00:00:06 Speaker 1: You've been a fly fishing guide. Yeah, I was a fly fishing guide for seven long days, which prompted the folks at Gidness to just dissolve the title of world shortest river entirely, because really, who gives them? We wonder if that's pepper spray at taser or a clock on his sidebow. And I was just like, this deck is It sounds and feels like I am walking on saltine crackers right now. Good morning, degenerate anglers, and welcome to Bend the Fishing podcast that kindly asked you to remove any cigarettes or lithium batteries from that carry on bag of bad juju you're trying to bring aboard our flight to guaranteed slave Festville. I'm Joe Surmelli. I'm Miles Balty, and uh well, I'm not entirely sure where you're going. That was pretty good, I don't I liked all of that, and props to you, sir for putting it together. Thanks man, I appreciate that very much. Here's where I'm going, without thinking about it too long, name the first person that comes to mind that's guaranteed to turn what by all counts should be like a really good day of fishing into an absolute suck fest with nothing more than his or her presence. Oh that's easy. That that would be me, this guy right here. Yep, yep. Uh. You know, come to think about it, I can kind of attest to that a little bit now that you caught me off guard. But I can kind of attest. Okay, all right, so it's it's you that's it's expected but fair. Next question, then, do you have a slang term for people like yourself, like these dark clouds of vibe crushing and mojo killing? Um my, my super ego. I don't know, No, I don't. I think I see where this is going now, and and I'm with you. I want to have this East versus West semantic slang discussion about you know, this topic, but I don't. I actually don't have a word for that. I don't. I don't know that we have such a word out here. So I'm just gonna tee you up and say, what do you call him? Joe gouchers? My preferred term, yes, my preferred term for those people that just seem to drain the life out of any water or like they conjure wind and rain and hail when none of that was forecast. Those are guchers, right, And I did not invent the term. I actually heard it on a party boat years ago, and believe it or not, it has an interesting origin that fits bent to a t. It's just it's just it's so bent. But I'm gonna save that for today's Weekly Words segment, right, But I do think it's important to point out that while it might be easy to say, well, well, stop fishing with these people, stop fishing with Miles if he's a goucher, right, You're not bad folks, right, Like all, or at least most of the guchers I know, are people that I enjoy like. I want to fish with them. I want them to hook up and have a great day. But despite me saying well, this time will be different, this can't possibly last forever like that funk can be strong enough that there's just no breaking out of it. Man. You know, yeah, uh, I want to talk about the gucher thing and give my thoughts. I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna spoil it. I don't want to get hut of the Weekly Word, but I'm excited for that because I know exactly what it makes me think of it. But anyway your point, Can I just say that it sucks being a gucher? Can I just say, like, yeah, it sucks, just just by virtue of the fact that I have fished so much in my life. I have had many, many incredible days. But it's pretty safe to assume that if I'm booked on a fishing trip, even too good odds that the conditions are going to be tough. It's not gonna be the optimal conditions. Like I said, I can attest to that. I know, and that was bad. But I've got many other stories like that, perhaps the worst one. I once got the trip of a lifetime to fish Cuba, like Cuba and dream Trap. Yeah, the day I arrived, the weather turns so bad that our entire group only got to fish one day out of the four we had playing because, like, it was so bad we couldn't even launch the skiffs. It was so bad for for most of the time we were there, So we ended up spending most of the trip drinking herculean quantities of beer and rum because what else you gonna do. Yeah, and we're not even like mainland Cuba. We're on the small island off the mainland of Cuba. There there's really not much to do besides fish and drink. I had a blast, but I went there to catch stupid tarpan, not sloppy on a beach, and I shouldn't complain. This is the definition of a first world problem. I know. But the worst part about being a goucher's exactly what you're talking about. People are afraid to invite you on fishing. I'm afraid I should say that people won't invite me on fishing trips, not because they don't like me, but because I'm a bad omen right, Like that's my fear. Like I'm like, wow, Joe is not gonnavite me back now because he thinks I'm a gucher. That there goes my invite anyway. I just the thing is right with gucher's it's you're not a goucher if the bad luck only extends to yourself, like everyone else is whacking them and you're not a gucher, brings down the whole tribe. Man, that's the problem. That's what I'm talking about. I know, I know, But enough about me. I'm assuming that you have a favorite gucher that runs from your circles. I do. I absolutely do. And he's my dad and he listens to all these shows, so I will hear about this. But even he won't deny it. Like if he were joining us as a guest right now, he'd be like, yeah, he's not lying, Like I dude, I could hammer fish on Tuesday and have identical conditions Wednesday. Get him out there and we won't touch a fish, or we'll we'll just get one where I got one hundred, like at the zero hour, like just before dark, like, oh, there's your one, and it's maddening. And it has been like this for years. Right, And he's the worst because he's a freaking multi species goucher. It doesn't matter what you're fishing for, he will shut it down, right, And because I would actually say, I'm curious if you agree it's more common to be a species specific goocher. Like Frankly, first of all, we all have a little goucher in this from time to time, right, but I consider myself like a full time muskie goucher. Right, it doesn't matter how good the fellows were doing last week, I will shut it off, okay um. And I even once had a buddy. Note, I said once, because we're really not boys anymore, that I accused of being a tuna gucher while seventy miles off shore. And he was so offended and adamant that he was not the gooch that he kind of stopped talking to me. Anyway. Look, yeah, and and and so you'll hear more about my dad's goocheness in that aforementioned Weekly Words segment. I'm not done with him yet, just so he knows Dad that for the back stepping back though, that former buddy of yours needs to have thicker skin totally. I'm sorry. Like, yeah, the best, the real gouchers, the good gouchers. We own our gucins, like like your dad myself. And speaking of your father, I'll bring it back to that. I do have a little advice for him. My advice to him is to arm himself with a selection of lures from our good friends at thirteen Fishing. I personally suggest my name is Jeff, which comes with a proprietary anti gooch force field cooked right into the plastic. So now now he's gonna call me and be like, give me some of them. Jeff's that Myles was talking about like I have to be the supplier. He's not gonna go out and look for that. But anyway, that's a terrific suggestion. And the actual name of these four inch floating swim baits, right is My name's Jeff. They named the damn Lord. My name is Jeff, and we love that. We've said how much we love their names. I also really like the Lord because they got a hollow belly. It was like a little air trapped in there, so they fall a little slower on a jakehead rise a little higher on drop shot. Keep that in mind. It's good stuff all around, like great stuff. And here's some more great stuff. We