00:00:12 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance today. Maybe my favorite guest of all time. Maybe it took about two years to get her on the podcast. The love of my life, the wife of my children, the glue that holds this whole ship together. Sondi Phelps, Welcome to the show. Sondi. 00:00:26 Speaker 2: Hi, I feel like this is a trap. 00:00:28 Speaker 1: No, not a trapit all. I've wanted to get her on here just so we can talk about everything involved in our daily life, from the business to honting, to our kids to our life crazy life. I've tried to get her on here probably twenty plus times, and she figures out a way to schedule a meeting or be busy. So it's nice to finally get her on here. So, yeah, Sondy, we met. You were a junior in high school. I was a senior in high school, I believe, if I remember the story correctly, we got set up by your cousin, who was one of my good friends. I was trying to dodge a date, and you just wanted to go to the dance. If I remember correctly, that's correct. 00:01:09 Speaker 2: My best friend she left our school and ended up going to your school, and we were figuring out how we could hang out together, and just you know, there was no other way than to go with some guy. So I guess you were the lucky one. 00:01:24 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so a little bit about that night. It was November first, the night before opening day Elk season, back when I still rifle elk hunted, and so back in the day, we you'd go out, eat dinner first, go do the whole dance thing, and then our tradition was always to go back into town. But for us, town was thirty minutes. I think we went to Denny's. I think it was the only place open. So we went had dessert at like the Shahala's Denny's, yeah, because. 00:01:47 Speaker 2: It was the first of that Grasshopper milkshake. 00:01:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so we way back when we were about whatever that would have been two thousand, prom went did that. So now it is one o'clock in the morning, and then I've got to bring you back to your house, which is fifteen miles past my house. So I remember, like I lived for opening morning Elk season. But it was my first date ever with you, and I can remember getting into bed at like two fifteen to twenty in the morning, and I'm just like, oh, Dad's gonna kill me. I'm gonna have to be up here in two hours. But we decided you were my good luck charm right off the bat is that next morning, I believe I killed a bowl and my uncle killed a bowl and my cousin killed a bowl all out of the same location. Yeah, it was good luck. And then, if I remember right, did we did I drive back down there that next day? Or did we just? I think it was hunting season. I don't think at that point you weren't. You weren't that big of a deal yet in the relationship. We only went on one date. I think I probably ended up going Elkhunt that day, and then I think a week or two later we ended up officially. However, do you say it going out dating? From then? 00:02:49 Speaker 2: Well, you came over a few times because my dad and uncle. 00:02:52 Speaker 1: Got Oh, yeah I did. I did have come over that opening night to hang out, which which alludes to or as a great segue, like you're the background of hunting in your family. Your family also hunted, So hunting wasn't something new to you. 00:03:07 Speaker 2: No, hunting wasn't anything new to me. It was done a little differently than you guys. I think everybody rifle hunted. I don't know if anybody bow hunted at that point. Well, I guess you didn't bow hunt that at that point either, But yeah, it was more I guess. I guess it was probably the same. It was a family aspect. I didn't hunt at that time, but I did go with my dad. I'd just drive around. So we do a lot of road hunting versus trekking through the woods hunting yep, yep. 00:03:37 Speaker 1: And a little bit about you grew up, in my opinion, like a lot different than us. Your family has thirteen hundred plus or minus acres, and so you guys not only did you guys hunt public land or with the rest of the crew, but you guys also had like your own little honey holes. And you know, your grandpa hunted all the way up until he passed. You know, he would. He had his own little tree stand, he had his own little clearcut, and so there was that like you could always go find, you know, find some ground. But then you also you went and hunted everywhere else. But yeah, I forgot I did. I We killed those bulls that morning, and we actually had one of our best mornings ever. I think my family had killed six legal bulls that morning, and then I did go down to your house at night and I'd remember your That was the other thing that was a big differentiator, because your family was currently in the partying phase as I got there, and my family was so serious that, like you didn't want to. So there was a little difference there that after after my wife's family was successful. 00:04:30 Speaker 2: They would celebrate. They celebrated. 00:04:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they celebrated a little bit more than we did. So, so give us a little background your upbringing. You know, I I was raised on what I would consider like a city block within the big city appel, still way out in the sticks, but we lived more inside the city limits. You grew up on a on a farm, and so it give us a little background into your upbringing. 00:04:53 Speaker 2: I grew up on a farm. It was probably right around one hundred acres with not all our land, but it was land that we used from neighbors also that we would hay and all that stuff. So there was a lot of room to you know, roam around. I think my best friend was about five miles away, and she was really my only my friend that was the closest. That was a girl, So I kind of hung out with the boys a little bit more, just you know, because they were closer. So we do quad riding and I don't know, it was it was just different, but a lot of walking. My parents didn't take us out places a lot because they were working. My dad was a truck driver and my mom owned hair salon, and so it was a lot of walking or riding bikes to get to friend's house and hang out. So I hung out with the people that I was closest to, which was always fun because I don't know, I'd get to school and I'd get to hang out with the people that I didn't get to see, even though I was still close to them. And then as far as hunting, I wasn't big in the hunting. My brother he he did a lot of predator hunting and staying out in the woods and stuff. But for me, it was just it was more the family aspect of being around everybody, getting to go with my dad sometimes. But