00:00:12 Speaker 1: Rifle shots aren't unusual during deer season in Borough, Minnesota, but in twenty sixteen, one of those shots wasn't aimed at a white tail. It was aimed at a husband and father of four, shot with his own rifle by a perpetrator who might be a stranger or someone much closer to home. Now, nearly ten years later, a gun, a van, and whispers in a small Midwestern town, point in every direction and nowhere at all. That's next on blood Trails. When fifteen year old Jonathan Briske got home from school on November seventh, twenty sixteen, he only had one thing on his mind, deer hunting. His dad, Terry, had taken off work that day, and so the older brisk was already chasing white tails on the families one hundred and twenty two acre property in central Minnesota. 00:01:34 Speaker 2: I remember getting off of the bus and slave getting ready for deer hunting. Ran up the house, got all my clothes, got ready. I had my mom drop me off close to a blind that I was sitting at earlier that weekend. I was just going up for some dolls. 00:01:53 Speaker 1: He wasn't exactly sure where his dad was hunting, but he knew he was out there. Pam John's mother and Terry's wife had shot a deer the night before on a Sunday, and the couple have been up late tracking it. They'd eventually found it, but Terry decided to take the next day off work. That was unusual for him. Everyone I spoke to mentioned Terry's uncompromising work ethic, but deer season was only three days old, and he figured he'd check his stands and if he got lucky, run into a buck in the woods. 00:02:22 Speaker 3: I know he was out in the area. I just didn't know exactly where he was at. 00:02:25 Speaker 4: So I proceeded to keep texting him and texting him. 00:02:30 Speaker 3: And just no response. 00:02:34 Speaker 4: Well, then stuff started quieting down, and kept texting him, and also I could hear a ding ding, like okay, he's he's close by, Like I can hear his phone is on. 00:02:46 Speaker 3: So I was, you know, waiting, Okay, maybe he's coming this way. 00:02:50 Speaker 1: But Terry didn't get any closer. He also didn't silence his phone, which for a deer hunter is strange. 00:02:58 Speaker 3: I'm just like, okay, what's going on. So then that at that point I had gotten out of my blind and I just started walking away from my blind to see, okay, is he down in this ravine here somewhere. 00:03:12 Speaker 1: That's when John saw his father. But he wasn't walking through the forest and leaning against a tree or climbing into a blind. He was lying on the ground, motionless, his blood soaking the fall leaves. John knew right away his father was dead. 00:03:30 Speaker 5: I just instantly started freaking out, yelling to the world, like, what's going on? I yelled, help. 00:03:39 Speaker 6: I mean, I'm out in the middle of nowhere. 00:03:41 Speaker 7: And then also I'm like, I have to make a phone call. 00:03:44 Speaker 8: I have to call and tell somebody, because I just it was no shape at all to make phone calls other than to my mom. 00:03:52 Speaker 7: I felt like, I just that was the first person that came in my mind to call. I just I had no idea what was going on. 00:04:01 Speaker 1: Pamercalls, dropping John off in the woods, returning to the house to take care of her other children, and receiving the call that would change her life. 00:04:09 Speaker 6: They're not my house? 00:04:10 Speaker 9: Could that Jordanan call me? 00:04:13 Speaker 10: And so that there was something wrong? 00:04:14 Speaker 9: And so I went run it over there and calling everyone one in the nipe of it all because he was trying to find me. Scatche me and he had phone phon Terry oaks in the woods. 00:04:27 Speaker 1: John doesn't remember much about those minutes alone in the woods with the body of his father lying on the ground, but at some point he also called his aunt, Holly, Terry's younger sister. When Holly saw John's name on the caller ID, she assumed he was calling to tell her about a deer. 00:04:42 Speaker 11: I'm like, Johnny, he goes Holly, Holly, and I'm like, John, what's wrong? And he's just crying. I'm like, what happened. He's like, Dad's dead. Dad's dead. I'm like, what, who's dead? 00:04:55 Speaker 3: Dad? 00:04:55 Speaker 8: My dad? 00:04:56 Speaker 11: My dad is dead. And I'm like, what happened? 00:04:59 Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. 00:05:00 Speaker 11: Come home, Just come home. 00:05:02 Speaker 1: Holly and her other brother, Randy, drove the forty five minutes up to Little Falls, Minnesota. At first, Holly assumed it was some kind of hunting accident, but the truth was even worse and even more disturbing than she imagined. A priest had arrived at the scene to give Terry his last rites, but when Holly tried to go with him to see her brother's body, the sheriff's deputies wouldn't. 00:05:23 Speaker 11: Let her and they're like, uh, no, you can't go now. I'm like, what do you mean, I can't go? You can't go there, So we're kind of puzzled about that. Well, at that time, they already determined that it was a homicide, but we didn't know that because we still thought, you know, he shot himself or whatever. 00:05:41 Speaker 12: We determined that this was definitely close proximity just because of the evidence that was located at the scene, and we believe that there was probably some communication going back and forth before the saving occurred. 00:05:53 Speaker 1: That's Morrison County Sheriff Sean Larson, who's been in charge of the investigation since Terry was killed in twenty sixteen. The investigators determined that Terry was shot at close range by someone who saw him and likely talked to him, but there was something strange about the crime scene, something that didn't add up. 00:06:12 Speaker 12: But that was one of the things that was a little weird right away because his weapon was nowhere to be found. 