00:00:02 Speaker 1: From Mediator's World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is Cal's weekend review, presented by Steel. Steel products are available only at authorized dealers. For more, go to Steel Dealers dot com. Now here's your host. Ryan cal Callahan, a twelve year old angler in Florida, is now the proud owner of two new world fishing records after he hauled in a fifty eight pound eight ounce jack cravel from a dock across the street from his house. Before you assume the kid had the help of an uncle or a father, think again. Nicholas Fano hauled in this monster all by himself with a rod and line far too small for that class of fish. One warm Saturday last October, he and a buddy decided to throw in a line on the Bessie Creek in Palm City, Florida. Bessie Creek is only about a hundred feet wide and flows into the St. Lucy River on the Atlantic Coast. He and his friend caught a few small mullet, hooked them into some circle hooks, and throughout the bait on some thirty pound test braid. When the record breaking fish grabbed the line, Fano knew he wouldn't be able to overpower it with the tackle he was using, so he spent forty minutes tiring out the huge fish before landing it. The whole time, he never let go of the rod. Here's a quote from Treasure Coast newspapers. I knew I couldn't get anybody to help me handle the rod, or else it wouldn't count as my fish. That's very astute, nick, I'm doing myself. Once they took a few pictures and weighed the fish, they let it go. The International Game Fish Association confirmed the catch and awarded Fano with two world records, the junior world record and the men's fifty pound test line world record jack cravell. That's right, men's world record. You heard it here first, folks, Young Mr Fano has become a man today. You have become a man. Those records likely won't be beaten anytime soon. The previous international record of fifty eight pounds six ounces has stood for twenty two years, and the Florida state record of fifty seven pounds has stood since nine The jack cravel can be found both inshore and in open water. They're commonly three to five pounds, and the largest are usually closer to twenty pounds. If anybody has ever fished for jack's or caught any jack species, you know that they have an incredible amount of fight, and more often than not, the fish that you bring into the boat is undersized. For the fish that was in your mind during the fight, Fanos fish was more than twice the size of your average jack gravel. Congratulations, Mr Fanno. We can't wait to see what happens now that you're a full grown fishing dude. This week, as per usual, we've got a bunch of awesome stuff. But first I'm gonna tell you about my week, and it's a little special because I have a guest, a guy named Fritz, which is half or fifty of the TikTok Sensation Old Time Hockey, which features only Fritz and Donny Brook. We have been fishing a world around yellow perch Lake Lake Cascade in central Idaho. This thirty thousand plus acre body of water average is less than forty ft deep, produces a ton of food, and, most importantly to anglers, has also produced two world record yellow perch and at least three maybe five state record yellow perch. Outside of that, and something I just learned this week by fishing not only with Fritz, but also with Jordan Messner and Mike Thomas of Idaho Fish and Game. Mike is the Regional Fisheries biologist and Jordan is the Southwest Regional Fisheries Manager. Perch in Lake Cascade are actually setting records of their own by themselves, just by getting old, extremely old, fourteen years verified, fourteen year old yellow perch, which is insane, and we may see some go beyond that. Anyway, Fritz, I need you to do one thing. What is TikTok TikTok? Well, what TikTok is and what I do on TikTok might be two different things. But TikTok is uh pretty much just a dance app. I believe it started as musically. I think it got bought out UM switched to TikTok. It's a short format video app. UM you can do anywhere from one second to three minutes. So I got involved in it about two years ago. And what do you do? So I do mostly UM kind of my own little form of smr um, which is kind of like a calming technique in my videos. I didn't start out that way, kind of grew into it, but my videos ranged from mostly anywhere thirty seconds too, probably about three minutes, so pretty much to the max. So the TikTok platform, if you're familiar with like an Instagram or maybe even like a Facebook or something like that, Uh, it's it's another social media platform where anybody who downloads the app can upload content. And you got into this house. So I got into this, uh just kind of on a whim. But basically right after COVID, I was playing in a hockey league out of Sue, Canada, which is in Ontario, um, just north of the Michigan border where I live, about thirty five minutes, and that lead got canceled when COVID happened. Um, but our group text about like the game and what time it started and kind of who's getting there at what time? You know. Um, that kind of kept going and so when we weren't playing hockey, it would just end up being a lot of hockey videos getting sent. So basically it's like a link. Right you click on the link, it takes you to the app. So like I'm in the app watching the videos and I just always enjoyed them. I found myself setting them to like other people like copy and paste in the link, um