00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Neukleman. This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f h F Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the place as we explore. Ready to go, and just like that, here we are. We have we have a we have a very We've got a great group of people here today to talk about. 00:00:55 Speaker 2: We're gonna we're. 00:00:55 Speaker 1: Gonna spend a lot of time talking about two things. I want to talk about my goat hunt in Alaska. We had a film come out just this week on the Media YouTube channel, and I want to give some behind the scenes. I have some props. Oh and I kind of have a big story to tell that the film just couldn't tell. 00:01:14 Speaker 3: Man. 00:01:14 Speaker 1: Is as much as you would think that the medium of video would be the primary way to tell a story is not at all. Video is all hype and fluff. Who writing and podcasting is the way you tell a story? 00:01:29 Speaker 3: What do you think, Malco, I think you could throw in storytelling? 00:01:32 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, but what in what form? 00:01:35 Speaker 3: Audio audio talking, yes, podcasts, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess I'm not sixty three. You know. 00:01:42 Speaker 2: Sometimes sometimes when I'm talking to older people, I tell them we have an internet radio program. 00:01:48 Speaker 1: Yeah. I've explained it to many people that have been on Bear Grease. It's kind of like a radio show, but it's on the Internet and you listen to at anytime. But so, so, we made this big video about my goat, and I'm going to talk about that. But secondly, we're going to talk about a podcast that I think when when when I heard the what our production team at media finished up, Like me and Josh work on the nuts and bolts and content, like we script Bear Grease in our minds and then we basically give our design to the production team that makes it, and so you know, we hear kind of with imperfection, what we think it's going to sound like, and then when we hear it, it's like like pops And I feel like this is one of the best Bear Grease of all time period. That's my personal personal I just I just loved it. 00:02:44 Speaker 4: I like the name of it. It kind of matches that the incredible life of Fellas Bell. It was it kind of felt like a Hollywood like one of those fantastical. 00:02:54 Speaker 1: Extra So we're going to talk about that. So we have doctor mister Nukem so great to see. Beautiful scarf. 00:03:01 Speaker 4: Thank you, my daughter got this for me. 00:03:03 Speaker 1: Recent we have Josh Lambridge film career see Josh, Me and Josh Rode. Twenty five miles on mules the last two days. Hog hunting for another day. 00:03:13 Speaker 2: And for a guy who doesn't ride mules, that's a lot. 00:03:16 Speaker 1: For another day. This saddle, don't don't for a second, which camera, don't for a second think that this saddle is just for show cult. George made that saddle for me in Wyoming and there was a hog laid over that. 00:03:30 Speaker 3: Yep. 00:03:31 Speaker 2: There's blood on the other side. 00:03:32 Speaker 1: Of blood on this thing. Yeah, this was This was twenty five miles in the back country two days ago and then mules. 00:03:39 Speaker 2: Honestly places I didn't think you could ride anything. 00:03:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, we were some wooly places. Yep, Josh. But hey, guys, that's a different story. Sorry goats. In the Extraordinary Life of Mister Ellis got bar John Neukomb Yep, glad to be Bear's got some big films coming out from me. Me and jannist bout tell us have a have a a constant years long back and forth about semantics between whether what we make is films or episodes. I believe I make films, right, Yannis says, Clay, you don't make films, you make episodes. Episode. What I mean, like when we make these meat Eater with basically anything that goes on meat Eater because Yannis has stuff on either, I have stuff on either. I say, great film, Yannis, like when one of his stuff and he goes, Clay, I don't make films. That was just an episode. I feel like his stuff is episodes. Your stuff is films except the Bears Road Takespeare. My point exactly, I said, Yannis, I'm an artist. 00:04:46 Speaker 3: See I determined it by time. Yeah, episode is like twenty minutes to forty five minutes. Anything longer than forty five minutes a film. 00:04:55 Speaker 1: Well, okay, then I make episodes a legitimate claim. 00:05:00 Speaker 2: Think that's a legitimate claim. 00:05:01 Speaker 1: It is what I said. Yeah, it's all it's all about the genre you're inside of, because like all these like the yetty short films are like eight minutes long, and they're and they're they call them films. It actually is a. It's it's semantics that revolves around the artistic quality of the said thing, like it's intent. It's kind of like, hey, are we grilling burgers? Are we making steaks? Were making an episode? Or we're making a film? Okay, So me and Yanis have this this I call it films. Yannis is an artist. He is literally an artist. Yes, so but he Bear guy, he is. I wish he could be on the Burgers founder. 00:05:42 Speaker 3: Uh. 00:05:44 Speaker 1: Bear has multiple films coming out in the next couple of weeks, the debut film, debut films that that he's in. That that are gonna be really great. Uh. We have doctor Malachi Nichols here. Hey, me and Josh, we are talking about you or history on the Burgrease podcast. Literally, were you on the first burgash Render. 00:06:07 Speaker 3: I believe that I was on the first like six man? Yeah? 00:06:10 Speaker 1: Oh really yeah? 00:06:12 Speaker 3: And check j just clear or something back? Jack, just clear. I just got the email. 00:06:21 Speaker 5: Heavily weighted with doctors today we are we are heavily wing of the crew. 00:06:26 Speaker 2: Here have legitimate doctorates. 00:06:29 Speaker 1: Doctor Malakai Nichols, doctor nukelem Ye, and then. 00:06:34 Speaker 2: Illegitimate Clay. 00:06:38 Speaker 4: He wants to he wants to put himself in in here with us and say, I am a doctor. He went through the Gary Nukelems school. 00:06:45 Speaker 1: Well, I mean I am. 00:06:46 Speaker 3: I am. 00:06:46 Speaker 1: I do have a pH d in the Gary Newcomb School of Hunting hard knocks and if anybody has that, yes, that's all I got, though, that's all I got. No, it's it's good to have you, doctor Nichols, very to have you. So when I tell us what your doctor's in, I have a PhD in education policy education. What does that mean? 00:07:10 Speaker 3: I can essentially like I'm trained to be able to evaluate educational programs and educational policies and give color to the black and white numbers around research. 00:07:25 Speaker 1: Nice and you're a squirrel hunter. 00:07:27 Speaker 3: I am a squirrel hunter. 00:07:28 Speaker 1: It's real serious. 00:07:30 Speaker 3: Boys are squirrel the other day. I have to tell this. I have to tell the story. So we have like a yearly was it New Year's Day squirrel hunt with the Newcombs. And this is year two for my boys and we go out squirrel hunt. They love it. Took my youngest he's two this year old, this is four. So like a week later after the squirrel hunt, we're like preparing for like family golf, like going out to play golf, which is a big deal. It was a big deal. Once a week we usual the play off as a family. My wife included my oldest looks at me and goes, dad, you know, squirrel hunting is funner than golf. I don't want to talk about it about true story, true story. 00:08:16 Speaker 1: Dad. 00:08:16 Speaker 3: You know, squirrel hunting is funner than I love it. So we only did. We only did squirrel hunting for two mans. That was it wrapped up. 00:08:28 Speaker 1: I would make an I would make a shirt. 00:08:31 Speaker 2: Squirrel hunting is funner than golf. 00:08:33 Speaker 3: Dad. 00:08:33 Speaker 1: Quote Dad, squirrel name underneath it. Oh my gosh, that is funny story. I think you've been holding that back for me. I have you knew that it would cause too much? 00:08:44 Speaker 3: It would like increase the level of influence of hunting inside of my children's life. My boys have camo before I've I've had camo. 00:08:54 Speaker 1: It's how serious. 00:08:55 Speaker 3: It is so serious. 