00:00:06 Speaker 1: So you've never eaten enough cheese kurds, where like you can't have a bow movement for days, just like days on end they say you need all sorts of vice for bass. But I could give a ratsass about what people say. This is not the right use of ironically. It's coincidental. There would be ironic if it were found at a school for the visually gifted. I don't even really know how to start this. Um, I'm a little sad. Good morning, degenerate anglers, and welcome to Bent the Fishing Podcast. It's about to tell you something you're not gonna love. I'm Joe SURMELI where's my co host Samack? And I mean in samac and uh yeah, man, just get it over with. Yeah, so value degenerates. This is going to be the second too last Bent episode. Hate to have to deliver that news, but that's what's up. Tell everybody, why Joe, Because I am moving to New Zealand to frolic in the Emerald Hills with Mr Miles Nolte. No, I'm just kidding, I am. However, do you know I have him saved in my phone like that? Yeah? You should? I call him that all the time. I'm just kidding about a New Zealand no thanks to that. But I am, however, leaving meat Eater made that call. And it has been an incredible two years here working with some really amazing people. And while it's bent truthfully that I will miss the most, I just I cannot take it with me as I fire up the sputtering two Stroke and shove off for the next adventure. So here we are. Well, you know, here's to hoping that two Stroke turns over on its first trial. Won't will here will the metaphorical two stroke will? All good things must come to an end, man? Yeah? Yeah, But listen, I wanted to. I wanted to give you guys, you listeners out there heads up today UM, so that you can you can savor this episode and our next episode on April fifteenth, which will be our official last. But I didn't. I didn't want this to be abrupt. I wanted to kind of ease into it, um. And we've got something cooked up for our final show next week that should be a really fun time. And look, truthfully, I'm treating this like a New Orleans funeral. Okay, it's a celebration of life, not death, you know, even though listeners Joe has officially killed my career as a podcast host. Joe giveth Joe take it away. I'm not don't. Let's listen. All things are possible. You never know, man, you're gonna be You're gonna be fine. And I also, look, I want to give I do have to give a massive shout out to the crew at thirteen Fishing for their support of of Bent, Like we could not have made this show without them. And I was truly honored to work with a company that that genuinely makes good gear that I was psyched to use. Um, those guys are great. They have been great, and uh, I know you're joking around, but I also did I have to thank you right. Look, you you stepped in and stepped up as my formidable Bent co host after Miles left, and and this has been a blast, It truly has. You've had an entirely new flavored event. You've brought creativity and some great segments and uh, I from the bottom of my heart, man, I'm going to miss this. There's there's absolutely no doubt about that. Yeah, yeah, me too. Well, thanks man, you know, it was really fun and I'm proud of the work that we do. You know, thank you for thank you for kind of taking a shot in the dark and having me on the show. It was truthfully like one of my favorite things. And um, I am going to uh I'm gonna miss it, and thank you Joe. Yeah, man, man, for sure, I wouldn't I wouldn't have changed anything, nothing. And also yeah, thirteen Fishing, you know, thank you so much. Uh, we really couldn't have done this without you. And you know when I came on as like you know, the the co host. Um, you know, one thing drove throughout the entirety of my tenure is the co host event. I never felt like a replacement man, whether that was from like you, whether that was from meat Eater, whether that was from our sponsors. Um. So you know, to that end, you know, I've already thanked you, have thanked meat Eater, But thank you thirteen for like you know, also just immediately being like down with me from day one. Man. And I said I said this before, I will say it again. UM. I mean you shined in the role as as taking over news um after Miles left and developed into this you know, I mean, you have the listeners to thank for you being here. As much as me, because I heard nothing but positive things and saying, hey, that's your guy. Um, you know and and uh, I think I think think we're gonna hear you somewhere again at some point, you know what I mean, Like you've done a great job at this but right, tired of the sadness for a second. You are still coming out here this spring, and I we have we have plans to fish together. I mean, you can't get COVID a second time, right, so I'm assuming this time apparently you can. Just for the record, I'm assuming this time the plan will hold um and we'll do a little striper smally, Shaddon cats combo um, one of those. I'm I'm sure one of those fish will become your new favorite. I mean, catfish were my favorite. I've caught some stripers, I've caught some smally, but you have to catch a shot. So perhaps there you go, and if it works out how I'm planning, you'll be able to feed yourself for a month on the hall. Maybe I'll even give your broken some new gear while you're out here, right, I will cast some things you're driving so you could fill up the shagging wagon. You know what, I mean, that's that's true. I'm very much looking forward to it. Listeners won't believe this, man, I mean, but but Joe and I have never actually met in person. Yeah, I can't actually swear he's a real human like I don't really Joe is just the friendly but kind of grumpy man that lives in my computer. Yeah, yeah, that that is true. Um. Anyway, look, the important thing right now is that Bent is not done yet. Damn it. This is not our last show. So with that in mind, let's let's get back down to what we do best. Because um, let's just say next week's closer is gonna be laid out a little different than normal, right, So we're gonna cut into our covering water segment here, which we have not done in a while, and that's our rapid fire Q and A segment. And this is a fitting one because part of the reason that I wanted you on the show is because we have so much background in common. Like we both have musical backgrounds, were both from the East. Uh, different tastes in music perhaps, but similar backgrounds. Nonetheless, you know, yes, we've we've actually got one of the fellas from bon Ivor or bone Verre oncovering Water today and uh, it's our it's our buddy. He goes by s Carry that's name of his solo project. About that you talked about his new album, and uh and we got like this email that you know, having had a music career, I immediately recognized as a publicist email, but like all good publicist emails, it was attention grabbing. Uh, straight from the jump. I read it and I was like, you know what, Joe, we ought to have this dude on and a little bit of a little bit of convincing. Yeah, partially it was like, dude, like, I'm out of here anyway, just get whoever you want. Okay, we'll take I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, but I I will say this by now. You guys know, I hope that I'm like the punk metal, hardcore guy, like that's my deal, That's that's just my jam. But my wife, who does not like punk metal and hardcore music, was very impressed. And we have extremely different tastes in music. So while I was curious to talk to Sean, her excitement told me that this this may not be my new head bang Onto the Way to the River band. I'm going in I can hold it. No, I'm all right. So joining us for covering water today is Sean Kerry, whom you may be familiar with through his work for a little act called Bony There. Sean, thanks for joining us, man, no problem, Thanks so much for having me, Sean. Can I can? I ask? Because I'm certainly aware of the band, although I'm a little bit more of like a chug a chug a misfits kind of every time I think, what what does that name mean? Can you translate that for the listeners? Is there something behind that? It means good winter? Um? When justin the main dude came up with the name, he just didn't know that winter was spelled with an H in French. Got it? So he yeah, he signed a letter to his friend, um, good winter and just it looks looks like bon effort, but it's actually BONI I was gonna say, does it get obnoxious with people? Just like saying bon Iver? Like? Is I like, I imagine you get that? No, I'm him into all the pronunciations. Well, dude, I was joking with somebody today. I was like, you know what, I've been screwing that name up for like ten years and this is like the first time that it's actually mattered at all. Um. But moving off, how how did you get how how do you end up get involved in that project? Oh? Man? I UM. I actually approached Justin at his first gig as Boni be um and we sort of knew each other, um from the music scene, but I was a little bit younger, and I just I learned like all of his songs um when they were posted on my Space. If you can remember that, Wow, I remember my song very well. Yeah, um and yeah, I just like I was in music school at the time, so I just took like a studious approach to learning all of his tunes and he was kind of blown away by that. And we've been playing ever since. Very cool, very cool. So you also, um, you you have a solo project in the words right as carry tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, as Carrie started um kind of after the first bony Very tour. I was so inspired to do my own thing and um, write my own songs and just kind of riding that wave. And so I started that project project and I've been done four full length records, the fourth ones coming out next month. Awesome, awesome, So okay, listeners. You you probably know his music on in in one capacity or another. And while I'd like to sit here and talk music all day long, what you might not know is that Sean is also a very dedicated angler based no Claire, Wisconsin man like outdoorsman musician crossover is something I relate to, and it's pretty unique and more common than a lot of folks might think. Right off the top of my head, I think of our pal, uh, Dave Ceminett from Trampled by Turtles. Musicians seemed to be drawn to fly fishing for whatever reason, Like it's a it's a it's a thing. How do you end up getting into fly fishing and what draws you to it? I think a Ted Nugent, by the way, I think Ted Nugent's a fly fish man. I think Uncle Ted's pretty much just running and gunning out in Texas. I'm just saying, how are you gonna talk about musician? How door has been crossovers without talking about tedw a lot of musical similarities