00:00:08 Speaker 1: This is an Eater podcast coming in you shirtless, severely folk bitten and in my case, underwear listening. Don't to eat the podcast. You can't predict anything. Is everybody doing tonight? Good? Right? Who's um? I just want to ask now we're gonna revisit this later, but is there we have a birthday tonight? That many people? I'm up top two just like if you have a birthday, just say, like, just do one noise? Really we need we need five of you. But it sounds like there's tons more. Um, Okay, let's do some Let's do some introductions first, let me know, and then when we get started, we're talking about UM. I have a lot of anecdotes I want to share and I talked about these last night, but we don't record it so I could talk about him again. Is a lot of anecdotes about you people drinking too much? Um? But but but first, uh, well, first introductions the hospital US from Meat Eater. My name is Jesse Griffiths. Talk her, talk up your talk up your deal. Talk about your restaurants. Man, I have a couple of restaurants in Austin. UM Doe and I Dee Tacaria Jari for Austin or Army. UH also run a business called New School of Traditional Cookery where we incorporate the kind of culinary aspect into hunting and fishing, offer three day trips, custom trips, stuff like that. Also wrote a cookbook called a Field, UH Wild Game and Fish Cookbook. All Right, Hi guys, I am Danielle. I I Wild and Hole. So I am the girl who cuts up hearts and tells you how to cook it. Here, everybody, my name is Carl Malcolm. I'm the regional wildlife ecologist for the Forest Service based out Albuquerque, New Mexico. And uh, my whole career is rooted in the fact that I love to hunt and fish. That's what motivated me to be I'm a wildlife scientist. And this is this is Carl's This is Carl's eight eighth appearance on the on the show. Yeah, it's an honor, man, I appreciate it. And Carl pointed out that not only has Johnny Casping on this stage, but also Groucho Marks. We're walking in the footsteps of legends. In the footsteps of legends, So I was gonna talk about but I decided not to experience talked about it a bunch is uh the how in Houston a woman when into uh this just happened. A woman goes into Samoca joint. You guys know this story in an abandoned house and there's a tiger hanging out in there in a cage. I was like, I would say, it's like the most Texas thing I've ever heard, And but I got so so like, we're this guy worked with Brodie were we were rounding up things to like just some local flavor and Brody stumbles into this. It's a little but is that what they mean by high fence? That's it. It's all that Texas high fence they're always talking about. So uh, Brody with Brody rounds up this like it's like a roundup of game Warden activities from around the state. And uh so game Warden and Van zandt County two game Wardens and Van Zant Are you from Van Zand County? If if I hit on something, name of the people, if if you people are in these stories, please come to the stage. So so like you get a picture of game Warden's right there out trying to catch poachers and stuff. These game wards and van ZANDT County are going down the road and they come across the vehicle stop in the middle of the road. So they question the people and there's a p there's a person who's too drunk to explain where they live, which is making it hard for their designated driver to get them home. The designated driver turns out has been drinking, so the game the game warden's arrested designated driver and the dude who can't figure out where he lives somehow has it in him to call another body to come pick him up. That body shows up and he too is arrested for drinking and driving. And so moving down. Does I want I keep messing this up? The Z one? How do you say it? Z County? Yeah? You guys from there? So here here. A game warden responds to a tip about an illegal gill net, and the Rio grande Um goes down there on the Texas side of the river and starts pulling out some monolfilament gill net which has been set illegally, and by the time he's done, he has hauled in four thousand defeat of gil Nett. Near Abilene, a game warden sees people shooting from a truck stops him to ask him what's going on, and they explain that they're multitasking because one of the things they're doing is they're drinking. One of the things they're doing is the woman her and her boyfriend are drinking and they're teaching her son how to drive, and they're hunting hawks a in Bear County, which I made the mistake last that I called it Bexter County, which didn't go over well. Bear County game wardens find a guy on social media bragging up about how he's been doing a lot of hunting and fishing in the San Antonio power Plant property, which is closed to set activities, and they want to find the guy, so they review his social media post and eventually figure out who he is and learn that he's a UM. He's one any probation, so they can't find him, so they just go down and wait for him when you need to show up for his probation court hearing, and then arrest him. Another Texas news story, uh that's interesting is red wolves. So red World, I'm trusting you to know a little about this. Carl red wolves have been declared extinct in the wild. In the wild and they've tried captive breeding. They have on an island off of North Carolina, they have tried some. Yeah, but there's no red wolves alive in the wild. Yeah. And they were just surprised to learned that on Galveston Island, the coyotes there carry red wolf genetics. Yeah, and quite a bit of it. Quite a bit, yes, Like to the point where, based on the most recent genetic analyzes, they have more similarity to the red wolves than they do to a pure blooded coyote. Yeah. So the kind of a middle ground, which raises some interesting questions about what defines a species. Really, what do you think is it? Now contextans start worrying about how they have wolves. There's that premature. Oh, there's probably plenty of that chatter already. Learn thing again at the second time I talked about this, but you guys have this is this is the one. It's hard for me to problems you know, the animal. I'm gonna say the nil guy, Okay, right now, you also have a problem in Texas with um cattle the cattle fever tick. Not the tick that makes you that you can't eat meat, but like a tick that spreads a disease cattle fever and they can eradicate and cattle or can control and cattle. But now the nil guy carry the tick. So they are installing motion activated spray machines that are like trail cams, but they blast nil guy with a solution containing nematodes that killed the ticks. Which would be some unnerving ship that happen to you, right to be like walking though it was also you would it would be I would be distressed for a minute. Well, you know when they zapp them, you know how they zapp them, and I haven't it. So the trick is, uh, nil guy are very wide ranging species, like compared to a white tail deer, they cover a ton more ground, but they congregate at shared latrines. So they're installing these things at the shared latrines where all the nil guy will get together and do their business. So it's like even more unnerving. Yeah, you show up to do your business and then end up getting sprayed? Is that really right? Now? Now we have two genuine Texans, have you guy's eating hunting and eating I'm hunting, no guy? Uh, we did. We've actually done a lot of stuff. I was just down in the king A couple of weeks ago with had a bunch of clients. I was cooking for clients that we're hunting no Guy. And yeah, it's true. You'll see an eight foot circle of no Guy ship in a road. Do they like to mound it up? It's mostly flat. I'd say it's like a hill or a dale of ship, you know, because you know, lama's like if you if my brother keeps his lama's out in a flat like if you keep on a flat pasture, lamas like to any kind of little rise to get on. And they'll ship in the same spot and build a little looking like a little pictures mound that's like becomes substantial and then they'll perch up on there just to get a better look. But but the meat, the Neil Guy meat is good. It's fantastic. Even the bigger bowls. I mean they get huge, I mean six seven d pounds plus not unheard of, and in my experience, even even in the big bowls are really good to eat. What would you compare it to, um Uh, it's maybe access deer like, very mild, maybe less has like less of an iron flavor than white tail, A little little bit beefy. It's really, I mean very lean, but very very good good stuff. We wanted to touch real quick on the Frisco coyote epidemic. Everybody lives in Frisco. Yah Yanni's a subject matter expert on the Frisco kyo epidemic. Break it down. Um, it sounds like every all of you must have been bit by a coyote in the last six months from what I read, Um, what else I know about him? They're chewing on small dogs, cats a lot that there was I think even one news uh source had come up with their own app to report kylote sidings and at the time there was over three hundred kylotes sidings right around Frisco and people were genuinely worried. Yeah, because like five people right got nipped or seven seven people got bit. Do you guys live in Frisco? Oh have you guys been bit? No? Just so everybody's doing it? Are you cool on that subject? Like that's that's kind of the extent of it. Yeah, you know, It's just didn't surprise me really when I read it. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Um, we have you get something to add you're not cooking kyots? Yeah, I'm good. I wanna get I wanna give a quick shout out other podcast guests. Bracey V. Hill the second is here with his friend West Keys West Run Wild Game. Am I saying this right? West Wild Wild Game for West Dallas. They put together two thousand pounds of venison for protein poor neighbors. Uh, processors. There's there's a group. There's a group called Hunters for Hungry, So people deer hunters are bringing deer down to processors. Hunters for Hungary. We're paying for all the processing fees. And then they also have a group brother Bill's help in hand and they've been teaching. Uh, they've taking some young kids out and doing their first hunting trips. And he's here in the crowd tonight. So I wanted to mention that, um, he mentions. He mentions that we need to have more dug during and I think that the world needs more dug during. Uh quick question. Yeah, we were with him the are night. Okay. One first, I gotta bring up who there's some guy here Joel with the wife who has the coolest name in the world named Timber. You guys here, Okay. Wedding Advice wants wedding advice what he wants us to explain, Timber, I don't know if I'm doing this. Joel wants us to explain that that, uh, I'm just gonna come at it that you need to make sure that he's allowed to go hunting all the time. He wanted us. I was I was supposed to frame that up as some kind of marriage be sly and frame it up with some kind of marriage advice. But I that's just what he's getting in. So I just I'm just gonna cut the angle for it because it sounds like maybe he's not getting to go enough, right or he feels that way right. No, No, because now you're gonna make it that he's not gonna have a good night. He No, this dude says, he says, I go all the time. I think that he wants to just make sure that that continues into the future. Precedent like precedent setting, which is that's a big that's my marriage advice. My marriage advice starts before you get married. If I was Timber, I would even push him and because there's just like yet to be the guy that actually hunts three d sixty five days a year. So I would say when it's been about eight days or nine days in a row. If he actually hunts that much, then when he's like, so I'm gonna sleep in tomorrow morning, I've had that along going out at the fore and be like, dude, get out of bed and bring home to baking bro Like no no rest for the guy that wants to hunt all the time, right, like get it and just kind of see where that levels out. He's uh, he's getting married in May, so good luck to him. Now, Uh, digging in, We're gonna focus pretty heavy and not like totally heavy, but pretty heavy on wild game to nights. We have so many good cooks up front here, we got some all the questions. We're gonna stray a little bit. We're gonna touch on cannibalism. Um, I wanna talk. I got I gotta, I gotta a question about, uh, whether deer ever lose their ability to get it up, which is for Carl. But first, no, not like that, man. I don't mean like, I don't mean you're gonna know because you know subject matter. I mean like you know because it's like an animal question that I was gonna steer your direction. But first I want to get into this one. This is a question that comes in that came in. It's that this is this is a panel opportunity. What have you eaten that you will never eat again? And how was it that you cooked it? I can start or I can go later, it doesn't matter to me. You got one, I got I got one? Um, And staying on brand, I'm a big fan of hogs. I ate a hog once that have been snared. And that thing been in the snare for at least two hours by the time we got up to her, So I mean enough that when I walked up, she just lost all the you know, ability to fight, just got really sad in here. She she had just given up. But that meat was absolutely inedible. So I hung up the hog snares after that. I have some of those, and I look at him all the time. I've never messled him. I mean, for eradication would be good, but for for park chops not good. What do you got? Yes, I don't know if anything that really fits that bill, um, because I want to try it again, and this might be a good segue for you, um, but mergans are a hooded one. The one time, yeah, the one time we tried it. It just we we stunk out the apartment and just vowed to never do it again. But with the skin on it, I can't I can't remember. I doubt it. I bet we just took the breasts out, but you don't mind golden eye. No. I just remember this was a long time ago. It's probably close to two decades ago, and I remember it being pretty pretty fishy fish the thing I made. It's kind of like what I made is like it's intertwined with the how you cooked it. But I I and I wrote about this my first book, and I was remember just how kind of off putting it was. Was kidney pudding with Elk kidney, but it was from old Elk and the fact that like when you're you're you're eating it and it really, honestly it's like eating like solidified piss me. And it was just like such a letdown. You know, you're an okay, what's that? You're an okke? It was like a you're an o cake. It's like sophy things. Yeah, it'd be like if you cook that. I've not even one, but it was, yeah, it was like you know, and you cook it and it kind of rises that has like a soux fleysh kind of thing. But man, it was not a good dish kidney pudding. You ever got burned on a dish? Yeah, yeah, Um, this is actually really embarrassing. But in my early days of cooking wild game, actually probably my first experience ever processing butchering a deer. It was it was a gift given to us by a friend who had a manager manager's ranch and he quartered a deer. And I was like, we're going to process this whole thing ourselves. And what should have taken like hours was like days because I thought all I knew was like get all the silver skin off. So I'm like breaking down the shanks like I'm going crazy. So like days, this meat has been in the cool or and I don't know that you should drain the water out and keep fresh ice in. So it's like nicely marinating in this cooler for way too long. Yeah. And so I have all the bones left, and I'm like, you know, I'm gonna make a stock. I'm just this. I was just like hot shot in the kitchen at this point in time. So I start making the stock. I roast, I wake up early, roast the bones like it's just I got this nice pot going, and I realized it smells really bad. I'm thinking to myself, well, it's just gamey, right, that's just like venison. I'd never really worked with venison before. Like it just gave me it'll get better, just keep cooking it. Like it's all on the stove for hours. And then Travis, that's my husband, Travis comes home and he busts the door open and he yells at me like, why are you making a European mountain the house? Like do that outside? Like yeah, And I was like, okay, this is not right. This is so I threw it out so I didn't try it. But the worst thing, so yeah, so I didn't even taste it. Tried it was like it was like death in the house. It was so so bad. Um. But the worst thing I actually ate was a tons of swan that had been in a zip block back or not even like a zip block. Freeze is just like a little baggy in the back of someone's freezer for a couple of years. I had like a nice freezer burn, like it's a ton of swan, wasn't you know bad enough? It was laying around so we so we chats went on a hunt with a buddy and the Pothole region. This was up in North Dakota, not not Texas, up in the Pothole region and they were they were diver dock hunting and they see some swans come by and so yell, who ha hoo ha. They turned around. So he gets his swan and I actually wanted it mounted, and I didn't, but I wanted to eat it. So his friends like, oh, I have some in the freezer. You can mount that and I'll give you give you this one. So I'm like, oh, that's so sweet, thank you, thank you so much. Yeah. Good, it was, Yeah, it was. It was terrible. You got carl something in China. I ate some bad stuff in China, for sure. But the yeah, the thousand in your egg? No boy, no? Um oh did you have you eaten that? Deal? The embryonic you know what I'm talking about? You ever eat those? They let a duck egg blue? Yeah, I've eaten that, my god man. That fits into the category. But the thing that came to mind first of all is stuff that I now love eating, but at the time had no idea how to handle it. And so I've been thinking Lee, you know, like anybody out there, grab a copy of the new UH Fish and Game Cookbook where it is so So the reason that that's cool is I think about being like a thirteen year old um squirrel hunter who loved hunting squirrels and didn't know what the heck to do with them really, um, and how it would it would just be a different ball game today to have the videos, the cookbooks and have all that at your disposal as a new hunter. But to answer your question, when I was learning how to hunt, we'd do these like Daniel Boone Davy Crockett adventures where we'd go camping in the woods behind our house and we'd catch trout, we'd pick mushrooms, we'd hunt squirrels and grouse and pretty much whatever hunting success we had, we'd build a fire skin out whatever critter it was, and just like hold it in the fire and so you'd get this like black crisp ext and bite in and it would be like cool to the touch on your teeth and you'd be like pulling meat off, like I must really like hunting. So I'm done with that, Like I'm doing all kinds of you know, like squirrel now is the bomb. But it's because I've learned how to do it, and you know that that's one of the things about having these resources at your fingertips now like we were we were jumping on YouTube or jumping on your smartphone, is like, here's the dead squirrel. I'm gonna build a fire and hold it in there and it's gonna be awful. That's like, like like a long time ago, that was wild. Game cooking was so weird because the obten think like the the impact of phones you don't even really think about is that you used to if you're going to meet your friends, you guys have all had to pick a bar, and no one could leave the bar to go to a different bar because you wouldn't be able to find each other. Right you had, like pre phones, everything was different, man, it was hard to find people. You're starting to sound like an old man. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, Like, if you remember, it was like you it was very difficult to like locate your bodies. You could lose track of your bodies without phones. But also you couldn't look up how to cook stuff. So we would just know that people ate something like we knew. I remember the first time we tried to cook a deer tongue, and uh, we just knew that it was a thing one could do, but we didn't have access to even the idea that the skin is supposed to come off. So we boil those suns, bitches, and try to chew on them, and boil them and try to chew on them because and now you just would very quickly just realize, you know, but we were just in like trying to figure out how to cook beaver tails. When you have it's just a thing. You know, it happens, but you don't know how to do it, and there's no you can't convey the information unless you stumbled across some weird old cookbooks somewhere. You just had no way of knowing. Now everybody knows everything. Now when people don't know how to do something that kind of looked down on them a little bit, it's like, just look it up, man um. A dish guy asked about Oh no, the first time I get to this car, I got two works. We're gonna use you up right now. Okay, two questions, Which one do you want first? The grizzly bear one or the the penile erectile dysfunction in dear one. Okay, a guy wants to know because here's here's where this is coming from. Here's what this is coming from. There's a guy, I can't remember what stayed he's in. There's a guy and he hunts a property and there's a really old deer and the landoors like, don't mess with that, dear ever. But he's wondered, is it ever? Because he thinks he wants this old deer that's got big alwers to breed and make more dear And he's wondering, is like, do dear get the hit the autumn of their life? Right? Like dudes? Who there's a long period of a dude's life when he's not breeding anything, even if he wanted to. So, dude, does that? Is that known? Like does a dear age out or do they stay viable till the bitter end? They do not age out? They and nor do the females for that matter. And if you think about so, there's this there's this myth right of like the old dry old dry dough and there there have been numerous research papers. Um A dear biologist by the name of Glenn Delgads did a great study up in Minnesota where he was looking at fecundity, the ability and and UH basically rates of pregnancy and number of offspring across different age classes of females, and it just keeps ticking up. Like older doughs tend to be more fertile than younger doughs. But fertility rates are very high in females, and given the complexity of what the female reproductive system has to do compared to the male reproductive system, there's a lot more um that you know can go wrong essentially in terms of having um those years of fertility. That's why you know a woman has a relatively narrow period of fertility compared to a man um But in dear, if you think about the fact that they have this narrow breeding season, and you think about the fact that you know most of these bucks are dying um from sources of mortality other than aging out, the likelihood of any individual deer getting to the point where they're not performing reproductively, it's just not going to happen. The exception would be if a deer experiences some kind of an injury like people have probably heard of the term like cactus bucks. Bucks that will get some damage that they'll injure their testicles. Those sorts of things you better explaining to cactus book. So cactus buck would be um a deer that essentially keeps growing layers of velvet that are never shed and the growth, like the antler cycle, UM is controlled by sex hormones testosterone. The seasonality of UM of breeding is what is linked to antler growth. So post breeding season, when the testos strong levels start to drop, that's when the antlers would fall off. But in a in a deer that has experienced an injury to its testicles UM or perhaps has undistended testicles, uh, they'll just keep growing layers of velvet potentially on their antlers and get these really funky antler configurations and sometimes just carry velvet antlers for a long time. But there is an example. I have to know what you just said that makes sense. There is an example, thanks man. There is an example of erectile dysfunction in the wildlife Kingdom though that I think would be of interest to people. So polychlorinated bi phenals PCBs are precipitating out of the atmosphere near the poles, and this is having a disproportionate effect on animals that are at the top of the food chain and as you go north, we're talking polar bears here, and there was a research paper published recently about the fact that these e cbs have the potential telling you is not in your water bottle. Well, there's a few things they're telling you are not in the bottle. But yeah, there there are estrogenic substances and some plastics that they're they're really worried about with when it comes to drinking water. But PCBs are a byproduct of um manufacturing processes. So the problem is they can weaken skeletal tissue bones, including in polar bears, like they're detecting weakening of polar bear bones, and polar bears are one of the species that have a very unique bone vaculum, the vaculum, so there is concerned that PCBs have the potential to weaken the penis bones of polar bears to the point that polar bear males could be predisposed to breaking their penile bones, thereby experiencing high rates of what would effectively be erectile dysfunction and further compromising their their state, which is you know, being driven by climate change. A host of other factors. But in the world of e d in the animal kingdom, that's the best I can do for you. That's good though, that's good. I want to give an excellent answer. I can't decide if we should give no. I'm gonna ask you that on one I got my my other wildlife question when I can't I have a good sense of what it is, but I can't figure out so we all know. Like when you look at European contact, we had, you know, mountain lions coast to coast, top to bottom. We had wolves coast to coast, top to bottom. Why was it that the grizzly bear never colonized the Eastern US? What kept the grizzly bear stuck at around the big bend of the Missouri River. You want a real short answer, short the short The short answer is habitat open country. Open country is the grizzlies preferred habitat. And if you'll allow just a couple additional details, if you go back in the evolutionary tree, you have a common ancestor about a million years ago that was shared by black bears and brown bears. And at that point in time you had the differentiation where due in part to the habitat provided by the glaciers receding. You had all this open country, and you had some of the bears specialized in hunting and living in that open country, and some of the bears specialized in occupying the forested habitats. And that difference in their habitat preference has driven so much about the morphology, the behavior, the level of AGGRESSI shan, the reproduction, everything about the life histories of brown bears versus black bears is driven by black bears being specialized to occupy densely forested habitats. Yeah, Like the quick example would be the short hooked claws that allow a black bear to climb a tree, and the grizzlies long claws, which are great for digging but make him incapable of climbing a tree. But there's so many more cool details than that the more you start to think about it, and and furthermore, that specialization for open country and and just being able to hunt the wide open and be very protective and territorial over your offspring um and being just like a bad mofo kind of bear extended even further when the grizzly differentiated into the polar bear later on in its evolution. So if you think about the extreme example of that open country, untreated environment, the polar bears like the extreme version of that, and that's a relatively recent split in the phylogenetic tree. But everything about reproduction, Like American black bears, their offsprings stay with them for the first year and a half. Why is that, Well, a year and a half old American black bear can flee up a tree if it encounters danger, in contrast to a grizzly bear, where the offspring stay with the mother for two and a half years, And that's thought to be in large part because they remain so dependent on their mother for protection that if they were to split at a year and a half, they end up getting smoked by another bear. They can't get away. They can't get away, So yeah, they're you know, there are places obviously we could we could come up with a list of all the places where brown bears and black bears coexist, where they overlap, where you've got some forested habitat, but that's always going to be a place where you've got forested conditions for the black bear and proximity to open country for the brown bear, so the brown bear is an open, open country species compared to the black bear. Good. Uh, I want to move on to um we talked on this now. Now want to move on to cannibalism real quick. A guy rolled in and he was talking about his body. He's talking about a guy, so does a guy saying that another guy is going to get LiPo suction, and he's wondering, can you use the fat for anything? And you remember that that in fight Yeah, I was gonna talk in fight club like. Part of the plot is that they're using human fat to make soap. And a dude, a dude once sent me. I don't know if you guys done this. A dude sent me fat that he's been making with black bear soap. Sorry, sent me soap made out of black bear fat. It's that really about cannibalism. But have you guys messed with this at all? Like making your own any kind of soaps out of fat? Bear fat, dear fat. I've never made it, but we actually have to restaurant. We sell soap made out of a wild board fat. Really it works pretty good, I mean makes you clean feeling. Come over here, come over and check it out. Um yeah, we havey we talked about this that you've you've the only guy in all that has you kind of cannibalized kind of Yeah, because you've eaten human tattoo. Yeah, it says cannibal Yeah, you've eaten human placenta. And you've drank oh yeah, you've drank mother's milk, drank human milk. Well, a lot of us have drank human milk. You're drinking human No, no, yeah, you're right, you know what. That's a good point, man, But I mean, like that's a really good point. But he drank it as a grown up. And then start you start to think about, yeah, but most of us who have consumed milk, it's from our own mother. But then there are all these examples in a lot of cultures, including you know, in some communities in America where it's commonplace for babies to be passed around to various slack dating moms and whose milk it is of the deal. And then you start thinking about the milk banks, or you have mom a giving mom bee's kid milk and milks just like flowing all over them. Yeah, my wife would give out frozen sacks of milk and friends of hers four babies. Though, what do you guys get for a what do you get for a bar hawks? So it's like seven nine dollars, I think, Yeah, it's pretty nice stuff. Yeah, it's got Jennifer Barries in it. It's it's really nice. Good cover set too. If you're having pigs. Uh, you have an experience with this making this making no. I thought about doing something with the deer fat because it's so waxy. I was like, that could seal a lot of things up. Yeah, we used to steal boots with deer fat. We would take deer fat and man, it makes your boots stink man, but we would Yeah, we