00:00:02 Speaker 1: So this is a special episode for the bear Gas podcast you are. In case you didn't know, there's a podcast out there that's called bear Grease and we do a documentary style podcast every other week and then in between weeks we do a bear render. So you might be confused when you see this and think it's a bear grish render, but it's not. This is a special episode of bear Grease proper. No, Mark No, That's the reason I targeted you. 00:00:32 Speaker 2: Thank you. 00:00:33 Speaker 1: I can see it in people's eyes when they think it's theres going on, that's not going title coming. That's a good marketing idea. This is really fun for me because I've got a good portion of the Meat Eater team here, and I think there's probably a lot of beggars people that would know who you guys were, but there's some portion of them that wouldn't. But from right to left, we've got Ryan o'call callahan. 00:01:23 Speaker 3: Good to see you, good seeing you. Yeah, yeah, you know it's like old like old cow, yeah right, you kind of said it. You kind of said it like uh yeah, like an Irish type of or a Scottish type of surname type of deal. 00:01:36 Speaker 4: But okay, oh see I always did think that it was all without the d cow. 00:01:42 Speaker 3: When I was going to college. During my short experience with college, uh huh, I had a bunch of friends who didn't have jobs and stuff like that, and I had a lot of worldly wisdom from outside of college. And so they're like old Cow, it's too much of their dad. 00:02:05 Speaker 5: Look at this. 00:02:10 Speaker 2: Something new, oh cow? 00:02:11 Speaker 1: Okay, Ryan Callahan and then Heather Deville a K. 00:02:15 Speaker 6: Moosey, Hi, glad to be here. 00:02:18 Speaker 1: Tell tell everybody where you're from. 00:02:20 Speaker 6: I live in Craig on Prince of Wales Island, Craig, Alaska. 00:02:24 Speaker 1: That is cool. 00:02:25 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:02:25 Speaker 1: Now, Heather, I've got to make claim. I think I was the first person for me to that reached out to you. Can can can that be disputed because I I yes, you were. I shared one of your your your your your backpack technique for deer because I have a deal that was taught to me by James Lawrence called he called it shock pouch in a deer, where you cut the legs out of the deer and tights legs together. And for a decade I'd search trying to find the source of that or if anybody that ever did it, and you were the first person that I saw that, and it was it was the way that you do it is different, but it's still like the same idea. I shared your deal and then you were like, hey, thanks for sharing. 00:03:14 Speaker 6: Because every time I share, we call it the Slingkett backpack. So it's a traditional backpack passed down through my culture. People tell me it's the clay. So that's why I went. When I posted it and shared it recently, I said, this is not the Clay. Set the record straight. 00:03:37 Speaker 1: No, I never took credit for that at all. But uh, man, if you if you haven't seen Heather on the meeting your main channel, she's doing a bunch of cool stuff with sea Otters. She's the she's the sea Otter girl. I've heard, yeah the older lady people. 00:03:52 Speaker 6: Are you for lady? 00:03:54 Speaker 5: Yes? 00:03:54 Speaker 6: Yeah, answer to that. 00:03:56 Speaker 5: Cool. 00:03:57 Speaker 1: Then we got old Brent Reeds. The only see Brent when I come to Montana anymore. I'm not sure what's happening in our relationship, but uh, that's why we've brought you here. 00:04:06 Speaker 4: I heard you don't have any good dogs and he won't have you. 00:04:10 Speaker 5: You didn't hear that from me, but you could have heard it from anybody. 00:04:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I don't have any coon dogs at all right now. I haven't had for two years, so he would be right now. I do have. I've squirrelled. 00:04:23 Speaker 5: He's got some up and comers. 00:04:25 Speaker 1: I do have a I do have showing a young plot ount. That's how many dogs right now? I've got five dogs right now? 00:04:32 Speaker 5: Dogs? 00:04:33 Speaker 2: Five dogs, four kids. 00:04:34 Speaker 4: How many mules now? 00:04:35 Speaker 2: Two mules, two meals, one wife and a good one thank goodness. Anything else in the on the property. 00:04:43 Speaker 1: Chickens, chickens, chickens. Got got a pretty good spread of chickens. 00:04:48 Speaker 2: So you have a lot of responsibility, you know. Does that ever keep you up at night? 00:04:53 Speaker 4: Oh? 00:04:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, heyst When I was a kid. When I was a kid, we had I had dogs, and when they would bark at night, some you know, imprinted memories on my life. Cal were my dad busting into my room in the middle of the night. Make your dogs shut up, you know, because it's keeping them up. So I walk outside and you know, do whatever I got to do to get this dog to shut up. Every single night, whether it was a decade or two where I didn't have dogs. When we were raising our kids, we just couldn't change diapers and have dogs, so we didn't have dogs when the kids were little. I slept better then than I think I do now because every single moment you're thinking, are the mules getting out? Is my dog? Like baying someone's cow right now? 00:05:40 Speaker 2: Stuff like that? 00:05:43 Speaker 1: It yeah, yeah, stressful, so but it's it's it's worth it. You learned to deal with the stress. So Brent, good to have you, brother. 00:05:50 Speaker 5: Thanks. 00:05:51 Speaker 1: Yep uh y'a honest would tell us the Latvian eagle been on our hearts heavy the last several months because of your hundred mile race. 00:06:00 Speaker 4: Hm. 00:06:00 Speaker 1: Hmmm, We're gonna come back to that. But everybody knows, Jannis have you ever? Have you been on Bargrease before? Never? Before? Well, I'm glad, wow that really. 00:06:11 Speaker 2: I don't think why don't you like him? 00:06:13 Speaker 1: I love Jannis. I feel everybody knows I love you. 00:06:16 Speaker 2: That's wild. 00:06:17 Speaker 1: When I'm around Yannis, I just follow him around and ask him what we're gonna do next. That's pretty much what I do, right Yannis, anywhere we go? You said that, and then Mark Kenyon, who Mark's been on here a couple of times. Yeah, but uh, Mark, Mark is our white tail. 00:06:34 Speaker 2: What's more surprising that you haven't been or that I have been? 00:06:40 Speaker 4: Now instead of me being like not been on once at all, you've been on twice. So there's the disparities it is. 00:06:47 Speaker 1: Uh, Well, Mark has been to my house and we podcast a couple of years ago when you hunted in my neck of the woods in parents house even yep, yep, you stayed at the Believer's house and Juju's house yup. So uh but Mark, Mark has wired to hunt, which is our white tail sector. Now Tony's not here, he couldn't be here. But Tony's your Tony's your buddy, Tony Peterson. 00:07:10 Speaker 7: Tony is my little buddy. He does some good stuff, does some very good stuff. 00:07:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, here's what we're gonna do. I kind of want to like, uh, I want to go around and I kind of want to tell what everybody does. Mark is writing a you're writing a book. Can can we tell people that Mark is deep into his second book? First book was That Wild Country And now you're you're deep in the second book that you just submitted to the publisher. And what's the bout wins it gonna come out? 00:07:48 Speaker 5: Uh? 00:07:49 Speaker 7: The book is about the current state and threats to fish and wildlife across America. I guess you could say the past president and future of fish and wildlife in America floored through the lens of a hunter and angler, so kind of hunter and angler take on what's going on with critters out there right now follows me in a bunch of hunting and fishing trips across the nation as I'm meeting with researchers and conservationists and hunters and anglers and business owners and all sorts of different people that have some kind of connection to fish and wildlife. And that book comes out probably late summer next year, twenty six. Right now, the working title is wild Lives that could be changed right now. 00:08:33 Speaker 2: That's what we're working with. 00:08:33 Speaker 1: Is does ever stretch you out that when people say, do you feel like you have to have like a super concise answer about what your book's about, like the like the like the secondary one liner? Yeah, what's your one liner? What's your book's about? 00:08:48 Speaker 7: The one liner has to change a little bit based on the audience, Like that, if it's someone who pays attention to like environmental and conservation kind of stuff, I would say, like it's an exploration of the biodiversity crisis from a hunter angler perspective. 00:09:03 Speaker 1: Okay, I like that. 00:09:04 Speaker 7: If it was like a little more of like a general audience, I might use the subtitle like the past President Future of Fish and Wildlife in America, keeping a little more high level, because the biodiversity crisis maybe isn't something that every person recognizes. 00:09:20 Speaker 2: But that's that's what I'm working with right now. 00:09:21 Speaker 1: Okay, I like it. 00:09:22 Speaker 2: Just come along, come along? 00:09:24 Speaker 5: Yeah? 00:09:24 Speaker 3: Do you get to just go do the fun stuff and then chat GPT just take. 00:09:28 Speaker 4: Care of the rest? 00:09:29 Speaker 7: I wish No, that chat GTP is not quite up to snuff, I'd say so. I actually think the fun stuff is the writing. I enjoy the process. It is sometimes like beating your head against like a brick wall. I'm sure you've been experiencing this too, but but it is also like the magic when stuff comes together, when you finally are able to I think writing is the the kind of the the final touches of a clarifying your thinking. 