00:00:09 Speaker 1: From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is Cols we can Review with Ryan cal Callahan. 00:00:17 Speaker 2: Now here's Cal. Okay, another special drop of Cal's week in review this week going back to our theme of exploring all these conservation groups, because the number one annoying email that I get is Hey, what conservation group should I join? And I could give you the easy answers and serve it to you like spoiled children, but that's not the point of this podcast. I want you to learn and make decisions on your own, so those decisions have greater weight. Plus you can only blame yourself. I'm trying to make active participants in the concert vation community here. Okay. That's that's the whole reason that you got to put up with ads and my oms and oz and breathing into the microphone and things like that, which honestly you don't hear much of because fill the engineer as a magician. Anyway, this week, everybody knows that I, you know, interact with and talk about Pheasants Forever as an organization a lot. Well, this week we have a Montana local representative of Pheasants Forever, Hunter Van Doncil, doncil. 00:01:36 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, perfect, you got it. 00:01:40 Speaker 2: Okay, Well this is a podcast, so you're gonna have to speak up. Hunter. You can correct me where it's necessary or even when it's not. But uh so, I worked with Hunter on one topic that we'll get into today, which is wildcat Bend, and I've also bugged the heck out of him on a bunch of other cool things that fall underneath his job description, and we'll get into that as well, because it's resources that you should be engaging with Pheasants Forever on that will benefit you or your neighbors, and it's awesome stuff. So, Hunter, why don't you introduce yourself? Who do you work for? What do you do? Yeah? You bet? 00:02:28 Speaker 1: I'm Hunter van Donsel. I'm the state coordinator for Pheasants Forever in Montana and Wyoming. I supervise our staff of awesome biologists and habitat specialists across the two state region that I work in. I lead our strategic habitat initiatives, work on grants, work with our awesome partners across the state to try to get the biggest bang for our buck in upland habitat conservation, and really make sure that we improve the upland experiences across the states that I work. 00:03:00 Speaker 2: And when you say improve upland experiences and states that you work in, and you work for Pheasants Forever, so obviously you mean releasing a bunch of pheasants out there so people can shoot them, right. 00:03:12 Speaker 1: That is not what I mean at all. We Pheasants Forever is the habitat organization. We focus on improving the habitats that upland birds and other wildlifes thrive on and need to survive, and focus on making thriving wild populations of upland game birds in the States. So we focus on all the habitat needs that those species require, like nesting cover, winter cover, brood cover, things that make those species thrive on the ground for the long term persistence of those species. So no typically does not include releasing birds. We're focused on impacting the grass and the shrubs and things that make those birds survive. 00:03:55 Speaker 2: And if you're like a white tail hunter, a mule deer hunter, even consider throwing a buck towards Pheasants Forever because what does a bird organization do for us? 00:04:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, good habitat is good for a variety of species. You know, the beautiful thing about pheasants and a lot of other upland birds is that, you know, they're pretty generalists in the species or the habitat requirements that they need. They need healthy grasses, they need intact landscapes, and those are the same things that are big game species required to. There's a ton of overlap between whitetail habitat and pheasant habitat, between sharp and tail habitat and mule deer habitat, elk habitat and sage grouse habitat. I mean, the list goes on, and so we're really looking at, especially in Montana and Wyoming, improving habitat that's relevant to the state that really impacts what people in those states care about. So in Montana, it's a variety of things. It's big game and birds, and they all intersect really nicely. 00:04:56 Speaker 2: That's great. I just like to bring that stuff up because you know, you got a big ditch chicken as your mascot, right so, and a bunch of other fun names for pheasants. But there's a big misnomer out there that keeps getting brought up. You know, maybe not as often anymore, but it's like, well, I don't really care about pheasants or put in take. I don't care about put and take, you know those types of things. Do you still come across that as an employee these days? 00:05:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah. And you know, having the big old rooster as our logo definitely puts us in a box, which we definitely work on pheasant habitat. That is something we do, but we also do a lot more and habitat that's good for pheasants is good for a lot of other species. And depending on the state you're in, we try to be relevant and so in Montana we're focusing a lot on intact landscapes. You know, Montana has some awesome grasslands and sagebrush habitat that we're focusing on that's relevant to the state. We dabble in some forest grouse projects and things like that. So we're really focused on upland experiences as a whole, especially in the Western US, and focusing on improving those things that have upland birds in them, but also impact you know, communities and sportsmen in a broader component. So yeah, we definitely hear you know, why do you care about pheasants? And you know, we care a lot about pheasants, but we also care about great habitat that's vital for sportsmen, for communities, for agriculture and everything above. 