00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by First like creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt, first Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, Real quick. A couple of things we want to announce here. So are I hate to call our former co host, but used to be. Yanni was on like on this show. Yanni was on every episode. This is back when Yanni produced. Uh Yan needs to produce our TV show. We were always together, like we always say, nuts on a dog. Uh Yanni was on every episode. Yanni like missed one episode in years of recording. But he's going on. He's got it. He's got his own stuff. He does his own show, runs his own program. Um. He is launching a new podcast which is called which is our gear Talk Podcast, Which is Yanni a collaborative project between our very own Yanni pou tell Us and Jordan's budd What We're gonna do on our gear Talk podcast where they just talk about all things gear, arguments about gear, what's coming out, what they like, how they packed is everything from the Gear world, deep dives on certain gear items, history on gear and how it came to be the way it is. Uh, that's launching. We're gonna put the first episode. It has its own home, right, but we're also gonna throw the first episode on this podcast feeds. On the Meat Eater podcast feed, you'll find the first episode. It'll it'll serve up to you in your feed. Make it convenient for you to check out. That's gonna happen on October twenty if you listen. When you listen, and if you like it, meaning when you like it, you can go on over and pick that show up and subscribe to it and it will be served to you on its own feed. But again, we're gonna launch it here on this feed just to make everybody aware of Yanni's new show is Gear Talk Podcast. Okay everybody, this is a special report because you got the source Krins like um who those fellers that who those feathers that broke the Watergate story Woodward and Bob Woodward and Carl Yeah, that's like karn Um because krint found Krinn found. Our are are a phenomenal connection to the mystery of Montana's toilet man. Uh, and so we we have a special report. I think, uh, Phil should put in like a special report sound. All initial opinions are, this is genuine. What you're about to see may disturb you for those of you not to where I'm gonna. I'm gonna back way up here. We recently, uh, a bunch of people send us a story from Vice dot com. But we've now we've officially out journalist out journalistic, that's a verb. We out journalisted Vice at this point. Now we're passing them up. But we had got turned onto a story by reporting on Vice about a Montana man stuck in a vault a vault toilet at a fishing access site. That's the connection to this show is because we like, we spent a lot of time talking about the outdoors, hunting, fishing obviously, and so since it was a fishing access site, it was fair game if you had gotten stuck in I don't know, like at a Monsters rock festival or something like that. It had nothing to you know what I mean, It just be I would never even read the article, but it's it's a fishing story deep down. You with that Hayden, you catalog it under fishing story catalog. Now we so a man who had allegedly gone in to retrieve his phone got stuck in a pit toilet at a fishing access site and spent some hours down there. Uh. We were talking about how we would love to get that gentleman on the show to talk about his adventure. Um, he has not come forward. However, today we will hear from we have here live in the studio, the American hero. We have in the studio, the man who just made the discovery and and performed the rescue. We've also got just there's one of those things like this thing about falling into a pit toilet, falling into an outhouse toilet or climbing into one. At first felt like such a weird anomaly, but we have received so much fee back from people um about similar escapades that it's like it's like we tapped into one of the like the hidden world, a hidden world of this. Right away we heard from a woman we got a picture. It's on if you go on my Instagram, like at Steven Ornell, you'll see a picture of a young lady crim dozer. Yeah, we should make it. This should be our third calendar. That's all I wanted yea. So we have a picture of a young lady um suspended through the i guess the pedestal of a pit toilet, trying to use her feet to fish out a phone that fell in. We just recovered. We just reported on another story of from a firefighter out in New Jersey whose crew had to recover a man who was down in the vault of a pit toilet at a at a boat launch. Again it turned out he was a fetishist. Uh. We then got from we had a long letter from another person involved the law enforcement who talked about what a recurring issue it is with fetishists, and he spent some time with the Forest Service and had a lot of run ins with them, and he said the National forests really are the land of many uses. Even describes a harrowing story of later padding down a person that he had found in the vault toilet to find that he had had filled his pockets with the excrement found in said toilet. Some lift operators who had to rescue an owl out of a pit toilet and they had to lower their colleague down into the quote cesspool of ship and piss and he rescued the owl. It goes on and on. One person even rolled that they even changed the structure of their pit toilet things in order that there's not a beam with which people can more easily get themselves in there, because they imagine they're going to get out easily, but they wind up getting so slicked up they can't get purchase on the beam. So to prevent them from lowering themselves in, they removed this thing. Where is his beam? He didn't get into a lot of details, but he mentioned like a structural He mentioned making a structural adjustment that it wouldn't be like such a simple matter to get down in there. So it's like a thing man, you know, like you peel back the layers of the onion. And everybody listening, most people listen have been into one of these structures. Oh, I've stared down many a hole. And i've because I read the signs about like don't put weird stuff down in here because it's hard to get it out. Yeah, you know, who we should have had looking, but I'll look, we should have had Miles on to give us a little bit of insight. Yeah, because he's the guy that when you put weird stuff in, he's the guy that has to try to act going to take care of it. Yeah, he manages a lot of the fishing accessish toilet states in eastern Montana. He would have been a great source. Yeah. Maybe what he'll come on when we get the guy that actually was in there, when he comes on, I don't know that he's coming forward. Joe, can you introduced self? Yeah, my name's Joe Murray, live in Helena, and I'm the lucky guy that found the guy in the vault toilet. Give everybody your professional background, because this is your professional background. Just makes you sound like a straight shooter. I don't know if you are, but it's like if I heard that, I'm like, that guy's got your straight shoot. Yeah. Well, uh retired two years ago. Uh as the Deputy Legislative Auditor for the state of Montana. Yeah, guy like that. The guy like that as a mess round. No, no, no, I am a straight shooter. Tell it like it is. And you have your your wife is joining you today? Yeah, my my my wife Kristen is here with me. Who were you weren't there for the adventure that's about this phenomenal okay, okay, And then you have your friend Bruce how you doing who we can thank for. We'll hear the story about how we found you, guys, and then Bruce's wife Dorothy Dorothy. Okay, al right, first off, before we get into the before we get into that faithful, faithful day, how did it wind up that? How did krinn? How did it go that? We gotta hold you guys? Yeah, that was that was me. I. Joe and I've known each other forever, yes, high school, firefighting together, knowing each other for five years. And Joe's got a history recently of doing just terrible photoshop stuff and sending it to me. And he had photoshop. I was