are going to move into smooth moves. And joining us today is our good friend and very accomplished photographer Brian Gregson. Now this was recorded, I believe while you guys were in Ohio shot Doss Boat. That's correct, the Dost Boat sessions. Yes, yep. And this is I think almost certainly the shortest smooth move we've ever had, mostly because Brian prefers he likes to be behind the scenes. He wants to be behind the camera. He makes the media. He doesn't like doing it. He hates being on podcasts, and he nearly stopped being my friend when I wrote a short film about him some years ago, which is a good film. You should check it out. Anyway, he got over that, and he'll get over being on our podcast because we needed him. His story fits our same this week, and I'm gonna call it like a cautionary tale for all those guchers out there. The first step towards turning your look around might be admitting that you are bad luck. You've gotta be self aware and maybe a little more in tune with your environment, which the subject of this story really doesn't seem to be. Why sitting down today in the great state of Ohio on the it's not really a set of dos boat, is it. I guess it could be a set, Yeah, but I'm sitting here with my buddy Brian Gregson, and there's there's so many things you do. I don't even know how to set you up. Like. You're a badass photographer, right photos? Yeah, you have one of those codact disposable cameras, right Yeah. Yeah, You've worked on a commercial tuneaboat. You've been a fly fishing guide. Yeah, I was a fla fishing guy for seven long days. Basically though, like you've done all the things that everybody wants to do. Like so I'm like, I'm very jealous of the things. I feel like when I talk to you, I'm like, I've done nothing with my life. You've been everywhere and done everything I've done. I've been fortunate to do a lot of things, but I think that you have to give up a lot of things too. I also heard that you don't really love being on podcast. Is that accurate? Yeah, you know, I work better behind the scenes. Um, I feel more comfortable with a camera in my hand looking through a view find it than I do in front of a camera. Okay, well, but so that that noted. I appreciate you doing bend. I appreciate this is. This is I'm I'm proud because people have like tried to get you and you're just like nah, nah, right right. Yeah. I had one one friend talked me into it and there was no way out of it. I was cornered into it and I did it. But well, I mean, we're we're staying in the same place. You can't say no because every day I'll just be like you're coming upstairs and sitting down and we're doing this, um. But you you know what smooth moves is all about, right, So because of all the different things you've done, this smooth move could come from any aspect of all these cool things you've done with your life. So I'm very excited because I have no idea what you're bringing in the table, right, So the floor is yours. Man, hit me with a smooth move. Well, you know, over the years, you see a lot of smooth moves. I'm fortunate enough to spend my time with a lot of anglers and guides all over the world, and you hear all the smooth moves, um, and one that kind of stands out. So this didn't happen to you. This is that's fair. That's it. And I hate to throw anybody I know under the bus. Um. One of my favorite parts of your podcast is a smooth moves. I'm always cringinging. I'm like, oh, man, I hope I'm not that person that happened to me, and I've never wind up on him. So you're gonna go this route and you're gonna tell a smooth move about something that had this somebody else. Yeah, but it was it was a good friend of mine. The guide in the Caribbean and had a new anger in his boat and his first time, to believe, very excited, very smart person on paper um, and he noted the water and he's like, wow, this is the most beautiful water I've ever seen in my life and it is. It's unbelievable. Turk course great yea. And the guy's like, hey, should take some home with you. So he's like, oh man, that's a great idea. I'm emptied his water bottle and filled it up. I might have happened to maybe or may not, been on the boat, screwed the cap on and he went to look at it. And it was at that moment I think it's just so overwhelmed. Don't even think about it. Because he looked up at it, it's like, that's the color of water. What gives it? The color is the bottom? Right, But you know, first time or smart guy of paper, but maybe not so. The clincher there is just I'm sure it was suggested in that perfect like yeah, and you have take some home. It was like, yeah, well, of course you'll be sweet, you know, and just expected to have a bottle of turquoise the shell exactly. But nobody else house on what you said about being in tune with your environment is accurate because often, okay, but not always, I find that a goucher like they have the desire, right, they have the moxie, they want the fish, but they're just like a step or two behind in the big picture of angling. Right, here's an example. Here's an example, right, Like, I once jumped on a boat with a guy I never met. I knew most of the people, but there was one outlier I never met. And as we're breaking the inlet at two o'clock in the morning, the dudes like, we never catch tuno when I'm on the boat, and because I believe in the power of the gooch, I was like, god, damn it, like I don't want to be here now. And sure enough we caught zip right, just blank. But while me and everyone else were like racking our brains looking at colored charts and changing lures and doing whatever we could figure out how we can turn this around, how we can swing this around, Like that dude was just in a bean chair, you know what I mean, Like he can cast in real but he's not overly interested in in the harder worker details. So again I am not always because when I fish for muskies, right, which is rare, but when I'm doing it, I do it pretty hard and I still can't really catch them. So maybe what do I know? You know, No, see, this is a semantic argument. It's not my word, but I don't care. I'm gonna argue it anyway. To me, that's not a gucher. That's that's a disinterested angler. That's someone who lacks one of the primary qualities that you gotta have to be good at and truly enjoy fishing. I reserve gucher for people like me who are explicably cursed with consistent bad luck. But maybe I'm just being defensive, But that's how I define that term. No, I mean, I just I think it works both ways. Like I know really devoted anglers that are just bad luck. But I also know a lot of people that are bad luck but also just don't try very hard either, Like my dad comes to mind again here, Like I'll put it this way, like they don't go out of their way to change the luck. They just resign to the suck and say like, oh wow, this is always what happens when I'm here, and just like leave it at that. You know, yeah, that's just that's just bringing negativity into it, like that's harsh in my mellow. That's no. You know, you can't do they can't give up like that. Yeah. Anyway, we've all waited long enough to get the origin story of gucher. I know, I know where I hope this thing is going, but I'm actually unsure where this term came from. So please, the floor is yours. Let's get on with that weekly word. Webster's Dictionary defines fish as the gooch. Most of you know it's a slang term for a specific male body part located between two other male body parts, and this also explains why several of the Urban Dictionary definitions of the word gucher wouldn't be anything you'd want to repeat at the church picnic their guy. Okay, So now that that's out of the way, I'm thrilled to announce that goucher, as I've been using it to describe a person with the magical ability to curse a fishing day, has nothing to do with body parts or deviant acts. Its origin comes from the