00:00:11 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. This week, Jason Phelps and I are going to have a little debate on whose dad is toughest or you know, when you're a kid in around the playground, you're like, well, my dad's tougher, tougher than your dad. 00:00:28 Speaker 2: And in the. 00:00:28 Speaker 1: Spirit of Father's Day, I thought that'd be a good, good little podcast to talk about. 00:00:33 Speaker 2: What do you think? 00:00:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was trying to, like, you gave me five minutes, so now I'm trying to like stack the deck in my dad's favors. 00:00:40 Speaker 2: So I've been trying to think of things that would make him tough. 00:00:43 Speaker 1: Well, Phelps, I as a son, you know, your whole life, you've been telling people your dad's tougher, you know, than their dad, and then you get to like argue about it. And I know how you like to argue. 00:00:55 Speaker 2: So. 00:00:57 Speaker 3: Maybe you call it debate. It's a debate. Yeah, I definitely I like to debate people, not argue. But it'll be a good, good little podcast. And then, uh, you know, tip our hat to the all the old older generation. You always think about it. We were just talking before, you know, some of these old all the whole all the old guys were tough for us. You know, they got the I Love on X, but they went out in the woods without that. They went out in the woods with They didn't have the newest, latest, and the greatest. So uh, well, we're gonna we're gonna joke around and have a good time with Whose dads was tougher. I'll tip my hat to to everybody before us that truly was hunting, you know, tougher. They were hunting the same spots. We were doing it with gear that wasn't near as advanced. You know, they didn't have the freeze dried meals, They didn't have any of this stuff that that we have the day to make our lives super easy. They were they were doing it the hard way. So that's the last nice thing I'm gonna say about your dad, though, Derek. 00:01:50 Speaker 1: Oh, come on, now, easy, easy, easy Now. Well, my dad he was kind of he was pretty gritty, you know, he was a he was a old school I said, I think that would probably be a really good way to to describe him, because he was old like when I was. When I was born, he was fifty, so he started family pretty late in life, and he'd seen some stuff like he right when he got out of high school, you know, right as soon as he turned eighteen. I think he even lied back. You could do this back then in the in those days. But he lied, and uh, he joined the Marines and went to World War two and see all the crap. He's seen all the bad stuff, went to the Pacific theater, and I don't know, I don't know, like with with the the World War coming, I'm not sure why he thought, oh marines, that sounds cool, you know, because he back then I didn't even know hardly anybody had TVs, you know, let alone you know, anything in the Internet. You know, that wasn't even thought of yet. But thought, oh Marines, that's it was cool man, that's like, that's like the toughest toughest job in World War Two was to be a marine almost. I think you know, they were right there, you know, the head of the spear in the Pacific, landing on all those different islands and fighting. It was crazy. It's insane, and hats off to all those those brave soldiers that died over there and fought over there. It's crazy. 00:03:27 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, Art and that that kind of is a good segue into like the different different age is of of your dad versus my dad. My grandpa was in the marine, served in World War Two. So we're we're off by about a generation there, but it is it is a good segue to my dad was raised by a marine, and and so that I feel like that kind of got passed down. Three he had two brothers that were my dad's one of five brothers, three of them were all the same age. My dad was in the middle of those upper three. And then grandma and grandpa had an axe and then had a friend of the accident. 00:04:02 Speaker 2: Is that kind of how that whole system works. 00:04:03 Speaker 3: So five brothers in the house and uh, you know, very competitive family, and they got in a lot a lot of trouble from a marine dad that didn't take a whole lot of crap. But those those three tried to raise hell in their high school days and the after, and so it was a I got some of that trickle down effect, you know. 00:04:21 Speaker 2: But yeah, so that I just wanted to point that out. 00:04:23 Speaker 3: You're like your grand your dad and then my grandpa were probably similar aged, you know when and served in as a marine in World War Two. 00:04:31 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't know that truck. Grandpa. 00:04:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't like so that. 00:04:36 Speaker 3: I know it was about dads, but it is a little bit about Grandpa. Like the nicest guy in the world, but he didn't like kids until they were like past eight. 00:04:43 Speaker 2: He didn't want to deal with them. 00:04:44 Speaker 3: And and so like growing up, I'm like, man, that's the meanest guy ever. Like sit there cross legged, like smoking his Winston cigarette at the at the at the kitchen table, you know, and just like. 00:04:54 Speaker 2: That guy is. 00:04:54 Speaker 3: And then as you got a little older, like you did all the little magic tricks on you, and and you're like it was weird, like itstantly changed when you were old enough to not just scream and yell and bets. 00:05:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, be a pain. 00:05:05 Speaker 3: He turned into uh, you know, super cool guy. But yeah, tough just yeah, those those Marines back in those days, just tough, gritty kind of quiet. 00:05:15 Speaker 2: Just yeah. 00:05:16 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:05:16 Speaker 2: I almost wanted to be left alone. 00:05:18 Speaker 1: It seemed like, oh, yeah, that's my dad too. He uh. And then you know, his his yes was yes, and his no really meant no. Do not ask again. If he says no, that's into the conversation next year. 00:05:31 Speaker 2: Don't even ask. Now. 00:05:34 Speaker 1: Kids out today are like Oh but Dad, plea O you they'll sit there for hours begging and wanting, and yeah, that wouldn't happen around my dad. 00:05:42 Speaker 3: The second time he asked, like, that's that's worth getting a weapon at that point, like you should have known not to ask the second time. 00:05:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know it's funny, you know he's growing up like that. You kind of questioned, like, man, my dad is such a hard case man. He is hard nose and and just there's no bs with it is that. It is what it is. And that was a lot. It was pretty uncomfortable. But you know, I think I think from his perspective, and now that I'm a father, I can see why. You know, you got to draw. Of course, you got to give your kids love and stuff, but you have to draw a pretty hard line on some certain things and and you gotta I think it. I think his main goal was to raise some boys that weren't, you know, pieces of crap. You know, you wanted to know, wanted good men that would be productive members of society and treat other people right. And yeah, I think it worked. 00:06:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, similar to my dad. 00:06:37 Speaker 3: Uh, I didn't have the marine Dad, but it kind of passed down and so very strict, you know, even for I say my time, I'm only ten years younger than you. But like I think in that like we've seen a rapid like change the softening right of parenting and what we're allowed to do and what's acceptable. And you know, nowadays, the way you know your dad treated you would really be frowned upon and even like what my dad expected to me, Like now it would be torture for your kids and like, but I can remember other kids being able to like the quote unquote hellions that parents didn't care. They'd be riding bikes all over town after school. It looked like the coolest thing ever to do. But dad, Dad told me I had, you know, two hours of cutting firewood and stacking it. You know, hey, I dropped a load of firewood off after work, Like you and your brother need to get out there and split it and stack it in a little barrow. And we'd run it a couple hundred yards and stack it in rows. And it was like I didn't get that same that that same childhood as these kids that parents didn't have a carrier weren't home. 00:07:39 Speaker 2: But now you. 00:07:40 Speaker 3: Can look back on that twenty years later, I want to go like tell my dad, like, thank you for for that, you know, because like you look at these other people, You're like, they don't have a not the it's not the measuring stake. But they're not the best life. They know, that's the most disciplined. They don't have they have they don't have their stuff together, and. 00:07:56 Speaker 1: Well they get in a lot of trouble too. I grew up in a town and it pretty rough place. And the same thing, I like, you you will make a bee line straight from school home. There'll be no farting around you, no like goofing off after school. You get home. Once I got home, checked in, my mom was pretty lucy gus. You're like, oh yeah, you want to go run around in the woods still dark, Yeah, go go do it. But there would be there were be chores, you know, firewood always always freaking firelod. 