00:00:06 Speaker 1: Well, you know, like when the eggs rot a little bit and get discolored in the water. Dead egg. I'm like, get out of here with that ship a dead egg, kidney pellet fly. If you have fifty six stripers on hand, why are you eating a possum? Anglers could get at least three lures out of one straw, And I mean straws are essentially free. Right, you can walk into McDonald's goll gonna do a straw, right, jeez, Joe, what beat decent? Good morning, general anglers, and welcome to Bent, the fishing podcast that's been standing on this rock since four am so we can show off its fishing prowess by beating up on a bunch of fresh pellet heads. I'm Joe Surmelie, and I'm hating Samacuh. You gotta love that forty year old guy like just gunning sticks and like we're Oh, I don't think people are gonna know what that means, smoking sticks, burning heaters. I knew what you meant, and I know that guy, Yeah, just issuing a good old fashioned stocker beat down in front of like dozens of like father and son teams trying to have a bonding moment to put a couple on the stringer, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, man, like and look and teach their own right. That's how guys, that's I grew up in that scene, right. I know that guy well. And sometimes it just feels good to rattle a chain stringer, hey, and you know, just and you know what, sometimes that guy'll bring you up onto his rock if you're a little kid, and he'll show you how to throw the meal worm, and he'll let you just wail on the stockers from he'll give you. He'll give you a Marlborough light it up anyway. Look, I I I know that that nowadays, at least, you're all about those Native cuddies and graylings and all that other cool ship you guys got going on out there. But I also know that you've got a a a soft spot for for opening day stocky bashing. Because you're from out here. You can't lie to me. I know that's part of you. You are as an angler. You're right, you're right. So then I gotta ask you, man, when was the last time you actually did the whole opening day thing? Alright? Uh, confession time it wasn't. I don't think it was opening day. But okay, okay, so back in the right when everything was real weird, um, and they were doing all that kind of I don't know if they did this in like Jersey or whatever, but at least in Pennsylvania they did these like discreet stocking hits. Like p A wasn't putting out a schedule. They were just like, this season is opened, We're going to be stocking things quietly, so we don't have a ton of people converging on like this one body of water. And they were trying to stem the tide of Rona at the time. They didn't want you to get it on the Stoker stream. Yeah yeah, um. So I was holed up in that cabin in the Pocono and stuff talked about before and there was this one trout stream that I had done an opening day thing on wait wait wait wait wait back with like my dad and my brother and my uncle, my cousins. So anyway, uh on the opener or or or I guess just after it probably realistically it's probably a little bit after it. But I hit the stream. I looked down from the bridge and it is loaded, just totally totally loaded. And what do you think The first thing, uh that I noticed is a big old palomino, big old golden, A big old golden. Yeah, man, that's what they're good for. You see one, it's like, well, if he's there, there's eighty more right underneath them. Now, okay, So two things about me. One, I've never been the lucky little boy to catch a golden trout on opening day. Never have I been the bell of the ball. Another thing about me, despite being a thirty year old man, sometimes I act like a child. And for whatever reason, I saw that fish, and I was like your mine, because that's what you think when you see one. It doesn't matter. It's like you have to catch it. You have to catch it. It's so obnoxious anyway, So I went down there. I drifted a pheasant tail right in front of that fish. Bam, first cast you you would have thought I caught a wild steelhead. I was embarrassingly excited, particularly coupled with the fact that I had to stream all to myself. It was this weird thing where they had effectively recreated the experience that we all go after when we're like fishing stockers, that being a wild trout stream with plentiful fish except they had this one just ridiculous, uh like mutant trout. At the end of my line. Anyway, I was so unbelievably stoked. I did an evil laugh, and I think I sent it to you. But I even bought the fish home, like the greasy, dirty stocky basher I am. I had my then girlfriend take a picture. Um it's me in a in a sims onesie holding that fish in a kitchen, and it's horrible, but it's also one of my favorite pictures. I'm pretty sure I sent that to you in miles. I know, yeah, I I remember I used it without your permission, thanking you for helping with with our theme music a long time ago, and you were upset, you were mad anyway, I can I can bash shut up? I can you were mad. I know I wasn't. Look I can back up what you're saying, though, because not that long ago, I was on a float on a river loaded with wild brown trout, that is what I was there for, And we came across this giant, dumpy like twenty six inch palomino like holding there in this seam, and like I wasted forty minutes of a perfectly good wild brown trout float because I'm like, we're catching this thing, man, we're catching it. And it's funny you said it eight right away. There's a there's a golden secret for all you guys out there. I have found that you either get him on the first cast or he's done that. It's it's one and done, because I think they're just more wary. They know they can be seen. So I think they just get harassed into oblivion. Man. I remember when I first caught that trout. I sent a picture of my dad and I said, it has got to be tough being a golden trout. Okay, yeah, so so that's my embarrassing man. Child opening day story. Now you have young kids, and I'd imagine a way less like I don't know, um whereas I'm being childish, I imagine you have an Opening Day's story more appropriately childish, like childlike wonder Well. To be honest, I've I've I've yet to take my kids out on Opening I have. I I have not done an Opening Day God, since maybe I was I was in college. I kinda got over that, Like I didn't, But I don't take my kids on Opening Day because they're they're too little at this point to appreciate it, but also like why take them out in the middle of the ship show, right, So I usually wait a week or two before I take my kids trout fishing. Um. I'll try to tell this one quickly, but the dad's out there will understand this. Last last um last spring, I took my daughter out and we got into some trout. We had the stream all to ourselves, and she was she was doing great catching these rainbows, and I'm sliding each one on a stringer. Well, uh, at some point I like went to go catch one myself and left her just playing with the stringer, right, And I remember this very this very same thing happening to me when I was little. She she comes over and we're talking and not and I look turned around and I'm like, where's the stringer And she's like, oh, I thought I stuck it in the dirt deep enough. And I was like, well, like, first of all, like I care about these stockers, like I care about eating. Then I'm like, well, there goes all our trout. I don't know, And like it was in the middle of this deep hole, in this in this raging spring water, and I was I was so bummed because then she was so bummed because we were going to eat those. And then I noticed like the tip of the stringer literally clinging to the edge of a lady in like water over my head and like my little six year old daughter is like handing me sticks and I'm like trying not to go in above my waiters and ship and damn it, I got it. I saved the day. I saved the day. Yeah, they said. A little part of me was like if we don't get them, then I don't have to eat those. But we did and we cooked them and she enjoyed it, so it was good. Yeah. Well, I mean like that's it's kind of funny, like the arc that you go through with Opening Day and when when you're a kid, you just want to participate. Then when you get a little bit older and you kind of recognize what's going on, you kind of want to get like secluded, and you really just it's just your first cracking fish and you've been waiting for it. Then you get to the point where you're like, dude, I'm not messing with Opening Day. I just like don't want to do this at all. And then you get to the point where you're like I want to see that ship show. I want to see a little blood. I say, I'm not