00:08:57 Speaker 1: Wow, that this is major. I had no idea. Well, I'll tell you I will handle I'll handle this responsibly. I may pitch in a few bones to the golf. They'll be when I'm talking to him, I'll be like, hey, golf's pretty fun too. 00:09:11 Speaker 3: With your dad. 00:09:13 Speaker 1: It'll be like you sure what your hangle? That is super funny. So this week on the YouTube Media YouTube Media channel, we came out with my Alaskan goat film Mountain Goat, which is I was in Alaska in mid August of twenty twenty four with my friend and guide David Bennett's. David is a is business called Stay Keen Guide Service and he is I've known David for like over a decade through bear hunting magazine stuff, so we kind of had this relationship. But he was the guy went wolf trapping with a couple of years ago, well last winter, and David is he is just a bad to the bone Alaskan guy. I could tell stories about David that just I'll tell you one. He he multiple times he's a veteran bow hunter and he's he's killing boon and Crockett animals with his bow up there in Alaska, and he wanted to kill a boon and crocket cariboo. And he flew into this place and for the for the super cub, all that they could carry was you know, X amount of gear in him and make it out there and then make it back. And so he had limited amount of gear he could take. Went on this solo hunt, carried twelve days worth of food and gear. That's all he had. But he had, but he planned to stay just like as long as it took. So on day twelve, when he ran out of food, he just like he stayed out there without food and just killed grouse and ate berries and drank water out of the creek for nine days and finally killed this huge caribou. I mean, that is why when I. 00:11:06 Speaker 2: Was killing what's up? What was he killing to eat daily grouse? 00:11:10 Speaker 1: Grouse? Yeah, he was shooting grouse with his bow and cooking grouse over a fire and heat for nine days. That's what he did. And I mean he'll tell you that story like and like not even think it's cool, you know. And he does some really elongated moose hunts, like floating like one hundred and fifty plus miles solo in a raft down uh rivers and after after big moose. I mean, the guy just every time you around him, he'll just tell you a story that you just are like, are are you kidding? But he's been he's living like he's fifty seven, lived in Alaska's whole life, his entire life has been a commercial fisherman guide and professional trapper, and uh, you know on this mountain goat hunt mountain goats male like I live in the roughest wildest places is in North America, like period they live, and it's like that there's this like trophic scheme of where animals live based on elevation and food and whatnot, and the mountain goats just learned. I mean, their strategy is to live in the places where predators can't go because it's just too rough and cliffy, and so they're living in these like wild places. And I started that story to tell something else. So essentially, when you go hunt a mountain goat, you're going into the roughest spots in North America to get them. David Bennett's is twelve years older than me, and he was in better shape than me. And I was working pretty hard to be in shape. And I had some people ask me like what I did, And I'm not like an ultra athlete or anything, but I do work to stay in shape. And essentially, for six months, I was pounding the StairMaster with a pack with a pack on, like a weighted pack, just trying to just build up my legs. You know, yeah, i'd see you in the gym with like a camo backpack, but like it's probably hauled out like a bunch of dead animals, and you're like on the StairMaster, like walking with all these old men. 00:13:25 Speaker 4: Well, I think i'd like to It actually became a subject of family memes. We sent them around because the gym we go to is not like a back hunter's gym, and so like there's all these people there, they've got their fancy gear and then there's Clay running around with this nasty old backpack. It's pretty funny to us, and so we started sending the memes and we have our own little Clay doesn't know it. There's a little thread without them, and there's we have all sorts of funny statements about you know, it was veratful, very flattering, I think, like just about being. 00:14:00 Speaker 1: But I have a weighted vest. It's like a it looks like a swat team. 00:14:05 Speaker 3: Like it's supposed to be there. 00:14:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, you just looked like a homeless guy. 00:14:12 Speaker 3: Yeah gym fails. 00:14:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I often wondered what people thought. 00:14:19 Speaker 4: Just your kids, just your kids, I mean you're. 00:14:22 Speaker 1: Like, oh, I'm sure other people thought. I had a conversation. One guy at the gym was like, that's a sweet backpack and uh and I could tell he was kind of like, what are you doing? And I said, yeah, yeah, I said, I said, I'm actually going on a hunt in Alaska. And so I put Wade in this thing and training trying to get walk up mountains. And he was like, for real, And. 00:14:46 Speaker 2: You know, there's like in my neighborhood. I can tell he's going on the trip because he's been hiking with a backpack all around. 00:14:52 Speaker 1: You need to ask him where he's going. 00:14:53 Speaker 2: I know, I need to ask him. 00:14:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I said, I'm hunting mountain goats and he was like, what, what's a mountain goat? And you know, I told him, like I don't know if he thought I was like not like mine thought it was the crazy guy that was just like making stuff up. But anyway, next time I see him, I'm gonna be like, hey, you want to. 00:15:13 Speaker 2: Watch this film in front of your stair mask. 00:15:17 Speaker 1: So the mountain goat so so. But David is just an incredible guy. There was a little part on the film where it kind of did like a bio piece on David and uh it was. It was interesting. He when he was a senior in high school, he graduated high school and he had a commercial fisherman take him back into a cove and leave him for three months with about one hundred traps, and uh and he he he stayed out there for three months and trapped. He he's he's a guy, He's the heck of a guy. And uh so my strategy on the film or on the hunt was just to was to try to kill a mountain goat with a bow, which to me would probably been the most challenging hunt that I would have done. And Frank Noska is a veteran, probably one of the most decorated bow hunters in the world. In turn, you won't see him on films and stuff, but he's he's done the Grand Slam, the Archery World Grand Slam, killing all twenty seven big game species with a bow for sure twice, and probably working on his next grands. I mean like he's like the one of the Michael Jordans of bow hunting guy that you wouldn't see on any films. I don't I don't know that there's a film about Frank Noska, but I had seen an art episode. There might be an episode about there was. I saw him in a picture one time of him with a with a goat, and he was dressing a fully white suit with little ears on his hat. And so I had Josh Landbridge billmaker, make me a goat hat. 00:17:04 Speaker 3: And uh. 00:17:07 Speaker 1: I messaged frankn Osca and I said, hey, yeah, I'm monster. Our biggest mistake was making those horns that big, which was a well Frank. I messaged Frank and I said, hey, tell me about decoy and these goats. So Malachai, you dress up like a goat. 00:17:25 Speaker 4: I think everyone dresses left like a goat, do they? 00:17:27 Speaker 3: No? 00:17:27 Speaker 4: Okay, so. 00:17:30 Speaker 3: Frank. 