00:08:24 Speaker 3: Yeah, firewood for days. And I told my I remember one time I was mad. Dad got home and he started helping the firewood. I'm like, we didn't if the house wasn't eighty five degrees and we didn't burn it so hot all the time, we wouldn't need to cut as much of this. 00:08:37 Speaker 2: He just looked at me. 00:08:38 Speaker 3: He's like, to my house, I make the decisions. You keep splitting firewood. And I'm like, okay, yes, sir. 00:08:43 Speaker 2: It's just like gosh, I hated. 00:08:45 Speaker 3: I wanted to help him come up with any ideas not to have to do this much firewood and. 00:08:49 Speaker 2: Be just pouring. 00:08:50 Speaker 3: You know, he's got all of his fancy you know, he logged for Warehouser forever growing up, and you have all of his fancy rain gear on, and I'm out there just trying to get buy in a soaking wet sweatshirt and sweatpants or something that that I throw on after school. 00:09:03 Speaker 2: It was just terrible. But yeah, but no, it is. It's it's just different. 00:09:07 Speaker 3: And these guys like I always called him cheap, but it was like, no, it's how you heated your house. 00:09:12 Speaker 2: It was the way that they did it forever. 00:09:14 Speaker 3: You had to cut your firewood, and without that you weren't so yeah, being being brought up that way and that was my that was my like growing up. Vacation or my weekends for my entire life is oh yeah, him and his two brothers and their wives and their kids. 00:09:29 Speaker 2: We would oh you know, just log that clear cut. It's close to town. 00:09:32 Speaker 3: We better go get that good, that good firewood while it's ten miles out versus thirty miles out. And so I remember just like trailer trailer back, a truck back of truck, every vehicle we could get up there and just sitting and cutting firewood for hours and hours and hours, and like this is this is my weekend again. 00:09:50 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, every Saturday morning when as a kid in the summertime and like all these other kids like, oh it's summer, we get to screw off all summer. No Saturday morning, six am, get up and Mike, when my dad said get out of bed, you got to. He'd always said you better hit the ground running, and if you weren't, if you laid in bed, he was coming with the belt, like to get you up. So and then we would go cut firewood till probably noon or so. So we'd get two or three big loads and we got firewood close to home, you know, probably a ten minute drive. But my brothers and I, but I mean I was little when we first started cutting firewood, and I was expected, you know, to work and do whatever. And as I got a little bit bigger, you know i'd get but I was probably I don't know, eight years old and packing blocks and stuff, and he's like, if it wasn't quick enough, he'd like, grab a little willow switch or a little switch and smack me on the bubble. All right, get let's get going, you know, get to moving. So, you know, we were literally like trotting back and forth with firewood, and my brothers if they ever got lippy, or if they got in trouble for fighting with each other, my dad would be like, oh, you guys have too much energy, it seems like. So we had this gigantic woodpile in the front yard. He'd be like, all right, well today, when I'm gone at work, you're gonna take all that firewood and move it to the backyard. So, and we didn't have a wheelbarrow, so it's just like armloads of firewood. Well, of course I'm not the one in trouble, but I remember that my brothers all day long, just trotting back and forth moving firewood to the backyard. Well that was pretty good for a while until they got in another squabble or skirmishion, Oh, you guys have too much energy. Again, they'd have to move it again and it was hilarious. So I kind of got to learn from my brothers not how not to piss off my dad too bad. 00:11:46 Speaker 2: So it's good. It's good. 00:11:48 Speaker 3: They kind of a trail blazer in a way. They blaze the trail on what to do and kept you out of a little trouble. 00:11:55 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I never did have to move the wood. I just had to split it, load it unloaded, and stack it. Yeah anyway, Yeah, so okay, So there's a little bit of background on her dad. So for as far as hunting goes, you know, my dad he moved Idaho in the forties right after World War Two, found solaces in the back country of Idaho. It was pretty wild like where he hunted back then. There wasn't a road. Since then, there's been a road put in there. But you know, they'd go in with horses. How many his buddies they'd go in with horses, And there were so many elk. This is like the heyday of elk and Idaho. There's so many elk everywhere. He said, it looked like a TV trails up and down the mountain everywhere. But there was just that was elk trails and they never shot bulls. They would never They're like, do not shoot a bowl. We're just going to shoot cows. It was, you know, it's legal back then. And then you know, he would kind of tell me, you know, oh yeah, we go here and there. And then finally when I'm old enough to grasp and see, you know, we drove up in those places when I was a kid, and he's like, yeah, I see that spot way up there. Yeah, that's where we used to kill him. You know, you'd have to climb about three thousand vertical feet from the river up to this spot. And since then, I've gone out there. I'm like, I'm gonna go up there someday. I'm like I look up there, I'm like, holy God, and there's no elk there. The elk are gone. Now there's wolves at them, and I'm like, I don't know if I really want to walk up there. I mean, it's vertical, thick brush. It's like some of the most inhospitable places you could hunt elk that you've ever seen. And I'm just thinking, Wow, my dad climbed up that hill every day and with shitty boots and you know, no rain gear, and I'm sure it rained a lot back then in October as it does nowadays in October, and you know, no rain gear, So what would you have like ten pants and stuff like that, you know, and just you know, crappy crappy gear. But they would go up there and they would spend a month if they want, you know, they they would all get elk and camp and spend a month up there and and and leave. So and I think, man, here we are today. We got the we got crispy boots, we got high tech gear built from first Light. We got all these all this equipment, these guns, these these bows, all this gps. We got binock, I mean, all the the finest stuff you know to hunt elk. And we complained. Yeah, reading it's deep, you know. And you think about them old timers which had I mean this the worst gear possible, and they're just doing it. 00:14:47 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and yeah, that's the same way. Like my dad grew up, I only really know him as a logger. He used to be a manager of a of a There was a place in town called Yardbirds. It was like it was the mega store, right like it'd be it's like Walmart on steroids now. It was had everything. He was a manager of the sporting goods. So my dad was always kind of involved in reloading and hunting. And Grandpa was a big time hunter. My great grandpa was a big time hunter. And then they those guys all ended up working in the woods. And uh so, like hunting was just kind of what you did. 00:15:21 Speaker 2: There was no. 00:15:22 Speaker 3: Grandpa expected you to hunt. It was part of the family. It was the thing. It was part of the dynamic. You know, if you're going to get any meat, you're gonna hunt. And uh so, yeah, they they and then as I've got older, my dad they were die hard back. 00:15:38 Speaker 2: When they were younger. 