00:00:02 Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Brody Henderson. You probably know me from kicking Stey's butt on Meet Eater's trivia show. When I'm not doing that, I'm part of the Mediatter publishing team and stoke to announce that our new book, Catch a Crayfish, Count the Stars, Fun, Project Skills and Adventures for Outdoor Kids is coming out June thirteenth. It's Media's first book for kids, and it's chuck full of activities and adventures that will help build serious outdoor skills start them young by teaching them how to build a wildlife, viewing blind, giga bull frog, and navigate through the wilderness. They'll also learn how to forage and grow their own food, build emergency shelters, hunt for fossils, gutfish, track animals, and much more. To celebrate the release of the book, Steve will be heading out on a little Book tour from June sixteenth to June twenty fifth, and he'll be signing copies of the books at Shields stores in Billings, Montana, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Omaha, Nebraska, Kansas City, Missouri, Dallas, Texas, Colorado Springs, Colorado, out Johnstown, Colorado, and Sandy Utah. Catch a Crayfish. Count the Stars is a must have book for any parent or caregiver who wants to get their kids off the couch and off their screens over those long summer days. It also includes activities for all different kinds of weather that'll keep them busy throughout the year. Visit the meateater dot com for tickets and we'll see you at Shields. 00:01:33 Speaker 2: This is the Meat Eater podcast, coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningst you can't predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt, First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, All Right. Recording from the Bahamas elbow K Can we say that? 00:02:04 Speaker 3: Said that? 00:02:05 Speaker 2: I was just reading it. When we whooped the British the first time, A lot of the I don't mean no disrespect to we whooped the British first time. A lot of the British came down and hit out here. Yes we think with that. We've been calling you tea and I know your name is Eryl. Yes, what's tea come from? 00:02:32 Speaker 3: Thurston? Thirst is my last name? Oh, Errol Thurston. That's right, that's right, and give. 00:02:38 Speaker 2: People a very quick snapshot of your life. 00:02:41 Speaker 3: Oh, we're born and raised here in the Bahamas, went away, went away to college, came back home, and I saw emt full a while. And then after that, you know, I started fishing and alan hopping and taking folks around for a little while to make a little extra money. And it just took my life over. And now we do it full time. 00:03:01 Speaker 2: And what's your social media handle? 00:03:03 Speaker 3: Paid to play all day? 00:03:08 Speaker 2: That is joined also by dirt Myth Who's gonna taste something in a minute? 00:03:14 Speaker 4: Oh that's coming up? 00:03:18 Speaker 2: And uh joined today by DreamCatcher, so funny some folks, Nora's Hogdog, Jimmy warrener Hi, Justin who's just somehow just justin. 00:03:38 Speaker 5: Cinematoskie. 00:03:40 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Cinematowski. You don't you You stay behind the scenes in the in the in the Justin Kimmey operation. 00:03:48 Speaker 6: Largely, Yeah, it seems a bit less controversial. Keep my mouth shut. 00:03:56 Speaker 7: Everyone just picking on me. He just has the true soul of a cameraman. That's how I would play it. 00:04:02 Speaker 2: I don't know when I get talkered out, and I don't want to make a dive. He's usually right handy to go. Pretty excited that that one. 00:04:09 Speaker 8: When Steve hand me the puspy, I'm. 00:04:10 Speaker 2: Like, shoots, yeah, I'll go that's good. And then Cameron is here dig in a little bit. People know you're from the spears Chef Spears No no, no, no, well that but I mean how I met, how I became aware of you is from the Campfire Story story. 00:04:32 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that's right. 00:04:33 Speaker 2: You can find him at Camp kirk Connell. Is it Camp kirk Connell yep, to follow his exploits. So Camera's been on the show before. Well, hold on it. Everybody's been on the show before except Tee. Camera's been on the show before, and then was introduced to folks on this podcast long ago because I think we yeah, we played your campfire story at the end of a podcast. I still haven't heard that one. I need to listen to that really, Yeah yeah I don't. Yeah, I could picture not listening. 00:05:03 Speaker 8: It's tough, but I mean, thank you guys for doing that, because I never have to tell that story again. 00:05:08 Speaker 2: You just refer people. 00:05:09 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's like if you want to hear it, man, go listen to it. Oh wait, we almost got one of you yesterday or today. We have some tough dives here. 00:05:18 Speaker 2: Last I was all right, Dirt, you ready to try it? Yep, okay, Dirt, myth is gonna dig in. We're working on he say, I don't know how much I want to say about this. We're working on a signature freeze dry meal, and I want it's to be all bison meat. I want to do a b I wanna. I want to a bison meat signature freeze dry meal, because if you're gonna eat a farm raised animal, that's just the one of that. That's the farm raised animal that I think is most interesting, not the hack on pigs and Coyle's saying like everyone thinks something's most interesting. I think bison are most interesting. A big fan of the story. And Dirt's gonna dig in because dirt can't lie. 00:06:10 Speaker 5: It's it's like it's a shot call, shot gobble. I don't think about my dirt can't why. 00:06:19 Speaker 4: And teasing of the device. 00:06:23 Speaker 2: That smells pretty good now listen, yeah but here here hear me out. Though. You gotta understand this is freeze dried food. Hey, I know, but but I mean there's like food and then there's freeze dry food. And years ago I wrote an article in Outside magazine about freeze dried food, like the history of it all, going back to the Vietnam War and the lurps, and got all into the space program. How they never how it would sometimes space ice cream went up, but no one none of that. No one ever ates uh space ice cream and outer space was never there. I went to a big freeze drive facility. We were in the lab, and he said, man, we freeze dried everything to see how it works. And he says, name something, and I said, I don't know capers right here? Oh really they had freeze dried everything. But what I came up to it by the end of the article is I'm like, you can't confuse like certain things are meant to be freeze dried. You can't make a freeze dried hamburger because think about the rehydration process the bun to get you know what I mean. Yeah, everything needs to rehydrate at the same rate. So what they do with that stuff is when you make a truly freeze dried meal, you make a meal that's ready to eat, so it's table ready. Then they put it on these sheets and they put it and they freeze it to a very specific temperature and that's actually proprietary. The speed, like it's proprietary, the humidity level and the chill because you want a certain type of ice crystal to form in the food. Then it goes into a sublimation chamber and they pull a vacuum on it and then the water sublimates, meaning the water inside the food goes from a frozen to gaseous state. It quits, it skips the liquid state. Like you remember those kids that they killed, Well they killed one of the girls and no man, the the Incans, Oh took these kids up to the top. I went to see one of their bodies in Salta in Argentina. But they so they took three kids up in this crazy ass story. So it's way no, it's on subject because they were a freeze drive. The kids were the Incans. This is like in fourteen nine. I mean not really, but this is like in fourteen ninety one, so pre contact. They had these three kids and they were able to do like stable isotope stuff off their bodies. And these threes kids said basically eating root vegetables their whole lives. And then they had this period of months where they were eating like meats and all kinds of other foods, and the Incings toured these three kids throughout the Incan Empire, and the kids collected up all these gifts and eventually took them up to the top of some peak. I can't remember how way high up made a rock shelter for him. There was a thirteen year old girl and someone hit her on the head with the tomahawk, like she changed her mind the last minute. But the other ones had no visible damage to them. They still had coca leaves dried to their lips because it helped you tolerate the high elevation. And they did like a sacrifice with them. 00:09:32 Speaker 4: Yep. 00:09:34 Speaker 2: But at that high I went to see that they can only show one body at a time, and when I went there, it was the child. I think it was the child that had been one of them had struck by lightning at some point in time. But at that high elevation, they they sublimated. 00:09:51 Speaker 4: Just slowly, they axated. 00:09:53 Speaker 2: They froze solid, and then gradually the gradually the moisture and went to a gas of state. And so it looks like they could stand like this child. We went to see it looks like it'd stand up and walk away. 00:10:09 Speaker 4: Wow, freeze drive room five hundred years or more. 00:10:14 Speaker 2: That brings me round to that meal. So they put it in this chamber. 00:10:19 Speaker 8: Listen, who's hungry? 00:10:21 Speaker 2: They put it, they pull a vacuum on it. Okay. And then when I went to this freeze drive plant, they pull a vacuum on it. And then you can take that food, lift it out of that tray and bust it like a sheet of glass. 00:10:35 Speaker 4: Really, you know, no moisture in it. 00:10:37 Speaker 2: No, no, And that is so point being if you put a bunch of burgers in there and then poured water onto a burger, what are you gonna have goulash? No, you're gonna have a soggy burger bun. 00:10:50 Speaker 4: Oh. 00:10:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. So when you see when you go into the freeze dry food place and they're selling like four wild mushroom Peruvian result or you know, you're like, come on, dude, it's freeze dry. 00:11:02 Speaker 4: Yeah it's not. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: It's like it's not the same thing. And so to make a good freeze dry meal, you have to be you have to be aware of the limitations of freeze drying. Like everything isn't good freeze dry. I don't know, probably maybe, but probably not. Shrimp cocktail not bad, I had it, but uh so dirt digging. 00:11:23 Speaker 4: Can we say what? 00:11:25 Speaker 2: No? 00:11:25 Speaker 4: Okay, I do like this? Got high calorie content, fro trips like that. 00:11:30 Speaker 2: All right, it's an old lie. Like you don't like it. It's easy. We just come back and tell me don't like it. 00:11:38 Speaker 8: I did eat. 00:11:38 Speaker 4: I've been eating amazing food. So this is this is gonna be accurate. Oh yeah, that is good. 00:11:48 Speaker 3: It's good. 00:11:49 Speaker 2: We'll see the. 00:11:52 Speaker 4: I got. 00:11:53 Speaker 2: I don't believe it is because nobody doesn't articulate words. 00:11:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, but you guys got me soakedyed up. That's good man. 00:11:59 Speaker 2: When he likes something normally, he just does like this. 00:12:02 Speaker 7: Is clearly. 00:12:05 Speaker 3: Keep smiling. 00:12:08 Speaker 4: I want I want to Can I grab some other spoons? Honestly? 00:12:11 Speaker 2: Oh no, I would like a spoon. Yeah, I would like spoon. 00:12:15 Speaker 6: I can grab them dirt if you want to keep going, because that is that. 00:12:18 Speaker 4: Was good man, Holy ship the borrow. 00:12:22 Speaker 2: While we get those spoons, I gotta cover off on some stuff. Uh T, you're gonna like one of these because one of these you have a snake phobia. Yes, tell folks about that, which makes no sense to me. You're not a scare of sharks. No, not at all, not a scare. 00:12:35 Speaker 4: To anything, not at all. 00:12:37 Speaker 3: Scared of snakes. Yes, I don't know snakes at all. 00:12:39 Speaker 2: You're in the right line of work because there's no snakes in the walk. 00:12:42 Speaker 3: I'm telling you, bro, anything that moves that fast with no legs, it's not for me. So it's not for me. 00:12:49 Speaker 8: I think I told you. 00:12:50 Speaker 2: Steve. 00:12:50 Speaker 8: The other day, I get a I get a pictures. He calls me. He's like, hey, there's a snake in the yard. I was like, okay, what do you want me to do about it. He's like, I need to know what it is. I was like, well, send me a picture of it. He doesn't even roll down the window to take a pictures. It's like, man, that's a black snake. It's gonna be fine. 00:13:12 Speaker 2: Frequent, frequent cause of death when they come in through the window. Yeah, you're right at the driver's seat. 00:13:17 Speaker 4: Don't let your guard down. 00:13:19 Speaker 3: Yeah, I got bird shot for him. 00:13:21 Speaker 2: A few more weeks, so a few more weeks of pre order yet. For our children's activity book, Catch Crayfish, Count Stars. You can get a couple of you guys, a lot of you guys have ordered one already, and I really appreciate that. And if you pre order here, here's why it helps me out. If you're interested, Let's say you just want to help Feller out. Let's say you know you're gonna eventually get it. Okay, you know you're gonna eventually get our kids activity book. Just do it now because it's super helpful because this way it'll all count like pre order. This is like a little snippet, little look in the book land. Pre orders count for bestseller New York Times bestseller List, every book bestseller list, every book you sell during the pre order period actually counts the first week. Okay, So if if if you're gonna get one, just get one now, and then it'll count the first week and it'll launch it on the bestseller list, which is great for me. It doesn't do anything for you, but it's great for me. But what it does for you, the listeners, it adds some certainty but when you get it, because it'll ship on pub date. So if you're gonna get it anyway, or you think you might be pregnant, or you're thinking about trying to get pregnant, get it now. If it doesn't work out, you can give it to someone else, your sister, I don't know, and uh, this way you'll you'll, you'll, you'll raise a you know, a kid who has a great opportunity to learn early on outdoor competency. Issues around wildlife identification, how to sneak up on stuff, basics and navigation from the sun the stars, how to grow stuff to eat, how to make their own frog gig, how to make their own blowgun, how to make their own bone air, a lot of stuff from a hardware store. Just the kind of kids you need to have around when times get hard. 00:15:16 Speaker 4: So I could use that book. 00:15:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, Dirt, you should get that book. It'd be great. Yeah, you'd be you'd be even more competent. Meton Aaron, he's been on the show a bunch of times. He's the anthropologist and if you went on YouTube and why, he's the experimental archaeologist. And if you went on YouTube many of you did to watch our our video about where we teamed up with some archaeologists to butcher a bison using stone tools, which is all right now on YouTube. You'll you'll see you'll meet Meton and he's from Kent State, University and runs the Experimental archae lot Archaeology Lab. He just published a paper that's interesting where it gets into the high rate of flint napping activity, the high rate of flint napping injuries among flint nappers, and he's it was this thing where they're looking at one hundred and seventy three contemporary flint nappers and what is the rate of injury in contemporary flint nappers and what might we learn about ancient flint nappers, because, as he points out in the article, people have been shaping stone for napping for three million years, practiced by hominin societies large and small at so even hominins besides humans nap flint. I made this point and something I was writing recently where there was a time if you were at a time in Europe where if you saw a fire people sitting around a campfire from a distance, you wouldn't know. You'd have to think to yourself, uh, well what kind of humans? And you might not know what kind of human they're cooking? Three million, three million years of flint napping, one hundred and seventy three contemporary flint nappers one fourth have had to seek professional medical attention for flint napping injuries. And he even postulates in this thing that that that you know, thousands of years ago, it's plausible that people would have died from flint napping injuries. Also contemporary nappers who completely lost the use of hands and arms from ligament and nerve damage. Uh, do you guys ever hear the story of Ishi? You know? Ishi, the last Ahi? Yahi was that? What was his tribe? 