00:06:17 Speaker 1: The family told investigators that Terry usually carried a thirty thirty Winchester Lever gun when he went hunting, but that gun wasn't beside the body, and so they assumed the perpetrator had taken it. The reason didn't become clear until a year later, when Terry's gun was found hidden beneath a layer of leaves, nowhere close to the crime scene. It's likely, though not certain, that Terry was carrying this rifle as he walked through the woods. Whoever he'd met had managed to get their hands on it, shoot him, and run away. Their actions have echoed through the small Minnesota community in the nearly ten years since Terry's death. The incident has turned family and friends against one another. It's made neighbors feel unsafe, and most tragically of all, it's left four kids without a father they loved. I'm Jordan Sillers and this is Blood Trails, A family's Hunt for the truth, Part one. Terry Terrence Virgil Brisk was born in nineteen seventy five in Little Falls, Minnesota. He graduated from Little Falls High School in nineteen ninety three, and, after a brief stint in the military, earned his diesel mechanic diploma from Alexandria Vocational Technical School. Almost no one I spoke to about Terry had anything bad to say. He was a hard working guy who loved his kids. The outdoors and heavy machinery. 00:07:49 Speaker 6: As a person, he was a wonderful man. He was a wonderful father. He was a great friend. 00:07:54 Speaker 13: That's Terry's wife, Pam. 00:07:56 Speaker 1: The pair went to high school together, but didn't really get to know each other until after they graduated. 00:08:02 Speaker 9: When we first met, it was that in wedding we weren't even you know, we were friends and stuff like that. We didn't really know each other a whole lot. We hung out a few times here and there. But how we were at a wedding and I remember real dampsing and I went and sat on his lap, and that was the first time I really met him. 00:08:19 Speaker 1: Terry traveled quite a bit for work, but John recalls that he always tried to make time for his kids. 00:08:25 Speaker 2: His great dad, awesome dad. 00:08:26 Speaker 4: I mean, he took us kids out fishing, hunting, always took us along and being as a kid he worked construction for my grandpa, So us kids grew up riding around in the dumb truck with him and just being out working with them all summer. Just went and read his home. He was hard working. He was on the road a lot, but when he was home, he was home and we were always doing something. 00:08:52 Speaker 1: Terry worked for many years for his father's company, King's Way Construction. Kingsway specializes in hauling rock material for landscaping and construction, and their gravel pit is located on the same property where Terry was killed. That gravel pit is an important part of the story, but we'll get to that in a minute. When Terry died, he was working as a diesel mechanic at a local cat dealership, a job he got in part to spend more time with his kids, but he still did odd jobs around the family property. 00:09:21 Speaker 6: Oh. He was a hard working, hard work and fool. 00:09:25 Speaker 1: That's Scott Jelinski, Terry's childhood friend. Scott still lives in the area, and he explained that Terry embodied the lessons and the culture of the small Midwestern community. 00:09:35 Speaker 6: We grew up that way. You were taught at a young age. 00:09:39 Speaker 14: You work, you pull your weight, you put in a hard day's work, and that if you want to go and enjoy yourself, you have to work hard in that. So he definitely was a hard worker and that and then a great father for his kids. He tried to provide them with everything he possibly could, but. 00:10:00 Speaker 1: He wasn't all work and no play. Becky Julenski, Scott's wife, told me Terry was the best man in their wedding and the godfather of their son. She remembers that Terry was always quick with a laugh and a joke. 00:10:12 Speaker 10: He liked the joke a lot. He always made the joke that our fun was his and not Scott's. And yeah, he was just a funny guy. He I don't know. He was just somebody that you would want to all. 00:10:30 Speaker 1: Scott says they didn't do much bow hunting, but they made time every year to go out during the States General Rifle season. They hunted that one hundred and twenty two acre property from portable elevated tree stands. If Terry was hunting in the woods, he'd take his thirty thirty. If he was set up on the field on the southeast corner of the property, he brought a different rifle, chambered in a calber more suitable for a long range shot. No matter what he was doing, whether driving a dump truck for his father's company, fixing a back hoe for cat, or zipping around in the snow machine, Terry prioritiz his family. 00:11:01 Speaker 9: He would all been over backwards for his kids. He did a lot for them. 00:11:06 Speaker 14: He was he was. 00:11:06 Speaker 9: Always there for them. 00:11:08 Speaker 1: He was also close with his parents, Virgil and Francis, and he was in constant contact with his three siblings, who all lived in the area. 00:11:16 Speaker 13: Here's Holly, We're. 00:11:17 Speaker 11: All still a close family. I mean, like everybody is in everybody's business. So I mean, I'll be working or something, and then all of a sudden, like Terry would call me at work just to like check in. And when he started having the kids, I mean I was there because it's like, oh sweet, you know, niece's nephews to spoil. Throughout our whole years, we've all been close and we still are. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: When Terry died, his family and community were devastated. The strange circumstances surrounding his death made it even more difficult, but they still tried to honor his life and work in the best way they knew how So we. 00:11:52 Speaker 11: Did a procession from Peers. We went over by the gravel pit and everybody kind of stopped, and then we stopped one last time at Terry's place. And I've never seen. 00:12:06 Speaker 15: So many cars in my life lined up, and then my brother and my nephew they had the equipment lined out to like, you know, to honor him. And then we had our neighbor boy he used to work for res and he drove the dump chuck and that was like the lead that was Terry's truck and he brought it just an honor for him. 00:12:38 Speaker 13: Part two. 00:12:39 Speaker 1: Guns and vans. Homicides are always difficult to investigate, but this one presented special challenges. The outdoor nature of the crime meant evidence could be destroyed or hidden by the elements, and witnesses were few and far between. The crime scene was also challenging to contain. John said that his mother arrived at the scene before law enforcement got there, but it's possible others had walked up to Terry's body in the hours between when he was killed and when sheriff's deputies arrived. Still, Morrison County deputies did their best. Sheriff Larson told me they secured the scene as quickly as they could, and they reached out to the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension for help with the investigation. But Morrison County has a population of just under thirty five thousand, so it's unusual for them to investigate this kind of murder. 00:13:29 Speaker 12: Yeah, we get our share of homicides, but a lot of it might be criminal vehicular homicide. So this case was a little different for us. So right away we have our own investigators that have investigated crimes like this, it's just not that we get a big share of them. 00:13:43 Speaker 1: One of the first things investigators tried to do is establish a timeline. John found his dad around four to twenty pm on Monday, November seventh, twenty sixteen. Terry, as you heard, had taken the day off work and had been out in the forest much of the day, which gave investigators an opportunity to find people who may have seen or spoken to him. 00:14:02 Speaker 12: And you just got to remember, this is a remote rule area. It's not like it's heavily traveled upon. But yet, you know, we checked with people, you know, like bus driver's mill route, things of that nature, people that would be traveling this and try to lock everything down and get statements immediately from surrounding neighbors. And then we just kind of zoned it out and went miles and miles and miles. Because the biggest thing is during hunting season, it seems like everybody hears a shot and then they always think amongst themselves, like, well, who was that? Which property owner wasn't that shot? So that's where we kind of get a lot of our information too. 00:14:43 Speaker 1: Initially, as they were speaking to those neighbors, they found one who not only heard a shot, but had spoken to Terry as he was walking the property earlier that day. 00:14:53 Speaker 12: We did talk to a neighbor who was actually hunting that same day. Terry, he did talk to this neighbor and she gave us a statement and she said, yep, I talked to him. He said he was all going to be cleaning stands. It was a little weird. She didn't see a rifle with them at that point. But again, we're trying to recall memory, and you know, sometimes you don't see and will remember certain things. 00:15:19 Speaker 1: This neighbor said that around two o'clock that afternoon, she was rolling some garbage bins to the end of her driveway when she heard a gunshot. Of course, if you've ever been pretty much anywhere in the Midwest on the third day of deer season, it's not uncommon to hear rifle shots, but most deer are betted down by two pm, especially on a balmy sixty two degree November afternoon, Any shot, especially one just across the property line, would have been noteworthy. If this was in fact the shot that killed Terry, he could have been lying in the forest for more than two hours before he was found. This presented a real challenge for investigators, but it was especially heartbreaking for Terry's mother, who was driving the nearby roads that afternoon. 00:16:02 Speaker 11: I mean, I my mom just feels guilty enough that that day they were in the pit driving around. She's like, my son laying in the woods dead and I didn't do anything about it. And it's like, Mom, you couldn't have done anything about it, but she It kills her inside and it's taken a toll on the family big time. 00:16:27 Speaker 1: That gap between when Terry died and when he was found gave the perpetrator plenty of time to cover up his or her crimes. The first thing they did was hide the murder weapon. In this case, that was a Winchester Model ninety four, a lever gun chambered in thirty thirty Winchester. The AE stands for angle eject and it was introduced by the gun company in nineteen eighty two. As you heard the sheriff mentioned, there is some question about whether Terry had his gun with him as he walked through the woods. The neighbor didn't remember seeing it, but it's possible she forgot or he just didn't have it at that moment. The sheriff and his deputies thought it was unlikely that a deer hunter would walk his own property during the season without his rifle, so they scoured the woods in search of that weapon. 00:17:12 Speaker 12: They thought it was very odd, you know, that it wasn't on his person or nearby. So when we locked the scene down, we did a article search with a canine looking for that rifle. It wasn't located. The next morning, I contacted local fire departments to come out and they did a shoulder to shoulder search pushing that property. Rifle still was unlocated. 00:17:36 Speaker 1: They continued to search for the rifle, but Sheriff Larsen told me that the fall leaves were knee high in some areas. They knew that even if the gun was somewhere in those woods and not in the nearby Mississippi River or one of a thousand lakes and ponds, it would be difficult to find until those leaves began to decompose. 00:17:56 Speaker 13: And they were right. 00:17:58 Speaker 12: It was till the next spring. All these leaves and everything's kind of matted down now. So we went back out and we pushed that scene, and one of our investigators, along with a BCA investigator, were able to locate the rifle. 