00:10:00 Speaker 2: By forcing yourself to write, you have to clarify. 00:10:02 Speaker 7: Your thinking on something, and so it forces you to really really ponder things, organize your thoughts, and really come to real conclusions about how you feel about the world or when you think about a situation, and so going through that process and then figuring out yourself and then figuring out how to put words to a feeling or an experience or a concept in such a way that anyone else could pick it up be like, oh, yes, that's like a magical thing when those pieces click together. 00:10:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really enjoy that. 00:10:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a it's a powerful exercise that if I mean, you know, not everybody writes, but it really is a powerfully clarifying exercise to really hone in what you're thinking. Mark is a copious reader, but cal does that when you see all the books that he reads. 00:10:50 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what do you think he's bulling through him? For sure? 00:10:52 Speaker 1: I mean do you are you? 00:10:54 Speaker 5: Are you? 00:10:56 Speaker 1: Well, you may read more books than him, and you just don't put it on the internet. But oh when you see him, are you like, man, I gotta read more, or man, I'm glad he does that, or dang, I would never do that, Like how do you? 00:11:08 Speaker 3: Oh, you know, I think we all go through different phases of life. There's a time where people would make fun of me because in every room of my little ramshackle apartments or houses that I lived in, I'd have two or three open books, ok. And I was just constantly a little add you know, picking up things and putting them down. And I haven't read covered cover of book in at least a year right now? Yeah, yeah, which is is just would be highly abnormal from a decade ago. Yeah, but this decade's a lot different than the previous one. 00:11:46 Speaker 5: I get it. 00:11:47 Speaker 1: I get it. 00:11:48 Speaker 2: What do you what? 00:11:48 Speaker 1: What happens when you see Mark's giant bookstacks of all the books he read like this month? 00:11:53 Speaker 4: I'm impressed? 00:11:55 Speaker 1: Does it make you want to read? 00:11:56 Speaker 4: Or yes? 00:11:57 Speaker 1: It does? 00:11:57 Speaker 4: Yeah? 00:11:58 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. 00:11:59 Speaker 2: This poor guy had listening to me talk about books the entire time. 00:12:01 Speaker 5: I ran with him. 00:12:02 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right to honest is Miles Rice. 00:12:06 Speaker 4: I got to make one. 00:12:06 Speaker 7: Other comment about how little you read, Clay, Oh okay, yeah, because h So, I finished writing the first official manuscript of my book this dude June first. 00:12:17 Speaker 2: I send it to the publisher and the editor on a Friday. 00:12:20 Speaker 1: And I think I know where this is going. 00:12:23 Speaker 7: It was such an amazing feeling to ship it out, like it's like giving birth to a baby. I mean I don't know what that's actually like, but I'm assuming it's something like that. 00:12:31 Speaker 2: It's a huge like relief. 00:12:32 Speaker 7: This thing's you know, first phase out there. And I immediately like, all right, I need to go for a run and like just kind of burn off the energy, feel good, kind of celebrate. 00:12:43 Speaker 2: So I go for a. 00:12:44 Speaker 7: Run and Clay text me as I'm running and I happen to feel buzz or whatever, look at the phone as I'm on my run, just like full of joy. And he's like, hey, man, will you send me the first chapter of your book? I'd love to read it? And I'm like, in such a great mo I'm like, heck, yeah, buddy, better than that, I'll send the entire book. 00:13:05 Speaker 1: Clay's my best friend. 00:13:06 Speaker 2: Like, I'll send you the first chapter, but here's the whole man, you read whatever you want, if you have. 00:13:09 Speaker 7: Any feedback or thoughts, would love to hear it. He said, great, So I send it within like minutes. So that was six months. 00:13:17 Speaker 2: Ago or whatever. No, not six months, a few months ago, Okay. Me and Clay see each other two days ago. I'm like, Clay, what do you think, Like, I haven't got to read a bit of it. 00:13:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt really bad when I saw Mark because in the in the moment, I was very like, if I had this right this second, I would read it. And then he sent it and then it just like quickly just got lost. So I look forward to reading your book. Mark. 00:13:49 Speaker 4: Now. 00:13:49 Speaker 6: I I'm first time bothman, first time meeting y'all in person, and one of the first things I say to him is I don't read. And he goes, you don't read. 00:14:01 Speaker 3: Like that that is the best impression of Mark ever. 00:14:06 Speaker 1: You don't read. 00:14:07 Speaker 6: And I'm like, no, never, And now this is all I'm tracking all day. 00:14:12 Speaker 1: This is this is our author here. 00:14:13 Speaker 6: Don't feel bad our author. 00:14:15 Speaker 3: Yes, but I think you kind of shot yourself in the foot, which which was a chapter is like manageable. He was asking for just a taste. Yeah, that was the time for just a taste, and you were like, well, here's the whole pie. 00:14:28 Speaker 7: Got intimidated your way. Yeah, you'll like it better when you see the real You know. 00:14:34 Speaker 1: What I'm looking forward to is the first line. Yeah, the first sentence? 00:14:39 Speaker 2: What is the first sentence? 00:14:40 Speaker 6: A quote? 00:14:41 Speaker 1: Just no, not the quote just I'm I'm kind of looking at books and seeing what the first sentences because ye. 00:14:51 Speaker 4: About this and our entire mediator career. 00:14:54 Speaker 5: It's your first that's the barometer for how the whole thing is going. 00:14:56 Speaker 1: To Well, there's just a lot of ways to do it. I mean like some authors are just like you can see the first sentence isn't this sacred thing. It's just like, let's let's talk about this. Some authors the first sentence is a sacred sentence and it just has to have like a lot which. 00:15:14 Speaker 4: Used to always share about the man. 00:15:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, so one of the ones that always sticks in my mind is the man in black fled across the desert and the gun slinger followed. 00:15:26 Speaker 2: That Stephen Kings the Dark Tower exactly, Yeah, that's nice. 00:15:31 Speaker 3: The man in black fled across the desert and the gun slinger followed. And you know you're like, oh. 00:15:41 Speaker 5: And it was Johnny cash. 00:15:44 Speaker 1: And in black. Well, so, uh so, Jannis just ran one hundred miles. How do you feel you're well, let me just say Joannis ran that less than a week ago on Saturday. When I when I saw Jannis for the first time this week, he informed me that he was still in a little bit of a brain fog because I saw you on Tuesday you ran it on on Friday, so you know, four days before so and uh. 00:16:10 Speaker 3: There should be some clarifying though. Is like one hundred miles is a long way for sure, but there's a lot of routes to go. One hundred miles is through the crazy mountains in Montana and there's a big elevation changes in there is one thing. 00:16:28 Speaker 1: But it's one of the toughest hundred miles in the country. 00:16:31 Speaker 3: It sounds like the footing the whole way was just very unpleasant, isn't isn't a place that you would go to just have an enjoyable run. 00:16:40 Speaker 2: Might right that there was twenty three thousand feet of game. 00:16:43 Speaker 4: Yeah that is not quite Everest, but close. 00:16:48 Speaker 6: Yeah? 00:16:50 Speaker 1: Man, you know yeah, how do you feel? You're honest? 00:16:53 Speaker 4: I actually feel pretty good. Yeah, all in all, I've got some sore toes. Brant called me last night before I went to had to check in on my little toes. 00:17:03 Speaker 1: We'll be talking about that. 00:17:04 Speaker 6: Yeah, tell us what you had to do. 00:17:06 Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm gonna lose some toenails over the whole thing, But overall, I feel pretty good. Proud of the effort. Obviously, you know. 00:17:17 Speaker 1: You spent I mean really it's you don't really prepare for a race like this in months. It's more like years for sure. 00:17:25 Speaker 4: Yeah, now I've been built. I think about five or six years ago I ran my first mountain sort of trail run race. Actually that's not true. I ran one back in Vail long time ago, but once since I moved to Montana. We have a great community race here in Bozeman called the Bridger Ridge Run, and it basically runs from Fairy Lake up in the bridges, down the ridge the spine of the bridges all the way down to the m the College m which is a very popular trailhead. It's like nineteen ish miles maybe twenty something in there. And once I did that, I just our buddy Rick Smith used to do this race called the Rut, and so I was like, oh, I can do the Rut. So I did thirty k which is about or fifty k, and that was thirty one miles. Then once I did that distance, I thought, oh, maybe I could do fifty miles. So I did a fifty mileer and then I made the leap to one hundred. I think I should have went to like a sixty five, and then the one hundred at least I had that thought when I was at sixty five. 00:18:29 Speaker 1: It's what's so wild about somebody running one hundred mile race? Is it? It feels impossible? I mean, and I run a little bit, Like I don't promote it, but I do. I run a little bit, and so I know what it's like to run ten miles and to think of running one hundred miles. This seems wild. Now, Mark, you're a runner, can you envision what it would take to run one hundred miles? Or is it like otherworldly? 