to Yeah, um, yeah, I mean I grew up fishing, uh, And then when I moved to Claire for college, I met this guy named Ben Lester and we were both percussionists, and he was an avid fly angler, so we started fishing together and you know, by the end of that first summer fishing with him, I completely switched over to uh to fly and it's yeah, I haven't looked back since. So one thing I'm always curious about Sean, like when whenever I get to talk to a touring musician in particular, is your schedule just too busy to to squeeze any of that in on the road, Because I always wonder, like you travel in the country, you have to end up in some places they would have some pretty damn good fishing, Like is there is there a sixth weight like stashed on the tour bus kind of deal. You know, I have fished on tour before and I need to like make it more of a priority. But uh, yeah, we're we're talking about um because there's now there's a few of us in the crew that that do it. So we're yeah, we're definitely gonna have a little a little road case that just goes with us. But yeah, I've been able to Um, we did we did a house show tour with s carry. Um. We did three of them. Actually this was a few back, but we kind of like planned them around um fishing destinations or you know, we took like three days off between UM SOLTI in Denver and just fished our way. Um. Oh, that's a good strip if you're gonna yeah, if you have right there. So we did that in a couple of places, and you know, brought out all our camping and cooking gear and it didn't feel like tour. It felt like a fishing trip where we had to play shows at night. So well, that's a pretty damn good fishing trip, man, because like all there is normally to do at night is like drink beer and eat mountain house anyhow, So, Sean, in this segment, we like to kind of get into the minds of our guests via some rapid fire Q and A yeah, it's it's uh. We always like to say it's like a it's sort of an interview, except you don't really have any time to think about your answers to our questions. We're just gonna what we do is we're just gonna throw two minutes on the clock and we're just gonna rapid fire some questions at you and then what we'll do though at the end, we promise is give you one minute to elaborate on any of your answers. So the idea is you just just kind of spit them out and then you can elaborate on not anyone that as we always say, like whatever the career ender was, whatever was like ship, I shouldn't have said that, that's the one you can elaborate on. I love it sounds like a good deal. Yeah, let's do it all right. Uh, two minutes on the clock and begin PR Smallmouth or PR Trout Trout, Gibson flying v or B C Rich Warlock, flying Dych Brown on a streamer or an eighteen inch Brookie on a dry fly Brown on the streamer. Okay, because you're from Wisconsin. White cheese cards or orange cheese cards. I don't like them. A career ender, Uh Okay. Money is not a factor without being able to resell it. Would you rather have any vintage synth like a Jupiter eight or some ship or a vintage acoustic guitar maybe like a like a sixty who gives some dove or something like that. M Okay, so I know you're a fly guy, but still testing the limits of that. Would you rather catch a thirty musk on a fly or a fifty or on a live sucker on the sticking the fly man, alright, can't live without it? Fishing accessory? Like what is your like not not not your rod and your real but like what is the can't live without it fishing accessory? Sunglasses? Good one? Okay, alright, first fly rod you ever owned it was a Reddington three forks. Oh yeah, okay, that's a good one. Man. Alright, Skinny Love or Enter Sandman, Skinny bon Jovi or Bond Scott. I don't know who Bond Scott. Okay, alright, alright, favorite DC right, yes, sir, all right? Uh, favorite part of everybody likes a CDC on some level, apparently not that much. Favorite part of tour, Oh the shows. Okay, that's a good part. Okay. One place at other part. One place you've always wanted to fly fish but haven't gotten there yet, Patagonia. Ah, that's a good one, me too. Least favorite part of tour's sort of travel. Okay, last one again, because you're from Wisconsin, Charlie Barons fan or no, yeah, all right, we go that's it. That is man, So we promised you one minute to sort of dive a little deeper into any one of those answers, Sean which an anyone jump out at you? Do you want to tell us a little bit more about I mean, the cheese is gonna no no, no, no no. But I'm not gonna tell you which one to pick. You can pick anyone you want. Um, you know, I'd like to hear more about the cheese curds, but it's it's your time on the floor. Man. I like, I grew up not liking cheese, but I've I've grown more more to like it. But um, whatever, I like them fried, I like whatever cheese curd is. Friend, I just I don't like them. So you've never never eaten enough cheese curds, where like you can't have a bow movement for days, just like days on end, I haven't had that luxury, and it is a luxury. Okay, alright, alright, alright, man, thank you so much for for coming on with us. That was a fun one. Um, so real quick, you're you're you're coming out with your latest soul album. I believe it's your fourth, titled break Me Open on jag Jaguar Uh that will be available April. Tell us a little bit about it. Where folks will be able to listen and where they can find you on tour and on social Yeah. I'm so excited about this record. UM. It's been years in making and UM we are doing two tours in the US and at the end of April we're doing the East Coast and then UM in July and we head out west. UM hoping to bring the fly rod for sure. Are you are you? Are you hitting any days? Hey? Don't I gonna say, don't exclude it in the East Man. If you need some locations, you let me know. I'm a I'm a Jersey Philly gu Yeah. I fished um um in New York and Jersey and Vermont. I think on the right arm. Are you are you? Are you making any stops in Philly? Yep? Where where are you playing? Um? It's full ship, It's it's I don't remember. Do you remember what the room cap is? I might. It's likely a bigger venue than you and I ever played in Philly. Hayden. I think we can kind of leave it out. No, we know for scary we played pretty small room. I think it's part of the World Cafe. Okay and Joe I have played there multiple times. So all right, So, and where can folks find you on social man? Um, I'm a scary picks um on Instagram and uh I'm on Twitter a little bit, um. But yeah, and then music will be on all the streaming platforms and yeah, buy a record if you like that too. Yeah yeah alright man. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming on. I'm really looking forward to the album. I wish you all the best on your tour and uh, all all the fishing excursions bound to be thrown in there. Um yeah, man, thanks again, thank you guys, fan of what you do in the mediator community in general, so thank you. Thanks man. So, yeah, degenerates, check that out. I think you should check that out. Um. But like, how are you gonna not know Bond Scott Like that was a slate, that was a slight red flag. Look look see man, this is where I disagree with you. Like you have factions of you know, when we're talking about classic rocky of like factions, and I sort of put a C d C in with like Alice Cooper Kiss, you know, acts like that. I would never consider them in the same arena as like Cream or Hendrix or The Doors. Um, and I don't like a C d C very much, completely honest. You know, I don't care you don't like Leonard Skinner. I don't like Leonard SKINNERD haven't. Oh yeah I would. I would put like a CDC almost in with anyway. Um then again, my classic preferences are more uh like t Rex Bowie, like I like that glam shit. Then uh then like I don't know, Bob Dylan, Velvet Underground, etcetera, etcetera. Um, all this is said, I think you got like a little too hung up on the bomb. Well, it was kind of a joke. I was also going to throw in the question Bono or Bonzo, but then I didn't. Although I don't know, Sean seemed like a fun guy, like he was having a good time. I probably I like that, dude. I just think it's funny that it's bony there, and like, you know, everybody who reads just like bon Iver, Like I said to you, like who we han't on the bon bon Iver? Is that a guy You're like? No, Well, I don't know. I forget if it made it to the actual interview, but I was like, you know, I've been calling you got like you know, bon Iver, Bony they like da da da da for like years and I haven't really ever dedicated myself to learning the correct pronunciation of it, and like this is the first time that has ever kind of mattered a little bit. He was a sport though. He was good. It was and you guys know I'm not gonna pronouncing stuff. Uh, you know, he was. He was a good sport and uh it was a good time. And you know what else would be a good times that beating your ass one last time in the final showdown, we call fish news. Fish News. That escalated quickly. So you know, we've used the front of News for a year and a half to sort of be our I don't know, our shout out kind of that this is our spot to to shout out listeners and shout out fans, and uh, I think it's only fitting that that we use this space this time as a huge thank you directly to all the listeners. And we have one show left and we're gonna thank you a whole bunch more than um. But yeah, I mean, I I sort of I just feel the need to to just take this this moment right before news to to just thank you guys so much for listening. To news because sometimes news is a ship show. Like let's just be honest, right Like in terms of making the podcast. Okay, news is important, I get it, and we like to keep you up to date on things. Um, but yeah, like it can be a little grindy at times, and um sometimes we're long winded. Sometimes we say dumb ship and you're probably thinking, why would you even flag that as a story because not much was exactly Sometimes things just aren't happening and fishing. But I also want to thank everybody, uh, you know for listening and powering through with uh you know, I mean sometimes why we figured new ship out man, sometimes why we tested new things, why we try new things, and uh and always offering your feedback on either like a follow up to the news story, a correction to the news store We've heard. We appreciated that. One of the best parts of this make no mistake was was incorporating you guys and hearing from you guys. And we certainly hope, at least I do that I keep hearing from you no matter what the future brings. You know what I mean, you guys know where to reach us on the grams and uh yeah, and you know, we embraced every correction and every mispronunciation and tried to give you guys as kids. I don't know, maybe more so do you, um you know, but yeah, I'm gonna miss people messaging. We go and come get your boy. He's over here doing some weird shittya. But yeah, like you you guys, you guys made bent what it was and it's it is said that this is the final news. But also I'm like, man, I don't have to think of any news next week. Like there's a little bit of like damn, you know, I'm not gonna lie. There's a little relief there for sure, But you know what, we gotta finish where we started. And you started this whole conservation minutes thing, so we to the to the last one. We are sticking to it. We're not gonna We're not gonna scrimp. So before we get into it, here's my conservation minute, right. The Center for Biological Diversity filed a legal petition seeking Endangered Species Act protection for the rough head shiner. This is in Virginia and olive colored minnow found only in the Upper James River watership. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, you hang one under under bober it's gone, uh yeah. And there're three inch fish name for the bumps on their heads, um and they live mainly in the cow Pasture River and its tributary creeks in Allegheny, Bath, and Craig Counties. UM. And there's a quote in here from Tiara Curry, a senior scientist at the Center. She says the rough head Shiner is an emblem of the quiet extinction crisis unfolding in our nation's rivers. Endangered Species Act Protection will bring a recovery plan to pull it back from the brink. The shiner was first identified as threatened fifty years ago and was put on a waiting list for federal protection. The state of Virginia has identified it as a species of critical concern, but doesn't have the necessary funding for monitoring or restoration. Final quote here, people ask why save one little fish when there are so many other kinds? But it's like march madness, Curry says, How boring would it be without all of the different teams? She says, the rough head Shiner is like St. Peter's finally getting its day in the sun. I thought that was cute. That is not at all what that's like anyhow, onto my conservation minute uh per Lake County News dot com. California Department of Fish and Wildlife Director Charlton H. Bonhom has assessed entanglement risk under the Risk Assessment Mitigation Program. Otherwise an in his ramp and announced the closure of the commercial dungeness crab fishery in fishing zones three, four or five and six. Uh. God, I knew there was gonna be something I couldn't pronounce here. Uh that's uh, Sonoma and Mendocino County line Mendocino you think, Okay, Mendocino County line to the US Mexico border, effective at noon on April eighth two. Basically, whales can't avoid this is not the quote. Uh. Basically whales can't avoid crab pot lines. So the season is being closed to up less whales. Uh and we we we actually cover this before when it came to alternative devices to avoid uh, the rope the ropeless lobster pots. Right. So I guess the entirety of the commercial crab lobster fishing industry didn't hear my story and immediately change their tune. Weird? Well, they should, they should, They should pipe up it's now We're never crabbing lobster industry, even though those pots are like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Anyway, look to the bitter end, this is a competition. We do not know which story the other guy is bringing this week. That is the truth. And I mean this is gonna be one final legendary way in from Phil though. I think if Phil is available, I think you're gonna hear some some fresh fill, some live film maybe in our final show. But this is the official last news weigh in. I just cannot wait to see what he cooked up. And it's my lead, which is fitting. Um, it's last one. It is my lead. So you know, over the course of Bent, we have rolled our eyes kind of at fish record stories. Right, We've done them time to time when appropriate, and as we've know else, I was gonna say, as we already noted, sometimes we just couldn't find anything better that week, right, And I think the Mighty Phil even once famously said he will not give a win to record stories anymore because there was a period when man, they were just like just flying out the mouth. Um, so how fitting that I close with a record story of sorts. But it's not about a specific record or fish, but records in general. And damn it, I'm doing this to ensure that you walk away from my final news filing with information that you can use to better yourself on the water. That is, that is the damn bent seal of approval as we walk out the door. So this story comes to us from the story, right exactly, that's fine, that's fine anyway. So this comes from the Duluth News Tribune, and it's about data collected by the Lure Love podcast. And what they've done is compiled the most detailed list of record setting lures I've ever seen. Now, this, mind you, is a pretty painstaking process because my understanding, Joe is trying to line up going to the Lure Love podcast. That's where you're gonna hear Joe next. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe that's yeah, That's that's where I'm headed, Guys, the Loure Love podcast. Lure Love, Joe's from Elly. Now, don't make fun of those guys. Let's into what they did, right, I'm so not making fun of you. Okay, Well, that's that's fine. You can do that for forever. Um. So, this is a painstaking process because, as I understand it. While the International Game Fish Association keeps the records, the things that caught each fish are not set up in a database that can be searched or ranked by bait, fly or lore, which means whoever runs that podcast did this ship manually. Here's a quote from the story. The folks at lore Love podcast looked at nineteen thousand, six hundred records for one thousand, six hundred forty nine species of fresh and saltwater fish, including six thousand, seven fourteen current record holders and twelve thousand, ninety six retired record fish that once held the record but have since been beaten. Now, the caveat here is that there are no requirements for the level of detail, and angler has to provide the i g f A when he or she submits a catch. So, as the story notes, some records simply say lure in the space on the forum for what caught the fish. So the fellows at lore Love collected all this data, factored in some of these vague entries, did a little scratch math, and they came up with a few different lists. One was records per lure style, the other was by specific lure brand. So we're gonna add just for sheets, a little touch of trivia here and fishing caught all of that. Can you guess which lure style has claimed the most world record fish? Folks at home, take a second to think about your answer. This is just a style, not a specific lord, just a a category of lure. Am I supposed to guess? Now? Yes, stick bates incorrect. The correct answer is jig now of course, uh. Since jig was such a common answer, it's almost impossible to break jigs out into further categories. But to me, I don't really believe that matters all that much, because in my mind, it's just proof that the action of a jig is hard to beat, and it doesn't really matter what kind of jig we're talking about. A hair jig, right, is pretty much doing the same thing in the water for walleyes as a bucktail jig is doing for stripers, as a flair hawk is doing for snook as a jig and pig is doing for bass. It's the same basic action in the same basic designs. So per the findings these guys findings, jigs of some sort a jig has claimed one thousand, one five world record fish. So next question any guests at the second most record catching lore style spoon. That is correct, spoon spoon is the number two. But here's what's fascinating. Jigs caught one thousand, one five world record fish. Take a swing at the total number of record fish. The number two spoon has caught two seven very close two hundred and eleven, so that that is a staggering difference right between the number one and number two slots for the most world record catching this lure um. The number three spot is held by plastic Worms slash grubs with one world records, followed by Plugs in the number four spot with a hundred and seventy seven world records. Now, as I mentioned, the lure Love team also took the liberty God bless him of breaking down the count by brand, and the number one slot by brand should be no surprise. But let's see how good you are. Which lower brand holds more world records than any other Hashimoto concepts? Uh uh no, The answer is Rapela with a total of four nine world records. And it's it's I said before that Plugs only caught one and seventy seven world records. But Plugs before because I did say that before absolutely I absolutely did, followed by plugs in the number four spot with a hundred and seventy seven world records, but plugs in the other category and the other bracket did not encompass crank baits, top orders and jerk baits. They were all ranked separately, So those four nine records for Rappola are across all categories. Rappla plays in not just the original rapple of floater. UH number two brand any guesses? God, you're such a nerd man. I'm done with this, um number two brand? Um No, I don't have a guess. MAPS takes the number two spot with world records, but interestingly, inline spinners account for only one world records total, So if nine of them belong to MAPS, good for you, MEPs, way to slack off their Panther Martin where you at. Panther has only ever claimed seventeen world records total. Um how many of the Swiss wing I E I'd have to go back to the listening hold on a second, how many in line spinner records were there? So, according to their findings, there are one hundred and ten world record fish that have been caught on inline spinners, and then according to their brand findings. Of those ten were on maps spinners and how many were on the other one, Panther Martin It well, it says seventeen. But keep in mind they don't just make inline spinners. That could be a Panther Martin vivif or you know some of the soft plastic stuff they make, so it's it's not necessarily broken down that way. Welcome to gotcha journalism, folks. Yeah, um, now I found this fascinating. The number three spot goes to yo Zuri, which is fascinating because compared to other brands on that list, it really hasn't been around all that long, so that says something about yo Zuri. Um, it far out ranks brands like Cordell, Rebel and Rooster Tail. So that's it. And props to the lower Love podcast is for doing all that painstaking work so somebody else like me or Hayden didn't have to. Um and as you are, you brought up thirteen. I'm going to make it my personal