00:06:33 Speaker 2: So when you talk about caring for these different communities, what programs does PF have in place that that gets that done. 00:06:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, across the nation, we employ over one hundred and seventy five biologists across the nation, and these folks are experts in wildlife habitat and conservation programs and agriculture and so there a lot of them are really focused on working with private landowners to figure out site specific habitat management plans that meet wildlife objectives and agricultural objectives. So those point those folks are where the rubber meets the road, and they really provide some great expertise that helps get wildlife habitat on the ground. We also provide direct funding for projects that improve access to public land, purchase land for habitat and for access as well. So it's a really variety of different things. Staff that provide expertise, funding for programs, advocacy, things like that. 00:07:38 Speaker 2: Awesome and yeah, one that you and I know, well, here is a wildcat bend in Montana. So the Lower Yellowstone something that we did some fundraising for through our land access initiative. And I mean even right now, mind blowing that chunk of property like that is, you know, marching towards public hunting access. Yeah. 00:08:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, that wildcat is a great example, and I want to thank you cal for and the mediator folks for that. I mean, it's amazing to get that one across the finish line. That is a three hundred and twenty eight acre piece that we supported a Montana Fishlife and Parks in the acquisition. That property closed in January, so fish Life and Parks officially owns it right now. It's open to boat in access and still working out some details on the road in the parking lot, but open to boat in access and three hundred and twenty eight acres for that piece that fits into a larger two thousand acre kind of complex that's brand new public access. It's a it's a really cool property. It's got this awesome cottonwood gallery, some great winter cover, and quite a few birds. Saw a lot of white tail turkeys out there. It's really just an awesome property that it is really going to benefit the public. 00:09:02 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean river frontage, right, I mean real riverfrontedge, old growth trees and variety, not a one trick pony. 00:09:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's cool. I mean that river comes down and it bends right around this property and it's it's cool. Yeah. If folks are in that area, i'd encourage you to go check out those wildcat pieces. They're they're pretty special. 00:09:29 Speaker 2: But you know that wasn't Pheasants Forever per se. It was Pheasants Forever Build a Wildlife Area program. Can you tell us what that is and how that fits into Pheasants Forever as a whole. 00:09:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, you bet, you're exactly right. 00:09:50 Speaker 2: Cal. 00:09:51 Speaker 1: That's part of our Build a Wildlife Area program, which is our flagship public access and acquisition program across the nation. And so through that program, we work with funders, with federal and state partners really to pool resources and really acquire more public land. You know, it's a nationwide program, and we've done some awesome projects in Minnesota, across the Midwest and really out in Bob White Country as well. And so these are really you know, a variety of projects, but typically the ones I've seen is we're really helping a state or federal agency acquire these properties and so whether they need funding to get those over the finish line, if they need somebody to hold and manage grants, if the timing, you know, the federal process can take years and years to get a project acquired, and so oftentimes we'll step in and front the money, make the timelines go quicker, and make sure those projects get across the finish line. And so in twenty twenty three alone, nationwide, we've helped acquire over fourth thousan acres just in twenty twenty three and really had an incredible list of partners nationwide that have made these happen. So we're really looking at gearing up that build a Wildlife Area program, looking for support and looking for awesome projects. 00:11:16 Speaker 2: Heck yeah, access and habitat habitat and access to it. And I do want to circle back because I feel like we skipped it a little bit and it's a point that needs to be hammered home. Why not just introducing pheasants, just throwing pheasants out on the landscape. Why isn't that the approach versus you know, the slow firmer approach of planting, curating grasses, forbes, brush, et cetera. 