classic film Stand By Me. If you are unfamiliar with stand By Me, well shame write the hell on You You need to Get Familiar Asap. It was written by Stephen King and set in nineteen sixty and it follows a group of young friends on a coming of age journey to find the body of a missing boy. That group of friends is played by eighties grades like Corey Feldman, Will Wheaton, Jerry O'Connell, and the Late River Phoenix. The antagonist none other than Key for Sutherland as the thug Ace Meryl. The entire thing is narrated by Richard Dreyfuss, and it was Stand By Me that introduced the world to the concept of mailbox baseball. In a scene that slips by most viewers, the boys are trying to decide which of them will have to go to the store to buy provisions for their upcoming hike to find that dead body. To decide, they all flip a coin. The outcome of that flip is four tails or what Verne, the chubby member of the group played by Jerry O'Connell, refers to as a goocher. It turns out that the opposite all heads in the toss of multiple coins is called a moon, and it's a sign of good luck and good things to come. A goucher, of course, is a sign of pending bad luck and doom, making it perfectly for voting in the movie because the kids pilgrimage is pretty rife with struggle. Per the Internet, there is no history of the terms moon or goucher as signs of good or bad luck anywhere outside Stephen King's book and the later movie, suggesting that King either coined the term himself or maybe it was something he and his buddies used when they were kids. My dad is both a huge Stephen King fan and, as I said earlier, a huge goocher, and so is his buddy Mike, who he's known since college. Mike's inability to catch fish is semi legendary, and I've been hearing stories about it since i was ten years old, which is right around when Mike and my dad first started taking me shad fishing. As it naturally happens. Nowadays, I'm the one taking my dad shad fishing, and nine times out of ten, because he's just like a Gucasaurus rex, the fishing is extremely tough. Mike is such a gooch that he couldn't even get on my boat, let alone catch anything. Literally every single time I set a date to row Mike and my dad down the river. Whether or high water or COVID or something forced us to cancel the trip. I'm not even kidding. This went on for three years, So finally this past May, after rescheduling twice, I got Mike and my Dad on my boat. It was a beautiful afternoon, though very late in the shadd season, so late, in fact, that my expectations were about nil, but much to my surprise, we positively whacked them. It was so good I could only set two lines instead of four because I just couldn't keep up. Those old timers had the best day of fishing they've had in years, maybe decades. I mean, hell, they're still talking about it to this day. But I'm only left wondering, have I figured out the secret formula? Does two Gucher's equal one ringer? Does the bad luck become a force for good when they crossed the streams like in Ghostbusters? This is something you should probably ask me next Chad season if I can get them out again. Possibly, maybe, almost certainly my favorite weekly word. Yes, that movie was the only place I had heard the terms Gucher and moon, and I'm so happy we got to talk about yet another Stephen King story on this show. Yeah, one of my favorite authors. But I was hoping I really wasn't. I'm a little disappointed because I was hoping you'd be able to provide the etymological history of those words. Yeah. I was one in that, I I know, and I was really hoping that too, and I tried, right, but no, like all the signs point to, it just seems that that King seems to be the person who brought those into the common lexicon. Yeah, well, good for him. Shakespeare did it, Chaucer did it. Stephen King did it? Good for Stephen King. In contrast to our previous conversation about a movie adaptation of a King book, I actually love the film stand by Me. I'm not gonna say it's better than the book, but it's close. Now, having said that, I have a question for you. The story that stand by Me was based on, titled The Body, was published in a collection of four novellas called Different Seasons. Three of those novellas went on to become movies. Can you name either of the other two without googling? Oh? I So I'm gonna take a wild stab and say that one was shaw Shank just because it's it's I know, I know. King wrote that it's non horror and it's set in the same time frame, stand by me. But the other one I wouldn't know accurate, well done, Yes story, the story was called Read a Hayworth and the shaw Shank Redemption. They shortened it, and yeah, it's a great story. Another really excellent one in that collection, another good reason to read it. The other two stories are APT Pupil and The Breathing Method. APT Pupil was also made a new movie, but it was not very good. Yeah you know that one. I recognized the name. I don't think I saw it though, don't. That's that's like Nazi stuff, right, Yeah, there, there's there's a there's a Nazi Nazi twings to it. Yeah, yeah, it's creepy. The book was much better and on that different seasons. Is probably my favorite Stephen King book of all time, And if I could find a way to spin it as a fishing book, I would definitely make it Philistines. But the only thing I could come up with is that the bad guys cover story that they're planning to tell the cops is that they were out steel Head fishing when they found the body, and I just don't think that's enough of a connective thread to make it work. Um, but I do hope that I can come up with some better connective threads to move between our stories in this week's fish news. Fish news that escalated quickly. Okay, So in case you weren't paying attention to my end the mediator social channels this week, Episode one of doss Boat Northeast, which would be Doss Boats season three, is now live. And guess who took over hosting duties this season? Miles? Any thoughts on that? I mean, who could it be? I can't imagine. The choices are endless Phil. It's not Phil, although I would watch the ship out of that. Um, the answer would be me. I am now the host of doss Bow. Yeah. So super pumped and honored to have doss Bow, which of course existed long before I got to media right, honored to have that happening on my turf. And as we've hinted at on this show, you're gonna see a whole bunch of bent regulars in dost Boat this season. It's true. And let me just say, I am so happy that you wound up with the hosting duties. I spent, as you know, years of blood, sweat and tears working on the show, helping bring this thing into existence, writing it, producing it. And so to have you take over the helm, shall you speak of the host and dudes, just makes me really happy. And you're not alone like you were saying, are are good? Buddy Staaten Island's native son, Frank Cressitelly plays a major role. He's he's the boat fixer. I think this is the way what you called it, which accurate, which is accurate? Uh, And let me tell you, I don't think there's ever been a doss boat in the history of doss boats that's required more work and effort than this one. True facts, true facts. So this year, right, we're running a nineteen foot nineteen seventy three Mako center console. And while that's a classic, super classic Northeast boats, it's also the kind of boat that guys want. They want these older boats to restore them and make them perfect again. The thing is, most of the time, when you find them, like on a front lawn in Delaware where we found ours, she's got issues and we weren't spared any of them. We were not spared any of the issues. I was there on the ground when we found it, and I was just like, this deck is like it literally it sounds, it sounds and feels like I am walking on saltine crackers. Actually you called me. I was like, I don't know, I don't know