ready for the ship show, But my kids have made me fall in love with trout fisheries I gave up on years ago places I loved when I was little that I'm like, I'm over that joint. All of a sudden, you see them with new eyes, and it's been really fun. You know well, I'll tell you what. That's infinitely more charming than my story. Anyway. One of the cool things about fishing for stockers is that, like you have license to do all the things many of you don't admit you do when you're targeting wild trout, I bombarding the same hole for hours. Within line spinners, Joe and I have both talked about, like our favorite inline spinners on Ben You know yours was a MEPs right or Panther Martin Panther Martin. Mine was a Swiss wing. But today on our Maker segment, we're going to learn about a handcrafted inline or some handcrafted in lines. Uh part in the pun with a twisty we're doing our tool times salute. So joining us for Makers today kind of tied into our our little opening opening day theme. Um you know, as we mentioned opening day, trout wherever you fish for trout, inline spinners, right, everybody loves a good in line spinner. And it just so happened that we have a listener fan, Evan Moso, who now I have not Evan, welcome. First of all, it's great to have you here. Um, and I have not used your products yet, but I think if you look at loremaking in general these days, a lot of people are doing handboards, soft plastics and swim baits and things like that. Yet you are Spinex Designs. You are going all in on on custom in lines. That's one of the big things that you do. Um. So I'm just so everybody knows, man, you're from the Pacific Northwest. Correct, that's right. Yeah, small little town in Oregon. Okay. So like what's home order for you? Man? Like, what did you grow up doing out there? I imagine the salmon and steel game? Yeah, So like growing up, I didn't do a lot of salmon and steel head fishing because I just didn't have too much family that did that in my area. But I did a lot of trout fishing on my own. I could get out and do that, and I just got really hooked on trout fishing. That's like what I that's what's in my heart. I love to fish or c run rainbow trout, especially so because we get a big return of those, you know, not big big by any means these days, but we still get a good wave of those coming up when sometimes when the salmon come up and sometimes when the steelhead come up, and those fish they are very aggressive and they hit a spinner very hard. No, dude, that's fat. No, I don't know, Heyden, do you know anything about that? Like, I know, I've heard of c run cuddies out there right like in the sound, but the c runs so these are smaller c run rainbows. Yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, they may be sorry I misspoke. They are cutthroat trout my bed. Okay, there we are. Were I was messed up there a little bit. No, no, no, it's certainly fine, man, because I've actually always wanted to do that. I've seen a lot of videos of guys fly casting and stuff waiting in in the sound there. Um, so that's cool, man. So how long have you been making How long have you been in the custom tackle game? Well, I started out about two and a half years ago. I did it for a year for my own I just wanted to make some new spinners up because the spin is that I had before they wouldn't get out for a good cast and they wouldn't sink to the strike zone quickly enough for my liking. So I wanted to do a little bit of tinkering. And I've always liked to tinker on things, and I just fell in love with making some spinners especially I'm a spinner guy at heart, like I said, and I just love to get that straight connection with the fish because they just dump your raw tip over and it's just like an awesome fight. Yeah, yeah, I mean, well, along along those lines, I think you know, one of the things we've talked about elsewhere in this podcast is that you know a lot of guys associate inline spinners with sort of that small stream trout deal um. But you say you're a spinner guy, therefore you know as I know that you know, bigger inlines will catch bigger fish. I just think it's it's hard for some guys to adopt that necessarily is like a big fish lure. But you, I'm sure see that differently. Obviously you've leaned on them pretty hard, agreed. Yeah, So it's all about the fisherman that you make it for, because like everyone's different, Joe. And uh so if you're fishing for like salmon on the sy Uselaugh, because that's what I fish for a lot, or on the side slot, especially because that's in my home area. That's closest river for me. I like to fish for salmon, especially with like a half ounce to a three quarters ound spinner, because it's gonna get deeper and the strikes own quicker, and normally at that time of the year, the river will be up a little bit more, so you're gonna want to get where the fish are at, right, So you're gonna want a little bit bigger presentation. And sometimes the bigger presentation will scare away the smaller fish and you'll only be fishing for bigger fish. So that's a good plus side. So when when you make these like heavier spinners, are you like messing around with like different alloys? Like, correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, But like a lot of the traditional spinners are made of brass, Yeah, brass or like Panto Martins are lead bodies. Yeah, do you ever mess around with like tungsten or anything like that. Well, I'm just getting into this new workshop. I actually just expanded, and I actually rented a quite a bigger shop than what I had before, which is good. And I have a whole lead pouring station set up to where I could start pouring lead. But there is other metals like tungsten and bith smith and in a few other metals that I can start playing with with spinner bodies. So I'm curious. Uh, spinners tend to be regional, right, Like I grew up, everybody out here is a Swiss swing or a Panther Martin guy vibrats. I mean that's that's a West Coast deal, Like Vibracts started out there, right, Is that like the spinner you you leaned on as a kid. I'm just curious. Yeah, that's the one I used a lot, along with the rooster tail too, because the rooster tail seemed to have the weight to get on the cast and sink, but the Vibracts had a lot more action, and like the blade just turns a lot different. So I kind of tried to make a culmination of those two spinners together and try to have a good version of that. Well, It's funny you say that about the vibrats, because I always look at that, like I'll have a few of those for bigger water when I need to get down more. They're always the heavy spinner, Like that's never been my choice for like pocket water trout fishing, but I always assume that that came them that you know, Northwest and Alaska idea of having to cover big water for bigger fish. And I see a lot of those elements in what you're making, Like looking at your lures, I mean you make some pretty heavy duty stuff with some some pretty different variants. Like I see a lot of bodies with uh, like a hoochie, Like a hoochie squid over them. Um, you know, like what's sort of the fun and the experimentation, Like what are what are some of the things that you're trying to do different to create maybe presentations that you can't get out of a big box spinner. Well, there's a lot of differences that in my spinners compared to like uh, different spinner makers or just gear makers in general. I try to get a lot of feedback from anglers like you and Hayden, just to see what you guys like a little different on your spinners, and then I get a common agreement of that, and then I'll put that on a spinner design, and I'll put that to a few friends and they'll do some testing and from there will kind of modify it if it needs any I just really like to use spinners. That's what I do. Mainly. I do other things with fishing methods, but merely I like to give a different presentation with the hoochie because salmon they really react a lot better with something with an eyeball on it, like a little white with some black on there. That interesting. It gets their instincts kind of like, oh, what's this the predatory instincts, And if it's on their lateral line, it has a good chance of catching a fish for you. But some honest American R and D right there, man, It's interesting what you're saying because a lot of people I think when you're looking at smaller spinners, um, you know, I feel the same way about some streamers. It's like, Okay, I threw this gold panther Martin and the fish ate it. Would it have also eaten the silver one with the orange tail? Did it really matter? But