00:00:06 Speaker 1: Really, Richard, I think that the issue here, which we can talk more about, Um, you're not casting to where they are. Honestly, when it comes to baits, you want to be pigeonholed as a Japanese maker because they're on held on high regarden. My bad on that for totally being the guy who told you Bruce Willis is dead the whole time. In the sixth sense, if you have to take a plant with you to go out into nature, you don't belong there. Man. There's a nice thing about nature. Man, there are lots of plants already out there. Good morning to generate anglers. And welcome to Ben the fishing podcast that sees one tiny tool that pop through the mulch and just assumes there's ship blowing up on top water somewhere all of a sudden. I'm Joe Surmeli, and I'm the equally optimistic Hayden Samac. Yeah. So yeah, why did I do that? Because? Man, is it's starting to feel a lot like spring where I am. I can't say spring has sprung, but I can say it is springing, and a long term forecast looks good. That we talked about some croppy action last week they're they're starting to go trout openers coming up for the Stocker Mobile people out there. I love you guys, um, But yeah, dude, on the terrestrial side, we've got some buds on the trees starting to see some some some signs of things waking up, shall we say? But that is not the case for you yet, is it, my friend? No, No, Montana, We're still like a little ways away from signs of spring, um, and we will be for a while. Man, That's just how it is. But as long as I'm living vicariously through you, what do you have on your early spring agenda? Now before we get there real quick, because I know that you are a little bit of a of a mushroom guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a little bit of a mushroom guy. Um. Yes, that's so, that is on my agenda. But that's gonna be. That's gonna be April, mid April around here. Are you going for Morrel's. Yes, that is the thing I will be doing very shortly, thanks to uh some mental ring from a local buddy who who opened my eyes to it. I said, these do not exist here, and he said, well come look at this, and it's like once somebody lets you in, you can you can figure it out. So yeah, that's coming up. Um schad of course, which I brought up last week. There's there's the shad. Fishing is one thing, but also just when you live on a on a river like I do, where there's a spring runs of things and nadrumus fish. Uh, it's not just those andronyms andronymous strain um. Yeah, you know, it's just like this awakening. It's sort of like once those fish, those shad and and the herrings start running the river, it's just like the kick off to everything. I know once they're there that I can now get both into bite and now I know once they're there, there's gonna be the migratory stripers coming up, and I know the catfish are gonna be easier to catch it and more woken up. So it's just like this whole just bristling of life. I love a river in spring. I love a river in spring, I really do. Yeah. Well, you know, I've officially booked my tickets back and I am going to be around from about like the twenty three of April and until the I think like the fifth or the sixth of may, so we'll have to link up out there now. I'm again I'm particularly jealous of your early jump on spring and one of the things that I'm particularly jealous of is those deep shad induced bends you'll be putting in your rods, and those rods will be made by our sponsors thirteen fishing, Dude, I'm trying to pick out a couple of setups out here for for ice off, and I'm like struggling, man, I like, so I want something for Wally and maybe something I control around for like coconese. Now, you are a much more seasoned conventional angler than I am, and I know you have some thoughts on this. Yeah. Well, so to be clear, right, thirteen doesn't really doesn't really make a a a dedicated trolling rod. And but I will say this, I have a lot I spent a lot of time with the Fate steel Head rods right for four Chat as a matter of fact, and while they're certainly not advertised as trolling rods, they have a very similar length and taper and action um to to like Walleye trolling rods. Okay, well, I mean, because what what are you? What are you trolling? You have do you have a boat to do this out of? I assume you're not gonna troll on land. I well, I got my eye on one of those square tail old towns. Okay, it's like a little four horse on there and like you know, putter around some of the reservoirs. That gotcha. Gotcha? So I mean, do you intend to use planer boards like you're going all in the whole deal? Well, I certainly not down riggers. Well yeah, it'd be a little cat lamp us. Yeah, you know planer boards. Sure, yeah, So maybe like the eight foot six inch steel head rods another thing too, Uh not that I do a lot with planer boards, but you can get very small ones. Guys actually use them for for crappy fishing more than wall eyes. So like with one of those really light lyndy um planer boards with those rods, I actually think that would be a really good trolling setup. I mean, if you're into trolling, which I'm not, but you know, do your thing, you do you. I I think it'd be really cool man, And like you know, I don't know, it's a it's a fun way to uh to spend a little like uh, like you know, you're camping, you want to go fishing. You don't want to like monitor everyone messed around with uh with like you know, casting rods. You don't want to do that whole song dance speaking of though, Like what about a casting setup? I mean, dude, I use like the Omen black seven ft one medium or medium light for I mean for pretty much everything. Right, get get those and you're set. Um as far as reels, I don't know. I assume you're you're you're talking spinning rails. Are you are you going to bait caster round? Who do you think? I am? Man? You know you know I still get using a bait caster. Dude. I got a bird's nest when I was about twelve years old, and my dad's like fancy new setup, and I'm like still scarred by the still still still traumatic. Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, yeah I should have known that. Um, well, spinners reazy, right, Kalen C like size three oh would be great. Um I don't know, as long as you get the right size, it's it's kind of hard to go wrong with with any of them. But um, I've been using Kalon's for a ton of stuff this this past season. Lake Trout all the way down to the little ones for trout and panfish. M hm alright, well thirteen, Uh, this is your formal notice. There's an email inbound anyway. Hey, you and I were talking about doing a Bent podcast opening Day spectacular in a couple of weeks. But we all know that fish wait for no man and opening days is a Saturday to a lot of us. So let's talk about early spring fishing. I'm talking like ice off ultra early first trip type ship. Yeah, and I have I have just the guy for that, um with with the bay it's for that. Uh. This week on on our Makers segment, we're gonna be joined by Brent Hashimoto of Hashimoto Concept and he's gonna talk about baits and bass. But particularly what we're gonna touch on a little bit is how these larger swim baits, right, and there's a whole scene around swim baits, um why they come into play in the early season no matter where you live. Today, we're doing our tool Time salute with a real classic handmade Well that's a good looking rome, yeah, well this is handmade quality ship we're talking here joining us today for Makers. I'm very excited about this. The second guest on the Makers segment, Mr Brent Hashimoto of Hashimoto Concepts. What's going on man? How much guys appreciate you guys having me? It's an honor. How's how's everything north of the border there? So you're up in Ontario? Correct? Yeah? Yeah? And when Uh, Now, if you've been with Ben for a while, you you you probably recognize some of Brent's work. And it's funny because when I when I reached out to you, Brent, you're a You're a humble guy, and you're