00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Klay Nukleman. 00:00:16 Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the place as we explore. All Right, I have a very very very strict agenda today, very strict agenda, and I've got to. 00:00:53 Speaker 1: Go through a list quickly so that we don't forget anything. 00:00:58 Speaker 3: Got it. 00:00:58 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about nobody talk. We're gonna talk about real estate. I'm just gonna hit the high points. I don't want to foreshadow too much. 00:01:06 Speaker 1: We're gonna hit. We're gonna talk about real estate. 00:01:08 Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about Ben Lee, We're gonna talk about money laundering and cock fighting and Josh, you know how much y'all love you? 00:01:16 Speaker 3: Right, I don't like how this is being set up. 00:01:21 Speaker 2: We're gonna start off the podcast by me asking you why you decided to wear your your your kid clothes today and not wear pants like a grown man. 00:01:32 Speaker 3: Well, let me explain this to you. Because there are men who hunt and there are men who have real jobs and they take people fishing. This is my this is my work uniform. This is my kid closes, this is my work uniform. And I'm you're lucky. I don't have sandals on, flip flops on. 00:01:53 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. 00:01:54 Speaker 3: That's my work. 00:01:54 Speaker 1: I have that. So you look good. You look good. 00:01:57 Speaker 3: I know I look good. 00:01:58 Speaker 1: I don't know that you've ever shorts and a render. 00:02:01 Speaker 3: I've worn shorts and a render hundreds of times. 00:02:04 Speaker 1: You haven't. 00:02:05 Speaker 3: We're going back after this, guys, We're gonna sit down and watch every render with gods. 00:02:09 Speaker 2: Tell us thinks there's something wrong with me because I do not wear shorts. 00:02:15 Speaker 1: When I go to the gym. 00:02:16 Speaker 3: I tell us, wear shorts all the time. 00:02:17 Speaker 2: I know he usually when he's around me for more than a couple of days, and I don't wear shorts. He's he's trying to like psycho analyze me. 00:02:27 Speaker 1: It's like Clay, tell me about your childhood, and I tell him. I tell him the story at the gym. 00:02:34 Speaker 2: I tell him the story about when I was at the bow shop and Mina Arkansas. I remember the man's name. I remember the man's name. I could tell you his name. He's probably still alive, so I won't. And I remember there was a picture of me on the wall with a bow. I had won a bow tournament and he said, who's the chubby little kid in the short paints? 00:03:00 Speaker 3: Are you that got it? Is that what Joannis was able to like dig out of you over time? 00:03:05 Speaker 2: Actually, I don't know if I told you, but I found it to be pretty pretty good advice for life. So you look good, Josh, Thank you. 00:03:16 Speaker 3: Hey, I took a buddy. I took a buddy fishing recently. And this guy is like a cowboy. I mean, he's a real cowboy. And I was like, okay, let's go fishing. And I go to pick him up and he comes out in his wranglers and his cowboy boots and his button up shirt, and I mean he was ready to I'm surprised he didn't have spurs on. 00:03:35 Speaker 1: But fishing. 00:03:36 Speaker 3: We went fishing and he's in his pressed wranglers and cowboy boots. 00:03:40 Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. 00:03:41 Speaker 2: So Josh is a trout fishing god. If you need, if you need to go trout fishing in Arkansas, Josh as your man. 00:03:47 Speaker 4: I'll be honest. My first that's why I thought. 00:03:49 Speaker 3: I was like, he gives off kind of guy the guys working on, didn't you. 00:03:53 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:03:54 Speaker 1: So we have two guests with us today. 00:03:56 Speaker 4: Uh. 00:03:57 Speaker 2: We've been trying to do this for a while. This is Jacob Myers. This is Andrew Maxwell. Yes, sir, from Alabama. From Alabama, and so you guys are podcasters Southern Outdoorsman Podcast. 00:04:09 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been a long, crazy journey. It's been fun. Glad to find will be here. We have talked about this for a. 00:04:14 Speaker 3: While, ye have. 00:04:15 Speaker 5: Yeah, I had just a quick note on the shorts. H Jacob almost wore shorts and flip flops this morning. He saw me putting on these jeans and he's like, you're wearing jeans. I'm like, yeah, I'm grown up. 00:04:27 Speaker 4: You put those We just got I just got back from fishing in Venice and we're tuna fishing for a couple of days. And I'm like, that's the first time I woren flip flops in years. And I'm like, man, I'm like I'm kind of feeling it. I was, Yeah, anyway, so I'm like, probably not, shouldn't wear that today. Plus i'd be freezing. 00:04:42 Speaker 3: You would have had an advocate man. 00:04:45 Speaker 4: Josh, I would know you're on my side and I would have done it. 00:04:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it is comfortable, but it's just what do you wear to the gym? 00:04:53 Speaker 1: I do wear shorts at the gym. 00:04:55 Speaker 3: You're gonna have like paparazzi now trying to get pictures of you and shorts. 00:04:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, just functional. Functional, that's what it's got to be. Well, we're gonna we're gonna, we're gonna talk about We're gonna talk. We're gonna talk about what you guys do. But I've got to go through my list. We got to talk about real estate. I want to tell y'all story. I heard this yesterday. Tell me if you've ever heard anything like this, this happened to. This is not like an internet story. This happened to my friends. Like I know the people this happened to, and I actually heard the story from their their daughter, So like the story happened. 00:05:29 Speaker 3: Just like this. 00:05:30 Speaker 2: There was a piece of land, piece of landlocked property in a state that borders Arkansas, piece of landlocked hunting pop property that's been in this family for several generations. No really bad access, no houses, It was just a hunting property. Guys had trail cameras out there. There's a group of the family that had trail cameras. They randomly in May. They still had batteries in their trail cameras from deer season and uh. One of the family members who lived out of state just decided to check his cellar ca cam, pulls it up and sees a truck drive past the gate. Bear, we go, holler at that dog, yep, give them, give him a good one. We're leaving this in. This is just part of life. You tell a lot about a man by the way hollers his dog. 00:06:26 Speaker 1: See. 00:06:27 Speaker 2: So he he sees a truck drive by, and he texts his relative says, hey, I like your new truck. And the guy goes, my new truck, what you talking about? And he said, a white truck just drove by. 00:06:39 Speaker 1: YadA YadA. Well, they don't think much about it. 00:06:42 Speaker 2: They go out there and put a padlock on the gate or something, and two days later, two trucks drive by and they get the license plate and they call the sheriff and they say, who is this person. They're trespassing on our land. The sheriff runs the plate and it's a local realtor who's in on this land, And he goes, what are y'all doing in there? And the realtor goes, is a small town. They kind of knew each other, you know. And the realtor goes, sheriff, that land is being sold and we close in five hours. And the sheriff calls the family and goes, is your land for sale? And the guy goes, no, the land is not for sale. What are you talking about? And they say, Mark, you know whoever, this is a good realtor. They're going to a closing in five hours on that you know, one hundred and sixty acres or something. And it is a scam where people from somewhere find like obscure land with nobody living on it, that has tax records that you know, somehow they're able to be like, nobody's paying attention to this land. You know, it's been in the family for generations. That's one thing where like they just think like people have forgotten or people have moved off, like if it changed hands three years ago, you know, somebody's paying attention. And they forge all the documents put it up for sale on out of state websites, so it wasn't for sale in the state that it was in, and somebody from some family from Colorado was going to buy the land and move there and build a house. 00:08:35 Speaker 3: That's crazy. 00:08:37 Speaker 4: So I've heard that on a podcast and on social media that that's happening right now. So that's really interesting that you just had that story, Yeah, because I'm like, I haven't personally heard of anybody that had it happen to them. But that's insane. 00:08:49 Speaker 3: How do I get in on this? 00:08:51 Speaker 2: That brings up money laundering that is on the list, But that's crazy. It truly is an And they were able to stop the closing obviously, but they they were told that if it had gone through and the money was like completely lost, that they probably would have had to have fought like in court to I mean, it would have been a massive ordeal between the people that bought the land. Like it seems to me like it'd be like, well, you just flush your money down the toilet, like this is our land. But they apparently it would have been harder than that, which would have just mean. But the realtor wasn't in on it, no, that's my understanding. 00:09:36 Speaker 3: So who's benefiting, Like, how was that money getting back to the people. 00:09:40 Speaker 1: That had well, i mean they're the seller seller the. 00:09:45 Speaker 2: Crook, the crooked seller interest to just get the money and then I'm sure they got some elaborate plan to make it disappear. 00:09:53 Speaker 3: Wow, that's crazy. 00:09:54 Speaker 5: What a nightmare for the people they were trying to buy it too, because what if you bought that land and then one. 00:10:00 Speaker 1: Shows up and they're like no, Well, I mean they're the people that would lose. 00:10:04 Speaker 2: I mean, because they're the ones that would have all the money would be gone. So anyway, I thought that was an astonishing story, just crazy. 00:10:12 Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought about. 00:10:16 Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine a human that could live with that kind of I mean, we all know there's crooks and thieves in the world, but like you think about some guy just like you passing Walmart that you don't know, Yeah, that would have stolen two hundred and fifty thousand dollars from somebody, just literally stole it from them. I mean somebody it was. It was It wasn't like some overseas deal. It was somebody from here that really knew the system. 00:10:43 Speaker 3: Nobody's stealing two undred and fifty thousand dollars from me. I can tell you that because I ain't got. 00:10:51 Speaker 2: Well, okay, that's part one. That's part one. This is this is part two. Do you are you guys familiar with Ben Lee? Oh yeah, y'all would be for me Alabama? 00:11:00 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very familiar. What's Ben Lee's reputation in Alabama? 00:11:04 Speaker 5: Everybody who's like a died in the world turkey hunter knows like all the Ben Lee stories. 00:11:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like an icon in Alabama. 00:11:12 Speaker 5: Almost every single person we interviewed in Alabama this year about turkey hunting brought up. 00:11:16 Speaker 1: Ben Rogers Lee, all of them. 00:11:18 Speaker 5: And then we found out that his son is still living and I think still selling some of his turkey calls, and so we're like, we ought to track him down really and. 00:11:25 Speaker 1: Get him on the show. But yeah, he's he's huge. Yeah, yeah, is he is? His reputation good long pause? Yeah, I mean with the. 00:11:36 Speaker 5: Turkey hunters, Yeah, I don't know with some of the maybe state officials. 00:11:40 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:11:41 Speaker 4: Yeah. And that's the thing, and like, we know some guys who hunted a lot with Ben Lee and did a lot of seminars with him, and he said he'd a't you know know the stories he ever told supposedly were true. But he liked to move, yeah, and move a lot of stuff. 