00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on wildlife, wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. Big shout out to Onyx Hunt for their support of this podcast. I'm your host, Lake Pickle, and on this episode, we're going back to the state of Florida. We're going back to the water crisis. However, this time we're gonna hear about it from a different perspective. Okay, so allow me to explain kind of the odd setting that you're seeing me in right now. I'll start with the setting first, and then why explain why this episode's going to be a little bit different. First, the setting, I am on the Mississippi River with Clay and Josh Bilmaker right now, and we are turkey hunting. And at this camp where I'm recording this episode, we have electricity and starlink and all that stuff. However, we just lost power and the generator quit working, so I had to drive out of the river bottoms to the highest hill I could find and connect to my phone hot spot so I could conduct this interview and record this podcast. And so that's why you're seeing all this and why it just why it's a little bit different. Now moving on to why this episode is going to be different than probably a lot of other regular Backwoods University episodes. So in the last episode, we focused on the water crisis, some of the water issues happening in Florida, and we heard from Captain Mike and Captain Cody, who both work with Captains for Clean Water. What we're doing this week, and returning to that subject again, is we're going to hear about that same subject, but we're going to hear about it from a very different perspective. And I'm not going to speak for them. I'm not going to give anything else away. I want to let them speak for themselves because I believe they've earned the right to do so. And like we've said in this show before, I believe in not telling you how to think. I believe in sharing facts, and I believe in never being afraid to share every possible perspective, every possible side of the story. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. And yeah, good lie there. If you're hunting turkeys, that's what me and Clay and Josh are doing. Let's get into it. 00:02:04 Speaker 2: Lake. My name is Pat Durden. I'm a past president of the Florida Cattleman's Association. I currently serve on the Farm Bureau State Board of Directors, and I'm a seventh generation agriculturist, is what I would call it, because we haven't always just been in cattle. We have timber and I've grown produce and my granddad was a road cropper and grew shade tobacco in North Florida. So a pretty long history of being an integral part of agriculture. My dad was actually a county extension agent for thirty five years for the University of Florida at IPUs. And so I think, you know, ag is a great part of Florida, and we have a good story to tell of how agriculture has always been a part of Florida before Florida was Florida. 00:03:07 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, so so Florida Cattlemans. And I'm trying to just set the stage here, so like, what what is the Florida Cattleman's What is what who do they represent? And what is the what is their function within the state? 00:03:22 Speaker 2: All Right, So the Florida Cattleman's is a grassroots organization, uh that you join as a member. We have county affiliates. Is what I'll call them. So we have county chapters across the state. Not every single county has a chapter. Sometimes two or three counties joined together and have a chapter together. And the purpose really was, you know, just to bring our issues to Tallahassee. I think it dates back to our inception is maybe nineteen thirty six. So the founders thought it was important for us to always being involved in how the state progressed and move forward with with legislation or regulation. And we've always thought it was important to be a part of that as an organization. And collectively we meet quarterly our state boarder directors and and go over issues that may be you know, popping up around the state or things that we feel are important to be heard on and kind of you know, collectively work together to to come to you know, positive resolutions on those things. On behalf of Florida Cattleman's. 00:04:46 Speaker 1: Right and another question, And just to kind of explain what I'm doing here, Like we're eventually we'll get to like the meat of this conversation, but I'm trying to like make sure everyone fully understands the angle we're coming from here. So a lot of people are some people may think they're like man Florida cattleman's. We're talking about farmers, ranchers, row croppers, people that are you know, growing a crop or you know, raising livestock, Like how some of them may be wondering like why does that, what does that even have to do with wildlife? You know, what does that have to do with wildlife conservation? And so I kind of paint that picture for me. 00:05:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, so absolutely so. I don't really know a single farmer rancher that doesn't love to hunt and fish. And that's basically an integral part of being a Floridian. I mean, when you can hunt and fish year around in our state, and you know, ranch's encompass about nineteen percent of the private property in Florida, the state, And I guess I'll say that, you know, this is kind of a little corny thing that I've all always heard, and certainly I heard it directly from my grandfather and father. But you know, we live off the land, and we have to be stewards of the land, and it's always been important, certainly in our family to leave it better than the generation before. And that's a story that's told all across not even just Florida. But you know farmers and ranches around the nation that's just almost ingrained in their DNA that they're they're responsible for the wildlife that reside on their property, They're responsible for the water, and I guess most people don't realize that whether it's a farm or a ranch, there's I mean a pretty large portion of the property, even if it's farmed intensively, that is generally just open to wildlife, I mean, and for water recharge areas, and and just the habit tat that they thrive in. And I think every farmer and rancher I know it's it's really important to them to be good stewards. I think we all hope to make a profit every year. That's really something that you have to try and do to stay in business. But when you go to a farmer or rancher's place