00:15:39 Speaker 3: I I'm kind of watching, like I'm able to like see the clock tick now. You know, my dad, I still get to hunt with him, you know, here and there, and it's you're starting to see the age catch up a little bit. And I almost feel it's more it's more mental. But you know, they grew up hunting around here, and and I always go to go deer hunting. That was my growing up. Like elk hunting was the right of passage, the way that you have to hunt elk around here to be successful. Deer hunting was something that Grandma and grandpa. You know, Grandma could go along, and then that meant to grandkids could go along with grandpa, or my dad could take me and one of his brothers or whatever. So we got to go deer hunting, because around home, it's you know, you drive to clearcuts, your glass and you move on. 00:16:23 Speaker 2: We weren't timber hunting as much. 00:16:25 Speaker 3: There were times where maybe my dad would you know, push a piece of a timber and and me and me and my uncle or me and somebody would like drive around and pick them up. But elk hunting, you didn't get to go until you were in high school, until you you know, understood navigation well enough and knew how not to get lost, knew how to be out all day. And so around home, I can remember like these guys, everybody claims that their their dad's superman, right, there's nothing that your dad didn't do, But like this, this like exemplified it that there was something that I didn't get to see or understand completely. 00:16:59 Speaker 2: But they would be gone, you know. 00:17:00 Speaker 3: They always talked about being out of the truck all day, which you know nowadays to me, some of the whip spots me hunt like, well, yeah, you weren't in the truck for a couple of days because you were spiked out, but around home, like they would literally leave the truck and they'd have these hunts put together where they'd never run into like a motorized road or whatever, and they'd get picked up at you know, there's such and such bridge or whatever. They and so there was this like thing that I didn't know about that made them like, you know, now looking back, I'm like, oh, that wasn't that cool. But as a as a youngster, and then my family in this area, all being loggers, always known where the Olak were, like seemed to be very successful. So like I can remember being at school and and you know, they would bring the bulls through, you know, to the gas station or whatever. Because I was in school, I didn't get to go. And it was that thing where my dad and uncles, which you know they've all the uncles all had a big impact on me as a hunter and watching how some did certain things different and the ones that got after it a little bit more typically got to notch their tags. But yeah, they they very very good woodsmen, probably not the most like technically sound hunters, you know, they they didn't they weren't calling back then there were rifle hunters, but I took a lot of what I've been able to learn and apply from their ability to be a good woodsman. You know, one thing that I think we all still laugh about when I tell this is, you know, we talked about hunting crispies. My dad and uncles all hunting white new balances. 00:18:26 Speaker 2: And I'm like, what the what the hell like? 00:18:29 Speaker 3: And i live in southwest Washington right like the capital. 00:18:32 Speaker 1: They do they wear jorts too, gene shorts. 00:18:35 Speaker 3: Nope, Nope, they're in there. They're in their tin pants or whatever. The grilling when they're sometimes yeah, okay, like the can like canvas type short looking things there. They're true dads. My dad's got his lawnmow and green new balances. He's got his like mediocre, and then he's got his going out new balances like the three the three tiered new balance system, and then he's got his elk hunting ones. 00:19:01 Speaker 2: But no, I'm like, what do you guys. 00:19:02 Speaker 3: You know, as a little kid, I'm wearing like Dana pronghorns because my mom she's helping buy my hunting gear, like he needs to keep his feet dry, and my dad's like need to be able to feel sticks under your feet so they don't snap it. I'm like, oh, and you know, and they're big thing was, well, we're trying to like sneak up on these elk in their bed or we're rifle hunting the timber, like the goal is to be as silent as possible. And so I did get to learn like a lot of good woodsmanship things like elk knowledge around home, like well, these elk are probably going here because of this, or they've got pressure, so they're going to this type of area. So yeah, my and then my dad was just he's just back then, we had it was so good around here, similar to where your dad was growing up, Like they never looked at really going out of state like they would they would go to eastern Washington to hunt milder. That was like their family trip. My grandpa and and my uncles and my dad would all go to eastern Washington every year on a on a four to five day meal deer trip. And then they started, uh twenty twenty five thirty years ago going Montana. And so my dad never really got into anything too crazy that wasn't around home because we had it so good here. The elk hunting was as good as could be. You know, between the seven or eight elk tags they had, they usually killed six or seven bowls, and we would kill ten deer, you know, because some of the ladies would hunt and grandma Grandma would deer hunt and stuff, and that was that was kind of my upbringing on just guys that hunted all the time after after logging, after all of that, and they you know, usually we would my dad. 00:20:29 Speaker 2: Would pick me up. 00:20:30 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, we've seen a good two point buck to day at work, or we've seen a three point buck here, We're gonna go back out and see if we can't like dig them back up. So I always felt like we had a little bit of a head start just because those guys were out in the woods all the time, you know, and my my dad's just like everybody started as a choker setter, went to chaser, ended up ultimately you know, running the yard, and then you finish your career in a log truck or some guys do because your body starts to get broke down. 00:20:55 Speaker 2: But yeah, touch on the toughness thing. 00:20:57 Speaker 3: Like it's one of those things that like will be etched in my mind forever. You know, way back in the day, they didn't have darn tough socks. They didn't have all the They were the old school wool socks. The first time you put them on, they'd stretch to that size and never never, you know. So I could remember like hearing duct tape at three o'clock in the morning or two thirty. You know, I'm still supposed to be sleeping for school, but you'd hear that, Like when that sound of duct tape being pulled tight, you know and coming off with a roll. That was Dad pulling his wool socks up and taping them to his shins so that the socks would stay up all day. And then you know, like otherwise you had to deal with your sock in the bottom of your rubber cor Yeah, so that was their trick. And then, you know, I could always tell them. He's like, man, he would tell me, don't ever be a logger because you're not tough enough to do this. He's like, I love you, but you're just not tough enough and I don't want you to have to do this. 00:21:50 Speaker 1: Wow, you're dead dead called you soft a. 00:21:53 Speaker 3: Little bit, he's but he's like it is the he was trying and then he was trying to help this case out. He's like, it is the worst thing to be out there. He's like, we don't live in a climate that's quite cold enough. So he's like, you're dealing with thirty three to thirty four degree rain. 00:22:07 Speaker 2: All day long. He's like, I would love for it to snow. It will not snow. 00:22:11 Speaker 3: So everything's wet, and everything's thirty three degrees as cold as you can be, and every day you'd come out of the hole, he's like, you're soaking wet no matter what. 00:22:20 Speaker 2: Black you know, they. 00:22:21 Speaker 3: Called it black iron rain gear, you know, Helly Hanson type PVC stuff, and just soak to the bone, and just like, man, that seems like a miserable way to get a paycheck. 00:22:42 Speaker 1: My my dad he was a logger in Idoh too. That's kind of like the thing you would do when you'd moved Idaho back in them days, and and and a lot of those areas. That's about all there is still. I mean, logging is not nearly as big anymore, with with some of the mills getting shut down and whatnot, and federal land not getting logged as much as it used to. But he used to log a lot fall timber whatnot. He eventually moved to the move to be a mechanic in the shop, you know it for this big logging outfit. And but the same thing at my house that made me laugh. Think about what you're saying there. My dad too, he's like, you're not ever going to be a logger. He my brothers and I. Yet you're not getting a job in the woods. What you know. I think I'm just gonna go logging when I get out of high school. No you're not. You're going to find something else. Maybe I'll go work at the mill. No, you're not working at the mill either. 