like, you know, there are much better swim bait makers, that's what you do that than me, which I understand. There's so many guys doing this stuff out there. There's so many people we could cover, but we have some history. Man. You you've made a killer bait for a Bent contest a long time ago. And I've also gotten a chance to fish some of your stuff. So um, while, while I'm sure we'll we'll do some other swim bait guys down the road. Uh. It was important to me for you to be first, man, because I I love what you make. I very much appreciate that what I mean, and you guys have always been super supportive of me from the beginning, and like I said, coming from a guy that you guys appreciate just the garage builders, the basement builders being that to the core, like just literally having a basement that I am able to produce this in. You guys have always been super supportive. Yeah, man, I mean that's that's very much what we're about. And um, yeah, we we we like folks that just make cool stuff. That's like the that's like the whole deal do There's so many big box brands, so many folks that are you know, there are just so many folks that get lost in that wash and don't get the exposure that they deserve. And ultimately it not only benefits you, but it benefits the people using your gear because they end up getting turned onto all these either you know, cool pieces of equipment they didn't think of, or better quality products than they previously had access to. Man, it's just a win win for everybody for sure. Yeah. But I also think that, um, you know, it's a very pertinent time of year to talk about the kind of baits that you make now, so everybody knows you make both hard baits and hand poard soft plastics, right, Um, you know, and there's a misconception I think with with swim baits that these are just big fish lures, and a lot of guys like Oliver and I have proven like that's not necessarily the case, like not just fishing them for ten pound bass, you know, as as like a need a fight to the world of like swim baits. I'll tell you what. Growing up and like you know, watching a bunch of for instance, muskie fishing videos, right that is totally the impression that I'm under. So I I think that I'm going to be representative of a lot of listeners here. Well, I think loosely speaking and brand if I'm speaking out of turn, let me know, like, um, you know, in the southern US right now, you're probably already starting to come into the spawn, and these big baits certainly have application there with fish that are you know, defending. And then in the north, further north, you're getting to that ice out in the in the farther north, you know, much further up, and sort of in the mid range of the country where I am now, it's just starting to be that pre spawn time. So in all those applications, it's a great time of year when when fish are looking for a fairly big meal, so it's a great time to fish these kind of lawyers. Now, I'm not a large mouth guy, so I have not thrown the lawyer you've given me at any large mouth. But I've already caught stripers on it. I posted those pictures a while back river stripers. But um, you know, being from Canada, give us a little bit of the backstory, dude, How did how did you get into bait making? What? What triggered all this bait? Well, I mean it actually had nothing to do with baits in general. I went through a knife making phase and I made knives like the forged and fire style. I had a little forged I made knives and I love doing it, but I have a small family and time restraints. Srimuted me for getting things hot, banging out metal. It's so, but I found myself really focusing on the handles. I did custom knives for people. I would shake their hands, I would feel their hand, and then I would carve a handle that fit perfectly. It was about the details. Hold on a second, wait, would you only shake their hands once and know the dimensions? How does that work? Will you get It's not like the contour of their hand. It's the feel of their hand, the size of their hand, the bulk of their hand. Some guys have small hands. They want to you know that a more narrow handle will fit in that hand, got it? The big bear paw guys, you can put a little bit more girth on the wood when it when it comes to make an handle. So but I found myself making knives just to make the handles. A fisher my whole life. I have an art background. I love carving. I've always loved woodwork. And it was actually talking to my buddy Carson about Bates and it just kind of lined up that I was like, oh, there's a world where you can do that. Let's let's just try to take a piece of wood and see what you can do with it. And when I say it evolved overnight, I mean it's a rabbit hole that I they're still chasing. It's it's something else. But that's kind of the origin in it. It came from handles into making a custom bait. Uh, and then just kind of living my life. Sure now and now so everybody knows you this is still you are not doing this full time, right, this is still a side project for you. Um, but I've always been impressed by the amount of I mean, you are always posting new stuff, which tells me side projects. You're not man like. This is not like, well, I'll make one bait this month. You are. You are getting after it. And like I said, you do the hand poured swim baits thing. And we can touch on that a little bit. But there's sort of two worlds like that's it's that's a cold in and of itself. And there are guys who believe in advantages to a handpoard bait versus a injection molded bait. But you know I'm I'm most interested in in the hard baits. So now, um, these days is everything you're making in that genre? Would are you playing with composites and things now too? I I mainly deal in order to keep up to the the orders that I do. Get Uh, you kind of have to. I shouldn't say have to, but for me, it's more feasible to work with resin. So I carr. I hand carved all my masters. I do all of the swim test everything on wood, get it to where I want it, and then I pour a master mike my own olds, and then with resin, I then develop debait from there. So then I go wreath, do all the weighting of it, make sure it works specific because the thing I've learned about swim baits is that the guys that fish swim baits are very particular on how the swim works, and I mean to the point where I never ever would have realized the details. And that's one of the cool things about this world is that the guys that are usually buying these baits, they're very custom in their own right. So they want to be able to have it very very slow suspend or floats so that they can put the exact amount of lead tape on the base, so that they can have it sync at their own rate like it's They're all very customizable. So I need to spend a lot of time in the development phase to have a bait that can that can be manipulated to to swim in the way that the user wants it. And that's the biggest part of my job. I mean, my hobby, I should say, UH is developing a bait that everybody can use but that won't fail on adding a little bit more belly weight or or changing the build of it, like, and that's also the enjoyable part of making. So I think it's it's like a fair question to ask because I really want your opinion. I mean it's no secret that, um, there are a lot of people to do this these days, like custom baits are are a big thing, right, So you know, going into this, what do you what do you think sets sets you apart? Like I have some ideas, but I want to know what you think, Like what's the mindset? It's like it's a ton of guys that do this. So what am I doing different? What am I doing better? How do I make myself stand out here? So that's I mean, that's a question I kind of ask myself every day I go into the basement and I start making baits or I start pouring because the level of capability out there for people like it still blows my mind. And then you have companies that specifically revolve around just making perfect