00:17:32 Speaker 1: But these goats are in such remote places that anything when they see something white, they just think it's a goat. And and so I asked Frank about it, and he said he gave me some advice. He said, when you see goats that you can't stalk using train, Typically you would use terrain to stalk the goats, like you'd get behind rocks or the hill would roll and they'd be down at the bottom and you could pick over and shoot. But it's so open in some places you can't stalk goats because like they just can see you. You know, you're one hundred yards away and they're just like standing there looking at you. So that's when you use a decoy suit. And he said, he said, just start moving towards them, and if they see you and act nervous, he said, just stop. He said, just lay down for an hour. Just just wait and eventually they get okay with you and you just kind of move towards them and just evaluate like their response to it. 00:18:27 Speaker 3: Uh. 00:18:27 Speaker 1: So that's part one. 00:18:29 Speaker 3: I want. 00:18:30 Speaker 1: I wanted, And so me and Josh made this, which this is a leafy suit, but we we spray painted at white and so it has h y'all want me to put this on, don't you? Oh, we spray painted at white. I'll just put on the top. So there's the bottoms. But this is a first light leafy suit that we that Josh actually spray painted and it made the perfect like textured. Most of the guys where like a like a painter suit, which they work good, but let me tell you what works better. This surprised we didn't catch you in the gym wearing that too well before I got kicked up. 00:19:15 Speaker 4: I definitely I definitely have pictures of Clay. There's a picture that I was going to meet someone. We were going to a coffee shop to do some work, and I said, I'll be there in twenty minutes. And anyway, I think Clay was going to come and he was going to drop me off and go do something else. And I texted her a picture of Clay talking to River and her friends in this outfit. And I just text her that picture because they were all eating dinner at our house and I came down the stairs with my you know, all my stuff, and I look and there's Clay dressed in this outfit. We're supposed to leave. He's dressed this outfit and he's got his hands up like this, impersonating I guess a mountain and a scared mountain goes. I don't know, he's got his hands up like this. And so I just took a picture and I sent it to her and I said, hey, I came downstairs to this, So I think I'm going to be a little late. I'm pretty proud of that suit. 00:20:04 Speaker 1: I am. It was, it was, it was, It worked really great. And so on on day four, Malka of this hunt, and I could I don't know y'all cue me up if there's I just kind of wanted to give a behind the scenes look at the hunt. A lot of people ask questions about the goat suit, and but I mainly want to talk about the recovery, So bear if you have questions. 00:20:27 Speaker 4: Hey, can I add something about the recovery that happened before you left? Okay, So, before Clay left are we were at church and our pastor said, Clay, let's all pray for Clay, pray for his safety while he's out there. And I was like, huh, that's an interesting thing to say. He's never said that before on any of Clay's. 00:20:48 Speaker 2: And he's a veteran hunter and he's. 00:20:50 Speaker 4: A veteran hunter. Yeah, and and uh and maybe Clay wasn't even I can't remember if Clay was there or if he'd already left. When he's like, Okay, Clay's on that on that mountain go hunt. Let's everyone this week you'll just be praying for clay safety. And I was just like, well, that's interesting. I mean, that kind of stuck in my mind. And then we hear this story of this retrieval. 00:21:18 Speaker 1: So on the goat Malachi, I was able to get within seventy yards it by using terrain, So I mean you could have just had like normal camera on and got to within seventy yards. I really needed to be inside. I wanted a forty yard shot, but really needed to be inside of fifty for being comfortable with a bow, and so at seventy yards, I essentially just stood up in my goat suit and just walked straight towards him without anything between us and the goat never directly even looked at me. They have eyes on the side of their head, like a prey animal, and so they can see like way further behind them than we can, and the goat would just like turn its head just a little bit. I could tell it was looking at me out of the corner of its eye, but never even directly like looked at me. And basically I just walked into forty yards with this hat on and walked into forty five yards, and I was just like, this is this is it? I mean, this is as close as I need to be and drew back shoot the goat. The goat, when you shoot an animal with archery equipment, they typically they don't go far, but they run. Yeah, you don't just drop them the goat. Goats are always within running distance of some terrible, nasty, cliffy rocky stuff. That's their escape strategy, like if a wolf had come up there for a grizzly like, They're always like not far from being to something crazy. This goat was out in the middle of what looked like a pasture. It was real steep, but it was I mean, you could have seen this goat for like, well, we saw the goat from a long ways away. It was like, well, there he is, right out in the middle of that face. Then we got in real close and I stalked around to the goat and when I shot it, it went right towards the cliffy stuff that was right there, and it you can see it in the film. It beds down on this big snow bank and it's still alive. I put another arrow in it and it's just SLID's off. The mountain just goes down and I can't see it. We go down and the goat is like one hundred and fifty feet down, wedged underneath this huge block of ice. And again this I'm not even gonna describe it. You can just watch the film and I can get down when we finally see the I can get down fairly safely to within about fifteen feet of the goat and it David is there, Dirt Myth, the cameraman, legendary cameraman, Garrett Dirt Myth Smith is there. And this is what I couldn't say on the film is that David said, guys, this is not a goat that we can recover essentially, and and and. 00:24:22 Speaker 2: Just because of the precarious. 00:24:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and he he he warned us. He said, guys, this is the kind of stuff that when you when you fall, they don't recover your body. He said that to us. He was just like because he knew we me and Dirt were very motivated to get that goat, and he was doing his job of just saying, he said, we'll just that happens in goat hunting. Sometimes you shoot a goat that you don't recover because it just just falls into the abyss. Yeah, and that's terrible like that. In hunting like such a there's such a high priority put on recovering the animal and taking the meet out. 00:25:00 Speaker 3: I mean, like. 00:25:01 Speaker 1: Period, that's what we all want to do. And so we're very motivated to get this goat. We can see it and it's lodged up under this ice. And David and again this at this point, we weren't even thinking about filming. I mean, the film is like, we're not even making a film anymore. We're trying to survive. Dirt's camera is like way up on the mountain and here we are down here, you know, having this little discussion while in dirt. Basically, well, I get down and there's like this little shelf about as big as a car hood that I'm very safe on. But it took I had to climb down one hundred and fifty feet through this little drainage. You can see it on one of my you can see it on the film. It doesn't look near as precarious as it was. Josh is a skier, and he knows that when you take ski videos they always look yeah. 00:25:51 Speaker 2: You know, you think I just skied them some of the crazy Steve, and then you see the video it's like, oh, a toddler could have walked across that. 00:25:58 Speaker 1: This this this took every bit of everything I had to get down to here. But but I was safe and I felt like I could get back up. That's the problem with this kind of stuff is you might be able to go down something, but you got to come back up it. And so I'm sitting there, see the goat, Dirt's here, and Dirt, myth is a just he is a savage of a man. He's Dirt's probably like my height, probably like five ten ish, I don't know. And that's pushing it. And uh, he's a veteran rock climber. Steve Varnella calls him a world class hiker. He's just strong. He's raised on a ranch in Montana, and it's just an incredible guy. And and Dirt is as Dirt's brother is a professional rock climber. And Dirt has done some trips that just will blow your mind about rock climbing. So he knew his way around rocks. We had one little bit of rope and Dirt says, hey, I think I can get to that goat and put a rope on its horns. And he said, here's what you do, Clay. He said, you stay up here on this flat spot and blay me off of ballet means put a kink in the rope off of a rock. 00:27:15 Speaker 2: And he's like to use as a brake. 00:27:17 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he ties this little nylon rope like around his waist in a special knot, and and he's not using he's not putting his weight on the rope. He's the rope is just like safety. Like if he falls, then all his weight would be on it, and I'm I would then be the one holding it. And the the blay rock is not good like it's it's rounded, and so I keep saying, Dirt, this this rock. I said, what if the rope slips over the top, And he said, man, if you just keep pressure on it, it won't. He just understood the physics of it. He's like, the smallest amount of pressure is going to keep it from slipping over. And I'm just like, okay, man, And you see it in the film. I say, Dirt, if you have any reservations about doing this, don't do it. And while he's like tying it on, he says, oh, I have reservations. 