00:18:15 Speaker 1: The sheriff hasn't said publicly where the rifle was found, but. 00:18:19 Speaker 12: I can tell you it was nowhere near where Terry's body was. 00:18:22 Speaker 1: The location of the murder weapon is obviously significant, but we don't know exactly how. If it was found on a neighboring property, that might implicate whoever owned or lived on that property, but that's not necessarily true. The murderer may have simply thrown it away while fleeing the scene, not hidden it somewhere. In particular, the crime lab at the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension wasn't able to garner any clues from the rifle besides what you already heard that it was Terry's gun and it. 00:18:50 Speaker 13: Was used to kill him. 00:18:53 Speaker 1: That evidence was enough to dispel other rumors that John had shot him accidentally, or that he'd been hit with a stray bullet, or there was a sniper hiding in one of the property's tree stands, which Sheriff Larson says, was an actual theory that spread around town. None of those things happened. Terry was shot at close range with that rifle. This knowledge allowed investigators to formulate a few possible scenarios. If Terry had his gun with him, the murderer either wrestled the gun away from him, grabbed it without Terry's consent, or somehow convinced the hunter to hand over the weapon. But if Terry wasn't carrying that rifle that day in the woods, it suggested a much darker explanation, one that will dive into later in the episode. But finding the murder weapon wasn't enough to prove who killed Terry. The case teetered on the brink of obscurity until twenty twenty two, when Sheriff Larsen announced the second major development in this case. 00:19:49 Speaker 12: I can tell you there was a blue van that was spotted in the area for sure. Three maybe up to five people saw this blue van in this area during that time time frame, and when we were able to come up with that better timeline, we could prove that that van was in the area during this incident. When Terry's phone shows that all activities ceased. That's the same timeframe that we're seeing this blue van by witnesses, so it's very concerning to us. We pushed that out on a few releases and we're looking for more information regarding that. 00:20:26 Speaker 1: Holly told me investigators had heard about this blue van in the week's following Terry's death, but for whatever reason, they waited until twenty twenty two to ask for the public's help identifying its whereabouts. The sheriff said it was spotted at the gate that leads into the property and then traveling away from the property. 00:20:43 Speaker 12: Sometime later, one person said it was at the approach off Hawthorne Road. They didn't see anybody, but they saw the van, and it would be right in our time frame as to when Terry would have been killed. Another witness came forward and said they saw a blue van and they said it was traveling kind of away from the scene on Hawthorne Road, going towards Jewel Road and then heading back Northboune. 00:21:10 Speaker 1: The Sheriff's office received additional tips about this van after they put out their press release, and there's one important detail that has never been publicly confirmed before now, but we'll get to in a minute, but as far as most people were concerned, this investigation appeared to have stalled. That was the last major update in the case, and the sheriff has been forced to appeal to the Little Falls community for help. 00:21:32 Speaker 12: This is an attack on his way of life, on our way of life, So this is an attack to everybody. So we just want answers, We want accountability, We want this person brought to justice, and we want to move on, but we can't do that until the community gives us a little help. 00:21:53 Speaker 1: After the break, we dive into some of the theories about what happened in those woods. Was Terry killed by a stranger, a trespasser, a neighbor, or is it possible he was killed by a member of his own family. 00:22:07 Speaker 13: That's next on Blood Trails, Part three. 00:22:17 Speaker 1: Rumors and Theories. If you've ever been part of a small town, a small church, or a small school, you can predict what happened in the years following Terry's murder. The vacuum left by the unsolved case was filled by rumors, gossip, and hearsay. Some of these theories were more plausible than others, but they were all incredibly painful to the brisk family. 00:22:41 Speaker 13: Especially the kids. 00:22:43 Speaker 11: The kids aren't dumb. I mean they hear stuff. I feel terrible for the stuff they had to go through. Like at school, everybody looking at him like, oh, even my one nephew. He went to Little Fallows versus peers and kids were asking him like what did your uncles shoot him himself? Why do you kill himself? And I mean Pat's sitting there defending himself that he didn't shoot himself. He was killed. 00:23:06 Speaker 1: The kids had to face these rumors at school, and Terry's parents had to face them everywhere else, and it hasn't stopped in the nearly ten years since their son died. 00:23:15 Speaker 11: It seems like everybody in Morrison, Conye Little Falls area, they all know what happened, but we don't. Sometimes it feels like they're blaming us that we did it. And that's how we like feel sometimes like we feel guilty when we do stuff because Terry's not with us. He's you know, six feet under even to this day, like you know, you go to the store or whatever, like especially my mom and dad, like I mean they're you know, no one in the community and stuff, and he go there and it's just like people just stare and it's just like, just tell us what you think, because you're probably thinking the same thing as us. 00:23:56 Speaker 1: What Holly is referencing is one of the most common and persistent rooms about this case, that Pam Terry's wife had something to do with his death. 