after the harvest, we'd you know, get together and we'd make kill Bossy and we had family recipes and so it was more of a family aspect than anything else. 00:06:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it raised up a little different, but definitely respected hunting, and so then you know, we I'm gonna get my dates all mixed up. I know our anniversary is coming up here on July eighth, but you started dating on November ninth. I have a leave or officially dated and ended up getting married in two thousand and six. 00:06:50 Speaker 2: Yes, he took his sweet time, Yeah. 00:06:52 Speaker 1: Two thousand. Well, I I was wise for my age. I wanted her to get through school, me to get through school. Didn't want to do anything dumb, make sure she she had her head screwed on right. So she was going to school to be a dentally assistant. I was going to school to be an engineer, and so I finished up in two thousand and one. You finished up in two thousand and three, somewhere in there. So yeah, I took our time and didn't want to have kids too young, but didn't want to have kids too late, and fast forward. Ended up having our first son, Hunter in two thousand and nine, got married in two thousand and six, our daughter Peyton in twenty twelve, early in twenty twelve. So just your atypical you know, quote unquote American family. You know, two kids and a boy and girl. Yeah, and I always joke because I've definitely got a case of ADHD and always been kind of that entrepreneurial spirit, always wanted to be working on something, doing something aside from showing up at my nine to five every day. And so I always kind of joked, as you know, once we had the kid, I had to find something else because I was working on fourilers back in the day, and uh just always kind of messing around out out in the shop. And uh that was two years in between the two kids is when we started thinking around or messing around with with calls. 00:08:13 Speaker 2: Well, you really started in two thousand and nine when we were in the hospital with Hunter. 00:08:18 Speaker 1: That's when I was doing all my research. 00:08:19 Speaker 2: I think, yes, researching, and then you kind of dabbled in the We got a lathe and you started turning a little bit. But I mean we'd send out maybe a call every month, every two months. It wasn't anything, it was it was just a hobby for you. 00:08:33 Speaker 1: We were giving away more calls I think than selling. And I'm and this isn't to paint my wife in a in a bad light. This is to give like the reality of the situation. Financially, we weren't in a good spot to start any business. I can remember remember coming home and you know, coming home from the hospital and being like, oh, we're gonna I'm gonna do this, and we just kind of that was on the heels of kind of I wouldn't say I failed Fouriller repair shop, but just you know, spending a lot more money than we needed to. You were burnt out, yeah, burnt out. And then the reality is, and thank god you trusted me on this one, is that there was there was a high likelihood that I was going to get into it because I'm passionate. And then she was like the voice of reason, like trying to keep me grounded, like, don't spend all of our money that we do have a little bit that we do have. And so I always it's not me talking ill on her. She was just a voice to reason, like you're going to do another thing that you think is going to work. And so I know at first there was there was a little bit of friction with even kind of starting this, which was healthy. 00:09:33 Speaker 2: Well, I think that my first thing was I support you, but I am not supporting in you that you and this this is this is ridiculous. Just because we had a new baby, at home and the other business just kind of it didn't really fail, it just it stopped. And it was a lot of you know what, we haven't grown up on a lot of being on the internet and talking to people and networking, and there was not a lot of time for me, which yeah, which. 00:10:00 Speaker 1: Is fair and is healthy, And there was a lot of It wasn't just from you, Like I can remember, and me and my dad have a great relationship, but I can remember there was a day I was building diaphragms during the Super Bowl and Hunter was being loud, right, And so it wasn't just friction between me and my wife. There was friction between me and my dad. I could remember him snapping it my kid a little bit, and like it all came out right, It just boiled over. My dad had seen how much I was on the internet trying to sell calls, how much I was working, how much I was building diaphragms, and I mean, my dad, for the first time in a while, kind of got in the yelling match and a toe to toe. And so I'm not saying my wife, my dad, my mom aren't my biggest fans or weren't my biggest supporters. There was just a lot of friction along the way, right. 00:10:45 Speaker 2: It wasn't super easy like some people think, Oh, you just fill into this, it's something that you loved and you get to do it. It wasn't something you've got to do. You had to work hard yep. Yeah, and we had to accommodate. 00:10:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can remember. I think my dad's quote was, you spend all the time on that stupid Internet. It's never going to amount to anything. But they didn't kind of see, you know, all the forums, all the groups, all the everything I was on. I had that that idea, and I thought there was some momentum, and but I would never fall. And I'm not trying to say it's a fault. There was just some friction. Early on Fast Forward, I think we're in the middle of so we're building just at this point we're building wood body. I'm building wood bodied calls and putting guts in them and tuning that what is now known as easy a stress. We still have it in our line and I will never remove it from the line, just because that was the call that kind of started the company. But at that point we expand, we get a diaphragm press. I saved up all my money that I was making on a few of the wood calls that we had, and we're still in a position, right, no real money coming out of this. We're giving away more calls and we're making. Thankfully, I was able to save up some just enough money to buy a diaphragm press because I ultimately knew like where I needed to get if I was going to be a legit or a real call maker, you know, get to that point. And at that at that moment in time, we came home from a vacation where we're in Vegas, I think for a short little just one of those cheap vacations we could afford. We didn't gamble a lot. We just went to Vegas to hang out. 00:12:18 Speaker 2: Right. We got home, well, it was for. 00:12:22 Speaker 1: World