00:23:33 Speaker 2: No, get out of the timber industry. 00:23:35 Speaker 1: Get out of the timber industry. Do not do it. You're not allowed. 00:23:38 Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean growing up in I mean we always another debate we love to have is like the headquarters or the world, the world's headquarters of logging. I always claim to be like in the heart of it here in Southwestwa. Washing and dirt claims that Idaho produces more wood, and so we argue all the time. But like growing up around a bunch of loggers, like growing up there were you know, a logger died every three or four years, you know, every two or three years a logger would die and kind of opened your eyes just like and then you're worried. Like as a kid, you don't understand like statistics and all this stuff, Like my dad's out there doing the same job that that guy is. And when that choker, you know, broke free or snapped, or this cable whipped or the mainline did what. I don't understand logging to a t, but like he's out in that same damn clearcut or he was the first on scene or the first one to respond. 00:24:29 Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, I don't like it. Yeah, And then prior, right. 00:24:33 Speaker 3: Out of high school, my dad logged it before he became the manager of the had a I guess a log slipped, a choker came off, landing, rolled all the way down through the unit, and he just happened to duck behind a stump and got jumped over. And it's like he quit the next day. He's like, I'm not doing this, and then ultimately came back to it. 00:24:50 Speaker 1: But yeah, my uncle he got hit by a big limb, one of those like a giant limb out of a tree hit him in the back after falling a tree and broke his back and he was messed up the rest of his life. I mean he could walk and stuff, but it affected other things to where he couldn't you know, work. You know, a good friend of mine his his dad was a lifelong timber faller and then went on to teach blogging safety. Ironically, he's a he was a he was at a logging safety in field session, you know, teaching timber falling and whatnot, and somebody fell a tree on him, killed him. Yeah, it's crazy. It's just that's a crazy dangerous profession. 00:25:34 Speaker 2: Yep, yep. 00:25:34 Speaker 3: Those guys are are tough and and nowadays we've even softened up that career, not to not to throw shade at loggers, but now you send a tiger cat over the hill and everything's mechanics, you know, mechanized, and nobody's nobody, no boots on the ground, and it's like, yeah, they've safety is number one, and loggers are I won't say a dying breeze. But there aren't near as many people setting chokers and doing the old school way anymore. 00:25:57 Speaker 1: But those guys still have giant balls. 00:26:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the stuff I you see him doing. 00:26:02 Speaker 1: It's like they're yo yo, and this machine off this cliff and they're shovel logging or whatever. It's like, what the hell. 00:26:09 Speaker 2: I don't trust that cable that's old. 00:26:10 Speaker 1: No, I have trust issues. Those guys are pretty brave. I'm going to come back to woodsmanship. You're talking a lot about that. I think a lot of hunters today, especially you know, let's say I call him adult onset hunters, they miss out on some of that those woodsmanship fundamentals that we had as kids, Like we'd go out and cut firewood, or sometimes my dad just like to go for walks out in the woods. So we lived right next to five minute ten minute drive to the woods, and we'd go out, and I can remember I was pretty young, and we'd go out after dinner or something and go take a walk in the woods and him and my mom and I and we'd walk out these old logging roads. He's old brushed in with logging roads. And he'd always like, all right, right, which way you know, we'd go this way and that way and which way back to the truck. Well, if you had to walk a straight line, which way would you go back to the truck? I think this way no, And you know, and over time I kind of figured it out. But you know, he always carried out an axe or a hatchet. And my dad, everything he owned that was made for metal was sharp, like the surface could be knives whatever. He loved a sharp instrument. So you have an axe or hatchet, what are you carrying that for? Well, in case we see run into a bear or something you know that wants to get eat us, and we'll have a weapon. But so then, you know, I learned how to, you know, navigate and step over logs. And I remember he's like, don't step on the log. Step over the log. You step on the log, you're gonna slip and fall and run one of them, one of them knots right up your butt. You know, you're gonna be in bad shape. You know, just learning all those little things how to navigate. And then he, you know, he taught me how to look for rubs and stuff. He's like, I can show you an elk rub or a buck rub that's twenty years old. I'm like, no, you can't, you cannot. Like he's like, yeah, look at that tree and it's all deformed and stuff, and it's looked like it had been rubbed twenty years ago, but it healed itself. It didn't die. Healed. He's like, yeah, see that one right there. So you learn how to identify all these different things and look at the deer droppings and this is a baby, this is a big buck or a big bowl or whatever, look for scrapes and all that stuff. And man, once I started, you know, seeing all these things kind of come together. It. Man, I really loved being out there. 00:28:33 Speaker 2: Then. 00:28:33 Speaker 1: You know, by the time I was thirteen, I was able to you know, they'd turn me loose, my mom had dropped me off, and I'd go wand around them same places. So I wasn't gonna get lost. I knew the area, and I knew how to get you know, keep track of myself and hunt and stuff. So I you know, today, you know, you think, God, you'd never let a thirteen year old go wander around the woods by themselves. But I did have those fundamentals. You know, you start out at that baseline to where you learn it and then it's not a big deal. So I think, you know, darn it, these kids these days just kind of miss out on that kind of stuff. 00:29:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I can remember my dad, you know, one time showed me the hunt that he wanted me to start doing for elk, like I'm gonna drop you off here, and there was a big, a big long section, a big drainage with no roads in it. They hadn't logged it in thirty years and showed me one time like this is the hunt you're gonna do, you know, over and over and I always kind of joke, not that I'm a good elk hunter, a great elk hunter, but like I was scared to death like at that, like I tell everybody, like that's why I decided to start killing elk as fast as I could and read the sign as good as I could, not dink around because I wanted to kill something and get on the radio and say, hey, guys, this is. 00:29:39 Speaker 2: Where I think I'm at. 00:29:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna flag myself out to the where I think the road is and then I'm not by myself anymore, you know, as a twelve year old kid walking around in what was the big dark woods with a gun and you know, I'm way younger than you, Dirk. But that was about the time like the first little like e treks GPS that started to come out, so I could at least. 00:30:00 Speaker 2: Like I was doing this. 00:30:02 Speaker 3: But as we're driving around the road, I'm like trying to put all these pins. Uh, you know, you couldn't make a trail back then, but I'm like pin the road, pin the road, pin the road. So at least I knew like where I think the road's gonna be. And then you know, like pin the drop off and the pick up location. And you know you kind of wanted to hide that from Dad that you were using it, but yeah, just to keep me safe, Yeah I was. 00:30:22 Speaker 1: I was. 00:30:23 Speaker 3: I ran scared in the woods for the first couple of years until I realized, all right, you're not getting lost every time. You've kind of got this spot figured out. And then you realize, like the woods aren't that big. You can always just walk down to the creek and walk out, and you're eventually gonna hit a bridge or something down at the main line and you're not gonna. 00:30:40 Speaker 2: But yeah, those guys, though, they would they hunted elk. 00:30:43 Speaker 3: They weren't on a certain direction and they would get turned around, and you know, like you said, they they knew where they were at. They would be out all day, you know, they'd grab. They wouldn't even not even payper maps. 00:30:52 Speaker 2: Back then. 00:30:52 Speaker 3: They would maybe have a sandwich in their pack, probably no water, you know, the stuff that they needed to break an elk down. 00:30:58 Speaker 1: And uh, they got your hatchets, they didn't do a hatchet. 