if we can fix that. Should we do it? And it was insane? Right, But also, you have to consider finding a used boat right now on a tight budget. It's not super easy. Okay, like it's I think I actually think it's getting a little better. But going back to last spring, early last spring, there were not a lot of great use boat options. Yeah, and we had this tight budget. So Frank and I looked at this thing. We just kind of set a prayer and went for it. Gave the man his money, but damn it, we whipped her into shape. We did, you did. And and beyond that, I mean, beyond that whole origin story of the boat. Uh, the saga of this season is impressive, and so are the results. Right. The season kicks off with you chasing stripers with old cal Ryan callahand before embarking on a two thousand mile adventure around the right side of the country, Fisher cought Oliver and I gets on board. At one point, our buddy j Siemens makes it appearance. We even put Ross robertson on the damn thing this year. Yeah, maybe against our better judgment, we did that for some reason. I kid if I kid, of course, we had a great time. Who else Blaine Chocolate on the action Yeah, Briandrassi, Christine Fisher And despite how exhausting truly this season was to put together, I had a lot of fun. And I really hope you guys follow along for the next six weeks on the YouTube. There's gonna be We got snack heads, we got Kobe Is, got Walleyes. If you're into that, you're you're into the Walleye thing, you know, kidding. It's all good ship. It's it's really came together. Well it is, it is. It's really good. Uh. But now let's get into the this newsy goodness that we got going on. As a reminder, this is a competition. Joe and I do not know which stories the other one is bringing to the table. And at the end of it, our auditory Dolly Lama filled, the engineer will find a state of grace and decide which one of us will attain enlightenment. M hm. And this week you have the honor of starting us off. I hope, I hope you brought some good stuff. I'm looking forward to it. What have you got? Maybe I don't know if it's good. I just don't know anymore. I just kind of never worry anyway. So here you go. Listen up, hockey fans, because this one is for you. Yes, And just a quick side note. Um, while I've never really been a sports fan, I think I've said that on here, Like I don't watch football or baseball, I just really don't give a shit. In my youth, I was a pretty big hockey fan. Hockey was my thing for a while. I think we're talking into fish news in the past anyway, I I think so. Yeah, I was a big San Jose Sharks fan. I also loved the Florida Marlins, if you see where I'm going here. However, I was an l A Raiders fan because the Dolphins, as we all know anyway, anyway, they've done turns out hockey goalie Pete Peters, and I love that name. Pete Peters. What a great name. He is a very passionate angler. Now Pete Peters was an NHL goaltender in the early nineteen eighties. A matter of fact, he won the Vezina Trophy for being the best goaltender in two eighty three when he played for the Boston Pruins. His real claim to fame, however, and this is I love this so much, was that he was in goal for the Philadelphia Flyers in two season, which was the season when Wayne Gretzky was striving for a fifty goal season, and he scored goals forty six through fifty on Peters in the same game. Oh, that's not what you want to be known for. Peters is also quick to brag that the first goal Mario Lemieux ever scored in the NHL was on him. So I like this guy, Like this is the stuff, like when you meet him, apparently he talks about right, and I'm like, that's awesome. I I I love it. I love it. So anyway, I explain all this because Peters likes to joke that he's the one that made Gretzky famous, right by letting in goals six through fifty in a single game. And now he's telling fishing guide Kevin Ostrada that he's done the same for him. He's made him famous too. So not long ago, Peters and some buds chartered Estrata to take them out sturgeon fishing on the Fraser River. Peters and his crew ended up reeling in a white sturgeon bigger than any recorded in modern history. The fish taped out at eleven feet six inches, and Estrata estimated the weight at jest shy of nine hundred pounds. Now, I don't know if you've seen the photos of this fish. If they've they've crossed your desk. It's frightening, dude. It's so big, like it doesn't even look real. I mean, the head on that fish, it's it's just nuts. Now. According to the story, right, it's definitely a British Columbia provincial record, and Estrata claims to be reaching out to Guinness about the catch. But it's not going to qualify for a world record because Peters traded the rod off with with his buddies a few times. So Astrata has been fishing the Frasier for fifteen years. They actually talks about him crying in the article. All he talks about it because he's like, I've never seen a fish like this, and he absolutely credits this with some pretty strict conservation efforts, right, Like, sturgeon have been catching release only on the Frasier since the early two thousand's um and it's very likely that this fish is well over a hundred years old, right. Um. Now, I assume that they're saying this is the biggest sturgeon recorded in modern times, because I guess because I feel like I've even seen stuff like this, you probably have to. While some photographic evidence exists of fish this big or bigger, like a lot of what I've seen is grainy, black and white photos probably taken one years ago themselves, you know what I mean, like way back in the day. So in a sense, seeing a fish like this, at least this caliber of sturgeon, it's almost like you're seeing a fish that people kind of think doesn't exist anymore, Like it's extinct, you know what I mean, like to see one this size in the flesh. Um And in the story, Estrada says, other anglers over the years have made claims about catching fish this size. But and this is fairly vague, but I think I have a handle on it, Like, after careful examination of these photos, they were all discredited. So you know guys like I got a twelve footer here, and you know it's all about the angle or whatever. And then experts look at these and do the proportions and they're like, ah, that fish isn't as big as this guy's claiming. But Astrata and Peter's fish absolutely is. I mean, I'll post it in our in our stories this week like it was nuts. So the one thing that sticks out to me, though, is it says it took twenty five minutes to reel this fish in. Now, I am not in nearly as good of shape as Pete Peters, even though he's much much older than me. Right, but I've caught these fish on the Columbia. Have you ever fished for these fish before? The bucket list for me, but I've never All the ones we caught in three days were like one fifty pounds was probably the biggest, and they all kicked all of our asses for significantly longer than twenty five minutes. So I would love more detail on that, Like maybe it was so old and you figure it had to have been caught more than once. Being ad old, it was just like, get it over with I've been here, I've done this before. Um, so that was like the only discrepancy on like twenty five minutes. I fought one of these things for an hour and a half and thought I was gonna die. Still, incredible fish really speaks to what conservation measures like that can do. Um, it's just it's it's like it's frightening its head is So it's just massive, it is and it's true. And you know, we we pride ourselves on being nuanced enough to talk about catching release as not a monolith like catching release is important here in other places is not. I think this is a great example of a fishery where it is important. These are absolutely long lived fish that don't spawn every year. Catching and release really matters for fish species like this one. M My