mission to get a thirteen more ranked world record rock bass on a poppy pop face tune in this summer. Watch it happen live, Well, Joe, what a what a wonderful. Uh you know, I did this kind of the same thing that Shark Trivia, the Hayden Shark a Shark Attack Trivia Challenge quiz show, Hayden's Jaws Pop Quiz Retribution Shark and Shark Attack Trivia Challenge Quiz Show. So your poem I didn't keep RELI yeah. Yeah. As soon as that was done, I was like, it's time for me to leave. No, I'm just kidding. Please enter your password. You have one unheard message, Joe, Joe, well even be here like one of those sad dogs and Sarah McLaughlin commercial. Man, come on, all right, Well, I hope everything turns out good for you, Joe and you get to do all the things in your fishy future. Man, it was a lot of fun. Um. Also you for abandoning, all right by Joe. End of message delete press seven save deleted. Okay, So, for a final time this weekend fish News, I actually did a real story. We're covering something, thank you. Um, we're covering something super heavy and catastrophe. Unfortunately, uh not just kidding. We're gonna end it on a pretty neutral note. Here with the story courtesy of shoal in the Guardian and that's uh, that's two publications, SHOAL and The Guardian. Uh not a maritime themed in the rock band anyway. Uh. SHOAL has just released there are one guide of newly discovered species. The document details of discovery of two and twelve species of freshwater fish, with notable entries given some extra love upfront. Basically, it's a guide to eight or ten fish that are cool slash do cool ship and then a list of a bunch of other less cool fish. Um. We we've actually talked about this right by the way ahead. We've actually talked about the SHOAL organization before. When when I highlighted the discovery of a fish I could have pronounced in an area I also couldn't pronounced. I think it was somewhere in Turkey and I forget. I just remember that Miles called me and gave me a bunch of ship over. Oh yeah, because you couldn't pronounce the Turkish president's name. Yeah whatever, still can't. SHOAL is an organization whose mission it is to discover, rediscover and document fresh water fish is As far as I know, they're the single largest organization highlighting the important but often overlook conservation issues surrounding those fresh water fish. So I got the story from the Guardian. But rather than explicating the article, let's just dive into what you guys really want to hear about the cool fish at the top of the list. Let's start with this banger, the wolverine pleco. Love it. I just love the word pleco. Pleco is good. I've had some plecos and some tanks. Yeah, yeah, well there you go. So uh. Pleaco is an armored catfish, a popular aquarium fish, and in many cases, an extremely invasive species. In fact, I'm pretty sure you you did a store on them in Texas. Texas. They're overrun with what they're around with them some bitches down there. You need some platos. Don't go to pet Smart, go to Texas well. Enter the wolverine pleco. Now, Joe, what is the primary defense mechanism of a catfish, aside from being slippery and breaking leaders right at the boat, all kinds of sharp, pointy spines and junk. Indeed, the spines. Like many other species of catfish, the wolverine pleco has spines, but unlike many species of catfish, the arm replecco has these kind of like spiny arm projections right by its guilt plates, and it's actually able to thrust those at predators and I guess presumably pray maybe maximal thrust. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't say that in the report, but it sounds cool. Uh sorry science anyway. Uh, that's where it gets its name after the X Men character, because of its ability to thrust its spines up its little fish arms. It should also be noted that these things up researchers so much that they included this quote we all had our fingers injured or bleeding by the violence of them trying to pinch us with their big lateral hooks on the head in the official report. Did you just make a salad fingers reference? No, no, I said my fingers hurt, which is uh from everybody knows where that's from. It from Billy Madison. No, it's it's not from Happy Gilmore to Gilmore. That's why I don't deserve to be here, because I just confused Happy Gilmore and Billy Madison. I'm I apologize so much, among other things. Anyway, So there was another notable find, and it came from India. The Mumbai blind Eel a red eyelis demon snake fish. While that in itself is kind of cool, the real coincidence is where they found it. For the report, the eel was found quote somewhat ironically for a blind fish, a forty ft well on the premises of a school for the blind. Okay, And I'd like to point out that this is not the right use of ironically. It's coincidental. It would be ironic if it were found at a school for the visually gifted. That's terrific. There's a T shirt wrapped up in there somewhere anyway. Yeah. So, so finally we have a new species of trout found in Turkey Salmo bliki. Uh. First off, anytime there's like a new trout discovered, I get a little bit excited because one, I like the fishery trout and of the time they're like beautiful fish. This one looks like something halfway between, like a a bowl in brown trout with like dime sized orange spots, Like have you ever seen like somebody post a picture of a brown with like those crazy big like ten twenty scale like orange like you know, yeah, just yeah. It sounds like somebody is already there filming it for the fly Fishing film tours, so we'll see it next season. Yeah. Well that said, Um, this very pretty fish is in a serious peril because by the time researchers discovered it and recognized it as a separate species, it already become the victim of ghost fishing. Ghost fishing, which sounds like what you'd call texting a potential love interest a picture of someone else and then ignoring them forever once they respond. Uh. As far as I could tell, it's just a weird way of saying poaching. Um. Although there are strict rules in place to protect trout in this region, they're often flat out ignored, and the ruralness of the areas in which they're found make regulations basically unenforceable. Anyway. Um, that is that's my wrap on fish News. Buddy, Well, best of luck to the Salmo Biliki. I think they're having the same problems as the timing that everybody loves. They're out there so remotely that you just can't police near we are we are we ending fish News with Joe mispronouncing something. Is it Tayman or tim In? I think Floyd outside of the podcast studio I ask him that was That was a very fun ending to Fish News. That was a good time, and we like to keep the good times rolling here. So this is it. I've spent a year and a half trying to figure out what the hell Phil wants? Phil? What do you want? What was the actual secret to winning? Can you let us know? What do you want? Phil? What did you want from us? This whole time? I just can't handle the pressure, happy man. So we're gonna We're gonna hear from old Phil one more time and then UM, because because I think we all needed and because it's calming and soothing, We've got one more sage Lee Wisdom with the very real river Horse lined up, UM and I I think it is a perfect closer from river Horse, and I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I did Chester Tayman or Timon. I don't even really know how to start this. Um. I'm a little sad, to be honest, and I'm sure everyone listening is to Uh. When I came into this recording that I'm doing right now, I thought, Okay, it's the last fish News. How do I tap myself? Do I kill myself again but actually stay dead? Do I tell another story about a cracking? But this time, make it twenty minutes long instead of just ten like last time. I don't know, but I thought, no, no, no, I'm not gonna do any of that, No pomp and circumstance, nothing special. This is about you, Joe and Hayden, not me. So I'm going to answer your quest. And Joe, what did I want? What was I looking for during all of these fish news segments? What did I want? Well, it's easy. I want you to want me. I've all you to walthy, ivy you me me lovey, I beg you to beg me. Shut up your brown shoes, put on the Brandon shirt, get holder from work. Did you say baginal fynn? See crying? Oh? Dinna see crying? Feel a long French? Know you feel like trying? Oh? Do you not? Did not? Did not see you crying down? Thanks Joe and Hayden, we're all winners today. Whatsout? Hey? Now, this is a river horse coming to you from the Deep South with some sagely wisdom. Today's story is all about getting on a roll in this short, bleating, fragile, and ever beautiful life. There will be some obligatory tides the good times All Hetty and sublime, the tough times, the belly ups, the dust ups that may leave you on the flat of your back, and sometimes even the first place take the trophy finishes far ahead of the pretenders and all points in between. This is all par for the course and how we learn to appreciate the smallest moments for the sweet bounty they are. Life asks us to roll up our sleeves and go full bore, sleep in the dirt, and pay our dues to get to the magical moments out in wilderness, especially with fishing. This story is about unleashing it at a little city park pond, absolutely laying it down baby, opening up a supreme can of war bass with the quickly chosen fly. And it's called L Grande, l Grande. I've gone cross. I've been riding for three days straight on deadline for a fourteen pager about Merle Haggard's former guitarist. The masses in Houston are no doubt going ape ship everywhere. For today is the beginning of a long, sunny spring weekend, so I make it a point to avoid places that aren't far off the grid on the weekends. This afternoon found me in the throes of wanton lust for bass. Just one fish and I could start to put things together again. From golf courses to ranches, country clubs, lakes, rivers behind mcmansion's and city park ponds. They are endless, corpulent Texas bass. Within minutes, with just a couple hours to go until dark, I hit the closest run from the Bungalows front door and as expected, have to park the truck on the grass since it was packed to the rafters. I don't bring much to easy local runs like these. A little seven ft three way with the sixteen pound leader and a handful of my favorite fly in the world, the Umpqua diving frog. Most of us all have a go to fly. This is mine. They say you need all sorts of flies for bass, but I could give a rats ass about what people say. I'd rather probe top water and the weedy shallows and coves, then go subsurface, no matter what fish I might miss out on. Anything else is dredging