00:18:57 Speaker 2: I've read, Man, I'm such a character of myself. 00:19:00 Speaker 7: But I've read a lot about it, and you know, I've ran a pretty what I thought was a pretty hard like Mountain Trail race, just a thirty k, but nothing on the scale of him. Yes, so I can imagine a bunch of the things, but I'm sure that my imagination is nowhere near. 00:19:16 Speaker 2: The actual reality. But it appeals to me like it does feel like a thing like someday. Yeah, probably, I'd like to see if I could do it. Yeah. 00:19:26 Speaker 1: Well, I'm very honest told me, and I probably had heard this before, but these guys are running two hundred and fifty mile races. Yeah, how is that humanly possible? 00:19:37 Speaker 5: Is that NonStop? 00:19:39 Speaker 4: Well no, I mean some people do it without sleep, and well most of the racers will stop and sleep for an extended period like many hours. Yeah. 00:19:50 Speaker 7: So there's a writer that I really like, a writer and podcast or talks about this ultra running stuff and he always says that the cool thing and kind of the funny thing about every one of these races. You go to the starting line and you look at the other people around at one hundred mile race and they're all different shapes and sizes and they have all sorts of different backgrounds and different styles, but every single one of them is the weirdest person at their office or in their family, right, Like, that's he's that crazy dude that goes one hundred miles. 00:20:19 Speaker 2: I think that's pretty cool. 00:20:22 Speaker 4: About the crazy dude around here. 00:20:25 Speaker 7: Everyone's like, oh, he's the dude that runs a hundred miles, Like, you're not crazy for other reasons. 00:20:28 Speaker 2: I'm saying they're weird because they're willing to do. 00:20:31 Speaker 1: Be honest, is the only guy at this office with bleach blonde hair that is true which you did for the race? That's a little crazy. 00:20:38 Speaker 3: And painted toes, you know, yeah, I all that blue toes now. 00:20:42 Speaker 4: I think if you're into sort of pushing the boundaries a little bit of what you think you might be able to do or handle, this is a thing to go do and check out. Because uh yeah, even though as much as I knew what a long day was going to be and how hard it was going to be, I had no idea what was going to actually come and hit me. And it was fun and scary and great and real shitty all at the same time, you know, because it's hard to remember in the moment when you're there and you're like, I hate running and I should probably just stop this right now. It's it's hard to go oh right now, this is what you paid for. Like all the training, the first seventy miles was just like the entry ticket to get to that moment, to be like, oh, let's see what you're maine out of. Can you do the thing called just one foot in front of the other, that's all you got? Duke outs, one foot in front of the other. Well, that gets really hard. 00:21:43 Speaker 5: How many steps? 00:21:45 Speaker 4: When my watch quit it died, it ran out of battery. At about thirty hours. I was at ninety miles. I was at like one hundred and ten thousand steps. 00:21:54 Speaker 2: WHOA, you are an inspiration. I then like a serious I think, do. 00:22:03 Speaker 3: You how would how would your brain have functioned if you wouldn't have had pacers? 00:22:11 Speaker 4: Oh? How critical was was that? I guess like mission critical? Yeah, I for the first one. I don't know if I would have finished without the pacers, especially my one good buddy, Stephen Brucker, because everybody else, even though they're great people, positive people like Mark right here right, they didn't have the experience of dealing with somebody that's just like in the dumps and you know, low on energy, low on fuel, and then how to manage that situation? 00:22:40 Speaker 1: Or what did he do? 00:22:42 Speaker 4: Huh? What did Mark do? Or what did Steven do? 00:22:44 Speaker 3: Well? 00:22:44 Speaker 1: I mean this guy that you said, well, just like. 00:22:47 Speaker 4: Staying on top of the hydration and the fueling and and and and just the constant pushing and pulling and NonStop positive positive even has. 00:22:59 Speaker 7: Ran several hundred himself. It was like speaking to Ya's some personal experience, yeah. 00:23:04 Speaker 4: But constantly being like, hey man, we're moving, You're looking great, Let's keep going. You know, It's never like he's not like, do you look like shit? That's what I tried with. That's definitely you're like a ghost of yourself right now. 00:23:21 Speaker 1: Wow. Well, you know when I hear about people run one hundred miles and then even running two hundred and fifty miles, it puts in perspectives some of these ancient human migrations that just seem implausible. I mean, for instance, and we don't have the details of all this stuff. I mean it's like prehistory. But like you know, the people that went down into South America from presumably coming through Alaska on foot without modern technologies, clacking rocks together to make fire, and like you just think that is an impossible journey, It couldn't be done. And then but they did it. I mean there were people down there that were connected to the people up here, you know, and you think maybe it wasn't that big of a deal, and not that they did it all at once, but just like this, this the mobility of a human is pretty durn unique and and you see it in these today. What are extremes of guys like you, honest that are run one hundred miles? 00:24:21 Speaker 3: Do you think like the amount of calories that Yannis probably put down just prior to like twenty four hours ahead of time, then through the race, and then let's say twenty four hours after, Like what would be the caloric naturally found food caloric equivalent if you had to source it yourself at any like right, because there's a serious cost associated with that part too, burning calories to get those calories. 00:24:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, so. 00:24:55 Speaker 1: Probably cracking open bones for bone marrow and eating knees and yeah. 00:25:02 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know where you'd get the high sugar content stuff because that's what I feel like it is, like all the sugar. Well, when you're drinking these carb drink mixes, it's basically sugar. So you're like a humming bird, you know, you're just eating drinking sugar water, you know, the. 00:25:18 Speaker 1: Whole one straight to energy. 00:25:19 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, uh so I don't know what you do that if you had to just gather that in the woods. 00:25:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, berries well uh and again in way of introduction, Mark is a white tail hunter, that's his main thing. Fly fisherman too, You're honest, I would say, is an elk hunter, and uh, in the last five or six years a houndsman. But all these things that you're doing kind of translate in your mind to being able to do what you need to do in the mountains. That's right here. You talk about when you talk about fitnesses just having longevity, So when you're seventy being able to climb a mountain, that's right. 00:25:58 Speaker 4: Yep, yeah, I want to hunt at seventy. 00:26:11 Speaker 1: All right, Okay, Brent Reeves and and Heather, you guys trouble, troubled, trouble. I had nothing to do with this. Uh, tell me about what happened last night with Brent and Cal. 00:26:24 Speaker 6: Go ahead, Heather, Okay, well, get done with dinner. And I said, hey, hey, Brent, I needed to call Steve and tell him you love him. And that's your medication worn off. I'm not doing that. I want to keep my job. So we settled on Cal. 00:26:43 Speaker 1: You were you were the second string, you know, like recipient of this joke. 00:26:49 Speaker 3: Now there is some discount, Steve. 00:26:51 Speaker 4: I like to say. 00:26:52 Speaker 5: There's some kind of some kind of trend on social media where friends call each a mint. Male friends called their friends at night and just before. 00:27:02 Speaker 6: The bedtime tell them good night, I love. 00:27:06 Speaker 5: You, something that probably doesn't happen a lot amongst. 00:27:10 Speaker 1: And so you filmed. 00:27:13 Speaker 6: It was either you or him going to make the call. But we thought, you know what, if anyone calls somebody and says I love you, good night, sweet dreams, and it's going to be the most believable it would be Brent. 00:27:25 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, it was pure peer pressure. 00:27:28 Speaker 4: We could rob. 00:27:29 Speaker 5: She could have made me rob a lickor storeline. 00:27:31 Speaker 6: And I kept saying, don't forget I love you. 00:27:35 Speaker 1: So we all we all go into the the lobby of this hotel. Heather goes and asks the hotel people to turn the music off. Oh wow, because they're just just like ambient music playing, which I thought was a pretty high level move. And then so Brent calls Cal. We I didn't think you'd pick up Cal. I just I just kind of thought, I bet Cal's not even gonna pick up. 00:27:58 Speaker 3: What time at night was this nine o'clock? 