and what they really want to show you is is their wildlife. You know, they want to show you those things because that's really just who they are. I mean, when you know you're not going to generally make a lot of money, or you're you're kind of risking a lot for a very small return sometimes on investment. The return that I think a lot of us get is that we get to live out there on the land and see it and live it, and be a part of the wildlife and be good stewards. And you know, even if we just break even or something a year like, that's so rewarding, I mean, and I think that's just a I mean, that's just part of who we are, caring about the land and the wildlife. And you know, I've always said if we could, if we could do one thing in Florida that I would love to do that we can't is I'd love to take all twenty four million Floridians and take them on a two or three day farming ranch tour so they could just so they could see that and feel it. And I think they would really see what drives farmers and ranchers and what they're really passionate about. Certainly we're passionate about growing food and fiber for the nation and for our fellow Floridians. But you know, the real reward a lot of times is just being allowed to be out there in God's country and with the wildlife and the land and just know that you did a good job of protecting that for another year or for the next generation or whatever whatever it may be. 00:09:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, man, And I've had the privilege and just for the folks listening, uh, Pat and I talked a little bit before this recording and realized we had some mutual friends and so like a mutual friend of both yours en mind, Jim Strickland, who owns a place that is that is very dear to me. And I've actually referenced it in this podcast before and I even said it was. It was on the we did an episode on pollinators and I said something along the lines of I wish you could take people out there to Blackbeard's and walk them through those prairies and let them see the wetlands, let them see the wild turkeys, let them see all these crazy shore birds he has flying around there. Just and it just like this, just this incredible place. And like I do think sometimes when people hear the word farm or ranch, they I'm not saying. I mean, obviously the commodity the crop is is part of it, but the the wildlife side of it is is overlooked, not by the farmer, but I think by people that are on the outside looking in sometimes. And you did a really you did a fantastic job explaining that, and and it was a perfect segue as well, because you made mentioned stewarding the wildlife and the water. And the main point of us having this conversation today is so the last episode, we we talked about this water issue that's going on in Florida, and man, I don't I don't want to. I don't want to try to steer you any certain direction. I don't want to. I don't want to lead the question or anything like that. I just I want to give you the opportunity. I'm I'm a big believer in in sharing all perspectives of the story. And so from what was talked about last time and just just a gloss over, we talked about the water in Okachobee, the canals that were built to go to that go to the Saint Lucie and Clusahatchie rivers, and these discharges and all these water quality issues, and that was all discussed in last episode. I just I want to open the floor up to you and give you the chance to share your thoughts on it and your perspective from the farmer rancher, from from from that point of view. 00:11:21 Speaker 2: Okay, So I appreciate it. We were. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about this, and so what I really love for everybody to understand is the Everglades Restoration Project is the largest ecological restoration project in the world. So in the world, we're talking about something that has never been done on the scale that we're that we're talking about. So it's a pretty pretty intensive project. I think there's, uh, if you drill down into it, there's some thing like thirty federal and state agencies that are involved. If you drill a little deeper into the impact, there's like over two hundred and fifty if you get down to the municipalities and cities and counties that are involves tremendous, so tremendous. This is a herculean effort to try and restore, to restore this. But part of the project really is that gets left out a lot of times is it is for flood control, and it is for the ecological restoration, and it is also for the supply of water to the population of Florida, which obviously that includes agriculture because we all have to eat and sometimes crops have to be irrigated, and the flood control is a part of that. In this region as well, So I guess I really just want to reiterate how, like I said earlier, how important it is for farmers and ranchers to leave the land in a better place than they've had it. And this is a complicated, complicated issue, but I will since we're going to go back to that episode, I just want to lay a little bit more groundwork. One of your guests mentioned that they had come to Florida in nineteen seventy eight, and that kind of alluded to the fishing was great and all that everything was good. Then, well, a few things have happened in Florida since nineteen seventy eight. The population used to be nine million people. It is now twenty four million people. Tourism used to be around twenty million people annually. Now it's almost to one hundred and fifty million people. We have over two million less acres of farmland, and farmers have adopted precision fertilization and best management practices that have drastically reduced any negative impact that we may have on the environment and water quality. And to go back to best management practices, i'd like to say that that is a voluntary program that farmers and ranters enter into that. It's administered by the Department of Agwater Policy, so it's a pretty rigorous program. They have to follow it, it's checked up on, and all of our practices are approved through the department. So I think when we talk about all those things that have happened in that time span, just a sheer number of people in Florida that I mean, I guess if we could go back to seventy eight, we probably if we were going to realize that our population was going to far more than double and that everybody was going to want to come to Florida, that you know, we probably should have done some things differently, not