00:11:54 Speaker 5: Around, Like he'd be doing seminars and like one of his like jokes he was doing the seminars would be like the best turkey so is a no trespassing sign or a posted sign, and like there's a story about him saying that, and the director of Wildlife in Freshwater. 00:12:07 Speaker 1: Was sitting in the audience. He just got up and walked out, you know. So there's a lot of stories like that. 00:12:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're having spray paint tennis shoes with some white nikes or white new balances of spray paint and green just so you could run if you know that Layne ever finds out you're on the property. Stuff like that where someone of the story. 00:12:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was pretty rough, rough around the edges. 00:12:25 Speaker 5: So yeah, apparently the turkey poaching culture goes way back in the Southeast apparently. 00:12:30 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. 00:12:31 Speaker 2: Well, so we did an episode a couple episodes back. 00:12:35 Speaker 1: It was called Confessions of a Former Outlaw. 00:12:39 Speaker 2: So we interviewed this guy who had hunted with Ben Lee and had spent quite a bit of time with him. And our guy was a former outlaw, had a real shift in his life, and that was kind of the story. But he started talking about Ben Lee and and somebody. 00:12:54 Speaker 3: Well Aaron Mansfield. 00:12:56 Speaker 1: Aaron Mansfield. Where is he from? 00:13:00 Speaker 3: Probably Ala, Alabama? 00:13:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, Aaron Mansfield from Alabama. Just a listener sent me this is a Ben Lee box call, which these are hard come by, and it's. 00:13:10 Speaker 3: That one signed, that one apparently belonged to Ben Lee, like that was one of his calls and he gave it away. 00:13:16 Speaker 2: Wow, he gave it, just just sent it to me. But sounds good. I mean I didn't chalco it. I just like picked it up and it actually sounds really good. It's called a twin hen because I think the other side sounds quite a bit different. 00:13:41 Speaker 3: He also he you guys need to check him out. This a PM Woodworks. 00:13:46 Speaker 5: Yeah, he made us two nets. Actually I was about to say that he's from Georgia. That's right, I'm talking about the same person. 00:13:51 Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, he makes these beautiful hand nets man all custom made with en lay for the fishermen in the group. 00:14:01 Speaker 1: So yeah, he's a great guy. 00:14:03 Speaker 5: We met him at a trade show and yeah, he said, I'm looking forward to meeting them. 00:14:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a great guy man. 00:14:08 Speaker 4: Okay, see he made us some nets, and I feel bad because we don't trail. We don't have trout in Alabama. 00:14:13 Speaker 3: Really, I use it on some you can send them to me. 00:14:16 Speaker 4: And I feel bad about using a crappie fishing because he's got a troutling laden in mine. And I'm like, dude, I just feel I feel terrible using this for a different species. 00:14:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, very talented, beautiful stuff. What else is on my list? I've lost the list? 00:14:30 Speaker 3: You lost the list of cock fighting? 00:14:33 Speaker 1: Well, okay, it's just come. 00:14:38 Speaker 3: Up a lot lately, and you want to go in on some. 00:14:44 Speaker 1: I would like. 00:14:45 Speaker 2: To have fighting roosters. I don't want to gamble. I don't want to fight them. 00:14:49 Speaker 4: You just want to have them. 00:14:51 Speaker 2: They're They're beautiful, beautiful animals. And I could take you about any direction from right here? 00:14:57 Speaker 1: Is probably is it? Is it the same way in Alabama where you'll see p people that are raising fighting. 00:15:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess Tayler Parks and Albaim. I could take you to if you want some. 00:15:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't want to fight. I don't want people to be confused. Like people could hear me talking about outlaws and think Clay's an outlaw. I'm not perfect, but I'm the furthest thing from an outlaw. You might think of my interesting cockfighting as like, oh, Clay wants to cockfight. Nope, I don't. I just think there. I think it's I think it's an interesting sport and it it it it. It's just been coming up a lot. So I'm working on in a potential episode about about cock fighting. I'd listen to that because there's some there's some. I mean, it's a it's it's terrible, Like I'm not I'm not trying to say that it's good, but uh so. 00:15:46 Speaker 3: Uh are we going to have like voices like like the the voice changing thing like they do on these expose as. Yeah, that'd be. 00:15:54 Speaker 1: Awesome, Yeah, John Doe. Yeah wait, so what's the different? They looked different? 00:16:01 Speaker 5: Are you there's around just big, big, pretty roosters. Okay, you know they like aggressive to people, get you, like a home defense chicken. 00:16:08 Speaker 1: But that's pretty much good. 00:16:10 Speaker 3: I think they're pretty much aggressive to anything. 00:16:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're probably right about that. 00:16:14 Speaker 3: There used to be a there used to be a turkey here on this property. 00:16:19 Speaker 1: That aggressive mean foul on this place. 00:16:22 Speaker 3: I mean if you, if you showed any kind of weakness at all, that that tom would come and just attack you. If you were a female, it was coming after you. When so we had it was a wild turkey. 00:16:35 Speaker 2: It was we didn't like gather from the while, but it was bought as an Eastern wild turkey. 00:16:40 Speaker 1: It was tame. 00:16:41 Speaker 2: We started out with seven and and we ended up with like three. And so it was a gang of jakes that would running around our house free. We just let them run free. And uh, there was a gentleman that came here quite often, dear friend of ours, that had had had a stroke and limped really bad. 00:16:59 Speaker 3: If you twisted your ankle. 00:17:01 Speaker 2: And man, when he would get out of the car like a normal person get out of the car, turkey didn't didn't didn't do anything when it saw that guy limping, they would just just come. 00:17:12 Speaker 1: Over there and stretch. They would attack him. 00:17:17 Speaker 3: It's terrible. 00:17:18 Speaker 2: And then when Missy's grandmother would come over here, no white haired lady, you know, kind of slow. When little kids would come over here. If a little kid would get out of the car and run out in front to the house before their parents, it'd be on people's cars when they left. You know, they like come in the house and they'd come back. 00:17:46 Speaker 3: Out smoking cigarettes, turkeys on their car, you know, like scratching up the pain. 00:17:51 Speaker 1: Like, hey, we're really sorry about the turkeys. 00:17:53 Speaker 2: Anyway, they ended up getting killed by our neighbors actually shot him thinking they were wild turkeys for like half a mile from there. It was a it was a different era. You guys both from Alabama. Did you did you grow up in Alabama? 00:18:20 Speaker 4: Jacob? Yeah, I did. I've lived all over the place, book from Alabama. 00:18:23 Speaker 1: Yes, what's your like? 00:18:25 Speaker 2: Tell me about your well, first of all, y'all full time podcasting, yep, both of you. Yep, that's that's pretty incredible. 00:18:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. 00:18:35 Speaker 4: It's been a cool journey. It's been. It's been. It was never a goal first off, Never a goal. Just kind of happened. So it was like the decision of there was one point where we're like, either when you change something with the podcasts, or we might not be able to continue the podcast because of how much time was taken with our careers. Yeah, and I made the decision. Like five years ago, I drew an eye with Lasus Musslier Tag and ended up losing my pt O time at work. Some stuff had happened, and uh, clocking in clocking out stuff anyways, so. 00:19:05 Speaker 1: You didn't clock in or clock out for seven months. 00:19:07 Speaker 4: I was, I was, I was, I was present and I was. I was working at a my career. I was a Hunderscent commissioned so like, I was there making What did you do? So I was working in the. 00:19:16 Speaker 1: Fun I asked you the same question. 00:19:18 Speaker 4: So I sold pre arrangements for funeral arrangements. 00:19:21 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, okay. 00:19:23 Speaker 4: So that's what I did for a handful of years. And uh, anyways, so I was there doing what I needed to do. But anyways, just wasn't going through the whole clock in clock out since I lost my PTO time. So I drew that tag. And it was getting to like second week in November and the hunt started in December, and I'm like, I'm not not going. And I talked to Andrew. I was like, hey, man, like, you know, talking some financials with the podcast, and uh, I thought I had talked to you previously Andrew about like maybe leaving, And all of a sudden, like I was like I just got to go, Like if it doesn't work out, I had money saved. If it doesn't work out, I'll just go back into that career path or get back into sales. I would love sales, and it I ended up going going out there killing a buck, spent like twelve days out there, killed a buck, came back and never looked. 00:20:06 Speaker 1: Back, and that was twenty You quit before you left? 00:20:09 Speaker 4: Yeah? I quit? Yeah, correct, quit the funeral home. Quit the funeral home and never been back. Been doing the podcast for the last five. 00:20:15 Speaker 2: Are are you Are you okay talking about your career in the funeral industry. 00:20:18 Speaker 4: Yeah? 00:20:18 Speaker 2: Absolutely okay, because that's way more interesting than anything that's happened. 00:20:23 Speaker 5: Yeah, Andrew helped me here, I got I got, I got details to add to this. 00:20:27 Speaker 4: Well. 00:20:28 Speaker 2: I've always when I when I've been to funerals and seen people there, I've always wondered, how did you get here? Like, how did you choose this? How did you how did you get in the funeral industry? 00:20:41 Speaker 4: So I was doing previously before that was in medical sales, and I'd lived in Nashville, just. 00:20:46 Speaker 1: Went to the dark side. 00:20:52 Speaker 4: I've never looked at it a good point. 00:20:54 Speaker 1: It's like, we're either going to help people live or we're going to help them when they're dead. 00:20:58 Speaker 4: Okay, well that's one way to look at So I was doing that for I did that for a couple of years. I was living in Nashville, then at transferred to Atlanta, Georgia, and then moved back to Birmingham. When I got back to Birmingham, wasn't working for the company anymore and I was trying to find something else sales wise, and it just came across like it was. A friend of a friend was talking about it, and I'm like, because you had to be a licensed insurance agent in order. Because how the policies are held, it's held through whole life policy, so that's how the funding goes into the count so that when you pass away, everything's taken care of. So I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. I was thinking about doing insurance anyway. So I went and applied that interview and they're like, yeah, you're hired. Started talking to people, and one thing I liked about more so than when I was doing medical industry. In the medical space, I was talking to market imaging directors at hospitals and stuff, and it wasn't very personable. It was very much bottom line, who can get me a certain piece of equipment at a certain price, and that was it. When I was in the funeral side of everything, it was very much like you built relationships with everybody you were working with and helping them through hard times and make sure everything was taking care of. I was not Andrew keeps joking. I was a date a grave digger, which I was not. Never touched that, never touched, never touched the show, anything like that. I was always working with the spouses and everything else in fam members. I really enjoyed it. But I did that for a handful of years. So I mean, I don't know what all you want to get in. 00:22:15 Speaker 2: You answer my question, and I knew there. I knew there would be a real answer. But that that I like it that you were you actually saw it as you were helping people that were in a difficult time in the relationship. Yeah, because I'm amazed at I mean, there's something about human death that's close to you that alters your life. I mean that's an obvious statement, like people dying is significant in your life, but even even beyond that, like, uh, I like for my kids to go with. 00:22:47 Speaker 1: Me to funerals. 