00:28:00 Speaker 6: And I later asked Deep, if we would have called you, would you have answered, And he said nope, I told you so. 00:28:07 Speaker 5: Yeah. So we call Cal and Cal and he's like, hey, Brent, Hey Cal, So I always call him Ryan, right, that's what he's Mama calls him. That's what I'm gona call him. I said, hey, Ryan, what are you doing? He said, And the most Ryan Callahan answer. Ever, he said, well, I just got through eating some white tail backstrap and I'm laying down. What are you doing? And the conversation just kind of went off course from there and I can see Cal's face, Well he's talking to me like Brent's lost his mind. 00:28:39 Speaker 6: Oh, he said, I just wanted to see if you had a good day to day and uh and call you until you good night and was really nice. 00:28:52 Speaker 1: It was like super nice. 00:28:54 Speaker 3: Well I thought Brent may have been having a moment, you know, And I was like, okay, you know, mental health is a big thing. I I want to let you know I'm here for you. Yeah, I don't want to push the direction someplace that shouldn't go, Like you tell me, how was your day? 00:29:14 Speaker 1: And emotionally it was great? 00:29:16 Speaker 2: It was great. 00:29:17 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:29:17 Speaker 1: Cal was just like he just took it. 00:29:20 Speaker 2: At what point did you like get kind of speaker? Were you a little bit like what's going on here? 00:29:27 Speaker 3: Well, like like I said this morning, right, Like, I have several friends all across the country there are veterans, and they deal with some some tough mental health stuff and I always make sure that when when this comes up on occasion, that they know that they can call me and and I make sure that my numbers in their phone, because that's a huge, huge part of you know that this like very tragic suicide rate amongst veterans and PTSD is when they often do reach out and call people when they're in these crisis moments. And often the the difference of creating or committing to an act that you can't go back from, uh, like suicide is whether or not somebody picks up a phone. 00:30:24 Speaker 1: So wow, Cal took it to like, I mean serious place quick, but it's true. 00:30:29 Speaker 5: It is. 00:30:29 Speaker 3: It is so yeah, I mean that's what I was like, Oh, this is a little odd. So I try to, like a lot of my buddies, nine o'clock at night, I'm sitting there with girlfriend on the couch. I can let that go until the next day, right, But uh, you never called me at nine o'clock at night. 00:30:50 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 00:30:52 Speaker 5: Yep, that's one thing that you get. I figured he'd pick up if he saw it was me on there, and he did. Yeah. Yeah. 00:31:00 Speaker 1: And then and then so Brent ends it with a right. 00:31:05 Speaker 5: Good night buddy, was a good night, Cal, and he's like good night, and I'm like, I love you. Buddy goes, I love you too. 00:31:15 Speaker 1: And I still don't get the joke. Well, yeah, and just conta cal if you see me, call it an answer, please, Okay, I won't be filming. It was good. It was a good call. 00:31:37 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, we didn't know about this when we did in. 00:31:40 Speaker 1: The almost simultaneously, Steve Vanella it was actually it was a major setup and I didn't even know it. I don't think they really meant it to be a complete setup. Steve Varnell doesn't call me that often. I mean I consider him a good friend, that a guy I love. He doesn't call me that often. I don't know if he calls you all much. Steve Vernella calls me in the middle of our meeting yesterday and he knows I'm in a meeting, and so I'm like, well, this must be important. I like scramble around like bump people and get out in the hall and I'm like hell, And He's like, Clay, Man, this this physicist that you interviewed on this water witching episode. I was disappointed in him, man, I mean, the guy like he should have read a little more about it. But he did say one thing. And Steve just starts talking and I mean I talked to him for twenty five I listened to him for twenty five minutes talk about the water Begger's water Witching episode. And He's just going on and on and he you know, I kind of get fired up, you know. I mean like he's speaking my language. You know, I'm excited, and I'm like, I start talking and I feel like I'm talking to, you know, a confidant here. You know, I can really say what I think. And so I'm talking about holding the sticks water Witch and we did this whole episode on Waterwitch and and what makes the sticks move? And so I'm describing passionately an even more detailed version of what I said on the podcast. All the while, Randall, doctor Randall the Random All himself is filming Steve Vanella with his phone sat on the table and Steve just laughing, like silently laughing, like throwing his head back, laughing at me on the line, just like pouring out my heart. 00:33:33 Speaker 5: They I mean, dude, yeah, are they going to use that social It's already been sent to meetiater social media person. 00:33:44 Speaker 1: So uh So, anyway, I was punked as well, Cayley. 00:33:48 Speaker 3: Yeah, I might for folks who ever get in this situation when Steve calls and he's going off on his thing, right, if you interject and you stop him, he clicks into reality again of the fact that there's somebody else on the other end. And more often than not, and you guys got to listen for this. He'll be like, I'll let do you say your thing, but I just got to say one more thing. Let me say this one last thing. So okay, So it didn't end with Cal last night. 00:34:20 Speaker 6: Though, We're gonna have trust issues now. 00:34:22 Speaker 8: Yeah. 00:34:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody calls, you gonna be like, yeah, so we had so much fun with Cal that we Brent immediately calls, what was your experience? Like, here you honest with this. 00:34:36 Speaker 4: Yeah. I was also in bed, had just finished my second ice cream bar of the evening that you earned, and I was probably scrolling through some moultry picks on my laptop and Brent Reeves's number pops up. 00:34:51 Speaker 6: I answered, He goes, I was just those little toes. 00:34:57 Speaker 4: I all your toes. He was worried about your toes, And I'm like, that's kind of weird, but funny you say that I had to do some like little surgery today. So I tell him about doing. 00:35:11 Speaker 1: He was immediately skeptical. He was like, whatever, what do you need? 00:35:14 Speaker 5: Brent? I got that like, no, man, I was called check on your feet. 00:35:18 Speaker 4: You're right. I kind of forgot about that where I was like, Okay, Brent, ha like that's funny. What do you need? 00:35:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, you sniffed it, stuck with it. 00:35:27 Speaker 4: And that's when I kind of went. 00:35:29 Speaker 2: Back towards like I'm like, you got to commit, man, what's going on with Brent? 00:35:36 Speaker 4: Yeah, he needs somebody. And he called me, I'm gonna. 00:35:39 Speaker 3: Have to be for what happened at group dinner. 00:35:45 Speaker 4: Yeah no, because my first thought was brent'son to me. Brent's baked Softie's like big teddy bear, you know, and he's got a lot of you know, passion, emotion, probably empathy, sympathy for people. And and I thought I've seen Brent drink like a beer or two, but maybe last night he had three or four. 00:36:07 Speaker 8: And you know what happened, and he just needs to call his buddies and just tell me loves. 00:36:18 Speaker 3: Better better at nine pm than four am. 00:36:22 Speaker 6: Then wait then he says I love you and and you go bye yeah, and then we're like, you don't love you? 00:36:35 Speaker 1: Cal Cals was love you. They're both both unique experiences. But you know what, they were trying to get me to do it, and I was just like, I couldn't do I could not pull it off. Brent used to be an undercover agent. Yeah, you know, I. 00:36:51 Speaker 4: Thought, actually, then you should have done a better job. 00:36:54 Speaker 6: We talk, do we know the story about what you first thought of him? 00:36:59 Speaker 4: Oh? 00:37:00 Speaker 1: Talk about it all? 00:37:01 Speaker 6: Okay, that he was so nice and had all that. 00:37:04 Speaker 1: I thought he was coloration of what you'd want. 00:37:07 Speaker 6: And a friend and that made you suspicious. 00:37:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a good person. Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm still not fully convinced that's not a long term plan. 00:37:17 Speaker 5: A long come and for the long game a long time fifteen years now, m hm. 00:37:24 Speaker 1: So that that was pretty exciting. And it was all Heather, Heather, Heather. 00:37:29 Speaker 4: It was her enough after Cal and myself, no one else, I mean, that was it. 00:37:36 Speaker 6: It just was Yeah, who else would we were there? 00:37:39 Speaker 4: Now? 00:37:40 Speaker 1: I think it gets a little less funny probably every time you do it, Like in the moment, the first one was just hysterical. Duke Duke from First Light was there and he was giggling like a school girl. 00:37:52 Speaker 6: He's laughing, so loud. Yeah, we might hear him say I love you too, which was we were a little crushed about that, were like, shut up. 00:38:02 Speaker 3: But when you sent the video that you filmed, Sam was like, you couldn't hear this in the background. I'm like, half the time I can't hear you on the other end of the couch. 