00:11:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a variety of ways to come into that you know, discussion. And for me, you know, I really look at return on investment. I see stocking program that their intent is to increase populations as being kind of a welfare like program. Right, You're just putting it out there with really no likelihood of success. Those stock birds over ninety percent of them are going to die within the first six months. They're not going to make it through winter. It really becomes a put and take sort of program which just has ethical considerations, and really the long term benefit of that is really not there. And so if you focus on that long term approach of having healthy habitats that can support populations, that's really where the rubber meets the road. And so you know, there's certain very few places where you can you know, start populations, but really you need that habitat to be there. That habitat has a carrying capacity and you can't just pour in extra birds to augment that population. And so habitat is really the only way to increase your local populations and really have that long term wild and thriving population that really you know, makes up the experiences that we really care about. You know, for me, why I love upland hunting and and outdoors is really the feeling that I get out there the wild places, that I experience experiences in them with my daughter and my friends. And it's really more about that as a whole and not just pulling the trigger. And I think that's what Pheasants Forever is really about, is improving those habitats for those birds and thereby improving the experiences of sportsmen to go out there and enjoy that. So but really the return on investment, I think it's much more cost benefit to improve the habitat, even though it might take longer. 00:13:46 Speaker 2: How long would we have to wait? Like what's the ability for a wild bird to you know, find new habitat? Like how far will they travel? 00:13:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know a pheasants home range is typically pretty small. But the one thing about upland birds is their reproductive potential. They are you know, they're putting all their resources in you know, new chicks and nesting. Right. They don't live generally that long, but a hen can really put out a lot of young birds if the conditions are right. And so if you have habitat that gets them to survive over winter and get them to produce healthy nests. That's going to survive. I mean, you can really multiply a population quickly and so it doesn't have to take that long. You know, weather plays into it in a big way. But really what I'm thinking about is how can we get more birds to survive overwinter, and how can we get birds to produce more nests and so more grass that's undisturbed in the nesting season, more thick cover for birds to hold over on. You can really see population increases year by year if the conditions are right. 00:14:59 Speaker 2: That's cool, that's cool. Yeah, it's a wild thing we all want to think about. Like that old kg rooster that is outsmarting us, right, or that's the inevitable reason that we missed it or walked past it or the dog didn't pick it up right away. Is it's this old man that's seeing a lot of seasons. But what is the average life expectancy? 00:15:25 Speaker 1: Oh, it's not very long. I mean most of the birds that you're killing out there year to year are young of the year. I mean they're young. And so a two year old bird, you know, in his second fall season has been around the block, right, And so I don't have a great number on the exact average life expectancy, but it's not very long. I mean, most of those birds that folks are killing are juvenile, and so an old bird is hard to come by, and the bulk of what's out there in the fall is coming from that nesting season. That's why weather and habitat is so important, and year to year it can change. You know, We've had some great years in Montana and this year's shaping up to be pretty good too. But yeah, they don't live that long a couple of seasons. 00:16:06 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's interesting too because like when I've my very first pheasant hunt, I remember my grandpa being like, well, kids can still shoot a hen, right, and you know, no, no, no, no, But I mean this was I guess not you know, all that long ago, right, I'm forty, It would have been, you know, twenty six years ago, twenty seven years ago, and but my grandpa like kids can shoot a hand and having to dig through the rags and make sure we're you know. But there was that idea that I think, and you may know this better than I do, that the leniency on shooting a hen was like an enforcement slash hunter recruitment problem, Like you know, if we make it illegally illegal, then a kid's going to make a mistake and we don't want to have them get a ticket. But now nobody ever thinks about that. It's like if you're hunting wild birds, not like purely on a put and take dog training situation, it is, you know, just not fathomable that you could kill a hen. 00:17:21 Speaker 1: Right, right, I mean it's roosters only, and some of that's the beauty of a pheasant, right you can tell pretty easily, should be really easily. You know, sometimes they trick you, but you know, you can tell the difference between a rooster and a hen, and that really is great because the hen is what matters for populations, right. Roosters you know too much. Rooster's survival can actually be a weird thing for competition over you know, food resources in the late winter and early springing and different things like that. So you really want the hens to survive, you know, sharp tail sage grouse, mountain grouse. You can't tell on the wing and so there, you know, it's a different situation, but yeah, it's right now. It's yeah, you wouldn't you wouldn't fathom