00:22:48 Speaker 2: I think sometimes people are like, I'll protect the kids from that we're gonna go. I've always been like, come on, let's go. Yeah, And it's just like a unique moment in people's lives. 00:22:59 Speaker 1: So interesting, very interesting. 00:23:01 Speaker 4: It was one of those things, like getting dealt with so many hard situations, you know, all kinds of stuff, you know, children passing away, very elgly people pass away, to everybody in between, and working with families, it was. It was tough to work in that environment, but it was something that at the end of the day, making sure that just the family was taken care of and everything about the arrangements were situated in a way that gave them more peace of mind was fulfilling on that. But it was, dude, it was a lot, but it was one of those things. So I was doing that and the problem with that career path a problem. But one aspect of it was you were working typically six days a week, and then every other week you would work thirteen days straight. You'd work a whole weekend in the whole falling week as well, so it did not lean in very much time at all. Then. I think the couple of years I was there, three years I was there, I probably hunted a total of maybe ten eight to ten times a whole dear season and we have a very long deer season in Alabama. And after a while to get to the point where it's hard for me to do the podcast, Like I was living my life through the podcast interviewing these guys. I got a hunt all the time, and I wasn't getting to be able to do that. And finally, you know, with the Iowa Tay get me like, okay, I'm bouncing. 00:24:13 Speaker 1: And so what year was that? 00:24:14 Speaker 4: That was twenty twenty? Was twenty twenty? Maybe I think it was twenty twenty. I have no idea it was twenty that's want to kill that first year is twenty twenty. 00:24:22 Speaker 2: So when did y'all start your podcast? 00:24:25 Speaker 5: The Southern Outdoorsman started in October twenty seventeen. 00:24:31 Speaker 1: We're about to go to Wyoming. 00:24:32 Speaker 5: Me and Jacober Buddies were both I think we were both in college at the time. 00:24:36 Speaker 1: He might have just dropped out of college. 00:24:37 Speaker 4: I was out of college and. 00:24:38 Speaker 1: Oh he dropped out of colle Oh that's very interesting. Yeah, he was trying to get me to drop out too. 00:24:42 Speaker 5: He's like, hey, there's this medical sales thing you ought to I used to work at a bow shop in Birmingham and he came over there and he was there for like four hours talking to. 00:24:50 Speaker 3: Me on my shift. 00:24:51 Speaker 1: He's like, dude, you heed drop out and do this. I didn't do it. But anyways, Yeah, what was the question I forgot? 00:24:56 Speaker 4: Well, when we start the podcast. 00:24:58 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was October twenty seven, started the website and I was doing it for like a blog because I wanted to get into outdoor right in twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen, and I was like, I don't know, eighteen or nineteen, I had like no business writing for like a field and stream type magazine, but I was writing for local magazines at home, and I was like, well, I just need somethinghere. I can put stuff out there and like publish my own stuff and get reps and kind of build a portfolio. So I started that over the next couple of months, and people were like, hey, I ought to do a podcast because we all liked, you know, Wired to Hunt and a Meat Eater and people like that. We listened to those, but there was nothing for the Southeast, and so like, we ought to start something. And I approached Jacob about it and he was like absolutely not not interested. And after a couple months, I wore him down and in February twenty eighteen we started the actual podcast. 00:25:48 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, fifty dollars microphone from Amazon. 00:25:51 Speaker 2: I remember when y'all started because of your name stood out to me because at the time there was so little media, podcast. 00:25:58 Speaker 1: Media, specifically coming out the Southeast. Yeah, real, wasn't it. Oh yeah right? 00:26:03 Speaker 5: Oh yeah No, that's why we started it. I mean because we we wanted something. Like I mentioned Wired to Hunt. I enjoyed his show a lot and he did a great job with it. But he was talking to so many guys in like Iowa, Michigan and Midwestern Yeah, and they're talking about cornfields. I'm like, I don't have a cornfield within fifty miles of my house. It's all it's pine farms, it's all pine plantations. So we just needed we just tried to go create what we wish was already there essentially what we did Yeah. 00:26:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah. 00:26:30 Speaker 2: Do you guys ever think about what like so they'll look back in history at some point should the earth persist, and they'll say, Wow, podcasts really blew up right there because they have They're like every like, everybody's got a podcast, Like it's like this flooded market. 00:26:53 Speaker 1: What what service I mean? 00:26:56 Speaker 2: And I know it's like you could say, well, you know, we relay information, But have you ever thought about, like on a broader scale, the impacts of podcasts, like what is it? 00:27:07 Speaker 1: What will they say about us at some point? 00:27:09 Speaker 4: Well, it depends, but like, the one thing about podcasts is a way to be able to get out information very very quickly to the masses as long as the masses find that show, no matter what the conversation is. I get a lot of my news from some of the different podcasts and how quick they can turn stuff around. Yeah, and a lot of some of the hosts I listen to, they don't really have a certain lean to it. They just kind of tell you how it is, which is really nice. But even the outdoor space, you're able to get so much information out from hopefully reputable individuals and people that have a lot of experience that you can share that with other people and help shorten learning curse. And that's really what we do. We've focused very much on the educational side of everything. But I mean, like you said, you know, a couple hundred years from now or whenever they start talking about you know, podcast is still a thing or a conversation, and maybe they change to a different name. It would be interesting to kind of see, how ever, things progress, because the one thing we've noticed in the last three four years is that the move we've bent towards a video podcast. This is not just audio and people are now you know, they're not they don't have a TV there, they're not subscribed to cable TV or anything like that. They're watching on YouTube. They just have YouTube at the house. And if you've listened to podcasts or of watching stuff on YouTube, and now with podcasts being on YouTube, people can watch at the house. And that's the thing that's really blowing us away. So how many people are actually watching the show, not just listening to the show? 00:28:24 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah. 00:28:25 Speaker 5: Also with us specifically, we try to focus a lot on just woodsmanship, and I don't know, some people call it the old fashion wave of hunting with a lot of people. We try to interview a lot of older people for that exact reason, like fifty plus, you know, especially like really older people, Like we've had a couple. 00:28:42 Speaker 1: Of eighty year old guys on the podcast. 00:28:43 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I like to think that one day people will look back at that, and it's kind of like an archive of what was hunting like in the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, early two thousands, especially now with how technology is, I mean, who knows what it's going to look like in twenty thirty years, and so I feel like we're kind of preserving that a little bit. 00:28:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, there's never been access to to this type of information before in society, you know, like like that's that's to me, what's interesting about podcasts. I don't take I don't, I like, don't take any any like pride in being a podcaster, Like I don't like to I'm not a podcaster, like I don't. 00:29:22 Speaker 4: I don't. 00:29:23 Speaker 2: To me, that's not a it's like being a used car salesman almost, like I don't. But the access to information and and the the informality of human conversation being recorded is unprecedented. I mean, like all media from all all time has been curated, like like I mean think about the nineteen sixties. You could not have consumed media that wasn't planned intentional. I mean, whether it was a game show or a radio show or tell. 00:29:57 Speaker 1: But like like. 00:29:59 Speaker 2: Inform normal human communication, Like there's something to it. 00:30:04 Speaker 1: That's that's significant. 00:30:06 Speaker 4: Well, that and also not having a time constraint put to it, like if it's on television, you know, depending on what the show is, you know, it might be a quick little interview with somebody for eight minutes and then they're off to the next subject. On podcasts, I mean, you can run as long as you want. We don't do this anymore, but there was times back in the day. We've had multiple five hour long podcasts, Oh my lord, and it was sit down Interviewmaron I mean, and looking back at it, I'm like we were insane. 00:30:30 Speaker 3: I don't know how many people actually got to the end. 00:30:32 Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know, but it's their for them. If they want to go check it out, we'll see, we see a lot of the stuff we did with the podcast was very much for me and Andrew as in like we were curious talk to these people and curious getting some questions answered and learning more about the guests. And it was never so much like, oh, what would do good with the audience, is very much like what would we like to hear and what are we interested in. If the audience mimics that, then great, If they don't that's perfectly fine too, they don't have to. And yeah, it's that's how we've rent it for the last eight and a half years. Now we don't do the five hour podcast anymore, but we have done that in the. 00:31:03 Speaker 2: So, Andrew, how did you get You kind of told us a little bit how you got into us. 00:31:06 Speaker 1: But what career? What obscure careers have you had in your life? 00:31:11 Speaker 5: I mean in college, I just I worked at that bow shop. I did the night shift home depot. 00:31:16 Speaker 1: What'd you go to college for? 00:31:17 Speaker 5: I was trying to go for forestry. Oh, I got a good story for you about that. Actually, I was going to go to Auburn for forestry, and I went to a community college in Birmingham to get all my core class out of the way because it's cheaper and I could live at home. And uh so I was doing that and for summer for forestry at Auburn, you have to do a summer practicum before you go into your junior and senior year. So you go and it's kind of like the like forestry boot camp or whatever. 00:31:40 Speaker 1: And uh it was. 00:31:42 Speaker 5: My last semester before I was supposed to go to practicum, and I had this music appreciation class that I had to, you know, go do because they make you do that. And it was in Turkey season, and uh, I thought the final was on Thursday, and so on Tuesday I went Turkey hunting and then I showed up Thursday and there was nobody there and I missed my final and so I failed and that lowered my GPA and I couldn't get into forestry school. So no, yeah, and then I had to spend a year like taking throwaway classes to get my GPA back up. 00:32:17 Speaker 2: So I just started right there. Who in your life did you have to tell that story to? And they were real disappointed in you. 00:32:23 Speaker 3: My mom, she was thrilled. She was just thrilled. 