then I look at a lot of your work, and there's so much detail with eyes and different tones and different um like prism tape and things like that. Uh, So clearly you've noticed that that that does make a difference. It's not just about vibration in the right place at the right time. All those little nuances do matter. Yeah. Correct. I was just talking with a friend of mine that he lives up in Alaska and he fishes for a lot of gray ling. I was just talking to him yesterday and he said, he, uh, throw everything in his tackle box at these fish and they wouldn't bite. But he had a some thread and a little fly tying hook and he kind of tied up a black nymph and he casted it out there and he was hooking the fish. But he was using all these other different spinners and jigs. So it's it's really what the fish are targeting at that moment. So let me ask you about another element of your design that I've noticed. Um, do you have a lot of you have a lot of spinners with single hooks, and you have a lot of spinners with trouble hooks. As far as that single hook design, is that just to be like complying with regulations out there, or like, do you see any advantage between like, you know, a single hook in relation to a trouble hook or vice versa. So with that definitely, So it's all about the fishermen in two points of that aspect. If they are fishing for food, they'll normally want a trouble hook because as it will get a good grasp on the fish, and a single hook they'll definitely let you. You could bounce your spinner a little bit more off the bottom without getting hung up because you only have one point in contact like a side wash hook. And uh, that's that's really good too, because the sidewah shook will get them right in the corner of the mouth. The trouble hook it could be a little more fatal. If you're fishing a wild only stream, you don't really want to do that. You're gonna be fishing barbedless single hooks. But trouble hooks they really go good for if you're trying to catch some fish to eat. But single hooks, I've I used them a lot just for regulation compliance because some areas in Michigan you can only have like uh, don't quote me exactly, but like an eighth inch or three quarters inch from the shaft of the hook over to the tip. So there's definitely a whole bunch of areas of that aspect. I need to make sure the customer has the right hook so they don't get in trouble. There's a there's something else to be said for that too, I mean compliance aside. If you sort of look at people have asked me before, like oh, you know, yeah, how come they don't use trouble hooks on trolling lures, Like wouldn't that wouldn't that make more sense? And if you look at similar things like the tuna popping game, most guys you'll see they take those big, heavy troubles off and put on two singles because there's some argument to the idea that one heavier gauge hook planted really well, uh you know, is also a stronger connection than one of three small trouble stuck somewhere in the fish. So I actually do know some guys that will even make the effort to change out their rooster tails and panthers small stuff for small streams. Um some of it for you know, conservation because they're releasing the fish. But also there there is a case for one hook planet well is stronger than you know, kind of a half as planted trouble. Oh. I've definitely heard that before because I've also heard that since you if you had a big trouble hook on the end of the lure and you're hooked up on a nice steel head and it's thrashing around, Actually the weight of the lure can push back and dislodge the trouble hook. That's why single hook is good because it will normally go through their guilt plate right on their mouth near their mouth right And it's funny man, Like you know, if you want to say, like treble hooks are like more like a lot of folks use trouble hooks on their spinners and you know, I mean crank bits and everything, because it's like, oh, you got a better chance of like a hook up. But there is just something that looks so much fishier about a spinner with a single hook on it. I don't know what it is. It just like looks like a fish catching tool. It's worth it's worth making that that that swap man, you'd be surprised at how well they work. So I know, I know, you know, I are you doing this full time? Having like, is this your full time gig or is this a side project for you? This is definitely taking up a majority of my life and I can't complain in that aspect, but I do some other things here and there. I didn't fully answer the question though. It's taking up the majority of your life. But is it the full time gig? Is that what you're driving for? Yeah, it's definitely my full time gig, and I just want to keep working towards that and grow the business. I kind of I kind of look at what you're doing, like, sort of I imagine you probably have a good local following now, Like there are guys in your area who are like I throw spin X and that's it's sort of how like you see that with shad dart makers and things in other places. Yeah, I definitely have my people and I appreciate them a lot. Sure, of course. And you make a lot of this bigger stuff. But do you also still make like the tiny stream stuff or you just mostly focused on the salmon and steel stuff for now? Oh, anything you want to catch a fish with that has a hook, I could definitely make you up something for that application. That is no problem. I make a lot of stuff to where. Like I said, I love trout fishing, so I'll do a couple one eighth pounds or one sixteenthound spinners, some really small presentations for some small stream fishing. I do anything you guys want, and uh do it a quality way. Well, it was it was great to have an inline maker on man, it was a nice change up right now. If somebody, uh, if somebody wanted to be one of those folks you're making things for in the right way, where would they find you? Well? On Facebook, spin x designs tackle it's pretty simple, Instagram, Spinex Designs it's without the tackle. And if you wanted to go to the website and kind of check out a few things I make spin X Designs dot net. That's my website and my phone numbers right there on the bottom footer. So if you want to reach out, feel free. And if you're east side, there's probably some things you can buy off there that will make you the East Coast ringer because nobody else is going to have those. They're just gonna be throwing the same Swiss wings and Panther Martin's. So I would you know, I feel like inline spinners in general get sort of roped into this category of being too simplistic and sort of like a small fish lure. Like I'm all about them on pocket water and small streams, but if I'm floating a big river, right, I feel like if I'm not doing something more active, like working a big jerk bait, I'm not targeting the big fish. And I know that's just not the case like inlines in general, and all fisheries are very powerful. It's just like a mental thing. Yeah, man, you know, inline spinners are like the first things that really introduced me to the artificial game. Like it was the first thing I remember throwing consistently that wasn't a worm. And it's also the first thing that really made me evaluate my gear um in that if you're using like too heavy of a rod, right, you can't feel you can't feel any of the flutter that blade. And if you're using to light of a rod, it's it's just like kind of like a difficult thing to fish with, you know. Right, So Joe, as a as a spinner junkie, yourself, what is your perfect rod for throwing spinners? And tell me because I'm sure third Team makes it. Ah, Yeah, that would be the omen Fishing Trout pan Fish series. I like the five foot six inch light, which is a little bit stiffer than the Ultra light. I like a short rod for throwing spinners, jigs and stuff. Longer rod, um, it's great for that. Another thing I'll say to you, like, I remember growing up, my dad would always insist on putting a spinner on with a snap swivel like line snap swivel, then spinner because he's like, I don't want to twist my line all up. And I always hated that. I'm like, you're adding too much hardware to this anyway, Yeah, yeah, it made it look like the spinner had braces. The other thing about that, man, is when you're casting out those spinners. I don't know if you ever had this. Maybe you're using more high end spinners than I was, but I always felt like I didn't get a ton of spin on the blade. And then what I realized is I was getting plenty of spin on the blade. It was just my rod was inappropriately heavy, and so I couldn't feel like that little flutter