00:00:02 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Weird to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Kenyon, and this is episode number seven. Today we're gonna be talking about hunting and managing for mature white tails, and joining us is Lee and Tiffany Lakowski of the Outdoor Channels Crushed TV with Lee and Tiffany. You are not going to want to miss this, so stick around, settle in, and enjoy it. Alright, good afternoon, Wired to Hunt Nation. My cost Dan Johnson and I are very excited today for this podcast because joining us are two of the most well known figures in the white tail hunting world. Lee and Tiffany Lakowski, Welcome to the show. Guys. Hey, it's good to be here. Yeah, great to be here. Yeah. We really appreciate you guys taking the time to join us. How you guys doing this afternoon? We are doing awesome. Actually, we just I just picked that leaf from the field. He's trying to get his corner and trying to catch up on a bunch of stuff because of course we've been turning hunting yeah, I just like, you gotta run down here with the ranger because I'm not gonna make it back with the tractors. Are We just just literally walked in the door. Nice. Well, I appreciate you finding the time for sure. How many acres? How many acres do you have to plant? Lee? Well, like food plot wise, it's about four and five hundred, dependent on you know, the clover fields that you know, if you're redoing some of those are the ones that carry over. You know that you keep them for four and five years. But you know, I think all the food pots together, you know, it's probably around five hundred, but I probably have at least a hundred acres the clover so I probably am planting each year around four hundred. And then we have you know, a real crop stuff that we just started taking over to We used to just lease that output. There's probably three or four hundred there that we just started taking that back as well. So it's getting to be bigger and bigger. From the six little food plots that I had behind our house. And we first started acres to plant years ago, I was an acre. So it's grown fast, that's for sure. Jeez. I have two acres of food plots I need to manage, and I'm intimidated by just that, so I don't even know how you manage. Yeah, it's not very well drowned. We have like ten different farms in three different counties. So if it was all one spot, not so bad. But just moving equipment and just to all the logistics of it gets to be kind of a nightmare, especially when one field is wet and I just move over to the next spot and it might reign over there and then you got to keep moving around it and stuff. But you know, we get it all done somehow. Man. Yeah, I can only imagine, But I guess a bad day on the actors still better than a good day in the office, right, all right, right, all right. Well that said, we've got a lot we're hoping to talk about today, so if you guys don't mind us thinking, we can dive right into it. So, so, Lee and Tiffany, I'm sure you've heard this before, but you know, the biggest complaint that we hear about hunting TV shows and the hunting media in general is that the scenarios and circumstances shown aren't realistic for most average hunters out there, and in some cases this might be true. But with that said, I've got a hunch that there's still a lot that avid white to hunters can learn from you and your experiences, regardless of how different your circumstances might be from theirs. So that said, we wanted to frame our conversation today around this idea. You know, how would you Lee Tiffany Lakowski hunt if you weren't Lee and Tiffany the Outdoor Channel stars, if you didn't have the great Land in Iowa, the sponsored gear, the cross country trips. You know, if you have the same hand of cards dealt to you as one of our listeners, how would you go about hunting mature deer? So that's kind of the overall theme and idea of what we're hoping to explore today. But well, that said, sorry, well I did hear that a lot um And really, you know, for us, it's we were shooting good deer, you know, long before we had a TV show, And you know it's I don't I don't think we I mean, we wouldn't be doing anything different than we are right now without you know, if we weren't doing a TV show, If I'm still an engineer and I wouldn't have as many days to hunt, but you know, we'd be kind of basically doing the same thing. Um. You know, there's well, I mean, really, we bought our first farms well before we ever had a TV show, and we're doing anything professionally like this. You know, le bout his first farm down in Kansas. Yeah, it was a couple of buddies. And then after I mean I remember going down there planning all the food plots and doing all that step just center days off. And then we got our first firem in Iowa, and I said, we didn't have a TV show back in the days when we were doing that stuff. Right right now. I read your guys book a few years ago. I really enjoyed that. Um. And like you said, I know that you guys are killing mature deer. Even back before all this, I know, I think you were killing some pretty nest deer in Minnesota. Lee. Um, So it's curious, maybe kick things off, could you tell us a little bit about how specifically you were, you know, hunting those deer in Minnesota. When you're just start just first getting started. You know, it's it all comes down to work, you know, you know, there's just there's a lot of people that I want to shoot a good deer, but they don't really want to put any of the time and effort into it. And that's okay. It's just it depends on how bad you want something. It's just like there's you know, if you were born uh, you know, a good athlete, he worked super hard for twenty years at it, you could be a pro athlete. If you're really smart, you could work of years and you know, really hard, and you could be a doctor. And if you we just had a real passion for white tails and work really hard, you'll shoot a lot of good ones. It's no different than anything that you want to do in life. It depends on how bad you want it. I think a lot of people they just you know, they think that you know, there's just um, you know, like gifting an eye all which is lucky we have a good spot or whatever. And if they could, you know, hunt our farms, they could just go out and the weekends and shoot a teer two. But and that is not the case. You know, There's there's a lot of things that I'd like to have, but I'm not just willing willing to work super hard to get them, you know. But there are some things that like deer, that I've always just been super fanatical about, and there is no easy ways to do it, um you know, even like a lot of other animals, like if you want to shoot you know, a big help, you can go and pay the money and go on you know, the White Mountain and there's something you'll likely get a good giant elk. But for white tails, that doesn't really matter how much money you spend. You cannot go to any outfit you can unless you go to a hot offense. You can't come to my house and say, you know, hey, I want to come here in a weekend and shoot a one seventies. It's like, we don't do that. We don't on a hundred days a year. I mean, and we maybe might shoot a one seventy, but you might not in a year. And that's a hundred days you know of hunting, and and plus you know, hundreds and hundreds of hours of work like we're doing right now, you know, with feeders going and and all the food plots and all that kind of stuff. It's still hunting them. But at least the advantage that we have is knowing that they're there. But that's no different than when I hunted in Minnesota all summer long. I mean, the minute that the hunting season was over December thirty one, we were looking for the next year, for the next year, and it was shed unting and and things like that. And I can said, well, we've got six thousand acres to hunt here. But heck, when I was in high school in Minnesota, I had a hundred thousand acres to hunt because I just went knocked on doors. You had public places, you had you know, all the places in the world in Minnesota. It was easier back then, I gotta say, because you know, there wasn't a lot of bow hunters back thirty years ago when I first started bow hunting. I mean, you can knock on doors and they'd be why do you want to crush you in with a bow? You know, yeah, I'll go, good luck to you. You know, there was a lot of h but it was all summer long, every single night, you know, going out and and watching fields and and to finding a good deer. And it's no difference than right now. Even though we have our own property, it's your I would I mean, I'm looking for a good deer with what you can hunt for, you know, for next fall. And that's what I did in Minnesota. I just I would find the fields that had good deer in them at night, and I'd watch those deer and watch them and watch them and get cameras on them and and try to figure them out and try to try to get a shot at them. Like normally, the first week was always the best if you could, but then they kind of change their patterns. But you know, then it's you know, then it's just all the normal hunting stuff. You're waiting for the rut and hoping that you know, find where the does are at and said, honey, you find where all those does were betted, and you know where you think that you know bucks are gonna show up. And it's just you know, basic tactics. But it's a lot of it was it's time and work that you want to put into it. Um, you know, you weren't going in Minnesota and you know, just blowing the dust off your boat. You're not doing it anywhere. On October one and goes out and go take a stump in the woods and sit down and hope I shoot at one eight. You might but you're not gonna do it every year and tell you that. So