00:28:09 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:28:13 Speaker 1: And what you can't see in the film is that like this is like the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. I mean for real, like no acting, no, like we weren't. It was just I was petrified. 00:28:27 Speaker 3: What's the time frame like from shot second shot to like him putting on the rope. 00:28:34 Speaker 1: Two hours, yeah, to. 00:28:36 Speaker 4: Get down there and get set up, and him coming back up. What's the time? 00:28:39 Speaker 1: I mean, do you even know? Two and a half hours? Three hours? It was like a three probably a three hour window, and in the film that's like four minutes. So it's like this build up. There was a lot of us talking about it with David, like how are we going to get down there? And him okay o. The other thing that he did that he would tell us later is that is that he he reached his wife who was back home, and said, David said, stay by the phone, stay by your phone, don't leave the house, and have the coastguard on dot justike, look up the coast not the coastguard. Look up the Yeah, the coast guard, the coast Guard, that's what because it was that's the he said, look up their number and just be ready. He said, don't leave the house until you hear from me. Stay by your phone. 00:29:35 Speaker 3: He had that. 00:29:35 Speaker 1: I mean, he David was worked up about it. But David also he trusted Dirt. He trusted us to not do something stupid. And so this we would all learn later, you know. And and so Dirt shimmies down and gets down, and what you can't tell in the film, there's just no way to describe it, is that goat if it had not lodged right under that ice in that rock, it would have tumbled eight hundred feet and you can't see it. It looks like it just kind of like gradually slopes down. But I told Misty it wasn't like a vertical face like Wiley Coyote. Like if you'd have jumped, you'd have just been in the air. It was one of these deals where you would have fallen and you would have you would have been dead within fifty feet, but you would have just went but you would have ended up eight hundred feet down, like zero chance of survival. 00:30:36 Speaker 4: Wow, are you going to tell about like what it sounded like. 00:30:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Dirt gets down and ropes the goat, and when he does, it's just like, holy cow, he did it? He when he This wasn't on film, because I'm belaying like the part of the film that that is on that you do see is just when I had a second to just film with my phone, Dirt when he went down, and I'm like full scale pulling the slack out like I'm putting pressure on him just a little bit. He had his foot on the rock and he would kick into the ice bank and get a foothold and then like jump down. I mean, he was like doing some super technical stuff. And when he finally gets down and once he's like under the ice, like he's kind of safe because he can kind of brace up against the ice in the rock. And he gets the rope on the goat. I tightened the rope up on the goat. Can't budget, Like, can't even budget. He grabs the goat by the horns and yanks it out of the ice, and mean, just like brute adrenaline strength. He yanks it out of the ice. And I pulled a slack out of the rope and I'm holding it, and he climbs back up and like holding onto the rope and me and him both pull the goat and it's too heavy. We get it halfway up this little face and we're just like, can't do it, can't do it. And so so I belay the goat. The goat's hanging on the side, and I say and I say, dirt, We've got to gut the goat. 00:32:15 Speaker 3: We've got to. 00:32:15 Speaker 1: Get his guts out what we can't get him out? And Dirt actually said, okay, do you think you can get it now that the goat's up a little closer. And I just said, Dirt, I can't. 00:32:28 Speaker 4: And for this, I'm very proud of Clay. 00:32:30 Speaker 1: I just said, I just said, Dirt, there's no way I can't do it. 00:32:37 Speaker 4: Do you tried for a second, didn't you know? 00:32:40 Speaker 1: I mean I just and and he said, no problem. He said, I'll do it, give me your knife. So, so the goat is hanging on this cliff face like like probably like eight feet from where it was. 00:32:53 Speaker 2: What's that stand up next? When you when when you have an animated part, stand up? Okay, the goat. 00:32:59 Speaker 1: The goat is hanging on this cliff face, probably eight feet from where it was lodged, and we've pulled it up. So Dirt goes back down there and it's standing here ice shoot here cliff face behind him. I'm up there, and he guts this goat like it's hanging from a tree limb. And when he guts the goat, I get butterflies in my stomach telling the story. The guts just like fall out, just like they would if you're skinning a deer up in a tree, and the guts confirm the physics of what we believed would happen. Those guts just went, I mean they it's not like he had to like kick them. The guts just went just off the side of the mountain. And it was just like this little water shoot, you know. And but now the goat weighs like thirty probably thirty pounds less. He shimmy's back up. He he did it. He put the rope over his shoulder and I'm just kind of like scrambling to just grab whatever I can and he just like takes off and we worked together, but he did the most of it, pull this goat back up on this little, you know, hood car sized shelf, perched up on this on this mountain, and I mean we were just like we just just hugged you. You can see the celebration. Yeah, what's not on the celebration that I've told many people, anybody that would sit long enough to listen, like you lovely people. When he got back up there, I wept, like wept like a child. I mean not because the dang goat. I mean some people cry, you know, like it wasn't a celebration that I. 00:34:54 Speaker 2: Got the goat, just a sense of relief. 00:34:57 Speaker 1: I just raw emotion, just like I grabbed his hands and we prayed, and I thank God that dirt was safe. And I mean, I'm serious, I just bawled. And I mean, you know there's no video of that. Uh and uh and then and we were for the most part out of the woods sort of, and I mean and then it took another hour. We processed the goat right there on the mountain, had our bags, we deboned it, took everything out, and then we had to get out and and and and that was that was the child I was. So I had been in this suit sitting in basically water for two and a half hour. That little rock sheef just had like a just like a trickle of water coming out and I had to sit in it to blay. And so like I I'm wet on the backside, the wind is blowing, it's cold, and I was shaken from cold and from just nerves. And then we got to go back up and I got to carry meat, and uh, a couple of times on the way up, I kind of just like froze and panic and you can see my legs shaken them in one part of the film. But it's like, so we get the goat out, everything's fine. 00:36:20 Speaker 4: He needs to say, we make stired a pretty good apple pie from the Nukeom Farm. 00:36:26 Speaker 1: And no, it was not fun. I mean, like not even remotely. Like I mean, it's cool that we documented it, you know, and like now we can celebrate this experience. But it when I think about that hunt, it is not fun like it was. It was all I wanted. So I watch the whole film, I me her YouTube. 00:36:50 Speaker 4: When I tell people the story, all the people in my life say, why didn't they just leave the goat? 00:37:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, good question. Well we we just didn't want to the dedication dedication as it goes. But uh yeah, so that's the story. Should I take this off for the rest of the probably she. 00:37:20 Speaker 2: Might be a little distracting you. And that very handsome leaf. 00:37:24 Speaker 1: Suf get it off. Is that the same leafy suit that uh didn't I give you that leafy suit? 00:37:33 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:37:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the first light leafy top for Father's Day. You should be you should be grounded. Uh, it's it's it's it's kind of funny that we had to talk about that but I the Ellis Bell podcast, to me, is way more unique than a film like this for real, for real, what you wouldn't know again, like backstory that that was recorded with Ellis Bell last week, we said on it for like, we worked on it the next day and produced it in two days and it came out this week. How did you find him? The farm? Arkansas Farm Bureau podcast called agra Culture, it's a regional farm Bureau insurance podcast, had done a podcast with Elsbell and he actually told a lot of the same stories. And I meant to publicly thank the guys at farm Bureau because they actually helped me get in touch with Elsbell, Steve Eddington and so big things to them. But I wouldn't have I didn't know Elis Bell. But when I heard him on their podcast, which it was There's there's a shorter Yeah, I think it's a two part podcast. I think, yeah, they do some cool stuff. I listened to them, and they do some really cool stuff. 