just in agriculture certainly, but you know, just across the entire state. Because one part that's left out of just that sheer population is most of those people are South Florida, so Orlando south, and they're along the coast and waterways. So there's there's a lot of what I call people problems here that are a real hurdle to the restoration and water quality. I really believe that, actually I know that farmers and ranchers are actually have to be and are a part of the solution to our water issues. In Florida. As we lose more green space farmland, it's going to become exponentially harder to accomplish the goals that we want for the Everglades restoration. So agriculture is we are at the table, We are a part of the solution. We actually invest our own money in solving issues, and I think a lot of times we just get painted with this broad brush that you know, it's pretty We're pretty easy to paint sometimes simply because the likelihood of a fellow Floridian, Noah, a farmer rancher is pretty low. So you know, if you want to if you want to pick a target that uh, that to to paint as a as as a as a problem to fundraise off of or something, you know, pick the pick the group with the smallest number of people. The only problem is that we are absolutely going to be a part of the solution and we have to stay viable and engaged and we want to and we've been a part of that and conservation, most of the conservation efforts, certainly on land conservation in Florida. I mean we have spent almost more political capital, if you want to call it that. In Tallahassee fighting for I mean, this is agriculture, the Florida Cattleman's or Farm Bureau, fighting for funding for conservation easement programs and where those lands will be protected in perpetuity forever. You know, catleb been in Florida since fifteen twenty one, and and we have a thousand people a day moving here. Now we're at twenty four million people. It's never been more important than it is today to protect agriculture and protect the part of the solution that we can provide to clean water. And I hate to ever I told you this earlier. It's kind of always been in our DNA to sit down and have conversations with people, whether we always agreed or not that we don't really like we don't see the benefit of having an enemy anywhere. But it really does baffle me sometimes when folks just don't understand how much agriculture we make our living off the land we have to have uh clean water. We we absolutely have no intention and never have UH done anything that would that would have been detrimental to to water quality or or wildlife. And certainly over time we have gotten extremely extremely good at doing things with utilizing less resources, precision, delivering of fertilizers to to crops is is absolutely paramount too to agriculture staying economically viable. I mean what we have going on right now, I mean with fuel prices and and most people don't realize, but fertilizer as well, with the with the conflict that's going on in Iran and and the implications of that that hits farmers directly and with with it certainly hits all of us directly with fuel prices, but with h with the commodities and things we need to grow the crops for for the nation. We are not wasteful with them. We we utilize as limited amount as possible, because every dollar that farmer or rancher spends on fertilizer is a dollar that they don't have in their pocket. It's it's not something that that uh is done in any way that would be uh, you know, wasteful. It's not. I mean, we don't just keep a pasture green like a golf course just for the heck of it, for for aesthetics. 00:20:45 Speaker 1: Uh. 00:20:45 Speaker 2: It has to make sense for us to do it. And I mean that's leads into kind of one of the problems we talked about with the sheer population of Florida. I mean there's there's there's probably a lot more fertilizer that's used in people's yards and golf courses. And they look great, but you know they're they're a part of the problem as well as just you know, our sheer numbers in Florida. 00:21:14 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about so talking about when we talked earlier, you you mentioned a little bit about you told me a little bit about your dad. Yeah, And I don't want to speak for you, but I just thought some of the things that you shared were fascinating from just what he has seen from his time farming and how it's changed until now, and how like the land ethic real the land ethic hasn't really changed, just there's been other circumstances that have changed. And I'd like to hear some of that. 00:21:49 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So you know, my dad graduated from the University of Florida in nineteen sixty with an animal science degree. Uh. You know, part of your job as an as an extension agent is to help advise farmers and ranchers on on the newest and latest UH practices that have been studied at the Land Grant University, University of Florida, trying to do the best thing for the land and the crop you're growing. Right, So, I mean the practices have drastically changed. I mean certainly there's there's stuff, you know, in his time that that we don't. We don't subscribe to anymore like that was. You know, it's just we don't, Like I said, I'll do the easy one. We don't. Nobody fertilizes like they used to. Uh it's an it's unnecessary uh two to do it that way when we have the technology to precisely put it right where we want it at at the root system, in the in the plant bed. You don't have to do that, and we don't. And that's why you've seen a lot of changes, even down where we're talking about south of the lake. You know, honestly, most people think this is a fallacy, but it's it's just absolute truth. The water leaves those farms cleaner than when they receive it. I mean, they're literally cleaning the water that is coming onto their farms and ranches, and it is leaving cleaner than they receive it. It's I mean a lot of that is part of it, just changing practices, using utilizing best management practices, the technology that we have the advantage of today. I mean, and that's why I say the farms and ranches are absolutely we have we have absolutely stepped up with the technology that's available today and and transformed the way that farming and ranching is done. And we've in doing that. We're always improving. The university is always researching. We we advocate for those funds that the legislature and make