00:00:14 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman. This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f HF Gear, American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the place as we explore. Happy New Year, everybody, Happy new Do you guys notice the New year already? We're actually recording live on January first. I hope everybody's doing great. 00:00:56 Speaker 2: I'm doing great. 00:00:57 Speaker 1: I'm not recording live. We're not recording. We're not We're not. So we've got We've got a We've got a great crew here today, doctor mister nukem Hello, you're here, very interested in your to hear about your projections for twenty twenty five. We've got Caleb Now, I would I thought it was spelled flies, but you tell me it is. 00:01:17 Speaker 3: It is spelled flies, but it's pronounced fleece. It's lee German, yes, sir. 00:01:21 Speaker 2: Really, finally our Germans on this show. 00:01:25 Speaker 1: Another German. What we need. 00:01:26 Speaker 2: My last name is Spielmacher. It's spelled it's spelled Speelmaker. 00:01:33 Speaker 1: Nice it's just so unnecessary, over dramatized. Missy always used to talk about, uh, our our friends sometimes we go to Central America and they would come back and they would be like. 00:01:45 Speaker 4: Having a normal conversation and then just all of a sudden say I went to. 00:01:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, we were down, and then just like talk back to their American accent, Caleb, good to have you here, man, get over here. Thanks. I just I just met Ale today, but we've been internet buddies for a pretty long time. And followed along on your traditional archery stuff. And uh so you're from Norman, Oklahoma, Yes, sir, Norman, Oklahoma. Good deer hunting over there, Yes, central ter over there, that's terrible. Deer stay away from it anywhere. As a matter of fact, go to Iowa. That's where people should deer hunt. All people should deer hunt in Iowa. Deer hunting Oklahoma's terrible. Arkansas is terrible. But you live in Norman, Oklahoma, yes, sir. And you're you're a. 00:02:36 Speaker 3: Firefighter, yes, for the city of Norman. Yep. 00:02:38 Speaker 1: Nice. How long you've been doing that, I've. 00:02:41 Speaker 3: Been doing it six years. I've been at that department for about four. 00:02:45 Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna come back to you. I need to hear like your best fire fireman stories. 00:02:50 Speaker 2: Okay, Caleb, do me a favor and pull that microphone just a little bit closer. 00:02:53 Speaker 1: Is that better? 00:02:54 Speaker 2: That's much How about that much better? 00:02:56 Speaker 1: Okay? We've got Josh Lyndbridge Spiel that's right here. And we've got Barr John Newcom also here. See it now, we're we've got scattered amongst the crew today. We've got multiple not just traditional bows, but what they call self bows. Tell me what a self bow is, or tell the people. 00:03:17 Speaker 3: So the technical term for self bow would be a bow made out of one piece of wood. It's shooting the arrow itself. It's not aided by a fiberglass lamination or bamboo backing or anything. It's carved out of one piece of wood. So it's a bow in the purest form. 00:03:34 Speaker 1: Is that? So they call itself because it's propelling itself. 00:03:39 Speaker 3: It is just it's just made out of one piece of wood. It's doing all the work itself. And it's commonly confused with be major self But I mean, if you made a compound in your garage, it wouldn't be a self bow, you know. 00:03:51 Speaker 1: I thought of that. Yeah, Like I made this bow myself. It's a self bow. No, you wouldn't say that. I would like to talk to the guy that named a self bow though. Yeah, it is a little bit misleading. It's uh, the marketings all off on it. I mean, what could what would be a better name, a little more flashy? You got any ideas, Caleb? 00:04:10 Speaker 3: Well, just I think they have to differentiate between long bows and recurves because. 00:04:14 Speaker 1: Those are cool names. Though. Yeah, but now you have miss. 00:04:20 Speaker 2: Can you have a self long bow? 00:04:22 Speaker 1: Yes? 00:04:23 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like so that's a long bow. This is a long bow. 00:04:26 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that it should have been called like like a one one piece or like like rugged American one piece? 00:04:35 Speaker 4: Is it self propelling? 00:04:37 Speaker 3: Well, it's just doing all the work itself that it relies on its strength. 00:04:42 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a better expert. 00:04:44 Speaker 2: So there are a. 00:04:44 Speaker 1: Bunch of primitive guys setting around clacking on rocks with these things, and they were like, what are we going to call these? And they were like, well, they wouldn't even have known what They probably would have just called them a bow because there wouldn't have been anything else true, Okay, so these had to be named later, Yeah, because they were like the propels. 00:05:04 Speaker 2: They must have come up with this name after they have. 00:05:06 Speaker 1: There's no wheels there, there's no you know. Anyway, it really is the most primitive archery weapon. I never got into self bows, or I haven't yet. I've shot traditional a lot. I was telling you before we started. I I shot traditional archery pretty much exclusively for seven years, like that was my go to weapon. I probably did a few rifle hunts like out West or something during that time, but for the most part, for for whitetail and for bear for seven years. And man, I got into it really just to see if I could, just to see if I could do it. You know, we so my we have a really is part of our family, not directly, but David Albright is a really good do you know. You know a guy named David Alright, he's from Arkansas. Bow you're from Arkansas in his seventies and he gave me a bow twenty plus years ago, and he always hunted public land here in Arkansas and killed as limited deer with bows that he made. And I was shooting you know, compound bows and just felt like, man, that is a that's the way to bow hunt. Like I mean, even nobody had to tell me. When I met David Albright, I was like, this guy's a real deal, and I just was challenged by the way that he hunted, and he gave me a bow. I started shooting, but didn't hunt for like ten years until after I got a bow, and then about twenty thirteen, I was like, man, I'm just gonna go for it now. I killed my first deer with a trad bow. I guess that picture right there, which would have been two thousand and six. So yeah, I killed one in two thousand and six and then missed several. 00:07:00 Speaker 2: Are you wearing that baby carrier when you shot? 00:07:02 Speaker 3: No? 00:07:02 Speaker 2: That? 00:07:02 Speaker 1: Uh so that's Bear on my back there, Caleb. That's neat. Yeah. So I'd shot that deer and came home and I had to get Misty. Misty was actually sick. 00:07:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, I got really, really sick. I'll never forget that day. I got super sick that day. I got a really bad migraine, one of the worst I've ever had, knocked me out and Bears you was it, little little puppy and Clay had cub Yeah that come is it? That's true? And Clay threw him in the back and went and got the deer. 00:07:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, so so, but it wasn't until twenty thirteen that I really started seriously hunting with it. And uh, man, you asked me why I didn't hunt with it as much anymore, and I do occasional. I killed a bear two years ago, I guess with a with a bow, with a trad bow. 00:07:50 Speaker 2: But at a Foalsom point. 00:07:52 Speaker 1: Man, it is it is. It's stressful to carry one of those things, you know. I mean when you go out in the woods and in your limitting factor is not only getting close to an animal and not being detected and finding an animal that you legally can shoot, but when you do all that right and then you've got to make a shot instinctively, it's tough. So, I mean, period, I hats off. Just was like, man, I want to remove one of these obstacles to killing wild game, and so I started to shoot my compound again. Is that a sufficient answer? 00:08:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, you approve of that, Yeah, I. 00:08:39 Speaker 1: Mean, to each their own. 00:08:41 Speaker 3: I was just curious because, like you know, there are so many more lows when you're walking around with the stick bow. But man, the highs are like nothing I've ever felt before. So you know, like I'll I've picked up the rifle a few times since I started hunting traditional, but I've shot traditional my whole life and hunted with a gun until I was seventeen or eighteen, and then I shot my first year with one, and man, it just it's so addicting that I was okay with seeing deer at thirty yards that I couldn't shoot, because when I would get one at twenty yards and I'd harvest it, man, it's just the ultimate reward. 00:09:16 Speaker 1: That was good. Yeah, that was year. That was way better than my reason why I quite Yeah, too hard week. So when did you start shooting traditional? Did your dad shoot? Did you grow up hunting? 00:09:33 Speaker 3: I grew up hunting and fishing, but the traditional stuff wasn't really anything anyone else in my family did. It was just as a kid, like watching any kind of movie or anything like from Lord of the Rings or like leg Loss. For some reason, those guys with the long bows and reekers were always so cool to me. And so I have one that I would shoot in the backyard and I would shoot three D tournaments like age nine ten, whatever we travel over and I'd shoot. My older brother would shoot compound, and then I shot my first deer with a recurve when I was twelve or thirteen, and it was like twenty five yards and it stuck in right behind the shoulder and then just drooped, and so I mean, it didn't hurt the deer, and I just remember crying. 