00:31:03 Speaker 3: They probably had an old buck knife one ten with the gold ends on it in there, maybe some rope, maybe some fire starter, I doubt it. 00:31:13 Speaker 1: And then like a jan sport type backpack. 00:31:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, just. 00:31:18 Speaker 3: Fifteen dollars floppy backpacks they'd wear and that was it and they weren't prepared. And then you know the pack out stuff is funny. You talk about how tough dads are and like nowadays we've got you know, we've had the luxury of in the past packing stuff out in KAfari is now you know, the new initial scent packs or packing stuff amazingly, the carbon fiber this and that. I remember the old military packboards came out and for those of you that have never seen them, they're like a little kind of a wide U channel and then somebody just stretched canvas across them and like this is what you guys are gonna It's almost like somebody figured out a way to bend plywood in a loop and then stretch canvas over. I'm like, these things are terrible, but you know that's what those guys knew, is like that was their pack boards. 00:32:01 Speaker 2: Just terrible. 00:32:02 Speaker 1: My dad, he's see, he kind of got disenchanted with hunting, you know, because, like I say, he was older than me. But if he couldn't do it like he did back in the forties in fifties, then he didn't want to do it anymore. Right. He was like, man, I don't want to get out there and beat the brush and spook out to some other people. You know, He's like, I want to have a good quality experience all by myself. So he didn't. He just kind of quit hunting. We'd go road hunting, you know, he'd drive around and I'm a hundred percent sure he didn't want to shoot anything. I think it was all about driving around, listening to the radio and eating goodies, you know, eating eating candy bars. But but he would tell me, like, make sure you shoot something it's close to the road. We're not packing anything. We're gonna we're going to load this thing hole because that meat doesn't help you a bit. Every time that meat doesn't help you a bit. And then I start hunting the mountains right the back country, and he would he would just like, do not shoot anything down. Do you know, I don't know what you think you're doing. He would say, I don't know what you think you're doing. That meat won't help you a bit packing it out, and you know he's he had those same stupid old packs. And by the time I first started hunting the back country, we had those, you know, technology got a lot better. We had them old aluminum framed ones with the little droppy down table that you'd the meat shelf thing you'd buy for about forty seven dollars, and they worked like they lasted and worked like they were sold for forty seven dollars. They were complete garbage. My brother called them torture devices. But but so yeah, he but luckily we hunted you know, flat country until I don't know, it was probably early twenties before I started hunting back country. So we loaded a bunch of l hole, you know, with a with a come along in the back of the truck, and you could if you could find an old logging road that would get pretty dann close to wherever he kills him. 00:33:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's uh. 00:33:59 Speaker 3: You know, a lot of our pictures of you know, we didn't take a lot of pictures back then, but you know pictures of the cooler and stuff for yeah half you know elk that are had and split, you know, but they came out in the truck. 00:34:09 Speaker 2: Hole like, well how does that work? 00:34:10 Speaker 3: Well, when you you know, with a bunch of loggers, they'll either one figure out how to set up straps and blocks and tackles and run hay wire. You know, it's like everybody around here has sections of haywire or now they just drive around with the spools in the back of their truck. You know, they mount those big spools a cable in the back of their truck. And these loggers, you know, I was terrible, like you gotta you gotta go on a straight line. You're gonna sidewash everything, and you know, and I'm like I did it once and I think then never again, Like you're not doing that. Those guys, Yeah, those guys were a lot better at running it straight. But I was like on the truck and I just you know, you realize that when you feel like you're moving at any speed, the elk or is. 00:34:48 Speaker 2: Flying up the hill. You know, I remember on the radio like sell your ass down, you. 00:34:52 Speaker 1: Know, but so yell range grandy gear. 00:34:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, they're like the elks jumping ten feet off the ground. Slow down, and you know, we gotta everything out hole for the most part unless they killed them down the timber. And that's when the old green packboards came out. But about twenty years ago these caps and winches or chainsaw winches, yeah, came out and then everybody had those around and so we started packing them out hole that way. So but the one thing that frustrated me is is that crossed over time where my dad and uncles were still getting after it, but I was trying to like make my own spot and what I knew and maybe different from. 00:35:27 Speaker 2: What they knew. 00:35:27 Speaker 3: I'm like, by the time you guys drive all the way home, get your blocks and tackles, do this, and do that, I could have this thing skinned, hung up, corded, and we had already been to the truck before you guys, ever ran a dang piece of cable. So like, it frustrated the heck out of me that it took so long to get these things out when if we would just skin it on the ground, get out of here. Like they always frustrated me about these old timers. It was going to be their way and it was coming out. Keep the meat cleaner. It's gonna taste better. We're not gonna lose as much. I'm like, we don't lose. I'm not arguing with you old timers that you guys all know. 00:36:00 Speaker 1: My brother in law, he was kind of still on that kind of same mode of operation, Randy, you know Randy, And he killed him and his boy killed a bowl one day down on this crap hole and he's like, hey, come and help us get out, and we're gonna call our buddy Ritchie. And he's got a wench on his side beside. We're gonna weinch this thing out of here. I'm like, wow, this thing must be in a really bad place if you're gonna winch it out. So but I grabbed my pack and go down in there. And I get there, I'm like, and he killed Across there's a big steep kind of a ravine, and then across it was where the elk was laying, and half of the elk was laying there, and he had half of a hanging on a on a log that was across the creek cooling, and I'm like, you know, Randy, if I said, I bet, if we just cut them quarters up, we could pack that thing up this steep ravine and be out of here in no time compared to wenching it out. He's like, oh no, no, it's wench This is gonna be good, and like, all right, so start wenching this thing the front half of the elk. I hope he doesn't listen to this, could it be bad? And I told it, but he started winching this elk out of there, like well, the thing was skinned out already, so he laid down like a bed sheet. He got a bed sheet from stolen from his wife's linen closet, Like, hey, Dinah's gonna be pissed at you for using that bit. So they laid this elk on this bed sheet and started wenching it out. Well, if you can imagine how good that worked. The have a bed sheet tore immediately and the meat started getting dirty, and then they had the cable came unhooked and they got about three quarters away out up this ravine and the cable come unhooked and it just tumbled back to the bottom to start over, start over, and I'm like, all right, f this. I run down there and I start, I carve off a hind quarter. I said, I'm going to have this whole back half of this bull packed out before you guys even get halfway that thing halfway drug out. Oh no, no you won't. So not to say I'm superman or anything. It wasn't that. It wasn't that big of a pack. So, you know, hindquarter hip socket, cut it off, all right, packed it up, went down, got the other one packed it up. You know, they hadn't They hadn't quite got that that front half of the all the way up yet by the time you finished. Yeah, And and the hind quarters were nice and clean too. They weren't. They weren't all covered, and it looked like they shake and maked it, you know, with the pine needles and dirt. 00:38:26 Speaker 2: Did you tell Randy told you so by the time he got there. 