first story also is a record story, but for a very different kind of fish that for which catching release also matters, but maybe not in the same way. Also, I just want to say, I don't know which of my story is to run into, because you set me up for segways to both of them, but I'm just gonna go with this one. I hope you have another Guinness Record reference for me to set me up on the next My next story is terrible. So as I'm sure everybody who's listening is noticed, I know you have. Over the past couple of years, New York state fishing records have been falling like the clown in Billy Madison, hard fast and in bizarre, confusing and strangely entertaining ways. Hey kids, it's me. I've thought I was dead, but glad I fell over. I just broke my lining. Gonna hemrhage in my head. A couple of weeks ago, Royal Isaac of Albany landed a four pound seven ounce croppy, breaking a twenty year standing state record by more than half a pound. This is at least mildly noteworthy because new records usually eke past the previous mark by like an ouncer two, and in this case, the new record adds one six of the body weight to the previous. In affish as small as a croppy, that only amounts to a little more and a half pound, but for the size of the fish, it's a huge leap. Like to put this in context of another game fish we've been talking about a lot lately. If this had been a tarpin that bested the current record by the same percentage of body mass, the difference would have been forty seven pounds. So yeah, percentage wise, it's it's a big jump. Mr Isaac was fishing Sleepy Hollow Lake in Upstate New York. From what I could gather in some basic Internet research, Sleepy Hollow is best known as a bass fishery, but I think that says more about our collective obsession with bass than the actual quality of the fishery, at least if we're talking trophies. Seems like the lake is overrun with stunted large amouth as in, like fifty to seventy fish days are common, but they're almost fourteen more interesting to me anyway, Sleepy Hollow is a giant croppy factory. Besides the most recent record, one of the two fish that co held the previous date record was also caught out of that lake. Joe, before you get all excited and packed the car, go on a road trip, Uh, it's it's a private lake, so you can't go there. Okay, all right? Is this like the Sleepy Hollow like the Ichabod Crane deal the very same one? Yes? Okay, and and and far from me. Actually this is not like crazy far upstate. It's Hudson, Yeah yeah, yeah, okay uh and and only residents of the lake and their guests are permitted to fish there. Roy Isaac is not a resident of the lake, but he has a buddy who lets Isaac and his two sons fish office Pierre regularly, and it seems like these guys have a pretty solid pattern on the panfish. For four weeks in a oh Isaac and his kids have been getting into bigger and bigger crop eas He told Field and Stream quote, when I went out there four weeks ago, I caught a one pound seven ouncer and said wow, Next time a two pound ten ouncer, and then the following week a three pound ten ounce fish. Finally he landed the state record. We have already debated the issue of private lakes and records, so I'm not going to get into that again. And frankly, that's not the most interesting element of this story to me. Sleepy Hollow Lake has populations of both black and white croppy as well as hybrids. Black and white croppy are very difficult to distinguish just by looking at them, and while naturally occurring hybrids often have a black racing stripe running along their face and back. That's not always the case. Hybrids are usually sterile and as a result, often grow much larger than true black or white crop eas. New York State recognize his records for black and white croppy, but not hybrids. Isaac's fish would have bested either one of the records, but it had to fit into one of those categories. Now, a New York Department of Environmental Conservation Fisheries biologist examine the fish and determined it to be a white croppy because of the placement of the eye and the number of dorsal fins. But here's my question. You may remember last November we reported on Jordan's Tantarski, who had to wait ten months for genetic testing results for the State of New York would certify his record pumpkin seed. Why did the state require genetic testing for one panfish record but not this other one? Because somebody in Sleepy Hollow got money in grease the right pocket. It was like this, as a Sawbucks says, it's a white all right, maybe, but I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna I'm gonna get a little more nuanced. My guess is that because the stately recognized as black and white croppy for records, not hybrids. It was just easier to do a visual inspection and declare it one way or the other. Because if they had required the same genetic testing that they did for the pumpkin seed and the results came back that this was a hybrid, they would have had a problem, and like they would have been under pressure to create this whole new record category. Now, I will fully admit I'm not a croppy expert, and and maybe it's true the fact that Isaac's fish only had six dorsal spines means that it's definitely a white croppy. But my gut tells me there's some politics of play here. We need to get Wily Marshall on the phone. He'll sort this whole thing out. The croppy King, Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm not the croppy King. I did do a bunch of reading, though, and it smacks to me like a fish of that size besting the record by that much, especially if the hybrids grow that much bigger and quicker. I'm going to be real honest, man, I had no idea they were hybrid croppys out there, but I I croppy fish actually more than you would think in the colder months before it freezes, just because it's easy with the kids, Like you got a couple of hours to kill, I got a couple of ponds and a couple of trees, you know. Um and see it's also funny. I always thought white croppies were pretty just like easy to distinguish. I thought so too until I started reading this like doing research because later with barring versus the black croppie that are darker and speckled, It very much depends on the like the turbidity of the water they come out of, and the time of year you catch them. White croppy during the spawn gets super dark, look just like a black black croppie in in turbid water, black croppy go completely white it out. And if you look at the picture of this fish, yeah, it looks like it could go either way. Yeah, I'm certain because our our listeners are good like that, we're gonna hear from some some croppy people and and and and I encouraged that let us know because I mean why, I think it's fascinating look for better or where it's like, I know there's like crappy crazy people out there and they're like c be destinations and that's a huge scene. But for me, I just like that's just the thing to go down the street and catch a couple of here and there. So like I don't know that yeah there, yeah, I just don't know that much about crop eas um, but that that, yeah, I see what you mean. There was a lot of paperwork involved in finding out that that was a hybrid. Here's the transition for you if if you happen to know somebody that lives on Sleepy Hollow Lake but you don't have any fishing gear, You're just gonna want to take a little drive to a library a little further up in New York before you hit Sleepy Hollow. How is that? I love it? Right? So that was that was well done. So remember a while back I did that funny little piece about the flybrary right and how I thought it was a fine idea. But we both kind of agreed most of the time, the flies you find on it, we're kind of worthless. So we've gotten some feedback. To be fair, we haven't called it up, but some folks have called them be Like, no, man, they're