molds for you. You can nap, condraw something, send it to a company and they'll send you back. It's not cheap, but they'll send you back something that makes you look like you're like a steady running production. Right, So doing it all myself. Um I almost feel like that's part of what keeps being the market and that's valid. I mean, there is there is something to a handmade lure verse one that's that's been mass produced, even on a small scale. I I I get that. You know. One thing that I'm like particularly curious about is I've been if you see me looking down my phone, I'm like looking at your Instagram, and your baits have like obvious, obvious, like Japanese artistic influence in them. I'd be interested to talk about how you like incorporate that into your into your bait. I mean, like to me, like that's like hugely unique and like really interesting. And you get kind of in this intersection between like art right and function, and you know, I I wonder how you navigate that. I know we talked to uh, we talked to Ryan Ebert right, and he makes show decoys and he makes working decoys. Like where do you find yourself in the intersection of those two things? And I like, and when I listen to that episode and I that specific part I found very very um like, it resonated with me because he said, like he doesn't make a he doesn't make a show piece he makes a piece that works and if you hang it on the wall, that's totally fine. Um. And I that resonated with me because I feel the same way because you might hang it on the wall, but your kid in ten years from now might take it off the wall and be like, check out this sweet lure and throw it and if it doesn't work. I literally put my name on every single bait to make, So I don't want ten years from now to be like, what was this joke? Like what was this fat that was happening? Do you know what I mean? Like not honestly when it comes to bits, you want to be pigeonholed as a Japanese maker because they're held on high regard. But it's it's uh, it's it's more. I don't want to be fake to that. I don't want to use that as as the opposite as like waving my flag like I'm a Japanese bait maker when I'm from Canada, parents are from Canada. But it is a part of my heritage and I do and I do love things. I do love things Japanese and to be to be a part of that is is important to me and I don't want that to be just kind of pushed by the wayside, because I am proud of it and to have it as part as my emblem and everything like that, that's really important to me. And like I said, it doesn't hurt that Japanese baits are pretty high high regarding you want you want, you want to be true to it, but you don't want to be viewed as like a gimmick. It's an exact, but it's not the entirety of it, that's exactly, and that's that's absolutely not how your stuff is viewed. I know that. But at the same time, and anytime I get my my hands on a bait like yours and from other builders. And we talked a little bit on our last makers segment about how you see this in striper plugs where they're this commodity traded like like like bitcoin, like they're ever gonna hit water. It's just like who has what? And I disagree with that. Yet when I get a lure from you, like knowing the love that went into that um the day I sent you the pictures of that thing, that after if you stripers hammered it, you know you're sitting there going God, do I throw this because if I lose it, I'm gonna be so upset. But at the same time, I'm like, I know you'd be more stoked about getting a picture of your lure in efficient mouth than sitting on my shelf. So I'm one of these today. So I'm curious though, like what was the first sort of milestone for you in terms of a picture back or maybe it was with you and your friends, you know, even in testing, Like what was the first fish that was like ship? Yeah, I got it, Like, fish will eat this. This is designed how I want as soon as in anybody out here listening. That doesn't make If you just take a piece of wood, shave it down into a shape, you put a joint and it waited appropriately and pull it through the water and it makes movement, it's gonna make it. Yeah, it's gonna make Yeah, it's gonna give you the butterflies. Um, the more work you put into that, the more it works, the more fails you have. There's tons of fails like I have just I have boxes full of failed lures that don't work. Um, when you get them to work, it's it's it's a different feeling. And when I say that because of this, my fishing itself has been reduced because those times I have orders, I don't like making people wait. Um, so that's I'm glad you brought that up. Not to interrupt, but like that's what people are like, Oh I want to be a guide. Oh I want to own a bait and tackle shop. Oh I want to fly shop. Oh I want to make lawyers. And it's like cool, So you don't really want to fish much anymore. That's that's a lot of things in this industry. So that's exactly right. But pictures like yours, I don't have stripers. When I get a picture like that, when I say, I get like overwhelmed with emotion. I got pictures from a guy in Australia with flathead, like giant flathead that's the same bait actually a cadachy fish that I'm not just going outside and gonna catch myself. Like the feeling it's it's overwhelming. I get the I get the love of seeing people use my baits like and catching stuff. I imagine you've sent some baits pretty far and wide by this point. For the large amounth freaks out there, what's what's the biggest one, you know, of on one of your baits. Nine pounds is the biggest that I've seen. But I don't get weights a lot. I just get pictures sent to my in box with it. I don't want to get many details. The one guy said it was his PB at nine pounds, and that is I don't care if your pbs four pounds, like if your best is for if it's on my bait, I know that my bait is what you're gonna use for the rest of your life, Like destrement are just like that. We know that you can have that old crank bait or top water that you've used since you were twelve and it just works. So that's what you buy and you might skunk on it. But as long as you get those hits on it, if I can be that bait, that's that's a huge honor to me to have. But because it's not even about PB either, I've had like big rock bass smash up bits, you know what I mean. It just depends on the fish that's in the area that you're that you're working, right, Yeah, so there were you You once painted a bait by a bent fan request with me and Miles Nulty on it. Let's forget that one for a second. Beyond that, what's the weirdest thing or pattern you've ever put on a bait for somebody. I mean that Barnon was, but I'd like to hear about another one. But yes, but um, I don't get too many, to be honest, I don't get too many odd requests. I get a lot of like real fish. I've had any any of the weird ones. It's kind of me stepping out of my box too, try to incorporate like more traditional art into into a bait. But outside of that portrait, I don't really have odd requests. There's odd color schemes and stuff like that, but it's it's not odd in the world of fishing, right, Like Brion pinks with with like a subtle green belly, Like they sound weird together, but then you put it on a bait and you're like, get fishes. Yeah, it also works on watermelon. So so knowing this isn't full time, man, I mean, you know what what what is? What is your hope for the future? Where do you see this going? Is this kind of stable and you're enjoying what you're doing and sort of found homeostasis in balancing bait making with the rest of your life, or you know, given the opportunity, if you could, if you could go all the way and make this full time, is that what you really love to do? I would like that is super important to me. I would right now. I'm at a spot right now though, that the amount that I can produce is getting close to the maximum level before something has to give. So and I also don't there's a lot of places that you have to wait six