00:32:27 Speaker 5: So so then when I got to Auburn, they had they just introduced a new program called gs Spatial and Environmental Informatics. Makes me sound smarter than I really am, but it's just GIS maps data in like with forestry and ecology. So I was like, well, I like maps, I'll do that. And I didn't have to go to the summer practicum so I could get back into the school forestry earlier. 00:32:52 Speaker 1: So I went to the School Forestry and did that. 00:32:55 Speaker 5: And then when I graduated, I ended up I was trying to go into some kind of wildlife for forestry related field, and I ended up getting a job doing you know, I called Before You Dig. 00:33:03 Speaker 1: Eight one to one. 00:33:04 Speaker 5: Okay, I was doing that in Alabama, and I was the GIS guy for both. 00:33:07 Speaker 1: Of these guys. Both these guys are into digging. So yeah, I managed a database. I sat behind a computer. Okay, how long did you do that? Like four years? Four and a half years. 00:33:20 Speaker 5: When I got out of college, I started doing that, and that was when the podcast was starting to get serious. 00:33:25 Speaker 1: And I graduated college in twenty twenty. 00:33:27 Speaker 5: And right after I graduated when Jacob quit at his job and started doing the podcast full time. And so I was like, you know what, I'm just going to stay at this job until I can go full time. And so that's what I did, and I went full time last year. Took me a little longer because. 00:33:42 Speaker 2: Like, oh, so you were in full time, you were full time first a couple of years taking it. 00:33:46 Speaker 1: I was thinking it was the other way. Yeah, no, no, no, no, he went full time first, old single prangle man. 00:33:52 Speaker 4: I saved money and I was living dirt poor for a while. 00:33:55 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, that's one thing I was gonna serious. 00:33:57 Speaker 4: Jacob didn't. 00:33:58 Speaker 5: He didn't like not to get in to his finances or anything, but he took how much money do you have, dude? He took a gigantic pay cut. I don't want to say what he made the first two years, but it was not a lot, because I don't even know how he lived on it. 00:34:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, because i'd say considerably at that last job. 00:34:16 Speaker 5: But we're making money with the podcast, but very like not enough money for like. I didn't think either one of us equip but then he just did. I was like, we'll figure it out. Hey, Pembur and JULLI, yeah, that's deer meat. 00:34:30 Speaker 1: I'd marry you for that, man, I mean it. 00:34:32 Speaker 2: You know, some people people talk about people that are in the outdoor industry full time, and there's sacrifices. 00:34:39 Speaker 1: I mean there's been. 00:34:40 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's been good stuff that's happened to y'all that wasn't your fault, you know. I mean, something just good happened on its own. I know that's been the way for me. I can't take credit for being able to do what I'm passionate about, but there are conscious sacrifices that you made that got you where you're at today. 00:34:59 Speaker 4: Well, and that's my We've had conversations with like Couz Strickland. We were talking to him about that, and he's like, everybody, it's in the space. If they started taking it seriously, they had to make some kind of sacrifice, like that is a leap of faith because you don't know. I mean, and I had the confidence. I'm like, if it doesn't work out, I'm just going to go back to doing what I was doing before hanging out. Was good at it and just can get back into that space. But it was one of those things that once you got into it and you started making more content. I'm not saying everybody try to go out and be a content producer or creator, because I don't even think of it that way. I look at like we're trying to add value now to people's lives and help shortened learning curves. That's like really what we're trying to do, and also telling stories and adding some entertainment and mixed into it. But I mean, every time we do this, like we're traveling right now for nine days interviewing a bunch of people, it doesn't really feel like work. I mean, it's a lot of work, especially behind the scenes and the editing and the producing and all that kind of stuff, but we enjoy it, I mean to the utmost degree. And Andrew. So, Andrew, I'm a little bit different. So I'm not married, don't have kids. Andrew's got a kid to your old daughter, and he's been married now for I don't want to put you on the spot because if you might listen to this. 00:36:00 Speaker 5: Episode, like six years, but right around six years, that's good, that's good. 00:36:05 Speaker 4: You know. So he so he was really trying to work with her on making sure that we can get everything taken care of so that he could go full time. And then she was actually just now able to quit her job to be a full time stay at home on which has been awesome. 00:36:17 Speaker 5: Oh that's incredible. Yeah, man, American dream Baby, that's great. 00:36:21 Speaker 2: Now y'all been doing this for eight years together, y'all have navigated partnership. 00:36:27 Speaker 1: I don't I don't really know. I don't I don't I don't know this, but I know this. How how do y'all? Usually partnerships don't work out. 00:36:36 Speaker 2: Usually if like two people go into media together as like, you know, I want to say equals usually that breaks up. 00:36:45 Speaker 3: Anything with more than one. 00:36:47 Speaker 1: Is there any Is there any mediation? 00:36:49 Speaker 2: The reason I bring it up, is there any mediation that you need me and Josh to do? Between guys, I'm going to have you go first. Tell us the thing you hate most about Andre. Now it's a serious question. They have you How do y'all manage us? Just like being partners? 00:37:09 Speaker 4: So we We've heard that from multiple other people in space that have done the same thing. Like, dude, it never worked out. A lot of it I think comes down to personality types and also or both of you bought in to the same level. Because if one's real casual one's trying to take it real serious, it's not gonna work. If both are super serious the point that they want to do it their own way, it's not gonna work. The thing about me and Andrew is it's a mix of like we take this very very seriously, but also like we're both very humble and we'll listen to each other. Like Andrew has plenty of ideas. I'm like, that's fine, Like dude, I'm they don't have to be my way and same thing by versus or vice versa. So I think you have to have that in order to make it, because that is is true. I mean Andrew's wife jokes jokes with us all the time that like it's almost like me and him in a marriage, because like we spend so much time together and working together that like just like a marriage, like you're gonna have arguments and stuff, but you gotta be able to work past it. And same thing with a business partner that you're working a ton with. 00:38:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's trying to what I was about to say. 00:38:01 Speaker 5: It's like a marriage, and it's just like you know, sometimes like I slack and he has to pull the weight. Sometimes he slacks and I have to pull the weight, And you just have to be willing to do that with somebody. Yeah, and be forgiving about it, like whenever the other person messes up or whatever, because I mean eight years, I mean we've had our share of disagreements and stuff. 00:38:18 Speaker 4: But I got a good story on that. 00:38:20 Speaker 1: Oh God. 00:38:20 Speaker 4: So the second time I went to Iowa, okay, I want it theirs. Oh anyways, so this is it was. I was there for fourteen days okay, and completely neglected everything I had to do for the podcast. And Andrew called me a couples and he was living I'm talking about upset man and after because I'm like I was so focused on killing a big buck and I was hoping with my uncle and we were driving me. We were hunting, hunting a bunch of the evening, we were scouting, bird hunting. I got a bird dog. We were hunting quil hunt in the mornings and the deer hunting the afternoons, late season. And when I got back me Andre Andrew had a conversation with me because he's like, dude, you cannot do that, Like that is not gonna fly, Like we can't do this because responsibilities and everything else like that. And really you got to have like a humbleness of like not being super selfish that oh I'm full time now can go a hunt all the time, because that's not the case, Like there's other stuff that has to get done before you ever get in the woods. So yeah, that was a good lesson for me. 00:39:16 Speaker 1: How did you How did you take the rebuke? Did you get mine at it? 00:39:19 Speaker 4: No, not at all, because I'm like it's rightfully so, I mean, if you do that to me, I'd be upset to But I was so hyper focus on hunts like that. That just man, that's what that's. 00:39:27 Speaker 1: That's pretty that's good. 00:39:29 Speaker 5: I mean that your conflict, that's the key right there, because that's one thing about him, Like he's always been like that. And I try to be like that as much as I can. But you know, like if you mess up, just own up to it. Yeah, and that'll get you far. 00:39:40 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:39:41 Speaker 1: You know, whatever you're doing, leave your ego at the door. Yeah. Man, that's great. 00:39:45 Speaker 2: That's like high level humanness for real, just being able to get along with people and and and surprisingly it's difficult for a lot of people. 00:39:57 Speaker 3: I mean, why are you looking at me like that? 00:40:00 Speaker 6: Yeah? 00:40:01 Speaker 2: Sure, the reason I brought these two guys here, so we need to mediate with exactly. 00:40:07 Speaker 1: Thanks for asking. 00:40:07 Speaker 4: Okay, one thing I wanted to bring up just because I thought you'd find it a little interesting. So I actually so, I lived in ourself for four years. I went to see Biaco Academy, really private school up here in northwest Arkansas. And at the time, we had a hunting program. They don't do this anymore, okay, but we could have firearms at school. I was living the dormitories and we could have we couldn't have center fire rifles, but we have twenty twos muzzliters and shotguns and we would go hunt. The school has a bunch of acres. We would go hunt all the time, like I play sports. But was like if I didn't have practice or something, we were going hunting. I got in so much trouble. So one day I was gonna tell you the story. So this is great. So so it's a it's a bendict and monastery. So there's there's monks like at on like campus, I'd have a monastery there. And one of the monks who was overseeing the hunting program, he came to me one day and he's like, hey, y'all want to go rabbit hunting. I'm like yeah. And we had gone rabbit hunt with him with some other guys down the river with some beagles. He's like, well, there we got a bunch of rabbits around the barns on the property. He's like, dude, get your shotgun and get your buddy Marshall, go down there go hunt. I'm like cool. So we go down there with the monk. No, no, he left now, no, no, we'd go unsupervised. Okay, like he just he'ld go check. We'd check out the shotguns whatever, get ammo and walk down. 00:41:28 Speaker 3: To the barn. 00:41:29 Speaker 4: So, but barges are close to the campus. Like bargs are like maybe three hundred four hundred ardsen campus. We go down there and just cotontail rabbits everywhere. I'm just shooting them and they weren't running or nothing like. 00:41:38 Speaker 1: We'd shoot them and then sliding them with a twelve games. 