Calling Champions, yes, the first year we went, in twenty twelve. Yes, We get home and our house is flooded and we don't know how or why that happened at that point, and so we're removed from our house. Me and my wife, who have our own house, are now living with my mom and dad again. It was at that very time that my bud, my good buddy, Tom Ryle, had ran an article in a magazine, a national magazine about the calls, and so timing is not perfect, room isn't perfect, My ability to make calls isn't perfect. Thankfully, I would still able to come up here because the shop was still hadn't been touched, so I would. Now it's even tougher on us. We're now selling more calls than we ever had before. We don't have a website. I can't handle the phone calls, and so this is even less of an ideal situation, is that me and my wife are now me and SONDI are now trying to figure out how do I make the calls, how do we build them, how do we get this many packaged shipped? And you just deal with like it wasn't gradual growing pains. It was kind of instant, which put even more stress on us because we have a kid, one kid, We're living at my mom and dad's, and I'm now spending ninety percent of my time not even assembling them with you guys, I I was up at the. 00:13:40 Speaker 2: Shop well, and a lot of the time I wasn't even really a part of it at this point. It was your mom that was helping you a lot. And then I would I would stay with Hunter and she would be packaging and putting things together, and I would just help when I could. 00:13:56 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, at that point, you had had the job up in Olympia, driving up to Olympia every day. I was also driving to Olympia every day, trying to do this after hours. Just kind of a huge time commitment. And then get where we're like she had said, three four orders a week maybe. 00:14:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if they do a hundred a week, yes. And also this was the time where Hunter got his diabetes diagnosis, so another thing that made things just a little bit harder. 00:14:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, we were crushing it. Hunter was all potty trained, but like year and a half, we're dialed and then things kind of to spiral out of control. They were like, why is this all going backwards? Sandy? For those of you that don't it was also a type one diabetic juvenile on set, so she had that before we had ever met. We were able to test his finger that night, and it was heartbreaking at that point, like it was a lot of y me, why did we get stuck with this? But come to find out rushed him up to mary Bridge and he had also had type one diabetes at the age of. 00:14:52 Speaker 2: Two, Yes, and he thankfully. I mean, you always have to find a positive and I figure I was diabetic for some reason. I just never knew why. And it was actually very relieving knowing all the symptoms that he was feeling. It made things a lot easier. And we actually got out of there in two days and most people are there for almost a week, so. 00:15:13 Speaker 1: And we were able to catch it before it got to the acid keyt todosis, which is what most people usually how they find. 00:15:20 Speaker 2: Out they end up in the hospital. 00:15:23 Speaker 1: So, speaking of kid number two, she's trying to call me right now. Hopefully I didn't interrupt the podcast. So during all of this, we're dealing with brand new type one diabetes with our boy. The call company is exploding. We're not in our house, we're living with my parents, we're pregnant with kid number two, and the company is exploding. You know, I'm not to get all dramatic or over dramatize it, but like this is the stuff that people didn't necessarily see like in the humble beginnings, where nowadays this would be like the easiest year of our lives if as far from a business, you know, if if that was the only orders we got, Like that'd be super easy. We just we'd crush. Kid number two comes along, a lot more issues were going. We had some. Our kid was born. Hunter was born at twenty. 00:16:09 Speaker 2: Eight weeks, twenty eight weeks. My water broke at twenty four twenty four weeks, so it was a little scary. And then with Peyton, she just didn't want to come out. 00:16:18 Speaker 1: And then but what I was going to get to, not to interrupt you, sorry, is all the trips to the hospital you'd get you were more worried this time, and so shot Sawny's like, I think I need to go in. I'm like, we were just there two days ago and they told you and so like she was very worried from the first pregnancy and she had preclamsy. 00:16:36 Speaker 2: I had preclamsia. Yeah, so they say, if you see the sparkles in your eyes when you blink, you need to come in right away. So we were coming in. We were going in every other day. I think it was crazy. 00:16:58 Speaker 1: Like two weeks of the worst ice we had had ever. Like I can remember driving down the highway and just like hitting those frozen chunks of ice. I'm like, this is the most stressful thing ever, and so that's just like a quick picture into our lives. Like she's still working. I don't remember if it was for an orthodonist at that point or the eye doctor. I think it was the orthodonist at that point. I'm working a full forty hour week. We got one kid with type type one diabetes and a new baby on the way right as the company was exploding, and we're kind of looking at each other, and you can just imagine like the stress and the stress and the friction of our relationship kind of kind of hitting its height there. And the company wasn't really rolling. It was more it still kind of looked like a hobby, right. We weren't really making money on it, spending a lot of time. And I can remember back then, I would have been twenty eleven. I can't remember how old I was then. It would have been thirty two or thirty three. And I remember making a promise to you that if this doesn't get going, maybe thirty thirty three one. If this is a get going by thirty five, we'll scrap it and we'll just focus on on the family. So yeah, we kind of just kept the status quo, kind of started to build a brand over the next three or four years. You know, Peyton's born, so now we have two little ones. And this was maybe not on the business side, but from my perspective, I knew I was putting a lot on your shoulders. We kind of knew the recipe was. I needed to hunt, I needed to be able to provide this. But now I'm leaving you at home with a three year old and a zero year old or a one year old, and I'm going to be gone for two two and a half months and in the fall. And that was the point where I knew it was tough. I knew it was difficult. I knew deep down