would just melt dear fat down and rub it into the rub it into the leather. Nice to have a buddy who this guy named Layton with Glenda and he would um, he would take bear fat and pine pitch and bees wax and make his own triple blend boot stuff. The hard thing to get was the bees. Like he would track the bees to their hive and then take a chainsaw and root out all the you know, root out the bees wax and make the boot stuff. Um, that was kind of his scene. Now, Uh, we want to touch on because We're gonna talk about Davy Crockett for a minute, because can you explain Daniel what you were telling me about what he might be credited with? No, no no, I was I was trying to tell you that it was a lie. Oh the Hush Puppies was a lie. Yeah, yeah, she fooled you. You did fool me because we're gonna play again. We're gonna play a lie. And so that was trying out a lie. Oh is it a good one? But was it true about the bear killing the Daniel? But allegedly he wrote that he killed a hundred and five bears in Tennessee bars hundred and five and seven months, and I think either forty two or forty seven. I think seven was in one month. And yeah, because Boone claimed Daniel Boone and like people lump in Davy Crockett Daniel Boom but different dudes different times, like not the same guy, Daniel boone thousand times cooler than Davy Crockett, which is offensive to Texas. Are you guys listen, are you guys aware are you are you guys aware that it is rumored? Right? Are you guys aware that it's rumored the Crockett I hope his family's not here. The Crockett did not go down in a blaze of glory. I said, it's it's rumored that you're familiar with this. I mean, we've seen the footage. He tossed that torch into the gunpowder room, and he he took out like a hundred of Mexican soldiers and he shot Saint Anna's hat off of his head at a thousand yards. You've seen the photos, and but you are you aware of the myth like the competing the competing legends about Crockett. No, a journal just okay, a disputed a hotly contestant. You're gonna have a fake I was telling your honest this story, and I got the story all wrong, but then we looked up the true version was a hotly contest a journal. You look like you're agitated. I'm just trying to speak for everybody here. Carry on a hotly contested journal, like the veracity of the journal has been called into question. But there's a journal that exists. I think it sits here in Texas. I think it sits in the state capital or something. You guys don't every but you guys already know all this and it was that at the end of the Smoke clears, the smoke clears at the Alamo, and Crockett had surrendered. It was was executed, and he didn't he didn't go. He didn't. You know, I don't have an act. I don't have a dog in the fight here. I'm just saying that this is a contested thing. And dany All got to tell me how Davy Crockett invented the hush puppy. But it was which I thought was true. I can't believe you. I can't believe you. I don't know why I thought it was true. Uh I thought that. But but but like bot so you know, we have like Boone and Crockett like they've been stuck in our heads together, Boone and Crockett. Boone claims to have I wrote it down here. I've quote us a thousand times if I don't want to mess it up. Boone claimed he killed when he was hunting bears for the bacon market and the lard market. He killed one and fifty five in a single fall, and once killed eleven before breakfast. Hunting with hounds, they would get I think like a buck a gallon for bear fat, and they would cure the hams they would make They would tap maples for sugar. They would go to salt licks and boil down the water to make salt, and it would make their own salt sugar. Brian. They would Brian the bear meat and barrels, make their own small house, smoke it, and then haul it on keel boats to be sold. And it's plausible that, like, and this is contemporaneous with Benjamin Franklin, So it's like plausible that Ben Franklin ate some you know, bear meat from some long haired wild man out running around Brian and bear meat. But you imagine hundred and fifty five in a single season. And we were talking about like all these animals that used to exist across continent and we kind of like whittle them down to next to nothing. That's the kind of feller that did some woodland. Yeah, and you think about how cool they are, but you also think, like what is their sense of um? Like like give me the numbers on Crockett, Like what is their sense of enough? That's like timbers dude, he hunts that much. He could probably killpoy seven. Yeah, President is um um Okay, I want to move on there's a guy I think he's here tonight. He is here tonight. His name is Stephen, pH Stephen. He has a great sentence in his letter. My name is Stephen. I'm a big fan and a lazy Texas hunter. He goes He goes on to talk about and this, this is good. I don't know the answer to this, but I'm curious. Everybody's all hot on um hot pots? What do you call insta pots? But he's like, why is it when you make something? If you cook game in an insta pot, it just is never as good as if you slow cooking straight up. I want to think about that while I make sure that this is what he's saying. Is that sound right? Are you here? You're you're buying like I'm doing a good job with your question. Is that yes or no? Good? Okay? Yeah, So he's saying, what's up with insta pots? I've never messed with the insta pot. I do have an electric pressure cooker, but it's not called that. I would I would just get I mean, there's really no substitution for time, especially when you're breaking down silver, you know, getting marrow out of bones. You need that collagen and gelatine conversion. You need that just that texture, that flavor that's going to develop over time, and it's you know, microwave is not going to do it in some fancy instapot contraption is probably not gonna do it either, I think one of the biggest issues. So I started looking into the differences between electric versus manual and the biggest thing with instapot is like obviously convenient. So you kind of like, I've never actually used one, but I've read through recipes and instructions from instapat and you put the meat in there and it's supposed to brown and sear the meat, and then you add your liquids and everything, and there's just it's just steaming. You don't get that like mired reaction of brown, like a true brown in your meat. You're just steaming it. And so you really lose a lot of rich flavors by doing that. And plus, like he was saying, like, you don't have time on your side either. Well I was thinking too, it's like the there's no escape of water, right, right, so there's no reduction happening. Well, because it's pressurized. The theory or I guess science behind it is that it has nowhere to go, so it goes back inside the meat with all that pressure in there. So I mean, I use a manual pressure cooker quite a bit and I like it a lot, but it's it's it is not the same as say brazen in the oven. It's it's not the same result. But that's you're using it for convenience factors. So when you're working and you have a busy schedule and you want some thy meats to be really tender and a really fast time, it's convenient, but you just aren't going to get the same depth of flavor a few were to slowly do it. No oven, we're croc pot for that matter. I mean, I'm a big fan of browning something in a pan transferred to the croc let it go for six eight hours, however long it needs, but you get the same kind of thing. But you just I think you just have to have that time in there. And like you're saying, the browning process so important, go ahead, available everywhere. I feel like I even get two separate results between croc pot and say Dutch oven inside the oven. Would you agree with that as well? And and how fun and why that is you can have more radiant heat from the metal versus just kind of that light am beyond heat from the croc pod. I think, you know, metal is just going to conduct a lot more. I mean, Dutch ovens are amazing too. I'm a big fan. Yeah, I think. And plus it's just cast iron. It's just more authentic and sometimes your brain just wants that. Yeah, right, So might be a little bit of pl evil. I think that cook in a Dutch oven in the ovens the best. What else gives you that? Like that like caramel coating that's a real bitch to clean off. You see that, man, you know you've made something you don't. Might suggestion on the insta pots would be like cooking, like cooking stock in there, like a really good stock that you pour in there, because then you're sort of giving you're taking time earned from somewhere else in applying it. Yeah, I would say, if you're going to use an insta pot or any even a press or a croc pot, brown, it's separately on the pan first always, and then combine everything. Yeah, That's what I'm saying, is like that's not like a real like sans representatives. You close the lid on that and you're steaming it. You're not letting any of that moisture evaporates. You lose, you can need let off. But here's the well, I don't want to get in a big fight. We already got in a fight about Davy Crockett. But the one like I have one that's not that brand and it's a deep ass thing and it's like it's searing in there is not the same. Still not see, still not saying, Okay, I want to move on one thing real quick here. No this is not quick. This is a long one. Um. I'm going out of my own order. You are, Jesse. You've been described as a did you did you describe yourself as an adult? Onset? Late on set? What happened? Well, I fished all my life. I mean I grew up in Denton, which is just north of here. Um here go uh, And yeah, I'd fished like Gray Roberts growing up. I was actually remember when they when they filled that reservoir. Uh. And just came to hunting later on in life. And I worked in restaurants, um, since I was legally old enough to work, And then I learned to butcher first and then went into hunting. After I learned how to butcher animals, Like you hold it back up, so you, um, you started working to restaurants really young six doing what washing dishes and whatnot. Everything I've washed dishes, bartoon and wait tables, working the kitchen and what got you? So what was the what was the butchering? The move into butchering? What looked like I just, you know, eventually became a butcher at a restaurant and we were getting whole animals in This is almost about eighteen years ago, and back when people were just starting