sending it to like other hockey buddies and stuff. And then after a period of time I decided to make one. It was I think it was April two. Um, it was a hockey video. Um kind of connected with the hockey audience first, and then kind of just started from there and just kind of grew organically, you know, just kind of just showed a little bit into my life and what we do in the Cedar Swamp where I live with my dog donny Brook. And people really enjoyed it. So I kind of just kept to it. And part of TikTok is like people who leave comments, so they could have a comment like where are you from? Or I love your dog? What's your dog's name? So then you respond to that comment in a video. So a lot of it was just driven by like what people were asking and and your dog is donny Brook, which should be the other half. Yeah, that's Michael Jordan's I'm Scottie Pippen. And um when you say, like like people liked it, right, you you literally went from zero to what were you at now? Um? I think on TikTok we're at about four point eight million. Four point eight million, Yeah, pretty wild million, right, And and so what what are people engaging with? Wait? What are you doing on there? You know, I think it'll want for a while. It took me um kind of asking the same question to see what it was was special about it. Um, So I'm not saying I got it nailed down. But if I were to guess, I would say it's a place where people can put their heart forward. I know it sounds a little weird, but it's a place where you can kind of just be yourself, you know, if you like something that's a little out there. The world's big enough already, and you're able now to put videos online and connect with people. And never in a million years did I think people would be interested in the things I'm interested in or stuff like that. So I really don't have it nailed down. I don't know why people think it is so special, but it means a lot. UM means a lot that people want to come on the adventures. I want to see the videos. So I just kind of try to keep it going. And if you can remember way back when, you know, it was sometime during this this COVID era, But I did mention here on The Cow's Weeken Review podcast during the My Week section that you know, I kind of like stumbled on the algorithm of them served up or somebody gave me a link to old timey hockey on on Instagram, and boy, you know, I hope this isn't offensive, but I found it like wholesome and just like warm inviting a bunch of other words here would be like inclusive. Well, I'm trying really hard not to get insulted, right, It's like it's like that. But man, it's like this day and age, it's like you're not insulting people on there, You're not being controversial, you aren't chasing that next thing. I guess. You know, it's literally like a warm campfire sometimes, and you're like inviting people to come sit next to a warm campfire, inviting people to have a meal, inviting people to sit down and play like a really old video game. Okay, so there's like some nostalgia stuff in there. Uh, you got a super cute dog that's just like your buddy on there, Donny Brook, that goes along with you. And yeah, that's the reason that I connected with it is it is outdoors and it's just like it's a welcoming thing. And uh, that's how you and I started talking, Rather like I reached out and I said, uh, just appreciate the positive content, you know, keep it up right and you have, which is awesome. And and you know, obviously I'm a fan, still a fan. So uh, and you gotta come down here to Idaho or you made the choice to come down here to Idaho to a lake that I have never fished, and I've always wanted to fish, and just kind of had a hunch that you, because of the content that you put out, that you'd be somebody worth fishing with. And you've turned out to be that person. That's a spoiler alert for everybody if you follow old timey hockey. This is somebody that you can sit down, have a cold pop with and you know, do some angling for yellow perch. So your impression of Late Cascade, Idaho, Holy way, where do I start? We'll start with the world class perch. Um biggest, I mean some of the biggest in the world, you know, let alone where I'm from, Um, where I'm from. You know, a perch that you'd keep, maybe get mounted, is one you'd probably tossed back here and and so you are, you're thirty some minutes from hockey league in Canada, but you live in Michigan, which makes you a uper r. You're in the Upper p A, the Upper Upper Peninsula, um, and there's a lot of water up there, a lot of water, and that's like pan fishing country. And the perch kind of by size falls into like a pan fish category. It's not like it is vertically oriented as a bluegill or a sunfish. But you've probably caught a lot of perch. Yeah. Um, you'll find them competing a lot because they are the same size as the pan fish. So you know, you'll find them in school sometimes with gills uh and fish um, pumpkin seed, you know. And the perch kind of suspend a little bit lower where I'm from, so it's really hard to get through those gills, you know, to get to the perch. So here it's nice. You see that mark. You're right, you know, it's either one of two things pretty much or one of three. I guess it could be a rainbow trout, right. But so that was really cool coming out here and not having to kind of because we do love fishing for perch. It isn't that. It's just they tend to be a little bit finicky. Um I was