I had to do it, but I wasn't. I'm kind of a one of those guys where if I just didn't talk about it, I could do it. I wanted and I knew it was you know, on you rewind and I always tell everybody. Once Peyton was five years old, like, things got easier. It wasn't easy, but it was definitely easier those first five years until our second kid was until Peyton was five, We're probably the most difficult during the fall. 00:19:13 Speaker 2: Right and I was usually I was probably well, I can honestly say I was pissed. I was jealous. I didn't get to go on vacation. And you know, I always joke with Jason and say that he goes on vacation for hunting, which she says it's work, because I mean technically it is. But come on, like doing what she liked to do all the time and getting to go when you want to go. I didn't get to go on those vacations. So it was rough, but it was but we made it. I mean, given you take. Yeah, and I'm still waiting to take. I mean, I know it's coming. I have a europe trip plan. 00:19:46 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh I'm going to be over the Atlantic more times than I want to. And I keep telling her if I don't, if is there anything we can hunt while we're over there. But I love my wife. She's very she is very giving. She is very flexible on me hunting a lot in the fall. But the writings on the wall that these are going to be vacations between me and her, no hunting involved, so uh, those are those are coming up, you know, in the in the next few years. So yeah, it was tough. It was My wife is a rock star. I would also at this point. Probably have to say my mom was a huge rock in our relationship at that point because you were able to definitely, you know, get get help from my mom. We spent you and my mom, I would argue, you know, we're best friends. Uh, you know still are to that, you know, to that point, but like you spend a lot of time there while I was gone for weeks at a time, right, well. 00:20:41 Speaker 2: And I probably couldn't. I don't like to vent to people when I'm mad at Jason because other people take what I say and they look at it in a negative light. So it was really easy to talk to your mom when I had problems, because, well, you're her son. So if I say, oh, Jason's such a jerk, she's not going to go until she probably. 00:21:00 Speaker 1: Vibe she probably she usually agreed with me. 00:21:02 Speaker 2: So it was great. But I could talk that, I could talk to her about things that I couldn't talk to other people about because I didn't want people to think that, you know, we were going through a rough patch and there was any chance of us splitting up, because that wasn't the case. I just needed to get stuff off my chest, and you know, having somebody like your mom have her name's Pam. Having somebody like Pam in our lives, in my life was something that I couldn't have done it without her. 00:21:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was. It was tough, but like I say, I probably should have did a better job talking about all of this, but I kind of knew what I needed to do, and it was easier in my mind just not to talk about it and and just go do what I felt we had to do. So fast forward to twenty sixteen. I designed the AMP diaphragm and the new bugle tube, and at that point we went from you know, the JV basketball team to the big leagues all in one and fail swoop in twenty sixteen. And so that was when I can't remember the exact timing you were in between you'd already an orthodonist of the eye doctor. You had started doing medical billing or insurance billing from the doctors, and I was in need to hire somebody. And by time you pens it all out like if I pay him this much an hour, by forty hours a week, I'm like, well, doesn't make any sense. You're already driving up there. You get two hours of your life back. You can be more involved in our kids' lives. You know, Hunter was a pain. 00:22:30 Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to have to interrupt, because I don't think it was you that said that. I'm pretty sure your mom said, Jason, either you hire her or hire somebody else, or I'm done. 00:22:38 Speaker 1: Maybe, But regardless, the reason I picked you is what by time you did the math, I would assume pay you this, you know, similar or same amount. You get to spend more time with the kids, be able to take them to school, pick them up. Hunter, with being a Type one diabetic, either needed my mom or you around at all times. So there were there were some other reasons, but you know, thankfully my mom was already working for me, and then you were able to I say me. At that point, it wasn't really the company, it was it appeared to be, you know, we working for me. And then the company started to roll in twenty sixteen and was able to hire Sandy to come on and kind of take over that stuff because I'm still working every day, get you know, building calls when I get home, using my vacation to build calls, and that was kind of you know, the fast track. And then from twenty sixteen things have always you know, is more of the recent story where we're more well known, things got bigger, and yeah, now you know, I get to take the fame or you know, I get to be the face of the company. But the reality is nowadays, since about twenty eighteen, Sandy runs I say run the show. I run the show as far as designing calls, kind of setting the tone for how I want the office atmosphere to be. But on the inside, operationally, I think it's safe to say that you kind of run the show. 00:24:05 Speaker 2: I think I do a lot. 00:24:07 Speaker 1: Yes, she doesn't like it. At times when things get tough, she wishes she wasn't running the show, but she does do a really good job. Now. One thing that's tough is we've hired a lot of friends and family, and I probably put Sondy in a spot which isn't the easiest because she now has to manage some of her best friends, my mom, you know, an aunt. Everybody we've hired in this company has been you know, we're from a small town, and so I sometimes I feel bad. I would say Sondy is more black and white. It's you know, I want it to be this way where I'm I'm more of like try to keep everything, you know, soften the edges, keep everybody happy, and and so yeah, Sondi runs a show like everything being on time, us hitting all of our deliveries, us making sure all of the calls are in stock. She she she bears that burden on the day to day where it seems like I get the goof off or do the fun stuff. 00:25:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets to come down and joke around with the office where I just told him, Hey, we don't have time to do this, let's go. And he comes down and he's like, hey, everybody, let's take a break and go have breakfast. You know, we have to keep that that office morale and we have engagement that we have to do. But you know, sometimes he doesn't do that at the best times. 