sure that they're able to do the research so we can continue to improve, so we can continue to back to be the stewards of the land that you know, like I said earlier, that's ingrained in our DNA, like we want to do those things. We expend the time and energy to learn from from the research, We expend the time and energy to advocate for the funds for the research, and and we invest in that. And uh, you know, we talked about this. You know that we all live in little bubbles. Sometimes agricultures over here in their bubble and and maybe the uh you know, the uh, the charter boat guys on the coast, or they live in their bubble of being the charter boat guy and uh and and a lot of times that's part of the problem is not not kind of crossing over and and and talking to each other and really seeing uh what goes on and and what's really in their heart and what's in their mind and what they're really what they're really about. So I uh, you know, like I said, I'm not for making an enemy of anyone, but I certainly think if you're going to speak on the topics uh of clean water and and the everyblad's restoration, that that you have to be willing to sit down with agriculture and have really relevant conversations and and not just point fingers because you know, with with a thousand people of day moving here, you know it's it's not going to get easier. We we have to work together. We have to uh see that we honestly want apparently the exact same things in a lot of ways. And it's almost like you laughed, it's actually when you're on my side, it can get maddening, but it is kind of comical at some point that that you know it. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Some of our people get really really been out of shape when they hear stuff from people. When when they're like, man, I grew up here I'm seven generations. We love hunting and fishing. That's literally, if we could just go do that twenty four to seven, we would do that, But you know, we got to pay some bills in the meantime. Yeah, you know, let me make sure. 00:26:49 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I want to I understand you, but let me make sure I can hear you correctly. What are the points you're trying to make is is basically because of the level of urban growth I'll call it, that Florida is experiencing. You're saying that the farmer, the rancher, the ad guy that has these areas of green space need to be held of value because you know, if it's not for them, that's probably going to get turned into an apartment complex or housing or something like that. Am I understanding you correctly? 00:27:23 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean for every there's I have never seen a farmer ranch that doesn't turn into a golf course, an apartment complex, a neighborhood, or a Walmart. I mean that's literally, I mean, and it is devastatingly sad as we see that happen. Another thing that I would like for the audience to really understand is, you know a lot of people in agriculture are what we call land rich and cash poor. Well what that means is it's taken generations, generations for that family to maybe have that farmer ranch paid for, probably still not paid for, probably borrowing money on it just to continue what they're doing. And and the reality is with the with the population boom in Florida, that has just I mean it is unheard of. It is it has continued for decades. This is not a recent problem. It is just continuing to be exacerbated that that when a farmer rancher chooses to stay on that land and farm it and ranch it, that they should be applauded. I mean they really should be applauded because the easier path financially would absolutely be to sell out. I mean it absolutely would be. But but that's where the big problem comes because it's in their DNA. They can't most of the time bear to do that. I mean, you know when you're the when you're the generation that that decides to do that instead of doing what your grandfather and your great grandfather did before you, which was take care of that land and keep it in the family and and have that lifestyle. Like I said, like we we we do have a great lifestyle. We get to hangout in uh the woods, in the cabbage woods, or or or in the in the swamps or wherever, and and make a living doing those things, you know. And so that is really what I think keeps a lot of people in agriculture in Florida, certainly on the ranching side, is just that heritage and and that just I mean, I can't get away from just in your in our DNA that that we are here to protect the land for the next generation and take care of the resources and make sure we leave it better than we find it. And I think if you sit down with almost any farm or rancher, that's going to be paramount to the way they make decisions and the way they think about generational transitions that happen in families, and how they just really stress about trying to make sure that they can do that, that they can pass it on to the next generation and keep that green space for awful Gridians are going to benefit from that, certainly, and it's really hard. It's really hard for somebody that doesn't that just sees it as a as a as an acre of land and a value to comprehend that sometimes sure. I mean, I think what I'd say is take your most cherished item, and it could be as simple as like my granddad gave me a pocket watch that I always thought was really cool, and there's you can't buy it from me. It's that it's those kinds of things. That's how farmers and ranchers look at the land. I mean, in a lot of ways. 00:31:16 Speaker 1: Sure do you mind? And I'm not asking you to go through all of them, because I'm sure it's it's complicated. And but like as far as like Pratt, you know, you mentioned there's some areas where you know, if the water comes through this farm, the waters and better quality than when it got there. Like are there certain practices or certain things that those farms or ranches are are putting into place to to to do something about the water water quality or they're like specific, uh specific specific programs or what are they what are they doing to aid in water quality directly? 