months for your bait or five. You know, there's this huge and I don't believe in that, especially because people find you they want their bait right now. So even asking four weeks is a lot. And that's generally what my weight is right out between four and five weeks UM. So right now I found a good spot that I'm I can still love my family, I can still do my job and not uh have it conflict at all. But and then I can still take care of all my orders. But you're what you're asking, I'm getting close to that point where a decision has got to be made one way or another. But right now I'm in a totally happy place and I can keep up with what I'm doing, like I'm in a good spot and the bits are very, very obviously in demand. I'll point out if you if you heard me being kind of quiet in this segment, I was just trying to buy one UM and they are they're currently unavailable. I did. I did buy a sweatshirt though, and I'm looking forward to UH to that coming in. You should have asked me from my code. I have a private code for hash if if folks were looking to UH to buy some of your baits, where would they how how can they find you? Man? So up until this point this year, I kind of made a little bit of a turn. I was custom prior to two thousand and two, and that was pushing it back. So this year I'm trying to gear down and start to do more of a bait drop. It gets more baits in people's hands. It's just a little less like custom UH. And then I'm leaving open maybe per each drop five or ten custom baits. It might be a little bit more, but that's at the cost of getting the exact pain job you want UM. But that that will be drops on my website in the future. I want everybody to say that I have one of these lures, especially in the custom swim bay world. You just going to start googling them. And some people are like, oh, that's a that's a mortgage payment for that that bait right, like it's it starts to get it starts to get a little high. And just the price of an independent builder like myself. We're not buying bulk like the big guys are right. We have to buy within our means, which obviously drives up the price of the cost the product. Well, hopefully this, uh, this segment will get a few more in a in a few more bent listen your hands. Maybe you've gotten some reach out from our crew already, but um dude, I'm a few weeks away from being able to throw that that baity yours on the river here as soon as the temps come up a little bit. And uh, one of these days, did if you ever downstate side, we gotta get together and and and throw some that would be awesome. I would love that so much and I just want to throw at that. If anybody's in Ontario, I don't know when this is coming out, but March twenty, that's this Sunday. There's a fishing show in Ontario and Peterborough it's my first booth I'm gonna have. You'll be able to pick up those baits in person. Uh March twenty and then the Musky World up here. It's it's a whole different thing. And there's a Musky Odyssey on April two in Hamilton's and I'm going to try to get a few baits into that. Hopefully the Musky guys don't eat much, but I should have some baits available at those two spots in person. If you are in Ontario, Canada during those two days, you will get both those plugs in in plenty of time for people to join you at those events. Man Um. Hopefully I'll be sending you a few more pictures this season, but we appreciate you coming on, Brent. Well, we'll be in touch with that. We'll be in touch, all right, brother, Thank you guys. You know, as as I mentioned, I am indeed a swim bait neophyte. Um never done a ton of fishing with him, but I always had it into my head that they were for a big southern bass. But now I have a I have a bunch of ideas and some yeah, I guess, I guess I'm insight into that culture, So I think this might end up being the summer of conventional fishing. Well, there you go, man, I mean I would put as as Brent kind of mentioned, I'd put your order in suing because it's gonna take them a little while. Um. But yeah, you know, it's weird swim baits. People have that idea of this is a big bait for a big fish. That's not totally the case. They're also really popular in the tournament circuit, which is funky because they do take some dedication. But if you're good at using them, like our and Oliver and I, and you can commit to them. Um, you know they can. They can. They can pay off much better than than finesse baits at certain times. Um. Anyway, speaking of tournaments, it's time for our weekly tournament that we call fish News. Fish News. That escalated quickly, all right, Hey, quick apology uh to the guy who wrote in give me give me a lip, Give me a lip boy for for spoiling the plot line of the Old Man in the Sea last week. I was a bit shocked, right, he was, like, I've been thinking about reading that for so long, and now I don't have to. Uh, whoops. I guess, but like, dude, it'll it'll take you two hours to read. It's a very short book. Um, it's a very small commitment. I guess. I assume pretty much everyone was forced to read that in school anyway, or or if not, you've seen one of the movies. My bad on that for totally being the guy who told you Bruce Willis is dead the whole time in the sixth sense, So make sure you don't ruin like Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet or you know. Yeah, we've also been getting some flak about like reading lately. It's like I feel like it's like you should have put down that to that TV and read. It's like, dude, like we don't have time to like devour books like Miles was the book guy. You know, it's not a lack of want, it's a lack of time. I have two kids. I can't read. The other thing is it's like I felt like we gave like a very thoughtful critique into a like literature based news story and like offered up genuine academic points. Yeah, people are like, why do you hate reading so much? Reading? God, anyway, let's get off of that onto news, Uh, starting with conservation minutes. Here's what I have, which only loosely qualifies uh. An initiative to preserve tequila fish that began is finally resulted in its reintroduction into Mexican rivers. The tequila fish, formerly extinct in the wild, is the first Mexican species to come back from extinction, which is notable. Conservationists, however, acknowledged that saving a drab, green, seven centimeter long fish that most people have never heard of has been a long road and a lot of work. Still, they hope it may serve as a rallying cry to help safeguard the country's rivers. So if you're in Old Mexico doing a little micro fishing and happen to catch it to kuela fish, what should you do? So that's what I got, Hayden, What do you got man? My conservation minute is a biologists are looking to save the tequila worm, previously pickled in the bottom of your tequila shop. So for my conservation minutes, UH, let's hit another species. Folks are trying to save. The The US Fish and Wildlife Service listed the big sandy crayfish as threatened, and the I don't know why to do with myself. The guy in dot river crayfish as a gillandet I don't know river crayfish as endangered per the Endangered Species Act in US Fish and Wildlife has now completed the next phase, and they're planning to protect the crawfish, establishing four and forties stream miles of habitat deemed essential for the species survival in the wild. These waters run through private, public, and state held lands. And no matter how much it care or don't care about these crayfish, it's good news because it means one thing, clean water. Anyway, this uh, this by the way, it came from News Enterprise dot com. I'm just gonna read this as a direct quote here. The critical Habitat Rule will be published in the Federal Registry today. The rule, comments and materials the service received, as well as supporting documentation used in preparing the rule, are available for public inspection at www. Dot Federal Register dot gov. Slash public hyphen inspection, search for