to me. I'll admit it. I get off watching that little green frogs bit, hump and growl all the way home if the bite is on all fish. If not, fine, I'll hang on the banks and have a sandwich of beer and a nap. This city park is small. It doesn't take more than thirty minutes to work your way around it. I wedge in between the hordes of good old boys with bobbers and with only a couple of seconds. Damn if that frog pupper doesn't deliver the goods. I can attest that my fishing abilities are not really anything special. I put in my time, But some days there's been plenty of brutal skunks, schoolings and tails between the legs all the way home drives. Not to day, I stopped six times and six sweetheart baths and nail the frog and go hay wire while the piste off glares come from all sides. There hadn't been any fish cut all day until now when I showed up, and then six in a row. I'm on the final stretch of water, a fifty foot cluster of reads, cattails and lily pads, without much room for a badcast. I lean up for one mast, go round, and that's the swim frog lands. It goes down in an implosive swirl on a three weight. You know, pretty damn quick when things are serious. Unable to high stick this one. The rod submerges a foot under the water, and I just let him burrow and run. A giant crowd gathers behind me while all the other fishermen just stare with brownie faces. I finally dragged the enormous, fatass bass to the bank, and I hear screams, shouts, howls, and cheers from the rabbit gallery. El Grande, El Grande, El Grande, Oh yes she is. Let's agree that fishing it is not always about fishing, and it's often brutally humbling. Some days you get the chicken, other days just the feathers. But for those who say fishing is not about catching fish, oh bullshit. I hold El Grande a law for all to sea. Feeling like I just shot the moon. The throngs of kids are jumping up and down, hooting and pumping fists into the sky. Cell Phone cameras chirp away. I see the expectant characters with obscene cooking forks and hands, and drool forming on their lips. As the smoke from all the barbecue grills and the park gently loats into the skies, El Grande is released with redemption on his lips. The entire park goes utterably silent. And that's our sagely wisdom for this time, my brothers and sisters. And remember never be afraid to let them go on to be cut another day. If your table is already full of goodness and your freezer, you'll reap the bounty and the days ahead you just watch. Now, get out there and find your own groove. I will see you along the path. So I couldn't think of a more fitting final stage lee wisdom. I swear I did not have river Horse penn that around my departure. In fact, I didn't even ask the guy for a new stage Lely wisdom like the Venemo payment. No no, no, no, there's no dude. Literally like this is how river Horse operates. I'll be I'll be like falling asleep at midnight and all of a sudden, it's just like my my phone lights up and there's like ten new audio files from river Horse's has to like cup your night a little bit. Man, you're dripping off so peacefully and now it's like four am and you're staring at the ceiling. Well, but he seems like one of those guys where it's like when inspiration hits, he's going right now like you're gonna hear his words right now. But I listen to that one when he said it, and I said, man, this just works so much of what he said they're resonated with me, particularly putting them back. If you're played is full. And I hope I actually get to spend some time with that guy someday. I would really love that. Did you ever tell him about that note we got from that one listener that said his voice makes his girlfriend to act and he's not sure if he likes it. I did. I did tell him that one fight for the last time. What just as a reminder, River horses very real. People have been speculating that he's a made up character and he is not. You need to follow him on the gram and read his writing because he is one of a kind. Anyway, Uh, you know, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna close out this week's show with the o G closer, the original closer, that being end of the line. We're gonna skip the bent helpline here, but stick around because we're gonna do a night fishing. Um. But this was always one of my favorite segments to put together. I've always loved the end of the line. But I'm actually gonna let Hayden give us one final end of the line entry here because um, while I may have had more end of the lines over the last year and a half, some of yours have been my favorites. So let's find out which fly you cannot live without. Well, that's not loud enough. Spring is finally starting to make its way out west, and that's great because I'm just about over fishing through through two ft of ice. In the observation of a particularly beautiful afternoon, I recently decided to get out and make a quick afterwork hit on one of my favorite little streams just north of town. I got to the water and I looked in my box. I pretended to consider this fly and that fly, but I knew what I'd end up tying on. And it's a fly I've talked about here on the podcast often, that faithful fishy size twelve tongue heads CDC soft tackle pheasant tail nymph with the orange hotspot. It's been my go to for years and I think it always will be. Pheasant tails are my favorite nymphs period. You can keep your Waltz worms, your Paradagon's your hair's here. I don't know what it is about them, but man, those things just fish. And sure my version of it is far from classic. I mean, it's tied on a jig hook, but the classic tie works beautifully as well. But what is the classic tie when we're talking about a pheasant tail nymph? To answer that, we need to go all the way back to the invention of the pheasant tail and its inventor. Frank Sawyer was a was first river keeper on the Avon at Lake in Wiltshire, managing six miles of river right by modern day Stingshouse. I know that's not really relevant to the story, but I think it's funny that Sting owns that place now and I had to work that in there anyhow. Sawyer worked there for about three years until moving on to the Officers Fishing Association, which is now known as the Serve His Dry Fly Fishing Association. The s d f f A is a fishing club along the River Avon, and it's open exclusively to active duty and retired military as well as a very few number of civilians. Sawyer worked there until his death. As a river keeper at the Services Dry Fly Fishing Association UH Sawyer spent his life on the water and eventually became known for not only his stewardship, but for his his sunken nymph fly patterns as well. In he developed his most enduring of those patterns, the pheasant tail nymph. The pheasant tail is considered one of the oldest modern nymph patterns that we use today. The original tying of the pheasant tail nymph is unique by today's standards for one main reason. It did not include the use of thread. In fact, the original pheasant tail only included fibers from the tail of a cock pheasant and copper wire. After tying the pheasant tail, fibers in the wire and fibers would be twisted together before being wound around the hook shank to form the body of the nymph. Tying in this way achieved two things. It created a durable body and a certain amount of flash where the wire would peek out in between the fibers. Today, we mostly fish a variant of the original pattern, the most basic of which is only a small departure from Sawyers with the inclusion of a peacock hurl. Thorax I like to fish a variant with soft tackle and a beadhead. There are endless ways to modify the pattern, and no matter where you go, you're likely to find some local variant that, for one reason or another, seems to outfish all others. One thing I know is that Sawyer's inspired pattern will forever be my go to, And no matter where I'm fishing, when it comes to trout, You're more likely than not to see a pheasant tail nymph on the end of my line. So that's it for this week, degenerates. We've got one week of bent left and we're gonna close out doing a little reminiscing having some laughs. So join us. However, I regret to inform you, God that we we no longer need you to keep sending those awkward moments sale items. Barner. We need you, but we don't need the We don't need, we don't need the you stick around, keep your emails to yourselves. Uh, you can stop sending all that, John to Ben at the mediator dot com. So um, yeah, and uh, and how about a little uh. We've talked about the hashtags, Joe, Yeah, what about a little note on the hashta Here's what I'm gonna say about the hashtags, right, Uh, bent or not, You'll always be degenerate anglers, so will I, so will Hayden. So I vow to keep monitoring the degenerate angler hashtag on the Graham. You know I'm a people person, um. I love shooting the ship with you guys on social. Unlike Miles, who disappeared on social when he left, I shall not because I know how to set up a goddamn Instagram account properly. So yeah, and I'm trying to be an influencer, so I'll be there too. I'm just kidding, but you know, I'm one thing that we might look forward to on social. Joe Is, I might even start tie along Tuesday's back. You should, I talk? You should? You should keep doing tie along Tuesday's hell. I might even join you now and again. Anyway, I can't tell you guys how much fun it has been making this show. And while every week has been a blast, some bits just stood out more than others. That's a hint for next week. Yes, we're gonna go full on mystery science theater Ben style. I might even drink a red beer while we're doing you know, I gotta say so night fishing was your idea and I liked it, and I am I am sorry that we are not going to continue that on because I do love a good secret track. Um, but full disclosure. Like throughout this you have been a little like I'll just let it, just let it go. Answer as many questions as we want. I'm always the guy like, no, there is their schedule, there is time, there is we have to be finished by only four pick four and today. To be honest with you, man, like we're just you have there. I am looking at a lot of questions here and I will we can answer them all. I give zero ships right now. We can make this a whole another two hour podcast for all I care. All right, well let's try. Alright, so folks, well see where we go. Just go with the flow. Okay, So folks, welcome to Night Fishing. Um. This is the thing that we did once and now we'll have done twice. Um we're second times. It's charm. Yeah, we're gonna answer some of your most most pertinent questions. And because this is the last ever installment of Night Fishing, I figured, uh, you know, hell, we'll we'll