convinced he had photoshop this picture of him standing next to this ball toilet. I mean, it was just it was so terrible. I didn't even respond to it. So since retirement, this is what he's been up. This is no longer I trade shooting. Yeah, yeah, that kind of blows easily. Yeah, he's into making fake stuff after straight a whole career straight shooting, after several years of making stuff up? Why would I believe this? And he just so happened in a few weeks after the year. What was the photo he sent you of him standing at the at the toilet with the individual stuck up to his neck and Joe standing there with these I was convinced it was like Mickey Mouse rubber gloves on that he had he had mocked up and and I just looked at it, and it's like looking at one of those glory pictures of Sasquatch. You just like, who had snapped the photo? Did you snap? No? It was it's the picture that was on Facebook. So there was another couple that he'll talk about that were there, and she's the one who took the picture. Yes, yeah, so she she just kind of casually walked over and clicked it real quick. And social media. Yeah, so you don't know if she posted it or she sent it to somebody and then they posted it. So we have no idea how that got on Facebook. And when Joe was after I realized after a night of sitting on our deck and having a couple of beers, and Joe starts telling the story, and I realized, my god, this thing is true. So you were originally just dismissed it. Oh yeah, I didn't give it two seconds worth of thought, just just because I knew Joe and anyway, as he's getting into this story, and I'm realizing, my god, this is a true story, atly some parts of it. The other couple that was sitting there with us, she bring quietly brings up a little bit of your podcast earlier on, and I'm starting to kind of like, oh my god, Joe, you gotta you gotta finish the rest of the story. I mean, this thing is out there and nobody knows really quite what happened. You got to tell this story, and Joe felt that the reporting that we did was a little off. It was it was by far the most accurate, but it was still a little bit off. And Uh, Joe tells me, well, yeah, you know, I sent a message to you know, Steve on Instagram. I don't know why he hasn't gotten back to me. And I never have. I just never. I an't I alre'tven know how to go about getting in there and looking at This was on a Saturday of Labor Day weekend, So Sunday morning, Joe and uh Christian and their friends Dan and Cathy, they all head back to Helena and Uh, the dust hadn't cleared my driveway, and I went flying inside and I just went right to you know, like meat eater dot com. And I just started finding places to actually send an email, not just an Instagram post, and uh, send something off. It's Labor Day weekend, Sunday morning. You know, of course, nothing's happening on that day. Monday's a holiday, nothing's happening. By the time Tuesday comes around, I've kind of forgotten the whole thing. And I go downtown and do something. I come home and geez, my phone's lit up. I've got I've got a couple of phone calls I've missed from a number that I doesn't I don't recognize. It's Karin's number. Followed up with a text message and it's a good thing you you texted, because I wouldn't have paid any attention. And I play the voicemail and as karinn and she's laughing so hard. I can hardly get the I can hardly get the message. And she's like, oh my god, Bruce, you've got to call me. You've got to call me now. And she had the text message to boot and so I called her and she just starts laughing and she says, yes, we want to we want to meet the guy Joe, And uh, she says do a do an introduction via text, you know, text Joe and Karin at the same time. And so I did that and I literally sent the text and I could just do a countdown three, two, one, queue the phone, and Joe calls me. He's like, what the hell. Well, you know what's funny about this is since you didn't respond and you just ignored me. I went on to Karin's uh Instagram, uh site or whatever you call it, and I sent her a message and I didn't. I mean, it literally wasn't ten seconds after I sent this, I got that text from Bruce coincidence. Yeah, it was weird. And so I was like, so that's when I called him, and I said, I started to respond via text, and I saw there was another number on there who I obviously didn't know who it was, and I thought, no, I better not because it wasn't a very nice text, you know. But so I called him and I said, what the hell, come on? He goes nope, and he told me this story and he said, you know, you need to call her. So I get I after I phone said okay, I'll give her a call. So I called and I started to leave a message and then I heard the phone peeping through and then made connection with Karin and we chatted for a while. She goes, ahead, you want to do a video call tomorrow and you know, I'd love to hear the story and this and that and so yeah, so we set one up and did a video call the next the next day to excellent tell the story. And this is a good little insight on how Korean conducts her business. Yeah, yeah, she's really good this kind of stuff. She's really good. But uh, you know, we had a great conversation, you know, and then she hears, you know, my professional background, perus professional background, and it's like, oh, this makes it even better. And I said, well, I'll just walk you through the story. And so I did, and here we are, you know, doing a doing your podcast. So let's get into the day. You what are you out doing the day of coming back from uh, we had runted a vr I runted a VR v O up just out of Sula. Uh for our anniversary. Oh that's real man, Yeah, a little trip. Loved that well, anniversary thirty two years gratulations. Yeah, and uh so we always tried to do something and uh, we used to spend a lot of time in that area when we were dating, because back then I was actually in banking. I was started Boise and then got transferred to Salmon, Idaho, and that's where I met my wife. Her dad was the forest supervisor over there, and and so you know the Combs family over there, there's a few of them. Actually, yeah, yeah, So I thought, you know, it would be fun to go over there because we used to go over there and spend time, you know, messing around that country and were dating. So I thought I'll do that. So we booked this v R. B O, great little place over on the east fork of the of the Bitter Ut, and we I don't know, We're there three four days and fishing. Yeah, we fished a little bit, did did some uh really nice hike back into a place called Star Falls. Beautiful country. Um, and we were on our way back from a nice romantic anniversary weekend. Oh I'm hearing that sounds like a great trip. And uh, you know, so when we went there, we went through Missoula, said we'll just do a big loop. So we stopped at a brewery and had some lunch and stuff, then off to Sula and said, well, when we go back, let's let's go back through the Big Hole and so, um, you know, we got coffee and water and we got out of Wisdom. Um, I don't know ten miles or so, and I told Chris Esse God, I gotta pee. And you're driving along the Big Hole River, driving along the Big Hole River, and I said, I have to pee And asked her do you have to go? Which is always a yes, but this since and it was a no. One she goes, can't you can just wait till the rest area around the interstate and no, no. So, you know a couple of usually I'll just pull over on the side of the road, you know, sure, go and I I started tune and I went, now, you know, Kristen, if I stopped, she's she's gonna go. And uh so, I thought, well, let's just pull into fish Trap. This is this is the intimacy you get after you know, you dial, You're like you're playing in ahead. What they don't you don't you know more than they know about when they're gonna want to be Yeah, I mean, well, and I know my wife well enough that I could stop literally every ten miles since she could pee, so that we're moving on. But uh so, I said, well, I'm just let's just stop at fish trap because my wife actually likes that. When she's was