fishing for him three days before I came here, and uh we end up just switching and went to bluegill. Right, you're like, this thing's biting. Yeah, yeah, I just been you know, one of those years. Just look bites. Seems like it's starting late. We had a interesting morning today, like it's like, drilled some holes. So he got on some sleds ripped out on the lake. For me, it's ripping out on the lake. It's like a conservative twenty five mile and uh, we drilled some holes, started picking up fish on our vexiler like hummingbird fish finders were at and we're not getting any bites. Like you knew the fish were down there. You're picking them up on the electronics, but you just couldn't get one to eat something. Yeah, a little frustrating sometimes they yeah, absolutely, but marketing them is always fun. But when you know it's a fish, you know your baits right there, You know the fish is doing its job. You know the bait's probably doing its its job. And then mark the fish is following your bait up and down the column. Yeh, fire in the hole. Yeah, it's just it's not connecting with it. Yeah, that was making me a little self conscious. But I just tried to switch up my cadence. Um, you know, keep slamming it on that bottom, mix it up a little bit like we were doing. Pulled up, take a little bit and hope for the best. Yeah. And I mean so prior to coming here, what was your biggest yellow perch? The biggest yellow perch was about almost twelve inches so, eleven and three fourths so. And then out here on the on the ice the first day you uh, you broke ye right, you broke a half yeah, yeah, and then you got one today that was thirteen and three. I think, yeah, wild Yeah. I told him if we could live well this and I could take it back home, I'd be a pretty big deal. And and I am so far behind the curve in the world of perch fishing. It's it's like an adult onset thing for me. Like, you know, in Montana, it's just not not a species that people from Montana like. Really, you know, it's like your neighbor who moved to Montana from Minnesota or Michigan or someplace they fished for perch, and you were always like gives maybe for throwing like spinners off the dock at Flathead Lake or something like that, you'd pick up a perch, but it um mostly control them too where I'm from with this little spinner. Oh nice. Yeah, and obviously open water right yeah, but yeah, uh, just the variety of species as you as you move in towards the interior, right, like the high mountains, the high area altitudes just don't we don't support as much life. The old tiny hockey channel. I look at that man, like you're you're hitting so many touch points of the outdoors, right, Like there's fire, there's cooking outside, there's fishing. Certainly some hockey at least some hockey references, right uh uh canoeing, seen canoeing on there, seen snowshoeing. I love it absolutely. What what were like your outdoor influences? Um? Growing up was just my family, you know, I was lucky enough to grow up around a lot of it, lucky enough to grow up in a region where a lot of it's pretty common. I would say probably my biggest influence was my grandfather, because that's kind of who installed you know, the ethics, and my father that he passed down to me, taught me how to hunt, taught me how to do it ethically, and you know, just to respect the animal and you know, do it right, do things right. Um, there's a right way to put meat on the table, and he taught me that. And uh, I would say if that I could nail down a person that was the biggest influence, it would probably be my grandfather. Deer hunting was probably my entrance into the wild per se, just that I grew up around mostly um, like you were talking about perch fish, I didn't necessarily grow up perch fishing. Um, we just call it pan fishing where I'm from. You hope to get a perch. But I'd say deer hunting was pretty much probably my biggest influence that got me into the outdoors. Um, got me into the science of it kind of per se. And you know, years of work makes up for that one moment when you get a buck that came in, you know, that first time. So I think that kind of instilled in me like this has a payoff. You know, it's not just about like going out getting an animal, or it's not about like you know, just going out and trying to film things and stuff like that. It's about, you know, building up relationship with nature. And I've been fortunate enough that I grew up around it. Um, So I think that's a little bit I guess what I'm trying to pass on, you know what, I'm trying to show people that there is outlets like nature out there and a lot of things you can do in it. Right, absolutely, if you really wanted to like get a message out in regards to like, you know, it's obvious that that you've had an outdoor education, right, and you've had a lot of influence in the outdoors you. I mean, this is your your job now, right, this is what your your full time living is, right, and it's kind of an immersive outdoor experience. Um, thank you in far fewer words than than I do things. It's uh, it's working, it's great. Thank you. So if you want to take that and relay that to somebody, Uh, do you have any like takeaways? Like if you say, like, hey, if you can look at all my stuff and and he needed me to suggest something, I would prefer you take this out of it. I guess I would just tell everybody I'm not an expert, you know, I'm an apprentice. I'm an outdoor apprentice. I'm