00:31:52 Speaker 2: So you broke up on some of it lake, but uh so best management practices that that program kind of dictates a lot of things. And there's there's best management practice for CALCAF operations. They're they're specific to side operations they're specific to produce and and and basically all the commodities have their own very specific, detailed guidelines that they follow, and that's what best management practices are. Solely the purpose of them is for water quality and to ensure water quality, you know. So I mean there there's there's a ton of different things that uh that ways that happens. I mean there's uh water recharge areas on ranches that store water just naturally. There's public private partnerships on farms and ranches where they're store in water. Uh, you know, working with uh their water management district. 00:32:59 Speaker 1: Uh. 00:33:00 Speaker 2: You know, we have five districts. Obviously, UH, the one we're talking about the most and generally has the most funding because it is important that it does because that's where a lot of the population is a South Florida water management district. So farmers and ranchers work directly with them in in specific programs that that the water management district administers specifically depending on which district you're in. Uh. There's cost share programs for for changing practices, you know, like as simple as no til drills, precision fertilizer applicator equipment and machines. There's i mean, I don't know that there's a single thing to point out exactly because it's it is not looked at in a single minded way as certainly a multi prong shot approach to to trying to improve in every facet that we do and looking at every practice that we do and ensuring that that's you know, ensuring water quality as it leaves the farmer ranch. So it's it's kind of it's kind of as complicated as the Everglades restoration, having you know, two hundred and fifty government regulatory entities involved in trying to make it all come together. 00:34:33 Speaker 1: Sure, Sure, and that makes sense. I was just trying to get you know, if somebody was like wondering, like, well, what are they doing to help with with water quality? Which brings you back to like what are the original points right where you're saying, I wish you could take every Floridian out to do a farm tour, because again, when when you're saying what you're saying, I can line up with it directly because I've spent so much time on places like Jim Strickland's place, where I mean, I remember because the conversations I've had with him about Florida Cattleman's and the Florida Conservation Group, and he always he would say these statements like showing that conservation and agriculture can can coincide with one another quite easily, especially when you're when you're carrying out actions like like they do at that place. Yeah, and there's so about like, yeah. 00:35:20 Speaker 2: There's federal programs. I just hit on some of the state NRCS has a lot of a lot of programs. 00:35:27 Speaker 1: Uh. 00:35:28 Speaker 2: And and it really is kind of dependent on your region and area Florida of which ones apply where. But I mean there's, like I said, you know, there's the Water Management District has programs that that everybody is involved in depending on their district. Uh. You have the state b MPs, and then you have nr cs and and you know, it's like I said, it's a really it's really multi pronged approach to ensuring that that we are that we are providing uh not only food and fiber for the nation, but you know that we were certainly maintaining high water quality for all Floridians. 00:36:14 Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, let me ask you this, and it may like it may be going back a little bit. I just want to make sure we don't miss any details. 00:36:24 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:36:24 Speaker 1: Kind of like the crux of the last episode, the way it was framed up is that you know, Okachobee used to uh you know, used to not have this dam around it. Now it's dammed up and you have these canals and this fresh water gets dumped into these rivers and the water quality gets tanked. Uh, and it's it's it's really bad and something needs to be done about it. What is what is your take on that? Is that? Is that true? Is that is that as bad as it sounded? 00:36:57 Speaker 2: What? 00:36:57 Speaker 1: What's your take on that? 00:37:00 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, there are issues that need to be addressed, and it would be nice, like I said, if we could snap our fingers and and solve those problems. 00:37:16 Speaker 1: But we're. 00:37:18 Speaker 2: This is where I have to go back to just the sheer, herculean effort that we're talking about here with the with the Everglades restoration project and how it you know, I mean we're talking about from you know, Orlando to the Keys. This is a massive area and just the the sheer amount of water that we're talking about. And it's not like Florida. We're not a dry air in state. You know, we get a pretty good pretty good bit of rainfall every year, and so I wish I could just say that, hey, just do X y Z. But again, when you have the population we have and you have to worry about flood control and you have to also try and provide clean water for everyone, and at the same time you're you're literally trying to figure out how we're going to engineer this. I mean, I don't think people understand that that the delay in completing a lot of this stuff is due to a lot of combinations. It's it's not just the funding, which is complex in itself. I think if you look at the state of Florida, in is actually above where the Everglades Restoration Act in funding like Florida is funding we are doing this a lot of times. The funding and projects get hamstrung by bureaucracy in Washington and the funding federally. But there's also engineering challenges that complicate this. Because again, this is the largest restoration project in the world. There's not really a model to go and say, hey, they did it over here, this is how we do it. This is extremely way above my pay grade and no offense to to the fishermen. It's above theirs too. This is complicated stuff to do and figure out how we're going to do this without flooding a town and ensuring that we actually are able to do the things that we want. I mean, sometimes you know, a place is d and then all of a sudden it's it's you know, waste deep in water and they didn't want that much water. And we're not talking about we're not talking about farmland. We're talking about in uh, you know, on tribal land, and we're talking about in in the National Park of the Everglades. There's it's complicated. And the reason that I keep saying that is obviously that we all have to be at the table and you kind of got to quit throwing rocks and be a part of the solution and figure out how we're going to do this and and and see that you know, hey, and I'm just going to speak for agriculture, like, hey, you you know, there was claims that you you want more storage south of the lake. Okay, well there's some there's some agriculture that's down there trying to provide more storage below the lake. But then some of the same people that wanted storage south of the lake come out against a project and and sometimes I can only go, well, did you come out against it? Because it was uh, some ad guys that came up with it. And I mean sometimes I'm baffled at at at how we move forward if we don't all sit down and understand that we're all apart of the process that has to that that we're working towards. We all have very similar goals when it comes to certain things. We all want clean water. There is no one that doesn't want clean water. 