00:41:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, like it was like you just walked her. Anyways, so we got like six or eight of them. I started going around the hill and the schools up on Big Hill. We started going around the hill kind of falling rabbits. We get all the way to like a cemetery right there and killing some rabbits. And at one time I was like, we are very close to school buildings. But it's like guy, it's also it's okay, Like you know, brother Edge said we'd come down here. We end up going back cleaning this, cleaning the rabbits on one of the park benches on campus. Took the shotguns back, put the shotguns away. But sir, cleaning rabbits, we had a lunch lad that would cook us wild game. So they don't do that anymore either. Wow, but like if we think we see you, probably yeah. Well, so we'd run trot lines there. We had a bunch of they had a bunch of ponds that we'd run trot lines on. We flay fish and we'd bring them back in the lunch leaves. We cook it for me my buddies. But the next day I go to class and the principal comes in and me and him were pretty cool, Like I go send his office, talk to him a good bit, and he came in. He's like, hey, Jacob, I need you to come to the office real quick. All right, cool, So I went to the office. I was like, hey, what's going on? And he's like, well, tell me about this rabbit hunt. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, well, I got reports that you were shooting the rabbits on campus yesterday. And I'm like, brother, I kind of went till like brother Edrew told me to do it. You know, I'm like a fifteen, sixteen year old kid at a time, and uh, He's like, yeah, you can't do that. And I lost my hunting privileges for the rest of the year. It was like I've read I think a small game. Rabit season opened somewhere time in October November something like that, and uh lost hunting privileges for the rest of the year and got Saturday attention for it for I think a month, uh Me and Marshall both. But then was got in a bunch of trouble and I was like, come to find out. I learned this later. There was another monk on campus that uh, I don't want to say his name, but anyways, he was going after and feeding the rabbits. Oh brother Adrian, which I'll mention his name. He's a fun he's a fun guy, older guy. Actually he was old when I was there, and he's he's still kicking great guys. A year ago, they weren't getting along, I guess a whole bunch, so we went down there and shot some rabbits that he didn't want rabbits around the barns and stuff like that. 00:43:45 Speaker 1: But it was one on his fellow monk's rabbits. 00:43:48 Speaker 3: But that's why they were just standing Uh yeah exactly. 00:43:50 Speaker 4: They were like, oh, you're gonna come feed me. 00:43:52 Speaker 3: Oh no, we just didn't realize he was gonna feed him a shot. 00:43:56 Speaker 4: Yeah, So number seven shot, I mean yeah exactly. But yeah, we hunted a bunch out there had bows. I had kept my bow in my climber, underneath my bed in my in my dormitory, and all my camo and stuff under there. It was a fun time. 00:44:09 Speaker 1: Wow, Subiaco, we played Subiaco. 00:44:12 Speaker 4: We played Me and a bunch. 00:44:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I broke. 00:44:16 Speaker 4: My actually not wasn't mean Oh, it wasn't meaning. I broke my arm playing football. 00:44:20 Speaker 2: Oh really Yeah yeah, wow, crazy man, good times crazy. 00:44:24 Speaker 1: That's a good story. 00:44:26 Speaker 2: So you guys, uh, you guys were the people that introduced me to Pablo. 00:44:31 Speaker 1: Mmmmm oh yeah yeah, what a what an incredible guy. Uh, I love Pablo. Now did y'all meet Pablo? 00:44:38 Speaker 5: Uh, Pablo kind of like he was talking about, Uh, he got to know all those good deer hunters up where he lives, like Tony Myers, Michael Perry, Daniel Williams, Jamie McKay. 00:44:48 Speaker 1: These are like local legends. 00:44:49 Speaker 5: In Alabama, I mean, just killers and they all kind of live in the same area. Well, those are a lot of the guys that we interview, and we had some mutual friends that also knew him, and we kind of knew of Pablo and then he came to me at the World Deer Expo, like I guess it's three years ago now, that's where I actually met him, met him, and I talked to him for ten minutes. I mean, he had me in tears, just he's hilarious. Yeah, and I was like, we got to do a podcast with you. And then late last year we finally made it happen, and yeah, it was just man, he's so fun. We're gonna take him on a deer trip this year somewhere. Oh we got we got to get him in a deer camp. 00:45:23 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:45:23 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:45:23 Speaker 4: So he's one of those guys that he's so humble because of like where he came from, the opportunities that when he came to the States, he's like he wanted to get into it and it was like just still as a sponge soaking up information. And he's fun to be around because he's super positive no matter how bad the situation is, super positive. Like every buddy Daniel Williams who did the episode with us of Pablo, they hunt a bunch together and they're just telling all these different stories of all these close calls, not like close calls killing animals, but close calls like flipping kayaks over an algadrinfest river and like getting bit by snakes and all kinds of stuff that. I mean, Pablo, he he's such an interesting guy that first off, when we did the episode with him, a lot of people were like, where is he from? Because his Accidenty're like, is he Cajun's he from? Like South Louisiana. I'm like, no, not at all, man, but but yeah, just like a guy like that, it's nice to meet somebody who's, you know, not a younger guy by any means, but is someone who's still so hungry for information and is willing to go out there and grind and go. Like his first couple of years hunting never even solid hear yeah, and like but still kept going. And it's like, man, it's it's amazing to hear those stories. 00:46:29 Speaker 1: He's so respectful that he earns other people's respect. 00:46:32 Speaker 5: I mean, like we've got we know guys who've taken out in the woods, taken him out in the woods scouting, like just trying to show him stuff, and they'll be like, hey, drop a pin on this, like you can come back here, and like Pablo like doesn't even have his phone or something. He's like, I'm not going to steer a spot or anything. Yeah, like just very respect like he does everything the right way and people just appreciate that. And so it like everyone loves Pablo. 00:46:53 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, well he was it was it was cool having him on this podcast. 00:46:59 Speaker 1: So yeah, he was so excited. Man. 00:47:02 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like I called him. I was like, guess he was just asking about you. Man, he was so excited. So yeah, he's a great guy. I love to see it. 00:47:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. 00:47:12 Speaker 2: Who I want to ask both of you a question who and all the people you've interviewed would be like, people ask me this all the time, So it's a fair game. 00:47:20 Speaker 1: Favorite interview you've ever done. 00:47:23 Speaker 5: I think we like, I'm going to take the easy one and just say it's got to be Episode one sixteen with Glenn Solomon. 00:47:30 Speaker 1: Glenn Solomon. Glenn Solomon. 00:47:31 Speaker 5: He's a gentleman from South Georgia and he was one of the guys that kind of showed us what direction we should go in. It was episode one sixteen. I always tell people it took us like one hundred episodes to figure out how to not suck at it. And when we interviewed him, it just like it really clicked and he gave us great information and we started getting success stories from it. 00:47:53 Speaker 1: We started having more success. 00:47:55 Speaker 5: But also right after we interviewed him, he passed away, like three weeks after we release the episod, and so it kind of gave us the perspective of, like, hey, we got to record these people stories and everything, and that that episode kind of changed the game for us, and it kind of gave us a direction that we should go. 00:48:11 Speaker 2: Was he like really technical in the way he described hunting or was he a good storyteller or was he a character? 00:48:16 Speaker 5: He's he's a good old boy character, just South Georgia woodsman. Like he's not talking about like, you know, all this crazy technical stuff. 00:48:24 Speaker 1: That you hear about in like mobile hunting today. 00:48:26 Speaker 5: He's like, man, find you a thicket, get up in there, you know, do whatever you gotta do. 00:48:29 Speaker 1: That kind of. 00:48:30 Speaker 4: Interesting about him. He was a He's one of the only guys we ever met in the Southeast who was successful being a bed hunter for bucks on public land and killing the fire out of bucks because I think it's two state tags you get in Georgia, and then there had bonus buck hunts on different w mas where like you can go for that day or that weekend and get an extra buck tag if you kill one. And he'd kill five mature bucks in one season in Georgia on like four different pieces of public lan and most of them were like bed hunting roughly, but he's. 00:48:58 Speaker 1: Just doing cool stuff. 00:48:59 Speaker 5: Like he was hunt those long leaf pine savannahs where the long leaves aren't super tall yet and all the all the grass underneath him is four or five feet tall, and he would he was talking about taking a barstool in there and sitting on top of a bar stool in the middle of that stuff just so he could barely see down into that grass. 00:49:13 Speaker 1: Wow. And killing deer that way. 00:49:15 Speaker 5: Wow, that's it was just that like ratcheting, uh, small pines together, so get a tree stand on it. 00:49:20 Speaker 1: You know, it's just cool stuff like that. Wow, that's cool. 00:49:24 Speaker 4: And he was also an outdoor writer, so even though he was he had real country drawl. He was very well spoken and his writing style kind of mimicked that, and his family when he passed away, ended up putting a lot of his stories together. He had written for all these articles into a book form, which was really kind of cool. As well. 00:49:41 Speaker 1: It's called hunting on the fly. 00:49:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, but selfishly for me, uh, just so it changed my hunting. Was a gyman. He's a gentleman from Alabama. His name's Ron Waters. Would call him Coach. He's old football and baseball coach in the state. He's in his seventies and he is a turkey killing public land turkey killing fiend. And I learned a lot from him. He was kind of cut from that old school cloth, third generation turkey hunter. His granddad got killed turkey hunting in nineteen thirty nine. Yeah, had a guy killed him on the National Forest with a shotgun mistake temper a turkey. So he's got a ton of family heritage of turkey hunters in the state of Alabama. And his big thing that he really was talking about in the episode with is that was impactful for me is what he calls covert calling, Like, you know, you got all these guys in public land, you know they kill a lot of birds early in the season, being loud and aggressive, but after a certain point like it's not going to work as well, and being a little bit more of a soft caller, being a little more patient can play huge dividends. And I started doing that and it was unbelievable, like a light switch should change for me. So but yeah, so I take a little bit different able. But we've interviewed so many different guys. It's the problem is we've interviewed so many guys at this point, we're at almost I think seven hundreds on the episodes now that it's hard to remember everyone unless we've had him on multiple times. There's some guys we had on, you know, one time five years ago and unless someone brings it up, like I kind of forgot about the episode because. 00:51:02 Speaker 1: We have a lot of that's a lot of episodes. 00:51:04 Speaker 4: Yeah. So it's been amazing though, because again, one thing, especially when it comes to deer hunting, one thing I've learned after we've interviewed so many guys is there's so many different ways to be successful. There are some guys that are big in the sent control. Some guys absolutely don't care about sync control. Some guys are like mo hunting redlines. Some guys like hunting scrapes, and they'll talk like, oh, you can't do this one thing because it won't work, And then we interview somebody who's like, no, that's what I do and have a lot of success. And that's one thing I like about White Tails to me, white Tails specifically, it's so much based on your confidence level and experience that molds you to who you are as a deer hunter, and that's how you kill deer and it's not necessarily like someone else that's out there. 