still willing to learn. I don't know everything by any means. So I guess if people could take one thing from it, it would be, um, don't be intimidated by get out there, get your feet wet, um, start learning things. Don't think you ever know everything, which I was fortunate enough my once I turned about thirty late twenties, started being a little bit more receptive to people trying to teach me things. So Anny, how that happens, right, So, UM, I guess that would be you know, nature has been a big part of my life. But um, I still think I'm early on my journey, and I just hope people start there's too that's great. So out here in Idaho, we're missing your second half, the donny Brook of the old timey hockey. We UH have a snort here, the Snort Report, and UH, I just gotta tell you, like, one of the cutest things of the week is initially UH we you know we're all writing not tandem, but I guess triple counting the dog on UH snowmobile I borrowed from Stephen Ronnella and UH at the very beginning of the week. Snort very intimidated by jumping up on the sled with Fritz here and today was just automatic, like basically Fritz opens his arms and Snort jumps into them. Hopefully we captured some of that on camera. We're gonna get this out on a future field report. Cal's we can review field Report that old YouTube series will fire back up and show you some good outdoor adventures. Thank you very much, France man, it's been great. Thank you. Hopefully we can plan on something else, right, Yeah, thank you. Though from buying my heart, this is a trip of a lifetime. Coming out here. Crew was great. It was amazing. I just thank you. Oh yeah, man, thank you so much. Yeah, it's it's a it's such a goofy deal for me. I mean, like, I'm thirty nine, I got a couple of years on you. Uh, like chatting with folks over the internet sometimes, right, it's like reaching out and be like, hey, I see you're doing some stuff. It's very cool. Uh, let's go fishing sometime, right and then connect and do it. Is like the magic of connectivity these days. But you kind of never know what you're gonna get. So I'll just say on the record like old timey hockey. Fritz is a good guy to go fishing with. Thank you, so is cal Thank you, so before we go, Where did folks find you? What do you got? What else you got going on? What's the next thing? We'll see you in the next thing, just day at a time, right now, but right now. You can find me on TikTok at old time Hockey. You find on Instagram, YouTube, find me at red Wings, Ooper seven one seven at all dot com. Drop me an email. I'm always available, send me a message. Do we have to spell old time hockey because you spell it a little funky? Right? Yeah, a good call should have done that. It's a old time O L D T I M E. And then I spelled hockey h A w K E Y. No real reason. The other name was taken a lot of news over at the old people desk, and no, when we're not talking about a reboot of the TV series The Golden Girls. Betty White, rest in peace. If you can keep the heat low enough, you can brown both sides of the omelet without burning it. Oh you're welcome, and if you ever want any more advice, I'm always here you too. Thank you, Mr. President. First Up. Scientists have found the first documented case of disease transmission from animal to human, which likely took place while that early human was butchering game. A team of Swiss scientists made the discovery recently while re examining the first fully intact Neanderthal skeleton ever found. We've known for a long time that this Neanderthal lived about age sixty and suffered from arthritis that had deformed as joints very severely. This guy could have used Madville, but this new analysis showed that all of the joint damage couldn't have been caused only by arthritis. The authors write that the skeleton shows quote erosions at multiple non contiguous vertebrae and reactive bone formation extending far beyond the left hip joint, which suggests that additional diagnosis of brucellosis. That's right, brucellosis, that disease that prevents ranchers from loving bison, and that disease that means that our neanderthal could have used much more than advil, like an epidural from the neck down. We have covered brucellosis a whole bunch on the show, but as a refresher, Brucellosis is a bacterial infection most commonly found in hooved mammals and transmitted mainly through contact with infected after birth. It's most publicized effect is causing pregnant cows to miscarry. You'll remember that a huge controversy around bison reintroduction is the worry that the bison could possibly spread brucellosis to cattle. But Brucella bacteria also infects all kinds of tissue, from bone and muscle to liver and kidneys, and it causes severe fever as well as joint and muscle pain. There have been many modern cases of humans contracting brucellosis from all kinds of infected animal tissue, and hunters can be particularly susceptible. Pack those latex gloves and wash your knives if you're hunting game that might be infected. You do not want to end up like our Neandertal friend. Because there were no domestic cattle back in Neanderthal times, the disease was almost definitely picked up while processing deer or or rock, or eating raw meat. No latex gloves or pellet grills available back then. Brucellosis is just one of the animal diseases that have transferred to humans along with AIDS and COVID, and maybe, if we give it enough time, c