on on the on the way back. So again, man, that is why the right rod for your spinner is crucial. Kind of ties into what we talked about last week with with you know, putting verse driving you know, yeah, anyway, Omen five six. So getting back to opening day for a second, let me ask you this, Uh, is there anything you considered a good omen Uh? Did you have any like do you did you any like opening day sort of rituals when you were a kid? Um A little bit right, So, I know a lot of people talk about like, you know, getting getting bait and all their stuff the night before. We never did that the night before. But the trip to the tackle shop would usually be within a week of opening day, and you know, the tackle shop would be buzzing their other guys in there buying their salmon eggs, and that was always just cool. But as for opening day proper um, you know, that was typically I'd go out. It would be me, my dad and my grandfather and we would you know, get up early for the for the eight am start time over in Jersey and you'd be out there all morning and and most opening days, at some point we would break for lunch and we go back to my grandparents house. So like a weird thing that that sticks in my head is like you smell like worm dirt, and hopefully some trout, and then like it was always a bologny sandwich. Like we would sit at my grandparents table and you'd tell you my grandma what we caught, and you would eat a bologny sandwich, and my dad would fall asleep in a chair and like hopefully he would still be in the mood to go back out for the afternoon, because I was I would always want to go somewhere different in the afternoon, and depending on the weather and everything, sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn't. But I remember that very finely. Man. It's one of those things that's it's kind of inconsequential. It's just like lunch at your your grandma's. But um, that was our opening day, you know. Yeah, how about you, man, any any rituals tied to day of or or or time before opening day? Yeah. So when I was a kid, I used to spend the night before the opener drawing all of these you know, depth charts where I thought the fish were going to be in relation to the bottom, which is basically well it's it's what it's what I saw in like in fishermen. Right. Um, what I didn't realize at the time was that most of those illustrations were in relation to some sort of like technique like drop shotting on an underwater hump uh, whereas my maps were much less helpful, not having an accompanying article. They were always just pictures of a hole with a big fish in the d keep his part in small fish in the shallower parts, but might not always looked at them and pretended to consider them as if they were going to influence his strategy or something. So that's great, dude. I hope you saved some of them, and your dad saved some of them. I wish had been saved. Um. And hey man, dude, if that if that helped your confidence with that little bit of strategy, that's great. Speaking of strategy, how about this, I've been plotting my own strategy for defeating you in this week's competition that we call fish News. Fish News. That escalated quickly. Hey, I just wanted to give a quick shout out to the dozen or so listeners that came to my defense following last week's very bloody smooth Moves. I said that I believed mother rabbits ate their young sometimes, and the response that I got from from Hayden and Company, here was that I was being a weirdo, But damn it, I was right. Okay, I'm not morbid or crazy. Several people wrote in, man, that's a I am, but but I am right in this case. They're like, no, it's a real thing. Look, and it's called neo natal cannibalism um. And it can occur if a baby is sick or week, or if the mother is stressed by fear that a sick or week baby will heighten the likelihood of a predator homing in on the whole fam. Isn't that a nice story for the kids. It goes much deeper than that, but that is the gift. It's a real thing. I did not make that up. So thank you everyone. And in a less morbid shout out, I want to give a shout out to the twelve dozen or so cops who all like wrote in, like, you know, you have a lot more a lot more police listening than you than you might think, So I'm going to be careful of what I say. I am. I am fine with that. Say. I told you the police listened to the bens and did the fishing. That's great. We we love you guys. That's good. I'm really happy to hear. What what are those cards called p BA cards? I don't know if they work anymore. We should have one of these officers right in and be like, I would love to know do because when I was a kid, my dad always had PBA cards, which is the Policeman's Benevolent Association, and that was always like you just slipped it under your driver's license if you got pulled over for a ticket, and sometimes that got you off, and sometimes they just took the card and gave you the ticket anyway. Um, but yeah, I don't even know if that's the thing anymore. I'd love to know. What would anybody even honor that? Yeah? And and if it is a thing, you can write into a bent at the meat Eater dot com and I will give you my nailing address and you can send any ten of them. Yeah, there you go. That that should last you a week or two anyway. All right, So let's get on with it. We'll we'll hit conservation minutes here real quick. Here's what I've got. A conservation group in Canada is begging for a rule change regarding Atlantic salmon, saying that catch and release angling needs to be banned. Entirely in Newfoundland, particularly when the water is above eighteen degrees celsius, which is sixty four point four degrees fahrenheit. UH, citing the study conducted by an angling group that above those tempts, even with the use of rubber mesh nets and cotton release gloves and all those those things, um, once you get above those temperatures, even those things created sores and and detrimental injuries to the fish. Now, Atlantic salmon are already at risk and much of their historic range and non existent in other parts of their historic range. But a call for a ban on catch and release during the summer months is going to be pretty hard to get by all the lodges and guides and outfitters that still rely on them to make money. So interesting debate, there's some air of of stryper debate on the second. I gotta ask you the it says saying that catching release angling needs to be banned entirely, particularly with the water when the water is above eighteen degrees celsius. Are you saying that they want to ban catching release fishing for Atlantic salmon outright or only when it exceeds these temperatures? Well, I think this group wants them to be outright, but they're saying at minimum, once the water gets above that temperature, it should absolutely be be bad like that. I mean I feel like that. Yeah, and we and we have we have similar things. I mean to see that about trout right seventy degrees, Like if you're if you really want to conserve trout, you don't fight him in the summertime if the water is above seventy or whatever the number is. Same thing with muskie. Can we do it? Can we do a short story time? I got kind of a funny story about it. Go ahead. Well, Uh, when I was first like getting really seriously into fly fish, and one of my buddies on the West Branch invite me up to Uh you're when I say really seriously, I mean, like professionally seriously about the first time I'd ever been like included with the big dogs. And uh, we were staying on the east branch but fishing the West branch. But you could go out in the daytime and you know, do the uh do a little wade trip on the on the east there. So he was out with a boat full of clients and I'm just hanging around the camp and I'm like, oh shit, I'll go I'll go catch some fish. I didn't really understand why we weren't. Well, the east branch isn't a tailwater the same as the west branches. Nope. Uh, And I didn't realize it. But now again, we had been fishing there like the week before, so like these aren't I wasn't like fishing in like seventy eighty degree water or like something like that. I was fishing in like sixty seven sixty eight degree water. And uh, he comes down, sees me, goes, hey man, we can't be fishing back there right now. We uh you know, is it? Is it a legal thing? No, it's not. Yeah. Well I I was too inexperienced know that this might be the case in this particular body water. So anyway, he comes down and say, hey man, we can't be fishing out there. We can't be fishing out there. Really lays into me and like understandably. So I told him understood, We got out of the water, etcetera. And