00:24:06 Speaker 16: You know, everybody pretty much figured right away that it was her. I mean, it was no doubt in anybody's mind in the family that it was her. He wanted to divorce her, and there was no way that she was gonna let that happen because she had a sweet life. 00:24:21 Speaker 1: That's Michelle Mannick, a cousin of the Brisks on their mom's side. She's convinced that Pam was involved, and she claims the rumor is common in the area. She lives in a different part of Minnesota, but she says she once ran into a stranger from Little Falls who repeated the rumor back to her. 00:24:36 Speaker 17: I said, well, that's where my cousins are from. And then I said, you know how that was my cousin that had got murdered And he said, oh, you mean the one that his wife shot him? And I was like, how does everybody know this? But like nobody seems to be And he said, oh, that's just common. I mean, anybody in the airying does pretty much go anywhere, go anywhere in the area and ask anybody, And that's what anybody who's been to tell you. 00:25:02 Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat everything Michelle told me, but the gist of her argument is that Pam and Terry were having marital issues and Terry wanted to get a divorce, but they just built a new house and Pam wasn't about to let that happen. So, whether it was premeditated or the result of a heated argument, Pam either killed her husband or had someone else do it. That's the theory anyway. And I want to reiterate that no one, not Pam or anyone else, has ever been charged with this crime or named as a suspect. Not everyone agrees with Michelle, and there are other equally plausible theories that we'll get to in a minute, but the spouse is often the first person of interest in a murder investigation, and Michelle isn't the only family member who has this theory. 00:25:45 Speaker 11: I don't know if she pulled the trigger. Yes, my family feels that she's somehow tied to it. Because only a few people knew Terry was off that day. 00:25:57 Speaker 1: The Brisks didn't always get along with our daughter in law even before Terry was killed, so the family's accusation should be taken with a grain of salt. But without any answer from law enforcement, Holly can't help but look back on what happened with suspicion. For instance, Jay, Terry's older brother, spoke to Terry on the phone the day he was killed. 00:26:16 Speaker 11: Jay kind of said Terry's voice was like kind of horse and stuff, and I know, I mean, Terry and Pam were having issues, but we didn't realize how bad of issues, you know, they thought and stuff and families see that. But Jay's like, yeah, his voice was hoarse, and I didn't really talk to him that much longer, so I'm like, okay, you must have been, you know, yelling and something. 00:26:37 Speaker 1: Becky Jelinski, the wife of Terry's childhood friend, told me that Terry seemed out of sorts at an anniversary party a few weeks prior. Both she and Holly believed Terry was struggling with something, and Holly believes that something may have been Pam. Terry was upset in the hours before he died, but Holly claims that in the hours after Pam acted oddly nonchalant, one moment sticks out in her mind. Terry's four kids were all upstairs in her room with Holly. Some were crying, some were still in shock, So Holly asked Pam to come up and comfort them. 00:27:10 Speaker 11: So I went downstairs and I told Pam. I'm like, hey, he come up. I said, the kids are really kind of upset and stuff. And to this day, after she hugged them, it's still in my brain. She's like, you guys were gonna be okay, we can do this, you know, kind of like we miss dad. But she's like, okay, let's go back downstairs. Now there's people here for us. And I'm like, what, don't make these kids go talk to people. 00:27:35 Speaker 1: Of course, none of this is evidence of wrongdoing. Terry's voice could have been hoarse for a million other reasons, and it's impossible to draw any firm conclusions about how a person responds to that level of tragedy. But there is one piece of evidence that, according to Holly and Michelle, links Pam to the crime scene. Both women told me that Terry's mother was driving the roads around where her son was hunting the day of the end incident, and she noticed something strange. 00:28:03 Speaker 17: And as she was coming home, she said it was very weird to her because she was wondering, like, why was Pam's van parked where Terry hunt? 00:28:14 Speaker 1: Remember the blue van Sheriff Larsen is so interested in. Turns out Pam and Terry had a blue van at the time Terry was killed. Jerff Larsen didn't mention this in our first interview, but he confirmed it to me in an email when I asked him about it later. 00:28:30 Speaker 11: Terry's van was distinctive. It was an otter blue and it always had like a decal thing like on the side. And as they were coming up towards the pit, they're like, well, where the hell is she going? And as they approached it more and Laura looked like Terry's van and they're like, well, whatever, you know, must maybe drop, you know, one of the kids off or something hunting, you don't know. 00:28:52 Speaker 1: Terry's father was also in the car, and the couple watched the van drive north towards Terry and Pam's house about a half mile away. They had planned to visit their grandchildren that day, but they passed the school bus and decided to say hi as the kids got home from school. 00:29:06 Speaker 11: But when they pulled in, the van was parked in a different spot than normal. It wasn't in its normal spot because I mean two, everybody has like a designated spot when you go. 00:29:19 Speaker 1: This suggested to the Brisks that it had been Pam's van that they saw near the hunting property, and she was the one driving it. What's more, according to the sheriff, they weren't the only ones to report spying a blue van in the area on the afternoon Terry was killed. Whether this is the same van is unclear, but taken in total, it paints what seems like a bleak picture. Pam, according to the family, had a motive for wanting Terry gone, was behaving strangely before and after the incident, and her blue van was seen in the area. The same blue van, the Sheriff's office has said, is important to this case. Only the killer knows exactly what happened in those woods. But holly thing, it's possible that Terry and Pam got into something heated. 