00:39:19 Speaker 2: And they talked about him being part of the Arkansas Agricultural Hall of Fame. 00:39:23 Speaker 1: Fame and and he's told some of the same stories he told us. But so that's how I know him. That's how we met him. 00:39:30 Speaker 3: You know, I love it when somebody can tell their own story. I think that's really valuable and unique, especially when it's in their own words and their own perspective. Could you lose that, Like it's somebody else telling the first person to count and so hearing his you know, hearing the years and his voice and hearing the history and like how he perceived things. I mean, it was really interesting, Yeah, really interesting. 00:39:56 Speaker 1: What what stood out to you, Malca. 00:39:58 Speaker 3: Man, I'm I think I was impacted by his mom and the story about his mom getting her clothes on and going to help, like the only white family in that region during that area, and him being like, that's a white woman, Miss Jones is a white woman, and his mom looking at she's a human being, you know what I mean? And how like at eighty seven he remembers that, yes, you know what I mean, and it just, I don't know, real impacting the to see how influential you as a parent have on your children and your response will shape them, even like she probably didn't even think twice about that response, right, like totally forgot about it, But like that shaped his perception and how he saw people for the rest of his life and for him to remember that, I just think it's super cool. 00:40:57 Speaker 1: Well, and she did that in the early nineteen four Yeah, he was four or five years old, he told us. And I mean at the probably the peak of the Jim Crow era in the South and hear this woman in the privacy of her own home, with no knowledge that this was going to be broadcast. Yeah, eighty three years later. Yeah, that she she did what she did. I mean that that's a high level of character. I think that that that story to me was like the the the Yeah, it was got a high point in it. And because how much it impacted him. Yeah, you know on the on the Farm Bureau podcast, I think mister Ellis like was almost crying when he told that story. Yeah, when I first heard it, because he told that story on their podcast too, and yeah, that was that was something. 00:41:55 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was a good one. Also liked the story and how his pride could God in the way of the airplane. And I can't remember the phrase that he used or you used around like I just chose a different path. 00:42:12 Speaker 1: The guy the crop duster told him change your pattern. 00:42:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, change your pattern. And I'm just thinking it's a I don't know. I am. There's been a few times saying the last year that I've gotten to sit and listen to older men talk about their lives and their journey, and there's something like super I mean, the word I'll use is like sweet and genuine when a guy towards the end of their life can look back and see a story and grab a principle and like cherish that principle and be willing to give it to somebody else. And so like that principle of like, man, just change your pattern. You don't have to be right, you don't have to like prove your point, just change your pattern, and like you'll stay just standing up and up. I know, I'm just I value older men who have processed things and whether it was right or wrong, right, what they've gone through and been able to package in a way yeah that's exportable to other people. And being willing to export it to other people. Yeah, without some sort of token and reward back. I don't know, it's just a I like that change of pattern. 00:43:33 Speaker 1: Man, he had the kind of the architectural stories of his life and on a nice little platter. Uh and and and again I knew that because Josh didn't. Josh was the one who did that interview, and you didn't necessarily like team up, like, hey, tell us what you told them. 00:43:52 Speaker 2: No, not at all, not at all. 00:43:53 Speaker 1: I mean, there was no reference to that, and he he he told those same story. It's like, these are key moments. When I was five years old, I saw the sharecropper crying, and it's almost like that informed him of like, oh, there's some injustice in the world. I mean, a four year old boy knew that this grown man cry and it impacted him. And then when he heard why I mean it obviously it wasn't until he was an adult that he understood the bigger picture of really what was happening. But he remembered it, the stuff with his mother, the airplane. He just had so many just little nuggets that he could just like tell the story on. But mister, what stood out to you? 00:44:39 Speaker 4: Well, I think you know, as I was listening to it, it's just so interesting. It's kind of like what my like I said, hearing people talk about their story. These are things that like we study. I teach a class that we talk about the Great Migration and the social impact that had for people. But to hear someone we study the impacts of integration on kids' test scores and on in college, That's what we did, and I worked for a department that looked at that from a public policy perspective. But then to hear someone who went through it share it, it's it's just a it's just a very different a very different animal, and I think it it solidifies those experiences. And you know what what you're talking about when we when you think about memories and stuff, you think about the way that people process information, is you fit it inside of a category of how you of information you already know and so we already we know the history on this stuff. We have the we we've read the books, we've you know, talked to people, and so we're fitting that into a paradigm based on we know how these things end, we know how where they're at right now. We know, uh, we've been able to extrapolate ideas about how how these decisions were made. And this guy was experiencing it firsthand, just from a just experiencing the emotions of it, the what he could see, what he could how he felt about his mom being wrapped up real tight going out into the into the roads. I mean just to hearing him describe that his mom, how she was dressed that night, and how she was and how he couldn't sleep because of what he was thinking about. I just thought it was very meaningful to hear him him share that that story and hear it from not what we already know, not from what the history books say, but hear at firsthand, from the sights that sounds, the the experiences of. 00:46:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, he touched on two things that I think many people would be familiar with, but yeah, to hear to personalize the story. And number one was the Great Migration, you know, which are so many factors. I mean, we just touched We didn't go into it, but like you know, people leaving the South, you know which which he is you get you get the sense that he saw that happening and he didn't want he didn't want to go. He wanted to stay here and make it here, and he built a life that that did that. The second thing was that he saw and brought out was which is I don't know if it's controversial, it feels controversial, but about how desegregation and integration was difficult on black communities. Like to hear him say that, like he wasn't talking from an academic perspective. He wasn't like quoting some author he'd read about in a book. He saw it. He grew up in these communities and watched them disintegrate. What did you think about that? 00:47:30 Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, as Missy said, like I knew that, Like I've researched that, and I've seen the data and around how that did have an impact on the number of black teachers, the number of black administrators, number of black leaders, and how it really did have a I mean, it had an impact. So it was interesting to hear somebody's first person perspective about it, and it I think it kind of it It makes me think about just like the impact of policy. Right. Something that somebody once told me, like when I was going through grad school is like, if you want to ever like be a part of policy baking, the best thing that you can do is like, you know, think of your policy, but walk ten fifteen years in the future and then walk backwards and like think about like what is what is your policies? Adjust like what did it touch? Who was winning? Who is losing? And it it makes me think about how you know policies and when I say, policies. I'm just thinking about what are the words, edicts, structure systems that you're built to help govern society. That's when I think about policy, like it it's messy, right, and you can have like the best intentions of oh man, I see this injustice, we should do this policy and this will fix it, right, But it's just messy, right because and I think it just continued to kind of make that a reality for me of like policy, even though with the best intentions, you know, it might have adverse impacts and it will touch people's lives and I don't have like a solution to that, but it's just the reality. 