about like ten minutes later, he kind of looks at me out of the corner of his eye he goes, I bet you was real good, though, wasn't it. Yeah, well, dude, it's like summertime muskies. Man, Like, you can catch some muskies in the summer around here, but in certain places Dude, that what degrees in the summer that it's no buy now you know what I mean? Yep? What do you got for conservation? Minute? All? Al right here, let me pull that up. Okay, So speaking of muskies, Uh, this week big news in West Virginia. On March nineteen, angler Luke King smashed the West of Virginia state muskie record with a with a hell of a fish measuring fifty five inches long. Yeah it's big fish, giant fish. Yeah and uh and weighing fifty one pounds so huge, quite the muscle lunge. Yeah. Anyhow, an important thing to note in the story is that the fish was put back into the water and swam away healthy. Huge props to the angler and the West Virginia d n R. Anyway, I called West Virginia DNA ARE and spoke to Mark Scott, assistant chief of Fish Management, who had this to say about the the catch and the release. Um. He said, Ultimately it's up to the angler if they want to kill illegally caught fish to have it certified at a later date. But muskie anglers in particular are very conscious about releasing their catch, and this one was released unharmed. The angler kept it in a large net and waited for biologists, and with cold water like we have at this time of year, this was called march. Uh, that wasn't an issue, he continues to say. And this goes to, you know, speak to the above and beyond effort that they went through in order to, you know, make sure this fish was released as healthily as possible. You can't plan to catch a state record fish, but our guys do their best to verify things on site as quickly as possible. During the week we can always get someone out to the angler, But on the weekends, as is the case with this fish, Um, it's much harder to get biologists out there. I don't like to call our biologist on Saturday morning and say, hey, you gotta get out there and verify this fish. But with a record like this, they're normally pretty willing to go out. Um. And then he he let me know that their biologists had pit tagged the fish, so if it's called again, they'll be able to identify it as the same fish. So uh, a little bit of conservation through catch and release angling man and uh a little yeah good on Luke. I I know I read a little bit about it, and I know like he was hardcore about making sure that fish went back and they got the pit tag in. So um win win there. All right, onto regular news. Remember this is a competition, and we'll we're still gonna call it one, even though I actually do know which story Hayden has brought to the ring this week. You'll hear more about that later. Uh. Still at the end, our audio engineer, Phil not Hayden, Phil as in Phil Taylor, will declare a winner. And it's my So, yeah, I know it happens, um, and I think it's a really fun story. I'm kind of pumped on it. Uh. And this comes to us from mash dot com, and it's about how one little change up to a product then the grand scheme of things should have zero bearing on anything, has made a specific cult of anglers irate. And that product of all things is the McDonald's drinking Strong. So before we get down to the nitty gritty of the issue, let's talk for just a minute here about Spanish mackerel um if you're not familiar with them or their behavior. They are relatively small fish, but very fast pelagic fish that that show up in casting range of the beach and piers with regularity in much of the South right. Spanish mackerel um, unlike some of their cousins, are are not really oily. They have a nice, clean white meat that I can tell you is excellent on the grill or as sashimi. Um. And when the Spanish max are around, they're usually very thick and aggressive. Um. They mostly feed on small bait fish and um. Spanish mackerel have a mean set of choppers and that is key here. Oh my gosh. You know, I haven't read this story, but as soon as he told me what item it was, I thought it was going to be something of this continue right, So because of those teeth, anglers have to tailor their lures and presentation, because if you just huck out a small jig or you know, a little metal on your standard leader, you're gonna get cut off over and over again. Strong chance right now. Because Spanish max are good, table, fair and abundant, they've also been a favorite target of anglers like on a budget, shall we say, like you don't need fancy gear to catch them, and you can you can catch a ton. The limits are high, um, and because people don't want to use all kinds of expensive lures, there's been a lot of ingenuity involved in creating cheap but effective lures. For Spanish max um as an example, considering these fish will slash it pretty much anything that moves and looks kind of like a tiny bait fish. Many guys lean on a simple piece of rubber tubing. It's just a few inches long and that slid over the end of their leader, and that leader has a trouble hook crim to the end, and the piece of tubing acts like a bite guard. But it's also just this redder orange, your colorful tubing that darts and wiggles just enough um when you reel to get bit and you can get four or five Spanish macro to one lure before it's shredded. And if you lose that, no big deal. Well guess what else works? And some anglers believe even better than the tubing that McDonald's drinking are gonna lose their mind when the styrofoam cups get banned. Right now. Per the story, the practice of turning McDonald's straws into Spanish macro lures dates back to the early eighties, when McDonald's was the dominant fast food chain in the country. Um. To add to the frugality of it, all anglers could get at least three lures out of one straw. And I mean straws are essentially free, right, you can walk into McDonald's straw right. Um. The article says that these straw lures originated around Pensacola, Florida, and it's something about the straw made these homemade maclures gurgle and move differently than similar tubing lures. The story even says, and this is what I think is so cool that the straw lures allegedly out fished other lures five to one. Now so great, right, allow made out of a straw catches fish. What's the big deal? But this story and some of the anglers quoted in it swear that no straw compares to the classic McDonald's white straw with the red and yellow stripe that we all remember from our earlier days. Um, it had to be that particular straw or it didn't work, which is why many in the Spanish macro game were pretty piste when Mickey D's ousted the iconic straw in favor of yellow and brown ones. And of course these days everybody's doing paper straws because straws are no good. Um. And here's a quote from the story, Uh what his weather or not? McDonald sympathized with the fisherman's plate the chain, didn't change the straw color back and instead suggested the Big Mac as an alternative to the straw. Um. So, I mean, I guess what I'm saying is uh, you know, and I love this. If you're sitting on a pile of retro mcdonald'straws, you can totally hot them for good coin on the pencicle of Craigslist page. But it's the precision that resonates with me. It's like, it can't be an RB straw, can't be a Wendy straw, can't be a dairy queen straw. Like it has to be the McDonald's, which I would I would love to know more about that, Like why what is it the Spanish mackerel are seeing in that color combo? That was so good? Yeah? I don't know, man, I mean like, but that's like the classic thing about like I don't know kind of any like cult angler phenomenon, right, Like, the one thing that I think of immediately is like the wonder bread spoon, right like that that pattern, for like whatever reason, just the fish like universally. Um, I don't think that as much as we'd like to think that we we can plan out exactly what fish want to eat and come up with these like patterns that are just going to crush them. Um. Ultimately, the fish are fickle and don't really seem to have any logical sort of preferences. Man, it just happens. No, You're right, I guarantee if I made you that same Lauren took it up to a trout stream, I'd get a trout to eat that straw too. Um. And I've also you ever seen those things where those like Chinese or Japanese dudes take a drinking straw and like origami it and they end up with like the most realistic looking brine shrimp you've ever seen, and they used that to catch stuff off the rock. No, but that's amazing, it's pretty impressive. That's been floating around for a