docket number f WS dash R five dash e s dash to zero one nine dash zero zero nine eight. If you want to know more, all right, so let's roll along. I remember this is a competition. We don't know which news story the other guy brought to the table. At the end, our cherished audio engineer Phil will declare a winner, as he's known to do. It is my lead this week. I believe um so advantage to me And here's where we're going. Recently, we talked at length about the invasive brook trout across the American West, juxtaposing the issue with just how beloved brookies are in the East. Well, guess what a similar situation could be brewing this time with small mouths. Now, everybody loves smalley right negative. While Smalley's have been planted far and wide across the country, they're they're really only native to the upper and middle Mississippi River basin. So why do we love them? Because they're voracious? Uh and the damn things fight like the dickens. But we've already covered how they've become a problem in Maine um quite a while back after being illegally introduced into into watershed that grow wild trout and support landlocked salmon, which are very important to the state. Now smallmouth could be knocking on the door of Yellowstone National Park right down the street from Hayden there. Uh and if they infiltrate and take hold this this could be unlikely would be a huge problem for both the wild and native trout populations. Right perer the story on k TOO radio dot com on February, Montana State University student reported that he had caught one small mouth bass in the Gardener River, which is right outside the boundary of Yellowstone National Park, and he actually had had video to document this catch, so it's legit um. Now, the Gardener is a tributary of the Yellowstone River, which does have smallmouth bass residing in it, right. But my understanding of it is that the fish has been caught very far from the lower stretches of the Yellowstone, where small mouth are typically found, So I don't think there's necessarily a ton of mystery about how it got here. Um. But while it would have been a hell of a trek, a small mouth, again to my understanding, could theoretically swim to this location from known smalley haunts. Again, I keep in mind there there are no dams on the main stem Yellowstone that would impedea fish from swimming uh from very far away and covering a lot of ground. Now, with that in mind, I'm also not totally clear why it's being labeled as invasive. Unless small mouths are considered invasive throughout the entire Yellowstone, non native seems to be a better label. But anyway, the question here is, um, is this a fluke like a one off, or does it point to the potential for a population to take hold in this area? Now, my takeaway from the story is that wildlife officials are more concerned about keeping them out of Yellowstone National Park, specifically more so than the water is just outside of it, So it's not a matter of wanting to eradicate them from the entire system. UM. But you know, obviously, what part of what makes Yellowstone so iconic the parks so iconic is it's trout and trout fishing, and no doubt a heap of smallmouth could uh compromise that. UM. Yellowstone has already had issues for many, many years with invasive lake trout, which are arguably even more voracious than Smalley's um. You know, the lakers are mainly in Yellowstone Lake, and the rules in place say that anglers that catch them should kill those or have to kill those, and the Park Service also sets nets for lakers, and they say they kill around three hundred thousand annually. But small mouths would would, would you know, pose a bigger challenge. So Todd Cole, he's Yellowstone Supervisory Fisheries biologists, said, quote, the smallmouth bass on their own can't swim to Yellowstone Lake. So if they do get into the park, it'll be in the river systems like the Yellowstone River, the Lamar things like that. In those systems, you can't do netting the way we do on Yellowstone Lake. It's a totally different habitat. In river systems, a lot of the time they're flowing pretty strong, so you can't really put nets in large rivers like the Yellowstone. It's an advantage to the non native species. You're limited to what you can do to remove them. So it's true. Yeah, true, Trojan small is for the wind, although hopefully you know so convinced it's terrible branding for Trojan condoms. Yeah, oh man, yes, you are correct. They would that that would be memes at the wazoo. Um. Yeah, so, look, is this on is this like on on the cusp of happening? I don't really think so. I mean, right now, it's one small mouth bass, but for for the for the nonbelievers out there. You know, I'll tell you this. For years, I kept a big tank with some fish that I caught in it, you know what I mean. Had a couple of croppies swimming in the living room, a couple of pickrell and um. I remember one time I caught this micro small mouth out of this creek, I mean, this tiny, tiny little guy, and I threw him in there, and he was smaller than every fish in the tank and terrorized the living ship out of all of them. I mean, he had them cowering in the corner. I mean, a pickerel that could damn near eat him was cowering in the corner of a tank. So as much as I love small mouth bass and I do think it's cool when you have one of these rivers where trout and small mouth naturally crossover, you have some big browns and some nice small mouth. Um. Yeah, man, like they they are mean and territorial, and they can screw up a system. So would not be a good thing. If if they got into Yellowstone and really too, it would not be a good thing. Man. You know. It's it's it's interesting, and we're gonna get into this. In my news story. But um, you know, it's kind of like the double edge of a a damned river. And obviously I'm not advocating damning the Yellowstone, but a lot of times it works as an a active barrier. Um. So when you know what, let's hit an ad and let's get right into, uh, into my news story where we talk about how damns might be a good thing in a particular instance of an invasive Asian carp. Please enter your password. You have one unheard message. Goddamn you. You knew that you were supposed to get those rods from thirteen and send them my way, And now I see you all over Instagram fishing with the rods that were meant for me. Send them when you get a minute, please and thank you. Bye. End of message, Delete press seven, save deleted. All right, So, as promised before the break, this week we're talking about carp, specifically illegal carp dealers and all sorts of conservation issues that go along with that. So over the last four years, Wisconsin authorities have been trying to stop a lone wolf fish dealer from dealing his fish. Mr Lee Ping of Platteville, Wisconsin. I feel like this guy has come up before. This is not his first rodeo, and I mean it's a pretty common name. Well anyway, So he's been formally convicted of selling a very invasive species where I guess a couple of different invasive species, those being a three varieties of asian carp. All the stem from a public complaint filed in After building their case against Mr Ping using undercover agents, surveillance and GPS tracking, Wisconsin DNR file charges in. So this has been ongoing. Oh, that's probably where this came up in news. That's probably what we hit. Yeah, same dude, same issue. Here's the conviction, folks. I'd also like to know exactly what this sting operation looked like. Like I I left a message for somebody in a Grant County, Whisco where where the incident occurred, but I have yet to hear back. Anyway, Uh, they believe that mr Ping has been selling these carps for years prior to you know, uh, to to this finding and this operation and ultimately this conviction. And I think like what they tracked with, something like nine thousand pounds of live asian carp had been sold. Anyway, this was the first ever for Wisconsin d NR officials as Asian carp have