00:25:25 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm the boss now, I should probably do a better job checking in. But it is that it is that like keeping morale up while it's a balance, right and we're working. We're getting better if we just did the way you know, did things where we are so you know now checking in making sure like hey can we make this, Hey let's go, you know, have lunch. We try to keep it. We're improving on it. We're improving on the old system where you know it's it's all about productivity or it's all about morale, where it's like you got to try to intertwine those two and do it at the right times or the right days or the right weeks, right. 00:25:57 Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes we just need it. I mean, we have to step It is really hard to I mean not just for Jason and I, but I'm sure it's hard for everybody that works with us, to work with us. They get to see us in a different light. I say us, They get to see me in a different light. I'm not always you know, peppy and happy and and let's go team. It's more come on, guys, we need to do this. And it's it's hard to say that. And I get really nervous when I have to talk to them, just because I don't want to cause conflict between us. And you know, they're all great and they just roll with the punches and and do everything that I ask them to do. And I couldn't ask for better people. But it does take a toll sometimes on all of us. 00:26:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is awesome, you know. I can remember the day when meat Eater was getting ready to purchase the company if I was willing to move the company, and that was like and that was gonna be an absolute deal breaker. Extremely proud to keep this in pel be able to offer people jobs that you know, may not pay the most, but uh, you know, we got good benefits. We've got decent, you know, decently flexible hours. We you know, close to home. You're not spending as much of your life driving. So that was that was big for me. And in order to keep it here in pl well. 00:27:14 Speaker 2: And it's nice too. I mean, we're we do a lot of small town sports, so you know, being able to accommodate and let let people go watch their kids play and just keep that part of it because really that's kind of what we built our whole facility on is is family. I mean we hired family, we hired friends, which are basically family. 00:27:35 Speaker 1: Ye. 00:27:36 Speaker 2: So to keep that and say that we are a family business, we really truly are. 00:27:40 Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, and that's that's our day to day. And now I do the call design, do more of the brand managing, you know, making sure the brand looks like we want it to. We're marketing to the right people, We're going the right direction. I dream it up, I put a little bit of it together, build a bill of materials for Sandy, kind of tell her and the team how it needs to be built, and then I get to be hands off. I'm back to the fun stuff. How are we going to make a silly video to launch cis call? How are we going to go hunt? You know, the video edits all of that stuff, you know, this podcast, all of these things, and then Sandy is essentially forty hours a week responsible her and Corey, our business manager, to deliver on all of that, you know, make sure that the calls. Calls are getting sold to the right wholesalers, the right vendors, the box stores are taken care of, and then Sondy's making sure we have enough stuff at the warehouse, the orders are going out correctly, We're not losing too much money on it, and. 00:28:32 Speaker 2: We're going to meet our actually our launch dates. I mean, gosh, just with some of this stuff this year, it's been it's been cut to the wire, but it's very stressful and just's like, oh, we're going to do it. We can do it, and in the back of my head, I know we can do it, but you know, sometimes there's stuff that happens and it's scary. I don't like to be the person that says, oh, we can't do it. 00:28:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, And we're probably still pretty old school where I I feel that anytime we're missing or we're not firing on all cylinders, like I don't want to in my mind, the way I think about running a businesses that could be somebody's job, like that's the first thing that goes right, or that could be multiple people's jobs, and it's I'm very proud, and maybe too proud, and proud is not the right word. I just don't want to be there. I want to I want to be able to hire more. I want to keep this thing growing and and SONDI probably carries that weight more than I do. I think over the last couple of months that's been one of our bigger, bigger arguments is like prioritizing work, like, hey, we don't have to work sixty seventy hours a week, Like, let's let's work our hardest. It is what it is. If we need we need more help, then we need more help. All right, Well enough about the business. That's that's not near as fun. Let's fast forward to you as a hunter. So we mentioned you didn't really hunt as as a kid growing up, besides hanging out, you know, didn't necessarily have your own tag, your own weapon. What was it. Probably kids are eight and six or so, you decide you wanted to start. You always rode around with me and the kids, just in the woods. 00:29:59 Speaker 2: And right, well, I always went out. I mean but even since I was a kid, I always went out. But you know, you kept going on these vacations, and I needed to be a part of your world. And not that I wasn't a part of your world, but I wanted to do something that I knew you liked to do, not necessarily, you know, go to the movies, because you don't really love doing that. So I wanted to be able to do something that you wanted to do and you loved to do, and we could do it together. And I loved hunting growing up and being with my family, and figured, hey, why not get my license and and maybe we can do this together. 