00:10:11 Speaker 1: And be like I wounded it. I wounded it. 00:10:13 Speaker 3: My Grandpa's like, no, you're you're fine or whatever. But I shot a compound just because that terrible in my mind experience, just like I can't I can't shoot a heavy enough bow at that point. So I shot compound and shot quite a few deer with that in a rifle until I finally one day decided like I'm I'm taking my recurve back out, and you know it's kind of rest as history after that. 00:10:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you're making your own bows, yes, just a couple of. 00:10:37 Speaker 3: Those bows, so this one. And I didn't really start making them until about six or seven years ago. I went to that bow building festival I was talking to bear about called Ojam in Oklahoma, and uh, I learned to build one there and I just fell in love with it. So that is that is an osage orange boat art. And then it's just got a coppread backing their beaver tail handle. 00:11:02 Speaker 1: That really snaky. So describe what snakey means. Bear, It's basically like where the grain of the wood kind of goes back and forth like a snake, you know, instead of just straight. So this one has a lot of curves in the limb and you're able to when they're that that what I I mean, I understand it. But it would be wouldn't be intuitive that even with that curved, that curved limb, that bow still shoots straight. Yes, if you can get there your arrow we even bob. No, as long as that snaky. If your era would like curve around the trash and stuff, it'd be nice. That's beautiful man, that you're a you're a real craftsman. 00:11:48 Speaker 2: Clay described that for people who are just listening. 00:11:52 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:11:52 Speaker 3: Is that a sixty two inch bow or sixty inches fifty nine fifty. 00:11:57 Speaker 1: Nine inch bow? It's got a beaver beavertail handle, and two big copperhead skins that. 00:12:03 Speaker 4: Don't forget about the turquoise dots. 00:12:06 Speaker 1: Are you scared to touch that? 00:12:07 Speaker 4: No, I said, don't forget about that. 00:12:09 Speaker 1: I was a little scared to touch it was phrasing gonna bite me. Yeah, and that's a flax. I made the string out of flax. So I wanted everything for my Oklahoma bear hunt to be all natural materials, all primitive and so yeah, that's my first attempt at a flax string. And it works really similar to like a decron string. It's really yeah, like the serving is even flax on it. And then I carved a little bear and underneath the handle, and then inlaid it with crushed turquoise, oh, a little spar track. And so you tell me about tell me about the bear in Oklahoma like it kind of you know, you were the first one to kill one with a primitive weapon. 00:12:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, so four, I guess maybe five years ago. I went right after I got married. My friend invited me on a bear hunt and he was gonna hunt with his long bow and I was just going along to film. And so I set up in the tree and we sat three days, all day sits over bait, and we finally had a bear come in. It was a cinnamon colored bear came in and I looked over at my friend and. 00:13:09 Speaker 1: He was asleep. 00:13:11 Speaker 3: He has four kids, two of our twins, so this was kind of his getaway vacation. He was tired, and I woke him up and she was twenty five yards sitting facing frontal and she winded us and just left. But I never had any desire to hunt a bear until I saw that bear. And it was my first time ever seeing a bear in the wild, and just I don't know what it was about him, but I just knew, like from that moment on, I was going to be, you know, pursuing bear myself, especially in Oklahoma because those mountains are where my mom's side the family is from, so I grew up going down there every year. And it's just so it was a culmination of all these different things that were just kind of special to me. 00:13:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you were the but you wanted to be the first guy, or you were conscious of being the first guy to kill a bear at least in modern times and recorded history with a completely primitive setup. Yes, yeah, so you were you in a stone point? Now did you make the point? Yes? 00:14:02 Speaker 3: I didn't have those, you know, because they're obsidian wood shaft deer sin you self knocks deer sindu on the knox, and turkey feathers. So I tried for four years just I would have bear every year, and then you know October one or late September they really started pulling off. And then you know, last year, just everything came together. 00:14:25 Speaker 1: And was it just last year that you killed it, like twenty three. 00:14:29 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, twenty three, so the oko years ago, that's right, it's. 00:14:34 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five, that's right, yep. But it was. 00:14:38 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was an addiction. Like my wife would probably tell you, I was unwell, like because I live Central Oklahoma's four hours from you know, where my bare lease was. So I was driving down twice a week to bait, and then last year I was doing that and then also going to Arkansas. 00:14:54 Speaker 1: So I mean I love it going on yeah, yeah, so ah that's cool. Did it perform good on the Yeah? 00:15:00 Speaker 3: So I got both lungs and then that stone point buried in the off side ribs, so I got good penetration. 00:15:08 Speaker 2: How far away was he when you shot him? 00:15:10 Speaker 3: She was like six or seven yards, I mean right there. 00:15:15 Speaker 1: How high were you in the tree? I wasn't. 00:15:17 Speaker 3: I was probably about eight or nine feet, but because I was on a hillside, she was probably only five or six feet beneath me. Really, so it was a really really close shot and she was a good size sow. 00:15:28 Speaker 1: So you know, the the reason that we made the bear pit. Have you seen our bear pit? 00:15:37 Speaker 3: Yes, and I've seen that video. 00:15:38 Speaker 1: It was it was It was pretty intentional because I wanted to shoot a bear like five yards on the ground, you know, or you know, because I didn't. I didn't want to be way up above him and get just one entry hole and then not get much blood. I wanted to be on the ground, and you know, you could, you could have made a little ground blind or something, but I felt like digging that hole in the way we did it would help us with synth. And it turns out it's it's a pretty good strategy. Yeah, and it's cool. Yeah, Yeah, it's fun hunting in there. So bear killed one in there this year, which will be which will be really cool but. 00:16:21 Speaker 2: Awesome. Yeah. 00:16:24 Speaker 1: So how did how did bears come? 00:16:25 Speaker 3: Because I've seen your video and it just seems to pop out of the side like, yeah, just right in front of you all of a sudden, did you was you similar or did you see. 00:16:32 Speaker 2: It the first day? 00:16:33 Speaker 1: It did exactly that. It came around the right side of that triangle and then just stuck its head out, like I measured it with the bow and it was like four inches past my bow, so I mean it was like six feet or something. But the second day, whenever I actually killed it, it just came in from head on and I shot it and I saw it coming from a long wayst Yeah, it didn't just swing around the corner like yours. But I ended up shooting it at like probably ten yards. When you say, yeah, that's like, that's part of the rea. When I didn't shoot trad for a long time. That was part of the reason I dug the pit is because I didn't want to miss one at ten yards, right, I was just like I want to shoot one. And that bear that I killed for real was as close as that one was to you. I mean it just was. It just walk right up from me. It was like three yards like from here to that light. 00:17:23 Speaker 3: You know, what's the like filling contrast of being in a tree versus the ground, Because this year I was on the ground and I didn't get a shot at anything. Barriess, But is that like a whole new level of nerves And I. 00:17:37 Speaker 1: Don't know, is it bear? I don't know. I think it's pretty when they just swing around the corner and you just don't see him at all, and all of a sudden, there's a bear six feet from you. That's a little more different being on the ground with him a little different. But when it came in just head on, I would say, it was about like being in a tree stand. 00:17:54 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:17:55 Speaker 5: Yeah, well let's let's let's let's do a little let's do a little thing here. 00:18:07 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So it's it's twenty twenty five and us still a little reflection on last year, twenty twenty four. 00:18:19 Speaker 4: Personal reflection, Bear Grease reflection. Well, I was thinking about reflection on the world at large. 00:18:25 Speaker 1: I was thinking about like going through kind of your your hunting season highs and lows, which you could, Misty, you could you could amend that to fit what you want. Did you know that Misty is highly involved in a pretty sketchy quilting game, quilting club they called it. 00:18:45 Speaker 4: I had no idea. It was this is going to be unveiled here with. 00:18:49 Speaker 1: My mother in law, with Josh's mother in law and another lady we won't even we won't even say her name. But I mean they're constantly quilting, They're constantly getting you know, fabric from weird places and stitching stuff together that should never be stitched together. It's uh yeah, and they just spend so much time. I just feel like it's taken away from their families, market fabric. I feel like there it's it's really wild. So if you want to talk about that, let's reflect on that. You can h Barret tell us about your season start, you know, like just take this like a few minutes, like what was what? 00:19:28 Speaker 3: What? 00:19:28 Speaker 1: What were we were your first hunts? How'd you do? My years started off really good, even though it's still technically last season. Sure, January, what'd you do? I forgot January? Oh wait a minute, that was I thought my Bob cows in January. I was in December. Okay, okay, January. I got a beaver though with the self bow, which was my second critter with the self bow. Uh so yeah, started out the year with a nice beaver. Uh and then a turkey in the spring public land ozark turkey bush whacked him. Yeah, then the honorable bushwhack. That's honorable bushwhack. After you've hunted for like ten days, you just do whatever it takes, that's right. Yeah, And it's probably harder than calling them up. Yeah. Well, and then I made my first bow in either February or March. Okay. And then so well, oh that was you were using David Albright's self bow, got it? So you made you made yet first my first four yep? Okay. And then let's see summertime, caught a forty two pound catfish, noodle, the big catfish. 