00:30:04 Speaker 11: I think he got approached by somebody and I don't know. I think they had some arguments and the way Terry is and how we are is Yeah, to a point, you just you get so pissed off, you just, you know, probably screaming and yelling. And I don't know if they somehow got the gun from Terry or he's like here, do me in here, take my gun, just do me, you know that type of stuff, because that's kind of like how we blow up and then whatever happened after that, no clue. 00:30:38 Speaker 1: When you hear everything laid out like that, it sounds pretty convincing, But there are always always two sides to every story and more than one way to explain inexplicable circumstances. For example, while John and Pam admitted that the family had a blue van at the time Terry was killed, John offered an alternative explanation of his father's death, and one that I think is pretty convincing. 00:31:02 Speaker 7: I think somebody was on the property that wasn't supposed to be on the property, and they were confronted and they didn't like how things were going. And I don't know if there's an altercation out there where they had gotten the gun from him or what, or if it was somebody ambushed him while he was walking through the woods. But the highly doubt that. It's just I believe he confronted somebody that was out there that was not supposed to. 00:31:30 Speaker 6: Be out there. 00:31:30 Speaker 1: This theory isn't as far fetched as it might sound. As you've heard several times, there was a gravel pit on the property Terry was hunting. I was told by the sheriff, as well as Terry's family and friends that trespassors would frequently come into the pit to look for agates, which are a kind of colorful banded courts. Scotchlinski. Terry's childhood friend, told me they caught trespassers on the property all the time, So. 00:31:53 Speaker 18: It wasn't uncommon to pull in there and there's a car sitting at the gate, or there would be some body walking way up on the top of the next still over as you were rolling in, and I just think he come upon somebody sneaking through the woods there on detected to go do whatever they did back there, and he just happened to be walking to a stand and caught him and it turned into a scuffle, and yeah, unfortunately he had to lose his life over the deal. 00:32:24 Speaker 1: John told me he's reported trespassers to the Sheriff's Department on multiple occasions. Some of the trespassers are repeat offenders, but he's never recognized anyone from the community. He assumes they see the gravel pit on Google Maps and think it might be a good place to look for agates and then take a stroll through the woods. One time, someone even stole their deer stands. I asked Scott whether Terry would ever get angry with trespassers, and he said the situations could sometimes escalate. 00:32:52 Speaker 18: You would get very, very pissed off at people because it's like they have no reason to be there, and they're like, well, I'm just all for a nature walk or I'm just I'm looking for agates. So they would try and tell you all the excuses of why, well, I'm just looking around, and it's like, no, get the heck out of here. 00:33:11 Speaker 6: This is private property. 00:33:13 Speaker 18: You're not supposed to be here, and they would get hostile with you, and so you would definitely have to try and use some force to get him out of there without actually getting physical. But I could foresee it, you know, well, the person obviously decided. 00:33:29 Speaker 6: Nope, I'm gonna confront this and we're going to fight this. 00:33:32 Speaker 14: And well, it happened, a gun went off, and you know, he ended up dying. 00:33:41 Speaker 1: Holly confirmed that they would frequently find trespassers at the gravel pit, but she isn't sure why someone would be walking through the woods where. 00:33:48 Speaker 13: Terry was found. 00:33:49 Speaker 1: She also wonders if there was some kind of fight, why she's never heard about Terry having defensive wounds on his body. 00:33:55 Speaker 11: Because I mean, if they really got into it, they should have shown some kind of struggle or something with Terry on his body. But I don't think there was like bloody knuckles or like that type of stuff. So I mean, I don't think he got where he could get in a fight, and he's not going to hand. Somebody is gone. 00:34:12 Speaker 1: I asked Sarah Flarsen whether Terry's body showed any signs of a struggle, but he declined to comment to protect the integrity of the investigation. We also don't know whether Terry was shot from the front or behind, or which part of his body the bullet hit. For his part, John doesn't know exactly what happened to his father, but he is adamant that his mother wasn't involved. 00:34:33 Speaker 7: I don't think my mother had a single thing to do with it. 00:34:36 Speaker 5: The thing is is it's a rumor. 00:34:39 Speaker 19: And to be honest with you, my grandparents on my dad's side and my mom. 00:34:45 Speaker 5: They haven't always gotten along. 00:34:48 Speaker 8: I've heard my grandmother say it before, she's thought it, and it's just I don't believe it one bit. 00:34:57 Speaker 5: It's just it's ridiculous. 00:35:00 Speaker 7: My mother loved my father. Yes, they didn't see eyed eye on everything. 00:35:04 Speaker 8: They would occasionally have their fights, but my mother's not capable of anything like this. 00:35:11 Speaker 1: Pam herself denies having had anything to do with her husband's death. She admits that they had marital troubles on and off throughout their relationship, but she denies that they were on the road to divorce. 