never been sold in the state as far as they know. Meaning uh, I guess there are likely just more successful carp dealers than than than Mr Pink. So let's talk about these carps. I'm sure that many of you know what Asian carp are. I also assume there are many of you who are listening and thinking right at this moment, there are carp all over Wisconsin. What's the big deal? Well, the folks who know what Asian carp are are currently screaming at their phones. Asian carp are not common carp which have been kicking around Wisconsin waterways since the eighteen hundreds. Asian carp are not only highly invasive but also highly dis tructive. The main concern and Joe like you know you can bring your understanding of it here. Um. The main concern is that they outcompete native fish for both space and resources, as well as lowering the water quality, often through eating like native muscles and stuff. Um. If you've ever seen videos of like hundreds of fish flying out of the water behind a boat, those are the Asian carp we're talking about. Anyhow, One of the main reasons this is obviously problematic is the transfer of an invasive species into waterways in which they currently have not been found. Of particular concern are Asian carp getting into the Great Lakes, which could be catastrophic for the fisheries which like generate and estimated like seven billion dollars of revenue. Everything. That's a war that's been being fought for years trying to keep these things out of the joe. Last week we proved that you are not very good at a geography. Uh, but I'm sure you know this. Wisconsin borders Lake Superior, and Asian carp have been found in the Saint Croix River, which connects via wetlands to Lake Superior. This would be troublesome except for the fact that there is one much maligned but now convenient obstacle in the way, a twenty ft hydro electric dam, and after navigating this twenty ft hurdle, Asian carp would also need to get through um like these these aforementioned wetlands that that connect the end of the Saint Croix to Lake Superior. Um. Because of all this, Army Corps of Engineers is not terribly concerned about the Asian carp entering through this means, and Lake Superior seems to be safe from Wisconsin originated carp finding their way into the lake at this moment. That said, the sale of invasive species in this way to folks who might put them in Lake Superior or a nearby body of water that could indirectly transfer them into Lake Superior is still a major concern. And that's exactly exactly like what the concern is with what Mr Ping has been facilitating. Yeah, as I as I remember it, I mean, so so live live is obviously a no no, and there's some gray area even on dead, but it's just it's just too risky. I remember part of the fight last time was well this guy is repurposing them. He's taking something that we don't want anyway and creating a use for them. Um, but I recall that was the issue is that they were not all dead. Yeah, yeah, well that that's exactly like sort of it. For the record, you can still buy and transport Haitian carp in Wisconsin, just as long as they're either completely disemboweled or their gills have been completely destroyed. You know, it's like it's like anything else. I mean, you know in there are plenty of states with like the rusty crawfish right where you can transport them all you want, as long as they've been boiled, you know, or or as long as it's like just tails. The second that you try and bring one of those things live, like that's where like the problem is obviously. Um. Another interesting thing to note in this case is that Mr mr Ping was transferring these carp in unmarked refrigerated trucks, making it very hard for folks to identify him. Is like, I don't know a seller of car guy. Yeah, the car guy, yeah, Mr carp um. Yeah. Anyhow, look, it's very concerning and good for the Wisconsin DNR for hopefully nipping this in the bud. Mr Ping has obviously lost all ability to continue as a fish farmer and is ordered to pay dollars in fines as a result of a of a plea deal, which seems like not enough to be honest with you. Yeah, I mean, look, the guy. The guy is doing bad stuff. He's doing legal things at the same time, I think the argument still stands. It's like, if this guy could just do this right, could just follow the rules, he's doing a good thing, right, he is he is repurposing something that shouldn't be here. And and I mean a little more on these carp A lot of them are filter feeders. They very but is he doing a good thing? Like why farm him at all? But see my interpretation of that is I don't necessarily think just he may very well own a fish farm or what he calls a fish farm, doesn't necessarily mean that he's growing the Asian carp. I think that that that kind of sums it up. It doesn't. It doesn't have documentation of how they were caught, which means he probably also has an illegal commercial operation. So if I'm correct on that, the point kind of stands that it's like, if he were just doing everything he's doing on the up and up, if he's got enough buyers for Asian carp, great kill as many as you possibly can and sell them. So you know, this is one of those deals where it's like, dude, how hard is it to to get the permits and do it the right way? You know? But I won't take away I mean he's not, so therefore he kind of deserves what he gets. I mean, rules is rules, Marty, You know what I mean? Rules is rules, Joe, And to that end, I believe that Phil Taylor, our beloved engineer, is going to issue his ruling on on who wins Fish News. Uh. You know, Joe, you want to you want to make the segway or I do it. No, I'll do it, becau. As soon as we're done here and from Phil, we're gonna take a We're gonna take a little spin on the most ridiculous vehicle that we've ever seen. The winner this week is Hayden Sammick. Hayden, thank you so much for that story. But I would like to say a big no thank you to these officials in Wisconsin because that guy was also my psychedelic toad dealer. And now I'm going to have to find something else to lick in the bathroom at work. Why did you put the hand to pay? You don't know what I'm getting, man, You didn't have to be so hurtful with me so angry. Big shout out to listener James Helen for sending this one along. Uh. And it's a bit of a departure for us. Okay, we're sort of entering a new octagon here because we um we typically lean on on old, weird, beat up stuff from Craigslist and the like. Uh, and occasionally we'll dabble in cheap gimmickry from like the Facebook marketplace. But the item up for auction today is probably BLI. If it's not the highest priced item we've ever had, it's got to be close. Um, And in my opinion at least, it's it's one of the most absurd and I'm curious to see if we're going to agree on that. Yeah. The only thing I think that it's like comparably priced and like comparably categorized would be do you remember what we did that that converted fish camper thing. Yeah, that was going for now, that was going for like five or six grand. Okay, well that this is Yeah, that's still cheaper than what we're gonna talk about anyhow. Okay, Yeah, So it's it's definitely fair to say that this item has a fishing application, but it transcends just fishing. And what we're talking about is the Z Triton. This is the future. This is Z tried on, a boat, tricycle and a camper combined in one. Z Z tritan, a self propelled vehicle that is a tricycle, boat and RV all wrapped up into one oh so convenient package. Yeah kind of, and to get wrapped up into one yourself with some modicum of comfort. I hope you're very very small, like not Joe Sameli or Hayden Samack sized. But you got you could do it. I couldn't. So what is this? Well, it's the brainch out of Latvian designer eye gars Louses and isn't wowsers Louses? I mean, I know, isn't. Isn't you honest of Latvian descent? Because I'm sure I'm butchering that name and I'll probably hear about it. No, No, they call him the Latvian