see how many we can get to. So there is no time on the clock. We're just gonna kind of rip through as many as we can and then uh yeah, I'll be it. So Joe, we're gonna start with this one. This comes from and all these resources on Instagram. This comes from Wally eight nine one. If you had one fish to fish for for the rest of your life besides snakeheads and bourbon, which is I assume referencing our personal inclinations, what would that fish be. Mine would be bourbon. Mine would be snakeheads. There you go, Wally, na, Uh, that's come up with me before you know. There is no one there. There's not like I can whittle it down to fresh and salt. I guess it would be striped bass and wild browns. Those are my two. Like if I if I really had to pick two stripers and wild browns for me, Ali, Yeah, I mean like okay, so from like the sporting aspect and like where they take me, I would have to go for just like trout, you know, maybe even cut throats, just because I think they're cool and they live in beautiful places and I don't know, there's like a certain like poetic element to uh to trout fishing. If I were to go for like something that I really want to eat a lot um you know, probably like tuna, something like that, some some good, some like sashimi. Well yeah, I mean I could. I could answer that question, like, if I had to pick one, it would be tuna. But I ain't got that kind of money, Wally, Tuna is expensive, you know what I mean? Was a financial constraint on it? All right? So well then I just pop tuna like endless summer all, you know, all summer long in the Northeast, and then I'd go to Australia. So that's when I would go there. You go, all right, So Joe, if the format of these, I'm just gonna keep pitching them to you. You lead off off all you Uh. This one comes from Derek the fancy caveman who asks been to Manitoba? Are you hunting the spring any bear plans? No, No, and no I've not been to Manitoba. I'd like to. I'd like to go to bc BC people you have been riding me on that I have. I have never found my way to British Columbia. I've done Saskatchewan way up north and it was one of the coolest, top five coolest trips I've ever been on. In my life. That was a pike trip. Am I hunting the spring? No? Any bear plans, no, believe it or not. There was a time, boys and girls when I did both hunt and fish. Um, and then eventually I was like, I'm just the fish guy, So no none for me. Alright. Well, UM, my answers are no, yes and uh and yes. Um. I've never been to Manitoba. I am definitely hunting this spring. Um. You know, for all the fishing that I do, I do about an equivalent amount of hunting. Um. And then any bear plans, you bet man. Um, I'm gonna be hunting bears in Montana. And then I have a pretty cool mule der tag. And in part of scouting mule deer for next season, I'm gonna shoot down to Idaho where I picked up a bear or tag as well, so you know, we'll see what happens. I'm only going to shoot one bear. I think you know. I know I'm only gonna shoot one bear. Um, just because you don't need to shoot two bears in a season. But um, but yeah, so those are those are my bear plans. Next question, fih Daddy four oh one asks, Yeah, he's he's he's a he makes a bunch of molded baits. I don't know if you found that dude on Instagram, but yeah, well now, yeah, I've watched some of his live live ties, live pores. I guess. Um he asks least favorite species to catch walleyes and the my last opportunities. This is like my last opportunity on Ben to take a dump on walleyes, and I will continue to do it. Mad. Respect for the people who are good at catching them, I get it, but as a fish to target, they suck. I'm sorry while I suck. Yeah, my least favorite is rock bass. I always get bummed. Really how he's mad at rock bass like an American treasure. Well, a couple of reasons. Number One, I'm always fishing for something else when I catch them. Number Two, I've never eaten one, so, like, you know, maybe they're amazing like table fair, but like it's just not something I've experienced. It's funny you bring that up. No, well, I don't know. I've never eaten them either, But um man, this has come up. I've written about it in years past, Like when I was a kid, there were rock bass everywhere around here, every stream, like they were, dude, they're getting harder and harder to find in the Northeast, and there's something to that that nobody can quite figure out, but many people have agreed, like, yeah, shure, we don't catch rock bass the way we used to. I do still have a couple of spots. Would it surprise me if like the stocking of other game fish is kind of like pushing maybe, but you brought up, you brought up eating him. I was fishing in West Virginia years ago in the New River, and man, you catch some stud rock bass between the Smalley's there and those West Virginia boys. I mean, you know, dude, they'll they'll they'll fry up anything down there, but they're not a huge fan. They it's they say it tastes okay, but it's a very kind of soft, mushy meat. So great. It's always kind of like the inkling that I got when it when it came to your rock bass. And also like I'm kind of like scarred because like any time my dad would be bass fishing and called a rock bass, which is often or I called a rock bass, which was often he go rock bass. I like your dad, that's yeah, And so and so like I just kind of have that forever like etched. Um, I'm gonna start. You can tell your dad, I'm gonna start using that every time I catch one. Okay, So Grant Burger would working asks if you could write your own travel slash fish species specific book, what would it be? Mine would be I'd title it the Complete Guide to Serve Casting. It's actually a book that already exists. You can look it up Grant on Amazon and purchase yourself a copy, do a brother of favor. Otherwise, I can't disclose any of that because I can't. I can't, couldn't. I I'm not spitting out future book ideas, though I do have some. Yeah, um, if I could write, I would uh what you can know? Um? Yeah, I don't know what that would be, man, Like you know, part of me wants to do a see. It's kind of conflicting because a lot of the stuff that I'm passionate about is rooted in like a semi esoteric knowledge. And I talk a lot about blue lining brook Trout and so like a blue line guide and like maybe a some thoughts on blue lining and the sort of places that it takes. You would be something that I'd be interested in writing about. But but I don't want everyone to go and start doing that just because like those little streams can take like you know, barely any pressure. And the reality is is like if you particularly out east man, if you start talking about like even vague terms like drainages, you know, you can pretty much be like, Okay, he's talking about one of fifteen tributaries. But in my opinion, that's a writable book without getting too specific. I mean if I if I, if I were forced to write that, baby man, but like I wouldn't like straight tactics and and sort of what to look for without being very specific. Yeah, but that's kind of like the beauty about blue lining. Man. It's like it's very like while we're waxing anyhow. Um. One of the things that I like about blue lining is that it's a really good way to learn how to read water and understand fish because it's so a b like, you know, there aren't a lot of like questions left on the table. If a fish doesn't take the fly that you present to it in a blue line, um, you know, either you're just like not fishing the right technique for that period of time, or your cast and drift were bad most of the time. If you put on an elk care cat is any time from March to uh, you know, November. And I mean I I wouldn't suggest fishing through October, by the way, because that's when the brook trouter spawning. But if you if you were to do that, um, you would get hit as long as your drift was right and your cast was good. Um. So that's what I really like about blue lining is actually like the kind of tactical deficiency and more of just like the feedback on your skill. Yeah, and you're right, you're now what you're talking about, because I just think it's easy as shit, Like it's just easy fishing. It's easy fishing. So like I love wild brook trot as much as the next guy. But whereas I know you're the guy that will follow that stream up for miles, I'll do the first quarter mile and like catch a whole bunch and then I'm like, all right, now where do we now? What do we do? Like I can't doesn't hold my interest all day, right, and again, like I think that it is easy fishing. But and if you're a beginner listening to this, Um, I would check out Blue Lining. Um. Number one, you're gonna find a lot of opportunities that you didn't know were there. Number two, you're gonna be surrounded by a lot of that kind of water that that you kind of think of when you think about fly fishing for trout. And then number three, it really is a good way to learn how to read the water and you know identify like, oh, that was a good drift, and I can tell because I got hit and that was a bad drift because I'm reading the water. I know there's a bucket right there, and I know that there's a trout in it. And if it didn't hit, it's because like something was wrong with my drift. I got some weird drag or something. But anyway, that's the book that I would write. Well, if I were to write a book, Listen, people are so desperate to get out and away from people right now. If you draft a really good Blue Line, Brooke would probably sell. Because that's another thing I've learned, like your first book is often your passion project, and after do you see how much time goes into that passion You're like the next one's got to make money or I'm not doing it, so maybe we'll do this question anyhow. This one comes from d h A. Lab Dan, who actually started the comment thread that ended up getting me hired here. Yeah, he says our family friendly fishing boats, and I believe like by that he means like ski fish hybrids like the Yamaha f S H two ten actually fishy um M. I'll lead off with this one. I grew up learning how to fish on on one of these boats. It's like a stratus. I think it had like somewhere in between the live wells. We could throw up a ski pylon and the problem was, though it's like it's still had a lot of bass boat behind it, so you wouldn't even notice. But you'd be going, Um, you'd like have your buddy Jack on the tube behind you, and your your dad would be like bumping up that motor to the point that next thing you know, you're going fifty miles an hour. Jack's hanging on for dear life. You hit a bump, Jack gets launched, the inner tube thing gets caught under his nose, rips of gash across his face, and now you're at the