00:51:41 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:51:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I didn't know y'all had that many episodes. 00:51:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah, I think. 00:51:48 Speaker 5: I think today we released six ninety two on the day we're recording this, that came out this morning, so yeah, we're about to hit seven hundred. 00:51:56 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:51:56 Speaker 1: Wow, that's great, man. 00:51:58 Speaker 4: This is one of those things that, like the journeying I really enjoy is just talking to so many different guys from different parts of the Southeast in the experience level, because there's some similarities between guys and there's some that like they're just upbringing is completely different. Like we interviewed a guy in North Carolina last year, Western North Carolina who didn't get into deer hunting until he was I think thirty one, and he's like thirty five. He's killing the fire at a big deer in the mountains. Both of the bow and a rifle, and his background was rock climbing and like and like long distance hiking. Then he took that endurance athlete perspective into white tail hunting and had a really good mentor hunting public land and just took up on it and killing big deer in areas that like aren't they're known for big deer but have very small population size and herd densities. And he's going out there killing big deer every single year, and it's it's amazing, just because you never know who you're gonna talk to and what their background is, because like, I didn't grow up in a hunting family, like my dad specifically never hunted. I got in a hunting through my mom's two brothers and they were big deer hunters, casual turkey hunters, and that's how I kind of get the itch to go hunt. And then went with Super Echo. It was like full fledged, like I can go run wild and go hunt like crazy. And then college it was like exponentially more because I found out about public lan. 00:53:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool, man Bear, Do you have any questions for these guys? 00:53:12 Speaker 3: Mm? 00:53:12 Speaker 1: Where we talk about the Anazik. 00:53:13 Speaker 6: Child, So what are you guys hunting most and he said white tails, But like, what do you do personally like to It. 00:53:22 Speaker 1: Depends on what time of year you asked me that. 00:53:24 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he's in the spring, it's turkey's in the fall, it's deer. But I really would like to kill a bear at some point, so I think I'm gonna try that this year. 00:53:31 Speaker 1: But yes, it's white tails. 00:53:32 Speaker 5: Man. 00:53:32 Speaker 3: Do you guys have a bear season in Alabama? 00:53:35 Speaker 1: Not yet. I think we're getting there. 00:53:37 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're getting close. I've killed a bear, mule, deer. I still love white tails and I love turkeys, like it's one of those things. Like I traveled little bit this year turkey hunting and it was an absolute blast. And my biggest thing is I like the adventure of going other places and seeing new scenery, even if it's the same species. Like we've hunded white toes in Wyoming and it was wild because we're out and it's like finding white tails, getting on white taes, killing white tails, but we're so far twenty nine hours from the house, almost thirty hours from the house, but you're still hunting an animal that acts similar, but the habitat is completely different. And like, I love that aspect of just what we had. The opportunity here in the United States, as you can travel all over the place if you have a little bit of funds and if you want to sleep in your truck for seven days, you can do that and have that opportunity. But yeah, I love white tails. Yeah I've killed one bear in Arkansas. Oh really Yeah, and killed a bear. My brother was going to school up here in college and he started running some cameras on one of the pieces of public up here and he was trying to find deer and ended up just every camera he had in this one canyon system had bears on it. Like every day one of the cameras would have a bear on it. He went out there killed one with his bow. And then I came up here for the Muzzlier hunt and opening day of Muzzlier season, seen two bear, killed one, and had an opportunity at a buck, and I'm like, I know that never happens, Like Clay, your dad told me that as well, because I texted about it. I was talking to Mo about too, and he's like, that does not happen. So I'm kind of just like, I don't know. I want to get back into bear home. The meat was delicious, but it was one of those things that that blew me away because I'm like, I wish we had the opportunity in the Deep South, but uh, we don't have that currently. 00:55:15 Speaker 1: We had a little bit of everything too though. We both have bird dogs. 00:55:18 Speaker 2: Uh what kind of bird dog? I mean, like like for pheasant or ducks or quail. 00:55:22 Speaker 5: He's got a gsp and I've got a small munster lander. And actually yesterday my wife picked up our new English shutter puppy. So really, yeah, just got an English cutter yesterday. 00:55:31 Speaker 1: You gotta train the English setter to quail hunt. Oh yeah, yeah, I actually have wild quail. We have some. 00:55:38 Speaker 5: I actually just joined a hunt club by my house and it's a timber company and they've started doing mitigation areas on it where they're re establishing some bottomland hardwoods and stuff like that. And uh, I keep jumping quail out there. I've been out there a couple of times. I've been jumping them. But we got a lot of woodcock in Alabama. That's our main bird. When when you get a good push of them because they're migratory when they're here, it's awesome when they're when they're not there. 00:56:01 Speaker 4: They're not there, see, and I'd rather travel with my dog. I've gone to Montana of hunter in Iowa, Wisconsin, Wisconsin was fun, Northern Wisconsin hunting grouse, rough grouse, and then eastern Montana was unbelievable. So it's that's the cool thing, is kind of diverse, find what we like to do in small game hunting. 00:56:16 Speaker 6: Two. 00:56:16 Speaker 4: It's like, that's why it's Southern Outdoors, not Southern deer hunters, Southern turkey hunters. It's like there's so many opportunities for being able to be in the woods and hunt. It's like, don't just do one thing. 00:56:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, So so these guys are able to listen to the podcast. So the last the last, well, it was actually two episodes ago, right that we we had the Mystery of America's Oldest Bones, and we had the one filler episode not filler, but we had Lake. 00:56:56 Speaker 1: Pickle and T. L. Jones on Special Remnant and so this one it's coming out then. 00:57:00 Speaker 2: But man, I my wife makes fun of me, like ridicules me for how much I talk about this kind of stuff. But uh, you know the Ice Age Paleolithic people who were the first Americans and now the Anazac child pretty pretty fascinating to me, and I love having really qualified guests like doctor David Melson from SMU. I mean, I don't really know the hierarchy of archaeologists and anthropologists in America, but I mean he's probably at the top of the heap in terms of his specialty, which is the ice age, stone age and like who was here and what they were doing and stone points. But he's a fascinating guy and a really good communicator. It's like, he's really good communicator. And uh so, y'all listen to it. What what stood out to you? What was the most interesting thing or what'd you learn? Or to me, would you be interested in stuff like that? I mean, like when you listen to that, where you're like, oh, this would be cool or it won't be or this boring. 00:58:08 Speaker 4: I didn't know really what it was going to get into and until the conversation really got started. But to me, the most fascinating thing was the ghost gen in South and like I think it was southeast Brazil where they found a gene that connects to or is associated with Australia, but it's not really found anywhere else. In Central and North America. It's like, well, how did that get there? And Andrew's like, maybe maybe those boys did have some boats and some wild boys started paddling. Yeah, But I mean the thing is is, I think everybody, if you, especially if're gonna even if you're not an outdoors man, you're fascinated with how North America got populated and how just these early humans settled all across the globe and specifically across North, South, and Central America. And it's one of those things that's like, there's so many questions because it's so old. And Andrew made the comment about like the the Anziit child when they found it in the sixties with the back ho It's like, we found that, but we can't find evidence a big foot? What's going on? 00:59:05 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:59:05 Speaker 1: That podcast kind of ruined for me even more. 00:59:08 Speaker 5: I'm like, how can we not find sasquatch bones but we can find this fifteen thousand year old bones? 00:59:15 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The the uh, the data points we have seemed so obscure to me that that's what's that's what's so wid. I mean every time that I as I learned about archaeology, which I wouldn't have any formal training in it. So I'm learning all this stuff and I'm always amazed at like some dudes were out digging with a backo and found that, you know, and then all this academic science builds around this like one data point, you know, and it's just astonishing. But going back to the ghost population, Yeah, when I heard that, my first thing was, well, do you think people came over on boats? I actually asked him that, and he was like no, I mean he those a lot of times, those guys aren't always real certain about stuff, but he was so certain about it. I mean, the guys spent his career understanding this stuff. But I mean, basically I understood him to say that we pretty much know when people developed the technology to be able to float across huge oceans, and it was like thousands and thous I mean way before that. But where'd they come from? I mean I told I told somebody. I was like, it may have been by accident. Somebody floated across the ocean on. 01:00:36 Speaker 1: A big log. Yeah, man and a woman. I don't know, you know. I mean, it's like it is such a it is such a mystery. 01:00:47 Speaker 4: No, it is, And that's the fascinating thing about it. And that's why I like, I know a lot of these researchers have up until the data they have now like as much confidence as possible and what they've found. But it's also like the randomness of them finding that child, Like what's what's what's the the stat and the statistic of that actually happened. Like you're just digging one hole, doing whatever kind of expans you're doing, you find that one thing. Oh, it's like and you made a good point about like tilling up like the whole earth and like trying to like what you could find. But it's like it's not it's not possible. Yeah, and you know who knows. 01:01:19 Speaker 2: What and how many if you know, baco operators, how many baco operators could see a stone. 01:01:24 Speaker 3: Exactly, cab exactly and stop and get out and look at. 01:01:27 Speaker 1: It and not have just completely ruined it. 01:01:29 Speaker 3: Yeah. 01:01:30 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:01:30 Speaker 2: So it's just like how many of those things have been ruined or not just not ever not I mean, and and the answer is thousands, And I mean some aren't in existence, Like the bones just were in a place where they decayed and they're just like literally no longer human bones. But certainly there are other human specimens of that age that just never were discovered by science. 