00:38:28 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't, But he was because he was frustrated. He was so frustrated with the whole winching process. And he's like, hey, man, guys, I really appreciate it. You guys, I'll give you some of this meat. I'm like, I'm good. I don't need a much of dirt and hair and dirty meat. But so thinking back, Jason, can you think of a time like a like a maybe maybe your earliest memory of elk hunting with your dad or hunting in general made none have to be out ay, but just hunting with your dad. 00:39:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'll uh this is this is gonna ellude a little bit. And uh, I think it's been seven years, right, Yeah, I'm forty almost forty two. So back then, Warehouser always played stupid games with gates and access and so I'm gonna paint this picture and hopefully this doesn't change anybody's opinion of me. But you could get to this area, but you weren't supposed to go through this gate for no other reason, Like I said, my dad logged, he knew, you know, where all the equipment was, and there was a gate you weren't supposed to go through. So I can remember it being dark and my one uncle getting out of the truck and he put some gloves on and he goes and rips the sign off of the tree and then we proceed to go through that gate. It was like so like so we're going through you're not supposed to go this way, but you could go around like fifteen minutes. So that was like the start of the morning. 00:39:52 Speaker 2: You know. It was a little kid, You're like, what the heck are we doing? 00:39:55 Speaker 3: Ye and my dad, my dad had been it was pretty close to town and and a real giant forky and for those around here, like some of our blacktails around here, you know, a big fork and horns, a good buck around here, and one that he wanted to go after. And I remember going up to this this clear cut, and uh. 00:40:13 Speaker 2: I'm maybe six years old. 00:40:15 Speaker 3: I just somehow like finally graduated to actually being able to It was like that year between like I was unmanageable and the but I was finally old enough to like probably not getting the way for a deer hunt. 00:40:25 Speaker 1: You quit grapping your pants. 00:40:27 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, finally yeah, yeah, at six, I was a self maintained man at. 00:40:32 Speaker 1: That point life yon butt. 00:40:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:40:35 Speaker 3: And so I can remember we go up there, everything works to plan. My dad sees the buck, shoots it, and then uh, there was actually a road around It's kind of a horseshoe clear cut. There's a road around the other side, actually pretty flat going in there, and I was stoked, like Dad just killed a buck. I was here my first day ever, Like I'm as you know, a big good luck charm and uh. We we get to going and I we're about five feet in off the road on a tree and I get stung in the eye by a bald face hornet. Oh, and I remember this is like goes back to a little bit of like I thought I was dying. But Dad says, you're fine, You'll be fine, and we go get the deer, and I'm just having the hell Like now I hate everything about deer hunting At this point, I don't care that he killed the deer. I'm like six years old. My eye is swelling up like terrible can see. And but you know, he was just like the notion, like rubbed some dirt on it. You'll be fine, You'll be fine. And I remember getting home and my mom just like freaking out, like you didn't bring. 00:41:34 Speaker 2: Him home right away. You finished up the deer. 00:41:37 Speaker 3: You finished you went down to Grandma, you know, down to the meat shop and took care of it and all of that. And that was like my very first hunt I ever got to go on. Remember it very very well because of that and then that same year, but I got to go the night before all season just to scout, you know, looking glass, and it was Grandpa and me and my dad for some reason that had set up that way, and I can remember I had my hand out the window and around home we have wild blackberries and we have the big like Himalayan blackberries, the big thorns, and I had my hand out coming around a corner. And I can remember just like because everybody would go down to Grandma's always, they always call it like the Knights of the round Table. They would meet up the night before like who's going where? Like who saw more than one legal bowl? Like this is a strategy to kill the most amount of balls on opening morning. And I can remember that just laying on the couch, like my hand was just ripped apart. And those were like my first two earliest memories. Terrible stung in the eye by a b and my hand just torched by a BlackBerry bush. 00:42:42 Speaker 1: But uh, I'm surprised. You're just not a bookworm nerd. I mean, you're a nerd, but you're not a bookworm. 00:42:49 Speaker 2: I wasn't. I wasn't. 00:42:51 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know even now if i'd have been tough enough for both of those things not to hurt. But back then I was mad. I didn't want to be out in the woods anymore. This place is terrible. 00:42:59 Speaker 2: It hurt. 00:43:01 Speaker 1: Both those things would be terrible. Oh I got I've had like a BlackBerry thorn barely get me, and I thought I was gonna die. 00:43:07 Speaker 3: I drugged my hand right through like old growth blackberries, and uh, just terrible. 00:43:13 Speaker 2: But no, those were the very first two memories. 00:43:18 Speaker 3: And then yeah, is it wasn't so my my family dynamic is is all over the place because I had a younger brother too, So like when I finally started hunting, my brother was finally able to start going out. So I did a lot of my hunting with Uh. I called my uncle Brad, but it's really my dad's cousin. It's kind of like the sixth brother of the group. And then I also got to hunt with my grandpa and grandma quite a bit, so I just never knew where, you know, I can remember my you know, hunting with Grandma and Grandpa was like an old Alabama tape and the tape deck cranked and you know, Grandma and Grandpa, you know, just thinking around driving in the woods, and Grandpa always tried to get me to shoot his deer well before I was supposed to be able to hunt. So that was that's why I liked to go with Grandpa. He was a little more patient my dad at that time when he finally started to like me. Before this time he didn't like me. But now that I was old enough for Grandpa, I felt like Grandpa was like he'd go over over and beyond and be super patient. Why he couldn't get the deer in the scope, and yeah he would, Yeah, I gotta spend a lot of time, but yeah, first time with Dad is being stung in the eye by a bald face hornet and then hands through the briers. 00:44:33 Speaker 1: How about you, man, man, I didn't. Mine were actually a pretty good experience to a degree, so my first time to go. Then then we went hunting close to home. There walked up just weird deer hunting, you know, walking these old these old logging roads, and I know my dad was probably like, I take this kid hunting. This is going to be a mess. That's why he quit fishing, you know, is because he had sons. And then he said he always said, he's like, well I quit fishing when I had sons, because all I do is spend my time on tangling their lines and tying tying lures back on their line for them, because you know how kids are, You get hung up and snap off your lure every five minutes. But so I can imagine he was like, Okay, where do I got to take this kid? So we went out, and I remember exactly all these places where he took me. It's so vivid in my mind. I don't know how old I was. I'd probably say it probably seven or eight years old. And the neighbors had had a yard sale and there was a couple of bows over there, So and I bought a couple of these little fiberglass bows. One was one was probably like a twenty five pound bow and the other one was like a thirty five pound bow. Anyway, I could pull at the twenty five pound bow. So I got a couple of couple of cedar arrows, and I'm I'm going to go hunting. So I packed that stupid thing around and we saw deer and every time, you know, you kind of se him about one hundred yards away or whatever and be like, hey, let me, hey, let's get close let me shoot one with this bow. And he's like, no, No, I'm like, why don't you shoot He's like they're too far away, Like that's not that far He's like, And my dad he was like, Nope, if you're not close enough to shoot him in the head, we're not shooting him. That That was his like, if he didn't shoot it in the head, then he was not going to do it. I don't want to waste any meat and so and but then again back to the things like I don't know if he'd really wanted to