00:38:21 Speaker 1: No, it's it's yeah. It was great, It was great. It was fun. It was fun. Heather, Yes, tell me about this tattoo on your hand. Can you show it to the cameras? 00:38:30 Speaker 6: Yes, they float like this. This is uh wooden hallibut hook. It's in my traditional language. It's called nah spelled na x w if you want to spell it in English. And this is a hook that it has a sea monster design and it's the only hook we've retired. My dad and I fish with these, and it fished for like thirty years. We finally retired it. 00:38:58 Speaker 4: Because it one hook. 00:38:59 Speaker 6: It always caught the fish and they're sett in pairs to compete against each other, and it would always catch. So we retired it to give the other ones a chance and. 00:39:08 Speaker 4: Those thirty years. Because it looks like it's lashed together right like do you don't do you do you find a y shaped piece of wood to make it out of. 00:39:16 Speaker 6: Pieces of wood. We're actually gonna film in my upcoming show next week episode on using them. But they're made of two different types of wood. So the part that has the design as you would and then this part that has the barb was yellow cedar. 00:39:34 Speaker 1: Is that on purpose or is that just that specific. 00:39:37 Speaker 6: One was like densities of wood make it float appropriately when you set them. 00:39:42 Speaker 1: And then the place that wants to go to the bottom. 00:39:47 Speaker 6: And then this, you know, we have you know, cordage there that needs to be placed in the right spot. So this yellow seedar part floats level to the ocean floor, so not like this or this just level, so that placement's important. Traditionally the materials used would be spruce root, you know, to fasten the two pieces together, and a bare bone barb and cedar bark line the float at the surface traditionally with an inflated dried seal stomach. And then there's a tattletale bowie and typically that's a cormorant, you know, black bird, and when you get one it tips up, so you'd set them, go to the beach and watch and tips up and you go check your hooks and the halbit come up real easy, you know, hand line them. And if you've caught halbt on a pole, it feels like you're pulling up a mattress. But with these it you know, my niece is ten, she pulled up a two hundred and fifteen pounder, just real easy. Wo hand line it up. 00:40:53 Speaker 1: And why is it different? 00:40:58 Speaker 6: I don't know. It's the technology, you know, it's just I fling get traditional method of fishing, and just the way that the hooks are created and fished and the halvet just stay calm wow. 00:41:13 Speaker 3: But then are you spearing them on the surface or gaffing them or balk them? There's got to come up. 00:41:20 Speaker 6: Yeah, when they come up, you want to hit a halbit right on the nostrils, right when its head comes up out of the water before it can get mad. So if you hit them really hard right on the nose. 00:41:32 Speaker 4: With the bat of some sort like a back you know. 00:41:35 Speaker 6: Gaff hook or club, they don't flop around like that. And I see people shoot them and harpoon them. It's not necessary. You can get a big three hundred pounder, hit it on the nose the right spot and it just peace fully comes up over that. 00:41:52 Speaker 3: I have come to the conclusion that harpooning them is not necessary at all, but it is so much fun. 00:42:00 Speaker 4: I would rather do that. 00:42:02 Speaker 3: It's just so much fun. 00:42:03 Speaker 6: Then if it wakes up, sometimes you splash water on the deck and a wake up. But if you hit a halbit on its belly, you know, if it's dark side down belly up to the white side, you hit it on its belly and you pet it going towards its tail. It mimics that feeling of them like swimming and the their belly on the bottom of the ocean, and they lay it right back down. 00:42:27 Speaker 3: WHOA, that's cool. 00:42:29 Speaker 6: I hit them on the stomach and go like this. Then they go back to that's interesting. 00:42:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you want to go eat a fifty pounder or two and fifty pounder the. 00:42:41 Speaker 6: Yeah, the medium smaller ones. But so with this to prevent over fishing, you know, you only set them ount of hooks the fish you want to catch, because you can't release fish off of here. So typically would you release a big albit off like a skate or long line, but you you have to keep that fish you catch, So you catch a really big one itok, like two hundred three pounds and fifty or more pounds. You know, you might just want one fish, so to ensure you don't over harvest or only take what you need, you're just gonna set a couple hooks. 00:43:18 Speaker 1: So I want to go back to what you said in case anybody missed it. Missed it. I've heard you say it before. But you're you're setting. You set two at a time, so they compete. 00:43:28 Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's like a friendly competition. Each one has eyes so you can see what it's catching. You lower them and in our traditional language, you like give them encouraging words and they you pick two out and they're different designs, so we're like, oh, we're going to compete sea monster against ego or whatever the other one is. And then sometimes both catch, sometimes none, sometimes one, and it's sort of just like a wave of you know, having fun and encouraging bring good energy into the things you do and the food that you harvest. And then it's a myth. You know, some people say that you can adjust that width to catch a smaller or larger fish. That's a myth. A halbit, cheek or slip is about the same size, whether it's a twenty pounder or a three hundred pounder. And we've caught all different. 00:44:29 Speaker 1: All different sizes. So you retired this one because it was so good and give a chance. 00:44:37 Speaker 6: Always caught hundreds of fish. And it has teeth marks, you know. I I should have brought it to show you. But right here, it's got a bunch of teeth marks. It's like old and gray the wood. 00:44:47 Speaker 1: So where did that one? Did your dad make that one? 00:44:49 Speaker 6: He makes all of them. 00:44:51 Speaker 1: So but that specific one that you've retired. 00:44:53 Speaker 6: What gave it to me? I mean that's this is a sea monster. But yeah, he gave it to me. It's at my house. Wow, that's pretty incredible. 00:45:00 Speaker 5: I want you to get too new ones and name one brand and one clay. We could see which one. 00:45:05 Speaker 6: Catches the most in my episode. You know, have a film and you can pick your design. Really yeah, we'll call you up. We'll have you choose. You compete against each other. 00:45:16 Speaker 4: Okay, okay, is the hook baited? 00:45:19 Speaker 6: Yeah? So you wrap? So take a octopus tentacle and you shave off a thin layer, you know, the part that has the suckers, because if you put a whole octopus denticle on here, it'd be so heavy it wouldn't float appropriately. So you just shave off that layer to make it look like a lot of bait. You wrap it so it looks like a lot and hol it love octopus. You bait this part and wrap it around. The barb is exposed, you wrap it around. Then you do it well a piece of nylon. It twine a couple half itches, wrap it over the tentacle, and then secure it here. When halib it goes to eat, you know they can't see very well because they have eyes on top of their head. They can smell really well in gears. So when you set them, the sinkers are these rocks with the groove carved in them, and you kind of knock wake them up. 00:46:21 Speaker 5: Really. 00:46:22 Speaker 6: You set your hooks and then you like knock on the ground with the pull the line obviously up here and you could feel that rock like knocking. 00:46:30 Speaker 1: You feel like that's calling. 00:46:31 Speaker 6: Them had the fight When you do that, Oh. 00:46:35 Speaker 1: You could feel it just any any any disturbance down there there picking up on it when. 00:46:40 Speaker 6: They're if they're there, they're gonna bite. 00:46:43 Speaker 1: But you know, halib It's my favorite fish you ever see them cook it. 00:46:48 Speaker 6: No, when they eat, when halliba open their mouth marks had my halibit it was good, it was good. 00:46:54 Speaker 2: You did well. 00:46:55 Speaker 6: It creates a vacuum and they it sucks that part in their mouth and they don't like something. They try to spit out when they ejected, goes in their cheek. 00:47:04 Speaker 1: The barb, the barb which is oftentimes the shin bone of a bear. Yes, yeah, that's pretty cool. 00:47:12 Speaker 6: It's the barb I like to dry. My favorite to eat helb is dried. 00:47:16 Speaker 4: Dried. 00:47:16 Speaker 1: See, I've never I would have never had that way cold. I kind of like dried salmon, salmon like meat snacks. 00:47:24 Speaker 5: Yeah. 00:47:25 Speaker 3: I have a hard time fishing with octopus because I like to eat the octopus so much. 00:47:30 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's tasty octopus from sometimes they go in their crab pots, you know right. 00:47:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, Heather Win, do your Meat Eater films come out? 00:47:41 Speaker 6: I think September. 00:47:42 Speaker 1: Oh, they're coming out soon, so you'll be able to watch on the media YouTube channel a bunch of stuff filmed in Alaska with with Heather and her dad and uh, it's gonna be it's gonna be cool. I'm looking forward to it. 00:47:54 Speaker 2: Does any of this fishing talk get you interested in diving into fish further class. 