00:00:03 Speaker 1: Smell us now, lady, welcome to metast. 00:00:25 Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to Meet Eater Radio Live. It's eleven am here at Media HQ and Bozeman. That's one pm in my hometown of Edinburgh, Pennsylvania, where archery season. Archery white tail season is now open for all you bow guys and crossbow guys. Yeah, arrow guns we call them. I'm your host, Brody. I'm joined today by the only person who occasionally threatens my total domination of mediator trivia, Randall Williams. You beat me yesterday. 00:00:56 Speaker 3: And what's that It's not really a spoiler. I mean not really if someone's expecting it already. 00:01:10 Speaker 2: We've also got Jordan Siller's Uh he's our very own expert on all things firearms, aren't you? 00:01:18 Speaker 3: I do my best? 00:01:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, I read your stuff. 00:01:20 Speaker 4: It's goods. 00:01:21 Speaker 2: This week, we've got a couple of great interviews Versus about a huge public access win here in Montana. And we're also going to be talking to that you like this, Jordan, We're gonna be talking to someone about shooting great big game animals with little dinky rifle cartridges. And uh, first, since this is white tail week at Meat Eater, Uh, when we celebrate all things white tail hunting. We're also going to share uh some white tail buck stuff, a throwback Thursday, and and a white tail dream hunt deal that we're going to talk about. Uh speaking of white Tail Week, which is brought to you by by our friends at sigsur. Not only do we have deals across all the media to brands, including up to forty percent off at first Light, and there's great deals on the Mediator website too, we're also dropping a steady supply of fresh whitetail content. We're running a real fun competition to decide which state is the best whitetail hunting state. You can go check that out at the mediater dot com. Go check out first light dot com to get yourself outfitted for like all the different conditions you're going to run into during three four months of white tail season. So like there's something there you're gonna find that you need, and you don't even have to be a white tail hunter. Take advantage of this sale. There's all there's like all kinds of all purpose stuff on sale at first Light too and again discounted mercht at the mediater dot com. So get on there. How long is this thing go on till Sunday. 00:02:58 Speaker 4: That would be a good question. 00:03:00 Speaker 2: I think you got a couple few more days to take advantage of it. 00:03:03 Speaker 5: It's all over the web stever here, he'd go, Come on, Randall, Yeah, he wouldn't know either, though. 00:03:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 00:03:10 Speaker 2: I mean, we're busy doing this stuff. We can't keep track of everything, and we're so busy that we're gonna skip the chit chat today because we have a lot of a lot we're going to cover and in place of chit chat, real quick, Jordan, you haven't been on the show that much, so introduce yourself sure, and tell everyone real quick about your the crazy new podcast you're doing. 00:03:32 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:03:32 Speaker 6: Absolutely, Yeah, I'm Jordan Sillers. I'm a managing editor for the website and then I also help Cal with his podcast, Cal's Week in Review. Starting up a new podcast. We launched a pilot episode in March that you may have seen. It's called Blood Trails. It's a true crime podcast about hunters, anglers, campers, hikers, you know, everyone sort of in our world and really excited about it. We have eight episod so it's coming out in this first season. We have a story of a hunter who disappeared under very suspicious circumstances. We have a story of a hunter who was found stabbed seventeen times and the medical examiner ruled a suicide. 00:04:19 Speaker 2: So that's Randa, Where were you during that time? 00:04:21 Speaker 4: Yeah, i'd have to know. I need the details because I was not involved. Noted noted. 00:04:29 Speaker 6: There's a story of a hunter who was shot with his own rifle. Uh, and there's thoughts about whether it was someone close to him who may have done it. So lots of really interesting stories. We think it's you know, we hope people like it and we're really excited. 00:04:44 Speaker 2: Oh man, I mean, of course they're gonna like it. Like the true crime genre is like bananas these days, and and I think you've already got like the hunting crowd locked in, So you need to market this to like suburban soccer moms who there you go spend their time watching true crime? Well, hey on Netflix. 00:05:01 Speaker 6: Right listen if if you love me eater content and you've always wanted to get your wife to watch or listen to me eater content, Yeah, this is this is for you. You know, you guys can do this together. I feel like I'm just bringing you know, strengthening relationships. 00:05:15 Speaker 5: Do this every time I get into Sydney's car to go somewhere with her. As soon as the cars powered on, it's just immediately then he plunged the dagger in up. 00:05:28 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:05:29 Speaker 6: And one thing I just wanted to say, so, speaking of the true crime genre, a lot of it out there is you know, it's it's someone they read some new stories, they read Wikipedia and that's and then they kind of chat about it. This is not that, this is original reporting. I talked to the people, Yeah, I mean, I talked to the people who were involved, as long as they're willing to talk to me, the family of the victim, the law enforcement who investigated it, and we tell you things that no one else has reported before. 00:05:57 Speaker 5: And I will say too, like the the genre occasionally leans into like the lurid, sure voyeuristic, and this is very much not that. It's very much like straightforward, empathetic reporting about pretty tragic situation. 00:06:14 Speaker 2: I just gave Jordan a lead today or yesterday on something that maybe someday will end up in the podcast. 00:06:21 Speaker 4: We'll see. 00:06:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to say any more about that. 00:06:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see. 00:06:25 Speaker 6: I'm looking into it. 00:06:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, guys, we're gonna move on because we got a bunch to talk about today. For our first interview today, we've got Mike Coutz. I hope I pronounce that right. Mike is the vice president of Access and Infrastructure at American Prairie, which was formerly American Prairie Reserve. They recently simplified it and they're just American Prairie now. I hope I'm getting that right. Anyway, American Prairie is an organization with a goal restoring and preserving short grasp prairie ecosystems in central in northern Montana. It's an ecosystem that's kind of suffering all over the country, and these guys are doing a lot of good work here in Montana and a big part of that plan they're what they might be known for the best is re establishing wild bison populations in that part of Montana. We've got Mike on the line, Phil, here's Mike. Mike. Hey, guys, thanks for joining us today. Having us to start out, just give folks like the real quick version of who American Prairie is, what they do and how they operate as far as acquiring property to build into this collection of hopefully interconnected shortcrass prairie landscapes. 00:07:51 Speaker 7: Sure, sure so. 00:07:52 Speaker 1: American Prairie is a Montana based nonprofit. We've been around for over twenty years now, and as you mentioned, our goal is. 00:08:01 Speaker 7: To and our work is to. 00:08:04 Speaker 1: Buy and acquire land that we manage for public access and for wildlife habitat along the Missouri Breaks and the Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge, so that eventually we have enough habitat to restore and intact prairie short grass ecosystem. And we work on a willing buyer, willing selling, willing seller model, and we've done I think over fifty land transactions at this point, and. 00:08:35 Speaker 2: How many total acres, Mike. 00:08:38 Speaker 1: Right now we're sitting in about six hundred and three thousand acres. 00:08:42 Speaker 2: Of deeta in the leased land just a little bit. 00:08:47 Speaker 7: It's a lot of driving that. 00:08:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, my favorite part of the state up there where you guys are working. Now. You mentioned that it's a willing seller, willing buyer situations when you're acquiring these properties, but I'd kind of be remiss to like not address the fact that up in that part of Montana there's like a certain group of people, like not everyone, but like there's definitely like some pushback from some of the locals in that part of the state about what you guys are doing, and I just want to give you a chance to speak to that and let us know what's going on with that. 00:09:30 Speaker 7: Yeah. 00:09:30 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think any big conservation project is not without controversy, and we're certainly no exception to that. So when you drive in that part of the state, you'll see save the Cowboys, Stop American Praiority signs. 00:09:44 Speaker 7: Those are produced. 00:09:45 Speaker 1: By United Property Owners of Montana, which I encourage anyone listening to this and folks who are from outside the state and trying to study up on this, you can just go to their website and see what they see, what they're about. And some of this is simply, you know, a disagreement over how you manage landscape, and some of it is I think concern over you know, changes you know in the region, and some of it it's just that we're new, you know again, twenty years in Montana is an eyeblink and so some of it's just been we've had to go out there and earn trust, say what we're going to do, and then back that up with action, and so I think what you find is we go out, you talk to our over the fence neighbors, you talk to the more than sixty ranchers in the region that we partner with on leasing grass or working through our wild Sky program. 