kill a deer, you know, he just like walked around. Yeah, I think he just wanted to walk around the woods with a with a gun and try to keep me from being And I remember him be like, be quiet, you know, you're stop, don't step on those sticks. You know. The whole time he was, you know, telling me this and that and stop stop stepping this, and pick up your feet and don't don't clump your feet, you know, and be quiet and walk you know, heal the toe and you know, showing me how to how to how to walk quietly. And he was pretty patient. I guess on that trip, I felt like he was pretty patient. But anyway, we saw deer. He didn't shoot anything. But man, I remember that it was a beautiful evening and we hunted till dark and walked out and it was it was awesome. Is a good experience. And then the other one we were hunting. His preferred mode of hunting was road hunting. Drive around the pick up and I don't know why he got shot this deer, because I mean, we used to see there were so many deer. They're not that many of these days, but in this area. But man, you drive around one corner, there's deer. You drive around another corner, there's deer. Anyway, Well, he shoots this. I think the deer was just dumb enough for him to jump out of the truck, walk over the edge of the road and shoot it. Shot this dough and we get over there and he starts gutting it. Well, he starts gutting it, pulls the liver out and hands it to me. He's like, here, hold this, and I'm me immediately like, ew, let me know, yuck. You want me to hold that. No, I'm not holding that yucky. You know, I'm a kid, I'm squeamish, right, And he gets a little bit grumpy all this. So I have to hold this liver in it, you know, for a little kid, it's it's a pretty big object and slimy and slippery and warm and yucky feeling. So I had to hold this liver the whole time, and I'm just like, you know. 00:48:23 Speaker 2: Pouping about it. 00:48:23 Speaker 1: And anyway, we get good done and he drags a deer to the truck and loads it up. So but I did not want to hold the deer liver, and I was kind of like, I almost it almost had some PTSD, Like I didn't even want to touch guts or liver for a long for a long time, and it was like I'd think about shooting a deer some days. I don't want to have to touch all those yucky guts. That's gross, that's yucky. And then I don't know, somehow, after I got my first deer, it didn't seem to matter. It's like, man, I get them guts out of there and cut them up. Wow, look at that. But that was that was my first couple of memories of hunting with my dad and my brother. And you said, you know, yeah, your brother was younger. My brothers were older, and my brother is just older than me. Lance and him and I used to hunt a lot together too. He take me hunting, and he was kind of grumpy, like my dad, you know a little bit like hey, you know, pick up your feet. Yeah, he correct, Yeah, trying to teach me how to be quiet and hunting. But we hunted a lot as a kid and then through school and later on in life there, but had a lot of good times. 00:49:35 Speaker 3: Right now, I know I don't want to be that guy, but I feel like the tables have turned now when we hunt, Like I've yelled at my not yelled, but like had to get strict with my dad, like I said, don't get up yet. Like we were in Colorado a couple years ago. I had drawn a deer tag and I had, you know, you just experience and getting better and reading, like we had bumped a few deer below us, but we knew they were going to come out in the open, and I'm like, well, don't get up, like we don't want to spook them the second time, Like just they're gonna come out in that opening. 00:50:01 Speaker 2: Just bed down and get on your gun and. 00:50:02 Speaker 3: I'll tight And so my dad can't see him, so he's up looking all over and I'm like, Dad, now they've seen us again. 00:50:09 Speaker 2: Like I just get back on the gun, you know. 00:50:11 Speaker 1: So I feel like, so now you're correcting your yeah, yeah, like. 00:50:14 Speaker 2: The tables have turned, Like I'm like, what are you doing? 00:50:17 Speaker 3: Not that not that you don't know what you're doing, but you just did what I said don't do And now like I told you, so, now you got shoot at a deer. We have to hope he stops again. Ultimately killed it. But it's like I I catch myself like, don't be don't be a jerk, Like he's the one that taught you everything, but what. 00:50:32 Speaker 2: Are you doing? 00:50:34 Speaker 1: Well? My after my first year of bow hunting, then my dad's like, wow, that's because he was always like anti bow hunting. Them damn bow hunters. He used to say that all damp flippers. Yeah, yeah, all they do is wound stuff. And then I and my first year, I was lucky and got and killed a bowl the first year and he's like, oh, you know that's kind of cool. And you know, I tell I'd go hunting. I'd go hunting every day of season, even after I killed. I'd go with my buddy Randy, my brother in law. Now but we're best friends in high school and so we kept on hunting. You're trying to get him an elk, you know, every morning before school, every evening after school. And I would tell my dad all the stories of calling in bulls and messing with them, and he kind of got the bug too. So he ended up buying a bow, learned how to shoot it. So opening day September, and that was September first, It opened on September first. Back then was nineteen ninety. He he went with us on opening day and bulls were bugling and we chased him around and you know, and he was we got back to truck, I'm like, hat, did you get pretty excited? Was that fun? He's like, ah, yeah, it was okay. You know, he was one of those guys he wouldn't want anybody to know he was excited about anything. Yeah, or had a good time, you know, pretty. 00:51:57 Speaker 2: Pretty something's okay, it's it's pretty awesome. 00:52:00 Speaker 1: Pretty stoic. He thought it sucked, could have been like stupid, you know. Yeah, yeah, he was pretty stoic. Yeah, it was okay. And then we get we get to the truck to leave, and he's like, where's my keys? He couldn't find his keys, well, we could hear bulls and we could see bulls bugling from the truck, and so it was exciting right off the bat. Right, couldn't find his keys, well, he misplaced the keys. He just kind of threw him in the in his toolbox in the back of the truck, you know. So we started high and low, and he thought he'd lost him out in the woods, and here they were right there. It's like, oh, I guess you did get a little excited, didn't you know? He opened it up and got his bow out and threw the keys in there. 00:52:42 Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, my dad's first archery all hunt was yeah, they don't they had really they would scout and they would hunt, but they didn't have to scout as like scout scout. They were just in the woods driving the crummies to the logs, you know whatever. And so Dad, when I started, I was the first in the family to pick up a bow and get the hunt in September. Everything all this was always an early November elk cunt. That's how they knew elk muzzloader a little bit. But our muzzloater season used to be laid enough in October no bugling, nothing, So it was really just and so they didn't realize that there were that many elk in the woods, that many elk congregated in certain spots. And I had kind of learned to walk in area. Where got my dad a nice bike back then was twenty years ago though, so you know, when my old man was still in good shape in his forties, probably about the same age I was, and we started just riding by legal bulls after legal bowl. He's like, what are we doing? We you know, because I grew up, you kill every legal bowl that you can. I said, well, we can always come back to these, Like there's no bowhunters around back then, there was nobody bow hunting, Like I'm going to find this big one I've been watching all right, all right, but I could just remember it like it chapped his ass that we were riding by twenty legal bulls to go find something that was further away from the truck. And yeah, he just he couldn't wrap his head around what the heck we were doing out there. 