w D could make that jump to either to humans or cattle or both oh quick aside. In the history of anthropology, as we mentioned earlier, the specimen known as the Old Man of La Chapelle was the first fully intact Neanderthal skeleton ever found. Way back in when he first turned up, researchers didn't realize he had such severe bone disease, and his deformed skeleton shape was interpreted as how all Neanderthals were built that means due to this one individual's arthritis and brucellosis. The image of the stooped over head jutting out caveman took hold, and all those drawings you see gowing monkeys turning into humans by standing up straighter and straighter were based on bad marketing and speaking of painful images, the best preserved cave painting of a human being gathering honey from a bee's nest was recently discovered in the Baranco Gomez Rock shelter in northeast Spain. The amazingly clear picture is seventy five hundred years old and shows a person scaling a rope ladder anchored at the top of a cliff and secured to the rock halfway up by a pole. You can make out individual bees buzzing around the hive and the figures head tilted back to get a better view. And even older depiction of honey gathering is the eight thousand year old Man of Becor from the Queva de la Arena or Cave of Spiders in the same region of Iberia, which was discovered and shows the same method of scaling a ladder to collect honey. All you mountain goat hunters out there may think you're pretty intrepid with crampons and ice axes, but dangling from woven vines swatting away stinging bees to get some honeycombs, that is some good mountain climbing and food getting right there. When you think about prehistoric people, you typically hear about the transition from hunting and gathering to agriculture around ten to twelve thousand years ago. So these paintings from eight thousand years ago were made during the transition, and it may not be a coincidence that collecting honey was an important subject for these paintings. As bee keeping was one of the earliest forms of animal husbandry that people ever engaged in. The ancient Egyptians carved some very detailed hieroglyphics of bees and bee keeping from around four thousand years ago. Interestingly, domestication of bees is still incomplete, and in every colony of human controlled honey bees, there is an extensive mating with wild bees. In fact, some biologists consider bee keeping to be more of managing wild hives versus possessing a hive, as most colonies are able to survive and migrate to other nests if human stopped tending to them. Here's a couple of quick honey bee facts for you. Drones routinely fill their stomachs with flower nectar, weighing as much as half their body weight, and still retain the ability to fly. Their digestive enzymes start breaking down the structure of the nectar, and once they get back to the nest, they regurgitate their hall. That half digested nectar is eaten and re regurgitated by hive bees, who then beat their wings over it, keeping it at a constant nine degrees until all the water evaporates and you end up with honey so the next time you're sweetening up your yogurt or cup of tea, just remember that's twice evaporated bee barf that you're eating. Moving on to the last stop on our prehistoric history round up, more evidence has emerged solidifying just how long ago humans were hunting their own game, not just scavenging leftovers from the keels other animals. A team of scientists from the University of San Diego recently analyzed the human made cut marks on two million year old gazelle and wildebeest bones excavated near Lake Victoria in what is now Kenya. Existing research has shown that when lions or other predators get first DIBs on prey animals, they concentrate their bites on so called hot zones placed on the ends of the bones where muscles and tendons connect. If humans come along afterwards as scavengers, they don't leave any cut marks in those areas because the meat there is already missing. In these Lake Victoria bones, however, the hot zones showed cut marks from human tools, not from predator teeth, leading the scientists to conclude that humans had almost certainly killed the animals themselves and been the first to eat them. Many anthropologists had supposed that any meat humans were eating around this time was pilfered while skulking around the kill sites of other better equipped predators, meaning that you can now suppose from this kill side that hunting procuring your own meat, not stealing it from others, goes back further in our makeup than we thought. Interestingly, we don't know exactly what kind of early human was doing this hunting at two million years ago. It was likely our ancestor, Homo habilis a k a. The tool using man. That name would fit with all the stone cutting tools found at this site, but there were no human bones found. You know, don't die where you're having dinner. There is some possibility that the hunters in question here were actually Paranthropus, a type of hominid who lived in the same area at the same time as Homo habilis and whose Latin name means essentially alongside human beings. The back teeth of Paranthropus are flattened in a way that suggests a fully vegetarian diet, but who knows if they were in some transition stage of development when this hunt went down two million years ago, maybe getting calories from kills like this one spurred an entirely new direction of the species. How's that for a two million year old cliffhanger? The suspense is terrible. He's gonna and the last, but not least the grizzly bear desk. The governors in Montana Wyoming both submitted petitions recently to delist grizzly bears as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. Montana Governor Greg g and Forte argued that the grizzly bear population in the Northern Continental Divide ecosystem is ready to survive under state management. Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon says the same about the grizzlies in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Both governors claim that the existential threats that the grizzly populations in these ecosystems have passed thanks to the hard work of state and federal officials and conservation groups. Grizzly populations in these two areas have grown from less than two hundred individuals to about seventeen hundred bears today. These two areas hold the vast majority of the grizzlies in the lower forty eight Grizzly bears in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem are fully recovered, and their management is now best entrusted to the experienced and capable institutions of the states. Governor Gordon from Wyoming. One of the central questions in this debate is whether the populations in these two recovery areas can be seen as distinct. Part of the reason previous attempts to delist grizzly bears have failed is because the states weren't able to explain how delisting one group of bears might affect bears in the other ecosystems. There are six grizzly bear ecosystems in the lower forty eight. The populations in the g y E or Greater Yellowstone ecosystem and n c D E Northern Continental Divide ecosystem are doing well, which is why these governors want to delist the bears in these portions of Montana and Wyoming. But the populations in two of the other ecosystems are very low, and there are no grizzlies in the bitterret in Northern Cascade regions, uh, you know, making new grizzly bears. The latest five year status review of the species, published in March of last year by the U s Fish and Wildlife Service concluded that the populations in these two ecosystems have high resiliency, and the agency categorized the risk of extinction for the entire Lower forty eight population as low, which is great, But the US Fish and Wildlife Service still recommended grizzly continue to be listed as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. If their risk of extinction is low, why can't they be delisted? Because in scenarios where conservation efforts decrease and private land development increases, the populations in the g y E and n c d E could suffer significantly. Even with a slight decrease in conservation efforts, the populations in the Selkirk and Cabinet Yak ecosystems could be eliminated. In other words, the agency didn't do what the Wyoming and Montana governors want them to do, which is considered the bears in the different ecosystems as distinct. The US Fish and Wildlife Service didn't recommend delisting one group of bears while retaining protections on another group of bears. They considered the entire Lower forty eight a single population, and they determined that the bear status should remain the same. If you're saying, well, that doesn't really make sense. The argument here is considering each of these a single population is not a long term plan for genetic diversity. Remember way back when we talked about the mountain lions in the Santa Monica Mountains, we talked about island ecosystems, right, So the fear is that bears in the g y E will do great for a long time. However, without new genes coming in from let's say the n c d E or the Northern Cascades or some glacier hugging bear way up in Alberta, that population in the g y E, because it's isolated, will eventually deteriorate. So the folks that are saying way, wait, wait and hang on, let's not delist yet. They're thinking about this long term genetic viability of a population. It wasn't that long ago that the grizzly was fully endangered. There are very few and now there's actually more threats to the grizzly bear in a place like the Northern Continental Divide ecosystem, where with this massive flood of folks into Montana, a lot of grizzly bear habitat and range is getting broken up for cabins again, these bears need a lot of room to roam. I want to hunt them, I want to eat them, just like a lot of folks I know, but I also want them to be around for a long time. It's a tricky situation. The US Fish and Wildlife Service has ninety days to respond to each petition, which means they'll need to respond to g and four to A by March seventeen and to Gordon by April four. As always, will update you with any developments. Thank you so much for listening. That's all I've got for you this week. Remember, even though we're in the depths of winter, spring is coming, which means you're gonna have a lot of trees falling on your property. That sounds like you. Get your butt down to a local friendly steel dealer. Don't know where that is. Check out www dot steel Dealers dot com and find a local, knowledgeable steel dealer near you. They're gonna get you set up with what you need and not send you home with what you don't and most importantly, right in to a s k CL. That's an ask cal at the meat eater dot com and let me know what's going on in your neck of the woods. Thanks again and I'll talk to you next week.