00:10:49 Speaker 7: Together, you find that actually we have great relationships. 00:10:53 Speaker 1: And I think you know head on, we are not the enemy of Montana agriculture. 00:11:00 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I mean. 00:11:01 Speaker 1: Agriculture does great. The reason that we can do this in this part of the world is because all of the good stewardship that Montana ranchers have carried out for generations on this landscape. And often we find that we actually have the same goal, which is that we're hoping that and working to have this landscape look much like it does right now. Slightly different methods there sometimes, but at the end of the day, we want this place to you know, as you're saying, it is one of the most spectacular parts not only Montana, but the entire United States, and we'll all work in to make sure it stays that way. 00:11:36 Speaker 2: And something I'll point out is that on like I'm not sure like what percentage of the acreage this is true on, but there's still cattle ranching going on on some of your properties. 00:11:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again that's you know, I think, you know, when folks say, hey, there's controversy around this, a lot of that controversy is coming from a lack of understanding of what we actually do. So, you know, we're sometimes get cast as like these bison folks who want wild bison everywhere. We manage our bison as livestock, so we disease test them. They're contained behind fences. They're not wild, free roaming bison. They're an important part of conserving them as a species, but they're not wild and free roaming. And we have about eight hundred and fifty bison right now on two properties. 00:12:31 Speaker 7: We have over seven thousand cattle on our properties. So most of our properties, the grazer that does. 00:12:40 Speaker 1: That role in the ecosystem, you know, which again is a really important one, is cattle. And again, I was listening to Cal on the Joe Rogan podcast this week while I was driving, and it was awesome to hear him talking in front of such a huge audience about the value of prairies and that prairies globally are disappearing faster than any other ecosystem, and we have one of the best chances to set aside and protect some of our remaining grasslands anywhere in the world, right here in Montana. And so hearing him talk to Joe about that was awesome. And yet even cal who again, I mean, he's he's here in Montana, you know, had a couple of bits of misinformation about American prairie. 00:13:23 Speaker 7: You know, our our. 00:13:24 Speaker 1: Money doesn't come from the Dutch. Ninety seven percent is from within the United States. And our bison don't come from Yellowstone. They came from Elk Island to Canada. And uh, and we've done trades with some of our tribal neighbors who have Yellowstone genetics in their herd. 00:13:39 Speaker 7: But but again I think that's and not to give cal a hard time, because. 00:13:42 Speaker 2: No, no, we'll make sure he hears this, for sure. 00:13:46 Speaker 7: We don't. 00:13:46 Speaker 4: We don't let go any chance to correct cal On. 00:13:51 Speaker 1: Oh well you can, you can tell me shanked it on that one. 00:13:54 Speaker 7: He's just a mess, But he's a good guy. 00:13:56 Speaker 2: He'll acknowledged that he got wrong and make a correction. 00:14:00 Speaker 1: But uh, but you know, I think it just speaks to look, you know, here's somebody who's really well educated on conservation in Montana and around the US, but still had some of you know, these sort of persistent you know, miss misinformation about what we actually do, and a lot of that's on us, Like we can to make. 00:14:19 Speaker 7: Sure we're out here talking to folks. 00:14:24 Speaker 1: You know, we're a bunch of Montana's We're a Montana nonprofit buying land, opening up to public access, managing it for wildlife. 00:14:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's talk about that. I mean, one of the great things about American Prairie is that most, if not I'm not sure if it's all of your properties, but most of the properties are open to public access for recreational purposes, which you know, it could be hiking, wildlife viewing. I think you guys have a campground. There's fishing opportunities, and there's hunting opportunities. American Prairie runs a lottery, but for several bison hunting opportunities. 00:15:03 Speaker 8: Uh. 00:15:04 Speaker 2: Randall's wife last year took advantage of that and got herself. Got herself was a great She sat a big bold no. 00:15:12 Speaker 1: No. 00:15:12 Speaker 4: She she had one of the yearling. 00:15:14 Speaker 2: Oh, she had one of. 00:15:14 Speaker 4: The yearling tags. 00:15:15 Speaker 5: But honestly, the one of the coolest, wildest hunting experiences of my life. 00:15:20 Speaker 2: You guys still eating that thing? 00:15:21 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, nice, Yeah, we just got the hide back. 00:15:24 Speaker 2: So beyond the bison thing, like, you can go on these properties and hunt small game, upland birds, waterfowl, big game through Montana's Block Management program, which is a public access to private land program. It's like one of the best programs and if not the best program of that type in the entire country as far as I'm concerned. So, like, I mean, if you're an outdoorsman, you should just be like supporting this. I think it's a very good opportunity, which leads us to kind of the latest big story that involves American prairie. So Mike tell us about Bullwhacker Road, the Wilkes brothers and your your latest acquisition and why it's such an important public access win for all kinds of outdoors enthusiasts, including hunters. 00:16:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this has been one of the things we've been most excited about over the last couple of years. 00:16:26 Speaker 4: Here. 00:16:27 Speaker 1: We closed on a property called the Anchor Ranch that's on the north side of the Missouri River about seventy miles southeast to have her on the high line and sixty six thousand acres of deeded and least land. But most importantly the deeded land includes a four mile section of the Bullwhacker Road that was you know, in and out of court. You know, Brett French from the Billings Gazad has done some awesome reporting on this. Anyone who's really interested in this kind of stuff can look up his articles. But essentially, you had a four mile section a row that was landlocking over fifty thousand acres of public land, mostly BLM few state sections in there. And normally when we when we buy a property, we take about a year to figure out all the public access and you know, to do a full review of it. This we were so excited about this we opened. 00:17:20 Speaker 7: The road right away. 00:17:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, and said, look, you know this, this one's too important to you know, sit on for a year. 00:17:26 Speaker 7: We're going to open it at least this section. 00:17:30 Speaker 1: And it's it's just one of the most historic parts of the Northern Great Plains too, and has a fascinating history. It's you know, part of the Cow Creek which runs through part of the property was part of the Nez Perce Trail, so where Chief Joseph led his people up from the Missouri River and the ford where they crossed on foot up. 00:17:49 Speaker 7: Into the Bears Paw Mountains, the Bullwhacker Road. 00:17:52 Speaker 1: I mean it's named that because there were guys, you know, whipping bowls up out of the Missouri River because a lot of years the steamboats from Saint Louis only get up to about that point. So incredible history and just an incredible landscape. You know, whether it's in hunting season or whether it's in the spring, you go down in there, I mean, it's just you know. 00:18:11 Speaker 7: An absolute maze of coolies. 00:18:13 Speaker 1: And prairie canyons, and you know, an incredible place to get lost and to go explore. 00:18:20 Speaker 2: And again again like this, this will now open up fifty thousand acres of what was landlocked public land. 00:18:30 Speaker 1: Correct, yep, exactly, And so I mean again, a lot of your listeners have probably seen on X and Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnerships reports on landlocked public land around the country, and there's millions of acres, and you know, one of our goals with property purchases is to look at those ones where you know, boy, if we bought that deed, it it opens up this amount of public land too. You know, we a couple of years ago we bought one on the Muscleshell called the seventy three that had ten thousand acres landlocked by I mean it was essentially one hundred feet. 00:19:05 Speaker 2: Of two tracks across the Yeah. 00:19:08 Speaker 7: So wherever possible we do that. 00:19:10 Speaker 1: And yeah, as you mentioned, you know, the vast majority of our dataed acres are open to public access year round. 00:19:17 Speaker 5: And Mike that when that seventy three ranch sold, I mean, I know there was an attempt to buy the by the BLM, I believe to acquire it. They were unable to given the sort of strictures around federal land acquisitions. But someone was going to buy that land, right like, like that property was for sale, someone was going to buy it. And so in this case, because American Prairie was the buyer, all that landlocked public land is now open to the public in addition to the access that you guys provide through block management. 00:19:48 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's just a big win. 00:19:49 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:19:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:19:50 Speaker 1: And both of those properties too are examples of you know, large properties that were formerly owned by out of state owners, largely as either private hunting properties or as you know, amenity properties or investments and so you know, again we think a Montana based nonprofit now owning them, now managing it for public access and for wildlife habitat. 00:20:15 Speaker 7: I mean, that's that's a net positive. 00:20:18 Speaker 1: I'm sitting in the room having given a presentation last week where I was showing these, you know, these charts for what the growth of populations in Montana have done over the last couple of years since COVID. I mean, we're sitting here at Bozeman and see that, you know, it's grown by eighty six percent in the Gallatin Valley. 00:20:36 Speaker 2: This is supposed to be good news, Mike. 00:20:39 Speaker 1: Well, so here's the other, you know, to set up the good news. This is what public land you know, has done. It's essentially flat. Yeah, not only flat, but I mean cal has done such an incredible job at all of you you know, at meat eater, backcountry hunters and anglers in fighting the efforts to sell off public land recently. But so not only have we not been created more public land necessarily, you know, we've even had you know, proposals to sell it off. So I think that's part of the bigger, bigger world in which we operate is Look, we are trying our hardest to shift that a little bit, you know, because we as a species, we certainly are making more people more of ourselves, we're not necessarily, you know, doing as much to create more good, publicly accessible land. 00:21:26 Speaker 7: And that's a big. 00:21:27 Speaker 1: Part of what gets me up every day and into the office and out in the field. 00:21:32 Speaker 2: Yeah. So got asked, new property, is it open to hunting? 00:21:40 Speaker 7: Not this year? 00:21:41 Speaker 1: This is yhere. We got to take it to h And as you were saying, you know, b M A contracts, generally we finalize those in May or June. 00:21:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it just wasn't the timing wasn't right. 00:21:52 Speaker 7: Exactly exactly. 00:21:53 Speaker 1: So I'd say, stay tuned, you know, we'll have a public access you know policy. I'd say by by next summer and certainly by the next hunting season. 00:22:03 Speaker 2: So but what about but the road is open, road is open, Okay. 00:22:08 Speaker 1: So so folks can access all of the BLM and state land to the south. And also I'll just give my usual safety plug, like don't drive your minivan down in there, don't take the Corolla. 00:22:21 Speaker 4: Watch the weather forecast. 00:22:23 Speaker 7: Watch the weather forecast. Right now. 00:22:25 Speaker 1: I just had a meeting with some of the BLM monument folks this week and they were saying, there's a there's a VW s u V rented from the Billings Airport that's been sitting down in there. 00:22:36 Speaker 7: Since about May. 00:22:38 Speaker 1: It's nice and they couldn't get it out, so it's it's rugged. 00:22:43 Speaker 7: You know, you got to do your homework before you drive down in there. 00:22:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, don't even try if it's going to rain or snow. It's good advice, I think, Mike, before we let you go, thanks for all this really is good news. Can you pull out your crystal ball and kind of give us an idea of what we can expect from American prayer kind of in the near future and and kind of layout like what best case scenario, end goal would be for you guys. 00:23:16 Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely so. 00:23:18 Speaker 1: I think again, we recognize, hey, being around for twenty years, you know, we're still earning trust. And that goes for you know, the general public, It goes for ranchers, it goes for hunters, it goes for you know, folks who are just curious about, you know, what this thing is. 00:23:35 Speaker 7: They've heard of. 00:23:36 Speaker 1: So I'd say continue to look to us to you know, illustrate our or to underwrite our words. With deeds, you know, in terms of public access, you know, I used to get questions like, hey, are you guys, you know, is this some sort of bait and switch. Are you guys just offering public access? And then you're going to like lock. 00:23:54 Speaker 2: The gates up, right, That's something I'm absolutely not. 00:23:57 Speaker 1: Like, we buy properties that have conservation easements on them. This year, we donated one hundred and nine acres to the state of Montana to create a state park at Judith Landing. You know, we open previously landlocked public land across our deeded roads and then assume the costs of maintaining those roads. So I'd say, continue to judge us on what we do. And you know, I think we often say, look, you know, we're not asking for support or endorsement, you know. 00:24:25 Speaker 7: Do your homework, come to your own conclusion. 00:24:27 Speaker 1: But we do ask for understanding, like just just understand what we're actually doing. And in terms of public access, yeah, I think it's probably going to look a lot like what you see right now, where you know, we're in the top ten largest landowners in the state enrolled in that block management access program with FVP, They're an incredible agency to work with for your listeners outside the state. I mean, Montana is truly the last best place I think as an outdoors person and as a hunter in particular. 00:24:55 Speaker 7: So it's a lot of it. 00:24:56 Speaker 1: You know, it's over eighty thousand acres available to hunt in that program. We're building a couple more backcountry huts in our huts system over the next two years, so you'll see more of those and just more chances to explore different parts of the prairie. Those have you've been up there, know that you know some of it. It's like incredibly steep, rugged Missouri breaks, ponderosa pines, kind of bighorn sheep habitat, and then you get out on other parts and it's kind of the rolling sagebrush sea, and you know, we want to create opportunities for people to go out and explore that and understand why this place is so special and so worth. 00:25:33 Speaker 7: Protecting and handing on to the next generation. 00:25:36 Speaker 2: Cool. What can people do to support you if they're interested in doing. 00:25:40 Speaker 1: That, I'd say, you know, hey, from my standpoint, it's come out and visit us. You can come out and see what it looks like on the ground, and you can plan a trip by just going to our website, American Prairie dot org. We do have campgrounds, we have huts, but you can also just go out and load up your backpack and walk off, you know, you know, and and spend the night. So I just encourage people to go up there and make a visit and put your name in the hat for the bison harvest we offer. 00:26:09 Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, I've done it so far. I'm having drawn Mike, so, you know, just saying just saying, thanks a lot, Mike, it was great talking to you. We'll have to check back in with you, you know, and if something's happening, get in touch with us and and we'll talk again. 00:26:27 Speaker 7: We'll do we'll do all right. Thanks man, We'll see you guys. 00:26:33 Speaker 2: Okay, it's time to move on to some white Tail week stuff. We're gonna do a throwback Thursday white Tail edition. 00:26:41 Speaker 1: Go back on. 00:26:42 Speaker 5: A Thursday, Mom, Stephen Rody, take me back to night. 00:26:52 Speaker 2: I can't believe it. Did I mentioned Stephen Rody Old Ship. I think you've mentioned that, Yeah, several times. 00:27:01 Speaker 4: I think. 00:27:03 Speaker 2: All right, guys, this is where we're gonna We're gonna pull out the the memories today and let you guys share some some white tail stuff with us. I think you're up first, Randall already. 00:27:15 Speaker 5: Phil, Oh, yes, I'll point out this picture is colored very strangely. It's an archaic digital camera. It captures my skin tone and blaze orange in a really weird way. But that blood trail on the right, oh yeah, real nice. This This, this is my biggest whitetail buck. I was working construction at the time in two thousand and eight, and I was going to go down to a property in Kentucky that we had permission to hunt. And on Friday, I was at the job site, had my truck all loaded up, and they pulled me aside and told me I was getting let go. And as soon as as soon as they handed me my Cobra paperwork for poor performance No. 00:28:03 Speaker 7: No. 00:28:04 Speaker 5: Two thousand and eight, man, oh, I got yeah. It was a big slowdown. So they I said, you know, I'm twenty two. I think it'll be fine, and I'm going deer hunting. So my buddy went down there and hunted with me the first weekend. I just stayed through the week, and then he came down for the second weekend and on day there's probably like day nine This is what I mean. This is my idea of whitetail hunting. Was just I'm gonna sit in the same tree for like eight days, nine days in a row. I had a little crotchboard set up there, and at some point, like my buddy was just going to walk across the property at about ten or eleven o'clock. Yeah, it's it's like a hilltop property that's sort of balled on top, and then like real dense stuff going down these fingers down to the creek. So my buddy went across and I could hear him walking, and then all of a sudden, this buck. I'm basic set up on an old tractor road, like an old tractor path going down this hill, and this buck just crosses, and so I whip around and shoot off the back of the tree as he's about to dive back into the woods, and he turns and runs straight away from me, and I got off another shot. Sort of ironic that we're talking Tyler here in a bit, because that was with a forty five seventy shooting. 00:29:24 Speaker 2: Uh, because Ohio is well this shotguns and straight walls, this is this is Kentucky. Oh that was Kentucky. 00:29:30 Speaker 4: I got you. 00:29:31 Speaker 5: Well, it's just because the romance of the big straight wall carches the size of your finger and turns out that first shot missed, but that second one the trick did the old did the old Texas heart shot very good, entered just inside of the ham right near the anus, came out the front of that left hip and uh, yeah it. 00:29:55 Speaker 2: Was now it happened. That's not a shot that we would reckon men here at meat Eater. But Randall is like such a marksman. 00:30:04 Speaker 4: Well that was a follow up. 00:30:07 Speaker 6: I know, we don't really think that. 00:30:10 Speaker 7: Yeah, and. 00:30:12 Speaker 5: You know we went over there and and actually the the landowner who was their scout masters showed up like right then, and he's he's British and doesn't I mean, he was just excited to have us hunting there and. 00:30:22 Speaker 4: Oh you got a buck, you got a book, let's see it. 00:30:25 Speaker 5: And he drove the tractor down and we chained up to the he like just fixed up antique tractors. 00:30:30 Speaker 4: Then we hauled that thing up out of the bottom and that was all. She wrote. 00:30:34 Speaker 2: That's still your biggest buck to date, biggest whitetail buck it is. Yeah, where where is that? What's where is that? 00:30:40 Speaker 3: Thing. 00:30:40 Speaker 4: Now. Oh, it's I've got in my home office. 00:30:43 Speaker 5: I've got like nine deer heads just kind of scattered on the little wall above it. 00:30:49 Speaker 4: Yeah. Youro mount. That's a homemade ero mount too nice. 00:30:52 Speaker 5: So yeah, nice fun place. I wish I still uh got to hunt that every year because yeah, deer in the rut with a rifle. 00:31:01 Speaker 4: Yep, speaks to me. 00:31:03 Speaker 2: All right, Jordan, you're up next. Let's see what you got here. 00:31:06 Speaker 3: All right. 00:31:07 Speaker 6: So this isn't from super long ago. This is a few years ago. This was out of property pretty near to where we live in East Texas, and I really like it. It's I don't own it, but we have permission to hunt it, and I like it because it's so close to our house. I can take the kids, you know, evening Sunday evening, which is when I shot this buck. And I also like remembering this hunt because it was I don't think it was quite the last day of the season, but it was the last day that I was gonna hunt. I think it was right before the last day, and this buck came in like five minutes maybe before shooting light ended. If if he'd been in the tree line I was looking at in the stand. I might not have you know, been able to see him, but he came in across a field and so I could see a silhouette, you know, against the the sky that was still bright. And in Texas we have antler restrictions, so it has to be thirteen inches between. And I saw him, you know, silhouetted against the sky, and I said, looks good. It looks looks like it's going to be good. So shot him from maybe fifty yards it was not a far shot with with a six or five creed more and he went, you know, maybe forty or fifty yards, but he ran kind of into the tree line, and so there was a little bit of tension. And my son was with me and he you know, if hunting ever becomes boring or you know, kind of a drudgery, like take an eight year old boy, you know with you. Because he was the most stickxcited. 00:32:44 Speaker 4: He was high five. 00:32:46 Speaker 5: Was that the first deer had been a part of it? 00:32:49 Speaker 6: Was Yeah, he'd been around when I'd brought deer home to like, you know, clean him and butcher them. But this was the first one, the first hunt that he'd been a part of. 00:32:57 Speaker 3: Is he now, is he hot? 00:32:58 Speaker 8: Now he is. 00:32:59 Speaker 6: Yeah, he got he got a doe last year. 00:33:01 Speaker 2: Oh great, yeah, great. 00:33:02 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:33:03 Speaker 6: So he came down with, you know, with me, and I like wanted to do it right, like find some blood, follow the trail, but he just like right into the woods, you know, and of course he found it first, and just like that's excited. 00:33:14 Speaker 2: Yeah that's okay, Well cool, you get you gonna get him after a buck this year? 00:33:19 Speaker 6: He yeah, he wants to. Yeah that's for sure, but we'll see, all. 00:33:24 Speaker 2: Right, guess that leaves me. This is when was this like, I. 00:33:31 Speaker 4: Don't know, mid two thousands, A little. 00:33:33 Speaker 3: No, it's like same, same camera quality as similar right. 00:33:38 Speaker 2: Around the same time as would you say, oh wait. 00:33:40 Speaker 5: Yeah, I bet this camera ran on a double a battery. 00:33:43 Speaker 6: Yes. 00:33:44 Speaker 2: Anyway, this is back in Pennsylvania where like this is a place I grew up hunting. This my buddy buddy's dad's land. My buddy's dad has now passed away, but my buddy still hunts his property. 00:33:57 Speaker 5: And this this was. 00:34:00 Speaker 2: The first like big nice buck I had ever shot in Pennsylvania. Grew up deer hunting. But like when I was growing up, man like there just wasn't very many big bucks around like this one. They just didn't live long enough. We would see a shit ton of deer hunting, but it would be like twenty two does and a spike in a day of hunting, and like you just shot whatever buck you had a chance to shoot. This picture was taken I think maybe a couple years after they the state implemented Antler point restrictions. In Pennsylvania's Antler point restrictions aren't like. 00:34:43 Speaker 4: With like Texas. 00:34:44 Speaker 2: It's at the time it was most of the state was three on one side, and this in northwestern Pennsylvania it was three on one side plus a brow time and a lot of guys were like very against this new regulation at the time, but it really started paying off quickly, Like you know, a percentage like of those year and a half old bucks, a large percentage of those year and a half old bucks that would have gotten shot now had a chance to at least get to another year. And now in Pennsylvania, like they're killing big bucks, which was just not a thing that happened very often when I was a kid. So yeah, that's like my one and only nice big Pennsylvania buck there. 00:35:35 Speaker 1: Nice. 00:35:36 Speaker 6: The same thing happened in Texas where people were very against the Antler restrictions. 00:35:40 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:35:40 Speaker 6: First and now you talk to pretty much everyone and they say it was a good thing. Yeah, you know, we're seeing a lot more big deer. 00:35:45 Speaker 2: It works. Some places, it doesn't work others they've like Colorado tried it with mule deer. It was just like it didn't work, just like it was a failed experiment. But like it's definitely worked in Pennsylvania. All right, Phil, do we got some action in the chat? 00:36:03 Speaker 3: Got a lot of action. Oh geez, I'm being less picky about my questions here since getting so many complaints about it. 00:36:12 Speaker 2: Leland. 00:36:13 Speaker 3: I've heard you ask this question, I think for a month now, so I'm just gonna bring it up. Let's get it out of the way. What are the functional differences between alpaca and marino wool? If any, if any of you can speak to this. 00:36:23 Speaker 2: This question should be directed to the experts at first light. 00:36:27 Speaker 4: Yeah, this sounds like yeah, why I question? 00:36:32 Speaker 3: Sorry, Leland, thanks for being here. 00:36:34 Speaker 4: Never tried out packa socks. 00:36:37 Speaker 3: Here we go. Question for Randall and the chat regarding hot dogs? Anyone made Venison hot dogs? Have you done this? Randall? 00:36:43 Speaker 4: Tips? 00:36:44 Speaker 5: If not? Steve and I were just talking yesterday about making a video trying to make the best venison hot dog. 00:36:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, close as I've come is making brats you do. 00:36:54 Speaker 5: I mean, my understanding is that you do truly to address the last sentence there. You do truly have to emulsify it, just make it into goo. The tough thing is going to be the snap. So we're we're discussing that yesterday. You want a good, a good positive snap on the dog. But we will hopefully address this in a video at some point. 00:37:17 Speaker 3: Cool uh Ian asks on the heels of the CLBD podcast, how often do you guys get your deer and elk tested? I get them all or there with signs on the animal, cause I've just gone to get. 00:37:29 Speaker 2: Them all tested. 00:37:30 Speaker 7: Man. 00:37:33 Speaker 2: And in some places, like where I'm gonna hunt in Colorado this year, it's mandatory. In other places it's a voluntary. But I've just like I got, I just get them all tested. 00:37:44 Speaker 5: Now, I just I test them when they're required. And uh obviously like in Montana here we have big game checkpoints and so they sort of catch you in a funnel to track animals moving across the state. And so at some of those still test, But yeah, I haven't. I don't think I've ever voluntarily submitted something for testing. 00:38:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you had kids, proud of that, if you had kids, you might. 00:38:11 Speaker 8: Look at it. 00:38:11 Speaker 4: Or if I valued my own health. 00:38:14 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's not. 00:38:15 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a joke. That's a joke. 00:38:18 Speaker 2: I know, Jordan, you doing that down and those Texans just care. 00:38:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't. 00:38:26 Speaker 3: Well. 00:38:27 Speaker 6: Our our CWD problem, you know, tends to be with the breeding facilities. 00:38:32 Speaker 2: Well, it's like that everywhere. I mean when you look at like the spread a map from like the US I think it's the USGS. Maybe it's fish and wildlife. I don't know, but you can look at a map and see where these outbreaks start and it's like almost guarantee that in the center of that thing, Yeah, there's a high fence. 00:38:50 Speaker 6: Yeah, and there are I know, there are areas where the wild population, you know, there is a problem, and there may be mandatory testing there, but not where where I'm hunting. 00:39:01 Speaker 3: So, speaking of kids, question for Brody and Jordan. Adam's taking a six year old daughter on her first hunt this weekend, DIY blind in the woods. Do I let her try and shoot or just sit and watch me do it. I want to give her a good experience. 00:39:15 Speaker 2: There's too many unknowns here, like has she practiced, has she put in the time, does she want to? Does she want to? Has she been exposed to it at all yet? 00:39:30 Speaker 3: I what hunt? 00:39:31 Speaker 2: I'm assuming deer, but I don't know. I'm assuming it's a deer from in my opinion, like you see a lot of pictures of five six year old kids like holding the buck up. In my opinion, it's a little too early simply because they don't really know what they're doing. They like don't understand it yet. It's not that you can't set them up with a rifle that'll work and stuff like that. So I would probably do the shooting and see how she reacts if she hasn't had any exposure to it yet. 00:40:09 Speaker 6: Jordan, Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. And you know, if you get something that's plenty of excitement for us, sure. 00:40:15 Speaker 2: And walk walk through the skin and in the gut and all like all that stuff tends to like as long as you don't be like this is going to be a little gross, like don't do any of that, Just like do it, and they're probably going to be fascinated. 00:40:29 Speaker 3: But yeah, Jackson asks, do you think the same arguments against crossbows aka arrow guns, according to Rody, should be applied to the use of TSS turkey loads and long range rifles. Never used a crossbow, but I've always thought that the hate was odd. I agree. 00:40:44 Speaker 2: I don't get the hate. What's he talking about turkey loads? 00:40:51 Speaker 4: Yeah, like the super No, Like there's. 00:40:53 Speaker 2: Like no way. They're just like like you're arguing against being more effective at killing turkeys, Like I don't. I don't agree with that, and I don't think there's like any possible way you could. 00:41:06 Speaker 4: Like turn back the clock, turn back the clock. 00:41:09 Speaker 2: And the long range rifles, it's like like I don't see how you could even come up with an enforceable regulation. 00:41:17 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the only thing, the only thing that I'm familiar with is the Idaho restriction on you can't have a rifle heavier than sixteen pounds. I had no idea, and I do have a rifle that what doesn't mean that Idaho right restriction? 00:41:34 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, but no, I should really own rifle. 00:41:39 Speaker 2: But I agree, like the arguments like against crossbows, like I just don't get it. Like everybody's like, oh, this sky's falling, all the deer are going to get killed. Like, why you can go hunt elk with a crossbow as far as I know in Wyoming during archery season and like there hasn't been like any change there's and there's still plenty of white tails where crossbows are eagle. 00:42:00 Speaker 8: Like. 00:42:00 Speaker 3: I don't get the. 00:42:01 Speaker 6: Hate, but whatever. 00:42:03 Speaker 5: Some some bow hunters, I'd rather that they have a crossbow, sure for the sake of the animals. 00:42:09 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I know there's people other people here at Meteor that probably wouldn't agree. 00:42:15 Speaker 4: With the cross both. 00:42:16 Speaker 5: I started hunting with a crossbow because I didn't have like an archery background. My parents didn't hunt, but I was. They were encouraging and you could go out and get a crossbow and you knew how to site it in and yeah we're drilling deer at you know, fifty yards and super effective. 00:42:35 Speaker 4: Yeah what do you think? 00:42:37 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I agree, it's you know, fears of all the deer being gone definitely overblown. I think if you've spent you know, hours and hours trying to shoot a compound bow accurately and then someone comes in with the crossbow, I I do understand that, but you could say the same. 00:42:55 Speaker 2: You could say this like the trad bow guys could say the same exact thing, like those pound guys. It's so easy. They got sites and all. Like it's just a never ending cascade of arguments method of take arguments that end up just being horseshit. 00:43:09 Speaker 6: As far as far as I'm concerned, Yeah, yeah, I think the the whatever species population that should be the first concern. Yeah, you know, and if that's not a concern, it's maybe not worth getting two worked up about. 00:43:22 Speaker 2: There you go anymore fail. 00:43:24 Speaker 3: I mean, we've had a lot of it. Let's do one more than save the rest for the end of the show, and then any additional one. Since the publishing team is here, when is meat Eater going to come out with a book made for babies? 00:43:34 Speaker 2: I don't I don't think you're gonna see that. Never say never. Maybe Jordan will write one. Oh you're still having babies? 00:43:43 Speaker 6: We have a one and a two year old, man. 00:43:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm like way past that point. 00:43:50 Speaker 8: Man. 00:43:50 Speaker 2: I don't even remember what it was like for my kids. 00:43:52 Speaker 4: To be babies. 00:43:54 Speaker 5: And and I'll just put out there that we know what books were writing until till we die. 00:44:01 Speaker 4: At this point. 00:44:01 Speaker 2: So yeah, not something i'd count on, right. All right, we're all done with those film. 00:44:10 Speaker 3: Well unless you want to keep going, but we can. We've got the end of this time, is it. We're running a little long. 00:44:15 Speaker 2: So let's move on to our next interview. All right, everybody. Our next guest is Tyler Freele, who is a writer for Outdoor Life and he hosts his own podcast called Tundra Talk. And if you didn't catch Tyler on the Meat Eater podcast, we had him on AK I don't know a year like this morning season I think yeah, episode five oh six, you can you can check it out. And if you're not familiar with his work, just like Jordan Siller's here, he has a wealth of knowledge about firearms and rifle cartridges in particular, and that's mostly what we're gonna chat about with him today. Tyler, you on the line, buddy, Yeah, I think so great. Thanks for joining us from up and up in Fairbanks, Alaska. 00:45:05 Speaker 8: I'm in I'm in Wyoming right now. 00:45:06 Speaker 4: Oh man, what do you hunt? 00:45:10 Speaker 7: What do you. 00:45:12 Speaker 8: I shot a nice antelope yesterday. 00:45:13 Speaker 2: Great, I'm about to do that in a week or so before we get into shooting. Great, big animals with teeny little rifle cartes. How'd your moose hunt go? 00:45:23 Speaker 8: Uh, it was pretty disappointing this year. 00:45:26 Speaker 2: That's funny because I heard the same from from other people. It was tough hunt this year up there. 00:45:33 Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I don't people like to blame it on a lot of things. We we spent fourteen days hunting, and the first ten days are kind of in the prime time, and where we hunt, we have to call them. We're just in this swop that you can't there's a couple of spots we can see. 00:45:47 Speaker 2: But you hunt out of a elevated stand, don't you. 00:45:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:45:51 Speaker 8: We we got a big tripod so you can get up over the brush. Otherwise you just just can't see anything. Yeah, And uh, the first ten days basically, you know, we hunt, you know, five six hours in the morning and five six hours in the evening usually, and every time we went and called, we heard multiple bulls. They just would not they just would not come. 00:46:13 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:46:14 Speaker 2: So, as in Alaskan who hunts like like that, getting that moose every year is I'm assuming, kind of important. So, like, how's your winter meat supply looking? And what are you going to do to make up for not getting a bull. 00:46:28 Speaker 8: Well, I'm I think I'm sitting okay for now, we do depend on it, but I like having a little bit of a surplus just the way. You know, I usually killed a bowl every year, and so we at least the the size of my children. Now we aren't consuming the whole thing every year. Oh yeah, we got We've got a fair bit of moose. And then I've got about three to four hundred pounds of black bear meat. There you go, easier that, you know, I make into various Yeah, you. 00:46:57 Speaker 2: Guys really get after those bears. 00:46:59 Speaker 5: Man. 00:47:00 Speaker 8: Yeah, I I I don't know what I love. I I love just kill bears, like I'm a. 00:47:09 Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like you'll make it through the winter without starving. What what I really wanted to have you on today to talk about is is I feel like you've got like a very realistic take on the effect the effectiveness of what many hunters, not all, but a fair amount of hunters considered to be like undersized, underpowered rifle cartridges for big game animals. Like I've kind of always found the hate from like the Magnum, the Magnum crowd for like the six or five creed more in particular to be frankly kind of stupid. I've killed a pile of deering out with six or five creed more and I have nothing but good things to say about it's it's effectiveness. What you know, a lot of white tail and antelope hunters that they aren't strangers to use in smaller rifle cartridges. But you know, you've taken it a step further and proven that these smaller cartridges are capable of like cleanly killing everything from from bears to moose. So, like, talk us through how you got to that point, Like how and why you became kind of like whatever you want to call a small cartridge evangelist. 00:48:28 Speaker 8: Yeah, and whether whether it's by my own choice or not to to that's I guess, I guess where I'm at. 00:48:35 Speaker 7: I I grew up. 00:48:36 Speaker 8: I grew up in southern Colorado for the most part, and you know, it was a lot of twenty five ought six stuff. But even after I moved to Alaska, you know, I I started out with a thirty hot six I'd bought and killed just about everything with it, and then I quickly got really into sheep hunting and a lot of twenty five ought six So I just started shooting everything with that, and uh, you know, family over over many years of hunting up there. You know, my uncle always swore that the two forty three Winchester is one of the best black bear guns, and it just killed piles and piles of black bears with it, and it was just kind of something that I just took as a matter of fact, you know, kill a moose with my twenty five ought six or you know whatever I was using, and you know, in the six or five creed More is kind of its own thing. I was shooting competitively across the course student service rifle when that was introduced, and I kind of thought that sounds like it'd be a good cheap cartridge. And right, a couple of years later, when the first rifle, the first hunting rifle was public was released in it by Ruger. I got one and shot a sheep with it and with a match bullet, and that's cool shots and blacktail deer and kind of moved on. And it was you know, once this six' Five creedmore got, popular you, know then there was this kind of vitriol and responsive hate to, it WHICH i understand a lot of. It that a lot of the annoyance because there are you, know, know quite have been quite a few fairly ignorant opinions on you, know saying that it can do things it can't do right or shouldn't really be used. FOR i mean that's kind of WHERE i got to Where i'm. At and, then you, know over the last you, know we've all seen over the last few, years just the advancement in some of these smaller caliber you, know heavy for heavy for caliber projectiles that are super efficient buck the wind really. Well and So i've started kind of getting further and further And i'm not afraid IF i If i'm do my researching and convinced something will, work, Okay i'm not afraid to try. It. Right so, far the results have been like really really pleasing and and since, starting you, know since working full time for outdoor, LIFE i, mean MY i, SHOOT i shoot a ridiculous, amount and it's just kind of just solidified a lot of points THAT i think a lot of, times you, know we focus on things like cartridge when when there are a lot more important things that are going to contribute to our. 00:51:02 Speaker 2: Success one THING i wanted to ask, you, Like i'm kind of curious how you feel like when you're using say a six five creed more even smaller cartridge and you're shooting like larger game animals maybe not like white tails or you, know antelope or something like. That like how big of a role do you feel like bullet selection is playing like to be effective and and and like has like advancement and bullet technology like really made it possible for these, newer smaller caliber cartridges to play a role in big game. Hunting, YEAH i think. 00:51:44 Speaker 8: It plays a. ROLE i think it's kind of raised THE i think it's kind of raised the bar over you, know the capability overall has. Increased they've always been effective in some. WAYS i mean even in the early nineteen, hundreds you, Know Frank Frank glazer was killing moose with a two two swift and claimed it was the killed everything you, know with just these super crappy forty eight green. Bullets and SO i think that that bullet manufacturer has bullet technology has really contributed to. That and also it's it's made it easier to, hit you, know it's made it easier to shoot. Accurately, yeah. 00:52:23 Speaker 2: And, yeah we're past the days of like round Nose remington core locks that. 00:52:29 Speaker 8: Everybody, Yeah and one you, know one thing like the heavier for caliber bullets are so much. LONGER i DON'T i don't play into sectional density too, much but you know you get a much longer core of lead even in these expanding bullets that that you'll get better penetration than, say you, know an older or like a larger caliber bullet of the same weight that's all. Shorter and that's just one little. Factor and try to get too far in the weeds on. 00:52:58 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah we want to keep bit. Simple do you guys have any any questions For? 00:53:03 Speaker 4: Tyler, YEAH i guess. 00:53:07 Speaker 5: You're shooting primarily match bullets or real frangible. 00:53:11 Speaker 4: Bullets, uh these Times i've been. 00:53:15 Speaker 8: Shoot i've been shooting more particularly like the The hornet to YELD m. Bullets BUT i, mean, honest, like IF i had to just, pick you, know one of my favorite bullets, overall it's that YELD, x which is it's it's not quite AS i and even saying frangible AS i don't know that THAT'S i wouldn't say that that's a really really accurate but it is a more rigidly, constructed constructed. Bullet heavier jacket and there's a locking ring in the jacket that they are going to tend to hold together a little, better but you still get really good rapid expansion and and. Performance SO i MEAN i would say that that that style of bullet is probably my. Favorite. 00:53:54 Speaker 4: Yeah, still, YEAH i always Get i'm always. CONFUSED i GUESS i don't. 00:53:59 Speaker 5: Know it strikes me as sort of strange that people talk so much about cartridges and then they don't talk about bullets and bullet. Construction, yeah because the only thing when you're killing an animal that the question is like what work that bullet does on that animal's? Tissue and that's like what is the bullet made out? Of how fast does it hit? It and does it hit it where you want to hit it? Right and like none of that is really you can do, It like depending on whatever the head stamp, is you can do a. Lot you can do a lot of different things and end up with a lot of different wounds on an. Animal but the bullet is, really, like to my, mind the most important part of the. 00:54:34 Speaker 8: Equation, yeah AND i THINK i think you hit the nail on the. HEAD i, mean that's we are kind of you, know as a whole a lot of hunters tend to make whether it's just the way we're brought up in. It you, know we think cartridge, power kinetic, energy where you know what your bullet construction and what's your impact velocity going to, be you, know because there are people that have done stuff that's you, know kind of stupid with the six to five creed. More but if you if you stay within a reasonable impact velocity, range you, know where you could still shoot really well and hit what you need. To they like it's it shouldn't surprise anyone that it. Works, right you poke a couple holes. 00:55:13 Speaker 2: Through their, lungs they're going to die pretty. Quick, jordan you got anything For? 00:55:17 Speaker 1: Tyler? 00:55:18 Speaker 6: YEAH i guess one of the things you hear, from you, know the folks who want to use the more Powerful magnum cartridges is you, KNOW i want to dump as much energy into the animal as, possible maybe induce hydrostatic. Shock so it just kind of falls down right. 00:55:32 Speaker 3: There what do you what? 00:55:34 Speaker 6: Is where do you stand on that sort of? 00:55:37 Speaker 8: ARGUMENT i would say that it's it's kind of a misconception or not like a poor understanding of a you, know what you should expect when you shoot an animal and you, know just the capabilities or or like terminal ballistics, itself because animals react totally. Differently And i've heard this and whether it's framed IS i want more margin for? Error but, well what does? That what does that really? Mean and you Know i've heard, people you, know because talking about shoot even shooting. Moose it's, well if they soak this, up then this other cartridge isn't going to. Work well that's just a poor understanding of what we should expect from the animal because there's a variety of reactions and the only thing you can really control is. Putting you, know using a bullet's going to put a you, know an acquate size hole through that thing's vitals and placing it, accurately and the animal is going to. Die it might it might drop in its you. Know the ANTELOPE i shot yesterday folded like a lawn. Chair and THEN i watched another one with a bullet that was did some you know more damage to, it shot perfectly and it didn't fall over for fifteen or twenty, seconds, yeah you, know and and both were both were perfect. Shots you, know it's just the. Result results will, vary and you, know a lot of times we we, have you, know a spectacular result or what we interpret is that and we don't you, know it's it's a small sample size that kind of falls within a wide range of. 00:57:00 Speaker 2: Possibilities all, right let's, uh let's speaking to. Results if any of you are still doubting like What tyler is saying about the capabilities of some of these these smaller bore, CARTRIDGES i want you to check out a video that he made last year when he killed you, know In, alaska you come bull moose is probably like sixteen pounds with it was with a twenty two Arc, Tyler is that? 00:57:28 Speaker 3: Right? 00:57:29 Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah and yep eighty Eight and all right. 00:57:35 Speaker 2: Enough nerd Out. Randall before you chime in to like talk trash about how this plays, OUT i want you to first think about. THIS i killed An alaska bull moose last year with a three hundred win mag and it took three good hits to put that bull. Down so like keep that in mind as you're watching what this this. Video, phil you can go ahead and roll roll the tape, Here, Okay. 00:58:04 Speaker 3: I'm ready whenever if you got to clear, shot oh. 00:58:11 Speaker 4: A lot of, brush you don't want to do it. 00:58:22 Speaker 1: He's. 00:58:22 Speaker 2: Done it sounds like my boy's hunting. 00:58:25 Speaker 5: Squirrels he's down or, no he's standing there. 00:58:43 Speaker 2: Now like this this is kind of What i'm talking, About like before you chime in talking, trash he's getting woozy and there he. Goes so no matter what you or me, Say, tyler, like there's gonna be some grumpy haters that would be like you had to shoot them three. Times it took forever for him to tip. Over but like with a big bull, moose that's not unusual with a with a, great big caliber because it's a huge animal and it just takes them a long time to bleed, out, Right so So i've got to believe that like part of the advantage in the situation you were just in is that you were able to like bear like stay on target and like get real quick accurate follow up shots because you're just like not dealing with. Recoil, right, yeah, No and you, know and that was that was a gas gun and the first. 00:59:45 Speaker 8: Shot and in the funny thing is like, say if if you shoot something more than once with a small, cartridge you know it was it wasn't enough. Gun but if you shoot them more than once with a big. Cartridge they're, tough, right you, Know like the first shot at the first shot was perfectly through both, lungs and that you, know it may it's only it's all. Speculation he may have gone another fifty, yards, right you, know but just based on as one of the REASONS i chose to do that is Because i've quite a bit of experience with how moose, die you, know the situations that we're shooting him in, there and, felt you, know obviously confident enough to try, it and, uh you, know and and actually getting the the second shot where he. Turned it hit him unfortunately in the hind, quarter but you know all you, know making limit lemonade out of. Lemons it was pretty imp like that bullet went through ten inches of meat and then she completely shattered the femur and was ended up, somewhere ended up somewhere in the. Guts but the first and third shot were both both through the, lungs and, yeah it was. 01:00:47 Speaker 2: Impressive. Man all, right we're we're we're gonna have to to move on to our next, Segment, tyler but thanks for joining. Us stay in. Touch it's like probably almost winter up there in Fair. Banks i'd imagine it's getting. Close SO i have a great fall and winner up up there and we'll talk to, you talk to you another. 01:01:08 Speaker 8: Time that sounds. 01:01:10 Speaker 6: Great all, right thanks a, Lot Thanks, Tyler, yeah thank. 01:01:13 Speaker 2: You, okay our next, section next. Segment, again if you didn't, realize it's white tail week here At Meat, Eater and since everyone loves just kicking back and talking, hunting shooting the breeze about, hunting which is SOMETHING i think we should do more of on this, show and so so does the HONEST i think we're gonna have a little chat about what our dream white tail hunt With beat would. Be, so, boys do you got, like do you already have like a bucket list white tail hunting mind or is this something that you had to like really stop and think. 01:01:49 Speaker 4: ABOUT i, MEAN i. 01:01:53 Speaker 6: Feel Like I'm i'm still trying to figure it out In East texas a little. Bit BUT i would love to go do a western white tail. HUNT i grew up In virginia and now In East. Texas We west is big. Man you got to pick a, Spot, well what would you recommend for The? Montana if you like white, tails there you. Go, Yeah i'd love to do. That just getting out of the tree. Stand you, know it's it's. 01:02:18 Speaker 3: It's what you. 01:02:19 Speaker 2: Got there's plenty of opportunity for that, HEREAH i, Mean wyoming's got some good whitetail. Hunting colorado like has some giant white tail box but they're most they're almost all in the eastern half of the, state and it's almost all private land right, Right like if you want to do a public land, hunt it'd be hard for me to pick somewhere other Than. Montana, yeah, YEAH i mean that that just sounds great getting to see that, landscape walk, around do a rifle. 01:02:45 Speaker 6: Hunt it'd be a lot of. 01:02:47 Speaker 4: FUN i had to think about this a little. 01:02:50 Speaker 5: BIT i don't necessarily know that their bucket list bucket list. HUNT a bucket list hunt for me would be like going to the most exclusive white tail property that has the biggest bucks and shooting. It but the one Hunt i've always wanted to do just been fascinated, by is uh doing like a North woods. 01:03:10 Speaker 4: Tracking in the, snow like like like In. 01:03:12 Speaker 5: Maine you know you see some of, Those just LIKE i just think that's that would be sort of the, coolest most mind expanding the. 01:03:21 Speaker 3: Atonics and, like oh, yeah it super. COOL i think like low deer densities like tracking a. 01:03:27 Speaker 5: Buck, yeah wear a wool, hat carry a lever. 01:03:29 Speaker 4: Gun, yep, yeah, yep very. 01:03:31 Speaker 3: Cool, YEAH i like that. 01:03:33 Speaker 2: Idea mine would be something like it's like totally out of my my comfort zone and like hunting. STYLE i would, like this is SOMETHING i would like mentally have a tough time, with But i'd still want to do. It which is uh one of Those saskatchewan hunts where you're sitting in a blind and it's like minus ten degrees but you're hunting during the, rut and like you're hunting for these like three hundred plus pound white, Tails like they'll have like one hundred and fifty inch rack and it looks small because the deer just so. GIANT i think that would be a super cool. Experience it would like be, miserable but it would be cool. 01:04:16 Speaker 4: Too. 01:04:17 Speaker 5: Yeah, NO i think one of the cool things about white tails is there's just so many different. 01:04:21 Speaker 4: Ways, yeah you can do, it that's, yeah like pick a, Spot stans. 01:04:25 Speaker 5: Drives i've also been really intriguing WHENEVER i see an image of a white tail deer in a canoe. 01:04:32 Speaker 4: Gives me a little something in my. 01:04:34 Speaker 2: Brain, yeah definitely, definitely a water based hunt would be real. Cool, Okay, Phil let's let's jump back into the. Chat is everyone talking about white tails or guns or. 01:04:46 Speaker 3: What there's a lot of gun talk during during The Tyler real. Conversation not a lot of, questions though there's. There you, KNOW i love this chat because they just talk amongst themselves and share info and opinions and they're all very kind about. It you guys. Rock but we do have a lot a lot of questions. Still this is From harrison and he, says question for the, crew do do you use a packable game sled for deer and? Elk if, so which one do you? Recommend he's right rifle elk hunting this year and wants to use. 01:05:11 Speaker 2: Honey you should ask, That, Like i'm gonna be trying one out this. Year Hopefully i'll get the opportunity to try out a packable. Sled i've used sleds in the, past mostly for, elk but like the ice fishing sled type things like where you shoot it then go back to get the sled and then bring it out and use it to pack the animal out the. Quarters out of whether we had to do that with my kids elk last, Year So i'm, Like i'm definitely interested in the roll up sleds or packable. 01:05:43 Speaker 4: Sleds. 01:05:44 Speaker 5: Yeah i've For Sydney's. Bison we used like a pelican, sled like a big ice fishing. Sled i've used an Orange it's like a burlier kids. Sled, yeah and the roll up ones are like, no like an actual like like, yeah, yeah, yeah and that has BEEN i had one miserable experience with. 01:06:10 Speaker 4: It and one, experience man is. 01:06:13 Speaker 2: Like when you're running that kind of, sled like the snow condition's got to be just right for it to. 01:06:18 Speaker 4: Work. 01:06:19 Speaker 5: WELL i feel like if you if you count on packing it out in a, sled you're kind of setting yourself up For like it's a nice thing to have if the conditions are, right but like. 01:06:31 Speaker 4: There's there's something that's just. 01:06:33 Speaker 5: Really straightforward ABOUT i will put this on my back and carry it right right because because OFTENTIMES i feel like the sled can be way more work than just carrying it. 01:06:42 Speaker 2: Out, yeah and certain snow, conditions for, SURE i. 01:06:45 Speaker 4: Agree good luck to, You. 01:06:47 Speaker 2: Harrison imagine you're not using a sledge too, much. 01:06:51 Speaker 1: Is or. 01:06:52 Speaker 3: Snow i've never heard of. 01:06:53 Speaker 4: THIS i do LIKE i do like using for like a winter backpack. 01:06:57 Speaker 5: Hunt i'll pull a sled behind, Me AND i do like if you just if you're putting like thirty pounds in it that you're not going to have in your, backpack that's that's. 01:07:06 Speaker 2: Nice but, yeah AND i think there are situations where it. Doesn't even with some of these packable, sleds you could probably pull it off without. Snow in the right like, landscape you could still use a sled where the slide slide. 01:07:22 Speaker 4: It, yeah so hopefully that answers the. 01:07:25 Speaker 3: Question this one's very funny to, me AND i don't know if it means. Anything we can just move on if it. Doesn't rashad, says last WEEK i did an expensive fishing. 01:07:31 Speaker 2: Charter was there cheap fishing? 