00:41:44 Speaker 1: That is. 00:41:44 Speaker 2: I mean, anybody that gets painted that they don't want clean water is that's just they show me who they are, because I guarantee you they're not going to agree that they that they don't want clean water. There's there. I don't know why anybody in Florida. You come to Florida because we have these natural resources. We have this great fishing ecosystem that you can go from fresh water to salt water. And I mean you can pick and choose whether you want to be fishing in fresh water or salt water, or go go hunt water fowl or or or if you're a bird watcher, you know, go see go see birds or or whatever you want to do in nature. Like that is what makes Florida very unique, and I understand everybody's passion for wanting to fight to save those things. But at the same time, you know, you have to understand that agriculture is absolutely just not the problem. We are absolutely part of the solution as far as ranching goes. Like A said fifteen twenty one, we've been ranching in Florida. You know, you know there used to be at one time there was a million people in Florida and there were no problems right with all this, you know, but you know, the just our sheer population and the growth, which I want to reiterate, I'm really we are private property rights, so we kind of want to protect if you on a place and you and everything, you've got rights, You bought it, you pay taxes on it, and you have rights. But at the same time, you know, I just sometimes get baffled at the blame of the blame game is really unproductive generally and really honestly a lot of times cost and I'm gonna say cost, and I'm not even worrying about the cost to agriculture. I'm not about the cost to state and federal funds. It cost tax, We spend more tax dollars sometimes just battling over legal maneuvering to get a project going or done or started. Then the project should even cost. I mean, and you know, at some point in time, everybody's got to sit down and say these are our goals and agree that we have to move forward and that agriculture is a part of that. I mean, certainly, you know, I'll say, which I really didn't want to go this way because it's kind of like what it is. You know, you don't find human fecal matter in the water coming from a farm that's from people. You don't find drug residue from drugs that are consumed I mean, medical necessary things that are consumed by humans in the water from a farmer ranch. I mean, we have a problem with growth and how we're going to deal with that and how we're going to manage to provide flood control and water quality. But I will I will again go back to the absolute agriculture wants to be absolutely is a part of the solution to that. We can be a part of that. Public private partnerships I think are a huge way to move forward with some of this stuff. And I just really believe that some people would like to make enemies and point to some evil doer somewhere. And I hate to break it to everybody, but it's all of us. So it's for all of us to move forward and sit down and try and navigate all this to make it better for the next generation. And the reason I take that mindset is because that's the same mindset that my grandfather gave me when it comes to our piece of Florida, right, And so I really see that as the only way to really move forward and solve these problems is for us to sit down, quit pointing fingers and you know, and find real solutions that are viable. And agriculture will absolutely be a key part of that, because every time we lose another acre the farmland it is, it is a detriment to the actual goal of of what we're talking about here. 00:47:10 Speaker 1: So just to sum it up, it's like this issue, like it's a real issue, but it's very, very, very complicated. 00:47:19 Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean extremely Yeah. I think we could get some we we could get a room full of environmental engineers, uh and and everybody else in here, and I think we could we could sit down and and and talk for months and and we would still be working on because that's what's been going on. But I mean, again, like I said, clean water depends on working with farmers, not against them, and and we want to be a part of that solution. We feel like we're an integral part of that solution, and and we we actually are working on that, and we have continued to work on that, and we will continue to work that in that method to be a part of the solution. But I think it's you know, there are groups out there that literally raise money, and you have to have an enemy sometimes to raise money, and you have to point the finger at somebody, and sometimes you know, that makes it really really difficult if you have to point the finger at everybody because you know, and so they're really everybody needs to come to the conclusion that we all can be a part of the solution. But agriculture is absolutely an integral part of how this moves forward and how it works because just just of the sheer fact that we have in private ownership a tremendous number of acres that are green space that are beneficial to this and and and they have to be protected in that manner or or we won't be able to do these things. 00:49:17 Speaker 1: Right. I'll man, I'll tell you something that I it's a statement that I heard from Jim Handley, who I know, you know, he's a dear friend and and I knew Jim as a turkey hunter before I knew him anything connected to Florida cattle. 