00:20:42 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:20:44 Speaker 1: We don't talk about fishing on this oh yes, okay, uh, and then it doesn't count. Late summer, I killed the first critter with the bow that I made to killed a hog yeah, the copperhead yep. And then killed the bear out of the bear it with the copper head. Yep. Now you're you're missing. I was. I was hoping for a little bit more reflection on failure. Oh okay, well all, my my first bow was a pretty big before I actually made one. That shot was a total catastrophe. I spent like, you know, six hours on it and then was like, I'm going to use a table saw got right into the back of it. Okay, big mistake. So that that was failure number one probably of the year. And then I would say probably the biggest failure was I shot a deer opening day with the self bow like right above it. It was like three yards public land, like a two and a half year old eight point, and just shot straight down on it and the arrow went all the way through it covered in liver blood. So it was an ideal but was still mortal thought. I heard the deer crash, and then as I'm getting out of my tree, I hear it get up take off again. And anyway, I ended up walking like and it was thick. That whole area was just as thick as could be. I ended up walking like sixteen miles looking for it the next couple of days. Never found it. 00:22:20 Speaker 2: That's tough. 00:22:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would say that's I helped you look for that deer too. Yeah, you put down like two or three miles. I thought we would find it. And then the night that I shot at had like four people out there who also put down a couple of miles. So there were a lot of miles put into that deer and we never found it, which was devastating because it just was like, yeah, it was first day public land over here in some tough public land, and he shot a nice buck. He got a picture of it right before it walked by. Yeah, isn't that right? Yeah, it was like it was on the bigger end of it, two and a half. It was a nice It was a nice buck. And I can see from being right above it, like the tip of it. Couldn't find it. But I wouldn't expect you to tell that failure story. 00:23:06 Speaker 4: But well that was the most That was the biggest feeling was. 00:23:08 Speaker 1: The started it all in from there. Just the deer, tough deer season. Yeah, okay, so that yeah, I'd say that's it, Josh. 00:23:20 Speaker 2: I had four goals this year outdoor goalsky. I only made one of them, Okay, okay, yeah I had. My first goal was to kill turkey, and I went hunting and put in some miles and tough hunting, tough turkey hunting in Arkansas. Couldn't find couldn't get on a bird. My second goal, and I don't care what you say about fishing, My second goal was to catch a twenty five inch brown trout this year, and I caught a twenty three inch brown trout. Twenty five inch, oh man, so close. My third goal was to kill a but kill a deer with a bow because I'd been out of the bow hunting game for many years, yep, and I got back into it, and I like, I really like, I really put in the time and effort. You know, I tried to shoot one hundred arrows a day for several weeks before deer season, you know, just really dial it in. Just met with the bow professional at the bow shop and he helped fix my shot, and you know, I really felt good about my shooting. And of course right early season had a really had a thirty yard shot at a really nice buck, and all that learning and effort I put in went out the window and I just got bow fever and just shot the old style and completely missed him. So that was the third failure. The fourth one was just to kill a buck this year, and I got a decent buck with a rifle, so I'm happy about that one. So those are my Those are my four goals. As I reflect on twenty twenty four, which you know, we've still got a few days left here, I know we're recording anything. Anything. I could go out and it's true, catch my brown trout. I mean not legally get a turkey, but I could kill a deer with my bow. And you didn't get the twenty five. 00:25:09 Speaker 1: That's a good year, you know what. I'm proud of you. I think you just went out there and and and tried. I mean that did I find a lot of times goals, you set a goal and then half half of it is just going and trying, and then you're like okay, and you kind of set your expectations and you're like, well, you know what, if I'm going to kill a turkey, I guess I'm going to have to hunt a little more than I did, or go to a different spot, or you know, go in a different time, or you know, you just learn stuff. 00:25:39 Speaker 4: Says the The people who show up are always there when our luck happens, when luck happens. 00:25:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. 00:25:49 Speaker 4: Chef's pretty he's full of inspiration. 00:25:52 Speaker 1: I think it was a little tighter than that. 00:25:53 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he's full of inspiration. 00:25:56 Speaker 1: Now bear what I was actually wanting to talk about failing man? No, I thought you would bring up our Montana bear hunt. Oh that was a job you didn't you didn't fail on that? Well, yeah that was also you actually didn't. You didn't fail at all. But I was I was hoping that would be in the in the in the story arc because it was a big deal. We went, we were going for like twelve days. I've been trying to forget about that, so yeah, thanks for salting that one. 00:26:29 Speaker 4: Yeah, let's take fires day. 00:26:32 Speaker 1: I'm open to that. I plan to. You really don't have to focus on the bad things. That was actually was just trying to get buried and talk about going to Montana and not killing Beart. That's all. And then now we're but this, actually it might play right into my hand when we talk about the bear Grease podcast this week, the bear Grease time Machine. Yes, because Misty said that she noticed a theme. Once you go midway, go ahead and tell the theme that you noticed in the bear Grease podcast. 00:27:06 Speaker 4: Well, listening to the bear Grease podcast for this most recent week, and it was kind of my snapshots of like some of the highlights from the best of all time. 00:27:15 Speaker 1: I guess, well, just just ones that stood out. 00:27:17 Speaker 4: Yeah, ones that stood out. What I noticed is that they all kind of shared a theme of difficulty, trial, failure, suffering, you know, things that we typically associate with not good, but in the you know, they were all just sort of themes about yeah, struggle and failure and what good came out redemption redemption. 00:27:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were all I kind of picked up on a theme of just being some outlaw and in three of them, which I'm not four, but I find myself and. 00:27:49 Speaker 2: Talk about it a lot. 00:27:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I do. I do. Point. 00:27:51 Speaker 2: I think you secretly, like deep down inside, wish you'd been a I wish you'd been an outlaw in a previous life. 00:27:59 Speaker 4: Well, i'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's that. I think it's that Clay he likes people. He's always been really drawn to people who have very a very strong sense of personal identity. True, and I think that in Outlaws he finds people who in particular personal identity that goes against the trends. There you go, And I think that an Outlaws. 00:28:20 Speaker 2: That's why. 00:28:23 Speaker 4: There's probably more reasons just that. 00:28:26 Speaker 1: A few more reasons than that. I think you're right, though I know you're right, and a lot of times I find well, I don't want to. Yeah, I said on the podcast, my intent was never to glamorize breaking the law, and somebody could probably make an argument that I have, but that is not my intent. 00:28:50 Speaker 2: I think I think you've made it pretty clear that the way these stories of these outlaws have turned out have brought redemption into either their own personal lives of the lives of their family members. Yeah, and so I think that's the thing that really that is really celebrated inside of these stories. 00:29:07 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well we're going to talk about those, but but but perhaps talking about some of our you know, goals that we've achieved and failures we'll play into the later conversation. Caleb, how was your hunting season? Man? 00:29:21 Speaker 3: I would say really good for this year that me and my wife just welcomed our first baby and May graduation. We were super excited. We were married six years, so it was it was time. It was time, and I knew that was going to change hunting season, but I still wanted to do some bear hunting Oklahoma. I didn't have any time to go down there and bait or anything, but just hunting National Forest. After a couple of days in hiking quite a few miles, I did find a whole bunch of fresh bear sign and I sat up on a spring fed pond at altitude where there were a ton of white oaks dropping and uh, I actually had a group of turkeys come in and I missed a turkey I don't want to leave bear hanging out on the self. 00:29:58 Speaker 1: Okay, so it was. 00:30:00 Speaker 4: Like I didn't get a turkey either, just to be. 00:30:03 Speaker 3: It was like ten yards too. It was a chip shot. So but then I came back home and then hunted. 00:30:10 Speaker 5: Uh. 00:30:10 Speaker 1: I don't hunt right where I live. I live. 00:30:12 Speaker 3: I hunt about an hour. I won't say which direction from where I live. But I did harvest two really really nice bucks, and I was. I was really. 