01:07:33 Speaker 3: Charters that's a good. Point we limited out and the captain told me to leave one of our. FISH i thought he was, joking but he took one out of my. Bag never discussed, beforehand thoughts that's not. 01:07:45 Speaker 2: Cool, YEAH i mean it's not that he should Have Captain price should have said something. Advanced but like if you're walking out of there with just like A i don't know what they're fishing for what the limit. Was you, KNOW i don't got a problem with leaving the guy a fish necessarily if it was like done in a rude way where like give me one of. 01:08:09 Speaker 5: Those things OR i, MEAN i think like it comes down to if you really if it was a, question, yeah and he's, Like i'd appreciate a. 01:08:18 Speaker 2: Fish you're not stepping off my. 01:08:20 Speaker 4: YEAH i MEAN i had, people. 01:08:22 Speaker 5: Had people give me some of their fish if they didn't want to take you, home and BUT i didn't ask people for. 01:08:29 Speaker 2: It there's also situations where the captain's going to fish and give you his, fish right, Right, SO i mean again LIKE i don't know the details. 01:08:39 Speaker 4: HERE i don't like. 01:08:40 Speaker 3: It thanks for shot, Great, jordan Says. Phil if you don't bring up The randall's di y chili dogs at the football, game it will be a. TRAVESTY i told. So this is about a new Real randall posted On instagram where one of the new reel he brought a zip lock bag full of. CHILI i don't know you, Guys, okay if you have not seen, this just go To Randall's. Instagram it is it is obscene behavior From. 01:09:06 Speaker 4: Randall it's. 01:09:07 Speaker 5: MISSING i was really hoping BECAUSE i looked up all the rags on getting stuff in. THERE i was kind of THINKING i was gonna have to stash, it you, know like. 01:09:16 Speaker 2: A like keep it warm in your, rocket bring it into the. 01:09:19 Speaker 5: MOVIE i feel like a gatory bottle of liquor tucked into your, pants like we used to do at The bengals. Games but, no if you have food that you want to bring, in it's totally, fine and it abides by the NFL's bag. Policy you just fit it in a gallon sized. Baggie and SO i was really hoping THAT i would have a confrontation and THEN i could pull out my phone Where i'd screenshoted the rules and SAID i know my. 01:09:42 Speaker 4: Rights but that didn't. Happen the. 01:09:45 Speaker 5: Infiltration was actually very anti, climatic But i'm glad you enjoyed. 01:09:50 Speaker 4: It, NONETHELESS i enjoyed. IT i tickled myself with. 01:09:53 Speaker 3: That colin's wondering what piece of first like year is the crew's favorite for cold Late midwestern elite season archery. 01:10:01 Speaker 2: Hunts you got a guy From texas who hunts when it's never cold and, rarely got two other guys who don't hunt cold late season archery. HUNTS i don't like sitting still AND i don't hunt from tree stands too, much BUT i would imagine like going with a bib system is the way. 01:10:23 Speaker 4: To go for that. SITUATION I i got to look up the name of this. 01:10:28 Speaker 5: Jacket, yeah as a bad uh insulated bibs as a bad, person and some great. 01:10:36 Speaker 2: Big warm jacket that you can still drop bow. 01:10:38 Speaker 4: With, yeah there's a Fleece jesus is. 01:10:42 Speaker 2: Embarrassing they just didn't pick the right uh like white tail experts for this. 01:10:48 Speaker 5: Show, Randall, NO i, KNOW i know there's a fleece jacket that's got like a like a windbreaker player in, it AND i can't find it r at the. Moment but that thing is incredibly and yeah it's, fleece so it's very, quiet like it's shockingly. Warm it's probably one of my favorite jackets that just. 01:11:06 Speaker 2: Wear go On First light's website and just go to like the white tail section and they'll have like cold weather. Gear you'll find some good stuff. 01:11:15 Speaker 3: There. 01:11:16 Speaker 4: Yep, Sorry i'm bad at this, Selling. 01:11:18 Speaker 3: Cody this IS i guess, general just traveling with meat tips and things to keep in mind for getting my access deer cape and meat home From. Hawaii humble. Brag BUT i guess if you guys have any sort of tips about flying With i've. 01:11:30 Speaker 2: Not flown with a, cape but like you're probably gonna want to like get it frozen and keep it. Frozen that's a good. Question would you salt a cape before traveling. 01:11:43 Speaker 4: With it TO? I, POSSIBLY i don't have a kind of experienced. 01:11:50 Speaker 2: Phil you're just picking really, bad like difficult questions for us. Today the meat's, easy freeze it and keep it. COLD i would think the same thing for the. Cape and there might be like call attacks at irmis and they'll tell you like if you want to assault it or. 01:12:04 Speaker 4: Whatever, YEAH i don't know. 01:12:05 Speaker 5: That WHEN i flew back From alaska with my, BEAR i don't know that we salted it and you couldn't freeze it because they had to check. It, yeah well you froze it like a thaw and then we threw it in the freezer again at the. 01:12:19 Speaker 3: Hotel but, Yeah, brodie it's either these questions or the ones about video games AND d AND. D i'm trying to spare you from the. 01:12:25 Speaker 2: Questions JUST i feel like we're like just not like these people are going to be disappointed with our. 01:12:31 Speaker 3: Answers, well it sounds like a you. 01:12:33 Speaker 2: Problem oh let's see, here you're picking. 01:12:36 Speaker 3: Them oh, yeah some. Brad i'm late late in, life first time hunter at thirty. Five i've listened and watched you guys for years and read a bunch of huge part of me wants to test myself and go alone versus going with anyone. Else go. 01:12:50 Speaker 2: Alone, yeah, like you will learn so much by hunting. Alone you might you might fail where you otherwise might succeed if you had someone who knows more than. You but, like go hunt. Alone that's All i'm gonna. 01:13:04 Speaker 5: Say it depends on what you're. DOING i, think like if you're doing if you're doing a wilderness type hunt you have to. 01:13:17 Speaker 1: Or. 01:13:17 Speaker 5: ANYTHING i guess like it depends on how you do being by yourself doing. 01:13:22 Speaker 2: Something it could be tough in an entire, day for, sure if you're. 01:13:25 Speaker 5: Going to struggle without someone and not be able to keep your head in the. Game, uh you, know find a buddy or find a. Mentor but if you're if you're you know yourself and you know that you can handle that sort of, thing go for. 01:13:40 Speaker 2: It, Yeah LIKE i, MEAN i don't know if he's saying go alone for the first. First it does say late in my FIRST. 01:13:49 Speaker 3: I think the implication is that it would be his first time going. 01:13:52 Speaker 2: Out, oh THEN i retract my, answer go with someone else the first couple of, times but don't be afraid to go out hunt by. 01:14:00 Speaker 5: Yourself the chalice. Jacket there you, go the chalice. Jacket to sort of clean up one of our earlier. Misses the feel like we're back on. 01:14:10 Speaker 3: Track jrp, Fellow bob cratchit over. Here i'd give you the Secret Bob cratch a, handshake but you're you're not in the room with. Sick you want to do one? 01:14:20 Speaker 2: More one? 01:14:20 Speaker 3: More, OKAY i think we've. Talked we've talked about stuff like this. Before chester's not, here But i'll ask it anyways From jerr Maybe. Jerry here's an etiquette question for. Y'all do you get a you get a deer on private land you were given permission to? Hunt how much meat would be appropriate to give the landowner as a thank? 01:14:35 Speaker 2: YOU i try to clear that up before the hunt and just, say, look IF i get, one do you want? 01:14:41 Speaker 3: Some and go from. 01:14:43 Speaker 6: THERE i Made tomali's Venison Tomaly's, yeah bring us up like. 01:14:48 Speaker 2: Prepared that's a great. IDEA i think you, know it's going to depend on the, person but a lot of times they may not even want Any. 01:14:58 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah it's good to asking ahead of. Time, yeah, Cool, phil anything? 01:15:07 Speaker 2: ELSE i, mean we can do, more but let's move. On i'm about TO i GOT i got a frog in my. 01:15:12 Speaker 4: Throat sounds. 01:15:12 Speaker 2: Good i'm gonna try and get through. 01:15:13 Speaker 4: This do you want me to do? 01:15:15 Speaker 8: This? 01:15:16 Speaker 2: Yeah you can let her. 01:15:17 Speaker 5: Rip hey, Everyone in case you haven't heard, This December Meat eater is doing a Big christmas live tour through six cities in The. Southeast you can get all the info on locations and venues on our. Website but here's the. Catch tickets are going. Fast in, Fact, Faydeville, arkansas has already sold. Out so if you want to catch a fun evening With Steve, Yannis Clay, randall and some very special, guests you better buy your tickets. ASAP i Forgot Brent he's gonna be there, too And Brent reeves. Everybody uh, yeah those tickets are going. Fast fadville is sold. OUT i, think like, overall a majority of, Tickets like if you look at the collective body of tickets a majority or go, on so don't wait too. Long it's nice to get Some christmas shopping out of the. Way so if you've got a friend a family member who would appreciate a fun evening of laughs and outdoor themed, entertainment chop on to the meeteater dot com slash, TOUR i. 01:16:17 Speaker 2: Believe, yep and go to our events. Page they'll be easy to, find. 01:16:21 Speaker 4: Yep so get on. 01:16:23 Speaker 2: That and one last. Thing next week's show is going to be a pre recorded episode Because randal And phil are going out of town to play video games In. Nashville but you guys aren't gonna believe. This Steven ranella is going to be On Radio, live WHICH i don't know how long it's Been phil since he's done. 01:16:46 Speaker 3: That a few months for. 01:16:48 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah so you don't want to miss. 01:16:50 Speaker 5: It and. 01:16:52 Speaker 4: That's. 01:16:52 Speaker 2: It, man that's it for today's. Show thanks for listening and tune in next. 01:16:56 Speaker 4: Week thanks, Everybody, yeah thank, you