00:17:56 Speaker 7: I don't know much about him? 00:17:57 Speaker 2: In California, there was a pretty late here who's got here? 00:18:01 Speaker 4: I'll type it in got Google. 00:18:03 Speaker 2: Well, I just can't remember what. So he was the subject of a nineteen ninety three film. But in the early nineteen hundreds, Ishi, the last of the Yahi Indian tribe, his whole tribe was wiped out, okay, in warfare with the Whites. His whole tribes wiped out from disease and warfare. He hid out for twenty years in the mountains. In the early nineteen hundreds, after his whole tribe was thought to be gone, they found him and he oddly, I see, I saw this movie years ago. He oddly goes and lives like at a museum to show his life. Wise his museums, like I will take care of him. He was asked how he dealt with flint napping injuries, and someone said, like, what do you do when you get a napped flake in your eye? This is at the University of California, Berkeley is She indicated that he would pull down his lower eye lid with the left forefinger, being careful not to blink or rub the lid. Then he demonstrated he bent his head overlooked at the ground and gave himself a tremendous thump on the crown of the head. 00:19:19 Speaker 4: Oh, knock it right out of the eye. 00:19:20 Speaker 2: Out makes sense, does it? 00:19:22 Speaker 7: Don't want to smash it against your eyeball and see anything. 00:19:26 Speaker 2: Gave himself a tremendous knock on the head, and somehow maybe Lodge put the thing against the lid. One guy they were talking to it was a guy named Don Crabtree, not a subject from the study, but just in the Review of Literature, described one of the injuries he received while attempting to recreate the fulsome fluted point. He was trying to figure out how fulsom hunters removed the flute, and he tried a method called what he calls the short crutch method, the unfluted pre form collapsed and he roll of the antler tip pressure tool right through the palm of his left hand. More recently, a napper John Whittaker, with a small piece of stone, managed to uh sever both his sublimists and profundest tendons with a single flake in one of his hands. So there you have it. 00:20:24 Speaker 4: Damn. But you had to make that. You had to do it to make the tools. Yeah, no getting around that. 00:20:32 Speaker 2: Uh So that's interesting, But I don't really know if you talk. Here's the thing about it that I keep thinking about. If you went and sent a survey to one hundred and seventy three chefs more than twenty five percent cut themselves, will have sought professional medical attention. There's no way, hundreds. If you sent to one hundred and seventy three chefs more than a quarter, I'm going to tell you that they saw it profession medical care from knife injuries. Have you Kimmy, No, I haven't, Steve, I'm not a chef. I'm gonna cook. 00:21:08 Speaker 8: Well, what about the guys cleaning fish, because I mean, in the years of cleaning fish, I mean I've cut myself so bad multiple times that you know I've needed help. 00:21:16 Speaker 2: I've sought professional medical care over fish fish in Yeah, but not fish. 00:21:22 Speaker 8: Cleaning fish in what do you mean fish in? 00:21:24 Speaker 2: Oh? When I was a little kid, I got a hook real bad and my thought I had to cut it. Looked at scari. 00:21:30 Speaker 7: I had to seek medical help over fish cleaning. But not because I cut myself with a knife, but because the fish spine got stuck so deep in my hand and broke. 00:21:39 Speaker 2: Off and had to dig it out. Yeah, we know we had to have our little boy lately. I should have called you when we were trying to figure out about this. He stepped on a black urchin. He got three of them in his foot, and man, that crippled him up pretty good. Oh yeah, and eventually they just came out in his shoe. Yeah yeah, man. My wife likes to like squeeze any kind of things like that. She wore all her welcome to That kid chased him around, chased him around with a fat bag razor and a pair of tweezers for three weeks. That kid got to bed. He saw his buy come when he was out the other door bags. 00:22:22 Speaker 3: He knew what she was gonna do. 00:22:25 Speaker 2: Trying to dig that stuff out of bottom of his poor little foot. Uh. Florida right to hunt and fish? T Yes, Sir Cameron. You guys are Florida residents and hunting buddies. We hunted home to you hunt. You guys hunt to get at home to we get our. 00:22:42 Speaker 8: Two knucklehead boys and the woods together and watch them. It's hilarious. 00:22:45 Speaker 2: Great Florida could become the twenty fourth state to establish a constitutional right to hunt and fish. 00:22:54 Speaker 6: Uh. 00:22:54 Speaker 2: The Florida State Legislature passed a resolution which refers the questions to voters. The resolution would add a twenty eighth section to the Declaration of Rights in the Florida Constitution to say that hunting and fishing this is how these things were. There's a couple things to say about these things. I'm supportive of them, but they have their limits. But first off, here's what they are hunting. It okay be a constitutional amendment say that hunting and fishing are the preferred means for responsibly managing and controlling fish and wildlife, and shall be preserved forever as a public right. The amendment would not limit the powers of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission to regulate hunting and fishing. So this keep that in mind, because there in lies the there in lies the Rube. Vermont was the first state to constitutionalize such a right in seventeen seventy seven. To bring this back to this key here you guys call them k's or keys key, to bring it back to this key here one year after those defeated Brits headed this way. Oh no, because it took us a while to whoop them. They might not have been here in seventeen seventy seven, but Vermont, still in the height of the revolution, made a constitutional right to hunt and fish. Since then, twenty two states have adopted constitutional amendments creating a right to hunt and fish. Alabama after a couple hundred year hiatus on making the laws, Vermont being seventeen seventy seven, Alabama following up two hundred and man, that's hard math. 00:24:44 Speaker 8: Two hundred and twenty. 00:24:48 Speaker 2: One years later, Alabama became a state with a right to hunting fish. The most recent and we covered this on the pod shows how long this show's been on the air. The most recent amendment was on the twenty twenty ball in Utah, which we covered. I think we even had the guy that wrote that bill come on the podcast and it was approved by seventy five percent of voters. Here's a weird one. Arizona rejected theirs in twenty ten. 00:25:21 Speaker 4: That is surprising. 00:25:22 Speaker 2: No Arizona rejected it. It usually always passes. So the constitutional amendment was introduced in the Florida State legislature is House joint resolution, and no one ever cares about that. In February, the House approved the amendment by a vote of one, sixteen to zero. Incredible. 00:25:43 Speaker 4: Yep. 00:25:45 Speaker 2: The Senate thirty eight to one. I'd like to meet whoever. But here's the deal. It then has to go on and get so it passes unanimously. It's nanimously, unanimously agreed by the House to put this forward as a vote one dissenter in the Senate, and now it has to go overcome the hurdle of sixty percent popular vote. Jeez, here's the good and the bad of these things. I think it's a great thing. I think it's a great gesture. I think every state should do it. Should be fifty states do it. They should bring it back up in Arizona and do it. The problem is, I don't know at what point it would have teeth, meaning I could be wrong about this. I don't think a state has ever sued a fish and game has ever successfully sued against a fish and game prohibition. By being able to point to the constitutional right to hunt and fish and knowing that your rights to hunt and fish, you lose them in a piecemeal fashion. You lose them in like the classic slippery slope fashion that if you have a state that has a constitutional right to hunt and fish and then they go to take away one year rights, they're going to the first thing they're gonna do, which they always do, they're gonna say, Okay, you can't hunt mountain lions with a dog, and then they can't hunt black bears with a dog, and then it'll be you can't hunt black bears at all, Then you can't hunt mountain lions at all. Then you can't hunt any kind of cat at all. Then you can't hunt anything using a dog at all. You know, it goes like that, And I can't think of and we spent some time time with this before, I can't think of anyone that's ever gone and said, wait a minute, you are at the point now where you're violating the constitutional right to hunt and fish because remember it doesn't supersede fishing games rules. So you could have a constitutional right to hunt fish in Washington State, and then you could have a commission like what's emerging in Washington State, where you're having a game commission full of anti hunting people and anti fishing people. Remember Washington State, when the pandemic began, they made a rule that you can't fish even if you had a pond in your backyard. It was illegal in Washington State to go fish in the pond by yourself in your yard during the pandemic. That didn't come from the game commission, but they have. Washington State's attitude is under Governor Ininsley. The attitude is that the Game Commission should represent all interests, including the animal rights movement. So you could have you could have something written similarly in Washington State, but it's saying but it can't impact fishing game or they sit outside of the thing. So at some point the two interests are going to diverge, and at some point someone's going to need to cry foul that a state has run a monk of its constitution by nitpicking hunters and anglers through fishing game rules, or you can screw hunters and anglers through ballot referendums. So at what point if you do a ballot referendum that says no bear can and be hunted, who wins the constitutional right to hunt and fish that ballot referendum or the ballot referendum that said you can't hunt bears. 00:29:11 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:29:13 Speaker 2: I could picture a future in which I don't even want to say this because so far out I'm gonna say, I don't want anyone to think I'm actually saying this is true right now. But if let's say in the future, it became that I let's say in the future, fifty years in the future, it became that it actually became illegal to hunting fish, and you had given up all hope on fishery fishing game management, and it just became illegal to hunting fish, divorced from any consideration of the health of wildlife. Like let's say there's a nuclear holocaust and it killed off all the fishing game, and they said, Okay, we're gonna not hunt and fish for a long time because the nuclear holocaust killed all the fishing game. You'd probably say, yeah, that makes sense. There's no fishing game because all out newt But let's say everything's pretty fine and you can't do it. I think most people I hang out with would become vigilante hunters and anglers probably, and then maybe they would be able to at that point point to those those of us who live in states with the constitutional rights the hunt and fish. We'd point to the thing and say, we made a deal that we are allowed to do this. 00:30:24 Speaker 4: Has Montana got that? 00:30:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know one of the state what state was going to do it? One state that recently did it, was going to put trapping on there and backed out at the last minute. So they kept at the hunting fish and yeah, they bet they chickened out at the last minute. I think it might have been Utah chickened out. 00:30:43 Speaker 4: I'm just worried it caused too much. 00:30:46 Speaker 2: You know, they're careful of their bedfellows. They were carefully. They don't want people who practiced the dark arts being in the room. 00:30:55 Speaker 4: Man. 00:30:55 Speaker 8: So, so for Florida, do you think that by doing this it's going to more are so protect our right to hunt and fish? 00:31:04 Speaker 2: In theory, I think theoretically yes, I'm just looking forward to and maybe there's already one that I'm not aware of, and if there is, I'm sure someone will write in and tell us. And if you know of one, please write in and tell us. I'm not aware of a situation to date. It's anticipated it will happen. I'm just not aware of a situation to date where a state where someone went to do something in a state and then the state Supreme Court said, like, you can't because of the constitution right to hunt and fish. So it'll happen, right, It'll definitely happen at some point, But to date, it's like that that overarching constitutional protection. I don't think it's ever been used. Like meaning, let's say I say to you, you start a new you start a new spearfishing website, an opinion website in the government, and the state says, I'm going to cut years off because I don't like what you're saying. And they'd be like, whoa, because he has his First Amendment rights. And then they'd be like, oh, damn it, that's right, he gets to keep his spearfishing website. I don't think that that's happened yet with state constitutions, like where someone did something and then it was it was combated through the it'll happen. I'm sure. I can't wait till it happens. 00:32:23 Speaker 8: So it's kind of a preemptive move on all these states part starting in seventeen seventy seven. 00:32:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, just in case I would like to. I would probably write it in such a way that would not pass. But I would like to take a stab at writing one of those. So if you want of the states that hasn't done it, and you want someone who has no idea, you want someone ask no idea how to write legislation, I would love to take a stab. Here's a great one. This will be a play, will you boys from Florida too? Soap can make humans more attractive to mosquitoes. Check this out. So this is just published in the journal Science Eye Science. 00:33:12 Speaker 4: Okay, well you just stitched cam. When Steve said that. 00:33:16 Speaker 8: I know, because he hates mosquitoes, I'm so afraid of him. He hates he hates mosquitos born ticks. Yeah, because you spend a lot of time. 00:33:25 Speaker 2: You spend a lot of time overseas or some mosquitos where I was like, legit, Yeah, okay. They had volunteers who submitted fabric samples that they had worn either unwashed or after washing with four different brands of soap. You following, Yep, they tear the sleeve off, so you wear the so you washed with a kind of soap, wear it. Let me get this straight. Recruited four volunteers who submitted fabric samples that they had worn as a sleeve while either unwashed or after washing with four different brands of soap. Dial heard of it? Dove heard of it? Native anyone? 00:34:19 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:34:19 Speaker 2: Native soap? 00:34:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, my son, that's what do you use? 00:34:22 Speaker 2: Simple truth? 00:34:24 Speaker 3: You never heard of it? 00:34:25 Speaker 2: Now, that's a good name for soap. It's a simple truth. 00:34:29 Speaker 4: It doesn't work. 00:34:30 Speaker 2: It's a simple truth. I'd make one called objective reality. Simple truth, just the simple truth. You ever heard of that soap? No one? 00:34:39 Speaker 4: No? 00:34:40 Speaker 2: Okay. So we all know that female mosquitos are the only ones that bite. They're the only ones that feed that need blood. They need blood when they're developing their eggs. However, they cannot get blood and still successfully hatch. But they have a much higher likelihood of hatching if they can get blood to fertilize, not to fertilized like from the mail, but to feed their egg. So even if she doesn't bite, a caribou or you or whatever. She could still be successful. She has a much higher likelihood of being successful. She gets blood. Then they take these sleeves. They put them in this tank full of skeeters. Remember that song there, Pete or not. My kids all know that. My kids all know that song. There's another my brother. There's a dozen on my cousin. And I think they're really buzzing. 