heading back to salmon and stuff, she'd always she stopped there because it was kind of a easy stop and quick and go. So I pulled in there. And when we pulled in, which was really surprising, there was not another soul. They're usually there'll be a camper camp there. Uh, you know, maybe somebody weighed fish and boat launch and I you know, I think it was really hot. I mean it was ninety degrees at least, and and and I think the big hole was on hood owl restrictions at this point, so there wasn't anybody tell people that means just well, basically, whod all the restrictions are? You gotta stop fishing on the river at two two o'clock in the afternoon, and so you can't fish from two to seven in the morning or six in the morning or something like that because the water temperatures like it's like it's too too hard on fish. Yeah. Yeah, the water temperature gets over and it's sixty eight degrees or something at seventy degrees, and then if you catch them and let them go, mortality mortality goes. Yeah. So I pulled in there and there was nobody there, and and you know, I'm sitting there thinking to myself, I'll watch the I'll turn around the corner to the vault toilet and there'll be one car there. And I turned around and there was a pick up there, and I was just like, nice pickup. Oh, it looks like a work truck. Um, any particular company written on it. Not that I noticed plate number. I I don't have the plate number memorized. Um, but I thought crap. So I just parked and I thought, well, I'll just walk over. I was actually just gonna walk over to the bushes just yonder. Yeah. Uh. I thought no, My luck is there's a couple of trails. And I thought, as soon as I do that, whoever's in that truck is gonna come walking out. Now I'm just exact. I thought I'll just go use the the vault toilet. So, but did you call the vault toilet prior? I probably called it an outhouse. After this, after this whole thing, for sure, Yeah, yeah, it's gonna for sure I'm gonna like start really differentiating. Uh yeah, I'm becoming you know. It made me more professional and how I call, Oh, yeah, something out the guy that really knows what's going on, that's right. Yeah. So anyway, I walked up to the door, grabbed the handle. It's locked, and I'm like, so I thought, well, I'll just go back to the bush. Yeah. I started walking away and I hear a guy go hello, and I go, you know, just kind of hello, you know, you like into myself. Yeah, I know you're in the doors locked and uh. So I started to keep walking and night Christen, where are you right now? So I was in the truck then, just waiting for him to get out, because actually I did have to go after that. Yeah, is that all ending? It's true? You do? You learn there after thirty two years. So I was waiting my turn. So here's the hello and I hello, and uh and so uh, all of a sudden, he goes, I need help, and I said, you need help? What's what's going on? It was I dropped my phone in the toilet and I went in after it and I'm stuck. And I went, you're stuck and he goes, yeah, I'm stuck. I said, is your head down in the toilet? Because I you know, I envisioned he crawled in head first and trying to fish it out. He goes, no, my head's above the toilet. I'm like, oh, okay, all right, well I know you can at least your heads above you know, water, and and so I said, hang on a minute, I've got I'm gonna go to my truck and pull out a couple of screwdrivers tools, just to see if I can get this door open somehow. And he goes, okay, he's calm, he's calm, pretty calm. And I said, how long have you been in there? And he goes, I've been in here for three hours, and you're the first person to stop. And I went three hours and he goes, yeah, three hours. And he goes, I've been trying to crawl out of this, and I'm all scraped up and I'm I'm just beat. I'm absolutely whipped. I can't get I can't get myself out. And I said, okay, all right, And I'm still in my mind trying to process how somebody would crawl down into, you know, the pedestal toilet, you know, I just you know. So I walked back to my truck and I opened my back door to lifted my seat up and get a couple of screw drivers. UM and I. Kristen looked at me, and she goes, what's wrong, because I had to look on his face like, holy sh it, something just happening, and and I said, I just looked at her and I went, uh, there's a guy. The doors locked and the guys in there stuck in the toilet. He's in the toilet. And she goes, what the hell, what you can't I said, that's what he told me. Needs help. I got to try to get him out. And she's like, oh God. So she gets out. So I walked over and from the reason I grabbed screw drivers. You know, of course, that particular vault toilet you know, doesn't just have the button lock on the handle, it's got a bolt, got dead bolt lock. I thought, well, I don't think I don't know if I can get that get in there with you know, through with that. So I told the guy, said, hey, I'm gonna there's a vent on the bottom of the door for at least most of the FWP sites, just for ventilation. So I told the guy said, hey, I'm going to take the this vent door off and I'm gonna see if I can get down, just kick the the vent out on your side. And he goes, well, it's it's screwed in over here, and I said, yeah, I realized that, but if I can just kick it hard enough, I might be able to They're not screwed in very far. I might be able to break through. And he goes, okay. So I took the screws off the vent and except one didn't come out, so I had to bend it back and I sat down and I just started kicking the screen. I kicked it, I don't know, probably a dozen times. And I told him, I said, well, you're right, I can't. I can't get through this. I can't break it down. They're they're screwed in better than I thought. He goes okay, and I said, well, just hanking tough. I'm gonna see if I can jim me this lock somehow. So um, so I took a flathead screw driver and I stuck it into the dead bolt and just started reefing on it, you know, just you know, thinking I'm never going to get this open, and and uh, you know, lo and behold. After about the sixth three pulled jim In did enough and it's the door popped open. Oh yeah, when that popped open, it was you know again, I'm talking it's ninety degrees by this time, and you know, it a wall of stench. Just it just about knocked me over, absolutely worse than normal. There's a reason they tell you to keep the lids closer, to keep the lids closed. But um so, once I kind of got through the whole, man, that's that's that's awful. I I looked expecting to see a guy stuck in the pedestal, but the pedestal toilet is laying on the floor and he's in the hole and as I can see is his head and you know, he's kind of resting with his arms up on the on the floor. So he had taken those toilets, that toilet often. I didn't know you could do it. And then as soon as I saw that, I went, oh, that's how they clean those out, you know, because I was sure I was wondering, you know, God, that's gotta be a pain in the butt. You know, go get the septic truck or who whatever, pumps him out and stick it down that and you know, never, you know, it's not like I lay awake at night wondering how they clean bolt toilets. But how how wide is that? What's the aperture on that whole? Um? Oh? Three? You know it's it's kind of it's just round dish, maybe ovalish, three feet, you know. So he must have had limited upper body strength because if you can get your elbows up through a hole, well, he was so so when I got when I saw him, you know, when I when I saw his head, I didn't think much. I just kind of thought, oh, this is weird. How old? How old is he? Oh? I suppose he's in his you know, early forties, only forties, younger than yeah, yeah, are you older than young forties? Okay, so yeah, younger, probably younger than you. Certainly younger than me. Like I somehow I like to picture older than me. Yeah, well we can do that. So I I I when I got through and I walked up to him, I just kind of went, hey, how you doing? And he goes, well, I've been fucking better. So anyway, I said, yeah, I'm sure you have. I'm