to get back into whole animal butchery and this restaurant I was working and started bringing in hogs and lamb and we just learned to cut them. And then after that I was able to kind of make a pretty you know, easy segue into hunting because the back end of it was super familiar to me. Uh, you know, there's a lot of obviously allowed to learn on the front end of it. But what was your what was your awareness? You grew up in Texas, so there's like there's a huge hunting culture in Texas. What was your awareness of hunting and what were your perceptions? You have an opinion about it? You didn't have an opinion about it. I was always curious about it. But my family, you know, I'm only child, My dad didn't huh. But like I said, we fished constantly, and so I just had to get out there and learning myself, and you know, finally did and then it just it took. And then there was something to do in the winter, you know, besides fishing in the warmer months, and so now I find myself constantly occupied. So yeah, and then uh, you so eventually got to where you cook a lot of game and restaurants and in your in your own places. Talk about like the path because I think a lot of people around the country. People here are familiar with it, but a lot of people around the country are really surprised to hear that that, like, actual wild pigs make their way into the restaurant orld. Yeah, it's a complicated process. I mean we get I mean all the time people somebody roll up to the restaurant and knock on the back door and be like, hey, I got a pig out here, and I'm like, no, or you can't, so you don't touch that. Yes, no, totally illegal. I mean it has to be inspected, so all the hogs that we get in are trapped. They're trapped mostly out in the hill country. Uh. And then they're they're brought into a license processor in a in a trailer and then he kills them. They get there, they're inspected before they're killed. They expected after they killed and blue stamped. They got a nice little Texas symbol on them stamped and then brought to us from there. But that pig could have trick and nouls as no one, no one testsed for that, right. Sure, we're so cond a domestic pig. I mean it's highly unlikely, highly unlikely, Yeah, but it is. Uh. I mean there's swine russellosis, sooner rabies to laremia, there's a host of things that they are from hosts of UM. So we we keep our eye on it. Texas Animal Health Commission, you know, kind of updates everyone on cases. And then it's it's pretty rare to see anything come from the Ferrell hawks, although they can be vectors for a lot of different diseases. Yeah. Over the trick nosis cases in this country come from BlackBerry meat. Yeah. I remember in Alaska they had a guy that got it from walrus, which really surprised me. Then you guys also so you do venison too. But that's the weird that's the weird one. I when I wanted to ask you about, I told I was gonna ask about it would be if if you say, if you have a restaurant and sells wild game, right, people have an idea what that is, and when you sell wild pigs, that conforms to wild game. Where here's this animal that no one has any control over, its leads its own destiny, right, just kind of does his own thing, cruises around out the woods. But with when you sell the venison, that's not like that's like a farm animal. It's not necessarily Um, a lot of them will come off really large ranches, have a ton of acreage and they trap them. Bulk of what we sell is nilgai and so those are actually completely wild animals coming from the coast and so they go in there they catch them with netguns, like shooting nets over them, big trap stuff like that. No ship really so a lot of what we serve and that so that can wind up in the restaurant tree. Yeah, well there's there's some inspection processes. Since they're they're not swine, they've followed in a different status and so they aren't just highly regulated. And so there's even a wild game company here that sends an inspector out in the field and they shoot deer, but they mean non native so access psycha uh foul deer things like that. We say psych I mean like you're talking like the sika deer, a little elk like deer. Yeah, the white tail is never on your men. We never served white tail. So these are uh, typically gonna be deer that are you know, proliferated on a on a ranch. So granted it's a high fence, but typically very large and they are trapped. But for the most part, my big thing is diet. So they are living wild. They're not in a pen. They're living wild, and they're eating mostly a wild diet. Now they're probably hitting a corn feeder here and there, but I mean versus any wild deer in the state, it's probably about the same. So I also think that they are invasive um in a way, and it's it's the best thing that we can do while falling under the parameters of the law. And you guys don't So you guys don't sell deer coming out of New Zealand we don't sell I don't mean that matter. We don't sell any product, any fresh products that doesn't I mean has to come from Texas. Oh that's interesting, man, I had no I had no idea that that I was playing on the bust of your balls. Sorry, but I don't even get a chance. Really, So that's what it is. So people, you're getting like a pretty legit wild game experience. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, like the tac area we were using all no guy there, so that is that's a wild animal. All the sausage we do at the brick and mortar um is no guy. And then when we get in a whole carcass, you know, it's you know, we never know what we're gonna get. It's my guy calls me and he's like, hey, we got a couple of red deer in the trap. That's that's that's Uh, this might be proprietary info, but can you tell me what you're cut of fat too? How much fat you cut into making a like a your average sausage. I mean it probably varies here and there. Yeah, what what give me money? I want to provide I want to provide good information for tonight's audience. So what are. So you've got hunting background, you've got chef background, and and and very earlier we're talking about like pre um like back when it's harder to get information than it is now. I feel that there used to be like growing up hunting, we just had like certain ways we cooked everything, and then you later learned that you had like people in the culinary world and chefs and things, and they had their way of doing stuff, but the communication didn't. There wasn't like an exchange of communication like if you were if you were a rural person eating wild game, Um, you probably cooked it like how your grandma cooked it, and they probably cooked it how their grandma cooked it, and you didn't have this big exchange between the colon ary world, you know, the professional culinary world and rural wild game people. And now there's more freedom, right, I think you'd agree with that. There's a lot more just exchange of ideas. Like for instance, you know, last time I had dinner at Carl's, we'll talk about what we had last time I had dinner at your house the last time you were there. We uh, we capitalized on some technology that I had imported from my time in China, where one of my favorite dishes was with the Chinese called huagua, which translates basically in a hot pot, and you'll sit around a table with a big hole in the middle and it will hold a cauldron of boiling broth with all kinds of spices. And it's really social thing because everybody's gathered around with chopsticks and dipping in like all manner of fish and meat and eggs and uh coagulated blood and all manner of mushrooms and aromatics. Yeah, it's like a fond kind of deal um. And so you know, I was gonna have Steve and you honest Fami a visit. And when you're hosting these jokers at your house for dinner, you don't want to be pulling out like a package of Ballpark Frank's and slapping him on the girl. Not that you guys wouldn't like ballpark, but I was like, what could I do that would be creative? So we did this menagerie of wild fishing game from all over New Mexico. We had what we had walleye, yep, we had walleye. We had uh pronghorn heart turkey, wild turkey, giblets um. There was some elk we had, you know, just like whatever was in the freezer, and it was a you know, fun way to spend an ete, like with seasoning packets from China. Yeah, put into the thing. So yeah, Like the point being that there's this exchange. Now. So if you imagine your position where you've you've got a foot in the hunting world and you've got a foot in the like the technical culinary world, what are the what are the things? What are the misconceptions? Is about wild pigs that you find like when you talk like the hunters have their own ideas about like what's edible not edible, what's good not good? Where does that contradict what you found from the professional kitchen the wild pigs specifically sure man or or whatever you want to get into. I think in general, I mean just the collective consciousness has shifted so much and you can speak to this a lot. I mean that's what you do is communicate food to people that are increasingly way more interested in and that part of it, I mean they're starting to recognize that dead animal on the ground, You're you're halfway done with with this job, and then and there's more enjoyment to not you know, just slap some Italian dressing on it anymore and rapid vacant, although you can't. And when I when I was a kid, it was cream and mushroom suit in a crock pot. But I mean, I think people are just just see so much more excitement about it now and more curiosity. People are willing to try different things, and they're they're just they're being more adventurous and they're they're wanting to get more out of of that that part of all that work they're going out there to do. I think with with hogs, we we experienced a lot of myth and people a lot of misconceptions. You know, like I've been told that, you know, hundred twenty pounds is the biggest hog that you can eat, so like a hundred nineteens just but hundred and one gut pile material And that doesn't make any sense to me. I mean I've had I've had a three hundred pound bore that was amazing, um and you're not gonna believe that. But I mean, trust me on this. I mean, and I think that I mean, my my my mission is to just give people to eat more pigs. I mean, they're invasive. They're tearing up land that you know, we you know, there's I mean there's people that don't have enough food out there, like this