hospital. Um that actually talking about right now? How is this answering the man's question. Uh, Dan, the family friendly? What this this question doesn't make a lot of sense. I could did a quick search on the Yamaha f Ace whatever to ten. It's just a little center console, that's all. It's just a little it's just a little center console. So I'm not talking about I thought he was talking about one of those like, um, they're advertised like ski sport hybrids. Uh No, I googled it and it's it's it's just a little Yamaha twenty one ft center console. So I don't quite understand by fishy, Like, dude, you can fish on an inner tube if you know how to fish. I mean, I don't see. I don't know if it's a good boat or anything. But it's just it's just a little just a little center console, so I would say, yes, it's probably fishy. Wait hold on, Joe, hold on, I'm not even gonna have this be edited out. I'm just gonna send you this thing that i'm looking at right here. Here is what I learned how to fish on. Did you get it, Joe? I did? Yeah, But I mean that's technically like a that's a that's actually a fishing boat. That's not. Yeah, well I'll tell you what, see jo. This is where like I for once and more experienced than you, and this it is a ski boat because it had this like stupid little pylon that you had these like rivets by the live wells and you'd screw a ski pylon into where you're It's called the ski fish, which means it does both things. Yeah, you know, I got you. I got you. Um but anyhow, um okay to answer your question, bro, Yeah, you can fish from they're they're fine fish from anything that floats, Dude, if it floats, you can fish from it. Yeah. And uh, if you're looking to do like ski activities, towing, tubing things like that, heed my tubing warning. And if you get into wakeboarding later, man, they don't throw a particularly good weake, so like you're not gonna be able to jump a whole bunch, you're gonna look like a dork. Um any out. Jared Curland Jared dot Curland asks what's the best way to get involved with guiding? Take a whole bunch of people who don't want to listen to you fishing and see how you feel at the end of the day before you decide that and don't charge them because that's illegal. It's a tough one, man. I would just say it depends on where you live. Like if you're lucky enough to live in in in high tourist destinations like Montana that have a lot of shops. I mean, you link up with a shop or an outfit there. Maybe you start by just sweeping the floors in the fly shop and work your way up. Um, out here, there really aren't a lot of outfitters. You just kind of go independent. You just kind of do it. You just put yourself out there after getting appropriately certified. Well yeah, yeah you got and then how you get certified varies state by state. Um. But I don't know. Involved with guiding or being a guide, I don't know. It sort of depends on on what it is want to do. I mean, you can always find a gig in Alaska, but depending on your experience level, you know, you might not like the gig. Um. But really, before anybody considers people ask me all the time, why don't you guide on the side. Whyn't you get in the the side? I said, and I've said this on this show. I love taking new people fishing if they want to go fishing and learn and listen as soon as like you like no better, even though you've never done the ship we're doing. I'm like, then, I'm just gonna crush you with a rod and I don't care. I don't care about your success anymore. I don't have the patients. Um, so make sure you have that before you get involved in any kind of guiding. Yeah. Um, I'm just gonna echo what Joe said. Uh, getting involved in a fly shop, uh and working your way up is a pretty good way to go, I guess if you're committed to it. Um. The reason being is that eventually, you know, one of those fishing guides will be too hungover to take folks out. And yeah, next thing you know, you're driving. You're driving down to the boat rent with a bunch of people who don't want to listen to you. A lot of times the shop a lot of times the shopper outfit or also covers your insurance because that ain't cheap. Yeah, and that's actually uh some an insurance esque question is gonna come up later. Okay, So this comes from Underscore, Have Gun, Will Travel, he says, ask Joe to walk us through how he makes fly leaders for pike again, Joe Walkers how to make up. I'm gonna try and not walk it too long because it's it's uh, it's it's kind of boring. But um, I always I'm usually fishing pike with a sink tip line, whether it's slower fast regardless. So I just used like a straight shot like four ft a thirty pound floor carbon and then I love, um Courtland's st ten is there tiable uh steel leader? It actually comes on a coil like tipp it, So I all bright not from the thirty pound to you know, a foot long section of that steel leader. Then I put a perfection loop in the end of the steel and use a really good quality clip so I can just quickly clip flies off on and that's it done, donezo. So the whole thing is about five ft total. I like a short leader. Cool. Dj Roloff asks, Uh, what peeves do you have about phishing media? You go first, um, um, what peeves do I have about phishing media? Um? You know, I think, uh, I think we address that and a lot of the stuff that we do in that a lot of it doesn't show. Um, a lot of it doesn't show. Things are like accessible to folks. You know, a lot of it doesn't show the the you know, the the reality of what fishing is to the average person. And like, I'm going to get on like a stump speech for a second here, man, fishing is important and accessible fishing is important, and here's why. Uh. In my mind, when you're trying to bring people into like the outdoors in a meaningful way, you you wanted to have fun, but like you want them to become effective lifelong conservationists, right, and like that's like a commitment that can only be made with like joy and enthusiasm. M Um. That joint enthusiasm comes from an appreciation of all the natural world has to offer, and a good way to develop that appreciation is by experiencing what the natural world has to offer. And fishing, in my mind, is the single most accessible way for the average person to do that. So in showing more accessible fishing and outdoor media, like, that's what I would want for it. So it's not like so much a peeve is like a desire, like I want more representation of accessible fishing in outdoor media. Yep, yep, no, And I agree with that, man, that's a really good answer. I'm gonna keep mind very short and sweet, and I'm certainly not going to name names. Um. What what bothers me is there are a lot of very successful people in fishing media these days, with very large followings, and if you know anything about fishing and pay attention to them, even in the slightest most of them have very little to no idea what the hell they're talking about. They just don't have the background experience. They haven't really done shit, they haven't really been anywhere, they haven't really learned anything. They are just spouting off crap, which is fine, right, but it's like, man, these are the people that maybe that that kid or that next generation, like they're going to get them into fishing. And like I watched some of these things and I'm like, you sound so dumb, right, you have no idea what you're talking about. So it just it it. I am always wanted to be like, if I don't know, I'll tell you I don't know. I know, I don't know anything about doing that kind of fishing. I don't know anything about this. Um I can find out for you talk to some good people. But I value authenticity and I think authenticity works if you can admit that you're not an expert. That's fine, that's still authentic. But the amount of people out there that I just watched this ship and I'm like you, you just have no clue what you're talking about right now. That bothers me. M So. Carnivore eight seventy asks do fish caught through the ice taste better than fish caught during the summer? Uh? Do? That's one of those weird things. I want to say, yes, Like I do believe that not even necessarily ice, just cold water verse warm water. Um, but is there science behind that? There could be, If there is, I'm not aware of it, but I would say yes to that. Something called out of cold water always seems to taste better than something called out of warm water. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I'd agree with that. Cold Boy seventeen says you have one species and one method of fishing for life? What is it? Oh? God, I don't. I don't never know how to answer these. That's that's like saying you not to bring up golf again. But like you can play any course in the world, but you can only take your putter, Like, no, I don't, I don't know, I don't know. I love I love all types of fishing too much, Like I, do you have an answer for that? Like, do you have a true answer for that? Be up. I'm going with my boy Corey Calkins drifting down the yellowstone fly fish and big stupid foam bugs for big stupid brown trout. Mm hmm yeah, I can't whittle that down. I'm sorry, Colby, colboy whatever. Moving on. Um M k Row seventy two says, is the guide or the client responsible for replacing broken equipment? Oh that's a good question, um man, that seems too so. I've been on on charters before where that's like written in blood, like you sign a thing like anything you break you buy. That's not I don't. I don't want to say that's the norm. Most of the time it is not, so I think in most cases, is it your responsibility? No? I mean, like if you break a rod, it's like, well, that dude just took a business hit for the day. He's probably had rods broken before. But should you because you're a good human being and like now you just cost this guy? Hell yeah you should. I would. I I mean that with without without a doubt, especially if I did something stupid if his rod breaks because he had a chip in it that he didn't know about, one thing. But like if you're being an ass hat and like smacking it off the gunnal, yeah, you should absolutely, yeah. I mean, you know, depending on what happens. If you're like, you know, cranking on a fish and like you're not doing anything like dumb in the rod just like explodes. You know, that's like one thing. If you have casted it into a tree and you know, you keep you know, can't indicay in it and trying to pop it out, and like the rod breaks, maybe you ought to pay for it. On the other hand, if like the guide says, pointed it like the tree and you do that and you pull it out and the split shot that you were using comes back and obliterates the rod, that's not really your fault, man, that's not your fault. You know it