sure you have. So I walked up to him and I looked in. He pretty much fills up the whole hole. I mean, he's a big he's a big man. Um. But I looked. I went, oh, he's naked. He doesn't have any clothes on. I turned and I looked at the door, and I went, yeah, he is naked. All his clothes are hanging on the hook in the door. And I said, so you took all your clothes off, and goes, Yeah. I didn't want to get him dirty. So I hung him up and crawl down in here and get it, get the phone, and and and you know, and I was just gonna crawl out, He goes, I just can't get myself out. I just don't have the strength. And I keep getting my body keeps getting stuck on the whole because he's he's, he's he was a mountain of a man. Like, what's what's the volume of waste down in the vault? Uh? Well, I I I'll get into that little later. I can't say exactly, only based on sound like the level of commitment to get down in there from him. Yeah, Well it would be a matter. It's simply have just taken the vault toilet off or you're going in You going, oh yeah, I would say he's probably knee deep in there. Okay, I don't know if it had been just so recently cleaned that he felt like he could stand over in the corner and be on pavement. No, no, no, you were down. You were not going to avoid anything that was down in that hole. Knee, Yeah, that would be my guess. And and so um So when I walked in, I the first thing I saw actually was his phone. He got his phone. He reached down in there and dug around and got and the phone was, you know, just laying there on the on the on the floor and lit up. It was still working, So he was successful. Why why hadn't he called there? There is no cell service there. It's absolutely that entire big hole valley is completely void of cell service. That sounds like a good placed. Three hours no one shows up, But can't you call like one without yeah, soul service. I have no idea. Uh did you ever find out what he was doing or how the phone got in there? All's he said was he was he stopped there to do some fishing, and he said, well, I had some business to take care of and before and he went in there and he said, he just dropped his phone into the toilet. Mm hmm uh. You know it sounds like you know, something everybody's done. I don't usually take my phone in anywhere that has no cell service, in a vault, even if it does, I don't take my phone in there just because you know, how many times have you taken a you know, something in with you and it's slipped out and went in there. It's like, oh crap, but no, that's down there, but it's going to stay there. But I just think he walked in and I don't know if he slipped or went to turn and the phone slip, but it dropped down in there, and and he was adamant he was going to get it, you know, I can't tell you why. And the phone on the floor was soiled. Yeah, well it was, Yeah, no doubt it was soiled. But it was still working, you know. I mean, you know, you know, like I dropped my phone in our hot tub at home a week or so ago and pulled it out, you know, within about thirty seconds, and it still works. So yeah, you know, so liquid solids, if you know, I think it was an iPhone. I think they're you know, they're pretty solid, pretty solid products. So um So anyway, so I told the guy, I said, well, and he was all scraped up. He had scrapes everywhere on his body from trying to get out because edges are pretty sharp on those on those holes. I mean, they're just completely square. And I was just like, uh yeah, man, the poor guy. And so I said, well, we're going to try the easiest thing first, and I said, I'm just gonna come. I said, I'm gonna go get some gloves, and I said he was okay, And so as I was walking, I turned around trying to make a joke, and he didn't think it was very funny. But I turned around and said, don't go anywhere. I'll be right back, and he goes, I'm not gonna go anywhere. Okay, Well that's not so I went and got my gloves and I came back in and I said, all right, I'm gonna grab your hand and under your elbow arm armpit area, and I said, you just push with your other hand. Let's just see if I can pull you up. I said, it's gonna be hard, but maybe it's our first, you know, the first thing we gotta do. He was okay, So you know, I said, I'm gonna say one, two, three, go and on go, just start working. I said, okay. So I grabbed his hands, his hand as you know, there's arm pit, and I went one, two, three, go, and I went to lift. I I didn't move them an eighth of an inch. I mean, it was just I just went, hell, this is not gonna work, and he goes, yeah, plus I'm tired. I just can't. I can't push myself up. I went, okay. So, uh you know, he did say, he goes, if I could get just a little elevation something to stand on, it might help, you know, help push myself out as your lift. And I said, okay. I said, well, I don't have anything in my in my truck. Uh you know, I I did think, well, I could put you know, Kristen down in the hole and stand on her shoulders, but I don't. I don't think she would have gone for that. So so I went, you know, I just did not have anything in my truck. I had a couple of fly rods and uh, you know a little travel bag, and that wasn't gonna work. So I went to his pickup and I looked in the back and he had two pieces of would basically you know, quarter sections like firewood that were um, we're chopped that he had back there. So so I grabbed one of those and uh, I took that in and I said, let's try this. He goes, well, it might be pretty wobbly. I don't know if it's gonna work. I said, well, we really don't have a whole lot of options right now. I mean, we got to give this a try. And he goes, yeah, you're right. I said, so can you get that down there? Because I'm looking at him, I'm looking at the whole and I'm going there isn't a quarter inch or how bench of room between his body and it's a tight fit even when he duck away from the hole. Yeah, yeah, he could. I mean, you know, like I said, he was, he was. He was a big man. And I I just just like, I don't know how we can get this in there. But you'll see, you know, I'll let him do what he needs to do and to see if he can, you know, squase it between his So I said, okay, take this and let's give this a try. Give this a shot. He goes, I said, yeah, can you get that in there? And he goes, oh, yeah, I can get it. I can get it there. And I said okay. So I gave him a block of wood and he dropped in the hole and I just went, holy shit. I was like, oh my god, he's gone. He fell in, he sunk. He's just you know, and I didn't know what, you know. I was just kind of freaked out about it. And I hear him down in the hole just walking around. Knowledge you can hear, you know, it's the sound you can of all this here stuff coming up between his toes, like walking through the marsh. Yeah. Yeah. And so the you know, the block of wood is you know, maybe twelve inches tall, you know, maybe maybe sixteen inches, and you can hear him down there, you know, pushing it down and getting his studies. He guys down, his head pops back up. I said, did you get it in there? And he goes, yeah, it's kind of wobbly, but you know it might work. And I went, okay, okay, And now I'm looking at thinking, I don't know which hand he used to do that, but I had a long sleeve shirt and gloves. I that, okay, well, we just got to get this poor guy out of here. And had had had you at this point, has you thought I'm gonna leave this to the professionals, or were you just like committed to making at this point, I was a d percent committed to get him out, uh, you know, just to see if we could get him out, because you know, he'd been in there for three hours. And it's like, you know, so i'd call you a good Smaritan. But my understanding of a Smaritan is they were generally bad people. Yeah, some people say someone's a good smart and they're messing it up. It's like a good Smaritan was, these are like bad people, but here one did a good turn. That was my understanding. A little known fact about being a good Smarit. No, I don't know. I don't throw that around because you might be like, well, what's wrong with