00:49:25 Speaker 1: Well, do you remember mister Earl Jasper who we had on the Missisippi River episode who I asked him about integration And it's almost like sometimes policy impacts generations differently, because I mean, like generations later obviously was better for these people, but maybe that generation that that took it right in the face. I mean it was like super tough. 00:49:54 Speaker 4: Well, and I think you've got to kind of clarify a couple of things. I think there's integration, and integration was good and necessary, Like there's no doubt about it. People couldn't drink from water fountains in public places that you know, American citizens could not drink from public water fountains the same water fountain. That policy needed to change, but that wasn't the only thing that was changing. And so the implementation of that idea that people should be people should have equal access to things. I remember, and this has been almost fifteen years ago, and I was on this in Fort Smith and I was interviewing a woman who lives through that. And I've heard this both ways because I've talked with a good friend of mine who was busted in It was I think Michigan. He was bussed to his school, and he would say being able to be busted to that high quality school. He was a black guy, a black teenager was bussed to what had previously been an all white school, and he says, like made all the difference in the world in his life having access to that high quality school. So that you know, and their bussing is controversial as a paul, but he would say that was the difference maker for him. I was talking to this woman in Fort Smith and she was saying, you know, the integration of schools came as a result of the separate but equal doctrine that will have separate schools, but they'll be equal. And they were not equal. They were not equally funded, they were not equally resourced. And she said they should have just funded us. That was her perspective, is they should have just because when they integrated the schools, they didn't. They didn't say, hey, anyone can go to any school. They said the kids at the black school can now come to the white school. And for some people that would have been a great solution. But what one of the unintended consequences that I don't think people realized what happen is that they would lose their black leaders in the in the school. There wouldn't necessarily be a place for them at the school. That kids would get targeted and are are you know what's the word I'm looking for, malici when they put you in a lower level class? Yeah, ah, I'm having a blank out. So they wouldn't let those kids in the ap classes, and so there would be kind of like this subtle tracking, that's what it is. So there would be the subtle segregation within the school. So it's it's it's tricky because you don't want to say integration was a bad thing. It is wrong to say people can't have access to the same things. But there are unintended consequences and there were for those those communities and how they well. 00:52:24 Speaker 1: And I think if even aside from understanding even the details, just hearing him say what he said, like I didn't even need the vo vo being voiceover, I didn't need to like expound on it, just like hearing him say that just kind of it just gives you a different perspective. Yeah, Yeah, And I think that's all. That's what a story like this does. It just gives you a different perspective on it. That's that's really powerful and just kind of tells itself, tells the story itself. 00:52:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, Josh, Well, I was just gonna say, listening to you guys, after spending time with him, you know, spent a grand total of like three and a half hours with him, the one thing that you pick up on, and I think it's communicated in the podcast, is the fact that a there was some incredible generational continuance from his mother and father to him, because you see it in the fact that even though this man endured significant challenges and in segregation, in discrimination, it. There's no there's no air of embitterment in him, like he's not an embittered man, or there's no sense that he's a victim like he in no way does he he carried this victim mentality. He does recognize the challenges that were there, But what it did is it filled him with determination and drive and a sense of like, I'm going to be the best that I can be and not let any of this stuff hold me back. Yeah, and that's I mean that that's incredibly hard to do. But I don't know that he would have had that without the the the input from his mother and his father and hearing those stories of even like his dad going to get the loan from the from the bank and and then going to see the Lindsay boys, and I mean, those things showed him the way that you could navigate life and still be successful. 00:54:22 Speaker 1: You know, he said, he said, he said, I didn't spend much time worrying about what people did wanted me to do or not do. Yeah, which was somehow he he was able to like not let the status of the country and I think that's that would be hard to do. 00:54:41 Speaker 3: You know. 00:54:42 Speaker 2: It's like he didn't focus on the issues he focused on his destination, you. 00:54:48 Speaker 1: Know, and the guy, I mean, the story he tells is a phenomenal story. I mean, just from from going to I mean in the best poverty, I mean just in the back of a wagon, yep. To the success that he had I mean, and granted, I mean I'm talking partially about just like career and financial success, which there's a lot of ways to evaluate success, which which he would as well. But I mean just just an incredible story. I wanted to even think about the technology of him riding in a wagon, I mean, in the nineteen forties, four decades after the Malot was born, they're riding around and wagons pulled by mules. And then him being a pilot on an instrument rated airplane that he could fly at night, fly over all over the country. 00:55:40 Speaker 2: He bought his airplane in nineteen seventy two and it's the airplane he still has today and he just takes immaculate care of it. 00:55:47 Speaker 1: That's incredible, Yeah thing, yeah, yeah, bar what stood out to you? I think, first off, I really like this like style of Bear Grease podcast where you're just like it's like an interview with one person just about like their whole life nice and like something like this, like you know, like he condensed like eighty seven years of his life into like these like key points, these key moments, some like core memories and stuff, and like you know, like you can get all that in like one hour. So that was the first thing I thought was, you know, just like from like a Bear Grease podcast perspective, I like the story, yeah, style podcasts, nice podcast critique, yep. But then I think one of the big points that I thought was interesting was like you started out the beginning of the podcast with him talking about how like people would go up to the north and they'd come back with like these new cars. Yeah, and like even from like such a young age, like he never viewed the you know, like the new cars his success or that was never his like driving force was the material things. But then like you see, like you know, throughout his career he acquired all that stuff anyway just through like kind of like living that life or like the what's the verse that talks about like the you know, like your heart, everything flows from the heart. It was like his heart wasn't too, It wasn't after the material things. It wasn't after big success but it all kind of came with just that like heart posture that he lived with throughout his whole life. Like they were just kind of additional to him. 00:57:25 Speaker 2: Success was a constant path of progression, you know what I mean, It wasn't it wasn't this. When I get this, that will be success. Like he just always felt at the next level he needed to keep going. 