00:49:36 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:49:36 Speaker 1: And I was asking him about this subject. And I'm not gonna say it's verbatim. I'm probably gonna butcher a little bit. But what he said to me was he said, I feel like a lot of times people like to point the finger at the cowman, the you know, the cowman, the farmer, as the as the enemy, when all we've done over the years is to get better at our land practices. 00:49:58 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and certainly, mister mister Jim Hanley is a gem of a human And and I'm sure he said it no offense to you, Lake, but I'm sure he said it in a in a in a very witty and uh one liner way, because he is the master of the one liners. But absolutely, I mean and very passionate, uh, very very passionate outdoorsman. Uh just absolutely loves it. But was uh, you know, he's retired now from uh from the Cattleman's Association. But for for twenty seven years. I would call him the range Boss, and you know, and he had he had a passion for for trying to tell that story that you're you know, we're trying to do a little part of today of of that. You know that we're that ranchers are absolutely you know, we care about out the environment. We we absolutely live it and breathe it every day. And and that he is he is absolutely uh correct. And in what he said another friend we mentioned earlier that I'm just going to throw him out there as Fred fanisi another I mean, you talk about somebody that lives and breathes the outdoors, but you know, cattleman. 00:51:27 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, he's a he is a dear friend. He's a He's a he is a dear dear friend. For folks that have listened to a lot of the show. Fred's been talked about on here before. But Fred is a the same deal. I knew Fred as an outdoorsman before I knew anything of his connection to agriculture. 00:51:44 Speaker 2: Yeah. I have to say this because I always tell Fred this. When I grow up, I want to be Fred fans because that guy gets to do some awesome stuff in the outdoors for sure. Hm hmmm. 00:51:58 Speaker 1: Uh. Man, just to kind of to kind of bring it home, so to speak, with the kind of question and unless you have if I'll ask this last question and you can answer it, and then if you have anything else you want to add, feel free. I'm on no one's schedule, but I'm on no one's schedule but yours. But my question is if I were to tell you to looking ahead optimistically, you know, if I said, manuse use all the optimism you got and and look forward into the future of Florida, looking at it from a lens, from water quality, from wildlife, from green space. What would you like to see as a path forward for the state of Florida. I know that's a broad question, but I feel like it's one that needs to be. 00:52:44 Speaker 2: Out Okay, So honestly, so, you know, we've kind of been a little doom and gloom on some of the realities that we have to face in Florida. But we have a program called Rule and Family Lands Protect Act in Florida that that it's ministered through the Department of Agriculture, the Florida Department of Agriculture, And what it does is that it kind of it buys the development rights from farms and ranches, so it stays in agriculture and green space in perpetuity. So programs like that and fully funding programs like that, I mean, we're talking about, you know, billions of dollars that need to be allocated for for this, and you know, obviously water projects to do this. But I am so optimistic with the progress that has been made over the last few years with with that program. There's others. There's Florida Forever that's administered through uh uh d EP in Florida, and they are just really great programs that that I think if the public understood fully that we would never have to go to tell Ahassie again. The public would demand it for us. And things like that are what I'm optimistic about Florida staying uh the Florida that that I've grown up in as much as it can as the population continues to grow. Uh. I mean, I certainly think there's a there's certainly a raging back and forth battle uh sometimes on on development and growth and and and I think we need to be very very responsible with those things, and and and we we need to really do a good job of trying to make sure that we're we're doing that in a way that's very responsible to the to the resources and the delicate environment that we do have here in Florida. I mean, because it really is very unique place. I mean that is why I think everybody is so passionate about it, no matter what side it seems like somebody's on. You know, I'm actually okay with passion. Like they're passionate about, you know, saving the outdoors and water and wildlife. Well guess what, man, so are we We've been doing We've been doing that for seven generations in my family here. I mean, welcome to the party. Uh. You know, I just think sometimes we come from such different places that we don't we don't realize that we're we're actually should be more on the same team, and we probably get a lot more done sometimes. Uh. And you know, I think, so I'm really optimist about things like that. I guess the the the one thing you kind of have to be in agriculture as a farmer ranchers, you you have to have a uh have to have optimism. You have to say, boy, you know what, it hadn't rained yet, but I hope it's going to rain. Tomorrow. Uh, you know, and we just keep on going. And and it's really because we love what we do and and I and that's the one thing that I really wanted to convey to to your audience is just a passion. I mean, our people are so passionate about about these things. I really think there's a few other things like that. We could do payment for environmental services. There's a lot of talk of things like that, and there are some programs out there. I think there's a lot of things like that that could be beneficial to to uh, to the future of wildlife and in things in Florida. I really believe that if everybody, if we could do pull off that tour for twenty four million people, uh and take them to a farmer ranch, I think uh, I think they would be They would be amazed. They would go, Wow, this is not I didn't realize I was going to walk into a place that is a that is a paradise for wildlife. I mean, like you said, you've been uh. I don't know if you've only been to Strickland's place or not. But again, you know, every ranch across the state is you know, I mean a little bit laid out different here or there, depending on uh, their their operation. But