it's you know, it's it's basically it's hard work and there's always you know, there's the tactics and you know, the food for us is the biggest thing. And it's no difference than it was for me when I lived in Minnesota when I didn't have anything. You know, there were farm fields and there are alfalfa fields, and there were all the ridges of acorns and and everything. You know, Um, it's kind of it's kind of all about food, and you know, and you'll hear people say that to us, it's kind of like baiting all these food bots and stuff like that's how you hunt. You hunt ducks on water, you you you you you fish with a with a bait on your line, you anything, anything that you want to hunt. It's it's normally around food. So I mean, that's that's really the biggest key to being successful, whether you own your own land or not. And just now with all the food plot things that you can do, you don't need big equipment and things. There's all the different grow and grows and clover you can plant. It's about anywhere would just say an a TV a little you know, a little disc without a lot of money and get some you know, some small fields and and things that and it makes it fun. You know, you got all summer just kind of keeps it interested in hunting. But you know, I don't know if there's any we get into specific strategies and things, but I think just that's the whole piece that people are missing. Is this that if you really want it and you work really hard at it, you'll get it. We'll look at Todd, I mean Dan's buddy Dan Todd right there that he mentioned earlier. It's like you think about Todd coming from Michigan, who's down to Iowa, was not a dime to his name. Finally starts his own business, get something going to that's successful. But I mean, you know, he kind of created a similar type situation, you know, I think I mean Todd was like said, I met, we met Todd. You've got much Todd, bring this back. And in Michigan when we worked with some lots, I mean we'd go over to his house and we shoot three D stuff. He had never shot in a good shot of good deer. But he was working out of his house, you know, doing stuff for lone wild tree stands, I think and felt them, was like, why are you living in Michigan here? You know, a deer fanatic? You know, that's where I'm at right now. Where he lived in the you know, he just didn't have access to and you didn't know, you know, I mean they were still getting deer, but not really big with us. What you just need to move to I was what I did. I just picked up some ups. And for you, with your job, you can work. You can work anywhere. So he did, you know, and then you got a little place and just kept working and working and working. You know, you have Todd. He's no different than us. You get up every day and you work at something, and you scratch and claw, and you a little bit by a little bit by a little bit, and and years later you know you've got a farm and you've got food pots on it, and you've got a wall full of you know, one fifty one, sixty and bigger deer. But it's all about how bad you wanted um. So I mean's just like anything else. I would say, I had like a solid gold toilet too, but I'm not gonna work real hard at it to get one. And you know, like you know, it's like, yeah, you might want to see a big deer. If you're not willing to work yet, you just don't want it bad enough. But if you really want one, you know, if it's really something you're passionate about, you put in the work, you'll get it. I mean, anyone can do it. Yeah, And I think also it's like you said, it's the hard work. And it's also how you prioritize things. So for some people, they might want to go bass fishing and have a nice bass boat, and they might want to do some you know, pheasant hunting in the fall or something like that too. But if you are, you know, adamant about really wanting to be able to consistently kill those mature deer, you need to prioritize that. And so like what you guys did, You prioritize that. You decided that that was what was important for you, and you did the work and you made the sacrifices to be able to do that. And I posted a video. I think to this day that we haven't even ever been on a real date. We haven't been home for a Thanksgiving or a Christmas for I don't know, I guess ever since we've even been together. But we're okay with that. You know, it's like our families have accepted that now that will never be around there at that time. And and but you know, I mean, would you like to be home with everybody at Thanksgiving? Sometimes? Well? Yeah, absolutely, But is it like one of the best days ever to hunt? Absolutely, so we're gonna be out there. Yeah, it's all choices, that's a fact. Now. I got a question kind of scheming off that previous question, and you said, you know, you guys are hunting a hundred days. You know, um as far as how much how much scouting do you guys do and how much do you rely on trail cameras? Um throughout the entire season. Let's say, are you scouting a piece of property all the way into the rut or are you laying off a piece? How much do you rely on trail cameras? Could you elaborate on that a little bit? Our cameras are Yeah, they're they're huge because most of our farms, I know how to hunt them. And even if they're even when they weren't our farm, you know, just places that we knocked on doors or all of our pans and stuff that we hunted before we bought a piece down there was all public and even the place that hunted in Iowa was just public. But the cameras is what really change the game for us, because before you had the cameras, you know, for one thirty or forty came by, you were shooting it because you just didn't know if that might be the biggest deer you're gonna see, or that's maybe the biggest deer on the farm. But when you get pictures, you know of a of a big one. You know, if you have pictures of a one seventy, it's pretty easy to pass those one thirties and one forties knowing that he's there. But you just have to have the discipline to pass those. And you know, and we didn't always start out that way. We shot you know, I saw a lot of one thirties and forties and three year olds and two year olds, but just once you once you shoot one of those, you know, if you if you if the biggest deer you've ever shot is a four corns, well then you just say, okay, I've pready shot the four corners. If I'm just gonna cut the horns up and throw them on the woodpile, and might as well just hold out and I'm gonna shoot an eight point. You know, it's a basket, a gate point. And once you do that, it's okay, on, I want something other, bigger. It's just the progressive, you know, it's just the nature of it. So once we shot a lot of three year olds and and things like that, it's like, okay, well, let's just move it to four year old. But you know, so it wasn't always that way. It's not just that it was. It's easy to pass here because when we first moved down here ten years ago, you know, we've got a few, which certainly not very many. I wasn't passing any one fifty, that's for sure, But you know, the cameras for me now and even back then, it was wasn't so much strategy, you know, like how to how to hunt a deer or where to hunted deer. It was just what's there? I figured I knew how to hunt deer, even on the public places. You know, we were there all summer and and shed season. We walked it all during shed season. You find all the scrapes and rubs and you know, pinch points and how you put your aerial maps and looking at the timber and where do you think they're moving? And then you see like all the beds and think where those were betting and where you're finding sheds. You kind of figured out a strategy how to hunt it basically January and February, but then throughout the whole season you're just taking an inventory of beer. You figure, Okay, if I get a picture of a deer on a field edge, oh, I'm sure I might, I'm gonna hunt that field edge. But you're also gonna be hunting in the timbers and the pinch points and you know, and like in the rut where all the dose were had been bedding and things. So I always figure I knew how to hunt the farms. I just need the cameras is for an inventory. And that's still the way that we do it now. Our cameras are just basically on you know, feeders and food plots all summer long, and then I'll move them, you know, since I'm the scrapes and stuff in the timber. New ones will show up in November, you know occasionally, but for the most part, I figured I know how to hunt our farms and all that need camera stores, the inventory. But that is so important, you know, just knowing what you've got, but you know which one to shooting, which one's not to And even those cameras all even yeah, we run them all all year long. Now we're using them for turkey hunting right now. And then you know, I mean already I can't I can't even believe, like it's a couple of our times. You know, we have some of the bucks that are already starting to grow antlers that believe like that's you know, Wally. I'm like, how in the world do you know that? But that would yeah, he's a kind of sleecis. I'm like, I get the rasist to you, but I can't recognize that. I mean, you know, all you along, we definitely run those cameras. So how many cameras are you running, I don't know, per property or per hundred acres or so to get a good inventory of what deer there. I mean, for us totally, we have, you know, a couple of hundred probably from there was a cemulate over the years. But if I had, you know, I mean, that's what I as many as as I think I need to a lot of places depends on if you can if you can bait or not. We can't during the hunting season, and you know, I wouldn't really be hunting over it anyway, because that's know, if you just had a feeder out, usually not the best way that