01:01:54 Speaker 5: You know, you brought up a good point when he was talking about the the dam builders and the guy found that clothes point. Yeah, and you're like, I bet the dam builders appreciated that, and he was like, no, it didn't disrupt it. But I mean, you hear about that all the time where maybe it's a farmer, maybe it's this or that, but they uncover some bones or something and they just toss it in the river because they're like, I'm not dealing with this. Yeah, you know, because it's true whatever regulations might come with it. So I that's a that's a good point because I always think about that. I'm like, man, there's probably been like the best ones, maybe even but the best sites are probably lost due to things like that, either people not even realizing it or people maybe realizing it and just want nothing to. 01:02:31 Speaker 1: Do with it. 01:02:32 Speaker 2: Well, it's like the the Boneyard guy up in Alaska that's been on Rogan that has this incredible place that's a gold it's a gold mine, literally, and. 01:02:44 Speaker 1: Who knows what's on that place. It just it sounds the guy. 01:02:49 Speaker 2: Possible he embellishes a little bit. I mean he loves to kind of like stir the pot. But I have no doubt that it's an unreal place that for the most part it has not been studied by the. 01:03:03 Speaker 1: Establishment of archaeology. 01:03:05 Speaker 4: Well, and we're I think Rogan has talked about because I've listened to all those episodes, which I can't remember the guy's name, but when he comes on kind of at the end of the year the last couple of years they've done episodes, it's it's a small area that they're excavating. It's I think you said, because only a few acres in size of like all the property guy has, so it's like, who knows what else is out there. 01:03:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's astonishing, It's astonishing. 01:03:26 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:03:26 Speaker 1: I love the subject though. 01:03:27 Speaker 3: For real. 01:03:28 Speaker 5: Every time I find a stone point or a tool or a flake or anything. 01:03:31 Speaker 1: Like that, I just I love that stuff. 01:03:34 Speaker 5: Because we went and found a bunch of arrowheads Mississippi this year back in January on a buddy Var's property, and I mean they're everywhere in that field. You find like a little bitty high spot in that field the Mississippi River drainage, and I mean they're literally everywhere walking around. We're finding little what do they call them, like celts or whatever, like little acts his oh points, like big giant points, little bitty points, and everything in between. And I'm like, these guys are hunting too, like right here and this is where we're like, I'm hunting that tree line over there, and here's this point where some dude was here I don't know, a long time ago. 01:04:07 Speaker 4: The bean field. 01:04:09 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's in the middle of a bean field now, but back then it was like, you know, who knows what even looked. 01:04:13 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, what's that to you? Andrew and the whole in the podcast, anything stand out to. 01:04:18 Speaker 5: The part where the guy was talking about that Clovis discovery at the damn site and he was just saying like, hey, it's out there and if you know where to look, you can find it. And I don't know that just kind of that was really cool to me because I've spent a lot of time listening to that kind of you know subject, and I try. 01:04:37 Speaker 1: To find it, like every time I'm in the woods, I'm looking like if I'm. 01:04:40 Speaker 5: In a creek, if I'm in a field or whatever, And that was just it kind of makes you think there was there's probably I don't know, maybe not talking Clovis, but after Clovis, there's so many people around making stone points, Like there's just no telling how many. I read a I think it was a book one time talking about early settlers in the East and when they started plowing up the first fields, you know, on the edges of rivers, and they were talking about just how many, like they didn't like the arrowheads because like their horses would step on them and get hurt. And they were talking about the big, giant, long flat arrowheads skipped the best on the water. 01:05:12 Speaker 1: And it's like nowadays, you found, you find that you like, frame it, put it in your house, but they're like, oh, it's one of these things skip it. 01:05:19 Speaker 5: So it's like what's been lost, Yeah, that's incredible, or what's on I live next to a lake in Alabama, and all of our lakes are man made flooded, and a lot of those sites are underwater now because they flooded. You know, those the river and creek confluences. And you have a nice little high spot, high flat spot right there. There's almost always a sight on it, and a lot of it's underwater now. Whether you're talking the lakes and rivers in Alabama or the southeast, or even. 01:05:45 Speaker 1: The coast because the ocean used to be lower. Somebody, what's under the air, Yeah, it's cool. Wow. 01:05:51 Speaker 2: You know to me that there was something peculiar that stood out with the Anzik Child because they linked this Stone Age human back to Northeast Asia. And we've all we've always known that, like we've always thought that's where Native Americans came from. But it truly wasn't until twenty fourteen that we were able to actually say, well, modern Native Americans here, they can trace their genealogy back to there, but we didn't know exactly the sequence. So to find this twelvey seven hundred year old human and then go, yep, they came from Northeast Asia was like this confirmation of what we already knew. And this is what stood out to me is that so I randomly talk about that. I don't talk about this a lot. I'm in the process of writing a book. The reason I don't talk about it is because it's so far out it's ridiculous. 01:06:50 Speaker 1: This book will be published in twenty thirty five. 01:06:54 Speaker 2: But there's this idea that this anthropologist came up with back in nineteen twenty six is when he published the paper on this what he called the circumpolar bear cult. Okay, And basically he was studying the people in the boreal forest in the northern latitudes, you know, because I mean, you know, the globe has similar like Asia and North America and even northern Europe all has similar boreal ecology, you know. And as he studied, he was studying bear ceremonialism basically, like how these ancient people interacted with bears. 01:07:35 Speaker 1: And I won't go. 01:07:36 Speaker 2: Into all the detail, but he found oddly peculiar, bizarre similarities in the way that all the people around the earth talked about had stories about had here's one. This will give you one odd, odd example. And all these indigenous stories they talked about how bears sucked their paws in the den to get nurse, to be able to hibernate through the winter. It's just a random thing. He found that all the way around the boreal forest, that's what all the indigenous people kind of were in their lore. 01:08:11 Speaker 1: And basically the circumpolar bear call. 01:08:14 Speaker 2: His thing back in nineteen twenty six was that all these people were connected culturally, even though they would have never It's like, how did the people in northern Europe? 01:08:26 Speaker 1: How were they connected to people in North America? 01:08:29 Speaker 2: And basically the Anazac child confirms that they actually were physically connected. So like the some of the biggest indigenous, the most wild indigenous bear ceremonialism comes from northern Japan. There's these people called the an u Ai Nu, and the stuff they did with bears is just bizarre, raising them in pins and fat and them them out like cattle. 01:09:01 Speaker 1: And they did that in North America too. 01:09:04 Speaker 2: But anyway, when I heard that, like, yeah, these people in America are from Northeast Asia, I was like, I could have told you that because of they all said that that bear suck their thumbs in the den, you know, you know, like you can you can confirm things culturally to anyway, just a long lended way to see. 01:09:21 Speaker 4: I've always been fascinated and there's only so much information out there. I've always been fascinated with their hunting style back then, because you know, he talked about you know that that woman had a like or the dietary. Yeah, yeah, the breakdown was similar to like some kind of cat because they're eating so much, you know, large mammal meat, right, And I'm so fascinated with like how do they hunt? And especially if there wasn't that big of a population of people, how did they keep from getting super injured and just getting killed all the time and be able to populate, Because like that that's something I find super fascinating, just as as a hunter's like how do they bring down some of these large animals, these large mammals. 01:10:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean they probably had a thirty year lifespan, and I mean the population was small. I mean, you know, I mean just think about they don't know, but you know, I mean think about, you know, fifty thousand people spread across all of North America. I mean that's like an incredibly small population of people, but enough to you know, like keep it going if you had a thirty five year lifespan, you know, and and kids were dying and I mean, you know, but. 01:10:31 Speaker 4: Well then also he was saying that there's been no evidence found of any kind of inbreeding or anything like that. You're thinking about if there's like these small person individuals, you know, for a generation, and they're traveling at some point, you think that would happen just because the lack of people, but like again, they haven't found evidence of that, which is fascinating as well. 01:10:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So this is what I was going to say about the ghost population and the study on how much these people were carnivor is so hard. Every time that you learn something, you learn that it's like, but some people don't buy it, Like the whole ghost population. 01:11:11 Speaker 1: There's a whole group of people and. 01:11:14 Speaker 2: I don't know how credible they are that have that thing completely figured out and they believe it's an error in the way that we read genetics. So so like Meltzer who and you know, you can just like kind of trust the expert you're standing in front of it at least that they've like done their homework, and I trust what he says. 01:11:35 Speaker 1: He believes it, he thinks the science is legit. 01:11:38 Speaker 2: There's a point I'm gonna make about what you just said too that I didn't I thought about saying the ghost population, it's there, but there's skeptics. Well, so there was this. So with the Anzac child, these people modern people. Peer The reason I emphasized it was a peer researched academic paper in this reputable journal is that they published it and they did this deep isotope analysis, and basically they said that the you know, they can tell what the mother was eating when it breastfed this child, and that she was a carnivore and that her diet was most similar to the bones of a scimitar cat, which would have been killing large mammals. There's a caveat And I didn't say it on the podcast. Those guys that wrote that paper, as I understand it, sold, they were heavily invested in the Blitzkraig hypothesis that man was very involved in all the Pleistocene extinctions, and basically they used that paper to say man killed out all the big game, which is a political play of just like it's a political environmental about how terrible man is. And anyway, so like, actually, I Meltzer said it, so I can say it. 01:13:09 Speaker 1: I just didn't put it on there. 01:13:11 Speaker 2: He when I told him about that study, he was like, Eh, yeah, they think they know what that mama ate essentially is what. So anyway, so I put it on there because it was so dang interesting and there are legitimate people that think it's credible. But anyway, it's just like when you're talking about and I think This is what's most fascinating because. 