basically, you know, you can find that same mentality and that same passion for the land and wildlife, you know, all across the state with our with our people. And I think it's important, and you know, it's just like anything. You know, when you get twenty four million people, you're going to have difference of opinions on things. But I think if everybody was to really look and say, what group out there, what group of people out there have been stewards of the land and have cared for the land and have a proven track record. You can go there and you can see the wildlife. You can see that they work to protect it, to help mother nature do what she can do. You would look at agriculture and you would say, that's the guys right there, that's the men and women right there that have the bloods wet in tears behind caring for a piece of property for generations. And if we could ever convey that, uh and they could you know, see and see the hearts of people of agriculture, they'd give a man hold on. If I care about those things, then then I need to support those people and I need to see the Uh, you know how I can help be a part of making sure that they stay economically viable and able to continue to do that. 00:59:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that that all makes sense, man, and I and I do think it adds. It adds some needed perspective to the conversation. I really do. And it did help. Like I agree, we we we did get a little bit doom and gloom fe like we we had to go there just to address some just to address some certain things. But I always like pulling it together on an eye optimistic note. If that if that's real, you know, if you weren't, you know, if you were honestly, like, man, I'm not very optimistic, but talking to you before, I feel I mean I know and feel that you are and we need you know, Uh, you got to be optimistic, you know, and I think you'll have a lot of things going for you just through the several things that you listed off already. Is there is there anything that we didn't cover that you would like to touch on? 01:00:25 Speaker 2: No, I mean I guess I would say that that hopefully you know, I conveye you know, where where farmers and ranchers in Florida what's in their heart and what they're passionate about I'm not unique in any way, shape or form. That's literally, I mean it. I feel like I don't even know how much, you know. I kind of went back and forth about the podcast what I needed to do and oh or say. And it's really because I feel the weight of all the families that are a part of agriculture in Florida, and I wanted to make sure to convey that message that they are passionate. They care about the land, they care about water, they want and have always done what they thought was the right thing for those things. And and and all I know is, hey, if you hear that story and and you're and you still want to say we're the bad guy or I'm the bad guy, will you know? I don't I don't know how to have the conversation move forward to somebody like that. I think if they if they really, if they really listen, they'll they'll actually understand that if that's something they care about, that that they need to need to sit down with us, and they need to you know, kind of try and figure out a way that we can all move forward in a positive, uh way for Florida. 01:02:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, man, this uh, this clearly means something to you, and it's clear that you're talking about a group of people that it means something too, and that and that's important. 01:02:25 Speaker 2: That's it. 01:02:26 Speaker 1: It's it's it's important for the for the for the sake of the story and the people listening. It's important that you hear that perspective. And I and I appreciate that. And I'm glad we I'm very glad we got that perspective. 01:02:39 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, oh, I forgot. We did. We did hit on that one time. This is totally out of sequence. Just popped in my head what I had told you on the phone a couple of days ago about the changes like, uh, you know there were it was an open range when my dad was was was a kid, right, and you know I told you the story about uh, you know, when he was ten years old on his on his birth tenth birth birthday, testified in federal court in a cattle rustling case because he identified the the cattle rustlers or the cattle. He didn't know who stole them, He just identified the cattle. But either way, I mean that's one generation. I mean, we've had a lot of changes in Florida, and uh in that time, span. So I mean we certainly, we certainly have have some work to do and uh and everything, but it's a lot of the a lot of negative impacts are certainly just surely because of the changes and the and the growth. I mean it's I mean it's undeniable. We can't so so we have to be look at how we're going to responsibly move forward. Like I said, UH, there's there's a lot of people that care a lot about this issue. UH and uh I think, uh there's a tremendous number of experts. Like we didn't drill down into the technical technical issues of of of all this, but there's there's certainly you know, we we have people on staff at UH at Cattleman's that uh that we rely on for those expertise in uh on the environmental side UH and and certainly set US Farm Bureau and the other AG organizations and and those people are solely because this, I mean, this is a very technical issue when you when it comes down to it, and we're we're farmers and ranchers, we're not necessarily always UH engineers, so we rely on them UH environmental engineers and UH and stuff for for for advice as well. And we you know, and we try and do the right thing. And and so I guess my my thing to anybody out there in a group, that's kind of you know, you feel like you've been in the in the fight, if you if you will for for a lot of these things, you know, maybe maybe pull back a little bit and and and think about, uh what we all care about and uh and that it could be more beneficial uh for everyone if we gain some perspective and and and uh and maybe did a little more working together and and not worry about, uh who gets the credit for it. 01:05:46 Speaker 1: I want to thank all of you for listening to Backwoods University as well as Bear Greece in this country life. It means so much to all of us over here. If you liked this episode, share with a friend this week, and stick around. 01:05:58 Speaker 2: There's a whole lot more on the