to kill your biggest deer. Um. So even in Kansas where we have farm there, I don't running even feeders during the hunting season and never hunt over them, but like all summer long, I'll keep them going and have the cameras on them because that really cuts down the number of cameras you're gonna need. Because if we have a you know, canache or bean field and you wanted to get pictures of all the deer that are coming in there, you need a hundred cameras around that thing, on every trail to try to catch all the deer that were coming into it. But if you put one feeder in the corner of that bean field and saw at some point or another during the night, but every deer that feeding in that being people will make its way over to that feeder and uh, you know take a few bites, you know at the corn theater, even when there's all the food in the in the world out there, they'll always make their way over and I usually mix like our corn with a protein tell us or every sugar be crush where it's really good for us and where it just gets an extra where they just want to come over there. They'll eat in it every night. They'll take a few bites, you know, spend a few minutes there anyway. But that way, just with one camera on one feeder in that field, you know, I can cover, you know, get pictures about every single beer that's in that bean field at night, where I'd normally need a hundred of them. So it depends on if you can get a feeder in some place and you know, and if you can in fact bait that you'll really doramatically knocked down the cameras you need. And if not, you know, it just all depends on the size of the fields. Mostly you're gonna get the summertime is when you're gonna get your inventory above and beating normally, and like on bean field, you know, in the summer, most of the bucks will be in the backs of the groups right there, so a lot of times that you can spot them, you know, we'll book at them with you know, through spotting scope and binoculars and then going there in the afternoon to see, you know, what trails and what corners of the fields are coming out in. And then you might you know, you might put ten or twelve cameras out on even one field just try to get pictures of them. But then you A offered me a lot of times. Once they get pictures of all of them, then maybe that's those cameras back, just a couple of just to kind of get progressive pictures of them. But you know, once I know they're there, then they don't really need to keep keep after them, you know that just kind of yeah, I'll go check those cameras, you know, maybe once a week at least, but you know, I don't need so many cameras, so it just kind of dependent. You know, we run a lot of a lot of cameras that we have a lot of little food plots too, you know, like for each you know, I have one feer for every acres on these farms, but you know, might have those big bean fields feet are in, but I've also got you know, ten little food plots that are like an acre or two acres or something that don't have them on them, So I'll have cameras and all those because just don't know, you know where one of your big deer is going to be hanging out, because they're not always hanging out in a beam feel it could be a hang out every night in a two acre clover field. So it kind of it kind of depends, but you know, you you you just kind of look at your situation, what you've got. You know, in the summertimes have beenn't really pay to have anything in the timber. It's you're gonna want it, you know out in the fields where where the deer showing up that you know that you can pinpoint them. I'm going to change the subject here just a little bit and talk about management as in regards to your properties are concerned. Um, you know you got you have food plots, you have good cover, and I take it you've you've gone in there and made a mess of things and provided you know, thick, nasty cover for them. And and from what I've seen on the show, you're passing giants mature deer, so you have a good age structure that's allowing you to do that. What's what's the tip or or some advice you can give to a landowner who's looking to maybe resemble what you have. What's what's a good management tip to provide? Well, it's for me. And the first thing when I when I first started buying property, was always you know, you know, come from Minnesota, it was always all timber. You know where I especially when I hunted when I was a kid, is in northern Minnesota where there was no field. When I got them, I moved that I was everything that we looked at. How it's how you needed, you know, big timber and that it's went in with a dozer and doze in the food plots. But you know, the longer we've been here, the more I realized that, you know, there's many deer living the CRP fields and everything as well. So I kind of even to start with, and I look for farms there maybe a fifty fifty you know timber to fields, and a lot of those fields aren't gonna be crop fields. A lot of will be big DRP fields. And you know a lot of the CRP here was all just in browne grass that we you know, burn it and kill it and take it all out and put into a mixture of a big blue stem and uh, you know switch grass and some you know native grasses like that that are you know, some warm seats and grasses. So, um, that's the kind of a big part of it is, if you know, it kind of kinds a new property. But to get that tall grass stuff in there. Boy, the deers love laying in that. And that's where we find so many of the sheds too, because you know, in the wintertime it's still covering there, but the sun can get in there. So they lay in that in that grass more than the timber even going to get the sun on them. So and you know, the first thing, like I said, is you know, if you got if you're looking at a piece of probably don't have some already. That's about fifty fifty is about what I like to look at. And then as far as food, you know, get I get as much as I can in these places. Um, just you know, because every farm is different. But you know I always thought that, well, I you could have too much, but you really can't. I mean, we have fields that are even you know if they're and forty acres that would just put in into you into food plots. And when you first started that man is way too much and there was you know, food left over. But as the years go by, that number of deer just grow exponentially, especially in late season because now even if we have a thirty acre field stuybeans are are corn, it will never make it to March, will always be gone. And just because in tracts more and more deer, and you just figure that's what you kind of want as a hunter in your farm, and you just want to keep attracting those deer. And that's the one time late season that you can get you know, your neighbor's deer. You When it comes to your food plots, is there a strategy around where you place them or are you just looking for wherever you can get a plot in I'm curious about about what your strategy is there. Um it's kind of both. Um some of them, Like in our timber um, like the first time we have just like a big piece of timber, and so we really you know, walked it on, looked at all the aerial maps and stuff, and a big part of it is looking at the soil fields and there's you get the it's soil types on the you know those books for that even under the timber, so you know, you hate to go in and spend times, you know, with a dozer and everything and find you just have a bunch of clay under there and you can't. Yeah, we've done that, So pay to look at your soil first and see what even in the timber would has decent enough soil to plant in. But so we looked at bad a lot and then any of the like natural funnels through there. Like we have a big creek systems through a lot a lot of our farms, and that one our first farm in particular. But there's places where we had big you know, where the curves in the creek and make big banks that you know, too steep for a deer to go down, and people you know, so you knew that they were following the creek, they couldn't weren't going to cross right there. So that's where we put food pots right there. And just even because there's a big piece of timber, you know, the first piece that we had was acres of solid timber, and it was like, well, where would be how do you how do you hunt it? So much? You know, because there's oaks everywhere, there's acorns on every ridge, so how do you hunt that? So that's what we did. We found, okay, where can I get some natural kind of pinch points that they're walking the creeks and then cross anywhere except for these areas. They can't cross here because it's you know, a steep, really steep bank. So that's where we put you know, food pots. We'd leave the timber in between the creek bed and and and the food pot, and then we went into doze. Those some areas out and they're not you know, really they're not big fields in the timber, you know, just um you know, was the smallest one that's probably a half an acre, and our biggest one there maybe three or four acres in the timber. But really it wasn't that much work. You know, it was a couple of thousand dollars worth of uh, you know time for something to come up with a doz or in you know, really over times, that's probably been our best spent money that we've ever had, ever spent because it's really not that expensive and it really doesn't take all that much time in the whole scheme of things. But that's our strategy. There were just pinch points, natural funnels in the timber, so where it was gonna funnel deer down anyway, and then you have food there to stop them and you know, to get them coming in there. So that was our first strategy, was that signs natural just geographic um pinch points and then put our food pots in there. It's really funnel deer