equal because he's Irish. Uh yeah, oh you're right. Yeah anyway, Um, so so this this feller has got a four minute video on his website that tells the story of how the z Triting came to be. And it came to be because I's um took it upon himself to bike more than thirty thousand kilometers from London to Tokyo, which tells me, at minimum he probably doesn't have children. Anyway, we all know how hard it can be taking your touring bike thirty tho kilometers because it can't cross water, it is not a boat, and you have to carry your tent and things and set the darn thing up every night, which is just that just sucks. If only there were a tricycle capable that is also an RV and a boat. Yeah, so so I gres was like, obviously I need to find a solution to this very common problem. I came up with a solution that combines a small boat, a tricycle, and a tiny compa. Not long after, I build a first mock up in phm board while still on the road during your stopover in Shanghai, and that's how it all began. Afterwards, I returned to Europe, set up a company and built the first Z tried on prototype. It's a it's a hard thing to describe. It's weird. Man. Yeah, we don't really know where to start with it. But immediately what comes to mind is that it looks like the escape vehicle Jeff Bezos would use. If it's like mega yacht sanc can picture that. Yeah, of course we'll like throw shots this on Instagram today, but try to picture this up front. You got like a wheel and handlebars and a folding bicycle seat that extends over the stern, which is complete with like cleats and what appeared to be like run you know runners. Yeah, okay, now if you're moving backwards away from that stern. Now, now you get to what's sort of the r V portion. So picture a very like geometric e glue on the back of glow boat. Iglueglue e glue iglue. Yeah yeah, so uh the igloo has solar panels. Um and in the video I even has a plant growing out of a special plant holder on the roof that, according to the video, allows you to take your favorite plant with you, and a pot that allows you to take your favorite plant on an adventure with you. Um. Now there are wheels built into the underside. If you real quick, if you have to take a plant with you to go out into nature, you don't belong there, man, Like that's something about there's a nice thing about nature. Man. There are lots of plants already out there, yes, yes, right, So now now there are wheels built into the underside of of the of this boat. Um, which makes the whole package a tricycle on land. But then on what are you fold those rear wheels up inflate and strap on some pontoons, right, uh, And the entire front pedal drive folds up, the roof slides back, and now you have a boat complete with an electric trolling motor and a steering wheel. It even has a tiny instrument panel for you know, like interior and exterior lights, plus a fan. Um and and those of you familiar with the tricked out tuggy sandboxes that have come up so many times on this show, this puts them all to shame, right, this is this is like a a a a high production level tricked out tuggy. And of course there are even oars in case you you run out of juice. Now, like the there is an incredible amount of engineering and technology and the Z Tritan, there's no denying that it's got solar panels and in trike mode it has an electric motor assist, so like you know, like like sort of e bike, Right, it's got Bluetooth. Hey, there's even us B charging. And in camper mode, which isn't much different than bow mode, you have a tiny table room to sleep too if you're like very intimately inclined each other, and plenty of storage for as it like notes your ruck sacks and there are like you know, as we've been kind of bringing clips in, there's this weird like I don't know how to describe it. Well, maybe it's like if you described um outdoor pursuits to somebody who has never been outside before. And like the photos of the things people are doing on the site, like in this thing, all right, well, I I'm gonna get that. I got I gotta I gotta talk about one thing in particular, man. So number one, there's this weird infatuation with ruck sacks, rucks extent like igar fields the need to include. And then the from Latfia they don't have I don't know if they have jam sports over there they anyway, there you're gonna get us in trouble with be honest. There's a there's a photo of a um doing air quotes like you can't see it, but I'm doing them. Um of a wildlife photographer, Dude, this is my favorite part of this whole thing. And it's like a clip of him photographing who knows what with this like telephoto lens. But like what's so funny about it is he's shooting his photo through the plexiglass windshield. Yeah. Well, well, it's not even that. It's like, I'm not a photographer, but I assume that you would probably be inclined to, like, I don't know, move six inches to the right or left and get around the windshield instead of shooting through it. Number two, the dude is in So another thing about this the z triton is that it's like aggressively teal right, that's very bright. Yes, yes, it's like de pressively aggressive. And the dude is sitting in the middle, is very conspicuous craft in a cameo poncho with full face paint. And he pulls up the camera to take this picture and is not looking at like the the l c D screen viewfinder. He's not looking at like the manual viewfinder, like the little I don't know he has it. He has like everything pressed right up against his forehead in such a way that he would never be able to see out of either of these things if you find her or the screen. I know, I know, dude, I know that the marketing photos chosen are strange. But we'll we'll, we'll move on with this. I also just want to add they didn't linger on the sleeping of the two people very long in the video because like you'd have to have no desire to roll over at any point in the night. Romantic, we can get ways, so listen, right, we need not debate. I think the value of the product if you're genuinely the person that is going to to take it long distances and use all these features too, I don't I mean basically live off the grid for a little while, but I think that's very few people overall. So to just look at it from a fishing perspective, I don't know, right, because while it does pack so much into one vehicle, it looks to me like you have room for nothing. Right and on the water, um, I get the impression like it'd be fine if you don't move or shift your weight while you're operating this at a boat. So imagine being crammed into a pod with your your tackle on your lap, trying to maneuver the boat, casting fighting fish. I mean, I could not find the exact spects on the website, but the whole package can't be much longer than ten feet. And if you've ever been fishing on a ten foot john boat, especially with two people, which I have, and it sucks right now, now, imagine doing so on a ten foot John boat that also has a roof and a cabin and extra parts and pieces just sprouting from everywhere. Yeah, I mean in theory it makes sense. Well, you know, bike to the lake fish Lake camp on the banks. But for the privilege of doing that with one kind of clunky vehicle, you're paying north of fifteen grand. Fifteen thousand dollars, that is, that is the price. Now, I mean, dude, at five grand, maybe I could see it six grand, you know, but I just can't help but think about what fifteen thousand dollars buys you in like use truck caps and and used aluminum boats. Um, so let's call it like it is. You've already hinted as much. Even if you had the money for this. If you saw someone roll up to the lake in this John and splash, like, would you be like, oh my god, how neat is that? Would that that's would that be your reaction? Yep? No, it probably wouldn't. Probably probably not even lying. My reaction would like I would wave at this person. I'd be like, oh hey, man, how's it going, you know, And in the second that I thought that that individual