01:13:31 Speaker 1: I love it. 01:13:32 Speaker 2: I think what I find interesting in modern times is kind of our hubris of how smart we think we are. And then and then when you really dive into stuff, you realize even in modern times, we can fly. 01:13:46 Speaker 1: To the moon. 01:13:47 Speaker 2: We know about the rings of Jupiter, but you know, as Barry Lopez says in his book Arctic Dreams, we know more about the rings of Jupiter than we do nar Waals, like, there's all these things that we like, we don't really know. And when you're talking about deep human history, man, a lot of times we're just kind of guessing, yeah, that's I love that because mystery remains in the earth. I mean, it's like we hadn't figured it all out. But that's what I like about a story like the Anzik Child is just like the mystery of it. 01:14:18 Speaker 3: I was fascinated by hearing the whole thing and the grand scheme of things, of what made those people migrate so fast, you know what I mean against the odds. I mean, it was not a favorable environment to be able to migrate across this vast amount of land, and just you know, it didn't seem like there was a shortage of food. Didn't seem like there was a shortage of places to live. What caused them to move across the country so fast? You know? And like doctor Meltzer said, he's like, our job as archaeologists is to make huge assumptions on very little evidence, you know, and it's it's it's it kind of blows your mind to think about. But it happened, you know what. I mean, we have evidence that there were people all over at this at this point in time, and I just I find the idea of humans moving down the Pacific coast very interesting during the ice age there. That was Yeah, I mean just try to imagine that. 01:15:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I said on that podcast, and obviously I didn't. I said it kind of tongue in cheek in a way, but I said, what if there's a technology one day in the bones of humans that will tell you their motivation? 01:15:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like like because if. 01:15:41 Speaker 2: You would have said one hundred years ago that you could in someone's bones, yep, be able to know what their mother ate when they when you were breastfat, I mean it's like you would have been like that's witchcraft. 01:15:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and and uh. 01:15:59 Speaker 2: Who who knows the thoughts of our mind. Like you know, stress can cause you to die, Happiness can cause you to overcome actual physical elements and live longer. Maybe that's inscribed in our bones. Yeah, and one day they'll be able to be like hmm, it looks like Andrew's DNA looks like he had a bump of stress in twenty seventeen when two. 01:16:21 Speaker 5: Years had a bump of stress with Jacob went to Iowa with us. 01:16:26 Speaker 1: That'd be like hmm. 01:16:27 Speaker 2: It appears that if a business partner went on very uncalled for absence. 01:16:34 Speaker 1: Looks like it happened in the fall. Oh Man. 01:16:38 Speaker 5: On the migration thing too, by the way, something my brain just kind of ties. 01:16:42 Speaker 1: It back to that. 01:16:43 Speaker 5: They think that the people moved across this big, giant landscape and like relatively a short amount of time talking Alaska to the southern tip of South America, and you just think about those people migrating and moving. It's not the same people you know that walk from Alaska, but through generations they were in you know, rainforests, deserts, yep prairies, rocky mountains and it's just all the different places. It's like imagine if you were one of those people that was nomadic and migratory and you went from like Montana. 01:17:14 Speaker 1: To Mexico or something in your lifetime. 01:17:16 Speaker 5: Just the amount of change and the animals that you'd be hunting, the habitat that you'd be living in, the scarcely of resources between, you know, if you're in the Pacific. 01:17:25 Speaker 1: Northwest versus the desert, right. I don't know, that's fascinating to me. 01:17:29 Speaker 6: Do they have any idea of how many generations it took for them to get from Alaska to South America? 01:17:34 Speaker 2: I asked Meltzer and we just kind of passed over it real quick. But I initially said did they do that in like a couple of generations? And he said no, no, no, no, not a couple And I said five thousand years And he's like, oh no, no, no, way faster than that. I mean, you get the I got the impression it is a couple hundred years. 01:17:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. And That's what I'm getting at too, is like that's not a long amount of time. 01:17:55 Speaker 3: Really, No, especially when you don't know where you're going. 01:17:58 Speaker 5: You don't know where you're going and you don't have have like a headlamp or anything. 01:18:03 Speaker 6: Is there a lot of evidence stacked on like the Panama Canal there, because I mean, like so many people, like everybody would have funneled like deer hunting. 01:18:11 Speaker 1: That's where you put your staff. 01:18:14 Speaker 3: If you were man hunting. 01:18:17 Speaker 4: Hunting, imagine when they were cutting the Panama Canal in anything they might have found it just like disregarded, yea, all that excavation. Yeah, I mean, in all honesty. I mean that's a great point. 01:18:27 Speaker 2: Bear Well, I mean, but in the tropics, everything just I recycle so quickly. Only thing that would have been left would have been lithic points, you know, stone points. But I thought it was fascinating when he said that in Europe we have just copious amounts of maybe not copious, but like there's lots of ice age, human remains, animal remains in uh In Metin Aaron, a former podcast guy. 01:18:55 Speaker 1: He said that. 01:18:58 Speaker 2: They have all kinds of human masted on kill evidence in Europe, but here we have very little. And basically Meltzer said, well, it's because there were so many people there, like Europe was, there were way more people there than there were here. 01:19:16 Speaker 1: But I mean it's just I don't know what it is. I mean, we all know what it is. 01:19:20 Speaker 2: Because we all feel it like people that are connected to the land, especially through hunting. When you think about North America from Alaska to Florida, from from you know, northern Canada down into you know, Old Mexico, they're being like five thousand people on the continent. I mean, it's just like it's just hard to hard to fathom. Yeah, hard to fathom. 01:19:43 Speaker 5: But what everything even looked like too, because one thing he said that kind of caught me off guard was that that that those artifacts are below like nine meters of dirt. 01:19:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, we're. 01:19:56 Speaker 2: Not going to be finding many of these, you know, I mean, that's insane talking about people navigating the landscape. This book, I'm reading a book called or I read a book called Arctic Dreams. It's about the Arctic and they he was talking about how when the Westerners came to the Arctic and engaged with what they now call Inuits, at the time they called them Eskimos. Still some people call them eskimos. He called them eskimos. In the book, he said that the Westerners felt like the Inuits didn't have a good sense of direction because when they would talk to them. They would be like, hey, how do you get from here to here? And the language differences, like they could interpret what was being said, but the way they thought about the landscape was so vastly different than the Europeans that they had a hard time communicating. But in the book, he shows a modern map of this intricate peninsula that's surrounded by the ocean, and it looks like southeast Alaska or something with like just unreal coastline. And they showed a real map of this peninsula, and then they show a map of a hand drawn by memory map drawn by an Inuit man sometime in the eighteen hundreds when a guy just said, hey, draw me a map of and this is like a fifteen hundred mile long area in the in the the accuracy of the hand drawn map by memory, it was unreal. I mean, it looked almost the same. 01:21:46 Speaker 1: I mean. 01:21:47 Speaker 2: And my point is when people are turned loose on the land people that I mean, we've lost so much. I mean, the human ability to navigate land, to find food, to understand natural systems. 01:22:06 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just unreal. 01:22:08 Speaker 2: But just thinking about, you know, it'd been interesting if you could have asked these people generations later who were in South America draw a map of this continent from the stories of where you came from. I bet they could draw pretty decent. I bet they would draw a big land mass that got real skinny and then open back up. I mean, because that's what they would have known that, you know, they would have known there's an ocean over there and an ocean over here and anyway, just all that's so fascinating. 01:22:39 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I was actually talking to some guys about this previously that with the implementation of newer technology in the lastly fifteen twenty years, truly how bad not everybody, but a lot of people's memory is because you don't have to remember as much as previously just where I'm like growing up and remember phone numbers. Yeah, now it's like on your phone and like you just don't even think about You just click it and go to their name, their contact, and it's like imagine like those everything was by memory, and it's like it's something that like it's hard to like even think about of how good probably their memory had to be in order to not only navigate, but also communicate with younger generations of where they've been, where they're going and things around them because it's all memory. They didn't have any other way to you know, document it. 01:23:25 Speaker 2: I think that's probably a modern purpose person's biggest achilles heel. 01:23:30 Speaker 1: What if all the contacts in your phone got erased? Just like how would you call your wife? 01:23:37 Speaker 4: You know? 01:23:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, yeah, we don't remember. That's that's a good example. Yeah, well, hey guys, we've been uh, we've been going for an hour and twenty two minutes. Any closing thoughts. I really appreciate you guys coming up here. 01:23:52 Speaker 3: Nothing. 01:23:52 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't really have any other than it's great to kind of see the studio now and spend some times with you guys, because I mean, the thing is, it's all awesome when you know we could see each other maybe once a year or something like that, but also be able to spend some time together and get everybody's different thoughts on like topics that we've discussed. I love this is the reason why I love podcasting is because it gives you a chance to express this that you know you might not be able to do in other settings and be able to document. So no, we would just appreciate it. 01:24:17 Speaker 1: Clay, Yeah, man, Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't. I don't have much to add to that. I appreciate it's really cool to be say something, maybe a little more. 01:24:25 Speaker 3: Church it up a little yeah, church it up a little bit. 01:24:27 Speaker 4: I don't know. 01:24:27 Speaker 1: I'm just happy to be here. 01:24:30 Speaker 2: Thank you guys for coming. Southern Outdoorsman Podcast episode. We're on episode six ninety two out here. Yeah, so these guys have been pounding it out. 01:24:40 Speaker 4: You know. 01:24:41 Speaker 1: We got a bunch more to do this week too. Yeah. 01:24:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the that's the oneture going this week. 01:24:47 Speaker 4: Uh, we're gonna go to Missouri for this, So we'll be in Missouri for a handful of days and back to our sol interviews with more guys as we're heading back south. 01:24:53 Speaker 5: Okay, then a two week break and then we're hitting the road going up the Eastern seaboard. 01:24:58 Speaker 4: Yep. 01:24:59 Speaker 1: Awesome, man, Well, thank you guys for coming. Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears do