00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. 00:00:18 Speaker 2: You can't predict anything. 00:00:20 Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by first Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light dot com. F I R S T L I T E dot com. He was he's getting his vegetation management on his place. 00:00:43 Speaker 3: Oh, I said, clo old, mature, closed canopy, oak forest. 00:00:48 Speaker 4: He's giving you shit about you wanting everything to. 00:00:49 Speaker 1: Look like a park. 00:00:52 Speaker 3: No, if you can see more are more important things. 00:00:56 Speaker 1: If you if someone told you you could kill your daughter, make a box be big. You're not gonna kill your daughter, of course not okay. 00:01:04 Speaker 3: But is this on? 00:01:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, trees start the mill started a minute ago where I said, have it start right where I said that Yanni if he would kill his daughter to make a bigger buck, and then we'll pick up. 00:01:22 Speaker 3: Now you're saying that, uh, my daughter is the equivalent value to a stand of oaks. 00:01:29 Speaker 1: No, the point I'm making in your in your drive to make your Wisconsin property a big buck heaven, to make it part of the white tail industrial complex. 00:01:41 Speaker 3: You're willing, you're already mischaracterizing. 00:01:44 Speaker 1: You're willing to sacrifice. You're willing to sacrifice these poor trees that have been there a long time. Would would would you? 00:01:54 Speaker 3: Uh? 00:01:56 Speaker 4: Would you say that you would be a happy. 00:02:00 Speaker 5: Hunter if everyone managed their oak stands to look like a hundred year old park. 00:02:06 Speaker 1: I don't understand the question. Put it in terms of me killing my children. 00:02:11 Speaker 4: I That's not how my brain works. What I'm saying is is hunting in America would be extremely different if everything looked how you wanted to look. 00:02:25 Speaker 1: I understand, I understand. What I'm trying to prevent him from doing is chopping them all down and not and not leaving some amount of them up. 00:02:35 Speaker 3: I already told you I'm leaving some amount of them less than ten. 00:02:40 Speaker 4: Low stem density, slicker down. 00:02:42 Speaker 1: Yanni. That's what I say, just just to bring people up to speed who are joining us today. Yanni's been trying to develop a how many acres? 00:02:53 Speaker 3: Forty? 00:02:54 Speaker 1: He's trying to develop forty acres of Wisconsin hardwood into into a little deer nest, and in doing this, he's gonna wildlife nest and in doing this, he's gonna kill all kinds of oaks. Which here's the thing that strikes me. Here's why this is upsetting to me, my dear mother, who still lives in the house I grew up in that yard. Our yard where I grew up was when I was a boy, was just giant oaks, a bunch of probably ten, I don't know, giant oaks. And then over the years they have, out of expediency oftentimes for as frivolous of a concern is leaf raking and stick picking up, they have pretty much eradicated the oaks as has as has been a general movement all around that lake. So where once from the air it was just an oak canopy and squirrel heaven, has been just this movement to like get rid of all these big beautiful trees, not for deer management. So when I hear people chopping down all the trees, like I go to a kind of a low rax place. 00:04:18 Speaker 4: Yep, you got to picture all the trees that are going to be there. 00:04:22 Speaker 1: After everyone's dead, after after The hard to look to the future is when all humans are gone, you know, because we won't right, yeap, Just how crazy the earth is going to get when it rebuilds in a few million years. 00:04:41 Speaker 5: It'll be good deer hunting to chop all the big trees down. 00:04:48 Speaker 1: I get tim I get timmer management. I just I just I'm gonna move on from the subject. I just want you to just be delicate and and and be delicate nature. 00:04:59 Speaker 5: Listen, if we all die tomorrow, all the humans are gone, nature is going to come through with a big wind storm, knock all those damn oaks over. Anyway, It's gonna and a fire is gonna come through and burn that. It's just going to get back to its normal fire cycle. Johannis just kind of mimicking that through a timber harvest. 00:05:16 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting. I grew up in a place and that's exactly what it is. There's been no management whatsoever. Lots of old oaks, but lots of big wind storms and it's just a jungle now. But the deer love it. 00:05:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's a deer are Paul as you like you've been on the show before. I had been on your last time. Paul from Vortex Office. 00:05:33 Speaker 6: Is great to be here, but that was probably one of the first way back. It would be way back. I can't even remember what the topics would have been we were talking about, but we were. 00:05:44 Speaker 3: Like, let's discuss rifle sculpt and how they. 00:05:46 Speaker 6: Were probably Yeah, that's exactly what it was. 00:05:49 Speaker 5: Pull your mic up just a little bit higher on your there sound better? 00:05:53 Speaker 3: Yeah, high level with your mustache as such as it is. 00:05:58 Speaker 1: It's just right here to fingers. There you go, all right, Jason Phelps is with us today. Glad here are your mic up to? Jeez, glad to be here. Cus de your hunting in the rain, joined as well by Starbucks apologist Matt Cook. 00:06:15 Speaker 2: We have to talk about that. Shill got some things about that. I get upset all. 00:06:22 Speaker 1: Over again, and uh yeah, honest and seth. I could bore you guys, well, yeah, do you ever want to do that? No, I'm not gonna bore you with that. But here's something interesting someone wrote in about So. We recently had the agriculturalist, Will agriculturist, speaking of land management, Will Harris. Were you there when Will Harris was on the show, No, sir, he runs a large regendat Regenerate He we we discussed with him regenerative agriculture. What that means is some of the practices that go into it. And he talked about they run a slow water plant on. 00:07:00 Speaker 3: The oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, what was it? Last oak? No, white oaks, not like a brush pastures, white oak pastures mm hmm. But you know you got to kill out of white oaks that have pasture underneath. 00:07:19 Speaker 1: Will Harrison white Oak Pastures was on and he was talking about their his this this grand scale experiment of trying to create a farm where you minimize, you minimize what comes you, try to have more individual control of what comes in and what goes off of the place, to the point where they are running their own inspected slaughter plant for the livestock that they sell. They sell much of it direct to consumer, and then they also are doing their own composting of the guts and guts and everything off their own livestock. What's the word I'm looking for. You don't say guts if you're a livestock man. Awful, the viscera awful, awful, they're composting their own awful. And so they have they use heavy equipment and they use wood chips and other things, and they're able to after the slaughtery a will take all of the non usable animal remains and compost them on site, and then use that compost on site. A gentleman wrote in, uh, and this is fitting, Dirt, you were talking about doing a shot of the Last Supper? Can you still pull that off? Dirt's back here? Oh, Dirt, While you're doing that, I'm gonna share with listeners a thing that Dirt shared with me. Who is not present when Dirt discussed his grandfather's chapstick of choice? 00:08:50 Speaker 4: Oh, I was not present? 00:08:52 Speaker 2: Not present? 00:08:54 Speaker 1: Okay, Now I'm gonna give you three guesses as to what Dirt's grandfather other liked for chapstick. How wild do we have to go? 00:09:07 Speaker 2: Just? 00:09:08 Speaker 1: It ain't chapstick, beef tow, it ain't for sale at the store, beef Tell. 00:09:14 Speaker 3: You give him a farther hint. There's too many his body produces it. 00:09:20 Speaker 1: Yes, his grandfather, goodness, Yeah, would dig his own earwax his ear, and apply it as chapstick. 00:09:35 Speaker 3: Yesterday it was. 00:09:38 Speaker 2: Lips all day. 00:09:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, that made a ton of sense. Did you get shout of the Last Supper? Got? Why? I want to key that up? So this gentleman writes in what's this guy's name? Uh, it doesn't really matter. Stephen from Illinois. Stephen from Illinois rights in. As he was listening to our guest talking about composting animals his own site, he reminded him of a Bible verse. He says, an old Bible verse. But all Bible verses are old. If someone shows you a new Bible verse, be skeptical an old Bible verse. Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with the earth Leviticus, seventeen thirteen. And he thought about that as he's talking about Will Harris talking about spreading out the guts and covering them with earth, and he wants to know is this a good practice? And he says, perhaps it's not lawful in some areas to dig dirt up and cover your gut pile. But he's wondering, you know where that comes from Biblically? Does it strike someone as good thing when you get done cutting up an animal in the field, that you would go out and cover it with dirt? And is that legal? I have never heard of any restrictions on covering up your gut pile with dirt. The only con I could think of is that usually, well, you know what, in some places you have to, right, probably in condor don't you have to in condo recovery areas? Aren't you supposed to cover your No? Am I making this. 00:11:31 Speaker 6: Up because of the lead Yeah, potentially that's probably why that would have been. 00:11:37 Speaker 1: Am I making this up. There's a place you're supposed to cover yourt gut pile, bary your gut pole. No, I think there's somewhere where there was for a while, maybe before the lead band and the condo recovery area, you were actually tasked with covering bearing your gut pile. However, I've never heard of any restrictions on it. Yanni. Well, now in times, I don't know if you still do this. He will drape the hide over just to leave it seeming tidy. 00:12:03 Speaker 3: I would think, just to make the coyotes work for it. 00:12:05 Speaker 1: I would think a negative would be in doing this. A negative would be that, you know, rafters will dine on that, and if you're covered it with dirt, maybe make their job a little bit harder. But it's definitely not going to go to waste. But then he gets into a lot of this other stuff that I've discussed before about why are there so many references in the Bible to trapping and talking about other other biblical versus that reference hunting? So Proverbs, who can tell me what? Proverbs twelve twenty seven. Nobody? Okay, lazy people, hear this. Lazy people don't even cook the game they catch, but the diligent make use of everything they find. 00:12:56 Speaker 2: M M. That's a good one. 00:13:00 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:13:00 Speaker 1: Now he goes on to say this, I'll provide some insight on this in the minute Amos. I didn't even know that was part of them, Amos Amos three five does it's a rhetorical question, I gather. Does a bird swoop down to a trap on the ground when no bait is there? Does a trap spring up from the ground if it has not caught anything? Psalms ninety one to three. Surely He will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence Proverbs one seventeen. How useless to spread a net where every bird can see it? Proverbs sixty five. Free yourself, like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter, like a bird from the snare of the fowler, and then one first Samuel twenty six, the king of Israel has come out to look for a flea as one hunts a partridge in the mountains. Isaiah fifty one to twenty. Your children have fainted. They lie at every street corner like antelope caught in a net. And lastly Ecclesiastices nine to twelve. Moreover, no one knows when their hour will come, as fish are caught in a cruel net, or birds are taken in a snare. So people are trapped by evil times that fall unexpectedly upon them. I think all that seth. 00:14:45 Speaker 5: I know, Uh, several times in Pennsylvania have come back to a gut pile from a deer I've killed, and it's been covered up by a bobcats. So maybe they're doing the Lord's work out there. 00:14:57 Speaker 1: There you go, all this netting, so I had I've mentioned this for a while, revisit it. I had occasion one time to go to a thing called you've wrote the Hobbad House. Matt, you're a worldly fella, I am. Yeah, you've been. You've spent time with the Israelites. 00:15:14 Speaker 2: No, but there's in downtown Chicago. 00:15:17 Speaker 1: So a friend of mine was Jewish, and we went to this thing called the Hobbad House, and basically it's where reformed I'm gonna say this in the way that the Hobbad probably would not characterize it. It's like it's a it's a Jewish, it's a it's like a Jewish fundamentalist organization that tries to recruit reformed or laxed Jews. So they're not proselytizing to gentiles. They're like proselytizing two Jews who aren't practicing, okay, so they would have zero interest in me as a gen like a Hobbad dude would have zero interest in me as a as a gentile. It's like, I'm not there. I'm not there, but I'm with my friend who's a reformed Jew, and you get to ask these people questions. And she was researching a book, is why she was there. So I was just there hanging out, and I was saying, because we're talking about dietary law from the Old Testament, so Old Testament dietary law gets into a lot of things like that's where you know, you'll say like that don't eat pork, okay, And so everybody says, oh, yeah, of course, the Bible says don't eat pork because you could get trick andosis. But if you ask, uh, if you ask one of these scholars, why does the Bible say don't eat pork? Is it because of trick andosis? They would say, you don't know. We don't know why God said don't eat pork. Don't speak for God. It's a mystery why he'd like, he doesn't say why he doesn't want you to eat pork. Don't eat pork. If he said it was because of it feels because of trick gnosis, he would say, that's what it is. You don't know why. So there's a dietary prohibition. Like if you if you follow the Old Testament, if you follow it literally, you know, like you don't gamble, you definitely don't gamble. You don't eat shrimp. So no, no shellfish, no fish without scales, no animals that don't have a cloven hoof, which rules out hogs, it rules out horse meat, definitely rules out coyotes, an array of insects you're not supposed to eat. And he just lays out like, here's what my people eat, here's what my people don't eat. One of the things that when for you to eat an animal, if you follow the Bible literally, if you eat an animal, that there's a ritualistic way that the animal needs to be killed with a cut to the throat with a certain type of blade. So you'll see references often to netting animals because you can net an animal. You could catch a wild animal and still do ritualistic slaughter to make it kosher. So I was asking him how could you have how could you eat wild game as an observant Jew or as an observant Christian who observes the Old Testament, And he said, you have to catch it in a net, and then you can catch it a net because because the slaughter needs to be able to inspect the animal, and not only that, they need to be able to inspect the viscera. So if you have a cash root cosh root ka s h r u t if you do cosh root slaughter when they have rabbis that they'll gut the animal and pull the lungs out and see if it has any lesions or anything, because they're they're they're playing it so safe with God that they're like God says, don't eat carrying, Okay, So that's another descriptor if you follow the Old Testament literally, and no one does. But if you did, Uh, if you follow the Old Testament literally, you would not be able to eat road kill because you wouldn't be able to ascertain the health of the animal. No one inspected the health of the animal. So some people who are super fundamentalists play it so safe, uh, play it so safe with God that they would be like, not only do I not want to eat carrion, I don't want to eat something that may have had a close brush with death and then lived. So you'll take a perfectly healthy looking animal and they'll still pull its lungs to see if it has any lesions from past ailments that might have made it that like it almost was dead. So you're like, you're you're hedging your bets. 00:19:35 Speaker 7: I'm starting to really question eating elk with hoof rot and deer that survives CWD and I no. 00:19:41 Speaker 1: No, you will, you will be struck down. Probably should revisit them. 00:19:45 Speaker 2: Question for you. So is it anything that is you know you catch the animal live I mean netting, not literally, but if there was a live trap. 00:19:53 Speaker 1: Yes you could do it. 00:19:54 Speaker 2: Okay, you could be after you have to be the one that kills it. 00:19:57 Speaker 1: You could follow Old Testament. You could Old Testament dietary law and catch a deer in a net, which is gonna get in trouble with your state fishing game agency. But you got to sort of go like what matters more like law of God or law of man right, And the Bible will also advise you on where the hierarchy of law falls, and it would say the law of God sits above the law of man. So if you were trying to follow the Bible, you could catch a deer in a net and then do the proper slaughter in the proper way, and that meat would be fine. It's not that there's a problem with the meat in and of itself, it's the process of delivering it to the plate. And then, of course you couldn't mix it with milk, like you can't eat meat and cheese together, because the Bible says, don't boil a kid in its mother's milk. So to play it extra safe, you don't mix milk and meat. 00:21:00 Speaker 2: Even the milk is different than the animal that you're mixing it with, meaning. 