into the food pots. So where um you know, where we can get shots at them and just to see them see them in there. And then other than that, a lot of it like in our fields and our CRP graphs you got up the CPU and percent of that. In the food pots. It was basically just looking you know where it's available, put food wherever we could, and you know, of course you're gonna want them. And if you have a big CRP field, you want them in inside corners and things like that would be naturally naturally come out where it's easy to get equipment into and things like that. So you know, there's there's definitely strategy that you know where you where you want to put those fields, but you know in the big scheme and thinks a lot of our a lot of our times, just wherever we can. Yeah, that makes sense. Now, one other question kind of related, how about entry and exit to your stands um and how that relates to your food sources and different habitat improvements. Is that something you guys really think about before making any changes to the property or do you kind of adjust your entry and exit based on where you need to put the food, you know, given the different criteria you already mentioned. Yeah, I mean that's that's very important. And we have farms here that I never even had a stand in the timber for two and three years until I really felt that I knew the property and what how the deer moved inside the timber. And I'm really fanatical about that. But that's why you'll see most of our stands are on food plots. And during the rut, we'll get in the timber, you know, quite a bit, but most of the time it's on food plots. And yeah, the reason for that is we go all year long, all year long, we are in those fields. Once a week at least we're in there checking cameras and checking my feeders, just make sure that they're filled. And you've learned this from at Tippy's mom's house. We have a we put a feeder out in front of our house and uh, you know, when it's only d yards it left in right in front of her house. When we first put that out there, you get deer coming in. I get two in the morning, but if you drove, you know, if you even walk by the windows, they'd run. But now after five years of that being out there, I mean there's deer out there almost all day long. I mean you can, especially differing his mom, she can, she can drive right in about any time. The deer don't even run. And we'd let our dogs out, and you know, the deer just kind of you know, they'll move ten yards and then come right back. So they've gotten used to us being there. And and you know that from you know how many deer live in the city limits, and and they get used to people. I mean, I think you wanted to every day work on it, you could probably eventually start seeding those deer out of your hands. So you know, they're they're very adaptive. And so that's where I think we always used to talk about to keep everything totally low pressure, low impact, but I don't really feel that way anymore. I think where we have so much success on the big deer broad daylight, you know, not even up against camera lights, is that we are going almost every week. I mean my food pots, checking cameras and checking feeders and checking the fields. And a lot of times with the feeders are in those footpots, and so I'll go up and i would check them, hit the button, shake it, make sure that we've you know, there's corn in there, and and that sugar be crreshed. I'll bring bags out and put it out, and you can see on the cameras that so many times, even five minutes after I'm gone, he will be right in there checking because I'll usually run the feeder a little bit just to make sure that it's still working that kind of spin ones and and things. So really my presence there nine months out of the year to them is positive for him. It's always kind of associated with food. But then when we get to the hunting season, it's kind of the same thing. We hunted the same way we do all summer. Maybe once a week we'll go to that farm, might hit that field once, and then the next day you get another field, and the next next day another farm. And so really in a twelve month period to a deer, it never changes for us. You know, it's not like these deer just totally untouched. They have the run of the whole place for nine months long and then all of a sudden, unting season comes from Bam. Somebody's in there every day and they know something is different, but WHOA, there's people in here all of a sudden, you know. So I think that, um, the biggest strategy on stuff is it's not a lack of pressure, but it's consistent pressure throughout the year. Deer get used to that, and that's where we're hunting field edges a lot of times. And when we first came down here and we first started hunting, I mean, we were always up against camera lights, um. And then you know, like those days and the cameras where you lose like fifteen twenty minutes before our actual shooting light was over, and we were always up against it. I can't say how many deer we just couldn't shoot peop were out of camera lights. And now we got six seven year old deer out at three o'clock and afternoon, you know, out seating because there they've never been, never really been bothered in the sense that we're there once a week all the time. So and they don't associate us with danger, you know, for those nine months. So when you get to hunting season, it's just it's leader kicking again. They get a snoutfull of us every day, you know, so they're not all that concerned with us the differences. It's not like they're not gonna run when we go out in the field. But so we don't pay any attention to send control or anything all summer long. I mean we're running the feeders and our camera. Anything else is make sure they get a snoutfall of us every day. But then when again comes to hunting season, then we're just fanatics about it because so many times we'll have deer get down wind of us, and of course they'll smell you. I mean they'll do the head bob and they'll do all the whole routine. But the differences when you do everything, it's like your dog when you go peasant hunting, it's there will be present tracks all over there, pay no attention to it. And also get on one track and he will be going and they'll be going crazy, and they know when it's been it's been just right here. But the same thing that you don't need to fool them. You just need them to think that you're at two yards instead of twenty or that you were there an hour ago and not sitting there right now. And uh, and that's what we did to get away with so much, and that's why hunt the fields. But our timber is basically other outside of shed season. That is kind of awful and that everyone says you have a sanctuary. Yeah, our timbers are sanctuary. And so you know when you go in the fields, they'll run off the fields. If I go in there, like this morning when I went into her and R. Smith started to go playing corn. There's thirties here in there. But they'll run off to the edges. But they'll let's come right back out as soon as you leave. But if you start going into the timber, you know which is their safe spot? Now there you said, going to timber, and all the often to run out onto your neighbor's property. So they always have to express and I always feel like they have to have a safe spot then go to and they're not gonna go far. Now, let's come back out. So we don't really hunt the timber that much other than like the ruts. And but then it takes me. You can take us, you know what I said two and three years even to really figure out how the deer moving, where they're bed, and how we can get in and out without without you know, spooking them so much. But you know, sometimes you just have to get in there when it's the right You just have to get in and sit and hope for the best. But you know, we certainly aren't hunting a hundred days in the timbers for hunting, you know, a hundred days in a row with ninety of those days and ninety five of them will be on those fields. Because you know, that's the advantage that we have is just said that we have time on our side that you know, we'll see stuff. You know, I got friends to come down to help me put stands up and man, this is the way you gotta be. Look at the spot right here and yep. But all the day I want to shoot, I'm going to catch them e mentually in the in the food box. So why go in there and start blowing them out of there? And you know, disrupting things? And for me, the biggest thing is not that they're not going to come back, but you go in and blow them out onto your neighbors, and your neighbor shoots it or somebody just want to keep them comfortable on our farms and in the in the timber and uh, you know, shoot on the field as much as I can. But of course you know that we shoot a lot of them in the timber cube during the rut. But it takes a lot of a lot of uh, you know, work to figure out how to get in and out and how to get them past you where they're not said it right by you, you know too, so when you get out, you you spook them out of there. Ideally you when I'm coming from somebody's going to somebody's and catching them in the middle. So it takes us a while to figure that out because every farmer is different. There's no thing that you can say, hey, this is what you need to do, because every situation is different, every farmer is different. So it takes me a while to figure that out. But that's kind of our sta ategy is it's not no pressure, man. You don't have to have consistent pressure all year. If you look at like Wisconsin, you know, and they've got you know, when the opening day a rifle season is the national holiday. But you know, all those deers and there all of a sudden the first day of a season in Wisconsin hits and that pumpkin patch comes out in the two million hundreds in the field, those deer know it. I mean, day two is totally different than day one, and that's what you want to avoid. So that's where I think the consistent pressure all year long is will really work for us. So they are not spooked of us being in the field because they we have been in the field for nine months in a row here once or twice a week, and they're always associating us with food, you know, it's always a positive thing, you know, So they're not that spooked of us. So when we get the hunting season same way, just once or twice a week maybe in there, so to them, the pressure never changes. It's always the same. And that's probably the biggest you know saying that we've learned since since we started buying property and hunting our own places that you do not want no pressure on it. You want consistent year round pressure. That's that's really interesting. It's definitely a different idea, but I can see how it works given you know your circumstances. That makes you know, all the sense in the world is that is that conditioning um But I'm curious if we flip the script a little bit and look at kind of hypothetical because I'm curious about what your kind of process and mindset is. You mentioned this a little bit about learning new farms. UM. So let's say hypothetically, you know, tomorrow you have no hunting land anymore that you own. They take it all away from you, and now you have let's say a random eighty acre piece of private ground, UM that you just have permission to hunt. You can't do any management. UM maybe egg and timber. Like you said, I'm curious, you know, what would your mindset be and your process for for figuring out how to hunt that this coming fall. Well, the first thing would be aerials, you know, you just go to the area of photos and and look and math I've always had before before we bought any farms that have the aerials, and then that have a you know, transparency overlay with um. You know, it's all the structures on it, so you can see where the hills and and where it was steep and where it wasn't and and all that, so you can kind of put together the structure of of the timber, you know as well. So that would always help as far as like where your pinpoints and it ain't are, but you always you know, anytime we've done a lot, I mean we'd go just knock on doors places that we'd hunt in Iowa. Um, you know we'd have a farm set up down here. Well, I mean this is way back when I was in high school. You know, we'd come down here and go to a public place and the deer when we're moving, you wouldn't see anything. You just go set knocking on doors. You get a farm, you just go to you know, Google Earth and look at the mass and you just started from scratch. So you always just start from the from the outside and go in look at the field and you go look at them in the evenings or never in deer or coming out, and always inside corner of the field or something like, let's start there, you know, even if when we're even it's during hunting seasons, just pomped up a stand in the field that you know on the inside corners or places that just look likely you know, that are away from the roads and where from where people can see them. If it's you know, if there's a road along the edge, get back in the back corner where you know, you can't see from the road whatever, and start there, and then we would just watch, dear and see, okay, where are they coming out? Okay, say and this is just dear. It doesn't have to even be bucking in the doughs, you know, take it. Where are they coming out? Okay, let's move stands over those trails and then and then you'd then you start working your way in. You know, if you weren't seeing in the bigger bucks and me think, well, maybe they're just not getting there until dark, then you might just go fixt d yards down those trails and you know, but you you map that up with your toples though, and see, okay, is there any structure there that looks like it might be funneling them around something or you know, something that would give you a hint, uhs which way they're coming from. And if there's not, then we would just move in a hundred yards and see what see where we happened that what we saw, and we just that's the way that we always work. It would just from the outside and going in and just learning as you went. And I said, somebody took everything that we have a way right now and you only had eight to hunt. That's the way I would do it. Um. You know, you just look at areas and try to and figure that out. But if it happened today, it would be a lot different because that be getting cameras out and I would I would go in there and I'd walk the timber. Right now, even though it's leased up and and everything you can do, you cant they were looking for my shoes right now? Yeah, you can. You know, you can still learn a lot right now and see where rugs are and trails are and all that kind of stuff, you know, um, because like I said, our deer we've gotten pretty conditioned to be not so afraid of us. And you know now that we've had a lot of these farms for ten years. You know, even our oldest bucks grew up fonds here knowing that a Le and Tiffany here all the time. They're feeding us. They're you know, they're not really associating us with danger for most of the year. So those you know, we've got bigger deer. Um, our oldest deer will be out so many times in broad daylight, but on a you know, on a brand new piece, you can't count on that because you haven't really conditioned them all year long. So if you live nearby, you'd be way better. I'm going in once a week with a bucket of corner or something, putting a bucket of corner so they get the year sent and and hey, it's always associated with something positive. I put a camera right there. And if you could, you know, just do the whole summer, get them conditions to you being there, and you're associated with food and things that so when you start coming into hunting once a week, they're not bam, turning nocturnal because somebody's coming in there. But if you couldn't do that, but then you know, you just you just have to do it. You just have to be there. You just get lucky enough to be there in the day that he's on his feet, you know, in daylight and uh, you know those things. Every farm again is different, but you'd look at the topos and the aerials and figure out if there's any internal funnels and you know, because you might catch them in the timber in daylight more than on the field edges. And you know, we are almost always did back we you know, when a hundred Minnesota for sure, but even on those lots of you knock on doors during the season even and somebody lets you hunt. So we'd start on the fields and work our way in, you know, on those trails that were the heaviest used. Just start moving in on. I mean, once you got into seventy five yards and hunted there, and see what toys here are coming from? You know? All right, when it comes from that way, I can move in a little bit farther, you know, and U you know, then those are places that you sat all day. Once you moved in a couple of hundred yards on him. I got a question regarding passing deer, all right, So in two thousand ten, I passed a hundred fifty pointer. The next year I passed, Uh, let's see a hundred and eight pointer, and I about lost my mind. I called myself stupid and and all these things, because it is very hard. Now you're taking you guys are taking the game to a whole new level because you can, Um, how hard is it for you guys to pass a Boone and Crockett caliber deer at maybe a four year old, knowing that he has the potential to make that bigger jump next year. UM, I would say it seems to be me who half the time does passed some of those giants. I mean, we've had some one year old year olds that you know, hitless because Lee always says, you know, those are one in a million deer. To get those through to be four or five and six years old, that's I mean, they could be just a new record, I mean, and and not that we care about a record, but I mean it's gotten where Lee's like enjoys actually seeing them grow and to see like what they can actually do, more so than obviously shooting him. But I mean obviously we like to shoot him, but it's like he just always want to see what they can do. So I would say, like, it's it's actually gotten where it's not very hard for me to pass some of those younger deer that are high scoring because I would much rather shoot a one forty six year old eight point any day of the week than a one seventy three and a half year old because it's like when you walk up to that buck and it's got the big head, you know, doing body, it just you know, it's just you know, it's a mature deer. Is like nothing that beats that. And I have had that feeling where I've shot a deer that I think was big. You know, sometimes when they come running through the woods, they can catch you a little bit, especially for me more suddenly, but and I walk up to it and I'm like, you know what, I get the little skinny neck. They might have a big rock, but they obviously look a lot bigger because they're they're young. But I've gotten where it doesn't bother me a bit to actually pass those high scoring deer when they're young. You know, it's not so much about the score as it is about the age, you know, because we've passed the deer they're probably in the one nineties that we're young deer, and you're like, those are one in a million. And unfortunately we've lost all those big deer like that to neighbors because um, and you can't blame them, you know, it's a still deer. But they're three year olds and they're kind of the dumbest deer in the farms, you know, because they're they're still getting pushed around by the older ones. They want to be prime breeders, but they're not. There's enough old deer on top of them. So there on therese are the ones that you rattle in you grunt, they come running in. You know you're not doing that. Six seven year old bucks aren't coming running in there. You're rattling or do your grunt called like a two and three year old is. So you know, we made that mistake. When we first moved here, we were like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna manage, I'm gona plant food pots, and I'm gonna, you know, give in. And I felt, you know, okayy have we passed in a hundred thirty deer, but they could have been you know, four in five or six year old eight points and you thought you're doing the right thing. And the first one sixteer and seventies that came in, we whacked them, and you know, inevitably most of those were three year olds. And by the third year we had our farm, every ridge was was run by an old, crappy eight point and they run off every other good genetic deer we had, you know, the young ones. And they're like, well that is terrible management, you know, passing the poor genetic deer and shooting our good, young, great genetic deer. So, like I said, it's all is a learning experience, and you have to shoot some of those younger deer in those one fifties and forties and and things can get that out of your systems. Okay, I'm ready to move on. I've already done that. So now we kind of do it strictly by age. Some of our deer that are my top deer on the hit list that are like six and seven that just keep getting passes. They're not high scoring beer per se. Like we have a deer with Starbucks, so you've got two huge brow tigns. He doesn't have a whole bunch else going on. He was just an eight point but just he just put a little fours this year. But you know, he may be high fifties to sixties maybe, but he's like number one on our hit list, and because he's gonna be six, and we have a lot of history with him and you've watched them growth since he was two years old. But you know, he'll be on our hitless way ahead of We have some good young I'm not trying to particularly good twelve point that's down there. That the three last year that was probably in the seventies, so you know, you wouldn't even think twice about passing him. He's like, no, I mean he's got great to next. We need to let him get to five no matter what. And you know, the deer that are five and six already, they might be number one on our hitlists, and even so not near the highest scoring deer. But you know, we've just gotten the point where it's like we want to see all our good genetic deer reached the potential, especially those you know there's one nine year olds. I mean, some of those deer that were killed by neighbors, they could have literally been worldwide deer. I mean they are one in a million. They could have been that two and two sixties and maybe even high. They had all the potential for. You don't know how where they would have went with it, but I surely would have liked to have found out. But you know that just doesn't always happen, but that it's it's nice to get. It would be really nice to get one of those big ones through to you know, five or six, because normally even to give them to four, then they're not so easy for the neighbors to kill because they just don't show themselves as much and they don't fall for they're rattling and and running so much that you know they've got those. They don't have to chase them. They don't. They're not running around like you know, like the two and three year olds are, so we can get them through the four that we normally can can hold hold them on the farms. But you know, it's not so hard to pass on the scoring high scoring deer um if they're young. You know that we don't if it's a you know, if it's a five year old, dear, I don't care what if scores, we're not passing it generally, so you know, and it is hard because you'll see a lot of those young gear because those are the ones that are on their feet three and four's, you know, especially three, but that's you know a lot of people a man, how did you pass that? Dear? Is a hundred and seventy inchineer or sometimes even bigger than they like three. That makes it easy for us. But you know that, you know, a lot of times you lose those two neighbors, but a lot of times you don't. And so those are the ones that you just want to keep. You want to get them, you know, breathing, and you you know if you get them through the five, you reach their maximum potential. Plus they've been breeding those for the last you know, two and three years. That you just keep those genetics going. Yeah, knocking them out at three. Your neighbors ever send you thank you cards or like ply your driveways to say thanks for doing it? Didn't helps, So you know a lot of it, you know, you kind about neighbors. But you know a lot of the neighbors had never even seen one thirties or forties, even so they lived in Iowa, you know, because they just you know, they're not super serious. They just, you know, like most people, they just yeah, I enjoy hunting them and go and cheat one. So you know, they've never really seen that many big deer, you know on thirties and forties, and they you know, I thought we were the jerk because you know, that was the place they used to hunt and they used to get thirty guys and drive it and define how they can't do it anymore. But see now every year all will never shoot any of our three year old or four year old, and so you've got a lot of those you know, older deer on top of them. When the three year old hit four and they're ready to be prime breeders, and they have enough. You're on top of them. They're gonna push out onto the neighbors. And now our neighbors just all of a sudden shooting these one seventies in one sixties and one eighties and things like they've never had seen before. And they're I mean, some of these old timers have hunted here for fifty years and never seen dear like that, and now they're kind of seeing it there, you know, when they go shoot one seventy or one eighties type deer that they had never shot before. You know, they're pumped about it, you know, because they're excited about it. Now they kind of get on board and they're kind of seeing It's like, man, we never saw a deer like this until we moved in, and now you know, we're pushing off. You know a good number of four year olds the year under the neighbors. So they're kind of getting on board because it's just like I said, once they once they shoot one of those big ones and it's like, well, I don't now a one thirties doesn't seem so you know, it doesn't seem so great to me anymore because we're seeing a lot more big ones, so then they kind of get on board. So I think a lot of them kind of realized that, hey, the management does work, and they you know, they saw it first hand, and so now they kind of get on board too. So it helps. You know, we have some good neighbors and are mostly good neighbor a couple of bad ones, but you know, most of them in general are excited about you know, once you talk to them, and then once the deer that they're seeing, and you know, they get on board, and it kind of helps the whole area. You know, get those deer, you know, to a whole another egg structure on them. Oh yeah, okay, Well enough of like the strategy type of stuff. I have a question. Um, let's see here, I'm looking at my little list. We have like seven questions we want to ask you guys, And obviously time constraints aren't going to allow this unless are you guys free to about midnight tonight? Absolutely not a chance of rain tomorrow, otherwise they would okay, all right, well I'll we'll knock some of these out real quick, okay, because you've made what most people consider a hobby. Um, your guys, job. How do you keep passion for deer hunting as that season progresses, as you're dealing with the business workings of um the crush and all that other you know, all the other business that goes on. You know, that's I don't think it's anything that you have to try to do. Like for me, people ask me all the time, so I don't ever get sick of it, and it's like, no, I am. Just It's funny because like Tiffany's cousin Brian came down turkey hunting and I didn't have a tag for that season. I didn't have one until a third and fourth season, and he came down second season and I was so excited to go out with him, con sleep every day I couldn't. And finally it was like three in the morning just to get up and go work. Has got on the computer and uh did some some work stuff and I left at four in the morning. So I will put a blind up bow hunt. Where was gonna pop up when we go out there? So I wasn't get there really early, and I'll get to blind up and decloys out and everything. Then I'll have to go back and sit in the car trying to truck and wait for him to get there to meet me, and then I already have it all set up, and it's just like, I'm so pumped, I'm so excited about I'm kind of I feel like a twelve year old, you know, I feel the way I did when I was twelve years old still today. Um So, I think that's just something that it's not hard for me to do it. All. We had a hundred days, and you're always exhausted, and you're tired because you're up late. You got friends that come and they stay uptill midnight or one in the morning. You get you know, some musicians come and it'll stay up to three in the morning playing guitars and get up at four and go and so exhausted. You know, after three days, you know they can't even function anymore. But they go home. But we keep going, right, Yeah, I mean I was like, not that we have to. I mean, basically my own boss. I can take off all the days I want to, But I never have never, never have a tiffany maybe a couple of days of years you might I'm just gonna skip the morning. I'm gonna go up. I don't get my nails done and get I'm gonna go get my hair done something and just relax for a day. But I can't. I can't think of a single day. But it's usually not ever for the whole day. It's usually just like the morning. But it kills me to think that. I'm like, Okay, I wonder what they're seeing. I know if I sat in that stand, something would have come out, you know, So it's definitely I mean, I would think, actually, I would say, the hunting part makes the rest of the business side all worthwhile, because the business side we don't really like to deal with. Sometimes that's what makes the hunting part, you know, all the better. Start hunting August sixteenth and go right through until January, you know, can it's a big game. And then we go right to the duck hunting and says hunting and anything else. If we wouldn't have to, if I would say, you know, if it got tiring to us, it didn't like it, or it's like getting old, some of that, we just wouldn't do it. We don't have to. But I still don't. I don't feel any different now than I did when I was, like I said, ten or twelve years old. I still get this is excited about it every single day. Um, I don't know. That's probably a lot of people wouldn't be. But I think that's part of what I was talking about earlier, and just so infatuated with deer, so life, everything you're gonna do. Every day I get up and think about deer. How can I improve the habits at How can I you know, make this deer bigger? How can I make their lives easier? How about all the ticks that around? Is there's something that I can do saying or get something they get the kicks off them? Is that going to be less stressed on those deer and you know, make it more comfortable for them and that you know, grow bigger racks? Huh. You know a lot of people don't, you know all summer long and get up and think about you know, going voting and not me. I think every single day about deer is what I think about when I get up. So I think that's just naturally brought me to where we're at. And this your success as a hunter. We shoot a lot of good deer, but we do so much work and I put so much time in it that most people it doesn't work. It to them, they're not that infatuated with deer. They want to shoot a good one, like I'm saying earlier, but it's not that important to them whatever, and to spend every waking minute on it. But there are people, I think there's definitely and there are white tell nuts like me out there, and I think most of those people, if you're very passionate about something, you'll be successful at it and you put that much time and effort into it. Yeah, No, I think I'm right there with really, Like my my grandpa always told me, was that if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And you know, that's what I've tried to do. That doesn't feel like work if you're actually passionate about it and really loving every second of it. So for for white tail addicts like us, it's a it's a good place to be, Definitely. I have to say. I remember my sisters telling me, you're crazy, you know, just about hunting in general, like you're never gonna do anything with your life as you ever think about is hunting. And I was like yep, And I was like, you know, I feel sorry for I'm just sorry for people that don't because I mean they don't have something, not necessarily hunting, but just if you don't have anything that you feel that passionate about in your life, they're missing out because like for me, I would say I could never be depressed. I could never be you know, anything like that, because every day it looked so forward to hunting season. That's what really makes like having farms and and if you didn't have fun just to go out and you know, plant food plots, are going out and looking at deer thanks to me, that's hunting every day. This is a real hunting. It's it's now, you know, when October comes around for us, you know, I'm sitting in the deer stan hunting. But the important part of hunting is done outside of those three months of hunting season. I was compared to a golfer early. I was like, you know, look at a golfer. They go you spend thousands of hours on putting greens and driving ranges and everything perfecting your game, and then you go one hour for every thousand hours to golf course to test what you learned. You know, to'd be a pro golfer, you don't go out and gulf every day on a golf course. You go out and you hit and hit and hit with every driver you know and every every iron, just to get all those shots perfected someplace. And then you go and you test it out on a golf of course. It's no different hunting. All the work is done between For me January fifteenth and October one, that's when all the work is done and learning and perfecting all those things. And then the three months of hunting season is the time when I go to the golf course and you just tested what did my homework payoffs? Did I practice in the right ways? If you're a golfer, did they work on the right shots? Did they cover everything? As a golfer, you go and you'd learned that you know and you know golf, and for a few weeks get out on the actual course and say did my practice payoffs? Did my score go down? But that's that's the important part. Is now where a lot of people I'm thinking about that. If you're like I was trying to, you know, get into it earlier. If you if you wake up October one and below the door the dest off your bow and say I'm gonna go out in the deer hunt today. Well, that's like me right now going to say, Okay, I'm gonna go grab my golf clubs. Then I'm gonna go out on a golf course and have golf in college, and it's like, I'm gonna be horrible at it. You just expected go out and you know sixty nine is pretty much not gonna happen. And it's kind of the same thing with deer hunting. Do you think you're just gonna get up one day and then go out and probably not gonna happen without doing the work previous to it. Yeah, so true, so true. So we are coming up here on time pretty quick. I'm pretty you get spending so much time with us. But I had one last quick question from one of our readers. This comes from Sean Groves, and just ask simply, you know what has been your single greatest learning experience so far as the hunter not be interested to hear from both of you guys on that one. Oh, I think you know you didn't think about years from techniques. I think for mine has been what we've already talked about, is that where I thought the no pressure was, I was what you wanted you read that at and it was always pounded into keeping low pressure anything else, and I think that that consistent pressure is what it's made us so much more successful. And like I talked about even earlier about that feeder, when we realize that it's like, man, why is it now that there's a hundred deer in Linda's yard And they'll be laying in their yard and you can drive in and broad daylight and they'll kind of move off a little bit, but they won't even run off the field. Um, and you know, we can let our dogs out now, and the dogs no not to chase deer, so you know they'll go and go to the bathroom, and deer still stand around the yard. We have a feeder out there, but we also have big you know, food pots around our house too. Know they're all her pets, and we can't we can't hunt around your house. But you know, we don't really want it, because we'd love coming out here looking at deer too. But you'll come here in November and they'll be hundred and sevent deer in their yard, you know, just standing around eating and doesn't pay that much density. You can you can drive in here and and uh, you know it might run away from the house a little bit, but certainly not out of sight. And now I'll go back to feeding and it's like, man, you look how almost tame they get. And like said the same thing in the suburban areas. But and when we first started hunting, everything was up against camera light. Now it's not. You kind of learned that that way. Every if I can get in at once a week at least to these feeders and my cameras and things to check those and be putting out, you know, sugar be crushed and food form the middle of the day and stuff, you know, once a week at least, that they're always associating me with food and they're not really associating me with with danger for nine months of the year, and then those three months I'm hunting, kind of do it the same way, just once a week. That always had so much success at that And I think that's probably the biggest thing that I've learned, U The biggest aha moment, basically the per saved for me is that we've gotten more and more successful, and more and more older and bigger deer in the fields during daylight and uh, And I think I pretty much attribute it to that and just being here obviously helps that I can get out at least once a week, but even if you couldn't, you know, if I had a nine to five job every weekend, if you were out on your place, if it's close enough that you can do that and the extent to go put us I bet you if you just went out every you know, every weekend and put a bucket of corn out, you know, for the nine months out of the year before hunting season, that that would make a huge difference. When hunting season came and you went in there that first day, you know, they'd be expecting you to come and put corn out, even if you couldn't bait during hunting season. You did that first time you come out, even though there's no corn there, bang that could become in like coppel kind of like bears and you go bear baiting and the deer the bear you heck, you drive your four wheeler and then here you're coming and they're all standing at the base that waiting for you. That's kind of get it the same way. Deer can be the same similar to those results that you could have. I think that's probably the biggest thing that I've learned, and just to be patient on on things that you know. It's so easy to say, gass, that's a nice bus. If I don't shoot it, my neighbor will, so you shoot it. It's like, no, you're the neighbor that everyone's talking about. If that's what you're thinking, is I got to shoot it because my neighbors. I hear that everywhere we go. Oh, you are the neighbor that you're talking about. So it's just the patients on that, you know. And it's okay if you're happy with a small bus or whatever. If your first time hunter or young hunter, you know, you just want to have some success, but once to you know, once you've shot some if you're just gonna cut the rack up and throw it on the woodpile, hey, just shoot a dough, you know, and just be enjoyed the hunt. Enjoy being out there and uh, you know, hold out for a good one. You may not be this year, may not be next years you hit if you get a good one, but you hold out long enough, you'll eventually get get the kind of deer you're looking for. Yes, okay, sorry for me, I would say, like I mean, I wasn't really hunting. I would still consider you know, even after I think I've been hunting probably twelve or thirteen years now that had half the time, I still feel like a rookie. So I mean, for me, it's everything is just like a learning experience. I mean, I feel like from where I started late when the first time I ever went out in a heart with Lee and I shot my first box the first day that I hit in the stand, I sat in the stand to like where I've come now. I mean I've I've learned so so much, but I feel like I still have so much to learn. I mean, obviously, I I'm with Lee all of the time, and There'll be times during a seminar I'm like, oh my gosh, I never thought about that that way, you know, and it's like I'll think about something that he's you know, changed his philosophy on or strategy on or and it just blows me away. I'm liked is brilliance. So I mean for me, I mean, She's my whole hunting career is a learning experience. I Mean, there's so many things that I've learned from start to finish right now, So I would still say that I'm a I'm a work in progress. Yeah, I guess you and I am probably all of us, right, there's definitely. I think that's a big part of why, at least I love hunting white To so much, is that, really you can learn something new every time you're out there. It's absolutely they're always teaches new things, that's for sure. Not me. I already know everything. Well, I guess we gotta give you a show then, Dan, I never figured out. Whenever you think you got something figured out, they'll do something totally different. But that's what makes it so fantastic. I mean, if you could figure it out and you knew exactly what they were doing, um, it wouldn't ton anymore. Yeah, that's what's so exciting about them because they're all individuals. Just like people, they're all different. They all do different things. You know, you can say Bucks reacted this way or something more. One buck might react that way, but that doesn't mean all of them do. So you know, it's you're constantly learning and and uhl and you know because then but every deer's different. Different tactics work for different deers, So you know everything that you learned, it's it's you know, it may not work for all deer, but it may work for that one that you want, so that it makes it so much fun. Just be trying stuff all new all the time and learning. Basically the best way to learns to fire out watching them every night that we we're fortunate enough to be able to watch a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, no, just be being out there with white tails and observing them. That helps so much. That's awesome. Well, I think that's a perfect place for us to wrap things up here. Um, So that said, you know, if our listeners want to catch your TV show or get more information about you guys and what you're up to, where should they go The crush dot TV and all of our information is on that. And then also, um, I noticed that I was looking at that that I wasn't paying attention to the interview, but I did look at Twitter and I got as you guys Drew on Twitter or of course on Twitter and Facebook, and he said, you know, you can find all of our latest information on the crush dot TV and all of our appearance schedules and everything that we've got going on right on our website. And then another cool thing is, um, a lot of people don't realize if you go on our website we have a live deer cam where you know, it's literally just set up and it's totally free, and it's so cool to see some of those deers. Yeah, it's I'm one of our feeders and we learn a lot from that. Even, you know, even when I'm out hunting sometimes I'll you know, obviously I'm not seeing anything when know what happens, So I'll go to that live camera's the place that said we don't hunt, and just a feature there if you can just kind of see deer how they're naturally, how they're naturally reacting. You can kind of see it's like, well, man, there's no deer at the feeder yet, so they must just not be moving early where you see those in there, and bucks are just starting to chase. The winds are really starting, you know, so you see here are there any bucks chasing those those around? So it really helps you. You can learn a lot from it. But it is neat to see right now they're just getting you know, they're only up two or three inches. But when you get into July, when these deers start coming out, you'll see there's been a hundred seventy deer on that camera and pretty regular too, so they're neat to see and there's wild deer and the deer that we we're humping out on that end of the farm, we'd say, well if we if we get to the other end on some of our food pots something, we've hunt them, but don't hunt that whole end of that farm on that So we haven't showed any of the deer that have been on it so far, but you know there's a possibility that we could. Yeah. I love that camera. I found it. I think I discovered last year at some point. I remember driving down during the rut down to southern Ohio where I was hunting, and a buddy and I had your live camera going on our cell phone the whole drive down just because we were curious to see what deer might pop up. That was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of fun. Well that said, then, you know, we'll make sure to include the links to your website and that different information on the website at our show notes and uh, then, of course I just want to thank you both so much. We really appreciate the time it took, you know, I know, time out of your busy schedule to speak with us, and it's been great. I think we all learned a lot and it's been a really interesting conversation. So thank you so much. Thank you for having I say, I tell you anytime you want to talk, we're available. And as you can tell, you know, there's not anything that Lee likes to talk about more than whitees well us too, so it's perfect. All right. Wow, I'd say that was pretty interesting, don't you think so, Dan, Yeah, it kind of gives a different perspective than what everybody else sees or thinks. I mean, obviously Ly is a fanatic when it comes to uh White Tales and how much time and energy he actually puts into it, you know, and to to defend all the TV guys out there, you know, these guys are filming hours and hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage all edited down to you know, a twenty two minute TV show. So it takes it. It takes work, and there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes, that's for sure. So that said, then we do need to wrap things up, like we said. But I believe you had a quick announcement you wanted to share with the listeners today, is that right? Yes? Um, I actually started to blog myself. And it's called nine Finger Chronicles, the nine Finger Chronicles, and it's the nine Finger Chronicles or excuse me, it's nine finger Chronicles dot com. And uh, it's pretty much just a little bit of a lighter side to the hunting. Um. You know, I'm having fun with it. It's not gonna be too serious. Uh. So you know you can visit me on Facebook. I have a Twitter. Um, I'm nine or fort worth. Nine fingers is my Twitter feed. And again that, uh, I got my website up and that's uh, nine finger Chronicles dot com. So very cool. Well, I'm excited to check it out and I'll make sure to include a link in the show notes as well, so that if any of the listeners want to check out the nine Finger Chronicles and hear about your crazy stories, and that's where to find them. Perfect excellence. Well that said, thank you so much to everyone out there listening today. We're a thrill that you've taken the time out of your day to join us, and I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're new to the show, be sure to head over itune and hit the subscribe button so you'll get updates when new shows are released, and if you're a longtime listener, we of course would love it if you could leave a rating or review on iTunes as well. We'd also like to thank our partners who helped make this show possible. Big thanks to Sick of Gear, bustionell Optics, Trophy Ridge, Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Carbon Express Arrows, Lacrosse Boots, Big and J Long Rainstractings, and the White Tail Institute of North America. Be sure to visit wird hunt dot com slash episode seven. That's the number seven to view the show notes from today's episode, and if you're new, head over to wired hunt dot com to sign up for a white Tail Fixed newsletter which will help you get updates on what's new and interesting on the blog. With all that out of the way, thanks again Weird Hunt Nation and until next time, have a great week and stay wired to Hunt.