00:30:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be truthful, at that point, I'm like, man, this was kind of something the boys did. This was kind of something that you know, growing up, we didn't have a lot of females in the family that hunted. It was kind of that guy's right the passage. But it didn't take long where I was okay with it as long as and I think we probably had a good talk about this, like archery all cutting was going to be for the boys, and then these things will be. You know, you can rifle, I'll hunt. I'll be with you. You can, you know, rifle deer hunt. I don't mind that. I think we I don't want to call them boundaries. But we just discussed like what we were going to do and what we weren't going to do. 00:31:04 Speaker 2: It really wasn't much of a discussion. I'm not a big hiker, so I knew I didn't want to archery hunt. 00:31:10 Speaker 1: So this brings up a funny story. Before she Averred decided she wanted to hunt, you know, kind of a kind of a country girl, just wanted to be out in the woods, like doing some of that stuff. I was going in to scout one of my elk areas that was an all bike in area. She's already shaken her head. We go biking in and so on the way and it's pretty flat and a lot of downhill and we get in there five or six miles and find all the elk that we wanted to find and you know, find everything I needed to see. And on the way out we had to push our bikes half away because it was pretty steep. And I have never heard Sondy's foul mouth or complaining. She hated bikes, she hated rocks on the road, she hated me, she hated me, she hated elk. So it's just a little when Sondy gets frustrated or is too much physical endurance involved, she gets mad. And so I got the last three miles, I got yelled at on the way out, But that was that's just a little glimpse in the her temper and her not wanting to be pushing a bike, her riding a bike, her getting back to the truck. She just wanted to be home. 00:32:19 Speaker 2: Yeah. I like to walk, you know, downhill both ways. Actually I don't even like to really walk back downhills. It hurts my knees sometimes, so flat that's great. 00:32:27 Speaker 1: Uh So that was pre having your hunting license. So fast forward to her having your hunting license. She is the absolute at that time, was the luckiest tag drawer in my family has ever seen. And you're two of putting in She drew a tag that takes twenty there is no taking a certain amount of time. She drew a very good quality elk tag on the east side. Two years later drew the other tag. I mean, and both of these are well under a one percent draws like she should not be drawing these tags draws. Both of those, we weren't able to get it done. On the first one, she ended up getting a little bit sick and we had to come home. And some of that was on me being a little bit too greedy trying to find a big bowl. We had had some that we could have killed the whole time. The time that we finally do hike out there, they were gone, So some of that was on me. Fast forward to her second good tag, she was able to kill a great six point I've just found and I don't recommend anybody lies to their wife ever. But the best thing with her is just fibbing as you go, like how much longer you're like a half mile or so, it'll be easy, but knowing you have like three or four miles. 00:33:42 Speaker 2: I don't think I ever asked. It was more of a you just offered the information, Oh, we only have a half a mile longer. 00:33:47 Speaker 1: Oh, you asked, like, how much more? Because you're trying to figure out whether you're going to be real mad at me right then or you're going to be mad at me in a little bit. Oh. 00:33:53 Speaker 2: I saving it up most of the time. 00:34:04 Speaker 1: So she draws a good tag, kills a really good bull, extremely steep country, and we were to the point where she was just going to shoot any bowl thankfully. Oh and that same night she killed a bull. So not saying I know everything, but we're listening to this bowl behgle probably two or three hundred times. We got the wind in our face. It's obvious those bulls are feeding that bowl and it's herd or feeding up the hill down to Timber, though we can't see what they are. And she starts telling me how we should Elk Counties, that she thinks we're doing it wrong. We should go down in there, we should go call them in, and I'm like, no, we got a gun and it's wide open above tree line, and so I can remember just like shaking my head, just going nuts because my wife, who has never killed an elk at this point and I'm supposed to know what I'm doing, is now telling me everything that we should be doing for three hours straight while we watched or waited for this bowl to show himself. 00:35:00 Speaker 2: You know, I still think I was right. 00:35:02 Speaker 1: So anyways, we get a shot at that good six point, get it killed. And so she had one job in this, so this could be my fault. She loves shooting my three thirty eight edge, which is a single feed gun, me knowing that if she had to get a reshot, so I had an extra shell in my hand. I tell her, after you shoot, you've got to watch. I'm going to reload the gun and get you back on it. She shoots, I don't look at anything. I put unload, put the shell in. What happened? She's like, I don't know. I didn't see anything. I'm like, well that you had one job. Anyways, so we now know if this bull is wounded. 00:35:41 Speaker 2: Guy said it flipped over. I just you didn't just flip over. 00:35:45 Speaker 1: You didn't say that. I think you had no idea what happened. Otherwise, I went around. 00:35:50 Speaker 2: Home, really didn't go far away. 00:35:51 Speaker 1: The next one, So we have I have no idea. She's now stating that she has an idea that it flipped over. I have no idea, and she never said that when we there, Otherwise I would and ran over there. This is probably the steepest ground sidehill that I've been on in a long time. And it went from steep sidehill and then it went through some rock shoots that was almost like that that like shale rock that that is hard, but it'll also slip loose. I bebop over there and go through that section, like she's not gonna like that. And I bebop through the next section of rock and I get over there and the elk is dead, but it's starting to get dark, and I really don't want to go back to her, but she is now stuck in the middle of the shale, screaming at me to come get her. She can't go forwards, can't go backwards. She's just stuck and it's dark. And so I finally get my way back over there, and as one of those he told. 00:36:40 Speaker 2: Me to take my time and he would go over and just sit with the elk to make sure that I could find him with his light, and and so I basically rode that rock to the bottom and then crawled my way back out. 00:36:51 Speaker 1: It definitely those build character in a relationship, though those moments when you were You were nervous until I got there, and then I got my butt showed for a little bit. Yeah, we helped you out, and. 00:37:01 Speaker 2: It just like and I helped you out because it made myself really tired. By the time I got to you, I didn't have any breadth to yell at you. 00:37:06 Speaker 1: Yep, it