great. Mayer. I've learned a ton from them, So in some cases it is working. And I've also had people writing and be like, yeah, I leave gobs of of of salmon skin on the flybrariy. Good for you, bro. Anyway, so it's a similar vibes here. I like this story a lot better. So in many ways, right, libraries were sort of being underutilized by by a lot of people. And it's been going on for a while because now we have so much technology, right, and so many answers to what we need to know right at our fingertips, and then nobody cares about checking out DVDs at the library anymore. Right, So but the ds, yeah, I know. I mean now, I was going to say, like, libraries are not known for their books, dude, it's books. But anyway, go ahead. That really says a lot about where we are in our culture, where we're like remember the days when we used to go to the library for DVDs? Yeah, but that's fine anyway, the COVID pandemic has actually sort of changed that and for like a lack of a our way to put it, um made libraries in some places like sort of useful and necessary again for a lot of people. And per this story, I found on Spectrum local news dot com, which covers upstate New York many libraries, including the Han Memorial Library in the city of Clayton. They were providing curbside book pick up right, creating all kinds of virtual events for both education and entertainment for kids, to give kids something to do, providing WiFi net access for people that didn't have it or needed to do job searches, and so on. So the library sort of adapted to the community's needs. Right. So, now as the pandemic starts to wane, the question is how do we keep people engaged and using the local library. So Han Memorial is trying to think outside the box and figured, hey, a libraries where you go to borrow stuff? Who says it has to be books? And Mannequin too on VHS? Right, uh so it was one of my favorite movies. So it just so I can't wait to hear from all the Mannequin two people Mannking two on the Run for the Wind. So it just so happened right that Clayton local Joe Krisman, who is a big time angler, had a garage full of gear he wasn't using, so he donated a whole bunch of tackle and combos to the library. So now you can go to this library and sign out fishing and safety gear just like you would a book. They've got life jackets. Right, there's a big gas landing net on the wall with a little tag on it. Smattering of rods and boxes of lords. Now, the town of Clayton sits right on the St. Lawrence River, so it's definitely a fish area. And I gotta say I love this, right, not even not even kidding, like I might reach out to my local library because you've seen the amount of ship in my garage, and I could definitely thin out the herd a little bit, right, So I commend this a thousand times over. But I wouldn't be me if I didn't have like some ship head comment to make. So of course, look looking at the rod and real selection there. Actually there's a couple of pretty nice newer Shakespeare combos, right, um, pretty good stuff, full of line and all. But then they're also what I would guess there's some remnants of Joe's garage, like the kind of stuff you'd see piled into that old garbage can at the flea market table, just like odd rods just like spewing out of a bucket or something. Um and there's just like you know, super crusty, perhaps missing a guide. There's like ten wraps of old bone and dry mono on the reel. And I laugh at this not because of the donation, because good on him, but because if I were the librarian working there and someone came in looking to rent out a rod and some tackle, I feel like I'd have to sort of profile like a little bit and like try engage how likely this person is to steal the tackle or how careful I think they're gonna be with it, and be like here you go, bud, Like you can have the Garcia spinner with the broken anti reverse loaded with the dak ron and paired with this beat up conventional party boat roun Right. So the promoter of fishing in me loves this. I love it, But the serious fisherman in me that has spent plenty of time with true rookies as have you, is like that ship is contu broken, like regard like or return in just a hopeless bird's nest situation or yeah, or just with zero of the spinners and frogs that they checked out along with the rod. Um. I mean, come on, like, even if even if you know what you're doing, it's just what happens in fishing gear. Pretty Much every piece of fishing gear I own I consider temporary because it will meet its end eventually one day will it will just not come home. Um, So regardless, the Harn Memorial Libraries make an effort to provide this gear for anyone that wants to try or maybe can't afford fishing gear. And that's I love it, super cool. The one hiccup that they didn't address, though, was licenses right, And I'm sure they haven't figured out. But the library is literally across the street from the water. But like if you're popping in and return all those goose bumps and want to chuck a spoon for trout across the way, like you still gotta have a license. So I don't know how they handle that. I assume they tell you that. Anyway, I'm gonna make it my goal to reduce the books in my local library by at least and just turn it into a tackle the trout, magnets and surf rods for everyone in the Joe Sphmelli Wing. Great story? Have we not? Have we not proven the fishing gear and and books can co exist, like have we not? Like there's one thing I've hope we've accomplished. It's that you don't have to remove the books for your fishing. Isn't it funny? I'm kidding and you know that. But it wouldn't be funny to think of something coming to me like I'd like to rent one of your rods and appropriate lores and do you have any books on fishing, like just like the whole package in one Saturday afternoon. You know what, I would be great, And I think I have a solution to the problem that you put. Oh, there we go do it. Here's here's what if I were running that library, which god knows I'm not, but if I were running that program, we hang Onu'm trying to stop you and say, I could see you running a library but being very disgruntled, like you want to give people the best literature, and they'd come in and just be like you got fifty shades of gray and you'd be like, no, no, don't want that. Stephen King. I would be the soup Nazi of the library note books for you. But to figure out the fishing rod problem, it's it's just it's easy, man. You have an age cap right, and and that also solves your license problem. I don't know, it's different different states, but usually you've got to get to a relatively ripe age before you need a license. Because I think it's twelve here. You just you just pair those up. Man. If you're if you're too old to fish without a license, you're too old to rent the library's fishing gear. Very safe, That's how I would deal with that. I think that we're gonna we're gonna move from a story about ways to make children happy to a story about making children cry. Giants Springs State Park is a little known attraction here in Montana. It's located just outside of Great Falls, and and honestly, it's not the kind of thing you would travel interstate to see, or even in trust state, but for locals in the area, it's a cool spot. Giant Springs is named for well, the giant spring that bubbles up out of the ground right next to the Missouri River. The Lewis and Clark Expedition noted this feature when they passed through an eighteen o five, and for good reason. It's one of the largest freshwater springs in the country, pumping out a hundred and fifty six million gallons of water each day. It's almost as much as Poland Springs. Very close, very close. Giant Springs was also the site of a world record controversy. The springs feed the Row River, which flows a whopping two d and one feet before hitting the Missouri. In A fifth grade class in