00:21:05 Speaker 1: Don't like I don't know, you'd be like, I don't exactly know what God meant, but don't mix milk and God, don't mix meat and milk in any circumstances. There's a bunch of our stuff. And there's also like God says, don't shave the corners of your face, and so people have trouble have been puzzled by what that means. That's why you'll see observant Jews that have the pays that long because they play it so safe. They're like, not only am I not gonna shave my side burn, I don't really know what he meant, so I'm gonna extend that up into my hairline to make sure I'm playing it safe. We're gonna get a lot of letters of people who don't want to describe. But it's fascinating. It's a great approach. It'd be like, it's a really great approach to be an observant. You'd be like, you take what they said, and you extra don't do it. 00:21:59 Speaker 2: You know, question for you, is there any loophole or anyone you've ever seen where you know, instead of hunting in a traditional way, they are live trapping animals and you know, preparing the meat and they in the way that you described you. 00:22:16 Speaker 1: Know, I've never heard of it. I've never heard of any interesting I've never heard. I've never seen. I've never heard of game meat being advertised as cash root. I think when you look at the food labels, I think it's you. Maybe it's a you with a circle around it would tell you that that it's in, that it's prepared in accordance with Old Testament dietary law. 00:22:39 Speaker 2: I said, know, there's a loophole from a hunting perspective. 00:22:42 Speaker 1: No, I've never heard of anybody exploiting that loophole. Because then you get into this huge there's a huge element of tradition. For instance, Uh, now, like shark meat would be generally regarded as not kosher, but now researchers like, it's not the way that they think of a scale. Really a shark is scaled, right, So when they look at shark skin, right, the anatomy of sharkskin, they're like, arguably, it's just it's it's you know, millions of scales that create that skin field, just the scale different form. That doesn't mean that people that follow Old Testament dietary law rushed out to buy shark meat. And there's like a. 00:23:34 Speaker 6: Tradition forbidden shark meat. I missed that part of it. 00:23:36 Speaker 1: What was no scaleless fish. 00:23:39 Speaker 3: I wish that my kids would take the same approach to uh, listening to my parenting. 00:23:47 Speaker 1: They're like, I don't want to upset dad, so I'm gonna be extra sayed. 00:23:55 Speaker 2: Not gonna happen. 00:23:56 Speaker 1: That'd be great. Yeah, it's like, you know, Dad gets mad about the candy, so in fact, I'm cutting out some sugars they would traditionally have been okay, I don't want to make my dad man. Speaking of kids, there to day, I had a long time ago told my kids the story of how the Teddy Bear came to be, Like how the why Teddy Bears are Teddy Bears? And it involves, of course, Teddy Roosevelt opting not to shoot a a black bear that a freed slaveh a former slave and hunting guide named Holt Collier, had lassoed and tied to a tree. Teddy Rose opts not to shoot the bear. A weird part of the story that never gets told is like they'd killed the bear anyways, he didn't kill but they still killed the barracks. It was all messed up. They always leave that out of the telling anyways. I was asking my kids, I'm like, hey, remember when I told you the story of how the Teddy Bear got its name. Tell me that story back. And my eight year old is telling me the story back, and he says he doesn't remember the name of whole Collier, but he says, and then the hunting guide called Teddy Rosevelt. I'm like, he called him place a phone called the Teddy rolls. Uh, here's a so. Here's a study that just came out that's interesting. The headline study finds bigfoot sightings correlate with black bear populations. 00:25:25 Speaker 6: Surprise, surprise, that's interesting. 00:25:30 Speaker 1: I got an email. I'll give you a little more than I'll tell you about a thing that they're looking at to and I'll prelude it by saying this. A guy just wrote. A journalist just wrote in he wanted to like quote an article that was at the mediator dot com about gunfire and hearing loss. And it's, uh, you know how I used to have all these ideas It turned out to be wrong. I thought left wing people were far more likely to be gluten intolerant than right wing people. And I thought left wing people we're far more likely to believe in ghosts than right wing people, both of which are not true. Right wing people are far more likely to suffer hearing or more likely to suffer hearing loss. That makes sense, has to be gunfired or just running heavy equipment doing harder. Yeah all yeah, rural. And it was like there's like a rural overlap within that egg equipment, chainsaws, loud ass motorcycles super Yeah. So this guy wrote in and he was exploring the gunfire aspect of hearing loss among the right. Uh so this article, I can't tell where it came from. Ours Technica. What the hell's that? ARS Technica? Dude, these guys are wrong. What does that mean? ARS Technical? 00:26:53 Speaker 2: I've seen that before. Is a publication. 00:26:58 Speaker 1: We're in Mexico getting right as is kicked? Oh yeah, Ours Technica, ARS Technical. I haven't heard of this news source anyways, that's the new source. The idea that North America is home to completely unknown primate species just doesn't seem to go away. Lord, it does not. Years I'm reading, years after everyone started walking around with high quality cameras in their phones, there still haven't been any clear images of a bigfoot. But that hasn't stopped a steady flow of reported sightings that, as we've explored in the past, I like to goof on bigfoot people, which is, you know, easy pickings, low hanging fruit. They have come up with this explanation that bigfoot resides in a dimension that can't a different dimension not subject to film. Now, someone named flow Foxen has followed up on an earlier analysis and checked for factors that could influence the frequency of bigfoot sightings throughout North America. The results suggest that there's a strong correlation between sightings and the local black bear population. For every one thousand bears, I'm assuming it's this is the frequency of bigfoot sightings goes up by about four percent. I'm assuming they mean by unit of space. So here's some good stuff. The most recent comprehensive peer reviewed data on black bear populations dates from two thousand and six, so they're using data from that year. Even so, a number of states and provinces had to be excluded. Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota had no known black bear populations in two thousand and six. There's some other states that just didn't have adequate numbers on didn't have adequate numbers on black bears, so they went and looked ahead, and they found that forested areas where you have a okay, it's kind of complicated, a really good job of it. Overall, Fox and found that with forested areas and the human population taken into account, there's about one bigfoot sighting for every five thousand black bears. Each additional one thousand bears raises the probability of a sighting by about four percent. Then they go on to she's trying to then make some sense out of it, and it could be helpful for bear con could be helpful for bear conservation. Oh my god. You know they try to like this is from the Journal of Zoology, you know, only they always like like nowadays, if you want to publish anything we've talked about this, If you want to publish anything in a newspaper about wildlife, you if you link at the climate change, it'll be in there, right anything a great a polar bear attacks a person climate change. 00:29:55 Speaker 3: I thought that was shot down after we brought that up. Then a bunch of people write in say that wasn't it. 00:30:00 Speaker 1: No, that was talking about that was talking about in journal entries. But I'm saying that, like, you could take any freak wildlife thing, any freak wildlife thing, and you'll in the end link it to climate change. So here this person is saying. Here, this person is saying this is nothing new with climate change. The person is saying that this could be great for quote whatever this means quote bear conservation, as the frequency of bigfoot sightings may provide a proxy measure for the number of black bears present and thus could provide an independent method of tracking population changes. Or or you just wasted a ton of time. 00:30:48 Speaker 2: More likely. 00:30:51 Speaker 1: They got done and they showed it that they got done with their paper, and they showed their friend, and their friends said, that's the the stupidest thing I've read in years. And then they're like, shit, you're right. This could be helpful for bear count. Instead of measuring, Instead of having all these stupid biologists out measuring bear populations, what we could do instead is will set up a Bigfoot hotline, and then we'll take incoming calls to the Bigfoot hotline and model them out to find out how many bears are on the landscape, and if we see a reduction in Bigfoot hotline calls. That wouldn't mean something to do with education, drug use, the rise and fall of hippie shit. It would be that bear numbers are down. So when they set quotas, you'll be like, the bear manager will be like, huh, you know what we got. Montana's Region three had zero bigfoot sightings this year, no tag allocation this year. It seems that the bear are gone. The dumbest thing I've ever read. That dumb till the end. 00:32:06 Speaker 3: I have them add in to look at whether there's more sightings during a Democratic presidency or Republican presidency. 