00:57:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like the material things were like a byproduct of like his true like goals and progression in his career. So that was the main thing. But yeah, I thought that it was very interesting how well he like remembered his childhood, like how clear those memories were to him, and how well he described him. Yeah, was really interesting to see him at like eighty seven years old talking about all those things. 00:58:04 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:58:04 Speaker 1: So yeah, overall, I thought it was a good podcast. He's a good storyteller. Yeah, like he knew. I mean, these are stories he's told one hundred times, I'm sure, but like he it carried a good story. You don't realize it when you're spellbound under the story. But it's karen a set of values and knowledge that the storyteller is trying to impart and his stories did that you know, they were just like they did it. They were poignant, you know, and that's pretty rare. Yeah, I mean it's pretty rare to sit down with somebody and you know, I mean, like we said, he was interviewed for like three hours and you heard about forty minutes of him talking, and so obviously this didn't encompass the whole man's life, but it's just kind of what made sense for what we had. I bet there wasn't a person that listened to podcast that didn't smile when they heard him telling the coon hunting story. 00:59:02 Speaker 2: He was he was in tears, laughing so hard telling that story. He's like, he is the scariest note of my life? 00:59:11 Speaker 1: Did you smile when you heard it? 00:59:13 Speaker 3: Man? 00:59:13 Speaker 1: I was like listening to while I was working on a bow. I like really couldn't even hear what he was saying, but it was just how hard he was laughing. 00:59:20 Speaker 3: Was like funny, I feel his pain. Where are we going? We want to go over there night? 00:59:32 Speaker 4: You serious? 00:59:33 Speaker 3: I don't hear dogs coos. 00:59:35 Speaker 1: Was falling out of them. Oh that was so good. That story was like a minute long. Yeah, it was so short, but it and but it was just so funny. Because he thought it was so funny, you know, I had to include that. Obviously he wasn't like a big hunter, you know, but that that was so funny, it like a second face. Anything else stand out to you. 01:00:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was trying to. I was trying to think about some of the other other things, you know. I really appreciated his the story about him going to that shareholder shareholders meeting and like you know, like immediately being like faced with resistance and then something inside of him saying like talk say something, say something, and how like that there's a response to him saying something I don't know. Again, I think that's like a powerful thing because we we live in a society where like people might say something like online yeah right, but like never in a place of where like your words can you have to stand by your words? You're standing up in the shareholders meaning you can't shrink back behind like a you know, a covered name or what you know what I mean, you gotta like this is what I believe. And I just appreciated that that aspect of him when he recognized this is a moment where I can like say what I see, you know, and not you can And because the CEO responded, you knew there was a level of truth of what he was saying. Right, if he would have stand up and said something that was like outlandish, the CEO would have been like to sit down, but like because he was like on the mark, like I see all this, but why aren't you supporting black schools? And I just appreciate people who can recognize the moment it's time to say something and then having the capacity to like implement what they said. You know, I think that's some people can stand up and say something, but it takes a real guy or a lady to be able to take that vision of what you're saying and like implement it inside of their life. 01:01:51 Speaker 1: And I mean, obviously the story is so much more complex than what was told in digitally went from the CEO having a to hour conversation with him to him creating bell Agtech, which has been around for like I think, I said, twenty years. He has helped all these kids go to school. 01:02:08 Speaker 4: Fun facts, I know someone. I mean I'm ninety percent sure because I was listening when they were talking about that. Because of how he described it, I thought, I think that's I know someone who went to one of these this AG outreach program that was in one of the schools over there in the Delta, and he ended up going to Pine Bluff graduating. He is a very successful business owner here in northwest Arkansas now and if I said the name of the business, everybody would know what it was. Everyone from around he. 01:02:34 Speaker 1: Went to I mean I remember them, yes, through his program. 01:02:38 Speaker 4: Yeah, they would talk about that basically. Oh no, he got hooked up with this AG outreach program to help young black kids go to become get involved in agric worture. Yeah, well he's it's interesting because he's not actually in an AAG field, but because of that, that was kind of a stepping stone for him to get connected to something else. 01:02:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, going back to like the components of the story when when mister Ellis said, the CEO stood straight up. Yeah, he was a big, tall guy. Yeah, he's a good storytelling And you didn't know what was about to happen. You know, you were just like, is he gonna tell him to sit down and shut up? And he says, I want to talk to you, and then you still don't really know, like is he gonna get in trouble you know? Or is he gonna and then and then the story goes on. That was so good. That was so good, mon Santo being the Uh. Now, when I hear the name mon Santo, I hear doctor Nucle's got a head out. Yeah, she's so so important, she has things she has to do. When I hear mon Santo, I think of like, big bad corporate. What are we doing here? 01:03:57 Speaker 3: Let's just meeting her? 01:03:58 Speaker 1: Okay, I hear big bad corporate ag But anyway, sounds like I don't know much about him. But that word to me is usually a negative thing. Here it was a positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:04:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great story. I mean, a man who's made the most of his life. You know, those those are people to be to be just honored and emulated, you know. I think people can hear his story and use those characters and qualities and the and you know, not have to do things the hard way. When you hear someone who's actually already journeyed through difficult times, you can glean things to apply to your own life that keep you from having to do that. And I think this is a great story that fits that. 01:04:48 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 01:04:48 Speaker 3: Yeah. Makes you want to pull stuff from older. 01:04:51 Speaker 2: People, absolutely, you know, absolutely. 01:04:54 Speaker 3: It just makes you want to sit down and tell me that because when you're young, like when you teenager, high school, like, and you're around older family members, like you don't recognize the value of like what they have. Yeah, like, let me let me hear about your story, Like tell me more about when you when you moved to Alabama and bought a farm, you know what I mean, Like you don't. And that's any crop of life, any race. 01:05:22 Speaker 1: That's why it's such a blessing when someone lives into their late eighties and is still really competent and able to really tell a story because twenty years, like I think about my grandparents, Like what if I, at age seventeen, had interviewed my grandfather, Lewin Nuklem about his life. I mean, right now, it just seems like such a miss. It's like, what were we thinking that we didn't put a video camera in front of this guy and talk to him. But nobody did that kind of stuff. 