00:30:20 Speaker 1: Happy with that because the year with your bows, Yes, you're with my self, bows man, that's a big deal to kill to any kind of deer with yourself both. Yeah, and I didn't hunt that much this year. In the previous year, I hunted ten times harder and I ended up with one with my bow. And then I did take the gun for the first time in a while and shot on with my gun. But okay, for the amount of time I got to go out, I was. I was really blessed this year in the woods for sure. Nice cool man. Uh you know what I think? I think that Uh. I think if I only had like four days a year to hunt, I would probably kill more deer than I do. Right now, What do you mean? I mean? Because I I would pick the four best days of the year to go hunting. I wouldn't. It's kind of like, I love to go hunting. I want to go, So I might come out after this podcast on January first and be like, you know what, I'm gonna go sit in a tree stand for a couple hours, and you know, the conditions aren't great. You know, it's warm, or maybe I don't have animals on camera or whatever. If you only had four or five days to hunt and you could pick those days, you'd be going into your spots and they would be super fresh. That's something I learned this year hunting a new place that I was hunting that actually didn't get to go to until the first time I ever set foot on the property was on November the eighth, never been there, just seeing it on X and went in there, and I mean, those deer hadn't been messed with. They were it was prime time, you know, and I thought, Man, if I'd have been over here messing around down since October first, or you know, yeah, I would have messed things up. I think sometimes not having much time is good. So you're not going to mention that you missed two deer that day, it's not. 00:32:19 Speaker 4: It is your turn. No, no, well, I actually just perused through my phone to see that was pretty good here. I just went and perused through my phone to see, like what happened this year? Kind of big stuff all around we Mary John. 00:32:36 Speaker 1: Graduated, joined a gang. Oh forgot about that. 00:32:38 Speaker 4: Mary John graduated high school. 00:32:40 Speaker 2: Our oldest daughter a success, our failure success, made it. 00:32:44 Speaker 4: Out, made it out. Our oldest daughter got married. So there's a lot of like wedding stuff in my photo. Quick perusal of things. Uh, watched a lot of basketball m hm, ship played a lot of basketball. Our other daughter has, she's started a business, got a new job, a couple of different jobs. Uh like, didn't lose a couple jobs, like working two jobs, work at two jobs. So a lot of a lot of activity around around the family. I did. I did when my oldest daughter got married. I wanted to make her quilt, and so I made one and that kind of got some quilt see going, and we decided to keep making them, so we made several quilts. We made four quilts since June. Pretty impressive. Yeah, I wouldn't call it a gang. They're pretty pretty moderate people, you know, pretty moderate people. But I would say there's been a lot of stuff that I have not had time to do, like. 00:33:52 Speaker 1: Failures. 00:33:52 Speaker 4: Yeah, these be my failures, are you know? I usually garden a little bit heavier than I did this year. We did grow the flowers for are some of the flowers for our daughter's wedding. A friend grew a bunch of them. So we did some things like that. But really, after the wedding you gave up. Well, it's not that I gave I had a surgery right after, so it was just kind of like we just were busy and the good planning times were focused on different stuff, and so. 00:34:18 Speaker 2: We've gotten to the age where we just have surgeries now. 00:34:21 Speaker 1: Yea. 00:34:22 Speaker 4: But to be fair, mine was a surgery that probably should have happened when I was a teenager. I got my wisdom teeth taken out this summer. 00:34:27 Speaker 1: Oh, that doesn't count as the surgery. I was sitting here thinking what surgery. 00:34:33 Speaker 4: Well, I didn't really want to go into all of it. Thanks for mocking it. I had had a ridiculous recovery. A bear grease listener bailed me out though, Oh really yeah, big shout out to doctor Cross in Bayetteville. If you ever need your wisdom teeth taken out, go to that guy. 00:34:51 Speaker 1: Wow, I had. 00:34:52 Speaker 4: I had a kind of tough recovery and I ended up pivoting to him. 00:34:55 Speaker 1: Doctor Cross and Fable, Arkansas. 00:34:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, incredible. 00:34:57 Speaker 1: Now, I wasn't saying that I didn't know. I knew you had your wisdom teeth. 00:35:00 Speaker 4: Yeah, you were just diminishing. Let's talk about Clay. You're right, it's it wasn't like a life threatening surgery. 00:35:08 Speaker 1: I just saying that the lexicon of of dental surgery wasn't there. 00:35:13 Speaker 2: So I gall bladder out and he didn't know about it. 00:35:16 Speaker 4: It was like, I hope that that if I have a surgery, Clay would know about it. I mean I do hope that. I hope. I would like to think that he would. Anyway, I just didn't. And then school started and things. 00:35:29 Speaker 1: Were busy so great. Did you get to do any hunting? 00:35:32 Speaker 4: I duck hunted, Yeah you did. I did, and I was a shoe one. I was told I shot an awful lot and surely one of them's mind. 00:35:43 Speaker 2: Many many rounds came out of. 00:35:45 Speaker 4: Duck hunting, like like just kind of going, yeah, I do enjoy that. 00:35:51 Speaker 1: Friend, the one, the one, the one duck she really legitimately killed. It was like six teal that came in just like I mean, they. 00:36:03 Speaker 6: Just swooped in and she just boom. I mean just like, I mean it didn't even look like she aimed. Were like good shot. Yeah, it just about like that, didn't I think? So, Yeah, good job. 00:36:19 Speaker 4: I do enjoy it. And it's about time to go, duck. 00:36:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, filmmaker wants to go. 00:36:24 Speaker 4: I want to set her up for a dunk. I want to. I want to. I think I can maybe work that out. 00:36:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Uh, I'm gonna go chronologically so I'll get to missing those deer. But I'd say the perhaps the biggest failure this year was I'd hope to have a coon dog by twenty twenty four, and it didn't happen. 00:36:46 Speaker 4: In fact, we lost were net. 00:36:49 Speaker 1: Yeah lost we lost it. We lost it. Not a good coon dog, but. 00:36:54 Speaker 4: Gave very good dog. Ye, a retired coon dog. 00:36:57 Speaker 1: He gave us, He gave it all he did. No, Yeah, we we lost jed uh. But I'd hope to kind of just get things in order to get a coon dog, and I haven't yet. But in twenty twenty five, it's like happening. I've got I've got a pup lined up out of Ohio that I'm going to go get soon, so there'll be more on that spring. Turkey hunted had had a decent spring turkey season, killed the turkey, and Tennessee killed the turkey. Mississippi with Lake Pickle had a that was good. 00:37:27 Speaker 7: No Arkansas turkey, So no, no, no about I'm kind of just letting letting them, letting them do their thing without without me getting after him. 00:37:38 Speaker 1: Uh. The highlight of the year, I would say, from from a hunting perspective was, uh was I. I went to Alaska on a mountain goat hunt in August and uh killed a mountain goat, which was one of the one of the toughest hunts that I've ever done. And uh, actually a film is going to come out early in the year, early this year about about the hunt. It's going to come out on the media YouTube channel, which is going to be I haven't I mean we haven't. I haven't seen it yet, but I was there, so I kind of know what happened, and it was it was a scary, very scary hunts. Most scared I've ever been in any hunting scenario, well, really any scenario in my life. It got pretty sketchy with high altitudes and on a cliff, recovering the goat got really sketchy. So that was a big deal. Oh, I will say if I'm talking about kind of outdoor stuff. A highlight of the year but also a struggle of the year was the Meat Eater Live Tour, which was fourteen days going from like April twentieth, like May seventh or something. And it was a great time. But I had to sing every single night, well ten nights, basically in a row in front of a bunch of people, and uh that was from the mountain. Go That's the most scared I've ever been in my life. 00:39:09 Speaker 2: How many record deals were offered to. 00:39:11 Speaker 1: California, I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting, still waiting. No, but I had had a I didn't really bear hunt much this year in the in oh in the spring your biggest Western bear, well, yeah, killed my biggest Western bear with on a hunt with bear. We took our mules to Montana and uh killed a big color phrase bear in Montana, which was really cool that I think we just got by the skin of our teeth like that. Hunt. We killed a bear and and it turned out really good. But we were like that far from going home with nothing killed on the sixth day of a seven day hunt and a spot we hadn't even been to. Kind of just just hike, you know. I want to say, I don't want to say we got lucky because we did. What you do when you bear hunt is that you just keep you just keep pounding, you keep going to new areas and there when the luck comes around and get It's like shep says, you got to be there when the luck shows up. But we did some stuff right when we found where a bear was, you know, and so I felt good about that. And then I had a good year, pretty good year. Yeah, I had a pretty good year bow hunting for deer, used my compound. How could it get better? Well, man, Gary Newcomb put this in me, and I'm forty five. I guess it's not leaving if I don't kill a buck in Arkansas, I just I don't. I just am kind of like ah, like Gary Newkeomb, he he loved to bow hunt. Caleb. I mean he's still he's Wow, he's not hunting a lot right now, but I mean he's still alive, and he would always he would say, if you can't do it at home, you don't have any business going off somewhere else to try to do it. 00:41:00 Speaker 3: Okay, so you're saying it's it just can damp in your whole season. You can do everything, but if you don't get a home state deer, Okay. 00:41:07 Speaker 1: I mean for real, I can't help it. Like I I when I think about my season, I'm just like, oh, well, yeah, I killed deer in Oklahoma because a nice one in Kansas. And I mean, I'm telling you, they just don't feel like they count because those places are so good. You did kill more like total inches of deer this year. Like, have you ever killed. 