while. But I'm like, Damn, that looks like too much well, the well, the thing that it reminds me of the most, man is uh, you know people floss in salmon using styrofoam Uh, like pieces of a styrofoam coffee cup. You ever hear about that. Yeah, they'll be like, yeah, but I do. I remember that. I've alluded to him in the past. But the guy who taught me about fly fish and that bus driver that I had, man, I was like, what do you use for like your salmon flies? You know, because I was I was just fascinated upon hearing that you catch salmon on the east coast and I'm thinking like green butt, skunk, you know, like just like classic patterns like that. He's like, well, we don't use any of those. The best thing that we use styrofoam cup. It's like what yeah. But into the difference though, is flossing is flossed. Yeah. I mean you don't have to trick anything. I know that now. Yeah, I mean now, I'm like, yeah, Tony, I bet you. They just couldn't help but eat that styrofoam cup. Man, please enter your password. You have one unheard message. Hey hey midsunter from graphics. Um, I'm kind as hard as I can with this photo that you sent me to twicket for Instagram. Um, I can't make fish like any bigger. There's anohing all on a small fish, you know, just talking about how pretty of the colors are caption or something like that. But anyway, I just want to let him in. Uh take care like end of message, delete press seven, save deleted. Okay, So Joe, we both know what I picked. I know I do know what you picked because you saw it in the inbox and called Dibbs and DIBs means something to me, no matter how old you are. Dibbs as DIBs, you called Dibbs. You got it, Yea. Although I'm I'm a little upset, ok Yeah, I mean I learned at college that Dibbs was nothing but something. Uh your loser buddies did anyway. Uh, the really messed up part of this is that it was your buddy Jim Fee who covered it. Man. He couldn't. He could have let you know. Uh, he could have let you know before it came out, But old Jim Fee did your dirty man. Yeah, Jim's too busy catching monster large mouth on herring plugs right now to to let me know about what stories are coming out. I'll give him a pass. I'll see him. I'll see him in a few weeks. I'll give him studs. Very charitable you, Joe. Anyhow, thank you, Jim Joe. Do you want to do you want to tell our listeners the title of the news story? Or should I? No? Man, it's so good. I feel like I should least give you a chance to be part of it. You know, no, you own it now, but we we did. A lot of people forwarded this one along. So the story comes from a friend of Bent, Jimmy fee via on the water dot com. And this little chestnut is titled Possum eating striper poacher busted in New York, which is now forever my favorite headline. And dude, I don't know, like if I had to go to the pantheon of Bent news stories, it's this or the prostitutes on ice really see it? Because here's the thing. I mean, this is a this is a good Did we have to do this story? It's it's it's we We couldn't not hit the story here. But I will say this, like to most people, the idea of a poacher that's eating a possum, it's pretty weird, but this is meat eater, Like, don't we have a new eating possum series coming out or something like? Isn't this is just the kind of thing that that you do around here? Is it really that weird? Yeah, Spencer is actually gonna eat a possum stuffed in a in a snake in a in the South. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, okay, okay, so media to proclivities aside. Here's what happened. Over the course of two days. Using night vision goggles, some conservation officers monitored a group of people catching a bunch of stripers out of season on the Hudson River in New York. When you have to say, it's like ground zero for this year, Like there are more bust on the Hudson River, I swear than anywhere else. Right, Anyway, when the when the officers approached the poachers and maneuver I'd like to dub the poach approach the uh. The poachers were all like, we don't have any stripers, and the officers were like, we have night vision goggles, We've we've been watching you. You definitely have stripers. And boy did they have stripers. Fifty six stripers in a Dr Seuss esque approach to hiding stripers. They hid them in a bad tag and under rocks, in some roots and under boots. Um it listened where they the boots wasn't in there. That was just for the rhyme scheme. But it did list like they were hiding them in rootballs, or hiding them onto rocks, They were hiding in bags, were hiding them in all sorts of these spots. Anyhow, Stripers are not all that these officers found. Oh No, per the headline, in a turn of events that brings me the maximum amount of joy any game offense possibly could. Uh, they found that one of the poachers was cooking up a possum which she had also punched in the parking lot in New York. Uh, we know that's illegal. I'm just saying, like, I don't what are the possum rules? Certain I think they're out of season anyhow. And I have to say, like I wonder if it was like Francis Malmon who was the poacher apprehended here, because the possum appears to be beautifully cooked over what's known in culinary parlans as a live fire, that being a grill great over over coals like the thing is golden brown and like it genuinely looks tasty. If I didn't know it was a possum, much less a possum shot in New York on the Hudson, I would have eaten it. Um anyway, Uh, not a lot of meat, but you wouldn't. Now you wouldn't now anyway, not a lot of meat on the bone there, so to speak. But come on, you had to. Oh, we we absolutely had to. Um. Yeah, I mean, how do you how do you leave that one alone? Because it is a terrific headline, but um, I mean the stripers is bad enough. I don't know the pot just I would try possum if it was like a country possum. Somebody's like, I I shot this. It was a problem on my farm. I mean, it's what it's like, It's what separate it's super rat, you know what I mean, Like you're already worried about what the rats are into. What is that thing eating in that location? Uh? And I also they are just the creepiest animals dealt with some of my property, and they are just the creepiest app It's where you know, it's kind of what separates squab from like street pigeon, you know what I mean, sure, exactly, but it also makes me wonder. It's like, if if you all are that hungry you need to kill uh, fifty six stripers, you probably would have gotten the well, probably would have gotten away with more, just like round up the possums. Then, man, if that's what you want to eat, like you could get away with that easier. Most people, like yeah, would give less of a shit about that. I feel like, I mean, to be honest with you, man, I've never really thought about this, but if you have fifty six stripers on hand, why are you eating a possum? Why not just throw one of the stripers on the grill there. That's that sounds somebody somebody just forgot the tony satchery seasoning. That's why you know they only had you know, yeah, I mean, like I don't know, possum based itself. Yeah, yeah, Well the thing with the thing with like a possum, well, let's talk about bears real quick, man. When when you shoot a bear and you want to eat a bear, a lot of times how that bear will taste is very dependent on what they're eating. For instance, if you shoot a black bear in the fall, that has been eating all sorts of huckleberries, that is probably going to be a very tasty bear. If you shoot a spring bear in southeast Alaska that's been feeding on like rotting salmon carcasses, well, I guess not in spring, but okay, in autumn. If you shoot a a black bear in Alaska that's been like eating rotting salmon carcasses, that is not going to be a delicious bear. I would have to imagine that a possum, which presumably eats a bunch of trash, Yeah, feces of homeless people, things like that. Cheez Joe, what beat decent. I'm just saying it's an opportunistic feeder that is in a city environment. For all that is foul anyway, Okay, Uh, moving on, a mackerel eating straw are poacher's even possums? Uh, we're gonna hear from Phil and then we're gonna hear right out of it there, and we're gonna hear from Then we're gonna hear from Joe, who's going to tell us what the hell is on the end of his line. But I will say what it's gonna catch you is probably more delicious than possum and stripers, we're back to stock trout. The winner this week is Joe Surmelie. Joe, your story got me thinking about what we would all be attracted to if we were fish. I was thinking Hayden would be attracted to a dime bag in an off brand zip block. Joe, you