you know, protesting. And, I mean, you can't drive around without seeing signs about it. And people are writing me and saying, why isn't Ronella talking about this? He likes the Driftless area. And I'm like, you know, you should probably ask him that question. So, I mean, I'm directing some of that traffic for you, of course. One of the things that I wanted to point out to you is that one of the proposed lines, remember that first time you came out and you and Mo and Dan Doty came out and we shot that first episode sort of at the end of the season? 01:34:19 Speaker 3: Yep. 01:34:19 Speaker 7: And then we went down to Kiefer's old, well, formerly Kiefer's Farm, but we went down to Kiefer's Farm. 01:34:25 Speaker 3: Yep. 01:34:25 Speaker 7: And we shot that little PRCP video. 01:34:28 Speaker 3: Exactly. 01:34:29 Speaker 7: About the Conservation Reserve Program, about changing the land use. And look at here, the brook trout have come back. 01:34:36 Speaker 3: Yep. 01:34:37 Speaker 7: One of these proposed lines is right up that valley. 01:34:40 Speaker 3: Oh, is that right? Yeah. Right. 01:34:42 Speaker 7: I mean, right through Kiefer's old farm. I mean, he sold his farm, but. 01:34:46 Speaker 1: Oh my God. Really? God, that changed that place, man. Holy smokes. 01:34:51 Speaker 7: I mean, imagine that. 01:34:52 Speaker 1: Right. 01:34:52 Speaker 7: And I mean, there's all of these environmental concerns and none of them seem to be, they certainly haven't been addressed to the public. And so this just seems like this, we're being steamrolled. 01:35:04 Speaker 1: What are the odds, Doug, what are the odds that when something like this is happening, I don't want to say when something like this is happening, we'll stick to this power line. What are the odds that they sort of imagine this as an initial offer where they're saying, let's test the waters, man. We'll put it out there and see how much blowback there is, and then we'll land where else. But let's just start by saying the thing that's most profitable, easiest to do, and see if these people fight back or not. But in the back of their minds, they know it's not going to work the way they want it to work. 01:35:41 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's almost like it's their first position we'll see. And some of the evidence of that is if you flip through the maps and everything of the thing, you'll see that there are like four different routes that are proposed. And it's almost like, let's see where the most resistance or the least resistance is to it. Um, and, um, it's almost like they're, you know, one person, one landowner might say, well, as long as they don't come through mine, it'd be all right. People aren't, they aren't buying that, man. They're, they are united against the idea of it. Um, to begin with, man, I should, this is a funny thing. You know, I thought it was hilarious. I sat down at one of these meetings and sitting next to me as an Amish doc dude. And I'm like, what are you doing here? You don't use electricity. 01:36:31 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:36:35 Speaker 7: And I said it just like that. And he looked at me and said, well, they want to put this line through my land. So you can imagine how I feel about it. 01:36:42 Speaker 4: Oh, is that right? 01:36:43 Speaker 1: No kidding, man. Dude, the irony of that, talking about not for it, but through it. The irony of that, dude, not even using any juice and having that thing running through his place. Listening to that thing humming and crackling all the time. 01:36:56 Speaker 7: So those are the issues. And at the end of the day, the biggest issue is, The biggest issues are it's not for us. It's through us. Wisconsin's use has been flat. It doesn't seem to me that it's, or to anybody else, that it's been very well planned. And then, you know, we could get into bigger discussions about what are we doing about energy conservation? What are we doing about alternative energies? And should we be thinking about more regional generation as well? You know, this power is going to Chicago and, You know, East is like, well, put it that way. The projected use in Wisconsin is pretty much flat forward, except for one thing. And that is if there are AI data centers built here. 01:37:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. 01:37:49 Speaker 7: It's already been one that is under construction, and future ones are being flat. So this stuff is all tied together, you know? I mean, we all want to use electricity. We all got to have electricity. but it's a bigger conversation and it just seems like, you know, it seems like the, like my friend Ken Butcher said, if you don't, if, if things are going to change, you can't keep doing things the same way. And that's, it's sort of it, you know, why aren't we, why aren't we thinking about what the other possibilities are here? And it just, I think there's, I mean, obviously it's like a one point, I think you said at a $ 1. 