me? Well, no, I actually was kind of thinking about that. Technically probably fits. So you're really good at being a bad person, really good at being a bad person, that's right. So so anyway, you're just a nice guy. Next time you go into the coffee shot, you can when and you can be like, hey, can you give me the nice guy deal? And'd be like, really, bro, listen, pull the dude out of a well. But you know, and really, where I was thinking is you know, when I go inside of all toilet, hopefully somebody will do the same. So anyway, so we got he's got the block of wood down there, and he comes up and goes that giving you a little more elevation. He goes, yeah, a little bit, but pretty wobbily. He said, well, let's give it a try, and so he stood up on it and TELL lifted him up a little bit, but not a lot. That might be enough. And I said, just keep your knee bent, and when I say go, just push yourself and even if it falls over, it might give you enough momentum to get up. Because okay, So then one, two, three go, I went left block of wood fell over, and we got no further than we did the other way. I said, okay, let me go get that other block of wood. I said, let's we can make at least a half a block half around, yeah, or a half around, And so I I went and got the other one, handed it to him. He went back in the hole, um squished around in there. Now that didn't bother me at all. So we had you guys introduced yourselves to each other, yet, like were you on a first name basis? Well, we did, he I asked him what his name was, and I was so freaked out. I didn't really pay attention to what his name was. But but we'll say his name was Steve Chris And are you getting in there and helping him? Was kind of hanging around? No, I was just kind of hanging out because there's nothing I could have done. Um. But one thing I do have to say about Joe is that he always he was so calm with him. He never like freaked out, never, and he would talk to him just trying to keep him calm right because he's been in there for three hours already, And so I was really impressed with that, is because he just kept him calm, going, you know, but we're going to do this, We're going to get you out, you know, just hang tight kind of thing. So you picked the right guy all those thirty two years ago, I did. Yes, Yes, for sure, Yes, the guy getting tan could you could you sense there was like a little bit of like anxiety. Yeah, he was, you know, um you know, and and obviously the thing is just heating up and when you take that's just now it's just a hole. The it's hot, the gases are much worse. I mean it's just because it starts to the gate that it starts to the gate that vent pipe. That vent pipe is not getting it's not drawn a draft. Yeah, and it's it was, and it was bad. So so I put the other block of wood down and basically got the same result. It just wasn't gonna work. So this is where I went, Okay, well, in my truck, I've got rope and I've got a toe strap. So I was kind of looking and I thought, well, you know, they've got the the bar in there for um, you know, then the handicap bar. I thought that's not gonna work, and I don't want to rip that off the wall. And I thought, well, I could pull my truck up, and I thought, ropes out, that's just not gonna work. But the toast drop, you know whatever, four inches wide, and I thought, well, I could hook it to my truck and have him wrap it around maybe pull him out. Went no, that's not gonna work. I thought well, I could drop it down and maybe he could use it to try to climb up. And I thought he's not gonna be able to do that either. And this at this points when I thought, well, you know, I never actually thought about calling nine one one, but I did think about I thought I might have to drive over to there's a couple of ranch houses. I thought, maybe drive over there, and they probably have a landline we can call and then we can get you know, professional rescue crew there. And so I was sitting here and I was trying to say, how what am I going to do here? And maybe I'll maybe I'll just drive to the ranch house. And I'm still talk into the guy, but I'm thinking about what I want to do. And I hear another vehicle drive up, and and so I I thought, oh, it's fantastic. I said, hey, I just heard a vehicle drive up. I'm gonna see if somebody's in there that might be able to give us a hand. He goes okay, and sort of being in a in a bit of a smartass move, I started walking out. You turn around, and I went, don't go anywhere, just stay right there. And he thought it was about as funny as he did the first. So so I went out and Kristen had waved him down and stopped him, and uh, and so I walked up and and and when you when you stop them, what did you say? Well? I just kind of flagged him down, because sometimes when you go to a place like that, it's like, oh or else, somebody's already there. We're just gonna leave, right, So I didn't want him to leave, so I was just flagging him down. Then they pull up and um, husband and wife for boy for girlfriend. So he was driving. She was on the passenger side, of course, so she rolled down the window. About that time Joe came out. So you're you're able to introduce the subject, yes, So so I walked up and she rolled down the window, and you know, the guy they were actually coming there. They wanted to do a little bit of fishing, and and so I walked up to the window and I kind of leaned up under the passenger window and kind of stuck my head in because just so the guy at the vault toilet wouldn't hear the conversation. And I said, I could use I need I need a hand, I need some help. And the guy goes, well, what's going on? I said, And he had a hat on, had has a ponytail coming out the back and and I go, well, uh, there's a guy stuck in the vault toilet. I mean like stuck neck deep in the hole, and I had to break in, and the door was locked, and I had to break in and and I found him. He's been in there for three hours and closer to four hours now. And the guy just took his hat off, kind of pulled his ponytail out, rubbed his head, put his hat back on, put his ponytail back in his hat. He looked out. It was just just cracked me up. And looked out, you know, stared off out the windshield for about five seconds. He kind of had this look on his face. Then he just turned and looked at me and goes, well, there's something I didn't expect to hear today. I said, well, that makes two of us. I didn't expect to find this either. And I said, I said, I just can't get the guy out. I can't get him out by myself. I said, between the two of us, we might be able to lift lift him out. And he goes, yeah, okay, I'd be happy to give you a hand. So he pulled up and yeah, I said, get gloves. He goes, oh, yeah, he got gloves. And so we go walking in and I said, hey, I gotta I've got an extra body here. I give me a hand. He goes all good good, and the guy walks in. He goes, hey, how you doing. He goes, well, like I told the other guy, but fucking better. He goes, well, we'll get you out of here. We'll get this all figured out. So the guy goes, hey, hang on a minute, I just I'm gonna go out and check something. So the guy walks out. Kristan and his wife or his girlfriend were just kind of standing over by the vehicle, and he walks out with his hands on on his hips and he just goes what the fuck it was? And she and I under standing there, I'm like, I know, I know. So he just he just had to get that off his chest, and he just kind of looked at him. I was like, yeah right. I mean, so we walked in and we said, well, let's just do the simple thing first, let's give up the old and so we get down there and do the same thing. I grab an arm, hand, he grabs the other hand. We okay, one to three, and we this time you know where I didn't really budge them before. We maybe lifted him, you know, half an inch. It just it just wasn't gonna work. And so I told the guy said, you know what we need is just something he can stand on that we can put down there. I said, we put a couple of blocks of wood down there that they just weren't steady enough, maybe not talking. He goes, I