00:35:41 Speaker 4: You make a sweat. 00:35:43 Speaker 2: The fabric was used. Okay, So they don't even want the person present. They just want to put their sleeve in the tank. Because one thing that's known is that exhaled carbon dioxide is attractive to mosquitoes warm air. They detect warm air coming out. You're buying their attract to it. So they didn't want people. They just wanted to know, like, what is the fabric soap thing? W Here's okay, here's the meat of it. Washing with dove dial and simple truth increased the attractiveness of some, but not all, volunteers. Now this is a great plug and I have no relationship with this soap company. Native never even heard of them. 00:36:32 Speaker 5: Well, you Southern boys did, both of you repels mosquitos. 00:36:37 Speaker 2: Here's why they think it could be linked to its coconut scent, as there is some evidence that coconut oils are a natural deterrent for skeeters. That's a fact that's interesting. 00:36:53 Speaker 3: But that is one hundred percent fox. 00:36:55 Speaker 2: You know that's true. 00:36:56 Speaker 3: I know it's true. Coconut is here in the island One of the biggest ways to get mosquito is you take a old dried coconut, bust it in half, and you put coals in it. And it's one of the best bug repelling elbow. Oh yes, just you just put coals and it put a couple of coals inside a coconut shell. 00:37:13 Speaker 2: So it heats those oils up. 00:37:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it just slowly smallers into smoke and it works. 00:37:19 Speaker 8: There's some other tree that grows here and in the islands. Came in islands as well. They used to burn at night. 00:37:26 Speaker 7: Well, in Tahiti they make monnoy, which is roasted coconut oil, and I was told that, I mean, the tahesions just use it on their skin with the smell so good. It makes your skin nice and you can put in your hair. But I was told there that it also detures mosquites. 00:37:44 Speaker 8: I'm in I'll try it. 00:37:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Native soap bystock and Native Soap. A doubt it's publicly traded, but they you can figure out. 00:37:53 Speaker 7: I just get cocing it oil. 00:37:55 Speaker 3: There you go. 00:37:57 Speaker 2: Uh T, you're gonna like this one. This is the snake one. Remember I told you I want you to come on the show just because this. I don't mean to hold to play the snake phobia. 00:38:06 Speaker 3: That's all right, I'm a game. 00:38:09 Speaker 2: Okay. We did some background research on this one too. You know Moulan how do you say it? Moulin Rouge. They have been in Paris. The Moulin Rouge cabaret club in Paris has been forced to drop a long running snake act and never been there. Apparently there's a thing they do there. 00:38:33 Speaker 3: You know. 00:38:34 Speaker 5: There's a bar in Montana, the sipping Dip was that? Oh yeah, in Great Falls? The Mermaid Bar. 00:38:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, where you can drink and the hole behind the bar is the aquarium, and and ladies in mermaid suits to. 00:38:47 Speaker 7: Be one of those. 00:38:49 Speaker 2: I can't believe you didn't do it. I didn't such a different wonderful job. 00:38:53 Speaker 6: You'd have to move to Vegas, wasn't it? 00:39:00 Speaker 3: Get fish? 00:39:02 Speaker 6: She too can spear your dinner she. 00:39:04 Speaker 2: Got off the window. 00:39:10 Speaker 7: A different one. 00:39:11 Speaker 2: You've done it. If it was the Montana, they had a great We used to go there back in back when I patronized bars and the sipping dip. Yeah, they had the people, the gals swimming in the mermaid suits and then they had a piano player. Anyways, in this one, this Moulin Rouge outfit there in Paris, they have a thing where they put snakes in a tank and then the swimmers get in and swim with and and swim with and sort of like frolic with the snakes. 00:39:52 Speaker 4: Water water snakes. 00:39:53 Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. The animal rights folks got all up in arms. All other problems on Earth having been taken care of, they have they have decided that this has taken it too far. This has taken it too far. So after they they caved, the Moulin Rouge Cabaret club caved and said that as of today they permanently ended the snake number. Now, the whole meat of it here with the animal rights movement was that these were terrestrial snakes. They didn't want to be in the water. Southeast Asian reticulated snake, in the Indian python they live on land, so you're torturing them by putting them in the water. Krinn took this to a snake expert's been on the show. Bob Reid, who has spent as an entire career dealing with snakes around the globe, is currently involved in doing work with the USGS around the Burmese python invasion and does behavior, population modeling and everything. Bob Reid, when asked what he thought about the argument that these snakes don't like water, he said, in short, these two python species spend lots of time in the water, and to call them terrestrial, as if that means they have trouble swimming, is eff and silly. 00:41:37 Speaker 7: I believe that. Remember justin when we were in Malaysia and the python thing climbing climbed in my lap, Yeah, and then I freaked out and whacked it off. And then it was supposedly a lean python, but it swam really well in the water. So I'm right up to another boat and climbed in. 00:41:57 Speaker 2: And the reticulated python GE's out in Singapore Indonesian Malaysian borneo. The reticulated python is frequently found in sewers. It's an excellent swimmer. They actually use water as an escape route uh an escape place, and the Indian pythons, nocturnal mainly terrestrial, are excellent swimmers, quite at home in the water. They can wholly submerge for many minutes, but often linger near the bank either way. Either even I don't know what I'm complaining about. I was if I had a trip line up to go watch the ladies sing those snakes, though I'd be bummed out. I don't know. 00:42:51 Speaker 8: I would argue, I'd love to hear from your herpetologist guy. But every snake's gotta be able to swim. 00:42:57 Speaker 2: Oh that it's hard to picture a snake that just can't. 00:43:00 Speaker 4: Florida. 00:43:00 Speaker 8: Every steak in Florida can swim, I promise you that. Yeah, because it floods, like the whole place floods. But I mean, even the snakes in the desert. I bet you've chucked them in water. They'd figured out. 00:43:13 Speaker 2: The only one. I can't think of it, I'm sure, but no, because you have all kinds of rattlesnakes in Florida, and they probably I mean, they can't. If they can't swim them, what are they gonna do? 00:43:20 Speaker 8: Oh, they can swim them really good. 00:43:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen it. 00:43:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a couple of corrections where we had stuff wrong. While I applaud y'all's recognition of the hero epic is universal and older than the dirt, not older and dirt myth, but just the actual dirt. Thirty nine, there's one major myss that I hope would have coming up. I'm fumbling this whole thing. We had a guest on Jackcar, novelist, and he was Jackcar was pondering the universality of the hero epic and certain stories that seem to be in every mythology. You have human civilization that have no clear connection to one another, Great Flood Garden of Eden, and Jack was something about the idea of a hero going into a cave, going into hiding, like like Jesus has his time in the desert. All these different cultures and in Great Plains and Native American tribes in the Great Plains, you would go on a vision quest, you go out, you might build a shelter, you might go into a rock shelter, and you you go without food and water to you're in a hallucinatory state. You come back, perhaps in some cultures, you then take a name, right, You then decide what kind of person you're going to be. So this idea of this, this, this idea of this human story in which you go into a cave and you're you're transformed, and you find these all around the world, And we're pointing to the fact that that they're all around the world. So how is it that that so many people independently came up with this idea? This this gentleman Mister Hernandez that wrote in points out that we missed discussion of the epic of Gilgamesh, which goes all the way back to ancient Sumatra, to the very beginning of human civilization and Mesopotamia. Originally an oral epic that was later compiled and written down centuries before any modern religious text. In ancient Acadia, it's a hero's epoch. It has the Great Flood, it has the Garden of Eden, it has an arc. It also has a Homer type journey at the hands of the gods. So insummation, all human civilization did have a common link, which would explain why so many disparate cultures have common themes in their backstory. I don't mean to like, I don't mean I told you so to mister Hernandez, and I really appreciate the note, but that would not account for Native American groups. That would not account for anything else out of that would not account for anything out of the Western hemisphere. Good idea, though. Another correction. Fastest wind speed recorded on Earth, I said it was recorded on Mount Washington in New Hampshire. 00:46:18 Speaker 4: That's what I thought. 00:46:19 Speaker 2: Well, here's what he's pointing out. So in Oklahoma, May third, nineteen ninety nine, they had a F five tornado hit three h two. But when everybody says the highest wind speed ever recorded, it usually goes by non typhoon. I thought, it goes by non typhoon. 00:46:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what. 00:46:40 Speaker 2: Non non typhoon like a natural wind, right. 00:46:43 Speaker 8: They differentiate between a sustained and then like a tornado or hurricane or something like that. And tornado, I mean, good lord, they gotta be crazy. 00:46:52 Speaker 5: Well, our taxi driver getting here, said Dorian, reached three hundred miles per hours. 00:47:00 Speaker 2: Camera made the cigarette smoke. 00:47:03 Speaker 8: Blow col bullshit. 00:47:07 Speaker 2: Well this so this hit three to zero two and apparently that's the highest recorded. 00:47:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's fast. 00:47:14 Speaker 2: To you st talk about losing your home to a to a to a hurricane. 00:47:18 Speaker 3: Ain't not much to say. It's gone. 00:47:21 Speaker 2: Damn yeah, right down to the gun safe. 00:47:24 Speaker 3: Everything gone, just flat, flat foundation done, all your stuff, everything, everything. I came back and even when I flew Oval, flew like five days later, and the only thing that was really recognizable was my boat from the air. It wasn't where it was, but my boat had I painted to flow on my boat blue like a sky blue. I flew Oval and I was like, oh, there's my boat. 00:47:54 Speaker 4: Damn nothing else. 00:47:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was the only thing I had a starting point, you know. And after getting on the ground, and they four or five days later after that, they got on the ground and it's like, all right, let's stop looking. 00:48:08 Speaker 2: So where do you think your stuff is? 00:48:11 Speaker 3: Only God knows. I know in my in my room it was a box. But like old high school pictures and prom pictures and stuff, it was found, not it was found. Probably it was found an area called Leisurely. Leisurely is about twenty five miles off. Some kids were just cleaning up one day and found pictures and stuff scattered and a big and stuff, and they sent me a picture of it and I said, holy crap, that's me. And there's pictures of me twenty years ago, like prom pictures and stuff twenty five miles away from my house. 00:48:49 Speaker 2: But this surprise isn't You probably can't answer this. But with whole islands where everything was carried away, how come when we're diving, how come it's not just like furniture and off the door were like where does it go? 00:49:05 Speaker 3: Okay? So off the door in I've got great go pro footage of me on a jet ski And there was mattresses as far as you could see here in the Sea of Bobaco. They got water logged. They end him sinking. It was I mean tons of them everywhere. The only thing that was left in the Sea of Abaco basically was trees. That was it. All of the all of the material like doors and roofs and stuff. All the stuff got sucked out. Everything got sucked out and our before the storm touchdown, how the harbor of Marshall was empty. It's like the all the water receded and when it came back, it came with us and it picked man it It wiped out the whole town of marsh Harbor, all the way the Continua port was and stuff, everything that got washed on in and when the eye came over and the Swiss direction everything blew on out. 00:49:56 Speaker 4: Yep. 00:49:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, we came here and we had two helicopters with us. We had a caravano, like thirty thirty five boats. We had two helicopters with us on a little plane and we had them putting in GPS points on stuff they see and it were quiet. It's like, guys, there's nothing you guys could just run, nothing in front of you, just keep running. Yeah, and it was nothing, and they were one hundred percent right. I think we found like one one mini vine maybe that was kind of floating, but other than that, all the way from Stuart, Florida to here, it was nothing. It was nothing, absolutely nothing. 00:50:28 Speaker 8: When we've been diving, we've been seeing stuff like there's parts of houses, parts of like roofs. I mean we've been constantly. 00:50:35 Speaker 2: I've seen some of that. I thought some of that was lobster condos. 00:50:38 Speaker 8: Some of it is, but the smaller chunks, especially when we were in those channels. 00:50:42 Speaker 2: Yep, there was a bunch. No I did, Yeah, you're right, you know I did. For some reason, I registered all that as lobster condos. Stuff that people set up set out. 00:50:50 Speaker 8: And it has gotten better, obviously, because a big storm will come through here with ten foot seas and move all that stuff around again. 00:50:56 Speaker 3: But up here in the. 00:50:56 Speaker 8: Sea of Avoca, a lot of these trees and stuff like wh I'm running up in the tower. You can see all the trees still, which is wild, you know, to see a tree out randomly. So I've got the info on Hurricane Dorian. It tied for the strongest landfall in the in Atlantic basin. It's regarded as the worst natural disaster in Bahamas recorder history, one of the most powerful hurricanes recording the Atlantic, with one hundred and eighty five miles per hour sustained. 00:51:25 Speaker 5: Wins Well, I wonder what constitutes sustained, like a time. 00:51:32 Speaker 4: That is crazy? 00:51:33 Speaker 8: One minute? 00:51:34 Speaker 2: One minute that counts sustained. You know, when the tsunami hit Japan, it took I can't remember if it was eighteen months or two years, but that stuff started to beach up in southeast Alaska and we started finding a lot of stuff. It was a long time later, it must have been. It might have been too I think it was two years later that we would start finding all kinds of stuff. 00:52:00 Speaker 5: Where's the Where's is Africa? Where that stuff would hit or does the golf ticket somewhere else? 00:52:06 Speaker 8: I think North Carolina got a bunch of like all the trash ended Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Carolina. 00:52:12 Speaker 3: Once the trash came with, Like from where we're sitting right now, these inlets that you see right here, there are two main inlets. Once stuff get pull out of there, the primary current run from south to north. 00:52:24 Speaker 2: Oh okay, I was doing a lot of that stuff. 00:52:26 Speaker 3: Like camp set will end up off of the Carolina. So what don't end up off the Carolinas'll actually end up off of Bermudo and that's where do you go. And then from Bermudo over the Portugal And well yeah, but like camps had a lot of boats and stuff that was here. What didn't get put in the pine forest ended up in the Carolina. Yeah, a lot of it. 00:52:45 Speaker 2: So some dude in the Carolinas is cooking with your pants and stuff. 