00:35:21 Speaker 9: Yes, for years we were having issues. We were working things out. I think for the sake of the kids. We were trying to better both of ourselves to you know, we didn't want to fall apart, you know. I mean, yeah, we had talked about it, but I know neither one of us. We would have never been able to break the bond between the two of us, if that makes sense. 00:35:46 Speaker 1: Pam believes the brisks long standing dislike of her made her a natural scapegoat. For their son's death. 00:35:52 Speaker 9: I know they've suspected me for a long time. I know they hate me. The nasty things that they've done to me prove it that they don't want me around, and so I think sometimes they just blame me and want me to be the culprit of it. Also that they can have everything that I have and have everything of Terry's, but they can blame me all they want. I wasn't there. There's nothing I could have done. 00:36:15 Speaker 1: She does blame herself for one thing. She told me she was babysitting a neighbor's child the day Terry was killed, so she wasn't able to go hunting with him that day. 00:36:24 Speaker 9: My part was the fact that, you know, we I wanted to go and sit with him for a while, but with the baby here, I the con't in. So yeah, there's a bunch of times where I wish I would have been able to go out there, and maybe things would have been a lot different. 00:36:40 Speaker 1: As for the blue minivan, Pam admits to having a blue van at the time her husband was killed, but she denies being in the area around the time he died, and she questions the truthfulness of the witnesses. 00:36:50 Speaker 9: Well, I, yes, I did have a blue minivan at the time. Yes, we live what is it two miles not even two miles down the road. Yes, I was there at one moment when I drive to Jonathan off. But that was about the only time I've heard of people that have heard who have seen it, and I know his parents were one of them, so that I do not take an account. 00:37:10 Speaker 6: I do not believe them. 00:37:12 Speaker 1: Of course, the elder Brisks weren't the only ones to have reported seeing a blue Minivanjriff F. Larson told me that at least three people reported the same thing, but those witnesses have never been publicly named, and some of them came forward years after the incident occurred. John also pointed out that since Pam lived just down the road, it wouldn't have been unusual for her to be driving around the area, even though she told me she never left the house that afternoon because she was babysitting her neighbor's child. Sheriff Larsen thinks he knows who killed Terry. He's keeping that suspicion close to his vest, but he is willing to speculate in more general terms. 00:37:50 Speaker 12: They've had problems with trespassers in the past. You've got to remember, this is a gravel pit. People like to pick agots. And I was told that Terry would be strng or and if he needed to kick people off the property, which he should, you know, So that's one scenario. Did he come across a trespasser and you know, was there like an argument that ensued, and did the suspect somehow get his weapon and shoot him and flee that happened. The other thing we talked about is could this be a very close family member, Could it be a friend. Could it be someone very close that he trusted this person to get within reach of his rifle. And if that's the case, it's kind of easy to figure out what could have happened from there. So those are kind of our theories. Doesn't mean they're the only theories, but those are the two that kind of stand out for us. 00:38:49 Speaker 13: Part four tragedy. 00:38:54 Speaker 1: In a case like this, it's easy to get so caught up in the who done it that you forget about the real human being involved. But the truth is a murder is often just the first step in a much larger tragedy. 00:39:07 Speaker 12: He loved his family, you know, He's got a wife and four kids, and he loved taking them on adventures. There's some pictures that I saw circulating where he was taking his kids out hunting and just kind of introducing him to the land. So this is what he loved to do, and for someone to take that away from him, it's not right. 00:39:28 Speaker 1: The hours after Terry was killed are a blur for John, But the one thing that sticks out in his mind is his little brother, who was only five or six years old at the time. 00:39:37 Speaker 5: But I just remembered my little brother, who I mean, I kind of feel bad for him because he didn't really help with that much time with my dad, but he really didn't understand what was going on. He just was crying because he's seating. Everybody else kind of in enough shape, and he hadn't like, yeah, what was actually going on. 00:40:02 Speaker 1: The impact of Terry's death on his children reverberated out from that moment, and Holly says none of them have really had a chance to grieve, and certainly not as a united family. The kids saw less of their grandparents Terry's parents in the years after his death. Holly blames Pam and believes it speaks to her guilty conscience. But if your in laws accuse you of murder, it makes sense that you'd want to give them a wide berth. Pam claims that her in laws would take the kids for visits without telling her, and she characterizes their actions as unnecessarily vindictive. But here's the thing about family infighting, whether it's justified or not, no matter who is in the right, it has the biggest impact on the kids. 00:40:44 Speaker 7: I mean, I thought, you know, something like this happening. 00:40:48 Speaker 8: It would kind of bring our family together more, But it turns out it just pushed us away even further. 00:40:55 Speaker 7: You know, us kids are sitting. 00:40:57 Speaker 8: Here and we're constantly being torn and from one side of the family to the other. 00:41:02 Speaker 6: Side of the family. 