00:53:54 Speaker 1: My dad would always say before I'd go hunt, and he's like, hey, now listen. He would just like set me down, like like this is real talk. Listen, and I knew it was coming. Every time he's like, if he can shoot a real nice dry cow, don't don't, don't shoot any those stinking bulls. He's like, they got they're real pissy, you know, they piss all over their bellies, they're all stinky. Shoot shoot a real nice dry cow, dry one. If he can't, you know, a cow that didn't have a calf. If he can, because oh those are the best eat I'm like, okay, I'm I'd act like, oh yeah, that's exactly what we do. And then I'd go kill a bull. He'd be like, oh, you got one of them damn pissy bulls again. Oh he was happy that you could tell he was happy, you know, but that would be his comment every time another one of those pissy bulls, and his when we we we we'd got the thing. He's like, all right, here's how you got to take care of these bulls. And he would cut off from like the main, like like the shaggy part of the main as far as the piss would go. He would make a rug, basically skin out a rug that would go all the way down the belly, down. 00:55:03 Speaker 2: To the. 00:55:05 Speaker 1: Down to the frankin beans right, and he would take off that big rug you know, and skin that off first. That way there's no piss that would get on the meat whatsoever. 00:55:14 Speaker 2: You know. 00:55:18 Speaker 1: Pretty funny. 00:55:19 Speaker 3: No, I mean we did. I think we accomplished that. I guess our hands are probably in that that area. 00:55:25 Speaker 2: But yeah, you pulled away. But that's funny. 00:55:27 Speaker 1: Well well yeah, well well if you think about it. So we're usually typically you know, how many times bowls have you gutted lately? 00:55:34 Speaker 2: And there's usually just none belly stays on. We don't Yeah, take that, I don't touch that. 00:55:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's funny. So the first bowl I brought home that I ever did that gutlass meth and I was explaining it to him. He's like, hmm, I don't know about that gut him. I'm like, no, you And I told him and I showed him like, yeah, you know all that pissy belly, he's nowhere near the meat, you know, explain it, you know, he cut off the meat. So then he eats a package of the meat. He's like, yeah, I don't know. I think you might have did something wrong, but not getting that ding this meat taste pit gaming. I'm like, no, it's all in your head, you know. 00:56:12 Speaker 3: No, it's it's funny you mentioned that like not only well not necessarily that much like getting the rug off, but like you didn't have time to take a picture of that. Deery just killed because the guts were of the utmost important. If you didn't have the guts out in five seconds, it was gonna ruin every I'm like, I don't. 00:56:29 Speaker 2: Yeah we did. We weren't throat, we didn't cut throats. 00:56:32 Speaker 3: But I'm like, back then, for like Christmas, I would always want like the Moss Back DVDs or the you know, the Steve Chapel deep whatever they were, like the people that. 00:56:41 Speaker 2: Were hunting the giant meal dear, And I'm like. 00:56:43 Speaker 3: But these people shoot something and they instantly say, we're gonna leave it till tomorrow. And then now that I know what, I know they some of these people might not even ate the elk. But like, these people are leaving stuff overnight all the time, why do I get the guts out in five minutes? And now that I know, it was just like an old, an old school way of thinking, like the gots, you gotta get. 00:57:00 Speaker 2: Him out right away, I get them away. 00:57:01 Speaker 1: Them things will go bad. Which is funny because I hunted with my mom probably more than my dad ever, you know, because she would he was always working, right, but she would always take me hunt and drop me off or sometimes she'd go along. And my mom always had a camera with her. She's taking pictures all the time. In fact, if you look at pictures of my dad, he's just like, oh, the put the camera away. But she's like, okay, everybody look in. So my dad he would be like, he wouldn't even look at the camera, you know, I kind of look off this way or that way. You want to look at the camera because she was taking so many pictures all the time. But the good thing was is having her around hunting with me. She could take a picture of me if I killed something. So I do have a few pretty decent field photos of me with stuff I killed because my mom was there with it with a camera, so. 00:57:51 Speaker 3: Not me, I don't think until I was way out of high school. Well I have a picture that isn't it the meat shed of just us, like the heads tipped up, you know, whoever killed that opening morning or whatever. Everything is just nothing in the field until you know way later. 00:58:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, which sucks. But so, how how tall is your dad? 00:58:14 Speaker 3: My dad, my real dad or the guy that claims to be the guy that I grew up with. Now I don't my dad is uh and this is a generous five foot eight, five foot nine. 00:58:25 Speaker 1: Okay, how tall are you? 00:58:27 Speaker 2: Six foot four? Wow? 00:58:30 Speaker 3: So I mean this is a Father's Day post, but maybe there should be like a Dad's Day because I don't know who my father is. Maybe I think I might either got mixed up in the at the hospital or the milkman may have been six' four plus or minus a little. Bit but, no me and my, dad my great grandpa was a big, guy but like nobody really in Our like it was. Weird my generation popped up and me and my cousins are six, three six four and the big, dudes yeah my my dad, uncles you, know one of them six foot but nobody's. Really but LIKE i, said that's kind of the running, joke is like we talk About Father's, day but, YEAH i just call you dad because you raised. 00:59:09 Speaker 2: Me i'm not so. 00:59:12 Speaker 1: SURE i. DON'T i don't look in the mirror and see see my. Dad everybody everybody looks at me, now especially now because my, dad you, know he had gray hair and dray everything for a long. Time now that my face is gray and, white then they're, like, man you look LIKE i look like like a lot like your. Dad but my dad was five, eight you, know five ten, maybe But i'm six, one you, know always quite a bit. Bigger he was kind of a skinny, guy And i'm not. 00:59:39 Speaker 2: Skinny, yeah that's another THING i failed to. Mention i'm big. Boned, yeah we have we're different. 00:59:44 Speaker 3: There my dad's one hundred and sixty pounds soko wet And i'm two hundred and sixty pounds. 00:59:49 Speaker 2: Dry. 00:59:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, man but, WELL i don't know if we ever figured out whose dad was, tougher but sounds like we both had some pretty cool. Dads. 00:59:58 Speaker 3: YEAH i, think LIKE i said at the, beginning not to it was more of a joke to talk. About BUT i think IT'S i think it's safe to say that the older, generation the further you go, back the tougher people, got and especially you know in that that, life you, know, war, marines, logging just forces and lack of. TECHNOLOGY i think we can all say that those guys were tougher. 01:00:21 Speaker 1: Than, nails tougher than. Us yeah for, Sure, yeah, sure, well, man it's great to catching up a little bit. HERE i just got home from a black bear hunt In alaska here last, week and IF i had one word to Describe alaska and bear, hunting a black bear, HUNTING i could sum it up with the word. Wet it was really wet in the, outfitter and the guide, said, yeah it was uncommonly. Wet they're, like it rains a lot up, here but it rained for nine days. STRAIGHT a couple of days it cleared off and we had a little bit of, sunshine but then it would go right back to rain. 01:00:59 Speaker 2: Again did you start to build a? ARC i? 01:01:02 Speaker 1: DID i, DID, i but but there's not a lot of where we were. At there wasn't a lot of big, trees so we had to nail together a lot of little ones and then you, know rent out of. Nails but. 01:01:12 Speaker 2: Gotcha. 01:01:13 Speaker 3: Yeah we we finished up the bear hunt In, idaho and then on the on The dad's, Theme Washington draws came out yesterday and nobody knew anything but my. Dad so my dad drew his first quality deer tag after fifteen years of me putting him. In he drew and he's, like what unit DID i? DRAW? I, said, WELL i put you in for. Here where's? That so that's that's that's where we're at in this modern, day modern age relationship between me and my dad and. Hunting he's, like here's my credit, card here's how you log. In just put me in for what you think the right terrain and the right type of hunt. 01:01:44 Speaker 2: Is and, yeah so, YEAH i get. 01:01:46 Speaker 3: Them going to try to fall is getting pretty, busy but going to try to squeeze that in between My montana deer trip and My New mexico ol. Somewhere he's got the season he drew is pretty liberal from like the third to the twenty fifth, dates so should have quite a bit of time in there to to get him. 01:02:01 Speaker 1: Out. Cool, Cool i'll be excited about. That that'll be. Fun all, Right, WELL i think we'll wrap her up and, uh we'll catch everybody on the next. 01:02:12 Speaker 2: Episode take. Care m. 01:02:19 Speaker 1: M m hm hm. 01:02:29 Speaker 3: Hmm