gentleman that's working so hard to feed them, and it's just like we're shooting piles of pigs and leaving them to lie and feel. And I think that if we can get out there and educate and show people that these pigs can be delicious. I'm not saying they're all stunning. There's some of them that are stinky. And I've experienced that. So there are there like there are stinky pigs. I mean I've I've had like I've shot pigs that I thought we're way better than other pigs. Up shot, what do you think is going on with a bet? What's a bad pig? Well, I mean go back anecdotally to my snare story. Um, you know, stress is a big one. It's like the bigger the pig, the harder is to bring down, the longer it runs, the more to adrenalize, is less lactic acids build up in the muscles. The tougher it can be. The game here it can be. Um, diet is a huge one. We kill pigs in South Texas, which aren't nearly as good as the pigs that we kill and lock harder. Maybe in the you know, East Texas where you have four kinds of oaks, or you know, in places where theres lots of pecans and oaks and diet. Diet forms a big part of that equation. Um. But I think that just convincing people to give them more of a chance, have some different cuts, try the ribs, try more slow cooking on them, you know, like really break them down. Get adventurous, I mean, or just or maybe not an adventurous is the right word. I think a lot of times, you know, when you see a recipe that's like this, you know, nine hours to V project and it's got a lingonberry glaze on it, and you need a shifting out of fresh mint and you need to find galongel to finally mention put on top, you're gonna be like, there's no way. But if I was like, why don't you make a sloppy joe out of it, You're gonna do that and it's gonna be amazing. And I think that's I mean, I think that's the way that you communicate to people is you you put it in a context that you know, they first off, can recognize how to make it in second recognize how it should taste. Is it true? I've heard it so many times like that, people say that a wet, wet sound is like the best why I'll pig to eat because it's you don't know what I'm talking about. I mean, pregnant sotule hasn't had him yet, but that's the one you want to eat? Or is that just like another myth? Or is that true? No? I was in a blind. I was guiding a guy the other day in a blind that we're one of our hunting schools, and two styles walked out. One was pregnant, one was nursing, and I was like, shoots, pregnant one because you think it's better meat. Yeah, the fats staying instead of going out, So you just and fat is what you want in in hogs. It's just it's all about fat. Can you um? What's up with agent hog meat? Is it not not worth it? But we're in a warm climate, so I mean if you have the you know, the walk in cooler that's got a lot of moving air in it, then by all means you can try it. I think that it's risky. Um, it can be done. But I think that in a really cold and dry environment, you're looking at up to about ten days with a hog. But like if you're talking about like aging, like people are dealing with beef, you know, pushing sixty days stuff like that, and people are doing with pork domestic pork as well. Right now, I'm I think that you're you'd be better at choosing a different battle. Um. Yeah, I think let them get through rigor mortis and then cut them at your earliest convenience. So you're like the hog proselytizer. But let me ask you this though, This is the question I always asked people that, Like, so you guys enjoy this great red or not great. You enjoy this resource and you have as much of it as you want, and and the animal becomes like really interwoven into the culture. So like like the pig has become you know, almost like synonymous with taxas hunting culture. But the reason it's like gloves off on pigs, it's because they're non native and problematic. I always always ask pig hunters this. It's like if I gave you a magic wand right, and I said, if you shake this wand it'll be done. The pigs will be gone. So so not that you're not that far you wouldn't shake the one. No, I get in trouble with my friends at parks in wildlife too, But I'm sorry, I can't shake that one. Um, I mean the control Yes, I mean we have them in East Austin now, like in the city limits. Um, there's I mean they're they're a rampant problem. And I have friends that are farmers and they want to shake that one too, and I think that we need to find So you do feel that there are people in Texas who would shake the magic one? Yeah? You a shaker or not shaker, Carl you because you have an obligation to American wildlife, you have to shake it. I would really yep, you gotta find a note door out of here to But you know, I can understand the sentiment behind not wanting to shake it. I mean I I can. I can understand how a species that you have interacted with and it's fed your family and you've spent all this time learning about and you know, breaking them down and cooking them like over time. I can completely understand and appreciate the kind of relationship that people would feel towards that animal. And so I'm not I'm not dismissing that, but from an ecological perspective, I would absolutely shake that one. Really, would you shake it? I'm staying out of it. Would you shake the one? I feel like I'm supposed to say yes, but I probably wouldn't. You probably wouldn't shake them one. You know, we were in in in Chestpeake Bay and the East Shore and there's a fish there, a snakehead. You guys have snakeheads here, like a non native fish, and at first the snakeheads hit the water and everyone's like, oh my god, snakeheads are gonna kill us all as the end of the world. Snakeheads. Now you see dudes with like snakehead decals. It wasn't even that many years snake head decals in their truck window. Where we have this wait, Like I think that humans are so pragmatic where we have this thing. It's like here it is, it's good to eat. You know, when life gives you lemons, right, you make lemonade. And we kind of are like really quick to adopt stuff, the non native stuff. There are like most of the places we hunt turkeys. Turkeys aren't native there, that's right, and we probably wouldn't shake the stick on that, would know. I wouldn't shake the stick on those poor birds. Yeah, but there's a very there's a there's an important differentiation. I want to touch real quick. Uh, we're talking about chapass. Like an episode or two ago, you guys threw the chap ass like what's another word for it, chafing, chafing, but the best swamp Yeah, swamp ass we got, man like it was the number one probably the number no the things that we get written about's heart. It's probably number one people who are number one long term people diagnosing your honest's heart. Um. We had a question not long ago where someone was. It was that a lot. It was in Sacramento. A guy was asking. He was like, man, I want to ask this, but I don't want my wife to know. And he wrote in and he was saying that if you got, say you got a rabbit that after gutting the rabbit, why does one's flatulence smell exactly like the gutted rabbit that got an enormous amount of things. One guy wrote in and he described the phenomenon called deja peu, which is which is like this guy worked in like a for a corner or something, and he was saying that he thinks there are little that that there's like volatile fatty acids, when when you smell something foul, there's volatile fatty acids, and that somehow they get in your nose hairs. This just and he was saying that you get when you smell an offensive smell later it could carry a trace of that, giving one the sense sense of deja peu, which I don't suffer from. But on the chap ass thing too, really interesting pieces of feedback wonders all these products that people have that that solve chap ass. But one guy was saying he was with a guy one time that gut chap ass so bad that he couldn't walk. It was that bad. And he took his sandwich apart and took a piece of bologney out of it inlaid that piece of bologney between the cheeks in order to hike out. Another guy has Another guy writes in that the way to cure it this most interesting concoction he's taken. He's like, oh, bro, I know about this. He likes to mix neo sporn with oragel like the tooth the tooth numbing agent. And he's like, that's how you take care of that problem, which I love. But I want to move on and I just want to touch on that. I want to move on to another subject that this this came in and I already know my answer because I've done this before. But he he, it's a guy. I can't. It goes something like I didn't write down as main details that should have. But there's a like a guy and he's got a girlfriend and they live with a roommate. His girlfriend needs wild game. The roommate won't eat wild game, just like for eats meat won't eat wild game. What are the ethics of just lying and giving them the wild games? And what do you guys think about it? Go for it? Yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah, Yeah, I got nothing against I don't feel like I'm doing him a disservice or lying to him. They're gonna come out of it, you know, something bad is gonna happen. They're gonna have a negative effect, you know, from eating a while game. I tricked him to eat. Yeah, like the guy that did the Yeah, we talked about the guy that was serving kangaroo meeting school kids without telling them. But but that guy lost his job. Yeah, that's a little different than just checking your roommate a little bit. Would you pull a fast one, Carl, I would say it depends, honestly. So I mean, on the one hand, I mean, we've all had roommates, right and if your your roommate is like eating some food that you've provided to some extent, it's like you're lucky that you're getting some food from me, right there. So there's that dynamic um and and I think there's like an important distinction to Yanni's point about whether there's potential for the food to have uh like a negative outcome. So I'm I'm sitting here thinking about like the example of all these people that have been exposed to CWD positive dear meat for example. So I would say, if you're talking about like sharing a a roast from a deer that you know is healthy, that's one thing. If you're sharing some kind of funky like brain dish and you're like, hey, try this out, and then after the fact you're telling them what it is, or if you're sharing meat from an animal that you're not sure like CWD status, I would