3 billion project, there's a lot of steel involved with these things. And I don't know, man, it's, it just seems like to me, we need to step back, take a break, do some real thoughtful deliberation and some environmental, more environmental impacts. And, you know, think about these, these bigger things. So, That's what the group no765. org is all about. 01:38:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, say that name again for people that live in this area and they want to check this thing out. I mean, you're definitely getting a biased perspective, but tell me the name of the group. 01:39:02 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's called no765. 01:39:06 Speaker 1: Org. No765. org. Yeah, I don't think they're going to articulate the yes side, but I guess the yes side is someone's going to make a bunch of money and some dudes far away are getting some power. So this will tell you the local side. 01:39:20 Speaker 7: I think if you go onto the website, though, and start looking around on there, that there is some discussion about need for power, understanding that there needs to be transmission. It just becomes a question of whether this is the right place or not. 01:39:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, if you went through life, if you went through life, if people in this country just always took the attitude of, well, we need this, we need that, we wouldn't have nothing but concrete and roads. Yeah. At this point, there would be nothing left. We're at a point in our nation's history. I always talk about this. For a long time, we had wild places because we hadn't gotten around to developing them all yet. And then things shifted. And now we have wild places in nature and wildlife habitat because people fight for it. Like our focus used to be fighting to conquer it. Now the focus has shifted. Now you've got people that fight to preserve it. So, yeah, I get the whole we need this and need that argument. If they always won, there wouldn't be nothing left anywhere. 01:40:29 Speaker 3: All right, man. 01:40:30 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on, Doug. 01:40:33 Speaker 4: Thanks, Doug. 01:40:35 Speaker 1: Digging that Grateful Dead deal you got on there. All right. 01:40:38 Speaker 3: Yep. 01:40:41 Speaker 4: Doug's got a shirt. 01:40:42 Speaker 1: You know, like Grateful Dead. What do you normally see inside the Grateful Dead head thing with the skull cut off? 01:40:48 Speaker 4: It's a lightning bolt. 01:40:49 Speaker 1: There's normally a lightning bolt in there? Well, Doug's shirt is the Great Lakes. 01:40:54 Speaker 4: Kind of. 01:40:55 Speaker 1: Heavily focused on Wisconsin. It's like, yeah. Nice shirt, Doug. 01:41:02 Speaker 7: Michigan's on there too, Steve. 01:41:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit of it is. Where I grew up is, which is cool. 01:41:08 Speaker 3: All right, Doug. Love you. 01:41:11 Speaker 7: Yeah, I love you, too. 01:41:12 Speaker 1: Thanks, man. 01:41:14 Speaker 3: All right. 01:41:15 Speaker 2: Our last segment is sports ball fights. Football season is here and we are going to predict the winner of some games this season. But we're not basing this on talent or coaching or home field advantage like every other analyst. We are picking based on the merits of their animal mascots. Thanks to DraftKings for sponsoring today's segment. This week, Steve is going to predict how it would go. If a Cardinal fought a Bronco, just like is what is going to happen here in week seven of the NFL season, right? Steve, who would win that skirmish? 01:41:44 Speaker 1: I don't want to handle it that way. 01:41:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it should be how many Cardinals it would take. 01:41:48 Speaker 1: No, I don't want to handle it that way. 01:41:49 Speaker 6: All right. 01:41:50 Speaker 1: We did this before, and I was wrong. I'm not going to talk about between a Cardinal and a Bronco. Okay. Who would win a fight? 01:41:59 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:42:00 Speaker 1: That's stupid. Okay. 01:42:02 Speaker 3: Good feedback. 01:42:05 Speaker 1: Well, it's just not what I wanna do. I'm more interested in who should win. Who should win. 01:42:13 Speaker 5: From a moral perspective? 01:42:14 Speaker 3: Yes. 01:42:15 Speaker 1: Moral and otherwise. So as I painted out before, when I had to deal with something with these Broncos before, when I, like I know a Bronco can mean different things to different people. Hell, some people think it's a vehicle. 01:42:27 Speaker 3: OJ Simpson. 