00:41:29 Speaker 4: Records here? Yeah? 00:41:31 Speaker 1: Just after what I did to you, I probably have. I had a couple of couple of years I rekilled two bucks over. I'd have to think about it. Yeah maybe maybe. But you're right, and I'm not. Well, I'm still gonna I've still got a tag left that I'm hoping to feel. But no, I don't want to take anything away from those other bucks I'm having. I had the time of my life hunting in Kansas and Oklahoma. I truly did. But when I like, in the in the corners of my mind, in the in the darkness of the night, I am like, well, I didn't get one in Arkansas. But I really didn't hunt much in Arkansas because Bear brought up my failures. The first time I went to this property that I got access to this year, I it was November the eighth, never been there and was just walking around. The first time I got out of the truck, I saw a buck and a dough and I was just like, Wow, cool, man, there's there's some deer. I wasn't expecting to really see any deer. The next time I got out of the truck, I walked into a spot I wanted to looked up on on X and went to wanted to see it. I got to the spot and there was a buck making a scrape like just right there, and he just jumped out there like twenty yards and turned around and watched me. And I was like, I could shoot that deer, and it was nice. It was a nice little buck. I'd have probably shot him. And so the next time I just hit it at this like that day of the year that it was just incredible. So I said, man, the next time I get out of the truck, and I was just scouting, never been here, like I'm gonna carry a bow and man, ave darn if I didn't get out of my truck and walk sixty yards and I see a nice probably three and a half year old eight point And I'd been training for shooting a mountain goat, and so I mean I was shooting long distance. I mean I you know, on the range. I mean I could dial that bow to eighty yards and shoot good. This deer was at sixty and he was standing there broadside, not a twig between us. I had time to dial my my sight in, take my time, and I was kind of waiting for him to run off because I really didn't want to shoot at it. 00:44:06 Speaker 4: What podcast listeners are missing is Clay loosening up his shoulders and. 00:44:12 Speaker 1: Kind And I was just like, come on, dude, run off. And he didn't run off, And so I just drew back and put it low because I knew he was going to duck the string shot and by the time the ear got there, he was about probably eight feet to the to the west in that area. Just went I ca cank hang, I'm sure he didn't. And uh so I did shoot at that deer. And then that afternoon, I didn't have time to hang a stand, and I just found a little pinch point and and and sat down in this pinch point and built a little little brush line of cedar bushes, and uh. 00:45:04 Speaker 3: I was. 00:45:04 Speaker 1: I didn't have a chair to sit in, and so I was kind of moving around a little bit, but I was I was hitting pretty good, and but I couldn't see beyond the bushes. It was kind of one of these deals where I had to kind of lean up, and I knew if I heard one or saw one coming, I could stay, hunker down, draw back, and do whatever I was going to do. Well this buck. I heard this buck and messed around, and I think he saw me moving a little bit in the meat a little bit. And I think it was it was that day they were rutting so hard. I think that buck saw movement and just ran straight towards it, because he literally ran straight towards me. And I'm like, holy count, who it comes? And I get my bow and get drawn, and a by the time I get drawn, he just like slams on the brakes at about five yards. I mean, he was coming to me right. There's no reason for him to come over there, and anyway, he he I didn't want to shoot him head on and he uh, that's not that's not true. I didn't draw my bow yet. I got ready and he bounced there and we just kind of stared down, and then he took two big bounces and I drew and I thought he was thirty and he was twenty four, and it just shot right over his back. That was the same day. So I was calling Bear every every deer I saw. I was just like, I just missed one. I just saw one. I just so there we go. Sorry to bring it up, but I felt like I had Yeah you did, you did? You absolutely had to. Wow. Have we been talking forty six minutes? 00:46:45 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:46:47 Speaker 1: What did y'all? What did y'all think of the what'd you think of the podcast? Caleb? Would you have heard those pod some of those podcasts before. 00:46:54 Speaker 3: I'd heard uh Gershtalker, I'd heard the Donnie Baker. I think I heard one of Warner Glenn's. Yeah, so i'd heard those, and then the rest were the first time i'd heard those kippets. 00:47:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, any of them stand out to you, Like, do you have any thoughts about Yeah? 00:47:13 Speaker 3: The Gershtalker one, you know, just really the thing that stood out to me was the dogs. So like I grew up, we were homeschooled, and we always had dogs. We raised boy and spaniels and sold them and so we had a lot of good dogs. And as a kid, like, when you're raising a lot of dogs, you're going to see some, you know, dying. So we lost some good dogs. And like, I just think about how much, you know, that hurts and doesn't feel good to lose a good dog. And then I was at work last night. My wife calls me and I could tell something was wrong, and so it was like, oh no, and she told me that our our family dog of ten years she had found last night dead. 00:47:48 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:47:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was our family dog my mom had rescued off the streets and whatever ten years ago and just a really good Great Pyrenees Anatolian dog that just was a good guard dog for the property. And uh so I'm like, oh, man, that that's makes me feel sad or whatever. And then when you listen to that and I'm thinking about this dog that's on a property that I see every day, that I pet occasionally, you know, like that hurts to lose that dog, And I'm thinking about these guys on the frontier and this dog is you know, not only their companion in this remote expanse of wilderness. You know, some nights serve by a fire and that's the only friend they may have. But they're relying on that dog to put food on the table. And then to watch four of those dogs get killed, you know, in a few seconds, like I can only imagine like the heartache, and like that's obviously why they risk their lives to you know, yeah, so then you know, and then to you know, ger Stoker to wake up the next day like seeing it's not a bad dream, it's real, like for your dogs and your friend, Like, man, it's just that's just sad. Yeah, yeah, it just like breaks your heart. 00:48:53 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that was a that was a wild story that that every time I read it or hear it, like they're I'm just it's just such a way. It's has so many complexities in it, from them bear hunting in the eighteen forties, which is cool, but them bear hunting with hounds owned by Native Americans, and then I can't remember if in that little section it said it, but there was Cherokees and choktaws in that camp and then for the bear to kill him. And you know, there's a lot of little inference points of authentification when you hear some of these old stories, because you know, some stories are like tall tales and just aren't true. But when I heard that story and I heard that Girshtalker went in to save the dog or Erskine went in to save the dogs, that is the exact response that, like every big game houndsman would have. It's just like period, which is kind of surprising, because you would think if your dogs were attacking a bear, wouldn't You wouldn't risk your life to save the dog. You just wouldn't be It was like dogs are just a tool, you know, if they die, it's not as that big of a deal. But holy cow, you're exactly right. I mean, these houndsmen view these dogs. I mean they hold them in very high esteem and they did back then. And uh, I think if that story was made up, they wouldn't have they wouldn't have done that. I mean, I'm not I'm not even suggesting that the story isn't real, but like a point of authentication, like yeah, those guys how big anything that bear was shoot. I don't know. It wouldn't have had to have been very big to kill a man and a bunch of dogs. I mean a lot of times these guys say that the the smaller bears are are the are the bad ones? 00:50:45 Speaker 4: You know, you saying that there's a I heard Michael Lewis, who's a well known author. He was given an interview and he said, the fiction in when you're writing fiction, it has to be plausible. When you're writing truth, it doesn't. 00:51:03 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:51:04 Speaker 4: And if they wouldn't have had a I was just thinking about you. You would not have thought people would give their lives for their risk their lives for their dogs. Yeah, bears grease. 00:51:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that story when I read that, I don't know when. It would have been in the early two thousands sometime. That was the first time I'd ever consciously seen the word bear Grease. Was was him talking about his dog, and I was like grease, and I went and and that's kind of what put me on the trail of rendering bear fat And uh. Anyway, as I give credit to old Gershtalker for that, I. 00:51:49 Speaker 4: Always thought the dog's name was was actually Bear Grease. 