said, do you have anything in your truck? I said, I don't have anything, and he goes, well, he goes, maybe let me let me go look. And so at some point in time when this was going on, he told his wife, you've got to get a picture or his girlfriend whatever it was, And that's where that picture came from. So she just kind of watched. They reported it to the they sent it into the well. I don't know how it got on Facebook. I have no idea. Well, and I'll get to that. The first time I saw that picture kind of here at the end of this kind of this story, because I didn't know she took pictures. I didn't know any pictures existed. Let's slot. So the guy, we walk over his truck and he's kind of looking and he's pulling things up. Finally he goes pulls out a lawn chair. It's one of those lawn chairs that you know, you can fold up, slip into a bag, and uh so he pulls that out. He goes, well, I'll dedicate this to the cause, you know, and I'm kind of bummed out because we introduced ourselves to each other. They were great people apparent I think apparently they're from Ennis, and you know, just they were really really nice folks and good sense of humor. You know, we had pretty some good chuckles while we're doing this because it's just so unbelievable. And and so he grabbed the lawn chair and he also grabbed a towel um because he thought, you know, if we get him out, you know, I'll put it on the edge of the hole because it's just a cement floor. You know, he's sweaty, sticky. He had a really good idea, get him on the towel and then we can kind of slide him, slide him out. And so so he laid the towel down. It's like a mill, right job. Yeah, yeah, engineering involved in this thing. The guy has lawn chair and he's going, I don't know how he's going to get this down that hole. Yeah. I just kind of went, oh, I'm sure he'll figure out way. And so he's because he's he's filling the whole hole, and I said, well, he'll get it down there. So the guy goes, okay, we're gonna use this lawn chair. It should be steadier if you can get it opened up and all four ft. He goes, if you can get it down there, and guy goes, yeah, I can get it down here. So he hands the guy the lawn chair and he's having the same thought I am at this point the guy that had gave him a lawn chair, Um, and how is he gonna get in there? And so he gives him the lawnchair. The guy drops into the hole, and the guy's going holy, he just went fell into I just looked at me, said, oh it's okay, it's all good. I've seen that before. He'll pop back up and he's like, oh my god. You can hear the guy down and there slashing around, and you know you hear the lawn chair open up and you can hear it hit the ground. He's kind of squeezing and that down into the bottom to get it steady. And and the guy pops up and we go, you got that lawn chair steady? And goes, yeah, it's pretty steady, and he said okay, Um, we're gonna say one to three and on go push yourself up, you know. And and I didn't know if the lawn chair would really hold with the you know, hold him and stuff. And he's standing up on yeah, at this point he standing and we looked and we went, this gives us, this gives us some some height that a lot better, you know. It lifted him up, you know whatever, probably you know, so we got more leverage. So he's sitting were on his on his torso as the edge of the hole. After with the lawn chair, uh can so before he was only able to go armpit, you know, just resting his arms. Now he lifted up about the bottom of the sternum. So I mean he went from from basically here there so his neck neck up to um. Yeah, and and he had he had something he could push on to help lift himself a fun So we told the guy, we said, okay, we need you to push up, but you need to do something for us because otherwise we're not going to get you out of this hole. And he goes, well, what's that. We said, as soon as we start lifting, you gotta suck in your your gut. You gotta suck that gut in so we can get you up over the hole. He said, but as soon as that your gut starts coming out, you need to thrust your ass otherwise it's gonna get stuck on that whole. So it's suck and thrust and he's okay, okay, yeah, its life lesson. So so anyway, so one, two three go, we grab him, you know, and he forgot to suck it first, and so we put him back down and said, okay, remember to sucking. You're gotting all right, one two three, go and pull him. We said, suck sucking, you gotta suck, suck it in, and we got him lifted up and then we had, you know, but got stuck on the other side of the hole, and it said thrust, so he thrust. So then he thrust it and up he came, and we got him on the towel and kind of slid him across, and we're just like, you know, so now we have this naked guy laying on the towel, and we just went, okay, you're out. We're gonna go out. Just take the towel, wrap it around you and walk to the river and go clean yourself. And so we just went out and we just went, Holy crap. I cannot believe that we just had to do this, But we got him out. The guy's good, you know, he was. He kind of laid there for a minute just to catch his breath. And so we went over and we were standing by our vehicles and talking. You know, I was thanking him for the help, and you're thanking the ponytail guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I wish, yeah, we introduced ourselves. I wish I could remember for their their names, like you'd go fishing with him. Yeah, oh yeah, he was a good yea And they said they're from Ennis, and Chris and I talked at some point in time, we're gonna go to Ennis. We're gonna go to the distillery or the brewery or something. And I'm gonna tell this story because I'm sure it's floating around and somebody's going to go. There's no way that guy hasn't gone. And yeah, and somebody because I bet you he's from Bozeman. And just didn't want to admit. I want to buy the guy a bottle of Whiskyers beers or so I just yeah, but it's not your But he helped, but he helped. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean I just want to thank him for the for the help. I mean, I thanked him, but I want to, you know, thank them but a toast or something, you know, because he didn't have to he didn't have to stay, but he and it was his idea for you should both be honored. You know those one you're driving along and you see those things like historical marker up ahead, yeah, historical marker. Yeah. So so anyway, so we're standing there talking and and the guy comes walking out. He's got the towel wrapped around him, and he's like, oh God, thank you guys. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. We're like, no problem, you know, jeez, I'm glad we could help. And and he comes why and he tells the guy He goes, I'm gonna buy you a new lawn chair. And he goes, no, no, don't worry about it. I can get another one of those pretty pretty easily. Don't don't worry about that. And so we just said you just keep walking, just keep walking to the to the river, go take a bath, and he goes, yep, yea, And so he's got his uh clothes kind of I think dangling off his arm or something. He's holding the towel and he went walking by and and the towel, let's just say the towel didn't quite go around around, you know, he went. He was fine in the front, but we just watched back. The back half just walshed towards the river. And so we were just sitting there and we were kind of talking a little bit, and I said, well, we're we were actually going to stop and the distiller impute and have a Caesar on the way home, and and so we were running a little late. But I went to my truck and I have hand sanitizer in there, and I took some and I cleaned myself up, and I asked, you want some of this. He's like, oh, hell yes, So I you know, she said, oh no, give me more. So I just emptied my bottle that you know, it's just a little bottle, gave him. And we were just like, you know, and so I said, well, he goes, well, we're here to fish. And I said, I'm just guess we're gonna pull our rods out and we're gonna Because it wasn't two o'clock yet, it was you know, I don't know. It was like eleven, you know, noon, and so he goes, I'm we're gonna go fish for a little bit. Said, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna head off to Umpute. You already knew what you were going to order. Al yeah, Well we actually talked about it when we left the VR. And I guess you know that because head Frame Distillery is a fantastic distillery. And you got a good Caesar and if you can't Caesar or a Caesar salad, drink, drink the drink. Also get your fixing to go get a Caesar. And it's actually a gin Caesar, which is the way they makes fantastic. So well, there must be a Montana thing because I was recently in White Sulfur and someone's like, oh, we should go get a Caesar over here. They have good ones. I'm like, what, yeahin Bloody Mary with clam juice. Yeah, clamato clamato yeah yeah, but it's just not Tomato with juice is just thick and gross tomato juice. It's yeah, you're like, I've had enough of the thick, gross stuff. So but anyway, so so we said our goodbyes and it's so dumbast you know, you didn't exchange phone numbers with these folks that you know, we were just I was still, you know, we were just kind of I just wanted to get out there, but you didn't know you're a part of a national news I figured this was the end of So so we went and I told Chris and I said, I gotta stop at the bar wise River. I could literally drink a six pack, but I just need to stop in there and wash my hands in the bathroom and I'll get a diet pepsi or something until we get to bawt. So we walked in and then you know, I went I said, hey, no, no one's in there except that there's an older lady. And the younger guy behind the bar said, I just got to use your bathroom and I'll take it. Just how about diet pepsi. You haven't had one of those for ten years? Because okay, So I went in there and I washed about four times, and well they obviously Christen had said that my husband's got a story. You know, he said, hey, we got to hear this. So I went through the story, and you know, this is what's funny, isn't the band woman Venus Mars thing. You know she's she's going just like your hero. God, Thank God for people like you. And you know that guy could have died. And I'm saying, the young guy behind the bar was going, how stupid was this guy? It's like, no, you know, the guy made a bad arab and judgment and blah blah blah blah. So anyway, we went off and had our our Caesar. I told that the guy that helped me. I said, Hey, one thing I'm gonna do is I'm going to call at WP on Monday. This was a Saturday. The story makes me want to get retired so bad. I just like this whole, groovy guy, phenomenal man. So I said, I know, I know who I have to call over there. I said, I'm not going to call the regional office because they have a new division over I can't remember exactly what it's called that the outdoor Recreation and something, but I knew they uh that they oversee the access sits now and and uh. And it turns out the division ministrators somebody used to walk work down the hall from me, uh in the Capitol building, And so I called her and left a message and just uh said, hey, I got something I need to talk to you about it. But the fish Trap fishing access site. Um, if you can give me a call back, you appreciate it, you know, I don't know a half hour later, so she calls me and she goes, hey, Joe, let's go and how's the retirement? Said's great? I love it, you know, doing a lot of fish in the skiing and you know, traveling and hunting and all that stuff and stuff. And I said, hey, congratulations on the new job. You like it. Yeah, she goes, oh, I love It's my dream job. And yad yad yda. So we got done with the small talk. She goes, what's going on fish Trap? And I went, well, uh, so I told her the story and she's, you know, going kind of laughing and going, oh my god. I did not know I was gonna start my monday like this. And uh and so I told her, I said, oh, look, I just want you to know. I told her about the event and I had to pry the lock h and I said, I just want you to realize no, that it wasn't vandalism, that it was you know, this is what happened yeah, and oh. She goes, why apreciate that? I said, oh, by the way, I because I just told her we got him. And I said, by the way, um, I do need you to apologize for the maintenance staff for me when they go there, like, who doesn't want stuff down? The vaul's got a chair? I said. She goes, well, what do you mean? I said, well, because they're going to find two blocks of wood in a lawn chair inside and she just what I said, Well, we had to use these as part of the extraction, and and she goes okay, okay. So I said just let them know. And she goes, okay, well, maybe a game ward might want to call you just to file report. I said it's fine, and one never did. But I said, I also wanted to make sure you had it on records what happened, because you know, I said, certainly in my career, you know, you see various frivolous lawsuits somebody tries to soothe the state for something. I said, I just wanted to know if that happened, you know where you need to come. She goes, okay, great, well I gotta text the next day from her and she goes, does this look familiar and it was that picture and I went in Vice. No, no, this is before anything happened. This is two days after the whole extraction. And I looked at it. I went, where did you get that? And she said, well, the maintenance guys. Why so I can only imagine she called the maintenance people and they were like, wow, oh my god, what And he probably told his wife somehow she found it on Facebook and found this picture and you know, and send it the picture that was snapped. Yeah, the picture that you see on Vice. And I looked at I said, where did you get that? And she said, well, the maintenance guy's wife found it on Facebook. I was like, and I asked it, do you have any idea who posted that? And um, she didn't. But that was the first time I saw the picture, and quite us, I showed Kristen. We had a chuckle. I sent it to my my boys and said, oh, yeah, here's here's a picture. And that's where I thought it was pretty much gonna end. And then um, I Kristen, I'm not on Facebook on my Instagram, but she started seeing all these Facebook posts and then people she knows started reposting it and you know, re sharing it, and pretty soon you're like solely that guy that landed that plan, and I'm just like I started reading things. I'm like, oh jeez, that's you know, it's just things are sort of getting out of you know, because the people are making assumptions of this and that. So uh, I just sort of went, well, it is what it is, and we'll just not worry about. And then somebody sent me that I think it was the Cowboy Daily or whatever, it was Cowboy State Daily. And then Karn sent me the Vice article and I was like, oh, yeah, well no, I told her. I said, it's yeah, it's on something called Vice. It's you know, I assume it's some little sort of online rag. She goes, well, no, actually, there it's a big it's a big online news organization. She and then what clarified it for me was she does, like HBO Max or you know some of the streaming smart TVs, you'll see an app called Vice, and yeah, I've never paid attention to it. Just well, that's that's it. I went, oh, okay. So then I went in and read the article. I'm like, well, they did some they did some work. They didn't did someone else's They actually tracked down finally got to f w P and you know that's where they found out when somebody you know, but the hand found you. Well they did because I called them. They just didn't share my name, which which you know, I guess I appreciate it. But long story short, I just you know, we're coming back from a long road trip. And Chris was like, oh my god, that somebody's a son of somebody of a friend of hers reposted it, and so she had to text him and say, you know that's Joe in the picture. He's like, what the hell and she's yeah, A long story, blah blah blah blah. And I was just sort of trying to let this go. And and then it was about maybe a week or two later that my son sent me a text and link to the podcast said, hey, Steve and Rella