thinking about shooting a hand out in the in the wilds for sure. 00:18:12 Speaker 2: Right, And it's as long as you uh see those hens out there, I mean, there's there's hope. You're like, Okay, yeah, this is a great spot. Maybe not today, but there will be birds here in the future, right yeah, which, yeah, which is cool. So yeah, I want to talk about the other thing that I've bugged you on in the past, and and this falls into something people don't consider pheasants forever on the private side of the fence has a really robust infrastructure of help, whether that's farm bill implementation, farm bill program im implementation, or like I was bugging you on, was trying to look at some properties that came up for sale that I could potentially build in easements to basically like my business plan if I could actually muster up the courage and financial strength to actually buy a place, right. 00:19:23 Speaker 1: So yeah, can you. 00:19:25 Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about that, you bet? 00:19:28 Speaker 1: You bet. So I'll talk more specifically to my team in Montana, but this is true across the whole nation, and so I really see my staff in Montana as the one stop shop for a landowner to come in there for support, and so that support can be really broad in nature. It could be support on you know, habitat specifics, you know what's going to get more birds across the winner, you know, things like that. But it can also be support with funding for specific projects or for easements or you know, really anything that a landowner might need where there's an intersection between wildlife habitat and so, yeah, my folks are the one stop shop. They're often sitting in natural Resource Conservation Service offices, so they have really the power of the entire four billion dollar farm bill at their disposal, where they're really working hand in hand with producers to work on cost share programs for a variety of different projects. They also have access to Fishlife and Parks programs. Fishlife and Parks has an awesome upland game bird program as well as a migratory bird program that works with private landowners that has funding and habitat and access. There's also a suite of other conservation partners like Ducks, Unlimited, World, Wildlife Fund, Nature Conservancy, the list goes on that have different grants and programs, and we really have a great connection with those conservation organizations and really can you know they can work with one individual develop that relationship and that Pheasence Forever staff person connects all the dots and comes up with a site specific plan that has funding and meets the goals of both the producer as well as wildlife that we care about. 00:21:19 Speaker 2: Amazing resource, so amazing that certainly the people of my father grandfather's generation just wouldn't even consider it being an option, Like it's too good to be true. You and I talked about a place where we could have potentially even gotten machinery that I wouldn't have to own or operate out there to do some improvements if if it would have worked right, and it's just like really wild, really wild. So is that the biggest barrier to entry, the biggest barrier to uh start the conversation is is just awareness? 00:22:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say. So. You know, a lot of the you know, the private landowners we work with, most of them have a full time, you know, multimillion dollar agricultural enterprise right that takes the vast amount of their energy. And so when they often have the intentions of really wanting to improve their operation their wildlife habitat, and the energy that it takes to come up with a site specific plan can be really intensive. Programs are complex, have rules, and we provide somebody that's going to get to know them, get to know their property, that knows all the programs and opportunities out there and really just connects all the dots. So it's awareness, it's time, it's relationships, and we're looking to reduce all of those barriers for landowners as well as public lands agencies to get those habitat improvements on the ground. 00:23:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that I mean. And to talk about like another misnomer is you can you know, you can raise wildlife or you can raise cash crops, right, Like, are you going to make a living by supporting wild animals on your on your place too? Sure? 00:23:22 Speaker 1: So in our opinion, agriculture and wildlife go hand in hand, right, And there's so many overlaps between a profitable agricultural operation and wildlife, especially in the grasslands in Montana. You know, there's common saying that you'll hear from organizations. What's good for the bird is good for the herd, And that's something we definitely believe in, and so we do a lot of projects that benefit livestock operations as well as wildlife. We work with producers on sustainable crop rotations. You know, you know, for example, in the Golden Triangle in Montana, wheat fallow is a pretty typical crop rotation, right. Well, if you start just adding in maybe another crop instead of that fallol period where it's just you start adding in some field borders or different things, it can really make a big difference for wildlife. But it can also add in some diversity to an operation. It can add in a new income stream if you graze those at different times. So there's a lot of things there that you can do to add value to both you know, your cash crop as well as your wildlife habitats. 