00:48:01 Speaker 1: I mean, I enjoy fishing in Alaska just because of the novelty of it, and I actually enjoy fishing. I just had to make a decision when I was twenty two years old, when I had my first child. It was like they gotta be a because at that time, I honestly could have gone probably either way. I liked to fish and hunt. I just knew I couldn't do both, so I kind of rejected, reject. I went that route, rejected fishing. 00:48:26 Speaker 6: How did you cook the halibt? 00:48:29 Speaker 1: Mark? 00:48:32 Speaker 5: Mark? 00:48:32 Speaker 1: Mark was sandwich fish, sandwich fish and chips. Oh, just butter, butter pretty much grilled halib I. 00:48:45 Speaker 2: Mean it's terrific given the circumstances. 00:48:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was on. It was on Meadia to roast the cooking show, you know, so it was fun. It was good. But I do love halibut. 00:48:53 Speaker 6: It was. 00:48:59 Speaker 4: Right one now. 00:49:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, O cal hey man, you know what people ask me all the time, and I want to ask you, Well, you were just on Joe Rogan. Yeah, tell me about that experience and you can tell us what we were talking about, what you guys were talking about. But this is a huge deal. I mean, like you in our culture. If aliens came down here and analyzed our culture, they would be like, wait a minute, why do people think it's like unique and cool to go on Joe Rogan Regan? 00:49:38 Speaker 6: Who's this? 00:49:39 Speaker 1: But like you were on Rogan like two weeks ago, it's. 00:49:44 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a weird deal. I feel like I've known Joe for a long time now, It's not like we're talking on the phone every day. 00:49:52 Speaker 1: But uh, however, called Joe Rogan tonight. I love you Joe. 00:50:04 Speaker 3: It's a lot different these days, like the last last time, like when we hunted together and then uh we did the Joe Rogan podcast when when he was still in California. 00:50:15 Speaker 1: So you've been on it before. 00:50:16 Speaker 3: Yeah, one one time for the exact same reason as as this last time, right public lands. But you know, when he was in California, it was like, cool, show up at this address. There you are, We walk in, he unlocks his own door, walking together. Now it's it's way different, right, undisclosed location and you get picked up, dropped off. You know, his security team is all it's all the same guys from the last couple of years really, you know, nice guys. So sat around bsked with them. Then Joe finally rolled in and and uh and yeah did did the podcast. And it was kind of odd timing, right, because we had been talking and I'd been like, hey, Joe, you need to pay attention to this public land sell off stuff. It's very real. 00:51:10 Speaker 1: So you had said that you had communicated with him before, Yeah, in some way, yeah, yeah, just call him, email him. 00:51:18 Speaker 3: I was just texting him, just saying hey, man, like this is real, just to stay on top of it. And Cameron Haynes was was I was keeping him in the loop, right and uh. And then eventually I was like, this is super real, like we got to make a podcast happen. And He's like, yep, you're right, it's you. 00:51:38 Speaker 1: That's that's that's gutsy. I like it that you had the boldness to say, hey, we need to do a podcast. Yeah, and he and he did it. 00:51:45 Speaker 3: I'm not going to call him and be like, hey, I want to talk about me, right, I mean, this is important stuff. So and and yeah, I mean he was like, okay, how about July fourth? And I was like, dude, July fourth too late they're gonna vote. They're supposed to vote in the Senate on July, so it's got to be earlier in that. And he was like, okay, yeah, I'll reschedule this other guy and got in there July third, and he's like, but that's the best I can do. So went down there and yeah, I had a good talk. But you know, at that point, we had just gotten two days earlier the public lands sell off language removed from the Senate version of the the budget bill, big big, beautiful budget bill, and so we kind of had like a little bit of a recap, but also like, this is kind of how we got here. And you know, Joe likes to have tangents too, you know, and some some of which I'm not super interested in, if I'm being honest, But so you know, have have to kind of redirect, but you know, very important to me obviously making sure we have places to go hunt and fish and making sure that people understand that even though you're not using it, this is yours right now. Do you want to lose it forever? Because once it's gone, it's gone. And yeah, so that's that's what we talked about. And then you know, right right, now today, I just got a call because the next version of land sell offs is is coming in and there's a lot of folks working really hard to defund a lot of like very specific areas of how we manage our public resources and in an effort to kind of minimize those areas and make them easier to sell off. So I got a call from the Washington Post today to talk about where we think this funding is going and is it important to hunters and anglers. 00:53:55 Speaker 4: You know? 00:53:55 Speaker 3: So, yeah, I mean, and it's just gonna keep coming until folks understand that public land, public water, public wildlife is so important to everybody that it's not this political bargaining chip. You got to keep your hands off of it, right, So, and by keep your hands off of it, there's always these extremes these days, right, the ultra crazy liberal left and the ultra crazy conservative right, and nobody talks about the ultra crazy middle right, where it's not keep your hands off it, you can't touch it, you can't go out there, as some people like to say, And it's not. It only does us good if we can extract everything off of it, right, So we all use stuff when it's time for extraction. It's got to be responsible extraction, and there's there's ways to do that stuff responsibly if we demand that it needs to be done that way, right, So yeah, kind of advocating for the ultra crazy middle ground, like the radical center. Yeah, exactly, radical center. 00:55:12 Speaker 1: Is it true that maybe I heard you say Mark today that Mike Lee, who was the face of the of the of the bill that was the part of the bill that was wanting to sell off the land, yep, that after all this he was like, uh there there murmurs of him thinking that where did all this opposition come from? Was it this dark money? 00:55:33 Speaker 2: Who's funding? 00:55:34 Speaker 4: What? 00:55:34 Speaker 2: What dark money is funding all this opposition? 00:55:37 Speaker 1: As if as if our voice and all the hunters and anglers who stood up on social. 00:55:41 Speaker 2: Media and it could not be legitimate. 00:55:44 Speaker 1: Right it we had to be somehow being coerced or paid or I mean that actually had he actually said that. 00:55:50 Speaker 5: Because apparently that's the way they do business up there. 00:55:53 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:55:53 Speaker 3: It's revealing, right, Yeah, and that's a huge like where we need to get to thing is is we're only going to have as much transparency into this process as we demand, and a lot of these people do not want people paying attention to them. 00:56:14 Speaker 4: They just they do not with. 00:56:16 Speaker 3: The more spotlight they have on them, the less they're gonna get done in their own way. And that's the role that we all have to play, you know, as citizens, is demanding that these people represent our interests. And sometimes the chips might fall in the right direction when we're not paying attention, but that's not where I'm going to put my money. 00:56:38 Speaker 5: You know, you want to see the roaches running high, just turn the lights on. 00:56:41 Speaker 3: Turn the lights on, yes, sir. So there's a lot of very smart folks who are in tune with things saying that there's going to be another big land sell off attempt here during hunting season because people have realized that it was It wasn't until the hunting community, and this is something that we should be patting our backs on. It wasn't until the hunting community really got riled up that everybody else started taking it really seriously, and it was this kind of domino effect, if you will. And so people have been like, oh my gosh, well, let's just do it during the hunting season, and then these people are going to be distracted because we know they care way more about hunting than what we're doing. 00:57:30 Speaker 5: Well. 00:57:30 Speaker 7: The thing is, I've always thought that we as the hunting and fishing community kind of have a superpower on these types of issues because folks like Mike Lee and his ILK they can ignore the traditional environmentalists, the traditional left leaning green crowd, because those folks weren't supporting Mike Lee or anyone on that side of the aisle anyways, right, But they do need to listen to the hunting and fishing community, which has traditionally supported the right side of the aisle, and they need the support of our community. So all this and we start making a ruckus about this stuff, we are being heard. They do need to, you know, work for that constituency. So there's a little bit of an extra opportunity we have in these moments. 