say, there's kind of some gray area there. But if it comes to just like you're making some food and they want to eat it, but it's contingent upon whether or not it's wild game, I'd be like, have it, tell me if you like it? And I mean and I and I wouldn't I wouldn't lose sleep. Yeah, I think I would. Did you give him house cat meat? Uh? Do you know what I'm saying. That's why it becomes really tricky, because how do you draw? Because well, the reason we're all doing this, I believe is because we're hoping that it results in like the lights getting turned off and they're like, oh my god, that was dear, that was awesome, I please, I'd like to eat some more now, right like that, that's why you're going through that process. So I kind of did this the other day now because you're like, yeah, not the cat, not the cat, Like where is that cat? Anyway? But so I've been I've been accumulating. I've been accumulating undulate tongues for the last few years in my freezer, and I got to the point where I had a moose tongue a deer tongue, a prong horn tongue, all in the bag. I thought these things out. I cook him for eight hours in the slow cooker, and my mom is living with us right now. My mom comes out in the kitchen. I've got these things on the cutting board. She's like, what do you have there? I'm like, don't worry about it. I'm you know, I'm making a dish here, Like, let me make the dish. She's like, are those mushrooms of some kind? I'm like, no, like, let me let me do this. She's like, what is it is that? I say, it's you know, it's food. I'm cooking. Hold back, let me do this. And I end up making tacos still angua with these tongues, and they turned out fantastic, and I serve them to my mom. I serve them to my wife, serving to my daughter. My mom is like, these are the best tacos I've had in years. These are the best. And then a couple hours later, my wife and my mom are standing in the kitchen. My mom's like, what what the hell were those things you were cutting up the other day in the kitchen? Let you know, yesterday in the kitchen and you know, I was acting kind of shifty and my wife's like, what's she talking about? And I said, well, that was what we had for tacos. And then my wife gets real nervous, right, She's like, what do you feed this? So I say those were tongues and my mom's like, oh no, And I'm like, what you said? Those were the best tacos you've had in years. So that's an example where it's like, I know that meat is totally safe. I know there's no good reason. And my mom is very pragmatic and she's the one who's always told me, if you're gonna kill it, eat it. That was like the golden rule. So I'm asking my mom, then, would you rather that I left this tongue in the woods with the gut pile when I brought out all that meat, or would you rather put it to use to make the best tacos you've had in a couple of years. Yeah, you're helping me clarify my perspective on it, my perspective on this because I've done exactly that. I gave my mother in law tongue like cold chilled, cubed, cured tongue in a salad and she later said that ham was so good. Yeah, but here's the deal. It wasn't like I'm I I would totally I don't feel the need to tell people what it is they're eating. But if I know that someone is like, I don't eat X, I don't think it's ethical to trick them into eating what they say they don't want to eat. And I don't know that it's your business to tell them that their reason is writing. I agree with that. That's where I draw the line a little bit, because if someone had like a religious dietary prohibition, I wouldn't then feed them yes and be like nah, huh, yeah, now that's messed up. You know for sure? Have you got any perspective to offer. I've done it before, you've done diver ducks. Yeah. That if it was like a person who eats meat and they're like, oh, I don't eat diver ducks, I would totally screw with that person's gumbo. And I don't even think they knew it was duck. There's like they knew it was something wild, but they're like, oh, well that's wild game, but it's good. I think they thought it was venison and the eating is fine. Everybody's fine. I don't remember if I told them or not. I mean, we carried on with the night. Nobody was like, what was that mean? Nobody? This is somewhat related, and I'll explain where it gets related in a minute here. But there's another thing I've been like, saving up emails some people that are all kind of the same thing where this is gonna not seem related, but trust me, I'm gonna make it related. They all seem like not the same thing. I'm sorry, saving up emails and people asking the same thing would be like if you kill an animal and it's been injured, or oftentimes they'll be like I found an animal with an infection, or it had a broad head in it and was had an injury. Is it safe to eat? Enough work. We even had a guy right in and he later we talked about this and then he wrote back into clarify his point. But he one time hung a deer up some kind of I can't remember what the hell was a raccoon or something nod on the muzzle of the deer, and then he was like, is it safe to eat? So like, where do you personally draw the line at which something that's messed up is not safety. I mean we were told, you know, well, it's uh, shotgun pellets, stuff out of out of hogs. I've seen, you know, rice breasts and ducks. The rice breast is that's trash, you know, it's it's too much. It's a pretty general infection. But I think that that's just all kinds of cysts, like the meats packed of cysts. I mean, I think that like, if it's a pretty generalized, a cute, you know, injury, and you can cut it out, uh, then it's fine. I mean, considering that you also just shot a hundred fifty grains are lead through it. It's got another injury now, and it's there's there's dirt and blood and bone and everything, and you're gonna just happily kind of cut around all that and all that hydrostatic trauma and kind of make that palatable paddle, palatable looking piece of meat. I think that a small injury that doesn't indicate like anything worse. If the animal wasn't acting, you know, like super sick, then I think it's okay, but you might go better. I have discarded entire legs because of injuries and infections at one time had a turkey that musta its whole breast was shot because it had must have pitched into a tree but impaled itself with a stick, and it was just horrible and ditch that. So I'm not like, I'm not just like eating sacks of pus out of stuff, but it is a thing that like comes into people's minds, but I can never think of it. I've never thought of a thing where you would have like an injury would somehow make something inedible and get you sick. When we had the like the bear that gave we had the bear that gave me and Jana's tricking nosis. I had to send some to the c d C for testing, but I still had most to bear meat. And I smoked one of the bear hams, so we got sick off it. And we knew that this thing had eight hundred and sixty eight larva per Graham and my brother I had signed up to bring a dish to pass to my brother's rehearsal dinner for his wedding, and I was like, I'm gonna bring the smoke bear him. And then I'm like, man, you know the smoke bear him I was gonna bring. Turns out and I told him about what was wrong with it, and he said, well, don't tell anybody, and I thought, I was like, I can't not tell him. I have to tell him. He's then if you're gonna tell him, don't bring it, because the minute you tell him that this has all this larva living in it, you're gonna make all the other food suspect. Like, no one's gonna trust anything you say at that point. So in that case, I again was un was incapable of doing like the lie even though I cooked at the hundred sixty degrees. You did the right thing, you think. So I feel in some way like I chickened out. Give me what's going on? Oh, the zombie deer? Do you want to get into the zombie deer? Okay, a quick pole? Quick, let's do a quick pole now that we know. Okay, for a while it came out. For a while, everyone was all hot and bothered about this piece of research. That's some that some researchers in Canada had taken McCaw monkey. That's how you say that word, maccaque, maccaque monkeys. So some researchers in Canada said, oh, we gave some maccaque monkeys c w D infected meat and the monkey's contracted c w D. Turns out that's not true. It was they never they didn't publish it, it wasn't peer reviewed. When the National Institute for Health looked into it, that didn't happen. How you messed that up, I'll never understand. But it wasn't true, but it really got people excited. Another case where someone was doing a fundraiser, I think it was at a firebarn, like a fire department fundraiser. They serve c w accidentally serves c w D infected meat to two people. This is seven years ago. I believe roughly seven years ago. Eight seven of those people have agreed to be monitored. They've been monitoring them since. Nothing yet there's no known case. There's no known case of a human contracting c w D. So the question two things, two points. But there are man let's get this is such a sticky subject. There are people who remain like I imagine most of you, people who remain like I definitely want to know more. I'm not gonna get hysterical, but I want to. I think that we should the scientific Commune. I think we should be investing money to learn more about possible transmission. Then there are people who have already made up their minds. There's no risk whatsoever. If I want to go to my buddy Doug's place, he lives in the c w D area, and I want to get meat from like ten c w D positive deer, and I want to gouge out some of their spinal cord, and I want to take some of their glands, and I want to make burger out of it. And then I'm gonna make patties. And when I meet a total c w D denier, I will cook that burger and I will lay it on his plate. And if that's some of bitch eats that burger, I'll be like, now let's talk. Like if they has its, then I'm like, we're in the same boat, brother, Like that burger makes me nervous. So never mind the burger, and never mind a blend of twenty whatever. If you had it, you get a deer, it comes back c w D positive. Would you eat the deer? Not not eating it? Not eating it? No, No, I'm not gonna eat it. No, I don't know. It's sit in my freezer for a long time. Yeah, that's a good point. No it's not. No, don't eat it. No, that's the answer. The answer is no, don't eat it. It sucks. It sucks. I have to toss that deer. I feel