00:32:16 Speaker 1: That would be good, a good overlay. And the other thing is is what about areas that have high black bear density in different color phases? Ah? 00:32:25 Speaker 6: Yeah, I could mess it up. 00:32:27 Speaker 1: Here's one. We have a guest that we're working on getting a guest on to talk about We're getting a guest on to talk about the public land costs, the costs of public land with industrial scale utility, utility scale wind and solar development. The guest we're working on is involved in is involved in offshore wind development, not involved in it as a stakeholder, but involved in it as a person measuring environmental impact and by I think it's by is it twenty? I can't remember what the projection is since the camemera of the projection. I don't want to say it. We don't have great internet where we're at in Mexico right now. Tens of thousands of offshore tens of thousands of offshore wind units along the east of the lawn the Atlantic shoreline by twenty fifty or whatever the hell is, six thousand by twenty thirty. Right, So a couple things. What does that mean for all that increased disturbance around construction? But also what does it mean for fish habitat? And a great parallel is you'd go and look at what oil development in the golf of Mexico wound up doing for the fishery. I mean, it creates a fishery right like department. It's sort of the the Department of Unforeseen Consequences. Is Uh, there was all that disturbance, all that development, no doubt, all kinds of you know, probably very negative impact on bivalves and all this other stuff, but in certain with certain reef fish, it caused us long term explosion in reefish populations. So we're gonna have a guest on to talk about offshore wind and what offshore wind looks like and what are you getting out of it, short term impacts, long term impacts, what fish hate it, what fish will love it, and sort of what your future is going to look like as we develop offshore wind. But this is a plan. This is is widely reported, but we're looking at Montana Free Press here about the BLM unveiling a plan for utility scale solar developments in Western states on your public lands. We're going to dive into that in greater detail later, but we're talking about massive amounts of land, Massive amounts of land that you currently hunt could potentially be could potentially be developed. So if the BLM selects, there's this thing different alternatives. One of these alternatives eight million acres of So this let's focus on Montana from it. Just we're looking at a Montana free Press. But this is why it spread across the west. But just an example in Montana. Out of eight million acres of BLM managed land in Montana, two hundred and ten thousand acres could become available for solar developments. Most of that stuff deemed suitable for solar development sits north of what's called the high Line. So if you if you look at the high Line generally, it's like the string of towns North Highway too. So Highway to the high Line used to be a railroad line, but two runs. So you had the what's the one what's the main rail line, the high ninety rail like the ninety ninety four rail line, what's it called Northern Pacific? The Northern Pacific bisects the state east to west. And then you had the high Line, which is another rail line in the north, and eventually Highway to followed that. So they're saying that of that the BLM could develop two hundred and ten thousand acres for putting solar developments on that land. There's a bunch of land that's out of the question because it's too far from high voltage transmission lines. And then the seven point three million acres, okay, have been deemed ill suited. This is just a one state, mind you, So the vast majority seven point three million acres ill suited for reasons ecological reasons, historical reasons, cultural and reasons recreational. My fear with all this, my fear with all this is uh, and we're gonna we're gonna get into this with a with a with a specialized guest who again focuses on offshore. My fear with all this is that we do this wind and solar development and if you go look like you ever seen that map, if you're going to power Great Britain with current wind and solar technologies, what the hell was it? Seventy you have to cover seventy four percent of it with wind and solar. I can't remember what. I might be a little bit off, but if you're gonna do that Great Britain, you'd have to cover I think I don't know what the hell is seventy four Then of available of non developed lands would need to be converted with current technology. My fear is that we go through with this kind of stuff, but it's not a local problem. It's a global issue. We go through with this, and then China, India, right these parts of the world also Africa or population is growing right in places, it's growing exponentially over time. That we go through with this and we trash, we trash our like our remaining bits of undeveloped lands globally, we don't see any kind of transition. And then down the road you see that temperature gradually increases, and we'd be like, well shit, if we hadn't done any of that, it made no difference. And now as we try to create landscape wide room four species two develop and adapt and colonize new areas and change their habits in accordance with warmer weather that we've trashed those landscapes, and globally this idea never caught on and it made it was a drop in the bucket, made zero difference. And all we've come out of it with is we've developed the areas that we're going to need for resiliency no matter what the hell happens in the future. Meaning let's say the temperature is going to climb two degrees, three degrees, four degrees. Wildlife still needs a place to be. And if you're not going to prevent it from happening, you you need to hedge your bets by having big, intact ecosystems, right like create room for wildlife to find a way forward. But if you destroy all your wildlife habitat trying to curb a thing that you can't curb because one it's more complicated than we think it is, or two it would take a global effort that that there's not enough will power there in the developing world to follow through with that, we just screw ourselves and nothing changes. Anyways, I'll hand it over. Have you. 00:40:08 Speaker 7: Have you heard Elon talk about what we would need for a solar grid to power the entire US, like per our current power usage. 00:40:16 Speaker 1: No I haven't. 00:40:16 Speaker 7: He said, one hundred and one square miles, and your batteries would have to take up one square mile, so like I imagine, and not to put it off onto Mexico Arizona. But you find like a ten by ten like, dedicate that, and then you just put your hundred square miles the solar panels out there, and you're done with this whole mess. 00:40:31 Speaker 1: No more. One hundred square miles would do what would power the entire US grid right now as is, and you would need batteries that hold a one square mile, so literally ten miles. He's smarter at this battery stuff for me. I remember him saying, I just looked it uple oh, one continuous panel. 00:40:50 Speaker 7: Just yeah, whatever current technology, you put whatever you need to on that hundred and one square miles and then you feed all these batteries that need their an entire square mile and uh bam, you don't have any more of these windmills, you don't have any more of this offshore stuff. It's like not saying that we need to do it to New Mexico, Arizona, but I'm like, man, there's a lot. 00:41:09 Speaker 3: Of Steve just said though, is that from what he's reading, it's going to take seventy percent of the land mass to pull it off, not one hundred Great Britain. 00:41:20 Speaker 7: So I wish I could pull up See that's where I think we're so expanded, you know. And and I don't know. I ask your expert. 00:41:27 Speaker 1: That Matt pull up that stat You probably get it searched up stuff on the internet. 00:41:31 Speaker 2: We take a look. 00:41:32 Speaker 1: I'm one of the best, you know. I don't have a good SI. You know. 00:41:35 Speaker 2: My concern is like the idea of putting solar in these public spaces is kind of more lubricated than putting drilling or oil, like I mean, and it could have as bad of an effect on. 00:41:50 Speaker 1: Public by you know, there's good will or people feel like they're doing a good thing. 00:41:53 Speaker 2: Sixty Minutes had a couple of weeks ago had a feature on it, and it was a good will story and it showed standing up looking at a public land where this massive solar field would go. And in my mind, you know, people are very concerned about, you know, natural gas and oil drilling for migration. Why would they not be concerned about the same thing. 