was out at earshot I'd like turn to my buddy and just ridicule that person, just mercilessly. Number one. I imagine whoever whoever is driving it has like a turtleneck on, and like definitely those uh who makes them? Those water like sandals with like the clothes toe, like the inner the keen that they think they're keen. You know what I'm talking about? Not really, but yeah, okay, just imagine like the most like uh, what do you bob call him? Mouss Yeah, imagine that would drive Yeah, yeah, just like upper Elite Granola hybrid kind of vehicle, like somebody who likes to think of them as an outdoorsman, but it is really like a house cat. Well, yeah, you heard it here first, upper Elite Granola or whatever you just said. I don't, yeah, I I would at least be making fun of you in my head. So check this thing out. We'll post it. We'd love to know what you guys think. Anyway, Jeff, thanks for sending that along. It was fun. Um yeah, we're curiously what you guys have to say about it. The website, if you're interested, is z dash Triton dot com. If you've gone away to get your hands on your own Z Triton. We have great news for you, z trites and two point oh it's ready for production. So take a step into the future, pre Z Triton. Now I'm start planning your next adventure, Z tried On. And hey, if you find something fishing related and ridiculous for sale on the world wide Web, do please make sure to send those links to Bent at the meat eater dot com. Dude, I don't know what it is man that wildlife photographer, Just like I think we should post that too. You know, it doesn't make a big Z triton, but we should. One of us should throw that up to Yeah. I came like so close to comment on the YouTube video, but as is so often the case, I I type something, thought about it, and then deleted it. Yeah, and that's the right thing to do. Like I I don't ever like, I don't really drop comments unless it's like a Bent fan or a buddy of mine and I have something to say. I don't like I would. Yeah, I gers doesn't need to hear my thoughts. It's fine, He's hearing it enough from other people. No. Yeah, it was something that took a surprising amount of like self restraint although there's a certain freedom and just like relentlessly sharing your thoughts, uh, even when unsolicited. Well it's kind of like this podcast anyway. Good news For some reason, people are actually asking us to share our thoughts. And this week we're gonna try our best to help one listener figure out why he sucks at striper fishing on the bent helpline. What do you laughing at, Markini? You're not an idiot, you're not a gambloning help more, you're a fisherman. What's your emergency? This week we've got a question from listener Richard Jackson, who hails from the so Cow High Desert and he's a striper guy. So I'm about that um a little all over the place here with the question, but we're gonna try and whittle it down. So he says, I have a question about targeting wintertime freshwater stripe bass from the bank as I don't own a boat and the lake I love to fish, which I'm gonna keep out of it. We don't need to burn the dude. Spot does not allow boats or any watercraft. What is your favorite retrieve for a bucktail in the winter. I usually use a half ounce or one ounce bucktail year round, but it seems that all I catch in winter is large mouths and small mouths. I want to up my game and get a twenty pounds striper this year, but relying on the spring and fall run feels like it can be too easy. And I will verify what he says next. They'll hit a polished herd if you throw it into one of those massive boils. The bucktails I throw are usually white red shart truths. Do you think guys should switch to black or blue forgetting them when they are deeper in the winter. Um, I said, there's a there's a lot going on there. But I I think now, granted I know a lot about stripers on the East coast, no fair amount about stripers inland and the Carolinas in Tennessee and how that game works. Have not fished for them, um in so Caw or out west. But they're gonna behave. I mean stripers behave like stripers. And really, Richard, I think that the issue here, which we can talk more about, UM, you're not casting to where they are. I just I I kind of think look at having looked up the body of water that you're fishing, it's pretty deep. It's fairly big reservoir, and even though your winters are warmer, certainly than out here, I would suspect that stripers are still gonna do wintertime things, and here that's often they go with the bait, right and in the wintertime bait suspends in in open water, sometimes very deep, and the stripers will suspend out there with it. So I don't really think it's the lure or the color or the approach. Um. I just don't think from sure you can get you didn't give me any you can get the bucktail to the stripe bass. Now I'm laughing, folks, because when Joe and I were talking about selecting a question, I told him. I was like, well, here's what I know about this. It's not much, so I'm going to give the basic answer and then you come and elaborate. And Joe, you just stole everything that I told you. I was about to say, well, I mean, we've just informed the listener, though, have we not? What would you like to have you up? Well, I was going to say that he's in a reservoir and those fish are probably suspending deep and what he needs to do is find, uh, find where that is and it's not so much the color, but because you've already said that, I'm just gonna shut the heck up and let you keep going. No, no, no, dude, that's look. I'm not saying that this. I'm not saying that they're is not a a spot within that reservoir, or maybe you'd be more successful. I don't know what the underwater topography looks like. I don't know where the drops are, but it is a very good chance that those fish in the dead of winter are suspended out there in twenty or thirty or fifty ft of water where all the bait is. Um. Wait, wait, hey, hey, what's it called? We're I'll delete it. I'll like, I'll delete the thing you see if it's on Nabionics. My free dram membership expired. Okay, sorry, moving on. So it's funny though that he he brings up um only catching small mouths and large mounts in the winter, right, because anywhere you go hair jigs in general, whether it's bucktail or synthetic or we we've talked about float and fly on here, very good wintertime bait. But I also think just the fact the loan that he's catching large mouths and small mouths in the winter also points to him not being necessarily deep enough. We're in the right places, you know what I mean? Like thinking about where stripers set up on rivers and lakes. Here, you're typically not catching the stripers where the small mouths are. They just do different things. Yeah, yep, um, well I'm satisfied. Without answer, Joe, what do you think? I think I think he's probably learned something from that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I feel bad now that you haven't contre But in fairness, I didn't ask you to team me up for your carbon monoxide deal. I'll let you have the floor. That's your area of expertise, is it not. I'm going to take the carbon oxide alarms out of your shandy, Joe. So that's it for this week. Make sure to camo up in your super yacht, life boat winds, snapping pictures of pheasants from a safe distance. Break out those swim baits, even if you don't think there's a bass big enough to eat one in your lake. And remember, putting your ice gear in the storage unit and organizing your warm winter gear definitely counts as spring cleaning. Yeah, and whether it's a more spring or more winter where you are, keep using those degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags on the old Instagram. Uh, we always love to see what you're catching. Help me live vicariously through you we do. And finally, remember that while we encourage the investment in some high quality swin baits, don't come crying us when you put them in a tree. Within three casts,