00:24:28 Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, and again you're going to have if you're in this position, you don't have to spend all your time thinking about it. You can you can reach out and have some resources at your fingertips that are going to be paid to think about that stuff in large part for you. 00:24:47 Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yep. We provide that. Try to make it as easy as we can, and then you know, try to get people over the hump. Trying those new things can be risky. You know, the knowledge that it's new, right, and so we can often find those cost share incentives to make it worth their while to try it and then hopefully adopt it into the long term without that funding into the future. So really try to lower that barrier to entry as low as possible. 00:25:14 Speaker 2: And these folks can reach out to you even if they're not in pheasant country and even if they don't really have pheasants on the mind. 00:25:25 Speaker 1: Definitely, we care about Montana, we care about the states we work in, We care about all wildlife. We're here to help improve wildlife habitat. It's as general as that. In Montana, we have a biologist covering thirty seven of our fifty six counties, so huge coverage area. Other states, especially in the Midwest, have a lot of resources at that county level, and we're just interested in helping regardless of what your goals are, if there's overlap for wildlife habitat and we can get a win for birds and wildlife we're in. 00:26:00 Speaker 2: And one thing that's really hard for people to get a hold of is how far Pheasants Forever and a lot of nonprofits can stretch a buck or rather multiply a dollar a donation can you go into, like maybe in the build a Wildlife Area program, how some of those donations were were matched and multiplied for a larger impact. 00:26:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really incredible what Pheasants Forever and other organizations can do with with leveraging funding. And so I'll give you a couple of different examples. For build a wildlife area, you know, that specific project, the math gets complicated, but we were able to leverage private donor dollars over a one to one match. So we doubled each private dollar that came in with either you know, state dollars, other granting efforts, other nonprofit involvement, and really rallied that together. For my Montana budget, I typically take you know, chapter dollars and donor dollars around seventy thousand a year, and I turned that into about three million dollars in staff budget and project budget that hits the ground. So that's a huge increase on dollars. You know, when you give a dollar to Pheasants Forever or me and Montana, I'm taking that for sure and multiplying it by two right away, and then it get the math gets a little weird. But then I'm rolling that momentum into other federal opportunities and probably leveraging things at more about a four to one ratio. So multiply that one dollar by four for my Montana program, So we're really efficient. 00:27:51 Speaker 2: To that federal piggy bank with nothing. You have to you have to come in with some skin in the game, correct, Yes. 00:28:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, a private non federal dollar is worth for right, and so we go into those federal and state opportunities, provide that match and are able to really secure that. And I think it's really important, you know, depending on what your interests are, you know, we're able to take those larger overarching federal objectives and really gear them towards the things our members care about, which are upland habitats and wildlife. And so without us coming in and helping direct those s federal dollars into the places we care about it, who knows where they're going to go. You know, they're hopefully going to go to something good, but we're really ensuring that they go to improving upland game bird habitats and habitat in the states that we work in. So it's really important, I think, to have that skin in the game. And there's a lot of conservation organizations that do that, but it's really powerful to have those private dollars in the system that unlock these huge federal and state opportunities. 00:29:03 Speaker 2: Ducks Unlimited gave me a new version of one of their original campaigns, and it's a bucket duck. Right, So you put this jar all over the place where people walk in and out, and they can drop a dollar in the jar, and that dollar creates a duck. And it used to be like a diamond duck or a Nickela duck or something like that. And I think that's just like an important thing for folks to recognize, is it can be a pretty darn low donation. And you know, there's I'll just say it, frankly, there's some jackassory that happens at banquets. There's some ego measuring contests that go down. But that shouldn't make people think that that dollar can't turn into a duck, or these smaller donations can't turn into something real big collectively, right, And certainly just just buying the ticket and going there and not bidding is a help. Volunteer days are are big too. Do you guys have any opportunities coming up for folks who are listening? Yeah, you bet. 00:30:16 Speaker 1: The month of May is going to be our hands on habitat month and so we're going to have a bunch of different opportunities for volunteers to come and get their hands dirty and get habitat on the ground. And so our national website, Pheasants Forever dot org is going to have the events pop up right there on that page where you start, and you can sign up for an event that's close to you. Do a lot of awesome things fence pulls, you know, planting, shelter belts, grass management, pollinator plantings. The list goes on. But there's opportunities all across the nation. And I didn't encourage folks that want to, you know, give back with their time. That's huge. That's really important to get in great habitat on the ground. 