worked out good. But then when we got to the elk, it was just like when you're holding that light for your dad as a kid and you get yelled at no matter where the light's at. I asked my beautiful wife to hold the light. So I hadn't gotten an elk in a long time, but I knew it was so steep where this elk died. He got tangled up on the log. So I was going to get him and skin him out and just get a bunch of air under him, get everything cooled down. I'm gonna call in the reinforcements the next day. 00:37:32 Speaker 2: And yeah, there was no way that I would be able to help pack that she was. 00:37:36 Speaker 1: It was steep, and she was scared to death of where we were at, so she wouldn't move to get the light where I needed And so I literally had one light that was a major mistake. Son. He didn't have a headlamp, so I had no headlamp on my own. But she really wanted to if I remember, she really wanted to have the light. She didn't want to be standing there in the dark. And so we made it work. And then the next that that hike out, like I said, extreme steep. This is where I lied to her, probably more than ever. I told her we had a long ways out, and I could see that we're getting closer to the road at one point. You know, most people when they get tired and need to take a break, they turn around and sit down or they'll cook them. Sondia was just laying down, like standing up so steep that she could just like cross her arms and lean into the hill, which made for one of the better pictures of all time. 00:38:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jason likes to likes to share that one a little bit. 00:38:24 Speaker 1: But she's like, I'm too tired to turn around, sit down. 00:38:26 Speaker 2: I just he just kept saying, go to the next tree. Because I had to stop by a tree. I was afraid that I'd slide back down, and if I slid back down, I wasn't coming back out of there. He could have packed me out the next day too. 00:38:35 Speaker 1: So this is how well I know my wife been around a long time. She's one of those people. And you could tell I could pick it to the ninety nine percent confidence, and she will pick out a landmark and then that's where she's stopping. So she'll pick out like a little tree, a little ledge, a rock that maybe sticks out bigger than the rest. And so I could see that, and I would try to get her to like bypass the first landmark and get to the second. I get to that tree up there, and no, she's she's going to that landmark and that's where she So I was trying That's what I was trying to fight through there. Hey, we got long ways ago, we got to keep going. But no, we were able to get a call out, get my entire family, which is pretty cool to share, and your first pack out, and a couple of my buddies John and showed up. 00:39:19 Speaker 2: He came in clutch with the chocolate milk. The next morning. 00:39:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can remember you. You were kind of nervous to ask. You're like, is it okay if I don't go back down there in the morning. 00:39:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really didn't want to. 00:39:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, she had given me her notch tag and the little letter that said we had the just to make sure we were all of our eyes were dotted and teas were crossed, that we had the right to pack out her animal on her behalf, and and my dad and two uncles and a couple of buddies. We went down there, took care of it and bug it on out. 00:39:45 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was fun to watch them all come up, you know, and take pictures of Jason and his uncles bringing out my first bowl. Yeah, but you know, it is kind of It's not that I'm just lazy, but it is hard being diabetic and having your blood shager go alow and being on a trail like that too. So it Yeah, I guess I have an excuse built in. 00:40:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's well, she's out there, she's she's hunting hard, and yeah, all I'll let her have that. It's not even excuse, it's a real legit thing. But uh yeah, we we've always got there. We've got to where we needed to. You know, on that same hunt, we we I probably pushed it too hard on those jeep trails where you weren't having fun going up and down the chasing that big Bowl. 00:40:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Big Boulder, the ones. Yeah, I didn't like that. I think that he took some really not nice pictures of me, videos videos, Yes, walking slowly. 00:40:42 Speaker 1: And so now you're hunting is I mean we still put you in for for elk tags. You will elk hunt around here occasionally, but now I would say we we deer hunt more together. You yeah, meal deer and that not the elk hunting is too hard. It's just meal deer is I would say, more enjoyable for you, more enjoyable for me. We don't get as many arguments, whether it's Montana, Colorado. You know, we can glass from the road, go after what we want to make sure the stock is going to be the right stock. There is still always a point of contention in our relationship gets tested the most right at the point where we got to shoot something or you have to shoot something. I don't think we've ever had that bowl in Colorado that James spotted. I guess went off with it. No, we argued on that one. I would say, argue we disagree at the point where I'm trying to get the gun set up and dial it and she can't see something, or getting the scope and that's where we look back, and it's the time we laugh at the most. But during the moment, we're button heads, right right. 00:41:40 Speaker 2: I get a little flustered, and then I have to calm myself down before I shoot, because well, I think I get flustered because I don't like to. I don't want to miss, not just because I don't want to wound an animal and then have them suffer, but also because I don't want to have to chase that sucker even further. 00:41:59 Speaker 1: That's a good, good reason. But no, I I never tell her this, and and hopefully she's not listening right now. But she's a great shot. We're a great team. Where I've got to do the dialing and the figuring of the wind. But once I get a gun set up and you know, near the animal, she's she's never not executed a perfect shot. And so I feel still feel safe though that if she was ever gonna shoot at me, I'd be all right because she can't dial the gun and she doesn't like getting set up, so i'd have a little bit of time to escape. 00:42:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, But no, she can. 00:42:31 Speaker 1: Shoot the lights out. She's she's a great shot, and uh yeah, so that's that's been and we're the last two times we went to Montana, we've been able to take the Hunter has his hunting license and been able to hunt Montana with us, and so it's been fun to to get to do a little bit as a family. 