that, like I'll put I'm going middle ground. No, No, there's no way I'll give it. I would not give it to my kids, but I would have a very very difficult time discarding it. Maybe I would just keep it my freezer and look at it. Just serve your modeler in law. Yeah, I like, and here's your dear me not. Oh that's horrible. Yeah, we wouldn't do that, Cindy, we love you. No, I wouldn't do it. It's is scary. There's a couple uh newsy things I wanted to get into, but like a couple of hot button issues, but this is gonna be the one that it terrifies me. I don't worry about I don't worry about the resource impact, meaning I don't worry about I'm not I'm not like keeping up at night about reduced deer numbers from c from c w D. I'm not worried about. It's terrible that that happens. Like here, here's what I'm saying. If somehow, some omnisction all knowing being could come and say c w D cannot and will not be transmitted to humans. I I really, I would never given another thought. I would kind of lose interest in it. Like there are people who are like, well, what's it gonna mean for deer numbers? Like I don't. I just feel like it'll it'll just join the list of all the other damn diseases that sweep through deer herds now and in a wipe them out and then nick come back. But the food that the idea of hunters getting sick from venison is is just upsetting, gut wrenching thought. The coolest thing in the world becoming somehow not cool is a heartbreaker. And I don't know at this point, I don't know that anyone who can really say anymore than that. I would add that it's happened. It's happened. We haven't had the confirmed case of a person contracting CWD from eating and infected deer in thousands of people of eating it, but we have had already the culture around deer being compromised by the existence of that disease. And I you know, I'm speaking about this from the standpoint of a guy who was in grad school in Madison, Wisconsin, shortly after it was discovered in southwest Wisconsin, and watching the way just my own circle of friends over the course of the last ten years, the way that our conversation says have evolved around deer hunting um in that part of the state. Those impacts are already occurring. It's it's changed, you know, if you if you're thinking about where do I want to spend my precious time away from work when I've got a couple of weeks of leave time to spend over the course of the year, and I want to fill my freezer, I want to travel and hunting an area that I know and love and have hunted a lot, but has cw deer tohnt to maybe try to find another spot to hunt, And it makes it real hard to want to go back and hunting an area where you might you know, you've got a coin toss as to whether or not the deer you kill is going to be able to be something you can feed to your family. So if you look at all the culture around the activity, the landownership, it's just a it's a very real, um, very sad state of affairs. And even if we don't have that example of a person getting sick from it, just the risk of that, I think is already compromising the hunting culture. And it frustrates. It's entered your head. Oh, it's entered my head. And and and to see the inaction that has persisted frustrates the hell out of me. Man. I think now exactly half the states States Texas not right, you know, States, we have right, but you do have it now. It's pretty. It's pretty. Uh is a little more than okay, But I mean it's like I feel like it was like twenty four and then two more this year somewhere around there in Texas has something. There's a small quarantine area in Bandera, south of San Antonio, and then in West Texas, sixty six can armed in Texas. You know everyone in here who would eat a c w D positive deer, that's a good one. Say, yep, there's there's five, there's five in here. They would eat your burger. No you got okay? No not no, not my crazy spinal cord burger. But just like my lift note burger. Uh, it's just okay. Like I'm like, I'm honestly curious. So if you would just a nice calm yep, like if you would eat a c W depositive deer. Okay, if you would not, well you're not you're not doing the nice clean yep. Oh I hate it. I don't want to like. I don't man procedure. What's that? What's that mean? I'm not familiar with the parlor mentory procedure. Oh, parliamentary procedure. Oh you know real quick? Did you know that I was reading the guy? Was a guy rolled in saying that um eradicating pigs as part of the E used New World Order domination plan. No, I did not hear that, dude. It was a fast he laid out a very fascinating case. We're gonna move real quick. So now we didn't do how are we gonna pick our person that we vested up? We're gonna play. We're gonna play seeing through the bullshit where someone has to come up and they're gonna be presented with two lies in a single truth. Ryan Key, Helmut one, just grab someone. So we know we like select something early. So we're gonna play. And but first I have a correction to make. We played this that we played this that law ago. We played this not long ago, and I and we accidentally did we accidentally did three lies because we're talking about we're talking about a favor like the deadliest tiger. The deadliest animal ever was the Chompawatt tigress, and it was a tiger who had had messed up teeth. Some people believed that she had been shot by a poacher busted her teeth. The tiger then dedicated itself to killing humans and eating humans. And this this is no joke. It's probably more but attributed this single tigress in killed three hundred and fifty six people, and it was killed by a ice. Ice screwed up and we got a lot of heat for this ice grew it up and said that the guy that killed it, Jim Corbett. I said that he was American, but to do with British, and people were pissed. It was like when I said Sam Houston died at the Alamo. People were worked up. So that's my correction. Corbett was British. Now, if you win, you just get it, not if you win. What's that are contestant? Is here? Jane Nice? Grab a seat. They all spins. He can look right in the eye of the storytellers. Okay, we're gonna tell you things that are uh, there's one true thing hiding within this. You want what you want first, okay. You know are you with youth? Are you with youth hunting seasons? Okay? And you are aware of the fact that now and then a dough, a female white tale will grow antlers. Okay. Tennessee's youth hunting season, a new youth hunting season record was set in Tennessee by an antlered dough. The individual who was holding the record prior to this kill has actually contested the new entry because it's not a buck. Okay. So I have a story that weaves together bears and national forests, and it goes like this. In the nineties, a narcotics officer turned drug runner by the name of Andrew Thornton was traveling over the Chattahoochee National Forest in a small airplane containing forty plastic containers of blow coke, the white stuff he threw, cane he threw, He threw the containers out of the plane, donned his parachute, leaving the plane unattended and en route to the ground. Unfortunately, became tangled in his own parachute plummeting to his death. Agents when they went in to recover the drugs and his body, expecting to find fifteen million dollars worth of cocaine some forty kilos, instead, came upon a very dead black bear. The black bear had died of the single most impressive drug overdose in the history of wildlife ecology. Stuffed to the brim with the white stuff, a knee cropsy revealed the bear had died from a combination of cerebral hemorrhag ng, respiratory failure, hyperthermia, renal failure, heart failure, and a stroke. That bear, that bear is now stuffed and on display at the Kentucky fun Mall North in North Lexington, where he dons the moniker Pablo Escobar. Okay, well told, all right, So are you familiar with the lone startik No? Okay, the lone Star tick in the Lone Star State. So we have to find somebody else, sorry, man. So we have a tick that carries I think it's called an alpha gl carbohydrate, and so when it bites and infects a human goes into the blood stream, we produce a whole bunch of antibodies and basically have an allergic reaction so severe that we can no longer eat red meat, so beef lamb So I'm just explaining what the tickets we're just laying getting him off. Then got this tick. And recently down in South Texas, they stumbled upon a ton of there's several pots that were really scrawning, and they started trying to figure out what was wrong with these coyotes, and they tested him and they contracted this disease from lone star tick because it can't eat meat. Mm hmm. Now you need help from the crowd. I can go to each one of the storytellers and and stand behind him, and the crowd can yell the loudest for who they think is the truth. If you need that help, you quick review. Yeah, okay, you have the story of the new youth season White tailed Deer record. You have the story of Pablo Escobart, and you have the story of that. See that the allergen, the meat allergen that can be caused that can that humans can contract from the lone star tick has afflicted has been proven to be able to afflict kyotes and make them intolerant of meat, which leads to their emaciation and eventual death. And they all live in Frisco. This is hard going help you need help from the crowd. Let me let me real quick, let mean real quick. Now. So what we have is uh some fury HD five thousand binoculars from my friends at Bord tex who we needed. We needed a present, so see him through the bullshit. We needed a present and you get laser range finding binoculars, real expensive, real nice, lifetime warrant, lifetime thing you could if they burn up in a house fire, they'll give you new ones as well as you've got some chunk of plastic ascending. Yeah, Danielle's was asked the crowd. Danielle's story about the veggie Kyles. But by bullsit you mean, by bullsit you mean true or not true. That's a lie. Carl's story about Pablo Escombara, Steve story about the female buckets, now the state youth record and tsee, oh that's hard. I realized leaning towards that one. I really was. You're leaning towards the youth season. That's that's if you want to win. But it's my fellow Texans, and I'm gonna go with the Texan away and I'm gonna go with Pablo Esco. Thanks playing, thank you, thanks man, have a good night, and then thank you all very much. We love everyone of you. You guys are the best. SCO proposed propertspread the contro