00:52:49 Speaker 3: Hey, I hope you enjoy them. I hope you enjoy them. 00:52:54 Speaker 4: Oh. 00:52:54 Speaker 2: Some guy wrote in about a really good thing that I'm saying good because we struggled with the same thing the spring. It's a great question, uh, he says. This past week I was turkey hunt on a large tract of state forest in northern Pennsylvania. Round eleven am. He picks up a gobble, gets some positions, sets up. Fifteen minutes later here he comes big old strutter. The thing was no beard. When the bird got to fifteen yards he could even see spurs. The regulations in Pennsylvania the same where I had this discussion of Michigan the spring, they identify a male as being a bearded bird. So you can go like, like, if you go look at your deer regulations wherever you live, or your turkey regulations where you live, they might say, and like they might say a male, you might get a tag that says good for a male deer, or you might get a tag that says good for an antler deer handler lists or antler lists. Right, So they're they're not they're defining a buck not by not by sexual organs. They're defining it by the presence or absence of antlers turkeys. In a lot of states they define it not by is it a male, is it a female? So this is on the spring, essentially it's male only. You can only kill what we call gobblers or males in the spring. Well, what makes a male a male. What the states say is a lot of states say it's the presence of a beard. Of a beard, which cuts both way way is meaning it's legal. If you live in a state where it says you can kill a bearded bird, you can kill a bearded hen. And depending on where you're at, it could be five, six, seven, eight percent of all hens have a beard. Knows they're all legal to kill. But what do you do in a situation where you have like this guy, it's a strutter, it's gobbling, it's fanned out, but there's no beard. We had this conversation because my body's farm has a beardless turkey on it, and we talked and talked and talked and talked and talked about what someone would do if they're presented with a shot by the beardless turkey. And I never I was like, I think it would depend a lot on the mood of the game. 00:55:20 Speaker 9: Work, because I mean, like, you get checked and you're holding the turkey and it's got inch long spurs, big old redhead, twenty five pounds, but there's no beard, Like does he cite you? 00:55:38 Speaker 3: What are you doing? Cam? What are you doing? 00:55:43 Speaker 8: I played by the rules, but a lot of times if you see that fan, you see that redhead, he's going down. 00:55:47 Speaker 3: You're not even thinking about the smoking. 00:55:51 Speaker 2: And then when a turkey's strutting, his beard will sometimes lay in that little creek like knowing that I like and all, I've done a lot of turkey hunt and when a strutter comes in, I do not think to verify the presence of it. But apparently you should. 00:56:08 Speaker 4: Could you claim me you shot it off? Maybe so, I don't know. 00:56:12 Speaker 2: I'm sure a game warden. If you're a game warden out there and you've cited people for shooting beardless gobblers, I would love to hear about it. This guy is like I have to think a CEO wouldn't be understanding. 00:56:26 Speaker 3: But it's a. 00:56:26 Speaker 2: Great thing because I like, I'll check for beards in some situations. But if he's like strutting and goblin, how many times have you shot a turkey be the only thing you see is his head. 00:56:35 Speaker 8: Coming head in the tail like that the. 00:56:37 Speaker 2: Tail fan Like you're like, that's all I need to know about. Yeah, it's a great question. And as far as I know my buddy's farm, no one even got a chance at the beardless gobbler. For a while. My wife hates for a while, her nickname was the bearded hen. She doesn't have a beard. She doesn't have a beard, but uh my daughter shot a beard at hend and we started to call them their mom the beard at hen for some reason. All right, where do we start? I want to start with this, if it's fine with you, guys, sigtara. I know it changes around the world, but walk me through. I'll put it this way. How come in the Gulf of Mexico barracout like there's a commercial market for Barracuda's people. You can go to You go to my buddy Jesse's restaurant in Texas, and on the fish fry night he does a fish fry. I think every week he does a fish fry. He renders his own beef lard, does a great fish fry. Sometimes they got barracuda on the menu. And in other places they tell you if an ant, if an ant won't eat a Barracouta, it's because it has sigara like break down singatara. 00:58:00 Speaker 8: Sigutara grows, it starts, it starts from dead coral, so like a hurricane just came through here. So whatever corals here is probably gonna be dead because it got abused by rocks and everything in the rough weather. So this area especially is going to have a lot of challenges with SIG because what happens is the dead coral dies, then there's this type of algae that grows on that dead coral that has the whatever toxin in it. Little three fish eat that it accumulates in their body, and then the big predator fish start eating that. So the ones we're afraid of here are those big kuberras, which are basically over twenty pounds barracudas. All locals eat barracudas, and they'll eat big ones too, they do. But we're t and I are knocking wood again, have never been hit by it because we are uber safe with it, so small barracuda and a lot of times they'll say these ones that are inside on the grass are fine, but you know, those things. 00:58:57 Speaker 2: Go back though. He's like he's like committed himself to not go out. 00:59:00 Speaker 8: He's like, I'm not going out there with everybody else getting thick the big groupers and the challenges. I mean, in this week we've seen six different kinds of groupers. So a tiger grouper that's fifteen pounds, a black grouper that's fifty pounds, a Nassau grouper that's twenty pounds, or all the same age. You know, they're all pretty old fish. It's just species specific. So I'll eat a tiger grouper that's five six pounds. I'm not going to eat one bigger than that, because you're the they get old and they get a long tail like the real broom tailey man, those are going to knock you down. And the groupers. It's a tough one because there's certain parts of the Bahamas where we dove last time. You can shoot a fifty sixty pounder, no problem, you're not going to get it. But here, if you shoot a fifty sixty pounder, you're running a pretty good risk getting hit because there's my dead coral. 00:59:52 Speaker 6: You know. 00:59:53 Speaker 7: I think that it would be gread to have experts write in on this because last I heard, there's just still so much mystery to the science of cicatara. And I've definitely heard stuff about dead coral and storms and whatnot, but I don't know if they really nailed it down. I do know it starts from some sort of algae bloom that has a toxin. And there's so many different theories on that. Some people think it's development, some people think it's the chemicals using golf courses, you know, all different things, or storms or whatnot. I think from there's so many different theories that I've heard that scientists are trying to understand. But if it were just development things, you know, would it be found in all these little atolls that are all over French Polynesia where we know it does exist. Probably not. 01:00:44 Speaker 2: That's like saying, I mean, but red Tide's always been around. 01:00:46 Speaker 7: I mean, but I don't cicatara hasn't always been around. 01:00:49 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 01:00:50 Speaker 7: I don't think so because there is no Hawaiian word for cicatara, which does say a lot, being that that was the main source, right and it's fish, and so being that there was no Hawaiian word for cicatara, we do and no talk about it nothing like that. We do think it's something that is relatively new, but trying to figure out exactly how to pinpoint the source of it gets confusing. 01:01:19 Speaker 3: All. 01:01:20 Speaker 7: I mean, I could be wrong, but the last I heard, all we really know is that it comes from algae, and there's some sort of toxin that bioaccumulates as it goes up the food chain. And I even say some sort of toxin because the problem is is that they've even made cigatara test kits where you can catch a fish, test it for the cicatara toxin and then it can tell you whether it's good to eat or not. And those kind of failed because it only tests for that one toxin, where apparently I think there ended up being numerous toxins that weren't exactly cicatara but had all the exact same results in symptoms. 01:02:00 Speaker 8: I feel bad for that company that did that, because I saw that coming too when they came out with a sigatary kit test kit. Inevitably, somebody's gonna get sick and sue them and shut this company down that's actually trying to do something really good and jo people. But it didn't last long. 01:02:15 Speaker 2: You said you got to mess with that kit. Yeah, you said everything you tried had it? 01:02:19 Speaker 3: Everything I tried, seriously, everything I tried hot it, And I mean, yeah, they sent me a kit and I was like, all right, we'll give it a thing a shot. And I think I still have one or two kids left. For me here, I'm not speaking for the rest of the world, but for me here and this part of the world, there's certain areas where I fish and I will harve as fish and I will not eat it. I just know, like like certain areas is more prevalent. And if I go through those areas and I catch a fish that's a bottle feeder, I had to let it go. If it dies, I just give it away to somebody and let them know, Hey, look I caught this fish here. It's all on you. 01:02:57 Speaker 2: But your dad's headed a bunch of times. 01:02:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad's haided. Yeah, every local, all old guys back on the mainland, they eat anything from the ocean. But my feeling is they built up such a tolerance to us, you know, I feel as if they built up such a tolerance to it not you know, they still get sick, they still get really, really sick, but it does not it does not hit them as hard as someone let's say, things from Montano. 01:03:22 Speaker 8: Because you know, because some people that have. 01:03:27 Speaker 7: Because at first I felt the same way, because I mean, it's so interesting because wherever you go, like people will have these things up no, you outside the lagoon, it's fine inside, you know, And there's all these things, and there's always the people who are like, oh, just give it to that guy. He's immune, you know, and. 01:03:46 Speaker 2: By science. 01:03:46 Speaker 7: I always thought that would be that would contradict the science because if it bioaccumulates, I always thought it bioaccumulated in us as well, So then you wouldn't think that you would get immune to it, because you would just think the more fish you eat, the more pro when you were to getting it. But I think what she's saying is that you get it so many times and then it's just you really start to just not even feel it after a while. Maybe that's it, because I definitely I do know that there's so many old timers that eat all the fish that are known to be the hottest in sing and are just absolutely fine. 01:04:20 Speaker 8: How funny is it that all of us, and coming from different places, always call it hot. I've never heard that before, because you're hot and cold, like you wouldn't be able to walk barefoot on this this floor without feeling like you're burning up. It really affects you. 01:04:34 Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, so talk about when you had it? 01:04:37 Speaker 7: Okay, So I think I'm pretty positive I had cigatara or something some strain close to it, but I had shot a sixty pound ullua a diet TRAVALI. I know, it's pretty like amazing experience, but that was the last big ulu I ever shot because I ate it and ate some of it, and then a couple of days later, I just I just felt like all my muscles were just being pulled and stretched, and it was like every part of me was so sore from the inside out, and I felt fatigued, but I just felt in pain. And then the thing that I noticed is whenever I went to wash the dishes at night, the water that was warm just felt so extremely burning hot, and if I touched anything that was just semi cool, it felt so cold that I felt like frostbite or something. And from what I know about sigatara is you get temperature reversal, where hot things feel cold, cold things feel hot. I didn't get that, but I had temperature extremes where warm felt super hot, cool felt way too cold, And so whatever it was, it was close enough to count as sig in my book. It only lasted though, like not even forty eight hours. It lasted like a little over a day. It's fine. 01:06:13 Speaker 2: Do you know that she Kimmy here basically called Seth bald faced liar. I was there, what Kimmy he said he was, He did not. She said he was lying. She thinks he's lying bald facedly about. 01:06:29 Speaker 7: No, he was just confused. 01:06:32 Speaker 2: He's not a liar. 01:06:33 Speaker 7: He just got it wrong. 01:06:34 Speaker 3: But steve to get back to your point. A lot of people, a lot of people say, you put ants, let aunts eat on it, and you put mustard on it, and you put a penny. 01:06:43 Speaker 2: In it on our back of I don't know about these. 01:06:44 Speaker 3: I know none of it. 01:06:46 Speaker 7: The village pig, the village pig, the cat. 01:06:50 Speaker 3: I don't think any of that stuff works. If if if it's got sick, it's got sick. Bro it's you're gonna get hit. 01:06:56 Speaker 2: Well, I know, but there's no idea is that. 01:06:59 Speaker 3: Oh so you give it to your neighbor. 01:07:01 Speaker 2: Fly land on it like you take a barracuda, and if a fly lands on it, it's clean. 01:07:07 Speaker 3: He's gonna line on no matter what, go for it, go for it. 01:07:14 Speaker 4: Oh damn, yours is froze speaking of. 01:07:19 Speaker 2: I know I can picture that this we're gonna have a great series of corrections. Yeah, about the sig conversation, sigtary conversation. This is this is just kicking. This is just the initial round. 01:07:33 Speaker 6: Well, there's people actively like our friends on Awahu just got it from my knife jaw and they had somebody reach out to them and like actually do an interview, like come to their house and do an interview. So there's like people. 01:07:44 Speaker 7: From what I know, scientists are just begging for more information. They're still trying to figure out. 01:07:51 Speaker 8: What someone needs to do is they need to have an interactive world map that people can say definitively this spot, I got it from this fish, it was this size. 01:08:03 Speaker 2: It would help something that would be a great thing to build into navi ONYX. Yeah, so it shows you like the depth. 01:08:11 Speaker 8: Probably the big ones are you can send send if you want me to research it. You can send me exactly where you got the fish, what size it was, if it was close to a world record or not, how big. But talking about you know, the development areas that you know would think you would have it. Some of the most remote places that I've traveled are the absolute worst, where there's there's no way it's development. You know, it's it's where hurricanes have hit multiple times over the years. It's a place where the water doesn't move that much. There's not an estuary to like push water in and out, you know. 01:08:52 Speaker 6: But like Alaska doesn't have it because the colder water temperatures. 01:08:55 Speaker 2: I assume I've never heard any mention of it. I've always heard it associated with coral. Yeah, and that's why it was explained to me. Why that's why like Couda's barracudas in the golf or you know, particularly barracudas shot off the oil rigs, like they're not on the kind of habitat that lends itself to getting siguara, and that it's more of a for fish that are frequenting coral reefs. 01:09:20 Speaker 8: So in the in the Gulf Mexico off Florida, black group are commercially speared and caught there up to one hundred and twenty pounds, and they sell them commercially no problem. But here in certain parts of the Bahamas, you wouldn't touch a black over fifty pounds. It's gonna get you sick, you know. So amberjacks in the Golf Mexico no problem here. Twenty fifty pound amberjack you're gonna get. 01:09:43 Speaker 3: I won't touch it one. 01:09:44 Speaker 8: They will beat you down. 01:09:47 Speaker 4: Totally ignorant, is it. 01:09:48 Speaker 5: It's not a heat thing as far as cooking like you could. 01:09:51 Speaker 2: You can't. 01:09:52 Speaker 4: That's what I was curious about. 