It varies, man. Look, the bottom line is these guides, um, you know a lot of them are working out of shops, in which case is actually the shops equipment you know most times, and like the shop realizes that that's just something that comes to the territory. Same as like renting rods, right, ye. Um, you know, if you're going out with a guide that you know is a sole proprietor, um, you know, maybe offer to maybe offer to pay for it. But it's a case by case. Man. If you're acting like an ass and you break a rod, you know you got what was coming and you ought to pay for it. If it was a pure accident, like hey, rod's break sometimes. Man, that's just what it is, alright, Moving on, um J d N forty four says, what's the dumbest or sketchiest thing you've ever done to catch a fish? Man, that's a really awesome question. I feel like I should have this mega answer, and if I had more time to think about it would probably probably pop into my brain. But the one that all that comes the top of my head was in my hardcore surf fishing days. Like in college, Um, I used to do a lot of jetty hopping and I remember skipping class one day to catch a certain tide and I got down to this particular jetty and took one look at it and I knew it was too big to do it, Like it was stupid, like it was too kicked up. And the jetty comes out like an L, So you have the main jetty pointing straight east off shore, and then about halfway out you have an L shooting off to the north, and the stripers would would feed in that elbow like in that nook, and I I looked at it, and I was like, this is really stupid. But I drove all that way and I skipped class to go fish it. And you can easily talk yourself into going, well, it's not that bad. It's not that bad. And I was all by myself, and I went out on that L and luckily at the time because I was still keeping stripers, I had a jetty gaff. I had a Calcutta long jetty gaff. And I went out like a couple of couple of waves broke and it was not that big a deal, Like I just held my ground and started fishing, and I I wedged the jetty gaff into the rocks next to me, and um, I looked down for about three seconds to to change out a plug and just got my feet taken right out from under me. And luckily, on my way off the back side of that jetty, one hand caught the gaff that was still wedged in the rocks and I had two more break over me while I was hanging on, and it's scared the living ship out of me. But I just got up and and got off, and UM, that was dumb. That was dumb. I knew I shouldn't have been out there, but I was. Yeah. I mean, I don't have anything quite like that. Um. But you know, I think the common thread here is underestimating heavy water. UM. You know. I remember I was steel head fish in one time and there was a bunch of pressure where I. Where I was was on Salmon River, and I knew that there was a spot that I could probably cross because I'd gone over in a boat before with my buddy Scott, and I'd like, let to see the bottom. I was like, oh, you know, that looks like kind of like an incognito place across and if you crossed, you would you would get access to a large portion of bank that a lot of folks didn't have access to. Um. So I remember, Um, I remember just kind of like almost losing it in the middle of winter by myself in like a real sketchy spot. Also on the Salmon River, I was fishing across from this. Uh, I was fishing, and which is now, and I had waited across. I had come out like I don't even really think I got on the opposite bank, which is like technically which is like private, but like I'm fishing from the opposite side of opposite side for everybody fishes. And one of the stewards came down to me. He was like, hey, um, you know, I saw you come down across this way, and you know, I just want you to know that, like, if one of our clients wants to uh wants to fish here, you're gonna have to move. Um. And and this is I don't know if I a should be saying this, but whatever, this is why I don't like the So in a huff, I was like called the warden man like I I didn't like I was. I was like, I didn't do that. You know, you can, you can tell me you're whatever, but I didn't do that. Um. So basically like I had like some words with this dude, and I was just like, you know what, fine, And I just like I went to like cross back, like I was real annoyed, but I had missed the shelf by like just a touch, and so I start crossing back and I realized that the line that I'm taking is not good man. But but but like I'm piste off and committed, so there's no going back, there's no spinning around the amount. Yeah, I know this position. Yes, So I'm like, I'm just gonna do this or I'm gonna die doing it. And I did not die doing it. But that was a pretty I guess that's not the dumbest thing I've ever done to catch a fish, but maybe one of the dumber things have done to prove a point. I've had so many sketchy aids, and I don't want to tell a whole another story, but the one that's most memorable. I got across and I picked the spot where we were crossing the broad Head and this was Father's Day weekend. And I got across and turned around to see my poor old man and in the middle of this heavy flow, waist deep with his flimsy little waiting stick looking at me like if I don't die, I'm gonna kill you. The second I get over to that bank, and it was like the most hair raising five minutes of my life. It was one of those deals where like you just were waiting, like I was like, he's gonna get taken off his feet any second. And I picked the spot. I picked the spot, and now there's no going back, there's no turning around. You are going forward. Luckily he made it, and then we had a nice dinner at shown Ease or something. Yeah. Man, that broadhead is funny, dude, because there are some stretches of it that you're like, oh, this is a peach, and there are other stretches of it where you're like, you could go in there and never come back. All right. Um. Piker seventy two asks, Uh, why do people who have a boat doc get pissed when other people fish it? Like gold Dude, I'm fishing. I think he means from a boat. Well, yeah, he does mean from a boat. Um. So I have two thoughts on that. On a lake, I don't get it. I mean, if you have if you have a basketbat and you're pulling up in the middle of the day to somebody's dock and flipping his dock, I don't get it. They just must feel like whatever bass live under that dock are their bass now in the saltwater scene. On the other hand, if I had waterfront property with the dock, I would absolutely pay the money to have green lights put out on that dock, because there is nothing more fun than night dock fishing in saltwater when the lights bringing all the bait and their stripers and snook and whatever you have is just there. Okay, But then if you roll up on a boat and fish my lights, now I'm pissed, even though you have every right to do so. I would be furious. But if I had a lakefront home and a dude rolled up and flipped it, I wouldn't give a damn like good for you, man? Okay? Ethan sense that asks uh, any tips for dealing with potentially aggressive waterfowl around your fishing spot? Yeah? Man, um a CEO two powered pellet? Gun? Uh, I want to talk? Is a federal offense. I don't do that, Martin, whatever you got, Yeah, I don't know, man. Uh you know Number one? Why wide wide birth? I assume he's talking about geese, and that's always do that. The nesting season always coincides with opening day around here. So I mean, how many times in your life like you're just a walking him a trout hole and then get that you're like ship like turn around, walk around him. I mean, I don't know. You know, I don't know how many times it's happened to be. My first inclination is always like there's a big snake. Yeah, oh yeah, dude, it catches you way off guard. All right, So Thomas n y EU that could be Thomas and I guess, uh going to the PM first Steel next week? Are four guys too many for a drift boat? Will we be laughed at? Yes? Yes, yes you will too many. I don't I don't know what kind of drift boat you're dealing with. But even like the biggest stealth craft i'm aware of, four is too many. Um, it's not that it's probably unsafe. Like I'm thinking about my boat sixteen foot? Could I row four people in it if I had to? Yeah? But none of you're gonna be able to fish like you're not. You're not gonna be able to fish unless you're so using it to hop out and fish a run, and and and and he said it's like a shuttle whatever if all, if three out of four, you think you're gonna be like swinging intruders with sink tips, uh safety glasses at them? Yeah, and and if that's a four guys on a guides drift boat, meaning that there are five dudes way above the maximum. Yeah, he won't let you do that. I highly doubt it. I might, Okay, Cakey Codes, I don't know what that means. Uh asks should adults be able to fish on youth mentor Day? Truthfully, Cakey Codes, I am not really aware of whether they can or cannot. So I don't know how to answer that, Like if the mentor how do I mentor you if I can't teach you how to cast, which means I might have to cast for all I know this person is correct and on youth Mentor Day the adult cannot fish, But I I, I don't know. I yeah, but I'll tell you what, man, I will tell you what. I bet you if they've let adults fish on youth Mentor Day, a lot more kids would go fishing. Well that's yeah, probably you're right. You So, so as far as like that's concerned, like, yeah, you know, I would say, like that would be a cool thing to let folks, do you know, kind of give you, aside from the joy of children, a a reward for you know, taking kids fishing. But you know that's just me all right, out of the round, asks, if I go ten car fishing and an old red neck and a cane pole is fishing, can I still look down on them? No, because your ten car fishing. I was gonna say, sure, you can, in fact still look down on them. But if it gets ugly, he's gonna beat your ass because that cane pole would snap the ten car rod right in half if it went full on sword fight. They are much stronger than your ten car rod. Alright. And last but not least cmh o Boza or cm Hobosa or see m hobos. I don't know how it how it said asks like like many of you asked, when are you taking Phil fishing? I feel like I feel like I've failed Phil. You should take Phil fit You could take Phil fishing so many times it's just like yeah, it just like never works out. We tried to go duck hunting to man Um. You know, uh, I will tell you what. If there's one person who deserves a free fishing trip from the Bent Fellows, it's Phil Taylor h and and and and despite my departure, Phil knows he has an open invitation. I even have an Ikea futon here for him any time, any time, Phil