01:05:52 Speaker 2: Nope. 01:05:53 Speaker 1: And so it's you know, it's like twenty years after something is gone, do you realize that you should have done it? And that's the beauty of these older people that are still really able to talk because I mean what if a guy like Ellis Bell had only lived into his seventies, we wouldn't be doing this podcast. True, Like his long life is what made us to be like, oh, this has extreme value. You know, we need to capture this, you know, and that that doesn't happen. So yeah, so we needed to start interviewing people that we don't think are very interesting and then maybe twenty years from now they will be. 01:06:37 Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. 01:06:38 Speaker 1: That'll be a new business model. Yeah, oh, that's our new business model. Let's build a business for twenty years from now by doing someone's boring. 01:06:44 Speaker 2: Let us interview this. 01:06:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, who do you think you are going to care a bit about tomorrow? We want to talk to him. 01:06:51 Speaker 3: You know. 01:06:51 Speaker 2: Christy had the forethought right before her grandmother died. She was like ninety two to just sit down with her for thirty forty five minutes until you I'll just tell us about your life and it's it's really valuable. 01:07:03 Speaker 5: She recorded audio recording why isn't this a bear grease podcast? Probably ought to be in a dirt house with a dirt floor, had dirt floors. She she helped her husband cut wood for a living. I mean she was an incredible, incredible woman. Yeah, Oma vaughn. 01:07:23 Speaker 1: Ye made the best cat had biscuits in Southeast Oklahoma. 01:07:27 Speaker 2: Yep, ye that right, absolutely every single day. 01:07:32 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Next Bar Grease podcast. There you go, MA, Like, how do how do you think we handled the material? This is always real. It's tricky to me. 01:07:42 Speaker 3: I I almost when I listened to it, I almost texted to you because I thought you hit it on the head when you said Southerners valued the individual black person but didn't value despise the race, and Northern despise the individual but loved the race. I mean, it's it's true, you know. And I think I think that was the first time I've ever heard it articulated. I know, I know that that's the reality. I've read the books, you know, I've done all the stuff, and I just think I appreciate, like at least talking about it. I saw something today and I thought it was a good like capture this post talking about like, you know, engaging in policy discussions, and it said like they have two models when they go into a room and try to develop a policy. The first model is like name the elephant in the room, right, And well, it's like name the thing that you don't want to talk about, Like, name the biggest if you're making a policy, Yeah, if you're making a policy, like let's talk about the elephant in the right, what's the elephant in the room. The second is like embrace the cactus, like talk about the things that are a little prickly, right, And if you're able to do that, you're able to move forward and make a good policy. And I just think race is still an elephant in the room in like our country, And I just think being able to engage and talk about the prickly stuff, I think it's it's something that we all need to do because it's only like when you're when you really have to engage in face? Are you? Like you? Does it like really provide you with the mirror of like do I think like that? You know what I mean? Like do I have a little bit of that mentality? And you know, I appreciate people who can who have a platform and do it in a respectful way. And I just think you did, you know, like even the subtleties of like if you hear me out some of the things you said, like if you hear me out, if you allow me to be vulnerable with you, if you allow me to say it. 01:10:00 Speaker 1: I was nervous as heck. Josh would tell you. I mean, it's like this fell in our lapse in a way, like I wasn't trying to like make a podcast about race in America. I mean, it's not even a very good time. I mean, it doesn't sound to me like a great time to even be talking about that. So it wasn't like this was calculated also learned well. I mean I knew this, but it wasn't calculated that this is black history. But favor like this was this just we got access to this guy, we went and did it and we made this, and I was nervous as a cat. I mean, this is a hunting podcast. We could talk about killing deer, like we don't have to tread on this kind of stuff. But I love it because I to me, it's it's interesting to me. It's the kind of conversations that just make you think about your own elf. I think, and there's there's a in journalism, there's a there's something that I don't understand that I'm trying to navigate through it. It's like when you just say something that's true, that's really not your opinion, it's kind of edgy. For instance, like when I described how I lived in Arkansas my whole life, just like mister Bell. We have a common story and that we're both from Arkansas. And I lived in a place where there were no black people when I was growing up, like literally like and and here he lived in a place that was primarily black, and you know, and and when when I tell people about Arkansas, I sometimes tell him that just because it's interesting. And it still kind of blows my mind sometimes of how geographically we have still segregated in a way. And that sounds wild even saying that, as risky as it is to talk about this stuff, but it's like, this is just the truth, you know. And I mean, that's something that we all know is true. We ought to be able to at least acknowledge it and talk about it. But uh, but I don't know. I mean, I I love I love that we can we can have these kind of discussions. 01:12:22 Speaker 3: You know. I think they're beneficial. I think they are. I think they're beneficial to have them and being able to talk about them with your you know, your friends, with your family, with your kids, with your children. I think That's one of the reasons. Like, you know, my my oldest girls fishing with. 01:12:39 Speaker 1: Josh right an, he didn't like fishing better and squirrel hunt though. 01:12:44 Speaker 3: Does he? I don't know. He caught. He caught too. 01:12:47 Speaker 2: And if you got him, I got him hooked, if you know what I mean. 01:12:50 Speaker 1: And if you ask him that, I will politic again, Hey man fishing. 01:12:57 Speaker 3: If you ask them, they'd be like, hey, I heard you caught a fish. She'd be like a cult too. I'll let you know a call too. But like I I I want them, my boys to not like be defined by their race, right I purposely put them in situations that society might tell them like that might that might not be your lane, you know what I mean. And it's just a way that it's preparing me to like be able to talk about the realities of society and when we live because you you know, we go to the golf course and I am, you know, probably one of two people black people at the golf course. But like it provides a space to talk about that with my boys and with my wife, and you know, I just think there's more people that need to need to have that that level of strategic interaction inside of this space, and you gotta got a platform to do it. So you did talk about coon hunting, so you yell us did Yeah, you checked off the box. Yeah. 01:14:04 Speaker 1: I think this was a hunting podcast. 01:14:06 Speaker 2: Well, his story, you know, we talk of The tagline for the podcast is find Relevance and Things Forgotten yep. And then the last line is to tell stories of people who live their lives close to the land. 01:14:18 Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, yep, he did it, no doubt, no doubt. Well, hey, this has been fun, A lot of fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. Thanks for coming, Malcom. 01:14:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll clears again. 01:14:31 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Well until next time. Is there anything else we're supposed to tell people before? 01:14:41 Speaker 3: I think we got it. 01:14:42 Speaker 1: We got the bear Newcomb's got two films coming out in the next couple of weeks. The media YouTube that bears on it's me and Barrack together. So it's not they're really good bear hunting, bull of them. I'm looking forward to. It's gonna be good. Yeah, and we've been, uh, we've been. By the time you watch those films, most of those bears would have already been eating. 01:15:01 Speaker 2: We had we in our camp. We had Mountain Goat and mountain goat and bear meat. 01:15:07 Speaker 1: Yep, great, yeah, it was great. All right, Keep the wild places wild because that's where the bears go. Mm hmmmm