just talked about the ship house extraction on his podcast. I went, what And then then now here we are, man, then because of my buddy Bruce getting ahold of her in and yeah, and now you know the whole story. And I don't know, I mean, I just kind of blabbed about the story. But if you have questions or and you asked some but I just was trying to let this thing just sort of fade away into the sunset. Yeah, but it's it's just it's such an interesting um scenario and there's some and uh and I appreciate your efforts on his behalf. Yeah, well I sure he probably appreciates it more and you um. And I also appreciate that you're you don't you're not going out of your way to uh to reveal his identity. And I respect his desire for a nononymity. Um. But are you guys in touch? No? No, no, no. Two ships in the night. It was a one night stand. We went we went camping just this last week and Joe and Christian Dorothy and I and another couple. We were over in Lincoln and let's get around. Yeah. Yeah, we just went over the camp and there's a vault toilet there. There's a little campground and so I I go walking into the vault toilet and I thought, hey, Joe, come here and show me how this how this thing works. I mean, because I didn't know you could take the pedestal off. Yeah, the sick and so he goes, he goes, well, this is a four service one. He says, I'm not sure it's the same thing he says, but he walks in. Joe walks in and just kind of bear hugs and pedestal puffs right off, so you don't even need to no, it just it just slides off. And I looked at that, and he said, Dorothy, go get my camp chair. I said, I looked at that, and I and so two pieces of Joe looks Joe, Joe standing there, I'm standing there, a little standing there, and we both look kind of down this cement oval hole, which, like Joe said, about two ft by three ft give or taken, and we both just kind of glanced in there. It's like peering into a volcano. And we both just kind of stood back and went, oh God. Then then the whole campfire conversation at night was what would it take for you to go down into a vault toilet? Yeah, that's my question? Can I do it for your fan? And I'm thinking to myself, Okay, so a smartphone is a high end a thousand dollars. If somebody said I'll give you a thousand dollars to crawled down in there, I'd be like, Nope. But I think that there's there's issues of um, it's really inconvenient to lose your phone. I dropped mind this winter, not down a vault toilet, but I dropped mind down an ice fish and hole. And you know it's like, you're not the thing occurs you isn't well there goes a thousand bucks. What occurs to you as like oh yeah, like all the things that has lost the inconvenience, they can't transfer it now. I can't call my wife now, do you. I mean like it's it's not it's not money. It's just like, oh really, so I feel that I would. Honestly, there's plenty of people that and I've had I raised three kids. You get to where your relationship to excrement having babies just changes a lot. Manly. It's not you know, general general public. Yeah, no, it's it's very different. Don't mean I don't mean to draw like a total parallel between what's in that hole and raising kids, just saying, you know, just that that everything kind of changes over time. And if I had dropped rather than going down ice fishing hole, um, if I had dropped it in the vault to that, I don't know that I I would get in there and when pressed. I'm pretty crafty about stuff like that. I feel like I would have fashioned up. Um. I would have gotten some para cord and a couple of willow limbs and fashioned up with tongue or make like a little fishnet thing, big salad tongue fishing net. I don't know, but I wouldn't have been like that, goes my phone. Yeah, yeah, I mean I would have been in there figuring it out. I'd have had Yanni hang ankles down in there. I think I would have been hanging. I was like, I can't, you're slipping. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, so you know, I did you know I could do that with her, you know, because she's tiny. Drop down in there. You guys could have a little service. Yeah, yeah, contract ourselves out to you know, different government agencies stop for specialty cocktails. We could use that for a retirement. Many start started saving up money for the thirty third anniversary. That's that's right, well on behalf of Americans on behalf of Montana's thanks for fishing that guy out of the toilet. Yeah, you're welcome. And I hope the guy never does that. I can and I'm pretty sure he won't. But if he does, I can't guarantee I'll be there, but to step up with no derision, no condescension, and step up and help man out of the toilet. That's American elbow grease. Yeah, yeah, thanks for coming to tell the story. That's good, Gunny. Final thoughts on that one, Ni, No, I bet he's got one of those fancy lanyards now on his phone hanging around his neck, or like those old chain drive wall let's just get one to hold your phone on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the belt. I appreciate. I appreciate you guys coming in. I hope you enjoy your retirement. How Bruce, how long you and Dorothy you guys been married? How long we've been married? Twenty five years? Years? All right? Yeah? I love it, yep, yep, and I've been still get along we do. We do as long as I listen to everything she tells me. That's good. You know what, I got one last favorite? Hit us with your best piece of marriage vice best each couple, I would say for Dorothy and I what works the best is, uh, we allow each other to do the things that interest each other, so we allow each other to be individuals. I mean, you participate in or you let them give them room to go do what they want to do, exactly both, to be honest with you, Okay, Dorothy hit it was he does a lot of fishing and a lot of hunting that doesn't include me. And I have some of the things I like to do that I don't include him. But we also do a lot of things together as well. So what's your what's your number one marriage advice? Allowing each other space? Oh you guys have you guys kind of have the same philosophy. Absolutely, Yeah, Okay, Joe, well he took my thunder. Yeah. Really, it's just like a really important component of a long marriage. Well, yeah, I think it's important to have time away, um, you know, and go do the things you're interested in. And you know, I can I do what we call guy trips, you know, hunting, fishing, you know whatever, and she does girl trips. You know, it takes off and goes somewhere and might be a weekend, might be a week or whatever however long. But I you know, the old absence makes the heart grow fonder yonder. So it's you know, I as soon as you said that, I went, yeah, it's this and uh, I just think it's really really important, you know, to do that. Christ and hits with your marriage. Boys, Yeah, I would say, yeah, so my girls trips that I do are very important to me, and so are his guide trips. And then we do stuff together just the two of us, and then we have a group you know of couples that we do things with that is also really fun. And then our kids. So I I was brought up like that. My parents worked there. They were married sixty some years, so they kind of did the same thing. So I had that to go off of. So hopefully we have to emboy, So hopefully they you know, I think they see how we interact and everything, and I think it just flows down, right, It just everything flows down to your kids and how they watch and everything like that. So enjoy your time together. Yeah, go find time to do your own thing, pursue your own interests, which I'm sure you guys will do, right, Yeah, a little bit, I'm kind of thinking I'm kind of thinking that. Yeah, yes, thanks so much for coming on. I think this is the final definitive word unless the individual emerges, but at this point we got the full story. Yeah. Yeah, so well, thanks for thanks for having us, and thanks for having us. I'm glad to be, glad to finally share the story. At least put it off your chest. You get it off my chest. Put it behind you. Thanks, Thanks guys,