00:42:14 Speaker 1: Because the odds it puts them, It makes this, it puts you at odds with yourself. That's exactly because you're like, you're a habitat you believe in habitat conservation, and many people who are very concerned about habitat conservation, there's a crossover are very concerned about energy. And so you kind of go like, okay, buddy, I get it. You're a big environmentalist. You think we should be moving away from fossil fuels. How about we go over to your little spot, your little honey hole and develop that for alternative energy. And then you got to be like, yeah, I better stay consistent and say that it's okay. 00:42:51 Speaker 2: This story, you know, was meant to create like we found an exciting alternative, but it's putting solar fields in places that everyone is very concerned about, you know, from an energy perspective, you know, disrupting migration corridors, et cetera. That kind of thing. 00:43:06 Speaker 1: I would argue that we use eminent domain. In eminent domain, large tracts of urban area, uh sees, large tracks of currently developed urban area, and sports of stadiums for starters, and convert those into places. I'd advocate no more sports stadiums. 00:43:30 Speaker 2: You know what industrial warehouses, that's become a new strateergy. There's massive spaces on top of Amazon warehouse. 00:43:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, why are we not capping cities and why are we talking about doing it on Why are we talking about doing it on undeveloped landscapes. There has to be a way. And I'll say what I really think we ought to be doing what I really like. I'm a big at, I'm a big nuclear advocate. People like, it's risky, it's all risky. Developing on developing undeveloped lands is risky. It's all risky. 00:44:10 Speaker 3: Just remember if you take away all those sports stadiums, all those people that love sports and pay attention to that and are not hunting and fishing. 00:44:20 Speaker 1: I was just joking about sports. That's why. That's why I'm like with ski hills. With ski hills, I'm like, I'm down. You know, I don't like I hate none. I hate more than me trying to turn left and I can't because everybody's going to the ski hill. Makes me want to just kill them all. My my neighbor, my good buddy, you know, Pottery Pat. He's on the ski hill now. No. No, if I'm trying to turn left on a good powder day, I'll call him. I'm like, man, I got real problem, Pat, and only you're on the board of the ski hill. I can't go left out of my driveway. You need to figure this out. Uh, here's another, here's another sticky one. Man. So the king salmon is headed toward a This is gonna get litigated, like holy hell, the King salmon of the Gulf of Alaska is headed for an ESA listings. So the Wildfish Conservancy is doubling down on its attempts. This is a This is a press release from Salmon State. This is a press release from Salmon State out of Alaska. The Wildfish Conservancy is doubling down on its attempt to shut down fishing in Alaska without consulting with or speaking to the people they're sledge hammering. You can tell this comes from the perspective of salmon states trying to protect salmon fisheries. Basically, in the big fight over, you know, which turns into a never ending blame game about who's the blame for salmon. They're they're looking now to shut down even there's been some shut some shutting down already occur, even of troll fishing, troll fishing for sam, which is like a highly selective salmon fishing deal, a hook and line fishery. So this organization, Salmon State, is trying to not only protect wild salmon, protect people whose lives are interconnected with them, and they are uh fighting somebody salmon closures. But things just do not look It's it's one of those deals, like what it's like looking at quail in the southeast trying to get other things quail in the southeast, deer on this place we're in right now, king salmon, and you're like, you're looking like what happened, and it's too you can't say what happened. It's too many things to say what happened. But just king salmon are just hurting. They're hurting the weird of course they're hurting in the Columbia water shed where you have all these dams. Okay, so you're looking like, well, obviously it's all the dams. But why are king salmon numbers down in non damned areas? 00:47:47 Speaker 3: Microplastics? 00:47:49 Speaker 2: Same reason? 00:47:50 Speaker 1: Why gah? But why aren't coho down? And why aren't pinks down? It's it's a really complicated it's really complicated. You can't there's anything that you bring up. We've had someone on who knows this world really well. That's been a couple of years. Anything you bring up you're like, yeah, it must be this, like okay, but but then what about this? Sure like it must be this? Okay? Why are pink numbers good? Why are we seeing great returns on other salmon species? Like? What is it with kings? It's a different fish they spend you know, they'll spend more time in the oceans. A lot of this movement now about a lot of this A way that people are trying to get these fish that they're trying to get fisheries shut down is when you yawn to pull on America's heart strings. There's one animal that's definitely gonna do the job. That's Willie the orca yep, which I still call killer whale. 00:48:53 Speaker 4: What does your brother Danny have anything to say about that? 00:48:55 Speaker 1: It's got lots to say about. It's one of the primary things he works on. Yeah, what does he what does he think death by a thousand cuts gotchas by a thousand cuts? Uh? Warming water definitely does not help. Just depletion of fisheries does not help, you know, low harring numbers and areas doesn't help. Dams certainly, you know, certainly don't help. Even areas outside of dams though, just death by a thousand cuts some level of mystery. We should have someone back on to talk about it in greater detail. 00:49:34 Speaker 2: Are you saying that the orca, you know, if their start being affected by let you know, less food source. Yeah, you know that happened with obviously with whale watching in the East with Manhaden. You know, all of a sudden that got elevated because the whale watching crowd you know, was having a different experience. 00:49:54 Speaker 1: Less people are like, I was fine to watch king salmon blink out, but to hear the the orc it is hungry. That's just I put. That's where I draw. That's where I draw a line in the sand. 00:50:06 Speaker 2: No one cares about small bait fish until the whales aren't rolling and you're seeing them. 00:50:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then people are like this is this is this cannot this will not stand. 00:50:14 Speaker 2: This will not stand, you know, and so. 00:50:16 Speaker 1: You got to do that. But uh, I don't know. And well we'll have to get someone back on and I know people to get back on and talk about salmon. But when you look at like the overall population and the mortality that comes from the troll fishery, it's just such a drop. It's like a symbolic gesture. It's a symbolic gesture that you're gonna end the troll fishery in Southeast Alaska and the Gulf of Alaska. You're gonna end the troll fishery and also be like they're back. But you know what I mean, it's just not gonna It ain't gonna be the thing that does. Here's another one that really hits me and Yanni right in the nuts. You're ready for this, Johnny, I hope so. Uh A listing for Wisconsin Sturgeon ah Center for our our old friends at the Center for Biological Diversity. This is one of those organizations that's like, you know, humane Society people think when they think of Humane hs US, when people think of the Humane Society United States hs US, they think they're helping puppies that don't have a home. They don't realize that they're that it's a it's an anti hunting animal rights organization, and they confuse Humane Society Local Humane Society shelters with hs US activities. Hs US is an anti hunting organization that masquerades as like rescue puppies. Uh Center for Biological Diversity is in large measure, and I mean they're just reflexibly anti hunting and fishing. So the Center for Biological Diversity is petitioning to have Lake sturgeon federally listed and subsequently removed the right to fish and spear lake sturgeon. Now, the problem with this is people say that people would go and even sturgeon managers in Wisconsin are saying, you're taking a sledgehammer approach to something that needs to be more surgical. The Lake Winnebago sturgeon population should be used as an example of proper conservation. This is coming from a listener named Taylor. Taylor and Aaron wrote in the Lake Winnebago sturgeon population should be taken as an example of proper conservation. While it is understandable that certain sturgeon populations across the nation are low. The decision on regulations, hunting season, and protection should be left up to state and local entity ties to protect state and local resources. The Lake Winnebago sturgeon is thriving. This is backed up by countless annual surveys tracking exact harvest of individuals, safe harvest caps generated using population models, and enormous amounts of research data collection. The Winnebago System lake sturgeon population is the most well studied lake sturgeon population in the US. It was near extinction in the early nineteen hundreds from over harvest at a time when conservation was non existent. Through diligent management and legislative action that enabled money raised through spearing, license sales, and donations to be directed only to sturgeon research and habitat improvement, the population grew to what it is today. It is spearing and angling that directly resulted in the recovery of the Lake Winnebago sturgeon. They go on to say that Yanni's even been there. 00:54:08 Speaker 3: Sounds like that whole North American model work. 00:54:12 Speaker 6: It does. Yeah, I've had limited experience with that. I follow the you know, you'll see postings of these big sturgeon that that guys will take and I think that probably generates a lot of you know activity within that crowd that Steve was talking about, you know, these sort of big dramatic fish dead. But it seems like that's. 00:54:30 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, especially when you stake a big old seventh spear thrower. 00:54:34 Speaker 6: Yeah. But my impression that it's always been that's a very you know, much in agreement with the letter that you got there. That's a very tightly managed another there. 00:54:43 Speaker 1: Yeah. Another guy wrote in about the same So another uh, another individual, Ryan wrote in worked up about the same issue, and he lays out the history too, a history that goes back to nineteen thirty one. He said Wasjohnson was the first state to put protections in for Lake sturgeon. And he didn't say this, but I'm saying also in plan with limited harvest Okay in Wisconsin also is the birthplace of Sturgeon's sturgeon for tomorrow. He goes on to say, our state, Wisconsin has led the way to the restoration of the sturgeon, not only in our own waters, but in other states through sharing of spring spawning egg collections and our hatcheries being first to successfully raise sturgeon. Our Winnebago system has a dedicated lake sturgeon biologist who oversees the estimated population of forty thousand fish and sets the highly managed harvest caps for each February's sixteen day season. He goes on to say, losing our limited harvest. So they have an estimated forty thousand fish they issue for this short season about thirteen thousand tags. They don't kill nearly that many fish because it's not a quota. He says, you know, goes into the obvious effects of you're locking out public input. You're locking out public enthusiasm for a resource, public enthusiasm about how these angers came together to restore this resource, and folks aren't happy. She's another guy wrote in Nathan Kaiser, same points, wanting to hear us talk about it. I think we just talked about it. 00:56:47 Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like it's in danger. 00:56:51 Speaker 1: In a lot of places it is okay. 00:56:52 Speaker 2: But in that particular instance. 00:56:54 Speaker 1: I think they got a case. I think they got like a case of you know, I think they're not looking at at it, not giving Wisconsin credit where credits due. I'm restoring a fishery in a way that brings a lot of good will. Yoanni can speak to it. Anyways, Me and Yanni keep applying for these I don't know how much money you mean, put it into that pile of money. We've sweetened that pot up over the years. 00:57:17 Speaker 6: You guys wanted to go sit in one of the shacks. 00:57:20 Speaker 1: And well, we want to go to the Upper Lake. 00:57:22 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:57:22 Speaker 3: I don't think that that applications cost that much money. So we might be in for one hundred bucks. 00:57:29 Speaker 1: We want to fish the Upper Lake and we're collecting bonus points. 00:57:32 Speaker 3: Yeah, we got another three four years to. 00:57:34 Speaker 6: Point upper Lake a more desirable place. 00:57:39 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:57:39 Speaker 6: Fish. 00:57:40 Speaker 1: When you draw the Upper Lake, you're going to be in it. 00:57:44 Speaker 3: If we shouldn't even be talking about it. 00:57:46 Speaker 1: I know because now, well that's why I got to real ax to grind here, because you know, at the end of the day, it's you know, when I think I could tell you, guys, when when I was in eighth grade, I took Civics class eighth or ninth grade with a guy named Al Deong. 00:57:57 Speaker 3: You didn't tell me that. 00:57:58 Speaker 1: I've never told you the story. The teacher is Al Young, and he taught Civics and he taught it from the angle of he would talk about one. He would say like, I would never take you kids down to register to vote, any kids, because why would I dilute my vote? He would say, I don't want you people to vote because I don't get people wanting other people to vote. I wish I was the only voter. And he would also say I like that. Well he was he was playing. I think he was looking back, I think he's being a little bit of a devil's advocate. But his slogan was remember when he's trying to explain government, he'd be like remember, and he'd put his thumbs toward himself. He goes, remember, I am concerned only with what effects al de Young. And he would play like the singer. Everybody hated him, but like, looking back at it, I think he was like demonstrating a point as a teacher. You know, I'm concerned only with what effects al the Young and this is this, this this Wisconsin deal. Just to lay it all out there, I want I don't want people to I want people to know my biases. I have been steadfastly trying to draw a sturgeon permit Wisconsin so years ago, and we're gonna I'll move on from the subject. But years ago I wrote an op ed in the New York Times saying it's time to delist the grizzly Okay, and I laid all the reasons that for twenty years when they originally put protections in place for grizzly bears, they came up with everybody sat at the table. They said, what does recovery look like? I wrote this op ed six seven, eight years ago. I don't know at that point in time, those recovery objectives had been met for twenty years, so there had been twenty years of recovery, still no movement on delisting. They Wisconsin or at that time Wyoming was spending more on each grizzly bear in Wyoming than Idaho spends on kids in public school. Right, like just it was time to delist the bear, which never got you listed. And in the when I wrote the op ed, they had turned up that I had hunted, that I had held grizzly bear tags for British Columbia, Alaska. So like you have to admit in your op ed that you have a vested interest because you have hunted for grizzly bears. They made me like point that out. So I'm here pointing out and I was trying to hide it just didn't seem germane to the subject. So I had to say, like, as a guy who you know has in the past hunted grizzies, I think the should delist grizzlies. Which the problem is then people read your op ed and all they want to do is write you mean letters because you hunted grizzlies. They wanted to say this for Steve, but I'm only without effects Steve so in pointing out that me and Yanni are deeply invested in our sturgeon tags, but I would feel the same way. But I would feel the same way. I should also point out that my kid caught a king salmon last year. Janni's not being a good podcast guest because he's very anxious to get back out hunting. You want to explain what's going on. 01:01:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, according to my clock here, we have about sixteen minutes until this thing needs go hit the cues deer. 01:01:24 Speaker 1: We're getting last day. Yeah, Dedicated podcast listeners will know that every year we do a podcast, we do an episode from Mexico. It's a tradition and we come down and talk about what a great time. We had all the bucks, we shot, all the bucks, we saw how awesome it is. It's like traveling back in time. Today's the good old days. It's like someday people look back on Sonora KU's deer hunting in the twenty twenties and they'll talk about it like it'll be like mule deer hunting Utah nineteen six. 01:01:56 Speaker 6: It'll never be good again. 01:01:57 Speaker 1: Ye, it'll be what you look back on, right, it'll be. It'll be Eagle County, Colorado in the seventies. I don't know right today, but not anymore. It's over and it was a good run. Twenty twenty three was the last good year. It's over. I don't know what happened. It's over. We have been pouring the coals to it. When we come down, we're in Sonara. We're further south than we've ever been before. I believe. We come down and the mantra is a buck a day and we gang hunt. We got a lot of people and the goal is every day we find a shooter bucking get it. And if you do a buck a day, that's the formula for success. Day one. Paul Bam Buckaday, I'm scheduled. It's sitting right there today. We need to kill four. 01:02:51 Speaker 2: In afternoon, and it is. 01:02:55 Speaker 1: Raining. 01:02:56 Speaker 3: It's not right now, but there's another cell that's probably an hour two out. 01:03:00 Speaker 4: Oh no, it's raining right now. It hasn't stopped right since we hit record. 01:03:05 Speaker 3: Is it raining out there? 01:03:06 Speaker 1: Gear Han Dirt can't hear you because he's digging the ear wax out of his ears to fix his lips. He's got a finger in each ear. You got dig deeper and deeper. You know, when your chapstick runs out and you gotta dig your fingernail down in there to like get the remnant that sits around that little prong in there. That's like digging into your ear the same motion. Just because you do it, you're pinky nail. 01:03:35 Speaker 6: He's gonna have to start working with tools for. 01:03:39 Speaker 3: I'm quite doing the ear digging ever since Grace Sturnament was on the podcast told us how bad it is to jam anything in there. I just let the ear wax go. 01:03:51 Speaker 1: See you run around the big old thing and Q tips What you been doing with those? I didn't know it was the worst thing you could possibly do at it. It's right up there with uh seed oils and low T. 01:04:07 Speaker 3: Three big changes from. 01:04:10 Speaker 1: He didn't know his low T. 01:04:13 Speaker 2: Definitely, I've learned a lot of things this truck. 01:04:18 Speaker 1: He didn't know some changes, making some change. He didn't know he was low TI. He didn't know that furries are taking over public schools, and people didn't. 01:04:26 Speaker 2: Know litter boxes in the in the classroom, and. 01:04:28 Speaker 1: He didn't know that you're not supposed to be digging around in your ear. 01:04:32 Speaker 2: I'm going back with an agenda making some changes. 01:04:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do a quick wrap up on the Mexico hunt. I've been talking a bunch about it. 01:04:41 Speaker 3: It's been a tough week, tough conditions. I think our our buddy Jay wants nothing more than to see us be successful. We can agree on that. 01:04:53 Speaker 1: Right correct. Jay has always treated us exceptionally. 01:04:57 Speaker 3: I'm one hundred percent sure, and I'm sorry for all of other clients, but I'm one hundred percent sure that we get a teeny tiny little bit of preference. 01:05:05 Speaker 1: Well, because we've been We've been in it from the get go. 01:05:08 Speaker 6: I know, Yeah, we've been clients. 01:05:10 Speaker 3: You're right, You're right, a guy, we're ten we're ten years in. I'm just saying we get a little bit of preference. 01:05:16 Speaker 1: We used to work for the guy. 01:05:22 Speaker 3: I'm just setting it up. 01:05:24 Speaker 1: I feel jumping to the end and I'm trying to expat I. 01:05:26 Speaker 3: Feel like we're in we're at a prime cous deer hunting ranch. They guided here for a few years before they went to letting DI. I Y guys come here and I think we're like the third or fourth DIY group here. And uh, yeah, we've caught a terrible week where it sounds like the rut is not happening anywhere in Sonora this week. Uh, the weather has been terrible for cous deer hunting. 01:05:54 Speaker 6: Were hate tremendous winds. You know, at times the optics are shaken so bad on a tripod. 01:06:01 Speaker 3: Looking back on it, I think day one was beautiful. It was really the only full perfect day that. 01:06:06 Speaker 1: We had big drought, right, Yeah, all the local drought stricken landscape that broke today. The drought ended today. 01:06:17 Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that we're hunting like in a valley that has a massive food source at the bottom, which is different. 01:06:24 Speaker 1: Than we've done. I've never been around any kind of. 01:06:28 Speaker 2: That you know, creates it, you know, with that with the drought, we. 01:06:32 Speaker 3: Had a place once they had those wheat fields in the bottom. 01:06:35 Speaker 1: But they weren't irrigated, were they They might have done some flood irrigation. 01:06:40 Speaker 3: Now yeah, yeahn had. 01:06:42 Speaker 1: A great point about why the rut. It's obvious that if you're having rot activities just gonna be better. But here here's a very particular thing that makes it better, would be the they're so hard to find even when you know, like let's say you know too deer are you're looking at a hillside, you're looking at the mountain side, and you know there's two deer on the mountain. 01:07:06 Speaker 3: Side because you saw them. 01:07:09 Speaker 1: You saw them, so you're looking at them, you see them. Most of the time, you don't, you can't see them right, right, Like if you watch two feeding deer four an hour, I don't know, you never figured out, but I would say like on average, for forty minutes of that hour, you can't. You don't. You can't see them. Yeah, maybe more in the whatever. If they're in the brush, right, they just they vanish. They're the gray ghost. And then sometimes you see them and even where you find one, and then you lose it. And never we had to happen. Yesterday I watched the deer go up onto an open hillside and took my eyes off it to look at a buck that I saw below. It went back to it could never locate it. So in that little bit of time it has it did something betted down went out of my view. I don't know they vanished the saving graces. You're able to detect movement. And if you watch a group of two or three dos or four or five does whatever, and they got a buck or two, that buck's chasing them. The buckets closed to him, the does run, the buckets closed to him, the does run, the bucks closed through the dose run. So when you're glass in the hillside, there's something to like, there's something happening to make a movement, and the movement is what you see. Then you find a dough. You're like, oh shit, a dough and you watch and you realize not just that, oh I just saw an ear move up behind it. I just saw this happen. Little things you would never known if you hadn't gotten a focal point of activity. Case of points yesterday, we knew about dirt spotted two dos, a doe betted, he spotted a dough feeding, and a dough betted next to it. A dog got up and fed laid down. That dough vanished for an hour, and we knew right where it laid down. You would never have known ed there. The other deer got up, shuffled, and laid back down in the same spot. When it laid back in the same spot, you couldn't find it. Eventually, those deer get up, and I even say to dirt, I'm just gonna our old. This is our only thing. I'm going to follow that deer that lead dough with my binoculars. And following that lead dough with my binoculars, I see a mountain lion come and set up out ahead of it to try to kill it. When that mountain lion finally jumps, it jumps and there was a deer I never knew about. A four key buck came squirting out of this bush that we never knew about until it came out because a mountain lion tried to grab it. That's like how much you miss or see it's hard. 01:09:32 Speaker 2: Last year we found Phelps's buck when a smaller buck was chasing does and then a bigger buck stepped out and you know, fought him, ran them off and took the doze. I mean, you never would have known the bigger buck was there unless the rod activity was fifteen hundred yards away, you know, up on the side of the mountain. We had no idea. The profile of all those. 01:09:56 Speaker 1: Deers lured him out, and it brought. 01:09:59 Speaker 2: Out even multiple other bucks that are attracted to that activity. And what was nice is it that activity going on allowed phelps to be able to sneak up there. They were busy, Yeah, you could make plays. 01:10:13 Speaker 1: And in the absence of that, they're all just laid under a tree. 01:10:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, you see zero. 01:10:17 Speaker 7: I mean last night, this morning, we've seen what between our group twenty five dos last night, twenty plus does today not a horn in the group. So it's like man, at some point, mature doe. 01:10:27 Speaker 2: Everywhere have to see them. 01:10:30 Speaker 1: They're just pushed back up in there somewhere. I told Krin this morning, I said, we're not gonna make a show. We're not gonna record a show today, or that's not how I put it. I said, what happens if we don't make a show today? And she said, you'll be fine, just focus on hunting, and then it started ransom bad. We can't make the show. So you people should be pretty happy with yourselves having this show comes that great tremendous sacrifice. 01:10:58 Speaker 3: It was cool seeing that, though I don't there's not I've only glassed that. That was probably the closest line I've ever glassed up. I think it was around one thy twelve hundred yards. To me, what was cool is when I first saw it is that I was just glass I just moved and I could see kind of lower towards the river than I had earlier. So I'm looking at this specific zone and all of a sudden it walks into my field of view, and I'm paying it along with it, and all of a sudden it stops, and literally ten yards above it, maybe fifteen, there's a coups deer standing there that I had not seen up to that point. So again it took me, like focusing on something else, to all of a sudden see this deer standing there. They're unaware of each other. The lion's looking like across the hill, the doe is looking straight up the hill, but she somehow senses the presence before the lion senses the deer's presence. She turns around, looks at it and goes, oh shit. And then takes bounding off, and what was funny is I don't know if it was like an optical illusion of being so far away or what, but there was like this delay where you'd think as soon as she made two bounds, the cat would be like, oh, I heard something right there, I should go after it. But instead she gets fifty sixty yards away, and then the cat's all of a sudden like oh what was that and starts going uphill kind of in that direction. Yeah. 01:12:16 Speaker 1: Do you believe me when I tell you that that there was two? 01:12:21 Speaker 3: Sure? Why not? 01:12:21 Speaker 1: I don't know? You saw it? 01:12:24 Speaker 3: You know what you saw. 01:12:25 Speaker 1: There's just no way that the one could have gotten around. Do you back me up on this? Really? 01:12:34 Speaker 3: You just saw it? 01:12:35 Speaker 1: What are you eating? 01:12:39 Speaker 4: Where was the bobcat? 01:12:44 Speaker 1: It's getting wet wilder huh, big old bobcat. Yeah. See, the mountaines is a lot of fun, and seeing him trying to strike a deer's a lot of fun. 01:12:57 Speaker 6: Yeah. You sure don't get to do that every day. I think twenty years of guiding, I maybe saw five lions that were not treed with dogs just incidental to hunting. I hadn't experienced one time very similar to you guys. I saw a couple of cow elk in a meadow and I could all of a sudden sense they were very alert looking below. And I was archery bull hunting at the time for elk, and of course, then as soon as I saw the cows were focused on something below, I thought, well, there's a good chance maybe there's a bull coming. And just moments later, a big tom lion came sprinting straight up hill across his meadow after him, but they were already onto him, and they were uphill, so the minute he cleared the brush, they were gone and they beat him out. And then I got to watch his line just great. I had a spotting scope on him, just beautiful. And he jumped up and he got on a flat spot and he was sitting there and his ears were down and his tails just flicking, and you could tell he was a mad cat. You know, the dinner was gone and he wasn't going to catch him. But the bad part of that, I had a little solo tent and I was about two hundred yards camp below o'er that time I was, And then I had to go back and think, now there's a hungry lion wandering around here and I've got to go sleep at night down there, but I never saw him again. 01:14:08 Speaker 1: It was interesting to watch this one work. That dough is uh. And now once that little fork he came out, maybe my interpretation what was going on, but he was a bobber and she was angling up the hill and he moved and got in the line of travel and laid down. And when he was moving, he's like very obvious, you know, just this orange blur going across, and he stopped. 01:14:34 Speaker 3: Orange. 01:14:34 Speaker 1: Those cats did look real orange. 01:14:37 Speaker 3: And you noticed like the black feet too, walking on. Those black feet were very noticeable, looked huge feet, looked huge. 01:14:46 Speaker 1: All right, we gotta get back out there. 01:14:49 Speaker 3: The last push I was wishing I had mingus with me. 01:14:53 Speaker 1: Oh you'd had a hot track, buddy, you'd had nowhere to trea it. 01:14:57 Speaker 3: We would have ended up in uh eight up situation. 01:15:01 Speaker 1: Unless it lest it that thing new to head towards the sycamores. 01:15:05 Speaker 3: Well sycamores were you know what even that oak that we were huddled under that uh, they could have gotten there. They could have gotten in that and gotten high enough away that the dog couldn't get to it. 01:15:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, thanks for joining everybody, we're gonna get back out and try one last little try. What's the forecast the rain? I thought it was supposed to get better. I thought it was supposed to get it. Is it actually raining right now? 01:15:32 Speaker 3: It's one hundred it's one hundred percent. But now it's saying at least that the accumulation is only like point one. 01:15:39 Speaker 1: Well, the other thing is the ceiling. The ceiling lifted. 01:15:42 Speaker 6: Yeah, it lightened up. 01:15:43 Speaker 1: You're gonna be on their feet right now. 01:15:45 Speaker 3: Felt Up said it's time to go. 01:15:47 Speaker 1: Felt Before we go, they'll give us quick update phelps game calls. What to look forward to? How's my moves tube coming? It's it's working. We like it. 01:15:55 Speaker 7: Yeah, we Uh, we had to make a little change. We were trying to do it like handmade. That just wasn't gonna be. We could make one day and it's just not not scalable. 01:16:01 Speaker 1: So I don't want that. I don't want that job. We did some glass filled nylon. We're gonna make some changes of that. 01:16:06 Speaker 7: And then we got some new updates to the deer call lines coming and uh, yeah, I'm I'm. 01:16:10 Speaker 1: You're not too you're not too like worked up about the moose call it's pretty it's like, well, just not a lot of not a lot of customers. 01:16:16 Speaker 7: It is My good buddy Matt, who's better business than me, would say like not a lot of profit and and a lot of not a lot of you're down on moose calls. 01:16:23 Speaker 1: No, just just the scalability. 01:16:24 Speaker 5: No. 01:16:24 Speaker 2: I told him you got to pick something where you're gonna sell a lot of them. Yeah, a lot of business may make you want for Steve doesn't pay. 01:16:32 Speaker 1: The bills, so I didn't buy it either. 01:16:37 Speaker 7: If we're making some changes there, I got some deer calls. I'm really excited for twenty five, which is we're planning you know, years and years out. Twenty four will be cool though, but like twenty five is like a lot of new stuff coming which is long ways out but excellent. 01:16:51 Speaker 1: We're working on It's uh, I want Phelps. Turkey's gonna do me a pot call where on the on the the the artwork is a turkey giving you the finger with a turkey hand. It's called the Bird the artwork. 01:17:07 Speaker 2: Claim that copy right right now? 01:17:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because it's not like it's hard to run it in a laser engraver. 01:17:15 Speaker 1: No, but you gotta be you gotta. I mean, it's hard to come up with an idea like a turkey giving you the finger. Actually not, because it's a quite common bit of my daughter has when we do them like that. If you want to do it, you take your take your turkey. Next time you kill a turkey or your kids kills a turkey, take a rubber band and bend it's two fingers down so it's middle fingers sticking out rubber band, the two fingers down as dry is. Just make sure you straighten that middle finger up a little bit and cock its wrist. So from you listeners that you people watch on YouTube, here's his arm. You cock them up. You go like this, put a rubber band here and just dunk it in a uh in some borax for a few days or not, depends on patient you are. And then eventually you get yourself a little wooden circle, a little plaque, and you drill a hole in it, and you run a screw up through the bottom into the leg and you set it on your desk, and it's a turkey giving you the finger. 01:18:15 Speaker 3: Are you hanging out when you sit on your desk? Is the bird then going straight up in the air? 01:18:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta look down on it for the full effect. 01:18:22 Speaker 2: My mother, though, my mother in law sent all my kids the finger emoji, you know, at Thanksgivings and Happy Thanksgiving, but she couldn't tell that it was a finger. She thought it was a turkey. My kids are like, you know, grandma's gears are slipping a little bit, happy things giving. 01:18:46 Speaker 3: Maybe she's eat eater listener. She knows about the Michigan. 01:18:51 Speaker 1: Hello, rock home from That means what's up? All right, Thanks everybody, We're gonna go. We're gonna go out on time. 01:19:03 Speaker 8: Read in mouth, say in town, don't get in in a hurry, since you ain't around. 01:19:15 Speaker 9: The creek's high as it's ever been. You're a blue quail. 01:19:22 Speaker 8: Look calm, warn all is friends that the shots are stopping. 01:19:29 Speaker 9: Is ground. 01:19:33 Speaker 8: Read in most to town, searching the guard in flight. Absence of love makes it hard to find. Got a big ye it all through today, the freshing of ice fans more bean seen say an imaginary Badmas side, searching the garden for life. Your affection for me like a flash. 01:20:27 Speaker 9: In the pans. 01:20:29 Speaker 8: It only as long as our flame, darling. We all know how that's sorry ends. 01:20:40 Speaker 9: So all right, my blues go away our till the end of the day. 01:21:13 Speaker 8: Spend all night. A picking gets are. 01:21:19 Speaker 9: Fresh. 01:21:19 Speaker 8: Smell of leather makes me thank you. Ain't for but your mind set on things much too Faine. 01:21:30 Speaker 9: Been a comfortbar like me. 01:21:33 Speaker 8: Underside, I can't wishes on every star. Spend all day. The picking gets are your affection for me, Like a flesh year, the pan lasted only as long as. 01:21:55 Speaker 2: Our flame. 01:21:58 Speaker 9: In Orleans. 01:22:00 Speaker 8: Oh no, that story end alright, silly end day, all right, silly endday.