01:42:28 Speaker 1: When I think of, yes, there's one, for instance, the late OJ. Did he get in trouble? Um, A time or two. The kind of bronco I'm talking about is a, is a feral horse, which is causing enormous, as I mentioned before, causing major wildlife issues in the arid West where we have some poorly crafted legislation that has made wild horse, feral horse management ineffective and our hands are tied and we're losing native wildlife to feral domestics. 01:43:05 Speaker 2: Hmm. 01:43:07 Speaker 1: And that's when I think of Broncos, that's what comes to mind. 01:43:10 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:43:11 Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't think they should win nothing. 01:43:14 Speaker 2: You're always going to pick against the Broncos. 01:43:15 Speaker 3: Always. 01:43:16 Speaker 4: Always, always, always. 01:43:18 Speaker 1: I don't care what. Maybe there's some situation. Like if you were like, who should win? Like famine? 01:43:27 Speaker 3: Global famine? 01:43:28 Speaker 1: Or the Broncos? 01:43:29 Speaker 4: Poachers. 01:43:29 Speaker 1: I don't know. 01:43:30 Speaker 5: Poachers or Broncos. 01:43:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about Cardinals and Broncos. Here's why a Cardinal should win. I like to do a thing. When I'm sitting in the turkey woods, in the morning at daybreak, so it's dark, just coming on daylight, and like the world, this is springtime, late April, early May, like the world is waking up. If you're a birdman, you don't need an aid to know what I'm going to say, but if you're not a birdman, download Merlin, the Merlin app, and turn it on. And I'm going to make, I don't care where you live. Well, maybe I do a little bit. Most places that you live, the first thing that's going to happen in the morning, before it's even light, when there's just like in the cold gray light of dawn, the first thing you're going to hear, it's a cardinal. He's always there ready to start the day. He's an early riser. He's got a beautiful call. If you got your app open, your bird ID app, and you're just sitting there watching it, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, he's going to beat the crows. 01:44:46 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:44:46 Speaker 1: Now, crows will beat a turkey, but no one beats a cardinal. Yeah. 01:44:50 Speaker 2: And that means that there's a dead loved one nearby, I think. That's what they say when you see a cardinal. 01:44:56 Speaker 3: Boy. 01:44:57 Speaker 1: Way to bring this down. Brow that down. Well, talking about cardinals. 01:45:03 Speaker 2: Now i gotta check dude i was trying to paint a beautiful picture yeah keep going cardinals dead love there's grandpa just flew by well that's kind of sweet that's cool i like that okay we're back in. 01:45:13 Speaker 5: On now i'm back a red cardinal especially shortly after a funeral or during a difficult moment is often interpreted as a sign a departed family member or friend is nearby oh. 01:45:22 Speaker 4: I love that i thought there was like a body behind a tree trunk or something yeah i thought. 01:45:26 Speaker 1: He's going dark you know Like, I just stepped on something squishy and I don't like it. That's not what he's talking about. Just being greeted in the morning in the turkey woods by that cardinal, just ambitious. And they're beautiful. Compare that to some bronco drinking out of some dried up water hole, stepping over the dead bodies of big desert bighorns. What do you think ought to win? 01:45:54 Speaker 2: You're going to be in a real pickle when we got Colts versus Broncos. Then what? 01:46:00 Speaker 4: Tie it. 01:46:01 Speaker 1: I'll tell you, but I'm not going to spoil it. So that's who needs to win this. I'm not telling you who's going to win. A Cardinal needs to win. Okay. 01:46:08 Speaker 3: Go Cardinals. 01:46:09 Speaker 1: It's just a better creature. 01:46:11 Speaker 2: One app, every sport, all 50 states. New DraftKings customers sign up with code MEATEATER. Spend just five bucks. Get 200 in rewards within 21 days. Includes all markets. That's code MEATEATER. In partnership with DraftKings, thanks again to DraftKings for sponsoring today's segment. 01:46:28 Speaker 8: Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. 01:46:30 Speaker 1: 1-800-MY-RESET. 01:46:31 Speaker 8: Connecticut, call 888-789-7777. Visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas, FedTax pass-through may apply in Illinois, 21 and over, void in Canada. Bet with DraftKings Sportsbook to get bonus bets that expire in seven days or trade with DraftKings Predictions to get predictions dollars that expire in one year. Event contract trading involves risk of loss. Predictions offer void in New York. Non-withdrawable rewards issued as $ 50 click to claims every seven days for 14 days. Terms at dkng.co slash offer. Limited time offer. Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability. 01:47:00 Speaker 4: Varies by state. 01:47:02 Speaker 1: All right, everybody. See you next week on the news show. Thanks for joining. 01:47:04 Speaker 6: We'll be right back.