00:41:03 Speaker 19: Kind of tough when everybody's turning in their backs on each other and fighting amongst each other instead of we all loved my dad, but we're going to sit here and. 00:41:14 Speaker 13: Fight about it. 00:41:17 Speaker 8: Against each other, which I don't understand how that why that way. 00:41:24 Speaker 1: The unsolved nature of this case has suspended the family in limbo, encased in the rock of their suspicions, unable to move on. Holly still keeps a trace of her mother from that day. Something she's left untouched. 00:41:38 Speaker 11: I still have that voice message from her. I've never played it, but I just yeah, I never deleted it, and I can know exactly what it was. 00:41:49 Speaker 1: Terry himself foreshadowed the way his death would harden his family against one another, and how the kids would be at the center of that controversy. A granite company had ordered a piece of rock from the Brisks gravel pit, and the Saturday before he died, Terry went down with his brother and their kids to get it loaded in the truck. 00:42:06 Speaker 11: Well, the weird thing is is Terry loaded his gravestone rock. The last pictures of Terry are like, is in the equipment, like in his hunting outfit, and then Robin just happened to do a zoom in and Terry is walking with Mike and they're both like in their little you know, orange and and he's holding his hand and they're walking. That's that's what hurts so bad, because those kids, Oh my gosh, it's hard, but we just we just want answers so bad. It's i mean, going on nine years, come on. 00:42:46 Speaker 1: In February of twenty twenty three, John updated his profile picture on Facebook. He'd killed a buck and dragged it in front of a memorial to Terry the family had built using that gravestone rock. The deer is a nice eight point Minnesota buck, and it nearly matches the illustration of a buck that adorns the stone. 00:43:04 Speaker 13: To some, bringing a. 00:43:05 Speaker 1: Dead animal to a place that memorializes your father might seem like an odd tribute. But knowing how much Terry loved hunting, and more importantly, how much he loved as kids, I think he'd be delighted to see his oldest boy's latest success in the woods. Part five, New Leads, Old Trails. I first heard about Terry's case back in twenty twenty three when the Morrison County Sheriff's office made what seemed like an encouraging announcement. 00:43:36 Speaker 12: The Morrison County Sheriff's Office just announced they've recovered more digital evidence in the case. 00:43:41 Speaker 16: The sheriff now using new technology to retest evidence in the case, hoping to bring in new leads. 00:43:47 Speaker 1: Those new investigative techniques haven't solved the case, but they have provided evidence that could one day be critical in court. Terry had his phone with him when he was shot, but investigators have only recently been able to extract more helpful information from that data. 00:44:01 Speaker 12: What we found out is that it could actually show us a timeline when all activities seem to cease, and it would actually give us a little bit better as far as maybe the route and location and GPS coordinates and stuff like that. So it really paints a picture for us, but we didn't have that right away. 00:44:20 Speaker 1: New technology has offered a better sense of the timeline and location of the people involved, but investigators have also relied on good old fashioned police work. They've interviewed persons of interest, they've spoken to neighbors and friends, and they continue to follow up on new information. If you think you might know anything about this case, no matter how trivial, Jriff Larsen asks that you give him a call at three two zero six three two nine two three three. 00:44:47 Speaker 12: Even if they hear something on this podcast that might be secondhand information, or they think they heard a story but it really maybe they think it doesn't apply, we still want to hear it and we still want to be able to kind of look it over and figure out what we can do with that, because we want to follow up on every tip. 00:45:05 Speaker 1: Again, that number is three two zero six three two nine two three three, and we'll post it to this episode's case file at the meat eater dot com slash blood Trails. 00:45:19 Speaker 13: Bringing this case to a close. 00:45:20 Speaker 1: Would mean the world to everyone on both sides of Terry's family. 00:45:25 Speaker 9: I think it would finally close the gap in my heart on what really happened to Terry. 00:45:32 Speaker 6: I would just like to know. I would like to know why. 00:45:36 Speaker 9: It would be a nice peace of mind to finally have somebody caught in, somebody tell us the reasoning, Oh why they did it. 00:45:47 Speaker 6: I missed him tremendously. I do every day. There isn't a day gole buy that. 00:45:54 Speaker 9: That I do not think of him. 00:45:57 Speaker 1: There's currently a thirty thousand dollars reward for anyone who presents information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person responsible. Whether that person is motivated by money or goodwill, or both. Holly believes it's a long past time for anyone who knows something to come forward. Finding her brother's killer would not only give the family the answers they so desperately want, it could also begin a healing process that's never really begun. 00:46:25 Speaker 11: Please speak up for the family so we can get the answers. We haven't grieved because we have no answers yet. 00:46:34 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Blood Trails. If you'd like to see images from this case, head over to the meeater dot com slash blood Trails and click on. 00:46:42 Speaker 13: The case file. 00:46:43 Speaker 1: For this episode, we've posted images of Terry John and his deer, the gravel pit, and some brisk family photos. Thanks to everyone who agreed to be interviewed for this episode. If you have a tip about this case or another case you think we should cover, send us an email at blood Trails at the meeater dot com. That's b l o O D T R A I L S at the meteater dot com. See you next time, and stay safe out there. 00:47:11 Speaker 6: H