00:58:12 Speaker 3: H And there's a giant chunk of under I feel like something that the politicians need to pay attention to is there's this huge, huge group literally larger than the group that voted for the Democrats and larger than the group that voted for the Republicans in this last election, that are saying we are not being represented. And it's motivating that thirty six percent that didn't vote to vote one way or another, right, like, where's my representation? And I think a lot of those people definitely stood up and made phone calls and posts and rallied people during this public land sales stuff. So the more that we can get people engaged, the more they're going to pay attention. So I say, policy not politics. Don't support politics, but you gotta be involved in policy. 00:59:15 Speaker 1: You're here, well, I was, I was. I was proud to know you cal on that whole deal. Just uh yeah, I was just thinking about I mean, it's it's uh. I mean, sometimes those kind of issues aren't on the forefront, but when they are, I look, I'm looking to you and and and some other people. Mark was really vocal on it. 00:59:38 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, exactly exactly. 00:59:43 Speaker 1: So anyway, it was a it was a it was a clutch play, you know, and there was so many people involved. I mean yeah, but it was yeah, And I guess we're just gonna have to keep finding it, man. I mean, you know, we're preaching to the choir so much, but I mean we just have I feel like that we just have no no real awareness of how fortunate we are to live in this country, have access to public land. 01:00:11 Speaker 4: Yep. 01:00:12 Speaker 5: Period. 01:00:12 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like, this is a human experience that's that is not happening in other places where we could. And I mean there's all this talk about, you know, people being upset about ELK draws being harder to get to and hunting being limited, But Kylie, I'm just happy that I can get an ELK tag in my lifetime. I mean, I don't want the bar to drop so low that. I Mean, I realize there's challenges, but I'm just I just think it's cool that that we have access to what we have. 01:00:41 Speaker 3: And yeah, you can put your name in the hat for a big horn sheep right, It's like and it's it's possible, yep right, Yanni Drew big horn. Right, That's that's a tough one to grab, folks. Yeah, you just can't be complacent, right, because it doesn't matter how big Joe Rogan's podcast is. Like, if the people don't listen to that and then make the phone calls and the emails on their own, He's just one boys, right, or Clay or Heather or Brent or Jannis or Mark or myself. And you can't assume somebody else is going to be the heavy lifting, correct, that's the deal. 01:01:20 Speaker 4: I feel like we should put some effort into opposing Mike Lee next time he has to run for his seat. We can definitely remind people, right, Yeah, yeah, be great to get him primaried. 01:01:33 Speaker 1: Well, let's I want I want to close down with one story that that has just come up and everybody's talking about it, and I just I just kind of want to get your hot take on it. Ye honest, tell us about the the guy that poached the deer that that everybody's talking about. There's a good Mediator article about it, there's articles all over we we just give the world a look into what this guy did and what happened to him. 01:01:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'll preface it was saying that was really impressed by our editorial team, Maggie and I can't remember who she says. 01:02:07 Speaker 2: She wrote it with Whither. 01:02:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, but the latest like email that I got from them that I forget what the title was, it was like, don't be a moron? And then like the top three articles in this email and what's on the website today was all these poaching cases. Right, but Maggie wrote a nice little piece about being like don't be these people, Like, let's celebrate all the great things and do it right, respect it. And it was just really nice to see like us coming forward and putting our voice out there, not just writing an article, you know, sort of you know, trying to get clicks with another poaching case. Right. But the first one in the set of three is about a hunter, a and a you know internet celebrity YouTube hunter who has a show, albeit small, but he has a show on YouTube. I think he also is on Carbon TV if I'm not mistaken. And he was hunting in Kansas in a unit that he did not have a tag for. He did have a Kansas tag, but not a tag for that unit, killed a deer, drove that deer to Oklahoma, where he also had a tag, and then tagged that deer there, then went back to Kansas and hunted in the unit that he did have a tag for and killed another buck. In the end, when it all came out and he got busted, he got in trouble for killing two deer in Kansas, which you're not allowed to do. He can only kill one buck. And then he also got in trouble through the Lacyact for transporting that illegal animal across state lines. It's gonna say, Brent, when you're out there committing crimes, do you suggest crossing state lines? 01:03:51 Speaker 5: That is a bad, bad juju right there, that's going to escalated. 01:03:55 Speaker 1: How did they catch him. 01:03:56 Speaker 5: From a state to federal I'm not sure the article even stayed of how he was No, we don't. 01:04:01 Speaker 4: Know, but I do know that there was of like some heavy hitter government agencies in on it. I think it might even said c I A was was was in on it, like the big kids came out to stop this guy. So obviously both fish wildlife departments from Oklahoma and Kansas were involved. But yeah, it's a big deal. He's uh, he's losing his license uh for his lifetime in Kansas and then I forget how. 01:04:33 Speaker 5: Many years, five years, five years nationwide. 01:04:36 Speaker 1: It was interesting seeing all the hunting companies that sponsored him come out with their statements this week. Yeah, there's multiple multiple companies had these big ride ups about how they're rejecting their association with this kind of surprise, like they why. 01:04:53 Speaker 7: They would even say anything at all, because this was personally I'd never heard of this person before or I've never heard of it felt like you were actually bringing more tension to him and your association with him by doing this post. Then if you just said nothing at all, I don't think anybody would have known about it exactly. 01:05:07 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think that the pr side of things, they don't want to get caught being like, hey, everybody else sort of made a statement, Sure are you condoning this? 01:05:17 Speaker 5: Yeah? 01:05:17 Speaker 4: Yeah? 01:05:17 Speaker 1: Maybe after one person does it, yeah, maybe, so the whole thing gets it's crazy, the whole thing gets messed up. 01:05:24 Speaker 7: So I heard a story about another person who had been in this world that we're talking about, like the media world, who had been busted for some illegal stuff and got busted in part by the Laciact because he had brought, you know, an animal legally harvested across state lines, and that made it so much worse because of that. So now this person supposedly, whenever this person kills a deer in a certain state, even if he thinks he did everything by the book, he leaves that deer in that state for a minimum of five years to ensure that nothing else is like found out and dug up that he could get in trouble for if he were to transfer over state lines. 01:06:09 Speaker 1: Now he chose to do this or the judge said he had. 01:06:12 Speaker 2: To do this again. This is all secondhand. So okay, tell. 01:06:15 Speaker 4: You're saying when he leaves the deer, you're talking about the head. Yeah, so he like leaves it with the taxidermist and does not take it to his home for five years. 01:06:23 Speaker 3: Oh boy, that's a good way to get a deer back from a taxidermist in twenty years. If you're like, hey, don't worry about it, I'll pick it up in five years. 01:06:33 Speaker 4: I worry about You're the only guy that's actually going to get your tax durmy on time. 01:06:41 Speaker 1: Well, everybody loves a good poaching story. Why well I have all people because I actually don't my my buddies. Well yeah, what do you think? Come on, you do well the best, you're the best. Some of the highest listen to. 01:06:59 Speaker 7: Bear Greeks episodes of all time have been our poetry leaderes. 01:07:03 Speaker 1: And they're just interesting. They're they're they're human interest stories because the interest in this case, if I was sitting down with this guy, I would be like, why did you know? Why did you do this? 01:07:14 Speaker 5: What? 01:07:15 Speaker 2: What were you? 01:07:15 Speaker 1: Where were you after? Why did you think you'd get away with it? Did you steal stuff? When you were a kid, Did you tell the truth? I mean, it's a it's a. 01:07:22 Speaker 2: It's a human psychology fascination. 01:07:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like a human interest story. And what you usually find out is that some of these guys aren't that much different than just the average guy. I mean, and it's and it's sometimes a momentary lapse and judgment. It's usually a lifetime of lack of character. Honestly, when it's this egregious, I mean, you don't do this on accident, you know, I mean there and and and there's such a nuance to me inside of game violations. You know, there's some that are just clearly egregious. This is egregious. 01:07:57 Speaker 3: Like this guy, there's planning. 01:08:00 Speaker 1: He didn't kill it. Didn't do this on accident, Like he didn't accidentally kill it daring Kansas, thinking he was in Oklahoma. 01:08:07 Speaker 4: He had to you know, film a twenty two minute episode or whatever and continue this lie through the episode Alklahoma. 