00:42:47 Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, and you know, it is nice taking Hunter. It kind of breaks things up, and I have somebody that will stay kind of back with me, and and so I don't have to push myself. I just blame it on him. Now I say, oh, yeah, Hunter's blood sugar is low, so we got to slow down. So now we have two excuses. Yeah, but yeah, it's fun, and it's also nice to know that, you know, Jason has a hunting partner. And if I don't want to go, not that I don't like to go and hang out with Jason, but you know, if I stay home, there's nobody here except for me and Peyton, and then we can do some girl stuff too. 00:43:24 Speaker 1: So yeah, and Peyton, you know, she's so busy in sports, more so than Hunter. Or it's like if we're not here, she doesn't skip a beat, she doesn't hardly know we're gone. She'll give us some updates on the phone and and let us know how her volleyball games win or whatever. She's football games went. She's all over the place, not. 00:43:40 Speaker 2: That she plays football, but she just goes. 00:43:41 Speaker 1: She'll go. She's at every event that the school puts on everything. So now she she does not need to be entertained at all. She's got her own schedule and her own So yeah, it's uh, it's been a lot of fun. It's it's been tough. We kind of pushed through and uh you've kind of been the you know, I get to do all the fun stuff and you've kind of held down the fort and yeah, it's just it's been fun. You know this not to get too sappy, but you talk about who you want to build a life with and what it's gonna look like, and to be able to kind of put all that together and make it make it come true, is it's been awesome. 00:44:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been Uh, you know, I said I wouldn't support him, but I support him in everything he does. He's a pretty smart guy and he always has our best interest at heart. 00:44:25 Speaker 1: So yeah, and I did not pay her to say that, but uh no, I try to. I'm I'm very you know, logical technical. I try to think through and I just didn't see how this was gonna miss. It just took a little convincing of everyone around me. And yeah, it's it's been an awesome ride. I hate to say that we're getting old, but and anybody it listens, it's older than us. I apologize. I'm forty three now, she's forty two. 00:44:53 Speaker 2: I am forty one and you are forty two. You're gonna you just turned forty three. 00:44:57 Speaker 1: I'm all messed up. And see I'm so old. I lost track. I'm forty two, she's forty one, going to be forty two. Well, we kind of pushed you that tough spot where our kids are, you know, a high school, junior high life's I would say anything but easy, but it's I feel like we've kind of hit that easy street where things are going good. You know, we've been together for so long now that we kind of know what each other feeling. You know, those old arguments are done about time and and this so uh no, it's been awesome and what can you oh, this might be dangerous. I was gonna a little sneak peak of what's it like Aside from everything we've mentioned living with me, what's what's something people don't know about me? 00:45:40 Speaker 2: Well, he's a complete slob, for one. I mean, he's the most unorganized person that I've ever met. 00:45:46 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry. 00:45:47 Speaker 2: I will take slob back because I like to keep things very tidy and I'm really organized in a little OCD. But Jason, he he has stacks of stuff everywhere. And here's a little story about him that he probably would never share with anybody. Before I came into the business. 00:46:06 Speaker 1: You never asked me if you can share this sty I. 00:46:08 Speaker 2: Don't have to because you've already said that I'm the boss. And so the hardest thing for Jason was staying organized in the business. And I remember, right before I came on, and before his mom said that we needed the help, I was doing a lot of billing and I was checking emails and I said, Jason, you have so many voicemails and I just don't know what to do right now. And are you checking your voicemails? And you said, yep, I'll check him in just a second. And he actually pushed a button and deleted all of them. And I said, what did you do that for? He goes, I'm just so overwhelmed. I need some help, and so so we you know, we pushed through. 00:46:50 Speaker 1: And well now that's why, like people are re swawn by email, like my phone even to this day, you know, we gave my old phone number up to to the customer service and let them take it over. You know, I've got a new phone number and still to this day, like, I love talking to my friends, but I can't get anything done if I'm answering all the text all all the voicemails, all the everything. And so back in that time, back on the old iPhones, I could just hit a button to delete all my voicemails and then that just fixed the problem. I like, it was crazy. It was just like a huge weight lifted off your shoulder. As soon as you push that button, you were good to go. 00:47:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't always just work stuff. I mean there's probably five or six for me saying Jason, where are you at? What are you doing? And and it was it was weird. I mean I didn't really always check his messages because I don't. We're not one of those families that I look at his phone a lot. But being part of the business, it kind of got to the point where I had to listen to a few things and I'm like, hey, so on so called and they need a call, you know, and so it was just it was more convenient. But he didn't. He didn't always before I did that. He didn't always take care of those messages. 00:47:57 Speaker 1: Hey I'm busy guy. No, I appreciate, yeah, coming on here. I know you're hesitant, but I always thought it would be good to hear your side and your upbringing and kind of how this you know, I get. I don't want to say credit I am. I'm the face of the company, but the reality is it's been you know, me, you and I through this whole thing, and you know, the last ten years has definitely probably been more you than me, aside from me just getting to design the new stuff and making sure it works. 00:48:26 Speaker 2: I don't know about that, but yeah, that's a. 00:48:28 Speaker 1: Lot of meat. Well, thank you for coming on, honey. Until next time. I hope you guys are enjoying the cutting the existence and elk season is getting close, so I'm excited to kind of start getting into that