Grade Falls launched a campaign to get the Guinness Book to recognize the Row as the shortest river in the world, a title that was at the time held by the D River in Oregon, which stretches four After two years, the campaign was successful, but the people of Lincoln City, Oregon, were not happy about their local river losing its Uh, it's it's it's a major award, of course they were, dude, that's like, that's that's ten T shirts they're not selling next year, you know what I mean? Get it. So the folks in Oregon re measured the D, deciding to end it at a new terminus, which they declared was the point of extreme high tide, and coming up with a new length of a hundred and twenty feet. The two western towns engaged in the short but heated public debate which prompted the folks at Gidness to just dissolve the title of World's shortest river entirely, because really, who gives a That was the last time that Giant Springs State Park appeared in the national news until a couple of weeks ago. And while fifth graders campaigning to get their local river inducted into the Book of World Records is cute, this news story is quite the opposite. In addition to the Roe River, Giant Springs provides water for one of Montana's largest and oldest trout hatcheries, which has been operating continuously since n The hatchery ponds are one of the primary attractions at Giant Springs Park. Generations of kids have visited the display pond, where they can see and feed giant rainbow trout, which is why the next thing I'm about to tell you is so sad and infuriating. On August, some angry in cell jumped the fence at the hatchery after sunset and stabbed many of the large fish in the display pond with a knife. Six of the fish had to be euthanized the next day, and numerous others survived but now have large open wounds. A local news story about this included an interview with Hannah Crane, a mom from Great Falls who regularly brings her six year old son to the park to play at the playground and see the fish. In the interview, she said, quote, one of the things he asks when he knows we're coming down this way is are we going to see the fish? I was trying to explain to him, there's not going to be as many. They're not going to be as big as we usually see them. They're not going to be as beautiful and swimming around as much. They're hurt. Now, Okay, I get that was emotional pandering on the part of the journalist who wrote the piece, but damn it, it worked. I was totally on the fence about this story until I read that quote and then thought about how shitty that conversation had to be. I mean, I guess kids have to learn that people can be unspeakably cruel somehow, but six years old seems I don't know, kind of young. I just I'm so glad I wasn't in that situation, and I sincerely hope the person who did this faces some kind of consequences. Unfortunately, that person is still large Montana fish. Wildlife in Parks is asking the public to keep an eye out for social media posts featuring suspiciously large trout and to come forward with any information they may have that will lead to the capture of the individual. I'm not I'm not like mourning. You know six a half dozen broodstock rainbows that were already It's a weird thing, and it's weird thing in that regard, yes, but the senselessness and downright means spiritedness to do regardless of trout. It doesn't make any different. No, it doesn't make any sense. It's a hatchery bond to the state park where kids go to get excited about giant fish. Who in God's name grabs a knife, hops offense and like I'm gonna get all stabby on these trout. I don't get it, and I hope they find the guy, and if they do, I think they should force him to stand by that pond for the next year and apologize to every kid who walks in to see those fish. That's what I think you ought to do. I mean, I hate to say it. It's either like a raging just psychopath weirdo, or like, could this be some like twelve monkey style crusade, the rib the rid. The world of hatchery fish, you know what I mean, Like somebody who just like hates hatcher. You know, they stocked him over his wild trout somewhere. It happens, it does, but like if that's a wild person doesn't know what they're doing, because these are the fish that are past their prime. They're not even the breeders anymore. Like they're the retired breeders. If you want to do something like go after of the fish, they're still making more fish. So I mentioned recently that I used to belong to a trout club, which is exactly what it sounds like, and it's a very Northeast thing to do. I feel so bad. If you can get me this child's name, I'll call our old hatchery and I will have some giant rainbow sent right to his front door. That's what I'm gonna do. You want a thirteen pound rainbow that can't swim, I'll get it for you by three o'clock. Dude, you know what I mean? Poor kids? Oh, isn't it it is? So? I think we need to laugh after that one. That was gut wrenching. But here's how we're gonna do that. So we're gonna go to Phil uh see what tickled his fancy this weekend. As soon's we're done with that. It's been a while. It's been a while since we've heard from our dear friend river Horse, but we got some sage lee wisdom coming at you that's gonna lighten the mood after all that giant breeders stock trout death. Miles Nulty, you're the winner. As a side note, I went to Lincoln City, Oregon almost every summer grow up, and I can tell you that they take a lot of pride in their little d River Guinness. If you're looking for another tiny d to measure, you can come on over to my place. Oh yeah, come in. Oh what's this for me? Oh? Thanks? Okay, it appears I have been fired from meat Eater. I guess that's that. Joe, Miles, you were a pleasure to work with. Um if you don't mind, I've actually got a written statement that I prepared several weeks ago in case something like this ever happened. Let's see here. The tides of history are never kind to those. Hey, Now, this is a river Horse coming to you from the deep south with some sage lee wisdom. I got a little story for you called parking lot of And let's keep in mind, as the old Western legend Wyatt Herb said, fast it's fine, but accuracy is everything. There's a ups truck parked in the fire lane, not much wind. It's about a sixty ft shot, and I've got an eight weight. This all started out innocently enough, but since winter it's been out of hand. It's even worse now. This fly shop is a beautifully shabby anomaly for Houston. It's it's smack dab in the middle of a posh neighborhood strip mall. By posh, I mean six figures equals poverty. As for all of us, we're lucky to have six bucks in our wallets. Some days the local crews all gathered around the front sidewalk of the shop with various fly rods, bombing outcast after cast, trey and jabs, jeers, hoots, and house as we each take a turn. Some days there are beers in the middle of the day Saturday night before closing. There might even be a cheap bottle of wine. Oh class, We take turns casting its cigarette butts, speed bumps, specks of dirt, rocks, parking signs, rose gardens, whatever, and yeah, sometimes the obligatory aired out fest for absolute distance. It was only a matter of time before the antie was upped. Anything moving is fair game BMW bins rolls. These are an automatic go to for whoever is on deck. A Volkswagen bug with the cheap plastic steering whell flower is a yes. A jacked Bubba truck is a hell yes. Any vehicle leaving the code store around the corner is the definitive, non negotiable yes for code in Texas shameful. Admittedly, there has been a history of wanton recklessness and hell raising getting me in over my head. There was a spot in a South African serf town that had a deadly slab of rock the size of a cement truck just barely submerged in the middle of the break. You had to decide mid sir Fried to either surf across that