01:08:18 Speaker 5: Do you sail film it? 01:08:19 Speaker 4: No, he's with him. 01:08:20 Speaker 5: Well, he's got an accomplice. 01:08:21 Speaker 2: As far the film work, Yeah. 01:08:24 Speaker 1: Would you considered a film episode? 01:08:26 Speaker 6: Was the film? Does he do create content? It just filming because we're going to cover it up and we're going to say we're here. 01:08:35 Speaker 1: No, he was filming. 01:08:40 Speaker 3: So the FBI profile for serial killers is like you can overlap it with serial poachers. And they did that study with I want to say, like US Fish and Wildlife Service maybe just just to see a few years ago. And so that made the round quite a bit, I want to say, like five years ago. And it's been referenced a couple other times because there have been serial poachers that have one day just decided to kill somebody and they had the exact same reasoning as to why they shoot a handful of bucks at night every year or whatever it is, right, it's like, I don't know, just did it. So that's really interesting to think about on the poaching side of things. And then the guy that I would love for you to interview because I just I want to know the whole reason. Why is this dude? This is a big time case. It broke gosh, I want to say, about eighteen months ago, and then then the kind of the civil part of it just kind of wrapped up now. But this guy, uh Carl schlaughter I think. 01:09:55 Speaker 4: Is his name. 01:09:57 Speaker 3: He's a Southern Idaho dude, fuel Idaho area Burley Bule but like local farmer kid done super well for himself. Sits like, went to Lineman school, got on the board of a co op and then got on the board of this giant electrical company making tons of money and just a filthy poacher right and has all the cash to go wherever and do it all right, and free time and stuff, and gets like really into it to where he's like, wall, none of these poachers are really doing it at a pro level, and so he kind of sets up his own insider trading of illegal tags in Idaho. And that's at the point at which he got busted. But I mean he'd been observed for quite a while and the case was being put together. But that is guy I would love to sit down with or have you sit down with and just be like walk me through the decision because he was he was killing like his kids bull elk for him, you know what I mean. 01:11:12 Speaker 6: Like, there's a guy in my town. I love this guy. Second old here we go. Just love this guy every time I see him at the story stop and talking to me. Drives around with like six dogs and gets a pack of ground beef and feeds him wrong ground beef and the truck and I love him, but he has a few poached lots and lots when he was growing up and in his adult and he tells me stories all. 01:11:37 Speaker 1: The time, is he but he does. 01:11:41 Speaker 6: No, he's I think he's like in his late seventies now and he does it. He lives in Alaska. But this one story about uh, you know, they'd watch him, they'd wait for him and at night, and he got so good at hiding the. 01:12:00 Speaker 1: You know, he's got so good. 01:12:01 Speaker 6: Said one time he put it in in a spare tire. It was in the back of his truck and then put the rim back and then the police were looking all over and they're like, we know you got one, and they couldn't find it and they're moving this tire around is so heavy, and he said when the guy retired, the law enforcement officer retired, he told them it was in that tire the whole time. 01:12:23 Speaker 5: Oh man, you'd like. 01:12:25 Speaker 6: To talk to this guy. 01:12:27 Speaker 4: What I thought it was interesting about the one that we started conversation with is that he's doing it for a show. And since all of us film some version of hunting catching, uh, you know your episode is going to be better when something dies to some extent right there. 01:12:47 Speaker 3: When you get the goal of the show. 01:12:49 Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh, sometimes the hero doesn't, you know, get over that that home, but like that's a real pressure, right to come home with pressure. 01:13:00 Speaker 5: Pressure is one thing, but integert is is something else, and that that's going to win every show as far as I'm concerned, and y'all too. I mean, I'm not I'm telling no about the flood saying that to you guys, But it's just the the idea that a fella can anyone and put themselves in a place to feel the amount of pressure that the only way that they can do that is to have the hero shot with the dead animal. That's the only way that you can win. He's not out there for the same reasons I am for sure, or any of you folks. 01:13:35 Speaker 1: You know, we didn't. We didn't mention it that one of the deer was like one hundred and ninety something. 01:13:43 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's different in that case. Oklahoma Tates. 01:13:53 Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, when I was I was feeling, you know, I'm new at this and we're filming, was we're hunting up in Alaska, was like, do you show the missus? Oh yeah, it's okay. I just watched a little preview with my first episode. I go, you to show me missing five times in a row, like, are gonna show me beginning? They're like, oh, you're missing because it's far you can't tell. I was like watching it like circles, so it's real, it's part of it, and it is, you know, every time I see one of those things. 01:14:28 Speaker 3: I in all. 01:14:31 Speaker 1: Honestly, the reason I was paranoid about Brent just a little bit when I first met him was because I was I had just stepped into the hunting industry that not full time, just was like writing some stuff and and uh, and I've told the story so many times I won't believe it, but but we really grew my dad. Actually I didn't didn't realize this would be abnormal, But my dad actually really taught us to follow the law. I mean, like we didn't get it's not I don't think, well, okay, he took it. He took it unusually serious for everybody that I knew for real, just like letter of the law kind of stuff. So I grew up with that and maybe a little bit of paranoia because of that. And then uh, just when I got into the hunting industry. You know, I envisioned, well, what if I just made a mistake, you know, and this and this, this thing is over and and uh so I always I don't I don't have people maybe have accused me of being empathetic sympathetic towards poachers because of some of the stuff that we've done on bear grease. And uh I was going to tell you any candidate of a bear grease story they've got, he's got to be redemption in the arc. So this guy, this guy in Idaho, like know, I don't want to give him any press if he's kind of still a dirt ball. 01:16:05 Speaker 3: Well you know what I mean, that's the yeah, I mean it's very well could be. 01:16:11 Speaker 4: I just don't know. 01:16:13 Speaker 3: I'm dying to know. Like the psychological reason, it's like you could have gone. I mean, he's wealthy enough to where he could go anywhere outside of the interstate compact and continue to hunt and and be just and do as much as he wants, just not close to home, right, But it's just like I'm just dying to know, Like. 01:16:36 Speaker 6: What, yeah, what why poached? 01:16:41 Speaker 1: Oh you did? 01:16:41 Speaker 4: A little. 01:16:43 Speaker 6: Dad cancer sick and they were starving. 01:16:46 Speaker 1: Poor m That's what started it, but he kind of kept on. 01:16:50 Speaker 6: No, he said, the I'll call it a warden. That's what we call it. He said, during that time, his dad is going sick, he said, the the guy who's always after him. He's like, i'll see you later. Like it's kind of like a nod to I'm gonna look the other way because they know you all are struggling. But then he kept on after and then I think it was I don't know if it's a dopamine thing or what your rush, you know when you do that. 01:17:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, interesting, Yeah, well the white the white tell stories are always wild, and you know, I mean, yeah, that's my I don't really have a conclusion. I just wanted to talk about I just wanted to talk about conclusion. 01:17:39 Speaker 4: You know his quote, you know, big deer make people do stupid stuff. 01:17:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you. 01:17:44 Speaker 6: Just say I love you, buddy. Good night. 01:17:48 Speaker 1: That's how we're going to close off the episode. Hey, it's been fun. It's been fun having everybody on here. It's been a fun conversation. 01:17:56 Speaker 3: And uh, burst ever crackling. 01:18:00 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to call it if we do that, If we use that name for the third rendition of the Bear, you know, the bear Grease podcast feeds getting really complicated. We got the bear Grease Proper, which is our documentary style episode. We got the bear Grease Render, which is us sitting around talking about the bear Grease Proper. We got Brents this country life podcast. And now we have Lake Pickles back Backwoods University. There's a lot going on there, so uh and then now we're gonna have the bear Grease Crackling. 01:18:29 Speaker 6: Do you eat the cracklings? 01:18:31 Speaker 5: Oh? 01:18:31 Speaker 6: Yeah, like seal. Weat seal crispya we call it Chrispy. 01:18:36 Speaker 1: I usually use them as dog treats. 01:18:39 Speaker 6: Nice. 01:18:40 Speaker 3: You can put salt or sugar or all. 01:18:43 Speaker 1: Right, thank you guys. Why don't you wish him good night? 01:18:47 Speaker 5: Good night, Thank y'all for listening to bear Grease Crackling, And like I always say to my friends, good night buddy,