01:09:53 Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you, Kim, that it can't be development because you go to it's mean tiny little atolls and they say, don't eat that fish. 01:10:04 Speaker 8: There's in this one part of the Bahamas I'm talking about. It's the backside of Grand Bahama, the furthest I guess, last third of the eastern end of the island there. I've been coming backfishing before and seeing the guys you know, lobstering and said, hey, I'll trade you some fish, you know, for lobsters. And I show them what I have and they're like, no way. 01:10:25 Speaker 2: Oh is that right? 01:10:26 Speaker 8: Yeah, like hogfish, like six eight pound hogfish and they're like, nope, no way. Because of that reason, Yeah, that whole area over there is a total hot spot. But it's weird, like we've eaten plenty of fish over there and tea and ived over there. Much like a lot like the when you get further down towards the tip of Abaco. I've had no problems with it, Like we've eaten some big fish there, but there's other people like Tea's dad and Brandon's dad They're like, Nope, they'll never eat anything from there, even a hog, because they're afraid of it. 01:10:55 Speaker 2: Really yeah, So when when all the corrections come flooding in from uh know, it all is out there and I'm looking forward to it. Matter of fact, your subject line can just be like I'm gonna know it all and I honestly want to hear it all. Has anyone ever? Are there any f d A or who regulates uh who's responsibilities? Not U s d A? Who regulates wild caught fish? 01:11:23 Speaker 4: Like? 01:11:23 Speaker 2: Who has who? What regulatory agency in the US has oversight over wildcought fish? 01:11:29 Speaker 8: It depends what are you talking about? 01:11:31 Speaker 2: Meaning like like to get into the USDA USDA inspection. Oh gosh, so drugs, it has to be certified by the f d A. The fd A like certain dies right, all kinds of food additives f d A agricultural products is usd A, Like I know cultured mushrooms that that thing is like. 01:11:52 Speaker 4: F d A. 01:11:53 Speaker 8: Man, I don't, honestly, I think it skips that whole process. 01:11:57 Speaker 2: It might because I kin does one. Is there ever any has there ever when people are writing in about this, is there any Has there ever been any articulated prohibition anywhere from selling fish over a certain size the way that you frequently because here's the thing, you see it all the time. Oh okay, dirt just pulled up something. The EPA and the FDA collaborate work together and that. But that's recreational commercial contaminate. That's recreational fish. Oh no, riscent commercial fishing. Okay, so it'll be them. So I used to live right near Lake Washington and they had a health advisory. Now this wasn't because of sick They had a health advisory because of heavy metals, okay. And they would say like not to eat like whatever. It was more than one meal, a meal being eight ounces per unit of time of perch over twelve inches And they later drop that one. But they'll get into like a high level of specificity about about size size correlating to age and when when not to eat it. I'm just wonder if it's ever been any case where in the US the US has said we're not going to sell like one hundred pound black grouper are not going to come out of the Bahamas and find themselves for sale in Baltimore, say, because people are gonna get sick from sequtara. 01:13:38 Speaker 8: So this has happened a lot in Florida. But it's not am I Arrow might correct me on this, but guys that are commercial fishing in Florida get greedy. You know, they're getting arracudas or getting groupers or whatever. But they know, hey, we can zip across the Bahamas illegally, die for a day or two, get a ton of fish, groups, snappers, hogfish, barracudas, and bringing back and sell them in Florida. In the time that I've been alive, multiple times I've heard of entire restaurants patrons getting super sick because of that. And it's first off, it's illegal to do because you can't go do that, and then they're really putting people in danger knowing that those fish over there have the chance of doing that. Sure, but it's I've never heard it being a government intervention, yep. And what they did in what they did in Florida was they basically shut down the barracuda industry. They said no more barracudas. Oh really, because these guys were going and they basically wiped the barracudas pretty clean off all the recks on the east coast of Florida. This is like four or five years ago. And for the restaurant trade, yeah, because it tastes like grouper, like side by side with grouper like I think you know, you see those write ups on what percentage of restaurants serve fish or actually what they're saying it is, it's pretty low. But they were getting tons and tons of barracudas because they're easy to get, you don't have to dive deep whatever. Those numbers started running low in Florida, so they started going to the Bahamas and getting them in the Bahamas, and I mean, they're thick over here and they have a high chance of segretara. And they started getting a lot of people sick, and they traced it back to exactly that people doing it illegally bringing ones from over here back over there. 01:15:24 Speaker 2: You mentioned the the We've covered this a few times. When they go and check what fish actually is, I can't remember what it was. Man overwhelmingly red snappers, not red snapper there's no way. And it makes sense because you got all this like like what we've been getting mutton snappers, mangrove snappers. It's just I mean, at some point it's just the restaurant or whoever. It's just like it's people have a good feeling about red snapper. They equate it with quality, and it's just whatever, it's a red snapper. Just because I don't want to put mutton snapper, I don't want to write dog snappers. I'll write red snapper. 01:16:06 Speaker 8: And they further reduced the quota this year for red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico, which they have an IFQ, which is an individual fishery quota. So say there's a million pounds that are available, there's I believe it's like three companies that own like two thirds of that quota. So if you and I, hey, do we decide we want to go out and be commercial fishermen, it's almost impossible to do now because it's so expensive and so difficult to get quota. Even if we had ten thousand pounds, we might get seven eight ten bucks or whatever it is a pound for that snapper, but we're only allowed that much, and it costs that much for fuel and all that kind of stuff. So the amount of red snapper that's available, there's no way it could keep up with demand right now. Yeah, you know, and those big companies control it. Meanwhile, it's like you got all these ten pound mangroves, yeah, which are being sold as red snap were probably. 01:17:03 Speaker 2: Another one that someone mentioned before was how much steel head turns up and canned salmon. 01:17:11 Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, because they're so close just catching. 01:17:14 Speaker 2: Them on the high seas, you know, you know, and just whatever you can't since you can't, they just it's just something different. Uh, talk me about turtles around here. That's that's interesting because they were very drawn. Uh A handful of occasions were like attracted to us, and they're big, bigger than Yeah, we got big turtles. 01:17:36 Speaker 3: So we got a lot of turtles. 01:17:38 Speaker 2: Like what's a big loggerheadway three four? 01:17:41 Speaker 8: Easily they're huge, those giant heads. Their heads were like a yetti bucket. 01:17:45 Speaker 4: Yeah they were. 01:17:47 Speaker 2: They were like that turtle was not quite as long as me, but like almost like almost as long. 01:17:52 Speaker 8: And like thick, like two and a half two feet thick. 01:17:55 Speaker 4: They're big. 01:17:56 Speaker 6: I got a shot of it right next to you Steve and you'll be able to see that parison. It was like making dwarf in you. 01:18:03 Speaker 2: And they're they're coming up to check and see if you're not a breeding group. 01:18:07 Speaker 8: Yeah, they want to be involved in whatever's going on. 01:18:12 Speaker 2: There's not too many. 01:18:13 Speaker 3: We've been on numerous occasions being cam diving for lobsters and how I'm coming up to us. I have a video of cam just han feeding one, like a big one. It hands the size of basketball and canter you're just eating it and it's like, great. 01:18:25 Speaker 8: You occupy, you keep kill a lobster here, you can twist the tails, you know, if the lobsters so you'll look back and there'll be a turtle right there eating every head and they hear it out. They hear it, they hear it, they hear it, they start coming over and they'll come eat. I mean that one day, I think we had that one turtle eat maybe thirty heads, just just yeah, yeah, they love them. 01:18:47 Speaker 2: Loggerhead eating them. 01:18:48 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. 01:18:49 Speaker 7: That one that came up from the bottom of my first house like oh beautiful, welcoming the interaction and then it got closer and say big look at that like mouth on it and then its eyes look kind of like a monster ghost. And then I wasn't into it anymore. 01:19:10 Speaker 8: He looked like it was like one o'clock in the club. The lights were about to come along, and he's like, there's four four girls and one dude left, were going. 01:19:22 Speaker 2: Why was he gunning towards me? 01:19:23 Speaker 8: Then she looked the most helpless. 01:19:27 Speaker 2: That's true, guys, got a lot of I ain't paying attention. So tea has been, it's been, you were saying fifteen twenty. No, no, that was when the shark prohibition in the Bahamas. 01:19:38 Speaker 3: But turtles spent just as long. Turtle's probably been even longer than that. Turtle's probably at least been twenty years. 01:19:42 Speaker 2: Do you remember when you could eat turtles? 01:19:44 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, one hundred percent. We loved it. It was really good. Easter is a really really big holiday into Bahamas. Easter is owl version of Thanksgiving for y'all. And I can remember folly as a kid, eating lots of turtle and lots of shark. 01:20:00 Speaker 2: Would you guys target the turtles back in those days. 01:20:04 Speaker 3: Most of the time you find whichever one you want, you're already getting your mind made up. How you which one you want because the grand turtle and loghead tastes completely different. And most of the time we would get a grand turtle, you chase it down and jump on it and put a knife to it. 01:20:18 Speaker 2: And then how would you guys prepare them? 01:20:22 Speaker 3: I like my turtle like my mom as a kid. I like having it as a pepper steak. I like how you do, like how you a cook pepper steak. I loved it having that way. Another way you could do it is like a countryfied steak, but pasta shell. There is really a lot of meating though in a turtle. But I hear just rumors of them starting to open up a turtle season here to get into Palmas. No, I don't know what true, what that is or what I have no interest in killing them or whatever. 01:20:50 Speaker 2: But did you feel it was unsustainable When you were a kid. 01:20:53 Speaker 3: It was one hundred percent sustainable, and today it still is for those that want to get them. Is still sustainable turtles everywhere all through to Bahamas. 01:21:02 Speaker 2: So it wasn't like they were. You didn't feel that you guys are running out of turtles back there? 01:21:05 Speaker 3: No, no, not at all. Every little creek a canal, you going right now? It's hundreds of turtles areas. You go dive in kalank, could dive in lobster anywhere. This turtles everywhere. Turtles, they I'll think they get so big they really have no natural predators once they get so big, because you get a big turtle come up on a shark. He could really bully that shark if he wants to. The shark doesn't want to get hurt. The shark just wants the easy meal. I mean, I've seen turtle crush conk shells, like really thick conk shell, Grab it, crush it, eat the conk on inside, keep moving. You know what. Shark they want to get on the other side of the beak. They really don't. 01:21:43 Speaker 4: You know. 01:21:43 Speaker 2: We had a guy, uh he's been on the podcast a couple of times. I think it was Danny Bolton that was observing this. Maybe you remember this. He's talking about the idea of like the sharks are reckless and he's like, man, they can't afford to get hurt. No, it's like if he gets hurt, he's dead. Yeah, his parties are you know, like any little thing happens to him, right, they can't just run around being stupid. 01:22:10 Speaker 8: No, you think about how many we saw this week. They were perfectly clean. You think about how hard their lives are and the crap that they go through when they're Most of them are so beautiful. They don't have a mark on them. Yeah, it's the ones that I see with big bite mark on him, or like that guy must be a dick. We need to stay away from him. Yeah, you know, like those are the ones that are like or a real skinny one. If you see a skinny one. 01:22:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, trouble, Yeah, yeah, I guess the Yeah. The point on that being that you think, well, how a turtle run him off? It is like, why does he want? Why would he risk it? 01:22:43 Speaker 3: Yeah? A turtle getting a chunk taken out him by If you see a big turtle and you got a shark hard on him, he'll never turn away from him. He always faces him, you know. So he's ready to bite, he's ready to snap back. 01:22:55 Speaker 4: You know. 01:22:55 Speaker 3: I mean a turtle. I think they got a well of one thousand pounds of pressure and a beak, you know what I mean. You see them crush a kun show. I wouldn't take a chance at all. 01:23:06 Speaker 2: They can crush a coun show. 01:23:07 Speaker 7: They sure look like I got a really close look at that turtle's face and I'm just saying, like it's it's beak looked intense. 01:23:13 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, you're thinking of the kunks that were like keeping to eat. We're talking more of the undeveloped ones. 01:23:18 Speaker 3: That are still like junior consol juvenile ones last of three years. 01:23:22 Speaker 8: When I was a kid. This is back in the Camon Islands when you were still able to catch turtles. They'd set nets. So, say there's ten people on the island would set nets for turtles, and basically is a net that looks like a flag on the surface. So you'd have a buoy a weight on the bottomlying going up and there'd be a flag kind of a net on the surface, and they'd have a fake turtle on the surface, like a piece of wood, round piece of wood with two flippers, so it looked like a turtle. And just like that turtle did to us today, turtles come up there and look at it and get tangled up in it. And because of the way the net was near the surface, they could stay there for a day or two would still be able to go up and get get air. So the running deal was if you found a turtle in somebody else's net. 01:24:06 Speaker 3: You took it. 01:24:07 Speaker 8: And I can't remember if we talked about this, definitely not so I might have been seven or eight or at the time. So there was a big turtle in that We got it out and we were running back to our island, and on the way back we had an open boat. That turtle was was in the uh on the deck of the boat and my uncle was running the boat and that turtle just inched his way up and bit him like this on the back of the ankle. And you have never heard a louder noise, of course, the whole way down. Yeah, I had chomped him. And I've never heard anyone yell like that in my life because totally unexpected. It probably probably yelled like me when you spooked me today and I thought you were short. 