00:51:51 Speaker 1: But it was Bear's grease, Bear's grease. But that story was translated from Germany into English, so Gershdagger wrote it in German like the dude could barely speak English, but you guys might not be able to police and Sebacher, Josh, which one stood out to you? 00:52:15 Speaker 2: You know, I'm always impacted when I hear stories about Warner Glenn. Yeah, I think, you know, talking about redemption. I have great admiration for a man who makes a big mistake and learns from it. And I think I think you could tell in his voice and in the way that he communicated about assaulting the border patrol agent that he recognized that, hey, this was me letting my emotions and my feelings come unchecked and uh and having a physical response to that. And I think I think that's something that he He showed great gratitude that he didn't go to jail, you know what I mean. He recognized, like this could have gone south really really quick, and he didn't let it happen again. You know, I think I think that taught him an incredible lesson. And to be able to learn a lesson from a situation like that, you know, there's a scripture that talks about a wise man falls seven times, but it's in the getting back up that is the where the honor comes from. And I think he got back up, you know, and he learned from it, and so I think that's the one that that really stood out to me. 00:53:27 Speaker 1: And you know, the rest of that podcast, it talks about how he became this really strong diplomat dealing with people that had way different viewpoints than him. So you know, it wasn't necessarily dealing with border agents, I mean, but but but he dealing with the federal government, dealing with through his that Malpai Borderlands group, like they became like really effective, and so he had to he had to kind of like slow down. But uh yeah, yeah, if you hadn't listened to that episode, it's uh, I wish, I wish. Uh Tessa's got something treated out here. Squirrels see a squirrel? Uh yeah, No, that Warner Glenn. Really when I got to know Warner Glenn that episode, I literally drove to Douglas. Now we we drove, me and Mike Schultz drove to New Mexico and just met with him for a few hours and then left. But I would later come back and spend five days with him at his ranch and when we filmed, and that's when I really got to know Warner. I kind of wish we'd have done that episode after. I think, yeah, it would have been it, just it would have been a little better. When I heard it, I just pulling a clip out of the podcast, I recognize that, like we didn't have the rapport that we would later have together, you know. But I came home from that trip Warner and was truly impacted by the man's humility, work ethic, and the way that he made everyone feel. I don't think I've ever been around a person that did what he did. And it wasn't just what he said, it was just who he was. But he would the way he would treat the cameramen that get these guys that you know are like behind the scenes. He was just like super encouraging, NonStop. And I came home and and really was impacted by Warner. Glenn. Yeah, an incredible work ethic. One time he was waking up, we had a big film crew, and so he was saddling like seven mules and then trailering them and we were trailering them like two hours to where we were line hunting, and we were trying to be where we were line hunting by daylight. So he was waking up at like three am to saddle mules. Wow. And one day he I said, hey, I'll help you saddle the mules. And he said okay. He said, be out here in the kitchen, and I promise you missed it. He said, three fifteen. Mister Warner, if you're listening to this, you know that I love you. He said, be out here at three fifteen. Well, so I wake up about three and get dressed, and I keep hearing him out in the out in the out in the kitchen, and he's like out there early and I step out there at three fifteen and he's like he didn't say anything, but I could tell I was late, right, And I was like three fifteen. I don't remember the exact but I remember him being like, you're late, young man, and I was like, I didn't defend myself, but I was like, I'm a pretty sure he's that three fifteen, not three, but he was. He was very nice to me, but I could tell I let him down. So, mister Warner, I have a feeling Morner Glenn's not gonna listen to this episode. Yeah, I think not probably so bear. Which one stood that to you? I think definitely the gersh Talker one too, really, yeah, because I would have grown up like hearing that story. Yeah, whenever I was a little kid, You're like reading that book to me. But there were a few interesting points. The first one was that he said, like the wolves came around and started howling yep, which like we don't have wolves here anymore. I guess that would have been like red wolves though, yeah, I think I made a mistake. I think I said gray wolves. But there wouldn't have been like a gray wolf or a timber wolf. It would have been Yeah. But like two, what was interesting about it was that like two hundred years ago or however long ago that was, it was like a totally different ward because wasn't he after like a woodland bison? Yep? And I mean he killed he was here seven years and he killed one single woodland bison. Yeah, and he and he that's why he came to Arkansas. Is he wanted to kill a bison? Well yeah, but yeah, And it's like I know, like here in that really that those stories growing up and then now like hunting in those areas or just kind of you know, in the Ozarks in general, just kind of going around. It's like it's pretty unique to think how or it's just cool to think of how different it would have been then, because like you go to like areas where they've never logged before, and the trees are like giant in the woods are just like totally different, and it's like that's how everywhere would have been. And so like now whenever I'm kind of out and about, it's like it's hard to really comprehend, but like the woods would have looked like he would have been in like a totally different but it's been a little bit like a different planet. Yeah, And so yeah, I thought that story was really cool, But then the other one was just kind of like the yeah, how wild of an experience that would have been. Like the part that really got me was, you know, Erskine's arms lifting up and his eyes wouldn't shut, and like just yeah, you can just imagine now he had to lay rocks on Erskine's eyes so that his eyes didn't glimmer in the fire and freak him out. Yeah, but yeah, it just would have been And then the dead dogs and the dead bear. I like how he described how people on the American frontier die like that all the time, and he said their memories are just yeah. Yeah, gersh Soaker was a he was a master storyteller. I mean he really was. And and and how it translated from the Germans so so powerfully into English is I mean maybe that's common, but usually I feel like you would be able to kind of tell that, you know, it wasn't quite right. But but whoever did that, I think did a good job. Because it's it is written, it is hard to read, like if you when I remember when I made that section, it was like a ended up being like eleven minutes years ago. When I made it, it took me like an hour and a half to read it because I would mess up like you would because the Senate structure was often kind of but it still sounds good to the ear. 01:00:38 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:00:39 Speaker 1: So that and then oh he's got more, Yeah, I got more. The whole story was wild, but like how tough he was like to not you know, he said he didn't make a didn't make a noise whenever they snapped his shoulder back into place, and then writing back he just said he was in like immense pain. But like, over no, we just talked about how he wasn't gonna even acknowledge it. Yeah, but yeah, overall that story was just they didn't have microplastics back then or mock estrogens in the water, That's right, I mean for real, Yeah, I mean everybody talks about how somebody sent me a picture of the other day about saying that, you know, like men used to be tough. It is like a guy carrying a deer or something, some old black and white picture. Yeah, and it's kind of it was. You know, people say that kind of stuff all the time, and but it's actually quite true. 01:01:35 Speaker 4: I like how Clay looks at me for corroboration whenever he does these things. Is true, well yeah, that there are those things now, Yeah, it is true. But it's always it always puts me on the spot because Clay is he's a good storyteller. I don't know how far Clay would have actually gone in the research world, because there's a lot of caveats to almost everything. You know, you you like, exception, exceptions to the rule, and it it drives me bonkers sometimes when we when we walk out here, I'm just like, I don't know if you could actually say it quite like that, and we'll I'll tell him what what he got wrong. And he's like, yeah, but that's not the point, and he's not lying, he's just not like well, but then there's this one instance. 01:02:18 Speaker 2: He's a storyteller. 01:02:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a I'm a researcher. 01:02:25 Speaker 2: You are a researcher. But you're not an academic. You're not an you're not a lecturer. You're a storyteller. 01:02:32 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, on the on the render. The render is just informal conversation. 01:02:37 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, No, I think it's great. I think it's great. I think it's good. He takes it. He makes things interesting and. 01:02:45 Speaker 1: Uh, talking about we're talking about basically testosterone, right, And they were tough, that's true. 01:02:53 Speaker 2: Yes, they were tough. 01:02:54 Speaker 1: They were tough. 01:02:55 Speaker 2: And and you look at those guys compared to today, to the were smaller men, you know what I mean, just thinks just on average, you know, the height of an average man was probably five seven, five eight, yeah, exactly, So you got these you got these guys, and it's just had a tremendous, tremendous athleticism, physical prowess that were today, according today today's standards would be little guys. You know that that had all these things that they did. 01:03:29 Speaker 1: You know, I so have we done everybody's misty? Which one stood up to you? Well? Is it? Mister Britt, mister Britt Davis? 