would probably go for one of those bargain bin DVDs. It has like five full screen movies on one disc, but it would all be like eighties comedies that no one's thought of in about thirty eight years, and I would probably just go for a McDonald straw. Well, that's not loud enough. These days, there is no shortage of conventional lures that imitate terrestrial and aquatic insects. Now, I'm not talking about flies here, I'm talking about things meant to be cast on your trusty spinning rod. And for the most part, this is all thanks to major advances in the soft plastics realm. From fake maggots to rubber crickets to stretchy dragonflies, modern soft plastics have given us the ability to cast fish food imitations that we couldn't just ten or twenty years ago. Now it's not that fake bugs haven't existed for a long time, because they have. But if you compare say a rubber frog or even a worm from the seventies or eighties to those we have now, you can't deny that they just have more life. They're not stiff and rigid things molded around a hook. But while so many companies tried to push less than perfect rubber imitations for so many years, one company went all in on the buggy hardbeat. And I'm talking about rebel. We've discussed the rebel crickhopper in this segment before, and I've been fighting Instagram wars ever since because I said, I don't really like the rebel crickhopper. It's not that I've never caught fish on these tiny, popping and diving grasshopper cricket hybrid lures. It's just that it's never become a go to for me. I've never found a scenario where where that was the ringer above all else. But the crick hopper isn't the only for a rebel has ever taken into hard body bugs. And while I may not reach for that crickhopper very often, I will reach for their helgram might crank bait. Despite my best research efforts. I don't know exactly when the rebel helgram might hit shelves, but I know it's existed since at least the mid nineties because I had them as a kid. For those unfamiliar, the rebel helgra might is exactly what it sounds like, a tiny, hard plastic helgram might with little rubber legs and a tiny diving lip. They are available in one size and one size, on that being one and three quarter inches. They weigh a mere three thirty seconds of an ounce, which means they are meant to be fished on ultra light tackle, say two or four pound test. I bought my first rebel helgramite after an observation that is forever burned into my brain. I was twelve or thirteen and just had a successful day catching early may stock trout on my usual offerings of panther Martin's and meal worms. One of those trout was a nice seventeen inch rainbow, and when I gutted it in the river forehead and home, something looked odd about its stomach, so I slid it open and out popped a giant helgramite. Now, at the time I had no idea what the hell it was. I just knew it was weird and ugly and scared me a little. When I brought this up to the fellows at the local tackle joint, they of course knew right away, explaining that live ones aren't easy to get, but they are some of the most potent baits you can use in fresh water, especially for trout and smallmouths. Meantime, they said, maybe try this here, rebel helgra might. I did try it, and I didn't catch ship, and that's because I was casting and reeling it like a regular crankbait. But that's not how the rebel helgramite is designed to work. I actually learned this from something I read not long after in in Fisherman. These lures sink slowly, and the idea is to reel just fast enough to get the little might ticking and banging over the rocks on the bottom. Truthfully, the lord doesn't have a ton of action, but it doesn't need it. It just needs to look like a helgram might moving from one little hiding spot to another. Armed with this information, I lost about ten rebel helgram mites in the next two seasons, diligently banging them off the rocks and praying they didn't get stuck. I had about given up on the lore until I had a real eye opener. It was maybe two seasons after I caught that trout with the helgram might in its gut that I stuck an eighteen inch brown in a hole that did just been bombarded by other anglers. When I showed up at the river, they were four guys pumbling it. So I walked way downstream and on the way back they were gone. This was one of those deep, dark, mysterious bridge holes. So I figured I'd send something out that the pile of trout likely in it hadn't seen, and I braced myself for a snag like I often did with the Rebel helber mte. But on the second retrieve, that tiny mite came to a dead stop, and when I swung this time, it wasn't a rock. I've caught a bunch of trout on the Rebel Helgramtes since, but I've learned that for me, at least, it's a tool with a specific application as a replacement for spinners or small jerk baits. I don't really see the magic, but in those deep, slow holes it has pulled a rabbit out of the hat for me on numerous occasions. Is it really that stock trout key in on helgram mites with more ferocity? I don't know, Or is it just a very different presentation from percent of what these fish see. I'm not exactly sure, but to this day it's rare for me to leave a good hole without bouncing that lore through at least three or four times. Still hoping I don't lose it now. As for the rebel bumblebee crank bait, I still haven't figured that one out. It does even less for me than the crick hopper, but I'll stand by and let the bumblebee fanatics tear me up in the bent inbox. So there you go. You now have a new lure that doesn't fall in the traditional opening day categories to throw for those pellet heads. I highly recommend it. Well. The the the rebel helga might is definitely something I need to get in my arsenal as I as I broaden my conventional fishing horizons. But seeing that I'm both from p A and left to fly fish, we we we cannot have a more fitting question for the bent helpline UH this week to round out our opening day themed episode. What do you laughing at Martini? You're not an idiot, You're out of damlooning. Help all, you're a fisherman. What's your so today? On the bent Helpline Archery kid asks very succinctly, uh, top ten trout flies for Pennsylvania, And I put an asterix next to this, and I said, let's just have a conversation about our top ten trout flies in general, because you know, aside from like if you're fishing, like you know, if you try and bring your Hendrickson's out here, um like, Hendrickson's don't really exist, so like that's like kind of one of the few, um, I guess times where you can look at something and be like, maybe not maybe not applicable everywhere. But for the most part, I think flies are generally you know, if if a fly works here, it'll probably work over there. Everybody of water, every region has like little nuances, but in general, if we're talking about trout flies across the board, these ten that Joe and I are about to give you will work everywhere, and the work well, okay, well my five are mop fly, mop fly, mop fly, mop fly, at least for p a uh, you know you can if you want to scratch the wooly bugger and just get a salmon egg saying that works too. So I'm kidding, of course, Um, I do agree with what you said, barring barring a few caveats, like there there are some things that I think are critical out west, that salmon flies and ship Yeah. Well, now I was I was because I was gonna say, I was gonna say stimmies. I was gonna say stimulated Like that is to me, you don't fish out west without some stimulators. Whereas that idea of just throwing something big and honking out there in the east and you're gonna get a fish to come up and eat it. No, I'm saying out here in the east, right, No, no, No, What I'm what I'm saying is like you can go out west in the middle of the summer and regardless of of the hatches a lot of times, right, if you present a stimmy, a big and these are these are big dry flies that represent a million things, right. They can be a stone fly, a grasshopper. It's just like a general imitation. Um, good chance you get a cutty or something to come up and sip that whereas out here on the East Coast, I think, Um, it's not that it's not that easy to do that there there, they're there. You're you're more inclined to catch dry fly fish on a specific hatch than just kind of blinding a stimulator around. But beyond a few things like that, um Man, I firmly believe, I'm trying to think what my five dude, I believe, like, if you have an atoms in a million different sizes, you have just covered pretty much every hatch on the planet everywhere, right and then. And that's not