01:24:53 Speaker 2: Yeah you did. 01:24:54 Speaker 8: Yeah you did, scared of it, but yeah, there the bite you. Oh yeah, especially when he knows he's screwed, he'll bite you. 01:25:05 Speaker 7: Oh. 01:25:05 Speaker 8: I would hate to get bit by that. 01:25:06 Speaker 2: And in Behaman culture, why where did the whole like I get the Eastern meal right, and then you know where I grew up like a common Eastern meal would be that you'd have a honey baked ham, right, Why sharks of turtles? Do you have any idea? 01:25:23 Speaker 3: I think it was just easier to come by. That's that's that's just what I think. And I mean we never we eat turtle probably once a year, twice a year. But shark, I mean, shark was a common occurrence. We ate shark a lot, a lot of shark, black tail, reef, almost any shark. We got makos every once in a while. The old guys are go deepdropping, they'll come across the thresher. You know, shark was sharks delicious if you treat it right, just like any of the wild game, as you know, I mean, you treat it right, you bleed it immediately, clean it immediately, and it's really good. 01:25:54 Speaker 4: It is really good. 01:25:56 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest things here in the Bahamas that we do it at is not sustainable. It's conk. I think ten years ago, maybe fifteen years ago, we should have shut down or at least put a season on conk in the Bahamas because we explore quite a bit of gonk, quite a bit, and I just don't think it's sustainable. 01:26:14 Speaker 2: In your lifetime You've seen a degradation of the resource. 01:26:17 Speaker 3: Big time, big time, and it is not it is not due to nature. It's not due to any other thing but oval fishing. You know, I conk is such a smart social creature. If you were to take an area to the size of like a let's say an acre, and you dive, it's got a thousand colnar there. You dive ten, you break up the shelves, you drop it a right back in the middle of the conk. Within two or three days, every conquinarya is gone, every conkentary is gone because of that hazard. Yeah, nobody wants to live in a graveyard. You know, that's a fock. 01:26:52 Speaker 2: But we didn't cover it. But a guy rode in about the giant bucks that live in his graveyard by his house. But that's different, that's different species. Dear people. Uh with the with with the kankfrishera. The reason I could just I've thought about that often when I'm in areas that have con is, it's just they're they're highly visible and you just pick them up. And I was like, unless they're unless they're also out there in three hundred feet of water, like and they're not. No I just started saying, like, how it couldn't be that you just picked them all up. 01:27:26 Speaker 3: Then that's what they're doing. It's it's hard to really think about. All right, So if you got a lot of it being exported, and conk is a real big delicacy in Obahama, so you have a lot of locals and all eating it. So the amoud of conk that we export and we provide to restaurants and just local street vendors and stuff, it's just not sustainable. It is not at all. I've seen conk populations go way down really quick, really really quick. But hopefully we'll get it together, you know, and figure out, you know, we need to do something about it for our future. But it's odd, it really is. NASA A Group was the same way, I want to say, probably ten fifteen years ago. It's the exact same way, and then all of a sudden the government said, you know what, we gotta do something about it. They made a season on it, and now NASA Group are everywhere. Well, in three years four years, we saw a huge difference in it. It made a huge difference, which was great. 01:28:29 Speaker 7: There's no season on conk and. 01:28:32 Speaker 3: Now they're talking about it, and I saw Department of Natural Resources, which is our game warden system here. They said they're going to start June first of twenty twenty three to put like a six month season on it or nine months season on it, which I think is great. It'll help a lot conk mostly spawning cooler temperatures. I think they should do it mostly in the winter months. But doing it and joining is fine too, because youe how so many people and jew and that'll that'll give him a reason not to go and get them and not to mess with them, you know, which is great. I think. I think it's long overdue. 01:29:08 Speaker 2: So that's you were saying, that's one commercial activity you don't you don't participate in. 01:29:12 Speaker 3: I do not participate in conk Rocfuston. I don't, Jess. Jess like to me, I mean ethically to me, it is not right, you know. So I'll see Concodell, I'll take my boy, will go and get two or three for dinner. We never take enough to freeze and carry back a woman at all. We just get what we can right there, and then we grab a couple for dinner and that's it. We leave the rest. 01:29:34 Speaker 7: You know. 01:29:34 Speaker 8: I think that the kunk. The kunk export or lack thereof, is a good show of national pride too, that if you want kunk, you should come to the Bahamas, anticipate in the tourism and yes, the local economy rather than I mean, god knows what it goes for a pound and gets exported. It's nothing. 01:29:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, so and it does. 01:29:56 Speaker 8: It doesn't do much for here, but the attraction of people being will come here of like this is the place you get it. I think that's way more valuable. 01:30:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with you. 01:30:04 Speaker 3: I was talking to another friend of mine from the U of M, and he was like, hey, how about kung farming? Now, Now it can be done, but kung doesn't grow really fast, you know. And I feel as if if someone was to come in and do kung farming every year when they do their harvest, they should release a certain percentage back into the wild. Sure, you know, just try to help it from me and sustainable. But the way we're the way i'll the way we're doing it, I was not right. 01:30:35 Speaker 2: I want to move to another fish species. And I'm going to start up by asking Kimmy this question, uh, and then we'll get to something you were telling me t is uh. But in Florida, bonefisher can't can't touch them, right. It's like like the trifecta of flats fish, bonefish, permit, tarp and you can't harvest those fish. Isn't it no kill in Florida? 01:31:03 Speaker 8: Or just frowned upon you said, you said bonefish permit tarpe, Yeah, permit, you can. 01:31:08 Speaker 2: You can fish for you can fish for permit. 01:31:10 Speaker 8: It pisses people off like nothing else. 01:31:12 Speaker 2: Like the reason I bring it up, we saw a permit and I had no idea that the permit went. 01:31:18 Speaker 3: Into a hole. 01:31:20 Speaker 8: This is a this is a big argument. I would love I would love to come back on the podcast with one of these diehard permit fishermen. I have the flats, fantastic friends that are you know, permit guys, and I love them to death. Permit do not belong the flats. They occasion the flats, they go there. They're reef fish. I see thousands and thousands and thousands of them on the reef in holes. I'll send you a video to add to this, like of three permit in a hole. 01:31:50 Speaker 2: I get what you're saying. It'd be like if you were looking for people you could find them in movie theaters, right, a lot of people never ever going to a movie theater. 01:31:59 Speaker 8: And you've seen the the videos of like swordfish on the flats or the reason for a tuna tower. Everybody's heard the term tuna tower talking about sport fish. 01:32:09 Speaker 3: On a boat. 01:32:09 Speaker 2: You look out tower and a boat. 01:32:10 Speaker 8: Those were developed for cat k and beeminy, so the guys could be up super high to see bluef and tunas that are done spawning in the golf or breeding whatever the hell they're doing the golf Mexico coming across a gulf stream and occasionally coming over the bank in twenty thirty feet of water, Yeah, in shallow water, and they would see them. Back in the Hemingway days. They developed these big towers so they could present baits them and ten to thirty foot of water. But is that where blue fen live? 01:32:39 Speaker 7: No? 01:32:40 Speaker 8: Not upon the flats. A Bahamian got killed one the other day, chased it down and shot it with the wine sling. 01:32:46 Speaker 7: Wow. 01:32:47 Speaker 8: Serious, yep from the boat. It was like eight hundred or something. 01:32:51 Speaker 4: Crazy. 01:32:51 Speaker 3: Who it was. 01:32:52 Speaker 4: Huge, Yeah, as it was moving like you're saying. 01:32:55 Speaker 8: But bluefin tunes aren't flats fish permit, look all up on the flats. 01:33:01 Speaker 2: I love it, but they're not always there. 01:33:04 Speaker 8: I don't think they're always there. I mean it might be two subspecies, but I don't know. I didn't see this fish, but there, Kimmy saw it. You saw it, and you guys know, like one thing I'll hand you guys, like your ability to know what the hell fish you're looking at and sixty feet of water. 01:33:20 Speaker 4: I was thinking that too. 01:33:22 Speaker 2: Ste half the time I put my head up justin knows I'm gonna go like, what was that? A lot of times Justice is like, don't recognize that one. He's far from home, but yeah, that's like a roughly group or esque that looks like. 01:33:45 Speaker 6: I don't know where it's camp. 01:33:46 Speaker 2: I don't know, but uh, but the the fact that the permit went into a hole. Yeah, So anyways, that guy we were talking about, you know, fella could go down there and get him, and we opted out to get him. And I pointed out and it wasn't it was It was a large A big part. A big factor me now I wanted to go down and get them. Is how riled up people get. And sometimes I like to like poke the hornet's nest. I'm like you know, like a large mouth bass, right, I'd be almost like more inclined to eat it just because of how how large mouth bass guys get some bent out of shape. So I was like, it just gets people so riled up the way I expressed this, what what I just. 01:34:28 Speaker 7: I would have eaten it, And like, I'm just in I caught a large mouth bass in Minnesota. My parents and I love it, and what we eat bonefish trying to slow and I just you know, I don't see the issue. 01:34:46 Speaker 2: Yeah I don't either, but but you have to trust you, and I tell you it's an issue. People, people, it's an issue. 01:34:56 Speaker 6: And you ask why, I'm like behind the scenes because I'm like the guy I shoot that permit because I don't want to deal with that. 01:35:04 Speaker 2: So the permit thing, it's an issue. And we passed on a permit, and I was going to bring up what you just brought up is that as much so. I remember when the first time I went fishing bonefish. After a while of fishing bonefish, we ate a bonefish, and it felt like you're being like naughty to eat a bonefish. But then you learn that in Hawaii, it's if Hawaiians are going to name stuff to eat, like like bonefish is way high on the list, and that unaware that it's that it's that it's naughty to eat them. 01:35:34 Speaker 7: No, no, nobody will judge you in Hawaii for eating oh eo, Like nobody thinks of it really. I mean, we know that people love to go fly fishing for them elsewhere and that they put up a good fight, but it's not like it's not the most popular thing to do in Hawaii. But as far as eating them, like, that's definitely something celebrated. It's a very special dish called lo me oyo where you basically roll out all the meat so that you don't get any bones, and it's like this soft mushy meat, which I know too most people doesn't sound appetizing. 01:36:13 Speaker 2: But if you think of like, you know, if you said to someone you want some mushy fish, most people are gonna be like, no, I'll pass. 01:36:19 Speaker 7: But if you think about, like, think about like spicy tuna when it's not like in chunks, but when it's like really kind of minced and made into spicy tuna and then put over rice and sushi and rolla, wouldn't you call that a mushi meat? Wouldn't you call that delicious? Okay, So loami oyo is a moshi meat that is very delicious. It's not spicy tuna it is. We just use Hawaiian salt, some limu which is seaweed, and it's just something where you take two fingers and you just you have your own serving bowl of your lomo eo and you scoop it up with those two fingers. Stop it in your mouth. 01:36:58 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm craving it. 01:37:01 Speaker 7: It was somebody justin has eaten it. 01:37:03 Speaker 2: Do you love it? 01:37:05 Speaker 7: Or do you love it? There's like no other option. It's delicious. 01:37:11 Speaker 2: I've shot. 01:37:12 Speaker 7: They're not the easiest t shoe, Like, they're not something you have to work. I mean, I think the only thing you have to worry about is like if you were to like surround at a school, that wouldn't be you know, if everyone did that, that wouldn't be sustainable. But as far as like fishing for them or shooting them, it's kind of rare to get one. Yeah I have. 01:37:32 Speaker 8: I would love to add that to my list of stuff I have And I was so happy. 01:37:37 Speaker 6: Oh they're really soft, so it's hard to like really get them right. 01:37:41 Speaker 3: No, I mean they're a great fight but no, really firm. 01:37:45 Speaker 7: Yeah, if you if you shoot them, you're gonna get them. 01:37:48 Speaker 8: Do you clean them the same way you clean like an ava, Like you pound them out and then you cut up a slit at the back and like roll it out. 01:37:55 Speaker 7: That's definitely a popular way to do it. And everyone has their. 01:37:58 Speaker 2: Own nique on that phone. 01:38:01 Speaker 7: I mean people have their always, but some people will like throw it in a freezer overnight just so that all the you know, briga mortars and coagulated proteins will relax. And then the next day you'll take it out and you'll cut a slit in the tail and then you get a rolling pin and then right behind the head is where you start, and you put this pressure on it and you just roll it out and all the meat just comes on out. 01:38:28 Speaker 2: What Yeah, come on, we. 01:38:30 Speaker 6: Made a meat YouTube video similar to that. 01:38:33 Speaker 2: Right on you're taking a fish, you freeze it and then thaw it so it's kind of soft, yeah, and you squeeze it out the table to make. 01:38:41 Speaker 7: A slit, and then you're like roll You put all this pressure and you roll it out and the. 01:38:47 Speaker 8: Tail where we'd usually be the back of this floor and you. 01:38:51 Speaker 7: Just get all this this basically like ground meat out, you know, and it is and everyone has your own way, like not everyone likes that style, and some people prefer to do it other ways. And again it's not like I'm an expert on it because I've only shot one, you know, but I've eaten it. I've eaten it a lot, and it's something that's like serve as a really special dish at Luau's and whatnot. And I mean these days I hear that, Like I went to I went to Foodland, I went to a grocery store and they actually were serving it at the poke counter because I guess now they're even importing them from the Philippine or something because it's such a desired dish in Hawaii. 01:39:36 Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, to you talk about how your dad and his body's fishing, this is this cracks me up. 01:39:41 Speaker 3: Many they hand line them. They do it at night. They hand line them, use little hermit crabs, and they do really well. This is a small one. 01:39:49 Speaker 2: They let it go. It's really big. 01:39:50 Speaker 3: They'll let that one go too. But the size they want is basically like fourteen inches sixteen inches somewhere. It's a perfect size for them. 01:40:01 Speaker 2: And what they do is they they'll scale it. G got it well first time about how they catch it. 01:40:07 Speaker 3: So you just use a hand line, high line with a hook and a hermit crab, crush the hermit crop out of the shell, stick it on and they mostly do it at night, bonefish day, and they're on the flats. They're on the flats. They're on the flats. They go to the fly and they in the night. 01:40:23 Speaker 8: But aren't you fishing in a little bit deeper water at night? 01:40:26 Speaker 3: They come they come right along the showline. They come right along the showline, feeding on crabs or whatever else on night and at night. They're not picky in the daytime after use like really light floor or carbon and stuff. Nighttime, they don't care. 01:40:39 Speaker 2: They just feed. 01:40:41 Speaker 3: That's it, you know. A couple of hermit crobs. You do pretty well, you know, and they go then the way they do it, they don't gnad them at all, so it's really sustainable as well. They use a little little pin hook and a little hand line, take a couple of flashlights and some off for the bugs and. 01:40:59 Speaker 4: Some of that. 01:40:59 Speaker 2: Natives. 