01:03:38 Speaker 4: That story when he tears up in that story and you ask him about what that was like, and he's probably what eighty five. 01:03:46 Speaker 1: Years old, Well he was ninety now. 01:03:49 Speaker 4: He's ninety two, Okay, When he tells that story and he thinks back to when he was thirteen and his dad died and he had to go to work and buy the farm, and he's still and he got teary eyed. I thought that was just a human moment. And he he is. He's treated very well by his descendants. I mean they really respect him. And he has earned it. I mean he's clearly clearly earned it. But that that is truly an incredible story. And you think about the value of that land. Now, you know that's out there where it's almost impossible to buy land out there now if you grew up there, it's so expensive. And him being a thirteen year old and bought it with a. 01:04:26 Speaker 1: Grew a crop of tobacco. I'm thinking about growing a crop of tobacco. 01:04:29 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I knew. I actually thought, I hope neither of our boys listen to this today because they might be coming in with a proposal. 01:04:36 Speaker 1: For So I tried to find a way to tell this story in the vo about mister Brett, but I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't figure out how to do It was just too a little too clunky of a story. But the first time I stayed with Roy Clark is his son in law, so mister Brett, mister Brett stays with Roy a lot at their house. He kind of has a room there. And the first time I stayed and hunted with Roy Clark in East Tennessee, went to his house late in the evening and Roy was like, well, you can stay down here. They had to bed kind of in the basement, and I went down there and he said, my father in law's down there, kind of off in a little side room, and he said, so just so you know, there's like somebody else down here, you know. And so anyway, I didn't think much about it and just went to leap in the next day I met mister Britt and uh, and he you know, he he would he would sit over there and not speak. Yeah, like you know, you kind of got to talk to him to get him to talk. But he's very attentive, very together. He knows what's going on. Anyway, I introduced myself to him. I said, mister Britt, my name is Clay and uh and he said uh. He said, I was afraid you're gonna rob me last night and I was like, no, no, I wasn't. I wasn't. I can't remember the way, just the way he said it. But basically, you know, it's like I'm coming into his house. He doesn't know who I am. It's the middle of the night. He knew I was coming, but he was just like all night he was just like it was anyway, mister Britt. A little clunky, little stories, a little clunky. 01:06:24 Speaker 4: Did you tell your favorite one? I did, just making sure. 01:06:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I don't know that I had a favorite one. The those when when we came up with those, we had this idea to do like a time machine podcast, and I just instinctively. 01:06:43 Speaker 2: Rattled off like five or six and. 01:06:45 Speaker 1: So that's what I so they We didn't we didn't think about it. It was just like what stood out to me, and I'll never forget when mister Britt told me about buying that land. I'll never forget when Warner Glenn told me about, you know, beating up that officer. I'll never forget when I'd known Louis Dell and Charlie in where I was from my whole life and knew their story and or knew a part of their story. And then when I finally kind of gave it the story enough attention to go to Stony and say, hey, tell me about your dad and your uncle. The first thing he did was pull out those newspaper clippings from nineteen twenty six when their uncle was killed, you know, murdered. 01:07:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, and his other uncle shot in the ear. 01:07:34 Speaker 1: Yeah. They who they grew up with their whole life, like Uncle Andy they called him, I mean, just died like I mean in recent times, I mean, you know, and who had half an ear his whole life. And then going, oh, I get it, you know, I kind of see the at least the start of kind of how this family got going the way they were. You know, I just never forget that, you know, And it's kind of like people are the way they are a lot of times for reasons that can go way back, and that again that doesn't justify it, but I think as if you understand that you have the right to overcome stuff, you know, because sometimes stuff like that's blind, like you don't know why you're. 01:08:23 Speaker 4: This way, you don't even realize you this way. 01:08:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but so it's like just awareness of your own life, your own past, the way you were raised is powerful. I think. So I'll never forget that the Gershocker thing, favorite story of all time. And I think I learned something when I made that Girshtocker podcast that was that was actually the third It was played as the fourth, but it was the third episode of bear Grease that we ever made. And I remember it being an eleven minute section of me just reading a book and I just thought, there's no way that this is going to be good. And I read it and we we put music to it and we put it in context, and it just like it just like hit and uh and and it's kind of like we learned something you know that you could you could. I mean, a good story is a good story, no matter when it's told. And uh and and that was the story that Rogan talked about on his podcast and he liked, you know, and I mean it just it just kind of gained a lot of traction. But I felt like I learned something there and that hat tip to Ger Shtocker for well being yeah, but teaching me what Bargeras was. And then Donnie Baker. I had to include Donnie Baker. Of all the episodes, of all the interviews I've ever done, I was probably most surprised by his because partly mainly because I didn't know him, had no information on him. No nobody referred me to Donnie Baker. Donnie Baker had reached out to me just probably like you did years ago. I mean, just just talking about something, you know. And I messaged him back and then he just threw out like a very short sentence about how he got in trouble with the law a few years ago and had killed this two or nine inch buck like he wasn't he was. He just said it to me and it made sense in our context, and I just immediately just said, would you be willing to tell me about that? And he was like sure, And I called him on the phone for a pretty short conversation and basically was like, well, I'm going to be in Missouri next week. How about I just come by? And I told him, and he would tell you this today. I told him, I said, Donnie, I don't know if I can use this episode, So please don't don't have your right heart set on, heart set on you know what we're going to do with this. And I also was just like, hey, you don't have to do this, like I don't want you to feel compelled, because he was a big he liked bear grease, and I felt like he was just kind of doing me a favor, which was kind of odd to me that he would be like, well, sure, i'll tell you about this like terrible thing that happened, you know. And so I was like trying to feel him out, like are you doing this just because if you're doing this for me, we're not going to do it, like I don't want to like drag up your dirty laundry just so I can have something so we can just peer in and look at somebody who did something wrong. But so I kept trying to figure out like why he would talk to me, and and so I basically just said, let's just try it and we'll just see. We'll just have a conversation. And I mean usually when I interview someone, you really you kind of you talk to him and you ask him questions and you kind of come in from this way and that way. And I remember we just put the headset on and I just said, I've got the recording. I've listened to it before. I gave like a five minute preamble of me just being like, well, where are we going to start, Donnie dud dud da da da duh. And finally he started talking, and he basically didn't stop talking for two hours. 01:12:24 Speaker 2: Wow. 01:12:25 Speaker 1: And he told me the whole story of the buck and just just just like unusual vulnerability and transparency in the way that he communicated about that. I think there's very few people that could have done what he communicated the way that he did. Because I actually thought, and Donnie will probably be listening to this. Donnie knows, Donnie knows I appreciate him. 01:12:50 Speaker 3: I thought, and I've said this to him before. I didn't know this guy. 01:12:56 Speaker 1: I thought, maybe when I get there, he's gonna to try to justify what he did. And think, well, he'll have this national platform to kind of clear his name, you know, which you could do in like nuanced ways, you know, like you could you could tell the story but kind of put some qualifiers here in there, or just the tone, like you can talk to somebody. And he was a really good at discerning intent, whether they want to or not. But you can tell someone's intent just by just just the vibe that they put out. And I was just really surprised at Donnie's transparency and his just the way he told the story and then the sequence that he told it, because he tells about this deer and then I'm like, basically was like, well, was this a big deal? And he was like, yeah, as a big deal, but let me tell you about what was really a big deal. And he starts telling me about his wife ye, And I mean, I'm just like, where is this story going? And the story ends with his wife passing away. And I couldn't have weaved that story together. It just came together just as he told it. And it was just this powerful moment of just seeing the bigger picture of someone's life in a way kind of like Louis Dell and Charlie, Like if you could get away from them and their outlawn and their brash nature at times and kind of see a little bit bigger picture, and like the people that actually knew them had in the community, they had a lot more empathy for somebody like that. But like a Donnie Baker killed two or nine inch year on public land, tried to hide it. Oh man, they they him. I mean, just