entirely true, but it kind of is too, especially in low light in the evening. Okay, um, hair's here, nymph, uh hare's I like a hair's ere, Adams hair's ear, Prince nymph, wooly bugger and uh zonker Man, I mean you can catch if I had to chop one elk hair, cadis right. I think that's like if you've got Elk hairs and you've got Adams man, you are covered for a lot of stuff as long as you have been a bunch of different sizes. That's the thing with flies most of the time, if you're getting refused the size not the color exactly less. So with nymphs, I go, I go, size profile color. Those are like my order of like operations. If I'm trying to narrow something downright. Um So, my my top five are pheasant tail, pheasant tail, pheasant tail, pheasant tail fly. No, no, they're pheasant tail, Griffith's and that. Uh. I love a man. It's a dude. I mean, I just hate fishing him. I love him. I hate fishing him. Well, we'll get onto that, but compare it on a bunny leech and a rusty spinner. Those are my Those are my top five for trout. Yeah, no, for sure. I also think you know it's funny because we're joking about mop flies and ship but without knowing like his m O. Because if he's fishing like Pine Creek during high Stoker season, the list we gave you is pretty much worthless in which case like mop fly, San Juan salmon egg. But like that's a very valid list too. So without knowing, if we're talking about wildfish, we should have done Stoker native and then the stock how close. I'll tell you. Well, I'll tell you I have a story tied to that. Years ago. I covered Um I hosted uh something for Field and Stream that was on TV called the Total Outdoorsman Challenge and there was a fly fishing part and I was like a commentator and uh, I need delicious down in Dogwood Canyon, um in Missouri, and you have all these like you know, these these dudes that think they're all hardcore, and I'm like going to each from them. I'm like, what pattern are you throwing on this beat? And they're like, uh, dead egg. I'm like, what's a dead egg? And it was a salmon fly that was just light brown. But they couldn't they just could not bring themselves to say pellets. So it's like, well, you know, like when the eggs rot a little bit and get discolored in water. Egg. I'm like, get out of here with that ship a dead egg? Kidding me? A pellet fly? Fly man. I remember when I was like when I was a kid. Um. It was on a creek out by your neck of the woods man, and there was this older guy who was just watching me stroggle and watching me stroggle and watching me struggle, and he goes, you want to catch some fish? I'm like, uh huh, yeah, definitely do. He goes, Okay, here tie this on. And I'm tying on this fly, and he's kind of like moving over by like the bank, and he's like kind of like reaching into the stuff, and I'm kind of wondering what the hell he's doing, and uh, he goes you ready. I was like, well, yeah, and he had a handful of like gravel, like really tiny gravel, like throws it out there. All this time he goes cast cast trout came right up and he thought he was Yeah, I thought he was throwing a bunch of pellots in. Um. Anyway, here, let's let's let's talk just like seriously about like these flies for a secondly. Probably I just want to go list real quickly and actually helped the fellow. Uh, pheasant tails are great, man. Um. You know, I'm doing a in in the nearer. I don't know if it's going to be at the time that this comes out or before or after it, but I'm doing a end of the line on on pheasant tail nymps because they are my absolute favorites. Very rarely will you see me nim fishing and that not be the first thing that I tie on. I just think it's like one of the best imitations that there ever was. I like a variety with like a CDC hackle. It's just a great buggy, all purpose nymph and it just works very well. Uh, Griffith snap. That's because I don't like tying midges. And if you don't know, Griffith snap is just a it's supposed to imitate, you know, a a midge like cluster. Yeah, it's a cluster. Yeah. And while all it is, it's really easy to tie, and you can and you can time on all sorts of like size I I typically have them in my box from about sixteen or and eighteen all the way down to like I've tied twenty six is before they're getting like negative note it doesn't actually exist. It's like a negative number, it's there. Yeah, And all it is is just peacock hurl wrapped around a hook and then you hackle the entire length of the hook with a a a grizzle hackle. Um. And that's why I do pretty much all my midge fishing with because it works well. I can tie a million of them real quick. And you know, when you're fish like a fly that small, you're liable to break off them more often, So like it saves me from just like being forever frustrated device and like lamenting that I just lost atoms on my backcast. I'll throw one more extra player out there. I'm gonna throw a nomination down for the freaking zug bug. Why does nobody talk about the zug bug? You know what? Zug bug is the spinner bait of the damn fly world. And I catch the ship out of trout, or used to, at least on zug bugs. I think it's because it's just like to me, it catches too many trout. That's the problem. It's like reeks of like the Old Guard, right, like reeks of like a fly made on a chalk stream in like you know, I'm sure that that is not where that comes from. Well, I was gonna say, man, you gotta watch what you say there, because I've I've edited some pieces and interviewed some folks who swear up and down that if you, if, if, if people today would just get their head around old Guard wet fly fishing, not nimp d wet fly fishing, you will smoke everybody on the river every single time. Hatch no hatch like you. But yeah, that's one of the first days. One of the first days that I ever did truly great fly fishing was doing just that, was swinging a partridge soft tackle. Yep, and nobody doesn't. And I like, I've heard, I've heard the hype for years. Have I Have I gotten myself a set of partridge soft tackles? I have not, But you know, there's something to be said about old school. Yeah, moving on like a comparadn man, I think that works really well. I like how it sits so low in the water, it has like the right profile. They're easy to tie. You can bang out a bunch of them real, real quick. And uh, I've always had good luck on those, particularly when I've been like dealing with kind of selective fish. For whatever reason, Are you going to break down every single one of your picks like this, Because I was just gonna tell dude, everything I said is in the Walmart starter kit. Just go and purchase that. They're all in there, Adams, the Elk Care, the Prince Nim Bunny leech is a good easy streamer and rusty spinners. If you want to get frustrated about eight thirty at night, Yeah, and then tie on a mouse and catch a real one. Boom. Anyway, Um, dude, I know that's kind of all over the place, but but you actually think you're asking like a very simple question, and it's it's not really that easy to to to sum up, I'm joking about Walmart, but not too like truly. A lot of the things I brought up are in your classic like trout starter flies, and they're there for a reason. That's the stuff when I first started fly fishing, that's what I bought, the Wooly Bugger pack, and I caught plenty of fish on it. So, uh, don't overthink it too much. And I would say, don't get lost in you know, there's all Rainbow Warrior and the guns up about a gun slinger and all that go down. That go down, man, Yeah, exactly. Anyway, I hope that helped you a little bit. If we if we miss something for PA or elsewhere, if you guys are like, how could you not mention the insert fly name here? Let us know. And if you've got more questions that we can answer, please keep sending those two bent at the meat eater dot com. So that's it for this week. If you live squarely in the land of wild trout, sorry you had to suffer through that. But we're trying to teach you about a different culture here. Okay, man Stocker's count Yeah, and archery kid if reference to your birthday, you're almost thirty. Your your archery adult now. Anyway, keep using the Degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags. We really do love seeing what you guys are up to. Maybe an opening day stocky s fest, Yeah, that would be good. And hey, if you're a p A resident going to hit the opener tomorrow, Remember wearing studded boots makes it easier to kick children out of your favorite spot. It Flies are the easiest to tie, and to quote John Gearak, there are only two types of people on the river. Folks are fishing with any assholes