01:41:00 Speaker 8: Yeah there's a plug for native soap and yeah, there you go. 01:41:03 Speaker 3: They go and they get them. But the way how they do it here is they they they gill and gut it and then they butterfly it all the way on down in the skin, and they lay it wide open as a butterfly, and they put it in the oven and they'll suck a onions, peppers, tomatoes, but that was salt and pepper they want and to put it on it. Put it in the oven. When it's already fully cooked. They pull it out, and then they take the bog boe from the tail end and they pull straight up and all the. 01:41:31 Speaker 2: Bog bone comes out, but there takes the ribs with it. 01:41:33 Speaker 3: No, a lot of ribs stay behind. But I don't like bone fish because it is too much work a guy of my physique. I gotta eat bro I don't want to. 01:41:43 Speaker 8: You can't be picking. 01:41:44 Speaker 3: I can't be picking. 01:41:45 Speaker 7: But they love it. 01:41:46 Speaker 2: But you need to groover, you know what's up? 01:41:50 Speaker 3: What's up? It's too much rock to eat. But it takes you like an hour to eat a meal. 01:41:58 Speaker 2: You're making me think of how many fish? We got a pile of fish. We got a clean man. I love it. 01:42:02 Speaker 3: It's getting nice and stuff. 01:42:13 Speaker 2: I want to talk about the fish we got. Have you guys run through the fish we got? I got one more question. We saw sharks but had no you'd say that, like, no, we didn't see anything anything that you never said, get back in the boat, nothing like that. 01:42:28 Speaker 8: Just there kind of their behavior. And we were really efficient with not leaving stuff on the bottom, like we got stuff out. Honestly, the worst setup we had was a fish that we had never shot, which was a big black that went in a hole, big black grouper. And while we were looking for that thing, that big mutton came in and you shot that mutton, and as you shot it, everybody was kind of looking at you. And I spun Kimmy around because there was two big reef sharks there and they were a little bit inch did but they're afraid of the bigger groups. Like there's like six of us in the water. If it had been just one of us, they would have been all over you. Yeah, so knock on wood. 01:43:10 Speaker 2: That's like, that's like bears in a way, there's a point at which enough people is just never a bear issue. 01:43:15 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's how that's how it. 01:43:18 Speaker 2: Most normally. 01:43:20 Speaker 4: But I don't think he knew. 01:43:20 Speaker 2: I don't think he knew we were all there. True, I don't think he knew we were there. I think he thought it was just one or two. Yeah, yeah, I think he was more surprised than we were. 01:43:29 Speaker 8: Yeah, but it was pretty chill this week with with sharks, and I attribute it to how many people we had in the water got it because we chummed a lot. Like you said, like the chuming is so much fun. Let's do it man. I made it rain today and the sharks never showed that. 01:43:44 Speaker 7: Well. 01:43:44 Speaker 2: That nurse shark that came kind of came and then it really came up. Do they have those ever trouble in a weird way? 01:43:55 Speaker 8: It's like, I don't know, how would you describe them, Like the nurse sharks. It's like it's like a goofy dude that just kind of ambles into the bar. It's not really dangerous, but he will bite you, you know, like if if you if you're if you ignore him enough to be like, hey, this guy's not going to hurt you. They'll bite you. Yeah, you will like you and they don't let go. If they bite you, they they like suck in and they've got you basically an a vice and they won't let go. And that was a big one like that one was a I mean that was one hundred and fifty pounds animals. Oh yeah, that would have not been fun. 01:44:32 Speaker 2: Now, Paren, another guy we're with you just described nurse sharks as like big goofy How are they? 01:44:40 Speaker 8: Are you gonna say that parents goofy guys? 01:44:42 Speaker 4: No? 01:44:42 Speaker 2: No, Paren told me tiger sharks are like stoners until they're not. 01:44:51 Speaker 8: So today we all saw that same video today with the shark, the tiger shark attacking the kayak. 01:44:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, crazy, Now what he thought he thought that was a basking turtle? Oh he thought that kaig was a turtle. 01:45:06 Speaker 8: Yep, Because most of the time like that I've seen in the world. 01:45:09 Speaker 2: But yeah, that makes sense. It's just like, oh, a big ass turtle on the surface, let's. 01:45:12 Speaker 8: Hit it before he gets a chance to turn. 01:45:14 Speaker 4: Yes. 01:45:15 Speaker 8: And the majority of really big tigers that I've seen have been right here beside me already, like I hadn't seen him coming, because they've come from behind you and they've determined that's not a turtle, it's not something on a bite, and he's like arms reach away and it's terrifying. 01:45:30 Speaker 2: And they're just like this. He went to make his arms go around in a circle, but they didn't reach. 01:45:38 Speaker 8: Yeah, but yeah, I we I think we talked about it yesterday or whatever. Like tiger sharks in the Bahamas, I'm honestly not overly afraid of because they are so cautious. It's not like Hawaii tiger sharks. Hawaii tiger sharks they bite people, you know, they're like they mean business here. Not as many spear fishermen get bit by ti as reef sharks. Reef sharks are the big problem here. Bulls, lemons, the ones that are in that kind of you know, thirty to ten foot of water is the most dangerous area. And it's mostly those reef sharks. And they hear someone shoot a fish, they just come rushing in and smash. 01:46:17 Speaker 3: That shallow water. Like Cam just said, the shallow water is the worst. If you see roof sharks out in the deep me you know you could, you could can creat distance in deeper water, but that shallow water stuff mine. When they fired up, they all fired up like they come on hot. And it's a good chance. I mean, if you if you don't keep your head on the swibble or you don't have a good buddy tohies his head on the swibble. Someone's gonna get bit, you know. And see what I mean. I totally agree with the nurse sharks. They are big goofy animals. The only time I had one close and common with one, I had just shot a triggerfish and before I put in the boat, I wanted to like bleed it. And then you know, gut and gill it and my buddy, my he shells on me. Hey shock. They turned around, look and he was put under my arm coming in to Gribby like big dumb it has elbowed it like yeah, he's like a drunk kid at the bar, just stigri in, Like dude, what are you thinking? Yeah, you know, I mean, I didn't want to kill it, didn't want to heard it, but I see him time I wanted my trigo fish. 01:47:14 Speaker 2: You guys mentioned something to me. I'm curious if you could speak to it for a moment that the popularity of shark viewing has led to like conflict between spearfishers because of the practice of chumming up sharks for shark viewing and educating sharks about like what humans mean? You know, this is this the thing? 01:47:44 Speaker 8: Yeah? And I love that you know exactly how to push my buttons. Yeah, such a This is such a challenging discussion, and by openly discussing this in years past, I've had death threats by by shark huggers to the point where I had to get lawyers involved, oh to like help track down these people to make sure they left us alone. Oh really, And it ends up being some twenty two year old girls that you know, are out of college looking for something to do, and they start some random bullshit lie about us doing stuff, and it's it's crazy, the power of the internet and the I don't even want to call those animal rights activists. It's it's so contradictory to what I feel they think their purposes, which is research. Everybody claims, hey, we're researching these sharks, but it's shark feeding operations for tourists. And I agree with getting everybody in the water and allowing them interactions with animals, but this shark industry has totally upended, you know, the whole ecosystem, and that they've trained these sharks to where when a boat pulls up and you take the boat out of gear and a lot of these places sharks are at the boat, which is very, very rare. They should not be doing that because they're feed them. They're going out there and feed them every day, and they might not be feed them when the tourists are there, but you're damn right, they're feeding them in the morning so that they know when that boat comes back, they need to be there. And it gives people a chance to be in the water with these sharks or whatever. But they've totally shut the fishing industry down for sharks, which sharks are beautiful animals. We all love them like they're such cool animals. 01:49:34 Speaker 2: So I don't think that groupers are unbeautiful and uncool exactly. People fish for groupers. It's just I think the deer really beautiful and really cool, and people hunt deer. 01:49:44 Speaker 8: And social media has totally changed the lives of sharks in the last ten years, you know, just because they're. 01:49:53 Speaker 2: One of the big winners. 01:49:55 Speaker 8: Yeah, they really are. 01:49:56 Speaker 2: Because poppy teen age girls took a hit, but sharks it had great and people like. 01:50:02 Speaker 8: In personally I'll say this as well, like I've I've had to kind of keep my mouth shut about it because it is such a strong majority of people that don't have any experience with sharks that are making up all this bullshit about you know, I don't even know how to say it to you, Like it's so this is. 01:50:24 Speaker 3: How I feel. I feel if you are, if you are a shark diving operation, putting people in cages and this and that and everything, I feel like all you're doing is starting that animal for money, not just my personal opinion. And a lot of them get pissed off when they say it, but it is what it is what me and Kim do. We are hunters and the way how we hunt in the water is so sustainable. We don't train sharks. Even if a shark, even if Cam was to shoot a fish, he's coming with a shark comes I Kim, I want his back. I'm watching his six and Cam will never take that fish off and just drop it, you know, because that's another way that you could train a shower. Cad. Look, I'm scared of you someone just dropping this fish. We don't do that, we don't, we don't. But anytime you go down and we had a we had a running with a girl, right, she was already pissed off out of us because we were there fish fair fishing, right, not even in the area. But then, yeah, she still had the guts to come to us and ox of for our carcasses. 01:51:27 Speaker 8: That's true, and that's true every every time. 01:51:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, the photos and yeah after she already even she even went as far to call the police fus over a fish that we had and it was legal, it was a legal harvest. The cop came on Oval. We gave him a bunch of fish. She hung over with us swamp On. We swapped numbers. When he's like, hey, when you come back tomorrow, you get more fish, let me know, you know. And this girl she had the heart to come to us in Oxes for carcasses so she could go feed sharks tomorrow. 01:51:58 Speaker 8: It's crazy. 01:51:58 Speaker 3: All you're doing is extorting these almost some money. 01:52:01 Speaker 4: You know. 01:52:01 Speaker 2: The thing that I brought a horrible I brought the point where you have it would be such bad form to uh bait grizzlies in order to have grizzly viewing. 01:52:16 Speaker 8: That's our exactly, And so we keep saying everyone to be pistols lions. There's a reason you can't do it. 01:52:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone the expert like grizzly protectionists, hunters, homeowners, the fishing game. No one would support you pulling up to grizzlies and throwing them stuff to eat, so that terrorists could take pictures of them. 01:52:36 Speaker 8: And I guarantee and I hope to God this happens sooner than later. In ten years, worldwide, it's going to be illegal to feed sharks for tourism and people are going to be that look back at chunk worldwide? 01:52:47 Speaker 2: Is a big chunk? 01:52:48 Speaker 4: True? 01:52:50 Speaker 8: What were we thinking? Yeah, you know, because it is. It's grizzlies and tigers, lions like people are gonna get bet and it's changing the attitude these animal and hey, like, all right, we're where we are right now. Two miles down south of US, a girl at a sandbar with fifty other people around got bit by a shark and took like a fifteen pound chunk out of her leg. 01:53:12 Speaker 2: I heard fourteen Sorry close. 01:53:15 Speaker 8: I tend to exaggerate. 01:53:16 Speaker 2: To drink golding, to drink and waste deep water. 01:53:18 Speaker 8: Never dropped your drink, rumor has it she never dropped her drink. 01:53:21 Speaker 3: The proximity of all the local communities, like way these people feed sharks, it's mind blowing. Some of these people feed these sharks so close to the local communities. It's crazy. We have one place named Tiger Beach, and Tiger Beach is a good stretch away from you know, some of the local communities, but every way else people don't care. They don't care. And you have tour groups doing it. You have local charter companies. 01:53:46 Speaker 4: That do it. 01:53:47 Speaker 3: Hey, you want to go see a shark, Let's go see a shark and they feed them, which is crazy, even the Marinas. 01:53:52 Speaker 8: And another like another argument from sustainable fishery side is when people think of people killing sharks, they think of finning. Finning is not the only thing that happens with the shark. You think about how big that animal is and how many different uses there are for that animal. Like, there's so much meat in a shark. The return on it is huge. Like what you actually yield teeth, fins, meat, so much more of that gets used than almost any other fish liver. Yeah, like people associate it with you know, these Malaysian fishing boats are you know, only thirty feet long and they only have so much space. When they're gone for two months, the only thing they're going to keep is going to be fins. 01:54:38 Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember years ago, I remember when they did what was called the finning ban in US waters. And it wasn't that they banned finning, they banned the percentage of your hold. What percentage of the shark parts in your hold could be fins meaning I don't know what it was, thirteen percent or something like that, meaning you couldn't go out and just fill your hold full of fins. 01:55:05 Speaker 8: If you were going to harvest sharks, you had to harvest. And I one hundred and ten percent agree with that sharks in their entirety. But what if you know, we said, well you can't serve beef tongue anymore. They're not just going to get in the tongues, you know, out of the beef. It's the same like, okay, let's use the fins instead of wasting. Now, Like, wouldn't it be better to utilize the entire animal? Yeah, So, you know, one hundred pounds shark you're probably gonna get. Somebody can tell me better than this, but sixty percent of that is going to be meat. That's a lot of meat. 01:55:38 Speaker 2: I feel that people are, in our well intentioned way, we sometimes overdo it on making big moves and management. Like if you go into the nineteen seventies with the Wild Horse and Burrow Protection Act. No one could picture in the nineteen seventies the situation we'd be in now, where there are literally millions of wild mustangs. There are millions of wild horses kept on that have been shipped to farms in Kansas because there's a prohibition on killing them or selling them for slaughter. There's too many for their habitat, and so they have to take them and truck them, hire ranchers to stop running cattle and take care of wild horses and burrows at I don't know what the hell it is, few thousand bucks apiece per year because there's no outlet for them. And at the time they were like, okay, no, for the rest of eternity, you can't do this this or this or this or this to a faral horse. And then you got to live with them. And some of the sharking stuff is probably is like probably going to prove to be the same thing we were hell on sharks in the worst possible way. But then you create a problem for yourself in the future by having it be that you've like closed the door on any kind of any kind of anything like any kind of harvest, any kind of sustainable use, you know. 01:57:21 Speaker 8: And to be honest, the way of taking fish has changed as well. So long line is the only thing that ever kept sharks in check, like the way they reproduce. The numbers that are there now, we probably can't catch up unless they allowed long line in again. And there's only a handful of boats on the east coast of the US that are allowed to long line for them, and they do well, Like when they're ready to do it, they'll go put out their long line, they'll catch their sharks. It's very efficient. And the area that they can even bring them in is limited now because they were bringing them in in South Florida. But the animal rights people were so strong there and like the the shark dive companies were like just blowing them up on social media and harassing the shit out of them, which is illegal, you know, such that the fishmongers stopped coming and they wouldn't come anymore. So it basically shut down at the sharking in South Florida. So if those guys want to do it, they got to do it pretty secretly and away from them because they were harassing them so much, death threats to the people's families, like it was it was crazy, really sad. 01:58:30 Speaker 2: Okay, what all kinds of fish did we get? 01:58:32 Speaker 7: Speaking of fish, you got a mackerel today, cereal mass cereal macrel. That was very cool. We've got some hogfish. We got some yellow jacks. We've got some mutton snappers. We got groupers, three kinds, black, nasa, yellowfin, we got nope. 01:58:56 Speaker 2: I caught a strawberry group around a fish pole. 01:59:00 Speaker 7: You also, yeah, we also caught some mahi on fishing poles. We've got some yellow tail snapper on fishing poles. And what am I missing from the. 01:59:09 Speaker 2: Dives yellow eye snapper yellow ye, Yeah, a couple of another deep drop snapper button which are black. 