00:30:58 Speaker 2: And what's your sales pitch to folks to get folks to volunteer. 00:31:03 Speaker 1: Oh my sales pitch is, uh, come out, have some fun, meet some folks that are just as passionate about wildlife and wild places as you are. Get your hands dirty and make a difference for the state and the experiences that you care about. Come out and get involved. 00:31:20 Speaker 2: That's that's nice. That's nice. I usually, uh get a little bit more down to brass tacks and incentivize. I said, you know, there's a lot of old folks in these conservation organizations, uh, and they love to talk to people. So if you show up and you bust your hunt for a little bit because they like they like good work ethic, Yeah, you're gonna make some friends that are probably gonna let you hunt someplace or tell you where to go hunt. 00:31:50 Speaker 1: That's definitely true. And showing up makes a difference. You show up in a local community where you like to hunt, say rural Montana, and you show up and meet some folks and maybe help out on a private lands conservation project for a volunteer day. There's a good likelihood that you might be able to get back there in the fall and enjoy some time out there. I think that's some truth to that for sure. 00:32:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe not be opening day or opening weekend when the family comes out, but probably get a cup of coffee out of it. 00:32:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely a cup of coffee lunch, maybe a cookie or something, I don't know. 00:32:27 Speaker 2: Heck. Yeah, Well, I appreciate you talking with us today, hunter and really appreciate what you guys are doing on the PF front. So where should people go to find you? 00:32:41 Speaker 1: Yeah? Go on pheasants Forever dot org. We have a really cool tool on there for to find a biologist. You can enter your zip code and find the closest staff person to your location. So I'd encourage you to do that if you want to meet someone that works for the organization or get some technical advice. We also have a seven hundred and fifty chapters across the nation, so find your local chapter and get involved. The awesome thing about those chapters is they keep one hundred percent of the funds they make and have decision making authority over those so really empower the volunteers to decide what they care about and where that money should go. 00:33:18 Speaker 2: And what happens. If you're like a member of a different organization. 00:33:22 Speaker 1: I think that's great. I'm a member of multiple conservation organizations, and I think that just just adds value all the way around. You know, each organization, you know, whether it's Ducks, Rocky Mountain, Elk Melder, whatever it is, they have a different niche and I think they're all important. And conservation is a huge challenge, you know, and I think now is the time we really need to focus on making measurable differences where we work and I see all these conservation organizations really doing great things in the states they work in. So i'd encourage everybody to join a couple, get involved, and find the way one that really speaks to you the most. 00:34:03 Speaker 2: Heck yeah, buddy, Well you got big plans for this this fall. We don't have to talk turkeys. Everybody's talking turkeys. I know you'll you'll get out there too, But. 00:34:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, nothing set in stone for this fall. But my daughter will be two coming into the fall, and it's been kind of fun to try to get her out a little bit more and hopefully turn her into an upland hunter when she comes of age. So it's been fun to get out and hopefully really excited for sharp Tails. Sharp Tail's kind of my my jam. So going to be out there in September, out in the open prairie behind my yellow lab. So it's gonna be great. 00:34:39 Speaker 2: Heck yeah, heck yeah. I just just turned down puppy. I want to I want to give a little snort. One more season of hitting it real hard, another one more selfish season. Yeah, not great? Sure right now as is so Yeah, when she's still in super athlete mode, I'm gonna give her one more and then it's puppy time again. 00:35:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have that thought about getting the second one, but I feel the same way my big boy Fletcher. He i'd feel a little bad having another one. He sure enjoys having it all to himself. 00:35:17 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yes, sir, Well, thank you so much for coming out. Please check out all of your local conservation groups. Like I said at the beginning, I'm not going to tell you to join Pheasants forever. I'm a life member, but you know you got to make your own decisions. Be adults, for God's sakes, Hunter, thanks a bunch, Matt. Tell the staff and everybody. We sure appreciate him and keep creating that habitat. So even if we don't have it this year, we'll get to it next year. 00:35:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me