mercifully, mercifully, merciless, mercilessly, you know, And I would feel justified in doing the same thing. I mean, just this week that C. J. Alexander guy, Uh did you see that? Yeah? Yeah, he was convicted. Yeah yeah, this guy to Ohio killed a world class typical Have you seen that, Josh, you've seen it? Bear, Yeah, this guy. I mean, it's not like I'm revealing something people haven't already known that this guy c. J. Alexander, pretty young guy, I don't know, probably thirty. So he killed this big buck, put it all over the internet, talked about it, went on podcasts, had it scored maybe it was it going to be a state record. I don't remember those, but it was huge. It was one of the biggest deer killed in America last year. As I'm Ohio, I think, Ohio. Yeah, Well, then we find out that he, I mean, he's been convicted of like completely killing it illegally on land he didn't have permission on and taking it to land he did, and there was this big cover up. And uh, I mean I would have no problem talking negatively about that guy. And I don't know his story. I don't know. I just and I don't think I could do a story on that guy. Yeah, Donnie Baker was just like a really rare casep that just happened all on its own. You know. I said in that episode that I kind of felt the need, like, you know, coming into the fourth year of our podcast, where people kind of begin to expect certain things from you, and it's like, I guarantee you the stories are just gonna keep getting better in twenty twenty five, and man, yeah, we've got a lineup and we've got plans and we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that. And I'm like, no, I can't guarantee anything, right, And I never I never had a guarantee on anything. I mean, these stories and and and what anything that has that that has been good that has happened through this podcast has happened on its own. I mean it's it's it's not been fueled by by me or by Josh or by anybody. It's it's uh, it's I don't know, just uh. I mean I think I think God's helping us, no doubt, but it's uh so I can't I can't guarantee anything. 01:17:45 Speaker 2: So tune in for some real crap and. 01:17:51 Speaker 4: I ain't gonna be good. We'll get good stories that come. 01:17:53 Speaker 1: Along, no, But that's what gives me confidence in the future autely is that, man, they're a great story worries out there. 01:18:00 Speaker 2: There are some great stories. 01:18:02 Speaker 1: There's no When we first started this podcast, Caleb Day, I had to make twenty six right right out, twenty six mock episodes, which would be a full year of Burgers because we do a Burgrease documentary style podcast every two weeks. And I remember like writing all these things out and being like, man, that's that's about all I got, you know, you just couldn't really think of anything. And then very quickly we saw that content was not there's no shortage of great stories. 01:18:37 Speaker 2: Yep. 01:18:38 Speaker 3: You start getting a lot of listener leads of hey, you should check this out or is it just all naturally stuff? 01:18:43 Speaker 1: That I mean a lot of everything, you know. I mean, yeah, there's been some good listener leads that we've followed, and probably hundreds that we haven't that would would be legitly good episodes. People almost every day give me and I, you know, say hey, you should do this, and I'm like, man, he's right, I bet that would be good. But but more so it's just the kind of the the natural trajectory of just stuff I'm exposed to, you know, that kind of see. I mean I would say most of them, but there's no one place that they come from, right, But no. 01:19:26 Speaker 4: So it was a good year. Good way to start with Donnie Baker, good way to end with Donnie Baker. 01:19:31 Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, yeah, M. 01:19:35 Speaker 2: I really like Donnie's just genuineness, just a genuine guy. He's just a just a guy. I appreciated how he you know, when you ask him the question like were you like hesiting, He's like, nope, I decided to kill it, like he was honest, like just I made like you could. He had that moment and he's like he made that moment where he made the decision that he was he never made that decision before, like it was an never even on the table, but when it came, he was like I made that decision, and that's when he recognizes was the downfall from that moment on. You know, if you talk to him today, I'll tell you the same thing, you know, m. 01:20:14 Speaker 1: Yep. 01:20:14 Speaker 2: Anyway, it was a great year. Great podcast, man, it's good. 01:20:17 Speaker 1: It's a good year. Caleb. You have a podcast. 01:20:21 Speaker 3: I have a little hobby cast. Yeah, it's just over bow building. And so I told myself, like, and me and my friend decided to start it. He builds bows as well, and we call it the Primitive Archery Podcast. But I figured it was a tool I could use to talk to some of these you know, kind of clothes shelled bowyers, these old timers that are phenomenal bowyers that maybe don't want to give their their secrets. When not that I'm expelling all their secrets for everywhere here, but maybe it's an olive branch that I could start a conversation with some of these guys so they don't that information is not lost. So selfishly, like, I want to have conversations with these guys. And then you know, why would I hold that, you know to myself? Why not share it as long as they're okay with that obviously, And so you know, I haven't touched it during hunting season like that's priority. But yeah, it is fun and it is a it's a great community, just like the traditional archery community. Like I'm sure like the bear grease community. It's a lot of like minded people that just I don't know if you've been to any like traditional shoots or anything like that, but it just seems like there's a lot. It just seems like there's always good people on that kind of stuff. So yeah, yeah, I enjoy it. 01:21:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, the traditional archery world is a great world. Well they got one treat again out there. Shoot, man, Caleb, I was gonna I was gonna ask you. I mean we're already it's closing time, but uh, I was gonna ask you your best firefighting story? 01:21:46 Speaker 2: Do you actually fight? 01:21:47 Speaker 1: Do you put out many fires? 01:21:48 Speaker 3: That's probably five percent of our job. Yet ninety percent, i'd say is medical calls where we respond with an ambulance and help them. And then maybe five percent is REX. And so like when you say good story, percent is REX, this is guestimations. I don't know, Like I could get in the computer do REX every day now and you know we've got I thirty five cuts through my area and then Highway nine as well. Highway nine is one of the most dangerous sections of highway in the country, and we run a lot of res a lot of I don't know the real reason, honestly, you know, like a lot of it. They four laned a lot of it, but it used to be two lane undivided, and so you'd have a lot of head on collisions and there's some curves and there's a lake out there. So I don't know if a lot of you know, partying at the lake and people driving home. I mean, there's speculations. But when you think I think of good stories like that we might tell at the coffee table in the morning, you know, a lot of them are probably not stuff you want to share. 01:22:45 Speaker 1: Maybe, like I can think of one I was. 01:22:49 Speaker 3: I was a brand new Rooky and a lot of times Ricky's they're messing with you all day and you're just you're trying to earn your spot at the coffee table and just you know, earn your spot on the team, and so you're taking out of trash and they're dumping flour and water on you all the time and stuff, and so you're always trying to earn your spot and do stuff to earn that spot. And so one day our chief walked in was like, hey, the you are called and they can't get a ring off a lady's finger. One of y'all needs to take the drimal on my office and go down there and help them. 01:23:19 Speaker 1: And so. 01:23:21 Speaker 3: My captain was like, okay, we'll go, and then he was like, does anyone use the dremmal? And none of those guys had used the drimal. Well, I use them on my bow stuff, like that's what I carved the bear Paul with. And so I was like, oh, I've used one, not realizing what we were about to do. And then we get in the er and there's doctors and nurses all around and there's just a dremal with no guard or anything, and this lady's finger is super swollen and starting to separate because what happens is your blood gets past it ring, but it can't return because your arteries are pumping that blood harder than your veins can return it. And so like she could have lost her fingers. 01:23:54 Speaker 1: So I just have someone. 01:23:56 Speaker 3: Pouring water, Yeah, the bow, you're and I got my drimal, just like hoping it doesn't grab and like shoot into this lady's finger or something, you know, and like, anyways, we got it off and saved your finger. 01:24:08 Speaker 1: How did you do it when you got right down to the last little part. 01:24:11 Speaker 3: So they took like these four steps and stuck them under to give me some space, a little bit of space, and they were pouring water out of like a flush that they would use an IV to keep it cool, to keep it from heating up. 01:24:23 Speaker 1: But you know, like I. 01:24:24 Speaker 3: Don't have I don't doctor's protection and liability and stuff like that. And I'm sure the doctor's got the bill too, like I didn't see my cut. Yeah, we joke about that, but I just thought it was funny, like you would expect a doctor to be able to save your finger. And they're like, we don't know quali fire because they have ring cutters that are kind of like can openers, and they weren't working. Whatever her ring was made out was too tough. 01:24:46 Speaker 2: Wow wow, good. 01:24:48 Speaker 1: Job, good job. So that's a PG one. Yeah yeah, yeah, oh gosh, yeah, I bet so well. Happy New Year to everybody, very happy new year, and and uh it's gonna be it's gonna be a good year. Keep the wild places, wild because that's where the Brady to be. 01:25:07 Speaker 2: M m hmmmmmm 01:25:15 Speaker 1: Mm hmm