01:59:16 Speaker 3: Snappers, button snappers. Those and one other silky. 01:59:20 Speaker 8: White silky snapper which is also called squirrel. Sometimes a black market, you. 01:59:26 Speaker 2: Guys are fourteen white market. 01:59:29 Speaker 8: Yeah, different market. What they call margaret fish here. Oh, the game is called a margaret fish yep. 01:59:35 Speaker 2: And the one is regarded well, regarded as food and ones not really saw. 01:59:41 Speaker 3: It after the black we don't touch. 01:59:43 Speaker 8: Speaking of which, Kimmy, when you shot that, I know it was a mistaken identity. We never did weigh it. I think we cleaned it. 01:59:48 Speaker 3: That was a world record. 01:59:50 Speaker 2: I'm going to eat it. Oh and there was another fish we ran into. No, we we just fit. So we just fish. Let me clear up. We fish for four days everywhere from like trolling, deep dropping spinners, little bits of cut bait. Uh and then a variety of spearing styles and a bunch of people. So in some of these things we got like one or two of But you got that that fish that you think looks like the one you like with the molars in it. 02:00:24 Speaker 8: Oh yeah, the oh yeah, yeah yeah, fifteen oh yeah, fifteen yeah. Is that a grass porgy or that was a monster. 02:00:35 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah. 02:00:35 Speaker 8: I got an album co home coot Jack. Then I got that that big turtle, and they got that great white short. I got a four foot doors offered. Then Connor caught a big barracute off the dock. 02:00:51 Speaker 2: Again when we mean Sam caught a barracute off the dock, and then a you said yellow jack. 02:00:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're going strong. 02:01:07 Speaker 2: But predominantly we targeted snappers and snappers and groupers, predominantly, no hoggies. That's why Kimmy became hog dog. 02:01:16 Speaker 8: She was a group of hog. 02:01:18 Speaker 2: Hog Dog. 02:01:23 Speaker 3: Kimmy gets dialed in you could see surface. You see on the surface like here we go, fish coming out, that's coming up. 02:01:33 Speaker 7: I was extremely selective. 02:01:35 Speaker 2: So if the person that stole my fish is listening, oh my god, we didn't catch We didn't catch nothing. All right, guys, anything any want to add any final thoughts? 02:01:50 Speaker 6: I wanted to ask you because I've dove with you in a few different spots, like this type of diving compared to like Hawaii diving or Louisiana, Like how do you rate this type of diving with Cam and how he kind of targets this species and kind of having Kimi over here. 02:02:05 Speaker 7: Yeah, You've already experienced so many different environments of spearfishing and styles of spearfishing. 02:02:11 Speaker 2: So yeah, this has been the So let me back up a second on this question because mostly, like like trapping, like I learned, we just learned self taught. Never you know what I mean, hunting there was there was there wasn't any kind of hunting media. Just you just knew what the guys around you knew, right, and fishing you just kind of figured out things as you went. But with with spearfishing, I've just been fortunate where I've been able to go to just set the period of my life and being later and later in life and more access to resources, and just meeting so many people traveling around. I've been able to go to with like the best people in the world, so like some of the coolest spots. So it's just been a different journey. And of the of of those things you're bringing up Hawaii going there, I would say there that the strangest experience I had there was when we went way off the off the shelf. How deep was it fifteen feet? 02:03:25 Speaker 6: No, it's like five thousand or six thousand. 02:03:28 Speaker 4: Oh, that's it's over a mile. Yeah, that's right. 02:03:30 Speaker 2: No, we were out, we were out at one point six Yeah, I think it's five or six thousand feet of water. That is just a sur is a surreal feeling to be there with the pelagic fish swimming around. It's just surreal. There's a there's a three dimensionality to it that you're so many miles from shore and it's miles deep and it just there's life still. Yeah, that was that was strange. The uh, the oil rigs, which I've dove a couple of times in the Gulf, I've done I've done a lot of other stuff like every year we go to bah and just fish off the shore, off the rocks, you know, but uh, the rigs. What's interesting to me about that, the like this this this very vibrant man made ecosystem, the amount of life that is generated by those oil rigs, and the the the the sort of juxtaposition of ideas of this sort of like central theme. Right, if there's a Disney movie and there's a bad corporation, what are they involved in? Right? But then you go to those rigs and it's like dripping with life. So that's really interesting to do. And they're thing that's so different there is to be on the surface and you can't see your hand in front of your you can't see the end of your spear gun, you can't see your hand in front of your face. And you got to go down fifteen feet to see what's going on, and then it opens up is bizarre. 02:05:07 Speaker 6: Then you shoot a fish and you go back into and you go back into the. 02:05:10 Speaker 2: Murk and it's like that is such a weird thing to lay there and not know what's down below you. And then you dive down because it's all that stuff from the Mississippi River coming out and that that dirty fresh water floats on top of the clean water. That's bizarre here. Just it's like stunning water clarity. I mean, why he's got great water clarity. But here the thing that's most on you, that's most striking to me if you look at those those other each of these distinct areas and having a thing that's most striking here, what's most unusual is that you can be cruising along and forty feet of water and you'll pick up a grouper and he's like, he knows you're there. He does right that when they're doing that, Oh yeah, but he's not in a terrible hurry. But he's gonna go and he probably knows where he's going. And there's these cracks in the seafloor, little sandy runs and canyons, and you can just follow them, follow them, follow him, follow them, follow them, follow them, follow him, and eventually he goes into a hole. And he might not like that hole and you go down, he's gonna spook, but eventually he's gonna go into like like I was equating it to when they lost Bin Laden and Tora Bora in Afghanistan, that cave complex. The adventure they're gonna go into like a cave complex. That's fun trying to go and root out the feasibility of like finding him, you know. And that's one anywhere where Cameron, you excel is like taking that flash like he like disappears in the one hole, comes out, disappears, shines, shines, shines here, and then you tell by his body laguage or he found it, because that's the way he gives you the thought. 02:07:06 Speaker 8: And I leave the light down, the light looking into the right hole. 02:07:10 Speaker 7: You know. 02:07:11 Speaker 2: It's so funny like that. I can't think of an equivalent anywhere. 02:07:15 Speaker 7: I think what I like the most about this about diving here is I've never been so assertive, and that's what I like about it. I think in Hawaii like feels like all the fish there have these like PhDs stay away from humans, and so you really have to just lay down. And it's just sometimes it feels like it's all about how long you can hold your breath, you know, and how still you can stay. And it's a totally different thing of just like trying to stay so still and hold your breath and wait for that fish that is going away to turn around and get curious enough to come back and then very very slowly lift your hand up and try not to spook it up and take a shot. And that's like super cool and ninja stuff. But two, unleash the part of you that's just sending it from the surface and like dive bombing down after a fish is not just refreshing for me. But I also don't want it to be mistaken as oh, it's so easy here, because it's not. And you still absolutely have to be smooth. You absolutely have to be patient because if not, you're going to blow that shot. And and you have a pole spear, so you absolutely have to get close. Yeah, spirit spirits. I would say that seventy five percent of our failed shots were because we we rushed it and we took it when we were too far away, because too far away can just be three inches too far away. Because with the pole spear, you really got to get close. And so it's a whole different challenge where I like, I like bringing out the side of myself of just like going because I don't get to do that a lot. But at the same time, you still have to apply gola ca ninja, you know, and then still be patient. But the whole thing is action and energy. And it's energy because you're holding the pole spears, so your muscles are all working and all of it. It's invigorating, it's and the fish are big. 02:09:24 Speaker 8: There's so many. The challenge here too is there's so many different species. And I mean every time you guys surface, we talk about what happened. And there's times when you need to speed up. There's times we need to slow down with the same fish, or that you need to have laid down or gone faster. And it's that's what makes it so cool is there's no one way to do it. It's very situational, so you have to draw from everything that's happened in the five days before to this moment to make it happen. To be like, Okay, this one that's gonna do this, I think I. 02:09:56 Speaker 7: Need to be there. Then Yeah. 02:09:58 Speaker 2: The fish that eludes me is the uh and I don't even I never even had one, like in range really is a couberra. 02:10:05 Speaker 8: Yeah they're tough. 02:10:06 Speaker 2: I'd like to get a Couberrera someday. 02:10:08 Speaker 5: Man different than the Koobi Chopra chopper. 02:10:12 Speaker 2: That's different. 02:10:14 Speaker 6: That was my one of my favorite moments is and I watched that coublera scare off that shark. That was like, I've never seen that. I've never hunted something that's scaring off the sharks that are coming in. That's really cool. 02:10:25 Speaker 8: That's good they're aggressive. What was your what was your favorite fish of the trip? 02:10:29 Speaker 7: That was my question for you too. 02:10:34 Speaker 2: Oh, I know what I hadn't like the big mutton snapper I thought was pretty impressive. Yeah today, Yeah, just the ones we've gotten today. We hit the ground running because I hadn't seen that when I was I hadn't seen that when I was with you guys before. Nothing. I mean, I like, I love it all man. But it was cool to get those big, like really nice big mutton snapper. 02:10:52 Speaker 8: What was what was your top moment? 02:10:53 Speaker 2: Do you think you're getting that fish out of that hole so you didn't have to do It's pretty cool. Yeah, dude, I'd still be out there trying to get that fish out of there, because I'd take an hour between dives, you know, to try to go down there and sorting that whole situation. 02:11:11 Speaker 8: Now and so different than hunting. So like hunting, if say you you wound a deer or whatever, and then I shoot it and finish it. It's kind of a letdown here. It's everybody has got to work together because you got to get it done. So it's it's a group effort. It's so different than any other sport because it is such a team effort. And I I'm appalled by the people that think this is an individual sport. It's such a group sport. That's what makes it so fun. That's why this week was so much fun because it's really just a bunch of buddies hanging out, getting food and having an awesome time doing it. 02:11:50 Speaker 6: You know. 02:11:51 Speaker 2: One of the one of the most it worked out in the end, but like a real sinking feeling is when I went down shot a grouper and ran out of air and couldn't get him out. And as I'm coming up, I'm watching my spear in the entire spear ship vanishes into the hole. I was like, that ain't good. He wound up coming out like a different route, you know, and like dragged the spearshat back out with them, you know, and then you went back down. 02:12:13 Speaker 8: He's like nope, an he went right back in. 02:12:15 Speaker 4: So we did not. 02:12:16 Speaker 2: I don't think we had any really good way. 02:12:18 Speaker 7: No I'm really proud of us for that, Like every fish that we ended up shooting in a hole, even if it ripped off, or even if it hold up immediately somehow, just like the teamwork, we recovered every single fish. And I love how everybody focused on that, Like no one was just like all right, see you later. 02:12:35 Speaker 2: You know that, every single. 02:12:36 Speaker 7: Person was Okay, we're all staying here until and so many comes out. 02:12:40 Speaker 8: So many times when we were doing it too, because it creates such a commotion. Stuff came from so far away. 02:12:45 Speaker 2: Oh sure, lots of stuff coming in, and we. 02:12:47 Speaker 8: Had more shooters, so they just got added to the jettie. 02:12:50 Speaker 2: On that one, I was expecting you just to start coming up one flay at a time. But eventually you got that thing out there. Here's half a flay. I'll go back down. 02:13:05 Speaker 8: That was a process. So that fish went. You shot it in one hole and it went up into a crack there was I mean, it felt solid. I put my feet on the reef. 02:13:13 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like it was in a concrete ank. 02:13:15 Speaker 8: You're never coming out. And I'd pretty much given up on it, and I went and looked on the other side because I saw a little stirrup and I went in there. I was like, okay, there he is. 02:13:22 Speaker 3: So I went down. 02:13:23 Speaker 8: I was like, you know, told you just to cut it off. And when I went down, he was right there. So it's like, I'll just kill it and let Steve do the next part. So as I was killing it under my right elbow, I felt what I thought was a shark's nose coming, and it was you coming to grab it. And it scared the I was like, I'm about to get eating and nobody said anything. 02:13:45 Speaker 6: I'll send you that shot because I was right there. 02:13:48 Speaker 2: Oh, I heard it too, but I thought he was trying to tell me something. No, I didn't even know. You didn't know I was. 02:13:53 Speaker 3: I was with you. 02:13:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, Now that was a great trip, man, Thanks guys. Thanks you guys did a great job of showing me. All right, kimmy good. 02:14:05 Speaker 7: I am so good. I'm just thinking of all the fish we're going to bring. 02:14:07 Speaker 2: Home an eat all right, Thank you everybody, Thanks for joining. 02:14:10 Speaker 7: Thank you. A ride on. 02:14:23 Speaker 2: On sealry shine like silver in the sun. 02:14:33 Speaker 8: Ride ride on along, sweetheart. 02:14:42 Speaker 2: We're done beat this damn horse today. 02:14:46 Speaker 3: Taking a new one drive. 02:14:52 Speaker 7: We're done beat this damn horse today. 02:14:57 Speaker 8: So take your new one. 02:15:00 Speaker 3: I don't