without coming undone, or simply bail out and paddled back up the point break with your tail between your legs. Cars would often park along the dunes and hawk to cheer you on, to goad you into an ass busting blood letting or a fist pumping victory. The sticks here different at the fly shop where we're all outcasting, but not much, not really, sweet Jesus. There it is what, at first glance appears to be a two pound turpin rolling on the outer sunlit fringes of the hazy concrete just past the jewelry store is the all time moment of reckoning, the ultimate price. It is a rent a cop on a segue, one hand on the handlebar, the other holding a towering waffle cone of frozen yogurt. There is a lengthy silence, wallets are pulled out and cash is flashed. We wonder aloud if that's pepper spray, a taser or a glock on his side belt. Another twenty ft of fly line gets stripped to the concrete landing by battered steel red wing boots. Step aside, Everyone hold my beer and watch this cast. I hope you enjoyed today's sage lewisdom. Here's to all things grassroots, handmade, homegrown, and our beautiful sense of fishing. Community. Get on out there. I don't know this for a fact, but i'd suspect that based on on demeanor and just the way he carries himself. River Horse is the anti goucher, right, and I feel like I've said similar things about him before, like you could be clinging for your life to like a pool float in the middle of the gulf in ten foot seas, you know, and like river Horse would just be like, hey, now, why don't you take your mind off your severe dehydration and cast this sweet, delicious pink deceiver against the hull of your overturn boat And it would just be like the greatest mahi bite of your life, and you just forget about everything else. I kind of think I kind of think confidence is gooch kryptonite. River Horse just oozes confidence. So yeah, but you can just cut in for one quick second. Though, Then, now that you said that, do you lack confidence? I feel like you're pretty confident when you're pretty confident. I can't explain my gucciness is inexplicable. I know, I know for a fact that I'm less gucci when I'm feeling super confident. For me, man, it's and it's not so much. It's not so much about my home waters, because sure, I feel like I've fished them so much that it's beyond googe. It's whenever I go somewhere else, That's that's when the veil of googe descends upon me. That's that's kind of how it goes. Yeah, but no, I don't. I don't think that I lack confidence. I appreciate you saying that. And if we're on the topic of people with just unfathomable depths of confidence in lieu of end of the line, this week, we're going to close out with a tackle hack from none other than our bud and self proclaimed Walleye phenomen Captain Ross Robertson. This is also from the dost boat Ohio sessions. Is it not? It is? And we we were corded plenty more with Ross that you'll hear later, but we're gonna we're gonna slip this one in here. This is a really solid tip. It is it is, and it's it's tips just like this that dare I say, have the ability to turn a gucher into a moon. I'm getting hot from inside the city like the floody gracing as with his knowledge today is vast knowledge of the walleye Latin name Ross. Okay, perfect, there you go, Captain Ross Robertson. Uh, dear old buddy, and we're together in Ohio right now, sitting face to face. Which is nice, is it's said, fair point, fair point. But you're gonna make us. You're gonna make all the Walleye freaks out there that come out of the woodwork as Walleye people a little bit better at what they do today because you're the man on Lake Erie. You are a technical fisherman, meticulous, precise. So make us better, make us a little bit more like Ross Robertson today. Joe. You know, I like giving you tips. And here's one that I think it's super simple that applies just about anybody. That guys just don't think about the elephant in the room when you were spool lines. A lot of guys, I know, we're like, man, I keep losing fish. You know why, Joe, most of us while ley guys do an open water fish. And I mean probably Joe's realing, but I mean aside from that factor. Aside from that, that's cool. Monofilment's got t stretching it, Okay, Braid's got like three to five. That's why I don't like using braid. One. I don't have to so on my open water stuff, my boards, things like that. I always use model. I want that shock absorber in there. The problem is it look too much. So what I do is is I have somebody pull that line out. Sometimes they use a fence because you know, maybe I don't have somebody around the cares about me today, Like Joe, He's like, no, I'm going to get ice cream, gonna help you stretch your line today. But you can literally just seriously hook it to a chain like fence. I've done it many days by mess off and pull that out. And you know a lot of times you see the curly cues in your line. Yeah, you pull that right out, pull that stretch out a little bit. You're still gonna have plenty of stretching there. But I like to do that in about the first fifty feet. Okay, And so that's the stuff that's in the water, and I'm gonna have better feel and I'm not I'm going to get a little bit better hook sets because now those fish that barely get on it, maybe my hook's not quite as sharp as it was when it first got you know, putting the water. Now, all of a sudden, I'm gonna have way better hook ups. So pre stretch your monofilment line a little bit. You can even do this with spinning stuff. This is an exclusive to trolling monos. You like to stretch, but if you think about it is a lot. And if you don't believe me, here's what you want to do, maybe we should do this for you. I want to see you cut your hands up, hook a hook on when you're spinning reels or whatever it is to a chain link fence, walk back fifty ft, wrap around your hand. Do the same thing with mono. On the other hand, the braid is gonna cut you in two that mono. You're gonna be like, all right, all right, are rare sound effects free? I mean, you know you're gonna be able to walk back seriously, like seriously, like five six seven ft. You're gonna pull it and you're gonna go right back, and it's gonna go right back like a bungee cort. But I was just saying, so the stretch is important to what you do. But fresh line is gonna have more stretch than you even wanted to have when it's fresh. You know, so many things we do are like, hey, it's it's like a baseball. It's perfect right before it's useless, right, like you got to break it in and and a lot of guys that put that real nice line on there and they get it out there like between Let's say you're using a board, You've got all that extra stuff in there, and you don't realize like those fish are it's gummy mouth, like they aren't getting the hooking. I know a lot of guys that's this is a simple tip. I hate even giving it because it's so it's like the elephant of the room. But that little simple fact gets me a lot more fish. And I don't have to wait through or four trips losing fish before that line is broken. So that's it for this week. Remember it's much smarter to practice your fly cast on rent A cops than hula hoops. My dad is more Gucci than your dad. Take a picture of that clear blue water because you can't take it back to your office. And sheboygan, dumb, dumb, and stretch that mono so you don't pull a hammy in an hour's long battle with the walleye and uh and while you're standing by the fence stretching out that mono, go ahead and send a bar nomination sale. But item, awkward photo, news story, or whatever else you want to bent at the meat eater dot com. Also keep using those degenerate Angler and Bent Podcasts hashtags on the Gram, and why don't you follow those hashtags while you're follow them, It'll bring you closer to your fellow degenerates. Whatever you do, do not use or follow the hashtag Gooch m